March 25, 2022 • 37 mins
Thomas Dimitroff begins his trek across the US to interview NFL GM's in Tampa Bay with Super Bowl winning GM Jason Licht. Thomas and Jason talk about what it took to get Tom Brady to Tampa, their shared time together rising the ranks in New England, and they discuss leadership under some of the greatest legends in coaching and the front office.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is arial custom bound and I am the
founder of fair meals. Five, Oh, one, C, three, status
nonprofit that focuses on easy, healthy and affordable meal solutions
for families of all walks of life. On our website,
fair meals dot org, you can find, free of charge,
tons of tips, tricks and recipes that encompass our three
(00:21):
pillars of health, ease and affordability. To help continue to
make our programming the best it can be, please consider
donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org.
Forward slash donate. I had this feeling at one time
(00:51):
that I wanted to travel the country and I wanted
to professionally develop at the same time. After getting fired
last year and I was thinking I need be around
my people, I need to be around my contemporaries, and
I thought what better place to start than to jump
in my sprinter van, you know, pack all of my
stuff and head down to Tampa. Let's start to you know,
(01:11):
let's start out with the Super Bowl champions last year
and let's dig into that relationship. Welcome to the GM
journey with Thomas Dimitrof from that relationship is a special relationship,
my relationship with Jason Light goes all the way back
to New England patriots and even before we've spent a
(01:33):
lot of time as as competitors, not only competitors when
we are both general managers for us two of the
very hot competitors within our division, Tampa Bay and the
Atlanta Falcons. Of course, this goes all the way back
to when we were growing up as scouts in the league.
We both were highly competitive driven, very, very different personalities. Man,
we both loved football and we just had very different
(01:56):
styles and different approaches. You know, Jason was known as
one of those guys out there, as one of the
hardest working guys, rolled up his sleeves. He was football
through and through, Rural Colorado Guy and and he set
the tone in a lot of ways. But as we
were growing through this business together, we worked together, we
were competitors and you could tell there was always a
(02:16):
little bit of fun competition there. Prior to sitting in
that general manager spot, we were competing as scouts trying
to get to the general manager spot and that's where
a lot of competition comes in this league. So you're
always looking at your your competitors as they make their
move towards being general managers and it's it's a very,
very interesting part of our our personality and our relationship together.
(02:42):
We started it off when I got down to Tampa
man we spent time at burn steakhouse, one of the
best steakhouses in the world, one of the best honestly,
one of the best wine sellers worldwide. We spent a
great evening there with a few great people. We had
David Campton there as an agent. We had ab be
stucky that one of the world's Best Uh and and
(03:02):
premier master Somalia's he was there. We were with our
fiances and wives and we were talking football through and
through and interestingly enough, Jason came through the door with that,
with that Super Bowl trophy in his hand, basically saying
to me, here you go. I actually promped him, prompted
him to do that. It wasn't something that he did
on his own. We had a great time with it
(03:24):
that night. The next day we rolled cigars uh you know,
in Ebor city and we really took an opportunity to
rekindle what was a really appreciative friendship and competition when
we were younger. Now that many years later, here's the
funny thing. After all of a sudden, done in many,
many hours together during this this visit down in Tampa,
(03:46):
we realized that we were much closer to being the
same soulful people, that we really thought of each other
and we thought, wow, we're not that far apart at all.
And it and it totally rekindled a friendship, in a
relationship and a and a and a sort of an
admirable approach to to each other. And and, uh, I'll
(04:06):
never forget that. It was heartwarming, to say the least.
It ended up being a great visit in a great time.
Check it out. Here we are, Ebor city, Cigar City, Tampa.
Unbelievable feel here, unbelievable energy. But the best thing is
we're here with the Super Bowl winning super super recognized
(04:28):
in this area, G M Jason, like Tampa Bay Buccaneers, uh,
the team builder of the Super Bowl winning organization. Great
to have you here. You and I go back a long,
long way. Who would have thought we'd be sitting in
Abor City in a outdoor think tank, Um, you know, awning.
We just, interestingly enough, just got peppered by the owner
(04:51):
of this parking lot. We almost got kicked out of here,
but we're able to pull it off. So luckily, we
were able to talk it through and you were able
to pull some rank there by introducing your Elf as
a GM of the bucks. So it's finally, it's finally
nice to be recognized here. That's exactly right. You diffuse
the situation, um. So here we are. I'd love to
just have a really cool conversation with you, Um, and
(05:14):
just talk to you about life in general as a GM,
where we're going, the future of the League, a lot
of really interesting pointed questions and and I would love
to say, first of all, thanks for joining Um. I
say this, and this is by my own algorithm, you
are the best football general manager in the world right now,
(05:36):
and that's tough for you. You and I have known
each other a long time and you you have a
little bit of that humble side that that's tough to hear,
but it's a reality. Until the season starts, you hold
that that rain and that crown and I love it.
I never had an opportunity to do that. I want
to chat with you a little bit about that. How
does that feel? What are the emotions that go through
your mind a little bit during that time? But now
(05:58):
as you're walking around the city being recognized and more
than anything, how does it feel to know that you
achieved what ultimately you wanted to achieve as a GM
a lot of a lot of emotions, I would say.
The first one is it just makes me proud for
all of the staff in the entire organization working so
(06:20):
hard all of these years to get to that point.
Took some time. Took more time than I thought, you know.
As you know, this business take some patience and luckily
our owners had patience, but just an incredible staff and
also just you know, you have kids and it makes
(06:40):
me proud of for my you always want to make
your children proud and so at some point I can
say they can say, you know, they their father was
part of the Super Bowl winning team, at least one,
but it's a very big thing to me. So so,
I mean it's a great point. You know, we think
about our kids with about our family. Um, there was
(07:03):
a lot of there. You and I have had our
fair share of getting our asses kicked by fan bases
and media over the years. That's part of this sport right,
that's part of what we do. We know that going
in right as a director of college scouting or director
of personnel. We don't feel it as much. You get
into this role. It's big. There's a lot of pressure, uh,
from a lot of different areas. When you were hoisting
(07:25):
that trophy, talk to me about the emotions of that.
Did you have a little bit of looking around saying hey,
there were a lot of naysayers over the years, questioning,
like I got questions. I remember in six team we
were you know, when we won the NFC championship, there
was an unbelievable amount of motion for me to look
out there and say, all right, we accomplished a lot
more than you all gave us credit for. Where were
(07:47):
you with all that? Well, the first thing I thought
of when I was kind of spanning the field were
the players that have been here their entire career without
even making it to the playoffs. And it's been a
long it's been a it's been a drought here and
for them to have to hear me say just be
(08:09):
patient with them, just like we talked to our fan base,
just like we talked to other employees, just be patient,
we're on the brink, we're close, and for it to
actually happen, to see Lavonte David for one, just a
great player, great person to finally be able to say
that he was a super bowl champ. Mike Evans, you know,
the list goes on and on, but that was the first.
(08:31):
Then you then you think of the employees equally as important,
but the employees that have been here, you know, for
over a decade, that hadn't even sniffed the playoffs. So Um,
and then to win the Super Bowl is just the
crowning achievement. It was. So you think about that. We
grew up in the business as road scouts, we call
used to call ourselves road grunts, and we are proud
(08:52):
of it. Right where. We rose through through the operation
and eventually became GMS. You still me a recently fire GM.
It's kind of weird to say that every once in
a while because I think about it. A third teen
year run unbelievable. You don't see that. You had mentioned
before and I appreciate that. And and you've won super
bowls in New England, a super bowl in New England, right,
(09:14):
and we were personnel people there. You were a personnel
director there and you were growing and evolving. The difference
in feeling the super bowl win when you're at the
helm very you know that idea is very interesting for
me to try to get my head around again. Winning
an NFC championship is one thing as a GM and
knowing that you were the CO team builder with Bruce
(09:35):
Arians and put that together, I mean, brother, that is
a huge, huge feather in the CAP. How does that feel,
the difference from being a scout winning it or a
personnel director to being the guy? Well, it's great. Both
both were unbelievable and when you're the general manager, and
(09:55):
I'm sure for the head coach and owners, it's you've got.
You have a few more battle scars then than they
do because we take a beating we, and deservedly so,
for a lot of the things we've done, the losses,
the poor choices and decisions that you've had along the way,
but they almost immediately heal at the moment and it's
(10:18):
you forget about them and you forget about the receipts
that you can't help but keep over the years Um
and it's so that that rush of just that just
going away and then have starting fresh, starting the new
is it's that's part of what makes it so special.
Love that. I love that so let's backtrack for a
(10:38):
minute just kind of educate those that don't know our relationship.
We go back all the way to New England. We
were coming up through the ranks around the same time.
I'm exponentially older than you. Not Really, I think I'm
four years different, but we were going through the ranks
and we were in the Patriot paradigm and organization. Learned
so much from Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli about team
(10:59):
bill thing. Um, we both were very different, I mean personalities.
You know, we have different interests, we have different approaches
and yet, you know, we had a great deal of
respect for each other and I think we both knew
that both of us were aiming to be general managers
and aiming to be ultimately Super Bowl champion GMS way
(11:19):
back then. You know the ideas. Um, you go one way,
I go another way. You hit a few organizations, two
or three organizations, I continue to do my thing and
grow in this business. And, Um, the the irony of
all this is the very individual that you know helped
your dreams come true. Not Saying it's all Tom Brady,
(11:41):
but the acquisition of Tom Brady and how he helped
you guys as team builders lead this organization to a championship,
is the very person that ultimately, I say this lovingly
to Tom Because I appreciate it, ultimately cost me my
job in sixteen, meaning we lost the Super Bowl in sixteen.
Would I still be in Atlanta right now? People often
(12:02):
asked me if we would have won the Super Bowl
in sixteen and Tom Brady didn't do the miraculous things
that he does. Maybe, maybe not, but it helped your
dream come true. That is a really, really interesting thing,
Tom Brady, for you and the organization since he's come here.
What does that mean to you at this point? It was.
(12:24):
It was very gratifying that he chose Tampa when he
was a free agent. It told us that we had
been building it the right way, we had done the
right things, had the right pieces, I had hired the
right coach. All of those things were draws for him.
(12:45):
So that was a win in itself. And then getting him,
along with B A, to have a head coach in
a quarterback, which extremely important pieces of the puzzle, the
two most important pieces, two chance transformed the culture of
the building, not just the players but the coaches. Every
(13:06):
every facet of the organization changed because of those two. Um, ultimately,
let us to the well, now there's everybody had their part.
You know, we have a lot of great players, but
I think that in itself was the wake up call
that we all needed. And you know, it's it's pretty
cool that Tom Brady and I share his first Super
(13:27):
Bowl Ring and his last super bowl rate. So, Um,
it's it's been. It's been a fun ride to see
him as the second year player, when it be be
a part of that as a Scout, and then see
him win a seventh in his, you know, year in
the League. So it's an unbelievable just an unbelievable accomplishment
(13:47):
and the bond that you guys have is special, probably
second to none, less as you start processing. All Right,
I'm a big believer in you know, as GMS you
have to not sit on your hand. You have to
be aggressive. Call Them Ball Z move. Let's call him
the baller move. If you look back on your your
career as a GM and there's really one move that
(14:08):
you made that was the quintessential baller move, what would
that be? everyding would assume that would say going after
Tom Brady, and that was but I would say talking
Bruce Arians out of retirement to come to lead this organization.
(14:29):
I love that and you think about you think about
Bruce Arians, how important it was. You and I know,
and we could riff forever about relationships between general managers
and personnel departments, head coach and, you know, coaching staffs vital.
There's so much conversation to be had there. Where is
Bruce in that? What is your relationship with Bruce personally
(14:51):
and professionally? You know, is it something that you realize
to have the right head coach as your partner is
paramount to be in assessment? It's it's the ultimate factor
in having success. I believe that we worked together for
a year in Arizona. So we had we had built
a relationship based on trust there and we became very
(15:14):
good friends. Now we we get along great. He's like
a best friend uncle wrapped up in one. But we
also argue. Well, I've said this numerous times. Um, we
know when we disagree, we agree to disagree, but there's
never a divide in our building and Bruce is all
about inclusiveness in our scouting and coaching staff. He's all
(15:39):
about inclusiveness in terms of diversity. Um, he's taught this
organization a lot of lessons that hopefully continue throughout the
organization and the League. If you don't have a head
coach in this league like you have with Bruce, it
can be rocky, it can be cumbersome, it can be,
you know, the proverbial piss and up the tree. I
(16:00):
mean it's tough, it's complicated. It needs to happen. There
needs to be that mix. There needs to be a
massive amount of respect, I believe, for your craft and
you for him as not only a coach, as a
team builder, as a Co evaluator for you. I mean
it's it's vital and you. You struck gold on that one.
(16:21):
And when I was watching it from afar, I thought, really,
is Bruce Really gonna come out of retirement? He's such
a good dude. He's got a great stick, meaning he
gulfs his ass off. It's fun to watch. I don't
know about you, but I definitely couldn't hang with someone
like him. I'm trying. I love the sport, but that's
kind of trying to get there. I know we all
are right. So, okay, let's jump to another sort of
(16:41):
area here. I'M gonna ask you three questions on this
pre profession. What was the most important leadership lesson that
you had growing up? Well, GROWING UP UM rate family,
great parents. My father struggled with Addiction, alcohol addiction when
(17:07):
I was a young kid. Um. Unfortunately my father passed
away a couple of years ago, but I was about
twelve years old. He just gave it up and he
became wonderful father, my best friend, like a great mentor,
and it taught me that people deserve second chances and
(17:29):
you've got to learn from your mistakes and you've got
to be yourself. And he's uh, he's been my idol
and I still talked to him every day. He's an
amazing person and very proud of the man that he
became an father. Thanks for sharing that. Those are we
all have some semblance of our relationship, I think, in
(17:50):
this business, to our fathers, of course at different levels,
and it's wonderful to hear that. I didn't know that.
I didn't know the bond that you guys had. You
are listening to the GM journey with Thomas demitrof. We'll
be right back. As you were climbing through the ranks
within the NFL pre general manager, what was the most
(18:13):
important leadership mode or or or information that you gained.
I've been fortunate to work for some legendary head coaches,
Don Shula, Jimmy Johnson, Andy Reid, Bill Belichick of course
Bruce Arians. Take a little bit from each one, but
one that sticks with me is the leadership style that
(18:35):
Andy Reid had with he always gave credit to the
people in the organization, whether it's the trainer, the assistant coaches,
the the GM, the personnel director of the College Director,
whoever it is, and took the bullet if something went
wrong and was the first to say that was my mistake,
(18:58):
that was on me. It just made you want to
give your best for him and run through a wall
for him, and I think that brought out the best
in everybody. Well, I mean that's a great point right
the extreme ownership idea, Jocko Wilnick, whoever is out there
talking about that in public. That is a big thing.
It's easy to push it off and try to justify
(19:19):
as we're moving through the ranks, even as we're growing.
Let's move into being the general manager, as you are
the general manager and continue to grow and evolve as
a general manager. What is the biggest leadership lesson that
you've learned since actually being at the helm. I wish
I could go back two myself, the first couple of
(19:40):
years and not have the thought that I could handle
everything myself and be a task master and spend countless
hours there and micromanaging everything. As I got into it,
after a few years you learned to delegate and you
(20:01):
learn to trust the people you hire and put the
ultimate trust in them. And I joke around, but I
tell them my ultimate goal is that do nothing. You know,
this is just running on its own and of course
I'm not gonna do nothing, but it's right now, the
way we have it. I feel awesome about it. It
is kind of on autopilot. Everybody knows their job, everybody
(20:22):
has the role, and that, you know, comes from Bill,
who we've worked for so well. On autopilot is great
and you and I both know the importance of communication.
Right during this communicating, even though you've delegated very well
and you have some really adapt people around you. To
your point, you can say the partnership between the head
coach and the GM is vital, but to have the
right people around you and your respective parts of the organization.
(20:45):
Bruce on the coaching side, you on the you know,
the team building personnel side is really really important, on
the finance side, on the player engagement side. There's so
many important parts to that. I think it's I think
it's great you've shown that you can have that and grow.
Communication vital, which you know, I continue to think about that.
Where I ever made any mistakes? Not ever made any.
(21:07):
Of course I made many, just like you know about
making mistakes. We all know about it in this role.
It came that back to me in a communication way
one way or another, where things either broke down or
I took it for granted that everyone was fine and
they could move forward and I was focusing way too
much in the final years on my relationship with Dan Quinn.
(21:29):
We had a great relationship. I needed to make sure
that I did not pull away from the Middle Management Group,
the directors. You know, that was really really important to
make sure that I was communicating and I learned that.
I maybe heard learned it a little bit in a
different way, but that was important. It's difficult something I
still have to continue to work on. It's you know,
(21:50):
we won the Super Bowl, but I have many flaws.
And it's always continuing to try to get better and
I know where my flaws are and it's it can
be difficult, that it can happen. You can. I've learned
that through my father. You can work through things and
become a better person so quickly. Then go back to
(22:10):
growing up. I'm talking about youth through college, you know,
before you got into the profession. Is there anything that
you would have done differently? Would you go into a
different college? Would you have studied something different? I'm just
curious about those years. Probably not. Um, I walked on
at Nebraska. It was my dream to play Division One.
(22:34):
Actually played on the freshman team, red shirted and then
lettered my third year as a backup offensive lineman. I
was backing up some players that played in the League
for a long time, once a hall of Famer and
will shields. Um was not gonna see the field. They
were younger than me or my age. So I transferred
to a small school in Nebraska, Wesley, and played my
final two years Eligibili there and had a blast. So
(22:54):
I got the I got the taste of the big time.
I gotta really go back to I will say high school,
but go back to small school and and be a
really good player, Um, again on the field, as opposed
to just a scout team player, and it was fun.
It was great. Studied biology. Thought I was going to
(23:15):
be a small time, small town doctor and I love socializing,
I love people, so I thought it was a good fit.
But I got the opportunity to get in the NFL,
which football was my passion. So you had, I mean
growing up. I look back on that now that you're
telling me that small town doctor grew up in in
you ma, Colorado. Um, get we get to the big league,
(23:38):
so to speak, as we're all working our way as scouts,
and you always had a really, really cool way of
bonding with everyone you could. You had a way of
bonding with someone like me who we were very different
from style standpoint and from where we where we come
from and what are maybe some of our outlooks are. Politically,
we haven't had a ton of discussions about that. Doesn't
really matter, Um, but you could relate to me, you
(24:01):
could relate to some of the older scouts that were
so important to our growth and evolution. You had a
way and I don't know how many people across the
country during those years would lauge you for being that
young scout who was very respectful, who would roll up
his sleeves you at a pro day, and too many
of the young guys nowadays, I will tell you, unfortunate.
(24:22):
I don't want to sound like the old dude now,
but you know they're sitting back you and I know
how important that was to take the lead, get up there.
We were a low men on the totem pole. We
would roll out the tape, we would measure, we would
do everything we needed to do to make sure that
we were doing our part as up and coming scouts
and and I admire that beyond well, I saw that
in you and as even though we worked together those
(24:44):
years in New England, I was always trying to compete
with you. And you started by mowing fields and chalking
fields and doing everything you could, working in the equipment
room um and work your way up. So you had
a tremendous work ethic that everybody really respected. So I
had to keep up with you. So well, you you.
(25:05):
I appreciate that. And yet there was such a feel
around the league to to lodge you even more that
you were on your way and things where, you know
you handle things in a really proper way, your interaction with,
you know, leaders. I mean you know, you and I talked.
We've talked about it before. Three sixty leadership is important,
not only when you're here at the GM spot, but
(25:25):
as you're growing leading, you know, to your peers, leading below,
which I thought you had a really good way of
handling yourself, and then leading up. And you're leading up.
I thought said a really good tone for a lot
of people, and there have been people over the years
who have shared with me, and I'm proud of it
in my own situation, that we rose to the top not,
as you know, in the business all the time, meaning
(25:46):
in the office all to try, I'm trying to circuitously
navigate and try to get to the top a certain way,
that we did it from the core. We are evaluators
at the very core, and that's a really big part
of a general manager today and that's something that, again,
is respected and I hear from people again and again
how much they respect and we've paved the way humbly
(26:07):
for a lot of those scouts who are now moving
up through the ranks and becoming GMS or directors and such.
So I think it's great let's talk about succession. As
a GM succession planning is very important. You have to
have the right people around you and you have to
think about next steps. You have, respectfully and Um aging
(26:28):
head coach, close to retirement or not. Who knows, you
may go. You have an aging quarterback, both at the
top of their game and you think about next steps. Right.
We think about some of the people and organizations in
the business world and we can talk about them. In
the NFL, the bill belichicks of the world and the
N C double a, Nick Saban Um in, in the NBA,
(26:49):
Gregg Popovich. They have been in their organizations for a
long time. It's the stability of an organization. We know
that is really, really important. You are very unfortunate, Um
to have an ownership group who had patients with you
over the years, and you've been very up front about that.
How fortunate that has been for you to have those,
(27:12):
you know, the glazers behind you. Can you talk a
little bit about that and how important that relationship is?
And again, some of us on the outside perceive it
as a little bit of an enigmatic element to their
their ownership. They're not on the sidelines, they're not you know,
beating their chests. They're doing their thing. How important is
that relationship with you? Extremely I have a good relationship
(27:35):
with all of them. They're very open. I can call
them at any point talk things through, which they like.
They never give me mandates or directives, but I like
talking through things with them, getting another seeing things through
a different Lens. They've they've owned this team for a
long time. They've they've seen a lot of things. Um,
(27:57):
they I think it's very important. I thought from day
one one thing that I did right is just to
be honest with them about everything. Honest with them when
you make a mistake. Um, honest with them about your
Um decisions that weren't good and just be upfront about
it instead of trying to cover things up in Um,
(28:20):
you know, casting a net that you can't get out of.
Our better way of seeing it's weaving a web that
that you know you can't get out of. Um. So
just being up front, and I think they appreciated that,
because I appreciate that with the people that I work with.
I think it's a it's a great point as we
continue to grow in this business. I mean, candor is
(28:41):
really important. Let's be straight. It's only going to be
helpful for the organization as there's mutual respect and appreciation
for what we do and as GMS and former GMS
appreciate the ownership for what they do. They have a
lot on the plate and ultimately it's their business and
they can do whatever they want to do. We we
appreciate that and respected, of course. Which leads me to
(29:01):
my next question. Is Head coaches get opportunities after fired
to get another head coaching job or maybe another GMS
historically are not getting another opportunity. It's it's a known
fact for the most part that they get one shot
and one shot only, and they have to go back
being an assistant GM or personnel director or a consultant.
(29:23):
It's changing. Trent bulky gets a second opportunity this year.
Martin Mayhew gets a second opportunity up in Washington, Trent
in Jacksonville. Um You have people like Bill Polian who
thrived as a second time GM, of course, and and more.
How do you feel about that? Why do you feel
GMS aren't getting a second opportunity? It's a it's a
very good question. At the I think coaches have a
(29:48):
lot of responsibility. Obviously and they're the leader of the team. Um,
they are out in front of the team every day
and the team typically takes on the personality or Kn
and of the coach and it's different than some other sports,
of baseball, for example. Um, you still need a great manager,
(30:08):
but in football so sometimes it's ownership or GM will
feel like it's time for a change. Maybe the story
has been told too many times to the team and
it's time to move on, even though they've had success
and then maybe a little bit of a drought. But
another team will take that coach in and that his
(30:30):
style is maybe exactly what that team needs. I think
they're just out a little bit more publicly than GMS
are and just a little bit owners see the coach
out front. They want that for their team, for their culture.
Don't necessarily see that with the GM, who's behind the scenes.
I would argue that as well. I would agree and
(30:50):
argue with anyone who would suggest that. You know, there
aren't opportunities. There are general managers who have a ton
of experience out there right now, former general managers. I'm
talking arry reese, what he did, and you know with
the giants, Scott Pioli, what he has he has done
in this league and has adeptness at putting together teams
and football players, evaluation, etcetera, etcetera. You Know Rick Smith,
(31:12):
formerly of Houston. I mean there's some really adept people
out there who may not get an opportunity because that's
not what an organization is looking for. They may be
looking for younger guys. I mean when you and I
got our opportunities we were in our forties, early forties,
and that was the right place. It still seems to
be that way. You know, it's it's happened at a
couple of different places, like Atlanta with Terry Fontino, Brad
(31:33):
Holmes up in Detroit. Those are good things for the league.
We love it all right. Let's let's venture off here
for a minute. Let's go to the future of the
NFL next five, fifteen years, just in general. Where do
you see the league going and where are we? Maybe
we we filter in and and add a little bit
(31:54):
of a discussion on diversity and such. I think we
have done a the league has done a really good
job of starting to the uptick of Minorities in terms
of head coaching jobs and general manager a little bit
(32:14):
up and down with the head coaches, Um, but this
year we saw several general managers, minority general managers, black
general managers, being hired. I think there's there's the efforts
are rising. Um, we may not be seeing the results
that we want overall, but I think the efforts are
rising and I think we'll see the fruits of the
(32:37):
Labor come down the road here in the next five
to ten years. It's a really good point. So we
start talking about organizations that are looked upon very favorably
in that area of diversity and making the moves. You
have a head coach and Bruce Arians who is just
amazingly on the front of all of that curve. You,
as a GM are perceived in the same way your organization,
(32:58):
the Tampa Bay buccaneers, is perceived as that. Talk to
me a little bit about that in general a little
bit more specifically, what Bruce is about, what you're about,
where the organization is and the hiring and cultivating of
that talent. One of Bruce's biggest things he wanted to
bring and he wants to bring to an organization is diversity,
(33:22):
not just with race but also gender, and he was
we're the first organization because of Bruce. They have four
coordinators that are all African, American, offense, defense special teams,
and then Harold Goodwins as our assistant head coach. We
have two female assistant coaches. Um, I have one in scouting,
(33:44):
our nutrition nous. Um. It's it's starting to grow and
we are all about inclusion and we don't want it
to stop here. We want this to continue to expand
without throughout the organization, something that Bruce is very proud
out of, I'm very proud of, our owners are very
proud of. What was the question that you feared that
(34:06):
I was going to ask you and I didn't ask uh,
you've always been very frank and very direct, sometimes no
filter since I've known you. So I was afraid you
were going to ask just how bucked up I got
at the parade from drinking, how many drinks I actually
(34:30):
had on the boat. So I felt like we had
talked about the parade before. I thought you were going
to ask me that question. Well, it's a good question,
so I'm not gonna ask you that question. But what
has always intrigued me as the general manager and Co
team builder of a great organization with a ship in
the end zone a pirate ship in the end zone? No,
no doubt. And by the way, Rich McKay was important
(34:52):
to actually build that ship in the back of your
end zone, who, I spent many years in Atlanta, left here.
He left a good legacy, but I also I I
damned him so many times every time we were listening
to that that cannon go off time. All right, my question,
final question. Have you ever gotten so off the wall, drunk,
(35:15):
it's called the way it is, that you've had to
sleep on that ship because you didn't want to go
home at night? No, I haven't. The closest I came
after the Super Bowl. I will say that it could
have happened, but we had an after party and, uh,
luckily I got pushed into a bus and we won't
talk about what happened there. But pushed in the bus
(35:36):
is better than you navigating the back of the ship
saying where is the soft spot for me to hang?
I'm glad you didn't do that. If the party were
at the stadium, there's probably about a chance it would have.
I would have ended up sleeping on that ship. Jason Light,
I couldn't ask for a better interview. Really excited about
having you thanks. We're in the middle of a parking lot.
We almost got oust did we pulled it off. Thanks
(35:57):
for your time. God bless you. I appreciate you, man.
Do Thank you. Wow. I mean what a great journey
that was to head down to Tampa as my number
one visit across the country, and to do it with
Jason Light and to rekindle a friendship and to put
competitiveness aside and really have a soulful visit. It means
(36:19):
the world to me. It's funny because since then Jason
and I have talked a number of times and and
we both agree like, without being a little melodramatic about it,
that you know, it is heartwarming that you can kind
of rekindle and go back to what you truly believe
is an appreciation for two two men who are really
driven towards the same thing Um, and that is to
(36:39):
to be successful in the national football league. Look, there's
a lot more in this journey. We're leaving from Tampa,
heading over to New Orleans and all the way across
the country. I hope you guys can join us. You
have been listening to the GM journey with Thomas Demtrough.
Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews GMS from your
favorite NFL teams. The GM journey has been produced by
(37:04):
Alan Castenbaum, Thomas demittrop and Octagon Entertainment. Don't forget to
download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you
get your podcast from. The GM journey is distributed by
the eight side network.
My name is arial custom bound and I am the
founder of fair meals. Five, Oh, one, C, three, status
nonprofit that focuses on easy, healthy and affordable meal solutions
for families of all walks of life. On our website,
fair meals dot org, you can find, free of charge,
tons of tips, tricks and recipes that encompass our three
(00:21):
pillars of health, ease and affordability. To help continue to
make our programming the best it can be, please consider
donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org.
Forward slash donate. I had this feeling at one time
(00:51):
that I wanted to travel the country and I wanted
to professionally develop at the same time. After getting fired
last year and I was thinking I need be around
my people, I need to be around my contemporaries, and
I thought what better place to start than to jump
in my sprinter van, you know, pack all of my
stuff and head down to Tampa. Let's start to you know,
(01:11):
let's start out with the Super Bowl champions last year
and let's dig into that relationship. Welcome to the GM
journey with Thomas Dimitrof from that relationship is a special relationship,
my relationship with Jason Light goes all the way back
to New England patriots and even before we've spent a
(01:33):
lot of time as as competitors, not only competitors when
we are both general managers for us two of the
very hot competitors within our division, Tampa Bay and the
Atlanta Falcons. Of course, this goes all the way back
to when we were growing up as scouts in the league.
We both were highly competitive driven, very, very different personalities. Man,
we both loved football and we just had very different
(01:56):
styles and different approaches. You know, Jason was known as
one of those guys out there, as one of the
hardest working guys, rolled up his sleeves. He was football
through and through, Rural Colorado Guy and and he set
the tone in a lot of ways. But as we
were growing through this business together, we worked together, we
were competitors and you could tell there was always a
(02:16):
little bit of fun competition there. Prior to sitting in
that general manager spot, we were competing as scouts trying
to get to the general manager spot and that's where
a lot of competition comes in this league. So you're
always looking at your your competitors as they make their
move towards being general managers and it's it's a very,
very interesting part of our our personality and our relationship together.
(02:42):
We started it off when I got down to Tampa
man we spent time at burn steakhouse, one of the
best steakhouses in the world, one of the best honestly,
one of the best wine sellers worldwide. We spent a
great evening there with a few great people. We had
David Campton there as an agent. We had ab be
stucky that one of the world's Best Uh and and
(03:02):
premier master Somalia's he was there. We were with our
fiances and wives and we were talking football through and
through and interestingly enough, Jason came through the door with that,
with that Super Bowl trophy in his hand, basically saying
to me, here you go. I actually promped him, prompted
him to do that. It wasn't something that he did
on his own. We had a great time with it
(03:24):
that night. The next day we rolled cigars uh you know,
in Ebor city and we really took an opportunity to
rekindle what was a really appreciative friendship and competition when
we were younger. Now that many years later, here's the
funny thing. After all of a sudden, done in many,
many hours together during this this visit down in Tampa,
(03:46):
we realized that we were much closer to being the
same soulful people, that we really thought of each other
and we thought, wow, we're not that far apart at all.
And it and it totally rekindled a friendship, in a
relationship and a and a and a sort of an
admirable approach to to each other. And and, uh, I'll
(04:06):
never forget that. It was heartwarming, to say the least.
It ended up being a great visit in a great time.
Check it out. Here we are, Ebor city, Cigar City, Tampa.
Unbelievable feel here, unbelievable energy. But the best thing is
we're here with the Super Bowl winning super super recognized
(04:28):
in this area, G M Jason, like Tampa Bay Buccaneers, uh,
the team builder of the Super Bowl winning organization. Great
to have you here. You and I go back a long,
long way. Who would have thought we'd be sitting in
Abor City in a outdoor think tank, Um, you know, awning.
We just, interestingly enough, just got peppered by the owner
(04:51):
of this parking lot. We almost got kicked out of here,
but we're able to pull it off. So luckily, we
were able to talk it through and you were able
to pull some rank there by introducing your Elf as
a GM of the bucks. So it's finally, it's finally
nice to be recognized here. That's exactly right. You diffuse
the situation, um. So here we are. I'd love to
just have a really cool conversation with you, Um, and
(05:14):
just talk to you about life in general as a GM,
where we're going, the future of the League, a lot
of really interesting pointed questions and and I would love
to say, first of all, thanks for joining Um. I
say this, and this is by my own algorithm, you
are the best football general manager in the world right now,
(05:36):
and that's tough for you. You and I have known
each other a long time and you you have a
little bit of that humble side that that's tough to hear,
but it's a reality. Until the season starts, you hold
that that rain and that crown and I love it.
I never had an opportunity to do that. I want
to chat with you a little bit about that. How
does that feel? What are the emotions that go through
your mind a little bit during that time? But now
(05:58):
as you're walking around the city being recognized and more
than anything, how does it feel to know that you
achieved what ultimately you wanted to achieve as a GM
a lot of a lot of emotions, I would say.
The first one is it just makes me proud for
all of the staff in the entire organization working so
(06:20):
hard all of these years to get to that point.
Took some time. Took more time than I thought, you know.
As you know, this business take some patience and luckily
our owners had patience, but just an incredible staff and
also just you know, you have kids and it makes
(06:40):
me proud of for my you always want to make
your children proud and so at some point I can
say they can say, you know, they their father was
part of the Super Bowl winning team, at least one,
but it's a very big thing to me. So so,
I mean it's a great point. You know, we think
about our kids with about our family. Um, there was
(07:03):
a lot of there. You and I have had our
fair share of getting our asses kicked by fan bases
and media over the years. That's part of this sport right,
that's part of what we do. We know that going
in right as a director of college scouting or director
of personnel. We don't feel it as much. You get
into this role. It's big. There's a lot of pressure, uh,
from a lot of different areas. When you were hoisting
(07:25):
that trophy, talk to me about the emotions of that.
Did you have a little bit of looking around saying hey,
there were a lot of naysayers over the years, questioning,
like I got questions. I remember in six team we
were you know, when we won the NFC championship, there
was an unbelievable amount of motion for me to look
out there and say, all right, we accomplished a lot
more than you all gave us credit for. Where were
(07:47):
you with all that? Well, the first thing I thought
of when I was kind of spanning the field were
the players that have been here their entire career without
even making it to the playoffs. And it's been a
long it's been a it's been a drought here and
for them to have to hear me say just be
(08:09):
patient with them, just like we talked to our fan base,
just like we talked to other employees, just be patient,
we're on the brink, we're close, and for it to
actually happen, to see Lavonte David for one, just a
great player, great person to finally be able to say
that he was a super bowl champ. Mike Evans, you know,
the list goes on and on, but that was the first.
(08:31):
Then you then you think of the employees equally as important,
but the employees that have been here, you know, for
over a decade, that hadn't even sniffed the playoffs. So Um,
and then to win the Super Bowl is just the
crowning achievement. It was. So you think about that. We
grew up in the business as road scouts, we call
used to call ourselves road grunts, and we are proud
(08:52):
of it. Right where. We rose through through the operation
and eventually became GMS. You still me a recently fire GM.
It's kind of weird to say that every once in
a while because I think about it. A third teen
year run unbelievable. You don't see that. You had mentioned
before and I appreciate that. And and you've won super
bowls in New England, a super bowl in New England, right,
(09:14):
and we were personnel people there. You were a personnel
director there and you were growing and evolving. The difference
in feeling the super bowl win when you're at the
helm very you know that idea is very interesting for
me to try to get my head around again. Winning
an NFC championship is one thing as a GM and
knowing that you were the CO team builder with Bruce
(09:35):
Arians and put that together, I mean, brother, that is
a huge, huge feather in the CAP. How does that feel,
the difference from being a scout winning it or a
personnel director to being the guy? Well, it's great. Both
both were unbelievable and when you're the general manager, and
(09:55):
I'm sure for the head coach and owners, it's you've got.
You have a few more battle scars then than they
do because we take a beating we, and deservedly so,
for a lot of the things we've done, the losses,
the poor choices and decisions that you've had along the way,
but they almost immediately heal at the moment and it's
(10:18):
you forget about them and you forget about the receipts
that you can't help but keep over the years Um
and it's so that that rush of just that just
going away and then have starting fresh, starting the new
is it's that's part of what makes it so special.
Love that. I love that so let's backtrack for a
(10:38):
minute just kind of educate those that don't know our relationship.
We go back all the way to New England. We
were coming up through the ranks around the same time.
I'm exponentially older than you. Not Really, I think I'm
four years different, but we were going through the ranks
and we were in the Patriot paradigm and organization. Learned
so much from Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli about team
(10:59):
bill thing. Um, we both were very different, I mean personalities.
You know, we have different interests, we have different approaches
and yet, you know, we had a great deal of
respect for each other and I think we both knew
that both of us were aiming to be general managers
and aiming to be ultimately Super Bowl champion GMS way
(11:19):
back then. You know the ideas. Um, you go one way,
I go another way. You hit a few organizations, two
or three organizations, I continue to do my thing and
grow in this business. And, Um, the the irony of
all this is the very individual that you know helped
your dreams come true. Not Saying it's all Tom Brady,
(11:41):
but the acquisition of Tom Brady and how he helped
you guys as team builders lead this organization to a championship,
is the very person that ultimately, I say this lovingly
to Tom Because I appreciate it, ultimately cost me my
job in sixteen, meaning we lost the Super Bowl in sixteen.
Would I still be in Atlanta right now? People often
(12:02):
asked me if we would have won the Super Bowl
in sixteen and Tom Brady didn't do the miraculous things
that he does. Maybe, maybe not, but it helped your
dream come true. That is a really, really interesting thing,
Tom Brady, for you and the organization since he's come here.
What does that mean to you at this point? It was.
(12:24):
It was very gratifying that he chose Tampa when he
was a free agent. It told us that we had
been building it the right way, we had done the
right things, had the right pieces, I had hired the
right coach. All of those things were draws for him.
(12:45):
So that was a win in itself. And then getting him,
along with B A, to have a head coach in
a quarterback, which extremely important pieces of the puzzle, the
two most important pieces, two chance transformed the culture of
the building, not just the players but the coaches. Every
(13:06):
every facet of the organization changed because of those two. Um, ultimately,
let us to the well, now there's everybody had their part.
You know, we have a lot of great players, but
I think that in itself was the wake up call
that we all needed. And you know, it's it's pretty
cool that Tom Brady and I share his first Super
(13:27):
Bowl Ring and his last super bowl rate. So, Um,
it's it's been. It's been a fun ride to see
him as the second year player, when it be be
a part of that as a Scout, and then see
him win a seventh in his, you know, year in
the League. So it's an unbelievable just an unbelievable accomplishment
(13:47):
and the bond that you guys have is special, probably
second to none, less as you start processing. All Right,
I'm a big believer in you know, as GMS you
have to not sit on your hand. You have to
be aggressive. Call Them Ball Z move. Let's call him
the baller move. If you look back on your your
career as a GM and there's really one move that
(14:08):
you made that was the quintessential baller move, what would
that be? everyding would assume that would say going after
Tom Brady, and that was but I would say talking
Bruce Arians out of retirement to come to lead this organization.
(14:29):
I love that and you think about you think about
Bruce Arians, how important it was. You and I know,
and we could riff forever about relationships between general managers
and personnel departments, head coach and, you know, coaching staffs vital.
There's so much conversation to be had there. Where is
Bruce in that? What is your relationship with Bruce personally
(14:51):
and professionally? You know, is it something that you realize
to have the right head coach as your partner is
paramount to be in assessment? It's it's the ultimate factor
in having success. I believe that we worked together for
a year in Arizona. So we had we had built
a relationship based on trust there and we became very
(15:14):
good friends. Now we we get along great. He's like
a best friend uncle wrapped up in one. But we
also argue. Well, I've said this numerous times. Um, we
know when we disagree, we agree to disagree, but there's
never a divide in our building and Bruce is all
about inclusiveness in our scouting and coaching staff. He's all
(15:39):
about inclusiveness in terms of diversity. Um, he's taught this
organization a lot of lessons that hopefully continue throughout the
organization and the League. If you don't have a head
coach in this league like you have with Bruce, it
can be rocky, it can be cumbersome, it can be,
you know, the proverbial piss and up the tree. I
(16:00):
mean it's tough, it's complicated. It needs to happen. There
needs to be that mix. There needs to be a
massive amount of respect, I believe, for your craft and
you for him as not only a coach, as a
team builder, as a Co evaluator for you. I mean
it's it's vital and you. You struck gold on that one.
(16:21):
And when I was watching it from afar, I thought, really,
is Bruce Really gonna come out of retirement? He's such
a good dude. He's got a great stick, meaning he
gulfs his ass off. It's fun to watch. I don't
know about you, but I definitely couldn't hang with someone
like him. I'm trying. I love the sport, but that's
kind of trying to get there. I know we all
are right. So, okay, let's jump to another sort of
(16:41):
area here. I'M gonna ask you three questions on this
pre profession. What was the most important leadership lesson that
you had growing up? Well, GROWING UP UM rate family,
great parents. My father struggled with Addiction, alcohol addiction when
(17:07):
I was a young kid. Um. Unfortunately my father passed
away a couple of years ago, but I was about
twelve years old. He just gave it up and he
became wonderful father, my best friend, like a great mentor,
and it taught me that people deserve second chances and
(17:29):
you've got to learn from your mistakes and you've got
to be yourself. And he's uh, he's been my idol
and I still talked to him every day. He's an
amazing person and very proud of the man that he
became an father. Thanks for sharing that. Those are we
all have some semblance of our relationship, I think, in
(17:50):
this business, to our fathers, of course at different levels,
and it's wonderful to hear that. I didn't know that.
I didn't know the bond that you guys had. You
are listening to the GM journey with Thomas demitrof. We'll
be right back. As you were climbing through the ranks
within the NFL pre general manager, what was the most
(18:13):
important leadership mode or or or information that you gained.
I've been fortunate to work for some legendary head coaches,
Don Shula, Jimmy Johnson, Andy Reid, Bill Belichick of course
Bruce Arians. Take a little bit from each one, but
one that sticks with me is the leadership style that
(18:35):
Andy Reid had with he always gave credit to the
people in the organization, whether it's the trainer, the assistant coaches,
the the GM, the personnel director of the College Director,
whoever it is, and took the bullet if something went
wrong and was the first to say that was my mistake,
(18:58):
that was on me. It just made you want to
give your best for him and run through a wall
for him, and I think that brought out the best
in everybody. Well, I mean that's a great point right
the extreme ownership idea, Jocko Wilnick, whoever is out there
talking about that in public. That is a big thing.
It's easy to push it off and try to justify
(19:19):
as we're moving through the ranks, even as we're growing.
Let's move into being the general manager, as you are
the general manager and continue to grow and evolve as
a general manager. What is the biggest leadership lesson that
you've learned since actually being at the helm. I wish
I could go back two myself, the first couple of
(19:40):
years and not have the thought that I could handle
everything myself and be a task master and spend countless
hours there and micromanaging everything. As I got into it,
after a few years you learned to delegate and you
(20:01):
learn to trust the people you hire and put the
ultimate trust in them. And I joke around, but I
tell them my ultimate goal is that do nothing. You know,
this is just running on its own and of course
I'm not gonna do nothing, but it's right now, the
way we have it. I feel awesome about it. It
is kind of on autopilot. Everybody knows their job, everybody
(20:22):
has the role, and that, you know, comes from Bill,
who we've worked for so well. On autopilot is great
and you and I both know the importance of communication.
Right during this communicating, even though you've delegated very well
and you have some really adapt people around you. To
your point, you can say the partnership between the head
coach and the GM is vital, but to have the
right people around you and your respective parts of the organization.
(20:45):
Bruce on the coaching side, you on the you know,
the team building personnel side is really really important, on
the finance side, on the player engagement side. There's so
many important parts to that. I think it's I think
it's great you've shown that you can have that and grow.
Communication vital, which you know, I continue to think about that.
Where I ever made any mistakes? Not ever made any.
(21:07):
Of course I made many, just like you know about
making mistakes. We all know about it in this role.
It came that back to me in a communication way
one way or another, where things either broke down or
I took it for granted that everyone was fine and
they could move forward and I was focusing way too
much in the final years on my relationship with Dan Quinn.
(21:29):
We had a great relationship. I needed to make sure
that I did not pull away from the Middle Management Group,
the directors. You know, that was really really important to
make sure that I was communicating and I learned that.
I maybe heard learned it a little bit in a
different way, but that was important. It's difficult something I
still have to continue to work on. It's you know,
(21:50):
we won the Super Bowl, but I have many flaws.
And it's always continuing to try to get better and
I know where my flaws are and it's it can
be difficult, that it can happen. You can. I've learned
that through my father. You can work through things and
become a better person so quickly. Then go back to
(22:10):
growing up. I'm talking about youth through college, you know,
before you got into the profession. Is there anything that
you would have done differently? Would you go into a
different college? Would you have studied something different? I'm just
curious about those years. Probably not. Um, I walked on
at Nebraska. It was my dream to play Division One.
(22:34):
Actually played on the freshman team, red shirted and then
lettered my third year as a backup offensive lineman. I
was backing up some players that played in the League
for a long time, once a hall of Famer and
will shields. Um was not gonna see the field. They
were younger than me or my age. So I transferred
to a small school in Nebraska, Wesley, and played my
final two years Eligibili there and had a blast. So
(22:54):
I got the I got the taste of the big time.
I gotta really go back to I will say high school,
but go back to small school and and be a
really good player, Um, again on the field, as opposed
to just a scout team player, and it was fun.
It was great. Studied biology. Thought I was going to
(23:15):
be a small time, small town doctor and I love socializing,
I love people, so I thought it was a good fit.
But I got the opportunity to get in the NFL,
which football was my passion. So you had, I mean
growing up. I look back on that now that you're
telling me that small town doctor grew up in in
you ma, Colorado. Um, get we get to the big league,
(23:38):
so to speak, as we're all working our way as scouts,
and you always had a really, really cool way of
bonding with everyone you could. You had a way of
bonding with someone like me who we were very different
from style standpoint and from where we where we come
from and what are maybe some of our outlooks are. Politically,
we haven't had a ton of discussions about that. Doesn't
really matter, Um, but you could relate to me, you
(24:01):
could relate to some of the older scouts that were
so important to our growth and evolution. You had a
way and I don't know how many people across the
country during those years would lauge you for being that
young scout who was very respectful, who would roll up
his sleeves you at a pro day, and too many
of the young guys nowadays, I will tell you, unfortunate.
(24:22):
I don't want to sound like the old dude now,
but you know they're sitting back you and I know
how important that was to take the lead, get up there.
We were a low men on the totem pole. We
would roll out the tape, we would measure, we would
do everything we needed to do to make sure that
we were doing our part as up and coming scouts
and and I admire that beyond well, I saw that
in you and as even though we worked together those
(24:44):
years in New England, I was always trying to compete
with you. And you started by mowing fields and chalking
fields and doing everything you could, working in the equipment
room um and work your way up. So you had
a tremendous work ethic that everybody really respected. So I
had to keep up with you. So well, you you.
(25:05):
I appreciate that. And yet there was such a feel
around the league to to lodge you even more that
you were on your way and things where, you know
you handle things in a really proper way, your interaction with,
you know, leaders. I mean you know, you and I talked.
We've talked about it before. Three sixty leadership is important,
not only when you're here at the GM spot, but
(25:25):
as you're growing leading, you know, to your peers, leading below,
which I thought you had a really good way of
handling yourself, and then leading up. And you're leading up.
I thought said a really good tone for a lot
of people, and there have been people over the years
who have shared with me, and I'm proud of it
in my own situation, that we rose to the top not,
as you know, in the business all the time, meaning
(25:46):
in the office all to try, I'm trying to circuitously
navigate and try to get to the top a certain way,
that we did it from the core. We are evaluators
at the very core, and that's a really big part
of a general manager today and that's something that, again,
is respected and I hear from people again and again
how much they respect and we've paved the way humbly
(26:07):
for a lot of those scouts who are now moving
up through the ranks and becoming GMS or directors and such.
So I think it's great let's talk about succession. As
a GM succession planning is very important. You have to
have the right people around you and you have to
think about next steps. You have, respectfully and Um aging
(26:28):
head coach, close to retirement or not. Who knows, you
may go. You have an aging quarterback, both at the
top of their game and you think about next steps. Right.
We think about some of the people and organizations in
the business world and we can talk about them. In
the NFL, the bill belichicks of the world and the
N C double a, Nick Saban Um in, in the NBA,
(26:49):
Gregg Popovich. They have been in their organizations for a
long time. It's the stability of an organization. We know
that is really, really important. You are very unfortunate, Um
to have an ownership group who had patients with you
over the years, and you've been very up front about that.
How fortunate that has been for you to have those,
(27:12):
you know, the glazers behind you. Can you talk a
little bit about that and how important that relationship is?
And again, some of us on the outside perceive it
as a little bit of an enigmatic element to their
their ownership. They're not on the sidelines, they're not you know,
beating their chests. They're doing their thing. How important is
that relationship with you? Extremely I have a good relationship
(27:35):
with all of them. They're very open. I can call
them at any point talk things through, which they like.
They never give me mandates or directives, but I like
talking through things with them, getting another seeing things through
a different Lens. They've they've owned this team for a
long time. They've they've seen a lot of things. Um,
(27:57):
they I think it's very important. I thought from day
one one thing that I did right is just to
be honest with them about everything. Honest with them when
you make a mistake. Um, honest with them about your
Um decisions that weren't good and just be upfront about
it instead of trying to cover things up in Um,
(28:20):
you know, casting a net that you can't get out of.
Our better way of seeing it's weaving a web that
that you know you can't get out of. Um. So
just being up front, and I think they appreciated that,
because I appreciate that with the people that I work with.
I think it's a it's a great point as we
continue to grow in this business. I mean, candor is
(28:41):
really important. Let's be straight. It's only going to be
helpful for the organization as there's mutual respect and appreciation
for what we do and as GMS and former GMS
appreciate the ownership for what they do. They have a
lot on the plate and ultimately it's their business and
they can do whatever they want to do. We we
appreciate that and respected, of course. Which leads me to
(29:01):
my next question. Is Head coaches get opportunities after fired
to get another head coaching job or maybe another GMS
historically are not getting another opportunity. It's it's a known
fact for the most part that they get one shot
and one shot only, and they have to go back
being an assistant GM or personnel director or a consultant.
(29:23):
It's changing. Trent bulky gets a second opportunity this year.
Martin Mayhew gets a second opportunity up in Washington, Trent
in Jacksonville. Um You have people like Bill Polian who
thrived as a second time GM, of course, and and more.
How do you feel about that? Why do you feel
GMS aren't getting a second opportunity? It's a it's a
very good question. At the I think coaches have a
(29:48):
lot of responsibility. Obviously and they're the leader of the team. Um,
they are out in front of the team every day
and the team typically takes on the personality or Kn
and of the coach and it's different than some other sports,
of baseball, for example. Um, you still need a great manager,
(30:08):
but in football so sometimes it's ownership or GM will
feel like it's time for a change. Maybe the story
has been told too many times to the team and
it's time to move on, even though they've had success
and then maybe a little bit of a drought. But
another team will take that coach in and that his
(30:30):
style is maybe exactly what that team needs. I think
they're just out a little bit more publicly than GMS
are and just a little bit owners see the coach
out front. They want that for their team, for their culture.
Don't necessarily see that with the GM, who's behind the scenes.
I would argue that as well. I would agree and
(30:50):
argue with anyone who would suggest that. You know, there
aren't opportunities. There are general managers who have a ton
of experience out there right now, former general managers. I'm
talking arry reese, what he did, and you know with
the giants, Scott Pioli, what he has he has done
in this league and has adeptness at putting together teams
and football players, evaluation, etcetera, etcetera. You Know Rick Smith,
(31:12):
formerly of Houston. I mean there's some really adept people
out there who may not get an opportunity because that's
not what an organization is looking for. They may be
looking for younger guys. I mean when you and I
got our opportunities we were in our forties, early forties,
and that was the right place. It still seems to
be that way. You know, it's it's happened at a
couple of different places, like Atlanta with Terry Fontino, Brad
(31:33):
Holmes up in Detroit. Those are good things for the league.
We love it all right. Let's let's venture off here
for a minute. Let's go to the future of the
NFL next five, fifteen years, just in general. Where do
you see the league going and where are we? Maybe
we we filter in and and add a little bit
(31:54):
of a discussion on diversity and such. I think we
have done a the league has done a really good
job of starting to the uptick of Minorities in terms
of head coaching jobs and general manager a little bit
(32:14):
up and down with the head coaches, Um, but this
year we saw several general managers, minority general managers, black
general managers, being hired. I think there's there's the efforts
are rising. Um, we may not be seeing the results
that we want overall, but I think the efforts are
rising and I think we'll see the fruits of the
(32:37):
Labor come down the road here in the next five
to ten years. It's a really good point. So we
start talking about organizations that are looked upon very favorably
in that area of diversity and making the moves. You
have a head coach and Bruce Arians who is just
amazingly on the front of all of that curve. You,
as a GM are perceived in the same way your organization,
(32:58):
the Tampa Bay buccaneers, is perceived as that. Talk to
me a little bit about that in general a little
bit more specifically, what Bruce is about, what you're about,
where the organization is and the hiring and cultivating of
that talent. One of Bruce's biggest things he wanted to
bring and he wants to bring to an organization is diversity,
(33:22):
not just with race but also gender, and he was
we're the first organization because of Bruce. They have four
coordinators that are all African, American, offense, defense special teams,
and then Harold Goodwins as our assistant head coach. We
have two female assistant coaches. Um, I have one in scouting,
(33:44):
our nutrition nous. Um. It's it's starting to grow and
we are all about inclusion and we don't want it
to stop here. We want this to continue to expand
without throughout the organization, something that Bruce is very proud
out of, I'm very proud of, our owners are very
proud of. What was the question that you feared that
(34:06):
I was going to ask you and I didn't ask uh,
you've always been very frank and very direct, sometimes no
filter since I've known you. So I was afraid you
were going to ask just how bucked up I got
at the parade from drinking, how many drinks I actually
(34:30):
had on the boat. So I felt like we had
talked about the parade before. I thought you were going
to ask me that question. Well, it's a good question,
so I'm not gonna ask you that question. But what
has always intrigued me as the general manager and Co
team builder of a great organization with a ship in
the end zone a pirate ship in the end zone? No,
no doubt. And by the way, Rich McKay was important
(34:52):
to actually build that ship in the back of your
end zone, who, I spent many years in Atlanta, left here.
He left a good legacy, but I also I I
damned him so many times every time we were listening
to that that cannon go off time. All right, my question,
final question. Have you ever gotten so off the wall, drunk,
(35:15):
it's called the way it is, that you've had to
sleep on that ship because you didn't want to go
home at night? No, I haven't. The closest I came
after the Super Bowl. I will say that it could
have happened, but we had an after party and, uh,
luckily I got pushed into a bus and we won't
talk about what happened there. But pushed in the bus
(35:36):
is better than you navigating the back of the ship
saying where is the soft spot for me to hang?
I'm glad you didn't do that. If the party were
at the stadium, there's probably about a chance it would have.
I would have ended up sleeping on that ship. Jason Light,
I couldn't ask for a better interview. Really excited about
having you thanks. We're in the middle of a parking lot.
We almost got oust did we pulled it off. Thanks
(35:57):
for your time. God bless you. I appreciate you, man.
Do Thank you. Wow. I mean what a great journey
that was to head down to Tampa as my number
one visit across the country, and to do it with
Jason Light and to rekindle a friendship and to put
competitiveness aside and really have a soulful visit. It means
(36:19):
the world to me. It's funny because since then Jason
and I have talked a number of times and and
we both agree like, without being a little melodramatic about it,
that you know, it is heartwarming that you can kind
of rekindle and go back to what you truly believe
is an appreciation for two two men who are really
driven towards the same thing Um, and that is to
(36:39):
to be successful in the national football league. Look, there's
a lot more in this journey. We're leaving from Tampa,
heading over to New Orleans and all the way across
the country. I hope you guys can join us. You
have been listening to the GM journey with Thomas Demtrough.
Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews GMS from your
favorite NFL teams. The GM journey has been produced by
(37:04):
Alan Castenbaum, Thomas demittrop and Octagon Entertainment. Don't forget to
download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you
get your podcast from. The GM journey is distributed by
the eight side network.
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