August 1, 2022 • 37 mins
Thomas heads to the farm to interview NY Jets GM Joe Douglass. Joe discusses his huge task of rebuilding the Jets and makes sure he does not forget his roots where he rose the ladder in the Ravens organization under Ozzie Newsome and Eric DeCosta.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is arial custom bound and I am the
founder of fair meals, of five, oh, one, c three
status nonprofit that focuses on easy, healthy and affordable meal
solutions for families of all walks of life. On our website,
fair meals dot org, you can find, free of charge,
tons of tips, tricks and recipes that encompass are three
(00:21):
pillars of health, ease and affordability. To help continue to
make our programming the best he can be, please consider
donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org.
Forward slash donate. All Right, I hope you guys really
enjoyed that time with John Robinson down in that really
(00:43):
sweltering heat of Nashville. I mean it's such a cool place.
John is a cool guy. He's got a lot of ability,
you know, on the field and office field, so to speak,
and he truly, as I mentioned, does have the keys
to the kingdom. They do it the right way in Nashville.
He's got a great relationship with his head coach. He's
(01:04):
pulling the strings. That guy is in control. He owns
that city right now. Thanks a lot again for being
on board with us with John Robinson. Welcome to the
GM journey with Thomas Demittrom, as we do, let's travel
a little bit. Let's go up the east coast, up
the interstate to New York, let's go to jet land,
let's go visit Joe Douglas. He's just such a good guy. Good,
(01:28):
big tough football man, knows his game, knows what he wants.
He's working hard to develop a winner there in New York.
He spent some fantastic time with me, really peaceful time actually,
but very thoughtful time out on woody Johnson's farm, I
hope you guys enjoyed again. He's got some really thoughtful
(01:49):
UH insight on how to lead teams and, you know,
how to be a part of a group that really
respects their leaders. Again, you have to remember Joe Douglas
came from Baltimore. He was a part of one of
the best programs, of course, in our nation, being around
Ozzy Newsom and Eric Da Costa. He's ready to take
(02:09):
on an organization and he's ready to win. I'm cheering
for this guy. This guy is a hell of a
person all right. Here we are Bedminster, New Jersey, in
the middle of what you would not imagine the New
York jets to be about and we're out in the
middle of nature with our great friend Joe Douglas. Really
(02:30):
excited about having him here. Joe, thanks for spending the time.
Awesome to be with you. Thomas. Well, look, we I
was thinking that we were going to be out in
the city somewhere, you know, buildings everywhere and cement everywhere,
and I asked you what was the ideal place for
us to be, sort of representing what you were about,
and you said right here. Where are we? By the way?
We're in Bedminster, NEW JERSEY. Um, so that this is
(02:52):
this is Mr Johnson's farm. Uh, and you wouldn't think
that that. We're forty five minutes away from from New
York City, but we are in UH thousand acres and uh,
this is a great place. You know me growing up
in UH, in eastern Virginia. Um, farmland, produce, farm, rivers, Um, this,
this reminds me of home, you know, being here. Well,
(03:14):
I can only imagine coming out here, getting away from
it all. I mean it's it's busy and there's a
lot going on in that GM roll and of course
I spent a lot of time there. No longer so
I'm able to chill and relax and I'm thinking about
you racing over here to try to meet the deadline,
to get over here at a certain time, and I'm thinking,
God bless you. I remember how that was. You know
the funny, very very funny little story, by the way,
when we were first setting this up and you had
(03:35):
mentioned we're gonna be a, you know, woody's farm, I
thought woody's farm was just some random farm out in
New Jersey that you all used. It wasn't dawning on
me it was woody Johnson and I think, man, how, how?
You know? I was like flighty with that whole thing.
It's just knowing it and seeing what this property is
about and to really dig into this area is must
just really settle your world and and uh, kind of
(03:58):
get you on the straight and narrow when you need
it right. Yeah, it brings brings you back to center.
You know you have a stressful day, uh go home,
get the dog, bring the fish and poll out here
just kind of reconnect with nature and get you, get
you back to center. So let's let's dig into this
a little bit. Nineteen years in the League before getting
your general manager spot right, a lot of hard work
(04:18):
along the way. I empathize you with you at a
lot of levels because it took me a long time
to get to where I was going and I and
I value that, I'm sure you do. You know that
you went through so many levels to get to where
you are. You didn't just, you know, jump into a
spot and get lucky. It took a while and you
you have been around a lot of really talented football people.
(04:40):
You finally got your opportunity two years ago. You've spent
amazing time with some amazing football people. To name two,
Ozzy newsome and Howie Roseman, two people that have a
lot of great respect around the league. Could you please
first share, just summarize or classify your leaderships? I'll and
(05:00):
then share a little bit about both Ozzie and Howie
and what you learned, if you were to take away
a lesson learned from both of them from a leadership standpoint,
what that would be? Yeah, I mean, obviously fifteen years
with Ozzy in Baltimore, three years with Howie in Philadelphia,
unbelievable experiences. I'm so blessed. But just my my own
leadership style, Um, I would describe it as as inclusive,
(05:25):
trying to transparency, Um and and trying to communicate as
much as possible. And I think, I think two great
leaders I've been around. You brought up Aussi Um. To me,
the greatest leaders aren't, aren't the ones that have to
coerce you under doing something, or maybe they give you
a right, right talk and that wears off, I feel like,
(05:46):
especially when you talk about a guy like Ozzy k
newsom Ozzy, Ozzy was was the person that you just
never wanted to let let him down. You know, we've
we've all been around those types of leaders growing up,
you know, whether it's in life, in sports, and so
he believed in you so much and he he gave
you all the tools to be as successful as you
(06:06):
could be and you never wanted to let him down.
And then with Howie Um, so, having those fifteen years
in Baltimore with Azzy then going to Philadelphia with Howie
Um just just his creative, his creativeness, his his outside
the box thinking. I think I've I've tried to pull
a little bit from from really those two places and
(06:28):
UH and try to take it here. How he's got
a really open mind, right, always on the front edge,
and I and I do believe in front edge, I
believe and being aggressive. I believe in emerging technology. I
know you and I have talked about over the years,
I before we were GMS and as we were GM's.
We've we've been able to talk about that. I think
it's such an important understanding of always making sure that
(06:49):
you're near the front end of the curve. Not Always,
of course, um, but understanding that it is important and,
of course, how he is that and that's that's been
fun to communicate with him over the years that way.
Zack Wilson, right, yeah, talk to me a little bit
about that, that choice in that process. Again, knowing this,
this guy is full of excitement, he is full of talent.
(07:10):
I mean it's got to be exciting for you right now.
Oh Man, Um, you know just just that, like I
said earlier, when we were when we were able to
get together and have those evaluations and come together as
a group, and it was amazing to see, Um, how
similar that these reports and rankings were on on quite
a few guys. And you know, when we get to
(07:31):
Zach Um, you can see people light up when they're
talking about him and you know just the way he
throws the ball how it comes off his hands, how
pure it is. Um, you know, just just the tape
and then and then we take the time to dive
in on these videos and our scouts dive into the
character and we get to know more about the person.
So h you know, by the time that you know
(07:53):
we're we're we're getting the draft night. You know, everyone's
just just excited to just turn this card in. Let's go,
let's get to work. Uh. There's so much emotion involved
because you put your heart and soul into it right
on the evaluation and all of the discussions. And I
remember personally when when Matt Ryan threw his first past.
I remember being there and there were a lot of
there were a lot of naysayers. It's just the way
(08:14):
it is, right, it doesn't matter. There were a lot
of naysayers and I remember I was standing up with
Arthur and we were watching the very first throw he made.
It was a strike to Michael Jenkins for a touchdown,
and I mean I have a sensitive side and emotional side,
but not necessarily when I'm watching and I was like man,
I was just teared up, Oh man, I could. I
(08:34):
mean the the excitement to know that here we go. We, we,
we are on our way to doing really good things,
God willing, of course. I believe in that and it
was such an emotional time. So you know, it's gonna
be really fun to watch how you guys navigate through
it all and it's it's such an exciting part of
of putting together a team as getting that quarterback in
(08:54):
place and and and growing with them. So you've been
involved with a lot of really power packed and talented
football teams, you know, we talked about him earlier, with
Baltimore and Philly, Chicago, a lot of really good football players.
You've won a lot of games in your tenure prior
to becoming a GM so how does that feel? Again?
My own experience was I remember being with New England
(09:16):
and there was almost an addiction to winning. The more
you won, the more you appreciate it and the more
you expected it. And then you get into your own
rebuild situation, like I did back in Oh eight when
I first got to Atlanta, it was complicated in that
way because you're so used to winning so often. You
have a situation right now where you know you've had
some challenging years as far as the organization has that
(09:39):
challenging years. How do you keep that group? You're the
group that you kept him, by the way, which we
can talk a little bit about as well. You did
not come in here slashing and burning. You kept virtually
everyone on the staff, right on the personnel and the
football ops staff. Tell me a little bit about your
decision to do that and tell me how you keep
you keep morale up and everyone folk is and driving
(10:01):
forward after some challenging years. You know, taking this position,
like anything in life, especially with our background personnel, we
do a lot of home or we we die. We
make a ton of calls and tell me about the organization,
tell me about ownership, tell me about the people that
are already in place and every call I made, Joe,
so many good people in this organization. You're really gonna
(10:23):
love Um working with some of these guys. This this
is a good place, trust me. And so what I
wanted to do was come in and not slashing burn,
like you said, to come in and and give these
guys an opportunity, give these guys um a voice, to
really to to really prove you know that, uh, they're
(10:44):
gonna be able to adjust in this new system. And Man,
it was the last two years have been have been
really impressive for me to see how these guys have adjusted.
have adapted. Um, they have a voice. Um, there there's
an excitement when they're talking about these guys because ultimately, Thomas,
like we're you know, we're trying to build this consensus
on on on the type of person and player we're
(11:06):
trying to bring in, but ultimately we want to get
guys that every the whole building is excited about getting,
like you know. Okay, all right, who? Who? Tell me
the guy you want. I want Michael Carter. Why do
you want Michael Carter? And you go into all the explosiveness,
the versatility. Does this. He loves football, and so like
giving giving them the voice so that they can essentially
stay on the table. Um, that that's important, right, that's that.
(11:29):
That inclusion, that inclusion and and and the expectation of
the candor, and so giving them that opportunity. And so
you know, you're right on the first part of your question. Um,
my first year in the National Football League was two
thousand as a personalysis. Um, I'm washing cars and picking
up guy's airport and Lo and behold, we win a
(11:50):
super bowl. So I didn't go through that struggle as
a young guy when they moved from Cleveland and had
to really build the thing back up, and so you're
you just reverse engineer and like why, why was this
organization so successful? And so you take those points and,
(12:11):
like so many things in life, it's the people, right
and the type of person you're bringing in, and so
you make it about the people and, Um, you take
you take all the things that you felt made Baltimore successful.
What what you felt gave us a chance to win
the super bowl in two thousand and seventeen in Philadelphia? Um,
(12:33):
what were those traits? What were those qualities? When you're
building a team, and we've tried to implement that here
and obviously, um an enormous task trying to turn turn
the ship around, but I really do feel like we
have the right people to do it. And your personality,
you have a pretty even keeled personality. I mean, you're
tough ass at the core, but you haven't even keeled personality.
(12:54):
You have high expectations right. One of the things that
I've really tried to work on in my own personal
life as a general manager and as a leader is
my expectations were so high for myself and of myself
that I realized they were that much higher for everyone
else around me too, and at times that's complicated. Giving
(13:15):
your personality. However, if if someone wasn't, you know, this
is an old fashioned line, towing the line, if someone,
someone wasn't truly walking the walk that you wanted them
to walk, are you? Would you be a quick move
guy on that person, knowing that they're not fitting in?
Or would you? Are you a person that gives um
(13:35):
people like that an opportunity to really fit in? Like,
what is your approach that? You know, I think each,
each situation is different. I think it would depends on
how egregious this act or how how the behavior was.
But for me, I'm not a guy that is a
embarrass someone in front of the group type of guy.
That's not my style. Um, I'm the guy that that
brings you in one on one. Um, Hey, you're not
(13:58):
meeting these expectations. Let's talk about let's talk about how.
You know what what what we need from you. Um,
you know, do you feel like do you do you
agree with what I'm saying? You know, because ultimately it's
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna just call someone and
say what I need from it and then not them,
not say, yeah, I agree with what you're saying, you know,
because I want to know what they think I'm off.
(14:19):
Tell me, tell me why I'm off. Like, I want
to know these things and so let's let's talk about it.
So I think for me that comes Um very often
in that in that one on one situation. That's an
admirable approach. Right. Too often people in your role, and
formerly my role, I think we get to a spot
sometimes where we think we have it figured out and
(14:40):
that you can keep that in check and understand, like,
let's talk through this and let's make sure that we
are on the same wavelength. Basically what you're saying. You
do give people opportunity to improve incorrect, and I think
that is again, it's such an admirable spot to be in.
In today's world, it's different. Right, years and years ago,
twenty and thirty year as ago, that wasn't the the
(15:01):
approach to leadership. Yeah, and I think I'm lucky because,
trust me, Ozzy KNEWSOM had plenty of reasons to get
rid of my ass the first two years. You know
some things that I screwed up, but he wasn't. He
was patient and that that's Azzy to his core. He's
patient and he's he's never gonna let an emotion dictated decision.
And so you try, you try to be like that,
(15:21):
even though we know it's hard to keep emotions out
of this game, especially in this game Um. But you
never want to make a decision, especially that magnitude, where
you're bringing, you're you're letting, you're gonna let someone go um,
without a very pragmatic approach. Yeah, that's very good. So
if you were to share a piece of advice with
like a rising executive about maybe your past and what
(15:43):
you what you think is a really important piece of
advice as they're growing through their formative years, and I'm
talking before they got to the NFL. I'm talking about
maybe our kids age or the teenagers of the world
who are looking and thinking they wanted to run an organization.
How would you advise them? What would the key piece
(16:03):
of advice you know? To me I think self awareness
is such a key thing in any walcal life and
its success in any business, whether it's whether it's business
or sports, you know, have having self awareness and knowing
what your strengths and weaknesses are right. So, Um, you know,
if you're, if you're admin guy that's trying to get
into overseeing all personnel, you work on your weaknesses, work
(16:25):
and work on your evaluations, work on work, work on.
You know, if you're, if you're a college guy like
I was coming up the ranks on the college side,
you work on your pro evaluations, get to know more
about the operations side, the Admin side. So no have
the self awareness to know what your strengths are. Can
always continue to work on those, but really attack, attack
the things that you don't do every day. You know,
(16:47):
it's interesting you say that because too often, maybe again
twenty and thirty years ago, was like my opic football.
You Focus, you just evaluate players. And one of the
things that I realized that I would have done differently
I would have expanded my horizons a little bit more
in the time that we had. Of course we had
to be focused on what we needed to focus on,
but we still had pockets of time that we could
(17:10):
have continued to professionally develop and grow, and I believe
I would have spent more time on some of the
bigger picture elements of building a team. Um along the way,
Um and I think I would. I think that's what
you're saying. I think making sure that people really embrace
the journey and can really learn, not just on a
value evaluating the O and d line, that they truly
(17:33):
there are so many other things that you can learn right,
broaden the horizons and we're we're when you're involved with
an organization. There's so much at our fingertips that so
many people don't have an opportunity. Again, taking advantage of
it is really big. So so joe. You have what's called,
you know, fifty three. We talked about it often in football.
(17:53):
Sometimes it's worth talking about other times it's not worth
talking about. Fifty three, ultimately, is final football say on
the roster Um. Interestingly enough, I've I've had fifty three
with Mike Smith in my first seven years with the
Falcons and then when Dan Quinn came on, we gave
the head coach three. You have fifty three. If you
(18:14):
were again to advise young up and coming general managers
about dealing with that topic, how would you advise them? Yeah,
I think my advice would be the fifty three means
nothing if if you can't collaborate, if you can't if
you can't work hand in hand with this, uh, with
this this coach. To me, Um, you know, if you,
(18:36):
if you need to hold an org chart over someone's
head all the time, it's probably not gonna work out right. So, Um,
the most important thing is this, the communication piece that
we always we always bring up and and the and
the ability to collaborate and have these honest conversations. Well,
I think you have such a firm grasp of that
and I think too often I hear people, you know,
(18:58):
moaning about it. They want, they don't want and in
the end you're you're so right. If that became contentious,
I think you're you're you're doomed for failure. As far
as that partnership goes. You have such a great reputation
around the league, Joe, for being respected by coaches, and
that's a that's an important thing as a team builder
and as a general manager. People respect you because you
(19:21):
respect them. You respect how they approached the game as
a coach. You've been around, again, some great coaches, as
you have team builders. You have a really good understanding
of that, the importance of that relationship, having been around
Ozzy and Howie and people pairing together right because the
GM head coaching relationship is vital. You've been through one
(19:41):
with with Adam gaze now and you're now with Um,
with Robert Sala and do you have a feeling and
a and a stance on how you believe that relationship
should be between GM and head coach? Yeah, you know,
just just in my years and and and seeing Ozzy's
relationship with with coach bill at Cozzi's relationship with coach
(20:02):
hardball Um, how is relationship with coach Peterson Um? That
there has to be there has to be trust. Obviously
there has to be trust. I mean I feel like
the two most important relationships and in the organization are
the head coach and the quarterback, the head coach and GM,
and you can also include the head coach and and
the gens relationship with the owner. Like those are are
(20:24):
probably the most important relationships in the building. But it
all has to be based around trust and communication, constant communication,
constant community, good and bad, and you you this is
probably a good segue into people often talk about putting
together the staffs and I would say here, and I
believe this, and I would say respectfully to the ownership
(20:45):
that is listening here putting together that coaching staff, of
course starting with the head coach, but your coordinators and
your position coaches are vital to the success of the
team and it's not just a flippant, you know, putting
together a group because you know head coaches want this
guy and this guy because they're loyal to him. It's
making sure that you put together the right coaches. They're
(21:06):
gonna help your your talent thrive. That is that is
so important. How involved are you personally in the construction
of the coaching staff along with Robert Coming into this year? Yeah,
I thought one of the coolest things, Um, in talking
with coach throughout, throughout the interview process, was just his
thoughtfulness on and his approach on on building his staff
(21:27):
and and and every every detail, Um, and every personality
that he was going to bring in the building. So
so for me, Um, I just feel like things can
really get off the tracks if if the GM is
pushing pushing people on the on the head coach of staff.
So for me, if I can be a resource, Um,
(21:49):
if I've worked with the coach and I can give
the head coach an opinion if he's thinking about one
coach versus the other and I can give him an
opinion on on you know what I thought how that
coach developed play yours and Um, you know, I'm there
to be that resource, but I'm not. I'm not there
to force, to force any coach down, down another coach's throat. Agree,
(22:11):
and I think having candor to be able to talk
about the coaches just like I I've always expected the
head coach that I was pairing with to be very
honest with me about some of the people in Football
Administration or scouting staff. I remember pushing both Mike Smith
and Dan Quinn very directly. Tell me if you don't
think someone is living up to the standard of this organization.
(22:33):
I'm not offended. Let's talk about it. Ultimately it will
be my choice as a general manager who and what
director I want around me, or whoever it may be
on the scouting side, and it's the same on the
coaching side. But I want to be able to have
those conversations and then ultimately it is the coaches. Uh,
it's it's their duty, of course. And and then I
guess the next question would be the same way with
(22:54):
your owner. Your owner has a really good understanding, correct
of letting the head coach. Take that ball and run
with it. As that correct. Absolutely so, which leads me
into my next question. If you had a group of
owners who are asking you to humbly advise them on
exactly what you feel again, how would you say you
think it's important to put that GM head coaching relationship
(23:16):
together at the top? Yeah, that's a great question, I think.
I think what what you're trying to do is you're trying,
obviously we're in this business to win championships, Um, and
the culture of each organization is different based on the owner,
but that that relationship has to be one of the
strongest relationships of the buildings. It just has to be so. Um,
(23:39):
you know, the the GM, the GM's role. Um, he
has to be there. There has to be shared beliefs,
at the end of the day, on what's important to
a successful team and you know, you go through the
interview process with the GM to determine what his values
are and try to match him up with the with
the head coaches. Do you think that an ownership owner
(24:01):
and or an ownership group should believe in the people
that they have at that spot and give them the
proverbial keys to do their job and of course always
have their opinion because it's their their football team. But
do you think that's really important or or do you
think or do you think the the owner still has um,
(24:23):
still should be in a spot where they are giving directive?
Do you want to steer clear of that? No, no, no,
I don't. I feel like it's a it's a column
Coll and Pale Line that he used to say. I
serve at the serve at the pleasure of the president,
you know. So, Um, at the end of the day,
we serve at the pleasure of the owners. So the owner,
the owner, Um. There needs to be some a sense
(24:45):
of direction on on what can you know, what are
the most important things culturally that you want to add
to the franchise? Um. So I think it comes back
to candor comes back to communicative communication, for sure, and
being just being direct, to be able to share what's
what's real and what's right and and hopefully you can,
you know, circumvent the issues that that would present themselves
(25:09):
by being very communicative. And I think you know, obviously
you are that person, and I think that's what you
know will help make this place thrive and you'll continue
to thrive in your situation. So you're a very bright
and thoughtful person. Um, you have a really good understanding,
as we talked a little bit earlier, about making sure
you're treating people around you in the in the right
way and you know your thoughtful side makes me want
(25:33):
to ask you what are you most encouraged about going
into the next five or ten years in our league? Yeah,
I think, I think you know some of the some
of the moves that you've seen recently and you know, uh,
think about George Peyton and the Broncos and Um, you
know they're they're elevating females in the football ops world,
(25:53):
in personnel world. I think that's I think that's outstanding.
I think that's Um, that's something that we we tried
to do in Philadelphia. I know they're doing it in Philadelphia.
Know how he's doing in Philadelphia and you know, that's
that's something that we're we're we're rolling with here and Um,
you know, I just think that there's a unique perspective
(26:14):
and insight, Um, that that that comes that comes from Um,
just different viewpoints. Um. So I think I'm I'm really,
I'm really encouraged by that and it's something that we're
that's important to us as well in New York. So
the League is making some major strides. Still quite a
(26:34):
ways to go, and that's respectfully, of course, your your
organization and where you're going and where the League is going.
And you know, we could sit there and ask you,
you know, give me, give me the names of your
your you know, underrepresented rising stars, and the reality is
you have some really talented people here, people of Color
and women within your organization that will thrive, hopefully in
(26:58):
many years to come, that you're really excited about out
without getting into a ton of detail about that, that's
got to be exciting for you, knowing that you're going
to do your part in helping these people grow and
evolve as potential general managers are high level executives in
this league. Yeah, I mean there's you want. You want
to help, you want to help players achieve their goals.
(27:18):
You want to help the people in your department achieve
their goals too. And and ultimately, I can remember saying
one of our one of our meetings with the group,
like I hope that there's ten journal managers in here
and I hope that you're all way better than me. Like,
if I can, I want to help you guys achieve
that goal. Um, you know, and uh, let's let's, let's
work together, let's have fun, let's Uh, let roll up,
(27:40):
roll our sleeves up and get this thing going. So
now I think, I think every every Um, good leaders
should strive for that right. I think that, Um, that's
such a cool legacy to to leave if you have.
I think of Bill Walsh and I think a certain
some of these elite leaders in the game of football.
And how many, how many great coaches and personnelity people
(28:03):
came from that branch and Um, you know, and never
had the opportunity to meet coach Wallace, but I got
imagine that was such a unbelievable accomplishment for him. Oh yeah,
I sit there and I think about it. Without getting
a ton of detail about this, in October when I
got fired, I was in such a spot where I
was so ready thirteen years in. I was at a
(28:25):
really interesting mentoring mindset spot and and and I really
wanted to continue to help people grow and like that
it was taken from me. Um Again, I'm not crying
in my in my soup, so to speak. I just
that was where my head was that many years in
I thought I'm ready to really continue to help a
lot of people grow and unfortunately, you know, it didn't happen.
(28:50):
But I think about it now in a lot of
ways and I'm hoping to, in my own way, outside
of being involved with the team, be able to continue
to help people, you know, grow and and learn and
and share, or what I think you know. We've we
learn a lot in this business as we're going and
we learned quickly and uh, to be able to be
in that spot. I guess one of the pieces of
advice that I would give to people that are in
(29:10):
your your role right now, uh, five, seven, ten years in,
really start looking at that at a lot earlier age
than in your thirteenth year, because I think we can
provide so much Um to so many great people, not
only not only, you know, in the diversity and inclusion side,
but at so many levels within an organization. And your
(29:32):
organization is going to be so incredibly fortunate to be
around you in the years to come, given the person
you are and the soulful person you are. I mean,
I love that. I think it's the way to do it.
You're still again, you're still so driven and focused, but
to be able to have that side where you can
understand and help share and help people grow is wildly, Um, again, admirable.
(29:54):
So what's your belief, Joe, regarding life balance as a
general manager in the National Football League? Yeah, it's tough, right, Um,
it's something, it's something that's, uh, that a lot of
people struggle with with and so you get in this mode,
you take this job and you're, like I said before,
you're trying to turn turn this giant ship around, and
(30:15):
that's your you almost have blinders on. It's like got
that's all your focus turned the changing culture, bringing the players,
you know, coaching staff and whatever it is. And you're
it's easy, it's easy to sometimes, Um, forget about the
major support system you have, um, but that's something that
that we can't ever let happen. And you know, Um incourage,
(30:40):
we encourage all our guys. You don't don't miss a game,
don't miss don't miss a recital. You know, I never,
I never, I never want to be. I never want
to be the the guy that misses the major, the
major life events. So, Um, I mean there's so much
support at at at home with my family and just
you know, this is a tough life, right, and so
(31:00):
not only the hours but you know, for me personally,
we've going from Baltimore to Chicago, Chicago to Philly, Philly
to hear. You know, we move in the family quite
a bit, right, and so, um, that puts a lot
of stress, and so I think it's important to um
to understand that, to Um try to spend as much
time with you, with with your family's possible. One of
(31:23):
the one of the coolest memories I think I'll ever
have is being able to have that first draft at
home with my family right there. I mean that was
one of the coolest things ever. It's never, never how
you pictured your first draft as a general manager to go,
but I couldn't have had a better a better first draft, Um,
(31:44):
in terms of the environment, you know, being at home
with with the ones you love the most. That that
picture of you with your children there and you're, you know,
being amid your family is so embedded in my mind.
Just watching you, watching how proud you were to have
your people around you while you're proud to be making
your first picks to help build a football team. That
(32:06):
was amazing for me. It was that it was on
the opposite side of my career, basically as a general manager,
and it meant the world to me to have my
son Mason beside me, because I've never had an opportunity
to do that. He would pick up phones and yeah,
coach Belijack, Yours, Thomas, or whatever it may have been.
It was. It was a really cool thing, as you know.
So again we're very fortunate to have experienced that. It
(32:26):
was complicated, believe me, but we pulled it off. You're
so busy with this job. Again, there's so much on
your plate. We know it and uh, we at times
think we have a little bit of time to to
find our release. This is some of your releases, you said.
I've often been interested in asking people in your role
do you studied? Have you have you been reading books
(32:49):
in any of your off time to professionally develop, whether
it's leadership or whether it's team building? I'm really curious. Yeah,
so we had quite a few west coast trips this
year and so it was able to read a few
books on the on the trip out, in the trip back. Um,
mainly books on leadership. One of the one of the
books I loved was Um the bio fee on General
(33:11):
George Marshall called soldier and statesmen and uh an outstanding
book just on his principles of leadership. And you know,
one one of the cool principles I thought he had
was candor, and that was his expectation was that every
soldier under his command could speak his mind freely. It
was demanded that he speak his mind freely and if
if there was a if there was a mistake in
(33:33):
this plan, he wanted to know about it. It didn't
it didn't want, he didn't want hindsight to let me
know now, and so I think that's that's one of
that's one of the things that I loved about Ozzie
is that if one of the many is that you had,
you did the work, you had a voice and, um,
that's the expectation here too, is full candor. Full candor
(33:55):
is so important. Do you also believe in the delivery, however,
like you can't just like rough house running in and
bull and China Shop Right now. I think there's there's
a respectful way to to to to present that message. Um,
like you said, you're not gonna come come in and
be disrespectful and be a jerk about it. There's a
(34:15):
there's a right way to present it. And when you
present the right way, I mean how far that goes.
I am a big believer in in semantic responsibility, is
what I like to call it, but I think there's
a way to deliver it and get your point across
much better than if you're, you know, if you're losing
control of course, which you would never have and nor
would I ever have in that situation. So I think
(34:35):
obviously people take the lead. Last question, and I ask
everyone this, if there were to be one question that
you feared that I was going to ask in this
conversation slash interview, what would it be? Well, I would
say since we're out here, and ask me if I
was hunting and killing any animals out here. No, I
(34:57):
would never ask you that because it seems right were
a lot of really good outdoor activity and I'm sure,
I'm sure out here there's probably a lot of fishing
out here right, a lot of fishing, catching release, catching release.
And do you guys shoot skeet out here? What do
you guys doing there? There's, you know, Um out in
the field there. There's a great field for for shooting
(35:17):
clay pigeons. Okay, it's not foul. Yeah, we can. We'll
do the clay pigeons, Clay Pigeons, I get it. Well,
that's that's good. Well, Hey, look, I really appreciate this.
is fantastic. I love your approach and again, you're such
a soulful, soulful person and uh, just knowing how fortunate
these people are to have you around here is is
gonna be so fun to watch over the years you
(35:38):
come and and all the best is you're putting this
together with a new quarterback and a new head coach.
Both of those guys have fantastic energy. I can't wait
to watch you. I appreciate you too. Thank you. Thank you. Okay,
once again, I hope you guys enjoyed that journey with
Joe Douglas. You know, Joe's a Joe's the guy to
do it. He has a big task in front of
(36:00):
him here and in New York, of course, but this
guy is football again, through and through. Having come from
an organization like the Baltimore Ravens. He knows what it
means to build a winner. He knows what it means
to lead properly and appropriately. Um, I think he's the
guy to do it. Keep an eye on Joe Douglas again.
I hope you enjoyed it. As we normally do, let's
(36:22):
let's jet set across the country and uh, let's spend
some time with a guy who truly had a task
in front of him and accomplished the ultimate goal, and
that was winning the Super Bowl. We've been waiting for
this one all season. Let's meet with less sneed out
in Los Angeles. Let's hang out on the beach with
him a little bit and have some great conversation. You'll
(36:44):
get a chance to see what the best general manager
in the National Football League to date has to say
about team building and winning and, honestly, about F M pits.
Enjoy the journey. You have been listening to the GM
journey with Thomas Dimitrov. Continue to follow Thomas as he
(37:05):
interviews GMS from your favorite NFL teams. The GM journey
has been produced by Alan Castenbaum, Thomas demittrop and Octagon Entertainment.
Don't forget to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify
or wherever you get your podcast from. The GM journey
(37:27):
is distributed by the eight side network.
My name is arial custom bound and I am the
founder of fair meals, of five, oh, one, c three
status nonprofit that focuses on easy, healthy and affordable meal
solutions for families of all walks of life. On our website,
fair meals dot org, you can find, free of charge,
tons of tips, tricks and recipes that encompass are three
(00:21):
pillars of health, ease and affordability. To help continue to
make our programming the best he can be, please consider
donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org.
Forward slash donate. All Right, I hope you guys really
enjoyed that time with John Robinson down in that really
(00:43):
sweltering heat of Nashville. I mean it's such a cool place.
John is a cool guy. He's got a lot of ability,
you know, on the field and office field, so to speak,
and he truly, as I mentioned, does have the keys
to the kingdom. They do it the right way in Nashville.
He's got a great relationship with his head coach. He's
(01:04):
pulling the strings. That guy is in control. He owns
that city right now. Thanks a lot again for being
on board with us with John Robinson. Welcome to the
GM journey with Thomas Demittrom, as we do, let's travel
a little bit. Let's go up the east coast, up
the interstate to New York, let's go to jet land,
let's go visit Joe Douglas. He's just such a good guy. Good,
(01:28):
big tough football man, knows his game, knows what he wants.
He's working hard to develop a winner there in New York.
He spent some fantastic time with me, really peaceful time actually,
but very thoughtful time out on woody Johnson's farm, I
hope you guys enjoyed again. He's got some really thoughtful
(01:49):
UH insight on how to lead teams and, you know,
how to be a part of a group that really
respects their leaders. Again, you have to remember Joe Douglas
came from Baltimore. He was a part of one of
the best programs, of course, in our nation, being around
Ozzy Newsom and Eric Da Costa. He's ready to take
(02:09):
on an organization and he's ready to win. I'm cheering
for this guy. This guy is a hell of a
person all right. Here we are Bedminster, New Jersey, in
the middle of what you would not imagine the New
York jets to be about and we're out in the
middle of nature with our great friend Joe Douglas. Really
(02:30):
excited about having him here. Joe, thanks for spending the time.
Awesome to be with you. Thomas. Well, look, we I
was thinking that we were going to be out in
the city somewhere, you know, buildings everywhere and cement everywhere,
and I asked you what was the ideal place for
us to be, sort of representing what you were about,
and you said right here. Where are we? By the way?
We're in Bedminster, NEW JERSEY. Um, so that this is
(02:52):
this is Mr Johnson's farm. Uh, and you wouldn't think
that that. We're forty five minutes away from from New
York City, but we are in UH thousand acres and uh,
this is a great place. You know me growing up
in UH, in eastern Virginia. Um, farmland, produce, farm, rivers, Um, this,
this reminds me of home, you know, being here. Well,
(03:14):
I can only imagine coming out here, getting away from
it all. I mean it's it's busy and there's a
lot going on in that GM roll and of course
I spent a lot of time there. No longer so
I'm able to chill and relax and I'm thinking about
you racing over here to try to meet the deadline,
to get over here at a certain time, and I'm thinking,
God bless you. I remember how that was. You know
the funny, very very funny little story, by the way,
when we were first setting this up and you had
(03:35):
mentioned we're gonna be a, you know, woody's farm, I
thought woody's farm was just some random farm out in
New Jersey that you all used. It wasn't dawning on
me it was woody Johnson and I think, man, how, how?
You know? I was like flighty with that whole thing.
It's just knowing it and seeing what this property is
about and to really dig into this area is must
just really settle your world and and uh, kind of
(03:58):
get you on the straight and narrow when you need
it right. Yeah, it brings brings you back to center.
You know you have a stressful day, uh go home,
get the dog, bring the fish and poll out here
just kind of reconnect with nature and get you, get
you back to center. So let's let's dig into this
a little bit. Nineteen years in the League before getting
your general manager spot right, a lot of hard work
(04:18):
along the way. I empathize you with you at a
lot of levels because it took me a long time
to get to where I was going and I and
I value that, I'm sure you do. You know that
you went through so many levels to get to where
you are. You didn't just, you know, jump into a
spot and get lucky. It took a while and you
you have been around a lot of really talented football people.
(04:40):
You finally got your opportunity two years ago. You've spent
amazing time with some amazing football people. To name two,
Ozzy newsome and Howie Roseman, two people that have a
lot of great respect around the league. Could you please
first share, just summarize or classify your leaderships? I'll and
(05:00):
then share a little bit about both Ozzie and Howie
and what you learned, if you were to take away
a lesson learned from both of them from a leadership standpoint,
what that would be? Yeah, I mean, obviously fifteen years
with Ozzy in Baltimore, three years with Howie in Philadelphia,
unbelievable experiences. I'm so blessed. But just my my own
leadership style, Um, I would describe it as as inclusive,
(05:25):
trying to transparency, Um and and trying to communicate as
much as possible. And I think, I think two great
leaders I've been around. You brought up Aussi Um. To me,
the greatest leaders aren't, aren't the ones that have to
coerce you under doing something, or maybe they give you
a right, right talk and that wears off, I feel like,
(05:46):
especially when you talk about a guy like Ozzy k
newsom Ozzy, Ozzy was was the person that you just
never wanted to let let him down. You know, we've
we've all been around those types of leaders growing up,
you know, whether it's in life, in sports, and so
he believed in you so much and he he gave
you all the tools to be as successful as you
(06:06):
could be and you never wanted to let him down.
And then with Howie Um, so, having those fifteen years
in Baltimore with Azzy then going to Philadelphia with Howie
Um just just his creative, his creativeness, his his outside
the box thinking. I think I've I've tried to pull
a little bit from from really those two places and
(06:28):
UH and try to take it here. How he's got
a really open mind, right, always on the front edge,
and I and I do believe in front edge, I
believe and being aggressive. I believe in emerging technology. I
know you and I have talked about over the years,
I before we were GMS and as we were GM's.
We've we've been able to talk about that. I think
it's such an important understanding of always making sure that
(06:49):
you're near the front end of the curve. Not Always,
of course, um, but understanding that it is important and,
of course, how he is that and that's that's been
fun to communicate with him over the years that way.
Zack Wilson, right, yeah, talk to me a little bit
about that, that choice in that process. Again, knowing this,
this guy is full of excitement, he is full of talent.
(07:10):
I mean it's got to be exciting for you right now.
Oh Man, Um, you know just just that, like I
said earlier, when we were when we were able to
get together and have those evaluations and come together as
a group, and it was amazing to see, Um, how
similar that these reports and rankings were on on quite
a few guys. And you know, when we get to
(07:31):
Zach Um, you can see people light up when they're
talking about him and you know just the way he
throws the ball how it comes off his hands, how
pure it is. Um, you know, just just the tape
and then and then we take the time to dive
in on these videos and our scouts dive into the
character and we get to know more about the person.
So h you know, by the time that you know
(07:53):
we're we're we're getting the draft night. You know, everyone's
just just excited to just turn this card in. Let's go,
let's get to work. Uh. There's so much emotion involved
because you put your heart and soul into it right
on the evaluation and all of the discussions. And I
remember personally when when Matt Ryan threw his first past.
I remember being there and there were a lot of
there were a lot of naysayers. It's just the way
(08:14):
it is, right, it doesn't matter. There were a lot
of naysayers and I remember I was standing up with
Arthur and we were watching the very first throw he made.
It was a strike to Michael Jenkins for a touchdown,
and I mean I have a sensitive side and emotional side,
but not necessarily when I'm watching and I was like man,
I was just teared up, Oh man, I could. I
(08:34):
mean the the excitement to know that here we go. We, we,
we are on our way to doing really good things,
God willing, of course. I believe in that and it
was such an emotional time. So you know, it's gonna
be really fun to watch how you guys navigate through
it all and it's it's such an exciting part of
of putting together a team as getting that quarterback in
(08:54):
place and and and growing with them. So you've been
involved with a lot of really power packed and talented
football teams, you know, we talked about him earlier, with
Baltimore and Philly, Chicago, a lot of really good football players.
You've won a lot of games in your tenure prior
to becoming a GM so how does that feel? Again?
My own experience was I remember being with New England
(09:16):
and there was almost an addiction to winning. The more
you won, the more you appreciate it and the more
you expected it. And then you get into your own
rebuild situation, like I did back in Oh eight when
I first got to Atlanta, it was complicated in that
way because you're so used to winning so often. You
have a situation right now where you know you've had
some challenging years as far as the organization has that
(09:39):
challenging years. How do you keep that group? You're the
group that you kept him, by the way, which we
can talk a little bit about as well. You did
not come in here slashing and burning. You kept virtually
everyone on the staff, right on the personnel and the
football ops staff. Tell me a little bit about your
decision to do that and tell me how you keep
you keep morale up and everyone folk is and driving
(10:01):
forward after some challenging years. You know, taking this position,
like anything in life, especially with our background personnel, we
do a lot of home or we we die. We
make a ton of calls and tell me about the organization,
tell me about ownership, tell me about the people that
are already in place and every call I made, Joe,
so many good people in this organization. You're really gonna
(10:23):
love Um working with some of these guys. This this
is a good place, trust me. And so what I
wanted to do was come in and not slashing burn,
like you said, to come in and and give these
guys an opportunity, give these guys um a voice, to
really to to really prove you know that, uh, they're
(10:44):
gonna be able to adjust in this new system. And Man,
it was the last two years have been have been
really impressive for me to see how these guys have adjusted.
have adapted. Um, they have a voice. Um, there there's
an excitement when they're talking about these guys because ultimately, Thomas,
like we're you know, we're trying to build this consensus
on on on the type of person and player we're
(11:06):
trying to bring in, but ultimately we want to get
guys that every the whole building is excited about getting,
like you know. Okay, all right, who? Who? Tell me
the guy you want. I want Michael Carter. Why do
you want Michael Carter? And you go into all the explosiveness,
the versatility. Does this. He loves football, and so like
giving giving them the voice so that they can essentially
stay on the table. Um, that that's important, right, that's that.
(11:29):
That inclusion, that inclusion and and and the expectation of
the candor, and so giving them that opportunity. And so
you know, you're right on the first part of your question. Um,
my first year in the National Football League was two
thousand as a personalysis. Um, I'm washing cars and picking
up guy's airport and Lo and behold, we win a
(11:50):
super bowl. So I didn't go through that struggle as
a young guy when they moved from Cleveland and had
to really build the thing back up, and so you're
you just reverse engineer and like why, why was this
organization so successful? And so you take those points and,
(12:11):
like so many things in life, it's the people, right
and the type of person you're bringing in, and so
you make it about the people and, Um, you take
you take all the things that you felt made Baltimore successful.
What what you felt gave us a chance to win
the super bowl in two thousand and seventeen in Philadelphia? Um,
(12:33):
what were those traits? What were those qualities? When you're
building a team, and we've tried to implement that here
and obviously, um an enormous task trying to turn turn
the ship around, but I really do feel like we
have the right people to do it. And your personality,
you have a pretty even keeled personality. I mean, you're
tough ass at the core, but you haven't even keeled personality.
(12:54):
You have high expectations right. One of the things that
I've really tried to work on in my own personal
life as a general manager and as a leader is
my expectations were so high for myself and of myself
that I realized they were that much higher for everyone
else around me too, and at times that's complicated. Giving
(13:15):
your personality. However, if if someone wasn't, you know, this
is an old fashioned line, towing the line, if someone,
someone wasn't truly walking the walk that you wanted them
to walk, are you? Would you be a quick move
guy on that person, knowing that they're not fitting in?
Or would you? Are you a person that gives um
(13:35):
people like that an opportunity to really fit in? Like,
what is your approach that? You know, I think each,
each situation is different. I think it would depends on
how egregious this act or how how the behavior was.
But for me, I'm not a guy that is a
embarrass someone in front of the group type of guy.
That's not my style. Um, I'm the guy that that
brings you in one on one. Um, Hey, you're not
(13:58):
meeting these expectations. Let's talk about let's talk about how.
You know what what what we need from you. Um,
you know, do you feel like do you do you
agree with what I'm saying? You know, because ultimately it's
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna just call someone and
say what I need from it and then not them,
not say, yeah, I agree with what you're saying, you know,
because I want to know what they think I'm off.
(14:19):
Tell me, tell me why I'm off. Like, I want
to know these things and so let's let's talk about it.
So I think for me that comes Um very often
in that in that one on one situation. That's an
admirable approach. Right. Too often people in your role, and
formerly my role, I think we get to a spot
sometimes where we think we have it figured out and
(14:40):
that you can keep that in check and understand, like,
let's talk through this and let's make sure that we
are on the same wavelength. Basically what you're saying. You
do give people opportunity to improve incorrect, and I think
that is again, it's such an admirable spot to be in.
In today's world, it's different. Right, years and years ago,
twenty and thirty year as ago, that wasn't the the
(15:01):
approach to leadership. Yeah, and I think I'm lucky because,
trust me, Ozzy KNEWSOM had plenty of reasons to get
rid of my ass the first two years. You know
some things that I screwed up, but he wasn't. He
was patient and that that's Azzy to his core. He's
patient and he's he's never gonna let an emotion dictated decision.
And so you try, you try to be like that,
(15:21):
even though we know it's hard to keep emotions out
of this game, especially in this game Um. But you
never want to make a decision, especially that magnitude, where
you're bringing, you're you're letting, you're gonna let someone go um,
without a very pragmatic approach. Yeah, that's very good. So
if you were to share a piece of advice with
like a rising executive about maybe your past and what
(15:43):
you what you think is a really important piece of
advice as they're growing through their formative years, and I'm
talking before they got to the NFL. I'm talking about
maybe our kids age or the teenagers of the world
who are looking and thinking they wanted to run an organization.
How would you advise them? What would the key piece
(16:03):
of advice you know? To me I think self awareness
is such a key thing in any walcal life and
its success in any business, whether it's whether it's business
or sports, you know, have having self awareness and knowing
what your strengths and weaknesses are right. So, Um, you know,
if you're, if you're admin guy that's trying to get
into overseeing all personnel, you work on your weaknesses, work
(16:25):
and work on your evaluations, work on work, work on.
You know, if you're, if you're a college guy like
I was coming up the ranks on the college side,
you work on your pro evaluations, get to know more
about the operations side, the Admin side. So no have
the self awareness to know what your strengths are. Can
always continue to work on those, but really attack, attack
the things that you don't do every day. You know,
(16:47):
it's interesting you say that because too often, maybe again
twenty and thirty years ago, was like my opic football.
You Focus, you just evaluate players. And one of the
things that I realized that I would have done differently
I would have expanded my horizons a little bit more
in the time that we had. Of course we had
to be focused on what we needed to focus on,
but we still had pockets of time that we could
(17:10):
have continued to professionally develop and grow, and I believe
I would have spent more time on some of the
bigger picture elements of building a team. Um along the way,
Um and I think I would. I think that's what
you're saying. I think making sure that people really embrace
the journey and can really learn, not just on a
value evaluating the O and d line, that they truly
(17:33):
there are so many other things that you can learn right,
broaden the horizons and we're we're when you're involved with
an organization. There's so much at our fingertips that so
many people don't have an opportunity. Again, taking advantage of
it is really big. So so joe. You have what's called,
you know, fifty three. We talked about it often in football.
(17:53):
Sometimes it's worth talking about other times it's not worth
talking about. Fifty three, ultimately, is final football say on
the roster Um. Interestingly enough, I've I've had fifty three
with Mike Smith in my first seven years with the
Falcons and then when Dan Quinn came on, we gave
the head coach three. You have fifty three. If you
(18:14):
were again to advise young up and coming general managers
about dealing with that topic, how would you advise them? Yeah,
I think my advice would be the fifty three means
nothing if if you can't collaborate, if you can't if
you can't work hand in hand with this, uh, with
this this coach. To me, Um, you know, if you,
(18:36):
if you need to hold an org chart over someone's
head all the time, it's probably not gonna work out right. So, Um,
the most important thing is this, the communication piece that
we always we always bring up and and the and
the ability to collaborate and have these honest conversations. Well,
I think you have such a firm grasp of that
and I think too often I hear people, you know,
(18:58):
moaning about it. They want, they don't want and in
the end you're you're so right. If that became contentious,
I think you're you're you're doomed for failure. As far
as that partnership goes. You have such a great reputation
around the league, Joe, for being respected by coaches, and
that's a that's an important thing as a team builder
and as a general manager. People respect you because you
(19:21):
respect them. You respect how they approached the game as
a coach. You've been around, again, some great coaches, as
you have team builders. You have a really good understanding
of that, the importance of that relationship, having been around
Ozzy and Howie and people pairing together right because the
GM head coaching relationship is vital. You've been through one
(19:41):
with with Adam gaze now and you're now with Um,
with Robert Sala and do you have a feeling and
a and a stance on how you believe that relationship
should be between GM and head coach? Yeah, you know,
just just in my years and and and seeing Ozzy's
relationship with with coach bill at Cozzi's relationship with coach
(20:02):
hardball Um, how is relationship with coach Peterson Um? That
there has to be there has to be trust. Obviously
there has to be trust. I mean I feel like
the two most important relationships and in the organization are
the head coach and the quarterback, the head coach and GM,
and you can also include the head coach and and
the gens relationship with the owner. Like those are are
(20:24):
probably the most important relationships in the building. But it
all has to be based around trust and communication, constant communication,
constant community, good and bad, and you you this is
probably a good segue into people often talk about putting
together the staffs and I would say here, and I
believe this, and I would say respectfully to the ownership
(20:45):
that is listening here putting together that coaching staff, of
course starting with the head coach, but your coordinators and
your position coaches are vital to the success of the
team and it's not just a flippant, you know, putting
together a group because you know head coaches want this
guy and this guy because they're loyal to him. It's
making sure that you put together the right coaches. They're
(21:06):
gonna help your your talent thrive. That is that is
so important. How involved are you personally in the construction
of the coaching staff along with Robert Coming into this year? Yeah,
I thought one of the coolest things, Um, in talking
with coach throughout, throughout the interview process, was just his
thoughtfulness on and his approach on on building his staff
(21:27):
and and and every every detail, Um, and every personality
that he was going to bring in the building. So
so for me, Um, I just feel like things can
really get off the tracks if if the GM is
pushing pushing people on the on the head coach of staff.
So for me, if I can be a resource, Um,
(21:49):
if I've worked with the coach and I can give
the head coach an opinion if he's thinking about one
coach versus the other and I can give him an
opinion on on you know what I thought how that
coach developed play yours and Um, you know, I'm there
to be that resource, but I'm not. I'm not there
to force, to force any coach down, down another coach's throat. Agree,
(22:11):
and I think having candor to be able to talk
about the coaches just like I I've always expected the
head coach that I was pairing with to be very
honest with me about some of the people in Football
Administration or scouting staff. I remember pushing both Mike Smith
and Dan Quinn very directly. Tell me if you don't
think someone is living up to the standard of this organization.
(22:33):
I'm not offended. Let's talk about it. Ultimately it will
be my choice as a general manager who and what
director I want around me, or whoever it may be
on the scouting side, and it's the same on the
coaching side. But I want to be able to have
those conversations and then ultimately it is the coaches. Uh,
it's it's their duty, of course. And and then I
guess the next question would be the same way with
(22:54):
your owner. Your owner has a really good understanding, correct
of letting the head coach. Take that ball and run
with it. As that correct. Absolutely so, which leads me
into my next question. If you had a group of
owners who are asking you to humbly advise them on
exactly what you feel again, how would you say you
think it's important to put that GM head coaching relationship
(23:16):
together at the top? Yeah, that's a great question, I think.
I think what what you're trying to do is you're trying,
obviously we're in this business to win championships, Um, and
the culture of each organization is different based on the owner,
but that that relationship has to be one of the
strongest relationships of the buildings. It just has to be so. Um,
(23:39):
you know, the the GM, the GM's role. Um, he
has to be there. There has to be shared beliefs,
at the end of the day, on what's important to
a successful team and you know, you go through the
interview process with the GM to determine what his values
are and try to match him up with the with
the head coaches. Do you think that an ownership owner
(24:01):
and or an ownership group should believe in the people
that they have at that spot and give them the
proverbial keys to do their job and of course always
have their opinion because it's their their football team. But
do you think that's really important or or do you
think or do you think the the owner still has um,
(24:23):
still should be in a spot where they are giving directive?
Do you want to steer clear of that? No, no, no,
I don't. I feel like it's a it's a column
Coll and Pale Line that he used to say. I
serve at the serve at the pleasure of the president,
you know. So, Um, at the end of the day,
we serve at the pleasure of the owners. So the owner,
the owner, Um. There needs to be some a sense
(24:45):
of direction on on what can you know, what are
the most important things culturally that you want to add
to the franchise? Um. So I think it comes back
to candor comes back to communicative communication, for sure, and
being just being direct, to be able to share what's
what's real and what's right and and hopefully you can,
you know, circumvent the issues that that would present themselves
(25:09):
by being very communicative. And I think you know, obviously
you are that person, and I think that's what you
know will help make this place thrive and you'll continue
to thrive in your situation. So you're a very bright
and thoughtful person. Um, you have a really good understanding,
as we talked a little bit earlier, about making sure
you're treating people around you in the in the right
way and you know your thoughtful side makes me want
(25:33):
to ask you what are you most encouraged about going
into the next five or ten years in our league? Yeah,
I think, I think you know some of the some
of the moves that you've seen recently and you know, uh,
think about George Peyton and the Broncos and Um, you
know they're they're elevating females in the football ops world,
(25:53):
in personnel world. I think that's I think that's outstanding.
I think that's Um, that's something that we we tried
to do in Philadelphia. I know they're doing it in Philadelphia.
Know how he's doing in Philadelphia and you know, that's
that's something that we're we're we're rolling with here and Um,
you know, I just think that there's a unique perspective
(26:14):
and insight, Um, that that that comes that comes from Um,
just different viewpoints. Um. So I think I'm I'm really,
I'm really encouraged by that and it's something that we're
that's important to us as well in New York. So
the League is making some major strides. Still quite a
(26:34):
ways to go, and that's respectfully, of course, your your
organization and where you're going and where the League is going.
And you know, we could sit there and ask you,
you know, give me, give me the names of your
your you know, underrepresented rising stars, and the reality is
you have some really talented people here, people of Color
and women within your organization that will thrive, hopefully in
(26:58):
many years to come, that you're really excited about out
without getting into a ton of detail about that, that's
got to be exciting for you, knowing that you're going
to do your part in helping these people grow and
evolve as potential general managers are high level executives in
this league. Yeah, I mean there's you want. You want
to help, you want to help players achieve their goals.
(27:18):
You want to help the people in your department achieve
their goals too. And and ultimately, I can remember saying
one of our one of our meetings with the group,
like I hope that there's ten journal managers in here
and I hope that you're all way better than me. Like,
if I can, I want to help you guys achieve
that goal. Um, you know, and uh, let's let's, let's
work together, let's have fun, let's Uh, let roll up,
(27:40):
roll our sleeves up and get this thing going. So
now I think, I think every every Um, good leaders
should strive for that right. I think that, Um, that's
such a cool legacy to to leave if you have.
I think of Bill Walsh and I think a certain
some of these elite leaders in the game of football.
And how many, how many great coaches and personnelity people
(28:03):
came from that branch and Um, you know, and never
had the opportunity to meet coach Wallace, but I got
imagine that was such a unbelievable accomplishment for him. Oh yeah,
I sit there and I think about it. Without getting
a ton of detail about this, in October when I
got fired, I was in such a spot where I
was so ready thirteen years in. I was at a
(28:25):
really interesting mentoring mindset spot and and and I really
wanted to continue to help people grow and like that
it was taken from me. Um Again, I'm not crying
in my in my soup, so to speak. I just
that was where my head was that many years in
I thought I'm ready to really continue to help a
lot of people grow and unfortunately, you know, it didn't happen.
(28:50):
But I think about it now in a lot of
ways and I'm hoping to, in my own way, outside
of being involved with the team, be able to continue
to help people, you know, grow and and learn and
and share, or what I think you know. We've we
learn a lot in this business as we're going and
we learned quickly and uh, to be able to be
in that spot. I guess one of the pieces of
advice that I would give to people that are in
(29:10):
your your role right now, uh, five, seven, ten years in,
really start looking at that at a lot earlier age
than in your thirteenth year, because I think we can
provide so much Um to so many great people, not
only not only, you know, in the diversity and inclusion side,
but at so many levels within an organization. And your
(29:32):
organization is going to be so incredibly fortunate to be
around you in the years to come, given the person
you are and the soulful person you are. I mean,
I love that. I think it's the way to do it.
You're still again, you're still so driven and focused, but
to be able to have that side where you can
understand and help share and help people grow is wildly, Um, again, admirable.
(29:54):
So what's your belief, Joe, regarding life balance as a
general manager in the National Football League? Yeah, it's tough, right, Um,
it's something, it's something that's, uh, that a lot of
people struggle with with and so you get in this mode,
you take this job and you're, like I said before,
you're trying to turn turn this giant ship around, and
(30:15):
that's your you almost have blinders on. It's like got
that's all your focus turned the changing culture, bringing the players,
you know, coaching staff and whatever it is. And you're
it's easy, it's easy to sometimes, Um, forget about the
major support system you have, um, but that's something that
that we can't ever let happen. And you know, Um incourage,
(30:40):
we encourage all our guys. You don't don't miss a game,
don't miss don't miss a recital. You know, I never,
I never, I never want to be. I never want
to be the the guy that misses the major, the
major life events. So, Um, I mean there's so much
support at at at home with my family and just
you know, this is a tough life, right, and so
(31:00):
not only the hours but you know, for me personally,
we've going from Baltimore to Chicago, Chicago to Philly, Philly
to hear. You know, we move in the family quite
a bit, right, and so, um, that puts a lot
of stress, and so I think it's important to um
to understand that, to Um try to spend as much
time with you, with with your family's possible. One of
(31:23):
the one of the coolest memories I think I'll ever
have is being able to have that first draft at
home with my family right there. I mean that was
one of the coolest things ever. It's never, never how
you pictured your first draft as a general manager to go,
but I couldn't have had a better a better first draft, Um,
(31:44):
in terms of the environment, you know, being at home
with with the ones you love the most. That that
picture of you with your children there and you're, you know,
being amid your family is so embedded in my mind.
Just watching you, watching how proud you were to have
your people around you while you're proud to be making
your first picks to help build a football team. That
(32:06):
was amazing for me. It was that it was on
the opposite side of my career, basically as a general manager,
and it meant the world to me to have my
son Mason beside me, because I've never had an opportunity
to do that. He would pick up phones and yeah,
coach Belijack, Yours, Thomas, or whatever it may have been.
It was. It was a really cool thing, as you know.
So again we're very fortunate to have experienced that. It
(32:26):
was complicated, believe me, but we pulled it off. You're
so busy with this job. Again, there's so much on
your plate. We know it and uh, we at times
think we have a little bit of time to to
find our release. This is some of your releases, you said.
I've often been interested in asking people in your role
do you studied? Have you have you been reading books
(32:49):
in any of your off time to professionally develop, whether
it's leadership or whether it's team building? I'm really curious. Yeah,
so we had quite a few west coast trips this
year and so it was able to read a few
books on the on the trip out, in the trip back. Um,
mainly books on leadership. One of the one of the
books I loved was Um the bio fee on General
(33:11):
George Marshall called soldier and statesmen and uh an outstanding
book just on his principles of leadership. And you know,
one one of the cool principles I thought he had
was candor, and that was his expectation was that every
soldier under his command could speak his mind freely. It
was demanded that he speak his mind freely and if
if there was a if there was a mistake in
(33:33):
this plan, he wanted to know about it. It didn't
it didn't want, he didn't want hindsight to let me
know now, and so I think that's that's one of
that's one of the things that I loved about Ozzie
is that if one of the many is that you had,
you did the work, you had a voice and, um,
that's the expectation here too, is full candor. Full candor
(33:55):
is so important. Do you also believe in the delivery, however,
like you can't just like rough house running in and
bull and China Shop Right now. I think there's there's
a respectful way to to to to present that message. Um,
like you said, you're not gonna come come in and
be disrespectful and be a jerk about it. There's a
(34:15):
there's a right way to present it. And when you
present the right way, I mean how far that goes.
I am a big believer in in semantic responsibility, is
what I like to call it, but I think there's
a way to deliver it and get your point across
much better than if you're, you know, if you're losing
control of course, which you would never have and nor
would I ever have in that situation. So I think
(34:35):
obviously people take the lead. Last question, and I ask
everyone this, if there were to be one question that
you feared that I was going to ask in this
conversation slash interview, what would it be? Well, I would
say since we're out here, and ask me if I
was hunting and killing any animals out here. No, I
(34:57):
would never ask you that because it seems right were
a lot of really good outdoor activity and I'm sure,
I'm sure out here there's probably a lot of fishing
out here right, a lot of fishing, catching release, catching release.
And do you guys shoot skeet out here? What do
you guys doing there? There's, you know, Um out in
the field there. There's a great field for for shooting
(35:17):
clay pigeons. Okay, it's not foul. Yeah, we can. We'll
do the clay pigeons, Clay Pigeons, I get it. Well,
that's that's good. Well, Hey, look, I really appreciate this.
is fantastic. I love your approach and again, you're such
a soulful, soulful person and uh, just knowing how fortunate
these people are to have you around here is is
gonna be so fun to watch over the years you
(35:38):
come and and all the best is you're putting this
together with a new quarterback and a new head coach.
Both of those guys have fantastic energy. I can't wait
to watch you. I appreciate you too. Thank you. Thank you. Okay,
once again, I hope you guys enjoyed that journey with
Joe Douglas. You know, Joe's a Joe's the guy to
do it. He has a big task in front of
(36:00):
him here and in New York, of course, but this
guy is football again, through and through. Having come from
an organization like the Baltimore Ravens. He knows what it
means to build a winner. He knows what it means
to lead properly and appropriately. Um, I think he's the
guy to do it. Keep an eye on Joe Douglas again.
I hope you enjoyed it. As we normally do, let's
(36:22):
let's jet set across the country and uh, let's spend
some time with a guy who truly had a task
in front of him and accomplished the ultimate goal, and
that was winning the Super Bowl. We've been waiting for
this one all season. Let's meet with less sneed out
in Los Angeles. Let's hang out on the beach with
him a little bit and have some great conversation. You'll
(36:44):
get a chance to see what the best general manager
in the National Football League to date has to say
about team building and winning and, honestly, about F M pits.
Enjoy the journey. You have been listening to the GM
journey with Thomas Dimitrov. Continue to follow Thomas as he
(37:05):
interviews GMS from your favorite NFL teams. The GM journey
has been produced by Alan Castenbaum, Thomas demittrop and Octagon Entertainment.
Don't forget to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify
or wherever you get your podcast from. The GM journey
(37:27):
is distributed by the eight side network.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.