John Lynch - GM San Francisco

Thomas moves on from Detroit and heads to the West Coast to sit down with NFL Hall of Fame player and GM of the San Francisco Forty Niners. John shares his thoughts on his unconventional journey to the GM seat, his relationship with head coach Kyle Shanahan, and how he believes he was actually a better athlete in baseball.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Arial Custom Baum and I am the
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(00:21):
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donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org. Forward,
slash donate. We moved from Detroit, the motor city, over

(00:41):
to the Golden City, uh, the city by the bay.
I mean all these different NIG names. Welcome to the
GM journey with Thomas demtrof, San Francisco John Lynch. U
To spend some time with John Lynch. Look, this guy
is incredibly rounded and impressive. We know it as a

(01:03):
football player, we know it as a sort of an
academic from Stanford University. He's just one of those guys
you really want to spend time with. Man, the more
you talk with him, the more you appreciate him. This
is a principal guy who really believes in what he
believes in and again, you learn from him at a
lot of levels. Not only learned that he was a

(01:23):
really great football person, of course, and a lot of knowledge,
but of course even a better baseball player. And, Um,
he's the guy. He's that kind of guy. Again, I
can't stress enough. You want to be around you want
to talk to him on the phone. He's the guy
that picks up the phone. He's a guy that will
call you back. He's the guy that recognizes how important
it is to be a good, solid, sound person in

(01:47):
this world. And you'll be really impressed on the other
side of this interview. Enjoy the journey Santa Clara, California,
with John Lynch, Hall of Fame Player, very established ecutive
in the League and, Oh, by the way, has this
unbelievable trait that's able to rouse people into singing God

(02:08):
bless America. How does that happen? You go deep right away.
I'm going. I didn't know you knew that. I think
that just happens out of a love of country. You know,
I've always my my parents. We grew up in San Diego,
big military town, and uh, you know, I think my
parents Um, their their parents, their grandparents, immigrated from Ireland
and I think have been beneficiaries of all that America

(02:31):
has to offer and uh, you know, I think for
all those reasons, just just taught to to love our
country and everything it has to offer, Um, and all
the possibilities. And so yeah, maybe with a few drinks sally,
I get everybody to sing uh, God bless America and
it's it's it's always fun and they I I had

(02:52):
to kind of curtail once I started started stepping in
because then it became the expectation and I can only
break it out every now and then. Every now and then.
You've done your research, Thomas. Well, I honestly I thought
if we were being able to pull it off at
the French laundry, we would have done it. I don't
know if that would have been the appropriate place. Maybe
it would have been. Um. So you've you've you've played
this game a long time. You were so established as

(03:14):
a player and you know, culminated with the induction into
the hall of fame, which is unbelievable as a player.
I'm just very curious. Did you have sites on being
a general manager growing up and and or, if not,
when did this come to your mind about. Wow, I'd
love to run a football team. It's a good question

(03:36):
and it takes a while because it's not a real
simple answer. Um, you know, I think we were talking
before we came on air about the draft. The draft
just happened and you know, the drafts of fun time.
And here's what I remember. I remember being a kid
and Um, like the draft was a big deal in
that in our house my dad had a cup of
coffee with the Pittsburgh steelers in nineteen sixty nine. Was

(03:58):
a fifteenth round draft choice, a lie back or at
a drake and and kind of for parts of two
seasons was on the taxi squad, the equivalent of the
of the practice squad now, and then had to go
make a living, you know. So he wasn't he started
to have kids and had to go make a living.
And so we loved the game of football and uh,
you know, I remember when I was growing up, like

(04:18):
third grade, my dad used to pull me out of
school for the draft. The draft used to be some
during the week a little bit and uh, you know,
we were lynches. We went to school, even when you're sick,
you didn't miss but on the draft day I got
to go home and week my dad and I really
took a lot of joy out of watch in the draft.
So I always kind of had that, you know, when
it evolved to being a player. I got married after

(04:41):
my rookie year and so I've been with Linda for
twenty seven years now. So she took the ride with me,
you know, in the NFL and I remember it used
to frustrated her brother played in the league. She had
four brothers, so she used to football. But, John, are
we really going to watch the seventh round? It's a
nice weekend our kids. I haven't seen you a long time,

(05:01):
but I just enjoyed the draft and I enjoyed kind
of doing what you were doing, forecasting and trying to
think who's the right fit for this team. We get
we get used to this here in Santa Clara, right,
right in the flight patterns, right, yeah, yeah, so it
started like that and then, you know, after a year eleven,
I parted ways with Tampa and found a great home

(05:23):
in Denver. And you know, when I went to Denver
I had stanford connections, like John Elway, and so the
first person, he was no longer playing, but that reached
out to me was John Elway and we had a
lot of connections. We both played football baseball at Stanford.
I was about ten years later. We were in the
same fraternity at Stanford. I happened to play for his
high school coach. He moved down to San Diego. I

(05:46):
was at quarterback. I used to walk around my high
school pigeon toad because I thought if I walked like
John I might play like him. and Um. But sure enough,
when I get to Denver, the first guy to call me,
he's John and just like hey, I'm so thrilled her
with the broncos. If I can do anything to make
your move and your families move, schools, country club, whatever
you need, let me help you. And Uh, we became

(06:07):
good buddies, you know, and we started uh, you know,
and then as I as I retired, we were really
hanging we were playing a lot of golf together. And
then John took the dive. You know, he had been
doing the arena league football, but then he took on
the role with the broncos. And and the first year
it started something like hey, Johnny, why don't you take
the safeties? I'd love another set of eyes. Take the
safeties and just do a rite up on them and

(06:30):
like well, okay, what do you want me to write?
I played safety but I've never done I like the
write up. Just write down what you think of each player.
So he gave me all the equipment and I got
really involved. I called some of my friends in scouting
that I knew and so what are you doing these reports?
And then I kind of made it my own and
I worked really hard at it and John loved what
I gave him. And so the next year he says,

(06:51):
like take all the DVS, safeties corners, and so I
did that and he again was was pleased with what
I gave him. I think he felt like it helped him.
So you know, it kind of was an evolution like that.
Year three it's he and John Fox there together in
Denver and that year he said, Johnny, why don't you

(07:12):
done such a you know a good job and it
feels like you like it. At the time I'm broadcasting
with the NFL on Fox and he said I think
it helps you for your job, and I'm not like
you're absolutely right, it does. It helps me get the
next wave of a players coming in and I really
do enjoy it. Johnny goes well, why don't you do this?
We're having draft meetings, draft prep for the next two months.

(07:32):
You're welcome come sit in the sitting in the room. Man.
And UH, in typical railway fashion, he told nobody at
the at the broncos. So I show up in the
draft room. I'm always on time and I'm sitting in
the draft room when everyone's staring at me like what
the Hell Are you doing here? And I knew them
all because I was living there and I was around,
but they kind of were waiting for me to leave.
And then John said, hey, Johnny's gonna be joining us

(07:54):
for draft prep. And Uh, I sat in and I
was just mesmerized with the whole process. I really found
it to be intriguing. Um, and I remember talking to
John Shortly thereafter and going, man, how are you enjoying this?
And he goes it's full time. I never thought it
would be this much work, but man, it's it's Johnny.
There's a scoreboard again. You're used to having a scoreboard

(08:16):
and I was broadcasting. I was loving it. I got
my football fix. But at the end of the day
you're not winning, you're not losing, you're giving a fist
bump to your partner. It's fun, but it doesn't have that.
And so about that point it kind of triggered. Well,
if there was ever an opportunity that presented itself, this
might be something I want to do, and I wasn't

(08:36):
gonna like leave broadcasting. That was going fairly well at
Fox and I was moving up the ladder kind of
right behind troy there, UM and UH. But then just
kind of like I always thought it might happen, and
at the time the chargers were still in San Diego,
my hometown. Well, if anything ever worked out there, I
didn't have to move my family or Denver after John
was done. If, if they ever wanted to bring me on,

(08:59):
and kind of randomly, you know, I did. You were
with the Falcons and I did your seahawks divisional game
when you guys went to the Super Bowl that year,
and in that game, late in the game, I said,
you know, there's six jobs open in the NFL and
I've I've just been fascinated. I've done a lot of
falcons games this year with Kyle Shanahan and I think

(09:21):
he's leaps and bounds ahead of the curve in terms
of what he's doing as a as a offensive play
caller and somebody ought to hire this guy. And you know,
I think about you guys. Played Green Bay, I believe,
in the championship game and prior to that week, when
he had some time, he called and he said Hey,
my family told me. I don't watch the broadcast, but
my family told me what you said and I'm I

(09:42):
really appreciate that and I said Hey, kyle, I meant it.
I wouldn't have said that, Um, had I not mean it.
And I said, you know, it looks like you're gonna
get one of these things, so I'm pulling for you.
About a week later, I something was bothering me as
I was going to bed and I like my wife
was like something's up with you, what's going on? And
it had become the rumor was out there kyle was

(10:03):
going to get this job, and so I just called
him up and I said, Hey, man, how are you doing, like,
is everything going good? I know we talked last week.
It looks like you're gonna get this niner's job. Is
that true? And he said something. He goes yeah, I'm
just struggling to find someone. I really want a partner
to do this with and I'm struggling to find the
right guy. And out of the blue, I didn't even

(10:23):
intend on saying this, I said, well, what about me?
And he goes, Dude, you got a great job, like
why would you want to do that? You don't want
any part of this, like you get paid well and
you get you know, you work half the year. Like
what are you? What are you talking about? And he
kind of I just kind of laughed it off and
I said No. Seriously, though, if you if you are
going down the road, you go prepare for this championship game,

(10:45):
but if you if you think about it some more,
I might be willing to at least discuss it. About
a week later, it was like the prep was done.
I think it was Friday before your divisional game. Kyle
called me and said Hey, man, Um, I can't stop
thinking about what you said, like if you'd really consider it,
and I go well, like okay, well, I didn't expect

(11:05):
you to say this, and he goes with, there's this
dude named Jed. I remember him saying that would you
call him and talk to him? When it was jed UH.
I think a day later I was on a plane
up here to meet with Jed and then flew across
country to meet with Kyle during that little dead period
and I came out of there with the job offer.
And so that's the story how this came to fruitions. Well, look,

(11:28):
I mean that's a great story and and though you
took a circuitous route maybe, Um, there have been a
few that have done it. John Elway, of course, did
it successfully enough, getting into the into the Super Bowl.
There have been a number of players, former players, who
have not, respectfully to them, have not been as successful,
or successful at all. Um, your personality, your drive, your

(11:53):
makeup and who you are, Um, do you think that
lent to the fact that, as you know, in this
league there are a lot of people that get resentful?
There's a lot of jealousy is in this league as
people move up the ladder, and especially if they don't
do it in what is perceived as the norm? You
were able to pull that off with very little resentment.
You know what I'm saying. Like people, your personality is

(12:16):
such that you're able to communicate. What, in the end,
was your approach that way, and did you make sure
that you were communicating with other GMS in the League?
Did you soften the blow a little bit. How did
you approach that? Yeah, you know, to be honest, and
this wasn't being um like. I just told you the
story how organically and how quickly it happened. So I
think I never really had time to think about that

(12:37):
part of it. Now, Thomas, you've come to know me
and I'm very aware of people. I'm a pleaser. I
like to I like people to be happy. I don't
like conflict. I never want anyone unhappy. And no one
made me aware of that till after about year one
and said, Hey, man, I appreciate the way you did
this because, you know, at first there were a lot
of people bothered and I was going, really, I didn't

(12:59):
know there were. And then I stopped that. I pause
to thank yeah, people who worked their way up from
the and this is their life dreams. I can understand
how that might be the case, and I think the
reason I never saw that as an issue because no
one questioned John Elway, like it's like John Elway the
pope and then like John Elway in Colorado, and so

(13:20):
people were so excited when he took the dive, uh,
into doing the job and he did really well. Now
John was helpful with what I was getting myself into.
He said, Johnny, now, this isn't anything. I know you
and you don't do anything halfway, but you'RE gonna be
shocked about all that this job encompasses. So just you know,

(13:41):
before you take the dive, run through that and run
through it with your family. I know your family is
very important to you. Are they willing to sacrifice? And
so I think John Really helped in those steps. Um,
but my approach in this is relying on a great
team and uh, you know, no one's bigger than the team,
and so I think all those things, I hope all
those things helped, like anything that was uncomfortable, overcome that.

(14:03):
So to that point, it's a great point. I having
come up through the ranks in a lot of different
ways levels, truly at all levels. When I got to
the GM role, I remember really tapping into the context
I had made through all of those years to make
sure that I had the right management team around me.
Who did you rely on to help you with that?

(14:24):
Because that's that's not easy to get your department heads
in place. Was that a San Francisco Forty niner family
that had a lot of really good understanding of that,
the program Marts of the world. Um, who was you
had a number of people here. Did you rely on them?
Did you rely on people around the League succinctly enough
to put together that management group? Yeah, a little bit

(14:46):
of all of the above. So parague was here and
that was a huge hope because if someone were to say,
like what's the part you were least equipped to deal
with right away, um, the salary cap and all that
to come in year one. Never, haven't seen any of that.
Never ever. You know, it wasn't like I came from
being a hedge fund trainer, so that like that stuff.
I had never really run a company, you know. So

(15:06):
having Parrague, Um, you know, was was a tremendous asset.
And I mean I remember our early conversations with Prague.
Like Prague, I I know I can't do this without you.
At the same time, I don't want you just doing
and I need to learn because for me to be
effective at what I do, to marry the two, the
football part with the the strategy on the salary, salary

(15:28):
cap and all that, you need to you need to
educate me. So I don't this isn't just hey, you're
doing that, like help me, you know. And and so
he was tremendous on that. And then, you know, like
you know, I go back to those draft meetings in Denver.
I sat next to Adam Peters. You know, Adam was
the guy next to me. And when I always appreciate
about Adam. You know, John elway carried he cast a

(15:48):
big shadow, you know, and so it's hard to like
maybe contest with John and not contest. You know how
those draftmans. John feels very passionately about a certain player
at a position and Adam would have another opinion. And
a lot of people, I don't really want to fight
that battle with John Elway, and not that it was
a fight, but Adam would voice what was on his mind.
I think Um, you know, and so I always that's

(16:11):
that's stuck with me. And then at number one, number two,
what he said I appreciated. There was whether I agreed
with it or not. There he had, uh, he had
a fact pattern behind it. You know, I like this
guy and here's why, and that's why I think he's
better than that guy. So that always stuck with me.
And so it was a big leap for Adam. But
that's the first guy I thought about bringing with me.

(16:31):
The other thing I relied on Kyle. Kyle been in
this business for a long time. And then the great
thing I came to know. Like it didn't work out
for Trent Bulky here, Trent had built a tremendous staff here,
like our college staff was top flight. Um, you know,
we ended up, you know, changing some of those things,
but the core of that group was was excellent and
they had a great training program so sometimes, you know,

(16:54):
I always believe, and a lot of the people I
talked to, my dad ran companies. First go in there, evaluate, know,
take your time, see what you have there before you
just go blowing things up. And so that's what I
did and what I found. There were a lot of
really talented people. Ethan Wall was in here and Ethan
is just a stud and, Um, you know, Tarkama, all
these guys just in Chabitt Um. You know, I could

(17:17):
go on and on. They were all here already and
we just kind of incorporated our vision for the way
we wanted to do things with talented people and Um,
that's kind of how we arrived there. Mike Shanahan is
also a tremendous I mean a guy who had been
in the business for years, coached me. So that was
kind of my connection to Kyle. He was very helpful
early in the process. Well, you know, you you talk

(17:37):
about communicating and candor and being able to discuss whatever.
I'm a big believer in that. I think there's no
doubt if you can't communicate with those around you, I
mean things just fall apart, and that is being on estimate. Yeah,
we don't like confrontation. I'm similar. I want to make
sure that people are in a good place, but I
also know it's important to be lucidly communicative and very, very,

(18:01):
you know, just clear at so many levels. Much has
been written and talked about with your about your relationship
with Kyle Shanahan, a very strong, opinionated, very intelligent, very
insightful individual. Um, I really have grown over the years
to really appreciate him the more I worked around him,
knowing what he offers, that that personality, that you both

(18:23):
have very strong personalities, both both intelligent personalities. How did
you how did you work with that? And, Um, what
what's the key if you were to share with a
rising general manager prospect about the relationship between the HC
and the G M yeah, it's such a good one.
You and I have talked about this, you know, at

(18:44):
length and uh, you know, I think the thing, you know,
I go back to like being a broadcaster and one
of the things about being an analyst, where you go
out and do games, you really get exposed on a
global level. Two people out there like a Kyle Shannon
and and people ask how so, because some people just
assume Colin I knew each other very well because his

(19:05):
dad coached me, you know, when I was playing for Mike.
Kyle was off at University of Texas playing or probably
coaching at the time. So that really wasn't the case.
I knew him. I met him a couple of times
at the facility. where I really got to know Kyle
is on on production meetings, you know, when he was
the coordinator, and you always talk and like when you
did kyle's teams, the offenses were usually top five, so

(19:26):
you probably want to talk to the play caller and
I remember Kyle. A lot of guys come in, you know,
on a Friday afternoon and you know it's a tough
deal because all they want to do is get home.
That's the end of the week in football. And everybody
wants to get to their family. So Kyle would always
do something interesting. He you know, he said, Hey, I'll
give you whatever you want. You know, I trust you,
but can we talk Friday night, like at ten, once

(19:47):
I put my kids down, because this is really my
family day. And so Kylin I used to get on
the phone and man, every time I'd come out of
that conversation I'd say, Holy God, this guy is bright,
you know, he really. I just learned football in that
conversation and I find out later he would say the
same thing Gus John's philosophies, like he'd say some things
from his playing experiences that really challenged some of the

(20:09):
things I believe and I learned from it, you know,
and his dad kind of would tell us that that,
you know, and so we grew kind of an appreciation.
So first of all you better have the goods and
I knew kyle had the goods in terms of being intelligent.
He was raised by his dad and his dad, you
think about him in Denver. I mean there was never
any mistake when you were on the Denver Broncos who
was running the show. It was Mike Shanahan and coaching

(20:32):
in management and he come contract time. He tried to
say it wasn't him, but I knew. I said, Mike,
I've been around a little while, I know you make
the decisions around here. So Um, but I think then, ultimately, Um,
you know, I think from a from an early Um,
when we first got together, I think one of the
best things we did was really challenged ourselves to what

(20:54):
is our belief system? You know, we're coming and taking
over this proud franchise and we're gonna hire great staffs
and that's all very important, but if we're not able
to articulate our vision for building the championship organization, Um,
then it's hard for people to follow us. And so
the early times, and and this was aided by people
like Tony Dungee, because I'd called Tony, the people I

(21:15):
respect most, and say like what's important early and he
said just spend time with your with your head coach,
because you know, just spend time watching film, spend time
talking family, because through that you're gonna start talking philosophies.
And so kyle and I did that really well early on.
And then we even called on a professor I had
taken a class at Stanford called decision analysis, and one

(21:37):
of the great things in that class, and this is
when I went back to finish my degree Um, was
they taught you how to build a vision statement. Just
professor Burke Robinson, who had run big companies, thought about
writing an effective vision statement. And so I was here
and I said, Kyle, we need to like put the
paper like we need to not just on a surface level.
What do we believe is going to take this place

(22:00):
back to prominence? And we called on Burke Robinson and
we sat in our draft room and it started, you know,
early on with myself, uh, Kyle Martin Mayhew, who was
a teammate of mine my rookie year and and then
had gone on to be a GM and I had
brought him in to kind of Eid me along. I've
never been a GM. Here's someone who I know and

(22:20):
trust who has been in Adam Peters, and we started
in this professor just throwing questions at us and we
came out with this vision statement and it was all
for our first draft and that's really our guiding principle.
Now it's a document, but it's more than that. It's
it's what we believe. That idea of vision statement. I
think you guys also worked with Mike Ford a little bit.

(22:40):
He yeah, he was excellent. You helped me with that.
He was. He was here already, I think parrague. But
you know, you never know when you come into place. Hey,
they got this English guy, this Bloke, and uh, you
know he wants to he's the former GM at Chelsea.
But I remember talking to you and Saint Johnny's he's
very helpful well, as you know, when he got you
on the board. I mean he he initiated conversation that

(23:02):
I thought was really good. And beyond that. But Mike
Ford does great work in this business. Of course. Back
to coaching centric organizations, right, you've been around some big
time coaches and in a minute I'd like to talk
a little bit about Bill Walsh and Tony Dungee. But
going back to the idea of coaching centric it has
been a bonus contention within the league over the years. Right.

(23:25):
You you you have a GM who's strong and opinionated and
you have a head coach who's strong and opinionated and
how they work together as vital. I remember looking back
in those days when I was in the middle management
world and I was watching and I watched closely as
a j Smith and Marty Schottenheimer were working to two
great football men, and yet they were at loggerheads every

(23:45):
day of the year, unfortunately, and again, respectfully to them.
How do you navigate a very coaching centric at least
that's the perception of US organization. Yeah, you know, that's
it's funny because when you brought up those that's exactly
who I was thinking of, because I grew up a
charger fan. And then at the time when that kind
of showdown went between a J Smith and Marty Schottenheimer, Um,

(24:08):
I was saying what a shame, because they had built,
I think, one of the most talented rosters I've ever seen.
I mean I think of that I was playing against it.
L T at halfback, Darren sproles and Michael Turner as
his backups, Philip rivers and drew brees, both being quarterbacks,
Antonio Gates, Marcus McNeil, Nick Hardwick, Chris Dielman, I mean

(24:29):
they were loaded. They were loaded and it was the
best nucleus of a team. Lorenz O'Neill, what happened to
be the fullback, who may be the best fullback after
you know. So it was just they were absolutely loaded
in the fact they led ego or personality and it's funny.
You know. I got a funny story there. I, uh,
when I went to Denver, when I left, I ran in.

(24:51):
I'm in San Diego in the off season. That's where
I hang out, that's where I worked out and I
ran into at a charity event, Dean Spanos, the owner,
and the chargers were down. They were they weren't really
good then and Marty had come on and he said,
why aren't we talked for your agent, like, this is
your hometown, what are we doing? And he and I said, Hey,
no one's called, you know, and he goes, well, would
you listen if if I were to set something up?

(25:13):
So the next week, this was like Saturday night, Monday,
we had a conference call with my agent, David Dunne.
It was Marty Schottenheimer. It was a j Smith and
Marty gets on and Dean starts the call. The owners
on the call and he goes hey, guys, it tells
the story. I ran into John. That's the purpose of
this call. I talked with Marty. Marty he's he's all
on board, and so Marty goes for fifteen minutes on

(25:33):
why John Lynch was a fit for the chargers and
then he goes a J and a j, God bless him,
you know. And and UH, a j says younger, faster.
That's what we've been talking about this entire offseason and,
with all due respect, Marty, John Lynch at thirty three
years old and and playing eleven years, he doesn't fit

(25:55):
into that. And that's what we've talked about. And I'm going,
didn't they invite me on this call, you know, like,
and I was feeling pretty good about myself at the time.
He literally said that while you're on the call. He did.
And Marty, I could tell there was tension and dean said, Hey, John,
I'm sorry to do this to you, and a J.

(26:16):
Do you want to say anything? He goes now I've
said my piece, and then Marty cleaned it up a
little and then I I stopped it. I just said Hey, guys,
like I think we're good. I think I've got plenty
of takers. I did this kind of as a courtesy
to Mr Spanos and I wish you guys well. And
I remember hanging up and saying I don't know if
those guys really like each other. But the fact that,
as a player, I could feel it on the phone,

(26:38):
you know, there was there was the precipice for a
disaster question, and we know that in today's world right
the importance of working together. I didn't ask you a question,
but I like where you were going. But like Kyle,
Kyle's got a strong personality. He's very convicted, Um, in
what he believes. So I think it's like a marriage,

(26:59):
like it's like. Could you compliment each other? Do you
balance each other out? And I think the one thing
I have from Kyle he respects me, you know, and
he respects my opinion at times. Do I have to
be the one to take a deep breath when we're
talking about something. He's frustrated all the time, you know,
but at times he does the same thing for me.
So can you pick each other up? Can you have
each other's back? That's what we try to do, such

(27:21):
that when we get to our staff no one ever
sees any of that. That's you know, that's a great
point and one of the things that I've felt over
the years. For me is, and this is great advice
for any young up and coming executive, is when someone's
rising and they're ires up and they're they're fired up.
There's no point as the GM or the head coach,
to to match that. You need to stay calm and

(27:41):
then wait for your time to be there. And hopefully
your partner understands the same. And Dan Quinn and I
had a really good understanding with that, where he knew
when I was starting to pull and and really starting
to heat up that he would stay low and talk
me through it and I would do the same with him.
We rarely have ever had where we had odds. But

(28:02):
back to this. So okay, you have had the opportunity
to be around some amazing leaders and I really it
doesn't have to be a long conversation, but I do
want to talk to you a little bit about if
I asked you what was the main leadership lesson you
learned from one of the best minds to ever coach
in the business, Bill Walsh, what would that be? Well,
first of all, I mean you know I'm I'm I

(28:24):
can't believe, beyond my wildest dreams, that will be going
into canton here in the summer and I think often
it's it will be in my speech. It never would
happen without Bill Walsh, I was at quarterback. Thomas, who
played quarterback my first two years, ended up signing in baseball.
I played football baseball at Stanford. My Passion, my heart.
I wanted to be like my dad was football. I

(28:45):
was a better baseball player. Frankly, I had more talent,
you know, at an early age I kind of found
my home. My junior year I shift. Three weeks before
the opener in training camp, I go to Denny Green.
I said just put me on the damn field. I'm
tired of being a backup. I've been the number two
quarterbacks from I end up. He says, what about outside back?
Or after fighting me on it, he wanted me to
stay at quarterback. Hey, you're one snap away from playing.

(29:06):
I said, Denny, I'm just gonna play baseball unless you
put me on the field. And Uh, you know, I
walked out of their safety. So, but then I go
on and that year I played about I start the
first two games. I get benched for I don't know why.
Um I was leading the team in tackles. I get
benched and I play about fift the snaps. I'm off.

(29:27):
I signed with the Florida Marlins, where I was drafted
by the MARLINS. Denny Green goes to the Vikings, Bill
Walsh comes in. Bill spends, like coaches do, three weeks
just watching tape. I get drafted. I'm in negotiations with
the MARLINS and he goes. One day I get a
phone call. Is this John Lynch? And I said Yeah,
this is John Lynch. He goes this is Bill Walsh
and I think it's my buddies playing a prank on me,

(29:48):
like yeah, right, and he goes no, this is this
is really Bill Walsh. And so I take the call
and he goes hey, I just want to tell you
congrats on being drafted, you know, by the Marlins. What
it want and honor and it's I was like, you've
got a great baseball career. I just like, are you
willing to talk to me about football? And I go yeah,
you know, but I kind of. I did this coach
and I'm gonna sign with these guys. He goes, would

(30:09):
you consider coming back? And I go coach safety for
one year. I played half the snaps and he goes, well,
can I tell you my perspective? And I said sure,
and he goes uh, he asked me to come by
his office so I went up there on Sandhill road.
He had an office and I went in there and
he started the meeting with Hey, let's just get right
right to it. You know, I know your time's limited.

(30:31):
I watched the defense and I think you're our best
defensive player and I said I took all my courage.
I said, with all due respect, coach, I think you're
recruiting because, like, I played half the snaps in my
first year. He Goes John, I don't know why they
didn't play whatever. We're all the circumstance. I'm just telling
you what my eyes see. And in Great Bill Welsh fashion,

(30:51):
he didn't just tell me that. He had a tape
and the tape went something like it would show Ronny
Lot doing something at safety and then it would show
me doing something. They're really similar and it was probably
five plays long and at the end he had me
so ready I went home and I called the Marlins
and I said, Hey, I'm signing this deal, but I'm
coming back for my senior year of football and without
that I never would have even played football. So I think, Um,

(31:14):
what I learned from Bill Walsh is he was uniquely talented.
His eye for talent his eye for running an organization. Um.
But I think the thing with bill his that guy
strived for excellence every practice. I mean when he first
got there, I think it was to get away from
the pressure of the NFL. That and he wanted to
go back. When he took the job. He said my

(31:35):
bliss in Coaching was coaching college football. It was fun,
I was helping young men grow. Well, he was like
that for about five weeks. Then he realized we were
pretty good and then we saw that Bill Walsh who
wanted precision and excellence. He was just unique like that.
And and you talk about you knew, I think, one
of Kyle's great traits. Like, and I know you came

(31:56):
to know this, like at wide receiver. Here's the profile
look for in every position. Your x receiver. I want speed,
you know Z I want a combination of them. All
the F I want. I want a separator who can
like he knew exactly. Bill was that same way. He
knew exactly what he wanted from each position and had
a tremendous way of communicating it. Well, that idea. As

(32:16):
we all know, building teams it is vital that you
have very clear communication from your head coach and his
staff as far as what is needed in that scheme,
because we all know. We you. You obviously know defense
inside and out and I've shared with people. Although when
I got to Atlanta in two thousand and eight, all
we did was built around the offense, with with Matt

(32:37):
Ryan and and Ladanian Thomas, not Ladanie Thompson, Michael Turner,
Ladis Thompson's back and and then, you know, we we
went after Tony Gonzalez. I mean it was very driven
towards offense, but I wanted nothing more than to have
the most Badass defense in the league. It's what I
grew up playing. I loved it so much. Wasn't as talented.
My Dad used always tell me, t you're gonna BE

(32:58):
gonna be six FT two, oh five, you're gonna be
the ideal. I nene of her got over five nine
if that. People that have me on the tape every
once in a while Kevin Colberg saying now, man, you
you were five eight and three quarters. You don't even
like five nine. But so so let's let's quickly talk
about Um there. There's been an uptick in in general
manager salaries over the last in a while. Most recently,

(33:20):
which I'm really excited about. That said, there's still a
bit of a chasm. Sorry, not a bit, I'll be honest.
There's still a major chasm between GM salaries and head
coaching salaries. I'm not gonna put you on the spot,
but to say, do you think, given today's NFL? Back
in the day we as general managers, you as general managers.

(33:42):
Me formally we're behind the scenes a little bit. Today
at GM is right smack DAB in the limelight. There's
a lot going on where we used to get five
head coaches, potentially to higher and five quarterbacks. I'm a
big believer in the in the deuce rule. I mean,
if if you don't do it into you won't be around. Um.
And the other thing, by the way, I've said this

(34:03):
before in other interviews, I always claimed Mike Smith had
three coaches of the year and I thought, don't I
go back to number one again? I don't. Obviously didn't happen.
So do you think that chasm is justified in today's NFL?
That's a good question. Um, you know, there's some things
that I probably haven't delved into as much. I just
kind of like there's certain things that's the way it is.

(34:25):
It's the way it's been. Now, hopefully there's some people
and I think we made some progress in the last
year or two in the in the general managers, and
generous people like Jed Yorke have have helped contribute to that.
You know, John Schneider, you know. I don't want to
get into the name and people, but I think people
have taken a big bump and I think maybe they're
seeing that. Um, head coaches. You know that, Thomas. I

(34:46):
mean the the amount of responsibility they earned, everything that
they make, you know, and and I think they would
probably tell you, Um, you know, that they would probably
pull for GM's because they know how important they are
to their success as well. So, Um, I think, uh,
you know, people work extremely hard at this and I

(35:06):
just love that. You know that. Uh, I think there's
enough to go around for everyone. Football. Uh, it's not
getting less popular. I mean this is an incredible game
and the fact that we go into these drafts and
people make I mean that the viewership is like better
than the NBA Championship Games. It's it just blows my
mind and I think. I think like business is good

(35:26):
in the NFL, in the midst of a pandemic we
were we just redid because these TV networks can't get
enough of it, and so I think things are boding
well moving forward for anyone who works in football and
that I think that's good for us all. I think
that's a great answer. I mean, John, I thought about
it a lot and you know, whether, respectfully, ownership likes

(35:47):
it or not, the reality is within the world, you
know your contemporaries, within the world hours as general managers,
there's always discussion about where we're going. It's just that's
human nature and I love where we're going. I think
we're making some major strides and that said, there's a
lot on a general manager's plate today and I agree
with you head coaches should continue to make the money.

(36:08):
There's a lot on them and I really believe the
movement to to bridge that gap is important too, because
it breeds resentment in the league. Unfortunately, you see the
common the common theme here, unfortunately, that there is that people.
People want to make sure that they're they're being compensated
because they put their hearts and soul and their lives
into it from a management standpoint, as you know, just

(36:29):
as the head coaches do and that relationship is massively important.
All right, you being as respected as you are around
this league for the person you are, for the intelligence
you have, the presence you have. Again, you have a
really cool demeanor about you. Ownership around the League are
interested in what you have to say. If you were
to share one salient piece of advice with ownership about

(36:52):
the evolving element of this league, and not just a league,
because that's too broad, the evolving l men of management
and and they're there non coaching side. What would that
be that you've learned through the Yorks? Is there anything
that you could share with I think it's it's one
thing the Yorks do really well. Hire people you believe in, uh,

(37:14):
you know, and trust them to build a great team
and support them, but let them do their jobs and
it's something I'm so thankful for the for the Yorks.
I I was really UH blessed to play for organizations
like the glazier family. Um, you know, the glaziers were supportive,
they were always there for you, but they didn't overwhelm people.

(37:35):
They let you know, they let people do their jobs.
I went to probably the greatest example, Pat Bowland. I
mean he was all about one thing, given his team
an opportunity to win and it was so cool. When
I went to uh the glaziers were tremendous to me
and and all that. But I go to Denver and Greek,
the longtime trainer there, says hey, Um, you know, I

(37:56):
had some equity in the league. I had been in
eleven years, had played at a high level. They brought
me in as a free agent and Greek says hey,
on Thursday afternoons we get about six guys every year.
We go in my office and we picked college games
and our owners in there with you and he wants
you to talk ship to him. You know, if he
wants you to, he's gonna come after you on Stanford,
your Alma Mater. He wants you to come back at

(38:17):
him on Oklahoma. And still, though, you know at first
it was Mr Bowland and yes, sir, and he'd gone
out like, come on, we're guys hanging out. But Pat.
The point was pat was there and had a great presence,
but he just let people do their job. And I think, if, if,
I think the best owners do that, and uh, I
think the other messages. We got a tremendous thing going.

(38:40):
The only thing we can do is screw this thing up.
So protect the integrity of the game, the authenticity of
this game, because it's a beautiful game. It's been it's
it's affected so many lives in such a positive way.
I think it has a tremendous unifying effect on a
country that's very divided right now. Um. That's why I've
always loved football, I talked earlier about I was middle child.

(39:00):
I like people coming together and I remember being a
fan in the San Diego chargers. My Dad worked in radio,
so he'd be up in the suite doing his job,
which was entertaining clients and all his kids, my sister Kara,
myself and Ryan, my younger brother. We sat in the stands.
But you know who worked out, who looked out for us? Earl,
some guy from Texas who wore a cowboy hat from Houston,

(39:23):
and Earl was from Houston, flew in every week, but
he looked after us like who his own. And James
was this other guy, a black guy who sat to
our left and one time there was a fight, and
you know, that broke out in the stadium and he
went after this guy because he touched my younger brother.
I mean and we were all like family. And then
when I played you know, Derek Brooks, myself and warrant sap,

(39:44):
different parts of the country, different UH socio economic backgrounds,
different faith, all that. But I think this game, because
it's so damn hard, nothing's easy about it, it has
this quality that if you can make it through, you're
gonna have a bond that it is so unique and
hard to break that I think it's got a great
unifying effect. And if you if you can't tell, I

(40:06):
love the game because it's been so good to me
and my family. Well, you love the game and it
obviously comes through whenever we talk and I appreciate that.
And back to your your idea, just to fold it
back in. Yes, give give the individuals the keys. If
you're hiring them and you believe in them ostensibly, let
them make the decisions, let them do their work and

(40:26):
in the end, I mean I've always said this, if
we aren't, as general managers, doing the job, then fire
our ass. That's the honest I mean, the reality is
it's not about survival, it's about winning and it's about
winning big. It's about winning super bowls, and that's what
we all need to be doing and you have to
have an ownership group. I believe that is behind you
on that. That's it's it's a great point. I think
one of my biggest goals in this thing is, you know,

(40:49):
you beat them to the punch. Go, go in one
and then say I'm out. Hey, let's let's very I mean,
you have a few more minutes, can let's okay, let's
talk about beating to the punch. Let's talk about being aggressed.
So for a minute. So you come in with an
aggressive style in as far as acquisitions. Okay, it could
be a draft, it could be free agency acquisitions. It's
acquiring a quarterback in Jimmy Garoppolo, which was a big

(41:13):
move early on out the gate it was a big move.
You have had a number of draft picks that were
big moves. You've had a number of decisions in free
agency that were big and solid, sound moves that weren't
sitting on your your hand type of deal up to
even this year, which was a monumental move, I believe,
moving up to three to get a quarterback that you
believed very talented had so much to offer. And yet

(41:37):
there's a little bit of a controversial side, not not
because of his talents, just maybe because it doesn't have
the experience that some of these other people have. I
love the fact, I mean let's go back to Julio Jones.
I mean in eleven it was. It was a big,
big move moving up that many picks. I've always been
taught from Bill Belichick and beyond that, you know your

(41:58):
organization better than anyone. So all the pundits out there
and all the people that were in your role who
had opinions back in the day, you know about how
this went down and why people draft certain people. They have, respectfully, again,
don't have the idea and the clue of what you
have as a GM and and Kyle has as as
the head coach. Talk to me just about aggressiveness in

(42:20):
this business, from the football field as a player to
being the the main football guy. Well, I you know,
I think it's kind of how I I'm wired, you know,
is being aggressive. I'm you know, I'm chilled, I'm relaxed
off the field, like I kind of thought I'd be
very conservative and then I got in that first draft
and you know, Ryan pace quality wanted something. We were

(42:41):
like all right, let's roll and we traded back you know,
we took Solomon Thomas Um and you know, and right
there you talk about being a product, that your experience is.
You know, what I knew through playing is that I
was a lot better defensive back when I had that
front line humming and we already had armstead and Buckner
and we just wanted to keep adding to that front.

(43:02):
Some people who question whether Sally was the right pick
or not. We made that pick Um and we added
to a d line that eventually became the strength and,
I think, a big reason why we got to the
Super Bowl. Later in that first round there was a
player out of Alabama, Ruben Foster, that we just we
were head over heels for. Uh. You know, a lot
of people talk about all the character concerns. He had

(43:23):
never been you know, you go through those draft meetings,
there's a lot of guys who have been in trouble. Ruben,
they really hadn't got in a lot of trouble Um.
You know, I think the reason I bring that up
is because we were aggressive to move up. So we
had two first rounders that year and Ruben didn't work
out for other reasons and that could have put us
on the heels and said no, we're never trading again. Instead,

(43:44):
like hey, we took a swing, we felt convicted, it
didn't work. Are we going to change our behavior to
now we're never trading? Uh No, because you're you're gonna
miss out on a whole lot. Well, that's that's a
great point, John. If I can interject, because I look back.
You know, people often ask me over these years, and
especially now that I'm out, which one did you want back?
And then looked. Are Many we went back? Right, it's

(44:05):
not an exact science. I mean, I'm gonna name a name.
I mean it's Vic Beasley. Vic Beasley was so talented
in so many ways. He wins the sack championship, so
to speak, in sixteen, the year we go to the
Super Bowl, plummets, and I'm not asking you necessarily for that.
The Real, the reality is we all have those picks
and those moves. We went back, but to have the
resiliency to get back on the horse and be aggressive again,

(44:29):
I love that. I think it's the way. It's a
not for long league for a reason, and if you're
sitting back waiting for things to happen, that you might
have been able to do that twenty or thirty years ago,
John as a GM. Now, no way. Now I'm you know,
I'm with you on that and I think you know
some of again, back to my experience is playing defensive back.
You know, in our league you better be able to
move on from success or from disappointment. I've always said,

(44:53):
like you know, I played with some unbelievable and I
believe the game starts up front. But when Warren Sapp
you know, he rarely did, maybe not a an example
when he'd miss a tackle. You know, the linebackers are
there to clean it up and then the back ends
there to clean up. When I missed tackle, that thing
was out the door eight yards, and so you have
to live with that. When you screw up, the whole
world knows it. Well. It's kind of like being a

(45:14):
gym when you screw up or or, you know, make
a decision that doesn't work out, which there's a thousand reasons.
Why did we make it? For the right reasons. What
can we learn from it? But don't sit there and
say I'm never making a move again and become paralyzed.
And you know there's a lot of a lot of GMS.
People keep talking about this, this new breed that are
are willing to be aggressive. Um, I think they just

(45:35):
want to be great, you know, and there's there's there's
only so many ways to make your team great. So
why not look at every avenue? And I think a
lot of guys I don't know. We get to go
to these league meetings, we get to know people and
respect people and trust people. You know, why wouldn't you
get on the phone? Hey, if you can help your organization,
I can help mine. Let's work together to do so.
You know, you build relationships and we just did with Chris. Career,

(45:59):
Chris has always been a eye that I know when
I call him he's gonna shoot you straight. What I
love about Chris he's he doesn't get very emotions. He
never it's just like even Keel and like Hey, John,
if you want to get there, here's what it's gonna take.
And so you kind of know like this isn't imposture
and this is him telling the truth, and you get
to have a good rapport with someone like that and
you're able to do things. So I think back to

(46:20):
our interaction when we started talking about trades and we
were talking about certain receivers over the you know, last
couple of years. I'm a huge believer in relationships. I
think one of the reasons I'm able to sit here
with you and and some of the other people around
the league that I am is because that's an important
thing for me to have good relationships. Authentic relationships, mutual respect,
mutual trusting relationships are huge. There's no way in this

(46:43):
business I don't believe, you can get deals done, and
that's maybe secondary because I care for people and I
love the soulful bonds that a lot of us have
as general managers. We may all be different, honestly, there
are certain G ms out there that I can go
out and have a great bottle of wine with and
potentially move been to singing uh, God bless America, Um,
in different parts of the country, other places from here, um.

(47:06):
But in the end they're not necessarily, you know, guys
that I really want to do a deal with, not
because they're not because they're bad people at all, just
because my relationship on that scale maybe a little different. Um,
which is probably a good segue into relationships and evolving
and and how changes is upon us in the NFL.
The League has made strides in diversity, Um, diversity and

(47:30):
inclusion is something that it's at the forefront. We know
how important it is from an organization standpoint. Can you
talk a little bit about it? And then I would
love to to move into bringing Sally clavel on the
set here. Your your rising star from the underrepresented group
within the NFL. I love it. I love where we're
going with us. I think it's really good for for
the League. Um, talk to us a little bit about

(47:51):
the forty niners in that approach. Well, it's it's you know,
you talk about feeling blessed, and one of the things,
you know, I think a couple of things drew me here.
Kyle Shannon and the opportunity to get back in the game,
being invested in something where you get to experience, uh,
you know, the thrill of victory, the agony to defeat,
that kind of thing, that kind of feeling you only
get from a scoreboard and competing at the highest level. Um.

(48:15):
But then there's also being the San Francisco Forty niners.
And yes, it's a championship organization. There's five Lombardies we
get to walk through in our lobby each day. And
you don't think that drives you but also, you know
Bill Walsh, we talked about him. He also understood the
importance for inclusion, for diversity our ownership. Denista bartlow has
always been very forward thinking on including women and Um,

(48:38):
you know, I just think whatever perspective you're coming from, Hey,
you're in the bay area. It's a very diverse community.
The way I look at it is there are so
many talented people out there. Why cut off half the work,
half the half, half the possibilities, you know, with women?
And I think it was just for years, like people say, well,
women don't do that, and it took some brave people

(49:00):
like the Bill Walsh has to say why not, like
de Nis to Barlow, and people started doing it. And
so I remember. Um, you know, we started having a
want to bring some of that in our organization and
we were looking for it and you know, the scouting
assistant role is a great, Um, great place to start
for that. That's like the breeding grounds of of people
who have gone on to be general managers and Um

(49:24):
and all that in this league. And so we were
looking for someone and one of our road scouts, John Stephens,
a great way to do that in this league is
who do you talk to the people are out there,
boots on the ground, and John Stevenson, Sally, I'm right there,
right John, John Stevenson. We asked all our scouts said, hey,
there's this gal down at two lane and she was

(49:47):
the director of on campus recruiting. Her name Sally Clevell.
Sally played basketball, but all I know is when I
go on a visit there, that's who I talked to,
because she's gonna get me to the right coaches, she's
gonna give me the right scoop on all these play her.
She's gonna say here's the academic advisor. It's just it's
very impressive. And so we brought sally in for an
interview and I remember vividly doing it and saying yeah,

(50:09):
this would be cool, but we want whoever does this.
We're not giving a token jobs. They've got to win
the interview. And so we brought I think eight people
in and Sally came out on top and it was unanimous.
It was Martin Mayhew, myself, Adam Peters and Sally has
now been here. Uh, started as a scouting assistant, worked
her way up to probe in our pro department as

(50:30):
an analyst and uh, I guess I'm announcing a promotion
on air. She's she's now gonna move out on the road.
She's gonna be our southwest Scout, replacing John Stevenson, who
has moved on to to another organization, and so we're
so proud of Sally and Um, you know. But she's
as you see, as you'll see talking to her, she's bright, Um,

(50:51):
she's she's always got a huge smile on her face
and all that. But what I love best about Sally
is she makes us better. You know, she's very talented,
she takes a job very seriously and we're fortunate to
have her. So I asked you if, if I were to,
these can be quick hitters as well, if there was
one thing that you would have done differently pre NFL executive,

(51:13):
what would it have been? Wow, that might be a
tough one. That is a tough one. No, I uh,
you know what, I try not to live in like things.
I would have been different. I think I have been
so blessed, uh, with everything from my family to the
Great Fortune I've had in the NFL. I kind of
think God has a plan for us. So obviously there's

(51:35):
decisions in my in life and whatnot that I would change,
but I feel pretty good about, you know, about where
I'm at and obviously I think what I try to
do is just trying to learn from everything I encounter,
because I think if you continually do that you'll become better.
Would that be your salient point of recommendation to rising
exact mid management people that are, you know, driving for

(51:56):
that GM job right now, if you were to share one,
one point of of uh sort of opinion, and would
it be that? Yeah, I think along those same lines.
You know, like I remember playing in the Super Bowl
and Mike Tomlin was my coach and Mike was a
couple of years younger me but so had so much
wisdom to him and Mike knew that in big moments

(52:17):
I like putting the weight on my shoulders. I kind
of wanted to take it all on and sometimes too
to my own detriment. And I'll never forget he put
a little note at my desk in the in the
Hilton down in San Diego where we were about, you know,
where we were meeting, and it was taped to my
desk and I came and said forty seven seven read,
which was his nickname for me, and he said forty
seven read. We don't need sixty great plays, we need

(52:40):
one great play sixty times, and so I think that's
a tremendous metaphor for life. Like don't try to eat
the steak all in one bite. Like attack every day
with a vigor and a and as an opportunity to
grow and get better. And when you do that and
you start stacking days, all of a sudden you become
a lot better and a lot more proficient and everything

(53:00):
you do. I think it's what the great players do.
I think it's what the great exects do. They kind
of live in that day. They obviously have aspirations and
goals where they want to get. But then what do
you do with that? You find a way to get
better every single day and when you do that, good
things happen. Good things happen. Last two questions. One is
you're you have a really sound understanding of life and balance.

(53:24):
Having read what I've read about you and just talk
with you over the years, I know how important your
family is. Just speak to that a little bit and
how important it is to have balance as an executive. Yeah,
I think that was probably the the probably the toughest
thing about covid and I watched what it did too,
people when you're separated from your family. Because, like, one
of the big concerns. I'll never forget when I went

(53:47):
across country with Jed and that's where he interviewed me,
really at his house, but going cross country to to
meet with Kyle. Um, I see guys, with all due respect,
like I've got this time frame, but have a father
daughter dance back in San Diego. I'm not missing so
like and I want I'm telling you this because I'm
also telling you that if I do this, my family

(54:08):
is going to be a part of it. I've got
four kids, I've got a wife I've been with at
the time for twenty four years and, like, I played
for Tony Dungee, who who let me know that it
is possible, that those two things don't have to be
mutually exclusive. You can do both. And yes, there's a
huge investment but, like, my family is going to be
around the facility. Covid what did it do? It took

(54:28):
that away from us, and so part of the payoff,
I think, for families who sacrifice a lot of time
with their loved ones, Um is that they get great
experiences like coming to games and they get to share
this with us, and Kyle and I were very much aligned.
So I think that was a great start. But covid,
all of a sudden we're not with our families, our
families can't come to game and man, if every year

(54:50):
was like Covid, I wouldn't be doing this because my
family is too important to me. I won't sacrifice my
time with them at the expense of this. I love this,
it drives me, but my family comes first and Um
Dad and that in my faith. And so I think, Um,
you know, a lot of people think that it's not
possible to do both. I think. I think when you're
happy at home and when you're happy in your life,

(55:12):
you're only better at your job, and so we try
to create that environment and here for our entire UH team.
And Yeah, there's a time where you gotta grind and
you're gonna be away and their sacrifices, but but the
notion that you can't do both, I don't believe in that.
I love that and that is that's so important for
all of us and and a lot of that mid
man group that are are looking and they know perception

(55:33):
is so important and to hear from guys like you,
who have such a stature in this league, to understand,
and a number of other people I continue to hear
from the importance of family, the importance of balance. It's
only going to make them being the next wave of
general managers that much better without understanding, more creative, more focused,

(55:53):
more in tune with what needs to happen morale wise,
if they have that balance, if they don't and they're
rigid and every thing is from six in the morning
until eleven at night, and beyond no chance to win
as an organization. I have a I have a really
strong opinion about this. Very last question. This probably doesn't
apply to you because you're this wily veteran of of

(56:13):
the of the media ranks, but what I've asked everyone
is if there were to be one question that you
feared I was going to ask you, and you don't
have to answer that, that's in parens. What was that question? Um,
you know, I do think one thing that helped. What
do you do when you're a player and a high
profile player in this league? You get interviewed and then

(56:34):
what did I do? I went to the booth. So
you're kind of prepared and I think one thing, and
Kyle I say I call that experience. But one thing
I I thought is like hey man, you've got to
protect your team, even at the expense of not being deceitful.
But like I might have to tell some fibs and whatnot.
Kyle like has this great he just always tells the truth.
And what you find when you do that you don't

(56:56):
have to chase your tail thinking, okay, well, how did
I what did I tell them? You just tell the truth.
And obviously we we came up with a term strategic transparency.
So we're gonna be transparent, but we're gonna be strategic
and and so, like the decision to take trade, we
kept that, you know, a really good secret, and and
not just for our Egos, because we didn't have the

(57:19):
first pick in the draft, we had the third. So
you can make a lot of assumptions about what's happening,
and wanted too, but we didn't know. We felt like
it was in our best interest to kind of keep
it quiet. We did, and I think that's a great
uh example of strategic transparency. Well, strategic transparency is Um
to me. It's a it's a great parallel. My parallel to.

(57:40):
That is what I've used many, many times was Um
semantic responsibility and basically meaning you know, there are certain
ways to deliver your message and you know that. I
mean obviously you have a really good understanding of that.
You can say one thing a certain way and it'll
it'll plummet the morale of your group, your scouting group

(58:01):
or your coaches, you know, interaction if you deliver it
in the right way, and it doesn't mean you're not
being authentic, just means like, be strategic about how you're
delivering it, semantically responsible and don't just go off, fly
off the handle. And I think you can get a
lot of things on John. Thank you so much for
joining me. What a rig you got here. This is awesome.

(58:21):
I'm really travels to you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Well, look,
I hope you enjoyed that. I mean you know that again,
very eye opening listening to John Lynch again. He deserves
not only to be a hall of fame football player
from the NFL world, but also a hall of fame person.
Very very, very good, interesting soul, as I mentioned many times.

(58:45):
So from there we're gonna jump all the way back
across country into the hardcore area of Philadelphia, the one
of the hardest core areas football related. They love their
football there, they know their football there and of was
a very proud of their eagles and they throw their
shots at their guy, Howie Rosesman, who were gonna be

(59:06):
visiting with. Howie is very, very talented. Howie and I
have been probably the one of the you know, we're
big competitors. We get along really, really well, we're really
good friends, but we are very competitive when it comes
down to it. Of course, we lost a big, important
game to them in two thousand and seventeen and we
thought we were gonna maybe have an opportunity to go
back to the Super Bowl and make amends from the

(59:29):
Sixteen Super Bowl when I was with the Falcons. And
again we're really looking forward to spending time with Howie,
heading back east, talking football and one of the hotbeds
of football, Philadelphia, with our good friend Howie Roseman. You
have been listening to the GM journey with Thomas demittrop.
Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews GMS from your

(59:51):
favorite NFL teams. The GM journey has been produced by
Allen Castenbaum, Thomas demittrop and Oct on entertainment. Don't forget
to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever
you get your podcast from. The GM journey is distributed

(01:00:13):
by the eight side network