John Schneider - GM Seattle

Thomas heads to the Pacific Northwest and catches up with Seahawks GM, John Schneider. John discusses his path to the GM chair and his mentors Mike Holmgren and Ron Wolf. John also discusses his unique relationship with his coach Pete Carroll.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Ariel Custom Baum and I am the
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solutions for families of all walks of life. On our website,
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(00:21):
pillars of health, beast and affordability. To help continue to
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donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org.
Forward slash donate. Look great time visiting with Brandon being
up in Buffalo and, of course, we're going across the

(00:43):
country to the Pacific northwest to meet with our good
friend and, like I said, the most popular probably general
manager in the League. got a chance to spend some
great time with a good friend of mine, John Schneider,
out in Seattle. Welcome to the GM journey. With Thomas Dimitrof,
we spent a really good day with both John Snyder,

(01:04):
his wife Tracy, and Pat Monahan, the lead singer from trained,
joined us on the boat when we were out cruising
around Lake Washington. We had a great time. We rekindled
a friendship that we've had for a long time. Once again,
we become heavy competitors in the league. This allowed us
to put aside the competition and the time that we're

(01:26):
trying to always beat each other and really dig back
into our history again. Long Time friend of mine great
deal of respect, both professionally and personally. Check this one out.
I think you'll really understand why, in the end, John
Snyder is one of the guys in this league that's
gonna be around here a long time. Just for context,

(01:46):
I think it's important for everyone to know this interview
was done just prior to the season. All right. So
here we are in Bellevue, Washington, and beautifully appropriate Seattle
Day with my dear friend John Snyder and uh, I'm
so excited to be here. I appreciate you joining. This
is cool. You look great on a north on a

(02:07):
northwest day, buddy, on a northwest day also. It doesn't
be sunny, right, but that wouldn't be appropriate. This looks great.
Your beard looks great. I would be growing it if
I could. I'm never I'm I'm the SPLOTCHY guy. I can't,
I can't do it. You're you're you're the most well
dressed person I know. Okay, you're you look great. Kime
wanted to argue with me the other day that he

(02:28):
was so. You know, He dresses pretty good. He's a
good dressing guy. You fellow. He's always talked about how
he he loves that, he loves dressing and HE'S A
big watch guy as well. So we had a good
time talking with him about that. John. So I've thought
about this. You were so very well respected in this league.
You have such a personality and you're so affable communicative.

(02:52):
I know you're going on on on s like this,
this is what you are and you're the most popular
general manager in our league for not only those reasons,
but because of how you put teams together. That affable
side and communicative side. Is that something you learned? Has
That always been you? Because you know, you and I
know we come into this league and we're we're sort

(03:13):
of taught you need to be a hardass gm you
need to be really, really harsh with enrigid. Tell me
your thoughts on that? Yeah, that's that's Um, very kind
of you. I appreciate you saying that. Um, you got
me blushing, Dude. No, but uh, I would say. I
would say really just uh, there, there. There became a point, Um,

(03:35):
where in my career, or just from a confidence standpoint,
it's like, you know, I just felt like just be yourself,
like if you're gonna, if you're gonna go for it,
go for it being yourself. You know, make your decisions
based on what you would do. Um, not necessarily. You know,
obviously what your boss wants, right. You know that. That

(03:56):
part of it. But I guess I was always like,
I got to a point where I saw a number
of really good evaluators, uh, fail because they got into
a position, a leadership position, where they tried to be, uh,
Thomas Demittrov, right, I need to be or like, I
need to be like, but I need to be like

(04:18):
my former boss. Or what would my former boss do
in this situation? And I'm not saying that you wouldn't
do that right, that you wouldn't think about those things. But,
as you know, we have to make decisions like that
every day and if you don't know who you are,
your core, then how are you going to get to
those are you gonna get to making those decisions in
a quick manner, right, or in the manner and the

(04:41):
timing that you want to make it in right. Well,
you you have. You have such a grasp of that.
And and this would be the perfect segue into asking you,
does that mean that you would sit here and do
your Chris Farleyam and takes in front of the entire world?
We can say later in the evening. Yeah, that's what
that's that's good. All right. Look, you you have an

(05:02):
unbelievable record right now and we, you know, we gauge,
of course, by wins and losses, and to have nine
out of eleven winning seasons Um, meaning above five, that's unbelievable.
I mean as a as a general manager going into
your twelfth season, what do you attribute your consistency? Yeah,
that's crazy. It goes. Yeah, and and you know that. Two.

(05:25):
Are you there? Fourteen years? Yeah, okay. So with us
it's just been you know, Pete when when coach Carol
and I came together, you know, he had his win forever,
always compete. You know, those were his two biggest, you know, philosophies,
and we got together and mine was really it's kind

(05:46):
of like, you know, to keep it simple, stupid. So
just playing. Communicate Work, plan, communicate work, we'RE NOT gonna
out's smartly you, we're gonna outwork you. was kind of
our deal. But then we looked at it, or I
looked at it, from a like for a and perspective. Right. So, Um,
what would what would the fans want me to be doing? Right? Well,

(06:07):
they would want us to have a consistent championship caliver
football team every year. Do you want to go through
a whole offseason, like, you know, rooting for your favorite
NFL team and thinking, well, this year they're not going
to have a shot, right, because they lost this guy
or they lost that guy. My point is it goes
really fast because we've always talked about competing at the
highest level in every avenue that we possibly can. And

(06:31):
you know, whether that's, you know, with sports science or
in in in the kitchen, or evaluating and coaching and
every everything in the equipment room, player development, and you know,
we've just always said like, Um, it doesn't stop. There's
no finish line. And so I think that's why the
time's going really fast, because there's there hasn't been like Ah,

(06:54):
of course we have our resets right where you have okay,
you have to make those really ugly decisions every year on.
You know, salary cap issues are descending players and that
sort of thing, but we've just always competed like every day,
like it's just the next day, like what's next? No
finish line. You guys are perceived that way. I mean

(07:14):
from outside. People look at the Seattle seahawks and what
you and Pete have done over the years and they
marvel in many different ways and that is tough sometimes,
having been in New England, when you win a lot,
your expectations that will win a lot. You, you, you're
you're driven to win. I mean and when you don't
or when you win by fewer points than you really

(07:36):
want to win by. Yeah, I experienced that back in
oh seven, just before I got the job in Atlanta,
and we were beating remember that was when Wett points,
and I started realizing like am I? Am I that
guy that wants to like rubbing in people's faces like
that's why I started to realize and I became addicted
to winning. That's it's a bizarre there. Okay, how do

(07:57):
you prevent your staff? I'm talking about not as much
or coaches, but the personnel staff and your support staff.
How do you how do you prevent them from becoming
complacent with all of these winning seasons. Just that mindset
of coming to work every day like what, what? What?
What's my role? What am I doing to get better?
How am I helping the organization instead of just, you know,

(08:18):
punching a clock? Right, you're, you're. I'm making a difference,
and I think that Um by being open and Um.
It's communicative. We are um in all the departments. I
think everybody feels like they have a significant role and
so there's a there's a level of Um. You know,

(08:38):
self reflection every day, like what am I doing to
help out? Are you? Are you a quick switch guy?
I'm not talking about temper, but if you see something
within your building where there is complainance, complacency, excuse me,
or or water cooler talk about something, are you to
move in yourself? Do you delegate that to someone else,
or do you you kind of float in with your

(08:58):
cool personality and say a man's that's just not probably pretty.
I'll be sarcastic, right. I'll bring in the sarcasm and
I can handle like. I think I can handle everything
pretty well, except if somebody's treating some somebody poorly. That's
kind of when I lose it, right, that quick switch,

(09:19):
you know, like I can't handle that. You know, like
just treat everybody the way you want to be treated.
And you know, Um, just because you have this degree
or that degree, or you work for this team or
you work for that team, doesn't mean that anybody's better.
You know, really, we it's really like not a we're
not a top down. It's kind of like all these

(09:41):
moving pieces, right, and Pete and I are kind of
guiding it. Yeah, now that's what appears again from afar,
and I love that because I think there's there's such
an important element that needs, I think, to be very
consistently um sort of set up around the league that way,
because I think again, I think everyone's individual and they
all have their different approaches and everything. I think being

(10:03):
able to do that and being able to monitor when
it's when you really need to step in and be
a hard ass and when sarcasm can fly. Yeah, it's
having awareness alter right, you know how you approach it. Okay,
so it must be interesting, though, like going around talking
all these different guys then, and yes, it is, because
its freedom for you like to just because we don't
do this. We don't do it, which we could, which

(10:25):
which is a perfect another segue. Of course, this is
when we normally talk about our history together, because a
lot of the people that I travel around on these
on these conversations are you know, there's a lot of
history and it's I've had a couple of emotional times
when I've gotten a chance to really dig into conversations
with three and four hours in and having dinner and

(10:45):
I'm thinking, Oh man, if we could have only done
this while we were GMS. Um. But again, heart woman,
because the competitive in the League so small. That's exactly right.
So let's talk a little bit about our history, throw
around a story or two or or not. But the
reality is you and I go way back. I valued,
I've always valued our our friendship and our relationship. We've

(11:08):
had a lot of fun times and we've we we
always mixed really well by sharing our stories and laughed
and you know, we we took some somewhat different routes,
sort of like you got into the pro side for
a while there. I was doing my thing and but
we always, we always came back to having our connection
and and that was so important to me. Right it
was one of the things that I valued beyond and then,

(11:31):
you know, every once in a while when when we're
trying to get ahold of each other and we can't,
it becomes like, Oh man, back in the day we
would have done that. That wasn't resentful, it was more
just understanding where we are. Do you remember trying to
get me to go snowboarding off? I do remember that. Like,
I'm actually studying the NFL right now. They won't let me.
I want to go do that, buddy. That that was.
That was a funny thing. I don't know, you know what,

(11:52):
but that was the time I was living in Colorado
and U unbeknownst to most of my bosses, we would finish,
we would finish our season probably middle of November, right
as scouts. So you were much more inside. You were
doing some pro works that you were in the building
and I had my my freedom. So I would get
the boulder and you got yeah, because I would be riding, snowboarding,

(12:15):
riding my ass off literally for months, because I would
just time it. I would get up in the morning
and I would get through mountains, I would get on
my snowboard for three or four hours, laughs, laughs, get
some hiking and I was like buzz by the time
I got to you. I might have two or three
cups of coffee. I'm on my way home and I'm
saying like are you not sky? You not get out here?
But Um, to know that I did that and I

(12:36):
embraced it's one of the things I do believe in, right,
embracing the journey. You know, you've always had that side
as well. Just to stay in the history here for
a minute, you have a wonderful wife. You and Tracy
I have such an admirable, admirable, excuse me, relationship, the
way that you approach things together. She's been such an
unbelievable part of how you guys have have moved through

(12:56):
your career. Um, in our relationship, we all we all
have a great time when we get together and it
means a lot to me. We got this thanks man
saying I appreciate you. We we admire your new van,
because we got to see your o Van. It was
two thousand and Tracy and I went and met you
for dinner at the California Pizza Company, which is closed now. Sorry,

(13:17):
otherwise we would have been up in that parking lot. Yeah, yeah,
I moved up a little yeah, a little bit ramped
up a little bit, but but that was nine or two.
It's two thousand. Yeah. Yeah, so if you were just
to describe your your job, your role in a couple
of sentences or more, what would that be? Okay, so

(13:38):
I always tell people just like, you know, managing in
the general fashion. Right. So I would never, you're never really.
The coaches go to coaching clinics and seminars and I
think they share a lot more information then then we
typically do. So I don't think anybody's truly truly prepared

(14:02):
for a general manager role what that means in two
different organizations. Right. But Um, you know, you're not really
necessarily prepared to have the you know, three d forty
pound guy that you're hugging that just, you know, whose
best friend just took his life like the night before
a game, or Um, you know, on the other extreme

(14:24):
like uh, you know, having to have to reprimand a
player because he's, you know, not picking up his dog
crap and at his apartment right and the neighbors are
upset to her, you know, Um, just all of the UH,
the random things that go into it, beyond the evaluating

(14:45):
of people in general, which you know sometimes, you know,
I know it's our job, but it you know, it
can it can be uncomfortable from a Um like you
feel like you're judging people all the time, you know,
and so I think you know whether you're you know,
you're evaluating, um. You know, you know, people in the

(15:07):
video on, the video staff or the grounds crew or
the coaches or the you know, your own staff, the scouts, UM, everybody. Um.
And then what that self reflection is right, every day. Okay,
how do I am? I am I doing a good job? Right?
Am I handling am I keeping up with Pete, for instance,

(15:29):
who's twenty years older than me and is like in
phenomenal shape and like, you know, like just has a
bundle of energy. Right, just like trying to keep up
with him. Um. But yeah, I think just, Um, trying
to stay positive and keeping keeping, keeping the hammer down

(15:49):
and just pushing and pushing and pushing in all aspects
of everything we're doing. Well, you, you you made a
point there as well. You know, there's an element of us. So, yes,
those of us who had jobs that were very all consuming.
It wasn't just we weren't just the personnel. Gm Not
saying there's anything wrong with that? Are Some that are GMS,
that around the road and they spend a lot of

(16:10):
time and that's their world. You're the team builder, evaluator,
acquisition person, but if you're in organizations like you are,
and I was, the expectations were really big. As far
as you know, it was. It was wide ranging and
it was enervating. It became it became complicated. Yet I
grew and learned a lot. Learned a lot, of course,
like right, I mean managing people, managing situations. But I

(16:34):
do want to go back to what you said about evaluating,
because you're doing all that and you have a ton
of a ton on your plate. You really just want
to get in front of that monitor and watch players
at a certain time in a day, right, like, all
I really want to do is evaluate. People used to
say the line used to be in in our world,
throw a dip in. I never dipped. Okay, O, good.

(16:56):
So you know that's what you want to do. The
really interesting side to evaluation, and I think this is
the time to talk about it. You know, those of
us who love doing it and took a lot of
pride and thought, you know, quietly, we were excellent at
what we did um it. It did sort of flow
into our lives and you become you start thinking, man,

(17:17):
I blink that I can go into my relationship with
Mimi or I can go into my kid's relationship or
the person at the grocery store, like, I haven't figured out.
That's a complicated thing when everything you're doing is your
mind isn't evaluate, evaluation mind, at least in our world. Why?
Why is that? It's a really it was an odd
thing for me because that did become enervating at times

(17:40):
where I just wanted to stop my mind a little bit.
and has that changed now? Do you? Do you feel?
Do you feel like a necessarily a freedom, but like
it's like Um, like a lift. It is a lift.
I mean I would say I yeah, I think I
still have that. I never want to lose it, right.
It's it's what me me sharp, it's what made me

(18:02):
a depth at what I did, not only, I think,
as an evaluator, but also as a manager, and so
I think if I know that I'll never lose that.
It's like those those guys that are fighters, right, and
they haven't fought in thirty years or twenty years. They
worry that Ja Glazers of the world. They worry someone
pushes them and they haven't fought for a while, that
they are they going to be able to respond, or

(18:22):
are they going to be that owner that has five
body gutters around them that they think, I just need
someone else to help me. So I think I am
enjoying the ride, literally and figuratively, Um, and I am
calming down on that a little bit, but I think
it's still there. Yeah, because that's a hard that's a
that's a that's the hardest part, I think. You know,

(18:43):
it's really Um that you know you were again where
you feel like you're like you're just judging people all
the time, you know, and it's like, Jeez, break, you
know what I mean, like that's right, you know, but
there is there. There isn't. There is no break, because
you're it's it's always a the organization. Where's the organization moving?
and WHO's getting heavier? Yes, and who's WHO's WHO's getting lighter?

(19:07):
WHO's lightning the load? That's right, you have speaking of,
you know, relationships and you know kind of what we're
talking about, evaluating and and looking at how things are
playing out within your organization, which is where I want
to go next? You have a again, like you do
with Tracy, as far as relationships with your head coach,

(19:28):
Pete Carroll, who's one of the very best in the
league and most accomplished over these years, and it's it's
been fun watching that from afar. I take a lot
of pride in both of my relationships, one with Mike
Smith and one with a good friend of yours, Dan Quinn.
I loved both of the relationships. They of course had
their challenges, like anything. Talk to us about how you
manage and and thrive in a relationship with such a

(19:50):
strong personality and an energetic personality as as you do
with Pete Carroll. Wow, that's really good u. You know,
I think, I think, really I was tracy. Tracy and
I were blessed at that time of the timing of everything.
We had worked out here before in two thousand Um

(20:12):
and then went to work with Marty Schottenheimer in Washington
and then back to Green Bay for a number of
years Um. And then, you know, Pete had gone through
that period where he was out of the League and
spending time with coach wooden and figuring out who he
was in his core, and so when we got together,
he was like, you know, I want to I want

(20:34):
to have to say and the WHO the general manager
is going to be. I want to have you know,
I have strong opinions. I want to have input into
what I'm doing. The previous places he had worked out
in the NFL, he didn't feel like that and then
they had so much success at SC after he had
like okay, who am I was like, okay, I'm a competitor.
He learned that, you know, and he again spent time
with coach wooden and really like honed himself in and

(20:57):
then they you saw all the success they had at
SC and all the number one draft picks. When we
got together he was basically like, you know, I want
this to be I want this to be the best
marriage that they can be. Right. So, you know, that's
like right. I mean marriage is every day. There's an

(21:17):
everyday negotiation, and so we have our we have our
periods where, you know, we we just we try to
have fun a because we're gonna working our tails off
no matter what. And then, Um, you know, not let
people necessarily see like, you know, the conflict we kind
of you know, we can keep it separate. Um, and

(21:41):
then we're just both mike or like minded and the
fact that like okay, what, what are we what are
we doing to get better? So, like in tracing those
it's like if I go on a vacation or something,
I'm just like what, what? What are we doing today
in peace, like the same way he goes. He goes
to Hawaii and he's like, you know, calling me at
like seven o'clock in the morning and I'll be like,

(22:02):
but what time is it there, Bro you know. But
really with Pete, he's been, he's he's he's really been Um.
He caught him at this really cool time and his
in in his life post S. see it happened before
s ce, but like really into the leadership, really into
who he was Um, and that helped me where I

(22:24):
wasn't in my in my career too. Right, like wow,
I can just I'm just gonna, just gonna be myself. Yeah,
I finally had this opportunity. I'm gonna do it like
do it your way. do it your way again. Look,
I I mean again. I love that and I and
I you were talking about Pete when he was out
for a bit, and and the people that have told

(22:44):
me during this time you know really, you know, take
your time, the introspective time that is so important, back
to finding yourself because, look, we all know we're very
different than we were when we were, when we first
got in, thirty five in the middle of it all,
forty five, when we're rising, asked we're GM s and
there's a lot going on and uh, you know. And

(23:05):
where I am now, at fifty four, which I can't
believe that I got this job when I was forty,
but that former job when I was forty and all
of a sudden I'm fifty four. You know, it's a
it's a crazy I mean, everyone knows that things fly,
but I've I've often asked people tell me your mantra
when I interview them. Do you have a mantra? These
are the year olds versus thet versus the fifty four

(23:30):
year old, because our mantras change and what's kind of
guiding us in our maybe mission statements are adjusted, and
I think that that comes to to me. It comes
to me something I've thought a lot about and that's
an awareness. Right, it's an awareness of where you are,
and I think this time has been important. I would
say if I if I look back the one thing

(23:50):
I will share to John is the last two years
I got to a spot where I was thinking a
lot more about legacy and I was thinking a lot
more about mentoring, and those were really, really important for
me and that's why, honestly, yes, it was tough getting fired,
meaning I didn't expect it to happen. We go into
that another time, um. But when it happened, I stepped

(24:11):
back and those were some of the things that I
was gonna Miss. Of course I was going to miss
the team building and putting together, hopefully, a championship caliber
football team, because I love that. But the idea of
thinking that I was going to continue to help some
of these rising younger executives or the underrepresented, which we'll
talk about, you know, a little bit later. I was
excited about that and then all of a sudden stopped.

(24:32):
And so this idea of moving around the country and
visiting with other general managers and really digging in and
thinking about it is going to be important for my growth. Um. So,
as GMS, we've had a lot of hits and we've
had a lot of missus right, that's just that's the
way it is. It's not a perfect science. Um. You

(24:52):
have had, had a lot of hits and a lot
of really cool moves. I think about some of mine
that were really good and I think about the others
that we're challenging and I've talked about them in other,
you know, other conversations and we don't need to get
into specific names right now. It's not it's not important
Um as much as when you do have those misses,
um whether their acquisition misses or whether they're they're they're

(25:15):
decisions made within the organization that were, you know, mainly
your decisions, yours, and pizza, of course, because just like
Dan and I and Smithy and I, we always we
claimed every big decision that they were they were both
of ours. But when you have those, how do you
share with your rank order and your mid management group
by again keeping their morale up, do you communicate? Are

(25:36):
you a transparent decision maker, meaning are you sharing? Do
you sit down and say look, I know that didn't
go well? Do you share that with one or two
people that are really close to you so you help
them grow very quickly? Before, when I first got into this,
I used to sit less sneed and Dave Calwell, formerly
of the Jacksonville Taguars and less, of course, with L A.
I would sit down with them. I never bothered sharing

(25:58):
with them the good things that were happening. I just
and it wasn't it wasn't like stressed the negativity at all,
stressing the negativity. It was more I want to share
with you, guys what I just honestly fucked up, and
you can blank that out, because that's what it was.
I literally I want to say, look, I mess that up,
I would never do that again and this is why.

(26:18):
And I thought that was the most helpful for them.
So what is your stance on that? No, it's cool,
because I'm very transparent. Um, yeah, there's a lot of
times where I want I want them, you know, the staff,
shielded from specific things that we have going on and
I don't want to, I don't want them to, you know,
bear the burden. Um, I feel like that's there's certain

(26:42):
you know, you know, aspect of leadership where if you're
not necessarily putting that on somebody else, but I want
all of you know, and I'll just take my immediate staff,
like you're talking about, Dave, and last when those guys
are you know. So, for instance, like in our draft meetings.
You know, when we're going through, everybody up. You know,

(27:04):
we've watching film and Abab looking at stuff and I'm
like looking at my notes and I'm like Je's and
I'm I'm like looking at our grades and I'm like,
you know, I'll have like a really high grade on
the guy and everybody can see you have the grades
on the screen right. So you know, I'm kind of
like a second, a second, looking at, looking at were

(27:24):
watching or studying this guy and I'm like, I was
I watching the wrong guy or something. So I always
joked with those guys like well, I must have been
a hell of a day for me when I was
at mad coming out. You know, I love that. I
love so I'm like, I don't. Yeah, Um, and and
that puts everybody else at ease because, like I said,
we don't we don't feel like we have all the

(27:44):
answers until, you know, we locked that door for the
draft and and then from you know, like the bigger
trades we've made. You know, we traded for an individual
and made hm the highest paid player on our team
and I would and I would I would never ever
do that again. Um Um just didn't know it philosophically
at the time when I was what we were doing. Like,
I mean, we knew we were doing, but not we

(28:06):
should have known better. So let me ask you to
that point, without going into details again, when I look
back on the majority of mistakes I've I've made, John
over those years, most of them were driven towards like
excessive need or the the want to sort of accomplish
the idea of taking care of that need. And they

(28:27):
two of them that are on my mind right now
and I'll mention them. It was VIC Beasley. Unfortunately, Vick
did some really good things, of course, won the sack
title in sixteen, and then plummeted and then just disappeared.
Another one was another defensive end who I thought was,
you know, really good, and they it's it's interesting that
they both ended up being defensive ends. Right, and because

(28:48):
pass rushers, right, exactly, because the need was there and
I realized and then I started looking back, and I'm
thinking any any of them, not even the first rounders,
but a number of those mid round guys, in late
round guy, as we were pressing, we just we needed
that speed or that athleticism, we needed that power guy
and we pressed those are the ones oftentimes that, you know,

(29:09):
we saw other things that weren't that good, but we
pressed because they had one or two or three traits
that we thought we're gonna be beneficial and they ended
up following by the wayside. And I hated that because
deep down I knew what are we doing here? This
guy is a Um, not a worker, he's had injuries,
he's older and, you know, he's really not that football smart.

(29:30):
I mean that's a tough, tough deal to go into,
but he runs fast, he can get around the corner
and man, that's what we need. Yeah, so like recognizing
that right and being able to talk to your talk
to your staff about it, because they're the first ones
that are gonna like if you know about it, they
know about it right and Um, you know what, what? What?

(29:52):
What are we doing to help the staff know that,
whether it's, you know, the coaches and the personnel guys,
like Hey, we're not, we're not gonna make that mistake again.
You know, we've we've passed on Um and I'll say
this like I think you know, studying the person this
year we only had three picks right, and so it
was like, okay, we got to nail the people, guys

(30:15):
like because, you know, I personally didn't think it was
gonna be you know, with covid and everything. I thought
the draft was gonna be just all over the place
right and we were going to have the tools we've
had in the past. So I knew we weren'tna be
moving around necessarily because our board didn't look that great.
So the person right, like really got into that, guys.

(30:35):
We got to know who the person is and in
the past, to your point, we've, you know, taking the
talent over the core, like who is the WHO? Who
is the guy? WHO's the person? And that's, you know,
not kind of. That's what we try to keep coming
back to. Yeah, but he's four to six, no question

(30:56):
with you. Yeah, I'm with you. But is he gonna
be there every day? Well, this is my this is
my chance. This is my chance to throw in a
little bit of a friendly dig to our our contemporaries,
not our contemporary sorry that the coaching staff. I'm talking
about the heads. I'm talking about that happens often with coaches.
The reality is they're they're thinking much more myopically than

(31:17):
we are right. So we're thinking five years down the road,
you have a coach, DB coach or the linebacker coach,
receiver coach. They know we need and they're like, AH,
he's good, he's really good, he's fine, we're good. I
spent two minutes with him at his school. He's ready
to go. I'm thinking, wait a minute, two minutes. But
I get your point about people. Here's what's really interesting,

(31:39):
not only the group that I've already interviewed with most recently,
but the group Um, probably our our age group, GMS
more and more, and without mentioning names, because you know
they're all our buddies, whether it's Howie Roseman or whoever
else it is around, guys we've had a lot of
fun with and who are who are pretty upbeat. You know, uh,

(32:00):
idable you know when things go awry. I mean it's
kind of people continue to say to me, I am
done with trying to to go after that guy who
has a B and C, N X, Y and Z
as far as movement and talent, but aren't the people
that we're looking for. Don't have the core, don't have
the team makeup that Pete Carroll is looking for. Asked

(32:20):
Dan Quinn or someone otherwise, you know you're you're literally
you know, you're you're just, you're chasing your tail. And
I think more and more I hear that. I don't
hear it from the first, second, fourth year GM, I'm
hearing from the double digit GMS who are like, I
am so over this. So, you know, we passed, and
you know, competitions, the you know the theme, what you

(32:42):
went through, all the stuff that Dan had right, yes,
the exact same thing. Competition is the primary theme of
our our operation, right, and we passed. I can't give
you the year, sorry, but we passed on the guy
that we we felt was the most competitive player in
the draft, you know, and we passed on them for hey,
we're gonna take a guy and this is how we're

(33:03):
gonna use them and it's gonna be unbelievable. To your point,
you know, this is how we're gonna use him, John,
and I'm like wow, that sounds phenomenal, but we're not
taking the guy that we think is so, you know,
I had these whispers right like you know, hey, all right,
we'll shoot, we can have that player in that player
on the field at the same time. That's gonna be amazing. Well,

(33:26):
you know, getting back to like showing up right, like
WHO's gonna show up? So you know the guy that
is what everybody's viewed in that room, is the top
competitor in his position in the draft we passed on.
And now we get to a point where, to your point,
like I'm we're never we're never doing that again. No,

(33:48):
he runs four, one, three, but sometimes it helps when
it's on your watch, right. I remember with Dan Quinn
and I we should talk about this all the time
and I would. I would start talking a little bit
about my time with Smitty and and all due respect
to Mike Smith and and to Dan Quinn, Dan was hey.
I appreciate that this is a new regime and it

(34:10):
wasn't like we were dwelling on it, but I was
trying to use my history because I had been there
seven years prior than than before Dan got there. Once
they started happening on my end, Dan's clock together, it
meant that much more. It was like, I get it,
that happened. So that's where I continue to think about
experiences with you know, again you could roll into the

(34:31):
whole idea of longevity and the teams that have really
good systems in place may have some up and downs.
You know, their their organizations out there, without mentioning them who,
you know, have had three losing seasons. They've kept their people,
head coaches for sure, and general managers, and they've gotten
through those tough spots and they've learned. And there's something

(34:53):
about learning right that that matches nothing else the experience
that we have. You know, you're exponentially better as a
GM out then you were in those first three years.
Shot Right. I mean, I mean, yeah, Tom Almost almost
called your tomy. Sorry, you can call me anything you
want today. No, I mean if you if you remember,
I mean like so I was twenty nine years old

(35:16):
and you know, I was supposed to be you know,
like I went to Washington basically with party Shott and
hiber and, you know, like guns blazing, got all the
answers right it. Wow, it wasn't even close. Like, you know,
I look at that person at that age. What you're
saying is you were perceived as young, up and coming

(35:37):
Stud in this business. You're trying to be humble, but
that's what you know. I get that. I remember that. Okay,
it was like yeah, and all of a sudden you
started lifting to other people and you're like yeah, I
got this, man, I totally got this. Confidence was high,
but I can't imagine, like back then, like I was
not prepared, like, you know, like anywhere near you know,

(36:00):
the way I was so to get fired and then
like pick yourself back up, like, you know, okay, who
am I? Yes, where are we going? So, as a
GM we've shared again our fair share of controversies within
the organization. Again, they could be acquisition related, they could
be Um, they could be outspoken players within your organization.

(36:26):
Now mentioning names again. My God, I know that the
listeners are gonna want to know, like, what are these
names you keep talking about? But bigger picture, because this
I continue to say, like I have this goal for
this to like go global, and you know, people over there,
all over the world, don't necessarily know every player on
your roster. So we don't need to go there. Bigger picture, however,

(36:47):
how do do you think you have a really good knack,
you n and Pete, to navigate the controversies that may,
you know, circulate around Your Organization at times? I would say.
I would say that everyone's totally different, but yeah, like
every situation is so completely different and you know, Um,

(37:09):
there's a lot of times where you know you can
use you know, your past experiences right. So, God rest
his soul. I, Um, I tell people all the time
I'm gonna go I think I'm going Ted Thompson on
this one, you know, which means like you're just gonna
be quiet, stoic, not say a word. He's gonna let

(37:29):
it go. Or, you know what, I'm gonna go Ron
Wolf on this one and just let it rip and
just like okay, this is the way it is. And
you know, Um, two amazing people, by the way. People
like how you so my point is like, you know, navigating.
You know, we've had stuff, you know, in the past,
out in the media and and I would say, you know, Um,

(37:55):
I do lean on pe a ton with that because
you know he used, you know, the head coach in
the quarterback there's two most important people in the building.
In my opinion. That's just, you know, philosophically like those
those guys, you know they are. They're out in front
of the team every single day. You and I don't
have to do it, you know, we can do our jobs.
We have to do our jobs kind of behind closed doors.

(38:16):
But you know those guys, those guys so I do
lean on Pete a lot for Um. You know, when
you have the controversy, and I'll say this, when when
you know we went to Um, you know, those back
to back super bowls, and you know one, the first one,
you know the second one will go down is probably
one of the most controversial losses right. And and Um,

(38:40):
and the way pete handled the team was amazing that
year to get back to the divisional round after that,
because the team was so fractured and people um wanted
people from, you know, Um within the organization, outside the organization.
They want you to fail, right. And so I don't

(39:00):
know if you remember this, we had like monster articles,
you know, ten pages, you know, Wall Street Journal, basically
like articles written about like, you know, I can't find players,
Pete King, coach, Um. You know, the quarterback doesn't do this. Uh,
you know, the corner doesn't do this. Like just people
like trying to pack away, pack away, pack away, but

(39:23):
we just like stayed in our avenue, didn't respond. You know,
we're just like we're just like okay, it's gonna make
us stronger. And that's where I would say, Um, where
Pete is so amazing is, like he can just, you know,
like there's Times I'll come into work where we've had
this crazy stuff happening the night before, you know, and

(39:44):
I'm like, you know, thinking about right time, and he's
like hey, morn to Johnny, you know, and I'm like
what about? What about what we just happened last night? Everything?
Are you okay? You're good, and be like yeah, we
got this, man, this is let's roll. Yeah, that's impressive.
Let's roll. Yeah, that's impressive. That's impressive. He's he's I

(40:06):
mean he's you know, he's he's just, you know, he's
he's just a positive guy. Is always like yeah, you know,
something positive. I always think something positive, like it is
going to happen around the corner every ten minutes and
I'm like wow. And that's where our marriage is different, right, because, um,
he's always like, oh, I don't be going to Catholic

(40:26):
com mean now, you know, because I'm like like my
what drives me is the worry of us not doing enough,
where he's like, Oh my God, we're be great, we
got this. Do you think that a head coach, even
though you are responsible bringing in the ninety and the
acquisition side of the world, you know, of course, of
course Pete isn't involved and wants to be involved. That's

(40:47):
very appropriate and applicable to our conversation. Dan Quinn was
the same way. I mean he was he came in
and he was very understanding and open to learning more
about the positions he hadn't studied, you know, as a decordinator. Yeah,
and I always thought, I've always thought this, that if
you have that head coach, even though he's relying on
you to pull that team together for the most part,

(41:10):
do you think they should have, um, I hate, final
say on that. So if, if someone is a quarterback
background head coach, I. E. Kyle Shanahan, should he have
final say over that position more than John Lynch and
the GM? I think, I think it's just natural, Lena,

(41:30):
on that right. You're kind of silly not to so, like,
you know, you can't let your ego be the enemy, right. Okay, so, no, just, yeah,
just just that thought. that. Okay, okay, Pete's coached, you know, um,
Aaron Glenn and and Uh Carl Lee and you know,

(41:53):
like I'm gonna, you know, I'm going to defer at
a certain point, like you know, I'm really dug in, like, Hey, know,
the cool thing about us is that we always go back,
like we joke about it, like I went back and
didn't their study, you know, like he jokes with me that.
Now he's like Hey, John, Anne went back and didn't

(42:14):
know their study and Uh, I don't know, man, I
don't know if we got this one right. And I'm like, okay,
how many studies are we gonna do with this guy?
But no, but like we will go back and watch
it together and be like and then come away from
it like hey, you know, we just we just saw
the same thing right. So well. I think that's all

(42:34):
about the partnership, and this comes back to something I believe.
I mean in this league there's no way you're surviving
without a GM and head coaching relationship that that is
thriving and understand that. You know it's it's there's a
mutual understanding, uh, and a respect for your trade and
you respecting his trade at the core. Um, you know,

(42:54):
look there there, and I think a lot of people
don't know this. They just assumed that a GM who's
responsible for acquisitions and the head coach is responsible, I'm
generalizing here, to coach the team, that the GM is
gonna say no, boom, this is what we're doing. This
is ridiculous. That is that is ridiculous, first of all,
and it doesn't really matter who has final football say
or not it. I in any of my time with

(43:17):
Smitty and and Dan, I never was trying to force feed.
I would be if I felt very strongly about a player.
No question I would continue to, you know, either bring
bids into it or nowadays we were so much more
advanced on the analytics side. That can supplement you know,
Supplement that. That that coach who might say no, well,

(43:37):
I'm just feeling into my gun. I'm like, well, your guts, great,
I appreciate it, but the reality is here's twenty different,
you know, elements here from an analytics perspective that is
saying otherwise, can we please revisit? And I think that's
where our league is evolving too. I love that about
our league, that there is a good form of communication
and most people believe that is important. I had one

(44:00):
and I won't, I won't necessarily go into detail, but
I had an executive, a former executive, say, Thomas, you
need to have a massive amount of contention between yourself
and your head coach. To get things done. Uh, never,
I would never agree to that. I know you don't
know and I've worked with you know. Shoot, I mean,
you know, watching coach Holmgren and Ron was pretty that

(44:22):
was pretty cool, right. And then going work directly with
Marty Schottenheimer. Right, like I'm thinking to myself, you know,
I was playing with Star Wars Action Figures when he
was coaching the Cleveland Browns, you know what I mean.
And here I am having an argument with him. And
and when we were in Washington, you know, he the
funny story. He came to my door, got rest his

(44:42):
so I less. I miss him and Um, but he
came to my door one day and he's like Hey, kid.
He knocked on the doors like a kid. It's like
ten o'clock. I want to claim somebody. And you know, Um,
we were kind of weird arguing about her Bush throughout
the day and Um, and uh, he knocked at my doores.
I can't guess what I'm like what he's like. We're

(45:03):
not going to claim I'm like, Oh, why? I don't know.
He goes, how do you say it? He is uh,
we're not going to claim that guy. I'm like really, really,
he's like, yeah, you want to know why? He's like
says that my contract. Okay, all right, so we're not

(45:26):
at that point. You knew. Yeah, that's that's what a good,
good example, and you know which is we've talked about
this and I don't know, they probably won't use this
again because if I talked about I used to look
at that relationship between a j Smith and Marty Schottenheimer,
two amazing football people who were always at loggerheads and
they were both really good football people when they're in
San Diego and I thought I never want to have that.

(45:49):
I want to have the best relationship, albeit you know
there's gonna be discussions and debate, which is healthy, but
the respect that you're not going down one end of
the hall and someone's going to the other and they're
avoiding I would want nothing to do with that. It
is that's a perfect, perfect definition. It is creepy. Now, look,
if you could share one thing with the rising executives,

(46:10):
one thing that you would have done differently, these can
be more quick hitters that you would have done differently
before you got to the NFL. I'm talking about in
your formative years, are all the way through college. What
would that be. Well, it's so different now, right, like,
you know, we get these resumes where you guys have
their Masters and Sports Administration, and that really didn't exist

(46:32):
when when we were coming out. Right. So, what's gonna
what's gonna Separate? You're gonna think about what's gonna separate.
I say, okay, here you go. Well, what's gonna separate
you from the next guy? Right, Um, you know, uh,
like we said, like nobody's training us to do this. Now.
What we do have going on is, like, you know,

(46:53):
these bigger organizations now, Ohio states and and the Alabama's
and the CLEMSON's have their own personnelity partment. Right, so
you can go there and like guys could come out
of that. But, like, what is really what can you
take to Thomas Demitry to tell him, to show him
that you're different and that you're gonna make it, you're

(47:13):
gonna make a difference for the organization and that you're
you're gonna be you're gonna bring it every day and
you're gonna be special. Did you so to that point?
Did you do? Would you have done more of differentiating
yourself from people during those years? And I know that's
a tough one, because I would ask you, would you
have gone to a different school? Would you have studied
something different? Maybe that's what you're alluding to, you know,

(47:36):
which is a is a is kind of my next question,
if you're talking about that Middle Management Group within your organization. Yeah,
so that to your point. My Son Jack wants to
do well, I want to do what you do. I'm like, well,
that's that's great. So, yeah, now you can go to
those schools. All right, we'll start looking at the schools
that had, you know, big personal apartments. You know, I

(47:58):
hope we can get hooked up in there, you know,
and but you got to like work your tail off,
you gotta. You know, mine was mine was really like,
you know, I'm just gonna pray my my butt off,
I'm gonna work my butt off, and that was it.
Like the two gifts. You know that, Um, you know,
my two best gets. My My folks gave me right
like work, ethic and faith. And so yeah, I was

(48:22):
like that was that was back then. You know. Your
question about middle management was what what would you do different? Well,
I mean middle management more is okay. You have people
within your group that you think this this this person
might have a chance to be a senior level executive
and maybe run the organization as a as a GM president,

(48:44):
whatever the end vogue titles are now that you all have.
I never could get Richard Kay to give me a
VP of something. Wasn't that difficult, rich? I mean you
know you already had the CEO title. Anyway, all joking aside,
rich you're you're a good guy. Thanks for giving me
everything you've given me. No, I I think the Middle

(49:05):
Management Group right, like. Okay, now, I love that because
I'm a big believer and again, differentiating. I've always said
to people, you you know when you're going, when you're
going for that interview or we're when you're trying to
impress upon me as a general manager. There has to
be something that separates you. The caveat, however, is you
can't be the non team player. That's complicated. You can't

(49:26):
be the guy that's stumping or Gal who's thumping their chest,
doing whatever and trying to get to that job circuitously
right and doing things behind people's backs. You have to
be you have to be a team player, but you
have to differentiate. That's complicated. That's complicated. What's happened to
us and and my more of our guys haven't moved

(49:49):
on quicker is because when they go for an interview
they don't have that just one expertise because we share everything.
College counting, I was scouting. You know, everybody. Thing's kind
of mixed in there. Not Damn Morgan moved on. Fits
moved on at dodds. You know some guys. But when
like Trent Kershner and and fit we're going for these interviews,

(50:13):
it was like well, they're like what do you you know?
An owner would say, well, what's your you know, Mr
Tepper called me and he's like well, but this guy
is really a cotlage guy right. Like well, he tells
me he's involved with everything. You know, is that? Is
that true? He's gotta edge to him. He's pretty funny.
But and I'm like yeah, he's he's involved in everything.

(50:33):
He doesn't have one specific expertise. You you want a
general manager who has just one just you can hire
an evaluator or you can hire somebody who's gonna be
able handle a number of different things. And Scott's gonna
be really calm thoughtful decision maker. He's not, you know,
and you have a mix of people. But you know, Um,
for a while they're like, you know, Trent was just

(50:56):
doing pro scouting, fit was just doing college scouting, and
then we ended up like just mixing it and that's
when I kind of opened more stuff up to try
to help those guys. But everybody in our staff, you
want them to Um, have those goals to be a
general manager, right. We're like your coaching staff like to
be a head coach. That's maybe where that complacency part

(51:18):
comes in, and it's like they're not complacent, they want
to learn. You know, this time of the year when
you're doing job reviews and everything, right, new contracts for everybody,
they all want more, which is cool, like I want
more responsibility. Awesome. Well, I love that. I mean back
in the day, you know, way back, I mean we
were we would think, okay, I want to be the
best personnel director ever talk more and more about it.

(51:40):
I would ask that over the last few years around
the table again, and everyone put double hands up when
I asked it. Wants to be a GM, they all
think now, because they look at John Schnyder and they're
like man, this guy's got this guy's got personnel background
and that's that's I mean, that's what I want to
be like. I mean, I'm not, you know, as you
were call those old days when you would have exact
it has come through. Hired the personnel directors didn't have

(52:02):
the background that we had. You know, that's changed. There's
a couple here and there, of course, but everyone's looking
at you, they're looking at people who have that background
and personnel and they're they're like, man, I want to
learn as much as I can and have that opportunity
to do that. Thomas, my background was so random and
I was so blessed because, you know, Ron Wolf and

(52:23):
Ted Thompson, I love to get out and scout right.
So here I was at, you know, to twenty three
years old and I'm the only one in the office
with coach Hols big, who's who's a pretty intimidating dude right,
you know, and managing doctors and setting up workouts and

(52:46):
doing all that kind of stuff. So I always telpt.
They're always like, well, how did you get well, I'm like,
I was just honestly, the timing of it was crazy.
They both love to get out and scout and they'd
call in and coach Holm went to my ass and
you know, it's great. So you you should joke about that.
He lives in town and we always joke about this player. Yeah,

(53:07):
he brought in and he's like, you know, hey, you
know ron and left, and so I brought the player
in and the guy totally screwed up practice and hit
Brett farm and stuff. You know, it's one of those
Ye man, that was yeah, I just got he just
got all over me. If you get an inch close
to Brett farve or those, yeah, those old, those old

(53:28):
school coaches, man, they would they would rip. And I
come up with belly button too. Right. So he's just
standing over me getting on me right, you know, in
front of the whole team. Just who brought this guy
in here? You want to see you after practice? You're like,
you know, we can do it, we can do it
right here. So like, okay, here's another thing. No, no,

(53:52):
it's good. You've been a significant part of the G
M A C general manager's Advisory Committee for a number
of years. You and I had a great opportunity to
spend a lot of time, I'm during that and I
categorize you as being thoughtfully opinionated. Another really semantically responsible
the delivery here, but that that's where you were and
everyone wanted to hear what you had to say. And, uh,

(54:14):
even if you were driving, because you you were driving
more times than not when we were on those of them. Yeah, no,
I'm probably not. I'm not exactly. I think I texted
you a couple of times like hey, let them y'
y's exactly, and we would. By the way, I remember those,
some of those texts when every once in a while
we yes, but then there were some other ones that

(54:37):
you know there. It's just the way that that worked.
It was it's a really important committee for the League's
I'm blessed that you know uh and and feel very
proud that I was a part of it. I'm sure
you are. I believe that general managers have a really
important place in sort of policy and procedures in this
league and we shouldn't in any way be um marginalized.

(55:01):
I'm not saying that GMS are, but to prevent that
from happening, what do you think the general manager's role
is versus a head coach and or an owner or
a president? Do you think that GM should have a
really important part in the league and to say in
the League outside, you know, when we weren't those big
boy meetings, and there's a lot going on. There's a

(55:22):
lot of big time egos there and a lot of intelligence.
Do you think that GM should be able to get
up there and get on that that microphone right right
next to your head coach? He does a great job
and he hill microphone. The microphone is right over by us,
right near you. Yeah, do you do you think that
we that's our place, your place now. I do. I

(55:43):
do you know, because I think that again, we're we're
studying everybody. Right, you're leading up, you're leading down, you're
leading to cross, you're you're you're not necessarily managing the
head coach, but you're, you know, in locks up with
the head coach. So you're you're understanding what's what they're
what he's thinking and, Um, you know what's worked hasn't worked. Um.

(56:04):
And then you know leading up right. Um, you know
leading up, you know with you know, Um, the different
all the different personalities. Um, like I told you earlier,
working with working for Mr Allen was and it was
pretty tense. He wasn't really involved in the League. So
he but you want to know exactly what was going on.
So he wouldn't, he wouldn't necessarily go to the League

(56:24):
meetings when I'm at so, but I think, I think,
but yeah, I think it's I think it's important. Um,
I will say this that you know, I think you
know the head coaches again, are out there so much.
You know, and you know in the media and on
TV and in front of the players in all the time.
And you know the owners are. It's it's their deal right. So, Um,

(56:48):
I guess my my point would be there's it's one
of the reasons, uh, that I wanted to do these
conversations across the country. There is so much intelligence and
insight from the general managers and the League that I
personally don't believe is tapped into enough. That to me
saying that. You don't have to agree with that or disagree.
I believe that there are some there are some really,

(57:09):
really intelligent people in that role that and I know
by you know. Look, a general manager shouldn't be out
there as much as a head coach or owner. I
get that. But make sure, if again, this is my
own again not proselytizing to owners, but this is my
own belief, make sure that you're really tapping into your

(57:30):
your general managers intelligence and their perspective, because they have
a different perspective than the than the President or the
head coach or the CEO or the business. Like. There's
a lot of information there that I think, no doubt.
And we're like this too, right, like yes, you're kind
of you get yes, you get tugged in so many

(57:51):
different directions. Right. So which is which? Knowing? Knowing like that,
the football organization, right, and that's you know, the football
organization is going to be, you know, selling tickets, that's right. Jerseys. Right.
So where is your stance on emerging technology, slash analytics,
slash the evolution of our League in general? Do you

(58:12):
like where we're headed? Are you, and I'll fold the
next question in, what is your biggest fear for the NFL?
So those are that's a two part yeah, I'm all
for from a from a competitive standpoint and making sure that,
you know, the game is the best that could possibly be,
whether that be the on the field or acquisition. Um,

(58:33):
what I don't personally don't want to have happen is
what we've seen it with Major League baseball with the shifts. Right,
you kind of now you kind of go to a
game and like, you know, the the second baseman's in
the middle of you right field or whatever. So, you know,
it's kind of you know, I I think we've gotta
be careful not to take it to a certain level

(58:54):
like that. Like I think, again, whatever we can do
to maximize the sport for the fans awesome. I don't
know how the gambling part comes in yet, right, like
what's that going to look like? You know what? People
on their phones at the game or they'll be watching
the game. I think they're watching, you know, just like
you know their phones or you know what what's? What's

(59:14):
that can look like, because there's nothing like a game
day experience, you know, nothing like going to along the
college games would go to like pretty cool. You know,
it's it's cool and and that's what I don't want
to lose. that. You don't mean that's the most important thing,
like you want? Yeah, do you want? You know, should
a fan be able to like get on this phone
or whatever and, you know, order a beer and hot
dog and, you know, abroad or whatever? And abroad, I

(59:37):
used Bro you used broad and I wonder what brought.
I haven't had that in a while. But but um, no,
but I think you know, it's advanced. You know, the
for us it's basically with acquisition. It's basically like a balance,
like is there something we're not seeing here? Yeah, no,
I remember, you know, studying a back and, you know,

(01:00:00):
I was like man, he's just got these big langings.
He's not really, you know, he's not. It just seems
like he's like you and I would refer to him
as just a lane runner, right, like he's a one
cut crease guy, right, and UH. And our analy these guys,
were like, well, actually, you know, he's the number one
back in the country for yards after contact behind the
line of scrimmage. And I was like, Oh way, again

(01:00:21):
looking through my stuff, like really, you know. and Um,
but sure enough, like going back and studying it, you know,
you're like, okay, that, that's that's legit. And now we
could pull those things up. Yes, you know, like you
just go right to it on the computer, right, and
you know, sort through it and everything right, like okay,
let's watch this guy behind the line of scrimmage after

(01:00:42):
every time he you know, what's he like? Every time
he gets gets hit behind the line of scrimmage. I wouldn't.
I would not. I truly believe this. I would not
have a job in the NFL today if it wasn't for,
you know, like with with this technology right now, because
I sat there and made these cut ups for for
the wolf, like hey, why don't you? Can you get

(01:01:02):
me every target that this guy hat so that he
could just grab the tape and watch it. Wasn't wasting
his time going through every single game. And I would
spend hours Gruden with John Gruden was doing that for
coach Harmer, and we bring these tapes into the video department.
Poor guys, you know, they'd have those stacks of paper
right and, given that, they'd sit there and they had

(01:01:22):
to sit there and go quick make the tape right now.
It's like I really literally did that for Ron like
maybe about a month ago. We were talking and I'm like,
check this out, I'm gonna pull up every deep ball
throwing on this corner I'm watching right now and I'm
like watch and I'm like I'm gonna hit enter right now,
and I went and the thing goes, you know, like

(01:01:44):
goes on eight seconds. There it is. He's like you
gotta be kidding me. There's no way you could do that.
And I'm like yeah, yeah, and I'm like you wouldn't
have hired me, like it's amazing, it is really a y.
But no, look, I mean I love that being able
to supplement where our world is and what your art

(01:02:05):
is and what your your traits are and what your
you know, your genius is. To be able to supplement
that would only, I think, continue to make you that
much better. Meaning, I've said this time and again, we
can't look at an owner like we did thirty years
ago and say it's in my gut, I just like
this guy, like what, seriously, give me some more, you know.

(01:02:26):
And so I I just I like that we're being
smarter about things and we're we're understanding that there's a place.
But then back to your point, not getting yeah, keeping
it in perspective, right, yeah, as long as you don't
get to like, you know, paralysis through analysis right where
you're just like okay, yes, there's there's enough here. So
I have two more questions here. One, this is the

(01:02:48):
Tim Ferriss sort of lifestyle guru question. A footnote him
all the time. Okay, the way, I know you think
I don't know these people, but Ryan Holliday, it was
a good people you got. You have connections. I know that. Um. So,
Tim Ferriss, more popular than you think, affable communicator, just

(01:03:10):
that genuinely generally great guy. Okay, but so tim Tim
Ferre's question. Um, what belief, approach, philosophy have you adopted
over the last three to five years that is changed
or adjusted your life? I'm not saying it has to
be a groundbreaker, but is there anything? Is it professional? Well,

(01:03:35):
could be professional, could be mind, body and soul. It
could be you know, you do look, you found the
right chair that you love. Like there anything? Is there
anything that you like that has changed your world over
the last three to five? So I would say not
necessarily like three to five years. I would just say
that having been come into our world is nineteen and
as autism, there's been a everyday journey for for Tracy

(01:03:59):
us off and and and his his his brother Jack,
you know. So, Um, that's always something that's just with
me all the time, just trying to figure figure out
like where we're going. Um, you know, I would say
I would say professionally. Um, you know, written. We got here.

(01:04:22):
I tried to be like real Um, more communicative, more
and more of a direct communicator with the players. Um, Um,
just from a personality standpoint. Some guys get took advantage
of that and I started feeling that. So I've kind
of backed off of that a little bit. Like there

(01:04:43):
is a there's a little bit of a difference, you know,
there is a yeah, you know, like Um, didn't you
had put didn't you put your your belt on you?
That was D q's idea. Actually it was. Yeah, it
was the day before and and K are. So we

(01:05:06):
went to get our picture taken, you know, the day
before the draft or the day before the Super Bowl
in New York, and like everybody was totally loose all week.
We had a great week of practice. And and UH
E K, Eric Kennedy, our equipment guy, you know, received
the belt, you know, from you know, the big W

(01:05:28):
W belt and all that, and we were all dressing
to go get our picture taken and UH E K
is like yeah, the guys are hey, man, you need
to like, you know, do you'r Chris Farley for everybody
or something, man, because the guys are like super tight
to day. And Dk is like or D Q was like, yeah,
I don't know what's going on. Me and the guys

(01:05:49):
are pretty wound up before the game and so they
were dressing and and, Um, so I had I had
literally had my like, you know, see how Polo and
my Khaki's on. It was like going to go in
there with the belt and he was like we gotta
take a shirt off. I'm like that good point, of
the worst decisions I've ever made. Man Like. I mean
went in there and we like started laughing, we start

(01:06:10):
having a great time and everything, Um, but then like
the players started pulling off their phones and stuff and
I'm like, oh my gosh, my mom's gonna see this.
This is so embarrassing. You know, I ended up UM
calling John Alway after the game and was like that
was not after the game, dude, that was yesterday, and

(01:06:31):
I was trying to like, you know, left the guy's
spirits and all this kind of stuff. Um, yeah, it was.
It was really embarrassing. And then like two minutes after
that we had like a fight on our team. That
um never got out in public, but that got out later,
but the pictures were out. Yeah, that was great. The
pictures are out in my belly and everything was really great.

(01:06:53):
Tracy didn't divorce me. You know, it was, it was great,
but that's what I mean. That's that's just that's you're
the only person in the league that could get away
with that because you're affable and communicative. That's a great
all around personality. No, I think it's it's it's a
it's a fun story, but it isn't that true. Right,
sometimes we do things and we're like, oh my gosh,
where we're going, which is a whole topic like that.

(01:07:15):
That's out like that last question. And my point with
my point with that was I kind of I have
to really concentrate on not taking things personally. I understand
with the players, with the negotiation with you know, like
a something of conflict or decision I have to make

(01:07:37):
where like, you know, you're like hey, man, like it's
a pretty good place, like you got a pretty good
here in the great northwest, like it's a great organization. Like,
you know, what's your deal? And so I would kind
of take that personally and to some of our mom
other you know, Um senior management kind of people who
are in the build and they've been like, you know,
they were kind of like, you know, we have noticed

(01:07:58):
guys took that a little. You know, you can take
things a little too personal and but that's part of
like that opening up to right like open up to you,
I'm giving you part of me and then you expect
the same back and you're not always going to get that. Well,
before we're going to the last question. This no, this
is a great, great point. I have personally struggled with

(01:08:19):
my expectations being grandiose and beyond what could probably or
should probably be accepted of myself and those around me.
Could be again back to the director group, could be
the head coach, could be the owner like. That's a
personality trait that I am truly trying to look at
because I think it's great to have high expectations, but

(01:08:41):
I think you have to keep those expectations in check
right so you are who you are and you expected
from other people. The reality is there are very, very
few people who have your affable personality, all the great
things that you have and the understanding and the and
the soul that you have. I've been thinking about that
because you start putting those expectations is out, it becomes
complicated because rarely will people live up to the expectations.

(01:09:04):
And then it adds a little bit of a damper
on what should be, in my mind, just a beautiful journey.
And you, you have a lot of great fortune and
not only what you've been through but what you're gonna
be doing in the future. It's funny. Do you say that?
So I just thought of the story. We had a
corner here last year and, you know, nobody was really around,
you know, face masks and all that, you know, and

(01:09:26):
all that world. And and I saw him in the
hallway and I was like, Hey, nice job today to practice.
I'm like, you know, make sure you stay after practice
a little bit and like keep working your feet, like
you know, Um, and and it's okay to ask a
DV coach, you know, you know, for a couple of
extra minutes. Don't, don't, don't be shy with that man,
but you have a really nice day to day and

(01:09:47):
off right there she's like thanks, like who the hell
is that? And so so then I see him like, Um,
he was a practice school guy, right. So he's sitting
there with like he was. He went to see Pete.
The way we do it when we release guys, like
I have him a Pete Asm and then we switch

(01:10:10):
like that and separate, separate offices, right. So they're here
in the same message and everything, and and he's sitting, Um,
he's sitting outside Pete's office and I went up to
him and I'm like again, we have a mass on
the right thing. And I'm like, I'm like, Hey, I'm
gonna get you in about Um, ten, fifteen minutes after
you're done with Pete. Um. But Dude, you get a
great camp, you're clear waivers. Gonna want to put you

(01:10:32):
back on our team or on our practice squad. We
get sixteen guys this year. It's you know, you have
a bright you have a bright feature. And he and
he and he pulls his face mask down. He goes,
Cask you a question. I'm like yeah, he goes, what
do you do here? Thank you so much. Thank you.
I mean, this is awesome. I mean, in the middle

(01:10:53):
of like you to think of something like this to
go do it. So thank you. I appreciate you. Okay, again,
I hope you enjoyed that. I mean, what a great guy.
He's the kind of guy that you really want to
hang out, have a few beers or a couple of
glasses of wine and just chill talk about all things,
not just book on sport but life in general. Again,

(01:11:15):
great time with my good friend John Schnyder around Seattle.
From there we're heading all the way back out from
Lake Washington to Lake Erie and we're gonna visit with
the up and coming GM Andrew Berry, is getting a
lot of lotting around the country for his ability to
be quantitative in his approach and very well thought out,

(01:11:36):
very intelligent guy. I think you guys would really enjoy
the contrast. You have been listening to the GM journey
with Thomas demitt trough. Continue to follow Thomas as he
interviews GMS from your favorite NFL teams. The GM journey
has been produced by Alan Castenbaum, Thomas Demittrough and Octagon Entertainment.

(01:11:59):
Don't forget to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify
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