Jon Robinson - GM Tennessee

Thomas takes the van to Nashville to visit with his former Patriot colleague and current Tennessee Titans GM, Jon Robinson.  Thomas and Jon discuss their history and Jon's unique situation with his owner and coach.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
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donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org
forward slash donate all right, Well, as you can imagine,

(00:41):
that was an emotional interview and time spent scheme time
my very good friend down in Phoenix again. Massively tough,
strong football dude through and through, and yet a sensitivity
that is beyond admirable. I love the guy and I
wish them all the success. Is going into the following season,
in season to be on, and I think he's going
to continue to hit it right in this league. Welcome

(01:05):
to the GM journey with Thomas Demtrof. As we do, however,
we will jump back across the country and head up
north and east a little bit to Nashville to visit
with Jay rob Or John Robinson, the GM in Nashville,
Tennessee Titans, a former New England guy, have a lot

(01:28):
of history with John Robinson. I have a great deal
of respect for him. He has a tough guy as well,
football guy through and through, very focused, a good man
and a good soul who wants to do it right.
He's been given the keys to the kingdom in Tennessee.
He's actually his approach and what the ownership in Tennessee

(01:48):
has done for him. And again, John Robinson having the
keys to the kingdom in Tennessee is a very coveted
position around the NFL. He does not have the battle
with anyone. His owner listens to him and trusts him
on all things football. He has a great relationship with
Mike Rabel, but in the end, he is in charge.

(02:09):
Check this one out. You will learn a lot about
how things should be run in the NFL from an
organization perspective. All right, Nashville, Tennessee with the kingpin of
this city, John Robinson, general manager, excited about having you.
Thanks for joining me. I appreciate you. Yeah, I appreciate
you too. You thanks for having me out here in
this uh the hemoth of a rig looking forward to chatting. Well,

(02:29):
look I pulled up and I thought I was a
badass with the vehicle here, and then I look over yours. Man,
I'm aspiring to get some some wheels and suspension like that.
It's a badass. Shelby looks good. Just got it right. Yeah,
I've had about four or five months and good friends
over at uh no free shout out Althreddick Brown for
to cure of me. And uh it's it's good. I

(02:50):
like I like it. So let's start by saying, John,
think about this. I know you do, and and most
of us have five years as a general manager, five
winning seasons, a lot of great things going on, playoff wins,
UM very very impressive. So when you look at that
right now and and you take it all into consideration,

(03:15):
how would you define your your leadership style. I try
to lead from the front um and and and never
ask anybody to to do something that that I'm not
willing to do myself. Um. I'm extremely hands on. UM,
I am fair, yet can be hard and and and

(03:37):
gruff at times. UM. I try to put my arm
around guys, players, coaches, scouts, trainers, video people, everybody that
I'm in charge of and love them up when you
know when they need loving and and coach them hard
when they need to be coached hard. I feel like
that's my responsibility, um, you know, as the you know,
as the guy leading the football team. So we were

(03:58):
talking last night a little bit about very fact leading
the football team. So John, you know, you have so
much knowledge. You're basically the omnipotent, omniscient guy within the organization.
You have a great head coach, he knows a lot
about football, but doesn't have the background that you have
from an administrative standpoint. In the team building standpoint, you
have an owner who is so well versed and been

(04:20):
raised in this business, but she's fairly new and in
her role respectfully of course, how does that feel? Does
that pressure pack for you? Um? Yeah, I mean to
a degree. But we have great conversations. Um, all three
of us were all on the same page with the
direction of of Amy's football team. And she's extremely instinctive. Um.

(04:42):
And she's done an outstanding job over the last five
years after becoming a controlling owner of changing the direction
of the football team and and empowering me and Mike
to make decisions for the football team. Um, and that
makes Uh. You know, Mike and I talked about all
the time, the the liberty that she gives us to
do our job. Um. It's we're extremely blessed to have

(05:05):
that have this opportunity, the liberties to do your job,
the keys to the to the to the kingdom, so
to speak. Yes, she it's her building, it's her it's
her organization. But you guys are empowered. And and the
key to the the communication is is it all about
candor is it all about being direct? If you have

(05:26):
something even it's tough, even if it's in a tough
spot to deliver, do you still feel very comfortable because
you know that your role with her. I felt like
that from the you know, the first time I met
her on my interview, like that, Um, she was someone
that I could pick the phone up and and and
call and have those hard conversations. Um. And And the

(05:48):
feeling was mutual on her side as well, that that
she could pick the phone up and call me and say,
you know, I don't like this, John, we need to
fix this, and that I was going to do everything
in my power um and talking through the situation to
fix what she thought needs to be fixed. So this
was a conversation that came up the other day with
Howie Roseman, and we're in a couple of other general
managers and we're saying how important it is to make

(06:10):
sure that you are a straightforward with your owner as possible. Um,
it's very important, even even at the kickoff of the
job and in the relationship. I look back on it
now and I think, if I ever do interview again,
or if if if I'm ever advising someone, I would say,
go into that meeting with that owner and be very

(06:30):
very direct about what you are as a person, what
you expect and and and obviously uh the owner to
do the same thing with you, so that there's no
uncertainties and you're not getting into something that's kind of
clossed over, right, you kick it off with a really good,
firm understanding. And of course you guys, did it seems
it seems like that's a special spot. Yeah, And I

(06:50):
mean it was really cool. Within the first you know,
fifteen twenty minutes of the interview, I felt like, um,
that that we could have those conversations and that's what
it is. You know, It's not like you're going to
your manual and you're going, okay, Amy, on Appendix A
dot one for three, we're gonna do X, Y and
Z if this, we're gonna flip over to addendum four

(07:12):
dot two dot one and do this this that. That's
not how pro football works. So it's those conversations. It's
those organic conversations, authenticity, transparency, whatever you want to tag it. Um,
she has a football team and a business to run.
We're in the we're in the sports entertainment industry. We're
trying to entertain fans here, locally, worldwide, nationally, Um, and

(07:35):
my job is to put a product on the field,
and we've got to have those those transparent, authentic conversations
to put the bus product out there possible. So you
guys obviously have a really good working relationship. The building
is operating well. Who when you look back and you
think about everything that you learn, you know, coming into
the GM role, who is your your most sort of

(07:56):
influential football leader regarding leadership and team building? Yeah, I
mean I think that there's probably not one you know
person per se um, because there's no you know, there's
no perfect person. There's only one man that's perfect that
ever walked this earth. Um, but there's a lot of people,

(08:16):
you know, I think my my, my dad, and my
and my mom. Not so much on football, but just
how to be real, how to be how to be myself, Um,
how to how to work hard, you know, roll up
your sleeves. I mean my dad worked over time and
he'd come home and he'd feed cows and do all that,
and so that that work ethic was instilled there, um,
you know. And then I'd say, when when I got

(08:38):
to to the to the NFL, it was it was
coach Belichick in New England. Just excuse me, not so
much conversations with him, but just watching how he led
the football team. Um, Scott Pioli, Jason ltt yourself, Um,
you know all of you guys, just watching you how
you interacted with the personnel staff. You know, how Bill

(09:00):
and Scott manage the department. And there are some things
that I really liked that they did, and there's some
things that I didn't like that they did. Um, And
I tried to take and kind of build my you know,
my library of how if ever, placed in the position
I would like to run a football team. So you
and I both experienced that because we were in New England,

(09:21):
and we saw to your point, we saw all that
was good, and we saw the aspects that weren't our
personalities and often say that, right, I'm gonna have to
ask you this question. You know, everyone always asks why
did you excel? Versus a number of the other people
that left the Patriot paradigm and and you know Bill's
tutelige and and approach, why do you think you you

(09:42):
have excelled? Well, I think I tried to be myself.
I didn't try to UM be built. You know, for
lack of a better term, there's there's only one guy
that can do it that way. And my opinion, he's
the greatest coach to ever coach the game and extremely intelligent.
Still consider him a good friend, and uh he taught
me a lot and in discussions and in you know,

(10:05):
just watching it. But uh, he's his own personality, and
you have to be your own person otherwise, you know,
you're kind of just just faking it. And and Dicey
through that. Players see through that, coaches c through that
UM staff sees through that. You've got to be you.
You've got to be offenic, you've got to be genuine
with those, you know, with those that you manage. So

(10:28):
this is usually when I step back and start talking
about my history with you know, guys like yourself, and
we go way back. I mean we think about that
and you think about man all of a sudden, it's
that many years later, and we've learned so much and
grown so much. We've had our asses kicked along the way,
and we've we've we've you know, thrived at times, and
obviously you're thriving now and everything is is like in

(10:48):
a really good spot when you look back at growing
through the ranks, because you you were that, you've you've
experienced it at every level. It's something that I've always
been proud about. I mean, some people, you know, get
there in a circuitous way. You and I did it
the way that you know, maybe that's what we expected
to do it, right. You knew how it was to
be rank order, you know how it was to be midman,

(11:10):
and then you knew how it was to take take
the reins and start growing all the way towards where
you are right now. If you were to advise a
group of rising executives on like one strong or two
strong salient points about how to approach you know, leadership
as you're coming up through the ranks. What what would
you suggest? I think that again, you you're coming back

(11:33):
to the previous question. You have to have your own style,
like you gotta be you. Um. If you if you
try to do it the way I do it like,
then that's not really authentic. Um. And and there's gonna
be tough times like and in whatever facet that you
know you're at in your career. Um, as you allude to,
I went from a graduate assistant making five a month

(11:54):
to as a coach to to you know, running the
roads as a scout, and that first you're scouting. It
was so different from me from coaching. I got almost
quit a couple of times because it was hard and
uh um, but I stayed the course and it afforded
me the opportunities and I was able to learn and
grow and be here out now. So we know how
important it is as you grow you learn. You back

(12:16):
to the point of seeing a lot of really talented
football coaches and the relationship that Scott Pioli had with
Bill Belichick. You've seen you know, other coaches come together
with management as you were watching it, and now you're
in that spot and you are now dealing with a
really strong, minded, intelligent, opinionated head coach, and I say
that respectfully, he's got a presence about him. How do

(12:38):
you navigate that and keep keep your relationship thriving as
it is? Because it is it seems from where we
are it's it's really operating well. Again, if you were
to provide advice, how do you do that with the
strong head coach and obviously you being the omnipotent man
in the building. How does that all work? I think
you have to be Uh, you have to be patient.
There are things that that tick Mike off. Um, there's

(13:01):
things that that take me off. Patients allow cooler heads
to prevail. I think that's important. I think it's transparency
between myself and him that at the end of the day,
we're gonna do what's best for the football team. Um,
there's nothing more important than the team. Okay, let's just
talk again about transparency because sometimes that can be complicated, right.
There are times I was told by a close friend

(13:23):
of mine and a person I think you know as well.
R cbu through with the Spurs, he was just so
well renowned for his leadership ability and early on he
would tell me, like Thomas, don't just you know, turn
on the fire hose. With all of this this transparency,
there is a there's a nice fine line there though,
right you obviously have a really good feel. You always
have been very intuitive and and together and streamlined on

(13:45):
a lot of and a lot of your approaches, even
back from when we all work together again, navigating that
is not that easy all the time when when you're trying,
you know, again to your point, when you have a
head coach who has some strong beliefs and you do
where do you draw the line with transparent and see
is that something from from situation a situation It's about
awareness for you. Yeah, it's really I mean, it's it's

(14:07):
instinct and feel for the situation whatever it may be. Um,
it's timing, you know, know, and when to approach and
talk about this or talk about that, or hey, let
me just kind of let that, let me let that
kind of summer for a little bit and and and
I'll circle back on it. Um. You know, I know
when he's prepping for squad meeting in the morning, I'm
not gonna go in there ten minutes before and and

(14:28):
go over roster stuff like he's trying to get his
mind right, UM for the squad meeting to address the team.
So just knowing and having a feel win to approach.
It's that's no different than you know a basketball player,
no one when to take the shot, or you know quarterback,
no one wanted to throw the ball to this guy
or that guy. It's just this instincts and field that
you you know, you need to got it or you don't.

(14:48):
That's right, Well you obviously have it, so okay, you
have final football say what we call fifty three from
for those who don't know, and having fifty three is
final roster decision making ability, which is important. That's your
ultimate responsibility as well. Again, another thing that is is
sometimes a bone and contention in this league between gms

(15:11):
and head coaches. Sometimes head coaches get it, other times
gms get it. If you were to advise humbly a
group of owners who are looking for your advice on
the best way to construct that at the top, what
would you share with them? I think that it's important
that the owner higher the you know, a GM, and

(15:31):
empower them, um, make sure that they're competent enough to
have control over that. But I also think it's on
the general manager to have those conversations with the head coach. UM,
because you know, Mike has say on the roster, like
he's the one that coaches these guys and I and
I value his opinion greatly because I'm not in the

(15:53):
meetings for rooms with these guys. I might see them
out on the practice field. You know, he's a roster
bubble guy, or maybe he's a practice squad guy, and
he moves around pretty good. He's a pretty good athlete.
He's got pretty good strength and your life, but in
the meeting room he can't pick it up and he's
you know, falling this league. I don't see those things
in the meeting room, so I rely on his you know,
his input when when making those decisions. So UM, but

(16:16):
in power the general manager, UM, We're fortunate that that's
what Amy believes in. You're in charge of the roster.
That's what I pay you to do. UM, and Mike's
charges to coach football team. Okay, so we we know
that the league has made strides in salaries and bridging
the gap again another topic that we talked about within

(16:37):
the league, bridging the gap between the general manager salary
and the head coaching salary. It's been a discussion for many,
many years. It's it's narrowing, but the gap is still significant.
Do you believe in today's NFL that that gap between
those two salaries and positions is still justifiable given everything
on our plates, your plates as general managers? Yeah, I mean,

(17:00):
I don't know what the actual, you know, prime gap is,
but you know that I know the head coaches, I
mean they have to talk to the media three or
four times a week. Um. The decisions that they make
for you know, now seventeen games, um, you know, those
are extremely impactful on the outcome of the season. So, uh,
there's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of responsibility

(17:22):
on head coaches and the good ones, you know, that's
why they're compensated where they are. Um. But to your point,
you know, the GMS, it's it's the behind the scenes work.
It's the construction of the roster. It's managing you know,
the support staffs, the video staff, the training staffs, you know,
player engagement, all of those staffs and scouting staff in particular.

(17:43):
That's I mean, you're managing those people and you're trying
to craft the team and the staff. Uh, that's gonna
help you win, and uh um, there's a lot of
pressure put on it. So let's move from that topic,
but stay in coaching realm for a minute. What is
your understanding, belief and approach to helping your head coach

(18:07):
put together a an adept very focused coaching staff. Because
you and I both know, yes, the head coaches a
number one on as far as the coach coach goes,
but there better be some very talented coordinators and position
coaches that really hone in on their in their worlds.
How do you put that together? How involved are you

(18:27):
in the construction of it? What are your what are
your like really really sort of must haves when you're
putting together a coaching staff along with along with Mike, Yeah,
I think that that's something that you know, after every
season we sit down and and talk through the his
assistant coaches and you know my take on those guys.
If he wants to hear my opinion, because you're right,

(18:48):
I mean he can't. He can't be in every single
position room or be at every drill during practice. He
does it. Mike does a great job of floating around
to different position rooms. He coaches every position. Um, during practice.
You know, he floats around and coaches him UM, but
he has to empower those coaches two instill and coach

(19:09):
the philosophies, the techniques, the plays, whatever we're trying to do.
It helps win football games. So he values my input
on um, you know, on his staff. UM. But we
believe in being you know, being loyal, being loyal to
him as a coach, to us as an organization, UM,
and and knowing that that it's never gonna be perfect.
And that's the same thing that we do with our

(19:29):
doing the scouting staff. You know, each each scout area scout,
they have their area. They've got to be experts in
that area, you know, just like the assistant coaches should
be experts at their position. You know, try to find
every single detail to help the players. Um. The area
scout's got to try to uncover every detail about the players.
And we're presenting for the draft. So that's a good point,
and it's it's with all due respect and yet it's

(19:52):
natural when we talk about loyalty. Loyalty is important on
your side when you're putting together your you know, your
offside and all your scouting depart at, etcetera. Etcetera. And
Mike of course on the coaching side, and yet yet
they both come together because they're they're yours ultimately, meaning
you know, the organization is is all encompassing for you.
How do you work with Mike again, respectfully, to dissuade

(20:16):
him from being too focused on the loyalty element? And
and that's complicated, right. We know as coaches you need
to have your right guys around you, but sometimes called
the way it is and I'm not saying in your situation,
but in the league, we've seen it where sometimes head
coaches can be really focused on their loyal myrmidons so
to speak, who are all about loyalty, and they may

(20:36):
not be the best coach for that position. Do you
have a thought on that on how you approach? Is
it just sharing with Mike your feelings about a B
or C coach and then moving on. Yeah, I think
it's you know, he's he's been great about including me
when we know whenever we had to interview somebody, UM
no different than a draft prospect or a free agent.
When we get a chance to talk to those guys,

(20:58):
UM get a for how we think we're gonna there,
they will fit the football team, and I'm not at
first and you know the xs or os um that
he's going to put them through in the discussion, but
it's kind of getting a feel for, you know, how
what is how are they going to present to the players?
Like what are they going to be like in the building? Um?
Because all that stuff is important and uh, you know,

(21:21):
I'll talk to anybody that we interview and I'll give
my opinion. And at the end of the day, we
think we have a little bit of patience. UM. We
don't make quick, rash judgment decisions. UM. And we try
to do what's best for you know, the staff and
ultimately the team. UM. But valued input from from me
and I do the same thing you know on the

(21:43):
on the scouting side. When you say you do the
same thing on the scouting side, it's valuing Mike's opinion.
He may have interaction over the years with someone, he
may have a feeling about someone on your staff, right
that's not either living up or who is thriving that
he would share with you, and you obviously value that.
Speaking of your scouting staff, you have been a depth
scouting staff as well. You've taken a lot of interest

(22:06):
in putting together what you feel is one of the
best staffs out there. You have some very talented people,
I know him obviously being around this league a long time.
With the success of this team, and as you continue
to thrive, so to speak, you know, you run the
risk of losing some very talented people. We went through
that watching while we were in it in New England,
but watching from Afar and it's complicated. What's your what's

(22:30):
your philosophy and approach on succession planning? Yeah, I think
that's you know, you have to you've got to be ready,
just like um on the coaching staff, you know whis
We've lost two offensive coordinators the last two years and
Matt Fleurs a head coach or the Packers, and Arthur's
now the head coach in Atlanta, and you know, Todd
downing Is is now our offensive coordinator. So you've got

(22:52):
to You've got a groom somebody and kind of have
that that person ready. And that's that's an approach that
I try to take. Two is um you know, try
to have someone in house because it's they know your system,
they know how I operate, they know how I manage,
they know what I like and what sets me off
and UM, working with them on a daily basis. If

(23:13):
you can have somebody in house and you try to
promote with from within, uh, and then it also gives
you know, the other people on your staff is like, well,
I'm not in a I'm not going down a one
way street here. There there is opportunity for me to
you know, go and and and grow here within within
this organization. And I tried to um, you know, those guys,

(23:35):
whether it's Ryan Cowden who interviewed with Washington, He interviewed
with Kansas City a couple of years ago, Monti Austin
Ford interviewed with Cleveland last year. He interviewed with Carolina
this past season for their GM jobs. UM. I tried
to pass on you know what I can help them
with to go get the jobs, because I want those
guys to have that opportunity, and then I want you know,

(23:56):
the guys underneath them to to grow and send into
you know more problem it roll speaking of growing and
ascending within that department, what is your what's your philosophy
on transparency with the mid management group, the department heads,
the ones that you're you are looking to help kind
of the next wave, How much do you share the good,

(24:17):
bad and the ugly, the deal has gone bad, the
deal has gone good, the minutia and and some of
the stuff that might be a little bit more private.
Are you open about that? Are you Does it come
down to what we learned in New England? We had
some strong you know, individual voices of course, Scott and Bill.
Of course when I was in Atlanta, I was I
felt very strongly about that. I had some guys around me.

(24:39):
I had a lot of trust, you know, in early on,
especially with less Need and Dave call when I shared
a lot early UM. But how do you feel about that?
I think it's a case by case basis, you know,
I think that if it's something that's um you know,
pretty needs to be buttoned up, you know, they will
be myself and I can and Amy certainly will will

(25:01):
know UM. But I try to give a general sense
of the direction and maybe some of the decisions that
may be coming down the pike, UM with you know,
everyone in our staff, that mid management group, as you
alluded to, UM, so that they can be thinking too,
because I want and value their opinion back on you know,

(25:22):
some of those decisions and UM, how that might affect
the team. Yeah, I mean there's a lot that goes
on and that whole learning side, right, I mean, five
years in you're probably at a spot where as you
alluded to earlier, we all want to continue to mentor
and help give back, right, get back to the people
you care for, give back to the sport. So you're
doing that by educating people. And sometimes you have to

(25:43):
draw the line of what you can share, and you
might not share it right at that moment, right it
maybe three months down the road you may be addressing something.
Hey everyone, here's here's what went down there, which I
find a fascinating way to continue to educate people, which
leads into you, may you make some big moves. You're
you have an aggressive side, and you will go after

(26:05):
what you believe you need for this organization, you and Mike.
But ultimately that's your job acquisitions trades. You made a big,
big trade recently for Julio Jones. Um could lead into
what I was just asking, how much were other people
involved or did you keep that very tight knit in
this situation between you, Mike and Amy and then share

(26:27):
with people down the road. That's one part of the question.
The other part is what is your stance ultimately on
aggressive play Uh, not playmaking, but deal making and and
approach to you know, building the team. Yeah, the first
part of the question, it was, um, what's we kind

(26:48):
of had gotten when the Julio may be available? We
started and I asked, um, you know, several on our
staff to watch the film and see see where it
was at. I wanted to know what their evaluation was
on the player and how he would fit the same
thing with some of the coaches, you know, the coaches, UM,
ask those guys to watch him and see how you

(27:10):
know they could integrate him into the offense. Certainly, Mike
and I watched him, and then you know, I'd say
as it intensified, UM, it was really more just me,
Mike and Amy talking through um, you know, the compensation
and trying to figure out what that was you know,
going to be to acquire him, and ultimately, you know,
my decision to pull the trigger. Um, as it relates

(27:32):
to the balance of of dealmaking. UM. You know, I
don't think you can be frivolous. Um, you can't be
cavalier and treat the team that way. UM. But you know,
we joke around the around the office shoot or shoot,
and when you got something that you think is gonna
help the team, you shoot. Like you there's there's you

(27:54):
don't double you know, double back, you don't question yourself,
stand tall, you make the decision, ride with it. That
idea of when you're well thought out, you're prepared preparing
times of peaceably lesson times of war. That whole idea
you guys, of course, knowing you, you're very well thought out.
So when you make that aggressive move, you go for it.

(28:15):
There's your point where you've got a well thought out
process um, you've vetted out the decision um, and you're
ready to trigger your trigger. I think that's one of
the things that I feel like at times the fan
base doesn't understand right. They may have judgment and past
judgment on moves that are made within you know, teams
in the team building I've you know, you know obviously

(28:35):
sometimes read it on your you know, with within your
own accounts. But I see it now that I'm out
of this and I'm reading a lot more and watching
it from from different levels, around different cities and opinions,
and I'm thinking, Wow, there's some really intelligent people and
roles that you have who think things through. They may
not always work. We know that this isn't an exact science.

(28:55):
But again, to have the balls to do what you
need to do to do the best things you need
to do for your organization. You and I can sit
here and talk at nauseum about some of the moves
that were made this offseason in first round quarterbacks. That
is a tough, ballsy move by by some of our
close friends and Jason Light, Ryan Pace, Howie Roseman and

(29:16):
guys like that that are making really complicated moves but
ultimately are doing what they feel is the best for
the organization. Yeah, they've vetted it out internally with their
staffs and you know every roster is constructed differently, um,
and you know they talk it through with the ownership
and at the end of the day, they got to
do what they thinks best for their football team Europe. Again, thoughtful, intelligent,

(29:38):
insightful person. I'm curious, uh, I'm curious to get your
opinion on what are you most encouraged about regarding the
NFL over the next five to ten years. Well, I
think it's it's it's it's it's growing, it's the in
my opinion, it's the it's the number one, it's the

(29:58):
it's the top dog in in in sports. Like the
amount of coverage, uh, that that the NFL Draft gets.
I mean, right across the river over here, there was
a hundred thousand people watching guys get their names called
and walk and walk across the stage. Like the amount
of excitement that that's around NFL football and and how

(30:20):
much that you know, drives part of our society sports
and to be a part of that. To be one
of thirty two dudes that you know is right in
the fire on that, it's it's it's fun, it's exciting. Um,
you know personally here for us, UM, there's a lot
of cool things on the horizon you know where we're
sitting now. Um, to try to develop this, you know,

(30:42):
this area, Um, to really make this I mean it's
a it's a destination city anyway, UM, but to to
really kind of put our further our stamp on the
city with the Titans here, it's it's pretty cool. What's
you know kind of what's coming up? Yeah, I think
the league is making some really cool stride in a
lot of different areas. We can go on and on
about it in so many different ways. So conversely, over

(31:05):
the next five to ten years, what's most unnerving or
concerning for you regarding the league? Well, I think that
with the growth and it's I'm not saying that, you
know that much money is generated with um UM, with
the games and TV deals and all that, it's just
being able to to manage you know, salary caps and
players salaries as those continue to grow. That's that's one

(31:28):
of the harder parts of my job is just looking
and projecting out, um the future of the football team
and you know, having to make those hard decisions. We
have to do it every spring. Um. It wasn't hard
to make decisions when I first got here because there's
a reason why they we had the first overall pick.

(31:49):
You know, there was a lot of turnover that needed
to happen on the roster. Um. But but now I
feel like that we've we've bolstered the roster and I've
got it. Makes my job harder, which is what it's
supposed to be, to make those tough decisions and manage
those salaries in the cap and fit it all together
and still try to put a winning product on the field.
We often talk about making sure a lot of us

(32:10):
who are kind of in in our years, you know,
been in it for almost twenty years beyond a lot
of us, and we think about the sanctity of this sport, right,
Does that concern you? Is it it? Do you want
to make sure that you're always understanding the movement forward
from a digital standpoint to marketing, to performance to emerging
technology and where we are with analytics? Is there a

(32:33):
is there a nice fine line on being on the
front end of the curve in your mind? Do you
think that's your responsibility to make sure that you're open
minded to it? However, you're still very cognizant of not
getting over your skis so to speak. Yeah, And that's
I mean, that's that's one thing you know, with with
social media and the digital edge and everything is so
you know, sometimes it drives me crazy, um with all

(32:55):
the stuff that gets set out there, and everybody's an expert,
and um, you're right, and and we incorporate some analytical
data and some of the decisions that we make, but
I mean, i'd say nine the decisions we make because
we put the film on and we watched the guy
play football. Because at the end of the day, that's

(33:15):
what it's about like, does the guy play football pretty good?
I mean, you're hiring they gotta play football, um not
look at a bunch of numbers and and all that. Now,
there's a part of that that plays into that. You know,
I'm not trying to say like I'm some nineteen sixties
you know, g im here, I get it. But there's
a balance there. And at the end of the day,
like he coming back to you, put the film on,

(33:37):
and does the guy good at playing football? The guy
is good at playing football, then you try to get
that guy on your on your team. If he's on
your team and he's good at playing football his position,
then you want to try to keep him around. If
he's not, you're gonna find somebody to replace him. So
whatever the numbers say in the metrics say, you know
at the end of the day that the film and
the evaluation of what he actually how he does his

(33:57):
job is is probably the most important. It's a good
point supplementing appropriately it's important. So I was gonna ask
you this question. These are two fairly quick hitters. If
if I were to ask you what you would have
done differently during the time when you enter the NFL
up to the point of view becoming a general manager,

(34:20):
What would you have done differently that you would share
again with rising executives that you might have adjusted in
your approach. Well, I probably wouldn't have scheduled that school
call at Jackson State after the seven pm practice at
Columbia South Carolina, when Lou Holtz was walking, you know,
driving around on the golf cart smoking a pipe. And
then we finished at eight and I had to drive

(34:40):
six hours to watch a corner that couldn't play. Probably
would not have done that. But you know it's you know,
I don't know, Tea. I mean, it's I felt like
there were tough times that I went through. Um, I
felt like that, you know, things happened for a reason
for us there and in New England. You know, we
hired in there at the same time. You know, you

(35:01):
as a national scout, me as an area scout. I
was just trying to figure it out because I was
I was a football coach um and you know I
ascended to to your role when you were the college
director after you know, Larry Cook had kind of stepped
aside and took on a kind of a consultant role
and learned a lot from you. And then I was afforded.

(35:22):
You know the thing about New England is we weren't
really exposed to you know, I term it generally managing
the football team. We weren't exposed to that in our
college director role. We just that wasn't our role. That's
not how Bill had it set up, how Scott had
it set up. Um. So it took really me really
leaving and going to Tampa with Jason who first got

(35:45):
me in the NFL. He's the one that reckoned me
to Belichick back when I was at in Scott, when
I was in a nickel state. Um, it took me
leaving and seeing him manage the bucks down there and
kind of being his right hand man to prepare me
for you know where I'm at now. And UM, I
don't know I done anything different. Um, I'm sure there's

(36:07):
some guys I've missed on which we all did. We
all did, right. I guess when I when I press
on that, I started thinking about myself and I think
I would have probably taken some of that free time
that I had. Uh. And that's not easy to do.
You know, when you beat beat, when you're a road doug,
when you have your time off you need your time off.

(36:30):
I've been thinking a lot more about developing some of
my leadership skills. You and I feel very very confident
with our leadership approach from being an athlete growing up, right,
but we've not been professionally trained. That's something that I
started realizing. Would I have done some more of that
and searched out some you know, symposiums that would have
allowed me to just hone my skills a little bit

(36:51):
more so that when I did get into that seat,
I might have been a little more prepared. That said,
you know how, it is the ones that survived, the
ones that thrive, or the ones that have a natural
awareness and a natural leadership, And you're always growing and
learning and I do remember that. So let me ask
you the next step. Since day one is a GM
five years ago to now, is there anything that you

(37:13):
would advise that you might have adjusted or done differently
and during that time or is that the same answer?
You feel like you've moved through your you know, your
world as a GM exactly how you think was the
best way to do it. Oh, that's a great question. Um,
it's probably the latter. It's certainly hadn't been perfect. Um,

(37:36):
you know, obviously the biggest you know doovers for a GM,
it's picking players or you know, signing certain guys you
wish you had to sign. But um, you know, there
were some there were some good decisions that we made
here too, you know. And there's a lot of people
that helped kickstart the know, the progress and the success
that we've had here. And um, I'm blessed to uh

(38:01):
have been the afforded the opportunity to surround and get
the football the way that I think it should should run.
And Amy empowered me to do that. And I gave
everybody that was here when I first got here a
chance two and some of them stayed and some of

(38:23):
them have gone. And but I know this is what works. Um,
It's it's deeply rooted in New England, but it's my
own flair. I don't want every day to be gray
when you walk in the building, like we're gonna have fun.
And there's gonna be days when I walk down the
hallway and I'm like a grizzly bear. Some days like

(38:43):
stay away from him, and then there's other days where
I'm But that's that's what life is. I mean, that's
what it is. Not every day is perfect. Um, but
you you trust everybody, You lean on people, You empowered
them to do their job. I don't like to micromanage,
Like give somebody a task, don't tell them how to

(39:04):
do it. Because you're gonna tell me how to do
you might as well do it yourself, you know. Allow
them the creativity to come up with their solution. That's
how they learn and grow. That's what you know, That's
what I learned. Um. You know, I took the I
learned a lot from you running the Causes Apartment when
I was in New England, and took go before you
when you went to Atlanta. But Scott didn't and Nick didn't.

(39:26):
They didn't come in and so you gotta do X,
Y and zero like well you kind of know how
te did it, like, but you know what's got to
be done. You do it your way right, you know,
And and I'm appreciative of that. And you instill that
in the people that are around you now. Of course,
ultimately the buck stops with you, but to allow them
to grow and learn and bring their own flare. I
think that's a really really good point. When I look

(39:47):
back and I started thinking about all the things that
I would have done differently during my time in thirteen
years and the GM role. There were times early on John,
we're like man, those first two or three years, especially
two years Man, I was just struggling and keep my
head above water. We all were, I'd called the way
it is. There's a lot going on, and then you
start realizing when you get settled in, there's a lot
of other things that you want to adjust. I'm saying

(40:09):
as a years move on and you start realizing what
is right and even more so, what is about you. Um,
I think that's a really important thing. I look back
and I think where my mistakes are, and I could
we could all name so many different little things, some bigger,
some small. Of course, I look back and I continue
to think about I understand need and I am a

(40:29):
needs driven person. I think keeping needs in perspective is vital.
And if everyone within the building understands that, of course,
you can't say that you are not a needs driven
sport because you can't just continue to draft running backs
when you have running backs. You have to be smart
about it. Where I've made my mistakes over the years,

(40:50):
and I would say this, whether it was an acquisitions
on free agency, John or draft. It was when I
forced that needs so much, like we need a pass rusher,
and I'll put my hands up here, my my one
of my most um, I think one of the one
of the moves that really bothered me is and I'll
share it right now. I mean it was. It was

(41:11):
a move for Vick Beasley. You guys had him here
as well as a free agent, but Vic Beasley, and
I'm not I'm not afraid to say that he was
a fantastic athlete and did so many great things. But
in the end, after his his top ranking season in sixteen,
when we went to the Super Bowl, he plummeted and
he couldn't pull back up. And I missed on that.
And that was a big move for us because we

(41:31):
were thinking we were gonna have pass rushes coming out
of our years for the next year's to come. We
did the same thing of course by picking Tech McKinley.
We thought we're gonna build. So I look at those
and you know that you can look across your sheets
and think, how would I've done that differently? How would
have done this differently? They're all there for us, right
just uh, we have to learn from him. That's important. Yeah,
at the at the end of the day, like you know,

(41:53):
we we simplified down like they've got to be intelligent
enough to do their job, comprehend what the job descript
is going to be. And they gotta love football, right,
they love football. It's hard. And if you're really skilled
at football and you love football, well then that's how
you get the Pro Bowls, and that's how you become
a Hall of Famer. When you really love football and

(42:14):
you're willing to do everything you can to be the
best football player and God gave you a ton of
talent to play football, well that's when you get a
gold jacket. But there's a lot of guys that play
in this league that that love ball. They're not getting
a gold jacket, but they're gonna line up on Sundays
and they're gonna give you productive stamps because of what
they put into the game on a day in the

(42:34):
day out. Basis just a very interesting point. We grew
up in the world in New England where I've always
felt back in those days when Mike Vrabel and Teddy
Brusk and all those guys that were really good football players,
they weren't the elite player in the elite athlete and
the elite speed and explosiveness. But they had so much
about them intelligence wise, team makeup wise, loved the game,

(42:56):
passion wise, And again I go back to saying need
was a driving force of some of the mistakes we've made.
But to your point right there, if the need wasn't
matched with the passion, and two of my most egregious
mistakes and putting together that team in Atlanta had to
do with two people who were wildly talented but did
not have the passion. One was a d lineman and

(43:17):
one was an A lineman. It's unfortunate when I look
back on it, and those are lessons learned for sure. Okay,
let's we've made it to no, we we all have.
I get that. So let's flip a little bit here
and and go down another lane. The league has made
some very good strides in the diversity and inclusion area.
I want your opinion on where you feel the league is,

(43:38):
where you feel more specifically the Tennessee Titans are. There's
a lot there, But I'd love you to riff a
little bit on on diversity and inclusion. Yeah, I mean,
I think I think it's important as the as the
dad of two females and a push for females to
be included in in pro football. UM. I've been asked
and and I'm proud to have been a participant in

(43:59):
the you know that Women in Football symposium in February
that the league does UM, you know, trying to encourage
females and operations or coaching or whatever it may be
collegiately UM to talk with us about careers in the
National Football League and UH those exposures and lead to
UM us starting our own internship program named after our owner,

(44:21):
the Amy Adams Shrunk Women in Football Program. UM. We
had a participant last year, Michael Johnson UM, who we
recently made a full time employee issues the first full
time female scouting assistant UH in our club's history. UM.
And we have another candidate's gonna work with us in
training camp this year. But I think it's it's important.
There's a lot of there's a lot of qualified people

(44:42):
that are passionate about football. UM. If they know you
know enough about football, we can coach them up on
the you know, the finer points that that we're looking for,
if they're willing to work hard. Jay rob where do
you literally and figuratively stand with regard to life balance, family,
not only for yourself but all of those around you
that report to you. What is your approach to that? Yeah,

(45:05):
I tell them all the time, like I don't I
don't want. I don't want to walk in the office
and and see you, see you dead with the with
the remote in your hand. Like, everybody has a job
to do. They know what they have to do. I'm
not walking around checking desks and seeing who's there and
who's not. Once you get what I mean, we could
stay in the office too. You know, there's so much
stuff to watch, but you gotta get home because the

(45:28):
reason that you come in and do your job is
to provide for the ones that are at home. So
you gotta get home and spend time with them. Um.
You know, on Friday's I get the kick everybody out
of there at two thirty three o'clock, get home, spend
the Friday night. Saturdays, you're done at noon, go home. Um,
if we're on the road on Sundays, there's no need

(45:49):
for you to come into the office unless you need
something to do. Spend it with your family. Uh. And
then when we transition out of the season and we
get to the spring and you know, certainly this time
training camp starts. Your you don't got to be back
in the office July, the players will be you need
to be back in on So spend as much time

(46:09):
as you can with your family during the off season's possible.
Are you a reader, they do you spend time studying
other topics to professionally develop or are you just very
very focused on of course your family and of course
building this football team. Is that where your your main
focus is at this point? Yeah, I would say the
majority of it is probably the latter, you know, family

(46:30):
and the and the football team. Um. You know, I
like some of the stuff that Tim Grover has put out.
You know, he was Michael Jordan's trainer. He's trained Kobe
Um and it's I like the I like to hear
him and we I'm reading Winning now. I read Relentless
was a book that he did, Um And it's really

(46:50):
more about mindset because the most the strongest, and the
most powerful thing in the human body is the mind.
And there's a lot of things that you can over
calm that you may not be physically able to do,
that your mind will allow you to accomplish things. So
strengthening the mind and the mindset and how to train

(47:12):
that UM so that you can overcome you know, some
potential deficiencies either physically or whatever it may be, and
still be successful. That's that's great. I'll dig into those.
I'm a I'm in a spot right now where I'm
really focusing on a lot of different things, just interested
because we don't have a chance to do it a
whole bunch. As a general manager, it's easier to listen

(47:33):
to it too. I found it's easier to read it
to you. Yeah, what is your approach philosophy adjustment in life?
Over the last three to five years, have you made
that as adjusted and improved your life significantly? I think
the thing that as a family, UM, you know, obviously

(47:57):
the seats that we set in we sit in UM financially,
they're they're beneficial and I give more now we give
more as a family. UM. Our oldest daughter has type
one diabetes. She has alopecia. UM. My wife serves on
the j d r F board. UM. We've hosted a

(48:18):
gala here in the stadium where we raised almost two
million dollars. UM our school is that they go to
a private school where you know they have to raise money,
and we give to that above the tuition UM, so
that the kids and the education and in future generation
the kids that come through that school UM are provided
the same opportunity. Because I see how much time you know,

(48:41):
those teachers spend helping my kids. UM. I want them
to have the facilities to continue to better future generation
two kids. I want to try to help find a
cure for diabetes so my daughter doesn't have to wear
an insulin pump. Well. Obviously are a major asset to
the football program and the city from a sports and point,
but also from a philanthropic standpoint, it's beyond admirable. I

(49:04):
appreciate that because it's not always easy to do when
you when you have a job like you have the
last question I have and I ask everyone, what is
the one question that you feared that I was going
to ask? And parends you don't have to answer the question, Uh,
maybe did the new j Rob eat the old j Rob?

(49:25):
I mean, the job puts a little stress on you.
I've got and I work out and but but I
also I also stress eat um and I've got to
do a really good job this summer of of getting
back down because health is premium and this guy hadn't
gained announce and you know, I don't know how long
he rides bikes for four miles and climbs mountains all

(49:45):
that kind of stuff. And look at this behemoth we
got behind us. Um that's a that's a bad machine.
But um no, that's that's it. You did it. I mean,
I appreciate you have me on. This has been fun
for me just to kind of go down memory lane
now and storytell a little bit, but also, you know,
kick around philosophical ideas and ways to to grow our profession,

(50:08):
ways to grow the sport of football. All right, Well,
I hope you guys enjoyed that visit as much as
I did. Hanging out with Jay Rob in Nashville talking
all things football as well as country music. And uh,
I mean, that guy owns that city right now. These
people really respect and uh believe in his his direction.

(50:30):
So great to see him from there. From Nashville, we
are heading north to see our buddy Joe Douglas up
in New York, jet Land, the general manager of the
New York Jets. Joe the gentle Giant, I call him sometimes,
although he's got a very very competitive side. I think
you'll really enjoy your time and my time with Joe Douglas.

(50:58):
You have been listening to The GM Journey with Thomas Demitrop.
Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews gms from your
favorite NFL teams. The GM Journey has been produced by
Alan Castenbaum, Thomas Demitrop, an Octagon Entertainment. Don't forget to
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(51:21):
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