Les Snead - GM Los Angeles

In the final stop of The GM Journey for season 1, Thomas parks the Think Tank in Malibu and catches up with Super Bowl winning GM Les Snead. The two discuss their history together in Atlanta, the rebuilding of the Rams, and the decision on bringing in Matthew Stafford.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Ariel Custom Baum and I am the
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(00:21):
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donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org.
Forward slash donate. All Right, I hope you guys enjoyed
that time with Joe Douglas. Like I said, tough football

(00:42):
guy through and through, but really, really good person. You
Cheer for him. Hopefully thanks fall into place for him
this year. Watch it closely. Welcome to the GM journey
with Thomas demtrof from Joe Douglass and the New York jets.
We are jets setting to our final stop, all the
way across the country to Los Angeles to visit with

(01:06):
the best general manager in the world in professional football,
and I say that right now because I maintained anyone
who wins the super bowl for that season is his
best gf. Less need good friend of mine. He was
one of the guys that I've known for a long
time in this business. We're always very close. I got
an opportunity to have some really good friendship and worked

(01:29):
time with him with the Atlanta Falcons before he left
for the rams. Less and I worked together. He was
my director of player personnel and did a great job
for us in Atlanta. And again, he was always one
of those guys that I thought, this guy is gonna
be the maverick GM in this league, and that's what
he ended up showing this year. He took all of
his intelligence in his football drive and he worked it

(01:53):
to his advantage and he showed that it didn't matter
what anyone else said, he was gonna do it his way,
and he truly did say f them fixed, not only
on the t shirt he wore, but by doing what
he believed he should do to be a champion. Unless
need is a champion again, one of the very best
gms to uh who work this position, and he is

(02:15):
the best right now in the world. So here we
are in Malibu, California, and the precipice of the ocean basically,
and I'm here with my great friend and longtime football man,
less needed, and we're out here under the van once
again in the think tank, and less was so kind

(02:37):
to join me here and I would love to have
this great conversation with you about how it kind of
got here. So you're one of the most tenure general
managers in this league right now. Ten years. Unbelievable. I
was teetering in that world for a while, of course,
no longer there. You experienced so much over the years

(02:59):
as a per snow man and then as a general
manager again. So highly talented, so highly tenured. Excuse me, Um,
how do you process that? Where is your head as
far as how you navigated through all of those years? And,
quite honestly, did you ever think you were going to
get to double digit years as a general manager? I

(03:21):
would probably. I probably never thought about all right, let's
get the double digits right. It's in there. That's an
interesting question. The process. It's probably twofold, humbly, you'll say. Right,
and I truly believe this, there has to be some
element of good fortune, good luck. Uh, my good friends,
Jim Collins would say when you do get good luck

(03:44):
or whether you get bad look, how do you what
kind of return do you get on that luck? But
I think, and you you, you can easily appreciate this
now that, let's call it, you're not necessarily on active duty.
You're more inactive duty, and I think we're in your
own active duty. You focus on the moment and you

(04:04):
don't want to say because, as a GM right, there's
an element of microscopic, which is the here and now, right,
the next season, and then there's the telescopic, which are
you're you're you're trying to build something to sustain for
the future. But I do think, uh, to get the
double digits, maybe don't think about double digits, uh, and

(04:24):
try to dominate that moment you're in. And Heck, one
day will you look up? Man, you're tenued ten years
and you were one of the older ones now, because
I remember, I would always when you were still GM
and I would go wow, I remember when Thomas Walked
in the door flowery branch, and then I'm like, okay,

(04:46):
I'm a GM now, but so Thomas must really have
been doing this a long time. Man, it felt crazy
and honestly, interestingly enough, the last couple of years I
started focusing even more on legacy and mentoring became really
important to me. Are you at that stage yet, ten
years in? You know what I do? Think the answer

(05:08):
would be yes and no. The yes part, uh, especially
going through last season pandemic, the social unrest uh that
we experience, you you really started thinking about okay, maybe
it's on us, some of us that are tenured, to

(05:29):
to use football and the platform it gives us to
to enhance humanity in some small way. Right, and and right,
football is still the main thing. Uh. It's a results oriented,
specific mission, going and win a game and win as
many as possible. But when I think when we when
you're fortunate enough to get tenure and you have some

(05:50):
of that wisdom, how do we help the generation that's
coming behind us and also try to do our part
in impacting humanity in some way? Well, I mean you
have a good grasp of that and I love it,
and we talked last night around dinner. I mean, you're
not your average general manager. I've always taken pride on
you know, with that being my approach as well, not

(06:12):
not the average person walking around my optically focused on football.
You and I have been through some good times and
we've been through some lean years as general managers. That's
just the way it is everyone. It doesn't it doesn't
matter how you travel and where you are, and you know,
you even may work for the Patriots and still have
some tough times. That's this maybe this time that's a

(06:40):
it's a great point. But so we've had those good
times and we've had those lean times and and you know,
you had, you know, had five tough, challenging years and
then you've had four that have been unbelievable in so
many ways and and winning seasons four in a row.
Let's talk a little bit about those early years and
how has a early and first time general manager and

(07:02):
then moving into those first five years, how did you
navigate that as a general manager? How did you keep
morale up, positivity flourishing um how did you move through
that and how did you keep everyone focused, knowing that
there's gonna be brighter days instead of you know, again,
so many of us have an opportunity to be around

(07:22):
winning and you go to a new organization, when you
start your new team as the builder, you're going into
a tough situation. How did you, how did you move
through all of that? Right, most of us whether you're
a general manager, head coach, when you get a new job,
there's a reason. So the I guess, the negative part

(07:44):
of that, right, okay, that there was probably some lean
times for the organization you join. The positive of that
is most people in the building are somewhat aware. Okay, we, uh,
you know, we've gone through lean time. We're gonna begin
a new with a new regime, and there isn't awareness

(08:05):
of like, okay, we we've got to start somewhere and
get somewhere. But I think we all know right, as
soon as you kick off and play a game for real,
and whether it's your first game, and then there's a
scoreboard and the math doesn't work out your way, all
of a sudden you're your clocks accelerated. UH, but so.

(08:26):
But what I what? What I probably didn't do well
enough early, but as you go through the lean years,
you're you. What I did realize is, okay, every day
you gotta exhaustively engineer collaboration and and we're all collaborating
really to compete and and and help everyone, uh, let's

(08:51):
call it. Not necessarily become aware. Maybe become aware, but
through the thick of it, the intensity of it is okay,
remember we're trying to get somewhere. We're not there yet
and a lot of people in the building can be
doing an unbelievable job uh, at whatever task responsibility they have.

(09:13):
That doesn't necessarily directly affect the scoreboard on Sunday. But
what you try to tell whether that's athletic performance, whether
that's and and the umbrella of athletic performance, of you know,
meshing uh, the athletic training side with the strength condition,
that the whole developmental the bottom line what you're trying

(09:36):
to do is, hey, if we keep doing our roles
and responsibilities in a very innovative way, a cutting edgeway,
you gotta believe that there's gonna be some element of
compound interest that at some point, uh, if we do
it right, it'll tip and will now reap some of awards.

(10:00):
There's uncertainty in that, but you know what, the only
thing we can do is focus on that moment, be
the best at whatever role responsibility we have and hopefully
all of that adds up right everybody in the organization.
There's some formula, there's some calculus equation where all of
that adds up the compounds and when it does tip

(10:22):
very rewarding. Well, look, let's let's go back a little
bit here, like I normally do with most of the
gems that are on set here, we talk about our
history together and I go way back before I get there. However,
you were always known for being a really resilient, hard working,
focus guy. Like everything about it, even when we were,

(10:43):
you know, good friends in the business, but we wouldn't
see each other four months. You were so damn focused
that I can never get ahold of you. I remember
calling you one time I was in Portland, Oregon. I'm
like less. We have to connect more regularly. It is
good for both of our careers. We need to be
right about it, not only with us, but you need
to continue to reach out to other people and have
I mean, this is a great league and you have
so many people. I remember having that discussion and how

(11:05):
important I remember. I remember and you you said, yeah, man,
I'm sorry I didn't call you for five months, but
I've had that probably more often than not, have that
conversation with people and that we could get into it.
I want you to go into because by nature, Mom, Dad,
God uh created an introvert me, so it's easier for

(11:28):
me not uh to connect and it's also probably that
is um of being dialed in, focused workaholic. So those
two things combined and you have to say it's probably
longer than five months. To be honest with you, it
might have been longer than five months, but the reality
is you're the kind of personality that everyone wants to
be around and when they finally get around you after

(11:50):
that time off, they're like, man, we need more of this.
So this is great thing. We got a chance to
spend great, great dinner time. I was talking last night
about how important it is in our lives right now
to embrace the relationships we have. And yet we were
no longer road grunts anymore or pro pro scouts like
we are as general managers. You are in a situation

(12:12):
where you have very little time to manage your world,
your your wife and your kids, let alone trying to
keep your relationships regular. But it's important. We know that,
and and it for me right now to be able
to glide around the country and take in these conversations,
I'm beyond blessing you guys give me this time to
spend and it's I think it's therapeutic for all of us.

(12:32):
So I appreciate that. It's neat that you're doing it.
I mean, you could take the let's call it the
bad luck of yeah, that's bad luck of we can
say that I got fired. You know what's interesting? We
all have shelf lives, right, but big picture is you've
taken bad luck and, at least in this moment, right

(12:55):
doing something extremely impactful, productive thing you'll remember the rest
of your life. That's that's for sure. And you know, look,
just started out again, me thinking I was going to
go out around and have some really good, productive professional
development time with you guys, and then I thought, why
are we not capturing this for posterity? UH, not to mention,

(13:15):
you know, networks, but that's something on the side. I
just I think there's so much to be shared and,
quite honestly, I'll be honest with this point. quarterbacks general,
excuse me, quarterbacks, head coaches, Star players are always interviewed
and profiled and we never get to the intelligence EA,
so to speak, of the team building side. And the

(13:36):
GMS have so much to offer and I think this
is a great opportunity for you guys not only the
show the human side, but also to show some really
cool intellect and there are so many good things happening
in those think tanks, within organizations that are guided by
the general manager, that this is just a smidgen of that.

(13:57):
In my mind. I'm glad we're able to do it.
So I'm glad you call. I'm glad you called a
think tank because because it's what's interesting is, even though
we were close beforehand, we worked together. I wouldn't be
a GM if you hadn't to come to it Atlanta
and and we I meant to bring my prop and
I forgot it because I was cleaning something out and

(14:18):
I found this game ball. And what's interesting, it's a
game ball that really did go. Really that's a game ball,
but it was. It was the year we went nine
and seven. UH, your second year with the Falcons. Year
before we had gone to the playoffs, but this year

(14:38):
we were eight and seven, going to play the jets.
No chance to go to the playoffs, but to win
that game right. That that nine and seven ball right.
I wouldn't have this job if you that that the moment.
The reason that was big is I was in Atlanta
before you. I grew up in the south. That was
Atlanta's first ever back to back winning seasons, even though

(15:02):
I remember on the bus back from the jets to
the airport stadium you were in the dumps because we
didn't make the playoffs. But someone like myself who had
grown up, grown up kind of a falcons fan and
it had been through some lanewards in Atlanta, it was
a moment like hey, that was big time, that was
a that was a tough sort of mix of emotional

(15:23):
exactly right. I was pissed. I'm like, you know, we're
on our way and we don't need, you know, going
into a second year and not getting to the playoffs again. Remember,
and I've said this time and again, we were addicted
to winning in New England and you know that. We
used to talk about that before I came there and
then I get there and I'm thinking that's what I
want and it's tough, very, very, very few organizations experience

(15:44):
what New England I do remember when we were winning
in Atlanta, your rookie year, with a rookie qb like
you were. You were pretty angry on Monday. You're belichick
and like hey, we only won by ten points and
we should have won by twenty one. I'm like, man,
the Thomas Spoiled. Get back to reality. Well, it was

(16:06):
that last year, especially before I came to you guys
in Atlanta, and we were winning by forty points. I
got I mentioned this before. I got addicted to winning
and I was like, this is crazy. I don't only
want to win by twelve points, I want forty points,
and I started like questioning my own my own morals
and judgment. I'm thinking, what the Hell am I doing here?

(16:27):
So we I'm circling. The only reason I say I
wouldn't be a GM if you weren't, if you hadn't
come to Atlanta. But what is great about calling this
a think tank in this moment, sitting here with you,
is when I became a GM, we're kind of competitors.
So we didn't talk as much right as we probably
should have as GMS, but now it's pretty neat to

(16:49):
be able to sit with a now it is and
it means. It means. You know, it means so much
to me and I and I realized that again things
go a certain way because they go a certain way and,
like you said, take take the misfortune of of getting
fired and unfortunately, Um, but here I am doing things
that I really want to do so. I have a
question for you. Back to our history. When I left

(17:09):
New England, there were certain things I took and there
were certain things I left behind that weren't my personality. Candidly, candidly,
you're not gonna hurt my feelings. What from the Falcon
Paradigm did you leave behind that wasn't necessarily your personality,
so that I left in Atlanta that you did not
bring with you that thought you maybe thought was deleterious

(17:31):
to the success of your football team. Can I answer
candidly what I took with me first, because I I mean,
I feel like I have to answer that because I wouldn't.
But this is interesting. If this is somewhat Atlanta, this
is Thomas took. Number One, I always call it is.

(17:52):
If I if you, if I got Thomas to Mitter
off in my journal, would be nipping the bud right
and then, and that just to me, is you came
in with an intention and and when there was a problem,
you didn't let it summer. You tried to solve it immediately.
Tried to communicate him in a bigger picture. Uh, two things,
probably courage, uh, that you gotta have as a general

(18:15):
manager and and and I'll get to attacking and aggressive
of going after that's more the Julio Trade. The courage, though.
I do remember when you made the final decision to
pick Matt Ryan. And at the end of the day,
now there was Glenn Dorsey that people in Atlanta columns

(18:35):
in Atlanta we're writing this is the next warn sap,
and then there's Uh man, who was the running back
from Arkansas. They were electric. So there was a lot
of Hey, don't Pick Matt Ryan Type. So, but you're
courage to go. You know what, this is what we need,
this is what Atlanta needs. This will stabilize is coming

(18:57):
off the unfortunate situation from Mike. Think. So those things
would be the things I took and still lived by
the day and wouldn't be sitting in his chaff if
those things didn't ocur. So the thing we did probably
uh initially, in the spirit of collaboration, would Uh Jeff,

(19:21):
and Jeff Fisher was head coach at that time. was
He was used to a certain type grading scale. The
rams were used to a certain type grading scale. The
greatest scale you brought from New England, a very sophisticated one. UH,
so early in the down I said, you know what,

(19:41):
it's easier for me to take what everyone else is
used to and and and translate it to what now
I'm used to in Atlanta. So simplified the grading scale
a little bit, uh, in the in the collaboration, just
in an effort to be collaborative, and probably took a
little bit away, uh, in the nuts and bolts, things like, okay,

(20:03):
this is a this is a really, really detailed way
to write a report. Uh. So I probably became a
little less uh strict on the verbage and loud scouts
to be more artistic. And you know, if they didn't,

(20:23):
you know, very good didn't match good later, you know,
we didn't. You didn't get the evil Y. No, I know,
I look, I I know that I could admit one.
I'm a word guy and it was you know, those
words meant the world to me to keep people on
on track. You're you're exactly right. There are some elements
of austerity or or rigety within, within that approach that

(20:46):
I thought a lot of people needed guidance on. But
you're right. Once you get into a certain spot, you know,
I think I appreciate that that you a little more
flexible that way. That's important. Okay, you team with two
impressive in at the top, the owners stand cronky and
the president, Kevin Dem off. How do you feel about

(21:07):
leading up? Um, leading up, I think that I would
just number one thing that comes to mind just is
a cynicism being authentic. Uh, and I and I kind
of go whatever when you're leading up. Don't try to
cover your ass or anything like that. Right, try to

(21:28):
be as authentic, answer questions, communicate maybe the problems, what
might be the solutions, but at the end of the
day's pretty simple. You know, tell the truth. And I
think what's in you mentioned Stan, and what's in in
in any situation. Right, whatever sport you're in, NFL, they're
sturdy too different, uh men, women that that own branchises.

(21:50):
So they're they're all gonna be different. I I can't
say enough about stand in terms of uh, very clear
with the standards. Has Gold Standard Resources Force. But at
the end of the day he hires people to do
a job. He lets them do the job at the

(22:12):
and at the end they will sit down and measure
the results. But UH, right, there's a freedom there in
terms of right. Having that, that ownership to do your
job and not necessarily have other people stepping into that
at all. So that idea candor, which is really important,

(22:35):
communicating regularly. That's important for both Mr Cronkie and Kevin
Dem off. Is that one of the keys to longevity,
just the realness, back to authenticity that you just said
direct if you need to approach them, hands down, you
can approach him. You're not him huing around, so to speak.
You go right to them. And Yeah, I think. Yes,

(22:57):
and and he goes back to what I said. I
learned from Atlanta, from you, right. And he goes under
the NIP in the bud bucket. Right, whatever. Uh, the
issue is, try to take care of it immediately. And
and and and and I could go because Kevin and
I are are appears, persuing very close to age. He's

(23:20):
he's younger than myself. Brilliant, brilliant person. Uh, but at
the end of the day it's kind of hey right now.
And I think also I took the role with GM
then this is okay. I'm gonna whoever, if you're in
an organization, right, how whoever the the top are the

(23:41):
pillars or the decision makers, owner and owners, lieutenants and
and president, his lieutenants and head coach, however many they are.
and every every GM would know this, right. You would know, okay,
it's these four's, threes, three people. Uh. My advice would
be exhaustively every day, try to keep that group aligned, right,

(24:04):
because it's, it's it's a lot of times right. It's
not just you and the head coach, it's not just
you and the president. Right. There is this element, there's
a sophisticated kind of ecosystem and and it's it could
be as few as three people, could be as many
as maybe eight or nine, but whatever that number is,
that's uh, that's your reality. And do your part to

(24:29):
keep that group aligned. I think that's so important. We often,
as general managers in this league, talk about presidential roles.
Some organizations thrive with their president and their GM and
their head coach. Others there are, let's call the way
it is, there are acrimonious relationships between because there's this
banter about stay in your lane. IDEA. If you were

(24:54):
at a symposium and a group of owners were there
and they were going to tap into less needs knowledge
about an organization that manages well with an ownership and
a president and a GM and a head coach, of course.
What would be what would be your recommendation to owners
around the League as far as putting together their organization?

(25:18):
Great question, and I can speak. Let's go to Los Angeles,
Rams and, like you mentioned earlier, we've been fortunate to
have uh, consistent success recently. But so let's and let's
start with Kevin, our president, myself, uh, and then Sewan,
head coach. What's what's very interesting I can say about

(25:41):
our group is, at the end of the day, all
of us as humans or thumbs up right you, you'd
want them in your your bunker. The NEAT thing that
occurred off that has occurred authentically, is Kevin. All right,
Kevin's the steward of the franchise and a lot of
that has to do with all the things that go

(26:02):
on in business. And Kevin Really doesn't want to make
football decisions. UH, he's he's there as a great resource.
Can Ask, I call it, somewhat less emotional in the weeds, unbiased,
bigger picture questions. That are that. That's always helpful. Uh,
but at the end of the day, right, he didn't

(26:24):
want to. I mean he doesn't show up at Clu
every day. Right. We have a business office in a
in a football complex right now. That let's go to Sean.
Sean's a ten in terms of tactical he's a ten
in terms of leadership, but he's a ten plus in
terms of I call it humility for someone that's as

(26:47):
good as he is. And he got the job at
such a young age and was easily willing to admit
I wouldn't have gotten this job if I hadn't have
been lucky enough to start the under John Gruden and
Mike Shanahan and even Kyle Shannon, and took that with
him and would come in the build and go look,

(27:07):
I don't ask me about how we get from Point
A to point B. I've just been offensive coordinator, so
I don't know anything about traveling. You know what I'm saying.
So he has this humility to go hey, y'all, go
do what you do. And so what's interesting too about
Seawan is he wants to coach Uh and he really
doesn't love scouting. Like he's one of those when you

(27:29):
sit down and watch college players with he is a
couple of plays in and he's already into the nuances
of you know, either look at this great. Look what
they're doing. Look what they're doing to this safety. They're
putting that safety in such a heart. I'd hate to
be that safety's Dad, because this is impossible, you know
what I I mean? He's already in the nuance of of

(27:50):
the tactical and and so what's interesting in in my
role and all this, I certainly can't help our business side, right,
we'd we'd lose this. So I don't want to do
that and I don't on a coach. And and so
that's a neat thing if I were to say of
all that. Right, you've got really good people who all
we want is success for the rams, but we know

(28:12):
our domain of expertise and we want to probably try
to dominate that domain. And and then again we're in
the bunker and our backs turned to to each other
and we know that we're getting and no one's trying to.
No one wants to jump into this domain for like
we are, whatever the reasons are that we see happen

(28:33):
in this league right where you try to jump into
maybe a domain that's maybe not your area expertise and
it just muddies the water, clouds it up sometimes. So
that element of just being mindful of what your role is.
Um helping where when health is asked, of course, and opinions.

(28:53):
There's always that good think tank, I think, opinions within
good organizations that thrive with the really good intelligence and insight.
Back to Sean for a minute again. Confident, insightful, very
intelligent at so many levels. As you said, he's focused on,
you know, coaching the football team, which I think is
massively important. Do you think the head coach should have

(29:16):
final football? Say It's a goop. What does fotball say? Right,
we've we've gone round around. I mean, does final football
say fifty three? You know I have. I have a
strong opinion about it. I mean I think there are
some really longstanding head coaches in this league who are
the omnipotent, omniscient football person within an organization. If there's

(29:38):
no question that Bill Belishik should have final football controls, say,
you're right, I probably didn't define it well enough. But
then there are also other situations that I believe if
you have that good working, sorry, very good working relationship
between your head coach and your general manager and your
general manager and your head coach, and there's a respect

(30:00):
of the lines, there's a respect of their abilities. I
think they can thrive. It's when you start getting into
a situation where one is jockeying for another and then
you know, you get coaches and personnel not really merging
well because there's there's this general divide and silo within
an organization. Back in the day that that happened a

(30:24):
lot more. I feel like there's a real understanding of
making sure that those departments are rolling together, because if
you do not have a solid relationship, and I think
much better than solid relationship, between your general manager and
head coach, you have no chance of surviving. But we

(30:45):
can go a lot of here here. We'll go a
few places here that came to mind and uh, I'll
start here. Kevin does such a good job along with
his lieutenant, Tony Pastors. Of Really we're pretty unique and
and we're gonna take on a lot of this and

(31:06):
then Sean and I can really focus on rams football.
So Sean and I are so blessed, and we talked
about it all the time, that we don't have to
deal with a lot of stuff that maybe we're not
even would be good at dealing with, but maybe in
some places, Hey, it should be the head coach and
Jim Jim to deal with that for whatever reason, but

(31:27):
they do such a good job. And the interesting me,
Shan and I really you know, we we embrace that
because we we don't want to deal with that and
we know what's important, right, we know why the rams
have hired us and we know what they want us,
you know, to accomplish to help the rams. So we're

(31:48):
allowed to do that. You got a question, but going
to I always go and we always say it here, right.
I always called a rams decision, like when you say
it final. Say I do think head coaches are very
important in football. Say Uh Inn on a very simple level. Right,

(32:09):
if myself or anyone in the organization we want to
do something that touches the football team and we don't
work with the head coach and let and have his
buy in his but he uh and it doesn't happen.
It doesn't happen in one conversation sometimes. But I do think,
I do believe in UH. Let's make a decision together,

(32:33):
let's make a rams decision and when that's done, then
the rams then work to make that decision work. So
we've really morphed in this league in so many ways.
We've grown in so many ways, we're evolving in so
many really good ways. It could be but you know,
it could be athletic performance, it could be Um, it
could be analytics. We we spoke about that last night

(32:55):
around the table. There's another side, though, the digital the
media side, the marketing side. That, let's call the way
it is. That's also been a good and sometimes not
so good relationship within organizations. How do you feel about
that and how do you, as the Los Angeles Rams?
While you understand, because you're a very modern thinking person,

(33:16):
the importance of digital and we've you know, we know that.
Can you and Sean say enough enough? Does your organization,
does Kevin Dem off understand when you guys are saying, Hey,
we need to focus here on the football side of
this for a minute or more? Oh, definitely. I think
our philosophy is just the the positive is, uh, you know,

(33:42):
we don't look at let's call it the media, and
especially the internal content part of it all. Is Okay,
that the enemy right something we've all been around, some
old schoolers, and it's like the paradigm, I like to say.
We like to say we're in the entertainment business at
the end of the day, and if you're in the

(34:03):
just purity of football, we could probably go coach at
a maybe a division three level, and guess what? They
there's no content. You know, it might not even be
able to afford the content. So but I do think
we do have that saying at the end of the
day that okay, uh, the main thing is the main
thing and that's rams football. And at any moment we

(34:24):
do think, okay, there could be some interference here, that is,
that could be chipping away at the main thing. Okay,
let's let's push back, but the goal would be this.
We know, we know why we're here, we know what
our fans crave. Our fans crave interesting content. There's a
way to provide it. So make sure you ask us,

(34:46):
make sure you come with creative, innovative ideas. Don't be
scared to not and we'll we'll discuss it and find
a win win. I love that. I mean I think
over the years I grew in that mode because at
first I came from, of course, Patriot Paris and when
you're talking about paradigms and that wasn't necessarily our approach,

(35:07):
our approach and you know, over the years I started
understanding more and more and learning more and more about
the importance and I loved being on the front end
of it and I love doing things that I thought
were good for the team. However, there were times when
you had to say, I believe, respectfully, to the marketing department,
enough is enough. We are focused on football and winning,

(35:29):
because if we don't win, none of us are going
to be around here. We know that. So and that's
what I say. Right, if we you, you brought New
England d NA to myself. I'm some derivative of it, right,
we all know I could sit here to Mike. There's
no way, probably at least myself, knowing whatever the blueprint
New England as, that we could pull that off. Right there,

(35:51):
they're doing something that's unique and special and but the
what we all can learn from it is New England's
got a heck of a brand. Why? Because they won
a lot of football games consistently and hoisted the trophy.
So I guarantee you that's is uh interesting a content
as any fan base with warn or craive, no question.

(36:13):
Here's another pointed question. Thankfully, GMS in this league are
seeing an uptick in their salaries. We have been in
a spot for a while that was kind of at
a a holding point, respectfully speaking to ownership, and you know,
obviously everyone's making very good money. We understand that. But

(36:36):
there was a big uptick this year. It was it
was interesting to see that and that's that's good for everyone.
It's good for the League, of course, just like players
and Arthur blankest always talk about market value and how
important that is and and thankfully to him over the
years he was always very mindful of that with me,
which I appreciate. So good uptick, good movement. However, there

(36:57):
is still a chasm, and it's a significant chasm, between
General Manager Salaries and head coaching salaries, given today's world,
with general managers being out front and in the open,
not behind the scenes anymore. They're not for long. Elements
that they deal with are real, just like head coaches.
Do you think that gap is justified in today's NFL? Uh,

(37:23):
I'll get to the gap in a minute. I do
think head coaches definitely, in our business, earn the salaries, UH,
they're fortunate to make, and especially when you've proven you
can win and you get that second one because it's
we I mean the data says it right. There's a

(37:45):
lot of people hard and only so many of that
class of coaches right get to it next contract because
it's hard to win a football game and man, so
I think they desert. I do. I don't necessarily think
I would say, you know what, the gap is not justified. Uh,
and especially with the model that's we're kind of utilizing day,

(38:10):
which I think is a very healthy model, and that
model being hey, we're going to try to maybe hire
a head coach and GM, you know, at the same
year or pretty close, and align them and it's on
them to win or lose, and we all know what's
happened when you lose. So maybe in the in the

(38:32):
previous generation, right, some of the GMS, it was more
of a longer tenured maybe you've got a chance to hire, uh,
two or a second or third head coach. So maybe
because of that longer runaway security, you could you could justify, okay,
a lower salary because you may get more years and
things like. But now we're we're getting to that model where,

(38:54):
you know, GM head coach may get four or five
year deal and maybe three years to the show enough
project progress to get the year four and five. So
I do think it was awesome to see it this year,
especially for for some of those gems coming up that
you that we are progressing closer to the head coach.

(39:14):
I don't know if whoever be equal, but yes, I
don't want to say they don't deserve what they're getting. No,
completely understand the deserving side of that. I just think
when you're talking about four or five, seven, ten million
dollars difference at times that's that's complicated. Yes, called the
way it is. I mean people don't like to talk
about it, but it's it's a legit it's a legit discussion. Point, alright,

(39:38):
adaptive change, an open mind, positive evolution within our league,
though difficult, is very important in my mind for teams
to see seed and drive. What's your stance, fairly succinctly,
on that whole idea? H I think my stance, intentional evolution, uh,

(40:06):
should be a focus of all of us GMS. Right Hey,
because and and and you can get into after action
reviews knowing exactly why, uh, we've been doing something. Why
are we doing it? And is it efficient enough? Is

(40:27):
it actually helping us? Is it actually slowing us? Is
it bogging us? Down or re asking people to execute
a role and we're only using it. So if you
I can intentionally investigate that review it. Know the way
I Jim Collins were real good to break. Great often

(40:49):
talks about southwest airlines and they were one of the
more profitable companies over a thirty year stretch. And simply put,
they knew exactly why they did things right. They they
have only one type of jet. Why? Well, every pilot
can fly that jet. It's not yet to have these

(41:10):
pilots for all the jet. Right. They knew exactly why
they did every and so when you know why, you
now through you can innovate, you can maybe refine that
model to to get the edge. And going back to
your previous question, I do think that helps and assist

(41:30):
the owner in running a football business because now you
can really be able to articulate and, with somewhat database, uh,
explain why maybe you're investing in in parts of the
company and and also know that we should take the

(41:53):
money we've been invested here and eliminate it. Take this
money and maybe an invested into into people, in in salaries,
whatever that is. I think adapting, evolving. We all learn
lessons in this, trying to apply the lessons you learned. Well,
it's one of the things I've always been impressed about

(42:15):
you when we work together. Before we work together and
now from a far watching look, you've made some really
bold moves over the last few years regarding draft, regarding
free agency acquisitions. I mean big time ballsy moves. Brother
like really admire and respect that. Those aren't easy. Those
aren't easy moves. You know. Let's talk about it this year.

(42:38):
I mean moving, you know, moving your first round quarterback.
There are a few other general managers in the League
who I've expect a great deal, who have done the
same this year. That's not an easy move. That's taking
your ego out of and doing what's best for the organization.
We'll talk about that a little bit. But also talk
about being aggressive in this league versus sitting back on
your hands. Well, to be aggressive, I think, uh, definitely

(43:05):
try to really have a keen awareness of all right,
what window you in? Is that? Is there a window
of opportunity? There is, there is there some data, you
know that backs you up. So it's simply put right.
As you mentioned, we've since two thousand seven team we've
had winning seasons I think we're. We're fourth and wins

(43:26):
since then and we've contended for the vision. Even last
year we beat Seattle, lost Seattle for the division, then
came back beat Seattle and the divisional are in the
wild card round. So there's data. Goes, okay, we're in
this window that Ah, we can contend for that division
and we all know what that means. Right, there's a

(43:47):
chance to get a home playoff game, there's a chance
to maybe get a buy. All those things come into
play that allow you to get in that tournament and
then and then make a run from there. Right, depending
on the circumstances. I do think, uh, because when I
first got to the rams, we were keenly aware of

(44:07):
where we're at. Maybe we were just as aggressive, but
reverse right. We we did a lot of trading back
to accumulate extra ones and and then you just started building.
But UH, the moves you're talking about are more all right,
we were giving up some draft that sets and we're
going after some non players because we feel like we

(44:29):
can be a little more specific now we kind of
know who we are what we might need. And then
the QB thing. Simply put, while they and which is interesting,
where we're going in football is all of a sudden
Matthew Stafford is available. So it's like wow, should we
look at this opportunity? And what makes this really complex

(44:53):
is we wouldn't even be in the window to say hey,
we think Matthew Stafford can come in maybe take us
from a good level to a great level, without the
help of Jared Golf, you know, over the last four
years being a part of US winning. So that makes
this really sophisticated and complex. And there's humans, you know,

(45:18):
I called emotions evolved. So because jared great kids, have
nothing but respect for him, but but at the end
of the day we felt like wow, uh, Matthew Stafford,
very accomplished qb, someone that means all the comebacks that
he's had. Well, if we brought into our ecosystem, would
it our bets to go from maybe good, where we've been,

(45:42):
to great? Well, look there. Like you said, there are
so many complexities to your decision making over the years
and where you are and why, why you are right
now fourth in the winning since seventeen. Again, it's it's
to me. It's basic. Should be noted. You talk about

(46:02):
I call. Everybody wants to know how do you how
do you teach? How do you develop right? I was
a lieutenant of yours and we never had a, let's
call it a course on being aggressive or attacking. But
I recommend this. If you're in you've used the term
right middle management. You're a lieutenant for any organization. Just

(46:26):
just be aware, open your eyes. And when you made
the move for Julio Uh and, I say you, I
know there's a wee element involved, but you're the one
accountable and responsible on Gout to live with it. But
there was that element right that we now take with
the rams is. Okay, Thomas knew, we have franchise QB.

(46:46):
If we can, we can provide a franchise receive. You
got to maybe hall of fame players there. I'd vote
for Matt in the Hall of fame. You know. Okay,
if you provide a hall of fame receiver to this
franchise qb, while that that's basically now going to be

(47:06):
the Falcons and and right. You played in at least
two or three n f e championships and went to
one super bowl and I know we all say, well,
we didn't win the goal, we got the silver what
have you, but that's hard to do and that move, though,
was a big part of compounding into the future and

(47:27):
pulling some of those big wins and moments off. Well,
I look at him, by the way, speaking of Julio
and and and even in sixteen, getting into the Super
Bowl and one of the world's best catches there driving down.
We obviously capitalize on it. I mean, I do believe
Julio is the first Ballot Hall of Famer and I
remember back to that. People often ask what, do you

(47:49):
do anything differently? You gave away a lot as an
organization and it's it's one of the moves that I
wouldn't do differently, for sure. And, like we said you,
there was this element right, you had to be aware
and we we had right. We had gone to the
playoffs Matt's rookie year. Again, we talked about the nine

(48:10):
and seven, but, you know, monkey off the back consecutive
winning seasons. But there was you know, okay, Hey, maybe
we could go do some better things if we make
this aggressive move. And guess what? Those UH, probably right.
All in all walks of life, all businesses, investors, would
tell you. UH, sometimes it costs to go be great. Okay,

(48:37):
speaking of doing things differently or not doing things differently.
Of course, I just mentioned the Julio Situation and not
doing something differently. What would you have done differently pre
NFL career, so growing up, through the through the years?
Is there anything that you would have done differently that
you could share? Uh, I had we cheated a little

(49:00):
because you mentioned you would do that question and that's
a great question, because sometimes you go, okay, you're, as
you said earlier, ten year GM, so probably shouldn't do
anything different right. This is kind of a passionate but
at one time I wrote down, you know what, I'd
probably studied more in high school and tried to at
least been like Ivy League type UH material, and go

(49:23):
play football in the Ivy League, because that just seems
like such a fun league to play in. So, but
that didn't happen. But what I would do that similar
to that, is this boy, if, if the if the
young only knew, if the old only could. But I
would certainly take majors out of it. Uh, I would

(49:43):
go sit in those classrooms or wherever I was at.
Started at Troy and ended at Auburn. And you think
about some professors given up his or her entire life
to be an expert on this subject. Like the passion
to do that would be. Okay, who cares about my grade,
who cares about the major, but I'm going to learn

(50:05):
something from that instead of trying to look at the
syllabus and see the least amount you could do. So
I think all of us made but I always think
about all the wasted opportunities because you never know what
part of that nugget of knowledge that would have helped
you today. Probably share that with your kids on that
and I know that's something that I believe very much

(50:26):
in line with what you believe, that we were so
focused on football that there was an academic side. I
don't think maybe we look at it now, would have
helped us so much more as we were evolving as leaders. Um.
All right, the same question. What would you have done differently? Again,
it doesn't have to be long and drawn out. What
would you have done differently as a middle management person?

(50:47):
So in those department head years, when you were the
pro director and you were moving through, is there anything
that you would have done differently prior to the two things?
Number won't be okay, Young, uh, don't be a young
and experienced no at all. I probably right. You really
don't know anything, but you know it allso eliminate that.

(51:09):
The interesting thing is some of the people that in
our organization or I've been around off that. You go wow,
I wish I would have been that person. They were
these people were given the role and responsibility and next
thing you know, they uh, they redefined that role and responsibility.
So the next time, let's call it, they moved up
or moved on. When when you hired for that role

(51:33):
and responsibility, did now changed for the better. So I
wish I would have probably done more that, done more
that for you right in my role. But it's it's
it's really an interesting spot. I mean, I will add
this to this conversation. I've always believed every one of
us in this league has a pigeonhole. This may be
an old statement or an old fashioned statement, but you know,

(51:56):
everyone's pigeonhole. Someone likes to party, someone may rather be
climbing mountains and snowboarding in Boulder Colorado, and he's not
passionate enough about football. Pigeonhole. Pigeonhole, but I think about
how much you had to overcome. But go ahead. But
so I feel like really, there's one pigeonhole that cannot

(52:16):
survive and it's if that Pigeonhole, play on words, is
full of ship. If you're a pigeonhole is a BS pigeonhole.
You know that if you have a reputation around this
league for being a BS person, you have no chance
of rising surviving if you do. If to me it
comes to uh, it comes to a quick end, uh,

(52:38):
and people just move on or people are always, you know,
throwing their darts because you can't be full of crap
in this league. You make a good point. I think
if you're full of crap and it gets you to
a certain level and now you're really accountable and responsible,
you're gonna fail because by definition you're full of crap. No,
no question about it. And the interesting thing is, man,

(52:59):
it's ruthless. That pigeonhole is worth being kicked out of
the League for or but it's a ruthless business. Sometimes,
in terms of the envies, the jealousy is that they're
going maybe more amongst the scouting community than the training community,
than the coaching community, than the president's community. It's a

(53:23):
it's ruthless out there. This is one of those things
that I think for listeners and viewers down the road.
I came into this also thinking there are there are
myths within the NFL that need to be debunked, and
one is it's all, you know, team Camaraderie and and
we all have each other's backs and like that's football

(53:44):
and and it's not. I mean it's complicated and, by
the way, usually when you come in you're not making
the salary that everyone thinks you're making. You're making four thousand. Well,
nowadays it's much higher, of course, but you know, there
there's an element to this lead and they're missed within
this league that I think continue to need to be
debunked so that we can move forward. And we we

(54:07):
hold onto them too often, I think, and we think, no,
we don't need to be talking about that, but truth
and candor is is, I think, what can set us
free and move us in the right direction at a
lot of different levels. We won't. Of course, it's interesting.
That would be one reason I would if I were
ever to give my advice to kids if they wanted

(54:30):
to get into the it's called the scouting side of football.
If I were to tell them not to do what
it would be maybe because of that, that ruthlessness of
the anti collaboration and teamwork that goes on. Oh, it's
it's it's a little unnerving. And you know, that idea

(54:50):
of not not accepting change and because we've done something
this way for so many years, we're gonna keep doing it.
It's a whole other part of this lead that is really, really,
um difficult for me to fathom, not only but I
mean you want to talk about an enervating concept that
we've done this this way forever. We're not we're not changing.

(55:13):
I mean it's, it's it's the one part of professional sports,
that and football in general that I think needs needs
to be really looked at by the ownership groups and
make sure that the owners know who they have in
their building and who is open and who was moving
forward and those that are stuck in mud. They may
be very good at what they do, but if they're
holding your organization back because they're not, you know, thinking

(55:36):
forward and opened at least thinking forward, that's any fourth thing.
All right. The last question along those lines is the
same question since being a GM. Is there anything that
you can share with the rising group that you would
do differently? Uh, UH, figure out how to delegate earlier.

(56:00):
Chunk your time, Chunk your time. I mean the first
thing I would do is you're gonna have a lot
of things to do. So if there's eight things you
gotta get done generally on a day to day basis, Hey, chunk.
Make sure you've got eight times during the day or
eight chunks of time, and and guard those religiously and

(56:20):
and that would then lead to probably my biggest advice
is to make sure that you don't short change your
your family, your loved ones, your wife, your your kids, uh,
in this job and it's easier said than done. That
is an amazing point. You get into this world, sometimes

(56:40):
as a GM and you're just you're just driving forward.
I had a really emotional moment the other day. I
was up at a wellness retreat in uh, just outside
of Phoenix, very quickly called Savannah. It's a great place
and I was I had the time at six PM
to lay down for an hour um underneath this this

(57:01):
unbelievable tent with the Arizona Wind blowing through. It was
amazing listening to different sounds. It was like sound therapy.
I came away walking away from it like beyond relaxed
and and and introspective, and I had a tear come
to my eye because I thought, man, in this job
we race through everything and we're holding on for dear life,

(57:22):
and yet the family, the experiences that you know that
are so important for your soul, you put aside and
you say I'll deal with them next week, I'll deal
with them next month, year, ten years. All of a sudden,
thirteen years go by and I'm thinking I really put
some parts of my life aside, that that, although I
loved what I did, I mean I'm realizing more now

(57:45):
the importance and if I could continue to edify and
and and mentor people that are in your jobs, I
would say, you know, listen to those and you're doing
a really, really good job. Less with that. When I
watched that again, admire from afar because you look at you.
You're living in Malibu and of course you're. You you
picked the right Straw to get out here, to L A,
of course, but you're making the most out of it.

(58:06):
I'm a big believer in making the most out of
where we are and what we do, and you do.
You have remember for your next question, and it hit
me and you used to say it a lot, but
if you ever get and get fortunate enough to get
the GM chair, embraced the journey. Eb Yep, that's it's
it's one heck of a journey. Embrace it. It's gonna
be stressful, it's gonna be hard, all those things you're

(58:27):
not gonna hide from, but it is a journey worth
exploring less. So the last few questions here are more
lifestyle questions. I'm just gonna go right to it. What
it is your key to staying fit mind, body and soul?
Obviously you start hearing Malibu, but but where are you?

(58:48):
What is your stance on mind, body and soul and
fitness balance as a general you said it, it's got
to become a lifestyle. So it's got to be a habit.
You know, it can't be something you try to do right.
So whatever it is. But I uh, number one, I've
always said football certainly shouldn't give us gray hair, even

(59:08):
though you've got plenty. But, and I say that tongue
in cheek, in that remember it's football. Wow, what a
what a journey, even though you know there's thorns for sure,
but uh, it's a it's a very fortunate journey. So
number one, embraced that journey. Number two, uh, I give
Mike Ryan Credit. Mike was once a trainer with the

(59:29):
Jacksonvill Jaguars. Now he works with NBC sports, but he
was an absolute nut case. Triathlon, uh, heck, not participant,
but would win those things. Right, iron man's finished second
in Hawaii, things like that. And but he got me
into the the biking, the swimming, the running in a

(59:50):
proper way. And from that kind of that that moment, Oh,
in those mid nineteen nineties to now, been doing something
every day, whether it was being frugal with your diet
and trying to move in some form or fashion, that
diet element, you're staying fit. You have the Nick Cassarios
of the world, the less needs of the world, the
Ryan Paces of the world. Those are some fit dudes. Now, Um, yeah,

(01:00:15):
I mean I've I've I've liked watching that because that
is of my mindset over the years. And Gray hairs. No,
gray hairs, well, you're you're blonde, so I think they're
in the genetics. They're probably there somewhere. But all right, uh,
you've cultivated some really cool relationships with some authors throughout

(01:00:36):
the world. Very influential people. Can you tell me a
little bit about that and tell me how you went
about that? But what you would advise again, rising executives
with regard to learning outside of football and not being
so myopic? That's that's, I think you said, the key.

(01:00:56):
Don't don't focus just inside. It's it's it's awesome to
get viewpoints, DNA, I call it, from the outside. Uh.
I was very lucky my wife, Kara Henderson steed. She
best birthday present ever. Uh. I once read good the
great written by Jim Collins and and it's a book

(01:01:18):
I still have and it is so underlined and I
still go to it today. So it was kind of,
let's call it the Bible of and maybe leading, uh,
like an organization like the rant. So she she calls
an author stalking. She sent an email to Jim and,
you know, kind of explain the story and fortunately and Lucky,

(01:01:44):
he responded. UH, would love to to meet. So we
go to his think tank and what's interesting, he called
him tease and he probably blocked out fifteen to thirty
minutes for this afternoon tea and you would go and
sit with him, but I would call. I could have
retired greatest moment of all time was when his gate
keeper kept coming in and going, you know, Mr Collins,

(01:02:07):
you know, basically saying, Hey, the tea's up, give me
kick this guy out, and he kept he finally looked
there and said, you know what, cleared the schedule for
the rest of the day. So it was like, okay,
I'm you know, it's a lot of time. So, with
that being said, from there we obviously got this confidence
that wow, this, this is kind of neat. So car
for one second here. This is crazy. Less used to

(01:02:30):
have a book on his shelf, good grade. Of course
he had a number of them. They were like shining beacons.
I'd walk by and they were like beaming at night.
I'm like, you know, and you were such a big
Jim Collins Fan. Fast forward to a couple of years ago.
Of course I have a home in Boulder Colorado. Somehow,
Justin Shoff my my chief of staff sets up a

(01:02:51):
meeting with Jim Collins, unbeknownst to me. I sit down
at the table with him and all he raved about
was less sneaded and I didn't even know your relationship
at that point and it was amazed because of you
know how great he is as a leader and thought provoking. Uh,
you know what's awesome? Youtube would get along, because I

(01:03:12):
think he probably would have told you. UH, Big Passion
of his is rock climbing and and his friends that that.
I call it, Dude. I'm like what they're crazy doing.
But I can remember sending my picture of when I
went rock climbing with you before we were GMS, but
I remember I was basically about only this high up,

(01:03:33):
but we kind of you kind of lady, but you
laid on the ground and took a picture. I was
about a foot off the ground and I was spider
man on the side of a rock. But the picture
looks like, you know, I'm hanging. You know what are
the guys that do the free like I'm way up somewhere,
but really I'm only a foot. I think that picture
is still hanging on my wall in my it's a

(01:03:54):
it's a worthwhile picture for sure. Well, in the end,
you again, not only Jim Collins, Ryan Holliday, who is
killing her right now. I mean best sellers coming out
of his ears right every time I turn around, he's
got he's got stillness as a key, he's got obstacles,
a way, he's got ego, which is one of your favorites. Correct, definitely.
We're in the sports business, right, and a lot of

(01:04:17):
right highly skilled individuals, and I do think ego is
one of the things that can derail right, a lot
of organizations and teams, but Ryan many others, whether it's
anti Dook and decision making. You know that. I can
mention many, but I think the moral of the story

(01:04:39):
is is being able to connect, reach out, let them know,
and it's authentic because every person we reach out to
we have a specific ex or something underline in the
book to go hey, you wrote this, you said this.
We tried to implement this with the Rams and and
I would love to this us the matter when you

(01:05:01):
uh further. And for the most part we've gotten a
lot of yes is and and cultivated some really, really
neat relationships with with bright, bright people. Yeah, well, I
would say this to any of you general managers that
are still general managers. Capitalized on being a general manager
and not a defunct general manager. Knocking on the door

(01:05:23):
makes it a lot easier to try to request time
with someone. I'm being facetious, of course. The reality is embraced.
Embrace the opportunity that you can meet some really good
people that are gonna unbelievably affect your, you know, your
leadership and your growth. The last thing I would add
to this is somewhere along the way, Arthur blank has
always been really good about providing you know, his his

(01:05:46):
employees and put hundreds of thousands of dollars over the
last three years probably into my education and growth as
a leader. And it came up in a conversation with
Arthur blank and Steve Cannon, art, the CEO of all
of his business, is that very few of us that
get these jobs are professionally trained to be leaders. We

(01:06:07):
all had leadership elements to us, no question, as players
and miss and that, but I would say right now
my biggest piece of advice, respectfully again to owners, is
put money into your into your leadership group. Help them
grow and help him grow early. Don't don't just wait
until seven years when teetering on being, you know, out

(01:06:27):
the door. I would say when they first get in
the first continue, you should start training them to be
the best leader they can be and put some money
into it and help them grow, because they want it,
they're craving it and I think it's great. Let me
go to the last two questions here. Last one, this
is a Tim Ferris lifestyle style guru question. In the
last three to five years, what belief, approach adjustment in

(01:06:52):
your life has changed your world, in your life? I
would I sum it up in three things. Learn, apply, evolved.
We all lessons are easy to learn. UH, hardest thing,
or maybe what we don't do often is is applying
what we learned. And and that leads to probably it's

(01:07:14):
similar to evolution. Evolution takes a long so, uh, probably
I call it intentional evolution, because what that means to
me is whatever it is. It could be one summer where, okay,
I'm going to uh go visit Jim Collins and and
really revisit. Good to great, maybe a new it could be, okay,

(01:07:34):
I I need to evolve and build a relationship, a
better relationship, with my sixteen year old daughter, and I'm
gonna focus on that. So it's you'll know. You you,
we all have a model for life and if you
get that thing really, really uh defined, then you'll definitely know.

(01:07:55):
You'll there'll be an intuitive called okay, there has to
be some refinement and it can be many things. But
you know what, learn something, apply it em boyd the
evolution will make all the difference. Thought. This is the finale,
the final question. What was the one question that you
feared I would ask you today. Wow, you're what's interesting.

(01:08:21):
I don't know if I was one question that I
technically feared. And at number one would be, like we
mentioned earlier, you're, you're we've got tenure. Uh, so hopefully
we have some wisdom provides. So if you asked a
very tough question and you know what I should be
at this stage, be able to answer it and and

(01:08:44):
live with it. Uh, they went viral. Heck, is good
for PODCASTS, right. But and there's there's this element too.
I think it's very important, based on our chemistry of
working together and knowing each other together. It's a big
fire truck. But you know, there I sat down and
trusted you, so I didn't there was no question. I'm

(01:09:05):
sure there was. What question did you leave off the
notepad that you wanted to ask me? I asked almost
every question. I mean there's not one. I've had a
number of GMS who, you know, have sort of joked
about it, laughed about something that was probably, you know,
butt it up against the line to rule violation or something,

(01:09:25):
but no, I think most people to your point, at
least the established GMS, are exactly like you. By this
time we should be able to take on any question
and if there's a question we don't like, we'd be
able to navigate it appropriately. Let's need. Fantastic having you
on the set today. The think tank, as we call it,
because of this bad boy that is a tank you

(01:09:46):
did did an excellent job sharing with everyone, and I'm
just a guest. Thanks so much. All right. Once again,
thank you, less need for your time. I mean Super
Bowl general manager. is so great to see him succeed.
Continue to watch and I'm really excited to move forward

(01:10:07):
in this journey. Let know that our journey with the
general managers is coming to an end. We finished with
the best less seed and we're on our way to
looking at new adventures. Keep an eye on this podcast,
because we will. We will focus on general managers for
from other teams that we didn't touch on, potentially owners.
We are very excited about presenting some of our underrepresented

(01:10:30):
rising stars that we spend time with at each one
of these visits. Please check that out as well. We
have some special guests along the way. We love what
we're doing here on the GM journey. I'm really excited
about what's in the future for us. Please stay tuned,
listen closely and thank you for being on the journey
was US along the way. You have been listening to

(01:10:57):
the GM journey with Thomas Demittrough. Continue to follow Thomas
as he interviews GMS from your favorite NFL teams. The
G M Journey has been produced by Alan Castenbaum, Thomas
demitrop an octagon entertainment. Don't forget to download and subscribe
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(01:11:22):
The G M journey is distributed by the eight side network.