December 17, 2022 • 12 mins
Thomas continues his interviews with the rising stars in NFL management with Sally Clavelle area scout with the San Francisco 49ers. John Lynch tells the story of how the organization found Sally, and Sally gives her unique perspective on mandates and how we have to change our thought process around them.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Arial custom Baum and I am the
founder of Fair Meals five oh one C three status
nonprofit that focuses on easy, healthy, and affordable meal solutions
for families of all walks of life. On our website
fair meals dot org, you can find free of charge
tons of tips, tricks, and recipes that encompass our three
(00:21):
pillars of health, ease, and affordability. To help continue to
make our programming the best it can be, please consider
donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org
forward slash donate all right. Next up on our travels
around the country talking to the rising stars in the NFL,
(00:44):
is Sally clavel or San Francisco, forty Welcome to the
GM Journey with Thomas Demtrof. I was very fortunate that
John Lynch provided me the opportunity to talk with Sally.
Sally is a really, really impressive person. She has She's
an athlete by trade. She was a basketball player at
sam Houston State. Has a master's really well rounded person.
(01:07):
On top of that, she has an incredible amount of
confidence and she's very strongly opinionated, which, by the way,
we need as a scout in the NFL. She's become
one of the few underrepresented female scouts Area scouts in
the NFL, really really strong opinions about mandates and how
(01:28):
they should be or shouldn't be taken care of, not
only in the NFL, but in the world in general.
Very impressed with Sally. Check it out. I think you'll
love it. The league has made strides in diversity. UM,
diversity and inclusion is something that it's at the forefront.
We know how important it is from an organization standpoint.
Can you talk a little bit about it, and then
(01:50):
I would love to to move into bringing Sally Clavel
on the set. Here your your rising star from the
underrepresented group within the NFL. I love it. I love
we're going with us. I think it's really good for
for the league. UM, talk to us a little bit
about the forty niners in that approach. Well, it's it's
you know, you talk about feeling blessed and one of
the things, you know, I think a couple of things
(02:11):
drew me here, Kyle Shanahan. The opportunity to get back
in the game, being invested in something where you get
to experience, uh, you know, the thrill of victory, the
agony of defeat, that kind of thing, that kind of
feeling you only get from a scoreboard and competing at
the highest level. Um. But then there's also be in
the San Francisco forty niners, and yes it's a championship organization.
(02:32):
There's five Lombardis we get to walk through in our
lobby each day, and you don't think that drives you.
But also, you know Bill Walsh, we talked about him,
he also understood the importance for inclusion, for diversity our ownership.
Denista Bartlow has always been very forward thinking on including women,
and um, you know, I just think whatever perspective you're
(02:54):
coming from, Hey, you're in the Bay Area, it's a
very diverse community. The way I look at it is,
there are so many people out there. Why cut off
half the work, half the half, half the possibilities, you know,
with women. And I think it was just for years,
like people said, well, women don't do that, And it
took some brave people like the Bill Walsh to say
(03:14):
why not, like de niece to Barlow, and people started
doing it. And so I remember, um, you know, we
started having a want to bring some of that in
our organization and we were looking for it, and you know,
the scouting assistant rolls a great um, great place to
start for that. That's like the breeding grounds of of
people who've gone on to be general managers and um
(03:37):
and all that in this league. And so we were
looking for someone and one of our road scouts, John Stephens,
we a great way to do that in this league
is who do you talk to? The people are out
there boots on the ground, and John Stevenson Sally, I'm
right there, right, John, Yeah, John Stevenson. We asked all
our scouts, said, hey, there's this gal down at two
(03:58):
Lane and she was the dress actor of on campus recruiting.
Her name Sally Clevell. Sally played basketball. But all I
know is when I go on a visit there, that's
who I talked to. Because she's gonna get me to
the right coaches. She's gonna give me the right scoop
on all these players. She's gonna say, here's the academic advisor.
It's just it's very impressive. And so we brought Sally
in for an interview and I remember vividly doing it
(04:21):
and saying, yeah, this would be cool, but we want
whoever does this. We're not giving a token jobs, they've
got to win the interview. And so we brought I
think eight people in and Sally came out on top
and it was unanimous. It was Martin Mayhew, myself, Adam Peters,
and Sally has now been here, uh, started as a
scouting assistant, worked her way up pro in our pro
(04:41):
department as an analyst, and uh, I guess I'm announcing
a promotion on air. She's she's now gonna move out
on the road. She's gonna be our Southwest scout, uh,
replacing John Stevenson who has moved on to to another organization.
And so we're still proud of Sally. And um, you know,
but she's as you used toe as you'll see talking
(05:02):
to her. She's bright, Um, she's she's always got a
huge smile on her face and all that. But what
I love best about Sally is she makes it better.
She's very talented, she takes her job very seriously and
and we're fortunate to have her. Alright, we're back on
set here. Sally Clavel the rising star within the forty
(05:23):
niners organization. For some reason, we say the underrepresented and
that's uh, that's a major positive for for our league,
that we are making strides. As John was talking about
a little bit earlier, what is your personal stance on
where the league is, how we are evolving and and
doing good things, yet there's still considerable space. Yeah. So
(05:46):
I think the league as a whole have done a
really good job making it strives to become more diverse. Um.
But there's still a lot more work that can be done.
It should be done. Um out to be too specific,
but there's a lot of people, insightful, knowledgeable and experienced
people that can help move that needle. UM. I just
(06:08):
think that it will take uh, people just willing to
have those uncomfortable conversations and get in the room and
just say, hey, we have to get rid of the
stigma of just because this is how it's always been done,
this is how we got to continue to do it. Um.
I think COVID has showed everyone that hey, you can
still be really successful doing things differently. UM. So I
(06:32):
just think that people have to be willing, um to
have those uncomfortable conversations and just be okay with that.
I love that answer, you know, I've thought a lot
about that. When we start putting staffs together and we
start thinking about where we're going with women in sport,
women in football. I just think it's beyond admirable. You
look at organizations that are open. I look at you.
(06:54):
Your background is in basketball, right, I'm a big believer
just by the way, John, So you know it all
starts with athleticism and being able to analyze movement. I'm
a big believer in that basketball people have a great
eye for movement. Yes, there's some other nuances to football
that you're gonna be learning. And what an amazing thing
that you're gonna be on the road as a full
time scout. John just announced promotion here on set. Sure
(07:18):
it's coming out. That's really exciting. But to that point,
you do believe that, right, you know, athletes, you know movement,
you know, you know the essence of being an athlete.
Is that important for you as you move into this
next role on the road as a as a full
time scout is a big, big time move Um? Yes, Um,
(07:39):
like you said, basketball help me a whole lot. Right,
So I can tell hey, this guy can move this
guy stiff. I can say, hey, this guy is explosive
in twitchy. This guy is not. He's more of a Mahler. Um, So,
basketball helped me identify those different traits. Um, just being
a scout inistist in here my first year learning the
(08:01):
terminology and how those traits specifically fit into specific positions
and that that's what I learned, and that's what I'm
continuing to learn to say, Hey, yes, I can identify
those traits right now, how do they fit in with
the scheme, how do they fit in? UM just with
positions specific things like that. So that is what I've
(08:22):
been continued to learn. But basketball definitely helped me. It's
a great answer. Again. I mean I sit there and
I think about where we're going with this league and
and what needs changed you had mentioned earlier in the
first do you think, when you step back, do you
think it's more on the individual team or do you
(08:42):
think it's more on the owners to make these major
moves and the increased optics and hires. Yeah, so I
think it's twofold. I think the responsibility lives on both parties. Um. Again,
the Fortidland is arguing to this, and Jail and Kyle.
I think they've done their um due diligence and they
(09:05):
are responsible for you know, hey, just being diverse, regardless
of what they look like, just getting the best people UM.
And I think the NFL, the League office, is also
doing a good job UM. But we also have to realize,
like the league offices, the governing body that sets indicates policy. Right.
(09:25):
I think that as the league stresses policy and policies
UM tends, teams tend to make those mandates are focus, right,
And I think that we as teams should adhere to
those guidelines and not just look to check boxes or
(09:45):
look for loopholes, right. And that's human nature, right. So
anytime a UM, a law, a guideline, or some type
of regulation is set, the first thing we think about is, oh,
how can we get around that? Not how can we
adhere to? So I think that once we change that
mindset of okay, they said we have to do this,
(10:06):
how can we find that loophole of still doing this?
But they're still don't we really want to do? I
think that once we as an entire organization and team
in general, UM get out of that mindset, then things
will fall into place naturally. But if we continue to
try to control mandated things, then we'll continue to be
(10:26):
in this situation and they're always going to be a problem.
Thank you for your thoughts on that. All Right, this
is a question some people like to answer and some don't.
What is your ultimate goal? In the National Football League?
Hands down that that was easy? Yeah, No, that was easily.
I love that. I mean, I think that's I think
(10:48):
it's great. And there are a lot of people, of course,
to around it. And I know there are other other
answers some people throw out, but in the end, I
love that. I mean, you know what your goal is.
And and I'm a shooter. She's a shooter. In high school,
I average like thirty eight points, but I had a
game of fifty. But a tile. High school was super easy.
(11:10):
High school is super easy. Well, you're right, shooter side
right before it. I think I think I'm a big
believer in uh go go big or go home, And
I think I think that's that's the way to approach it.
In life. We talked a little bit about it on
you know, you were listening on the business deals and
making acquisitions and making big time moves and sometimes you know,
legit tough moves that some people won't do. I think
(11:31):
that's really again admirable that you're focused on that, and
I would say in the very end, you know there's
gonna be there's gonna be obstacles, and there's gonna be
the points and the down points and everything. And by
having resiliency again again, and you're obviously a very positive,
upbeat person, and you believe I'm a big believer in
positive passion, persevering people. You embody that. I love it
(11:55):
all the best. You God, bless you, Thank you. You
have been listening to The GM Journey with Thomas Demitrop.
Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews gms from your
favorite NFL teams. The GM Journey has been produced by
(12:16):
Alan Castenbaum, Thomas Demittrop and Octagon Entertainment. Don't forget to
download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you
get your podcast from. The GM Journey is distributed by
the Eight Side Network.
My name is Arial custom Baum and I am the
founder of Fair Meals five oh one C three status
nonprofit that focuses on easy, healthy, and affordable meal solutions
for families of all walks of life. On our website
fair meals dot org, you can find free of charge
tons of tips, tricks, and recipes that encompass our three
(00:21):
pillars of health, ease, and affordability. To help continue to
make our programming the best it can be, please consider
donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org
forward slash donate all right. Next up on our travels
around the country talking to the rising stars in the NFL,
(00:44):
is Sally clavel or San Francisco, forty Welcome to the
GM Journey with Thomas Demtrof. I was very fortunate that
John Lynch provided me the opportunity to talk with Sally.
Sally is a really, really impressive person. She has She's
an athlete by trade. She was a basketball player at
sam Houston State. Has a master's really well rounded person.
(01:07):
On top of that, she has an incredible amount of
confidence and she's very strongly opinionated, which, by the way,
we need as a scout in the NFL. She's become
one of the few underrepresented female scouts Area scouts in
the NFL, really really strong opinions about mandates and how
(01:28):
they should be or shouldn't be taken care of, not
only in the NFL, but in the world in general.
Very impressed with Sally. Check it out. I think you'll
love it. The league has made strides in diversity. UM,
diversity and inclusion is something that it's at the forefront.
We know how important it is from an organization standpoint.
Can you talk a little bit about it, and then
(01:50):
I would love to to move into bringing Sally Clavel
on the set. Here your your rising star from the
underrepresented group within the NFL. I love it. I love
we're going with us. I think it's really good for
for the league. UM, talk to us a little bit
about the forty niners in that approach. Well, it's it's
you know, you talk about feeling blessed and one of
the things, you know, I think a couple of things
(02:11):
drew me here, Kyle Shanahan. The opportunity to get back
in the game, being invested in something where you get
to experience, uh, you know, the thrill of victory, the
agony of defeat, that kind of thing, that kind of
feeling you only get from a scoreboard and competing at
the highest level. Um. But then there's also be in
the San Francisco forty niners, and yes it's a championship organization.
(02:32):
There's five Lombardis we get to walk through in our
lobby each day, and you don't think that drives you.
But also, you know Bill Walsh, we talked about him,
he also understood the importance for inclusion, for diversity our ownership.
Denista Bartlow has always been very forward thinking on including women,
and um, you know, I just think whatever perspective you're
(02:54):
coming from, Hey, you're in the Bay Area, it's a
very diverse community. The way I look at it is,
there are so many people out there. Why cut off
half the work, half the half, half the possibilities, you know,
with women. And I think it was just for years,
like people said, well, women don't do that, And it
took some brave people like the Bill Walsh to say
(03:14):
why not, like de niece to Barlow, and people started
doing it. And so I remember, um, you know, we
started having a want to bring some of that in
our organization and we were looking for it, and you know,
the scouting assistant rolls a great um, great place to
start for that. That's like the breeding grounds of of
people who've gone on to be general managers and um
(03:37):
and all that in this league. And so we were
looking for someone and one of our road scouts, John Stephens,
we a great way to do that in this league
is who do you talk to? The people are out
there boots on the ground, and John Stevenson Sally, I'm
right there, right, John, Yeah, John Stevenson. We asked all
our scouts, said, hey, there's this gal down at two
(03:58):
Lane and she was the dress actor of on campus recruiting.
Her name Sally Clevell. Sally played basketball. But all I
know is when I go on a visit there, that's
who I talked to. Because she's gonna get me to
the right coaches. She's gonna give me the right scoop
on all these players. She's gonna say, here's the academic advisor.
It's just it's very impressive. And so we brought Sally
in for an interview and I remember vividly doing it
(04:21):
and saying, yeah, this would be cool, but we want
whoever does this. We're not giving a token jobs, they've
got to win the interview. And so we brought I
think eight people in and Sally came out on top
and it was unanimous. It was Martin Mayhew, myself, Adam Peters,
and Sally has now been here, uh, started as a
scouting assistant, worked her way up pro in our pro
(04:41):
department as an analyst, and uh, I guess I'm announcing
a promotion on air. She's she's now gonna move out
on the road. She's gonna be our Southwest scout, uh,
replacing John Stevenson who has moved on to to another organization.
And so we're still proud of Sally. And um, you know,
but she's as you used toe as you'll see talking
(05:02):
to her. She's bright, Um, she's she's always got a
huge smile on her face and all that. But what
I love best about Sally is she makes it better.
She's very talented, she takes her job very seriously and
and we're fortunate to have her. Alright, we're back on
set here. Sally Clavel the rising star within the forty
(05:23):
niners organization. For some reason, we say the underrepresented and
that's uh, that's a major positive for for our league,
that we are making strides. As John was talking about
a little bit earlier, what is your personal stance on
where the league is, how we are evolving and and
doing good things, yet there's still considerable space. Yeah. So
(05:46):
I think the league as a whole have done a
really good job making it strives to become more diverse. Um.
But there's still a lot more work that can be done.
It should be done. Um out to be too specific,
but there's a lot of people, insightful, knowledgeable and experienced
people that can help move that needle. UM. I just
(06:08):
think that it will take uh, people just willing to
have those uncomfortable conversations and get in the room and
just say, hey, we have to get rid of the
stigma of just because this is how it's always been done,
this is how we got to continue to do it. Um.
I think COVID has showed everyone that hey, you can
still be really successful doing things differently. UM. So I
(06:32):
just think that people have to be willing, um to
have those uncomfortable conversations and just be okay with that.
I love that answer, you know, I've thought a lot
about that. When we start putting staffs together and we
start thinking about where we're going with women in sport,
women in football. I just think it's beyond admirable. You
look at organizations that are open. I look at you.
(06:54):
Your background is in basketball, right, I'm a big believer
just by the way, John, So you know it all
starts with athleticism and being able to analyze movement. I'm
a big believer in that basketball people have a great
eye for movement. Yes, there's some other nuances to football
that you're gonna be learning. And what an amazing thing
that you're gonna be on the road as a full
time scout. John just announced promotion here on set. Sure
(07:18):
it's coming out. That's really exciting. But to that point,
you do believe that, right, you know, athletes, you know movement,
you know, you know the essence of being an athlete.
Is that important for you as you move into this
next role on the road as a as a full
time scout is a big, big time move Um? Yes, Um,
(07:39):
like you said, basketball help me a whole lot. Right,
So I can tell hey, this guy can move this
guy stiff. I can say, hey, this guy is explosive
in twitchy. This guy is not. He's more of a Mahler. Um, So,
basketball helped me identify those different traits. Um, just being
a scout inistist in here my first year learning the
(08:01):
terminology and how those traits specifically fit into specific positions
and that that's what I learned, and that's what I'm
continuing to learn to say, Hey, yes, I can identify
those traits right now, how do they fit in with
the scheme, how do they fit in? UM just with
positions specific things like that. So that is what I've
(08:22):
been continued to learn. But basketball definitely helped me. It's
a great answer. Again. I mean I sit there and
I think about where we're going with this league and
and what needs changed you had mentioned earlier in the
first do you think, when you step back, do you
think it's more on the individual team or do you
(08:42):
think it's more on the owners to make these major
moves and the increased optics and hires. Yeah, so I
think it's twofold. I think the responsibility lives on both parties. Um. Again,
the Fortidland is arguing to this, and Jail and Kyle.
I think they've done their um due diligence and they
(09:05):
are responsible for you know, hey, just being diverse, regardless
of what they look like, just getting the best people UM.
And I think the NFL, the League office, is also
doing a good job UM. But we also have to realize,
like the league offices, the governing body that sets indicates policy. Right.
(09:25):
I think that as the league stresses policy and policies
UM tends, teams tend to make those mandates are focus, right,
And I think that we as teams should adhere to
those guidelines and not just look to check boxes or
(09:45):
look for loopholes, right. And that's human nature, right. So
anytime a UM, a law, a guideline, or some type
of regulation is set, the first thing we think about is, oh,
how can we get around that? Not how can we
adhere to? So I think that once we change that
mindset of okay, they said we have to do this,
(10:06):
how can we find that loophole of still doing this?
But they're still don't we really want to do? I
think that once we as an entire organization and team
in general, UM get out of that mindset, then things
will fall into place naturally. But if we continue to
try to control mandated things, then we'll continue to be
(10:26):
in this situation and they're always going to be a problem.
Thank you for your thoughts on that. All Right, this
is a question some people like to answer and some don't.
What is your ultimate goal? In the National Football League?
Hands down that that was easy? Yeah, No, that was easily.
I love that. I mean, I think that's I think
(10:48):
it's great. And there are a lot of people, of course,
to around it. And I know there are other other
answers some people throw out, but in the end, I
love that. I mean, you know what your goal is.
And and I'm a shooter. She's a shooter. In high school,
I average like thirty eight points, but I had a
game of fifty. But a tile. High school was super easy.
(11:10):
High school is super easy. Well, you're right, shooter side
right before it. I think I think I'm a big
believer in uh go go big or go home, And
I think I think that's that's the way to approach it.
In life. We talked a little bit about it on
you know, you were listening on the business deals and
making acquisitions and making big time moves and sometimes you know,
legit tough moves that some people won't do. I think
(11:31):
that's really again admirable that you're focused on that, and
I would say in the very end, you know there's
gonna be there's gonna be obstacles, and there's gonna be
the points and the down points and everything. And by
having resiliency again again, and you're obviously a very positive,
upbeat person, and you believe I'm a big believer in
positive passion, persevering people. You embody that. I love it
(11:55):
all the best. You God, bless you, Thank you. You
have been listening to The GM Journey with Thomas Demitrop.
Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews gms from your
favorite NFL teams. The GM Journey has been produced by
(12:16):
Alan Castenbaum, Thomas Demittrop and Octagon Entertainment. Don't forget to
download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you
get your podcast from. The GM Journey is distributed by
the Eight Side Network.
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