October 10, 2023 • 53 mins
KeeShaun Coffey joined the Navy to travel the world and get an education, but after an unexpected turn of events, he found himself in a dark place. Coffey sits down with Jacob and Ashley in this episode of The Good Stuff to talk about his journey, and how he persevered to release the anchors.
Follow KeeShaun Coffey on:
Twitter: @CafeCoffey
__
Follow the show on
Instagram: @thegoodstuffpodcst
Twitter: @TheGoodStuffpodcst
Facebook: @TheGoodStuffPodcst
Website: TheGoodStuffPodcast.com
Youtube: @TheGoodStuffPodcast
Email the show at thegoodstuffpodcast22@gmail.com
Follow Jacob & Ashley on
Instagram: @jacob_schick & @ashleyschicktx
Twitter: @jacob_schick & @ashleyschicktx
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Good Stuff. I'm Jacob Schick and I'm
joined by my co host and wife, Ashley Shick.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Jake is a third generation combat Marine and I'm a
gold Star granddaughter. And we work together to serve military veterans,
first responders, frontline healthcare workers, and their families with mental
and emotional wellness through traditional and non traditional therapy. At
One Tribe Foundation.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
We believe everyone has a story to tell, not only
about the peaks, but also the valleys they've been through
to get them to where they are today.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Each week, we invite a guest to tell us their story,
to share with us the lessons they've learned that shaped
who they are and what they're doing to pay it
forward and give back.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Our mission with this show is to dig deep into
our guest's journey so that we can celebrate the hope
and inspiration their story has to offer.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
We're thrilled you're joining us again.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Welcome to the Good Stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Our guest today is our very dear friend k Shan Coffee.
He and Jacob actually known each other for over a
decade and originally met in the warrior space, which is
a term we used to refer to the unofficial network
of support systems for veterans. Kishan's a Navy veteran himself,
an executive at a major corporation, and an incredible family man.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
When Kishan and I originally met, we were both in
a very different place in our lives, especially mentally and emotionally.
He's here to share his story of growing up in
an army family and enlisting self admittedly for selfish reasons.
He came face to face a personal tragedy on the
other side of the world, struggled greatly for years, and
finally found the resources and human connection to allow him
(01:38):
to become the many is today. Keep in mind Keishan's
a sailor and I'm a marine. The language does get
a little salty, but trust.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Me, you're going to want to stick around for this one.
Thank you so much for joining us. We're so excited
you're here with us on the good stuff, and we're
really excited to dig in and tell your story. I
know you two have known each other for quite a while.
How did you originally meet?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I met Shick. I want to say it was carried
a load.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Twenty twelve, there was a marine by the name of
Mike Rowles who invited me out to carry the Load.
And I want to say it was about two o'clock
in the morning. We were at the turn about. He
was like, hey, you got to meet this other marine
named Shiic and so I remember walking up to Shake
saying hey, trying to introduce and Shick was very short
with his words, like look, bro, you're out here at
two am humping. It says a lot about you already,
(02:27):
and so thank you for being here. And that's how
I met Shike's ten words ten words.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Good flong bond.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
So Carry the Load is an incredible organization and event
that we take part in. This is your twelfth year.
I think doing it my tenth and it was founded
to put the meaning back into Memorial Day for individuals
that want to come out and participate. And when when
Keishan says humping, he means walking.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Man, the Marines call it humping, and then everybody's like, oh,
I can't maybe he says no, It's just it's basically
were forced walking.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And the idea is that you're you know, you're embracing
the suck, you're going out there, you're walking, You're using
your body to honor and remember and carry those that
paid the ultimate sacrifice and can no longer carry it
for us. They've already given their all, and so now
it's our turn to honor them and remember them. And
it's an incredible event nationwide now and the demons sweat
(03:24):
out the demons exactly. That's what really beneficial for so
many guys and gals who have served, and family members
who have lost someone in service to our great country.
Been a really really impactful organization and cause an event
for our family doesn't surprise me. That's where the two
of you met. You told how you got involved, but
how did you find that first evolution of going out
(03:45):
there and humping.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
It was one of those things you have in your
mind set, like, yo, this is going to be fun,
it's going to be raw, like everybody's hyping it up
until you get to the two am walk and then
you start to see that people start to do indo away.
So then you start a questioning like what were you
really out here for? Was it for you know, the sights,
the shows, the people, the food, just the you know,
the fun time to get together or like I think
you really start to find the real soul crushers at
(04:07):
three am in the morning that are just head down,
like you said, cleansing their soul, thinking about the ones
they lost overseas, and you know those are still fighting,
you know, the wars, and so it was a great
It was just a great time. Just just enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I've got shells I leave lighter every year, Yeah, for sure,
you know. And people ask every year, is that's carry
the little big thing? Who are you carrying? And uh,
you know, actually see me say this a lot and
people ask you who you caring and I just say
all of them. Yeah, I'm never gonna mention one name. Yeah,
carrying all of them. Yeah, And that's our duty, you
(04:42):
know what I mean, especially ours, Yes, who've done the
cloth of the nation. It's our job to be the
gatekeepers at their legacy, absolutely till our dying day.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
And you have a lot to draw from. You've got
a family of lifelong service.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yes I do. My grandfather was United States Navy. My
father was a army It's a fun story kind of
I got into the navy.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
My dad was three boys. You know, he wanted one
of us to at least go to the to the army.
And so my brother was a great lobbyist. He was like, look, man,
don't go to the Army. You're gonna get stationed somewhere shitty.
It's not where you want to be. You're gonna want
to go to the Navy. You'll see the world x
y Z. So I never forget telling my Dad's like, hey, Dad,
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you know I'm going
to the Navy, you know, just a look. He wasn't disappointed,
(05:23):
but you can tell there was that. All right, at
least you're still going to go serve Roger that But
it's a thing. Yeah, he wanted me to do it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Now as a sailor, it's a thing.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
It is, it is, it really is. But my brothers
were Navy, so I come from a military family.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And what was it like growing up in that household?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Fun? It was just fun and structured and disciplined. You know,
growing up you kind of hate it. But being a
father now, I now understand why I need my daughter
at six thirty to listen to me and put on
her underwear before.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
We get out the door. Didn't understand it then, but
I do now.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
But growing up with siblings and just my dad being
in the military, it was just it was a journey
of experience. I grew up in a very diverse city
body name of Colleen, Texas, Fort Hoods, the military installation there,
and so you know, at that at a very young age,
I was exposed at different ethnic groups, all all kinds
of people. So you know, you kind of learned to
accept other people at a very early age. And so
(06:17):
I think that was one thing that I truly cherished
about being in the military. You know, just benefits, It's
truly beneficial. So when I got to the military, I
wasn't unaccustomed to, you know, seeing people at that point
at that point, and that's make sure how you're raised
because your dad serious, that's set. I credit my grandfather
the same thing, you know, And you know, I've talked
about this so many times growing up in Louisiana before
(06:39):
I came here, and my dad very strict about content
of character.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And you know, that's still how I roll. Like, I
believe everybody like you suck or you don't. There's no
great area. And that's regardless of the pigmentation in your skin. Absolutely,
you know, But I credit my grandpa for that. And
the Marine cords, the one that changed his views. Yeah,
well not you will.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Absolutely Is that where you kind of developed your sense
of wanting to serve your country or did you always
have this overwhelming desire to go serve your country?
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Well, I guess if it really unpacking here, I won't
say I ever truly had a very hard sense to
serve my country in the very beginning, Like my dad served,
I knew what it meant to, you know, respect the flag,
respect the country. Like I understood that then two thousand
and six, I think, right before the downturn was starting
to happen, Like I was living in Dallas, I was
sleeping on my floor. I was at a junction in
my life where it's like, look, I got to figure
(07:31):
out something because my dad was like, look, I'm not
taking out no more student loans for.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
You to go to Baylor of course, smart man, smart man.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Which I just paid that student loan off not too
long ago, Gratua. That was a big step, big step,
but no, but it was like a I gotta find
something to do with my life. And my dad always
told me like, hey, the military is something where you
can get out from under where you're at right now,
you know, just going to the military and so that's
where I just started doing my due diligence and how
I kind of involved and kind of got into the
(07:59):
Navy it's elf. But I never truly understood until I
got into the Navy what it was like to have
a true appreciation for love for country. Like before I
always saw the commercials like, Oh, I'm gonna be in
a white suit standing on the side of aircraft carry
going into a foreign country, like everybody's gonna love me.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Like I had.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
This this weird epiphany of what I thought military service was,
like just getting out, getting drunk, getting your education, Like
that's what I thought the military was. But it wasn't
until like my first duty station in Quantico, where I
was stationed with Marines, Like I start to understand, like
there's an undercurrent of love and appreciation in the military,
especially amongst your brothers and sisters that you just don't
get seeing a commercial, playing a video game, hearing the stories.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
You've got to go through it.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
And that's where I had a different appreciation of love
of country because now my heart earned, sweat, blood and
tears are now invested into the earth soil to where
I now is like I love.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
It completely changes what you see and you look at
those stores on the short.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Absolutely, I have a different appreciation when I say to
pledgere of the llegiance to when you know second grade,
you're doing it because it's part of school routine, stand up,
do it, you know. But when I do it now.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It's like get you chills. It's like me, I know
what it means and why I'm doing it. You figure
out your why.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
As you as you know, every time I speak after
we here in national anthem, and I always say the
same thing as soon as I walk up, and I
always say, if you didn't get chills, you're not doing
it right now.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
And I'm usually in tears. Yeah, I mean every time
I can't do that song, let's step back real quickly.
So you didn't know at a young age, I'm going
to serve my country. You kind of had other goals.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, I had other goals.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Like I wanted to get a degree in like sports management,
and like I just wanted to go to the corporate world.
Like you know, I grew up in a very small city.
I wanted to go into like a big city, and
so I kind of had that dream of doing something different. Initially,
I didn't have that reserve, like I'm gonna serve my country,
like I know some of my friends had so tell.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Us about you got into the Navy.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
The what Yeah, So going into the Navy was a
fun experience. My brother told me like, whatever you do,
don't trust a recruiter, and I think any person.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And the sad part about it, my recruiter I won't
say his name, was actually a high school friend of
my brothers. And so I was like, hey, I want
to get into a role or job where all I
do is nothing like I was very selfish and I
want to get my education.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
That's all I want to do. I just want to
see the world get me education. Xyz.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I appreciate your accountability, bro. I don't know how big
I am on that because you've seen me call people
out in front of God and everybody about that and
they're like, yo, no, I just wanted to be a
hard charger. And it's like, so when did you start
your first class a month after I landed it? And
it's like, come on, man.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yeah, I just have my own selfish goals that I
wanted to do and have Uncle Sam funded. And so
he was like, all right, coffee, then you should be
an RP. I was like, well, what it's an RP.
He was like, oh, it's a religious program specialist and
you just work with a chaplain at a chapel. It's
the chill ist, laid back job you will ever have.
And then maybe all lives, all lies, all lies from
beginning to end. And so I was like, Roger, that
(11:06):
sign me up. You know, I'm going around telling people, Oh, yeah,
I'm being an RP. I'm being an RP.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Like you grew up religious to right. So it was
like easy transitions.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
He transition, I'll be preaching the people in the field,
say the lives, like, oh, this is going.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
To be great.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You'll want people y'all need Jesus. So what are the
duties of an RP.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Yeah, so, so as an RP, we helped the chaplain
manage the chapel, the base chapels, and so with some
of our duties, we do coordinate funerals with local funeral homes.
We do weddings as well, and christienings and baptisms. You know,
some of the downsides about being an RP is, you know,
we have to do last rights for service individuals. So
whether they're KIA or whether we're going to an hospital,
(11:47):
we help the chaplain provide last rights. And then we
also do notifications at certain times. So if someone I.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Was going to ask that, I didn't know if y'all
had to do that or not.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, we do notifications as well, and so every everything's
just but yeah, it's kind of an all encompassing there's
a lot a lot of parameters, right, And so I
get to boot camp and they were like, oh, you're
going to be an RP, because I guess you know,
rps aren't that popular in the Navy, and so I
was like, yeah, I'm going to be an RP. And
so I go through boot camp and I get sent
to Meridian, Mississippi, and Meridian, Mississippi is where I go
(12:17):
to my aid school for RP.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And I'll never forget.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
We had this first class petty officer walk out and
say okay, because we did our dream sheets and then
the Navy dream sheets is basically where do you want
your first duty station to be? So I picked Norfolk
Aircraft Carrier, Aircraft Carrier, aircraft carrier, Like that's exactly what
I picked. I was like, there's no way they can
mess this up. Nobody wants to go to Norfolk. I
don't know if you ever visit Norfolk. Yeah, yeah, nobody
(12:41):
wants to go to Norfolk. Like I was like Roger
that this is where I want to go. He comes
back and says, coffee camp. You all going to Quantico Virginia.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I was like what.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
I literally thought Quantico was in another country. I've never
heard of it. Like that was my first time ever
hearing a Quantico and I was like, okay, it's like, oh,
by the way, you go on green Side. I was
like green Side? What is green Side? He was like,
your recruited didn't tell you. I was like, he was like, yeah,
you're going to go be stationed with the Marines. I
(13:08):
was like, but what does that entail? It's like, oh,
you're going to camp. Let you and go through boot
camp again. I was like, you gotta be shitting me.
And so like that was like a moment of deflation
green weening. Wow, that's what we call that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Explain to us what your thoughts were when you showed
up and got a taste of that.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Oh man, that was a rude awakenment. So I'll never forget.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Like, you know, those videos you see if like chesty
and him like yelling at people with the drill sergeant
hats and the greens or the bravos I think they
had on.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I'm never forget they're like, get the fuck off the boss.
Wait a minute, the big white buses. The big white
bus is not what I signed up for.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
And I remember we got on the parade deck like
Mustard was every morning at zero four hundred, So we
had to be up at zero three forty five. No,
we had to be on deck at zero three five.
Said late we were looking that we had to be
on decade zero three forty five. Our barracks didn't have
any air conditioning. We lucked out because one of the
guys going through uncle was like a senator, so he
(14:08):
called his uncle. Three months later, after our class graduated,
all the bears got a c's so appreciate that guy.
That's where the weakness started, the softness began. There's this
little city they kind of have mocked up to like
give you, like, hey, your down range, you're going in,
you need to retrieve people out, and like they have
like all these flash bangs going out. I'm like, yo,
(14:28):
what the fuck is? And so like the thrown these
flash bangs. It's like this little smoke and stuff that
they have going. It's like, Yo, this is completely different
than what I signed up for. Like when I went
through my Navy boot camp, like we were on like
this Disney ship that they created. There are sound effects
and music playing, and like when the ship set on
this fake water and we're throwing out mooring lines, I'm like, yo,
(14:50):
this is easy.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Are you so? Are you glad though, even though clearly
it was gnarley and it was a shock to the system,
are you grateful for Do you see now why the
military designs it that way too, because you are going
to put odds are you're going to be in an
environment that you can never simulate exactly, but you'll at
least be somewhat to wear.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, I am extremely glad for that because it gave
me a different appreciation of what you all have to
go through downrange. And then I think one of the
I think the defining moment in my career is like
once I went through this boot camp and I got
stationed at Quantico and worked at OCS, like, you know,
I still kind of felt like the sword throm, you know,
because I was an RP and people were kind of confused.
I also had a no shaved ship because I was
(15:33):
still had Navy rigs and Marines like, yo, what the
fuck is that.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
On the face?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Hold on.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Stats, sergeant.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
But one thing I appreciate is like those marines also said, hey,
you're one of us as well, like even though you
don't have the e g. A you know on your hat,
your yeah, the globe and anchor, you're still one of us.
Like you treated you though, and treated me as if
I was one of their own. So I'm glad I
went through it right on. Then the other part, I
got blindsided when I selected the RP role, Like, as
(16:04):
you're learning your job, did we get to this chapter
where's talking like, hey, if you're on the battlefield, you
know your job is to protect the chaplain and take
a bullet for the chaplain. And so I thought I
misread the shit. I was like, sir, this says here
we're supposed to take a bullet for the chaplain. He
was like, yeah, your recruit didn't tell you. I was like, obviously,
my recruiter left a lot out of the fine print.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
But that's where like.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I was still safe.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I tell people now going into the stairs, like, look, man,
whatever your recruiter tells you, don't believe them, Like, do
your own due diligence. They're going to get you in,
but do you need to truly find out what you're
getting yourself into when you get into that role. But hindsight,
I would truly say that I'm more grateful now that
I did get that role on the Green Side, because
that's truly where I learned about camaraderie and brotherhood. A
(16:51):
great example of that was we were corgy, young and dumb,
and we had motorcycles and we went down from Quantico
to Norfolk, me and a bunch of Marines. The way back,
we're just as zipping in and out of traffic, and
so we get pulled over by a state trooper and
so I was like, you know what, I'll take the
hit for this, but Sergeant Connors like, nah, man, we're
here for you. RP like we're not going to leave
you behind. You know, that was my first interaction. So
(17:12):
you know, somebody mean, like they could have easily been like,
all right, we're gonna get back to base, Good luck
for you, brother, but they like that was one of
my first encounters I was like, yo, Like they could
have easily just said, you know what, you got to
bite this one and we're going back, but they was
like nah, they parked their bikes, they stood there. The
trooper let me off with not even a warning. He's like, hey, man,
let's get back the base safe. Slow down, And of
(17:33):
course we did one hundred all the way back.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
But no.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
But that was just a great example of like for
something that I had a selfish intention of going into,
like along the way, my perception was slowly changing of
like what it meant to serve and what it meant
to look to the left and right of you and
look out for them.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And so humbling is you get humbled.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
You do often, you do, you really do, and you
learn the care aracter of other people quickly. When you're
in those situations where it's kind of like no one's looking,
but everyone's looking, that's when you truly start to define
who are your ship bags, who are your good people?
Who are the soult of the earth. That's how I
got to become an RP in the Navy. But I
loved it. I have fun at olcs, a lot of
(18:18):
god great stories from there.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So where did you go from Virginia.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah, so Virginia, I went over to Yakuska, Japan. So
I actually joined the Navy at that point, and so
I went blue side. The ship that I was on
was the US cow Pins, a cruiser, so we were
part of the seventh Fleet. I think the carry at
that time was US at George, Washington, and we were
part of their air defense whenever we went on our deployments.
And so Japan Yakuska was a different world and a
different experience. It was crazy. I will never forget when
(18:46):
I showed up to my ship for the first time.
I was fortunate. I worked with this chaplain by the
name of Chaplain Jones. He was also at Chronicle with me.
He went over to Japan, and when I was getting
ready to select for new orders, I called them and
we talked about it. I was like, you know what,
it'd be great just to you know, actually experience what
the Navy is like and you know, be a drunken
sailor and have those experiences, and so we talked about it.
(19:08):
I got to Japan and I'll never forget like those
last two and a half three years when I was
in Chronicle, like I was wearing like Marine Corps uniforms.
Like my standards were held at the Marine Corps level.
So during the Marine Corps pet test, everything was that, yep,
just like docs, just like docs. And so when I
got to my base or my new duty station, like
I show up in like my Marine Corps stuff because
(19:29):
that's all I had. I didn't have like my naval
gear because I didn't need to buy it at the time.
And I'll never forget people like, well, look at me weird.
It's like, yo, who's this square away?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Say it?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Or like think he's a shit. I'm like, we're your standards,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
It's like it was an awkward transition because people kind
of always saw me as the RP that came from
the Marines, and like my raq was squared away. And
then I will say, like, of course I started to
adopt the Navy standards. So I was like, man, it's
shits a little too easy. But it was an experience
being in a different country, you know, away from family,
like just being in a complete different culture. You know,
you have the people that want you to be there
(20:03):
because it's a great economic opportunity for the locals. Then
you have the other people who remember, you know, what
happened years ago and don't want us to be there.
And so it was I made a lot of great
friends when I was in Japan, and that was also
just a great humbling experience of just how kind the
people were. And that was something that always stood out
to me.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
That's beautiful, that's I mean, that's why I love traveling
and I love teaching children about travel because it's so
important for us to see how other people live. Yes,
and there's so many great traditions that we can adopt ourselves, Yes,
but especially the kindness. That's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Yeah, and the sushi, Like I never liked sushi until
I got to Japan.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Can you think of one person in particular you got
close to while you were there in Japan?
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Yeah, I will say Chaplin Jones. Yeah, that was my
immediate boss. And he was just a good guy. He
was just a good, solid guy. Of course, you always
think like you hear the chaplain and everybody wants to,
you know, Roger up and perk up because the holiest.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Man on the ship is walking into the room.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
He was open to different thoughts for ideologies, and I
think that's one thing as an RP I learned to
appreciate was at the time being a you know, devout Christian,
I had to support people who had opposite beliefs with me,
so I had to or no beliefs at all. It
was one of those things where I learned like, it's
not about me. Like there was another example of it's
not about me. The first was with the Marines. They
(21:19):
could have left me and said, yeah, to take that ticket.
The second is like me learning like, hey, this person's wicked.
I need to do what's best for them. It's not
about me. That was a unique journey that I've had
with Chaplin, Jones and so.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Together, you know. And I gotta say because a lot
of people know, you know how combatants, like with the
quarterbacks of the military, we get all the praise and
all the everything, but people don't understand for chaplains and
anyone who are in direct assistance of chaplains. And I
(21:51):
feel the same way about anyone especially in the field
medically or even back home during a wartime situation that
work in our military hospitals. People don't have a clue
how much they go through. Yeah, because they are the
catch all for everybody else's stuff, yes, and then it's
like okay, well what's there, I mean, what's their outlet? Yeah?
(22:16):
Or outlets? And how do they just carry it?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And I mean it's compassionate fatigue, like it's a real thing.
It is.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
And that was one thing that I think when in Quantico,
like you know, I had all these guys coming back
from overseas, you know, they were just getting stationed there,
you know, and they'll come to the Chappin office for
counseling and typically Chappin oledge, you know, chapping sometimes like
would just let me sit there like this to be
an observer, just you know, security reasons where the case
may be. But you hear the stories of these people
and they're coming to you saying, hey, RP, I'm dealing
(22:45):
with something. Then you learn how to become this spiderweb
of resources for the base and you're kind of like, okay,
well sarget such and such, let's connect you here or
let's do this. But to your point, like you at
some point you hit this wall of compassion fatigue because
it's not that you hear every story is the same,
but you can kind of get to where that person's
going to go. And then you're kind of like, Okay,
(23:07):
I'm no longer here in the moment with them, I'm
already ten steps of like here's where I need to
connect you to. But you forget to be there in
the moment with that person because for them, that's their
first time going through that journey. For you, that's your
thousand times hearing the story of me and my wife
aren't getting a law.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
To put in perspective for the people listening. It's the
same as when it's operational success, and you have to
have that mindset in order to keep moving forward. Just
because you're pushing through and somebody goes down, well, it's
not an all stop. You can't stop, And I mean
that's not our job. That's stocks job. You have to
(23:45):
keep pushing through because our enemy's not going to be
like okay, game, it's just but it's the same, and
just put it in perspective for people. That's the way
you guys have to operate. You have to because there's
a lot of people behind that person. They're you can
come in with a whole different set of problems, a
whole different set of abundant life situations that everybody knows
(24:09):
and understands you don't have to. You never had to
be in a military that you're trying to help mentor guide, heal,
so on and so forth. And it's I mean, we
know now too, out of the military doing what we
used to do. It's exhausting. It is exhausting.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
It is it's mentally taxing because then it's like what
do you do for yourself?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Like what's your outlet?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
You know?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And chaplain General's is really my outlet, and kind of
vice versa for each other. But to that point, those
people who are behind the lines every day in and out,
like what's their outlet?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
You know?
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Where do they go?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Right, it's clear that the Navy you achieved your goal
of getting experienced, because it truly broadened your horizons, right
from living in another country, seeing how other people live,
experiencing this emotional growth that you went through. What was
it like living on the ship?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Oh man, that's you're not a small guy. Yeah, that
was rough.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Saw where I slept at in the kind of the
four bunks. I was still the most junior person, so
I had the top rack.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
So you got this.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Six foot four, two hundred and thirty pound black guy
always trying to go up and down these other people
rags as all as.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Like being in jails, like hey, brother, don't put your
foot on my rack. I'm like, what do you want
me to do.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I'm not Michael Jordan bro I.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Can't just liftate up to the top rack.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Yeah, and so, but no, being on the ship is
it is fun, It is experienced. I got my sea
legs there, you know, I remember, yeah, I will. I
don't know what I think. It's called drama. Mean, there's
not enough drama. Mean a person can take you know,
when you're out in the black China Sea, like there's
nothing drama. I was trying to get drama in ear
patch butt shots all of them.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah, there was like whatever.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
The only way you're going to get through it is
to go through it. There's no other way, you know,
to get your seat legs. And so getting my sea
legs at first week that was brutal, Like I thought
that was that was painful. It's horrible, it is. It's
Sally can't tell up from down, you know. I'm also
trying to puke from the top and so now I'm
trying to sleep near the couch so I don't piss
off my bunk mates. You know, because I got this
(26:05):
black trash bag hanging down.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Try full of pew. I'm like, hey, bro, I could
only do so much, you know. But no, that was fun.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
But I would say ship life is hectic, you know
what I mean. It's a twenty four to seven operation.
It's never really down time.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Obviously you've gone through a ton of experience here at
such a young age. When did you deal with your
first big heartache or hardship?
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Yeah, I would say that the one that was more
so I awakening for me was in June of twenty ten.
At my ship, I had a good friend of mine,
Christopher Perino, take his life. We was in dry docks,
and every day you have what's called like the plan
of the day.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So typically in the I was admin support is what
I was.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Glad I was kind of an admin section, and so
we will type up the plan of the days and
we'll get it up to the EXO or the Master
chief to sign off. You know, go to EXO and
then you'll go to the CEOs. Hey, here's our schedule
for the day. Drills were going to be running XYZ
and so I remember that day. We get to the
ship and we're walking through the planet of the day
before it sent out, and we hear this guy come
(27:11):
over the one m CE, you know, had a very
shaky voice, and he said, you know, I think it's
like five minutes, five minutes to Colors. So we thought
it was the new guy that had just joined the ship,
you know, and it was his first time on the
one MC, because it's heard throughout the entire ship and
external the ship like first call first called the Colors,
and so we didn't think anything of it, was like, oh,
that's the new guy. Boys' shaky. We're all just like
(27:32):
kind of cracking jokes, blah blah blah. And then we
hear the whistle for Colors to go off at zero
eight hundred zero zero eight oh three because in the
foreign country we played the national anthem and then the
local country plays their anthem and so it's about a
three minute spill altogether. And so then we hear the
final wheelers that Colors are is secured. Then about say
two to three minutes later, we hear someone come over
(27:54):
to the one m CE say man overboard, man of
aboard starver Side. And so at that time our ship
is in dry Dox. Those who aren't familiar with dry dock.
Shot docks is typically where they pull the ship into
this big empty pit they drain all the water from
beneath it so they can work on the exterior of
the ship. And so we're looking through the plan of
the day, like we didn't have a man of a
board drill schedule, especially while we're.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
In dry dock, you know, getting construction work done, so
something just we didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
And then someone came back over one tom see like
a minute later saying, this is not a drill, man
of a board, man of a board starbar side, and
so we originally thought, you know, it was maybe one
of the local nationals who were suspended doing kind of
like the sidework of a ship may have like may
have may have fallen or you know, from being suspended.
Most logical, we could not, you know, we were thinking
(28:40):
through there, and once we heard it was not, you know,
a drill. A part of my role on the ship,
I was also a stretcher bearer and so as you
all know, you can't call a fire department in the
middle of the ocean, even with all the water, so
you typically take on you know, additional Roles. I was
a stretcher bearer, and so as a stretcher bearer, we
got to respond to crisis, and so we I'll never
forget we ran up to like we sprinted out of
the office, ran up the ladder well, looked over the
(29:01):
starbars side of the ship and we see a sailor
face down and it's cover offs and we're like, it
is it's still processing. So I remember running through the
quarter deck running down into the dry Dox was like
one hundred feet so it was a long way to
get there.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Oh yeah, And I think it's important for people to
understand to the magnitude of the size of these ships
unless you've seen one, like you've been up on one. Yeah,
like everybody's seeing them on TV or on the computer
or whatever, but like if you unless you've been next
to one, these are massive, massive pieces of still.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yes they are, they are.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
And that ship at the time in dry do Ox
is also suspended on top of blocks. So what could
be a two hundred foot tall ship is now a
two hundred and fifty two and seventy five foot tall ship.
So I never forget running down, we run down to
the sailor facing down, and I can. I still hear
people saying secure ship, scarship, like I hear people like
frantically getting back there, saying, hey, all hands inside ship
(29:58):
if you're not there. And so before we turned him over,
we were kind of like all processing. So it's like, okay,
you know, grab his foot, grab his head, and like
let's slowly turn him over like this thing, yep, and
turn them over. And so I'll never forget. Once we
turned him over and we saw his nameplate, I was like, fuck, yeah, Perino, you.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
And then you so there's no we have no idea.
We don't know if it was an accident, if it
was intentional, whatever the case may be. We were just
there to try to resuscitate him and revive him. We
turned Parena over. Of course he had like all these
open compound fractures.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Think about that. It was two hundred and fifty feet.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, face first, so you can only imagine you know
what he looked like. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
It was brutal.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
It was really brutal. And so you know, they don't
train you. You can't train for that.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
You can go through all the fake dummies that you
see in the boot camp it is not the same
when you're there in a moment. And so we get
the ambulists arrived, we get him on a stretcher, and
now we put him on a stretcher, and now we
have to carry him two hundred.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Feet up out the dock. And so that was just
say we moment.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
No one was talking to each other, you know, we
were trying to like have a cadence of going up
the stairs because the stairs are about tiny. They're tiny,
They're not like, you know, eighteen foot long stairs. We
can just comfortably go up, like you have to kind
of be locking foot going up. I remember we put
Perino in the back of the ambulance and then like
we all just stood there and it's like a big
sigh just went out, like it was just a deafening sound,
(31:23):
and there was a little puddle.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I'll never forget that.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
I went over and walked to and I kind of
washed my hands because I had some of his blood
on my hands at that time, and we were all
just like what just happened, you know, because I was
shocking to all of us, and so of course the
entire base kind of just ascend it to our ship.
I remember trying to go back to the ship, our senior,
our master chief. I saw him behind one of the
(31:47):
trash cans, like he was just crying. Like as an RP,
and chapin like, our job is try to console. We
try to heal the unhealable, you know. Of course, we
try to do those things that we can't do. I
remember I tried to console them. He just broke down
like mass shapes like it's not your fault, it's not
our fault. We don't know what happened, you know, like
whatever the case may be. And so I remember we
got the call that he was officially deceased. So of course,
(32:09):
as being an RP, like a part of our job
is also to help support the chaplain and doing last rites.
And so me and Chaps went up to the base
hospital and we walked into the morgue probably half size
of this room, a little bit more colder than this.
And I remember we walked up to him and Chaplin
Jones unzipped his bag, and that was a moment in
(32:30):
time where I realize I am not indepensible, like I
can be broken too, you know. And Chaps asked me, like, hey,
do you want a moment, you know, by yourself because
he knew we were pretty close. And I was like, no, like,
I don't ever want to do this ever again, Like
I'm done. As a part of being an RP, all
part of our job is also you know we do funerals. Yeah,
I would say that's the toughest thing to see and
(32:51):
to do, just because like you just see all these
young people coming back, you know what I mean. It's
not like you're going to somebody's grandparents funerals, Like you're
just seeing young people who had lives ahead of them
come back.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
I'll never forget when I was in Quantico.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I think this was my first time I ever was
kind of made cognizant of like veteran suicide. There was
a marine, a sergeant that took his life and they
had his funeral at the base chapel, and I'll never
forget I was standing in the kind of the anax
because I helped coordinate with the local funeral home all
that good stuff. When they come on base, I'll stand
in an annex. And or this little girl that I
(33:25):
think was his daughter, she came back into the ANX
and she was kind of like she asked me like why,
like why did my dad do that? Like, you know,
this is what do you say to a seven year
old kid? Like that was my first time ever truly
having to grass that there was a veteran suicide issue.
Like I didn't know, Like I have my own selfish
reagions of going into the military. It wasn't like the
(33:45):
noble thing that everybody else would have did, and so
it wasn't something that was top of mind to me.
And I didn't have a lot of friends from high
school that joined and that I knew that deployed and
didn't make it back. Like it was something that was
kind of foreign to me. But to be in that
moment with Perino like it was personal, it made it personal.
It made it real. I'll never forget all the conversations
me and Perino had, like in the Chaplin office with
(34:07):
the things that he was dealing with back home. To
your point earlier, that compassion fatigue, you know what I mean.
Sometimes I felt like, you know that those little moments
of guilts kind of like you know, I've heard these stories,
you know what I mean, Like everybody has something going
on at home, like including myself, you know, but then
when you look at it, it's like, man, if I
just had a little more time, you know what I mean,
if I would have took the conversation a little more serious,
(34:27):
like you know, you try to do the Monday morning
quarterback coach of Like, how could this have turned out differently? Honestly,
I would say as an RP, you learn to build
these like emotional callouses and so like it was like
you just become callous, and so I would say I
never truly processed it until after the military, when I
was kind of reintegrating. Then I got out the military
(34:49):
and met shit going to carry love.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, and then everything has been rainbows and roses.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Rose color. Oh, I'm so sorry for your loss and
can't imagine, especially being half a world away from your family, yeah,
and having to go through that and knowing the guy
that personally, Yeah, you then went on, I mean you
had to do the funerals and everything when you came home.
How much did you carry that?
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (35:20):
I carried it a lot, Like I don't think there
was a day that went by where kind of to
early I was kind of like, man, like, what.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Could we have done differently?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
You know, I don't realize we don't get trained on
how to process that stuff. I don't get trained on
I would say anything aside from violence of action on
how to handle anything outside of that.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
It's true, It's very true.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
How did you cope?
Speaker 4 (35:49):
I don't think I did. I just allowed it to
simmer and just spread and I just never truly addressed
it until it decided to address me. And that's why
me and Chapin Jones are so close to it because
like even around that time, he'll text me or we'll
call and say, hey, how are you doing? You know,
when it gets up to that date, you know, and
so that's something that's always positive. But even with the
conversation with him, it's like, man, could we have done more?
(36:10):
Could we have seen something different? Because you know, you
always go through these trainings where it's kind of like, hey,
how do see suicide coming? I don't think you ever can,
Like I don't care as many trainings as you go through,
the signs, like you just never know what a person
is going through. I think for me, when I got out,
the coping was just truly allowing my ego to be
my healer. To your point, nobody ever teaches you like
(36:30):
how to where do you begin to process it? Like
do you talk about it?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Do you go on? Then we don't want to do that.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Wekness you don't want to go do that.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
I think the hardest thing for me when I I
always say when I got out was I knew I
was dealing with something upstairs because something was right, because
I still have a nightmares, Like I just I was
not me. I think the most humbling and I want
to say humbling, but the most embarrassing thing to me.
You know, when we got connected with the place we
used to work previously and starting to learn about PTSD
and things, and started to hear the other stories of warriors,
(37:04):
you know, and what they had to go through on
the battlefield and how they had TBI and PTSD, I'm like, well, shit,
my story doesn't compare to their. It's like, I'm not
going to go tell somebody I have PTSD, you know,
based off an incident that happened, because who am I
to sit across from a person who's a purple heart?
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Don't you now know? Is the completely wrong approach?
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Completely wrong approaches But that's not your fault.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
That was you were conditioned to think.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
That way absolutely, So I was like, who am I
to go to the VA to ask for help when
there's people out there who had hit by an ID,
who got shot, you know, lost brothers and sisters and
saw it happen to the left and right of them.
For me, I always kind of kept that in. I mean,
the people that I work with, they knew my story,
you know, the people that you know when we told
our war stories for individuals that came to hear kind
(37:50):
of what we were doing in the in the veteran space,
they knew about it. But on a wide scale, I
wasn't proud to say, like, hey, I'm suffering too, but
my story is not as traumatic as yours.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I mean, I just felt like there was.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
That's that comparison of pain and suffering and it's like
and it's all relative. Yeah, everybody does it. We all
do it, and it's there's no Richter skill on it. Yeah,
that's the only thing that makes us all equal. That's it.
That's the one thing, the pain and suffering. Stop comparing contrasting. Yes,
it's all relative.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Absolutely, So when you got back, how was PTS manifested
for you?
Speaker 4 (38:26):
I was never really a big drinker, even when I
was like my first year in college, Like even in
high school, Like it just wasn't for me. But when
I got back, like one thing that I saw, like
I became a very heavy drinker. My mother kind of
pointed that out to me, and I was like, oh,
you know what you're talking about. I don't drink that much.
You know what I mean, I'm holding a fifth in
my hand. I don't drink that much. And I also
(38:46):
saw the deteriorations in relationships you know, that I had,
And so a lot of people would say, hey, you're
not the same that I remember. You know what I mean,
you kind of take the fence to this guy. Well,
how the fuck do you remember? Yeah, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Like, how did I change?
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:02):
Yes, I mean there was all these social clues, you know,
when people really didn't want to spend as much time
with me, just because like I was always on edge.
I couldn't understand why. I was just angry, you know,
I was angry at something and I didn't know what
that something was.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
So how did you how did you start to heal?
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Gosh, I'm pretty sure you're scared straight.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I was, so I think the defining moment for me.
It's funny how this story comes back full circle. And
so I was a student at UT Dallas and going
through I'll tell you right now, I graduated with a two.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Point one GPA.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
I will not be the persons like, oh yeah, I
graduated magnum cum latti. I was the smartest. Like you said,
it's all hunky dory. When I got no, I sucked
like I got ass.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I got d's.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
But I kept it to myself, you know what I mean.
Anybody outside looking in thought I was doing good. As
long as I had that GI build that bah hit
every month, I was golding. And that was my goal
because I had no plan.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
But you only had the two point Because I know you,
like you're my brother, You're an intelligent human being. You
just were not applying yourself. Was not at all.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I wasn't in a position.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
I just wanted to make it very clear for everybody.
It's not from not like you were busting your ass
just for barely showing up.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Like yeah, I was giving bare minimum, like just to
get by. But I'll never forget I was.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
I just got finished taking an exam and I was
getting ready to head home, and I got t bone
on the way home, and so like somebody called the ambulance,
like what a responsible citizen should do. And I'm like, look, guy,
don't take me to the hospital because I just know
it's going to be bad.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Like my gut. I avoided hospitals ever since that last moment.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
Who in the hospital, And so I was like, hey,
don't take me there, like I don't want to go.
I'm okay, you know, I'll get somebody profen and water.
I'll suck it up and you know, I'll figure it out.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Water clean socks, you're solid.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Absolutely, rest and elevate. And I was like, hey, don't
take me there. I don't want to go there, like
I just know it's not gonna end. And so he's like,
hey man, you got hit pretty bad. You need to
go get checked out. And so I go to the
Richardson I think Methodist Hospital and I'm sitting in there
and then I can just That's when I knew something
was right, Like I started to have triggers. I started
to have this big panic attack where things were just
(41:17):
I was just like in a time and space didn't exist,
Like I was blacking out, and I remember running down
the hallway in like my red Puma underwear. That's when
I knew shit was fucked up, and I run out
the hospital.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Pretty good precursor, that's pretty good, Like, oh, this isn't normal,
this is normal.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
I remember running out of the hospital and I'm standing
in the intersection, this busy intersection in the middle of
the day, and he's. Fortunate for me, there was two
police officers who were also there, not due to me,
but due to another call that they were there for.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Vaguely remember hearing people saying stop him, stop him.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
I'm running out, like I need to get out of
here because whatever's happened, something was happening, and I remember
breaking down, sobbing on the side walk in the middle
of the in the middle of the street, and these
two officers walk up. It's like, hey, man, like what's
going on. I was like, look, man, I'm a veteran.
I saw some shit when I was in It fucked
me up mentally, and I'm just like pouring out. Fortunate
(42:14):
for me, they were also veterans. It was like, look, brother,
you got two options. You can either a go get
your shit together and find some resources, go to VA
wherever you gotta go, or be grand up dead. This
was two options, Like you're going to see things. I
guess they've seen it a lot. And so that's when
I reached out to.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
A little blessing dude that especially in today's society, But
I mean, it wasn't that long ago that you had
two warriors who happened to just transition over to the
law enforcement officer side to walk up to you and
you just got treated like family as opposed to some
crazy dude and his underwear just losing it on the road. Yes,
(42:52):
absolutely think about how differently that could have turned out.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
It could have turned out real bad. In today's climate,
we see things are different. This was in twenty twelve
and so not that long ago. Yeah, not that long ago.
And so he was like, you need to get you
need to get some help. And so that's when I
reached out to this warrior of Mike Rows. That connected
me with the program that doctor John Hart was doing,
and that was my introduction into kind of the brain
(43:16):
health space and started my healing journey.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
And that's an ongoing journey, isn't it. It is.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
It's a forever journey. I don't think it ever ends.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
You've uncovered some stone along the way that you're like, huh,
didn't know that stone was there.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
And one of the things I truly admire about the
military family is how easily they are. You are able
to lean into one another to understand even though one
of you might have gotten injured in combat and the
other saw some really gnarly stuff in another country, You're
able to lean into each other. It's so important because
(43:52):
you know you're not alone, and you know that you
have someone sitting across from you that you can talk to.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I mean that's why therapy is such a huge deal
to us.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I mean, regardless of what con as you can find
therapy and anything you do.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
It's about who's to your left and to your right.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
And you know, so I continue to have these experiences
of being around people to my left and to my
right that care, that matter, and so the love all
the way, that loved all the way there was no condition,
unconditional love, and that was a part of my healing process.
It's like, well, how can I become an unconditional lover
(44:25):
to other people the way people have treated me?
Speaker 3 (44:29):
I need to treat other people that exact same way.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Once you started your journey to healing forward and started
doing the daily work and empty in that bucket. What
did your grades look like in your master's program in
comparison to your undergrad program.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Yeah, So when I applied for grad school, I thought
I wasn't going to get accepted because I had a
two point one GPA and if you look through the
different requirements, it's like minimum, you know, and bold letters,
minimum minimum bold letters. I was like a view points.
I was like, there's no way I'm gonna get in
grad school. But I was like, you know what, I'm
(45:08):
just gonna apply and see what happens. And so I
remember talking to the advisor and I was like, hey,
before you even look at my application, I'm gonna tell
you right now, I had a two point one undergrad GPA.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
It's not who I am, you know. And so she
basically was like, hey, write a letter telling us like
what was happening? You know, why is this not you?
Why should we let you in?
Speaker 4 (45:25):
So I wrote the letters, submitted my application, I got accepted.
That was like a monumental moment from me. So I
was like, Okay, it's time to reset, you know, I
have a second opportunity to do something. And so like
my first semester, I get all a's I'm like, man,
this just feels so easy. But what I wasn't truly
comprehending was like not that I was completely healed, but
I was on the other side of healing. You know.
(45:47):
I didn't have all that mental weight that I was carrying,
all the guilt that I was carrying, all the broken relationships.
I had support functions around me to where if I
need yep, I had ability to be president and be there.
And so I ended up finishing my Masters and Organizational
behavior with a certificate executive coaching with a four point
zero GPA and a scholar of high distinction. And so
(46:09):
it's a great testament to say who I was ten
years ago is not who I am today. But yeah,
it's it was great. It was a great time.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
That's amazing, ma'am. That's huge. And how beautiful is that
that this and we've seen it over and over again
that it took this valley to get to this peak. Yeah,
and the deeper appreciation you have for life, and the
deeper appreciation you have for your family and your loved
ones and your brothers and your sisters, you wouldn't appreciate
them as much had you not been through that tough time.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
The way I look at life now, and I remember
that moment in the Morga Prino, you know, where it's
like I'm not independable, like I can be broken to
like just like my daughter. You know, I have a
four year old beautiful daughter, and I also have a
four month other son and beautiful wife. I'll talk about
them in a second, you know. But like for me,
the way I view life, it's more so like the
(46:59):
moments of time and interaction in a sense of watching
her develop, like her seeing a butterfly for the first time,
like what I may have taken for granted, like, oh,
that's just a bird, her time seeing a bird for
the first time, Like dad, what is that like? Just
watching her see and experience things like And I was like,
you know what, I want to take all that experience
(47:20):
I've had, like how people love me unconditional. I want
to be that unconditional lover to her and to my
wife and to my son, and to my mother and
to my siblings. So you know, just and just bring
it all back home. But to your point, like I
had to go through that valley to be appreciative to
where I am today. Absolutely most recently, my father and
(47:40):
I were talking and I started to learn more about
his childhood and like how he grew up like in
just a one bedroom house with like eight other siblings,
and how they had to share everything. He was a
baby of the family and you know, the things he
had to go through, and as he strives today to
break barriers, you know, for us, it's the same way
him and my mother to instill, like, hey, we can
(48:02):
only get you so far with the resources we had.
Now I want you to pick up where we left
off and get your kids as far as you can
with the resources that you have, and keep that generational
building going. So you're right, like, it's been a journey
these last ten years of just you know, kicking down
doors and taking names, and I don't know still I
feel like my journey is truly beginning now that I'm
(48:22):
on the other side of the coin.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Absolutely it is. And at this stage of your life,
what inspires you.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
The possibility of what's to come. It's like, what I
truly feel is what inspires me. I think that I
know that I haven't truly reached my potential. It's something
that I think is going to kind of catapult me
to that next level. I took a break from like
the veteran space just because I mean, shit, you're still
in it, and you are as well as like this.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
You're in the trenches, you know.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
And I couldn't continue to do the mental trenches anymore
of like seeing what was happening to us, so I
take a step back.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
So I think I had to take a step.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Away from putting yourself first and doing that.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
You're right, you know I never thought about it like that,
but you're right. I did self care yeah, self care.
Speaker 4 (49:10):
Yeah, And so I need to find my way back
into the vet space and give back because I know
there's more for me.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Of course, it's an easy day, you know, and you.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Know people, well you're here and we're not going to
let you leave.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Yeah, I mean, tell me how you celebrate your winds
now man, I would say, before it used to be
just about me partying. We know stories.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
But I think my celebration of wins today is like
with my with my wife and with my family.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
Before, I think in longest journey was more so like
how can I get self gratification? And so my wins
are now in us, like my wins are more so
for my kids and for my wife and like how
their quality of life is. And that's really what's my
big win is. You know how I celebrate my wins Now,
it's like, can my daughter put on a backpack and
go to schoo you know what I mean? Can she
(50:01):
stop saying to f MOhm in the grocery store?
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (50:04):
Those are winds for me now I kind of celebrate
that I'm doing the right.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
Thing, that I know I'm on the right way. The
winds that matter, yeah, the winds that matter, and celebrating
with the people I love.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
That's freaking beautiful. Well, you've clearly learned some stuff along
the way.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
You know, I'd be remiss if I didn't say, you know,
part of this journey, A big part of it was
my wife. You know, she was truly that crush that
I could lean And I kind of get emotional here,
so I won't get the tear ducks going. But I'm
extremely grateful for her because she put up with my
ship for so many years.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
She didn't have to.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
So I'm extremely grateful for my wife, and she was
my true support group.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
I love you, bro, you know this, and your my brothers,
And that's the way it'll always and forever, be anytime, anywhere, anything,
say the word. You know, I'm not going to ask questions,
but I'll show Kishan.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Thank you so much for being on the good stuff.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Thank you all for having me.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Now you know why I love it.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
He's so great. He brings such great energy. And for
him to open up and tell his story, it's truly inspiring.
For him to come in and speak so candidly about
even his very selfish reasons for wanting to join the military,
that's vulnerability one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
And then how it's grown today into this incredible, strong,
intelligent family man with love of country sitting in front
of us, sharing with us about it.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Executive of a major cor Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Sharing with us. You know what all he's been through
and what's gotten him there, just like we said, through
the valleys, to truly get to and not only get to,
but to appreciate the peak, to live in gratitude, to
have that mindset, it's just beautiful.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
It has not been through lack of hard work and
embracing is suffering and feeling it all the way and
all the things we all have to do to watch
our child see a butterfly for the first time and
it make us give us the ability because of the
work we put in on us to be able to
(52:08):
see the same thing right. That's spiritual stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
I agree. And the self care, you know he touched
on it. You've got to take time for yourself, make
sure that you don't have compassion fatigue, make sure that
you're taking care of yourself so that you can go
truly be effective for others that are in need. And
when you're in need, don't be afraid to reach out
and seek help.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
That's it. You got to make sure your own bucket
is empty before you start helping others.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Empty theirs absolutely, And of course the wonderful lesson of
don't get stuck on the top bunk of a.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Ship, top box, no fun, zero fun factor on the
top on a ship.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Thank you so much for listening. If this episode touched
you today, please share it and be part of making
someone else's day better.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Put on your bad ass capes and be great today.
And remember you can't do epic stuff without epic people.
Thank you for listening to the good Stuff. The Good
Stuff is executive produced by Ashley Shick, Jacob Schick, Leah
Pictures and q Code Media, hosted by Ashley Shick and
(53:15):
Jacob Shick. Produced by Nick Casslini and Ryan Countshouse. Post
production supervisor Will Tindi. Music editing by Will Haywood Smith,
Edited by Mike Robinson,
Welcome to the Good Stuff. I'm Jacob Schick and I'm
joined by my co host and wife, Ashley Shick.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Jake is a third generation combat Marine and I'm a
gold Star granddaughter. And we work together to serve military veterans,
first responders, frontline healthcare workers, and their families with mental
and emotional wellness through traditional and non traditional therapy. At
One Tribe Foundation.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
We believe everyone has a story to tell, not only
about the peaks, but also the valleys they've been through
to get them to where they are today.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Each week, we invite a guest to tell us their story,
to share with us the lessons they've learned that shaped
who they are and what they're doing to pay it
forward and give back.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Our mission with this show is to dig deep into
our guest's journey so that we can celebrate the hope
and inspiration their story has to offer.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
We're thrilled you're joining us again.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Welcome to the Good Stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Our guest today is our very dear friend k Shan Coffee.
He and Jacob actually known each other for over a
decade and originally met in the warrior space, which is
a term we used to refer to the unofficial network
of support systems for veterans. Kishan's a Navy veteran himself,
an executive at a major corporation, and an incredible family man.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
When Kishan and I originally met, we were both in
a very different place in our lives, especially mentally and emotionally.
He's here to share his story of growing up in
an army family and enlisting self admittedly for selfish reasons.
He came face to face a personal tragedy on the
other side of the world, struggled greatly for years, and
finally found the resources and human connection to allow him
(01:38):
to become the many is today. Keep in mind Keishan's
a sailor and I'm a marine. The language does get
a little salty, but trust.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Me, you're going to want to stick around for this one.
Thank you so much for joining us. We're so excited
you're here with us on the good stuff, and we're
really excited to dig in and tell your story. I
know you two have known each other for quite a while.
How did you originally meet?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I met Shick. I want to say it was carried
a load.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Twenty twelve, there was a marine by the name of
Mike Rowles who invited me out to carry the Load.
And I want to say it was about two o'clock
in the morning. We were at the turn about. He
was like, hey, you got to meet this other marine
named Shiic and so I remember walking up to Shake
saying hey, trying to introduce and Shick was very short
with his words, like look, bro, you're out here at
two am humping. It says a lot about you already,
(02:27):
and so thank you for being here. And that's how
I met Shike's ten words ten words.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Good flong bond.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
So Carry the Load is an incredible organization and event
that we take part in. This is your twelfth year.
I think doing it my tenth and it was founded
to put the meaning back into Memorial Day for individuals
that want to come out and participate. And when when
Keishan says humping, he means walking.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Man, the Marines call it humping, and then everybody's like, oh,
I can't maybe he says no, It's just it's basically
were forced walking.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
And the idea is that you're you know, you're embracing
the suck, you're going out there, you're walking, You're using
your body to honor and remember and carry those that
paid the ultimate sacrifice and can no longer carry it
for us. They've already given their all, and so now
it's our turn to honor them and remember them. And
it's an incredible event nationwide now and the demons sweat
(03:24):
out the demons exactly. That's what really beneficial for so
many guys and gals who have served, and family members
who have lost someone in service to our great country.
Been a really really impactful organization and cause an event
for our family doesn't surprise me. That's where the two
of you met. You told how you got involved, but
how did you find that first evolution of going out
(03:45):
there and humping.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
It was one of those things you have in your
mind set, like, yo, this is going to be fun,
it's going to be raw, like everybody's hyping it up
until you get to the two am walk and then
you start to see that people start to do indo away.
So then you start a questioning like what were you
really out here for? Was it for you know, the sights,
the shows, the people, the food, just the you know,
the fun time to get together or like I think
you really start to find the real soul crushers at
(04:07):
three am in the morning that are just head down,
like you said, cleansing their soul, thinking about the ones
they lost overseas, and you know those are still fighting,
you know, the wars, and so it was a great
It was just a great time. Just just enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I've got shells I leave lighter every year, Yeah, for sure,
you know. And people ask every year, is that's carry
the little big thing? Who are you carrying? And uh,
you know, actually see me say this a lot and
people ask you who you caring and I just say
all of them. Yeah, I'm never gonna mention one name. Yeah,
carrying all of them. Yeah, And that's our duty, you
(04:42):
know what I mean, especially ours, Yes, who've done the
cloth of the nation. It's our job to be the
gatekeepers at their legacy, absolutely till our dying day.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
And you have a lot to draw from. You've got
a family of lifelong service.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yes I do. My grandfather was United States Navy. My
father was a army It's a fun story kind of
I got into the navy.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
My dad was three boys. You know, he wanted one
of us to at least go to the to the army.
And so my brother was a great lobbyist. He was like, look, man,
don't go to the Army. You're gonna get stationed somewhere shitty.
It's not where you want to be. You're gonna want
to go to the Navy. You'll see the world x
y Z. So I never forget telling my Dad's like, hey, Dad,
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you know I'm going
to the Navy, you know, just a look. He wasn't disappointed,
(05:23):
but you can tell there was that. All right, at
least you're still going to go serve Roger that But
it's a thing. Yeah, he wanted me to do it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Now as a sailor, it's a thing.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
It is, it is, it really is. But my brothers
were Navy, so I come from a military family.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And what was it like growing up in that household?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Fun? It was just fun and structured and disciplined. You know,
growing up you kind of hate it. But being a
father now, I now understand why I need my daughter
at six thirty to listen to me and put on
her underwear before.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
We get out the door. Didn't understand it then, but
I do now.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
But growing up with siblings and just my dad being
in the military, it was just it was a journey
of experience. I grew up in a very diverse city
body name of Colleen, Texas, Fort Hoods, the military installation there,
and so you know, at that at a very young age,
I was exposed at different ethnic groups, all all kinds
of people. So you know, you kind of learned to
accept other people at a very early age. And so
(06:17):
I think that was one thing that I truly cherished
about being in the military. You know, just benefits, It's
truly beneficial. So when I got to the military, I
wasn't unaccustomed to, you know, seeing people at that point
at that point, and that's make sure how you're raised
because your dad serious, that's set. I credit my grandfather
the same thing, you know, And you know, I've talked
about this so many times growing up in Louisiana before
(06:39):
I came here, and my dad very strict about content
of character.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And you know, that's still how I roll. Like, I
believe everybody like you suck or you don't. There's no
great area. And that's regardless of the pigmentation in your skin. Absolutely,
you know, But I credit my grandpa for that. And
the Marine cords, the one that changed his views. Yeah,
well not you will.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Absolutely Is that where you kind of developed your sense
of wanting to serve your country or did you always
have this overwhelming desire to go serve your country?
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Well, I guess if it really unpacking here, I won't
say I ever truly had a very hard sense to
serve my country in the very beginning, Like my dad served,
I knew what it meant to, you know, respect the flag,
respect the country. Like I understood that then two thousand
and six, I think, right before the downturn was starting
to happen, Like I was living in Dallas, I was
sleeping on my floor. I was at a junction in
my life where it's like, look, I got to figure
(07:31):
out something because my dad was like, look, I'm not
taking out no more student loans for.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
You to go to Baylor of course, smart man, smart man.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Which I just paid that student loan off not too
long ago, Gratua. That was a big step, big step,
but no, but it was like a I gotta find
something to do with my life. And my dad always
told me like, hey, the military is something where you
can get out from under where you're at right now,
you know, just going to the military and so that's
where I just started doing my due diligence and how
I kind of involved and kind of got into the
(07:59):
Navy it's elf. But I never truly understood until I
got into the Navy what it was like to have
a true appreciation for love for country. Like before I
always saw the commercials like, Oh, I'm gonna be in
a white suit standing on the side of aircraft carry
going into a foreign country, like everybody's gonna love me.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Like I had.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
This this weird epiphany of what I thought military service was,
like just getting out, getting drunk, getting your education, Like
that's what I thought the military was. But it wasn't
until like my first duty station in Quantico, where I
was stationed with Marines, Like I start to understand, like
there's an undercurrent of love and appreciation in the military,
especially amongst your brothers and sisters that you just don't
get seeing a commercial, playing a video game, hearing the stories.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
You've got to go through it.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
And that's where I had a different appreciation of love
of country because now my heart earned, sweat, blood and
tears are now invested into the earth soil to where
I now is like I love.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
It completely changes what you see and you look at
those stores on the short.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Absolutely, I have a different appreciation when I say to
pledgere of the llegiance to when you know second grade,
you're doing it because it's part of school routine, stand up,
do it, you know. But when I do it now.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It's like get you chills. It's like me, I know
what it means and why I'm doing it. You figure
out your why.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
As you as you know, every time I speak after
we here in national anthem, and I always say the
same thing as soon as I walk up, and I
always say, if you didn't get chills, you're not doing
it right now.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
And I'm usually in tears. Yeah, I mean every time
I can't do that song, let's step back real quickly.
So you didn't know at a young age, I'm going
to serve my country. You kind of had other goals.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, I had other goals.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Like I wanted to get a degree in like sports management,
and like I just wanted to go to the corporate world.
Like you know, I grew up in a very small city.
I wanted to go into like a big city, and
so I kind of had that dream of doing something different. Initially,
I didn't have that reserve, like I'm gonna serve my country,
like I know some of my friends had so tell.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Us about you got into the Navy.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
The what Yeah, So going into the Navy was a
fun experience. My brother told me like, whatever you do,
don't trust a recruiter, and I think any person.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And the sad part about it, my recruiter I won't
say his name, was actually a high school friend of
my brothers. And so I was like, hey, I want
to get into a role or job where all I
do is nothing like I was very selfish and I
want to get my education.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
That's all I want to do. I just want to
see the world get me education. Xyz.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I appreciate your accountability, bro. I don't know how big
I am on that because you've seen me call people
out in front of God and everybody about that and
they're like, yo, no, I just wanted to be a
hard charger. And it's like, so when did you start
your first class a month after I landed it? And
it's like, come on, man.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yeah, I just have my own selfish goals that I
wanted to do and have Uncle Sam funded. And so
he was like, all right, coffee, then you should be
an RP. I was like, well, what it's an RP.
He was like, oh, it's a religious program specialist and
you just work with a chaplain at a chapel. It's
the chill ist, laid back job you will ever have.
And then maybe all lives, all lies, all lies from
beginning to end. And so I was like, Roger, that
(11:06):
sign me up. You know, I'm going around telling people, Oh, yeah,
I'm being an RP. I'm being an RP.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Like you grew up religious to right. So it was
like easy transitions.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
He transition, I'll be preaching the people in the field,
say the lives, like, oh, this is going.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
To be great.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You'll want people y'all need Jesus. So what are the
duties of an RP.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Yeah, so, so as an RP, we helped the chaplain
manage the chapel, the base chapels, and so with some
of our duties, we do coordinate funerals with local funeral homes.
We do weddings as well, and christienings and baptisms. You know,
some of the downsides about being an RP is, you know,
we have to do last rights for service individuals. So
whether they're KIA or whether we're going to an hospital,
(11:47):
we help the chaplain provide last rights. And then we
also do notifications at certain times. So if someone I.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Was going to ask that, I didn't know if y'all
had to do that or not.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, we do notifications as well, and so every everything's
just but yeah, it's kind of an all encompassing there's
a lot a lot of parameters, right, And so I
get to boot camp and they were like, oh, you're
going to be an RP, because I guess you know,
rps aren't that popular in the Navy, and so I
was like, yeah, I'm going to be an RP. And
so I go through boot camp and I get sent
to Meridian, Mississippi, and Meridian, Mississippi is where I go
(12:17):
to my aid school for RP.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And I'll never forget.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
We had this first class petty officer walk out and
say okay, because we did our dream sheets and then
the Navy dream sheets is basically where do you want
your first duty station to be? So I picked Norfolk
Aircraft Carrier, Aircraft Carrier, aircraft carrier, Like that's exactly what
I picked. I was like, there's no way they can
mess this up. Nobody wants to go to Norfolk. I
don't know if you ever visit Norfolk. Yeah, yeah, nobody
(12:41):
wants to go to Norfolk. Like I was like Roger
that this is where I want to go. He comes
back and says, coffee camp. You all going to Quantico Virginia.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I was like what.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
I literally thought Quantico was in another country. I've never
heard of it. Like that was my first time ever
hearing a Quantico and I was like, okay, it's like, oh,
by the way, you go on green Side. I was
like green Side? What is green Side? He was like,
your recruited didn't tell you. I was like, he was like, yeah,
you're going to go be stationed with the Marines. I
(13:08):
was like, but what does that entail? It's like, oh,
you're going to camp. Let you and go through boot
camp again. I was like, you gotta be shitting me.
And so like that was like a moment of deflation
green weening. Wow, that's what we call that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Explain to us what your thoughts were when you showed
up and got a taste of that.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Oh man, that was a rude awakenment. So I'll never forget.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Like, you know, those videos you see if like chesty
and him like yelling at people with the drill sergeant
hats and the greens or the bravos I think they
had on.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I'm never forget they're like, get the fuck off the boss.
Wait a minute, the big white buses. The big white
bus is not what I signed up for.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
And I remember we got on the parade deck like
Mustard was every morning at zero four hundred, So we
had to be up at zero three forty five. No,
we had to be on deck at zero three five.
Said late we were looking that we had to be
on decade zero three forty five. Our barracks didn't have
any air conditioning. We lucked out because one of the
guys going through uncle was like a senator, so he
(14:08):
called his uncle. Three months later, after our class graduated,
all the bears got a c's so appreciate that guy.
That's where the weakness started, the softness began. There's this
little city they kind of have mocked up to like
give you, like, hey, your down range, you're going in,
you need to retrieve people out, and like they have
like all these flash bangs going out. I'm like, yo,
(14:28):
what the fuck is? And so like the thrown these
flash bangs. It's like this little smoke and stuff that
they have going. It's like, Yo, this is completely different
than what I signed up for. Like when I went
through my Navy boot camp, like we were on like
this Disney ship that they created. There are sound effects
and music playing, and like when the ship set on
this fake water and we're throwing out mooring lines, I'm like, yo,
(14:50):
this is easy.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Are you so? Are you glad though, even though clearly
it was gnarley and it was a shock to the system,
are you grateful for Do you see now why the
military designs it that way too, because you are going
to put odds are you're going to be in an
environment that you can never simulate exactly, but you'll at
least be somewhat to wear.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah, I am extremely glad for that because it gave
me a different appreciation of what you all have to
go through downrange. And then I think one of the
I think the defining moment in my career is like
once I went through this boot camp and I got
stationed at Quantico and worked at OCS, like, you know,
I still kind of felt like the sword throm, you know,
because I was an RP and people were kind of confused.
I also had a no shaved ship because I was
(15:33):
still had Navy rigs and Marines like, yo, what the
fuck is that.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
On the face?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Hold on.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Stats, sergeant.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
But one thing I appreciate is like those marines also said, hey,
you're one of us as well, like even though you
don't have the e g. A you know on your hat,
your yeah, the globe and anchor, you're still one of us.
Like you treated you though, and treated me as if
I was one of their own. So I'm glad I
went through it right on. Then the other part, I
got blindsided when I selected the RP role, Like, as
(16:04):
you're learning your job, did we get to this chapter
where's talking like, hey, if you're on the battlefield, you
know your job is to protect the chaplain and take
a bullet for the chaplain. And so I thought I
misread the shit. I was like, sir, this says here
we're supposed to take a bullet for the chaplain. He
was like, yeah, your recruit didn't tell you. I was like, obviously,
my recruiter left a lot out of the fine print.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
But that's where like.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I was still safe.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I tell people now going into the stairs, like, look, man,
whatever your recruiter tells you, don't believe them, Like, do
your own due diligence. They're going to get you in,
but do you need to truly find out what you're
getting yourself into when you get into that role. But hindsight,
I would truly say that I'm more grateful now that
I did get that role on the Green Side, because
that's truly where I learned about camaraderie and brotherhood. A
(16:51):
great example of that was we were corgy, young and dumb,
and we had motorcycles and we went down from Quantico
to Norfolk, me and a bunch of Marines. The way back,
we're just as zipping in and out of traffic, and
so we get pulled over by a state trooper and
so I was like, you know what, I'll take the
hit for this, but Sergeant Connors like, nah, man, we're
here for you. RP like we're not going to leave
you behind. You know, that was my first interaction. So
(17:12):
you know, somebody mean, like they could have easily been like,
all right, we're gonna get back to base, Good luck
for you, brother, but they like that was one of
my first encounters I was like, yo, Like they could
have easily just said, you know what, you got to
bite this one and we're going back, but they was
like nah, they parked their bikes, they stood there. The
trooper let me off with not even a warning. He's like, hey, man,
let's get back the base safe. Slow down, And of
(17:33):
course we did one hundred all the way back.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
But no.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
But that was just a great example of like for
something that I had a selfish intention of going into,
like along the way, my perception was slowly changing of
like what it meant to serve and what it meant
to look to the left and right of you and
look out for them.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And so humbling is you get humbled.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
You do often, you do, you really do, and you
learn the care aracter of other people quickly. When you're
in those situations where it's kind of like no one's looking,
but everyone's looking, that's when you truly start to define
who are your ship bags, who are your good people?
Who are the soult of the earth. That's how I
got to become an RP in the Navy. But I
loved it. I have fun at olcs, a lot of
(18:18):
god great stories from there.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So where did you go from Virginia.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah, so Virginia, I went over to Yakuska, Japan. So
I actually joined the Navy at that point, and so
I went blue side. The ship that I was on
was the US cow Pins, a cruiser, so we were
part of the seventh Fleet. I think the carry at
that time was US at George, Washington, and we were
part of their air defense whenever we went on our deployments.
And so Japan Yakuska was a different world and a
different experience. It was crazy. I will never forget when
(18:46):
I showed up to my ship for the first time.
I was fortunate. I worked with this chaplain by the
name of Chaplain Jones. He was also at Chronicle with me.
He went over to Japan, and when I was getting
ready to select for new orders, I called them and
we talked about it. I was like, you know what,
it'd be great just to you know, actually experience what
the Navy is like and you know, be a drunken
sailor and have those experiences, and so we talked about it.
(19:08):
I got to Japan and I'll never forget like those
last two and a half three years when I was
in Chronicle, like I was wearing like Marine Corps uniforms.
Like my standards were held at the Marine Corps level.
So during the Marine Corps pet test, everything was that, yep,
just like docs, just like docs. And so when I
got to my base or my new duty station, like
I show up in like my Marine Corps stuff because
(19:29):
that's all I had. I didn't have like my naval
gear because I didn't need to buy it at the time.
And I'll never forget people like, well, look at me weird.
It's like, yo, who's this square away?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Say it?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Or like think he's a shit. I'm like, we're your standards,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
It's like it was an awkward transition because people kind
of always saw me as the RP that came from
the Marines, and like my raq was squared away. And
then I will say, like, of course I started to
adopt the Navy standards. So I was like, man, it's
shits a little too easy. But it was an experience
being in a different country, you know, away from family,
like just being in a complete different culture. You know,
you have the people that want you to be there
(20:03):
because it's a great economic opportunity for the locals. Then
you have the other people who remember, you know, what
happened years ago and don't want us to be there.
And so it was I made a lot of great
friends when I was in Japan, and that was also
just a great humbling experience of just how kind the
people were. And that was something that always stood out
to me.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
That's beautiful, that's I mean, that's why I love traveling
and I love teaching children about travel because it's so
important for us to see how other people live. Yes,
and there's so many great traditions that we can adopt ourselves, Yes,
but especially the kindness. That's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Yeah, and the sushi, Like I never liked sushi until
I got to Japan.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Can you think of one person in particular you got
close to while you were there in Japan?
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Yeah, I will say Chaplin Jones. Yeah, that was my
immediate boss. And he was just a good guy. He
was just a good, solid guy. Of course, you always
think like you hear the chaplain and everybody wants to,
you know, Roger up and perk up because the holiest.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Man on the ship is walking into the room.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
He was open to different thoughts for ideologies, and I
think that's one thing as an RP I learned to
appreciate was at the time being a you know, devout Christian,
I had to support people who had opposite beliefs with me,
so I had to or no beliefs at all. It
was one of those things where I learned like, it's
not about me. Like there was another example of it's
not about me. The first was with the Marines. They
(21:19):
could have left me and said, yeah, to take that ticket.
The second is like me learning like, hey, this person's wicked.
I need to do what's best for them. It's not
about me. That was a unique journey that I've had
with Chaplin, Jones and so.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Together, you know. And I gotta say because a lot
of people know, you know how combatants, like with the
quarterbacks of the military, we get all the praise and
all the everything, but people don't understand for chaplains and
anyone who are in direct assistance of chaplains. And I
(21:51):
feel the same way about anyone especially in the field
medically or even back home during a wartime situation that
work in our military hospitals. People don't have a clue
how much they go through. Yeah, because they are the
catch all for everybody else's stuff, yes, and then it's
like okay, well what's there, I mean, what's their outlet? Yeah?
(22:16):
Or outlets? And how do they just carry it?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And I mean it's compassionate fatigue, like it's a real thing.
It is.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
And that was one thing that I think when in Quantico,
like you know, I had all these guys coming back
from overseas, you know, they were just getting stationed there,
you know, and they'll come to the Chappin office for
counseling and typically Chappin oledge, you know, chapping sometimes like
would just let me sit there like this to be
an observer, just you know, security reasons where the case
may be. But you hear the stories of these people
and they're coming to you saying, hey, RP, I'm dealing
(22:45):
with something. Then you learn how to become this spiderweb
of resources for the base and you're kind of like, okay,
well sarget such and such, let's connect you here or
let's do this. But to your point, like you at
some point you hit this wall of compassion fatigue because
it's not that you hear every story is the same,
but you can kind of get to where that person's
going to go. And then you're kind of like, Okay,
(23:07):
I'm no longer here in the moment with them, I'm
already ten steps of like here's where I need to
connect you to. But you forget to be there in
the moment with that person because for them, that's their
first time going through that journey. For you, that's your
thousand times hearing the story of me and my wife
aren't getting a law.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
To put in perspective for the people listening. It's the
same as when it's operational success, and you have to
have that mindset in order to keep moving forward. Just
because you're pushing through and somebody goes down, well, it's
not an all stop. You can't stop, And I mean
that's not our job. That's stocks job. You have to
(23:45):
keep pushing through because our enemy's not going to be
like okay, game, it's just but it's the same, and
just put it in perspective for people. That's the way
you guys have to operate. You have to because there's
a lot of people behind that person. They're you can
come in with a whole different set of problems, a
whole different set of abundant life situations that everybody knows
(24:09):
and understands you don't have to. You never had to
be in a military that you're trying to help mentor guide, heal,
so on and so forth. And it's I mean, we
know now too, out of the military doing what we
used to do. It's exhausting. It is exhausting.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
It is it's mentally taxing because then it's like what
do you do for yourself?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Like what's your outlet?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
You know?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And chaplain General's is really my outlet, and kind of
vice versa for each other. But to that point, those
people who are behind the lines every day in and out,
like what's their outlet?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
You know?
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Where do they go?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Right, it's clear that the Navy you achieved your goal
of getting experienced, because it truly broadened your horizons, right
from living in another country, seeing how other people live,
experiencing this emotional growth that you went through. What was
it like living on the ship?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Oh man, that's you're not a small guy. Yeah, that
was rough.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Saw where I slept at in the kind of the
four bunks. I was still the most junior person, so
I had the top rack.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
So you got this.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Six foot four, two hundred and thirty pound black guy
always trying to go up and down these other people
rags as all as.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Like being in jails, like hey, brother, don't put your
foot on my rack. I'm like, what do you want
me to do.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I'm not Michael Jordan bro I.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Can't just liftate up to the top rack.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Yeah, and so, but no, being on the ship is
it is fun, It is experienced. I got my sea
legs there, you know, I remember, yeah, I will. I
don't know what I think. It's called drama. Mean, there's
not enough drama. Mean a person can take you know,
when you're out in the black China Sea, like there's
nothing drama. I was trying to get drama in ear
patch butt shots all of them.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah, there was like whatever.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
The only way you're going to get through it is
to go through it. There's no other way, you know,
to get your seat legs. And so getting my sea
legs at first week that was brutal, Like I thought
that was that was painful. It's horrible, it is. It's
Sally can't tell up from down, you know. I'm also
trying to puke from the top and so now I'm
trying to sleep near the couch so I don't piss
off my bunk mates. You know, because I got this
(26:05):
black trash bag hanging down.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Try full of pew. I'm like, hey, bro, I could
only do so much, you know. But no, that was fun.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
But I would say ship life is hectic, you know
what I mean. It's a twenty four to seven operation.
It's never really down time.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Obviously you've gone through a ton of experience here at
such a young age. When did you deal with your
first big heartache or hardship?
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Yeah, I would say that the one that was more
so I awakening for me was in June of twenty ten.
At my ship, I had a good friend of mine,
Christopher Perino, take his life. We was in dry docks,
and every day you have what's called like the plan
of the day.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So typically in the I was admin support is what
I was.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Glad I was kind of an admin section, and so
we will type up the plan of the days and
we'll get it up to the EXO or the Master
chief to sign off. You know, go to EXO and
then you'll go to the CEOs. Hey, here's our schedule
for the day. Drills were going to be running XYZ
and so I remember that day. We get to the
ship and we're walking through the planet of the day
before it sent out, and we hear this guy come
(27:11):
over the one m CE, you know, had a very
shaky voice, and he said, you know, I think it's
like five minutes, five minutes to Colors. So we thought
it was the new guy that had just joined the ship,
you know, and it was his first time on the
one MC, because it's heard throughout the entire ship and
external the ship like first call first called the Colors,
and so we didn't think anything of it, was like, oh,
that's the new guy. Boys' shaky. We're all just like
(27:32):
kind of cracking jokes, blah blah blah. And then we
hear the whistle for Colors to go off at zero
eight hundred zero zero eight oh three because in the
foreign country we played the national anthem and then the
local country plays their anthem and so it's about a
three minute spill altogether. And so then we hear the
final wheelers that Colors are is secured. Then about say
two to three minutes later, we hear someone come over
(27:54):
to the one m CE say man overboard, man of
aboard starver Side. And so at that time our ship
is in dry Dox. Those who aren't familiar with dry dock.
Shot docks is typically where they pull the ship into
this big empty pit they drain all the water from
beneath it so they can work on the exterior of
the ship. And so we're looking through the plan of
the day, like we didn't have a man of a
board drill schedule, especially while we're.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
In dry dock, you know, getting construction work done, so
something just we didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
And then someone came back over one tom see like
a minute later saying, this is not a drill, man
of a board, man of a board starbar side, and
so we originally thought, you know, it was maybe one
of the local nationals who were suspended doing kind of
like the sidework of a ship may have like may
have may have fallen or you know, from being suspended.
Most logical, we could not, you know, we were thinking
(28:40):
through there, and once we heard it was not, you know,
a drill. A part of my role on the ship,
I was also a stretcher bearer and so as you
all know, you can't call a fire department in the
middle of the ocean, even with all the water, so
you typically take on you know, additional Roles. I was
a stretcher bearer, and so as a stretcher bearer, we
got to respond to crisis, and so we I'll never
forget we ran up to like we sprinted out of
the office, ran up the ladder well, looked over the
(29:01):
starbars side of the ship and we see a sailor
face down and it's cover offs and we're like, it
is it's still processing. So I remember running through the
quarter deck running down into the dry Dox was like
one hundred feet so it was a long way to
get there.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Oh yeah, And I think it's important for people to
understand to the magnitude of the size of these ships
unless you've seen one, like you've been up on one. Yeah,
like everybody's seeing them on TV or on the computer
or whatever, but like if you unless you've been next
to one, these are massive, massive pieces of still.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yes they are, they are.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
And that ship at the time in dry do Ox
is also suspended on top of blocks. So what could
be a two hundred foot tall ship is now a
two hundred and fifty two and seventy five foot tall ship.
So I never forget running down, we run down to
the sailor facing down, and I can. I still hear
people saying secure ship, scarship, like I hear people like
frantically getting back there, saying, hey, all hands inside ship
(29:58):
if you're not there. And so before we turned him over,
we were kind of like all processing. So it's like, okay,
you know, grab his foot, grab his head, and like
let's slowly turn him over like this thing, yep, and
turn them over. And so I'll never forget. Once we
turned him over and we saw his nameplate, I was like, fuck, yeah, Perino, you.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
And then you so there's no we have no idea.
We don't know if it was an accident, if it
was intentional, whatever the case may be. We were just
there to try to resuscitate him and revive him. We
turned Parena over. Of course he had like all these
open compound fractures.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Think about that. It was two hundred and fifty feet.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, face first, so you can only imagine you know
what he looked like. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
It was brutal.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
It was really brutal. And so you know, they don't
train you. You can't train for that.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
You can go through all the fake dummies that you
see in the boot camp it is not the same
when you're there in a moment. And so we get
the ambulists arrived, we get him on a stretcher, and
now we put him on a stretcher, and now we
have to carry him two hundred.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Feet up out the dock. And so that was just
say we moment.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
No one was talking to each other, you know, we
were trying to like have a cadence of going up
the stairs because the stairs are about tiny. They're tiny,
They're not like, you know, eighteen foot long stairs. We
can just comfortably go up, like you have to kind
of be locking foot going up. I remember we put
Perino in the back of the ambulance and then like
we all just stood there and it's like a big
sigh just went out, like it was just a deafening sound,
(31:23):
and there was a little puddle.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I'll never forget that.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
I went over and walked to and I kind of
washed my hands because I had some of his blood
on my hands at that time, and we were all
just like what just happened, you know, because I was
shocking to all of us, and so of course the
entire base kind of just ascend it to our ship.
I remember trying to go back to the ship, our senior,
our master chief. I saw him behind one of the
(31:47):
trash cans, like he was just crying. Like as an RP,
and chapin like, our job is try to console. We
try to heal the unhealable, you know. Of course, we
try to do those things that we can't do. I
remember I tried to console them. He just broke down
like mass shapes like it's not your fault, it's not
our fault. We don't know what happened, you know, like
whatever the case may be. And so I remember we
got the call that he was officially deceased. So of course,
(32:09):
as being an RP, like a part of our job
is also to help support the chaplain and doing last rites.
And so me and Chaps went up to the base
hospital and we walked into the morgue probably half size
of this room, a little bit more colder than this.
And I remember we walked up to him and Chaplin
Jones unzipped his bag, and that was a moment in
(32:30):
time where I realize I am not indepensible, like I
can be broken too, you know. And Chaps asked me, like, hey,
do you want a moment, you know, by yourself because
he knew we were pretty close. And I was like, no, like,
I don't ever want to do this ever again, Like
I'm done. As a part of being an RP, all
part of our job is also you know we do funerals. Yeah,
I would say that's the toughest thing to see and
(32:51):
to do, just because like you just see all these
young people coming back, you know what I mean. It's
not like you're going to somebody's grandparents funerals, Like you're
just seeing young people who had lives ahead of them
come back.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
I'll never forget when I was in Quantico.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I think this was my first time I ever was
kind of made cognizant of like veteran suicide. There was
a marine, a sergeant that took his life and they
had his funeral at the base chapel, and I'll never
forget I was standing in the kind of the anax
because I helped coordinate with the local funeral home all
that good stuff. When they come on base, I'll stand
in an annex. And or this little girl that I
(33:25):
think was his daughter, she came back into the ANX
and she was kind of like she asked me like why,
like why did my dad do that? Like, you know,
this is what do you say to a seven year
old kid? Like that was my first time ever truly
having to grass that there was a veteran suicide issue.
Like I didn't know, Like I have my own selfish
reagions of going into the military. It wasn't like the
(33:45):
noble thing that everybody else would have did, and so
it wasn't something that was top of mind to me.
And I didn't have a lot of friends from high
school that joined and that I knew that deployed and
didn't make it back. Like it was something that was
kind of foreign to me. But to be in that
moment with Perino like it was personal, it made it personal.
It made it real. I'll never forget all the conversations
me and Perino had, like in the Chaplin office with
(34:07):
the things that he was dealing with back home. To
your point earlier, that compassion fatigue, you know what I mean.
Sometimes I felt like, you know that those little moments
of guilts kind of like you know, I've heard these stories,
you know what I mean, Like everybody has something going
on at home, like including myself, you know, but then
when you look at it, it's like, man, if I
just had a little more time, you know what I mean,
if I would have took the conversation a little more serious,
(34:27):
like you know, you try to do the Monday morning
quarterback coach of Like, how could this have turned out differently? Honestly,
I would say as an RP, you learn to build
these like emotional callouses and so like it was like
you just become callous, and so I would say I
never truly processed it until after the military, when I
was kind of reintegrating. Then I got out the military
(34:49):
and met shit going to carry love.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, and then everything has been rainbows and roses.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Rose color. Oh, I'm so sorry for your loss and
can't imagine, especially being half a world away from your family, yeah,
and having to go through that and knowing the guy
that personally, Yeah, you then went on, I mean you
had to do the funerals and everything when you came home.
How much did you carry that?
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (35:20):
I carried it a lot, Like I don't think there
was a day that went by where kind of to
early I was kind of like, man, like, what.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Could we have done differently?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
You know, I don't realize we don't get trained on
how to process that stuff. I don't get trained on
I would say anything aside from violence of action on
how to handle anything outside of that.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
It's true, It's very true.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
How did you cope?
Speaker 4 (35:49):
I don't think I did. I just allowed it to
simmer and just spread and I just never truly addressed
it until it decided to address me. And that's why
me and Chapin Jones are so close to it because
like even around that time, he'll text me or we'll
call and say, hey, how are you doing? You know,
when it gets up to that date, you know, and
so that's something that's always positive. But even with the
conversation with him, it's like, man, could we have done more?
(36:10):
Could we have seen something different? Because you know, you
always go through these trainings where it's kind of like, hey,
how do see suicide coming? I don't think you ever can,
Like I don't care as many trainings as you go through,
the signs, like you just never know what a person
is going through. I think for me, when I got out,
the coping was just truly allowing my ego to be
my healer. To your point, nobody ever teaches you like
(36:30):
how to where do you begin to process it? Like
do you talk about it?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Do you go on? Then we don't want to do that.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Wekness you don't want to go do that.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
I think the hardest thing for me when I I
always say when I got out was I knew I
was dealing with something upstairs because something was right, because
I still have a nightmares, Like I just I was
not me. I think the most humbling and I want
to say humbling, but the most embarrassing thing to me.
You know, when we got connected with the place we
used to work previously and starting to learn about PTSD
and things, and started to hear the other stories of warriors,
(37:04):
you know, and what they had to go through on
the battlefield and how they had TBI and PTSD, I'm like, well, shit,
my story doesn't compare to their. It's like, I'm not
going to go tell somebody I have PTSD, you know,
based off an incident that happened, because who am I
to sit across from a person who's a purple heart?
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Don't you now know? Is the completely wrong approach?
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Completely wrong approaches But that's not your fault.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
That was you were conditioned to think.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
That way absolutely, So I was like, who am I
to go to the VA to ask for help when
there's people out there who had hit by an ID,
who got shot, you know, lost brothers and sisters and
saw it happen to the left and right of them.
For me, I always kind of kept that in. I mean,
the people that I work with, they knew my story,
you know, the people that you know when we told
our war stories for individuals that came to hear kind
(37:50):
of what we were doing in the in the veteran space,
they knew about it. But on a wide scale, I
wasn't proud to say, like, hey, I'm suffering too, but
my story is not as traumatic as yours.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I mean, I just felt like there was.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
That's that comparison of pain and suffering and it's like
and it's all relative. Yeah, everybody does it. We all
do it, and it's there's no Richter skill on it. Yeah,
that's the only thing that makes us all equal. That's it.
That's the one thing, the pain and suffering. Stop comparing contrasting. Yes,
it's all relative.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Absolutely, So when you got back, how was PTS manifested
for you?
Speaker 4 (38:26):
I was never really a big drinker, even when I
was like my first year in college, Like even in
high school, Like it just wasn't for me. But when
I got back, like one thing that I saw, like
I became a very heavy drinker. My mother kind of
pointed that out to me, and I was like, oh,
you know what you're talking about. I don't drink that much.
You know what I mean, I'm holding a fifth in
my hand. I don't drink that much. And I also
(38:46):
saw the deteriorations in relationships you know, that I had,
And so a lot of people would say, hey, you're
not the same that I remember. You know what I mean,
you kind of take the fence to this guy. Well,
how the fuck do you remember? Yeah, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Like, how did I change?
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:02):
Yes, I mean there was all these social clues, you know,
when people really didn't want to spend as much time
with me, just because like I was always on edge.
I couldn't understand why. I was just angry, you know,
I was angry at something and I didn't know what
that something was.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
So how did you how did you start to heal?
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Gosh, I'm pretty sure you're scared straight.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I was, so I think the defining moment for me.
It's funny how this story comes back full circle. And
so I was a student at UT Dallas and going
through I'll tell you right now, I graduated with a two.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Point one GPA.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
I will not be the persons like, oh yeah, I
graduated magnum cum latti. I was the smartest. Like you said,
it's all hunky dory. When I got no, I sucked
like I got ass.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I got d's.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
But I kept it to myself, you know what I mean.
Anybody outside looking in thought I was doing good. As
long as I had that GI build that bah hit
every month, I was golding. And that was my goal
because I had no plan.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
But you only had the two point Because I know you,
like you're my brother, You're an intelligent human being. You
just were not applying yourself. Was not at all.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I wasn't in a position.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
I just wanted to make it very clear for everybody.
It's not from not like you were busting your ass
just for barely showing up.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Like yeah, I was giving bare minimum, like just to
get by. But I'll never forget I was.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
I just got finished taking an exam and I was
getting ready to head home, and I got t bone
on the way home, and so like somebody called the ambulance,
like what a responsible citizen should do. And I'm like, look, guy,
don't take me to the hospital because I just know
it's going to be bad.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Like my gut. I avoided hospitals ever since that last moment.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
Who in the hospital, And so I was like, hey,
don't take me there, like I don't want to go.
I'm okay, you know, I'll get somebody profen and water.
I'll suck it up and you know, I'll figure it out.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Water clean socks, you're solid.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Absolutely, rest and elevate. And I was like, hey, don't
take me there. I don't want to go there, like
I just know it's not gonna end. And so he's like,
hey man, you got hit pretty bad. You need to
go get checked out. And so I go to the
Richardson I think Methodist Hospital and I'm sitting in there
and then I can just That's when I knew something
was right, Like I started to have triggers. I started
to have this big panic attack where things were just
(41:17):
I was just like in a time and space didn't exist,
Like I was blacking out, and I remember running down
the hallway in like my red Puma underwear. That's when
I knew shit was fucked up, and I run out
the hospital.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Pretty good precursor, that's pretty good, Like, oh, this isn't normal,
this is normal.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
I remember running out of the hospital and I'm standing
in the intersection, this busy intersection in the middle of
the day, and he's. Fortunate for me, there was two
police officers who were also there, not due to me,
but due to another call that they were there for.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Vaguely remember hearing people saying stop him, stop him.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
I'm running out, like I need to get out of
here because whatever's happened, something was happening, and I remember
breaking down, sobbing on the side walk in the middle
of the in the middle of the street, and these
two officers walk up. It's like, hey, man, like what's
going on. I was like, look, man, I'm a veteran.
I saw some shit when I was in It fucked
me up mentally, and I'm just like pouring out. Fortunate
(42:14):
for me, they were also veterans. It was like, look, brother,
you got two options. You can either a go get
your shit together and find some resources, go to VA
wherever you gotta go, or be grand up dead. This
was two options, Like you're going to see things. I
guess they've seen it a lot. And so that's when
I reached out to.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
A little blessing dude that especially in today's society, But
I mean, it wasn't that long ago that you had
two warriors who happened to just transition over to the
law enforcement officer side to walk up to you and
you just got treated like family as opposed to some
crazy dude and his underwear just losing it on the road. Yes,
(42:52):
absolutely think about how differently that could have turned out.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
It could have turned out real bad. In today's climate,
we see things are different. This was in twenty twelve
and so not that long ago. Yeah, not that long ago.
And so he was like, you need to get you
need to get some help. And so that's when I
reached out to this warrior of Mike Rows. That connected
me with the program that doctor John Hart was doing,
and that was my introduction into kind of the brain
(43:16):
health space and started my healing journey.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
And that's an ongoing journey, isn't it. It is.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
It's a forever journey. I don't think it ever ends.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
You've uncovered some stone along the way that you're like, huh,
didn't know that stone was there.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
And one of the things I truly admire about the
military family is how easily they are. You are able
to lean into one another to understand even though one
of you might have gotten injured in combat and the
other saw some really gnarly stuff in another country, You're
able to lean into each other. It's so important because
(43:52):
you know you're not alone, and you know that you
have someone sitting across from you that you can talk to.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I mean that's why therapy is such a huge deal
to us.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I mean, regardless of what con as you can find
therapy and anything you do.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
It's about who's to your left and to your right.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
And you know, so I continue to have these experiences
of being around people to my left and to my
right that care, that matter, and so the love all
the way, that loved all the way there was no condition,
unconditional love, and that was a part of my healing process.
It's like, well, how can I become an unconditional lover
(44:25):
to other people the way people have treated me?
Speaker 3 (44:29):
I need to treat other people that exact same way.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Once you started your journey to healing forward and started
doing the daily work and empty in that bucket. What
did your grades look like in your master's program in
comparison to your undergrad program.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Yeah, So when I applied for grad school, I thought
I wasn't going to get accepted because I had a
two point one GPA and if you look through the
different requirements, it's like minimum, you know, and bold letters,
minimum minimum bold letters. I was like a view points.
I was like, there's no way I'm gonna get in
grad school. But I was like, you know what, I'm
(45:08):
just gonna apply and see what happens. And so I
remember talking to the advisor and I was like, hey,
before you even look at my application, I'm gonna tell
you right now, I had a two point one undergrad GPA.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
It's not who I am, you know. And so she
basically was like, hey, write a letter telling us like
what was happening? You know, why is this not you?
Why should we let you in?
Speaker 4 (45:25):
So I wrote the letters, submitted my application, I got accepted.
That was like a monumental moment from me. So I
was like, Okay, it's time to reset, you know, I
have a second opportunity to do something. And so like
my first semester, I get all a's I'm like, man,
this just feels so easy. But what I wasn't truly
comprehending was like not that I was completely healed, but
I was on the other side of healing. You know.
(45:47):
I didn't have all that mental weight that I was carrying,
all the guilt that I was carrying, all the broken relationships.
I had support functions around me to where if I
need yep, I had ability to be president and be there.
And so I ended up finishing my Masters and Organizational
behavior with a certificate executive coaching with a four point
zero GPA and a scholar of high distinction. And so
(46:09):
it's a great testament to say who I was ten
years ago is not who I am today. But yeah,
it's it was great. It was a great time.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
That's amazing, ma'am. That's huge. And how beautiful is that
that this and we've seen it over and over again
that it took this valley to get to this peak. Yeah,
and the deeper appreciation you have for life, and the
deeper appreciation you have for your family and your loved
ones and your brothers and your sisters, you wouldn't appreciate
them as much had you not been through that tough time.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
The way I look at life now, and I remember
that moment in the Morga Prino, you know, where it's
like I'm not independable, like I can be broken to
like just like my daughter. You know, I have a
four year old beautiful daughter, and I also have a
four month other son and beautiful wife. I'll talk about
them in a second, you know. But like for me,
the way I view life, it's more so like the
(46:59):
moments of time and interaction in a sense of watching
her develop, like her seeing a butterfly for the first time,
like what I may have taken for granted, like, oh,
that's just a bird, her time seeing a bird for
the first time, Like dad, what is that like? Just
watching her see and experience things like And I was like,
you know what, I want to take all that experience
(47:20):
I've had, like how people love me unconditional. I want
to be that unconditional lover to her and to my
wife and to my son, and to my mother and
to my siblings. So you know, just and just bring
it all back home. But to your point, like I
had to go through that valley to be appreciative to
where I am today. Absolutely most recently, my father and
(47:40):
I were talking and I started to learn more about
his childhood and like how he grew up like in
just a one bedroom house with like eight other siblings,
and how they had to share everything. He was a
baby of the family and you know, the things he
had to go through, and as he strives today to
break barriers, you know, for us, it's the same way
him and my mother to instill, like, hey, we can
(48:02):
only get you so far with the resources we had.
Now I want you to pick up where we left
off and get your kids as far as you can
with the resources that you have, and keep that generational
building going. So you're right, like, it's been a journey
these last ten years of just you know, kicking down
doors and taking names, and I don't know still I
feel like my journey is truly beginning now that I'm
(48:22):
on the other side of the coin.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Absolutely it is. And at this stage of your life,
what inspires you.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
The possibility of what's to come. It's like, what I
truly feel is what inspires me. I think that I
know that I haven't truly reached my potential. It's something
that I think is going to kind of catapult me
to that next level. I took a break from like
the veteran space just because I mean, shit, you're still
in it, and you are as well as like this.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
You're in the trenches, you know.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
And I couldn't continue to do the mental trenches anymore
of like seeing what was happening to us, so I
take a step back.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
So I think I had to take a step.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Away from putting yourself first and doing that.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
You're right, you know I never thought about it like that,
but you're right. I did self care yeah, self care.
Speaker 4 (49:10):
Yeah, And so I need to find my way back
into the vet space and give back because I know
there's more for me.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Of course, it's an easy day, you know, and you.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Know people, well you're here and we're not going to
let you leave.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Yeah, I mean, tell me how you celebrate your winds
now man, I would say, before it used to be
just about me partying. We know stories.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
But I think my celebration of wins today is like
with my with my wife and with my family.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
Before, I think in longest journey was more so like
how can I get self gratification? And so my wins
are now in us, like my wins are more so
for my kids and for my wife and like how
their quality of life is. And that's really what's my
big win is. You know how I celebrate my wins Now,
it's like, can my daughter put on a backpack and
go to schoo you know what I mean? Can she
(50:01):
stop saying to f MOhm in the grocery store?
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (50:04):
Those are winds for me now I kind of celebrate
that I'm doing the right.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
Thing, that I know I'm on the right way. The
winds that matter, yeah, the winds that matter, and celebrating
with the people I love.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
That's freaking beautiful. Well, you've clearly learned some stuff along
the way.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
You know, I'd be remiss if I didn't say, you know,
part of this journey, A big part of it was
my wife. You know, she was truly that crush that
I could lean And I kind of get emotional here,
so I won't get the tear ducks going. But I'm
extremely grateful for her because she put up with my
ship for so many years.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
She didn't have to.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
So I'm extremely grateful for my wife, and she was
my true support group.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
I love you, bro, you know this, and your my brothers,
And that's the way it'll always and forever, be anytime, anywhere, anything,
say the word. You know, I'm not going to ask questions,
but I'll show Kishan.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Thank you so much for being on the good stuff.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Thank you all for having me.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Now you know why I love it.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
He's so great. He brings such great energy. And for
him to open up and tell his story, it's truly inspiring.
For him to come in and speak so candidly about
even his very selfish reasons for wanting to join the military,
that's vulnerability one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
And then how it's grown today into this incredible, strong,
intelligent family man with love of country sitting in front
of us, sharing with us about it.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Executive of a major cor Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Sharing with us. You know what all he's been through
and what's gotten him there, just like we said, through
the valleys, to truly get to and not only get to,
but to appreciate the peak, to live in gratitude, to
have that mindset, it's just beautiful.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
It has not been through lack of hard work and
embracing is suffering and feeling it all the way and
all the things we all have to do to watch
our child see a butterfly for the first time and
it make us give us the ability because of the
work we put in on us to be able to
(52:08):
see the same thing right. That's spiritual stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
I agree. And the self care, you know he touched
on it. You've got to take time for yourself, make
sure that you don't have compassion fatigue, make sure that
you're taking care of yourself so that you can go
truly be effective for others that are in need. And
when you're in need, don't be afraid to reach out
and seek help.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
That's it. You got to make sure your own bucket
is empty before you start helping others.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Empty theirs absolutely, And of course the wonderful lesson of
don't get stuck on the top bunk of a.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Ship, top box, no fun, zero fun factor on the
top on a ship.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Thank you so much for listening. If this episode touched
you today, please share it and be part of making
someone else's day better.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Put on your bad ass capes and be great today.
And remember you can't do epic stuff without epic people.
Thank you for listening to the good Stuff. The Good
Stuff is executive produced by Ashley Shick, Jacob Schick, Leah
Pictures and q Code Media, hosted by Ashley Shick and
(53:15):
Jacob Shick. Produced by Nick Casslini and Ryan Countshouse. Post
production supervisor Will Tindi. Music editing by Will Haywood Smith,
Edited by Mike Robinson,
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.