November 13, 2025 • 48 mins
Seth and Tray discuss the best players who ran point in the 80's... From Magic and Isiah, to Stockton and Dennis Johnson. They dive deep into what takes a point guard from good to great, and why some guys made the Top-5 of the decade and other stars were left off the list. Seth goes into detail on what made Derek Harper stand out on defense, and Tray gets into why he will always support Norm Nixon. They also discuss Micheal Ray Richardson, who passed away after we recorded the show, and why his 4 All-Star appearances deserve a ton of respect. Prayers to Micheal Ray and his family, rest in peace.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
That's why I got a problem with the new CBA
as far as parody man, because you're breaking up these teams,
these dynasties who be together, and these great teams, and
obviously they are favorites to win year and if you
got a great team, they're favorites to win year in
year out. But it was fun to root against trying
to knock these teams off, Like you want to knock
off the Celtics, you want to knock off the Warriors,
(00:22):
who you think is the favorite every year. These different
teams like the Calves that everybody in the East was trying,
was hunting to knock off the Calves. That that that
brought drama and a team.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hidden admiration because you going camp saying we gotta be
like these guys, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Now I was like all right, and I was like, oh,
they're gon They're only gonna be good for a couple
of years and they're not like the best people saying
about it. Okay, see now like they're they're a monster
for these next three years, but after that they're gonna
they gonna have to break it up somebody.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
To case somebody, somebody got to I don't like that
I don't like it. They get better, That's all I said.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Get better.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Bro.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Welcome back to another episode of Greatest of their era.
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Dot Trade? What's up? What's up? Another episode? Man, let's
get out to what.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Man, we've been putting out some bangers. Man. I can't
I can't front. I can't front.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, we deep diving, many reminiscing talking about some some
hoopers out here.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Man, that's a couple of people attacked me in the
in the comments in the DMS.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's great what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You know, Harden shouldn't have been on the point. Guardless,
he didn't really run the offense as much. You know,
they felt I should have pushed back a little bit
on Steph being one of the you know, playmakers, and I.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Just was like, I can't. Can't debate with somebody who's
on the team that actually sees the.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Inner makings of it in a way that I'm not
viewing it, you know what I mean. I can see
it from a certain perspective because I get it, but
he's still a huge part of the initiation of the offense.
That's why I'm like, I don't understand that logic of
going up against it.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So yeah, that's what that's what we debate. That's the argument, like, yeah,
you've seen you just because people can do multiple things
don't mean they're not elite at this one area that
they just don't show as often. So it's part of
the argument, man. But today we got what's the topic
for today.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Man, So we're going to blast from the past. We're
going to the eighties man, point Guard's greatest point Guards
of the eighties, Man, And it's some classic you know,
way before your time, a little bit my time, I
called the tail end of it. But man, some names,
some familiar names, and some legends that you've crossed paths,
and uh, you know, this should be a good one, man,
especially the credentials, the resumes. Obviously we've had point Guard
(02:42):
episodes before, but this is where the change of the
guard happens. When you're thinking about the actual big guard.
Magic Johnson enters the you know, the playing field. You
got Isaiah Thomas bringing a different style. John Stockton, you
know what I mean, where guys are looking at somebody
trying to you know, oh, he might not do anything
(03:02):
in John Stockton. You hear all the stories about how
good he is and then you know, the list goes on,
so we're gonna jump right into it.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, and I mentioned Magic Johnson, you know, Hall of Famer,
twelve time All Star, ten time All NBA, three time MVP,
three time Finals MVP, five time champion, member of the
NBA's fiftieth and seventy five Anniversary teams.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
He's won at every level. He's still winning.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You know, I got my Dodger cap on. I'm a
Yankees fan, but he's just won a title with the Dodgers.
Magic Johnson, man winter in life, but also six' nine point.
Guard you, Know kareem goes down in that finals his rookie,
year he plays, center ends up winning a title as a,
rookie AND i think sometimes this legacy kind of gets
not brushed. Over he's more of the old head, goat
(03:47):
you know WHAT i. Mean we talk to a lot
of people and they, say, yeah, yeah because you, know
LIKE i feel like everybody that's born in the, nineties late,
EIGHTIES i mean mid, eighties that watched in the Nineties,
MJ's they got anybody that's born in mid, seventies late,
Seventies Magic johnson's the greatest thing Ever he'll never be,
overtop you, Know kobe would never pass him as the Greatest. Laker,
(04:10):
like it's just certain things that Just magic just did,
that like they swear by and it was just winning
titles so consecutively even though he always had, squads.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Right AND i think part of that is part of the.
Culture like he he him And Larry bird saved THE
nba saved, Literally so it's like that part of that
goes into his. Legacy like Obviously magic is magic on the.
Floor he's the ultimate leader that shows ran the show
for their Showtime lakers kind, OF i think he laid
the foundation for That laker franchise or of what it is,
(04:40):
Now like you don't we need to talk about that
because you have certain players that are synonymous with an
organization and laid the foundation for like a historical not
only basketball, franchise but a sports franchise around the. Globe
like obviously you Got kobe who In shaq who puts it,
Along But magic laid the foundation and made it what it,
(05:01):
is and you got players LIKE i mean you think
about staff with The, Warriors lady foundation for what That
warriors franchise. Is you Got yankees, guys The cowboys, guys
you got the Eight men's The Michael, Irvins Emms smith's
laid that. Foundation magic is in that in that round
as far as being a legend on the, floor but
also just growing the game and, growing growing the league
(05:24):
into what it.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Is COLOR tv, Dynasties that's WHAT i call, it you
know WHAT i, mean because like when you think about The, celtics,
yeah The lawyer's, there eight team, League but when you
think About, dynasty Original, dynasty there's no weed these box
without The, lakers you know WHAT i. Mean like when
you get those type of, things you think about just
an ultimate. Winner obviously he, changing you, know his coaches were,
(05:46):
changed you know WHAT i, Mean Wes paul To, riley
they start, running they become you, know they they basically
boost the entertainment value of THE. Nba and now you
Got Larry birdacross who doesn't play the same. Position there's
almost near in. Height they had the rivalry since college a.
(06:07):
Storybook you, know the league was just kind of getting
off of the drug. Rhythm you, know players in. There you,
know they had The comeback of The Year award for
the drug players that went through rehabilitation and, played And
magic in them was just so clean cut endorsement. Wise you,
know when you think about everything That magic's, done.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Especially for the point guard, POSITION.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I think it didn't make it a disadvantage for shorter
guys like, us BUT i think that it just showed
how talented players, are you know WHAT i, mean like
the evolution of the. Game like If magic had the
wrong coach and made him post, up we never get
That Magic.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Johnson that's WHAT i was about to. SAY i Think
magic like to dive into his game on the. Floor
he could have been whatever he wanted to, be, right
he could have been a bigger have been that that
like you said that three through five man on the
on the. Floor but he had the skills to play point.
Guard so they needed that point guard position when he
first got to The lakers because they obviously Had kareem
and Really hall of famers at every heavy. Position, yeah
(07:07):
and he came in and he was running the show
like he thought the. Game it was. Levels like he,
said he could have gone out there and scored thirty
at night if he wanted. To he could. HAVE i,
mean obviously was he was spreading the spreading the ball,
around getting guys that touches and making everybody happy on
his team full of all, stars like some say he's
like he had stacked, Teams but that's a gift and a.
(07:27):
Curse you got that much, talent you got to make everybody,
happy you got to, lead the lead the, show and
you got to sacrifice some of your scoring maybe just
to make everybody. Happy and he did it with, grace
he did it with flair and. Flash and he's another
one of those guys who always talk about as far
as obviously you want his main goals to go out
there and win and play. Well but when he steps
on that, floor he trying to put on the. Show
(07:48):
he trying to, entertain and that's still that's still who
he is to today off the, floor like he's a
he's an entertainer at, heart AND i mean That's magic Is,
magic like the nickname Is conic as, Well AND i.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Mean he managed to get you know, MVPs you know
three three league MVPs as a point guard and then
just constantly. WIN i think the ultimate goal was always.
Winning AND i think that's one of the things that
Separates Magic johnson from a lot of. People this next
player also A hall Of, famer twelve Time All, star
five Time ALL, nba two TIME Nba, champion back to
(08:23):
BACK Nba Champion FINALS, mvp two Time All STAR. Mvp
Isaiah thomas like one of the most underrated you know
WHAT i, Mean like early on WHEN i used to
have my point guard, conversations and you, Know steph had
won his first one and THEN i think he won
his second one out even even when he won his,
THIRD i still was Putting isaiah there.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Just because the style of play he.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Had you, know it's a little tough to kind of
edge it out now Because steph just kept, winning you
know WHAT i mean to that, Point but they were
just a team and really Stopped Michael jordan.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
From eaton in the. Eighties you get What i'm, Saying
like they was really a.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Roadblock so the idea of you, know the infamous game
where HE i don't, know he didn't break his, ankle
but he had a really really bad sprain and he
was hobbling and went crazy on The, lakers you know
WHAT i. Mean, like he's also another guy that Beat,
magic so got you gotta give him, love, man you
know What i'm. Saying but also WHEN i think about
in the future when we get to these twenty, tens
(09:21):
with the twenty twenties and twenty tens and twenty, twenties
and you think.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Of, steph he'd bet, bron you know WHAT i.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Mean so those are the legitimate arguments that you can
bring to those tables when you, say all, right yes
you want, titles but.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Who did you beat when you were playing for the?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Title, yeah you have all these all time, greats all
these goats and their eras like you talk About, MJ's
The Magic's, Dynasty, lakers The, bulls whoever they, are all
these all these teams, stacked and it Was isaiah who
was ahead of The, snake and these they had to
go Through. ISAIAH mj had to go Through isaiah to
(09:57):
crown him as the best player in the. League, SO i,
mean he's the ultimate competitor to, me nasty competitor he,
was LIKE i, said he was ahead of That, snake
of that Nasty detroit Bad boys teams and nobody like to.
Play and he's A i think similar The. Magic he
sacrificed a lot of stats to play that point guard.
Position it was just the the the way the game
(10:20):
was played and the way point guards felt they had
to do it be back in the. Eighties WAS i
GOTTA i gotta. LEAD i. CAN'T i can't leave my
team in. SHOTS i, can't you know What i'm. SAYING
i can't be out there trying to score the majority
time on the. FLOOR i gotta set to run to the.
OFFENSE i gotta gotta Get joe the. BALL i gotta
get these other guys the ball and get them that.
Shots and HE i THINK i said he sacrificed points
to to be that that natural point. Guard AND i
(10:42):
mean he's he's up there to me like HE'S i
don't Think i've said this in the. PAST i don't
think he get him and those pitching teams don't get
that just due for whatever. REASON i, MEAN i think
some personal stuff going on behind the scenes with the
league and obviously.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
How they how they were Enforcers man And.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yea they didn't like the. Image David sterr didn't like the.
Image they didn't want THE nba to turn into, that
WHICH i, MEAN i understand it's a business at the
end of the, day but their competitors don't think they
get they just DOING nba history as far as they're
like the telling that story.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
THE Nba, raiders do you know WHAT i mean when
you really think about, It like that's where the bad
boys image come. From, man they're just kind of embodying,
toughness you know WHAT i. Mean, Like, hey and you,
Know i've seen a quote not too long Ago isaiah
said he watches these, games but it like kind of
makes his stomach hurt because guys are okay with getting
(11:35):
scored thirty, on you know WHAT i. Mean obviously the
offense is a little. Different there's a little bit favoring
the offensive player in this. Era but he just said
he would have sleepless nights if somebody went crazy on
him because he got to get them. Back AND i
think that's the kickoff fire of this era because If magic,
won he was pissed On Larry. Bird If magic, One isaiah's,
(11:58):
Mad he's in the. Gym he's not talking to, no
you know WHAT i, Mean Like Michael. Jordan the list goes.
On when you think about the greats and the competition in,
it and not saying that our era doesn't have, competition
but it's just like you don't see. IT i guess
it's not advertised as much as. RIVALRIES i think we
need to welcome. IT i, mean obviously.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
On the, floor but he took HIS i feel like
he took his his his competition on the. Floor, personally
he took it off the, floor and he wasnt gonna
let it go until until he retired or to this,
day he still holds some of them.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
GRUDGES i think modern DAY nba needs.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Villains, yeah you know WHAT i, Mean, LIKE i get,
it it's a big, business but you need a. Villain
i'm talking about a good, villain not the villain that's.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Just, like all, Right i'm a defensive.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Player who is who's the most similar villain To Isaiah
thomason in today's. Game you obviously got The Dylan, brooks
but not as. Good you gotta have. All you gotta
have A i don't. KNOW i think the only hill
right now Is Kevin. DURANT i, Mean ron was probably
the number one heel and when he went to the,
heat but it wasn't don't be for players like. That,
(13:05):
nah he's with organizations and. Fans but, YEAH i don't.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
THINK i don't think we have.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
ONE i think everybody has a mutual respect for, everybody
which is. Cool even watching the banter on social. Media
it's like fans get up in, arms, like, yo you
can't talk bad about this. Player, NO i want you
to hate The warriors because that's. Good like you know
you're going to. Road you've been in plenty games where y'all,
quiet shut them up and went.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Home and it was, like, yeah that's, why that's WHY i.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Got a problem with the NEW cba as far as parody,
man because you're breaking up these, teams these dynasties who be,
together and these great, teams and obviously they are favorites
to win year and if you got a great, team
that are favorites to win year in year. Out but
it was fun to root against trying to knock these teams,
Off like you want to knock off The, celtics you
(13:55):
want to knock off The, warriors who you think is
the favorite every. Year these different teams like The caves
that everybody in The east was, trying was hunting to
knock off The caves that that brought drama and a team.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
When it's a hidden admiration because you going camp saying
we gotta be like these, guys, yes.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah NOW i was like all, right AND i was Like,
oh they're Gonna they're only gonna be good for a
couple of, years and they're not like the best for
people saying about. It, okay see now they're they're a
monster for these next three. Years but after that they're
gonna they gonna have to break it. Up somebody don't have.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
To, case, somebody somebody got. TO i don't like. THAT
i don't like. It get, Better that's ALL i. Said get, better,
bro you know WHAT i? Mean all?
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Right moving?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Along John stockton man one of the tough, guys you
know What i'm. Saying hall Of, famer ten time all,
starting nine time, assists, champ eleven Time ALL, nba five
Time all defense, man and you, know a member of
the fiftieth and seventy Fifth anniversary. Team stockton also has
two gold medals From Dream team one and. Two also
has fifteen, thy eight hundred and six assists and still
(14:55):
leads the league all, time and he is still approximately three,
thousand three hundred.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Assists ahead Of Chris. Paul his.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Stats, yea if you go look at his. Stats, obviously
he didn't miss any, games so he was consistent with,
it showing up at night and night. Out but if
you look at his. Stats he up there with like
he got some of them records That jay Like Jay,
rice like you're chasing, second nobody's.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Kicking he's almost on Some World Chamberlain guard, stuff you
know WHAT i. Mean because LIKE i got a chance
to Watch starckton in the, NINETIES i just Hated. UTAH
i literally that was the last. Time that's the last.
TEAM i literally felt like anger TOWARDS i haven't hated
a team and AND i don't feel that way about
The jazz now at this. Age but like those teams
(15:44):
they were so good man him And, carmelone like they
had that you, know pick and roll, going you know
WHAT i. Mean and it really was like you, Know Jerry,
sloan they had the same coach for a long, time
you know WHAT i. Mean like those dudes were literally
had it, going and they never missed game. GAMES i
think that's the most underrated stat is like how consistent they.
(16:06):
Were and they got to the finals twice and they
should have won, one you, know they fumbled.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
It but you, Know John stockton was really good.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Man AND i think every time most people talk About
John stockton because they'd be, like you, know these the
modern day players are, like, Oh stocking can't do no with.
Me but every time you hear about his peers talking
about him like, yo he was, strong, pasty like he
wasn't no joke and he wasn't a night. Off he
gonna get, tired you know WHAT i, mean he gonna
get physical and he only six to.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
One get, nasty nasty. Competitor he said his borderline. Dirty,
yeah when it came to some of the stuff he
do on the, floor and he's one of his twiners
when we get to my goat top, five it's one
of those tweeners where he probably made most of his
did most of his damage in the, nineties but he
didn't lead the league and assist two years in the,
(16:55):
eighties think eighty eighty, Nine so it's up for. Debate
like he, was he's a he's a late bloomer in the.
Eighties when we talked about some of these other, names
he's a, youngster BUT i mean just another guy who's
synonymous with an organization AND i and that's still. Special
like he's a he's A. Utah him And Utah jazz
go hand in. Hand and that as that to me
(17:16):
to ask your legs when you could play in one
one spot for your entire. Career, basically even though you
don't you don't win a, championship you get to the
finals and you have memorable moments in the. Playoffs you're
a juggernaut in the regular. Season every. Year stocktor led that,
lead that, charge and he was a nasty, defender quick
shoot it good. Enough h could see the. Floor seeing
(17:37):
the floor and making those passes at that at that
height is, underrated obviously. Magic he maybe the best passer
of all, time but he had the height to see
over the, defense so he kind of had a superpower
when you got when you got guys Like isaiah And
John stockton who passed at six foot six point, one
(17:58):
having to look through the, trees find different angles to
get the ball to where they wanted to go. To
that's a skill that's underrated and a lot of people don't, Realize.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah you GOTTA i Got John Stockins All First, Team
All pride because you know me like he. Wasn't he
probably had Little man syndrome, Too but at the end
of the, Day napoleon, complex whatever you want to call,
it he just had.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Pride. Dog he was not about to let you just
go go crazy on.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
You he remind, me And Chris paul reminds me a
lot Of Chris, paul that little man. Syndrome WHEN i
step on that, Floor i'm. Nasty i'm trying to Do
i'm doing anything to, win and the ultimate goal is to.
Win like they there's little tricks of the trade to get.
Win like you see some of the antics that THAT.
Cp we're doing games like grabbing the, ball knocking out of,
(18:50):
bounds running time off the, clock little tricks to win
the game that that most of your AVERAGE nba fan don't.
Realize but when you're playing against, something it annoys you
and you. Realize John stock had those same tricks of the. Trade,
yeah And i'm SURE i wouldn't be surprised to see
if he learned a lot from him and watched him growing.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Up, Yeah i'm pretty, sure all.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Right next Person compton in the House Dennis, JOHNSON Minguscrat
hall Of, famer five Time All, star three Time Champion FINALS,
mvp nine Time All. Defense johnson was one of the
best two league, guards two way, guards and floor generals
of the. Decade his peak years feature two top TEN mvp,
finishes two top SIX mvp finishes and a nine year
(19:30):
stretch of being on The All Defensive first and second. Team,
now you, know we had our previous, Guest Michael cooper
on and he said how Influential Dennis johnson was to
his career about, seeing you know what it takes to
get to THE. NBA i can play defense and make
it to.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
THE, nba you know WHAT i?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Mean and when you really think About Dennis johnson's impact
on The Boston, celtics to see how SuperSonics a lot
of guys, aren't you. Know obviously we Mentioned, stock you
know his steals. Mark but that's Why Dennis johnson was
a champ. Man he knew his role and he was,
very very good on both ends of the.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Floor, yeah you need somebody when you when you Got
larry And magic and those Two lakers And boston teams
going back for you gotta have a point guard that
can go toe to toe With. Magic obviously he Wasn't,
magic but that was that was his. Assignment you need
somebody to to to not get completely destroyed of that.
Matchup and And dennis was up for the challenge like
he's a he's a. Champion he was a. Winner moved
(20:32):
around and living on different, teams but, was LIKE i,
said he, was he was An All star before and
before he got To, boston, right so he, UH i
mean he was who he wasn't and got a little bit,
older rolled the mins a little bit when he got To,
boston but it led to winning and championships and playing
at the highest. Level, so, uh guy's got a lot
of respect For Dennis johnson or what he did of his,
(20:53):
career who played in that era and washed them and
nine nine Time All defensive.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Selections, yeah you like you Like Revis, island you know
WHAT i, Mean like it's not a lot of stuff happening,
man especially a guard in that. Era so they was
playing physical and you, know just just handling their. Business
it's gonna be interesting when we do our five, though
BECAUSE i feel like a lot of it's gonna be
leaned on, winning you know WHAT i, Mean like a
(21:20):
lot of guys made a lot of sacrifice and SAY
i was going, THERE i, Know i'm Just i'm just Saying.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I'm going who was the? Best WHO i think was the? Best?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Okay, okay Mo chieks Mo Chieks hall Of, famer four
Time All, star five Time All Defensive champion in eighty
three with.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
The philadelphia seventy six. Ers cheeks was another one of
the league's best two wayguards to this. Era from eighty
three to eighty, Eight cheeks.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Had a stretch of Five top ten Defensive player of
The year finishes and four straight defensive first. Teams cheeks
was a floor leader of the Legendary Most malone's Infamous
Fox Fox Fox. Team Mo cheeks obviously, coaching you, know
in THE, nba hell of a, player great point, guard floor. General,
(22:03):
again defense was, key you know WHAT i, Mean like
we're going from offense to. Defense it seems like a
lot of guys now we're talking about our great, defenders
you know WHAT i, mean even though they added their their,
load but they played maybe, third, second, third or fourth
option on those those those teams that they were playing
on because you, know he Had doctor J he had most,
(22:23):
alone you, know like guys are, stacked you know WHAT i,
Mean and he did the best in his.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Role. Man but just being on that defensive team and
playing a huge role as a, champion you gotta reward.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
It it was less teams back, then so the teams
were a little bit had more, talent especially the top
teams were kind of. Stacked you, had like you, said
you Had moses And DOCTOR j on the same team
And More cheeks was that point guard running that? SHOW i,
was like you said it on both sides of the,
ball and he was. Efficient just looking at his, numbers
he was always add or over fifty percent from the,
(22:58):
floor which is tough or small on guard like you.
Was so, yeah he did it with, efficiency consistency on
both sides of the. Ball was just a, solid solid point.
Guard and being In philly for the time THAT i,
DID i heard and saw a lot Of More cheeks stuff.
Around OH i.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Can, imagine, MAN i think that's like the Good. Again
you talk about.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Legacy when you think about legacy and you, know for
current players like yourself to go play at you, know
for The philadelphia seventy six ers, franchise and then they
compare you to these. Guys, okay, Yeah, seth you're a good,
shooter but could.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
You defend like More.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Cheeks you, know it's like random people just like, you like,
BROTHER i could, defend but you, know like what More
chicks used to. Do and now you get somebody reminded Like,
Yo mo chicks used to do, this and it's, like oh,
okay because you're only meeting them as a.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Coach so when you see them, now mos, on, HEY
i heard you was really like.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That and he might get it off a little, bit
but you, know that's that's what people remember when how
you played, on you, know and the effort you put, in,
man and you know he's. Bad the next guy in
these all these guys were respected by.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Defenders.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Man you, Know Michael cooper shouted Off City monk scref as.
Well hall Of, famer five Time All, star five Time All,
defensive two Time Defensive player of The. Year behind his two,
wins he also had two other top three finishers For
Defensive player of The.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Year Monk creef is.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Considered by many to be one of the best defensive
guards the league has ever. Seen he's only sixty.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
FOUR i think he's like he was one of those,
combos like really a shooting, guard but his size a little,
small so he kind of couldn't have been that point
guard most, too so he was like that one of
those the first combo type.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Guards he's the guy you slide on magic just because
they playing The. Lakers you know, WHAT i, mean BUT
i definitely could see him playing another position and being
used in different. Ways Thus Williams williams william Another Seattle,
supersonic played Alongside Dennis. Johnson two Time All, star two
Time ALL, NBA nba. Champion he was a six two
(24:57):
scoring guard at his position that wasn't a norm at
the point he had nine four hundred, points was good
for the fourth MOST bot point guard during that. Decade
his peak year was eighty two eighty, three when he
averaged twenty three point four six point nine, assists three
point one, rebounds and two point two steals and finished
top five IN mvp.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
VOTING i mentioned top five.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Voting when people get those, nods it's almost like A grammy, nomination, Right, Like,
yo you you had an exceptional year enough to finish
in top. Five how do you feel about players that
are in the, Conversation.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
It's like An ALL nba selection to, Me like you
had a great. Year you look at some of these
years and the BEST i think sometimes the best way
to remember a year or out of season win was
look at some of THE mvp, Voting like, one most
of the time your team had a good, year you
got it that's a big criteria for guys to vote YOU.
(25:55):
Mvp you had to have a winning, season be at
the top of the, standings and then you Performed like,
obviously it's a lot of times in. There you look
at those lists where guys you knew they would never
win AN mvp but had to get a couple of
votes and the name had to be. Remembered in that,
sense it's only a handful of guys who really win
the m V p every year in the year. Out and,
(26:18):
uh LIKE i, said it's a good way to go
back if you want to think remember a, season, think,
oh who's hooping this? Year just looking look at the
top seven eight names on THE mvp voting list and
that'll tell you all you need to. Know But Gus
williams DOING i, mean the nickname The wizard speaks for. Herself, yeah,
right that's like he he had the. Handles he was
(26:39):
like a scoring. Threat first had the. Handles just electric
guard who who was a bucket and he's he early
in the decade was what he was hooping the. Most
so the late seventies early, eighties one of those guys
kind of Before magic and and all those Guys isaac
(27:00):
and all those guys started taking.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Over, YEAH i, mean he's definitely one of those guys
that He's he's the guy That Magic johnson's. Watching he's
the guy That Isaiah thomas is watching from their their
their childhood living room saying, Yeah, gus get, them you
know WHAT i, mean and taking a piece of, that
you know WHAT i. Mean and you kind of gotta
acknowledge him for what he.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Did.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Man and you know a lot of people talk about you,
KNOW i spent some time In. Seattle people talk About
Gus williams all the, time like.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Him and him and the next, Guy Norm. Nixon, yeah
they're kind Of this is when THE. Nba be, honest
THE nba was kind of, dying like it. Wasn't it
wasn't not a lot of eyes on. It so that's
why you Had magic and them guys come in and
and kind of save the, league bringing that excitement back
(27:48):
and tell us about this next.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Guy, yeah, Man Norman, nixon, dude two Time All, star
two time. CHAMPION a lot of people forget the Reason
magic was listed as a shooting guard the first season
is Because Norm nixon was the starting point, guard you
know WHAT i.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Mean they got a little. Interesting they end up shipping
him out to the to The. Clippers what's the?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Doc what's the? Doc When norm was was hating On
magic winning, Time norm looking crazy in, THAT.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I, mean that's what it, was you know WHAT i,
mean because you know he was he was kind of
Like i'm the vet trying to throw his weight, around
which rightfully, so, man he was, cold, bro but you,
know it just kind of like. Shifted he probably would
have won more championships playing with The. Lakers But magic, like, hey,
bro you're not about to just be telling me what
to do every every now and. Then, MAN i had
(28:35):
this one substitute, teacher Mister, pratt and It's Kyler brat's,
UNCLE i, actually and he he showed us so much
footage On Rod strickland And Norm, nixon and he Despises Magic,
johnson like despises Because.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Norm nixon was his man on The lakers and he
got shipped to The, clippers and he was, like.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Man norm was supposed to have a way better, career,
Man like if he would have did this and, that
like he went off against The. Lakers he always used
to make us watch these. Tapes SO i got a
chance to See Norman nixon and how he. Played, man
his game was. Smooth you, know he ain't had you know,
again not that crazy, tall but just game like, butter
you know WHAT i. Mean he had Another Gus williams
(29:19):
type where they you, know point guard that liked to
shoot it a, lot but they also could find.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Guys and he was a coaches player.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
TOO i think that's another thing that when you think
about guys doing their own thing The Magic, era a
lot of them dudes took on their own personalities and
became coaches on the. Floor norm was kind of, like,
hey what offense we running and tempo is important and you,
know get it To, cap get it to these guys
and let's. Run let's do it this, way you, Know
(29:47):
and LIKE i, said they end up winning chip and
he was An All star and playing for The lakers
was probably like the highlight of his career man because
he was benefiting the most from. It his son actually
played him in winning, time which is kind of. Funny so,
YEAH i didn't even know, that. Yep Man Derek, Harper, Harper,
Harper Deren, Harper, OKAY i, Know i'm pretty sure you
(30:09):
got Some Derek harper Story Derek.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Harper Derek, harper actually it's.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Hilario i'm gonna read off his stats, first but THEN
i gotta tell a story about me And Derek.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Harper Bro.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So Deck harper was a two Time All defensive player
with three top Eight Defensive player of The year finishes
in his sixteen year. Career his peak, years where eighty
six to ninety, three were probably comparable To Drew holiday
type player. Today from a, perspective every TIME i bought
a pack of, CARDS i would get It Derek harper.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Card it never. Failed.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Bro it's a few of those guys who every TIME
i had like.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Seven Derek harper.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Cards, BRO i used to get mad at one point
BECAUSE i was just like man Like Derrick Harper. COLE
i Remember Derck harper went to The knicks, too Like.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Antonio mcdiicce was my guy in the. NIGHT i was
always Getting antonio mcdice cards for some. Reason but, anyway but, yeah,
nah tell us a tell about you, Know Derek harper
was all. Right so he was the color guy In.
Dallas he still does games, now but WHEN i was,
there he was a full time color guy and went
on the row and he was and he used to
JUST i, mean he's the old school hard no vet
(31:13):
like he used to just chop him up with him
before after. Games and supposedly he wanted the reasons they
put in a hand. Check SO i talked to, him
talked about like his. Defense he, said my dad said
he had the, strongest like four arms in, hand so
like he put that hand on your hip and guarding.
You he would just guide point guards around the floor
like they. Could you couldn't beat, Him you couldn't really
(31:34):
move like he would put that hand on your hip
and just lock you. Down so like he's one of
the best most physical defensive point guards definitely in the
eighties and the. Nineties and just his his just looking
at his jersey up there on the rafters In. Dallas
had TO i had to learn some stuff about him
because he that's one of those.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Dudes that's really interesting too when you talk about hand, checking, Right,
yeah and then you also think about this, era a
lot of guards back. Down they backed down a lot of,
Players so think about the defenders that's getting back down
like that's magic, thing like magical back you down eighty
four feet if he, could you know WHAT i.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Mean but just being. Strong you, know we hear the
stories about The Joe. Dumars we.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Hear you, know most of these defensive guys literally move their,
feet hand, checking hand on your. Hip Derek harper guarding,
you you know WHAT i, mean making sure turning you
left or, right pushing you to the big that's effective
man him and him and A Rinaldo blackman man that
That maths team bro like they was getting aftered.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
For, real Like Ronaldo blackman was around.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Too all Those cubans Like dalla's treat their former players
man to be that was.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
A cuban that Was that was A Mark cuban thing
his guys when he bought the team and stuff, right
he had them, around taking helping them be a part
of the organization and just really just rehashing that history
and keeping it. Alive And dallas like they do have
a history of some hoopers out.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
THERE i mean that gott to make you feel good
as an active, player like when you see, it, like,
hey this MIGHT i might have a job later on
down the, line you know WHAT i.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Mean i've seen A Darryl.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
ARMSTRONG i, said a bunch of, guys you know WHAT i,
mean go and either you get a front off his
gig OR i See Popaya jones is over there, now
you know WHAT i, Mean like he take care of the.
Players but it's just always, good, man because it almost
feels like a high school feel where you're coming back
and he, say, hey, self tell him about how when you,
play you know WHAT i, Mean and it's not might be,
yeah it's not even like an annoying thing because it's
(33:34):
like you being a younger. Player but you, see Like
Derek harper is, interrapters he's doing color, commentary and he
has valuable insight On, hey you know how to guard
this person he watching just like. Y'all he might be,
still he might it might have his blood. Boiling he's
seeing a certain player go. Off he, like, MAN i
could have stopped, him you know WHAT i. Mean SO
(33:55):
i think that's.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Cool. Man we definitely got to find a way to
Get Derek harper on your band because that that would definitely.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Be got some. Stories AND.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I could only imagine, that you know WHAT i, mean
BECAUSE i want to know how he got his wrist so. Strong,
mean that's a whole nother, thing, man BECAUSE i remember,
THAT i, MEAN i never play in a handchecking.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Era but you had to slap some hands, off you
know WHAT i. Mean and if his hand not, movie you.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Couldn't get it. Off you couldn't get it. Off you would,
cook get off the, ball do whatever you. Want Michael Ray.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Richardson always hear About Michael Ray. RICHARDSON i really didn't
get to watch a lot of. Him we's four Time All,
stars three times Still, champ two Time All. Defensive richardson could, score,
distribute and defend a true point guards point guard if you.
Will richardson was also top seven Defensive player of The
year finished to go with this all defensive. Selections you,
(34:45):
Know Michael Ray, richardson like, again these last guards that
we talked, about all defensive, Guys pride wanted to lock somebody.
Down he gonna you, know they gonna score the solid.
Fifteen they're gonna score the solid twenty. One it might
not be as consistent as the guys we mentioned, earlier
but their impact on the defense is the reason why
(35:05):
they won a lot of, games the reason why they won,
championships the reason why they're in these discussions and we're
talking about them. Today, man and you know you got
you gotta pay respect you know WHAT i mean to
these type of, Players you know WHAT i, mean especially
four Time All, STAR i really be thinking about.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
It, obviously it's kind of tough.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
To compare to The, kds The, lebrons the guys that
have been in the league so long that are Nineteen
All stars and Twenty All. Stars but if you know
how hard it is to make The All star, team for,
one we got a lot of one Time All. Stars
so if you made it four, times you.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Legit, yeah that puts you in rare. Air, yeah, yeah you're.
Special But, michael BUT i mean a we talk about this,
guy he's. Soon he was a super, athlete dynamic on
both ends of the. Floor you said it all about his,
defense but he. Wasn't he wasn't like that efficient and
that great. Offensively he couldn't shoot it that, well which
(36:01):
obviously hurt him in today's.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Era that's What i'm. Saying the analytics wasn't.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
There it was like it wasn't. There he would be
a lot more, scrutinized and he'll be he'd have some
problems in. Today the game.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Would be in a bad. Shape i'm not saying that
it is now because we're in a discussion. Era, right
it's age of.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Information we have access to everything and fans have a
louder voice than they. Should but think about a guy
going like like job right now is not shooting the
ball extremely. Well irish may have had a struggling shooting,
Night Michael jordan may his is kind of. Rare but,
like think About Michael Ray richardson going six for. Fifteen,
(36:45):
yeah but it's not just a talent. Thing i'm not
just saying it's just town skills to shoot.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Them some.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Beill it's part of. It his rules and the way
the game was. Played back, then we just talked about
handschecking and how physical a guy Like Derek harper could
be and all these we're talking about all these defensive
guards because they could be they could be, physical and
they could use their skills on the defensive end to
to hold down the opposing of guards who were good
(37:12):
off like that was a that was a major skill
where you're a, physical athletic. Guard back, then you had
an advantage because you could use all. That today you
can't really don't matter who you, are you can't really
stop a guy one on one because you can't do too.
Much you can't be too. Physical guys are smart drawing
fouls and all. That there wasn't the case back, Then
so that's probably what that's that's, OBVIOUSLY i, mean guys
(37:34):
are more skilled in today's, era but it's part that
inefficiency was due to the rules and and a lot
of that has changed because they made them more.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Watchable, Yeah i'm gonna shout out these two honorable.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Mention tiny retired in eighty, four still playing at a high,
level has two top TEN mvv finishes during this, decade
And Fat lever two Time All, star three top Ten
Defensive player to The year, finishes two top TEN mvp
finishes as, Well so you know how much you gotta
be hooping to be top two IN mvp talks and
(38:10):
then also three top Ten Defensive player of The year,
mentions you know WHAT i, Mean so that he really
was locking, Up he really was hooping to be considered ALMOST,
mvp you know WHAT i. Mean he probably lost to
some super superstars that were just really they end up
probably going to win it, all you know WHAT i
mean those. Years but, Man Fat leaver is another one
man had one of the coolest. Names he's also another.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
GUY i allway used to get his trading.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
CARD i had The Denver Nuggets Fat lever card all the, time,
Man but he also had like a cool.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Name.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
MAN i always hear About Fat lever and how good he.
Was All, right we're gonna take a quick, break and
when we come, back we're going to discuss our top.
Five this should get, interesting, man because doc he says
he's not going to defensive. Minded he's sticking to the.
Criteria i'm going to individual. Base, HEY i can't wait
(39:01):
to hear. It all, right we're back. Dot let us hear, it.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Man all, right let's get.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
It let's get.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
IT i got my top five go point guards of the.
Eighties number, FIVE i got my Guy Derek harper just
hearing being in my. House and but even BEFORE i
got The, DALLAS i heard About Derek harper from my
pops playing against. Him he didn't him and his point
guards didn't enjoy. It So Derek HARPER i got number,
five number, FOUR i Got Mo, Cheeks Mo, cheeks number,
(39:47):
four number, Three Dennis, johnson number Two isaiah and number
One Magic. JOHNSON i Left john stocked it out because
he's a nineties got to, me so don't kill.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Me, Nah you're, Good you? Good all?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Right, Uh i'm going to go at, Five Gus. Williams at,
Four i'm going to go With Mo. Cheeks at, Three
i'm gonna go With Norm, nixon and at Two Isaiah,
(40:28):
thomas and at One Magic.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Johnson you're a real la, Guy Norman nexus nicking in
the top.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Five, hey two, times two time Champ.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
California. LOVE i had to give.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
HIM i had to give him some. Love you, Know
magic got him shipped up out of. There but you
know he was, hooping so you, know.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Everybody else was defensive.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
MINDED i wanted, to you, know shout that out a little.
Bit but you, know for the point, guards we want
to have some. Assists we have a little. Scoring were
more we leaning towards the offense more than the. DEFENSE i,
mean we can talk about the greatest defensive point guards
of the eighties next. Time that could be another topic
and then maybe they can solidify their crown because it
(41:10):
gets a little bit more into. Detail but for this one,
man you, know the, criteria it's a.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
LOT i do want to guest on him for one
of these eighties episodes talking about the defense because they
need to they need to state that. Case for the
physicality and how how it was harder to score back
then maybe we get somebody on here for.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
That MAYBE i.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
CAN i can see physicality being there just because a
lot of stuff was, riding like you know WHAT i,
Mean like guys get like throwing elbow, shivers, joints you
know WHAT i, mean to cross the, paint and.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
It was always too bigs and like if you're a quick,
guard you can maybe get by your, man but then
you had to meet, two, yeah two physical forwards or
centers in the paint just to. Finish, yeah so a
lot of times you would get in, there you would
off it off to a big who is spacing out
the fifteen feet or under the basket or. Whatever it
was just a Different the game was played completely. DIFFERENT
(42:07):
i can't also.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Think about the competition within the, competition you're playing against,
somebody but you're also playing against somebody for your.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Spot. Yeah oh, YEAH i, said, yeah the league was,
smaller more competition for your.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Spot, YEAH i mean.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
THAT i think that that's that's good for business, sometimes,
man you, know because now you're playing and we're kind
of getting back there because it's so many guys are it's.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
A whole thing of. Players bro like a whole pool
of players that just don't want out or you're seeing
a bunch of young guys do they three and.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Out it's a lot of. Talent it's a lot of.
Talent and that's what they're. TALKING i think that's why
expansion is coming. Eventually, yeah because you got you think
some of your names who are in the, league or
some of these names who are in the league but
aren't in the rotation not getting, minutes like, yeah we
needed two more teams.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
EIGHT i, mean it gets really, interesting, man BECAUSE i
hate to think consider a guy being bad just because
he's not. Playable but then also, again you know they
talk about it all the time on some specialist stuff
like we need so many specialists in the. Game we
need you know WHAT i, mean like to the point
of like everybody the game need a reset, somehow some.
(43:17):
Way AND i think that starts with just keeping a
lot of veterans in the league and kind of just
building up like.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
The back of the next not even if guy's a bad,
thing like like it's a you're talking about. Specialists the
best players are so ball dominant and you got to
fit people around, them so even though this player might
might be. Better this player might play better With luca
or you know What i'm. Saying or this player might
be playing for our system better and we can mold
him because he got the athleticism and the, tools but
(43:46):
he's not as good as this. Guy so we're gonna
take the other guy who we can mold into play
in our system the way we want to. Play it's
legs to this. Man's so it's like a guy Who
russ who wasn't signed to start to start the. Year you,
know he's one of the top four hundred players in the,
world stizzy, easy and it's not even where he just
can't find a spot for. Him because you also.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Gotta look at. Fit How russ needs the. Ball what
Can russ do with other? Players Can russ? Support is
he gonna shrink the?
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Floor is he gonna do?
Speaker 4 (44:18):
This you know WHAT i?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Mean, Like, oh we don't need that for our, team
you know WHAT i. Mean like that's what the conversations
start getting. To it's not nothing Against, russ it's does he?
Fit and it's and it kind of sucks because it's, like,
well make we can make him, fit but it's not
really it don't work like. That, yeah it don't work
like that at. All all, right we're gonna take another,
break and when we come, back we're gonna do our favorite.
(44:38):
Topic born in The Wrong, era all, Right, Doc i'm
gonna kick it. Off born in The Wrong.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
ERA i got my.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Player i'm gonna, Say, MAN i got a role With Magic,
Johnson Magic, johnson big point. GUARD i don't know if
it would have worked in his favor as far as like,
dominating you know WHAT i, mean because he doesn't score.
Enough he would have to be a little bit more.
Selfish BUT i think that he would be in the
(45:20):
conversation as one of the best players in the. Game
he'd be super effective and maybe you, know obviously with
the floor of the game and how the game, is
he would change up his game a little bit.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
More see he made the adjustment to throw the throw the.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Skyhook SO i think he would be a better three point.
SHOOTER i think he probably would ad the mid range,
game and he probably would be more, athletic and he
probably be dunking on a couple of. Cats, man he
ain't dunk too. Much he used to like to to
dim it. Off but put him on a team you,
know if we had to monitor his his, trajectory put
him surround him around guys.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
That like to run and that to get. Open the
guys would love playing with.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Magic that's an easy, car easy. Call i'm going With Sidney,
moncrief born in the wrong. Area just he's a physical
good like one of those tweeters which you see a
lot of, today not really kind of positionless at that
one two and remind me a lot of That Drew holiday.
Type mold can guard great defensive on on the defensive,
(46:19):
end but also silid on the office e Vent he
can shoot the mid rainge, whatever the a three point.
Shooter but LIKE i, SAID i mean probably could have
added that if he really wanted to shot the mill. Range.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Fine.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Uh physical got to the rim a. Lot so he's
in that That Marcus, Smart Drew holliday just. Combo physical
can play the one in the two whatever you.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Need, YEAH i MEAN i like that. CHOICE i like that.
Choice all, right, man this has been a great. Convo,
man some good, bump you know WHAT i.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Mean, like we gotta we gotta find some eighties guys,
Man Scott, rochell help us, out you, know lander some guys.
Man but besides, That, man this is. AGAIN i can't
wait to talk about the next. One, Man, dot where
can they find?
Speaker 1 (47:06):
You That's Doc. Curry That's Doc curry everywhere.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
All, right At, trey at.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Travn and we also have a New instagram page at
The Goat, pod the G O T e P O.
D make sure you, Follow send us some, dms send us.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Some suggestions and who should we who should we have
on the? Show AND i think that's, It, Dot that's, it,
Man we're out of.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Here.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
Go this has been A Unanimous media.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Original goat was produced BY I Write podcasts And Unanimous.
Media it was hosted By, Me Trevon edwards And Steph.
Purry executive produced By Stephen curry And Eric. Kate co
executive Producer Collini Maria. Cutting the executive producers At iHeart
podcasts Are Sewn titone And Jason. English this series was
produced By Derek jennings And Peter, Kutcher co Producer Kurt.
(48:07):
Read original music By Jesse. Woodard special thanks To Stephen
curry And Will. Pearson got is the production Of Unanimous
media And iHeart. Podcasts for more podcasts From, iHeartRadio visit
The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Podcasts
That's why I got a problem with the new CBA
as far as parody man, because you're breaking up these teams,
these dynasties who be together, and these great teams, and
obviously they are favorites to win year and if you
got a great team, they're favorites to win year in
year out. But it was fun to root against trying
to knock these teams off, Like you want to knock
off the Celtics, you want to knock off the Warriors,
(00:22):
who you think is the favorite every year. These different
teams like the Calves that everybody in the East was trying,
was hunting to knock off the Calves. That that that
brought drama and a team.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hidden admiration because you going camp saying we gotta be
like these guys, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Now I was like all right, and I was like, oh,
they're gon They're only gonna be good for a couple
of years and they're not like the best people saying
about it. Okay, see now like they're they're a monster
for these next three years, but after that they're gonna
they gonna have to break it up somebody.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
To case somebody, somebody got to I don't like that
I don't like it. They get better, That's all I said.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Get better.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Bro.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Welcome back to another episode of Greatest of their era.
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Dot Trade? What's up? What's up? Another episode? Man, let's
get out to what.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Man, we've been putting out some bangers. Man. I can't
I can't front. I can't front.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, we deep diving, many reminiscing talking about some some
hoopers out here.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Man, that's a couple of people attacked me in the
in the comments in the DMS.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's great what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You know, Harden shouldn't have been on the point. Guardless,
he didn't really run the offense as much. You know,
they felt I should have pushed back a little bit
on Steph being one of the you know, playmakers, and I.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Just was like, I can't. Can't debate with somebody who's
on the team that actually sees the.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Inner makings of it in a way that I'm not
viewing it, you know what I mean. I can see
it from a certain perspective because I get it, but
he's still a huge part of the initiation of the offense.
That's why I'm like, I don't understand that logic of
going up against it.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So yeah, that's what that's what we debate. That's the argument, like, yeah,
you've seen you just because people can do multiple things
don't mean they're not elite at this one area that
they just don't show as often. So it's part of
the argument, man. But today we got what's the topic
for today.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Man, So we're going to blast from the past. We're
going to the eighties man, point Guard's greatest point Guards
of the eighties, Man, And it's some classic you know,
way before your time, a little bit my time, I
called the tail end of it. But man, some names,
some familiar names, and some legends that you've crossed paths,
and uh, you know, this should be a good one, man,
especially the credentials, the resumes. Obviously we've had point Guard
(02:42):
episodes before, but this is where the change of the
guard happens. When you're thinking about the actual big guard.
Magic Johnson enters the you know, the playing field. You
got Isaiah Thomas bringing a different style. John Stockton, you
know what I mean, where guys are looking at somebody
trying to you know, oh, he might not do anything
(03:02):
in John Stockton. You hear all the stories about how
good he is and then you know, the list goes on,
so we're gonna jump right into it.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, and I mentioned Magic Johnson, you know, Hall of Famer,
twelve time All Star, ten time All NBA, three time MVP,
three time Finals MVP, five time champion, member of the
NBA's fiftieth and seventy five Anniversary teams.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
He's won at every level. He's still winning.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You know, I got my Dodger cap on. I'm a
Yankees fan, but he's just won a title with the Dodgers.
Magic Johnson, man winter in life, but also six' nine point.
Guard you, Know kareem goes down in that finals his rookie,
year he plays, center ends up winning a title as a,
rookie AND i think sometimes this legacy kind of gets
not brushed. Over he's more of the old head, goat
(03:47):
you know WHAT i. Mean we talk to a lot
of people and they, say, yeah, yeah because you, know
LIKE i feel like everybody that's born in the, nineties late,
EIGHTIES i mean mid, eighties that watched in the Nineties,
MJ's they got anybody that's born in mid, seventies late,
Seventies Magic johnson's the greatest thing Ever he'll never be,
overtop you, Know kobe would never pass him as the Greatest. Laker,
(04:10):
like it's just certain things that Just magic just did,
that like they swear by and it was just winning
titles so consecutively even though he always had, squads.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Right AND i think part of that is part of the.
Culture like he he him And Larry bird saved THE
nba saved, Literally so it's like that part of that
goes into his. Legacy like Obviously magic is magic on the.
Floor he's the ultimate leader that shows ran the show
for their Showtime lakers kind, OF i think he laid
the foundation for That laker franchise or of what it is,
(04:40):
Now like you don't we need to talk about that
because you have certain players that are synonymous with an
organization and laid the foundation for like a historical not
only basketball, franchise but a sports franchise around the. Globe
like obviously you Got kobe who In shaq who puts it,
Along But magic laid the foundation and made it what it,
(05:01):
is and you got players LIKE i mean you think
about staff with The, Warriors lady foundation for what That
warriors franchise. Is you Got yankees, guys The cowboys, guys
you got the Eight men's The Michael, Irvins Emms smith's
laid that. Foundation magic is in that in that round
as far as being a legend on the, floor but
also just growing the game and, growing growing the league
(05:24):
into what it.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Is COLOR tv, Dynasties that's WHAT i call, it you
know WHAT i, mean because like when you think about The, celtics,
yeah The lawyer's, there eight team, League but when you
think About, dynasty Original, dynasty there's no weed these box
without The, lakers you know WHAT i. Mean like when
you get those type of, things you think about just
an ultimate. Winner obviously he, changing you, know his coaches were,
(05:46):
changed you know WHAT i, Mean Wes paul To, riley
they start, running they become you, know they they basically
boost the entertainment value of THE. Nba and now you
Got Larry birdacross who doesn't play the same. Position there's
almost near in. Height they had the rivalry since college a.
(06:07):
Storybook you, know the league was just kind of getting
off of the drug. Rhythm you, know players in. There you,
know they had The comeback of The Year award for
the drug players that went through rehabilitation and, played And
magic in them was just so clean cut endorsement. Wise you,
know when you think about everything That magic's, done.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Especially for the point guard, POSITION.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I think it didn't make it a disadvantage for shorter
guys like, us BUT i think that it just showed
how talented players, are you know WHAT i, mean like
the evolution of the. Game like If magic had the
wrong coach and made him post, up we never get
That Magic.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Johnson that's WHAT i was about to. SAY i Think
magic like to dive into his game on the. Floor
he could have been whatever he wanted to, be, right
he could have been a bigger have been that that
like you said that three through five man on the
on the. Floor but he had the skills to play point.
Guard so they needed that point guard position when he
first got to The lakers because they obviously Had kareem
and Really hall of famers at every heavy. Position, yeah
(07:07):
and he came in and he was running the show
like he thought the. Game it was. Levels like he,
said he could have gone out there and scored thirty
at night if he wanted. To he could. HAVE i,
mean obviously was he was spreading the spreading the ball,
around getting guys that touches and making everybody happy on
his team full of all, stars like some say he's
like he had stacked, Teams but that's a gift and a.
(07:27):
Curse you got that much, talent you got to make everybody,
happy you got to, lead the lead the, show and
you got to sacrifice some of your scoring maybe just
to make everybody. Happy and he did it with, grace
he did it with flair and. Flash and he's another
one of those guys who always talk about as far
as obviously you want his main goals to go out
there and win and play. Well but when he steps
on that, floor he trying to put on the. Show
(07:48):
he trying to, entertain and that's still that's still who
he is to today off the, floor like he's a
he's an entertainer at, heart AND i mean That's magic Is,
magic like the nickname Is conic as, Well AND i.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Mean he managed to get you know, MVPs you know
three three league MVPs as a point guard and then
just constantly. WIN i think the ultimate goal was always.
Winning AND i think that's one of the things that
Separates Magic johnson from a lot of. People this next
player also A hall Of, famer twelve Time All, star
five Time ALL, nba two TIME Nba, champion back to
(08:23):
BACK Nba Champion FINALS, mvp two Time All STAR. Mvp
Isaiah thomas like one of the most underrated you know
WHAT i, Mean like early on WHEN i used to
have my point guard, conversations and you, Know steph had
won his first one and THEN i think he won
his second one out even even when he won his,
THIRD i still was Putting isaiah there.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Just because the style of play he.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Had you, know it's a little tough to kind of
edge it out now Because steph just kept, winning you
know WHAT i mean to that, Point but they were
just a team and really Stopped Michael jordan.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
From eaton in the. Eighties you get What i'm, Saying
like they was really a.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Roadblock so the idea of you, know the infamous game
where HE i don't, know he didn't break his, ankle
but he had a really really bad sprain and he
was hobbling and went crazy on The, lakers you know
WHAT i. Mean, like he's also another guy that Beat,
magic so got you gotta give him, love, man you
know What i'm. Saying but also WHEN i think about
in the future when we get to these twenty, tens
(09:21):
with the twenty twenties and twenty tens and twenty, twenties
and you think.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Of, steph he'd bet, bron you know WHAT i.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Mean so those are the legitimate arguments that you can
bring to those tables when you, say all, right yes
you want, titles but.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Who did you beat when you were playing for the?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Title, yeah you have all these all time, greats all
these goats and their eras like you talk About, MJ's
The Magic's, Dynasty, lakers The, bulls whoever they, are all
these all these teams, stacked and it Was isaiah who
was ahead of The, snake and these they had to
go Through. ISAIAH mj had to go Through isaiah to
(09:57):
crown him as the best player in the. League, SO i,
mean he's the ultimate competitor to, me nasty competitor he,
was LIKE i, said he was ahead of That, snake
of that Nasty detroit Bad boys teams and nobody like to.
Play and he's A i think similar The. Magic he
sacrificed a lot of stats to play that point guard.
Position it was just the the the way the game
(10:20):
was played and the way point guards felt they had
to do it be back in the. Eighties WAS i
GOTTA i gotta. LEAD i. CAN'T i can't leave my
team in. SHOTS i, can't you know What i'm. SAYING
i can't be out there trying to score the majority
time on the. FLOOR i gotta set to run to the.
OFFENSE i gotta gotta Get joe the. BALL i gotta
get these other guys the ball and get them that.
Shots and HE i THINK i said he sacrificed points
to to be that that natural point. Guard AND i
(10:42):
mean he's he's up there to me like HE'S i
don't Think i've said this in the. PAST i don't
think he get him and those pitching teams don't get
that just due for whatever. REASON i, MEAN i think
some personal stuff going on behind the scenes with the
league and obviously.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
How they how they were Enforcers man And.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yea they didn't like the. Image David sterr didn't like the.
Image they didn't want THE nba to turn into, that
WHICH i, MEAN i understand it's a business at the
end of the, day but their competitors don't think they
get they just DOING nba history as far as they're
like the telling that story.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
THE Nba, raiders do you know WHAT i mean when
you really think about, It like that's where the bad
boys image come. From, man they're just kind of embodying,
toughness you know WHAT i. Mean, Like, hey and you,
Know i've seen a quote not too long Ago isaiah
said he watches these, games but it like kind of
makes his stomach hurt because guys are okay with getting
(11:35):
scored thirty, on you know WHAT i. Mean obviously the
offense is a little. Different there's a little bit favoring
the offensive player in this. Era but he just said
he would have sleepless nights if somebody went crazy on
him because he got to get them. Back AND i
think that's the kickoff fire of this era because If magic,
won he was pissed On Larry. Bird If magic, One isaiah's,
(11:58):
Mad he's in the. Gym he's not talking to, no
you know WHAT i, Mean Like Michael. Jordan the list goes.
On when you think about the greats and the competition in,
it and not saying that our era doesn't have, competition
but it's just like you don't see. IT i guess
it's not advertised as much as. RIVALRIES i think we
need to welcome. IT i, mean obviously.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
On the, floor but he took HIS i feel like
he took his his his competition on the. Floor, personally
he took it off the, floor and he wasnt gonna
let it go until until he retired or to this,
day he still holds some of them.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
GRUDGES i think modern DAY nba needs.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Villains, yeah you know WHAT i, Mean, LIKE i get,
it it's a big, business but you need a. Villain
i'm talking about a good, villain not the villain that's.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Just, like all, Right i'm a defensive.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Player who is who's the most similar villain To Isaiah
thomason in today's. Game you obviously got The Dylan, brooks
but not as. Good you gotta have. All you gotta
have A i don't. KNOW i think the only hill
right now Is Kevin. DURANT i, Mean ron was probably
the number one heel and when he went to the,
heat but it wasn't don't be for players like. That,
(13:05):
nah he's with organizations and. Fans but, YEAH i don't.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
THINK i don't think we have.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
ONE i think everybody has a mutual respect for, everybody
which is. Cool even watching the banter on social. Media
it's like fans get up in, arms, like, yo you
can't talk bad about this. Player, NO i want you
to hate The warriors because that's. Good like you know
you're going to. Road you've been in plenty games where y'all,
quiet shut them up and went.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Home and it was, like, yeah that's, why that's WHY i.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Got a problem with the NEW cba as far as parody,
man because you're breaking up these, teams these dynasties who be,
together and these great, teams and obviously they are favorites
to win year and if you got a great, team
that are favorites to win year in year. Out but
it was fun to root against trying to knock these teams,
Off like you want to knock off The, celtics you
(13:55):
want to knock off The, warriors who you think is
the favorite every. Year these different teams like The caves
that everybody in The east was, trying was hunting to
knock off The caves that that brought drama and a team.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
When it's a hidden admiration because you going camp saying
we gotta be like these, guys, yes.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah NOW i was like all, right AND i was Like,
oh they're Gonna they're only gonna be good for a
couple of, years and they're not like the best for
people saying about. It, okay see now they're they're a
monster for these next three. Years but after that they're
gonna they gonna have to break it. Up somebody don't have.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
To, case, somebody somebody got. TO i don't like. THAT
i don't like. It get, Better that's ALL i. Said get, better,
bro you know WHAT i? Mean all?
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Right moving?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Along John stockton man one of the tough, guys you
know What i'm. Saying hall Of, famer ten time all,
starting nine time, assists, champ eleven Time ALL, nba five
Time all defense, man and you, know a member of
the fiftieth and seventy Fifth anniversary. Team stockton also has
two gold medals From Dream team one and. Two also
has fifteen, thy eight hundred and six assists and still
(14:55):
leads the league all, time and he is still approximately three,
thousand three hundred.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Assists ahead Of Chris. Paul his.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Stats, yea if you go look at his. Stats, obviously
he didn't miss any, games so he was consistent with,
it showing up at night and night. Out but if
you look at his. Stats he up there with like
he got some of them records That jay Like Jay,
rice like you're chasing, second nobody's.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Kicking he's almost on Some World Chamberlain guard, stuff you
know WHAT i. Mean because LIKE i got a chance
to Watch starckton in the, NINETIES i just Hated. UTAH
i literally that was the last. Time that's the last.
TEAM i literally felt like anger TOWARDS i haven't hated
a team and AND i don't feel that way about
The jazz now at this. Age but like those teams
(15:44):
they were so good man him And, carmelone like they
had that you, know pick and roll, going you know
WHAT i. Mean and it really was like you, Know Jerry,
sloan they had the same coach for a long, time
you know WHAT i. Mean like those dudes were literally
had it, going and they never missed game. GAMES i
think that's the most underrated stat is like how consistent they.
(16:06):
Were and they got to the finals twice and they
should have won, one you, know they fumbled.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
It but you, Know John stockton was really good.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Man AND i think every time most people talk About
John stockton because they'd be, like you, know these the
modern day players are, like, Oh stocking can't do no with.
Me but every time you hear about his peers talking
about him like, yo he was, strong, pasty like he
wasn't no joke and he wasn't a night. Off he
gonna get, tired you know WHAT i, mean he gonna
get physical and he only six to.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
One get, nasty nasty. Competitor he said his borderline. Dirty,
yeah when it came to some of the stuff he
do on the, floor and he's one of his twiners
when we get to my goat top, five it's one
of those tweeners where he probably made most of his
did most of his damage in the, nineties but he
didn't lead the league and assist two years in the,
(16:55):
eighties think eighty eighty, Nine so it's up for. Debate
like he, was he's a he's a late bloomer in the.
Eighties when we talked about some of these other, names
he's a, youngster BUT i mean just another guy who's
synonymous with an organization AND i and that's still. Special
like he's a he's A. Utah him And Utah jazz
go hand in. Hand and that as that to me
(17:16):
to ask your legs when you could play in one
one spot for your entire. Career, basically even though you
don't you don't win a, championship you get to the
finals and you have memorable moments in the. Playoffs you're
a juggernaut in the regular. Season every. Year stocktor led that,
lead that, charge and he was a nasty, defender quick
shoot it good. Enough h could see the. Floor seeing
(17:37):
the floor and making those passes at that at that
height is, underrated obviously. Magic he maybe the best passer
of all, time but he had the height to see
over the, defense so he kind of had a superpower
when you got when you got guys Like isaiah And
John stockton who passed at six foot six point, one
(17:58):
having to look through the, trees find different angles to
get the ball to where they wanted to go. To
that's a skill that's underrated and a lot of people don't, Realize.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah you GOTTA i Got John Stockins All First, Team
All pride because you know me like he. Wasn't he
probably had Little man syndrome, Too but at the end
of the, Day napoleon, complex whatever you want to call,
it he just had.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Pride. Dog he was not about to let you just
go go crazy on.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
You he remind, me And Chris paul reminds me a
lot Of Chris, paul that little man. Syndrome WHEN i
step on that, Floor i'm. Nasty i'm trying to Do
i'm doing anything to, win and the ultimate goal is to.
Win like they there's little tricks of the trade to get.
Win like you see some of the antics that THAT.
Cp we're doing games like grabbing the, ball knocking out of,
(18:50):
bounds running time off the, clock little tricks to win
the game that that most of your AVERAGE nba fan don't.
Realize but when you're playing against, something it annoys you
and you. Realize John stock had those same tricks of the. Trade,
yeah And i'm SURE i wouldn't be surprised to see
if he learned a lot from him and watched him growing.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Up, Yeah i'm pretty, sure all.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Right next Person compton in the House Dennis, JOHNSON Minguscrat
hall Of, famer five Time All, star three Time Champion FINALS,
mvp nine Time All. Defense johnson was one of the
best two league, guards two way, guards and floor generals
of the. Decade his peak years feature two top TEN mvp,
finishes two top SIX mvp finishes and a nine year
(19:30):
stretch of being on The All Defensive first and second. Team,
now you, know we had our previous, Guest Michael cooper
on and he said how Influential Dennis johnson was to
his career about, seeing you know what it takes to
get to THE. NBA i can play defense and make
it to.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
THE, nba you know WHAT i?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Mean and when you really think About Dennis johnson's impact
on The Boston, celtics to see how SuperSonics a lot
of guys, aren't you. Know obviously we Mentioned, stock you
know his steals. Mark but that's Why Dennis johnson was
a champ. Man he knew his role and he was,
very very good on both ends of the.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Floor, yeah you need somebody when you when you Got
larry And magic and those Two lakers And boston teams
going back for you gotta have a point guard that
can go toe to toe With. Magic obviously he Wasn't,
magic but that was that was his. Assignment you need
somebody to to to not get completely destroyed of that.
Matchup and And dennis was up for the challenge like
he's a he's a. Champion he was a. Winner moved
(20:32):
around and living on different, teams but, was LIKE i,
said he, was he was An All star before and
before he got To, boston, right so he, UH i
mean he was who he wasn't and got a little bit,
older rolled the mins a little bit when he got To,
boston but it led to winning and championships and playing
at the highest. Level, so, uh guy's got a lot
of respect For Dennis johnson or what he did of his,
(20:53):
career who played in that era and washed them and
nine nine Time All defensive.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Selections, yeah you like you Like Revis, island you know
WHAT i, Mean like it's not a lot of stuff happening,
man especially a guard in that. Era so they was
playing physical and you, know just just handling their. Business
it's gonna be interesting when we do our five, though
BECAUSE i feel like a lot of it's gonna be
leaned on, winning you know WHAT i, Mean like a
(21:20):
lot of guys made a lot of sacrifice and SAY
i was going, THERE i, Know i'm Just i'm just Saying.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I'm going who was the? Best WHO i think was the? Best?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Okay, okay Mo chieks Mo Chieks hall Of, famer four
Time All, star five Time All Defensive champion in eighty
three with.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
The philadelphia seventy six. Ers cheeks was another one of
the league's best two wayguards to this. Era from eighty
three to eighty, Eight cheeks.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Had a stretch of Five top ten Defensive player of
The year finishes and four straight defensive first. Teams cheeks
was a floor leader of the Legendary Most malone's Infamous
Fox Fox Fox. Team Mo cheeks obviously, coaching you, know
in THE, nba hell of a, player great point, guard floor. General,
(22:03):
again defense was, key you know WHAT i, Mean like
we're going from offense to. Defense it seems like a
lot of guys now we're talking about our great, defenders
you know WHAT i, mean even though they added their their,
load but they played maybe, third, second, third or fourth
option on those those those teams that they were playing
on because you, know he Had doctor J he had most,
(22:23):
alone you, know like guys are, stacked you know WHAT i,
Mean and he did the best in his.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Role. Man but just being on that defensive team and
playing a huge role as a, champion you gotta reward.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
It it was less teams back, then so the teams
were a little bit had more, talent especially the top
teams were kind of. Stacked you, had like you, said
you Had moses And DOCTOR j on the same team
And More cheeks was that point guard running that? SHOW i,
was like you said it on both sides of the,
ball and he was. Efficient just looking at his, numbers
he was always add or over fifty percent from the,
(22:58):
floor which is tough or small on guard like you.
Was so, yeah he did it with, efficiency consistency on
both sides of the. Ball was just a, solid solid point.
Guard and being In philly for the time THAT i,
DID i heard and saw a lot Of More cheeks stuff.
Around OH i.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Can, imagine, MAN i think that's like the Good. Again
you talk about.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Legacy when you think about legacy and you, know for
current players like yourself to go play at you, know
for The philadelphia seventy six ers, franchise and then they
compare you to these. Guys, okay, Yeah, seth you're a good,
shooter but could.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
You defend like More.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Cheeks you, know it's like random people just like, you like,
BROTHER i could, defend but you, know like what More
chicks used to. Do and now you get somebody reminded Like,
Yo mo chicks used to do, this and it's, like oh,
okay because you're only meeting them as a.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Coach so when you see them, now mos, on, HEY
i heard you was really like.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
That and he might get it off a little, bit
but you, know that's that's what people remember when how
you played, on you, know and the effort you put, in,
man and you know he's. Bad the next guy in
these all these guys were respected by.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Defenders.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Man you, Know Michael cooper shouted Off City monk scref as.
Well hall Of, famer five Time All, star five Time All,
defensive two Time Defensive player of The. Year behind his two,
wins he also had two other top three finishers For
Defensive player of The.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Year Monk creef is.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Considered by many to be one of the best defensive
guards the league has ever. Seen he's only sixty.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
FOUR i think he's like he was one of those,
combos like really a shooting, guard but his size a little,
small so he kind of couldn't have been that point
guard most, too so he was like that one of
those the first combo type.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Guards he's the guy you slide on magic just because
they playing The. Lakers you know, WHAT i, mean BUT
i definitely could see him playing another position and being
used in different. Ways Thus Williams williams william Another Seattle,
supersonic played Alongside Dennis. Johnson two Time All, star two
Time ALL, NBA nba. Champion he was a six two
(24:57):
scoring guard at his position that wasn't a norm at
the point he had nine four hundred, points was good
for the fourth MOST bot point guard during that. Decade
his peak year was eighty two eighty, three when he
averaged twenty three point four six point nine, assists three
point one, rebounds and two point two steals and finished
top five IN mvp.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
VOTING i mentioned top five.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Voting when people get those, nods it's almost like A grammy, nomination, Right, Like,
yo you you had an exceptional year enough to finish
in top. Five how do you feel about players that
are in the, Conversation.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
It's like An ALL nba selection to, Me like you
had a great. Year you look at some of these
years and the BEST i think sometimes the best way
to remember a year or out of season win was
look at some of THE mvp, Voting like, one most
of the time your team had a good, year you
got it that's a big criteria for guys to vote YOU.
(25:55):
Mvp you had to have a winning, season be at
the top of the, standings and then you Performed like,
obviously it's a lot of times in. There you look
at those lists where guys you knew they would never
win AN mvp but had to get a couple of
votes and the name had to be. Remembered in that,
sense it's only a handful of guys who really win
the m V p every year in the year. Out and,
(26:18):
uh LIKE i, said it's a good way to go
back if you want to think remember a, season, think,
oh who's hooping this? Year just looking look at the
top seven eight names on THE mvp voting list and
that'll tell you all you need to. Know But Gus
williams DOING i, mean the nickname The wizard speaks for. Herself, yeah,
right that's like he he had the. Handles he was
(26:39):
like a scoring. Threat first had the. Handles just electric
guard who who was a bucket and he's he early
in the decade was what he was hooping the. Most
so the late seventies early, eighties one of those guys
kind of Before magic and and all those Guys isaac
(27:00):
and all those guys started taking.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Over, YEAH i, mean he's definitely one of those guys
that He's he's the guy That Magic johnson's. Watching he's
the guy That Isaiah thomas is watching from their their
their childhood living room saying, Yeah, gus get, them you
know WHAT i, mean and taking a piece of, that
you know WHAT i. Mean and you kind of gotta
acknowledge him for what he.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Did.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Man and you know a lot of people talk about you,
KNOW i spent some time In. Seattle people talk About
Gus williams all the, time like.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Him and him and the next, Guy Norm. Nixon, yeah
they're kind Of this is when THE. Nba be, honest
THE nba was kind of, dying like it. Wasn't it
wasn't not a lot of eyes on. It so that's
why you Had magic and them guys come in and
and kind of save the, league bringing that excitement back
(27:48):
and tell us about this next.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Guy, yeah, Man Norman, nixon, dude two Time All, star
two time. CHAMPION a lot of people forget the Reason
magic was listed as a shooting guard the first season
is Because Norm nixon was the starting point, guard you
know WHAT i.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Mean they got a little. Interesting they end up shipping
him out to the to The. Clippers what's the?
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Doc what's the? Doc When norm was was hating On
magic winning, Time norm looking crazy in, THAT.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I, mean that's what it, was you know WHAT i,
mean because you know he was he was kind of
Like i'm the vet trying to throw his weight, around
which rightfully, so, man he was, cold, bro but you,
know it just kind of like. Shifted he probably would
have won more championships playing with The. Lakers But magic, like, hey,
bro you're not about to just be telling me what
to do every every now and. Then, MAN i had
(28:35):
this one substitute, teacher Mister, pratt and It's Kyler brat's,
UNCLE i, actually and he he showed us so much
footage On Rod strickland And Norm, nixon and he Despises Magic,
johnson like despises Because.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Norm nixon was his man on The lakers and he
got shipped to The, clippers and he was, like.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Man norm was supposed to have a way better, career,
Man like if he would have did this and, that
like he went off against The. Lakers he always used
to make us watch these. Tapes SO i got a
chance to See Norman nixon and how he. Played, man
his game was. Smooth you, know he ain't had you know,
again not that crazy, tall but just game like, butter
you know WHAT i. Mean he had Another Gus williams
(29:19):
type where they you, know point guard that liked to
shoot it a, lot but they also could find.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Guys and he was a coaches player.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
TOO i think that's another thing that when you think
about guys doing their own thing The Magic, era a
lot of them dudes took on their own personalities and
became coaches on the. Floor norm was kind of, like,
hey what offense we running and tempo is important and you,
know get it To, cap get it to these guys
and let's. Run let's do it this, way you, Know
(29:47):
and LIKE i, said they end up winning chip and
he was An All star and playing for The lakers
was probably like the highlight of his career man because
he was benefiting the most from. It his son actually
played him in winning, time which is kind of. Funny so,
YEAH i didn't even know, that. Yep Man Derek, Harper, Harper,
Harper Deren, Harper, OKAY i, Know i'm pretty sure you
(30:09):
got Some Derek harper Story Derek.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Harper Derek, harper actually it's.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Hilario i'm gonna read off his stats, first but THEN
i gotta tell a story about me And Derek.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Harper Bro.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So Deck harper was a two Time All defensive player
with three top Eight Defensive player of The year finishes
in his sixteen year. Career his peak, years where eighty
six to ninety, three were probably comparable To Drew holiday
type player. Today from a, perspective every TIME i bought
a pack of, CARDS i would get It Derek harper.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Card it never. Failed.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Bro it's a few of those guys who every TIME
i had like.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Seven Derek harper.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Cards, BRO i used to get mad at one point
BECAUSE i was just like man Like Derrick Harper. COLE
i Remember Derck harper went to The knicks, too Like.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Antonio mcdiicce was my guy in the. NIGHT i was
always Getting antonio mcdice cards for some. Reason but, anyway but, yeah,
nah tell us a tell about you, Know Derek harper
was all. Right so he was the color guy In.
Dallas he still does games, now but WHEN i was,
there he was a full time color guy and went
on the row and he was and he used to
JUST i, mean he's the old school hard no vet
(31:13):
like he used to just chop him up with him
before after. Games and supposedly he wanted the reasons they
put in a hand. Check SO i talked to, him
talked about like his. Defense he, said my dad said
he had the, strongest like four arms in, hand so
like he put that hand on your hip and guarding.
You he would just guide point guards around the floor
like they. Could you couldn't beat, Him you couldn't really
(31:34):
move like he would put that hand on your hip
and just lock you. Down so like he's one of
the best most physical defensive point guards definitely in the
eighties and the. Nineties and just his his just looking
at his jersey up there on the rafters In. Dallas
had TO i had to learn some stuff about him
because he that's one of those.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Dudes that's really interesting too when you talk about hand, checking, Right,
yeah and then you also think about this, era a
lot of guards back. Down they backed down a lot of,
Players so think about the defenders that's getting back down
like that's magic, thing like magical back you down eighty
four feet if he, could you know WHAT i.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Mean but just being. Strong you, know we hear the
stories about The Joe. Dumars we.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Hear you, know most of these defensive guys literally move their,
feet hand, checking hand on your. Hip Derek harper guarding,
you you know WHAT i, mean making sure turning you
left or, right pushing you to the big that's effective
man him and him and A Rinaldo blackman man that
That maths team bro like they was getting aftered.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
For, real Like Ronaldo blackman was around.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Too all Those cubans Like dalla's treat their former players
man to be that was.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
A cuban that Was that was A Mark cuban thing
his guys when he bought the team and stuff, right
he had them, around taking helping them be a part
of the organization and just really just rehashing that history
and keeping it. Alive And dallas like they do have
a history of some hoopers out.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
THERE i mean that gott to make you feel good
as an active, player like when you see, it, like,
hey this MIGHT i might have a job later on
down the, line you know WHAT i.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Mean i've seen A Darryl.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
ARMSTRONG i, said a bunch of, guys you know WHAT i,
mean go and either you get a front off his
gig OR i See Popaya jones is over there, now
you know WHAT i, Mean like he take care of the.
Players but it's just always, good, man because it almost
feels like a high school feel where you're coming back
and he, say, hey, self tell him about how when you,
play you know WHAT i, Mean and it's not might be,
yeah it's not even like an annoying thing because it's
(33:34):
like you being a younger. Player but you, see Like
Derek harper is, interrapters he's doing color, commentary and he
has valuable insight On, hey you know how to guard
this person he watching just like. Y'all he might be,
still he might it might have his blood. Boiling he's
seeing a certain player go. Off he, like, MAN i
could have stopped, him you know WHAT i. Mean SO
(33:55):
i think that's.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Cool. Man we definitely got to find a way to
Get Derek harper on your band because that that would definitely.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Be got some. Stories AND.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I could only imagine, that you know WHAT i, mean
BECAUSE i want to know how he got his wrist so. Strong,
mean that's a whole nother, thing, man BECAUSE i remember,
THAT i, MEAN i never play in a handchecking.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Era but you had to slap some hands, off you
know WHAT i. Mean and if his hand not, movie you.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Couldn't get it. Off you couldn't get it. Off you would,
cook get off the, ball do whatever you. Want Michael Ray.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Richardson always hear About Michael Ray. RICHARDSON i really didn't
get to watch a lot of. Him we's four Time All,
stars three times Still, champ two Time All. Defensive richardson could, score,
distribute and defend a true point guards point guard if you.
Will richardson was also top seven Defensive player of The
year finished to go with this all defensive. Selections you,
(34:45):
Know Michael Ray, richardson like, again these last guards that
we talked, about all defensive, Guys pride wanted to lock somebody.
Down he gonna you, know they gonna score the solid.
Fifteen they're gonna score the solid twenty. One it might
not be as consistent as the guys we mentioned, earlier
but their impact on the defense is the reason why
(35:05):
they won a lot of, games the reason why they won,
championships the reason why they're in these discussions and we're
talking about them. Today, man and you know you got
you gotta pay respect you know WHAT i mean to
these type of, Players you know WHAT i, mean especially
four Time All, STAR i really be thinking about.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
It, obviously it's kind of tough.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
To compare to The, kds The, lebrons the guys that
have been in the league so long that are Nineteen
All stars and Twenty All. Stars but if you know
how hard it is to make The All star, team for,
one we got a lot of one Time All. Stars
so if you made it four, times you.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Legit, yeah that puts you in rare. Air, yeah, yeah you're.
Special But, michael BUT i mean a we talk about this,
guy he's. Soon he was a super, athlete dynamic on
both ends of the. Floor you said it all about his,
defense but he. Wasn't he wasn't like that efficient and
that great. Offensively he couldn't shoot it that, well which
(36:01):
obviously hurt him in today's.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Era that's What i'm. Saying the analytics wasn't.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
There it was like it wasn't. There he would be
a lot more, scrutinized and he'll be he'd have some
problems in. Today the game.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Would be in a bad. Shape i'm not saying that
it is now because we're in a discussion. Era, right
it's age of.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Information we have access to everything and fans have a
louder voice than they. Should but think about a guy
going like like job right now is not shooting the
ball extremely. Well irish may have had a struggling shooting,
Night Michael jordan may his is kind of. Rare but,
like think About Michael Ray richardson going six for. Fifteen,
(36:45):
yeah but it's not just a talent. Thing i'm not
just saying it's just town skills to shoot.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Them some.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Beill it's part of. It his rules and the way
the game was. Played back, then we just talked about
handschecking and how physical a guy Like Derek harper could
be and all these we're talking about all these defensive
guards because they could be they could be, physical and
they could use their skills on the defensive end to
to hold down the opposing of guards who were good
(37:12):
off like that was a that was a major skill
where you're a, physical athletic. Guard back, then you had
an advantage because you could use all. That today you
can't really don't matter who you, are you can't really
stop a guy one on one because you can't do too.
Much you can't be too. Physical guys are smart drawing
fouls and all. That there wasn't the case back, Then
so that's probably what that's that's, OBVIOUSLY i, mean guys
(37:34):
are more skilled in today's, era but it's part that
inefficiency was due to the rules and and a lot
of that has changed because they made them more.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Watchable, Yeah i'm gonna shout out these two honorable.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Mention tiny retired in eighty, four still playing at a high,
level has two top TEN mvv finishes during this, decade
And Fat lever two Time All, star three top Ten
Defensive player to The year, finishes two top TEN mvp
finishes as, Well so you know how much you gotta
be hooping to be top two IN mvp talks and
(38:10):
then also three top Ten Defensive player of The year,
mentions you know WHAT i, Mean so that he really
was locking, Up he really was hooping to be considered ALMOST,
mvp you know WHAT i. Mean he probably lost to
some super superstars that were just really they end up
probably going to win it, all you know WHAT i
mean those. Years but, Man Fat leaver is another one
man had one of the coolest. Names he's also another.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
GUY i allway used to get his trading.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
CARD i had The Denver Nuggets Fat lever card all the, time,
Man but he also had like a cool.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Name.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
MAN i always hear About Fat lever and how good he.
Was All, right we're gonna take a quick, break and
when we come, back we're going to discuss our top.
Five this should get, interesting, man because doc he says
he's not going to defensive. Minded he's sticking to the.
Criteria i'm going to individual. Base, HEY i can't wait
(39:01):
to hear. It all, right we're back. Dot let us hear, it.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Man all, right let's get.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
It let's get.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
IT i got my top five go point guards of the.
Eighties number, FIVE i got my Guy Derek harper just
hearing being in my. House and but even BEFORE i
got The, DALLAS i heard About Derek harper from my
pops playing against. Him he didn't him and his point
guards didn't enjoy. It So Derek HARPER i got number,
five number, FOUR i Got Mo, Cheeks Mo, cheeks number,
(39:47):
four number, Three Dennis, johnson number Two isaiah and number
One Magic. JOHNSON i Left john stocked it out because
he's a nineties got to, me so don't kill.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Me, Nah you're, Good you? Good all?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Right, Uh i'm going to go at, Five Gus. Williams at,
Four i'm going to go With Mo. Cheeks at, Three
i'm gonna go With Norm, nixon and at Two Isaiah,
(40:28):
thomas and at One Magic.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Johnson you're a real la, Guy Norman nexus nicking in
the top.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Five, hey two, times two time Champ.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
California. LOVE i had to give.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
HIM i had to give him some. Love you, Know
magic got him shipped up out of. There but you
know he was, hooping so you, know.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Everybody else was defensive.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
MINDED i wanted, to you, know shout that out a little.
Bit but you, know for the point, guards we want
to have some. Assists we have a little. Scoring were
more we leaning towards the offense more than the. DEFENSE i,
mean we can talk about the greatest defensive point guards
of the eighties next. Time that could be another topic
and then maybe they can solidify their crown because it
(41:10):
gets a little bit more into. Detail but for this one,
man you, know the, criteria it's a.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
LOT i do want to guest on him for one
of these eighties episodes talking about the defense because they
need to they need to state that. Case for the
physicality and how how it was harder to score back
then maybe we get somebody on here for.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
That MAYBE i.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
CAN i can see physicality being there just because a
lot of stuff was, riding like you know WHAT i,
Mean like guys get like throwing elbow, shivers, joints you
know WHAT i, mean to cross the, paint and.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
It was always too bigs and like if you're a quick,
guard you can maybe get by your, man but then
you had to meet, two, yeah two physical forwards or
centers in the paint just to. Finish, yeah so a
lot of times you would get in, there you would
off it off to a big who is spacing out
the fifteen feet or under the basket or. Whatever it
was just a Different the game was played completely. DIFFERENT
(42:07):
i can't also.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Think about the competition within the, competition you're playing against,
somebody but you're also playing against somebody for your.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Spot. Yeah oh, YEAH i, said, yeah the league was,
smaller more competition for your.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Spot, YEAH i mean.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
THAT i think that that's that's good for business, sometimes,
man you, know because now you're playing and we're kind
of getting back there because it's so many guys are it's.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
A whole thing of. Players bro like a whole pool
of players that just don't want out or you're seeing
a bunch of young guys do they three and.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Out it's a lot of. Talent it's a lot of.
Talent and that's what they're. TALKING i think that's why
expansion is coming. Eventually, yeah because you got you think
some of your names who are in the, league or
some of these names who are in the league but
aren't in the rotation not getting, minutes like, yeah we
needed two more teams.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
EIGHT i, mean it gets really, interesting, man BECAUSE i
hate to think consider a guy being bad just because
he's not. Playable but then also, again you know they
talk about it all the time on some specialist stuff
like we need so many specialists in the. Game we
need you know WHAT i, mean like to the point
of like everybody the game need a reset, somehow some.
(43:17):
Way AND i think that starts with just keeping a
lot of veterans in the league and kind of just
building up like.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
The back of the next not even if guy's a bad,
thing like like it's a you're talking about. Specialists the
best players are so ball dominant and you got to
fit people around, them so even though this player might
might be. Better this player might play better With luca
or you know What i'm. Saying or this player might
be playing for our system better and we can mold
him because he got the athleticism and the, tools but
(43:46):
he's not as good as this. Guy so we're gonna
take the other guy who we can mold into play
in our system the way we want to. Play it's
legs to this. Man's so it's like a guy Who
russ who wasn't signed to start to start the. Year you,
know he's one of the top four hundred players in the,
world stizzy, easy and it's not even where he just
can't find a spot for. Him because you also.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Gotta look at. Fit How russ needs the. Ball what
Can russ do with other? Players Can russ? Support is
he gonna shrink the?
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Floor is he gonna do?
Speaker 4 (44:18):
This you know WHAT i?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Mean, Like, oh we don't need that for our, team
you know WHAT i. Mean like that's what the conversations
start getting. To it's not nothing Against, russ it's does he?
Fit and it's and it kind of sucks because it's, like,
well make we can make him, fit but it's not
really it don't work like. That, yeah it don't work
like that at. All all, right we're gonna take another,
break and when we come, back we're gonna do our favorite.
(44:38):
Topic born in The Wrong, era all, Right, Doc i'm
gonna kick it. Off born in The Wrong.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
ERA i got my.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Player i'm gonna, Say, MAN i got a role With Magic,
Johnson Magic, johnson big point. GUARD i don't know if
it would have worked in his favor as far as like,
dominating you know WHAT i, mean because he doesn't score.
Enough he would have to be a little bit more.
Selfish BUT i think that he would be in the
(45:20):
conversation as one of the best players in the. Game
he'd be super effective and maybe you, know obviously with
the floor of the game and how the game, is
he would change up his game a little bit.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
More see he made the adjustment to throw the throw the.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Skyhook SO i think he would be a better three point.
SHOOTER i think he probably would ad the mid range,
game and he probably would be more, athletic and he
probably be dunking on a couple of. Cats, man he
ain't dunk too. Much he used to like to to
dim it. Off but put him on a team you,
know if we had to monitor his his, trajectory put
him surround him around guys.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
That like to run and that to get. Open the
guys would love playing with.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Magic that's an easy, car easy. Call i'm going With Sidney,
moncrief born in the wrong. Area just he's a physical
good like one of those tweeters which you see a
lot of, today not really kind of positionless at that
one two and remind me a lot of That Drew holiday.
Type mold can guard great defensive on on the defensive,
(46:19):
end but also silid on the office e Vent he
can shoot the mid rainge, whatever the a three point.
Shooter but LIKE i, SAID i mean probably could have
added that if he really wanted to shot the mill. Range.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Fine.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Uh physical got to the rim a. Lot so he's
in that That Marcus, Smart Drew holliday just. Combo physical
can play the one in the two whatever you.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Need, YEAH i MEAN i like that. CHOICE i like that.
Choice all, right, man this has been a great. Convo,
man some good, bump you know WHAT i.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Mean, like we gotta we gotta find some eighties guys,
Man Scott, rochell help us, out you, know lander some guys.
Man but besides, That, man this is. AGAIN i can't
wait to talk about the next. One, Man, dot where
can they find?
Speaker 1 (47:06):
You That's Doc. Curry That's Doc curry everywhere.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
All, right At, trey at.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Travn and we also have a New instagram page at
The Goat, pod the G O T e P O.
D make sure you, Follow send us some, dms send us.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Some suggestions and who should we who should we have
on the? Show AND i think that's, It, Dot that's, it,
Man we're out of.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Here.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
Go this has been A Unanimous media.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Original goat was produced BY I Write podcasts And Unanimous.
Media it was hosted By, Me Trevon edwards And Steph.
Purry executive produced By Stephen curry And Eric. Kate co
executive Producer Collini Maria. Cutting the executive producers At iHeart
podcasts Are Sewn titone And Jason. English this series was
produced By Derek jennings And Peter, Kutcher co Producer Kurt.
(48:07):
Read original music By Jesse. Woodard special thanks To Stephen
curry And Will. Pearson got is the production Of Unanimous
media And iHeart. Podcasts for more podcasts From, iHeartRadio visit
The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
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