October 29, 2019 • 57 mins
Joined by Geoff Shackelford, Senior Writer Golfweek and Golf Channel contributor. Tiger Woods vs. Sam Snead (1:00 - 19:50). Gary McCord and Peter Kostis out at CBS (20:05 - 36:15). What could gambling do to the PGA TOUR? (36:30 - 56:22) Send a down-the-line video of your swing to golfschools@hankhaney.com and tell us your big miss. We'll diagnose and respond within 24 hours and it's absolutely free!
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the hank Any Podcast, a production of I
Heart Radio. Welcome to the hank Any Podcast. Great to
(00:23):
be with you today. Joining me today is one of
the members of the golf media that I always looked
to for information. He is one of the most in
tune people I know in the world of golf. His website,
Jeff Shackleford dot com it's an absolute go to website.
I am there every single day checking out his stories,
(00:45):
the information, uh, and Jeff has an incredible uh this subtle,
sarcastic sense of humor that I get into as well.
You can follow him on Twitter at Jeff shack It's
g E O F F S H A c UH,
and you can obviously go to his website Jeff Shuckleford
(01:07):
dot com. He's a senior writer for Golf Week and
a Golf Channel contributor. My friend Jeff Shackelford is joining
me now on the Hey Katie Podcast. So, Jeff, thanks
for joining me today. I appreciate it, but always good
to talk off with you. You're my favorite person to
talk golf with, and you probably wouldn't know that because
(01:27):
I'm always like debating you all the time. But I
love uh, and I go to I say this all
the time. You have the best website, Jeff Shackleford dot com.
I go to your website. That's like, you know, I
go to ESPN. Uh, you know, I check out the news,
you know, I uh, but but I always go to
(01:49):
Jeff shuck for dot com. Always go there. So I
appreciate you being on with me. Uh, big news. I
got a few things I want to talk to you about.
I want to get into the the whole TV deal
because you're so tied into the media and everything that's
going on there. I want to talk also a little
bit about this uh gambling deal. Let's coming to the tour.
(02:10):
Get your thoughts on that. I know you've got some
opinions on that, but we gotta start with Tiger Woods
eighties second PGA Tour victory at the Zozo Championship. His
career winning career spanning twenty three years. He ties Sam Sneeze, Mark,
give me your your thoughts. Well, uh, I actually think
(02:31):
most of the people are gonna want to know what
you have to take as a listener of your your pond.
It's been great so far. I've been really enjoying it.
By the way, you you've you've, you've found the medium
very successfully and I'm I'm thrilled for that and I'm
loving the having the pods hit my phone. Um, what
a bizarre week that he's kind of shows up at
(02:52):
the Skins game looking all ragged and uh, kind of
like he hasn't been working on his game, kind of
like what we saw at the championship and and then
starts three over and from there on he's brilliant and
the swing looks sensational, the game looks sensational. He looked
a little I thought a little stiff today on the
(03:13):
Monday finished the morning turnaround was a little bit tough
for I thought that same thing he looked, he looked bigger.
That's a good observation, really good. Yeah, he's just not
a morning guy anymore. And I think that's the moral
of the whole week, is that when he's healthy, he's
(03:35):
going to be great. It's just a matter I can
he hold the body together because we didn't know what
was bothering him. It turns out the knee was bothering him.
And you'd see him get out of the car. I
think at the BMW, you know, he looked like an
old running back when he got out of the car,
you know, need the two legs to turn sideways to
get out of the car. And then he hobbled him
(03:56):
like a fifteen minute drive from the hotel, I do
that after or maybe a five hour drive. So it
was clear the knee was a problem. Now it's not.
He got it fixed, and he just he looked refreshed
and ready to go. And I'm just I'm blown away
by how how well he's playing under pressure. There's no
no moonballs off. Those holes that give him trouble are
(04:20):
at least traditionally gave him trouble, aren't giving him trouble.
It's really those first few holes. It's about warming up,
and he's getting into the round. Really, now, would you say, yeah,
I mean he always had that issue. Well yeah, I
mean there's no doubt about it. Um I thought, well, okay,
back to the Skins game. He played the Skins game
with Rory, had a DECI and and uh and then
(04:42):
um you know himself, and I mean I don't even
remember they see this is the thing. If it's this
is it? Okay right here? Okay, who Rory? Okay? But
but who was the was there four there was just three.
(05:04):
I didn't remember Jason Day see there you go. This
this is the thing. It's I mean, this is something
I stayed up to watch. I don't even remember three
of the players. Um and I you know, because it's
it's Tiger Woods or nothing. But but anyway, he he,
you know, didn't look great. And I you know, so
we were talking about and I said, you know, he's
you know, I'll finish top twenty. Okay, you know something's
(05:25):
Steve asked me. Johnson asked me, what is he gonna finish?
I said, they'll phase top twenty. And and it's like,
because I'm looking at it, I'm thinking, I understand everybody
says this is such a strong field. I mean, I
don't want to write it on the parade, but I'm
just this is just the way it is. There was
thirty one players out of the top fifty, So that's strong.
That makes it. That makes it like a tour championship event.
(05:47):
That's what it is. But but that's that's it's it's
no more than a tour championship. And I don't you know,
tour championships are easier to win for Tiger Woods, and
they always were I mean any time he played in
a short field event, World Golf Championships, Uh, you know, Tiger,
(06:08):
whatever the thing was, you know it, sure what every year,
Uh you know, it doesn't matter. But I just I
just felt like it's less guys that could go off
and have you know, the week of their life. So
I always gave him, uh, you know, a chance. And
then I looked at the course and I and you know,
I did say, I did. I said, he's gonna face
top twenty. I didn't think he was gonna win, but
(06:29):
I did say that this is a golf course based
on the conditions that he just used to eat this
place up and and would win a tournament like this
hands down because of this short field rough you can
play out of, uh, a golf course that had plenty
of room. I understand there's there's tight holes with trees,
(06:51):
but but Jeff, when there's another fairway over there, even
though even if there's trees in between that other fairway,
it doesn't influence him like it does when is out
of bound steaks over there. I'm just you know it
Tellian Gary Woodland mentioned after round he said he always
misses it in the right place and that's what he'll
he'll he'll do. But but when you have soft greens, um,
(07:13):
it just it allows him to He's so good at
control in his distance, he always has been, and he
can hit the ball pin high. The ball is gonna
hit and stop. It's like throwing darts. And I just
remember back to when when he almost wanted Oakmont at
the US Open. You know, finished finished second there, unhealth
Cabara win. But but Tiger played great there and you
(07:37):
know the one round he had seventeen greens, I think
it was Saturday's round. It was, you know, he missed
the eighteenth green, miss the fairway and missed the greens,
the only only green he missed. But I thought, he
can't get the ball close to the hole here because
this is like you got to hit it in a
certain spot. Then it's got to roll over there and
roll over there, and then it might get close. And
when he gets on golf courses where it's it's soft
(07:57):
and you can you're throwing darts. There has never been
a better iron You can say whatever you want about
his game, and people do, but there's never been a
better iron player than Tiger Woods. I don't think no.
And that the one the one bummer of the week
because they didn't have shot link there, so we don't
know what, um, what he did in terms of strokes
(08:19):
gain or proximity of the whole compared to the rest
of the field, And it would have been fun to
see that because it was pretty clear he dominated with
his iron play. The greens were tricky. I watched a
lot of puts take some pretty hard turns at the
whole for people, and and and you know the rule
staff that that sets up the courses does not like
(08:40):
to put holes in spots where they do that. So
those greens were quick despite all the rain, and they
had some some pitch to them and some contour, and
it was impressive how well he handled those as well.
But I think obviously the iron game was just ridiculous
and good for him. I mean I I was, I
just completely fascinated by the fact that he could turn
(09:03):
it on the way he did, looking as rusty as
he did earlier, because you know, he came to part
rush and he was the same way and lethargic and
and something clicked. But but the difference here was obviously
that he just looked better physically. Um, he had an
energy and a smile and a look that said he
(09:25):
was feeling better. Uh and and his knee wasn't bothering him,
and we now realized it was bothering him a lot
more than we realized, right right right, you know, listen,
I I said Tiger is gonna win even when he
first came back from the you know, I don't know
how many comebacks to go this was, but I said,
he's gonna win because he's just he's just so good.
He's got so much, so much talent in there. Uh,
(09:47):
he he has so much experience. The mental stuff. I
didn't believe all that for a second that that was
ever going to be an issue if he got in contention,
and it hasn't been when he's when he's been in contention. Uh,
you know, I mean I remember, well, I'll give you
an example. Marco Merrow wins this year at Tucson at
the Champions Tour event, and Mark hadn't even played for
(10:10):
a week shows up and it's not like Mark's played great.
But but having said that, he's a Hall of Fame
golfer who has a great record with closing when he's
when he one of the best records ever with closing
when he's when he's on the lead on on Sunday,
and Mark wins that tournament. I feel like, you know,
and Mark's is an example, but he's nowhere on the
(10:32):
level of Tiger Woods. Tiger just if he if he
plays and has his week and it'll you know, it'll
be his week. He'll always he'll always be tough to beat.
So he wins his eighties second tournament, he ties UH
Sam Snead. Where do you put that record? I mean,
everybody gives Jack Nicholas the nod as greatest player ever,
(10:55):
greatest golfer ever. I don't know how you I I say,
nobody's ever played golf better than Tiger Woods, but Jack
Nicholas greatest golf ever because he's won eighteen majors. But
where do you how how does uh Sneeze record figure
into all this? Well, I've been fascinated by uh some
of the reactions and discussion about Sneed's record, And I
(11:16):
get it. There was a rain delay day and now
they're in a Monday finished Sunday for US in US
and writers and analysts get a little bit bored. And
I've been a little surprised how many were kind of
trashing Sneed eighty two and and and look, I get it.
There was a crossby. There was eighteen holes that probably
got thrown in because the crosby became a tour event.
(11:39):
Excuse me. Sam Sneed won the A T and T
Pebble Beach National Program. I forget that anyone to win them?
Did you know that, Hank? You want to win them
at a century Tournament of champions as well? Um, and
uh so I've been a little mystified at that. I
get it. Look, some of those events were great, but
Tiger also won a lot of events with no cuts.
(12:00):
He got to fly private, he got to hit a
lot of drives with a driver the size of a
water bellon that Sam would love to have played golf with.
You can go on and on. And I had a
little uncomfortable, a little unseemly, frankly, that people were suddenly
wanting us to be excited about number eighty two and
then kind of diminishing the number eighty two by poking
(12:23):
holes and Sam sneeze record. So I thought, I just
thought that was strange. But it's a it's a sensational record.
It's not the major championship. One. But it's right there
because of what it takes to win tour events, the longevity,
the devotion, the interest and uh, you know, Sam Steed
one quite a few as an older guy, which is
(12:45):
pretty INCREDI incredible to look at what he did in
his forties. And Tiger still could. I don't. I don't
know if he has the motivation to bring it every week. Um,
but he he may, he may find it. Um. And
so I think it's a great record, and I'm glad
it's being played up and hyped and and and and
Tiger the master Showman has set it up beautifully too.
(13:08):
Now turn up at Torry Pines, most likely as his
next official PJ Tour event, with a chance to to
break the record in southern California, which would befitting. No,
it would be uh you know, Okay, no one's won
more than what one major after the age of forty three?
Is that? What is that? What it is? Um? That
(13:29):
sounds right? I think? So Tiger has three to catch
catch Jack. Let me let me ask you this. If
he were to catch Jack Nicholas, um, which is you know,
still a long shot. I think three major, But he
showed it at Augusta, he could do it. And then
of course when he plays like he did this week,
you know, although that's not a major championship condition golf course,
(13:50):
that's not let's not confuse that with And I don't
care what the field was like, it was still a
short field. But still when he plays like this, everybody
you know thinks this is gonna happen. Let's say he
he does catch catch Jack and they they tie at
at eighteen majors. Is this is this the sneed the
all time record, This the sneed record, which which he
(14:10):
would have broken at that point. Is that the tiebreaker?
I think so, yeah, that's a good tiebreaker, and I
hope we have that that problem. He certainly has some
venues coming up that he loves, and you know, he's
a course for course guy, and I think Way puts
a good US Open venue for him. Obviously, Tory Pines
(14:31):
Um is the year after for the U s Open,
So there're there are a couple of US Open venues
that he should he should love Um and and Brittish
he loves you also. I think any British all say
George is unfortunately next year is probably the one that's
a little bit um, not probably up his alley or
(14:53):
anyone's alley. It's kind of kind of funky. But but
if he gets to going there, you never know. He
loves yeah, the links, golf and the win game and
the creativity. It's the best chance for him. I thought
his best chance would usually be where where greens were
a little bit slower. Um, but gush those greens this week,
despite all that rain, which started at six inches and
(15:16):
went to nine inches and then it was ten inches yesterday,
they got a lot of anything over three. I wrote
a little piece for Golf Week. Anything over three and
they can play within a day or two is a miracle.
So um. But they kept their speed, and they were
they were really tricky and and didn't seem to face him.
So I don't know if green speed really anymore. Is
(15:37):
is that big of a deal for him given what
I kind of thought that that was. Why Why were
you concerned about green speed? I just never got the
sense of that super fast greens anymore were his thing,
and that he was a better putter, stroking the ball
a little bit more instead of just starting it. But
you may disagree. Maybe maybe he's better. Gary Woodland is
(15:59):
one of the worst he is on the tour, and
he had a great week this week, just starting the
ball on line and put better than normal, and um,
good for him. I think that's I've never really quite
known what to make of that discussion that the great
putters at my age, great putters always did really well
on fast, tough pola greens. Um, there were where there
(16:21):
was a lot of break, and it may have changed now,
may have changed with the modern putting stroke is better
on super fast greens, I don't know, but Tiger has
a great stroke either way. So yeah, well you know,
to your point, he's he's gotten around Augusta, uh in
about the last honestly probably fifteen years of trying to
(16:44):
be honest with you, at Augusta, he's gotten around there
with two three puts are less twice and and and
one of those was was in two thousand five when
he won the Masters, and then this last year he
had to three pots and one when the Masters. So
so he has trouble getting around there with with less
(17:04):
than two three butts, which I kind of count as
the number that you need to get two or less
to win that that tournament. And if you look at
the statistics usually it will say that's that's the case.
Of course, I count three butts when you're an inch
off the green, and the PGA Tour doesn't count him
that way. But but I think that is a good point.
The one thing that's that's always been underrated about Tiger
(17:26):
is and it maybe not underrated, but it's just something
that sticks out in my mind a lot more than
it does maybe in other people's mind. And it was
on full display at the Zozo Championship. Is his ability
to lag the ball close to the whole to and
and to take stress off of protecting a lead, and
(17:46):
and it's just, you know, he just has tapping after
tapping after tapping, never having a market, never having a
sweat over a three or four footer. It's just it's
an amazing skill that he has. What do you see
when you you look at his golf swing right now?
I mean I thought his swing looked looked looked good.
I mean, he he looks like you know, I actually
(18:08):
like his swing. I liked his swing when he when
he came back, uh you know, with it after the
back surgeries. And I like where his swing is now.
He's playing more three quarter shots, which is a good thing.
Last year, he didn't do as much of that. I
think that you know, whenever he comes back from a break,
his mind has been working and they'll always be something,
(18:33):
you know, coming different. And one of the things that
was different was he played more partial swings and if
you'll notice, his wedge game was a lot better. You know,
his his distance control was was was much much better.
So I yeah, I think it was very good, you know,
I mean, uh, his his short game was a little funny.
(18:55):
He played a lot of ball back in the stance,
lean the chaft forward and you know, a couple of
times the announcers were a little mystified at the shot
that he tried to play, but obviously that was the
one that he's comfortable with. Um. But but I thought
his his his full swing looked good. And you know,
for him, it's not you know, everybody says he needs
to hit the ball affair. He doesn't need to hit
the ball affair. He just needs to hit the ball
(19:16):
not in the you know, middle of the woods or
out of bounds or in the water. That's all he
needs to do. Uh, you know, because he's the best
iron player ever, and he's the best iron player ever
out of the rough too, So it's none of that's
gonna gonna bother him. But if he hits fairways, then
that's a big bonus. But yeah, I thought it was
I thought it was good. I gotta I gotta ask
(19:37):
you about the TV stuff. Well, we'll take a little
we gotta take a little break here from my sponsors. Here.
We'll be right back with Jeff Shackelford on the Hank
Any Podcast. Alright, So, Jeff, big news that came out.
(20:10):
I guess just yesterday about two of my favorites, Peter
Kostas and Gary McCord are done with with CBS. What
what what do you make of that? Well? It, uh,
it really came out of nowhere. Um. I ended up
writing the story for Golf Week. One of our other
(20:32):
writers first heard about it, um and relayed the message
to me, and I made a couple of calls and
within about a half hour CBS on a Saturday morning,
I just send a note to their person in charge
of PR and said yes, and we'll provide you a statement. Wow. Okay,
(20:53):
So that was quick and we put up a story.
And there you go, after all those years to sort
of icons of their broadcasts are gone, and at the
time of year where they don't have much going on
obviously in golf, they shut down and they start again
at Torrey Pines. And it's, uh, it's confounding, frankly, because CBS,
(21:15):
if you know how they are, they're very loyal network.
They're they're not one to run people off. There was
a big deal when they had buyout this summer and
they ran a tribute on their broadcast to a lot
of people who've worked a lot of telecasts, and so
it's not like them to do this so naturally. The sense,
(21:35):
if you you read some of the people analyzing it
is that it feels like it's some sort of hail
Mary to to show the PGA Tour that they are
serious about freshening up their broadcasts. You think that's it.
I mean, I do you think you think there's displeasure
with CBS is broadcast. I do? I do? I think
(21:57):
they Yeah, I think they've gotten a little complacent, and
I think the tour has, uh from what I've heard,
felt that way as well, and a lot of viewers have.
If you go on social media during the tournament, that's
kind of a common theme that they feel, you feel
a little like you're getting the same broadcast that you've
got fifteen years ago. And then when they do up
(22:21):
the production values at the PGA Championship, Uh, it only
irritates people more because they're like, why didn't you do
this every week, which, of course is irrational. It's hard
to do some of the things that networks do during
a major every week. It's expensive, or it's it's just
requires more people, or it's just, um, it's not easy
to have a shot tracer on every shot or um
(22:44):
certain kinds of stats and certain kinds of aerial shots
and things like that. So I think that it's there's
a very good chance that is what was the motive. Obviously,
both have been there a long time, so they were
well paid. What about what about that? Because you know,
with any bump, you know, with any bump, these guys,
these have to be the two highest paid guys they
(23:05):
have either I'm sure obviously Jim Nanson Nick Fellow, but
but let's let's count them out. But the other guys,
I mean, they did cut the two highest paid guys
they have on their crew. Sure, because they've been there
the longest, it would make the most sense that they
were paid well, so it very well could be something
as simple as a cost cutting move. But I don't
(23:25):
feel like with the timing with the tour deal, that
that's the message they would want to be sending. So
my my guess is that it is more about trying
to show the tour that they are um eager to
to to put forward a broadcast that's kind of modern
and technical and with with data on the screen and uh,
(23:47):
you know a lot of the things that people. I mean,
obviously the number one thing they want is a tracer.
They could care less he's announcing now and I've been
a yes. I feel I feel especially for for Gary
because um, people really took a disliking to his style
(24:08):
and as somebody who essentially when I really got into
the game, he was he was really kind of in
his hey day, and he was trying to bring energy
to the broadcast, trying to bring a different voice, and
I I feel for him that in the way people
are so tough on him, Um social media, you just
(24:28):
if they knew how much he knew about the game,
He's forgotten more about the game than most of them have.
And I don't know if television really allowed him to
to show his knowledge enough. Being a sixteenth old tower guy,
you just you're you're almost a traffic cops. You're not really, um,
I mean as at moment you're allowed to show your knowledge.
(24:49):
And and certainly Gary knows a lot about the golf
swing and spent a lot of time talking to a
lot of people searching. UM and so he rubbed a
younger general Asian the wrong way. And I don't really
even know why. It's it's sort of a mystery of me. Um.
I get that he had a stick and they didn't
like a stick, but um, I don't think it's it's uh,
(25:12):
he was a reason that their broadcasts felt stale, nor
did I certainly not Peter Costas either. It's a I
don't I really don't know if the announcers deserved the
blame on that. But it feels to me like that's
kind of what happened here, and it's a cruel business.
TV is that way, you know? I mean, I mean,
John Smalts, I've got we're talking right now. World Series
(25:35):
is on and Joe Buck and John Smalts just get slaughtered.
They get absolutely slaughtered. And if they get anywhere near
criticizing launch angle baseball, some of the modern ways that
baseball is played, which if you've watched the game a
long time, it's just like those of us in golf
who lament the loss of certain shots and certain elements
(25:58):
in the game moving the ball. Um, they get hammered
and they get absolutely awful things said about them. And
people are the geeks, The stat geeks are just vindictive. Um.
And so it's a tough business television, as you know,
being on those those broadcasts people, um, they're almost irrational
(26:21):
and what they expect you to to be able to
provide it in very little short durst. Radio's tough business too,
it is. But as you know, podcasting and radio, UM,
imagine toe it in. The difference in your podcast is
your radio show you are able to you're not interrupted
sometimes by the commercial And that's why people love podcasting
(26:42):
because if it's somebody they enjoy listening to, they get
to hear them finish their thoughts. Gary McCord would be
great on a podcast, and he and peters to do
a podcast because television truncates what um, you want to say.
Sometimes you're right about Gary because he he is not
out and costs too. I mean, Peter Costas has so
(27:03):
much great information, it's incredible. And what he does with
those analyzing those swings on the fly. Let me just
tell you something that's not easy to do. You're not
just gonna march somebody in to do what he does.
I can tell you that much now. And you're trying
to look at a little monitor and it's the sun's out,
and it's larry, and there's people yelling at you, and
there's a director I wanting to know if you're ready
(27:26):
to go, and it's it's not an easy thing to juggle.
So um, So we'll see how how it plays out. Obviously,
they're right in the thick of this whole contract negotiation,
and it's it's pretty easy to conclude that this was
a move Um made to possibly influence Where Where do
you think Where do you think all that's gonna go?
(27:46):
Where do you think all that's gonna go? There's been
all these there's all these rumors out there that the
PGA Tour is going to start their own station, you know,
like the NFL, MLB, NBA? What what what? What do
you think? What do you think is gonna happen? I
think that's not a good idea, but I think it's possible.
(28:08):
But my sense is that they'll ultimately go with a
model of multiple networks, because it's good to have multiple networks,
as the NFL can tell you, And but it has
to be done the right way. I mean, look at
you know, back to baseball, there on TBS and MLB
Network and um Fox Sports one sometimes and then sometimes Fox,
(28:29):
and it's a little hard to find them. And I
don't know how much the tour values the ease of
finding a channel. I certainly think it's important, especially golf
viewer demographic of viewers is a little bit older and
and still is mostly watching cable. And there's something really
and I'm biased here obviously because I'm on the Golf
(28:50):
channel sometimes, but there's something really valuable about knowing every
Thursday and Friday where to find the tour and on
the weekend mornings, it's very valuable to know they're gonna
have the leading coverage and then you know it's CBS
or NBC. And I I don't know when they get
down to a negotiation like this, and the and and
the money is out there and there's people trying to
(29:12):
get in on it, whether they chase the money or
they there's somebody in the room that says, you know,
pretty great to have these these very simple the simple
menu of how to find our product, and then you're
throwing streaming. I don't I don't envy the Tours position
in the sense of we're still not sure how the
(29:33):
whole streaming thing will work for sports, So I feel
like they're just still a little early um on on
sensing how it's all gonna play out, So that part
of their equations kind of tricky for them. But I
think ultimately they're going to try to have h MBC, NBC,
Golf Channel, CBS and whoever their cable partner is, maybe
(29:56):
it's Golf Channel, UM and ESPN, AB see AH as
their as their partners, and try to bring in one
more network like that. And then obviously when you bring
in ABC and ESPN, you bring in maybe a few
more tournaments that finished on the on the network on
ABC instead of cable, and then you bring in espns
(30:18):
ability to get people interested in what you do, you know,
showing highlights and interviewing your athletes, and it's something they
kind of lost when they moved away from ESPN and
A lot of us criticized at the time, like what
are they thinking? And I think they want to get
a little that back. Oh it's it's a good point.
(30:39):
I mean, at the end of the day, it will
come down to who you know, it just you think
it just comes down to, you know, what's the biggest
dollar amount they can they can pile together. Fear that
and I think that's a mistake because I don't think
you're ever gonna well, one, their model is very successful
and the thing you need to you wonder how they
(31:01):
look at this, But most of these corporations that sponsor
tour against ultimately still on eyeballs and being on Amazon
Prime streaming, Um, they may not get those numbers. And
so network television for sports still is very powerful, and
(31:23):
I hope they value that. I don't. I really don't
think that will ever change. It may, but I don't
think it will. So how they weigh all that is
is really interesting. But these these these companies that spent
a lot of money, and they spend a lot of
money to sponsor tour event. I think they're ultimately going
to ask that question, uh, you know, why is my
(31:44):
tournament on? Or or they could potentially ask questions why
am I on the new Turner Golf network that used
to be headline news when you know that tournament gets
to be on NBC and Golf Channel. So they have
some things like that to weigh with the sponsors. It's
a tough, a tough thing. I my My biggest concern
(32:07):
is do they think of it from the viewer perspective?
And you look at somebody like Baseball's contract right now,
and it's kind of discombobulated, weird thing with channels and
you know, this year's Turner is doing the the National
League and next year they're the American League and uh
and Fox has been kind of a mess on that
(32:27):
Joe Buck has to leave in the middle of a
series to go do a Thursday night game. You know,
those little things add up to me as a viewer.
But again, I'm not I'm not the millennial viewer that
is watching things on YouTube and cutting the cable and
streaming things. So that's who they're trying to be aware
of as well. Right yeah, well, okay, so what about
(32:49):
that that this streaming, this whole streaming thing has it's
created a lot of it seems like it's it's create
it's in the process of creating a lot of new
jobs for people because I I, you know, go online
to you know, pg A Live or whatever it's called,
and you know, of course US Open and Masters and
you know, featured holes and featured groups and this and that,
(33:11):
and there's a lot of you know, voices that are
popping up. I what, what's the what's the future on
this whole streaming thing. I think they mentioned something maybe
every player is gonna you know eventually or what. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're very excited about some technology that the tour has developed.
(33:32):
I don't understand it, but I know there are markets
in the world where this probably will matter. But they
can basically record every shot played at every tournament. And um,
so if you're in Japan and you're a fan of
Hideki mantza Yama and he's playing at the Players next year,
you'll be able to see every shot he plays, and
(33:54):
at the end of the day, there will be an
algorithm that pieces it all together. And I guess where philosophically,
I am mystified by that approach. Um is that that
to me? Yeah, you sit down to watch a football game,
you sit down and watch a basketball game, because you
know it's gonna those sports are gonna be a certain
length of time. Golf and baseball are maybe like tennis
(34:19):
as well. I think tennis fits in this category where
there's sports you enjoy having on in the background, and
um it's a more passive viewing experience, whereas a football game,
you're you're it's a more active, engaged thing. And that's
and there's nothing wrong with that. Um. I think that's
the beauty of our sport, the beauty of baseball. That, um,
(34:42):
the beauty of you know when when Wimbledon's on or
the US opens on in tennis, that you just love.
You know, if you're home, you just have it on
in the background, you're doing chores, and then you know,
as a match gets closer, you sit down and watching
the golf, you sit down and watch the end of
the game. You watch the last of the tournament, You
watch that last hour closely. But the rest of the time,
(35:02):
it's more about it's a nice thing to have on you.
You occasionally pay attention somebody, it's a great shot, whatever,
and and I love that about our sport, and that's fine.
I love that about baseball. I love that about tennis.
But I also love those other sports where you really
get into them and you sit there and your your glue.
But our sports not like that, right, right, right, that's
(35:23):
a good that's a good point. You know. I said
that about the match. People were criticizing the match. I said,
you know, it's background TV. I mean, people are going
to sit there and watch it for four hours straight.
They're gonna see, you know, why not look at a
couple see a couple of shots if it's close at
the end, and then they're gonna maybe pay attention. Yeah,
And so Jay Money and mentioned that and and talking
(35:45):
about gambling this week that one of the things they
see with it is that it will keep somebody engaged
through through the full round of golf. Uh. I gotta
ask you, but we got we gotta get okay, let's
let's get it. Let's get in, tod. I got I
gotta take another little break, check in with our our sponsors,
and then I gotta get your thoughts on this whole
(36:06):
gambling thing. Uh. We got to hear what Jeff check
for It has to say about that. And I know
you've got some strong opinions here. We'll be right back,
(36:28):
all right, So, Jeff, this this whole gambling coming to sports,
and it particularly to golf. J Monahan and the PGA
Tour are big into this. You've you've written a lot
about it both times Golf Week, You've talked about a
golf channel. Uh. Your website, you you covered closely on
(36:49):
Jeff check for dot com. Uh, you had it as
the story up the other day. And I saw what
what Monahan said. He said, and I want to know
you to react to this quote here. Uh, once you
start to participate and he's talking about gambling, you you
can eliminate negative bets. Oh my god, I'm like thinking, okay,
(37:10):
like exactly are waiting for you to explain to me
how that's gonna happen. Um, he said, We've done a
ton of work to make certain that that's the position
that we're in. Oh my goodness. Uh what is he
talking about? Well, the obvious concern is that it's our
sport is one that could easily be interfered with by
(37:33):
somebody wanting to Um. Yeah, And I have this conversation
when they first announced it with him, and I got
I got slaughtered in this room of writers and j
and and a few other people we were at the
do the matchplay and I raised my hand like an
idiot and said, you know, because they were unveiling to
live under part campaign at the same time, which was,
(37:56):
you know, bring your phone and live through your phone
and share the thing with everybody. Is that what that means? Yeah,
that's knew what I was. I was looking at that
the other day. That's a nice logo and everything. I
was like, watch on TV and I said, what does
that mean? Many components to living under par Hank, but
one of them is to live vicariously through your phone
(38:16):
at a tour event, share and whatever. That's fine. I
gay people do that now. But my problem has always
been great. I want people to be able to come
out there and take a photo of themselves and do
all that. But we still have, as we saw with
with this young man in Korea, Um, the problem that
people forget to turn off their phone, or somebody could
(38:37):
pretend that they forgot to turn off the ringer. Haven't
magically go off on a player as a backswing who
on Friday afternoon, who they met at four to one
to miss the cut, as a guy's on the A
T T and he and he you know, drop kicks
it out of bounds or something, and and and the
guy wins his bed. And that's been my concern is
(38:58):
that it's a sport easily corrupted that way more than
any other sport. Really, other sports depends on silence so much. Yeah,
I mean, you know, at the football game, I'm sure
there's plenty of fans up in the stands that have
bet against the Patriots are yelling at Tom Brady, but
(39:19):
you know he's not he's not hearing him. But it's
a it's a little different in golf. You've got a
you know, a bet against this guy or this guy's
tied with the other guy that you bet on, and
you know, all of a sudden, you just yell. You know,
you're the man at him, right in the middle of
his swing or whatever. You know, people do how how
do they think they're gonna get rid of this? I mean,
(39:40):
what and how can that not be an issue? Yeah?
It's it's it's it is an issue. So when when
he's talking about getting rid of negative bets, they're trying
to figure out ways too. I think focus on betting
on people the way you've bet on a play NFL
fantasy that that it's more about the of play during
(40:00):
the course of the week, because there are a lot
of people who have fantasies that would be really fun
to sit there with a phone app and you're watching
Tiger on seventeen today and it's it's it's nineteen to
one that he's gonna make that twenty ft tow uh
Frobertie and you go all nineteen to one. I'll bet
(40:22):
a buck on that. No, I mean, I was looking
forward to that. So you think they're gonna you don't
tell you don't think that's gonna happen because of the negative. Well,
the problem I have with it is that when when
they tried to during the match with with with Phil
and Tiger, they tried to put up some numbers and
and so I sat there watching and thinking, Okay, they're
putting up that graphic. I don't know if I would
(40:44):
have had time to place that bet. And that was
a match where it was just two guys on the course.
They were the sole focus. They weren't playing ridiculously fast,
and even as slow as golf was, it was still
hard to really see how you could make those bets
during the course of the action. And so that was
the first time that I kind of went out, I
(41:04):
don't know if this end game betting, Um, it's gonna work.
Now that in the end game betting that does work.
And it's the one thing that I've done through a
an app is is a live tournament odds changing And
now that gets really fun because if you know golf,
(41:27):
I have to tout my one really good win this year.
Uh Moulinari was was three back, four back, three back
in the at bay Hill and he hit it about
twenty on a hole for it was an eagle putt
and I and I looked up and he was fourteen
(41:48):
to one on the app and I went, boom, I'm
betting him, Um, he he could win this golf tournament.
And he did go on to win, and I got
him in fourteen to one, and I bet fifty dollars
and I was very sited. And so if you're watching
a telecast, there are those sort of the algorithms back
up to that, back up to that, backup did did
he make Did he make that eagle punt? Uh? He
(42:10):
did not, but he made it easy birdie. What did
the odds do when he made easy birdie? Well, I
wasn't betting on the birdie. I was betting on the
outcome of the tournament. Yeah, but did did did it
drop down from fourteen to ten? Or yeah he went
he went to five to one within about five minutes
of that. But the algorithms don't always keep up or
they just don't know how you look at a certain
(42:32):
player and a golf course and see what the other
people are doing, whereas a human brain still can take
those things into account and go, well, he's a great closer,
and um, why isn't anybody giving him respect? This is
he's going to get in the clubhouse and and and
you believe me, there were five or six others I
did not win on so the house still one. They
still did fine for the year at Bovada. But it
(42:56):
was fun. That was more fun to me than the
act of sitting and trying to pet on a shot
um where somebody you know, all great, I got a
shot link stat the Tigers nineteen for thirty eight this year.
Outside of you know, I think they're overrating how much
that will be of interest to people, whereas the real
(43:17):
gamblers will enjoy track records, style of golf course players, tendencies,
during you know, early rounds versus lay rounds, things like
that I think will have be fun. And fantasy rosters
and DraftKings and all that stuff is is where they should.
I think that's what he means is they're going to
really focus on the bigger picture bets. I hope, because
(43:40):
I think this idea of trying to have wagering um
on on particular shots is dangerous. It's just dangerous. Yeah. Yeah,
you probably know this because you know so much about
this all this stuff, but I didn't. I learn this
from my friends at visit at Vegas Sports and Information
that network that golf is a number two bet on
(44:01):
sports there is. It's amazing. It's crazy. It's crazy, especially
because you, I'm sure you've gone in um like I have.
You go into the win or one of the sports
books and they have a piece of paper with the
Masters futures or something, or the US Open futures, and
I look at and are you kidding me? Oh? Great,
Ricky one to win the Masters like I can, and
(44:22):
by the way, I can get better odds. It's just
like the Kentucky Derby. Frankly, their futures are stupid too.
On race day, the horse actually makes it to the derby,
you can you can get better odds, and some of
these futures they're just in golf futures are just they're
just dumb. Why I don't, I don't understand how people
place bets on those. You get you can get better
(44:44):
odds after round one or two when the person is
still in the tournament there there at the tournament there,
they may have just had seventy three, but to sixty
six is and all of a sudden they're they're in
the lead. So you you get better odds then than
you do in the future. But people I guess like
those I don't. I don't they don't dangle enough. And
(45:04):
they also the other thing where that I'm amazed that
they when they because I've heard the same numbers and
draft Kings will tell you that golf has moved up
to number two. Um that they don't really offer very
fun prop bets. So those are those are fun for people? Um?
You know what what what somebody's gonna wear something goofy um.
(45:30):
You know, there's all sorts of fun ones before the
majors they put out online and we writers pick them
all up and then you're like well, yeah, I'd like
to bet that. I'd like to bet winning score or
different things, and then you can't when you actually go
to these places. I always go to try to be
miscut on a few people where I figure that the
house doesn't understand that somebody's just not playing very well
(45:52):
just because he's ranked four it in the world. Um,
you know, I used to I used to love the
bet Rory McElroy on a good firm fast links at
the Open Championship that he missed the cut. And I've
got it a couple of times. And I wouldn't make
that bet now because he's gotten smarter and more open
minded about links golf. But at the time that was
(46:14):
a fun bet to make. Um and parlay that into
something else. Yeah, that's good. Um, but I think they're
right to pursue it. I just I'm nervous about how
it could play out in affecting a tournament and then
the kind of the scandal that would ensue on something
like that. That's what I don't know how you know
where they are on all that. So they say they
(46:36):
got it all figured out. So anyway, Yeah, well they've
got I am G and M somebody else MGM, I
think are all involved and what do you and do
you agree? Is that plus all the I mean, I mean,
come on, when you were when you're on a range
of a tour event, um, I mean, wouldn't you be
let me ask this, would you be tempted? Like you're
(46:57):
watching somebody hit balls and you just go yeah, Now
do you feel do you feel? The question they're gonna
have is do other players or caddies or even people
media who are out there decent amount are you crossing
a line watching that? Or is that just is that
just good betting because you're you're observing and you're a
(47:19):
wager on something. Somebody just don't see how it's it's
possible that you know, okay, well, I think it will
happen with players too, But I mean, I don't see
how it's possible for it not to happen with caddies,
A caddy texts and a friend. This guy's got no
chance but against him, I mean, you know, just watching
him on the on the range. Although you know what,
Having said that, I mean, it's it's a tough game
(47:42):
and it's tough to figure Tiger Bogy the first three
holes at Zozo and wins. You know, shoot shoot sixty
four that day, makes nine birdies after boge in the
first three holes. You know, we talked about how he
looked in the at the Skins game at the Zozo
and it wasn't good. And then you know, he goes
out there and he blew him away something. At the
start of the tournament. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and top
(48:05):
picks nobody had him even even on the you know
guys to watch. Yeah, right, I mean, he was not
looking great and he's been rusty. You don't know what
he's been doing. And the last time he took time
off came out there, you know, you're like, oh, well,
this is that's not his thing anymore. But then he
goes and he and he plays beautifully, and um so
(48:27):
it's that's that's why I always sort of giggle and
all the all the golf betting talk, because it's just
the craziest sport to bet on in a in a
lot of ways, before I let you go, let me
let me ask you just a couple of quick questions here,
And because I appreciate you spending all this time with me,
this has been been great. Um, keptca, what what do
(48:48):
you what do you hear about is he gonna have
knee surgeries? He out for the President's couple? What do
you what do you think is gonna happen? Now? A guy,
I gotta think he's done for the year. I mean
just looking at the did you see any of the
video of him playing in Korea and that CJ Cup?
I mean, his follow through looked I'm I'm you know,
I took a few lessons from Don't don't kill Me here, Hank,
(49:11):
But I took a few lessons from Mac O'Grady back
when I was an aspiring golfer. But one of the
things I always enjoyed that Mac. He's a brilliant guy.
He's crazy even brilliant. And he one of the things
he talked about was, you know, the follow through is
like the gymnast landing. It tells you a lot. And
I and I mean, like look at the deckie today.
(49:32):
I mean he was sticking to finish. That's the best
I've ever seen him swing the club and best I've
ever seen him look physically. And Brooks that followed through,
like the left leg you could just see was favoring
it and he kind of looked like an old man
followed through for him and that I saw that and
I went, oh, no, you need to shut it down
(49:53):
because you'll just get into bad abbots and you'll make
it worse. And it's it's the President's Cup team will
survive without you. You're you're just in too much of
the prime of your career to the mess things up.
That's my take. I don't know what. Yeah, yeah, so
that that would open it up for Tiger just to
go uh right in line uh nine, ten, eleven, twelve
(50:15):
and thirteen, um, and then just pick pick the next guys. Uh.
He was at thirteen on the on the list before
you know when they cut the points. Yeah, that would
I think that would go with Rickey though, who has
not been playing a whole lot. Kisner, Oh, I think
he should be playing. Got to get on that team
(50:35):
because he's such a good matchplay player and Royal Melbourne
would be great for him. He's I don't know what
he's gonna he starts this season at the heart as um,
the last fall event. It's when he starts, So I
don't think he's gonna get picked. I think I think no,
I would get the nod over over Fowler myself. But
you know that task Force. That's that's it. It's it's
(50:58):
a buddies club. It's a little bit all right, all right,
I well, we'll see what happens. That's that's That's the
thing I'm most interested in about the President's Cup is
who the picks are because it tells you something about
I think who who Stricker is gonna pick two? Because
they do this whole team picking and captain and assistant
captain and um, you know if if you know he
(51:23):
goes with the task Force guys, then I mean, I
just I think it's the only interesting thing to because
you know, it's to me, it's just a blowout deal.
The US squad is going to be so much better
even without Kepta, but it should be. Yeah, what do
you make of all these left knees? Is that a coincidence?
(51:45):
I don't know. I mean, uh, you know, I mean
you these guys. Is it the golf? You know, everybody
wants to blame the golf swing has the golf swing
speed has increased on an average of I don't know what,
but let's say, you know, five miles An average speed
(52:07):
on the PGA Tour has increased five miles an hour
over the years. Is it five miles an hour, is
it six miles an hour or whatever, but it's it's
somewhere in that range. And now all of a sudden,
this is causing more back problems and more left knee problems.
I just find it hard to believe. I don't know.
(52:28):
I mean, how many guys have had knee issues and
it's always used to be back, shoulder, wrist, elbow. How
many guys were doing box jumps back in the day. Yeah,
I mean some of the things they post on on
social media, what they do in the gym or just
just blow my mind. The squads, the yeah crazy And
(52:49):
yet Rory s throttled back on the gym stuff. I
think Tiger has a little bit, although I was one
of the things I noticed what he looked like he
had put a little weight muscle back on. But I
think we've reached the peak on the gym thing. I
think enough guys are realizing it. But it's still pretty
bizarre to have three top players with the left knee
(53:10):
like this. Um and it's but yeah, well we'll have
to do another pot I've begun working. I'm gonna go
out to the Champions Tour, of it this week and
asked some of the old guys about this pursuit of speed.
I'm I'm fascinating by it. I'm alarmed by it. I'm
intrigued by it. Um, So I think it's I think
(53:32):
it's stupid myself, but it's definitely. I mean, I can't
say how many times I've had a conversation with somebody
lately where they'll tell you their kid is a aspiring golfer,
and all we went and got them some lessons where
we moved them over to this person. You got them,
you know, this much more speed. And I'm sitting there,
(53:55):
you know, tilting my head trying not inviting my lip, um,
trying to you have how do they put how do
they how's the short game? But you know, and but
then the numbers say, that's kind of how you gotta
play the game. Um, at least where at the level
where they have the stats, they're kind of validated by
(54:16):
by bomb and gouge by by launching it out there
and and uh hacking out a ledge and over the
course of the season it might work. It's like back
in the day, everybody's like on par five's laid up
to your favorite yard each. I mean all the statistics,
they get it as close to the green as you can.
I mean, if you know, none of the stats back
(54:38):
up laid up to your favorite yard each. But but
here's the irony. Tiger is the one person who who
is now making the case against this, and I feel
like he sends subliminal messages. I don't know about you,
but when he talks about injuries and the thing and
(54:58):
guys only need to have three or four weeks. To me,
he's saying to j Monahan, that's not good for your
product where we're going. Uh may be wrong, but he's
so on message with it every time that I think
he he means what he says that he doesn't think
it's a good direction for the game. That's a good point.
(55:20):
That's a good point. Fascinating, Yeah, that's a that's a
that's a really really good point. Yeah. We've got so
much to talk about, I mean, anyway, Yeah, well we'll
do the speed one. Yeah all right, Well we'll do
and of course we'll get into the equipment of the
ball and something you always have to talk about. But
we'll do I know, I know, I can't. Well, you're
the first guy I'm calling when it does, so I
appreciate you're being with me. I hope everybody checks out
(55:42):
your website Jeff Shackelberg dot com. Obviously they can see
you on the Golf Channel and you're you're great writing
and Golf Week and on Twitter too at Jeff Shock
and Jeff I appreciate you spend the time with me
on the Hey Canny podcast My It's always fun, but
thank you. Thanks for tuning into the Hankay Podcast. Listen, follow, rate,
(56:05):
and share on iTunes, on the I Heart Radio app,
or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can make
your thoughts and questions heard by emailing the show at
hank Ay Goff at outlook dot com. And you can
also tweet me directly by sending your tweets to at
Hankiney on Twitter d got. The Hanky Podcast is a
(56:49):
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my
heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to the hank Any Podcast, a production of I
Heart Radio. Welcome to the hank Any Podcast. Great to
(00:23):
be with you today. Joining me today is one of
the members of the golf media that I always looked
to for information. He is one of the most in
tune people I know in the world of golf. His website,
Jeff Shackleford dot com it's an absolute go to website.
I am there every single day checking out his stories,
(00:45):
the information, uh, and Jeff has an incredible uh this subtle,
sarcastic sense of humor that I get into as well.
You can follow him on Twitter at Jeff shack It's
g E O F F S H A c UH,
and you can obviously go to his website Jeff Shuckleford
(01:07):
dot com. He's a senior writer for Golf Week and
a Golf Channel contributor. My friend Jeff Shackelford is joining
me now on the Hey Katie Podcast. So, Jeff, thanks
for joining me today. I appreciate it, but always good
to talk off with you. You're my favorite person to
talk golf with, and you probably wouldn't know that because
(01:27):
I'm always like debating you all the time. But I
love uh, and I go to I say this all
the time. You have the best website, Jeff Shackleford dot com.
I go to your website. That's like, you know, I
go to ESPN. Uh, you know, I check out the news,
you know, I uh, but but I always go to
(01:49):
Jeff shuck for dot com. Always go there. So I
appreciate you being on with me. Uh, big news. I
got a few things I want to talk to you about.
I want to get into the the whole TV deal
because you're so tied into the media and everything that's
going on there. I want to talk also a little
bit about this uh gambling deal. Let's coming to the tour.
(02:10):
Get your thoughts on that. I know you've got some
opinions on that, but we gotta start with Tiger Woods
eighties second PGA Tour victory at the Zozo Championship. His
career winning career spanning twenty three years. He ties Sam Sneeze, Mark,
give me your your thoughts. Well, uh, I actually think
(02:31):
most of the people are gonna want to know what
you have to take as a listener of your your pond.
It's been great so far. I've been really enjoying it.
By the way, you you've you've, you've found the medium
very successfully and I'm I'm thrilled for that and I'm
loving the having the pods hit my phone. Um, what
a bizarre week that he's kind of shows up at
(02:52):
the Skins game looking all ragged and uh, kind of
like he hasn't been working on his game, kind of
like what we saw at the championship and and then
starts three over and from there on he's brilliant and
the swing looks sensational, the game looks sensational. He looked
a little I thought a little stiff today on the
(03:13):
Monday finished the morning turnaround was a little bit tough
for I thought that same thing he looked, he looked bigger.
That's a good observation, really good. Yeah, he's just not
a morning guy anymore. And I think that's the moral
of the whole week, is that when he's healthy, he's
(03:35):
going to be great. It's just a matter I can
he hold the body together because we didn't know what
was bothering him. It turns out the knee was bothering him.
And you'd see him get out of the car. I
think at the BMW, you know, he looked like an
old running back when he got out of the car,
you know, need the two legs to turn sideways to
get out of the car. And then he hobbled him
(03:56):
like a fifteen minute drive from the hotel, I do
that after or maybe a five hour drive. So it
was clear the knee was a problem. Now it's not.
He got it fixed, and he just he looked refreshed
and ready to go. And I'm just I'm blown away
by how how well he's playing under pressure. There's no
no moonballs off. Those holes that give him trouble are
(04:20):
at least traditionally gave him trouble, aren't giving him trouble.
It's really those first few holes. It's about warming up,
and he's getting into the round. Really, now, would you say, yeah,
I mean he always had that issue. Well yeah, I
mean there's no doubt about it. Um I thought, well, okay,
back to the Skins game. He played the Skins game
with Rory, had a DECI and and uh and then
(04:42):
um you know himself, and I mean I don't even
remember they see this is the thing. If it's this
is it? Okay right here? Okay, who Rory? Okay? But
but who was the was there four there was just three.
(05:04):
I didn't remember Jason Day see there you go. This
this is the thing. It's I mean, this is something
I stayed up to watch. I don't even remember three
of the players. Um and I you know, because it's
it's Tiger Woods or nothing. But but anyway, he he,
you know, didn't look great. And I you know, so
we were talking about and I said, you know, he's
you know, I'll finish top twenty. Okay, you know something's
(05:25):
Steve asked me. Johnson asked me, what is he gonna finish?
I said, they'll phase top twenty. And and it's like,
because I'm looking at it, I'm thinking, I understand everybody
says this is such a strong field. I mean, I
don't want to write it on the parade, but I'm
just this is just the way it is. There was
thirty one players out of the top fifty, So that's strong.
That makes it. That makes it like a tour championship event.
(05:47):
That's what it is. But but that's that's it's it's
no more than a tour championship. And I don't you know,
tour championships are easier to win for Tiger Woods, and
they always were I mean any time he played in
a short field event, World Golf Championships, Uh, you know, Tiger,
(06:08):
whatever the thing was, you know it, sure what every year,
Uh you know, it doesn't matter. But I just I
just felt like it's less guys that could go off
and have you know, the week of their life. So
I always gave him, uh, you know, a chance. And
then I looked at the course and I and you know,
I did say, I did. I said, he's gonna face
top twenty. I didn't think he was gonna win, but
(06:29):
I did say that this is a golf course based
on the conditions that he just used to eat this
place up and and would win a tournament like this
hands down because of this short field rough you can
play out of, uh, a golf course that had plenty
of room. I understand there's there's tight holes with trees,
(06:51):
but but Jeff, when there's another fairway over there, even
though even if there's trees in between that other fairway,
it doesn't influence him like it does when is out
of bound steaks over there. I'm just you know it
Tellian Gary Woodland mentioned after round he said he always
misses it in the right place and that's what he'll
he'll he'll do. But but when you have soft greens, um,
(07:13):
it just it allows him to He's so good at
control in his distance, he always has been, and he
can hit the ball pin high. The ball is gonna
hit and stop. It's like throwing darts. And I just
remember back to when when he almost wanted Oakmont at
the US Open. You know, finished finished second there, unhealth
Cabara win. But but Tiger played great there and you
(07:37):
know the one round he had seventeen greens, I think
it was Saturday's round. It was, you know, he missed
the eighteenth green, miss the fairway and missed the greens,
the only only green he missed. But I thought, he
can't get the ball close to the hole here because
this is like you got to hit it in a
certain spot. Then it's got to roll over there and
roll over there, and then it might get close. And
when he gets on golf courses where it's it's soft
(07:57):
and you can you're throwing darts. There has never been
a better iron You can say whatever you want about
his game, and people do, but there's never been a
better iron player than Tiger Woods. I don't think no.
And that the one the one bummer of the week
because they didn't have shot link there, so we don't
know what, um, what he did in terms of strokes
(08:19):
gain or proximity of the whole compared to the rest
of the field, And it would have been fun to
see that because it was pretty clear he dominated with
his iron play. The greens were tricky. I watched a
lot of puts take some pretty hard turns at the
whole for people, and and and you know the rule
staff that that sets up the courses does not like
(08:40):
to put holes in spots where they do that. So
those greens were quick despite all the rain, and they
had some some pitch to them and some contour, and
it was impressive how well he handled those as well.
But I think obviously the iron game was just ridiculous
and good for him. I mean I I was, I
just completely fascinated by the fact that he could turn
(09:03):
it on the way he did, looking as rusty as
he did earlier, because you know, he came to part
rush and he was the same way and lethargic and
and something clicked. But but the difference here was obviously
that he just looked better physically. Um, he had an
energy and a smile and a look that said he
(09:25):
was feeling better. Uh and and his knee wasn't bothering him,
and we now realized it was bothering him a lot
more than we realized, right right right, you know, listen,
I I said Tiger is gonna win even when he
first came back from the you know, I don't know
how many comebacks to go this was, but I said,
he's gonna win because he's just he's just so good.
He's got so much, so much talent in there. Uh,
(09:47):
he he has so much experience. The mental stuff. I
didn't believe all that for a second that that was
ever going to be an issue if he got in contention,
and it hasn't been when he's when he's been in contention. Uh,
you know, I mean I remember, well, I'll give you
an example. Marco Merrow wins this year at Tucson at
the Champions Tour event, and Mark hadn't even played for
(10:10):
a week shows up and it's not like Mark's played great.
But but having said that, he's a Hall of Fame
golfer who has a great record with closing when he's
when he one of the best records ever with closing
when he's when he's on the lead on on Sunday,
and Mark wins that tournament. I feel like, you know,
and Mark's is an example, but he's nowhere on the
(10:32):
level of Tiger Woods. Tiger just if he if he
plays and has his week and it'll you know, it'll
be his week. He'll always he'll always be tough to beat.
So he wins his eighties second tournament, he ties UH
Sam Snead. Where do you put that record? I mean,
everybody gives Jack Nicholas the nod as greatest player ever,
(10:55):
greatest golfer ever. I don't know how you I I say,
nobody's ever played golf better than Tiger Woods, but Jack
Nicholas greatest golf ever because he's won eighteen majors. But
where do you how how does uh Sneeze record figure
into all this? Well, I've been fascinated by uh some
of the reactions and discussion about Sneed's record, And I
(11:16):
get it. There was a rain delay day and now
they're in a Monday finished Sunday for US in US
and writers and analysts get a little bit bored. And
I've been a little surprised how many were kind of
trashing Sneed eighty two and and and look, I get it.
There was a crossby. There was eighteen holes that probably
got thrown in because the crosby became a tour event.
(11:39):
Excuse me. Sam Sneed won the A T and T
Pebble Beach National Program. I forget that anyone to win them?
Did you know that, Hank? You want to win them
at a century Tournament of champions as well? Um, and
uh so I've been a little mystified at that. I
get it. Look, some of those events were great, but
Tiger also won a lot of events with no cuts.
(12:00):
He got to fly private, he got to hit a
lot of drives with a driver the size of a
water bellon that Sam would love to have played golf with.
You can go on and on. And I had a
little uncomfortable, a little unseemly, frankly, that people were suddenly
wanting us to be excited about number eighty two and
then kind of diminishing the number eighty two by poking
(12:23):
holes and Sam sneeze record. So I thought, I just
thought that was strange. But it's a it's a sensational record.
It's not the major championship. One. But it's right there
because of what it takes to win tour events, the longevity,
the devotion, the interest and uh, you know, Sam Steed
one quite a few as an older guy, which is
(12:45):
pretty INCREDI incredible to look at what he did in
his forties. And Tiger still could. I don't. I don't
know if he has the motivation to bring it every week. Um,
but he he may, he may find it. Um. And
so I think it's a great record, and I'm glad
it's being played up and hyped and and and and
Tiger the master Showman has set it up beautifully too.
(13:08):
Now turn up at Torry Pines, most likely as his
next official PJ Tour event, with a chance to to
break the record in southern California, which would befitting. No,
it would be uh you know, Okay, no one's won
more than what one major after the age of forty three?
Is that? What is that? What it is? Um? That
(13:29):
sounds right? I think? So Tiger has three to catch
catch Jack. Let me let me ask you this. If
he were to catch Jack Nicholas, um, which is you know,
still a long shot. I think three major, But he
showed it at Augusta, he could do it. And then
of course when he plays like he did this week,
you know, although that's not a major championship condition golf course,
(13:50):
that's not let's not confuse that with And I don't
care what the field was like, it was still a
short field. But still when he plays like this, everybody
you know thinks this is gonna happen. Let's say he
he does catch catch Jack and they they tie at
at eighteen majors. Is this is this the sneed the
all time record, This the sneed record, which which he
(14:10):
would have broken at that point. Is that the tiebreaker?
I think so, yeah, that's a good tiebreaker, and I
hope we have that that problem. He certainly has some
venues coming up that he loves, and you know, he's
a course for course guy, and I think Way puts
a good US Open venue for him. Obviously, Tory Pines
(14:31):
Um is the year after for the U s Open,
So there're there are a couple of US Open venues
that he should he should love Um and and Brittish
he loves you also. I think any British all say
George is unfortunately next year is probably the one that's
a little bit um, not probably up his alley or
(14:53):
anyone's alley. It's kind of kind of funky. But but
if he gets to going there, you never know. He
loves yeah, the links, golf and the win game and
the creativity. It's the best chance for him. I thought
his best chance would usually be where where greens were
a little bit slower. Um, but gush those greens this week,
despite all that rain, which started at six inches and
(15:16):
went to nine inches and then it was ten inches yesterday,
they got a lot of anything over three. I wrote
a little piece for Golf Week. Anything over three and
they can play within a day or two is a miracle.
So um. But they kept their speed, and they were
they were really tricky and and didn't seem to face him.
So I don't know if green speed really anymore. Is
(15:37):
is that big of a deal for him given what
I kind of thought that that was. Why Why were
you concerned about green speed? I just never got the
sense of that super fast greens anymore were his thing,
and that he was a better putter, stroking the ball
a little bit more instead of just starting it. But
you may disagree. Maybe maybe he's better. Gary Woodland is
(15:59):
one of the worst he is on the tour, and
he had a great week this week, just starting the
ball on line and put better than normal, and um,
good for him. I think that's I've never really quite
known what to make of that discussion that the great
putters at my age, great putters always did really well
on fast, tough pola greens. Um, there were where there
(16:21):
was a lot of break, and it may have changed now,
may have changed with the modern putting stroke is better
on super fast greens, I don't know, but Tiger has
a great stroke either way. So yeah, well you know,
to your point, he's he's gotten around Augusta, uh in
about the last honestly probably fifteen years of trying to
(16:44):
be honest with you, at Augusta, he's gotten around there
with two three puts are less twice and and and
one of those was was in two thousand five when
he won the Masters, and then this last year he
had to three pots and one when the Masters. So
so he has trouble getting around there with with less
(17:04):
than two three butts, which I kind of count as
the number that you need to get two or less
to win that that tournament. And if you look at
the statistics usually it will say that's that's the case.
Of course, I count three butts when you're an inch
off the green, and the PGA Tour doesn't count him
that way. But but I think that is a good point.
The one thing that's that's always been underrated about Tiger
(17:26):
is and it maybe not underrated, but it's just something
that sticks out in my mind a lot more than
it does maybe in other people's mind. And it was
on full display at the Zozo Championship. Is his ability
to lag the ball close to the whole to and
and to take stress off of protecting a lead, and
(17:46):
and it's just, you know, he just has tapping after
tapping after tapping, never having a market, never having a
sweat over a three or four footer. It's just it's
an amazing skill that he has. What do you see
when you you look at his golf swing right now?
I mean I thought his swing looked looked looked good.
I mean, he he looks like you know, I actually
(18:08):
like his swing. I liked his swing when he when
he came back, uh you know, with it after the
back surgeries. And I like where his swing is now.
He's playing more three quarter shots, which is a good thing.
Last year, he didn't do as much of that. I
think that you know, whenever he comes back from a break,
his mind has been working and they'll always be something,
(18:33):
you know, coming different. And one of the things that
was different was he played more partial swings and if
you'll notice, his wedge game was a lot better. You know,
his his distance control was was was much much better.
So I yeah, I think it was very good, you know,
I mean, uh, his his short game was a little funny.
(18:55):
He played a lot of ball back in the stance,
lean the chaft forward and you know, a couple of
times the announcers were a little mystified at the shot
that he tried to play, but obviously that was the
one that he's comfortable with. Um. But but I thought
his his his full swing looked good. And you know,
for him, it's not you know, everybody says he needs
to hit the ball affair. He doesn't need to hit
the ball affair. He just needs to hit the ball
(19:16):
not in the you know, middle of the woods or
out of bounds or in the water. That's all he
needs to do. Uh, you know, because he's the best
iron player ever, and he's the best iron player ever
out of the rough too, So it's none of that's
gonna gonna bother him. But if he hits fairways, then
that's a big bonus. But yeah, I thought it was
I thought it was good. I gotta I gotta ask
(19:37):
you about the TV stuff. Well, we'll take a little
we gotta take a little break here from my sponsors. Here.
We'll be right back with Jeff Shackelford on the Hank
Any Podcast. Alright, So, Jeff, big news that came out.
(20:10):
I guess just yesterday about two of my favorites, Peter
Kostas and Gary McCord are done with with CBS. What
what what do you make of that? Well? It, uh,
it really came out of nowhere. Um. I ended up
writing the story for Golf Week. One of our other
(20:32):
writers first heard about it, um and relayed the message
to me, and I made a couple of calls and
within about a half hour CBS on a Saturday morning,
I just send a note to their person in charge
of PR and said yes, and we'll provide you a statement. Wow. Okay,
(20:53):
So that was quick and we put up a story.
And there you go, after all those years to sort
of icons of their broadcasts are gone, and at the
time of year where they don't have much going on
obviously in golf, they shut down and they start again
at Torrey Pines. And it's, uh, it's confounding, frankly, because CBS,
(21:15):
if you know how they are, they're very loyal network.
They're they're not one to run people off. There was
a big deal when they had buyout this summer and
they ran a tribute on their broadcast to a lot
of people who've worked a lot of telecasts, and so
it's not like them to do this so naturally. The sense,
(21:35):
if you you read some of the people analyzing it
is that it feels like it's some sort of hail
Mary to to show the PGA Tour that they are
serious about freshening up their broadcasts. You think that's it.
I mean, I do you think you think there's displeasure
with CBS is broadcast. I do? I do? I think
(21:57):
they Yeah, I think they've gotten a little complacent, and
I think the tour has, uh from what I've heard,
felt that way as well, and a lot of viewers have.
If you go on social media during the tournament, that's
kind of a common theme that they feel, you feel
a little like you're getting the same broadcast that you've
got fifteen years ago. And then when they do up
(22:21):
the production values at the PGA Championship, Uh, it only
irritates people more because they're like, why didn't you do
this every week, which, of course is irrational. It's hard
to do some of the things that networks do during
a major every week. It's expensive, or it's it's just
requires more people, or it's just, um, it's not easy
to have a shot tracer on every shot or um
(22:44):
certain kinds of stats and certain kinds of aerial shots
and things like that. So I think that it's there's
a very good chance that is what was the motive. Obviously,
both have been there a long time, so they were
well paid. What about what about that? Because you know,
with any bump, you know, with any bump, these guys,
these have to be the two highest paid guys they
(23:05):
have either I'm sure obviously Jim Nanson Nick Fellow, but
but let's let's count them out. But the other guys,
I mean, they did cut the two highest paid guys
they have on their crew. Sure, because they've been there
the longest, it would make the most sense that they
were paid well, so it very well could be something
as simple as a cost cutting move. But I don't
(23:25):
feel like with the timing with the tour deal, that
that's the message they would want to be sending. So
my my guess is that it is more about trying
to show the tour that they are um eager to
to to put forward a broadcast that's kind of modern
and technical and with with data on the screen and uh,
(23:47):
you know a lot of the things that people. I mean,
obviously the number one thing they want is a tracer.
They could care less he's announcing now and I've been
a yes. I feel I feel especially for for Gary
because um, people really took a disliking to his style
(24:08):
and as somebody who essentially when I really got into
the game, he was he was really kind of in
his hey day, and he was trying to bring energy
to the broadcast, trying to bring a different voice, and
I I feel for him that in the way people
are so tough on him, Um social media, you just
(24:28):
if they knew how much he knew about the game,
He's forgotten more about the game than most of them have.
And I don't know if television really allowed him to
to show his knowledge enough. Being a sixteenth old tower guy,
you just you're you're almost a traffic cops. You're not really, um,
I mean as at moment you're allowed to show your knowledge.
(24:49):
And and certainly Gary knows a lot about the golf
swing and spent a lot of time talking to a
lot of people searching. UM and so he rubbed a
younger general Asian the wrong way. And I don't really
even know why. It's it's sort of a mystery of me. Um.
I get that he had a stick and they didn't
like a stick, but um, I don't think it's it's uh,
(25:12):
he was a reason that their broadcasts felt stale, nor
did I certainly not Peter Costas either. It's a I
don't I really don't know if the announcers deserved the
blame on that. But it feels to me like that's
kind of what happened here, and it's a cruel business.
TV is that way, you know? I mean, I mean,
John Smalts, I've got we're talking right now. World Series
(25:35):
is on and Joe Buck and John Smalts just get slaughtered.
They get absolutely slaughtered. And if they get anywhere near
criticizing launch angle baseball, some of the modern ways that
baseball is played, which if you've watched the game a
long time, it's just like those of us in golf
who lament the loss of certain shots and certain elements
(25:58):
in the game moving the ball. Um, they get hammered
and they get absolutely awful things said about them. And
people are the geeks, The stat geeks are just vindictive. Um.
And so it's a tough business television, as you know,
being on those those broadcasts people, um, they're almost irrational
(26:21):
and what they expect you to to be able to
provide it in very little short durst. Radio's tough business too,
it is. But as you know, podcasting and radio, UM,
imagine toe it in. The difference in your podcast is
your radio show you are able to you're not interrupted
sometimes by the commercial And that's why people love podcasting
(26:42):
because if it's somebody they enjoy listening to, they get
to hear them finish their thoughts. Gary McCord would be
great on a podcast, and he and peters to do
a podcast because television truncates what um, you want to say.
Sometimes you're right about Gary because he he is not
out and costs too. I mean, Peter Costas has so
(27:03):
much great information, it's incredible. And what he does with
those analyzing those swings on the fly. Let me just
tell you something that's not easy to do. You're not
just gonna march somebody in to do what he does.
I can tell you that much now. And you're trying
to look at a little monitor and it's the sun's out,
and it's larry, and there's people yelling at you, and
there's a director I wanting to know if you're ready
(27:26):
to go, and it's it's not an easy thing to juggle.
So um, So we'll see how how it plays out. Obviously,
they're right in the thick of this whole contract negotiation,
and it's it's pretty easy to conclude that this was
a move Um made to possibly influence Where Where do
you think Where do you think all that's gonna go?
(27:46):
Where do you think all that's gonna go? There's been
all these there's all these rumors out there that the
PGA Tour is going to start their own station, you know,
like the NFL, MLB, NBA? What what what? What do
you think? What do you think is gonna happen? I
think that's not a good idea, but I think it's possible.
(28:08):
But my sense is that they'll ultimately go with a
model of multiple networks, because it's good to have multiple networks,
as the NFL can tell you, And but it has
to be done the right way. I mean, look at
you know, back to baseball, there on TBS and MLB
Network and um Fox Sports one sometimes and then sometimes Fox,
(28:29):
and it's a little hard to find them. And I
don't know how much the tour values the ease of
finding a channel. I certainly think it's important, especially golf
viewer demographic of viewers is a little bit older and
and still is mostly watching cable. And there's something really
and I'm biased here obviously because I'm on the Golf
(28:50):
channel sometimes, but there's something really valuable about knowing every
Thursday and Friday where to find the tour and on
the weekend mornings, it's very valuable to know they're gonna
have the leading coverage and then you know it's CBS
or NBC. And I I don't know when they get
down to a negotiation like this, and the and and
the money is out there and there's people trying to
(29:12):
get in on it, whether they chase the money or
they there's somebody in the room that says, you know,
pretty great to have these these very simple the simple
menu of how to find our product, and then you're
throwing streaming. I don't I don't envy the Tours position
in the sense of we're still not sure how the
(29:33):
whole streaming thing will work for sports, So I feel
like they're just still a little early um on on
sensing how it's all gonna play out, So that part
of their equations kind of tricky for them. But I
think ultimately they're going to try to have h MBC, NBC,
Golf Channel, CBS and whoever their cable partner is, maybe
(29:56):
it's Golf Channel, UM and ESPN, AB see AH as
their as their partners, and try to bring in one
more network like that. And then obviously when you bring
in ABC and ESPN, you bring in maybe a few
more tournaments that finished on the on the network on
ABC instead of cable, and then you bring in espns
(30:18):
ability to get people interested in what you do, you know,
showing highlights and interviewing your athletes, and it's something they
kind of lost when they moved away from ESPN and
A lot of us criticized at the time, like what
are they thinking? And I think they want to get
a little that back. Oh it's it's a good point.
(30:39):
I mean, at the end of the day, it will
come down to who you know, it just you think
it just comes down to, you know, what's the biggest
dollar amount they can they can pile together. Fear that
and I think that's a mistake because I don't think
you're ever gonna well, one, their model is very successful
and the thing you need to you wonder how they
(31:01):
look at this, But most of these corporations that sponsor
tour against ultimately still on eyeballs and being on Amazon
Prime streaming, Um, they may not get those numbers. And
so network television for sports still is very powerful, and
(31:23):
I hope they value that. I don't. I really don't
think that will ever change. It may, but I don't
think it will. So how they weigh all that is
is really interesting. But these these these companies that spent
a lot of money, and they spend a lot of
money to sponsor tour event. I think they're ultimately going
to ask that question, uh, you know, why is my
(31:44):
tournament on? Or or they could potentially ask questions why
am I on the new Turner Golf network that used
to be headline news when you know that tournament gets
to be on NBC and Golf Channel. So they have
some things like that to weigh with the sponsors. It's
a tough, a tough thing. I my My biggest concern
(32:07):
is do they think of it from the viewer perspective?
And you look at somebody like Baseball's contract right now,
and it's kind of discombobulated, weird thing with channels and
you know, this year's Turner is doing the the National
League and next year they're the American League and uh
and Fox has been kind of a mess on that
(32:27):
Joe Buck has to leave in the middle of a
series to go do a Thursday night game. You know,
those little things add up to me as a viewer.
But again, I'm not I'm not the millennial viewer that
is watching things on YouTube and cutting the cable and
streaming things. So that's who they're trying to be aware
of as well. Right yeah, well, okay, so what about
(32:49):
that that this streaming, this whole streaming thing has it's
created a lot of it seems like it's it's create
it's in the process of creating a lot of new
jobs for people because I I, you know, go online
to you know, pg A Live or whatever it's called,
and you know, of course US Open and Masters and
you know, featured holes and featured groups and this and that,
(33:11):
and there's a lot of you know, voices that are
popping up. I what, what's the what's the future on
this whole streaming thing. I think they mentioned something maybe
every player is gonna you know eventually or what. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're very excited about some technology that the tour has developed.
(33:32):
I don't understand it, but I know there are markets
in the world where this probably will matter. But they
can basically record every shot played at every tournament. And um,
so if you're in Japan and you're a fan of
Hideki mantza Yama and he's playing at the Players next year,
you'll be able to see every shot he plays, and
(33:54):
at the end of the day, there will be an
algorithm that pieces it all together. And I guess where philosophically,
I am mystified by that approach. Um is that that
to me? Yeah, you sit down to watch a football game,
you sit down and watch a basketball game, because you
know it's gonna those sports are gonna be a certain
length of time. Golf and baseball are maybe like tennis
(34:19):
as well. I think tennis fits in this category where
there's sports you enjoy having on in the background, and
um it's a more passive viewing experience, whereas a football game,
you're you're it's a more active, engaged thing. And that's
and there's nothing wrong with that. Um. I think that's
the beauty of our sport, the beauty of baseball. That, um,
(34:42):
the beauty of you know when when Wimbledon's on or
the US opens on in tennis, that you just love.
You know, if you're home, you just have it on
in the background, you're doing chores, and then you know,
as a match gets closer, you sit down and watching
the golf, you sit down and watch the end of
the game. You watch the last of the tournament, You
watch that last hour closely. But the rest of the time,
(35:02):
it's more about it's a nice thing to have on you.
You occasionally pay attention somebody, it's a great shot, whatever,
and and I love that about our sport, and that's fine.
I love that about baseball. I love that about tennis.
But I also love those other sports where you really
get into them and you sit there and your your glue.
But our sports not like that, right, right, right, that's
(35:23):
a good that's a good point. You know. I said
that about the match. People were criticizing the match. I said,
you know, it's background TV. I mean, people are going
to sit there and watch it for four hours straight.
They're gonna see, you know, why not look at a
couple see a couple of shots if it's close at
the end, and then they're gonna maybe pay attention. Yeah,
And so Jay Money and mentioned that and and talking
(35:45):
about gambling this week that one of the things they
see with it is that it will keep somebody engaged
through through the full round of golf. Uh. I gotta
ask you, but we got we gotta get okay, let's
let's get it. Let's get in, tod. I got I
gotta take another little break, check in with our our sponsors,
and then I gotta get your thoughts on this whole
(36:06):
gambling thing. Uh. We got to hear what Jeff check
for It has to say about that. And I know
you've got some strong opinions here. We'll be right back,
(36:28):
all right, So, Jeff, this this whole gambling coming to sports,
and it particularly to golf. J Monahan and the PGA
Tour are big into this. You've you've written a lot
about it both times Golf Week, You've talked about a
golf channel. Uh. Your website, you you covered closely on
(36:49):
Jeff check for dot com. Uh, you had it as
the story up the other day. And I saw what
what Monahan said. He said, and I want to know
you to react to this quote here. Uh, once you
start to participate and he's talking about gambling, you you
can eliminate negative bets. Oh my god, I'm like thinking, okay,
(37:10):
like exactly are waiting for you to explain to me
how that's gonna happen. Um, he said, We've done a
ton of work to make certain that that's the position
that we're in. Oh my goodness. Uh what is he
talking about? Well, the obvious concern is that it's our
sport is one that could easily be interfered with by
(37:33):
somebody wanting to Um. Yeah, And I have this conversation
when they first announced it with him, and I got
I got slaughtered in this room of writers and j
and and a few other people we were at the
do the matchplay and I raised my hand like an
idiot and said, you know, because they were unveiling to
live under part campaign at the same time, which was,
(37:56):
you know, bring your phone and live through your phone
and share the thing with everybody. Is that what that means? Yeah,
that's knew what I was. I was looking at that
the other day. That's a nice logo and everything. I
was like, watch on TV and I said, what does
that mean? Many components to living under par Hank, but
one of them is to live vicariously through your phone
(38:16):
at a tour event, share and whatever. That's fine. I
gay people do that now. But my problem has always
been great. I want people to be able to come
out there and take a photo of themselves and do
all that. But we still have, as we saw with
with this young man in Korea, Um, the problem that
people forget to turn off their phone, or somebody could
(38:37):
pretend that they forgot to turn off the ringer. Haven't
magically go off on a player as a backswing who
on Friday afternoon, who they met at four to one
to miss the cut, as a guy's on the A
T T and he and he you know, drop kicks
it out of bounds or something, and and and the
guy wins his bed. And that's been my concern is
(38:58):
that it's a sport easily corrupted that way more than
any other sport. Really, other sports depends on silence so much. Yeah,
I mean, you know, at the football game, I'm sure
there's plenty of fans up in the stands that have
bet against the Patriots are yelling at Tom Brady, but
(39:19):
you know he's not he's not hearing him. But it's
a it's a little different in golf. You've got a
you know, a bet against this guy or this guy's
tied with the other guy that you bet on, and
you know, all of a sudden, you just yell. You know,
you're the man at him, right in the middle of
his swing or whatever. You know, people do how how
do they think they're gonna get rid of this? I mean,
(39:40):
what and how can that not be an issue? Yeah?
It's it's it's it is an issue. So when when
he's talking about getting rid of negative bets, they're trying
to figure out ways too. I think focus on betting
on people the way you've bet on a play NFL
fantasy that that it's more about the of play during
(40:00):
the course of the week, because there are a lot
of people who have fantasies that would be really fun
to sit there with a phone app and you're watching
Tiger on seventeen today and it's it's it's nineteen to
one that he's gonna make that twenty ft tow uh
Frobertie and you go all nineteen to one. I'll bet
(40:22):
a buck on that. No, I mean, I was looking
forward to that. So you think they're gonna you don't
tell you don't think that's gonna happen because of the negative. Well,
the problem I have with it is that when when
they tried to during the match with with with Phil
and Tiger, they tried to put up some numbers and
and so I sat there watching and thinking, Okay, they're
putting up that graphic. I don't know if I would
(40:44):
have had time to place that bet. And that was
a match where it was just two guys on the course.
They were the sole focus. They weren't playing ridiculously fast,
and even as slow as golf was, it was still
hard to really see how you could make those bets
during the course of the action. And so that was
the first time that I kind of went out, I
(41:04):
don't know if this end game betting, Um, it's gonna work.
Now that in the end game betting that does work.
And it's the one thing that I've done through a
an app is is a live tournament odds changing And
now that gets really fun because if you know golf,
(41:27):
I have to tout my one really good win this year.
Uh Moulinari was was three back, four back, three back
in the at bay Hill and he hit it about
twenty on a hole for it was an eagle putt
and I and I looked up and he was fourteen
(41:48):
to one on the app and I went, boom, I'm
betting him, Um, he he could win this golf tournament.
And he did go on to win, and I got
him in fourteen to one, and I bet fifty dollars
and I was very sited. And so if you're watching
a telecast, there are those sort of the algorithms back
up to that, back up to that, backup did did
he make Did he make that eagle punt? Uh? He
(42:10):
did not, but he made it easy birdie. What did
the odds do when he made easy birdie? Well, I
wasn't betting on the birdie. I was betting on the
outcome of the tournament. Yeah, but did did did it
drop down from fourteen to ten? Or yeah he went
he went to five to one within about five minutes
of that. But the algorithms don't always keep up or
they just don't know how you look at a certain
(42:32):
player and a golf course and see what the other
people are doing, whereas a human brain still can take
those things into account and go, well, he's a great closer,
and um, why isn't anybody giving him respect? This is
he's going to get in the clubhouse and and and
you believe me, there were five or six others I
did not win on so the house still one. They
still did fine for the year at Bovada. But it
(42:56):
was fun. That was more fun to me than the
act of sitting and trying to pet on a shot
um where somebody you know, all great, I got a
shot link stat the Tigers nineteen for thirty eight this year.
Outside of you know, I think they're overrating how much
that will be of interest to people, whereas the real
(43:17):
gamblers will enjoy track records, style of golf course players, tendencies,
during you know, early rounds versus lay rounds, things like
that I think will have be fun. And fantasy rosters
and DraftKings and all that stuff is is where they should.
I think that's what he means is they're going to
really focus on the bigger picture bets. I hope, because
(43:40):
I think this idea of trying to have wagering um
on on particular shots is dangerous. It's just dangerous. Yeah. Yeah,
you probably know this because you know so much about
this all this stuff, but I didn't. I learn this
from my friends at visit at Vegas Sports and Information
that network that golf is a number two bet on
(44:01):
sports there is. It's amazing. It's crazy. It's crazy, especially
because you, I'm sure you've gone in um like I have.
You go into the win or one of the sports
books and they have a piece of paper with the
Masters futures or something, or the US Open futures, and
I look at and are you kidding me? Oh? Great,
Ricky one to win the Masters like I can, and
(44:22):
by the way, I can get better odds. It's just
like the Kentucky Derby. Frankly, their futures are stupid too.
On race day, the horse actually makes it to the derby,
you can you can get better odds, and some of
these futures they're just in golf futures are just they're
just dumb. Why I don't, I don't understand how people
place bets on those. You get you can get better
(44:44):
odds after round one or two when the person is
still in the tournament there there at the tournament there,
they may have just had seventy three, but to sixty
six is and all of a sudden they're they're in
the lead. So you you get better odds then than
you do in the future. But people I guess like
those I don't. I don't they don't dangle enough. And
(45:04):
they also the other thing where that I'm amazed that
they when they because I've heard the same numbers and
draft Kings will tell you that golf has moved up
to number two. Um that they don't really offer very
fun prop bets. So those are those are fun for people? Um?
You know what what what somebody's gonna wear something goofy um.
(45:30):
You know, there's all sorts of fun ones before the
majors they put out online and we writers pick them
all up and then you're like well, yeah, I'd like
to bet that. I'd like to bet winning score or
different things, and then you can't when you actually go
to these places. I always go to try to be
miscut on a few people where I figure that the
house doesn't understand that somebody's just not playing very well
(45:52):
just because he's ranked four it in the world. Um,
you know, I used to I used to love the
bet Rory McElroy on a good firm fast links at
the Open Championship that he missed the cut. And I've
got it a couple of times. And I wouldn't make
that bet now because he's gotten smarter and more open
minded about links golf. But at the time that was
(46:14):
a fun bet to make. Um and parlay that into
something else. Yeah, that's good. Um, but I think they're
right to pursue it. I just I'm nervous about how
it could play out in affecting a tournament and then
the kind of the scandal that would ensue on something
like that. That's what I don't know how you know
where they are on all that. So they say they
(46:36):
got it all figured out. So anyway, Yeah, well they've
got I am G and M somebody else MGM, I
think are all involved and what do you and do
you agree? Is that plus all the I mean, I mean,
come on, when you were when you're on a range
of a tour event, um, I mean, wouldn't you be
let me ask this, would you be tempted? Like you're
(46:57):
watching somebody hit balls and you just go yeah, Now
do you feel do you feel? The question they're gonna
have is do other players or caddies or even people
media who are out there decent amount are you crossing
a line watching that? Or is that just is that
just good betting because you're you're observing and you're a
(47:19):
wager on something. Somebody just don't see how it's it's
possible that you know, okay, well, I think it will
happen with players too, But I mean, I don't see
how it's possible for it not to happen with caddies,
A caddy texts and a friend. This guy's got no
chance but against him, I mean, you know, just watching
him on the on the range. Although you know what,
Having said that, I mean, it's it's a tough game
(47:42):
and it's tough to figure Tiger Bogy the first three
holes at Zozo and wins. You know, shoot shoot sixty
four that day, makes nine birdies after boge in the
first three holes. You know, we talked about how he
looked in the at the Skins game at the Zozo
and it wasn't good. And then you know, he goes
out there and he blew him away something. At the
start of the tournament. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and top
(48:05):
picks nobody had him even even on the you know
guys to watch. Yeah, right, I mean, he was not
looking great and he's been rusty. You don't know what
he's been doing. And the last time he took time
off came out there, you know, you're like, oh, well,
this is that's not his thing anymore. But then he
goes and he and he plays beautifully, and um so
(48:27):
it's that's that's why I always sort of giggle and
all the all the golf betting talk, because it's just
the craziest sport to bet on in a in a
lot of ways, before I let you go, let me
let me ask you just a couple of quick questions here,
And because I appreciate you spending all this time with me,
this has been been great. Um, keptca, what what do
(48:48):
you what do you hear about is he gonna have
knee surgeries? He out for the President's couple? What do
you what do you think is gonna happen? Now? A guy,
I gotta think he's done for the year. I mean
just looking at the did you see any of the
video of him playing in Korea and that CJ Cup?
I mean, his follow through looked I'm I'm you know,
I took a few lessons from Don't don't kill Me here, Hank,
(49:11):
But I took a few lessons from Mac O'Grady back
when I was an aspiring golfer. But one of the
things I always enjoyed that Mac. He's a brilliant guy.
He's crazy even brilliant. And he one of the things
he talked about was, you know, the follow through is
like the gymnast landing. It tells you a lot. And
I and I mean, like look at the deckie today.
(49:32):
I mean he was sticking to finish. That's the best
I've ever seen him swing the club and best I've
ever seen him look physically. And Brooks that followed through,
like the left leg you could just see was favoring
it and he kind of looked like an old man
followed through for him and that I saw that and
I went, oh, no, you need to shut it down
(49:53):
because you'll just get into bad abbots and you'll make
it worse. And it's it's the President's Cup team will
survive without you. You're you're just in too much of
the prime of your career to the mess things up.
That's my take. I don't know what. Yeah, yeah, so
that that would open it up for Tiger just to
go uh right in line uh nine, ten, eleven, twelve
(50:15):
and thirteen, um, and then just pick pick the next guys. Uh.
He was at thirteen on the on the list before
you know when they cut the points. Yeah, that would
I think that would go with Rickey though, who has
not been playing a whole lot. Kisner, Oh, I think
he should be playing. Got to get on that team
(50:35):
because he's such a good matchplay player and Royal Melbourne
would be great for him. He's I don't know what
he's gonna he starts this season at the heart as um,
the last fall event. It's when he starts, So I
don't think he's gonna get picked. I think I think no,
I would get the nod over over Fowler myself. But
you know that task Force. That's that's it. It's it's
(50:58):
a buddies club. It's a little bit all right, all right,
I well, we'll see what happens. That's that's That's the
thing I'm most interested in about the President's Cup is
who the picks are because it tells you something about
I think who who Stricker is gonna pick two? Because
they do this whole team picking and captain and assistant
captain and um, you know if if you know he
(51:23):
goes with the task Force guys, then I mean, I
just I think it's the only interesting thing to because
you know, it's to me, it's just a blowout deal.
The US squad is going to be so much better
even without Kepta, but it should be. Yeah, what do
you make of all these left knees? Is that a coincidence?
(51:45):
I don't know. I mean, uh, you know, I mean
you these guys. Is it the golf? You know, everybody
wants to blame the golf swing has the golf swing
speed has increased on an average of I don't know what,
but let's say, you know, five miles An average speed
(52:07):
on the PGA Tour has increased five miles an hour
over the years. Is it five miles an hour, is
it six miles an hour or whatever, but it's it's
somewhere in that range. And now all of a sudden,
this is causing more back problems and more left knee problems.
I just find it hard to believe. I don't know.
(52:28):
I mean, how many guys have had knee issues and
it's always used to be back, shoulder, wrist, elbow. How
many guys were doing box jumps back in the day. Yeah,
I mean some of the things they post on on
social media, what they do in the gym or just
just blow my mind. The squads, the yeah crazy And
(52:49):
yet Rory s throttled back on the gym stuff. I
think Tiger has a little bit, although I was one
of the things I noticed what he looked like he
had put a little weight muscle back on. But I
think we've reached the peak on the gym thing. I
think enough guys are realizing it. But it's still pretty
bizarre to have three top players with the left knee
(53:10):
like this. Um and it's but yeah, well we'll have
to do another pot I've begun working. I'm gonna go
out to the Champions Tour, of it this week and
asked some of the old guys about this pursuit of speed.
I'm I'm fascinating by it. I'm alarmed by it. I'm
intrigued by it. Um, So I think it's I think
(53:32):
it's stupid myself, but it's definitely. I mean, I can't
say how many times I've had a conversation with somebody
lately where they'll tell you their kid is a aspiring golfer,
and all we went and got them some lessons where
we moved them over to this person. You got them,
you know, this much more speed. And I'm sitting there,
(53:55):
you know, tilting my head trying not inviting my lip, um,
trying to you have how do they put how do
they how's the short game? But you know, and but
then the numbers say, that's kind of how you gotta
play the game. Um, at least where at the level
where they have the stats, they're kind of validated by
(54:16):
by bomb and gouge by by launching it out there
and and uh hacking out a ledge and over the
course of the season it might work. It's like back
in the day, everybody's like on par five's laid up
to your favorite yard each. I mean all the statistics,
they get it as close to the green as you can.
I mean, if you know, none of the stats back
(54:38):
up laid up to your favorite yard each. But but
here's the irony. Tiger is the one person who who
is now making the case against this, and I feel
like he sends subliminal messages. I don't know about you,
but when he talks about injuries and the thing and
(54:58):
guys only need to have three or four weeks. To me,
he's saying to j Monahan, that's not good for your
product where we're going. Uh may be wrong, but he's
so on message with it every time that I think
he he means what he says that he doesn't think
it's a good direction for the game. That's a good point.
(55:20):
That's a good point. Fascinating, Yeah, that's a that's a
that's a really really good point. Yeah. We've got so
much to talk about, I mean, anyway, Yeah, well we'll
do the speed one. Yeah all right, Well we'll do
and of course we'll get into the equipment of the
ball and something you always have to talk about. But
we'll do I know, I know, I can't. Well, you're
the first guy I'm calling when it does, so I
appreciate you're being with me. I hope everybody checks out
(55:42):
your website Jeff Shackelberg dot com. Obviously they can see
you on the Golf Channel and you're you're great writing
and Golf Week and on Twitter too at Jeff Shock
and Jeff I appreciate you spend the time with me
on the Hey Canny podcast My It's always fun, but
thank you. Thanks for tuning into the Hankay Podcast. Listen, follow, rate,
(56:05):
and share on iTunes, on the I Heart Radio app,
or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can make
your thoughts and questions heard by emailing the show at
hank Ay Goff at outlook dot com. And you can
also tweet me directly by sending your tweets to at
Hankiney on Twitter d got. The Hanky Podcast is a
(56:49):
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my
heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
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