September 24, 2025 • 27 mins
Bryan Kohberger has begun serving his sentence at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution, a prison known for its unforgiving conditions. Hear an inside look at his daily life at IMSI, the challenges he faces, and what his future behind bars may hold.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
To be sent to MZ, you have to commit the worst,
the worst crimes in Idaho.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He's holding on that anchor and as things got more chaotic,
what do you do? You go back to your anchor more.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
He does have a target on his back. One hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
This is the Idaho Massacre. A production of KAT Studios
and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode six, Behind Bars. I'm Courtney Armstrong,
a producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leideger, Gabriel Castillo,
and Alison Bankston. On July twenty third, twenty twenty five,
(00:48):
Brian Coberger officially became inmate number one six three two
one four at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution in Kuna, Idaho.
It's a notorious facility that lands it on Security Journal
America's twenty twenty four list of the worst prisons in
(01:09):
the United States. It's built to contain the state's most
violent and unpredictable offenders. This prison has a reputation for
relentless conditions, solitary confinement, overcrowding, and frequent lockdowns inside. Inmates
have few opportunities for social interaction, education, or rehabilitation. The
(01:32):
facility has also been criticized as an environment that often
breeds severe behavioral issues for harsh treatment and lack of
adequate mental health care. Reports of inmate on inmate violence
are common, and allegations of excessive force by correctional officers
continue to hang over the institution's legacy. It's a place
(01:54):
where survival is a daily struggle. To help us understand
what life behind these walls will really be like for
Brian Kobecker, we turn to bail bondsman Kevin Corson, a
man who knows the inner workings of this infamous facility.
He's joined by a KAT Studios producer, Alison Bankston.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
If you can tell me about your background, what you
do with your bail company, how you related to the prison.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I've been doing this for about ten years and I
love it. And we have a lot of people that
get sent to prison. Obviously, the clients that we work
with and we hear back from them.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
You know a lot about the conditions.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And stuff like that that we hear about, and you
know just kind of what it's like there.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Well, can you tell me about the Idaho Maximum Security
Institution for someone who's never been there, can you paint
kind of a very detailed picture of it, walk me
through it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So it was constructed in nineteen eighty nine. It is
currently set up to house roughly the five hundred and
thirty prisoners. So when you pull up to the South
Boise Prison Complex where IMSI, the Maximum Security Institution is housed,
it's seven different buildings that you're you're kind of pulling
(03:16):
up to there, and it ranges from alternative placement to
work release, to a women's prison, to a general prison,
to community and reintroducement facilities. And the Maximum Security Institution
is one of seven of those buildings out there, and
(03:37):
it is the one with double fencing around it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
It's got razor wire.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It has electronic monitoring on the outside. It has twenty
four hour guards on the outside that are armed fully
watching the perimeter at any given time. To be sent
to MZ, you have to either commit murder or a rape,
or you know, several different things stacking up really extreme
(04:04):
cases of drug trafficking and stuff like that. Definitely the
worst of the worst crimes in Idaho, not just not
just a theft or beating somebody up and stuff like that,
or aggravated assault, or it's gonna be somebody that they
see as a high risk for reoffense, or they have
an entire lifetime a rap sheet of this and there's
(04:27):
just no turning this person around. So everybody in IMSI
is under very strict housing, but not everybody has the
twenty three hour a day rule. There are some inmates
that are like in close custody, that are able to
have more freedom within the facility and be housed with
(04:49):
each other, eat their meals somewhat normally, not in their
cell for the rest of their life.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
And how about Brian Colberger, where is he housed? What
is his custody situation?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Like Coberger's now housed on J Block. J Block is
as secure as it gets.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
It's very bare bones.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
There's only the stuff you need. It's not a comfy bed,
it's not a comfy toilet to sit on. It's a
dirty sink and a slot for your food to come
through for every meal that.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
You're gonna eat.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
J Block is where the death row inmates are housed,
as well as the max of the max prisoners are kept.
So there's a section for death row and there's also
a section for people that are up there with that
security level but not on death row, and they eat
in their cells every meal or however long they're there.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
What is life like in these cells? What do these
inmates do for entertainment?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
You don't have access to a TV in the cell.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You can get an iPad and you can come out
into the open area outside of the cell, or one
hour a.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Day that you're allowed out.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
You can either go exercise, you can buy a tablet
and have access to visit people on that limited access
to the internet, limited access to TV shows, but you're
only allowed an hour out a day, So you better
choose wisely what you want to do. When you're watching
this iPad, you're going to be in a cage in
the middle of this room, and so you can't just
(06:24):
walk around with it. You can't bring it back to
your cell.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I'm intrigued what you said about the tablets. So I
think a lot of people so they can't bring the
tablets into their cells. No, because I think when I
first read that he had a tablet and maybe get
a TV, I'm thinking, Oh, he's just gonna watch movies
all day in his cell and be entertained. But so
I think that's a good distinction, is that they're only
allowed one hour and they can play with their tablet.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Then essentially yep, one hour a day tablet visitation, exercise,
watching a show on the tablet, watching you know, limited
internet and books. But other than that, that other twenty
three hours a day you're staring at a wall.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
Do you know what kind of like TV shows they
have access to and what websites they can go on.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So the websites are mainly going to be informational. If
an inmate wants to appeal their case, they have access
to stuff like that, Like I said, just purely informational.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
No Facebook.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
As far as the TV shows, it's going to be
nothing of violence, nothing that kind of pertains to why
they're there, Nothing that they can sort of enjoy.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Right, he gets to shower every other day.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
It's kind of odd to think about, but that sucks.
But that's where you are, and it's pretty much the
same for the rest of the inmates.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
One thing that really stood out to me is, you know,
there's been this document dump and we're kind of learning
some things about what his life was like at the
Leita County Jail. I guess he was known for taking
like hour showers and he would just sit in there
and you know, wash his hands aggressively all the time.
That's not something he could do at IMSI. It sounds like, so.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
He does have access to a sink, but you know,
it sounds like he's kind of a germophobe and needing
to wash the hands all the time, and he's kind
of maybe a little bit ocd about stuff. And he's
gonna probably not have a lot of soap that they're
gonna be providing him all the time. That's kind of
(08:31):
a luxury as far as he's doing it. But yeah,
he does have access to a sink, and the shower
thing probably really bugs him every other day.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Do you know anything about the food in there, like
the fact that he's, you know, a very strict vegan.
What could he be seen, how could he how could
the rest of his life look from from that standpoint?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
The dietary requirements for an individual, whether they be vegan vegetarian,
the prison does accommodate, and they do have certain menus
that they are able to give the inmates if you
get too picky, though it's clearly says on the website
we're not gonna jump through hoops for you, but they
do provide what they're required to as far as dietary restrictions.
(09:16):
And yeah, I actually have a menu right here for
m Z.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
I'm so curious. Yes, please share.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I mean it's not a bad menu.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Biscuits and gravy for breakfast, peanut butter pancakes another day,
French toast, coffee cake, pumpkin bread.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
And this is stuff that not only the.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Close custody people are getting, but also on J block
death row. And you know the worst of the worst there,
all the way down to lower level. Day two of
the month, you're gonna get mac and cheese, you know,
day six, pizza, barbecue, chicken, chili, beef, tacos, meat loaf.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So it doesn't sound very bad.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
You know, there's visitation there, in person visitation, but it's
very limited. It's very strict as far as who can go.
There's a whole application process for somebody coming to visit
an inmate there, and Coberger's days will be Thursday, Friday,
Saturday and Sunday that he's limited to.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Oh wow, so yeah, actually has quite a few days
for visitors to show.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Up, correct, But it all has to be approved and
it's not you know, the prison system, they're liable for.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
These people's safety.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
They have to provide food, water, shelter, and beyond that,
a limited amount of exercise. If the prisoner is, you know,
behaving well, they can do that. As far as visiting,
they can easily deny people coming or even video.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Some of the people that you work with, they come
back to you and they tell you what IMSI is like,
What are some of the stories they've shared with you
about their experiences there.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
The status of the living situation there has been kind
of a contentious issue with the Department of Correction here.
There's been many complaints about the living conditions, the excessive
use of wars, the excessive use of solitary confinement for
(11:20):
inmates that you know, the stories are they did nothing
wrong and it's been investigated and there's been a couple
of lawsuits about it against the Department of Correction here.
And it's not a nice place. It's not clean. Coburger
is going to hate that. The vents, We've all heard
about PCs being shoved into the vents and the event
(11:41):
system goes around to the entire place. I have heard
about people communicating through vents from clients and inmates urinating
on the floor, and it's just kind of a constant.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Game of cleanup there.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And these people have nothing left to lose, you know,
they're already being put in solitary and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Where can you do?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And it's a very very dark place.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. On July twenty third, twenty twenty five, Brian
Coberger began the rest of his existence inside the Idaho
Maximum Security Institution after being sentenced to four consecutive life
(12:30):
terms for the brutal murders of Madison Mogen, Kaylie Gonsalvez,
Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Shapin. Known as IMSI, this facility
is reserved for Idaho's most violent and dangerous inmates. It's
a place that has garnered a reputation for its harsh,
hell like conditions, overcrowding, extended lockdowns, and criticism over the
(12:52):
poor treatment of inmates. For many life at IMSI is isolating, grueling,
and relentless. Now that's the world Brian Coberger is facing
every single day, and it seems he's struggling to adapt.
Reports indicate he's been firing off complaint after complaint to
prison staff, detailing his discontent with his new reality. Here's
(13:16):
Stephanie Laideker with crime analyst Body Movin breaking down Coberger's
latest prison quarrels and what they might reveal about him.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
This is why I'm calling him Brian Karenberger. His handwriting
is literally the worst thing ever. But I'm going to
read them to you. You're going to get so crazy.
Just by the way, trigger alert. This is going to
make everybody nuts. I feel so enraged right now, and
that's a rare feeling for me. I'm not really the
enraged one, but you really know, you're very level headed.
This was dated on July twenty seventh, and he was
(13:48):
still in medical on the twenty seventh. Okay, so we
need to keep all that in mind. Okay. So this
is written on the twenty seventh, and he says, I
need access to the JPay system to act SIS and
complete an order created on I think it's or crafted
on a full commissary menu.
Speaker 7 (14:07):
Common is hungary. This clown is hungry. He's just exhausted
and hungry from killing people. This guy wants his dinner
and his lunch now.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
When attempting to access JP, I am given an error
that I am not set up in the system at
the Sea Block. Again, he's in medical at this time. Okay,
at the Sea Block, Kiosk may I temporarily moved in
the system to do so. Thank you for your assistance.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
So that's all.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
That's one complaint, Okay. The next one is, Okay, I
did not receive my lunch on seven thirty, twenty twenty
five despite inquiring. Although I understand that the something became hectic,
it was never communicated to me that I would be
unable to receive a new bag. The next shift was
not aware of this either. I wish to access as
(15:00):
I have a right to this meal, thank you, as
I have kindergarten.
Speaker 7 (15:05):
Is he actually asking for a middle school lunch?
Speaker 6 (15:08):
And then it says I have tried to solve this
problem informally by and then he says speaking with staff
several times. And then the next thing it says, I
suggest the following solution for the problem. And he says,
in the future, I wish to receive my lunch without exception.
This could be accomplished by sending for the replacement as
rapidly as possible. What a greed.
Speaker 7 (15:29):
That's the whole Thank god you're here right Well, listen,
I would suggest you don't murder for people. I would
tend go to prison and expect your vegan meal the
end exclamation point that story is over right.
Speaker 6 (15:41):
And he had said something like, you know, if I
don't receive everything on my tray, you're not meeting the
nutritial requirements as documented by your own policy. And immediately,
immediately I was like, what, I wonder if you know
the children or the young adults that you murdered, you know,
wonder about you violating their policy for you know, the
right to live and the people that you harassed, wsu
(16:03):
the policy of violating title line media.
Speaker 7 (16:05):
Have it being a total creeper and making everybody super uncomfortable.
And then you're taking the lives of four extraordinary human beings,
wrecking generations of lives for all of their families, all
of those who knew them and loved them. The ripple
effect of that will go on for generations and generations
and generations. And this clown feels it's appropriate to be
(16:26):
upset about his meals, right, Yeah, I gotta tell you
the nerve it feels to me like it's not sinking
in entirely to Brian Coburger, that he's not getting the
fact that he was spared his life and he took
a coward's way out by not sharing any of the
details or any of the information for reasons we'll never know.
And now he just wants to be treated per the
(16:48):
law for prison conduct. Give me a break.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
So, in addition to the meal complaints, which I think,
you know, I mean, listen, I do think that we
need to feed these people, he's also complaining about being
taunted in prison by the other inmates. He's saying he's
being sexually harassed. Coburger accused one inmate of saying I'll
but fu and another stating that the only ass we're
going to be eating is Coburger's. He requested a transfer
(17:15):
out of the J block, got moved up one floor
to J two, which is the second level. He filed
a complaint saying that he was being subjected to minute
by minute threats and harassment. His cell was flooded. He
told the committee that he wants to eventually be allowed
to work and be productive in prison and have shared recreation,
just like any other high profile resident on J two does.
(17:38):
And you know, listen, in ten years, people probably will
have forgotten about Brian Coberger. And he might get that privilege,
but for right now, he's exactly where he belongs by
himself in a cell, only allowed out one hour day
in shackles and only allowed to shower every other day.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And Coburger's and behavior didn't start at the Idaho Maximum
Security Institution. Documents released by the Moscow Police Department and
the Idaho State Police show that even in county jail,
he was a constant nuisance, pushing boundaries and acting entitled.
To break down what these reports reveal about him, here's
crime analyst Body move in along with Kat's studio's producer
(18:22):
Alison Bankston.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
We learned the documents tell us that Brian Coberger was
annoying in Leytal County Jail. The people that were in
jail with him found him incredibly annoying. He would pace
his cell, he would wash his hands constantly.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
And I guess when he first was admitted into Leayta County,
he just walked into the pod and saw himself on
TV and was like, Wow, I'm on every channel. What
a bizarre thing to say for your grand entrance. And
this is before he even pled. You know, he's presumed
innocent he's acting all proud that he's on TV. Odd behavior.
And you know the thing too in this particular report
(19:01):
is that, you know, this inmate is saying Brian loved
watching the news when it was just him on it.
You know, news stores just threaded his case. But he
would immediately change the channel if his family was mentioned,
like immediately he'd turn it off. And these fellow inmates
are also saying, you know that he'd spent hours and
hours on the phone with.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
His mom, right and in one instance, one of the
inmates was watching TV like kind of in like their
day room, I'm imagining, and Brian Coberger was on the
phone with his mother and you know, he's watching sports
on TV and he's yelling at the TV a shut
up or you know something along those lines. And Brian
Coberger kind of rushed over and put his you know,
(19:42):
head between the bars and said, what did you say?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Are you taking?
Speaker 6 (19:45):
You know, kind of implying that the inmate was talking
about Brian Coberger's mom and Brian got incessant about it.
That's pretty scary, listen. I'm not a psychologist, so I
don't know the answer. Is there something weird there with
his mom? Does he have some sort of reverence for
his mom and maybe women don't live up to his
mom's you know image, Like is he modonifying his mom
(20:08):
in some way? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
We brought in Robin Drake, a retired FBI special agent
and former head of the bureau's counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis program,
to offer his perspective on Brian Cobecker's complicated and potentially
strange relationship with his mother.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
His relationship with his mom is really interesting, you know,
and we see these with other serial killers too, like
famous ad Geen, he's obsessed with his mom as well.
He inspired Norman Bates. Brian Coberger's mom seems like a
normal person. She doesn't seem like Adgeen's mom, who is
this kind of terrible person in a lot of ways.
But what is it about someone's relationship with their mom
(20:50):
and this idolization of their mom that would make like
a hatred for women or a want to kill? What
is it with serial killers mothers?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
They're all different, you know, the sense I get again,
no data points on this because the mother is not
sharing anything, but from what we see from the family,
dynamic and limited data points, you know, So it's all conjecture.
I don't get the sense of a of a Norman
Bates kind of thing here with a domineering mother. To me,
this is in one I've seen another. A few psychologists
online say it's not necessarily mother fixation. I just think
(21:19):
this is his only sense of emotional anchoring. He gets,
his only sense of anchoring he has because life in
his brain is just chaos, I think, and he can't
and that's why he's OCD. That's why he fixates on things,
is try to try to control that. And the only
thing that's that's been stable that doesn't bring chaos to
his brain. My estimation is his mother, because what a
(21:41):
mother does, or just any any compassionate, empathetic individual will do,
is not judge. And when you're not being judged, that
becomes an anchor for you that no matter what happens,
I can go back to my ancher, no matter what happens,
to go back to my anchor. And so I my estimation,
my conjecture is she is just that anchor that was
(22:02):
there no matter what he did, no matter what kind
of day he's having. You know, Dad's the one that's
gonna help me by taking action, by turning me into
the police when I steal my sister's cell phone and
take actions to drive across the country with me. Because
he's a caring dad. But dad's a dad in this case,
looks like a problem solver. Mom just looks like the anchor,
and so he's holding on to that anchor. And as
(22:23):
things got more chaotic, what do you do? You go
back to your anchor more. That's why I think he
called her more and more and more in prison.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
Yeah, that makes total sense. Thank you. You know, I
honestly really feel for his mom. That has to be
such a tough situation to be and no mothers are
supposed to love their sons. She can't just ignore his
phone calls. I'm sure this is heartbreaking and devastating for her.
I honestly don't know what I would do. I also
wanted to ask you another question about Brian Colberger's prison
life from a behavioral standpoint, just something I was wondering about.
(22:53):
You know, he seems like such a cocky person. You know,
we read earlier reports that he was bragg you know,
a bean on TV to his fellow inmates. A lot
of people who knew him said he always had to
be the smartest person in the room going into prison.
Do you think that he thought that he would be
kind of like a rock star. Do you think he thought,
I'm going to be the most popular person there, I'm
going to be notorious. I did the worst thing. What
(23:14):
do you think was going through his mind before he
decided to plead guilty and say, you know, I'm going
to spend the rest of my life in prison.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
So one of the things that I believe or a
motivation for the behavior he had is and he said
it earlier in life, he wasn't stimulated by anything. So
you're constantly going for some sort of emotional stimulation. That's
why he experimented and got at the drugs. It's why
we do everything in life. Kickboxing will give you, you know, stimulation,
So I think he was always seeking some sort of stimulation.
So I think when he resolved to finally admit guilt,
(23:45):
he was looking forward to being stimulated by being notorious
in prison. So his mind started shifting. He's like, I
will be this famous person. But because he thinks in
a stovepipe, he wasn't really fully appreciating the fact of
how prisons generally run about and if you kill women
or children.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. Brian Coberger may have believed his name would
carry weight behind bars, but prison life doesn't work that way.
To explain why we brought back bail bondsman Kevin Corson,
(24:29):
he spent years around inmates and understands the reality of
surviving inside.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
He goes to this facility and there's you know, there's
people in there. This is their home, and when you're
in these places, you're the biggest and baddest person in there,
and that's how you survive.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
And he's the new guy there.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, he probably does have that thinking, I'm gonna have
notoriety when I get there, and I'm going to be
this guy that did this, and all these other bad
people are going to look up to me.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
That's not the case.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
You're coming into their house where they live, and you know,
you better play by the rules. And that's the number
one reason why they have to keep him away from
other people, because it's not notoriety that he has there.
It's these people that are the biggest and the baddest
that would love to hurt him.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Stick him with a fork.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Stick him, you know, with a shaved down blade to
make a name for themselves because this is their home
and it has been for a while. So you get
so institutionalized with the way you deal with stuff, and
it's technically a you know, a disrespect. You're coming into
my home and we're going to make sure you play
by our rules. Otherwise, if we have the chance to
(25:45):
get you, we will. And he does have a target
on his back one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
And it's a target he will likely carry for the
rest of his life. There is very little chance that
Brian Coberger will ever see the general prison population again.
His future is one of permanent solitary confinement, a world
of cement walls, endless lockdowns, and hours that bleed together
into gray, monotonous days. No redemption, no freedom, no escape,
(26:21):
just the consequences of his own choices haunting him every
single day. This is the existence he created, This is
the life he will endure, and this is the legacy
he leaves behind. Next time on the Idaho Massacre, we're
joined by sociologist doctor Michael Kimmel, a leading expert on
(26:42):
men's studies and masculinities. Some have speculated that Brian Coberger
could have been part of the in cell movement, but
is that really true or is it just another label
being placed on him? Next week we'll explore the evidence
and the uncertainty surrounding this theory. More on that next time.
(27:04):
For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow
us on Instagram at Kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre
is produced by Stephanie Leideker, Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo, and
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Toois.
Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masacre is a production
(27:26):
of KAT Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like this,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
To be sent to MZ, you have to commit the worst,
the worst crimes in Idaho.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He's holding on that anchor and as things got more chaotic,
what do you do? You go back to your anchor more.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
He does have a target on his back. One hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
This is the Idaho Massacre. A production of KAT Studios
and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode six, Behind Bars. I'm Courtney Armstrong,
a producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leideger, Gabriel Castillo,
and Alison Bankston. On July twenty third, twenty twenty five,
(00:48):
Brian Coberger officially became inmate number one six three two
one four at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution in Kuna, Idaho.
It's a notorious facility that lands it on Security Journal
America's twenty twenty four list of the worst prisons in
(01:09):
the United States. It's built to contain the state's most
violent and unpredictable offenders. This prison has a reputation for
relentless conditions, solitary confinement, overcrowding, and frequent lockdowns inside. Inmates
have few opportunities for social interaction, education, or rehabilitation. The
(01:32):
facility has also been criticized as an environment that often
breeds severe behavioral issues for harsh treatment and lack of
adequate mental health care. Reports of inmate on inmate violence
are common, and allegations of excessive force by correctional officers
continue to hang over the institution's legacy. It's a place
(01:54):
where survival is a daily struggle. To help us understand
what life behind these walls will really be like for
Brian Kobecker, we turn to bail bondsman Kevin Corson, a
man who knows the inner workings of this infamous facility.
He's joined by a KAT Studios producer, Alison Bankston.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
If you can tell me about your background, what you
do with your bail company, how you related to the prison.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I've been doing this for about ten years and I
love it. And we have a lot of people that
get sent to prison. Obviously, the clients that we work
with and we hear back from them.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
You know a lot about the conditions.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And stuff like that that we hear about, and you
know just kind of what it's like there.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Well, can you tell me about the Idaho Maximum Security
Institution for someone who's never been there, can you paint
kind of a very detailed picture of it, walk me
through it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So it was constructed in nineteen eighty nine. It is
currently set up to house roughly the five hundred and
thirty prisoners. So when you pull up to the South
Boise Prison Complex where IMSI, the Maximum Security Institution is housed,
it's seven different buildings that you're you're kind of pulling
(03:16):
up to there, and it ranges from alternative placement to
work release, to a women's prison, to a general prison,
to community and reintroducement facilities. And the Maximum Security Institution
is one of seven of those buildings out there, and
(03:37):
it is the one with double fencing around it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
It's got razor wire.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It has electronic monitoring on the outside. It has twenty
four hour guards on the outside that are armed fully
watching the perimeter at any given time. To be sent
to MZ, you have to either commit murder or a rape,
or you know, several different things stacking up really extreme
(04:04):
cases of drug trafficking and stuff like that. Definitely the
worst of the worst crimes in Idaho, not just not
just a theft or beating somebody up and stuff like that,
or aggravated assault, or it's gonna be somebody that they
see as a high risk for reoffense, or they have
an entire lifetime a rap sheet of this and there's
(04:27):
just no turning this person around. So everybody in IMSI
is under very strict housing, but not everybody has the
twenty three hour a day rule. There are some inmates
that are like in close custody, that are able to
have more freedom within the facility and be housed with
(04:49):
each other, eat their meals somewhat normally, not in their
cell for the rest of their life.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
And how about Brian Colberger, where is he housed? What
is his custody situation?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Like Coberger's now housed on J Block. J Block is
as secure as it gets.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
It's very bare bones.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
There's only the stuff you need. It's not a comfy bed,
it's not a comfy toilet to sit on. It's a
dirty sink and a slot for your food to come
through for every meal that.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
You're gonna eat.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
J Block is where the death row inmates are housed,
as well as the max of the max prisoners are kept.
So there's a section for death row and there's also
a section for people that are up there with that
security level but not on death row, and they eat
in their cells every meal or however long they're there.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
What is life like in these cells? What do these
inmates do for entertainment?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
You don't have access to a TV in the cell.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You can get an iPad and you can come out
into the open area outside of the cell, or one
hour a.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Day that you're allowed out.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
You can either go exercise, you can buy a tablet
and have access to visit people on that limited access
to the internet, limited access to TV shows, but you're
only allowed an hour out a day, So you better
choose wisely what you want to do. When you're watching
this iPad, you're going to be in a cage in
the middle of this room, and so you can't just
(06:24):
walk around with it. You can't bring it back to
your cell.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I'm intrigued what you said about the tablets. So I
think a lot of people so they can't bring the
tablets into their cells. No, because I think when I
first read that he had a tablet and maybe get
a TV, I'm thinking, Oh, he's just gonna watch movies
all day in his cell and be entertained. But so
I think that's a good distinction, is that they're only
allowed one hour and they can play with their tablet.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Then essentially yep, one hour a day tablet visitation, exercise,
watching a show on the tablet, watching you know, limited
internet and books. But other than that, that other twenty
three hours a day you're staring at a wall.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
Do you know what kind of like TV shows they
have access to and what websites they can go on.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So the websites are mainly going to be informational. If
an inmate wants to appeal their case, they have access
to stuff like that, Like I said, just purely informational.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
No Facebook.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
As far as the TV shows, it's going to be
nothing of violence, nothing that kind of pertains to why
they're there, Nothing that they can sort of enjoy.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Right, he gets to shower every other day.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
It's kind of odd to think about, but that sucks.
But that's where you are, and it's pretty much the
same for the rest of the inmates.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
One thing that really stood out to me is, you know,
there's been this document dump and we're kind of learning
some things about what his life was like at the
Leita County Jail. I guess he was known for taking
like hour showers and he would just sit in there
and you know, wash his hands aggressively all the time.
That's not something he could do at IMSI. It sounds like, so.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
He does have access to a sink, but you know,
it sounds like he's kind of a germophobe and needing
to wash the hands all the time, and he's kind
of maybe a little bit ocd about stuff. And he's
gonna probably not have a lot of soap that they're
gonna be providing him all the time. That's kind of
(08:31):
a luxury as far as he's doing it. But yeah,
he does have access to a sink, and the shower
thing probably really bugs him every other day.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Do you know anything about the food in there, like
the fact that he's, you know, a very strict vegan.
What could he be seen, how could he how could
the rest of his life look from from that standpoint?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
The dietary requirements for an individual, whether they be vegan vegetarian,
the prison does accommodate, and they do have certain menus
that they are able to give the inmates if you
get too picky, though it's clearly says on the website
we're not gonna jump through hoops for you, but they
do provide what they're required to as far as dietary restrictions.
(09:16):
And yeah, I actually have a menu right here for
m Z.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
I'm so curious. Yes, please share.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I mean it's not a bad menu.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Biscuits and gravy for breakfast, peanut butter pancakes another day,
French toast, coffee cake, pumpkin bread.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
And this is stuff that not only the.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Close custody people are getting, but also on J block
death row. And you know the worst of the worst there,
all the way down to lower level. Day two of
the month, you're gonna get mac and cheese, you know,
day six, pizza, barbecue, chicken, chili, beef, tacos, meat loaf.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So it doesn't sound very bad.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
You know, there's visitation there, in person visitation, but it's
very limited. It's very strict as far as who can go.
There's a whole application process for somebody coming to visit
an inmate there, and Coberger's days will be Thursday, Friday,
Saturday and Sunday that he's limited to.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Oh wow, so yeah, actually has quite a few days
for visitors to show.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Up, correct, But it all has to be approved and
it's not you know, the prison system, they're liable for.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
These people's safety.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
They have to provide food, water, shelter, and beyond that,
a limited amount of exercise. If the prisoner is, you know,
behaving well, they can do that. As far as visiting,
they can easily deny people coming or even video.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Some of the people that you work with, they come
back to you and they tell you what IMSI is like,
What are some of the stories they've shared with you
about their experiences there.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
The status of the living situation there has been kind
of a contentious issue with the Department of Correction here.
There's been many complaints about the living conditions, the excessive
use of wars, the excessive use of solitary confinement for
(11:20):
inmates that you know, the stories are they did nothing
wrong and it's been investigated and there's been a couple
of lawsuits about it against the Department of Correction here.
And it's not a nice place. It's not clean. Coburger
is going to hate that. The vents, We've all heard
about PCs being shoved into the vents and the event
(11:41):
system goes around to the entire place. I have heard
about people communicating through vents from clients and inmates urinating
on the floor, and it's just kind of a constant.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Game of cleanup there.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And these people have nothing left to lose, you know,
they're already being put in solitary and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Where can you do?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And it's a very very dark place.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. On July twenty third, twenty twenty five, Brian
Coberger began the rest of his existence inside the Idaho
Maximum Security Institution after being sentenced to four consecutive life
(12:30):
terms for the brutal murders of Madison Mogen, Kaylie Gonsalvez,
Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Shapin. Known as IMSI, this facility
is reserved for Idaho's most violent and dangerous inmates. It's
a place that has garnered a reputation for its harsh,
hell like conditions, overcrowding, extended lockdowns, and criticism over the
(12:52):
poor treatment of inmates. For many life at IMSI is isolating, grueling,
and relentless. Now that's the world Brian Coberger is facing
every single day, and it seems he's struggling to adapt.
Reports indicate he's been firing off complaint after complaint to
prison staff, detailing his discontent with his new reality. Here's
(13:16):
Stephanie Laideker with crime analyst Body Movin breaking down Coberger's
latest prison quarrels and what they might reveal about him.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
This is why I'm calling him Brian Karenberger. His handwriting
is literally the worst thing ever. But I'm going to
read them to you. You're going to get so crazy.
Just by the way, trigger alert. This is going to
make everybody nuts. I feel so enraged right now, and
that's a rare feeling for me. I'm not really the
enraged one, but you really know, you're very level headed.
This was dated on July twenty seventh, and he was
(13:48):
still in medical on the twenty seventh. Okay, so we
need to keep all that in mind. Okay. So this
is written on the twenty seventh, and he says, I
need access to the JPay system to act SIS and
complete an order created on I think it's or crafted
on a full commissary menu.
Speaker 7 (14:07):
Common is hungary. This clown is hungry. He's just exhausted
and hungry from killing people. This guy wants his dinner
and his lunch now.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
When attempting to access JP, I am given an error
that I am not set up in the system at
the Sea Block. Again, he's in medical at this time. Okay,
at the Sea Block, Kiosk may I temporarily moved in
the system to do so. Thank you for your assistance.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
So that's all.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
That's one complaint, Okay. The next one is, Okay, I
did not receive my lunch on seven thirty, twenty twenty
five despite inquiring. Although I understand that the something became hectic,
it was never communicated to me that I would be
unable to receive a new bag. The next shift was
not aware of this either. I wish to access as
(15:00):
I have a right to this meal, thank you, as
I have kindergarten.
Speaker 7 (15:05):
Is he actually asking for a middle school lunch?
Speaker 6 (15:08):
And then it says I have tried to solve this
problem informally by and then he says speaking with staff
several times. And then the next thing it says, I
suggest the following solution for the problem. And he says,
in the future, I wish to receive my lunch without exception.
This could be accomplished by sending for the replacement as
rapidly as possible. What a greed.
Speaker 7 (15:29):
That's the whole Thank god you're here right Well, listen,
I would suggest you don't murder for people. I would
tend go to prison and expect your vegan meal the
end exclamation point that story is over right.
Speaker 6 (15:41):
And he had said something like, you know, if I
don't receive everything on my tray, you're not meeting the
nutritial requirements as documented by your own policy. And immediately,
immediately I was like, what, I wonder if you know
the children or the young adults that you murdered, you know,
wonder about you violating their policy for you know, the
right to live and the people that you harassed, wsu
(16:03):
the policy of violating title line media.
Speaker 7 (16:05):
Have it being a total creeper and making everybody super uncomfortable.
And then you're taking the lives of four extraordinary human beings,
wrecking generations of lives for all of their families, all
of those who knew them and loved them. The ripple
effect of that will go on for generations and generations
and generations. And this clown feels it's appropriate to be
(16:26):
upset about his meals, right, Yeah, I gotta tell you
the nerve it feels to me like it's not sinking
in entirely to Brian Coburger, that he's not getting the
fact that he was spared his life and he took
a coward's way out by not sharing any of the
details or any of the information for reasons we'll never know.
And now he just wants to be treated per the
(16:48):
law for prison conduct. Give me a break.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
So, in addition to the meal complaints, which I think,
you know, I mean, listen, I do think that we
need to feed these people, he's also complaining about being
taunted in prison by the other inmates. He's saying he's
being sexually harassed. Coburger accused one inmate of saying I'll
but fu and another stating that the only ass we're
going to be eating is Coburger's. He requested a transfer
(17:15):
out of the J block, got moved up one floor
to J two, which is the second level. He filed
a complaint saying that he was being subjected to minute
by minute threats and harassment. His cell was flooded. He
told the committee that he wants to eventually be allowed
to work and be productive in prison and have shared recreation,
just like any other high profile resident on J two does.
(17:38):
And you know, listen, in ten years, people probably will
have forgotten about Brian Coberger. And he might get that privilege,
but for right now, he's exactly where he belongs by
himself in a cell, only allowed out one hour day
in shackles and only allowed to shower every other day.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And Coburger's and behavior didn't start at the Idaho Maximum
Security Institution. Documents released by the Moscow Police Department and
the Idaho State Police show that even in county jail,
he was a constant nuisance, pushing boundaries and acting entitled.
To break down what these reports reveal about him, here's
crime analyst Body move in along with Kat's studio's producer
(18:22):
Alison Bankston.
Speaker 6 (18:26):
We learned the documents tell us that Brian Coberger was
annoying in Leytal County Jail. The people that were in
jail with him found him incredibly annoying. He would pace
his cell, he would wash his hands constantly.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
And I guess when he first was admitted into Leayta County,
he just walked into the pod and saw himself on
TV and was like, Wow, I'm on every channel. What
a bizarre thing to say for your grand entrance. And
this is before he even pled. You know, he's presumed
innocent he's acting all proud that he's on TV. Odd behavior.
And you know the thing too in this particular report
(19:01):
is that, you know, this inmate is saying Brian loved
watching the news when it was just him on it.
You know, news stores just threaded his case. But he
would immediately change the channel if his family was mentioned,
like immediately he'd turn it off. And these fellow inmates
are also saying, you know that he'd spent hours and
hours on the phone with.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
His mom, right and in one instance, one of the
inmates was watching TV like kind of in like their
day room, I'm imagining, and Brian Coberger was on the
phone with his mother and you know, he's watching sports
on TV and he's yelling at the TV a shut
up or you know something along those lines. And Brian
Coberger kind of rushed over and put his you know,
(19:42):
head between the bars and said, what did you say?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Are you taking?
Speaker 6 (19:45):
You know, kind of implying that the inmate was talking
about Brian Coberger's mom and Brian got incessant about it.
That's pretty scary, listen. I'm not a psychologist, so I
don't know the answer. Is there something weird there with
his mom? Does he have some sort of reverence for
his mom and maybe women don't live up to his
mom's you know image, Like is he modonifying his mom
(20:08):
in some way? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
We brought in Robin Drake, a retired FBI special agent
and former head of the bureau's counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis program,
to offer his perspective on Brian Cobecker's complicated and potentially
strange relationship with his mother.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
His relationship with his mom is really interesting, you know,
and we see these with other serial killers too, like
famous ad Geen, he's obsessed with his mom as well.
He inspired Norman Bates. Brian Coberger's mom seems like a
normal person. She doesn't seem like Adgeen's mom, who is
this kind of terrible person in a lot of ways.
But what is it about someone's relationship with their mom
(20:50):
and this idolization of their mom that would make like
a hatred for women or a want to kill? What
is it with serial killers mothers?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
They're all different, you know, the sense I get again,
no data points on this because the mother is not
sharing anything, but from what we see from the family,
dynamic and limited data points, you know, So it's all conjecture.
I don't get the sense of a of a Norman
Bates kind of thing here with a domineering mother. To me,
this is in one I've seen another. A few psychologists
online say it's not necessarily mother fixation. I just think
(21:19):
this is his only sense of emotional anchoring. He gets,
his only sense of anchoring he has because life in
his brain is just chaos, I think, and he can't
and that's why he's OCD. That's why he fixates on things,
is try to try to control that. And the only
thing that's that's been stable that doesn't bring chaos to
his brain. My estimation is his mother, because what a
(21:41):
mother does, or just any any compassionate, empathetic individual will do,
is not judge. And when you're not being judged, that
becomes an anchor for you that no matter what happens,
I can go back to my ancher, no matter what happens,
to go back to my anchor. And so I my estimation,
my conjecture is she is just that anchor that was
(22:02):
there no matter what he did, no matter what kind
of day he's having. You know, Dad's the one that's
gonna help me by taking action, by turning me into
the police when I steal my sister's cell phone and
take actions to drive across the country with me. Because
he's a caring dad. But dad's a dad in this case,
looks like a problem solver. Mom just looks like the anchor,
and so he's holding on to that anchor. And as
(22:23):
things got more chaotic, what do you do? You go
back to your anchor more. That's why I think he
called her more and more and more in prison.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
Yeah, that makes total sense. Thank you. You know, I
honestly really feel for his mom. That has to be
such a tough situation to be and no mothers are
supposed to love their sons. She can't just ignore his
phone calls. I'm sure this is heartbreaking and devastating for her.
I honestly don't know what I would do. I also
wanted to ask you another question about Brian Colberger's prison
life from a behavioral standpoint, just something I was wondering about.
(22:53):
You know, he seems like such a cocky person. You know,
we read earlier reports that he was bragg you know,
a bean on TV to his fellow inmates. A lot
of people who knew him said he always had to
be the smartest person in the room going into prison.
Do you think that he thought that he would be
kind of like a rock star. Do you think he thought,
I'm going to be the most popular person there, I'm
going to be notorious. I did the worst thing. What
(23:14):
do you think was going through his mind before he
decided to plead guilty and say, you know, I'm going
to spend the rest of my life in prison.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
So one of the things that I believe or a
motivation for the behavior he had is and he said
it earlier in life, he wasn't stimulated by anything. So
you're constantly going for some sort of emotional stimulation. That's
why he experimented and got at the drugs. It's why
we do everything in life. Kickboxing will give you, you know, stimulation,
So I think he was always seeking some sort of stimulation.
So I think when he resolved to finally admit guilt,
(23:45):
he was looking forward to being stimulated by being notorious
in prison. So his mind started shifting. He's like, I
will be this famous person. But because he thinks in
a stovepipe, he wasn't really fully appreciating the fact of
how prisons generally run about and if you kill women
or children.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. Brian Coberger may have believed his name would
carry weight behind bars, but prison life doesn't work that way.
To explain why we brought back bail bondsman Kevin Corson,
(24:29):
he spent years around inmates and understands the reality of
surviving inside.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
He goes to this facility and there's you know, there's
people in there. This is their home, and when you're
in these places, you're the biggest and baddest person in there,
and that's how you survive.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
And he's the new guy there.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, he probably does have that thinking, I'm gonna have
notoriety when I get there, and I'm going to be
this guy that did this, and all these other bad
people are going to look up to me.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
That's not the case.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
You're coming into their house where they live, and you know,
you better play by the rules. And that's the number
one reason why they have to keep him away from
other people, because it's not notoriety that he has there.
It's these people that are the biggest and the baddest
that would love to hurt him.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Stick him with a fork.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Stick him, you know, with a shaved down blade to
make a name for themselves because this is their home
and it has been for a while. So you get
so institutionalized with the way you deal with stuff, and
it's technically a you know, a disrespect. You're coming into
my home and we're going to make sure you play
by our rules. Otherwise, if we have the chance to
(25:45):
get you, we will. And he does have a target
on his back one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
And it's a target he will likely carry for the
rest of his life. There is very little chance that
Brian Coberger will ever see the general prison population again.
His future is one of permanent solitary confinement, a world
of cement walls, endless lockdowns, and hours that bleed together
into gray, monotonous days. No redemption, no freedom, no escape,
(26:21):
just the consequences of his own choices haunting him every
single day. This is the existence he created, This is
the life he will endure, and this is the legacy
he leaves behind. Next time on the Idaho Massacre, we're
joined by sociologist doctor Michael Kimmel, a leading expert on
(26:42):
men's studies and masculinities. Some have speculated that Brian Coberger
could have been part of the in cell movement, but
is that really true or is it just another label
being placed on him? Next week we'll explore the evidence
and the uncertainty surrounding this theory. More on that next time.
(27:04):
For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow
us on Instagram at Kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre
is produced by Stephanie Leideker, Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo, and
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Toois.
Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masacre is a production
(27:26):
of KAT Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like this,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Lydecker
Courtney Armstrong
Jeff Shane
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