February 15, 2023 • 26 mins
More former Wagner allies take the stand to reveal the complex and sometimes disturbing relationships between the accused family. Will this information tie back to accused murderer, George Wagner IV?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Rita Newcome is somebody we've known about since the arrests
were made in this case back in November of twenty eighteen,
and Rita is Angela Wagner's mother. She claimed that Angela
told her that if you don't do this, they're going
to hurt me. Can you imagine your daughter is basically
begging you not to turn her in, and then you
(00:24):
come to find out that she's essentially bringing you into
a murder investigation and leaving you under the bus. You know,
a lot of times in this case, it feels like
they're doing more to convict Jake and Angela than they
are George regarding custody of his son, what did he
want you to you? Okay, custody? This is the pithon
(00:54):
Massacre season four, episode sixteen, Relevancy. I'm Courtney Armshaw and
a television producer at Katie's Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and
Jeff Shane. We're picking up after last episode's testimony from
Chris Newcomb, Angela Wagner's half brother and uncle to George
and Jake Wagner. On the stand. Now is Chris Newcomb's partner,
(01:17):
Miranda Hughes. She opted out of video recording, but allowed
audio recording of her testimony. It's important to note that
George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not guilty on all accounts,
as has his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming.
Thank you, honor. The state would call his Rida Hughes,
good morning. How are you nervous? Get that a lot
(01:40):
from that chair. Miranda opted out of being videotaped, but
allowed her verbal testimony to be recorded. Randa echoed much
of Chris Newcomb's testimony about Jake and George Wagner's disconcerting
die job. Were there any conversations about that at that
time when you saw them with their hair dyed? Yes?
(02:02):
And what was that? Well that? Why did they do it?
And Jake said he wanted to look like I think
his name is Norman reads. Norman reads. Yeah. I told
him he was far from that. But both JP and
George had their hair dye yes, okay? And did you
know who dyed their hair? Angela? And after the homicides,
(02:26):
did that fact that they had dyed their hair cause
you to think something? Yes? Okay? And what was that?
Made me worry? Why? Because why would you change your
parents and then something like that happened. Randa also backed
up Chris's claims about George's desire for a block pistol.
(02:49):
Was there ever a time where you were present for
helping to obtain a forty caliber block for George? Yes? Sorry, Okay, Well,
(03:11):
I'm going to over rejection the answer stand George reading questions,
can you tell us about that? Yeah? He asked Chris
if he knew of anybody that had a glock. Had
Chris said that he didn't know of anybody at the moment,
(03:31):
but that he could look for him. And when Chris
down one, I think George wanted it. So we met
up with the guy. But George wanted us to go
because Chris had been the one talking to him. Okay,
And did you accompany Chris? Yes? Okay? And do you
remember where you met up with this individual? I don't
(03:52):
know exactly where. I just knew it was a parking ride.
Randa also made some reveiling statements about how George and
Jake asked her and Chris Nucom to secure custody of
their kids in case they went to prison after the
Wagoners were charged in these offenses. Did they want you
(04:13):
and Chris to do certain things. Yes, regarding custody of
his son. What did he want you to do? Get custody?
Get custody? Okay? And how do you know that because
they asked okay, Well, George asked, okay, George asked and
did anybody else ask you to yes? Who else? Angela
(04:37):
and Jake? Okay, they all three asked you, guys to
try to get custody of yes, correct, And did you
get an attorney to do that? Yes? But once the
Wagoners were arrested, Chris and Randa abandoned their custody efforts.
Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the very first time
(05:00):
I'm personally hearing that George and Angela and Jake wanted
Chris and Randad to be the guardians of the children.
And of course, you know, if you're getting arrested and
going away for murder, you would want your close family
member to have custody of your child. But you know,
at least one of the children Georgie's in this case
had a mom who could have raised him. That being said, though,
(05:21):
George had told Chris and Randa that he wanted them
to have custody and they were apparently pushing for that
until they actually met Tabby and realized that she was
not who George had made her out to be. She
was actually a good mom and a nice person, and
George's son had a nice life with her. So they
dropped any efforts to get custody of the children after Jake, George,
(05:41):
and Angela and Billy were finally arrested, and for whatever reason,
the Wagners believed that they were the only people who
could raise their children and the only people that should
be raising their children. But it seems like ultimately Chris
and Randa disagreed, and I still don't think we're getting
the full explanation as to why that is, other than
(06:03):
that the Wagoners simply wanted to control these children. Forensic
investigator Joseph Scott Morgan sheds light on the place of
Randy Hughes's testimony in the trial. With Hughes, you know,
she kind of had an insight into their world that
not many other people have. I think, you know, you
kind of get to peek under the covers a little
(06:27):
bit with her. You got to see kind of some
of the insights as it applied to custody issues and
kids and you know, that was the big thing, you know,
because that goes to motive, I think, and we have
to understand that. I think a lot of people are
mistaken when they think about prosecution. Prosecution does not have
(06:47):
proved motive. That's not what the purpose of this is. However,
it does go to getting a feel for what family
dynamic was like, of the familial environment. I think that
that's spirit significant. And you know, as thrilled as we
get about hearing people talk about forensics and getting down
into the nuts and bolts of things, I don't think
(07:08):
that it is as significant as you know, being able
to get a peek into this world. In his cross defense,
attorney Richard Nash tried to pin the fascination with The
Walking Dead on Jake. He was the one who modeled
his killings after the show's lead character, not George the
man on child. And there was some discussion speaking of
(07:29):
hair color. Jake had told you that I think he
wanted to look like Norman Riders. Yes, and Norman readas
is he the main character in the Walking Day, He's
kind of one of the main characters of The Walking Dead. Yes,
And Jake had a fascination with Norman yes, okay, I
(07:51):
saw you really give me a positive response to that,
And you've watched The Walking Debt, yes, and so your
familiarity with the movie. Ye, how do you kill a zombie?
They shoot him in the head. The jury also heard
about the tattoos that Billy, George, and Jake got after
the murders. Jake got one of flaming pistols on his
(08:13):
upper arms. Billy and George's were a bit more problematic again,
and Jeanette after the homicides, you know, about a month
and a half later or so, June of twenty seventeen,
he and Jake and George went and they got tattoos.
Billy's tattoo is a scorpion with eight notches on it,
(08:34):
and the prosecution thinks that that holds some significance. We
have eight victims in this case, and a scorpion, which
can be fatal, is on his right finger, which could
be his trigger finger if he's right handed, and he's
got this tattoo with, you know, signifying something that can
(08:54):
be deadly on his hand. George, on the other hand,
has something that's an eight ball inside a skeleton's mouth
with some aces on the sides of you know, playing
cards aces. I'm not, you know, I don't know if
that's a coincidence. I don't. Obviously, the prosecution feels like
it's significant and it's relevant that the number eight is
(09:16):
common in these tattoos. A scorpion with eight abdominal segments,
a skull biting down on an eight ball, eight rod instead.
Some people see the correlation. Others wonder why it's admissible.
It's kind of strange because we, I guess the judge
is letting the jury look at this and see if
it's relevant. I mean, it's up to the jury to
(09:38):
determine whether or not the tattoos are relevant. I'm not sure,
you know, I could see the scorpion being relevant, possibly
the eight ball in the skeleton's mouth. I think we
just have to wait to see how the testimony plays out.
Joseph Morgan is more dubious. I would have said that
years ago the tattoos may have carried more weight. I
(10:00):
think I'm recalling them on mind, you know, uh, you know,
being for instance, in the Morgue, I remember a couple
of cases where I had people who were legitimately folks
that had worked as assassins in prison. They wind them
dying when they finally get on the outside and they
have the tear drop tattoos. You know, you always knew
that point somebody that had committed a homicide you had
(10:22):
to put chuco crosses on the hands that you know,
there's little crosses with the little radiating lines that you know,
you can tell if somebody's a drug dealer or an
arms dealer, or they're an assassin. They used to tell
these tales. But you know the problem is people use
tattoos now to try to create an image for themselves.
Maybe you could get a tattoo expert to pop up
(10:43):
on stand and say, oh yeah, based on the structure
of this thing, this is generally associated with people that are,
you know, involved in this type of behavior, particularly if
you're talking about gangs and whatnot. But you know, you
can say that all day long. I mean, I've seen
some pretty horrific things. Images of these tattoos that people
(11:04):
walk around in public with they don't make them a killer.
It just means that they've got an interest in this
this interesting art that they're willing to put on their
body and display to the rest of the world. But
that doesn't make you a perpetrator in a homicide. The
(11:25):
jury also heard heart stirring testimony from Rita Nucombe, Angela
Wagner's mother, and Jake and George's grandmother. Nucom declined video
or audio recording of her testimony. Petite with dirty blonde hair.
Nucom is a devout Christian who wrestled with their daughter's
actions after the murders Stephanie and Jeff. Rita was in
(11:47):
tears when she testified about how she initially lied to
investigators to protect her daughter and quote her grandbabies, but
then she soon came clean because of her faith in God,
and of course once the Wagners became actual suspects steph.
What I find interesting is that Rita Newcom falsely told
agents with the Ohio BCI that she had signed these
(12:10):
custody documents involving George and Jake's children as a notary public.
Rita basically testified in court saying that Angela said to her, look, Mom,
if you don't admit this, they're going to really hurt
me and possibly even kill me. And that's a brutal
spot to be And can you imagine your daughter is
basically begging you not to turn her in and then
(12:31):
you come to find out that she's essentially bringing you
into a murder investigation and leaving you under the bus.
She continues to describe the worst days of her life
were the eight days that she spent behind bars. Again.
Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, I think that Rita being
in the midst of this just tutanic storm. There's part
(12:56):
of me if you can, if anybody can, feel kind
of sorry for anybody that's been associated with with these
horrible deeds. I think that, you know, I would listen
probably more toward Rita new in this. You know, she's
involved in this with her child. She's born witness to
everything Angela's ever been involved in. I think that most
(13:17):
parents would try to do anything that they possibly could
in order to help their child. I think early on
that people assumed that this is a broad ranging conspiracy,
and immediately they associated Rita with it, that she was
part and parcel. They almost had her sitting at the
kitchen table. Now, I just I just don't see that
(13:37):
that that was the case, you know, relative to to
to these homicides. And if we are to believe that
that Angela is the controlling person you know, this manipulative,
you know, kind of Singhali like character that you know
has sway over the entire family and how things are
going to be done if Angela is that person, to
(13:59):
Rida perceive her daughter as maybe potentially you know, going
to do harm to her, or she would have money
do harmed her, and that's what makes that all the
more harms. We're going to take a break. We'll be
back in a moment. Rita Nucomb spoke extensively about her
(14:24):
family's legacy of abuse again long Crimes Anjenette Levy. Rita
Newcome is somebody we've known about since the arrests were
made in this case back in November of twenty eighteen,
and Rita is Angela Wagner's mother. She claimed that Angela
told her that, you know, if you don't, if you
(14:47):
don't do this, they're going to hurt me. We never
got a clarification on who they are that she said,
they will hurt me if you don't say you did this.
She also talked about how you know, she had been
married to Angela's father of course at Carter and he
was abusive to both of them, I mean physically abusive
and Angela had actually gone into the Air Force at eighteen.
(15:12):
She wanted to get away from all you know or
bad and this whole thing. And we found out that
Angela left the Air Force early allegedly because she was
sexually assaulted, and it was never investigated or reported. According
to Rita, I find it interesting given the fact that
the motive for these murders allegedly was protecting and this
(15:34):
fear that the little girl might be molested. So it
makes you wonder, is that were this concern about sexual
assault or sexual abuse where it originated was with Angela's
time in the Air Force. So I guess we'll find
out as the case progresses. But she talked about not
(15:55):
liking Billy Wagner. I would think that seeing a woman
who's seventy plus us sitting up there crying and reliving
this and admitting to lying for her daughter, I would
think the jury would take that very seriously. But again,
this is George's trial, not not Angela's trial. But still
it paints a picture. You know, it seems like Angela
(16:17):
Wagner has just been painted as the ultimate villain in
this story. In this trial, I mean, nobody says anything
nice about Angela Wagner. In this case, the jury also
heard from two PCI forensics experts, one with special Agent
Brian White, who searched the Wagoner's property in June of
(16:39):
twenty seventeen. He's now a lieutenant with the Madison County
Sheriff's Office in Central Ohio. Special Prosecutor Andrew Wilson questioned
him on the stand and swear a affirm that the
testimony we're about to get you the truth, the whole truth,
and the truth is thank you a nice loud voice.
(17:01):
Can you introduce yourself again to the journey. My name
is Brian White. I'm a lieutenant with the Massive County.
Share yourself. When you were out there searching that area
of two sixty Peterson Road June fourteenth, June fifteenth, twenty seventeen,
did ultimately you find pieces of evidence that you collected
(17:22):
and took into customer Yes we did. And June fourteenth,
June fifteenth, during that search, did you also have Matt
White out there with you, who was from the lab. Yes,
we did, and explain what his role was or what
he did that day. Whenever if we would find something
that was firearms related through shifting, whether it be a
(17:45):
casing of bullet or whatever. Matt would take a look
at it and then he would put it in. He
would basically separate them out into different characteristics or calibers
or whatever. Okay, I'm gonna handy what's been more for
identification purposes? I sticks and give it ssfy. Can you
(18:06):
tell us what's in I stake and give it? Ss fy?
That's uh fire cartridge case two two three caliber collected
June fourteenth and fifteen, twenty seventeen, to sixty Peterson Road.
It's got my name on it, my initials. And again,
(18:26):
is there a two two three firearm listed on AGH two? Yes,
there is. The Wagner's to sixty Peterson Road property, which
was owned by Jake is thirteen miles from where the
roads were executed. It was at this location that White
recovered twenty two caliber shell casings that match the ones
(18:47):
found at the crime scene. The Wagners were in Alaska
at this time. On the Peterson Road property, a second
barn was mid construction, possibly the BCI suspected to cover
up evidence again and Jeanette in June to twenty seventeen BCI.
This was after the Wagners had moved to Alaska, went
(19:09):
back to the Peterson Road property where the Wagners had lived.
They had sold it in May of twenty seventeen, a
month prior, and Brian White, it was like the lead
crime scene agent on this case, and he said that
they went back there with ground penetrating radars looping to
see if there was anything buried underneath their under the
(19:32):
ground of evidentiary value. I mean, at this point in time,
they were still looking for murder weapons. The lead BCI agent,
Ryan Scheider, said there was a new barn that was
being built and constructed on the Peterson Road property at
the time of the homicides. Really, I mean part of
the barn had been erected and it was under construction
(19:53):
at the time of the homicides. And after the homicides,
and so BCI had gotten the new owners to tech
and talk with Jake about this, which stimulated some conversation,
if you would about it. It got George to call Angela.
They discussed it, and Angela was very concerned about which
barn they were searching, you know, which barn, She kept asking,
(20:16):
So they were concerned about the property being searched, and
George sounded like he was the one in charge, like
he was the go between, you know, asking Jake, you know, hey, Jake,
which barn is it? Because Angela wanted to know which barn,
So it sounded like George was very much the boss
in that conversation. At least. BCI criminal intelligence analyst Julia
(20:40):
Evslage also took the stand. She intercepted the Wagner's cell
phone conversations and also monitored their social media activity. The
Wagner's and the Rodents had volleyed Facebook blocks back and forth,
revealing potential grudges, focusing on Hannah Rodin's Facebook As previously mentioned,
she was not currently friends with Jake Wagner. From prior
(21:03):
posts or messaging, they were at one point friends, but
they weren't at the time of the return. She had
blocked George Wagner's profile and Angela had blocked Hannah Rodin's.
There was an assortment of relationships between Tabitha's profiles, as
there were a number of them, but Hannah Rodin and
(21:24):
Tabitha's most recent account were friends at the time of
the return. But in a world where people block each
other routinely online, it's hard to know how much weight
to give someone pressing a button on Facebook and Jeanette.
I guess if there's some big feud going on and
the families are warring with one another, of course you
would have somebody blocked. Or maybe you just block somebody
(21:45):
because you don't want them snooping on your Facebook, or
maybe you just don't want that person in your business.
I don't know. I thought it was strange that George,
who claimed Frankie was a good friend, or at least
his attorneys have claimed that Frankie was a good friend,
that he had had Frankie blocked, He had Hannah May blocked.
You know, all these different people had each other block.
(22:06):
Is it indicative of somebody carrying out out a homicide?
I guess it could be, But as far as like
who who did what, or who planned and covered up,
I mean, I'm not sure it's that relevant. Julia Evslage
also played the court a fascinating intercept of George Wagner
on the family's journey to Alaska. I thought Julia of
(22:29):
A Slage's testimony was interesting when we got to hear
George Wagner. You know, it was really the first time
we or one of the first times, I should say
that we heard his voice, and we heard that he
can become quite agitated. It was after the family had
been stopped at the border in Montana and interrogated, and
(22:49):
he was putting his son in the car, and he
was telling his little boy, who was a toddler at
this time, those people back there that fed you and
played with you their liars. They're bad people. They want
to want to kill us. And the little boy was
saying no, no, no, you know, and things like that.
And I'm just thinking to myself as I'm listening to this,
(23:11):
this is a grown man talking to his child who's
a toddler and telling this child that the people they
just saw at the border were trying to kill them.
And I just found that to be so strange and unbelievable.
I couldn't believe that someone would talk to a toddler
like that. We're going to take a break. We'll be
(23:36):
back in a moment. As the round of testimony wrapped up,
some observers thought there was still an underwhelming amount of
evidence against George Wagner. You know, a lot of times
in this case, it feels like they're doing more to
(23:57):
convict Jake and Angela than they are George. Now, granted
George is not the main player in this case. The
jury really just has to determine whether there's enough evidence
to show that George was part of a conspiracy to
commit and cover up murders. Eight murders. So that's really
what they have to prove. Yeah, we all want to
(24:19):
know the details. The only thing I can see is
that they somehow had it in their minds and it
almost seemed like a circular thing that they were all
feeding off each other, thinking they were the only ones
who could raise these kids and the way they wanted
them raised, whatever way that was. I mean, it just
sounds like it was a very insular life with a
(24:42):
lot of yelling too. More on that next time. For
more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us
on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Pikedon Masker is
produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Alan Wieter, Andrew Arnow,
Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
(25:08):
by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston. The Pike Didmasacar
is a production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios. For
more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Please welcome Markite County Dogwood Festival. Queen Lord, I just
(25:33):
thank you for bringing us all together as a community. Okay,
had all sad all over the house? Who could have
killed eight family members in one by I lost my
best friends and I will never be the same because
of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses.
(25:56):
The killer left to those children lang in their mother's blood.
The word that comes to mind is overkilled. Who was
the master mind? I'm telling you is a framer. I'm
not fitting in prison. One thing I learned, the smaller
the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch
(26:20):
our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre,
premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on
Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November
twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts
are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.
Rita Newcome is somebody we've known about since the arrests
were made in this case back in November of twenty eighteen,
and Rita is Angela Wagner's mother. She claimed that Angela
told her that if you don't do this, they're going
to hurt me. Can you imagine your daughter is basically
begging you not to turn her in, and then you
(00:24):
come to find out that she's essentially bringing you into
a murder investigation and leaving you under the bus. You know,
a lot of times in this case, it feels like
they're doing more to convict Jake and Angela than they
are George regarding custody of his son, what did he
want you to you? Okay, custody? This is the pithon
(00:54):
Massacre season four, episode sixteen, Relevancy. I'm Courtney Armshaw and
a television producer at Katie's Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and
Jeff Shane. We're picking up after last episode's testimony from
Chris Newcomb, Angela Wagner's half brother and uncle to George
and Jake Wagner. On the stand. Now is Chris Newcomb's partner,
(01:17):
Miranda Hughes. She opted out of video recording, but allowed
audio recording of her testimony. It's important to note that
George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not guilty on all accounts,
as has his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming.
Thank you, honor. The state would call his Rida Hughes,
good morning. How are you nervous? Get that a lot
(01:40):
from that chair. Miranda opted out of being videotaped, but
allowed her verbal testimony to be recorded. Randa echoed much
of Chris Newcomb's testimony about Jake and George Wagner's disconcerting
die job. Were there any conversations about that at that
time when you saw them with their hair dyed? Yes?
(02:02):
And what was that? Well that? Why did they do it?
And Jake said he wanted to look like I think
his name is Norman reads. Norman reads. Yeah. I told
him he was far from that. But both JP and
George had their hair dye yes, okay? And did you
know who dyed their hair? Angela? And after the homicides,
(02:26):
did that fact that they had dyed their hair cause
you to think something? Yes? Okay? And what was that?
Made me worry? Why? Because why would you change your
parents and then something like that happened. Randa also backed
up Chris's claims about George's desire for a block pistol.
(02:49):
Was there ever a time where you were present for
helping to obtain a forty caliber block for George? Yes? Sorry, Okay, Well,
(03:11):
I'm going to over rejection the answer stand George reading questions,
can you tell us about that? Yeah? He asked Chris
if he knew of anybody that had a glock. Had
Chris said that he didn't know of anybody at the moment,
(03:31):
but that he could look for him. And when Chris
down one, I think George wanted it. So we met
up with the guy. But George wanted us to go
because Chris had been the one talking to him. Okay,
And did you accompany Chris? Yes? Okay? And do you
remember where you met up with this individual? I don't
(03:52):
know exactly where. I just knew it was a parking ride.
Randa also made some reveiling statements about how George and
Jake asked her and Chris Nucom to secure custody of
their kids in case they went to prison after the
Wagoners were charged in these offenses. Did they want you
(04:13):
and Chris to do certain things. Yes, regarding custody of
his son. What did he want you to do? Get custody?
Get custody? Okay? And how do you know that because
they asked okay, Well, George asked, okay, George asked and
did anybody else ask you to yes? Who else? Angela
(04:37):
and Jake? Okay, they all three asked you, guys to
try to get custody of yes, correct, And did you
get an attorney to do that? Yes? But once the
Wagoners were arrested, Chris and Randa abandoned their custody efforts.
Here's Stephanie and Jeff. This is the very first time
(05:00):
I'm personally hearing that George and Angela and Jake wanted
Chris and Randad to be the guardians of the children.
And of course, you know, if you're getting arrested and
going away for murder, you would want your close family
member to have custody of your child. But you know,
at least one of the children Georgie's in this case
had a mom who could have raised him. That being said, though,
(05:21):
George had told Chris and Randa that he wanted them
to have custody and they were apparently pushing for that
until they actually met Tabby and realized that she was
not who George had made her out to be. She
was actually a good mom and a nice person, and
George's son had a nice life with her. So they
dropped any efforts to get custody of the children after Jake, George,
(05:41):
and Angela and Billy were finally arrested, and for whatever reason,
the Wagners believed that they were the only people who
could raise their children and the only people that should
be raising their children. But it seems like ultimately Chris
and Randa disagreed, and I still don't think we're getting
the full explanation as to why that is, other than
(06:03):
that the Wagoners simply wanted to control these children. Forensic
investigator Joseph Scott Morgan sheds light on the place of
Randy Hughes's testimony in the trial. With Hughes, you know,
she kind of had an insight into their world that
not many other people have. I think, you know, you
kind of get to peek under the covers a little
(06:27):
bit with her. You got to see kind of some
of the insights as it applied to custody issues and
kids and you know, that was the big thing, you know,
because that goes to motive, I think, and we have
to understand that. I think a lot of people are
mistaken when they think about prosecution. Prosecution does not have
(06:47):
proved motive. That's not what the purpose of this is. However,
it does go to getting a feel for what family
dynamic was like, of the familial environment. I think that
that's spirit significant. And you know, as thrilled as we
get about hearing people talk about forensics and getting down
into the nuts and bolts of things, I don't think
(07:08):
that it is as significant as you know, being able
to get a peek into this world. In his cross defense,
attorney Richard Nash tried to pin the fascination with The
Walking Dead on Jake. He was the one who modeled
his killings after the show's lead character, not George the
man on child. And there was some discussion speaking of
(07:29):
hair color. Jake had told you that I think he
wanted to look like Norman Riders. Yes, and Norman readas
is he the main character in the Walking Day, He's
kind of one of the main characters of The Walking Dead. Yes,
And Jake had a fascination with Norman yes, okay, I
(07:51):
saw you really give me a positive response to that,
And you've watched The Walking Debt, yes, and so your
familiarity with the movie. Ye, how do you kill a zombie?
They shoot him in the head. The jury also heard
about the tattoos that Billy, George, and Jake got after
the murders. Jake got one of flaming pistols on his
(08:13):
upper arms. Billy and George's were a bit more problematic again,
and Jeanette after the homicides, you know, about a month
and a half later or so, June of twenty seventeen,
he and Jake and George went and they got tattoos.
Billy's tattoo is a scorpion with eight notches on it,
(08:34):
and the prosecution thinks that that holds some significance. We
have eight victims in this case, and a scorpion, which
can be fatal, is on his right finger, which could
be his trigger finger if he's right handed, and he's
got this tattoo with, you know, signifying something that can
(08:54):
be deadly on his hand. George, on the other hand,
has something that's an eight ball inside a skeleton's mouth
with some aces on the sides of you know, playing
cards aces. I'm not, you know, I don't know if
that's a coincidence. I don't. Obviously, the prosecution feels like
it's significant and it's relevant that the number eight is
(09:16):
common in these tattoos. A scorpion with eight abdominal segments,
a skull biting down on an eight ball, eight rod instead.
Some people see the correlation. Others wonder why it's admissible.
It's kind of strange because we, I guess the judge
is letting the jury look at this and see if
it's relevant. I mean, it's up to the jury to
(09:38):
determine whether or not the tattoos are relevant. I'm not sure,
you know, I could see the scorpion being relevant, possibly
the eight ball in the skeleton's mouth. I think we
just have to wait to see how the testimony plays out.
Joseph Morgan is more dubious. I would have said that
years ago the tattoos may have carried more weight. I
(10:00):
think I'm recalling them on mind, you know, uh, you know,
being for instance, in the Morgue, I remember a couple
of cases where I had people who were legitimately folks
that had worked as assassins in prison. They wind them
dying when they finally get on the outside and they
have the tear drop tattoos. You know, you always knew
that point somebody that had committed a homicide you had
(10:22):
to put chuco crosses on the hands that you know,
there's little crosses with the little radiating lines that you know,
you can tell if somebody's a drug dealer or an
arms dealer, or they're an assassin. They used to tell
these tales. But you know the problem is people use
tattoos now to try to create an image for themselves.
Maybe you could get a tattoo expert to pop up
(10:43):
on stand and say, oh yeah, based on the structure
of this thing, this is generally associated with people that are,
you know, involved in this type of behavior, particularly if
you're talking about gangs and whatnot. But you know, you
can say that all day long. I mean, I've seen
some pretty horrific things. Images of these tattoos that people
(11:04):
walk around in public with they don't make them a killer.
It just means that they've got an interest in this
this interesting art that they're willing to put on their
body and display to the rest of the world. But
that doesn't make you a perpetrator in a homicide. The
(11:25):
jury also heard heart stirring testimony from Rita Nucombe, Angela
Wagner's mother, and Jake and George's grandmother. Nucom declined video
or audio recording of her testimony. Petite with dirty blonde hair.
Nucom is a devout Christian who wrestled with their daughter's
actions after the murders Stephanie and Jeff. Rita was in
(11:47):
tears when she testified about how she initially lied to
investigators to protect her daughter and quote her grandbabies, but
then she soon came clean because of her faith in God,
and of course once the Wagners became actual suspects steph.
What I find interesting is that Rita Newcom falsely told
agents with the Ohio BCI that she had signed these
(12:10):
custody documents involving George and Jake's children as a notary public.
Rita basically testified in court saying that Angela said to her, look, Mom,
if you don't admit this, they're going to really hurt
me and possibly even kill me. And that's a brutal
spot to be And can you imagine your daughter is
basically begging you not to turn her in and then
(12:31):
you come to find out that she's essentially bringing you
into a murder investigation and leaving you under the bus.
She continues to describe the worst days of her life
were the eight days that she spent behind bars. Again.
Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, I think that Rita being
in the midst of this just tutanic storm. There's part
(12:56):
of me if you can, if anybody can, feel kind
of sorry for anybody that's been associated with with these
horrible deeds. I think that, you know, I would listen
probably more toward Rita new in this. You know, she's
involved in this with her child. She's born witness to
everything Angela's ever been involved in. I think that most
(13:17):
parents would try to do anything that they possibly could
in order to help their child. I think early on
that people assumed that this is a broad ranging conspiracy,
and immediately they associated Rita with it, that she was
part and parcel. They almost had her sitting at the
kitchen table. Now, I just I just don't see that
(13:37):
that that was the case, you know, relative to to
to these homicides. And if we are to believe that
that Angela is the controlling person you know, this manipulative,
you know, kind of Singhali like character that you know
has sway over the entire family and how things are
going to be done if Angela is that person, to
(13:59):
Rida perceive her daughter as maybe potentially you know, going
to do harm to her, or she would have money
do harmed her, and that's what makes that all the
more harms. We're going to take a break. We'll be
back in a moment. Rita Nucomb spoke extensively about her
(14:24):
family's legacy of abuse again long Crimes Anjenette Levy. Rita
Newcome is somebody we've known about since the arrests were
made in this case back in November of twenty eighteen,
and Rita is Angela Wagner's mother. She claimed that Angela
told her that, you know, if you don't, if you
(14:47):
don't do this, they're going to hurt me. We never
got a clarification on who they are that she said,
they will hurt me if you don't say you did this.
She also talked about how you know, she had been
married to Angela's father of course at Carter and he
was abusive to both of them, I mean physically abusive
and Angela had actually gone into the Air Force at eighteen.
(15:12):
She wanted to get away from all you know or
bad and this whole thing. And we found out that
Angela left the Air Force early allegedly because she was
sexually assaulted, and it was never investigated or reported. According
to Rita, I find it interesting given the fact that
the motive for these murders allegedly was protecting and this
(15:34):
fear that the little girl might be molested. So it
makes you wonder, is that were this concern about sexual
assault or sexual abuse where it originated was with Angela's
time in the Air Force. So I guess we'll find
out as the case progresses. But she talked about not
(15:55):
liking Billy Wagner. I would think that seeing a woman
who's seventy plus us sitting up there crying and reliving
this and admitting to lying for her daughter, I would
think the jury would take that very seriously. But again,
this is George's trial, not not Angela's trial. But still
it paints a picture. You know, it seems like Angela
(16:17):
Wagner has just been painted as the ultimate villain in
this story. In this trial, I mean, nobody says anything
nice about Angela Wagner. In this case, the jury also
heard from two PCI forensics experts, one with special Agent
Brian White, who searched the Wagoner's property in June of
(16:39):
twenty seventeen. He's now a lieutenant with the Madison County
Sheriff's Office in Central Ohio. Special Prosecutor Andrew Wilson questioned
him on the stand and swear a affirm that the
testimony we're about to get you the truth, the whole truth,
and the truth is thank you a nice loud voice.
(17:01):
Can you introduce yourself again to the journey. My name
is Brian White. I'm a lieutenant with the Massive County.
Share yourself. When you were out there searching that area
of two sixty Peterson Road June fourteenth, June fifteenth, twenty seventeen,
did ultimately you find pieces of evidence that you collected
(17:22):
and took into customer Yes we did. And June fourteenth,
June fifteenth, during that search, did you also have Matt
White out there with you, who was from the lab. Yes,
we did, and explain what his role was or what
he did that day. Whenever if we would find something
that was firearms related through shifting, whether it be a
(17:45):
casing of bullet or whatever. Matt would take a look
at it and then he would put it in. He
would basically separate them out into different characteristics or calibers
or whatever. Okay, I'm gonna handy what's been more for
identification purposes? I sticks and give it ssfy. Can you
(18:06):
tell us what's in I stake and give it? Ss fy?
That's uh fire cartridge case two two three caliber collected
June fourteenth and fifteen, twenty seventeen, to sixty Peterson Road.
It's got my name on it, my initials. And again,
(18:26):
is there a two two three firearm listed on AGH two? Yes,
there is. The Wagner's to sixty Peterson Road property, which
was owned by Jake is thirteen miles from where the
roads were executed. It was at this location that White
recovered twenty two caliber shell casings that match the ones
(18:47):
found at the crime scene. The Wagners were in Alaska
at this time. On the Peterson Road property, a second
barn was mid construction, possibly the BCI suspected to cover
up evidence again and Jeanette in June to twenty seventeen BCI.
This was after the Wagners had moved to Alaska, went
(19:09):
back to the Peterson Road property where the Wagners had lived.
They had sold it in May of twenty seventeen, a
month prior, and Brian White, it was like the lead
crime scene agent on this case, and he said that
they went back there with ground penetrating radars looping to
see if there was anything buried underneath their under the
(19:32):
ground of evidentiary value. I mean, at this point in time,
they were still looking for murder weapons. The lead BCI agent,
Ryan Scheider, said there was a new barn that was
being built and constructed on the Peterson Road property at
the time of the homicides. Really, I mean part of
the barn had been erected and it was under construction
(19:53):
at the time of the homicides. And after the homicides,
and so BCI had gotten the new owners to tech
and talk with Jake about this, which stimulated some conversation,
if you would about it. It got George to call Angela.
They discussed it, and Angela was very concerned about which
barn they were searching, you know, which barn, She kept asking,
(20:16):
So they were concerned about the property being searched, and
George sounded like he was the one in charge, like
he was the go between, you know, asking Jake, you know, hey, Jake,
which barn is it? Because Angela wanted to know which barn,
So it sounded like George was very much the boss
in that conversation. At least. BCI criminal intelligence analyst Julia
(20:40):
Evslage also took the stand. She intercepted the Wagner's cell
phone conversations and also monitored their social media activity. The
Wagner's and the Rodents had volleyed Facebook blocks back and forth,
revealing potential grudges, focusing on Hannah Rodin's Facebook As previously mentioned,
she was not currently friends with Jake Wagner. From prior
(21:03):
posts or messaging, they were at one point friends, but
they weren't at the time of the return. She had
blocked George Wagner's profile and Angela had blocked Hannah Rodin's.
There was an assortment of relationships between Tabitha's profiles, as
there were a number of them, but Hannah Rodin and
(21:24):
Tabitha's most recent account were friends at the time of
the return. But in a world where people block each
other routinely online, it's hard to know how much weight
to give someone pressing a button on Facebook and Jeanette.
I guess if there's some big feud going on and
the families are warring with one another, of course you
would have somebody blocked. Or maybe you just block somebody
(21:45):
because you don't want them snooping on your Facebook, or
maybe you just don't want that person in your business.
I don't know. I thought it was strange that George,
who claimed Frankie was a good friend, or at least
his attorneys have claimed that Frankie was a good friend,
that he had had Frankie blocked, He had Hannah May blocked.
You know, all these different people had each other block.
(22:06):
Is it indicative of somebody carrying out out a homicide?
I guess it could be, But as far as like
who who did what, or who planned and covered up,
I mean, I'm not sure it's that relevant. Julia Evslage
also played the court a fascinating intercept of George Wagner
on the family's journey to Alaska. I thought Julia of
(22:29):
A Slage's testimony was interesting when we got to hear
George Wagner. You know, it was really the first time
we or one of the first times, I should say
that we heard his voice, and we heard that he
can become quite agitated. It was after the family had
been stopped at the border in Montana and interrogated, and
(22:49):
he was putting his son in the car, and he
was telling his little boy, who was a toddler at
this time, those people back there that fed you and
played with you their liars. They're bad people. They want
to want to kill us. And the little boy was
saying no, no, no, you know, and things like that.
And I'm just thinking to myself as I'm listening to this,
(23:11):
this is a grown man talking to his child who's
a toddler and telling this child that the people they
just saw at the border were trying to kill them.
And I just found that to be so strange and unbelievable.
I couldn't believe that someone would talk to a toddler
like that. We're going to take a break. We'll be
(23:36):
back in a moment. As the round of testimony wrapped up,
some observers thought there was still an underwhelming amount of
evidence against George Wagner. You know, a lot of times
in this case, it feels like they're doing more to
(23:57):
convict Jake and Angela than they are George. Now, granted
George is not the main player in this case. The
jury really just has to determine whether there's enough evidence
to show that George was part of a conspiracy to
commit and cover up murders. Eight murders. So that's really
what they have to prove. Yeah, we all want to
(24:19):
know the details. The only thing I can see is
that they somehow had it in their minds and it
almost seemed like a circular thing that they were all
feeding off each other, thinking they were the only ones
who could raise these kids and the way they wanted
them raised, whatever way that was. I mean, it just
sounds like it was a very insular life with a
(24:42):
lot of yelling too. More on that next time. For
more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us
on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Pikedon Masker is
produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Alan Wieter, Andrew Arnow,
Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
(25:08):
by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston. The Pike Didmasacar
is a production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios. For
more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Please welcome Markite County Dogwood Festival. Queen Lord, I just
(25:33):
thank you for bringing us all together as a community. Okay,
had all sad all over the house? Who could have
killed eight family members in one by I lost my
best friends and I will never be the same because
of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses.
(25:56):
The killer left to those children lang in their mother's blood.
The word that comes to mind is overkilled. Who was
the master mind? I'm telling you is a framer. I'm
not fitting in prison. One thing I learned, the smaller
the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch
(26:20):
our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre,
premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on
Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November
twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts
are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Lydecker
Courtney Armstrong
Jeff Shane
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