September 27, 2023 • 31 mins
The murders of four University of Idaho students captured the nation’s attention in the winter of 2022. Could the media circus surrounding the investigation impact the case against Bryan Kohberger?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Since Moscow police began investigating the brutal murders of four
University of Idaho students at an off campus home on
November thirteen, they have claimed it was a targeted attack.
The Leyta County Prosecutor doubled down on those claims, saying
investigators believe one of the victims was the intended target.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KT Studios
and iHeartRadio, episode eight The Circus of Murder Courtney Armstrong,
a television producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane,
and Connor Powell, as the mystery of the brutal murderers
(00:52):
of Keille Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan shape
and unfolded. The national spotlight on the case grew brighter
when Brian Coburger was arrested at his parents' home on
December thirtieth. That public spotlight intensified. The newspaper headlines and
(01:13):
breaking news alerts for the criminologists turned killer practically wrote themselves. Reporters,
TV anchors, crime writers and legal analysts poured over the
probable cause Affidavid, laying out the case against Coburger. As
they flocked to Pennsylvania and then Idaho to cover his extradition, hearing,
and first court appearance in Moscow. The worldwide appetite for
(01:36):
information about the investigations seemed impossible to satisfy. But before
Coburger even arrived in Idaho, Latta County Judge Megan Marshall
issued a non dissemination order. The move barred attorneys, law
enforcement officials, and anyone associated with the investigation from talking
about the case. Judge Marshall defended the sweeping decree, saying
(01:57):
the gag order was needed to protect Brian Coburger's right
to a fair trial. Two weeks later, Judge Marshall expanded
the gag order to include the families and lawyers for
the victims from speaking publicly. Journalists were furious, and more
than twenty media organizations challenged the restrictions. So too did
the lawyer for Kley Gonsalvas's family. Attorney Shannon Gray, argued
(02:21):
the gag order violated the family's right to free speech
and silence the victim's family's voice while those closest to
the investigation were barred from talking about the case. Public
demand for information only intensified. Curious spectators and wannabe detectives
on social media became obsessed with the case, and Brian
Coburger tours passed. The home on King Rhode in Moscow
(02:43):
became a regular occurrence. Chat forums on websites like Reddit
exploded and its online community both fervently followed the investigation
and at times inserted itself into the story, sifting through
the facts, speculation, and rumors of the investigation. While the
gag order prevents leaks and has kept the pre trial
hearings orderly, a circus has developed outside of the courtroom
(03:05):
on social media and chatforms like Reddit. From a distance,
the circus seems harmless, but for any involved in trying
the case, the fear is the circus could seriously impact
the prosecution and trial of Brian Coberger.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I was actually late to finding out the story. I
think it was on Thanksgiving. My cousins were actually all
talking about it at Thanksgiving table, and I had no
idea that this aid honestly occurred.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
By day. This anonymous redditor works in a New York
City office.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I started looking into it just on my own through
news articles, and then my cousin actually suggested I look
on Reddit if I want to find the real deal.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But by night he's part of the hundreds of thousands
of people who flocked to sites like Reddit to sift
through the latest information in the University of Idaho murders
and debate the many aspects of the Brian Coberger investigation.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And I actually had never used Reddit, I even know
how to use it, how to find communities, posts, etc.
And then she showed me one community, and then I
just got immediately sucked in and went so deep into
every crevice of every theory at that time and now
can't get enough.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
In the immediate days and weeks following the gruesome murders,
the number of discussion groups on websites like Reddit and
Facebook exploded. With no name suspects in the murder investigation,
internet sleuths began pouring over the few details of the case.
As we previously discussed, some Internet users incorrectly identified innocent
(04:43):
people and charged them on social media with crimes they
were innocent enough. Others tried to find links between the
few people randomly caught up in the tragic events, such
as the food truck employees and the door dash driver
who delivered late night snacks to Xana Kernodle. Even the
personal lives of the victims' families became fodder for the
chat forums. When Xana Kernodle's mother, Kara, was detained on
(05:07):
November nineteenth on drug related charges, many on the Internet
tried to link her to the murders. Here's the anonymous
Reddit user speaking with producer Jeff Shane.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
People are invested in the story. They wanted to go longer,
and like, I can't help but like read some of
these comments and like see some justification in it. It's
kind of like the saying where there's smokeler's fire, and
so everyone kind of latches onto everything. So whether it's
that Uber driver that talked about the house to someone
that combined with the fact that a couple of their
(05:43):
parents were drug addicts or were arrested on drug charges,
that maybe some of them seemed on drugs and police
videos when they were when police had to show up
for noise complaints, and so then you strain all these
individual things together. But then the fact that Brian as
an ext drug addict, So then I don't know, like
it's hard to make sense of all of that, and
(06:05):
everything kind of seems like a coincidence one way or
the other, that maybe Brian was maybe it was drugs.
Maybe Brian was involved because it was involving drugs, that's
one way to make the connection. Or maybe because it
was drugs and serious drugs and their parents that this
is like a cartel and the kids had to pay
for something the parents did. I mean, you could just
(06:27):
go so crazy, but still kind of plausible.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I'm curious what your answer is, why this case, Why
do you think you're so invested in it?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
You know, it's really interestingly, I don't know. My first
thought about why I was interested in it is because
it feels like it could happen to anyone in a
college town like that when you hear on reddite people
being like, oh, it's a huge party house. Oh they
didn't lock the door. Okay, but we didn't lock the
(07:02):
door either, And there were strangers in all the time,
you know, eight and out. You didn't know who anyone
could be, if they were supposed to be there, if
they weren't, And so I think part of it is
around the fact that it could just happen to anyone.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
When Brian Kolberger then an unknown twenty eight year old
criminology student, was arrested on December thirtieth, nearly seven weeks
after the murders. The chat forums responded with a flurry
of reactions.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
When they made the arrest of Brian end of December.
It's kind of like the Reddit community was kind of
like pissed, not whether or not at that time it
was him or not, but that kind of their rogue
investigation was over. So the boards went quiet for a
while right after New Year's and then I think think
(08:00):
it was when the aff and David came out, when
the list of items that they seized or his house
came out. Then it reignited. Everyone kind of lit a
fire into everyone's ass to challenge some more concrete information
about him.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Here's Jeff and Stephanie.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Since Coburger's arrest, sites like Reddit and TikTok have poured
over every detail of his life and his possible connection
to the victims.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
And after Kaylee's father suggested that there may in fact
have been a connection between Coburger and his daughter, many
people online speculated that Coburger was literally stalking Kaylee and
that maybe that was the motive for the murder.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah stuff. One poster speculated that Kaylee or Madison met
Coburger at the Mad Greek, the restaurant they worked at downtown, saying,
didn't Kaylee and Madison work at a vegan restaurant? Isn't
he vegan? And for the record, we've said in the
past Mad Greek, where they worked, is a pizza shop,
not a vegan restaurant, and the owner has public said
there is no record of Coburger ever eating there, but
(09:02):
that has not stopped the online rumor mill.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Others also continued the debate about Coburger's possible motive, saying
that Ethan and Keiyley were just in the wrong place
at the wrong time, and that maybe Madison and Xana
were the real targets since Coburger actually went to their bedroom. Again,
so much of this is just speculation.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
But through all these posts, one thing is clear. Uninformed
theories become facts, and misinformation spreads like wildfire.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Everyone becomes a lawyer. You don't have to prove that
he's innocent, you just have to prove that he's not guilty.
And so with that mentality, everyone is just looking for
every single hole that they can anywhere, whether it's cell
phone tower pings that put him put him there thirteen times,
but kind of cell phone tower ping from twenty five
(09:55):
miles away, which would still put him where he was
at home. When the police put up the original request
or the identification of the Hyundai, they said it was
like twenty ten or to a twenty thirteen model. Then
why all of a sudden did they figure out it
was a twenty fifteen model and it was actually Brian's
And how can an expert get this twenty ten to
(10:18):
twenty thirteen classification wrong? Then there's another thing that they're
poking holes in around the sheath, And like the touch DNA,
it went to a lab in Idaho first and nothing
was found apparently, and then it was transferred to a
lab in Texas. That's where they found the touch DNA
(10:41):
that matched Brian's. And whether or not that's just because
it's a better lab, or did police tamper with it
during transit frame Brian doing that.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I've never read that that even the sheaf got transferred.
Is that officially true?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Or so? That's think with this whole Reddit thing is
when you read seventy theories about something and you can
find yourself believing every single one. You can't. I can't
keep track of honestly, what is real and what is not,
and what's confirmed or not. It just all gets jumbled in.
So then if you have a bunch of potentially true facts,
(11:23):
and you can string them together in any any coordinated effort,
you can make yourself believe anything.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
It doesn't really matter what's true or not true. It
just matters if you get the most up votes.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I guess, yeah, yeah, seriously, if you get the most
up votes, or if it's the most sensational of all
the facts that I read that day, I'll remember that fact,
and then when I read a new fact, I'll compare
it to that, and I can string them together and
make myself believe Brian's wrongly being held right now.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
What do you think happened? He did it, but why
and what are the circumstances.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I think he was obsessed with one of them. I
don't know which one it was, Whether it's Maddie or Kaylee,
I don't know. I think it is a lot simpler,
which I think is also why people are trying to
grasp for straws with all these other firefetch theories. I
think it was obsessed with one of them. I kind
of believe maybe one of them at a restaurant they
were working at, and then stalk them. And then I
(12:21):
don't know what the motive would be that night, because
then it gets weird with all the other people in
the house. The one thing I will say, just what
I keep saying, I think it's simple, But then I'm like,
with all those people in the house, how could one
person have done it? And then like, was he maybe.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Just a getaway car?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
But do you see how I'm spirally from something very
simple I just believed, And I can't stay on that
very simple fact because then it does just get complicated.
When everything first happened, everyone was obsessed with this door dash.
Now then we got the victim, then had Brian as
the potent, and now everyone's gotten so far down so
(13:04):
many rabbit holes. Why have we forgotten about this door
dash man? And like it hasn't been a topic of
conversation when it feels like if he was there four
minutes or seven minutes before everything started, that seems really
like tight timing.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. This far reaching and endless public debate where
information is twisted and distorted is one of the main
reasons Lada County Judge Megan Marshall initially instituted and expanded
(13:42):
the gag order surrounding the case. Both Coburger's attorneys and
the prosecution support the gag order to protect Coburger's right
to a fair trial. Six months after Coburger's arrest, the
court's hurt emotion in June by a coalition of media
organizations to lift the gag order.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
The media coalition was fighting for the non dissemination order
to be altered in an effort to be able to
report more of the facts of this case.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Wendy Olsen, an attorney representing journalists, argued the gag order
leads to rampant speculation and removing it would improve the
coverage of the case, adding that there were other tools
the legal system could use to protect a defendant's right
to a fair trial. This includes moving the trial to
a different city or asking potential jurors if they are
willing to be impartially in the case. The judge dismissed
(14:30):
those ideas complicated, time consuming, and costly. Shannon Gray, an
attorney for the Gonsalvest family also pushed the judge to
lift the restrictions, saying he should be able to speak
for Keiley's family. The judge, however, seemed unlikely to ease
the restrictions during the six hour hearing. The media coalition
also requested that cameras be allowed in the courtroom for
(14:52):
the trial, and argued that media coverage and publicity in
and of itself is not prejudicial. However, Cobacker's attorneys pushed
back on the request, saying that past descriptions of Coburger
published in print as quote cold and like a demon,
and video clips of him blankly staring forward in court
could prejudice potential jurors against Coburger. Leida County Judge Joe
(15:16):
Judge said he would think about the motions and would
issue a written order in the days to come. Gag orders,
while rare, are often used in high profile cases, like
in the Half Bay Moon murder investigation and the jodiariastrial,
or any case where the national spotlight burns bright.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
The personal investment is interesting. I mean I even see
it on comment boards and stuff like that. People are
so interested. We had this interest in it from the
start before Brian Kolberger's name is associated with the case
right because it was this killing in a small town
for college students at the precipice of beginning their lives,
(15:58):
and that in and of itself, we've created drama around
the case before mister Kulberker's name came into it.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Kirk Nurmi was Jodiarius his defense lawyer. In twenty thirteen,
she was tried and convicted of murdering her ex boyfriend
Travis Alexander. Her trial remains a cautionary tale of what
can go wrong when a circus like atmosphere is allowed
to develop around a high profile trial. Cheers erupted as.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Soon as look back. Now we're at the ten year
anniversary of the area's verdict, and you know, you can
see pictures of people crowding the sidewalk between the court
buildings just to be there for the verdict.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
History is full of high profile murder investigations and trials
that turn into public spectacles. The Jodiaria's trial surpassed almost
all of them because it was one of the first
significant social media events of the social media era. At first,
the case received very little attention outside of Arizona, despite
the sensational details.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Travis Alexander was found dead in his shower. He was
shot in the face, stabbed twenty seven times, and his
throat was slit from ear to ear.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Friends of Travis Alexander found his mutilated body in his
apartment after he failed to show up to work. It
was a gruesome murder scene. Among the evidence police recovered
from the site was a digital camera with sexually explicit
photos of Arius and Alexander from the day he was murdered.
The final shot was of him bleeding profusely in the bathroom.
(17:37):
Investigators also found a bloody palm print and DNA belonging
to Jodiarius. Later in the summer, Arius was arrested in
charge with murder. The first interest in the case only
appeared when Jodyarius gave a few jailhouse interviews.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
No jury is going to convict me. Why not?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Because I'm innocent and you can mark my words on
that one.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
No Jerry will convict me.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But even the initial interest following Jodi Aarres's declaration of
innocence on TV was minor compared to the current fascination
with the University of Idaho murders.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
It's a little different than the Coburger situation, and it
wasn't quite in the headline the way Colberger was. I mean,
you think about Coburger the murder, so his name wasn't
associated with it yet, of course, but those murders in Moscow,
being in a college down when it was a who
done it certainly caught the attention of the nation before
any arrests were made. But Coolburgers was right from the
(18:32):
start when these bodies were found, the manhunt was underware.
The media got onto the man hunt and certainly was
there all throughout his apprehension his arrest. There's a huge
media presence in this case from the geta.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Because of this intense public interest. Every minor police announcement
or court appearance by Coburger is followed, reported on, and
heavily scrutinized. This interest, however, could potentially impact Cooberg to
a fair trial.
Speaker 6 (19:03):
If I were to file a pre trial motion in
the area's trial, I would walk into court and walk
out like it was John Smith. No one would care.
When Colberger files emotion and they have a court hearing,
everybody's going to care. And that's the distinctive, and.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
That makes it harder because no one likes to do
their job under a microscope.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
No one likes to do their job under a microscope
because it it just becomes more of a production. It
alters the court of public opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Right, this unique and intense interest by the media and
the public has the potential to alter the jury pool.
Speaker 6 (19:40):
Ultimately, all these things are going to be in the headlines,
and they are ultimately going to be things that will
be of consequence when vordaire happens, when the ultimately begin
to sit the jury. So, for example, this motion requesting DNA, right,
if I were to followed the similar motion during areas
a prospected jury would not have known about that. More
than likely in this case that might not be true.
(20:03):
And so it's not the microscope so much as is
the publicity and how that will infect a potential jury
because ultimately, you think about it, think about it, what
the rubber meets the road a trial, not in all
these different circumstances, right, the rubber meets the road at trial.
(20:24):
So when you have publicity engaging from the get go,
from before a suspect is identified, opinions for potential jurors
begin to form.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
It's impossible to fully circumvent those preconceived notions. Is that
what you're saying, right.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
It can be, And it also raises the prospect of
covert jurors. Let's say somebody decides they know Cobird's being
framed or they know he's guilty, they could get on
that panel and dodge their way into a trial, or
if they wanted to be on the panel in hopes
of stinking fame. And so that's why I think the
(21:01):
difference is so huge, Jeff. But if you think about
the dynamics of where the rubber meets the road, that jury,
that publicity and Coburger began from the discovery of the
murders makes things qualitatively different.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
How did you as a public defender and how do
you think Coburger's attorneys will combat that? I mean, certainly
the jury is not supposed to take that into account,
but how can they.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
Not, right, And there's no jury there, So there's this
massive public and the public to consume the information before
they ever become jurors or potential jurors. Right, So you know,
there's a lot of things I think that are going
on at this point in the case of his attorneys,
and because the death penalty is the specter that looms
(21:46):
over this case. Really, what his attorneys are doing now
are tasked with not only investigating the case and challenging
the evidence that the state is bringing forward in their
effort to convict mister Colberger of murder. They are looking
at investigating his life from conception to the day of
his rest so they can create a case for mitigation.
(22:09):
And while this is going on, of course, they have
to make this do all this, I guess, with the
specter of the presumption of guilt in the court of
public opinion and trying to fight against that, trying to
fight the evidence of the work.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Because Coburger's case, like Jodiarius Is, involves the potential for
the death penalty, Coburger's lawyers must work to both build
a defense and also an argument against the death penalty
if he is convicted. The intense public interest makes defending
Coburger challenging.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
Ultimately, they're going to be fighting this presumption of guilt,
of course, and they're going to want to do everything
they can to collect all the evidence. You know, we
see that they're going after the DNA. They believe the
DNA might be exploratory means favorable to their clients. So
they're going to go after those things, and they're going
to go after other things, like in terms of building
(23:06):
a case for life, They're going to go after school records,
They're going to go after everything in his past that
might be help shed some light on if in fact
he did commit this case, why a jury should grant
him wife. So there's really two prongs that are going
on here, and it certainly made much more difficult without
media spector because anybody that could maybe be helpful to
(23:29):
mister Colberger probably too excited about coming forward because of
that media spector being involved in the case. Because you know,
a death penalty case is something that automatically goes up
to the US Supreme Court if a sentence of death
is imposed, they are going to need to be very
vigilant in the defense they provide mister Colberger. And that
(23:51):
is on two fronts, both for life and for confronting
the evidence. Presenting a defense in a case like this,
in the death penalty case is not a job for
the timid. I mean, you have to go forward in
the face of all this vitriol against your client and
go forward and seek out that exculpatory information, So they're
(24:12):
going to do that. We've seen that they are, you know,
in terms of the preliminary hearing, they or seeking the
surviving roommates testimony.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
By the time Jody Arius went to trial, four years
after murdering Travis Alexander, interest in the case had grown,
but it exploded once the jerry was selected and the
trial began.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
When Jody Arius finally reached trial in twenty thirteen, it
was a case that had been going on for years
and the publicity was comparatively small before the trial. People
tend to think about her trial as being a huge sensation,
and it was, but it wasn't a huge sensation really
until it began. He had given those interviews with ABC,
(24:57):
Inside Editions, et cetera. The Oldburger case is a media
sensation from the start. So ultimately, when they get to
the point is that they are picking the jury, it's
not going to be whether or not they the jury
has heard anything about the case. Of the potential jury
numbers have hurt anything about the case. It's whether they
formed judgments about the case that cannot be altered. There
(25:19):
are people out there now who have heard the case,
have seen what they've seen and believe that he is guilty.
There might be people that believe that he is longly charged.
And what you need to do when you're searching out
a jury to find people that are not formally held
in the belief and is that are open to hearing
the evidence. Because right now, let's say that the evidence
(25:42):
of the public knows is you know, just a scant
portion of what is known to the police, the authilities,
and presumably the defense attorneys.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
That's an interesting point that we think we know everything
and we know just probably a fraction, is what you're saying.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
Yeah, I would say generally speaking, the public probably now
is about ten percent of the actual evidence it's really
going on in the case.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Let's stop here for another break. With so much of
the information and evidence still yet to be made public,
the Idaho judicial system is trying to combat what will
likely be a massive cultural event.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
When Colberger goes to trial. It is going to be
a lot like the Area's trial when it became more
popular in the public. Zite, guys, I mean, if cameras
are allowed in the courtroom, obviously we are going to
see every bit of movement in the courtroom. We're going
to see everything that surrounds the trial outside of the trial.
(26:52):
You know, we're going to see packed courtrooms, We're going
to see people standing outside. I think when you, mister
Kolberger did his case reach trial, you're going to see
that kind of mentality, that kind of It becomes a
trial in the courtroom as best as you can, but
it becomes a cultural event as well.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Jodiaris was ultimately convicted of murder and sentenced to life
in prison, but many legal analysts believe the circus surrounding
the trial impacted the prosecution's ability to secure the death penalty.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
As someone who's been in it and has now removed
from it, is that okay you think? Or is that
an unhealthy interest that we as a society have.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
It's hard to say, but I hate to see trials
become sporting events, right, and justice has to prevail more
than more than anything, right, And we just you know,
we see people that offer testimonies under scrutiny, judges under
scrutiny for having done nothing. It becomes closer to public stoning,
doesn't it. When we expose and attack people for their
(27:55):
involvement in these cases.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Here again, Jeff and.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Stephanie Jody Aaris's trial started on December tenth, twenty twelve,
and in the scheme of things, that was the infancy
stage of social media. Sure, read It and Twitter existed,
but people didn't use them like they do today.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Makes you wonder what the online community would have done
to that case if it happened today.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
And of course Jody Arius was found guilty for murder,
but there really was this pitchfork mentality back then, and
it probably would have been much more intense today. In
twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
With so much at stake, including Coburger's right to a
fair trial, the presiding judge during Coburger's hearings appeared unwilling
to remove the gag order. However, nearly seven months after
Coburger was arrested, and in response to the motion to
ease the gag order, Judge Joe Judge did agree to
loosen the non dissemination order.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Prosecution and defense attorneys can now speak on some matters
related to the case.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
The families of the four victims are still allowed to
speak publicly, but their lawyers remain barred from top Reddit,
along with several other social media websites, has tried to
clean up some of the most outrageous group chats. The
subreddit Brian Coberger's Girls, which was known for discussions about
Coburger's skincare routine and fawning posts about how hot the
(29:15):
twenty eight year old is, was banned for repeatedly violating
Reddit's code of conduct. Despite this small change, millions of
true grime enthusiasts and would be crime solvers continue to
dissect and debate every aspect of the murders on social
media and in public forums across the country. More on
(29:38):
that next time. For more information on the case and
relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios.
The Idaho Mascer is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane,
Connor Powell, Chris Bargo, Gabriel Castillo, and me Courtney Armstrong.
Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston.
(30:03):
The Idaho Massacre is a production of iHeart Radio and
Katie's Studios. For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 7 (30:17):
I'm Diana. You may know as Body Moving, My Friend
and I John Green were featured in the Netflix documentary
Don't f with Cats. On our new podcast, True Crimes
of John and Deiana were turning our online investigative skills
to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and most ignored cases.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Please say.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Thirty three year old bride Again was shot dead, gunned
down in front of his two year old daughter.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
Detectives confirmed that it was a targeted attack.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
It appears to be an execution style of assassination.
Speaker 7 (30:46):
This is very active, so we have to be careful.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I've heard that there's a house and have some bodies
in the basement.
Speaker 6 (30:52):
I knew.
Speaker 7 (30:53):
I just knew something was wrong.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Maybe there's something more sinister at play than just one
young girl going missing.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
If you know something, heard something, Please it's never too
late to.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Do the right thing.
Speaker 7 (31:07):
This is True Crimes with John and Deianna, the production.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. Justice is something that takes
different shapes or formed.
Since Moscow police began investigating the brutal murders of four
University of Idaho students at an off campus home on
November thirteen, they have claimed it was a targeted attack.
The Leyta County Prosecutor doubled down on those claims, saying
investigators believe one of the victims was the intended target.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KT Studios
and iHeartRadio, episode eight The Circus of Murder Courtney Armstrong,
a television producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane,
and Connor Powell, as the mystery of the brutal murderers
(00:52):
of Keille Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan shape
and unfolded. The national spotlight on the case grew brighter
when Brian Coburger was arrested at his parents' home on
December thirtieth. That public spotlight intensified. The newspaper headlines and
(01:13):
breaking news alerts for the criminologists turned killer practically wrote themselves. Reporters,
TV anchors, crime writers and legal analysts poured over the
probable cause Affidavid, laying out the case against Coburger. As
they flocked to Pennsylvania and then Idaho to cover his extradition, hearing,
and first court appearance in Moscow. The worldwide appetite for
(01:36):
information about the investigations seemed impossible to satisfy. But before
Coburger even arrived in Idaho, Latta County Judge Megan Marshall
issued a non dissemination order. The move barred attorneys, law
enforcement officials, and anyone associated with the investigation from talking
about the case. Judge Marshall defended the sweeping decree, saying
(01:57):
the gag order was needed to protect Brian Coburger's right
to a fair trial. Two weeks later, Judge Marshall expanded
the gag order to include the families and lawyers for
the victims from speaking publicly. Journalists were furious, and more
than twenty media organizations challenged the restrictions. So too did
the lawyer for Kley Gonsalvas's family. Attorney Shannon Gray, argued
(02:21):
the gag order violated the family's right to free speech
and silence the victim's family's voice while those closest to
the investigation were barred from talking about the case. Public
demand for information only intensified. Curious spectators and wannabe detectives
on social media became obsessed with the case, and Brian
Coburger tours passed. The home on King Rhode in Moscow
(02:43):
became a regular occurrence. Chat forums on websites like Reddit
exploded and its online community both fervently followed the investigation
and at times inserted itself into the story, sifting through
the facts, speculation, and rumors of the investigation. While the
gag order prevents leaks and has kept the pre trial
hearings orderly, a circus has developed outside of the courtroom
(03:05):
on social media and chatforms like Reddit. From a distance,
the circus seems harmless, but for any involved in trying
the case, the fear is the circus could seriously impact
the prosecution and trial of Brian Coberger.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I was actually late to finding out the story. I
think it was on Thanksgiving. My cousins were actually all
talking about it at Thanksgiving table, and I had no
idea that this aid honestly occurred.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
By day. This anonymous redditor works in a New York
City office.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I started looking into it just on my own through
news articles, and then my cousin actually suggested I look
on Reddit if I want to find the real deal.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But by night he's part of the hundreds of thousands
of people who flocked to sites like Reddit to sift
through the latest information in the University of Idaho murders
and debate the many aspects of the Brian Coberger investigation.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And I actually had never used Reddit, I even know
how to use it, how to find communities, posts, etc.
And then she showed me one community, and then I
just got immediately sucked in and went so deep into
every crevice of every theory at that time and now
can't get enough.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
In the immediate days and weeks following the gruesome murders,
the number of discussion groups on websites like Reddit and
Facebook exploded. With no name suspects in the murder investigation,
internet sleuths began pouring over the few details of the case.
As we previously discussed, some Internet users incorrectly identified innocent
(04:43):
people and charged them on social media with crimes they
were innocent enough. Others tried to find links between the
few people randomly caught up in the tragic events, such
as the food truck employees and the door dash driver
who delivered late night snacks to Xana Kernodle. Even the
personal lives of the victims' families became fodder for the
chat forums. When Xana Kernodle's mother, Kara, was detained on
(05:07):
November nineteenth on drug related charges, many on the Internet
tried to link her to the murders. Here's the anonymous
Reddit user speaking with producer Jeff Shane.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
People are invested in the story. They wanted to go longer,
and like, I can't help but like read some of
these comments and like see some justification in it. It's
kind of like the saying where there's smokeler's fire, and
so everyone kind of latches onto everything. So whether it's
that Uber driver that talked about the house to someone
that combined with the fact that a couple of their
(05:43):
parents were drug addicts or were arrested on drug charges,
that maybe some of them seemed on drugs and police
videos when they were when police had to show up
for noise complaints, and so then you strain all these
individual things together. But then the fact that Brian as
an ext drug addict, So then I don't know, like
it's hard to make sense of all of that, and
(06:05):
everything kind of seems like a coincidence one way or
the other, that maybe Brian was maybe it was drugs.
Maybe Brian was involved because it was involving drugs, that's
one way to make the connection. Or maybe because it
was drugs and serious drugs and their parents that this
is like a cartel and the kids had to pay
for something the parents did. I mean, you could just
(06:27):
go so crazy, but still kind of plausible.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I'm curious what your answer is, why this case, Why
do you think you're so invested in it?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
You know, it's really interestingly, I don't know. My first
thought about why I was interested in it is because
it feels like it could happen to anyone in a
college town like that when you hear on reddite people
being like, oh, it's a huge party house. Oh they
didn't lock the door. Okay, but we didn't lock the
(07:02):
door either, And there were strangers in all the time,
you know, eight and out. You didn't know who anyone
could be, if they were supposed to be there, if
they weren't, And so I think part of it is
around the fact that it could just happen to anyone.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
When Brian Kolberger then an unknown twenty eight year old
criminology student, was arrested on December thirtieth, nearly seven weeks
after the murders. The chat forums responded with a flurry
of reactions.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
When they made the arrest of Brian end of December.
It's kind of like the Reddit community was kind of
like pissed, not whether or not at that time it
was him or not, but that kind of their rogue
investigation was over. So the boards went quiet for a
while right after New Year's and then I think think
(08:00):
it was when the aff and David came out, when
the list of items that they seized or his house
came out. Then it reignited. Everyone kind of lit a
fire into everyone's ass to challenge some more concrete information
about him.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Here's Jeff and Stephanie.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Since Coburger's arrest, sites like Reddit and TikTok have poured
over every detail of his life and his possible connection
to the victims.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
And after Kaylee's father suggested that there may in fact
have been a connection between Coburger and his daughter, many
people online speculated that Coburger was literally stalking Kaylee and
that maybe that was the motive for the murder.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah stuff. One poster speculated that Kaylee or Madison met
Coburger at the Mad Greek, the restaurant they worked at downtown, saying,
didn't Kaylee and Madison work at a vegan restaurant? Isn't
he vegan? And for the record, we've said in the
past Mad Greek, where they worked, is a pizza shop,
not a vegan restaurant, and the owner has public said
there is no record of Coburger ever eating there, but
(09:02):
that has not stopped the online rumor mill.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Others also continued the debate about Coburger's possible motive, saying
that Ethan and Keiyley were just in the wrong place
at the wrong time, and that maybe Madison and Xana
were the real targets since Coburger actually went to their bedroom. Again,
so much of this is just speculation.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
But through all these posts, one thing is clear. Uninformed
theories become facts, and misinformation spreads like wildfire.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Everyone becomes a lawyer. You don't have to prove that
he's innocent, you just have to prove that he's not guilty.
And so with that mentality, everyone is just looking for
every single hole that they can anywhere, whether it's cell
phone tower pings that put him put him there thirteen times,
but kind of cell phone tower ping from twenty five
(09:55):
miles away, which would still put him where he was
at home. When the police put up the original request
or the identification of the Hyundai, they said it was
like twenty ten or to a twenty thirteen model. Then
why all of a sudden did they figure out it
was a twenty fifteen model and it was actually Brian's
And how can an expert get this twenty ten to
(10:18):
twenty thirteen classification wrong? Then there's another thing that they're
poking holes in around the sheath, And like the touch DNA,
it went to a lab in Idaho first and nothing
was found apparently, and then it was transferred to a
lab in Texas. That's where they found the touch DNA
(10:41):
that matched Brian's. And whether or not that's just because
it's a better lab, or did police tamper with it
during transit frame Brian doing that.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I've never read that that even the sheaf got transferred.
Is that officially true?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Or so? That's think with this whole Reddit thing is
when you read seventy theories about something and you can
find yourself believing every single one. You can't. I can't
keep track of honestly, what is real and what is not,
and what's confirmed or not. It just all gets jumbled in.
So then if you have a bunch of potentially true facts,
(11:23):
and you can string them together in any any coordinated effort,
you can make yourself believe anything.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
It doesn't really matter what's true or not true. It
just matters if you get the most up votes.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I guess, yeah, yeah, seriously, if you get the most
up votes, or if it's the most sensational of all
the facts that I read that day, I'll remember that fact,
and then when I read a new fact, I'll compare
it to that, and I can string them together and
make myself believe Brian's wrongly being held right now.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
What do you think happened? He did it, but why
and what are the circumstances.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I think he was obsessed with one of them. I
don't know which one it was, Whether it's Maddie or Kaylee,
I don't know. I think it is a lot simpler,
which I think is also why people are trying to
grasp for straws with all these other firefetch theories. I
think it was obsessed with one of them. I kind
of believe maybe one of them at a restaurant they
were working at, and then stalk them. And then I
(12:21):
don't know what the motive would be that night, because
then it gets weird with all the other people in
the house. The one thing I will say, just what
I keep saying, I think it's simple, But then I'm like,
with all those people in the house, how could one
person have done it? And then like, was he maybe.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Just a getaway car?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
But do you see how I'm spirally from something very
simple I just believed, And I can't stay on that
very simple fact because then it does just get complicated.
When everything first happened, everyone was obsessed with this door dash.
Now then we got the victim, then had Brian as
the potent, and now everyone's gotten so far down so
(13:04):
many rabbit holes. Why have we forgotten about this door
dash man? And like it hasn't been a topic of
conversation when it feels like if he was there four
minutes or seven minutes before everything started, that seems really
like tight timing.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. This far reaching and endless public debate where
information is twisted and distorted is one of the main
reasons Lada County Judge Megan Marshall initially instituted and expanded
(13:42):
the gag order surrounding the case. Both Coburger's attorneys and
the prosecution support the gag order to protect Coburger's right
to a fair trial. Six months after Coburger's arrest, the
court's hurt emotion in June by a coalition of media
organizations to lift the gag order.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
The media coalition was fighting for the non dissemination order
to be altered in an effort to be able to
report more of the facts of this case.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Wendy Olsen, an attorney representing journalists, argued the gag order
leads to rampant speculation and removing it would improve the
coverage of the case, adding that there were other tools
the legal system could use to protect a defendant's right
to a fair trial. This includes moving the trial to
a different city or asking potential jurors if they are
willing to be impartially in the case. The judge dismissed
(14:30):
those ideas complicated, time consuming, and costly. Shannon Gray, an
attorney for the Gonsalvest family also pushed the judge to
lift the restrictions, saying he should be able to speak
for Keiley's family. The judge, however, seemed unlikely to ease
the restrictions during the six hour hearing. The media coalition
also requested that cameras be allowed in the courtroom for
(14:52):
the trial, and argued that media coverage and publicity in
and of itself is not prejudicial. However, Cobacker's attorneys pushed
back on the request, saying that past descriptions of Coburger
published in print as quote cold and like a demon,
and video clips of him blankly staring forward in court
could prejudice potential jurors against Coburger. Leida County Judge Joe
(15:16):
Judge said he would think about the motions and would
issue a written order in the days to come. Gag orders,
while rare, are often used in high profile cases, like
in the Half Bay Moon murder investigation and the jodiariastrial,
or any case where the national spotlight burns bright.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
The personal investment is interesting. I mean I even see
it on comment boards and stuff like that. People are
so interested. We had this interest in it from the
start before Brian Kolberger's name is associated with the case
right because it was this killing in a small town
for college students at the precipice of beginning their lives,
(15:58):
and that in and of itself, we've created drama around
the case before mister Kulberker's name came into it.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Kirk Nurmi was Jodiarius his defense lawyer. In twenty thirteen,
she was tried and convicted of murdering her ex boyfriend
Travis Alexander. Her trial remains a cautionary tale of what
can go wrong when a circus like atmosphere is allowed
to develop around a high profile trial. Cheers erupted as.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Soon as look back. Now we're at the ten year
anniversary of the area's verdict, and you know, you can
see pictures of people crowding the sidewalk between the court
buildings just to be there for the verdict.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
History is full of high profile murder investigations and trials
that turn into public spectacles. The Jodiaria's trial surpassed almost
all of them because it was one of the first
significant social media events of the social media era. At first,
the case received very little attention outside of Arizona, despite
the sensational details.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Travis Alexander was found dead in his shower. He was
shot in the face, stabbed twenty seven times, and his
throat was slit from ear to ear.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Friends of Travis Alexander found his mutilated body in his
apartment after he failed to show up to work. It
was a gruesome murder scene. Among the evidence police recovered
from the site was a digital camera with sexually explicit
photos of Arius and Alexander from the day he was murdered.
The final shot was of him bleeding profusely in the bathroom.
(17:37):
Investigators also found a bloody palm print and DNA belonging
to Jodiarius. Later in the summer, Arius was arrested in
charge with murder. The first interest in the case only
appeared when Jodyarius gave a few jailhouse interviews.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
No jury is going to convict me. Why not?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Because I'm innocent and you can mark my words on
that one.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
No Jerry will convict me.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But even the initial interest following Jodi Aarres's declaration of
innocence on TV was minor compared to the current fascination
with the University of Idaho murders.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
It's a little different than the Coburger situation, and it
wasn't quite in the headline the way Colberger was. I mean,
you think about Coburger the murder, so his name wasn't
associated with it yet, of course, but those murders in Moscow,
being in a college down when it was a who
done it certainly caught the attention of the nation before
any arrests were made. But Coolburgers was right from the
(18:32):
start when these bodies were found, the manhunt was underware.
The media got onto the man hunt and certainly was
there all throughout his apprehension his arrest. There's a huge
media presence in this case from the geta.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Because of this intense public interest. Every minor police announcement
or court appearance by Coburger is followed, reported on, and
heavily scrutinized. This interest, however, could potentially impact Cooberg to
a fair trial.
Speaker 6 (19:03):
If I were to file a pre trial motion in
the area's trial, I would walk into court and walk
out like it was John Smith. No one would care.
When Colberger files emotion and they have a court hearing,
everybody's going to care. And that's the distinctive, and.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
That makes it harder because no one likes to do
their job under a microscope.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
No one likes to do their job under a microscope
because it it just becomes more of a production. It
alters the court of public opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Right, this unique and intense interest by the media and
the public has the potential to alter the jury pool.
Speaker 6 (19:40):
Ultimately, all these things are going to be in the headlines,
and they are ultimately going to be things that will
be of consequence when vordaire happens, when the ultimately begin
to sit the jury. So, for example, this motion requesting DNA, right,
if I were to followed the similar motion during areas
a prospected jury would not have known about that. More
than likely in this case that might not be true.
(20:03):
And so it's not the microscope so much as is
the publicity and how that will infect a potential jury
because ultimately, you think about it, think about it, what
the rubber meets the road a trial, not in all
these different circumstances, right, the rubber meets the road at trial.
(20:24):
So when you have publicity engaging from the get go,
from before a suspect is identified, opinions for potential jurors
begin to form.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
It's impossible to fully circumvent those preconceived notions. Is that
what you're saying, right.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
It can be, And it also raises the prospect of
covert jurors. Let's say somebody decides they know Cobird's being
framed or they know he's guilty, they could get on
that panel and dodge their way into a trial, or
if they wanted to be on the panel in hopes
of stinking fame. And so that's why I think the
(21:01):
difference is so huge, Jeff. But if you think about
the dynamics of where the rubber meets the road, that jury,
that publicity and Coburger began from the discovery of the
murders makes things qualitatively different.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
How did you as a public defender and how do
you think Coburger's attorneys will combat that? I mean, certainly
the jury is not supposed to take that into account,
but how can they.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
Not, right, And there's no jury there, So there's this
massive public and the public to consume the information before
they ever become jurors or potential jurors. Right, So you know,
there's a lot of things I think that are going
on at this point in the case of his attorneys,
and because the death penalty is the specter that looms
(21:46):
over this case. Really, what his attorneys are doing now
are tasked with not only investigating the case and challenging
the evidence that the state is bringing forward in their
effort to convict mister Colberger of murder. They are looking
at investigating his life from conception to the day of
his rest so they can create a case for mitigation.
(22:09):
And while this is going on, of course, they have
to make this do all this, I guess, with the
specter of the presumption of guilt in the court of
public opinion and trying to fight against that, trying to
fight the evidence of the work.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Because Coburger's case, like Jodiarius Is, involves the potential for
the death penalty, Coburger's lawyers must work to both build
a defense and also an argument against the death penalty
if he is convicted. The intense public interest makes defending
Coburger challenging.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
Ultimately, they're going to be fighting this presumption of guilt,
of course, and they're going to want to do everything
they can to collect all the evidence. You know, we
see that they're going after the DNA. They believe the
DNA might be exploratory means favorable to their clients. So
they're going to go after those things, and they're going
to go after other things, like in terms of building
(23:06):
a case for life, They're going to go after school records,
They're going to go after everything in his past that
might be help shed some light on if in fact
he did commit this case, why a jury should grant
him wife. So there's really two prongs that are going
on here, and it certainly made much more difficult without
media spector because anybody that could maybe be helpful to
(23:29):
mister Colberger probably too excited about coming forward because of
that media spector being involved in the case. Because you know,
a death penalty case is something that automatically goes up
to the US Supreme Court if a sentence of death
is imposed, they are going to need to be very
vigilant in the defense they provide mister Colberger. And that
(23:51):
is on two fronts, both for life and for confronting
the evidence. Presenting a defense in a case like this,
in the death penalty case is not a job for
the timid. I mean, you have to go forward in
the face of all this vitriol against your client and
go forward and seek out that exculpatory information, So they're
(24:12):
going to do that. We've seen that they are, you know,
in terms of the preliminary hearing, they or seeking the
surviving roommates testimony.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
By the time Jody Arius went to trial, four years
after murdering Travis Alexander, interest in the case had grown,
but it exploded once the jerry was selected and the
trial began.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
When Jody Arius finally reached trial in twenty thirteen, it
was a case that had been going on for years
and the publicity was comparatively small before the trial. People
tend to think about her trial as being a huge sensation,
and it was, but it wasn't a huge sensation really
until it began. He had given those interviews with ABC,
(24:57):
Inside Editions, et cetera. The Oldburger case is a media
sensation from the start. So ultimately, when they get to
the point is that they are picking the jury, it's
not going to be whether or not they the jury
has heard anything about the case. Of the potential jury
numbers have hurt anything about the case. It's whether they
formed judgments about the case that cannot be altered. There
(25:19):
are people out there now who have heard the case,
have seen what they've seen and believe that he is guilty.
There might be people that believe that he is longly charged.
And what you need to do when you're searching out
a jury to find people that are not formally held
in the belief and is that are open to hearing
the evidence. Because right now, let's say that the evidence
(25:42):
of the public knows is you know, just a scant
portion of what is known to the police, the authilities,
and presumably the defense attorneys.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
That's an interesting point that we think we know everything
and we know just probably a fraction, is what you're saying.
Speaker 6 (25:59):
Yeah, I would say generally speaking, the public probably now
is about ten percent of the actual evidence it's really
going on in the case.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Let's stop here for another break. With so much of
the information and evidence still yet to be made public,
the Idaho judicial system is trying to combat what will
likely be a massive cultural event.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
When Colberger goes to trial. It is going to be
a lot like the Area's trial when it became more
popular in the public. Zite, guys, I mean, if cameras
are allowed in the courtroom, obviously we are going to
see every bit of movement in the courtroom. We're going
to see everything that surrounds the trial outside of the trial.
(26:52):
You know, we're going to see packed courtrooms, We're going
to see people standing outside. I think when you, mister
Kolberger did his case reach trial, you're going to see
that kind of mentality, that kind of It becomes a
trial in the courtroom as best as you can, but
it becomes a cultural event as well.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Jodiaris was ultimately convicted of murder and sentenced to life
in prison, but many legal analysts believe the circus surrounding
the trial impacted the prosecution's ability to secure the death penalty.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
As someone who's been in it and has now removed
from it, is that okay you think? Or is that
an unhealthy interest that we as a society have.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
It's hard to say, but I hate to see trials
become sporting events, right, and justice has to prevail more
than more than anything, right, And we just you know,
we see people that offer testimonies under scrutiny, judges under
scrutiny for having done nothing. It becomes closer to public stoning,
doesn't it. When we expose and attack people for their
(27:55):
involvement in these cases.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Here again, Jeff and.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Stephanie Jody Aaris's trial started on December tenth, twenty twelve,
and in the scheme of things, that was the infancy
stage of social media. Sure, read It and Twitter existed,
but people didn't use them like they do today.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Makes you wonder what the online community would have done
to that case if it happened today.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
And of course Jody Arius was found guilty for murder,
but there really was this pitchfork mentality back then, and
it probably would have been much more intense today. In
twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
With so much at stake, including Coburger's right to a
fair trial, the presiding judge during Coburger's hearings appeared unwilling
to remove the gag order. However, nearly seven months after
Coburger was arrested, and in response to the motion to
ease the gag order, Judge Joe Judge did agree to
loosen the non dissemination order.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Prosecution and defense attorneys can now speak on some matters
related to the case.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
The families of the four victims are still allowed to
speak publicly, but their lawyers remain barred from top Reddit,
along with several other social media websites, has tried to
clean up some of the most outrageous group chats. The
subreddit Brian Coberger's Girls, which was known for discussions about
Coburger's skincare routine and fawning posts about how hot the
(29:15):
twenty eight year old is, was banned for repeatedly violating
Reddit's code of conduct. Despite this small change, millions of
true grime enthusiasts and would be crime solvers continue to
dissect and debate every aspect of the murders on social
media and in public forums across the country. More on
(29:38):
that next time. For more information on the case and
relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios.
The Idaho Mascer is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane,
Connor Powell, Chris Bargo, Gabriel Castillo, and me Courtney Armstrong.
Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston.
(30:03):
The Idaho Massacre is a production of iHeart Radio and
Katie's Studios. For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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Speaker 7 (30:17):
I'm Diana. You may know as Body Moving, My Friend
and I John Green were featured in the Netflix documentary
Don't f with Cats. On our new podcast, True Crimes
of John and Deiana were turning our online investigative skills
to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and most ignored cases.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Please say.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Thirty three year old bride Again was shot dead, gunned
down in front of his two year old daughter.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
Detectives confirmed that it was a targeted attack.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
It appears to be an execution style of assassination.
Speaker 7 (30:46):
This is very active, so we have to be careful.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I've heard that there's a house and have some bodies
in the basement.
Speaker 6 (30:52):
I knew.
Speaker 7 (30:53):
I just knew something was wrong.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Maybe there's something more sinister at play than just one
young girl going missing.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
If you know something, heard something, Please it's never too
late to.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Do the right thing.
Speaker 7 (31:07):
This is True Crimes with John and Deianna, the production.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. Justice is something that takes
different shapes or formed.
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