January 25, 2023 • 34 mins
When it came to covering up their alleged involvement in the Rhoden murders, the Wagners seemingly had an answer for every question. However, as we come to find out, cell phone data may prove to be their undoing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
BCI's Julia Everslade says Angela Wagner's cell phone activity showed
several disturbing juries. He never called Chris senior like he
told BCI agents after Chris died. Digital data plays such
a huge role in all of these cases. You begin
to see this little electronic breadcrumbs as to their activity.
(00:28):
This is the Piked and massacre Returned to Pike County
Season four, episode thirteen, The Digital Trail. I'm Courtney Armstrong,
a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and
Jeff Sheen. It's important to note that Billy Wagner, George
Wagner's father, whose trial is upcoming, has pled not guilty
(00:51):
to all charges. We've so far heard reams of testimony
from different ballistics experts, from the coroner who did the
autopsies on the Rodent family, from the victims' family members.
Last episode we heard from Billy Wagner, and now we
hear more from the rest of the Wagners. But the
day begins with the hearing before Judge Daring regarding the
(01:11):
use of technology and media in the trial. Here's James Pilcher,
longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati now with Local twelve. This
is a big day for the media covering the trial
because the day before, the appeals Court ruled that whatever
shown in court, we can show either through still photographs,
(01:33):
streaming video, whatever, because the judge had previously said he
tried to put a ban on anything involving blood, involving miners,
or involving bodies, and that's against the rules of jurispudence
in Ohio. Anything that's shown in court can be shown publicly.
Now it's up to us to self censor. This morning's
hearing is over how the appellate Court's ruling will affect
(01:56):
the photos and videos that are presented in the trial
moving forward. It harkens back to the beginning of the trial,
when so much was about what would and would not
be allowed to be released by the media that publish.
(02:18):
Defense attorney John Parker argues that jurors could go online
and see images that were not previously introduced as evidence,
and that that could taint the view of the defendant,
George Wagner. The fourth and as much as is Judge
(02:45):
Daring asked the prosecution about the possibility of the jury
viewing sensitive material, in particular material that is not being
admitted into evidence. Assuming the jurors are following the cosorder,
there's absolutely no reason to they're not, and they're not
going to be looking at any type of media or
being anything out of the media anyway. That would be
(03:08):
our position, it's not. In the end, judge sharing sides
with the news media and the prosecution. That morning, the
judge has a hearing and says, hey, we've got to
abide by this and from now on you go ahead
and use the screens, but no that it's going to
be it can be shown, and that the prosecution at
(03:29):
that point had been going to the photographers and saying, hey,
this is going to have blood and it don't show it,
while it was allowing the prosecutors to self censor. Our
censor what was going to be shown and what wasn't,
and that's really not what the court is supposed to happen. So, yeah,
that was a big day with the media policy clarified.
The trial resumes. Special Prosecutor Angie Kinneppa and her team
(03:51):
call Ohio BCI intelligence supervisor Dana Forney to the stand.
Forney was a criminal intelligence analyst at the time of
the murders in twenty six team, as investigators were looking
into the Wagner's agent Forney analyzed their cell phone data.
Forni says she first looked at Billy Wager cell records
in the months and days leading up to the murders
on April twenty first and twenty second, twenty sixteen. Fornye
(04:14):
has been working in the criminal intelligence unit for ten years.
She wears a purple shirt with a black blazer and
is calm and confident. On the stand, Forny lays out
why she was looking into the phone records of Billy Wagner,
father of the defendant and also accused murderer. Once Billy
was interviewed by the investigative team, they requested the records
(04:36):
to either corroborate or refute any statements that he made
about his locations who he was calling. So the investigative
team had asked me to just take a look at
the records and create a map of where Billy was
on the day of the twenty first and the twenty second. Okay,
and so did you do that? Yes? Angie Kinneppa brings
(04:58):
the map on the screen for the courtroom to see.
It shows various cell towers and their relation to the
three crime scenes, as well as the Wagner residences. Agent
Forny also had access to the call log so she
could see who Billy Wagner was calling and who was
calling Billy. On April twenty first, the day of the murders,
there were several calls from Billy Wagner's son, George the Fourth.
(05:20):
Those stopped at around five forty four pm. It was
at five point fifty five pm when Billy made his
last phone call of the day. The last outgoing call
from this device that night of April twenty first was
to Christopher Roden Senior. Billy Wagner's last call of the
night was to Christopher Roden Senior. Chris Roden tried to
(05:42):
call Billy back five separate times up until ten fifteen pm.
Each time it went to voicemail. Previous testimony stated that
Chris Roden was likely murdered soon after eleven pm. Can
you tell us did that device of Billy Wagner's ever
make any attempt to contact Chris Senior's phone after receiving
(06:04):
those series of calls the night before that were routed
to voicemail? No? Okay? Even though he checked his voicemail
that following morning. Yes, did you see any evidence whatsoever
that he ever called or attempted to call Chris Roadin Sr.
After that last call to him shortly before six pm
on April twenty first of twenty sixteen. There were no
(06:27):
outcoing calls from Billy's phone to Chris Roady Sr. So
the other thing that they found in those records, of course,
was that he never called Chris Senior, like he told
BCI agents after Chris died. You know, he said he
destroyed his phones and he got a new number because
he kept getting upset at himself because he kept calling
(06:48):
Chris Senior's phone by accident, because he was his best friend. Well,
they proved that never happened. Using triangulation of the cell
towers and the geolocation of Billy's cell phone. Agent four
Ernie was also able to narrow down Wagner's location when
he used his phone. When I conducted the analysis first
of just his common towers. These were the most common
(07:12):
towers in Billy's records, the two that serviced the area
of the Flying W and the one that services the
area of Peterson Road. The Flying W was where Billy
Wagner's parents lived. Billy spent most nights there. The Peterson
Road address was where Angela, Jake and George Wagner lived.
Prosecutor Kunapa asked about the location of Billy's cell phone
(07:33):
the day of the murders and the day after. She
also asked if there was a change in Billy's habits
on those days. So significant to you would be if
the last outgoing or incoming contact or communication was adding
particular location at that night and then also in that
(07:54):
same location in the morning. Correct, would indicate to you
a habit of spending the night or whatever. Yeah, Kinnepa
pulls up on the big screen a calendar of Billy's
cell phone locations during the month of April. This is
April twenty sixteen's calendar of Billy's last serving cell site
and first serving cell site. Okay, And specifically, you have
(08:15):
the last cell site, which is the services the Peterson
Road address. Correct, Yes, at eleven oh four pm. And
then the first phone utilization the following morning also still
located at Peterson Road. Correct? And why was that significant?
I guess that on April twenty first the device was
at Peterson Road when typically it would be at the
(08:36):
Flying w. There were just comments made to the investigative
team about the family was all together that night and
we didn't know if that was common for them to
all be together at Peterson Road, and then again through
kind of the end at April. Do you see that
same pattern continuing as far as the Peterson Road address. Yes,
(09:00):
so then from that point forward you see a shift
in the device's behavior that now the typical last serving
cell site and first serving cell site the next morning
are in the Peterson Road area. And the other thing
they were able to show is that leading up to
the murders that Billy up until then, his phone at
(09:22):
night when he would go to bed was at the
Flying W. After the murders, for at least a month
and a half, except for the times they went to Alaska,
it was at Peterson Road. So that was a major
alteration in his behavior. On the day after the murders.
Here's Stephanie and Jeff And by the way, this is
(09:45):
the very very first time I've personally ever heard that
Billy Wagner accused father that he wasn't sleeping home. And
while this evidence doesn't necessarily tie George Wagner directly to
the murders. It does support prosecution's argument that the Wagoners
were in contact and were physically together the night of
the murders. It's fascinating now that we can better understand
(10:08):
the comings and goings of everyone based on their cell phones,
and it's always interesting to see behind the curtain a
little bit about an investigation, cell towers, information regarding where
their cell phones were. It kind of becomes this map,
and in many cases that's extremely meaningful. I will say
(10:29):
in this case, again, we're not seeing too too much
yet about George, but it is certainly interesting to see
where everybody else was and who they had been calling.
In those final days, people were frustrated with law enforcements,
timeline of how long it took to make arrests, or
how the public felt like they didn't know what was
going on. But I think this kind of police work
(10:50):
just proves that, like you said, behind the curtain, there
was a lot of investigative work happening that really helps
not just getting arrest, but hopefully commiction. What's your inclination?
Does that mean that Billy Wagner, Accu's father was calling
victim father Chris Rodin to see if he was home
(11:11):
at that hour, and doing sort of a scout to
just see if typically he's home between those certain hours.
I think it probably points to Billy Wagner knowing that
every cell phone call is tracked or could be tracked,
and he is planting some seed or trying to lay
some sort of what will eventually be his defense. Good point.
(11:34):
It should also be important to note Steph that while
the cell phone data helps give an idea of Billy
Wagner's location and habits before and after the murders, it
doesn't actually detail what was said during these phone calls.
More importantly, it doesn't specify how the Wagners allegedly coordinated
the killings. All of that is about to change with
the next witness called by the prosecution, Julia Evslidge, a
(11:58):
BCI agent who analyzed the search history, images and text
messages on Angela Wagner's phone. Bciyes, Julia Everslade says, Angela Wagner,
your cell phone activity showed several disturbing entries. Here's forensic
medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. Digital data plays such a
huge role in all of these cases. You begin to
(12:19):
see this little what I refer to as electrone breadcrumbs
as to their activity. Agent Eversledge wears a purple blazer
and white shirt. She has dirty blonde hair that falls
to her shoulders. On the stand she speaks in a
very matter of fact manner about the Google searches of
Angelo Wagner. So the bottom line here is a Google
search for Alaska houses for sale and what I believed
(12:41):
to be in Seward, which is a city or a
town in Alaska, a visit of a website Seward real Estate, Inc.
And a second visit of that. Just a minute later,
Prosecutor Kinnepa and Agent Everslidge walk through the various searches.
There are many about houses for sale in Alaska, living
in Alaska, jobs in Alaska, both before and after the murders.
(13:05):
Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, we all go
into a trial with a presumption of innocence in our system. However,
when the prosecution is presenting this case to the jury,
you have to draw upon the common sense of the
jury and say it, isn't it interesting you know that
this individual might be searching out things like you know,
(13:29):
the nature of what it's like to live in Alaska,
or you know, are their jobs available, for instance in Alaska.
But Angela Adne wasn't only googling about Alaska. The Google
search is symptoms of sexual Penetration in a Toddler and
that took place on January eighteenth, twenty sixteen. And then
(13:51):
the final line up at the top is Trauma Responses
in Children, a website that was visited here again, James Pilcher.
You know, the other thing that came up from Angela's
phone is that she had been searching for several months
previously on signs of sexual abuse and a toddler. We
know that they will later accuse the Rodents of or
(14:15):
somebody in the Rodent family of abusing Jick's daughter. But
one key thing that on Angela's phone which kind of
got me to thinking about this paranoia about sexual abuse
and rape. She looked up rape culture in Alaska. Now,
if you're moving to a place, is that one thing
you would look up? Is that something you would google?
Is there rape culture up there? So obviously it's front
(14:36):
of mind in this family for her. We're going to
take a break. We'll be back in a moment. The
prosecution and agent Epislidge turned to Angela Wagner's searches in March,
just one month before the murders. There are first searches
(14:58):
on Facebook for Hannah May Rodin photos, an attempt to
look at the friends of Hannah Rodin's on her Facebook,
and then another search on the same friends list of
Hannah Rodin. On March thirteenth, twenty sixteen, Agent Evsledge reads
Angela's search historyous days after the murders. These were searches
(15:19):
pertaining to the homicides themselves. On April twenty seventh, there
was a Facebook search Rodin Family massacre, the reading of
comments from the search as well as Rodin Family shootings,
and then reading of two articles pertaining to the homicides
from the Enquirer. When you've got a person that is
essentially the matriarch of the family and who many people
(15:41):
have pointed to is kind of the brains behind the operation.
And when you begin to see the searches that Angela
was engaged in, when you marry that up with the
physical evidence that you have and you see how of
that plays at out, then I think by extension, you
(16:04):
begin to compare these things. You know, look, you can
search anythink you want to on your phone. It doesn't
necessarily mean that you're guilty. The defense points out that
Angela's search history doesn't prove that she acted on the information. However,
the text between Angela and her husband, Billy Wagner do
shine a light in their dynamic. Evislitch begins to read
text messages aloud that were sent between Angela and Billy Wagner. Angela,
(16:28):
I still love you, but I would like to spend
some time with you, just you, not all of all
our problems. Billy. That's not going to happen, and it's
only going to get worse. Shit just starting, Angela, What
are you talking about. I'm trying to understand, Billy. I
am preparing my head for disaster. Angela, for what your
(16:48):
dad or Jake? Billy? Just everything has turned to shit
all Angela. Yes, I agree with you. Can I help
you in any way? Billy? Bullet to the head would
fix me right up. She reads a text exchange four
months before the murders, this one about Hannah Rodin Angela.
(17:11):
All hell is happening here with Hannah and Angela. She
is trying to keep Jake from getting her tomorrow Billy,
did you get her yet? Billy, you can run away
with me, Angela. I promise, if it weren't for I
would be gone. Billy. Anytime you want, Billy, you just
say the word and me, you and babies will be
(17:32):
off on the big adventure. Billy, just give me a
sign and I will come running. James Pilcher. There were
several between Billy and Angela that showed very, very tumultuous
nature of the relationship. You know. Billy even said, I
wish I could take you away. She said, yeah, if
it weren't for the kids and the grandkids, I would
(17:52):
go with you. But I'm with them. More messages about
Billy and Angela Wagner running away together sent three months
before or the murders. Billy, I am moving on. You
are more than welcome to come bring babies and come on. Angela. Well,
they are not our babies. And I would never do
that to George and Jake. I would have killed someone
(18:12):
if they would have even mentioned going away with my babies.
And if you really missed me, you would do anything
or go through anything for me. Here's Jeff and Joseph
Scott Morgan. Again, it's interesting because I don't think any
of her texts are Google searches totally point to George's guilt, certainly,
but they do paint a picture of maybe the dynamics
(18:34):
of the family. The way I've kind of come to
view this case in context to everything is that Angela
is essentially the hub of the wagon wheel. Okay, and
everybody else that is involved in this, whether it was
Jake or Billy or George who's currently on trial, their extensions,
(18:59):
they're like spoke and all of this. She's the hub
that everything else radiates out from. And when you begin
to take all of that into consideration, it does paint
this picture of the world that these people existed in.
They live in this world that's dominated by Angela. Prosecutor Knepa,
(19:23):
and Agent Everslidge walk through text messages set nearly two
months before the murders. Billy, it's a fine mess Angela. Well,
maybe it is worth you helping me work it out.
As the date of the massacre draws near, a particularly
disturbing message, Billy, I got a plan if you just
take one damn minute and listen, Angela. Okay, tell me,
(19:46):
Billy when I see you. This is the last time
I am going to try. If the three of you
don't take time to listen to me, then oh well, Angela, okay, Stephanie.
And at that time, remember Billy Wagner's father was dying.
There was a husty to dispute heating up between the
(20:07):
Wagners and the Rodents. So when he's talking about things being,
you know, really bad, perhaps that's what he was talking about,
not necessarily anything to do with murder. Knowing what we
know now, you can put a lens on anything the
Wagners did, whether it's something they googled, something they said
to each other, something they said, and writing where they went,
(20:28):
what they did, all of those things can be scrutinized
in a way that they couldn't before. Agent Evslich then
turns to text messages sent between Jake and Angela. These
were sent just one month before the murders. There was
a conversation of interest because it appeared to have been
discussing parts that were purchased. Jake okay, also at okay,
(20:53):
I'd done paid for it all, but I do not
need two three quarter ench stuff now. So see if
you can return, if you can reach it, Angela, I
will take care of it. Jake, Okay, it's a die
and two fittings that I do not need. Pick up
the other die and bit still need them? Angela, okay,
we'll do. Did you pay cash or put them on
(21:13):
your card? Jake cash? Angela okay. And when you say
that was of interest because it related to items that
have been purchased, what are you talking about, specifically items
that we believe we're used to build suppressors. There's information
openly available on the internet about parts required that can
(21:33):
be used to make suppressors tap and dies, for instance,
are parts that can be used, Drill bits that are
long can be used, and those are just components that
are used to build suppressors. When it comes to the
testimony of Julia Edislidge, she's kind of had access to
the beating heart of information. She has a unique insight
(21:54):
into this world that the Wagoners inhabited. Because you began
to think about, well, is it a matter of them
being able to talk about these things open and freely
or are they going to have to create coded language
in order to do this? In order to get messages
through to one another, Evslitch reads another text message with
(22:17):
what appears to be coded language. George Wagner continues to
stare at his feed. Jake ps, look in the cabinet
at the bottom of stairs, not finished yet and need
one more. Angela, are there pink bunnies there? Jake? One
is Angela? What about sprinkles? Jake ain't got them yet.
They are coming in mail and at Okay. Next Friday,
(22:40):
Prosecutor Kanepa asked the agents why she thought the words
quote sprinkles and quote pink bunnies were coded language. Well, first,
there was a mention of and okay, which in the
prior messages there were parts to be picked up or
exchanged at okay, which I interpreted to be okay. Auto
parts were known purchases that we identified later from various
(23:04):
autopart stores, and as well as the conversation the pink bunnies,
that was right on the heels of the discussion about
the various parts regarding what you testified too could be
used to make silencers correct, Yes, okay. If you have
(23:25):
an awareness where you feel as though you're going to
have to speak in coded language, why in the world
would you even offer up any conversation at all. As
it turned out, you know, they were able to pick
up a multiplicity of communications that were going on, and
you began to see this a little trail of electronic
breadcrumbs that have been created. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff,
(23:47):
there's a lot made of Billy and Angela Wagner using
code words when they're talking about sprinkles in pink bunnies.
And I don't know, that might be a little bit
of a leap if you know, we're all working on
the assumption that these are code words that could very
well be But those code words could be for anything,
(24:08):
you know, as mentioned, it could be for auto parts,
it could be for drugs. It could also be for
ingredients to make a cake. Yeah. Stuff. I mean, this
is very circumstantial evidence, if it's even considered evidence at all,
and it certainly doesn't point to George Wagner being guilty
of murder. Local news jumps on this finding of quoted
(24:31):
language text messages between Angela and Jake, which include pink
bunnies and sprinkles nothing to do with cartoons or ice cream.
The prosecution says they are code words for firearm accessories
that Jake ordered. Now, today's testimony also took jurors to
Montana's border with Canada. That's where agents intercepted the Wagners,
(24:52):
who were driving back to the US from Alaska more
than a year before they ended up being arrested. Next,
the prosecution calls up Agent Ryan. He wears a gray
suit with a purple shirt and tie and was the
lead investigator in the Rodent family murders. The prosecution begins
by laying out the evidence collected thus far in the investigation.
So at this point, now you have collected ballistic evidence
(25:16):
that we heard Matt White also talk about that matched
the shellcase scenes or cartridge casings that were fired at
both scenes two and three. And we have the shoeprint
evidence that has now been linked to the Wagner's via
the Walmart receipt and the image of Angela Wagner. We
had these forged custody documents, etc. So various pieces of
(25:37):
evidence that you have collected. Can you tell us then,
did this signify a change or a shift in the investigation? Yes,
it did. Scheider's calm demeanor reflects his years of experience
with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation. On the stand,
he has serious and matter of fact. So at this
point they're suspects. The Wagners now have become suspects and
(25:58):
these crimes. But at this point is when you first
had both ballistic and other physical evidence tying into the card. Correct.
Before it was suspicion and things weren't adding up. Now
we have evidence, We have physical evidence that says that
somebody at that residence at two sixty Peterson Road, which
the only people that lived there were George Wagner, Jake
(26:18):
Wagner and Angela Wagner, possessed the firearm but killed five
people on Union Hill Road. Here again, investigative reporter James Pilcher,
that flicked the switch from them being people of interest
to being suspected. That was a pretty key mom made.
But with the Wagners in their sites, investigators had a problem.
(26:39):
When you have an investigation with multiple suspects, one of
the things you want to do is get a statement
from each one of those Well, the best way to
do that is to how it was separated. You don't
want them together when you talk to them because they
feed off of each other. So one of the things
we wanted to do is figure out how can we
get a statement from all four Wagoners at the same
(26:59):
time where they're away from each other, and can you
tell us what plan did you come up with in
order to effectuate that. Our plan was to intercept them
at the border of Canada and the United States when
they returned back from Alaska. Scheider testified that they made
preparations with their sister agency in North Dakota to intercept
(27:20):
and interview the Wagners at that entry point. Agents also
wanted to listen to the conversations the Wagoners were having
on their phones and wanted to plant a listening device
in the Wagner's vehicle. But to do this, they needed
a special warrant, the intercept warrant, so that you can
receive the intercept warrant through Ohio. So the warrant is
good for the county in which the crimes are committed.
(27:44):
The investigators needed intercept warrants for both Ohio and North
Dakota since that is where they would be installing the
listening devices. Here again, Jeff and Joseph Scott Morgan, can
you explain what an intercept warrant is? First off, in
order at the warrant, you have to be able to
go to a judge and have them sign off on
(28:05):
this because you know, we have certain protections, constitutional protections
that extend out to warrants that involve listening devices. So
you have to state specifically what you're going to be
listening to, and just think of it very simply like this.
It's intercepted communications between parties of interests that are involved
(28:25):
in a case. It's say, for instance, your suspect and
they've gotten an intercept warrant for your phone. Well, if
you're talking to another individual, that might be a principle
in the case that gathering of information might be permissible.
You can't just collect everything randomly. There has to be
(28:45):
a reason why this data is collected and to make
it viable for court. We're going to take a break.
We'll be back in a moment. With the intercept warrants
for North Dakota and Ohio and place. Agents then traveled
(29:07):
to North Dakota a board an air Force plane their
plan to intercept the Wagners on May twentieth, twenty seventeen.
What happened when you arrived in North Dakota. We got
off the plane and then we were alerted by Customs
and Border Patrol HSI that we were in the wrong state.
(29:28):
What do you mean by that? As the Wagners had
exited Alaska to go into Canada, they had to declare
their bort of entry once they were trying to get
back into the United States, and at the point they
declared they were coming through sweet Grass, Montana. The agents
then boarded another plane and headed to Montana. So now
your timeline is shortened a little bit, and you are
(29:50):
now in a state that you did not make cooperations with. Correct. Correct,
and it's also on a weekend. Correct, Okay, So tell
me what you did. We scrambled, so kind of panicked
a little bit. Law enforcements scrambled to redo the applications
for the intercept warrants this time in Montana. We spent
most of the night obtaining those warrants because we had
(30:11):
to write them. They had not been written yet. So
sometime around five am Sunday morning, Montana time, we were
alerted that the Wagoners were making better time than expected
and that they would be arriving at sweet Grass sooner
than we thought. So we had to rush up to
the border early that morning and await their arrival. Here again,
James Pilcher, the Wagners went to Alaska one way, they
(30:35):
crossed in North Dakota, so the investigators assumed they would
come back the same way. Well they didn't. They indicated
they were going to come back through Montana. So here
they had flown on a National Air Guard cargo plane
with all of their stuff, had everything set up at
the North Dakota border to intercept them, and then they
(30:57):
found out, well, they're going to be crossing in Montana
in twenty four hours. That to top the plane, get
on the phone with the Montana Attorney General's office, make
sure they had the permission for the warrants that they needed.
So they worked around the clock, NonStop, when no sleep,
and then stopped them at the Montana border in this tiny,
little US Border Patrol facility that didn't have really the
(31:19):
capability to interview for people separately, but that's what they did.
At this point, I'm getting the impression that they're not
just putting George Wagner on trial, they are showing the
entire Pike County community, the entire state, the entire country,
what they went through to get here. They left no
stone unturned, even if they admit during some of this
(31:42):
they made mistakes. Stephanie and Jeff I thought it was
so interesting to hear the play by play of how
authorities had to switch things up from North Dakota to
the Montana border, and you know, you can kind of
picture this and see how this is unfolding and how
pectic it must have really been. And again, they've been
(32:04):
tracking them for a long time, So the idea that
they could have missed them and were able to adjust
and switch their plan up pretty quickly, I thought was powering.
I was frankly on the edge of my seat. And
it goes back to behind the scenes, law enforcement is
working in ways that the public is not aware of.
(32:25):
They were tracking this family and they were moving in
real time as the Wagners were moving to ultimately get
the goods. With the Montana intercept Warrens in hand, the
agents intercepted the Wagners at the border in Montana and
were they each placed in a separate room and interview
attempts made with each of us. Yes, the gig was help.
(32:45):
They knew we were looking at them. More on that
next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos,
follow us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Pikedon
Maskers produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnow,
Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
(33:09):
by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston. The Pike Damasacar
is a production of iHeart Radio and Kati Studios. For
more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Please welcome Markite County Domed Festival. Queen Lord, I just
(33:33):
thank you for bringing us all together as a community. Okay,
all sad? There's fly all over the house. You could
have killed eight family members in one life. I lost
my best friends and I will never be the same
because of that day. Four crime stanes, no DNA, no witnesses.
(33:57):
The killer left today's children laying in their mother's blood.
The word that comes to mind is overkilled. Who was
the master mind, I'm telling you is a framer. I'm
not sitting in prison. One thing I learned, the smaller
the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch
(34:21):
our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre,
premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on
Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November
twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts
are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.
BCI's Julia Everslade says Angela Wagner's cell phone activity showed
several disturbing juries. He never called Chris senior like he
told BCI agents after Chris died. Digital data plays such
a huge role in all of these cases. You begin
to see this little electronic breadcrumbs as to their activity.
(00:28):
This is the Piked and massacre Returned to Pike County
Season four, episode thirteen, The Digital Trail. I'm Courtney Armstrong,
a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and
Jeff Sheen. It's important to note that Billy Wagner, George
Wagner's father, whose trial is upcoming, has pled not guilty
(00:51):
to all charges. We've so far heard reams of testimony
from different ballistics experts, from the coroner who did the
autopsies on the Rodent family, from the victims' family members.
Last episode we heard from Billy Wagner, and now we
hear more from the rest of the Wagners. But the
day begins with the hearing before Judge Daring regarding the
(01:11):
use of technology and media in the trial. Here's James Pilcher,
longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati now with Local twelve. This
is a big day for the media covering the trial
because the day before, the appeals Court ruled that whatever
shown in court, we can show either through still photographs,
(01:33):
streaming video, whatever, because the judge had previously said he
tried to put a ban on anything involving blood, involving miners,
or involving bodies, and that's against the rules of jurispudence
in Ohio. Anything that's shown in court can be shown publicly.
Now it's up to us to self censor. This morning's
hearing is over how the appellate Court's ruling will affect
(01:56):
the photos and videos that are presented in the trial
moving forward. It harkens back to the beginning of the trial,
when so much was about what would and would not
be allowed to be released by the media that publish.
(02:18):
Defense attorney John Parker argues that jurors could go online
and see images that were not previously introduced as evidence,
and that that could taint the view of the defendant,
George Wagner. The fourth and as much as is Judge
(02:45):
Daring asked the prosecution about the possibility of the jury
viewing sensitive material, in particular material that is not being
admitted into evidence. Assuming the jurors are following the cosorder,
there's absolutely no reason to they're not, and they're not
going to be looking at any type of media or
being anything out of the media anyway. That would be
(03:08):
our position, it's not. In the end, judge sharing sides
with the news media and the prosecution. That morning, the
judge has a hearing and says, hey, we've got to
abide by this and from now on you go ahead
and use the screens, but no that it's going to
be it can be shown, and that the prosecution at
(03:29):
that point had been going to the photographers and saying, hey,
this is going to have blood and it don't show it,
while it was allowing the prosecutors to self censor. Our
censor what was going to be shown and what wasn't,
and that's really not what the court is supposed to happen. So, yeah,
that was a big day with the media policy clarified.
The trial resumes. Special Prosecutor Angie Kinneppa and her team
(03:51):
call Ohio BCI intelligence supervisor Dana Forney to the stand.
Forney was a criminal intelligence analyst at the time of
the murders in twenty six team, as investigators were looking
into the Wagner's agent Forney analyzed their cell phone data.
Forni says she first looked at Billy Wager cell records
in the months and days leading up to the murders
on April twenty first and twenty second, twenty sixteen. Fornye
(04:14):
has been working in the criminal intelligence unit for ten years.
She wears a purple shirt with a black blazer and
is calm and confident. On the stand, Forny lays out
why she was looking into the phone records of Billy Wagner,
father of the defendant and also accused murderer. Once Billy
was interviewed by the investigative team, they requested the records
(04:36):
to either corroborate or refute any statements that he made
about his locations who he was calling. So the investigative
team had asked me to just take a look at
the records and create a map of where Billy was
on the day of the twenty first and the twenty second. Okay,
and so did you do that? Yes? Angie Kinneppa brings
(04:58):
the map on the screen for the courtroom to see.
It shows various cell towers and their relation to the
three crime scenes, as well as the Wagner residences. Agent
Forny also had access to the call log so she
could see who Billy Wagner was calling and who was
calling Billy. On April twenty first, the day of the murders,
there were several calls from Billy Wagner's son, George the Fourth.
(05:20):
Those stopped at around five forty four pm. It was
at five point fifty five pm when Billy made his
last phone call of the day. The last outgoing call
from this device that night of April twenty first was
to Christopher Roden Senior. Billy Wagner's last call of the
night was to Christopher Roden Senior. Chris Roden tried to
(05:42):
call Billy back five separate times up until ten fifteen pm.
Each time it went to voicemail. Previous testimony stated that
Chris Roden was likely murdered soon after eleven pm. Can
you tell us did that device of Billy Wagner's ever
make any attempt to contact Chris Senior's phone after receiving
(06:04):
those series of calls the night before that were routed
to voicemail? No? Okay? Even though he checked his voicemail
that following morning. Yes, did you see any evidence whatsoever
that he ever called or attempted to call Chris Roadin Sr.
After that last call to him shortly before six pm
on April twenty first of twenty sixteen. There were no
(06:27):
outcoing calls from Billy's phone to Chris Roady Sr. So
the other thing that they found in those records, of course,
was that he never called Chris Senior, like he told
BCI agents after Chris died. You know, he said he
destroyed his phones and he got a new number because
he kept getting upset at himself because he kept calling
(06:48):
Chris Senior's phone by accident, because he was his best friend. Well,
they proved that never happened. Using triangulation of the cell
towers and the geolocation of Billy's cell phone. Agent four
Ernie was also able to narrow down Wagner's location when
he used his phone. When I conducted the analysis first
of just his common towers. These were the most common
(07:12):
towers in Billy's records, the two that serviced the area
of the Flying W and the one that services the
area of Peterson Road. The Flying W was where Billy
Wagner's parents lived. Billy spent most nights there. The Peterson
Road address was where Angela, Jake and George Wagner lived.
Prosecutor Kunapa asked about the location of Billy's cell phone
(07:33):
the day of the murders and the day after. She
also asked if there was a change in Billy's habits
on those days. So significant to you would be if
the last outgoing or incoming contact or communication was adding
particular location at that night and then also in that
(07:54):
same location in the morning. Correct, would indicate to you
a habit of spending the night or whatever. Yeah, Kinnepa
pulls up on the big screen a calendar of Billy's
cell phone locations during the month of April. This is
April twenty sixteen's calendar of Billy's last serving cell site
and first serving cell site. Okay, And specifically, you have
(08:15):
the last cell site, which is the services the Peterson
Road address. Correct, Yes, at eleven oh four pm. And
then the first phone utilization the following morning also still
located at Peterson Road. Correct? And why was that significant?
I guess that on April twenty first the device was
at Peterson Road when typically it would be at the
(08:36):
Flying w. There were just comments made to the investigative
team about the family was all together that night and
we didn't know if that was common for them to
all be together at Peterson Road, and then again through
kind of the end at April. Do you see that
same pattern continuing as far as the Peterson Road address. Yes,
(09:00):
so then from that point forward you see a shift
in the device's behavior that now the typical last serving
cell site and first serving cell site the next morning
are in the Peterson Road area. And the other thing
they were able to show is that leading up to
the murders that Billy up until then, his phone at
(09:22):
night when he would go to bed was at the
Flying W. After the murders, for at least a month
and a half, except for the times they went to Alaska,
it was at Peterson Road. So that was a major
alteration in his behavior. On the day after the murders.
Here's Stephanie and Jeff And by the way, this is
(09:45):
the very very first time I've personally ever heard that
Billy Wagner accused father that he wasn't sleeping home. And
while this evidence doesn't necessarily tie George Wagner directly to
the murders. It does support prosecution's argument that the Wagoners
were in contact and were physically together the night of
the murders. It's fascinating now that we can better understand
(10:08):
the comings and goings of everyone based on their cell phones,
and it's always interesting to see behind the curtain a
little bit about an investigation, cell towers, information regarding where
their cell phones were. It kind of becomes this map,
and in many cases that's extremely meaningful. I will say
(10:29):
in this case, again, we're not seeing too too much
yet about George, but it is certainly interesting to see
where everybody else was and who they had been calling.
In those final days, people were frustrated with law enforcements,
timeline of how long it took to make arrests, or
how the public felt like they didn't know what was
going on. But I think this kind of police work
(10:50):
just proves that, like you said, behind the curtain, there
was a lot of investigative work happening that really helps
not just getting arrest, but hopefully commiction. What's your inclination?
Does that mean that Billy Wagner, Accu's father was calling
victim father Chris Rodin to see if he was home
(11:11):
at that hour, and doing sort of a scout to
just see if typically he's home between those certain hours.
I think it probably points to Billy Wagner knowing that
every cell phone call is tracked or could be tracked,
and he is planting some seed or trying to lay
some sort of what will eventually be his defense. Good point.
(11:34):
It should also be important to note Steph that while
the cell phone data helps give an idea of Billy
Wagner's location and habits before and after the murders, it
doesn't actually detail what was said during these phone calls.
More importantly, it doesn't specify how the Wagners allegedly coordinated
the killings. All of that is about to change with
the next witness called by the prosecution, Julia Evslidge, a
(11:58):
BCI agent who analyzed the search history, images and text
messages on Angela Wagner's phone. Bciyes, Julia Everslade says, Angela Wagner,
your cell phone activity showed several disturbing entries. Here's forensic
medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. Digital data plays such a
huge role in all of these cases. You begin to
(12:19):
see this little what I refer to as electrone breadcrumbs
as to their activity. Agent Eversledge wears a purple blazer
and white shirt. She has dirty blonde hair that falls
to her shoulders. On the stand she speaks in a
very matter of fact manner about the Google searches of
Angelo Wagner. So the bottom line here is a Google
search for Alaska houses for sale and what I believed
(12:41):
to be in Seward, which is a city or a
town in Alaska, a visit of a website Seward real Estate, Inc.
And a second visit of that. Just a minute later,
Prosecutor Kinnepa and Agent Everslidge walk through the various searches.
There are many about houses for sale in Alaska, living
in Alaska, jobs in Alaska, both before and after the murders.
(13:05):
Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, we all go
into a trial with a presumption of innocence in our system. However,
when the prosecution is presenting this case to the jury,
you have to draw upon the common sense of the
jury and say it, isn't it interesting you know that
this individual might be searching out things like you know,
(13:29):
the nature of what it's like to live in Alaska,
or you know, are their jobs available, for instance in Alaska.
But Angela Adne wasn't only googling about Alaska. The Google
search is symptoms of sexual Penetration in a Toddler and
that took place on January eighteenth, twenty sixteen. And then
(13:51):
the final line up at the top is Trauma Responses
in Children, a website that was visited here again, James Pilcher.
You know, the other thing that came up from Angela's
phone is that she had been searching for several months
previously on signs of sexual abuse and a toddler. We
know that they will later accuse the Rodents of or
(14:15):
somebody in the Rodent family of abusing Jick's daughter. But
one key thing that on Angela's phone which kind of
got me to thinking about this paranoia about sexual abuse
and rape. She looked up rape culture in Alaska. Now,
if you're moving to a place, is that one thing
you would look up? Is that something you would google?
Is there rape culture up there? So obviously it's front
(14:36):
of mind in this family for her. We're going to
take a break. We'll be back in a moment. The
prosecution and agent Epislidge turned to Angela Wagner's searches in March,
just one month before the murders. There are first searches
(14:58):
on Facebook for Hannah May Rodin photos, an attempt to
look at the friends of Hannah Rodin's on her Facebook,
and then another search on the same friends list of
Hannah Rodin. On March thirteenth, twenty sixteen, Agent Evsledge reads
Angela's search historyous days after the murders. These were searches
(15:19):
pertaining to the homicides themselves. On April twenty seventh, there
was a Facebook search Rodin Family massacre, the reading of
comments from the search as well as Rodin Family shootings,
and then reading of two articles pertaining to the homicides
from the Enquirer. When you've got a person that is
essentially the matriarch of the family and who many people
(15:41):
have pointed to is kind of the brains behind the operation.
And when you begin to see the searches that Angela
was engaged in, when you marry that up with the
physical evidence that you have and you see how of
that plays at out, then I think by extension, you
(16:04):
begin to compare these things. You know, look, you can
search anythink you want to on your phone. It doesn't
necessarily mean that you're guilty. The defense points out that
Angela's search history doesn't prove that she acted on the information. However,
the text between Angela and her husband, Billy Wagner do
shine a light in their dynamic. Evislitch begins to read
text messages aloud that were sent between Angela and Billy Wagner. Angela,
(16:28):
I still love you, but I would like to spend
some time with you, just you, not all of all
our problems. Billy. That's not going to happen, and it's
only going to get worse. Shit just starting, Angela, What
are you talking about. I'm trying to understand, Billy. I
am preparing my head for disaster. Angela, for what your
(16:48):
dad or Jake? Billy? Just everything has turned to shit
all Angela. Yes, I agree with you. Can I help
you in any way? Billy? Bullet to the head would
fix me right up. She reads a text exchange four
months before the murders, this one about Hannah Rodin Angela.
(17:11):
All hell is happening here with Hannah and Angela. She
is trying to keep Jake from getting her tomorrow Billy,
did you get her yet? Billy, you can run away
with me, Angela. I promise, if it weren't for I
would be gone. Billy. Anytime you want, Billy, you just
say the word and me, you and babies will be
(17:32):
off on the big adventure. Billy, just give me a
sign and I will come running. James Pilcher. There were
several between Billy and Angela that showed very, very tumultuous
nature of the relationship. You know. Billy even said, I
wish I could take you away. She said, yeah, if
it weren't for the kids and the grandkids, I would
(17:52):
go with you. But I'm with them. More messages about
Billy and Angela Wagner running away together sent three months
before or the murders. Billy, I am moving on. You
are more than welcome to come bring babies and come on. Angela. Well,
they are not our babies. And I would never do
that to George and Jake. I would have killed someone
(18:12):
if they would have even mentioned going away with my babies.
And if you really missed me, you would do anything
or go through anything for me. Here's Jeff and Joseph
Scott Morgan. Again, it's interesting because I don't think any
of her texts are Google searches totally point to George's guilt, certainly,
but they do paint a picture of maybe the dynamics
(18:34):
of the family. The way I've kind of come to
view this case in context to everything is that Angela
is essentially the hub of the wagon wheel. Okay, and
everybody else that is involved in this, whether it was
Jake or Billy or George who's currently on trial, their extensions,
(18:59):
they're like spoke and all of this. She's the hub
that everything else radiates out from. And when you begin
to take all of that into consideration, it does paint
this picture of the world that these people existed in.
They live in this world that's dominated by Angela. Prosecutor Knepa,
(19:23):
and Agent Everslidge walk through text messages set nearly two
months before the murders. Billy, it's a fine mess Angela. Well,
maybe it is worth you helping me work it out.
As the date of the massacre draws near, a particularly
disturbing message, Billy, I got a plan if you just
take one damn minute and listen, Angela. Okay, tell me,
(19:46):
Billy when I see you. This is the last time
I am going to try. If the three of you
don't take time to listen to me, then oh well, Angela, okay, Stephanie.
And at that time, remember Billy Wagner's father was dying.
There was a husty to dispute heating up between the
(20:07):
Wagners and the Rodents. So when he's talking about things being,
you know, really bad, perhaps that's what he was talking about,
not necessarily anything to do with murder. Knowing what we
know now, you can put a lens on anything the
Wagners did, whether it's something they googled, something they said
to each other, something they said, and writing where they went,
(20:28):
what they did, all of those things can be scrutinized
in a way that they couldn't before. Agent Evslich then
turns to text messages sent between Jake and Angela. These
were sent just one month before the murders. There was
a conversation of interest because it appeared to have been
discussing parts that were purchased. Jake okay, also at okay,
(20:53):
I'd done paid for it all, but I do not
need two three quarter ench stuff now. So see if
you can return, if you can reach it, Angela, I
will take care of it. Jake, Okay, it's a die
and two fittings that I do not need. Pick up
the other die and bit still need them? Angela, okay,
we'll do. Did you pay cash or put them on
(21:13):
your card? Jake cash? Angela okay. And when you say
that was of interest because it related to items that
have been purchased, what are you talking about, specifically items
that we believe we're used to build suppressors. There's information
openly available on the internet about parts required that can
(21:33):
be used to make suppressors tap and dies, for instance,
are parts that can be used, Drill bits that are
long can be used, and those are just components that
are used to build suppressors. When it comes to the
testimony of Julia Edislidge, she's kind of had access to
the beating heart of information. She has a unique insight
(21:54):
into this world that the Wagoners inhabited. Because you began
to think about, well, is it a matter of them
being able to talk about these things open and freely
or are they going to have to create coded language
in order to do this? In order to get messages
through to one another, Evslitch reads another text message with
(22:17):
what appears to be coded language. George Wagner continues to
stare at his feed. Jake ps, look in the cabinet
at the bottom of stairs, not finished yet and need
one more. Angela, are there pink bunnies there? Jake? One
is Angela? What about sprinkles? Jake ain't got them yet.
They are coming in mail and at Okay. Next Friday,
(22:40):
Prosecutor Kanepa asked the agents why she thought the words
quote sprinkles and quote pink bunnies were coded language. Well, first,
there was a mention of and okay, which in the
prior messages there were parts to be picked up or
exchanged at okay, which I interpreted to be okay. Auto
parts were known purchases that we identified later from various
(23:04):
autopart stores, and as well as the conversation the pink bunnies,
that was right on the heels of the discussion about
the various parts regarding what you testified too could be
used to make silencers correct, Yes, okay. If you have
(23:25):
an awareness where you feel as though you're going to
have to speak in coded language, why in the world
would you even offer up any conversation at all. As
it turned out, you know, they were able to pick
up a multiplicity of communications that were going on, and
you began to see this a little trail of electronic
breadcrumbs that have been created. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff,
(23:47):
there's a lot made of Billy and Angela Wagner using
code words when they're talking about sprinkles in pink bunnies.
And I don't know, that might be a little bit
of a leap if you know, we're all working on
the assumption that these are code words that could very
well be But those code words could be for anything,
(24:08):
you know, as mentioned, it could be for auto parts,
it could be for drugs. It could also be for
ingredients to make a cake. Yeah. Stuff. I mean, this
is very circumstantial evidence, if it's even considered evidence at all,
and it certainly doesn't point to George Wagner being guilty
of murder. Local news jumps on this finding of quoted
(24:31):
language text messages between Angela and Jake, which include pink
bunnies and sprinkles nothing to do with cartoons or ice cream.
The prosecution says they are code words for firearm accessories
that Jake ordered. Now, today's testimony also took jurors to
Montana's border with Canada. That's where agents intercepted the Wagners,
(24:52):
who were driving back to the US from Alaska more
than a year before they ended up being arrested. Next,
the prosecution calls up Agent Ryan. He wears a gray
suit with a purple shirt and tie and was the
lead investigator in the Rodent family murders. The prosecution begins
by laying out the evidence collected thus far in the investigation.
So at this point, now you have collected ballistic evidence
(25:16):
that we heard Matt White also talk about that matched
the shellcase scenes or cartridge casings that were fired at
both scenes two and three. And we have the shoeprint
evidence that has now been linked to the Wagner's via
the Walmart receipt and the image of Angela Wagner. We
had these forged custody documents, etc. So various pieces of
(25:37):
evidence that you have collected. Can you tell us then,
did this signify a change or a shift in the investigation? Yes,
it did. Scheider's calm demeanor reflects his years of experience
with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation. On the stand,
he has serious and matter of fact. So at this
point they're suspects. The Wagners now have become suspects and
(25:58):
these crimes. But at this point is when you first
had both ballistic and other physical evidence tying into the card. Correct.
Before it was suspicion and things weren't adding up. Now
we have evidence, We have physical evidence that says that
somebody at that residence at two sixty Peterson Road, which
the only people that lived there were George Wagner, Jake
(26:18):
Wagner and Angela Wagner, possessed the firearm but killed five
people on Union Hill Road. Here again, investigative reporter James Pilcher,
that flicked the switch from them being people of interest
to being suspected. That was a pretty key mom made.
But with the Wagners in their sites, investigators had a problem.
(26:39):
When you have an investigation with multiple suspects, one of
the things you want to do is get a statement
from each one of those Well, the best way to
do that is to how it was separated. You don't
want them together when you talk to them because they
feed off of each other. So one of the things
we wanted to do is figure out how can we
get a statement from all four Wagoners at the same
(26:59):
time where they're away from each other, and can you
tell us what plan did you come up with in
order to effectuate that. Our plan was to intercept them
at the border of Canada and the United States when
they returned back from Alaska. Scheider testified that they made
preparations with their sister agency in North Dakota to intercept
(27:20):
and interview the Wagners at that entry point. Agents also
wanted to listen to the conversations the Wagoners were having
on their phones and wanted to plant a listening device
in the Wagner's vehicle. But to do this, they needed
a special warrant, the intercept warrant, so that you can
receive the intercept warrant through Ohio. So the warrant is
good for the county in which the crimes are committed.
(27:44):
The investigators needed intercept warrants for both Ohio and North
Dakota since that is where they would be installing the
listening devices. Here again, Jeff and Joseph Scott Morgan, can
you explain what an intercept warrant is? First off, in
order at the warrant, you have to be able to
go to a judge and have them sign off on
(28:05):
this because you know, we have certain protections, constitutional protections
that extend out to warrants that involve listening devices. So
you have to state specifically what you're going to be
listening to, and just think of it very simply like this.
It's intercepted communications between parties of interests that are involved
(28:25):
in a case. It's say, for instance, your suspect and
they've gotten an intercept warrant for your phone. Well, if
you're talking to another individual, that might be a principle
in the case that gathering of information might be permissible.
You can't just collect everything randomly. There has to be
(28:45):
a reason why this data is collected and to make
it viable for court. We're going to take a break.
We'll be back in a moment. With the intercept warrants
for North Dakota and Ohio and place. Agents then traveled
(29:07):
to North Dakota a board an air Force plane their
plan to intercept the Wagners on May twentieth, twenty seventeen.
What happened when you arrived in North Dakota. We got
off the plane and then we were alerted by Customs
and Border Patrol HSI that we were in the wrong state.
(29:28):
What do you mean by that? As the Wagners had
exited Alaska to go into Canada, they had to declare
their bort of entry once they were trying to get
back into the United States, and at the point they
declared they were coming through sweet Grass, Montana. The agents
then boarded another plane and headed to Montana. So now
your timeline is shortened a little bit, and you are
(29:50):
now in a state that you did not make cooperations with. Correct. Correct,
and it's also on a weekend. Correct, Okay, So tell
me what you did. We scrambled, so kind of panicked
a little bit. Law enforcements scrambled to redo the applications
for the intercept warrants this time in Montana. We spent
most of the night obtaining those warrants because we had
(30:11):
to write them. They had not been written yet. So
sometime around five am Sunday morning, Montana time, we were
alerted that the Wagoners were making better time than expected
and that they would be arriving at sweet Grass sooner
than we thought. So we had to rush up to
the border early that morning and await their arrival. Here again,
James Pilcher, the Wagners went to Alaska one way, they
(30:35):
crossed in North Dakota, so the investigators assumed they would
come back the same way. Well they didn't. They indicated
they were going to come back through Montana. So here
they had flown on a National Air Guard cargo plane
with all of their stuff, had everything set up at
the North Dakota border to intercept them, and then they
(30:57):
found out, well, they're going to be crossing in Montana
in twenty four hours. That to top the plane, get
on the phone with the Montana Attorney General's office, make
sure they had the permission for the warrants that they needed.
So they worked around the clock, NonStop, when no sleep,
and then stopped them at the Montana border in this tiny,
little US Border Patrol facility that didn't have really the
(31:19):
capability to interview for people separately, but that's what they did.
At this point, I'm getting the impression that they're not
just putting George Wagner on trial, they are showing the
entire Pike County community, the entire state, the entire country,
what they went through to get here. They left no
stone unturned, even if they admit during some of this
(31:42):
they made mistakes. Stephanie and Jeff I thought it was
so interesting to hear the play by play of how
authorities had to switch things up from North Dakota to
the Montana border, and you know, you can kind of
picture this and see how this is unfolding and how
pectic it must have really been. And again, they've been
(32:04):
tracking them for a long time, So the idea that
they could have missed them and were able to adjust
and switch their plan up pretty quickly, I thought was powering.
I was frankly on the edge of my seat. And
it goes back to behind the scenes, law enforcement is
working in ways that the public is not aware of.
(32:25):
They were tracking this family and they were moving in
real time as the Wagners were moving to ultimately get
the goods. With the Montana intercept Warrens in hand, the
agents intercepted the Wagners at the border in Montana and
were they each placed in a separate room and interview
attempts made with each of us. Yes, the gig was help.
(32:45):
They knew we were looking at them. More on that
next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos,
follow us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Pikedon
Maskers produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnow,
Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
(33:09):
by Jeff Toi. Music by Jared Aston. The Pike Damasacar
is a production of iHeart Radio and Kati Studios. For
more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Please welcome Markite County Domed Festival. Queen Lord, I just
(33:33):
thank you for bringing us all together as a community. Okay,
all sad? There's fly all over the house. You could
have killed eight family members in one life. I lost
my best friends and I will never be the same
because of that day. Four crime stanes, no DNA, no witnesses.
(33:57):
The killer left today's children laying in their mother's blood.
The word that comes to mind is overkilled. Who was
the master mind, I'm telling you is a framer. I'm
not sitting in prison. One thing I learned, the smaller
the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch
(34:21):
our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre,
premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on
Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November
twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts
are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Lydecker
Courtney Armstrong
Jeff Shane
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