February 1, 2023 • 34 mins
The now-admitted murderer, Angela Wagner spent years denying her involvement in the massacre with a carefully crafted cover story. As the trial against George Wagner IV continues, the prosecution brings in taped interviews with the defendant’s mother. What exactly did Mrs. Wagner tell detectives and how will those statements affect her son now?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
It was perhaps the first time George Wagger the fourth
heard his mother's voice in the four years since the
family was arrested. Made you think that my son needed
or money in your veil? And I'm asking you, yes,
how you defenditively? Know? I want the truth from you? Okay?
(00:22):
Did something happen? You can see her attempting to fool
you know, everyone involved in this. Let's face it, We've
got eight dead bodies, four separate locations. How in the
world do you think that you can escape that this
(00:44):
is the Pipon massacre. Returned to Pike County season four,
episode fourteen, the matriarch speaks. It's important to note that
George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not guilty and has
maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner,
whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to
(01:05):
all charges. In the previous episode, we heard about how
law enforcement came to view the Wagners as suspects and
the murders of the Rodin, Manly and Gilly families. Before
it was suspicion and things weren't adding up. Yes, Lead
investigator Ryan Scheiderer says that changed about a year after
the homicides, when BCI agents matched spent shell casings at
(01:28):
the Wagner's home in Peebles. Based on that ballistics evidence,
agents used sirche horns to take deep dives into mobile
devices used by George Wagner, who's on trial for murder,
his brother Jake, and their parents, Billy and Angela Wagner.
After originally preparing to intercept the Wagners in North Dakota,
investigators had to scramble to intercept the family at another
(01:48):
Canadian border entry point. The Wagners were house hunting in Alaska.
As they returned, agents intercepted them at the Canadian border
a year after the murders. Now Wagner is a cues
of helping kill eight members of the Rodent and Gilly families.
Investigators detained the Wagners and placed each member of the
family in a separate room. At this time, I believe
(02:10):
you indicated that you were going to interview them as
suspects instead of your prior contacts with them. Correct. The
gig was up. They knew we were looking at them well.
The Wagners were in custody. Agencies a laptop and an
iPad from their vehicle. Law enforcement also placed listening devices
in the Wagner's SUV and bugged their phones. Upon cross examination,
(02:32):
John Parker from the defense brings up the quality of
the audio obtained from the bug the agent's placed in
the Wagner's vehicle. There's really nothing useful that came from
those listening devices on the vehicles. At first. I did
not work as well as we hoped. Correct, right, there
was nothing useful gait out of that. Correct, The quality
of the audio was less than desirable. There was nothing useful,
(02:55):
gait Correct. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati,
now with Local twelve. And as it turns out, that
was kind of a snapoo too, because the road noise
drowned out anything they could hear. They really didn't get
really much of anything out of that, except, you know,
when everybody came out, They came out one at a time,
(03:18):
and they sat there and they didn't talk about anything. Normally,
if you're innocent and you're pulled over, and all of
a sudden you get out of a four hour interview,
you're going to be asking your family members what the
heck is going on. None of that nothing was hurt
like that on those recordings. Because of the rush to
set up in Montana as opposed to North Dakota, agents
were unable to videotape the interviews since the bug in
(03:41):
the vehicle did not pick up usable audio. The audio
recordings of the interviews at the Canadian border where all
the investigators had you interviewed, Jay, Is that correct? Yes?
Myself and special Agent Moulthard okay. And do you recall
how long that interview goes across four to six hours?
Maybe yes? And Judge we would ask that we'd be
(04:04):
allowed to play Jake Zama. At this point, the prosecution
of Jacks and Judge Steering instructs the jury to leave
the room for a fifteen minute recess. Judge Jeering asks
for the prosecution and defense to present their arguments on
whether Jake's taped interviews should be played for the court.
Just the plain reading of evidence, Rule eight oh one
says that the co conspirac statement is attributed to the defendant.
(04:27):
There's a lot of talk of rule eight oh one,
but the gist of it is that the defense cannot
introduce his evidence. Another co conspirator's testimony during cross only
the state is allowed to do that. That's the whole
nature of the co conspiracy. So they all denied it, right,
that was part of the conspiracy. So he does not
get to put it it now. Even when Jane testifies,
(04:49):
he certainly can use this to cross examine him as
a prior inconsistent statement. At that point, John Parker argues
that Jake's testimony is part of the defense's constitutional right
to a complete defense being a truth. The co conspirator
shading is covered up his ass. We shouldn't have to
(05:13):
wait sign if they call GA he comes out of this.
Officer articipated, he's probably bring when it's time to make
a ruling. Judge Steering decides he needs to hear more argument.
I'm not going to decide ultimately today whether we're going
(05:33):
to be able to play that tape in the defense
side of the case. I've sided that tomorrow morning, after
I've heard arguments here, you should be ready about eight
forty five to go on the record and argue that issue,
and then I'll make that decision. They let the jury
back into the courtroom and Judge Steering addresses the court. Thanks, gentlemen,
the court. We're going to have an early day close today.
(05:56):
The court has some things to do that do not
involve the jury, deering, closes the day early to give
the defense and prosecution time to prepare for tomorrow's hearing.
Here again, James Pilcher. So I pretty much shut down
the trial for the afternoon, and actually the judge held
it under advisement and said I'll roul on it tomorrow.
So we're all on pins and needles the next day
(06:18):
as to whether or not we're gonna have to sit
through six hours of listening to Ryan and Jake talk
to each other. News media reports The latest development in
the trial the defense trying to play Jake Wagner's first
interrogation tape today, but the prosecution said, wait, you can't
do that. We have to enter that as evidence first,
And the judge said, show up here tomorrow morning and
(06:41):
prepare to argue about it and he'll make a decision then.
So that brings us to tomorrow. Will jurors hear Jake
Wagner's five hour interrogation tape, Will they hear Angela Wagner's
two hour interrogation tape? And how will George the man
on trial come up in those tapes. But the next morning,
it's not Jake's interview that makes news, George Wagner the
(07:02):
fourth providing an explosive audio recording of his mom, Angela's
interrogation by BCI agents. It was perhaps the first time
George Wager the fourth heard his mother's voice in the
four years since the family was arrested. Before the jury
is brought in, Judge Deering Hear's arguments about whether to
(07:23):
allow in the audio recording of Jake's interview from when
the Wagners were intercepted at the Canadian border. Prosecutor Angie
Caneppa lays out her reasons for the objection. Jake made
a complete denial. There was nothing that was taken from
that interview by a special adaier that informed next investigative steps.
(07:44):
So I guess really one question would be, for what
purpose is this being requested to be played. Here's John
Parker with the defense, because Ja has flilitated, Angela has
experience experiency, they are all right, and this recording jas
(08:15):
efforts to cover up his involve Finally, Judge Jerry makes
a ruling, Well, I think I understand the arguments of all,
but I'm going to deny the request of defense to
play the tape at this time. Here again, James Pilcher.
One of the interesting things about this day was the
prosecution specifically chooses not to play the tape of the
(08:36):
recording they made with George, and there were some questions, Okay,
why aren't they playing this to show what he was
saying at the time. As for the strategy of this,
we think possibly they're not playing it. So if and
when George decides to take the stand, he can't tailor
his testimony to what he said at the border. And
it's actually part of this argument about Jake as well,
(08:57):
Jake's recording, and they say no, that allows him to
testify on his own behalf without taking the sand. So
that's where that argument comes up, and it turns into
another legal battle and it's won. The prosecution wins with
Jake's interview ruled as inadmissible. At this point in the trial,
the prosecution calls up their next witness, Please treasure right Hayn,
(09:20):
Can you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're
about to give show me the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, as you shall answer into God,
I did BCI Agent Jennifer thomas Ford has six years
experience with the Special Investigations Unit in Ohio BCI. She
wears a polka dot shirt and a blazer with straight
brown hair that falls to her shoulders. She is relaxed
(09:40):
on the stand. Agent Commasford was one of the agents
present for the searches of the Wagner's farm and trailers.
She was also on the team of agents that interviewed
the Wagners at the Canadian border. You treated it like
a custodial interview. Tell us what that means. We treated
it as a castido interview in that we mirandized Angela
(10:01):
because we treated it as though she was in custody,
not free to leave, and that she was being interrogated.
So we read her her miranda rights. You're her this time,
I would request to play the recording of Special Agent
Thomasford's interview with Andela Wagner at the Montana border. The
prosecution cues up the tape of Angela's interview and begins
(10:22):
playing it for the jury. The defendant, George Wagner, stares
down at his feet, but the reason was obviously okay.
Dealing with all that all that noise going down in
Type County, and that's the reason we came up here
to get away from all that. Okay, okay, tracing the
media is all over. So have you been following any
of that of course? Yeah, you know, we just want
(10:45):
to get away from down there and talk to you
outside of the state. Ohile, Type County. I think it
would be best for everybody. I have some personal questions
for you though. How was the last oh wear here again,
James Pilcher, This recording of Angela is really significant. First
(11:05):
of all, it's the first time we heard her voice
in the courtroom. But second of all, it gives us
a sense of their state of mind as they're becoming
aware that they're being suspects. They're being treated as suspects.
Agent Comasford and Agent Rick Ward asked about Angelo Wagner's
relationship with the Rodent family. Relationship I had with Ruins
(11:25):
was sooner handed and then my son Jake were together
for five years. Yeah, Okay, did getting married. Yes, they
had a waiting planned, everything was planned out for that,
all this doubt. She had everything organized, everything ready, and
I love that she wanted Britt and she did break
(11:48):
and well it was her of course, she was the
love of his life. I mean, my son doesn't take
anything likely. You know why you don't want to work?
You know what I don't know. I know that Hannah
was really young when her Jake got together. What's the
(12:09):
age difference between two? Annah was thirteen, my son was seventeen.
Sixteen and a half. Some month, investigators ask Angela about
her relationship with Hannahme Rodin, So, your relationship with Hannah
was good. I thought she was a school wreck. But
I thought she was a school rap because she really was.
(12:30):
I mean, no, that's but she was. Your dad loved her.
Get away a m She would give me looks and
she would snarl, and she would tell Jake I was
being mean, and you know, but that's typical teenagers, all typical.
Sometimes mother in laws and the agents bring the conversation
back to Jake's reaction to Hannah rode In dating other people.
(12:53):
So when when Annah gets pregnant with the other Yeah,
how did that quote number one? With the other boyfriend
or boyfriends and Jake? Well one, Jake ne would talk
to the other boyfriends. Actually, Jake the only time he
(13:14):
ever talked to Charlie was whenever the determined the paternity
test showed that Charlie Gilly and not Jake Wagner, was
the father of Hannah's second baby. The agents ask if
Angela was upset about Hannah may getting pregnant by another
man who was not Jake even she told me she
(13:34):
had texted me. When she texted me about being pregnant,
she was gray. I would be ut, I was upset.
I was upset when she looked Jake. Yeah, here's forensic
medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. One of striking things about
this is they begin to talk about the fact that
(13:58):
Hannah had kind of separated her away from the rest
of the family, had gone out and gotten pregnant by
another guy, and I really wonder, you know, she says
that that didn't necessarily upset her. Does anybody actually believe that,
you know, because I think that it would have been
Angela's desire to continue to have controlled, you know, Hannah,
(14:18):
you know, because if you have control over Hannah, you
have control over the child that she had with Jake.
BCI Agent Reward as Angelo about Billy Wagner's relationship with
Hannah may rodin with Hannah, Oh God, he loved that girl.
He caught her his breath. You know, even, I mean
that's I always held Chris, I said, Chris, even if
(14:40):
they break up, she's still going to be sorry that
you're going to have to share. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Well,
we know Steph from interviewing close Wagner family friends that
they were aware that they were kind of under the
lens of law enforce and that they were kind of
(15:01):
planning for potentially being interrogated or talked to. And so
when we hear those recordings, it's so interesting and fascinating. Me.
I mean, I don't think this is so off the cofflic.
I think they had a little bit of a script
in their heads. You're right. But again, even if they
have a script and they have a plan, it's real
different when you're separated for the first time and being
(15:24):
asked and questioned by authorities. This is the moment. This,
by all accounts, is the moment where authorities collected the
most data that would be later used against them. We're
going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
(15:48):
Agents ask Evangelo. Was ever in Chris rodin Senior's trailer?
You better that trailer. We got very Chris Trailer one time, Gosh,
my daughter, well is he living here? Four maybe four
years ago? I don't like sitting on the couch and
(16:11):
that this much don't appear wrong? Know it's his dogs
were great, you know I mean that. No, I don't
like dogs at least I mean friendly. You don't have
to worry about anything like that. No, you you have
to okay this space way if he's there, you're okay. Now,
chance is bit will big love you doll so way
(16:33):
as he can be. All that's wrong? You know they're okay.
Jay Stott didn't every times by chance didn't bite. But
she was not particularly a fan of the Rodents. Sounds
like I thought they were too messy, thought, you know,
she never went over Christina or she went over once
(16:53):
for the Fourth of July party and it was too
smoky and there was too much dog air everywhere. Agents
then bring it back to the murders occurs, what what
were your initial dogs? Was horrified. Henna had just been
to my house just days before the murders. Angela Wagner
says that Hannahme Rodin came by to show her new
(17:16):
baby to Jake, George and Angela. Okay, and everything cool. Yeah,
she was making fun of Jake because he had tried
to dye his hair a little darker brown and it
turned out more black, and she was was making fun
of maybe you know him about his hair and stuff.
And no, we were I mean, everything was fine. Investigators
(17:38):
bring the interview back to the day after the murders.
How the news like in the morning or you know what,
I don't know it was. It was morning watching the news.
And were you guys together, Yeah, Angela tells the agents
she was with Billy at the Peterson Road residence when
(17:59):
she heard the news about the Rodents being murdered. What
was Jake's response, when you guys altogether he was outside.
Agents ask Angelo why she thinks the trailers on her
farm were searched by authorities. This is the part I'm
(18:19):
upset about. We gave him everything they needed and then
you know, we get halfway through the road and they're
down there searching the farm and then I'm sorry what
they did to our stuff and our trailers. It's ridiculous.
All they have done is say, hey, we want to search,
opened the door, you know, search. I've done nothing to hide.
(18:40):
Angela Wagner has then asked if there was a written
custody agreement between Jake and Annime Rodin Now, was there
any type of living will or anything like if something
were to happen, And this is what we're you know
you have that, Tom, Someone want to show you here again,
(19:04):
James Pilcher. We saw it and how they circled around
with Billy, and we saw the same kind of approach.
They obviously had the shoe print stuff. They obviously had
the receipt, they obviously had the shell casings. It takes
them two to three hours to get to the point
where they're presenting that in front of them. The investigator
pulls out a document and places it in front of
(19:26):
Angela Wagner. Right, these are okay, yeah, it is. You
don't remember that. The document appears to be a custody
(19:47):
agreement saying that in the event of Hannah ma Roden's death,
that custody of her daughter would go to Jake Wagner.
It appears to have Hannah's signature on the form. The
detectives tell Angela they found it in her trailer. This
is what we're curious about them, And then it was
do you know who that is? Yeah, that's my mom.
(20:09):
That's your mom. So your mom notorized this night, but
you didn't know about it. I don't remember it. Okay,
here again, Stephanie and Jeff. This is unbelievable to be
hearing for the first time. She's speaking so casually, and
she's talking so cavalierly about her relationship with the Rodents
(20:31):
and Billie's relationship with Hannah May, and it all sounds
kind of cozy. Yeah. We covered in season one of
the podcast when Angela Wagner made that public Facebook post
right after the murders, calling Hannah May wrote and a
daughter to her hoping to catch the monsters who did this,
And this interview is like that post on steroids? How
do you not crack under the pressure. My biggest takeaway
(20:53):
from these recordings is that the Wagner family, at least
Angela in this instance, really thought they conn ouncemart The
document was notorized by Angela's mother, Rita Newcome. The agents
continue to press Angela on the forged custody agreement that
they found in her trailer. We we're just trying to
figure out this. This is really interesting to me and
(21:18):
printed out three weeks before the murder, and you said,
you don't, Okay, I just I don't. They did have
those documents, and they were able to clearly show, hey,
they're signed here, but they were clearly printed out here
on this day from this website. Blank, How do you
(21:38):
explain that there was printed out a week before the
murders and yet they've got a date two years before.
How do you how do you explain this? So I
can't remember I didn't do it. The agents ask if Jake,
Billy or George Wagner could have done the murders. So
I'm asking you think that or anybody in your family.
(21:59):
I'm asking you, okay, can you tell me? Yes? I
can how you definitively know because one of my son
wouldn't do that. He said he had nothing against uh
he had and even though him and Hannah brokeok it
(22:19):
wasn't enough for that agent show Angela Wagner photos of
foot impressions made in blood found at the crime scene.
So what we have of Primeize is they have a
database like we do finger press, Okay, And what we
can do is we can take any shoe tread in
the world and I identify the manufacturer and the size.
(22:42):
Angela Wagner is then showed a pair of shoes. No
ever remember buying those for any reason. I remember seeing
those familiar to know what I know? No, I haven't
seen dad have some enough. The agents then show Angela
a receipt. We have a receipts for those shoes purchased
(23:02):
by you. Okay, I did purchase them. I got them,
but I don't. They are I don't mean shoes, so
they wouldn't wear them. But they wouldn't have used them
on those because I throw them all blame. So you
(23:26):
remember buying them two weeks before? Yeah, I purchased them,
but I'm telling you they didn't like them. They wouldn't
wear them. You know, they wanted a pair of shoes.
They always wear boots hook to do. I bought them
and they didn't. I don't know about that. The agents
show Angela a photo of her coming out of Walmart
the day she purchased the shoes. It was caught on
(23:47):
security cameras in the car. Did you go to did
you go with the kids? Did I mean you look
alone in that picture when you went to Walmart to
buy that stuff back in April two thousand and sixteen. Okay,
you're alone, but I don't know that you're alone getting
back in the car. You're not. No, I was not alone.
Where you will? I know the kids? Was the kids sleeping? Weird?
(24:15):
What we would have been accordingly the DUA? I think
I think they were all in the car. I remember
that one. Okay, two weeks before the homicide, you purchased
two pairs of shoes which identically match bloody footprints in
the crime scene. Okay, that's another report from the shoe
(24:37):
confirming to match the tread. Since the database they born
up with the shoe tread to verify the match, this
report from the case, the driveway agents present another lab
report to Angelo Wagner. They're an identical match. There were
cases recovered from several of the crime scenes. Okay, okayburious calibers, yeah, okay,
(25:05):
these identically match the shellcasings in your groundway. Okay, two
one twocases. We're from the same god they killed. There's
no way, Angela, it's an identical match. There's no way
that they were. There's no way. We have every one
(25:26):
in our ballistics lab, every expert, every fire experts review
and confirm is an identical match. You do know we're
not the only ones that shot guns in our house
right then, there'real people down and in the Times fan
we've been there, there's been several people down there. Angeli,
casings are a definitive match on a blueprint, And I
(25:48):
understand what you're saying on that I did. It's a blueprint.
When I fired, when I fire my weapon, my issued gun,
and it ejects around. Okay, I'm using somewhere else. That's
an identical marriage. James Pilcher. One thing that strikes me
(26:09):
in these interviews, in this table with Angela is how
her demeanor changes the minute they show her the stuff
about the shoes, the bullets, the shell case things, all
of that. She hadn't an answer for it, but you
can almost see based on her voice change and everything else,
and how she starts hammering and pawing and hemming and
(26:31):
all of that the minute they present that how it
her demeanor changes. She immuniately gets defensive to sell a huge,
huge moment there. Joseph Scott Morgan. They've lived in a bubble.
It's very it's protected from everything else from the outside
of the world. Suddenly you know that bubble is no
longer existent. You understand that somebody has penetrated, and somebody's
(26:54):
penetrated that you don't have any control over, and he've
been able to control all these other people in this environment,
and maybe for the first time, fear sets in at
that moment you think you've got all the bases covered.
You know, you're running off the wallmarked my shoes. You're
just you're doing all this and you're trying to work
your logistical magic here, and suddenly somebody's penetrated, and suddenly
(27:17):
you realize there's actually somebody that's smarter than you that's
in the room. But I love the truth from you. Okay,
did something happen. No, I'm not. I'm aware, I'm nothing happen.
But there's but there's you say, you're you told me
ten minutes ago, you're definitively sure. I am. There's too
(27:40):
much more definitive after all this, After all that, we
have casings that we use, we have the same that
was using the price that was shot at your house.
We have shoes. I guess the bottom line is we
have all this. You can understand how this appears. I see,
(28:00):
And this is the if you're gonna have any chance
to talk with us about what happened? What knowledge you
have is now Angelia and not being an arm so
I can tell why they you're talking. Okay, well I'm
not I'm just gonna I'm gonna I don't want to know.
I'm just I'm just gonna stop right here, and I
(28:24):
can give a tone. That's what I'm gonna do, because
I don't know. I'm just to say, agents stop the
interview and the recording. Here's James Pilcher, followed by Joseph
Scott Morgan. I mean you could see it. Right as
soon as they started presenting her the hard evidence she
claimed up She's like, I need a lawyer. Suddenly, all
(28:47):
of that planning that she's done to purchasing the controlling
of everybody, suddenly that's becoming unraveled. She knows she at
least has enough of a survival instinct about her at
that point in time. She knows that she needs to
reach out for counsel, and I mean quick, because the
thing is spinning in a flat spin. Uh and it's
(29:07):
gonna turn out poorly. Forward, let's stop here for another break.
After hearing the interview with Angela Wagner in its entirety,
John Parker with the defense gets up for cross examination.
(29:29):
He asks agent Coomusford about Angelo Wagner's home in Bethel Hill,
where she lived with her family for a time. Were
you aware that she was involved as a fraudulent arsons?
I recall some limited information about there being arson, he claims.
Did you know that one of the houses that burned
(29:50):
down that she had built had a marijuana grow room
in the basement in her direction? I don't know that.
I was aware of that at Buffle Hill, now all right?
Were you aware of her dog breeding business, as she
fraudulently represented the dogs with a pure bread when they
were not No, I was not aware of that. Now,
(30:12):
and Angela told you that Jake was devastated at the
news of Hannah's death. Yes, she did say that, and
you later learned that Jake is actually one of the
shothand and killed her. You learn fair to say angel
(30:33):
has been very deceitful about many things. I would say
that she's been deceitful about things. Yes. At that point,
the end of the defense goes to the BCI agent
who conducted the interview, asking her, Hey, did you ask
her about the dog breeding business? Did you ask her
about the Arsons. Did you ask about the marijuana business?
(30:54):
They said, no, we were trying to solve the murder,
but they were I think trying to sow seeds of
doubt about the effectiveness of the investigation, or at least
the effectiveness of the questions that they asked. She asks
Agent Comusford if any members of the Wagner family had
concerns about the Rodents having custody of the child that
Jake and Hannah shared. My understanding is there were concerns
(31:16):
on the part of the Wagner family that would become
under the custody of the Rodent family. So did you
know which of the Wagners had those concerns, specifically Angela, Jake,
George and Billy. They're building to this conspiracy that it
(31:37):
wasn't just a couple of people, that was the entire family.
And this family is such that if one person knows it,
all four of them know it. So they're still building
to this. They're driving to Alaska, six of them with
two little kids in one car, across country, thousands of
miles together. How would they be able to be that
(31:58):
close and share their fine answers and all of that
and yet not know about killing eight people and planning
to kill eight people and building the guns to kill
eight people and all of that. Special Prosecutor Angiekneppa redirects.
You were asked it appeared that Angela Wagner was alone
when she was in the store purchase seeing those shoes,
(32:20):
and your response was what it was my understanding inside
the store that she was alone. Yes, When she was
outside of the store, was she alone? No? Okay? And
when you base out video evidence okay, specifically she got
into the back of the vehicle, yes, correct, So who
was with Angela Wagner when she bought the shoes at Walmart?
(32:43):
More on that next time. For more information on the
case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Kati
Underscore Studios. The Pikedon Maskers produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane,
Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnou, Abril Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong.
(33:04):
Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tooi music by Jared Aston.
The pike Damasacar is a production of iHeart Radio and
Kati Studios. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the
iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Please welcome Markite County Dogged Festival. Queen Lord,
(33:29):
I just thank you for bringing us all together as
a community. Okay, all sad? There's blood all over the house.
Who could have killed eight family members in one nye?
I lost my best friends and I will never be
the same because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA,
(33:52):
no witnesses. The killer left those children laying in their
mother's blood. The word that comes to my overkill. Who
was the last or month I'm telling you is a framer.
I'm not sitting in prison. One thing I learned, the
smaller the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to
(34:16):
watch our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre,
premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on
Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November
twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts
are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.
It was perhaps the first time George Wagger the fourth
heard his mother's voice in the four years since the
family was arrested. Made you think that my son needed
or money in your veil? And I'm asking you, yes,
how you defenditively? Know? I want the truth from you? Okay?
(00:22):
Did something happen? You can see her attempting to fool
you know, everyone involved in this. Let's face it, We've
got eight dead bodies, four separate locations. How in the
world do you think that you can escape that this
(00:44):
is the Pipon massacre. Returned to Pike County season four,
episode fourteen, the matriarch speaks. It's important to note that
George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not guilty and has
maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner,
whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to
(01:05):
all charges. In the previous episode, we heard about how
law enforcement came to view the Wagners as suspects and
the murders of the Rodin, Manly and Gilly families. Before
it was suspicion and things weren't adding up. Yes, Lead
investigator Ryan Scheiderer says that changed about a year after
the homicides, when BCI agents matched spent shell casings at
(01:28):
the Wagner's home in Peebles. Based on that ballistics evidence,
agents used sirche horns to take deep dives into mobile
devices used by George Wagner, who's on trial for murder,
his brother Jake, and their parents, Billy and Angela Wagner.
After originally preparing to intercept the Wagners in North Dakota,
investigators had to scramble to intercept the family at another
(01:48):
Canadian border entry point. The Wagners were house hunting in Alaska.
As they returned, agents intercepted them at the Canadian border
a year after the murders. Now Wagner is a cues
of helping kill eight members of the Rodent and Gilly families.
Investigators detained the Wagners and placed each member of the
family in a separate room. At this time, I believe
(02:10):
you indicated that you were going to interview them as
suspects instead of your prior contacts with them. Correct. The
gig was up. They knew we were looking at them well.
The Wagners were in custody. Agencies a laptop and an
iPad from their vehicle. Law enforcement also placed listening devices
in the Wagner's SUV and bugged their phones. Upon cross examination,
(02:32):
John Parker from the defense brings up the quality of
the audio obtained from the bug the agent's placed in
the Wagner's vehicle. There's really nothing useful that came from
those listening devices on the vehicles. At first. I did
not work as well as we hoped. Correct, right, there
was nothing useful gait out of that. Correct, The quality
of the audio was less than desirable. There was nothing useful,
(02:55):
gait Correct. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati,
now with Local twelve. And as it turns out, that
was kind of a snapoo too, because the road noise
drowned out anything they could hear. They really didn't get
really much of anything out of that, except, you know,
when everybody came out, They came out one at a time,
(03:18):
and they sat there and they didn't talk about anything. Normally,
if you're innocent and you're pulled over, and all of
a sudden you get out of a four hour interview,
you're going to be asking your family members what the
heck is going on. None of that nothing was hurt
like that on those recordings. Because of the rush to
set up in Montana as opposed to North Dakota, agents
were unable to videotape the interviews since the bug in
(03:41):
the vehicle did not pick up usable audio. The audio
recordings of the interviews at the Canadian border where all
the investigators had you interviewed, Jay, Is that correct? Yes?
Myself and special Agent Moulthard okay. And do you recall
how long that interview goes across four to six hours?
Maybe yes? And Judge we would ask that we'd be
(04:04):
allowed to play Jake Zama. At this point, the prosecution
of Jacks and Judge Steering instructs the jury to leave
the room for a fifteen minute recess. Judge Jeering asks
for the prosecution and defense to present their arguments on
whether Jake's taped interviews should be played for the court.
Just the plain reading of evidence, Rule eight oh one
says that the co conspirac statement is attributed to the defendant.
(04:27):
There's a lot of talk of rule eight oh one,
but the gist of it is that the defense cannot
introduce his evidence. Another co conspirator's testimony during cross only
the state is allowed to do that. That's the whole
nature of the co conspiracy. So they all denied it, right,
that was part of the conspiracy. So he does not
get to put it it now. Even when Jane testifies,
(04:49):
he certainly can use this to cross examine him as
a prior inconsistent statement. At that point, John Parker argues
that Jake's testimony is part of the defense's constitutional right
to a complete defense being a truth. The co conspirator
shading is covered up his ass. We shouldn't have to
(05:13):
wait sign if they call GA he comes out of this.
Officer articipated, he's probably bring when it's time to make
a ruling. Judge Steering decides he needs to hear more argument.
I'm not going to decide ultimately today whether we're going
(05:33):
to be able to play that tape in the defense
side of the case. I've sided that tomorrow morning, after
I've heard arguments here, you should be ready about eight
forty five to go on the record and argue that issue,
and then I'll make that decision. They let the jury
back into the courtroom and Judge Steering addresses the court. Thanks, gentlemen,
the court. We're going to have an early day close today.
(05:56):
The court has some things to do that do not
involve the jury, deering, closes the day early to give
the defense and prosecution time to prepare for tomorrow's hearing.
Here again, James Pilcher. So I pretty much shut down
the trial for the afternoon, and actually the judge held
it under advisement and said I'll roul on it tomorrow.
So we're all on pins and needles the next day
(06:18):
as to whether or not we're gonna have to sit
through six hours of listening to Ryan and Jake talk
to each other. News media reports The latest development in
the trial the defense trying to play Jake Wagner's first
interrogation tape today, but the prosecution said, wait, you can't
do that. We have to enter that as evidence first,
And the judge said, show up here tomorrow morning and
(06:41):
prepare to argue about it and he'll make a decision then.
So that brings us to tomorrow. Will jurors hear Jake
Wagner's five hour interrogation tape, Will they hear Angela Wagner's
two hour interrogation tape? And how will George the man
on trial come up in those tapes. But the next morning,
it's not Jake's interview that makes news, George Wagner the
(07:02):
fourth providing an explosive audio recording of his mom, Angela's
interrogation by BCI agents. It was perhaps the first time
George Wager the fourth heard his mother's voice in the
four years since the family was arrested. Before the jury
is brought in, Judge Deering Hear's arguments about whether to
(07:23):
allow in the audio recording of Jake's interview from when
the Wagners were intercepted at the Canadian border. Prosecutor Angie
Caneppa lays out her reasons for the objection. Jake made
a complete denial. There was nothing that was taken from
that interview by a special adaier that informed next investigative steps.
(07:44):
So I guess really one question would be, for what
purpose is this being requested to be played. Here's John
Parker with the defense, because Ja has flilitated, Angela has
experience experiency, they are all right, and this recording jas
(08:15):
efforts to cover up his involve Finally, Judge Jerry makes
a ruling, Well, I think I understand the arguments of all,
but I'm going to deny the request of defense to
play the tape at this time. Here again, James Pilcher.
One of the interesting things about this day was the
prosecution specifically chooses not to play the tape of the
(08:36):
recording they made with George, and there were some questions, Okay,
why aren't they playing this to show what he was
saying at the time. As for the strategy of this,
we think possibly they're not playing it. So if and
when George decides to take the stand, he can't tailor
his testimony to what he said at the border. And
it's actually part of this argument about Jake as well,
(08:57):
Jake's recording, and they say no, that allows him to
testify on his own behalf without taking the sand. So
that's where that argument comes up, and it turns into
another legal battle and it's won. The prosecution wins with
Jake's interview ruled as inadmissible. At this point in the trial,
the prosecution calls up their next witness, Please treasure right Hayn,
(09:20):
Can you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're
about to give show me the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, as you shall answer into God,
I did BCI Agent Jennifer thomas Ford has six years
experience with the Special Investigations Unit in Ohio BCI. She
wears a polka dot shirt and a blazer with straight
brown hair that falls to her shoulders. She is relaxed
(09:40):
on the stand. Agent Commasford was one of the agents
present for the searches of the Wagner's farm and trailers.
She was also on the team of agents that interviewed
the Wagners at the Canadian border. You treated it like
a custodial interview. Tell us what that means. We treated
it as a castido interview in that we mirandized Angela
(10:01):
because we treated it as though she was in custody,
not free to leave, and that she was being interrogated.
So we read her her miranda rights. You're her this time,
I would request to play the recording of Special Agent
Thomasford's interview with Andela Wagner at the Montana border. The
prosecution cues up the tape of Angela's interview and begins
(10:22):
playing it for the jury. The defendant, George Wagner, stares
down at his feet, but the reason was obviously okay.
Dealing with all that all that noise going down in
Type County, and that's the reason we came up here
to get away from all that. Okay, okay, tracing the
media is all over. So have you been following any
of that of course? Yeah, you know, we just want
(10:45):
to get away from down there and talk to you
outside of the state. Ohile, Type County. I think it
would be best for everybody. I have some personal questions
for you though. How was the last oh wear here again,
James Pilcher, This recording of Angela is really significant. First
(11:05):
of all, it's the first time we heard her voice
in the courtroom. But second of all, it gives us
a sense of their state of mind as they're becoming
aware that they're being suspects. They're being treated as suspects.
Agent Comasford and Agent Rick Ward asked about Angelo Wagner's
relationship with the Rodent family. Relationship I had with Ruins
(11:25):
was sooner handed and then my son Jake were together
for five years. Yeah, Okay, did getting married. Yes, they
had a waiting planned, everything was planned out for that,
all this doubt. She had everything organized, everything ready, and
I love that she wanted Britt and she did break
(11:48):
and well it was her of course, she was the
love of his life. I mean, my son doesn't take
anything likely. You know why you don't want to work?
You know what I don't know. I know that Hannah
was really young when her Jake got together. What's the
(12:09):
age difference between two? Annah was thirteen, my son was seventeen.
Sixteen and a half. Some month, investigators ask Angela about
her relationship with Hannahme Rodin, So, your relationship with Hannah
was good. I thought she was a school wreck. But
I thought she was a school rap because she really was.
(12:30):
I mean, no, that's but she was. Your dad loved her.
Get away a m She would give me looks and
she would snarl, and she would tell Jake I was
being mean, and you know, but that's typical teenagers, all typical.
Sometimes mother in laws and the agents bring the conversation
back to Jake's reaction to Hannah rode In dating other people.
(12:53):
So when when Annah gets pregnant with the other Yeah,
how did that quote number one? With the other boyfriend
or boyfriends and Jake? Well one, Jake ne would talk
to the other boyfriends. Actually, Jake the only time he
(13:14):
ever talked to Charlie was whenever the determined the paternity
test showed that Charlie Gilly and not Jake Wagner, was
the father of Hannah's second baby. The agents ask if
Angela was upset about Hannah may getting pregnant by another
man who was not Jake even she told me she
(13:34):
had texted me. When she texted me about being pregnant,
she was gray. I would be ut, I was upset.
I was upset when she looked Jake. Yeah, here's forensic
medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. One of striking things about
this is they begin to talk about the fact that
(13:58):
Hannah had kind of separated her away from the rest
of the family, had gone out and gotten pregnant by
another guy, and I really wonder, you know, she says
that that didn't necessarily upset her. Does anybody actually believe that,
you know, because I think that it would have been
Angela's desire to continue to have controlled, you know, Hannah,
(14:18):
you know, because if you have control over Hannah, you
have control over the child that she had with Jake.
BCI Agent Reward as Angelo about Billy Wagner's relationship with
Hannah may rodin with Hannah, Oh God, he loved that girl.
He caught her his breath. You know, even, I mean
that's I always held Chris, I said, Chris, even if
(14:40):
they break up, she's still going to be sorry that
you're going to have to share. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Well,
we know Steph from interviewing close Wagner family friends that
they were aware that they were kind of under the
lens of law enforce and that they were kind of
(15:01):
planning for potentially being interrogated or talked to. And so
when we hear those recordings, it's so interesting and fascinating. Me.
I mean, I don't think this is so off the cofflic.
I think they had a little bit of a script
in their heads. You're right. But again, even if they
have a script and they have a plan, it's real
different when you're separated for the first time and being
(15:24):
asked and questioned by authorities. This is the moment. This,
by all accounts, is the moment where authorities collected the
most data that would be later used against them. We're
going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
(15:48):
Agents ask Evangelo. Was ever in Chris rodin Senior's trailer?
You better that trailer. We got very Chris Trailer one time, Gosh,
my daughter, well is he living here? Four maybe four
years ago? I don't like sitting on the couch and
(16:11):
that this much don't appear wrong? Know it's his dogs
were great, you know I mean that. No, I don't
like dogs at least I mean friendly. You don't have
to worry about anything like that. No, you you have
to okay this space way if he's there, you're okay. Now,
chance is bit will big love you doll so way
(16:33):
as he can be. All that's wrong? You know they're okay.
Jay Stott didn't every times by chance didn't bite. But
she was not particularly a fan of the Rodents. Sounds
like I thought they were too messy, thought, you know,
she never went over Christina or she went over once
(16:53):
for the Fourth of July party and it was too
smoky and there was too much dog air everywhere. Agents
then bring it back to the murders occurs, what what
were your initial dogs? Was horrified. Henna had just been
to my house just days before the murders. Angela Wagner
says that Hannahme Rodin came by to show her new
(17:16):
baby to Jake, George and Angela. Okay, and everything cool. Yeah,
she was making fun of Jake because he had tried
to dye his hair a little darker brown and it
turned out more black, and she was was making fun
of maybe you know him about his hair and stuff.
And no, we were I mean, everything was fine. Investigators
(17:38):
bring the interview back to the day after the murders.
How the news like in the morning or you know what,
I don't know it was. It was morning watching the news.
And were you guys together, Yeah, Angela tells the agents
she was with Billy at the Peterson Road residence when
(17:59):
she heard the news about the Rodents being murdered. What
was Jake's response, when you guys altogether he was outside.
Agents ask Angelo why she thinks the trailers on her
farm were searched by authorities. This is the part I'm
(18:19):
upset about. We gave him everything they needed and then
you know, we get halfway through the road and they're
down there searching the farm and then I'm sorry what
they did to our stuff and our trailers. It's ridiculous.
All they have done is say, hey, we want to search,
opened the door, you know, search. I've done nothing to hide.
(18:40):
Angela Wagner has then asked if there was a written
custody agreement between Jake and Annime Rodin Now, was there
any type of living will or anything like if something
were to happen, And this is what we're you know
you have that, Tom, Someone want to show you here again,
(19:04):
James Pilcher. We saw it and how they circled around
with Billy, and we saw the same kind of approach.
They obviously had the shoe print stuff. They obviously had
the receipt, they obviously had the shell casings. It takes
them two to three hours to get to the point
where they're presenting that in front of them. The investigator
pulls out a document and places it in front of
(19:26):
Angela Wagner. Right, these are okay, yeah, it is. You
don't remember that. The document appears to be a custody
(19:47):
agreement saying that in the event of Hannah ma Roden's death,
that custody of her daughter would go to Jake Wagner.
It appears to have Hannah's signature on the form. The
detectives tell Angela they found it in her trailer. This
is what we're curious about them, And then it was
do you know who that is? Yeah, that's my mom.
(20:09):
That's your mom. So your mom notorized this night, but
you didn't know about it. I don't remember it. Okay,
here again, Stephanie and Jeff. This is unbelievable to be
hearing for the first time. She's speaking so casually, and
she's talking so cavalierly about her relationship with the Rodents
(20:31):
and Billie's relationship with Hannah May, and it all sounds
kind of cozy. Yeah. We covered in season one of
the podcast when Angela Wagner made that public Facebook post
right after the murders, calling Hannah May wrote and a
daughter to her hoping to catch the monsters who did this,
And this interview is like that post on steroids? How
do you not crack under the pressure. My biggest takeaway
(20:53):
from these recordings is that the Wagner family, at least
Angela in this instance, really thought they conn ouncemart The
document was notorized by Angela's mother, Rita Newcome. The agents
continue to press Angela on the forged custody agreement that
they found in her trailer. We we're just trying to
figure out this. This is really interesting to me and
(21:18):
printed out three weeks before the murder, and you said,
you don't, Okay, I just I don't. They did have
those documents, and they were able to clearly show, hey,
they're signed here, but they were clearly printed out here
on this day from this website. Blank, How do you
(21:38):
explain that there was printed out a week before the
murders and yet they've got a date two years before.
How do you how do you explain this? So I
can't remember I didn't do it. The agents ask if Jake,
Billy or George Wagner could have done the murders. So
I'm asking you think that or anybody in your family.
(21:59):
I'm asking you, okay, can you tell me? Yes? I
can how you definitively know because one of my son
wouldn't do that. He said he had nothing against uh
he had and even though him and Hannah brokeok it
(22:19):
wasn't enough for that agent show Angela Wagner photos of
foot impressions made in blood found at the crime scene.
So what we have of Primeize is they have a
database like we do finger press, Okay, And what we
can do is we can take any shoe tread in
the world and I identify the manufacturer and the size.
(22:42):
Angela Wagner is then showed a pair of shoes. No
ever remember buying those for any reason. I remember seeing
those familiar to know what I know? No, I haven't
seen dad have some enough. The agents then show Angela
a receipt. We have a receipts for those shoes purchased
(23:02):
by you. Okay, I did purchase them. I got them,
but I don't. They are I don't mean shoes, so
they wouldn't wear them. But they wouldn't have used them
on those because I throw them all blame. So you
(23:26):
remember buying them two weeks before? Yeah, I purchased them,
but I'm telling you they didn't like them. They wouldn't
wear them. You know, they wanted a pair of shoes.
They always wear boots hook to do. I bought them
and they didn't. I don't know about that. The agents
show Angela a photo of her coming out of Walmart
the day she purchased the shoes. It was caught on
(23:47):
security cameras in the car. Did you go to did
you go with the kids? Did I mean you look
alone in that picture when you went to Walmart to
buy that stuff back in April two thousand and sixteen. Okay,
you're alone, but I don't know that you're alone getting
back in the car. You're not. No, I was not alone.
Where you will? I know the kids? Was the kids sleeping? Weird?
(24:15):
What we would have been accordingly the DUA? I think
I think they were all in the car. I remember
that one. Okay, two weeks before the homicide, you purchased
two pairs of shoes which identically match bloody footprints in
the crime scene. Okay, that's another report from the shoe
(24:37):
confirming to match the tread. Since the database they born
up with the shoe tread to verify the match, this
report from the case, the driveway agents present another lab
report to Angelo Wagner. They're an identical match. There were
cases recovered from several of the crime scenes. Okay, okayburious calibers, yeah, okay,
(25:05):
these identically match the shellcasings in your groundway. Okay, two
one twocases. We're from the same god they killed. There's
no way, Angela, it's an identical match. There's no way
that they were. There's no way. We have every one
(25:26):
in our ballistics lab, every expert, every fire experts review
and confirm is an identical match. You do know we're
not the only ones that shot guns in our house
right then, there'real people down and in the Times fan
we've been there, there's been several people down there. Angeli,
casings are a definitive match on a blueprint, And I
(25:48):
understand what you're saying on that I did. It's a blueprint.
When I fired, when I fire my weapon, my issued gun,
and it ejects around. Okay, I'm using somewhere else. That's
an identical marriage. James Pilcher. One thing that strikes me
(26:09):
in these interviews, in this table with Angela is how
her demeanor changes the minute they show her the stuff
about the shoes, the bullets, the shell case things, all
of that. She hadn't an answer for it, but you
can almost see based on her voice change and everything else,
and how she starts hammering and pawing and hemming and
(26:31):
all of that the minute they present that how it
her demeanor changes. She immuniately gets defensive to sell a huge,
huge moment there. Joseph Scott Morgan. They've lived in a bubble.
It's very it's protected from everything else from the outside
of the world. Suddenly you know that bubble is no
longer existent. You understand that somebody has penetrated, and somebody's
(26:54):
penetrated that you don't have any control over, and he've
been able to control all these other people in this environment,
and maybe for the first time, fear sets in at
that moment you think you've got all the bases covered.
You know, you're running off the wallmarked my shoes. You're
just you're doing all this and you're trying to work
your logistical magic here, and suddenly somebody's penetrated, and suddenly
(27:17):
you realize there's actually somebody that's smarter than you that's
in the room. But I love the truth from you. Okay,
did something happen. No, I'm not. I'm aware, I'm nothing happen.
But there's but there's you say, you're you told me
ten minutes ago, you're definitively sure. I am. There's too
(27:40):
much more definitive after all this, After all that, we
have casings that we use, we have the same that
was using the price that was shot at your house.
We have shoes. I guess the bottom line is we
have all this. You can understand how this appears. I see,
(28:00):
And this is the if you're gonna have any chance
to talk with us about what happened? What knowledge you
have is now Angelia and not being an arm so
I can tell why they you're talking. Okay, well I'm
not I'm just gonna I'm gonna I don't want to know.
I'm just I'm just gonna stop right here, and I
(28:24):
can give a tone. That's what I'm gonna do, because
I don't know. I'm just to say, agents stop the
interview and the recording. Here's James Pilcher, followed by Joseph
Scott Morgan. I mean you could see it. Right as
soon as they started presenting her the hard evidence she
claimed up She's like, I need a lawyer. Suddenly, all
(28:47):
of that planning that she's done to purchasing the controlling
of everybody, suddenly that's becoming unraveled. She knows she at
least has enough of a survival instinct about her at
that point in time. She knows that she needs to
reach out for counsel, and I mean quick, because the
thing is spinning in a flat spin. Uh and it's
(29:07):
gonna turn out poorly. Forward, let's stop here for another break.
After hearing the interview with Angela Wagner in its entirety,
John Parker with the defense gets up for cross examination.
(29:29):
He asks agent Coomusford about Angelo Wagner's home in Bethel Hill,
where she lived with her family for a time. Were
you aware that she was involved as a fraudulent arsons?
I recall some limited information about there being arson, he claims.
Did you know that one of the houses that burned
(29:50):
down that she had built had a marijuana grow room
in the basement in her direction? I don't know that.
I was aware of that at Buffle Hill, now all right?
Were you aware of her dog breeding business, as she
fraudulently represented the dogs with a pure bread when they
were not No, I was not aware of that. Now,
(30:12):
and Angela told you that Jake was devastated at the
news of Hannah's death. Yes, she did say that, and
you later learned that Jake is actually one of the
shothand and killed her. You learn fair to say angel
(30:33):
has been very deceitful about many things. I would say
that she's been deceitful about things. Yes. At that point,
the end of the defense goes to the BCI agent
who conducted the interview, asking her, Hey, did you ask
her about the dog breeding business? Did you ask her
about the Arsons. Did you ask about the marijuana business?
(30:54):
They said, no, we were trying to solve the murder,
but they were I think trying to sow seeds of
doubt about the effectiveness of the investigation, or at least
the effectiveness of the questions that they asked. She asks
Agent Comusford if any members of the Wagner family had
concerns about the Rodents having custody of the child that
Jake and Hannah shared. My understanding is there were concerns
(31:16):
on the part of the Wagner family that would become
under the custody of the Rodent family. So did you
know which of the Wagners had those concerns, specifically Angela, Jake,
George and Billy. They're building to this conspiracy that it
(31:37):
wasn't just a couple of people, that was the entire family.
And this family is such that if one person knows it,
all four of them know it. So they're still building
to this. They're driving to Alaska, six of them with
two little kids in one car, across country, thousands of
miles together. How would they be able to be that
(31:58):
close and share their fine answers and all of that
and yet not know about killing eight people and planning
to kill eight people and building the guns to kill
eight people and all of that. Special Prosecutor Angiekneppa redirects.
You were asked it appeared that Angela Wagner was alone
when she was in the store purchase seeing those shoes,
(32:20):
and your response was what it was my understanding inside
the store that she was alone. Yes, When she was
outside of the store, was she alone? No? Okay? And
when you base out video evidence okay, specifically she got
into the back of the vehicle, yes, correct, So who
was with Angela Wagner when she bought the shoes at Walmart?
(32:43):
More on that next time. For more information on the
case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Kati
Underscore Studios. The Pikedon Maskers produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane,
Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnou, Abril Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong.
(33:04):
Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tooi music by Jared Aston.
The pike Damasacar is a production of iHeart Radio and
Kati Studios. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the
iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Please welcome Markite County Dogged Festival. Queen Lord,
(33:29):
I just thank you for bringing us all together as
a community. Okay, all sad? There's blood all over the house.
Who could have killed eight family members in one nye?
I lost my best friends and I will never be
the same because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA,
(33:52):
no witnesses. The killer left those children laying in their
mother's blood. The word that comes to my overkill. Who
was the last or month I'm telling you is a framer.
I'm not sitting in prison. One thing I learned, the
smaller the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to
(34:16):
watch our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre,
premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on
Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November
twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts
are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Lydecker
Courtney Armstrong
Jeff Shane
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