September 16, 2020 • 35 mins
With Fredericka Wagner and Rita Jo Newcomb spared jail time in connection with the Rhoden murders, we turn our focus to the four other family members awaiting their days in court.
In episode eight, we look at what life in prison is like for Billy, Angela, George and Jake Wagner, the four accused “trigger pullers” in the Rhoden murders. George has requested solitary confinement and Angela’s phone and mail privileges have been revoked. How does this affect their upcoming trials and overall quality of life? We’ll also examine both the prosecution and defenses’ arguments, the turns the case has taken since their imprisonment and how the outcome will shape the legacy of Ohio’s largest mass murder.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Pikedon Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and
Katie's Studios, Episode eight, Truth Be Revealed. Over the course
of seven episodes, we have examined the details of the
murders of eight members of the Rodent family, the investigation
that was launched in their wake, and what led up
to the arrests of six members of the Wagner family.
(00:21):
Now we're going to look at where the case stands
and what lies ahead next week's episode, Burning Questions. I'm
Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with Stephanie
Leidecker and Jeff Shane. When we left off last week,
it was June twenty sixth, twenty nineteen, and Frederica Wagner
was in the defendant's chair in a Pike County courtroom.
(00:42):
She was facing charges of obstruction of justice and perjury
and connection with the Rodent murders. Here's Frederica's niece Deray
defending her aunt's claims.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
First, the prosecutors falsely believed the bulletproof best were purchased
before the road and homicides. Both sides know that it
is not true. They were in fact purchased on May
the seventh, twenty sixteen, fifteen days after the date of
the road homicides.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
So that's proven. We know that there's like receipts, right.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yep, got receipts. We have everything.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Second, she guessed and thought that she bought them from Amazon.
Now why they made a big deal about what what origin?
Speaker 4 (01:29):
They came off the internet? She ordered them off the internet.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Whenever you go on the Internet, a bunch of places
come up. Usually Amazon's the first thing that comes up.
She did that a lot, but they made a big
deal about it. So they went back through her books
and they found out that she did buy them, but
it wasn't from Amazon, it was eBay.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
But criminal defense attorney Mike Allen told Jeff that Frederica's
statements are a much bigger deal than deraythe.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Well, obviously, when you have a situation like this and
someone involved with the people that are charged makes a
purchase of two bulletproof vests, whether it's from eBay or Amazon,
it's something that the prosecution would be interested in. And
you know, she apparently was before the grand jury when
she misrepresented, if you will, where she bought these things from.
(02:25):
And it's relevant and also too. I think it would
be fair to say that the prosecution probably wanted this
put on of these charges put on her to have
a little bit of leverage with her too.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Do you think that her explanation of just saying, oh,
I don't remember, I got it confused as an attorney,
do you think that makes someone look more guilty?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yeah, it does, especially something like this. And I know
she's elderly, but she certainly seems like she's pretty sharp.
But it's a rather big event. In most people's lives,
if they purchase bulletproof vests online or any you purchased them,
you would think that you would remember where you purchased
them from. So yeah, it doesn't make her look good
(03:08):
at all.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Ultimately, Frederica Wagner's lawyer filed receipts that proved she made
the purchases fifteen days after the slayings. This led the
defense team to turn over potential evidence as required to
the prosecution, too late to meet the criteria for a
speedy trial. They dismissed the charges against Frederica Wagner, while
reserving the right to charge her again. Mike Allen broke
(03:34):
down what all this means.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
With respect to the Ohio Speedy Trial Statute. It's generally
you have to bring a felony case within two hundred
and seventy days from the indictment. I think the prosecution
was running out of time, so strategically, I think they
decided to dismiss it with the option and the right
to refile it again if that becomes necessary.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
So so you can get charged with the same crimes again.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Oh yeah, they were dismissed without prejudice, which means that
the state can refile them at a later date.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But it seems that Frederica Wagner doesn't foresee that happening. Here.
She is speaking to the press after the.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
Hearing, Trusting the Lord with all your heart, lean not
to your own understanding in all your ways, Acknowledge him
and he will direct your path. And as my attorney
will tell you, it was dismissed.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Because I was innocent.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
They had no evidence against me. I never lied about anything.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Frederica Wagner's freedom validates what Deray has believed all along.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
She has never in her life done anything wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
She's not capable of it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
And you know, if she thought that her kids would
have done something bad, she would have recommended.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
That they turn themselves in for anything.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I mean, she loves. She lives by what she says
she lives by, which is what well. She gives all
the glory to God.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Angela, Billy Jake, and George Wagner were charged with aggravated murder.
Angela Wagner's mother, Rita jo Nucom and Billy Wagner's mother,
Frederica were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury.
Newcomb was also charged with forgery. All six of them
pled not guilty, and our justice system presumes innocence until
guilt is proven. But one thing that doesn't help Frederica
(05:37):
Wagner's case is a revelation by the prosecution at a
pre trial hearing for her son Billy in twenty twenty,
the state submitted evidence showing that the night before Frederica
testified before the grand jury in twenty eighteen, she had
searched the Internet for information about penalties for perjury. Here's
our anonymous Wagner family relative. She shared her thoughts with Jeff.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Do you think that his mom, Billy's mom, Frederica, do
you think she had any involvement?
Speaker 7 (06:04):
I believe that. I believe she could have yeah, I
believe that she definitely, Uh, I don't believe she tried
to stop it, you know, I don't believe that she.
I believe that anything. She probably definely she would have
encouraged it and her storry to do.
Speaker 8 (06:20):
What he did.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Others like Rodent family friend Stephanne thinks that Frederica wasn't
just involved in the murders, but could possibly have orchestrated
the whole thing.
Speaker 9 (06:31):
I don't take her for a dumb woman at all.
She's a business woman. She's probably shrewd. She's the head
the monarch, you know, so the monarch is usually the
one that has their thumb on everybody. She wanted to
control over everything, seems to me.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Like to investigative journalist Jodi Barr, the alleged involvement of
Frederica Wagner up ends conventions of who actually could be
capable of being involved in murder.
Speaker 10 (07:01):
I think this case, if it ended today as it
is alleged, I don't think there is anybody on this
planet that can look at those people and say, those
people look like a family who could slaughter eight human beings.
If you ever thought you knew what a mass murderer
looked like, I think this case in Pike County is
showing you you have no idea.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So here we are four years later. Two of the
six defendants are free and four others are in prison
facing death penalty charges, accused of killing eight members of
the Rodent family. Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 11 (07:39):
As it stands now, the trials for Billy, Angela, Jake,
and George Wagner are slated to begin in the next
few months. Now I really understand this case and where
it stands and what's to come, we'll have to examine
some of the most important points. In the five thousand
pages of discovery documents that list the prosecution's evidence, there
are more than three hundred and thirty two thousand files
(07:59):
of evidence in this case.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
One of the exhibits in the prosecution's arsenal is related
to Billy Wagner in his copy of the nineteen ninety
nine movie The Boondock Saints. The film is about two
brothers in Boston who exacted a form of vigilanty justice
by murdering mobsters and other criminals. It's extremely violent and
over the top, but the big takeaway for this case
is that the brothers in the film use silencers on
(08:21):
their guns, a method that members of the Wagner family
are accused of using to execute the Rodents. As we
covered in the last episode, a homemade silencer was discovered
at a farm once owned by Jake and George Wagner,
but Deray thinks the connection is tenuous at best.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I read that and I had to laugh. I had
to laugh so hard. Okay, so you have to remember
that this was a very organized, brilliantly done execution. This
(08:58):
is something that you wouldn't learn.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
On a DVD.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Somebody with military background, Navy seals. I mean, whoever did
it was brilliant.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
They're professional.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
These people are not professional killers.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Mike Allen told Jeff that the DVD could be a
building block in the state's case.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
You can't watch a movie and learn how to wipe
out an entire family. That seems like a stretch. What
is your take on that.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Yeah, I don't think they could introduce it for the
proposition that that's how the Wagners learned how to do that.
I think if the state introduced it or attempted to
get it introduced, it would just be kind of peripheral
to like Hey, you know somebody in that family watched
that movie or ordered that movie or bought that movie,
(09:53):
and it's a movie about vigil anti justice. But I
would certainly try at least because apparently in this case,
the allegation is silencers were used, and they were used
in that movie as well, So it would be one
piece of evidence that they could add on to other evidence.
It would be a piece of evidence if admitted, that
(10:14):
they could talk about in closing arguments. So, while not
determinative in any way, shape or form, it is evidence
that could be helpful to the state.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
There's a mountain of other evidence. The prosecution plans on
using one that stands out as an Excel spreadsheet that
contains five hundred and nineteen entries of messages about child custody.
I spoke with my Gallon about it. Another piece of
evidence that's been talked about are these Excel spreadsheets. Apparently
they had hundreds of entries of cataloging the messages about
(10:48):
child custody and Facebook screenshots. Regarding it, what does that tell.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
You, Well, it tells me that could be part of
the motive in this case, and it's pretty strong evidence
motive if they're keeping all these things in screenshots, and
it seems that they were kind of obsessed with his
desire to get custody and control. That would be circumstantial,
but in circumstantial evidence sometimes can be very strong evidence.
(11:16):
Just because evidence is circumstantial doesn't mean that it's not
good evidence and strong evidence. But you know, it's like
you're dropping, you know, pebbles into a pond. Every little
pebble makes a ripple, and you know, you build on
those things, and at the end of the day, if
the prosecution does it right, every little bit helps with
(11:36):
respect to building a case.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
The discovery documents also include information about a person that
some speculator could be an informant Jody Barr told us
about trying to track down this source. The name of
the informant has not been published, which is why it's
bleeped in his interview.
Speaker 10 (11:55):
Only thing I know is that was a name given
very early on who I was told did business with
Chris Rodin. I was never able to even find that
this person exists.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I guess they did. This person really does exist. But
when I was given a list of names.
Speaker 10 (12:12):
Of people who could have potentially either been involved in
this knew about this This is one person I tried
to track down and find over in Sciota County, which
is just across the line from Pike, and I was
never able to find this person.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
But I was told that this person knew Chris Senior.
Speaker 10 (12:30):
It's me as far as you know, they were together
a lot, and they were in some business ventures together.
But again I was never able to find this person
or to verify anything that was ever told me about them.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Prosecutors for the case claim another confidential informant told them
of a specific meeting at Frederica Wagner's home. It occurred
with the other accused family members and allegedly included talk
of quote taking revenge on a special agent then Attorney
General Mike DeWine and Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader. The
(13:09):
revengel was allegedly planned if her family was arrested. Jody
Barr dissected these claims with Jeff.
Speaker 10 (13:16):
It just seems so careless that the people accused of
this would be bringing outsiders into a home, although we
don't know who the confidential informant is, but that they
would risk getting caught if they were so skillful in
pulling this off that they would bring outsiders in to
have discussions like this where they're number one admitting it essentially,
(13:37):
But secondly, you're talking about taking hits out on the
chief law enforcer in Pike County and the chief law
enforcement for the state of Ohio.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
But that's an interesting point that it doesn't really compute
that if they were like Ninja's and they could do
this elaborate crime, why would they be so sloppy then
to have these conversations with other people.
Speaker 10 (13:54):
When I see confidential informant in this sentence, man, a
part of me goes, I wonder if one of the
Wagners has rolled over and is helping this investigations still
something I know there have been some plea deals already
made here, some charges dismissed.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
But you've got to wonder who.
Speaker 10 (14:16):
Is this informant, because if it's a member of the
Wagner family, and I think that's a twist no one
saw coming.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Let's stop here for a quick commercial break. We'll be
back in a moment. The discovery documents also have twenty
nine and eighteen pages related to DNA evidence. Mike Allen
(14:48):
spoke to us about the role of DNA could play
in the case.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
I can tell you from dealing with DNA evidence, both
as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney, that's not
good news for the defense. If they've got almost three
thousand pages of DNA evidence, evidence that would have been
sent to the lab and comes back, they've got to
have something. I mean, I would be shocked if they
(15:11):
didn't have some credible DNA evidence against at least one
of these defendants, probably more of them. That's bad news
for the defense. There's just no way of getting around it.
Because DNA evidence, if extracted properly and analyzed properly, it's
pretty much lights out if they did it correctly. So
(15:34):
I think that's problematic for the defense.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 11 (15:41):
In addition, the report also lists and seventy crime scene photos,
cyber forensic reports of the Wagners, their cell phones and
their computers, and hundreds of pages citing reference to the
recovery of firearms and ballistic testing. In fact, at the
pre trial hearing for George Wagner just a few weeks ago,
we got a glimpse into some of the evidence they have.
(16:03):
So this hearing was for emotion. The defense was making
to get George Wagner, the eldest son, released from prison
on bond. In response, the prosecution laid out some of
the evidence they have against George Wagner, basically as an
argument to keep George behind bars. One of the lead
detectives on the case testified that he and his team
have real ballistic evidence connecting firearms used in the homicides
(16:26):
with guns believed to be owned by the Wagners, including
a twenty two caliber long rifle, a forty caliber handgun,
and a thirty caliber gun. Prosecutors also pointed to evidence
that shoe prints from the exact same shoes purchased at
Walmart by the Wagners to allegedly frame Dana Rodin's brother,
you remember, James Manly, were found in dried blood at
(16:49):
two of the crime scenes. And get this, In fact,
receipts for those exact same shoes, they're a very specific
Walmart athletic shoe were found during a search of Wagner
property in twenty sixteen. There are also over eight thousand
recorded statements from interviews with George Wagner, who claimed there
really was no issue regarding custody between Jake Wagner and
(17:12):
Hannah Rodin over their daughter Sophia, and that we know
is just not true.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Right. So with all of this, the Wagners still continued
to declare their innocence. Is it really possible that they did,
in fact have nothing to do with it? Well, recently
one of the Wagner's lawyers made statements to the press
saying that a loose custody arrangement between Jake Wagner and
Hannah fur their daughter Sophia, was being formalized by another
attorney in Ohio at the time of the killings, but
due to the fact that Hannah was murdered, the agreement
(17:39):
was never formalized, so it's not permissible in court. I
spoke with Deray about her second cousin, Jake Wagner, to
see if we could get any more information on the
custody arrangement between him and Hannah Rodin. Do you know
anything about like they were trying to get custody of
Sophia before the murders.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I don't know anything about that.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Okay, Yeah, I was just curious, Yeah, because you hear
a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, I never heard, you know, I talked to my
antalot that was never mentioned.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
So do you think that that is fabricated as well?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
If I'm hearing you right, I don't believe that it
has anything.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
To do with it.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I don't believe there was a custody battle. I think
that's another made up lie.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
What makes you say that because.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I never heard anything about it. I mean, somebody did it,
but we don't know who, and we're for sure it
wasn't the Wagner family.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
It's a tragedy, and most.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Of the people that I talked to, they're all thinking
it's drug related, something that had to do with drug trafficking.
We don't know. It's who knows.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
It's a mystery.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
We found it strange for a woman who covers her
family's case closely not to know anything about the custody
issues that other family relatives disclosed to us before.
Speaker 11 (19:00):
Even stranger is something else that was presented at George
Wagner's most recent pre trial hearing. Again he's the eldest son.
Prosecutors pointed to a screenshot of a message from Hannah
Rodin to one of her friends. In this message, she's
discussing the Wagner's attempt to force her to sign forged
custody documents. The ones that we've talked about in previous episodes.
(19:21):
Now get this. The screenshot was found on the Wagner
family computer seized during the investigation, and again allegedly the
Wagner's got it by hacking into Hannah Rodin's Facebook account.
The message is nothing short of chilling. It reads and
I quote, I won't sign papers. Ever, it won't happen.
(19:42):
They'll have to kill me first end quote.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It does seem clear that the Wagners were sort of
obsessed with custody and control of Sophia, and in speaking
with people close to the family, this actually wasn't the
first time custody became an issue. Christina Howard's sister, Tabby,
was married to George Wagner for several years. The two
had a son together, but eventually split up.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
According to Christina, following their divorce, the Wagner family tried
to force Tabby into handing over custody of their son.
This is Christina's recollection of events. She spoke to Jeff
about it.
Speaker 8 (20:19):
Somehow or another angela like manipulated her with different papers
to sign and stuff, and they had Tabby finding over
the rights and custody to George. You know, they had
money for expensive lawyer. Tabby didn't, and so they had
(20:40):
custody plumb up until you know, they got caught and
stuff for the crimes.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Do you think that she was obsessed with having custody
of all of her grandkids?
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (20:51):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Why do you say that?
Speaker 8 (20:54):
Tabby Like whenever she would try to reach out to George, like, hey,
can I come visit my son, and Angela would get
on there and be like, oh, he's not your son anymore.
Would tell Tabby like, oh, you might have gave birth
to him, but I'm his real mother because I take
care of him, and all these just nasty things.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And Christina told us that in the aftermath of Tabby
and George's custody battle, Hannah rode In contacted Tabby for
advice and how to deal with their own custody issues
with the Wagoners.
Speaker 8 (21:29):
I knew that Hannah was struggling to keep custody of
Sophia because she went to her and my sister were
pretty close, and you know, Tabby straight up told her
like a if they present me with papers, do not
sign them. Give them to a lawyer first.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Let the lawyer read it.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
Over and proceed from there, because they will try to
steal custody of Sophia, even if they're trying to act
like they're understated, and all of the swords. Do not
listen to them because they will scree you over.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Christina's account of George Wagner and Tabby's dispute, in addition
to everything we've heard about Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin,
clearly lays out a pattern of deceit and control when
it comes to custody. But when Jeff asked Deray about
George and Tabby's custody battle, she soundly refuted Christina's claims.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I want your side of this. People say that, like
George had a custody situation where he tried to get
custody of his son Jake, maybe a similar situation. People
are saying that, like Angela was just obsessed with getting
the kids and wanted all the control of the children.
Speaker 8 (22:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I don't believe that. I don't believe that.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I know she loved him, but I don't believe.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
She was obsessed.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I think she was a normal grandmother and then she
was an excellent role model.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
While we don't know all the details of George Wagner
and Tabby's custody case. There is evidence that the Wagners
did deceive Hannah Rodin by trying to convince her to
sign fake custody documents. Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 11 (23:13):
It seems being locked up in prison hasn't even stopped
the Wagners for one second from trying to manipulate those
closest to them. As we discussed earlier in September of
twenty nineteen, Angela Wagner tried to discuss case strategy even
influenced testimony from prison. Prosecutors also claim that Angela Wagner
called her mother Rita Neukom she's the one that's accused
(23:35):
of forging those custody documents. She called her several times
and basically asked her not to testify against the family,
and also told her how to explain away the custody
documents that she's accused of forging.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
As a punishment, a judge suspended Angela Wagner's in jail
phone and mail privileges. Mike Allen told us that this
is just another blow for the defense.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Any criminal defense attorney that is doing their job, and
I'm sure every one of these criminal defense attorneys are
doing their job. They tell their client from day one,
do not, under any circumstances discuss the case on the phone,
because you can guarantee that the conversations are being taked.
(24:19):
Prosecutors can use those conversations if the person is talking
about strategy, makes some kind of admission, intimidates witnesses, the
recording doesn't lie, and that could end up to be
some pretty strong evidence against her at the end of
the day.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
George Wagner has also raised eyebrows for an odd request
he made after five months in prison. He has to
be transferred from general population to solitary confinement. Usually, solitary
confinement is given to a prisoner who either is a
threat to other prisoners or who may be in danger
in the general population. My gallon told is that George
a different reason.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
His stated reason was that you wanted to be able
to study the Bible in peace. That's a little unusual
when inmates ask for solitary a lot of times, although
they may not say it, they're asking for that because
they've been threatened, and you know, they want to make
sure that they're as safe as they can be in jail.
(25:22):
But when I read that, I kind of wondered, is
that the real reason? I mean, you know, you just
have to wonder what the motivation is.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
So how does all this evidence add up? How strong
is the state's case against Billy, Angela Jake and George Wagner.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Now I'm a criminal defense attorney. I used to be
a prosecutor, and as a criminal defense attorney, you know,
you never say never as far as you know your
chances in front of a jury. Having said that, the
evidence sure seems strong, and we don't know all the evidence.
All we know is what's public. So the old adage
(25:58):
that a prosecutor could die ham Sandwich is true. But
smart prosecutors don't indict cases that they don't think they
can win beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think Mike Dwine,
who was in the driver's seat in this thing, there's
no way he would have indicted this if he didn't
think he could prove it, or ultimately someone could prove it.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
At the end of the day, let's stop here for
a quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment.
We've been covering this case for over two years, and
(26:41):
in that time we've examined, not only the details of
the eight murders themselves, but the multiple theories that have
surrounded them. We looked into the speculation of a drug connection.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Discoveries the murder scenes are now advancing the theory the
killings could be related to a drug cartel.
Speaker 12 (26:56):
The Rodents had a pretty sizeable crop of marijuana plants
on their property, so you know, there were indications that
they were involved in some drug deals, in drug trade
with marijuana.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
We explored the rumors of small town revenge.
Speaker 12 (27:09):
There had been reports of scuffles with other people in public.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
In his message and he's talking about I'm going to
break his fucking legs and curb stop his ass.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
We also investigated a series of eerily similar killings.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
We have had a double homicide, four children left alive.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
This is very similar to the Rodent case.
Speaker 10 (27:29):
And we had heard that there were other people who
were shot Noel the night execution style in their homes.
And when you're looking at the Rodent case and then
you see these other cases in a county that small,
you start asking yourself.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
What the hell is going on.
Speaker 10 (27:43):
It doesn't make sense that this is happening there unless
there is some sort of common denominator.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
But in the end, it was some of the people
who were closest to the Rodents that were arrested for
orchestrating the brutal, cold blooded massacre.
Speaker 13 (27:55):
At the center of this case were members of the
Wagner family, whom we believe the event will show conspired
together to kill these eight.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
As we struggled to make sense of the crimes, we've
listened to the impassioned arguments of family members who insist
that their relatives are innocent.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Our family joke because there's no way that Betty Crocker
and the Dobe boys could ever go to an extreme
of murder.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Somebody did it, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Now we've heard first person accounts from relatives that support
the primary motive in this case.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
Hannah and Jake with the little girl. There was a
company battle and Hannah wasn't allowing Jake to see her,
and it just set him off to the point where
Jake he had made the comments you know that he
were going to kill her.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
But there are some who are simply torn.
Speaker 9 (28:54):
When the Wagoners were arrested, you had your fifty to fifty.
Speaker 7 (28:57):
You had people that said, yes, I knew that they
did and then you've got people that day.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
There's no way those people did that.
Speaker 14 (29:04):
I don't think anybody would believe that, you know, a
family could have put together such a tactical hit on
another family that they had created life with.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
It's still too difficult to accept and too hard to believe.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Many in the piked In area believe there is no
doubt that the Wagners plotted this horrific killing.
Speaker 10 (29:24):
Spray people wanted to paint the sort of few between
the Rodents and Wagners and something like the hatfields of McCoys.
Speaker 8 (29:33):
Doesn't make sense to me if they are innocent, because
who else would do that.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Whether the Wagners are innocent or guilty, doesn't change the
fact that the lives of eight members of a revered
local family, the Rodents, were taken on April twenty second,
twenty sixteen. Dana Roden, thirty seven year old mother, grandmother
and nurse living in her brand new home. Chris Rodin,
forty year old, loving father and grandfather. Dana and Chris's
(30:02):
oldest son, twenty year old Frankie Rodin. Frankie's fiance, twenty
year old Hannah Gilly, who was in bed with their
six month old baby, Frankie Roden's three year old son,
both of whom were spared. Hannahme Roden, nineteen year old
mother to two year old Sophia, and her five day
old newborn Kylie, also spared. Dana and Chris's youngest child,
(30:26):
sixteen year old Chris Junior, who had just gotten his
driver's license, Chris Senior's older brother, forty four year old
Kenneth Roden, father of three, and his cousin, thirty eight
year old Gary Roden, who was staying with Chris Senior
that night.
Speaker 9 (30:43):
It is horrible to this day in Dana and her
her family will never never get to celebrate birthdays, you know,
and have parties and get together some barbecues and stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's terrible.
Speaker 9 (31:02):
It just really hurts my heart.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
In all this, it's sometimes easy to forget those whose
lives were spared that faithful night, but who lost everything
in the process, the Rodent children.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
It's two families really have been destroyed. And at the
center of that tragedy is, you know, are these kids
whose families are torn apart and lost.
Speaker 15 (31:26):
Sophia is the one that is losing the most at
this point in her life because She's lost her mom's
side of the family, she's lost her father's side of
the family, and she is in child protective custody where
no one knows where she is.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
She has lost on both sides. She's lost both of
her families.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Because it's supposed to be happy for her, this is
her childhood.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
The tragic legacy of the Rodent murders continues to loom
over the town of Pyton, Ohio.
Speaker 10 (32:03):
You know, whatever happened that morning on Union Hill Road,
you know it impacted a lot more than just those
eight people who were killed. I mean, you've got their
family members, and you've got people in that area are
going to remember this forever.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
This has never gone away.
Speaker 7 (32:17):
My family was a part of this horrible, I mean
just absolutely awful act. You know that they destroyed this
other family completely. They have changed his family's life for
the rest of their life. So but then you know,
(32:38):
I'm like, well, you know ours has changed as well.
You know, we get tortured daily with the thought of
how our family could have done something like this, and
we still have love for them. I do feel so
terrible for the Romans, and I've always wanted to be
able to express how sorry, I am, And just because
(33:01):
we still love Angela and Jake doesn't mean that we
aren't sorry for what's take one, I guess.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
With trials for Billy, Angela, Jake, and George Wagner potentially
just months away, the residents of the Pikeson area sit
in anticipation, awaiting an end to the most gruesome chapter
in the town's history and a conclusion to Ohio's most
notorious murder case.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I've been in the system for over fifty years, and
that is extremely rare that you got for people, for
defendants facing the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
What will happen is anyone's guests if.
Speaker 10 (33:39):
They walk out of that courtroom without any convictions. I
just can't imagine how the rodents go on in the
public too. I mean, how do you go on not
knowing for sure exactly who did this?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Oh, it's going to be broken hearted, It's going to
be broken hearts. I honestly think that that's the Wagoners.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
It's going to a mistrial.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
It's a search for the truth and that old proverb
from Shakespeare the truth will out in the end. I
believe that as it applies to this case, the mystery
will be solved the truth will eventually and inevitably be discovered,
and it looks like that's the way they're heading. I,
(34:25):
like everybody else, want to know.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
I want to know how the story is.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Reach out to us on our social media outlets with questions.
We're on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at pikedon Massacre. We
look forward to answering our questions and upcoming episodes. Pipedon
Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker and me Courtney Armstrong.
Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional
(35:00):
producing by Jeff Shaine and Andrew Becker. The piked In
Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and KAT Studios. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to the Pikedon Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and
Katie's Studios, Episode eight, Truth Be Revealed. Over the course
of seven episodes, we have examined the details of the
murders of eight members of the Rodent family, the investigation
that was launched in their wake, and what led up
to the arrests of six members of the Wagner family.
(00:21):
Now we're going to look at where the case stands
and what lies ahead next week's episode, Burning Questions. I'm
Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with Stephanie
Leidecker and Jeff Shane. When we left off last week,
it was June twenty sixth, twenty nineteen, and Frederica Wagner
was in the defendant's chair in a Pike County courtroom.
(00:42):
She was facing charges of obstruction of justice and perjury
and connection with the Rodent murders. Here's Frederica's niece Deray
defending her aunt's claims.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
First, the prosecutors falsely believed the bulletproof best were purchased
before the road and homicides. Both sides know that it
is not true. They were in fact purchased on May
the seventh, twenty sixteen, fifteen days after the date of
the road homicides.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
So that's proven. We know that there's like receipts, right.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yep, got receipts. We have everything.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Second, she guessed and thought that she bought them from Amazon.
Now why they made a big deal about what what origin?
Speaker 4 (01:29):
They came off the internet? She ordered them off the internet.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Whenever you go on the Internet, a bunch of places
come up. Usually Amazon's the first thing that comes up.
She did that a lot, but they made a big
deal about it. So they went back through her books
and they found out that she did buy them, but
it wasn't from Amazon, it was eBay.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
But criminal defense attorney Mike Allen told Jeff that Frederica's
statements are a much bigger deal than deraythe.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Well, obviously, when you have a situation like this and
someone involved with the people that are charged makes a
purchase of two bulletproof vests, whether it's from eBay or Amazon,
it's something that the prosecution would be interested in. And
you know, she apparently was before the grand jury when
she misrepresented, if you will, where she bought these things from.
(02:25):
And it's relevant and also too. I think it would
be fair to say that the prosecution probably wanted this
put on of these charges put on her to have
a little bit of leverage with her too.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Do you think that her explanation of just saying, oh,
I don't remember, I got it confused as an attorney,
do you think that makes someone look more guilty?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yeah, it does, especially something like this. And I know
she's elderly, but she certainly seems like she's pretty sharp.
But it's a rather big event. In most people's lives,
if they purchase bulletproof vests online or any you purchased them,
you would think that you would remember where you purchased
them from. So yeah, it doesn't make her look good
(03:08):
at all.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Ultimately, Frederica Wagner's lawyer filed receipts that proved she made
the purchases fifteen days after the slayings. This led the
defense team to turn over potential evidence as required to
the prosecution, too late to meet the criteria for a
speedy trial. They dismissed the charges against Frederica Wagner, while
reserving the right to charge her again. Mike Allen broke
(03:34):
down what all this means.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
With respect to the Ohio Speedy Trial Statute. It's generally
you have to bring a felony case within two hundred
and seventy days from the indictment. I think the prosecution
was running out of time, so strategically, I think they
decided to dismiss it with the option and the right
to refile it again if that becomes necessary.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
So so you can get charged with the same crimes again.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Oh yeah, they were dismissed without prejudice, which means that
the state can refile them at a later date.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But it seems that Frederica Wagner doesn't foresee that happening. Here.
She is speaking to the press after the.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
Hearing, Trusting the Lord with all your heart, lean not
to your own understanding in all your ways, Acknowledge him
and he will direct your path. And as my attorney
will tell you, it was dismissed.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Because I was innocent.
Speaker 6 (04:26):
They had no evidence against me. I never lied about anything.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Frederica Wagner's freedom validates what Deray has believed all along.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
She has never in her life done anything wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
She's not capable of it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
And you know, if she thought that her kids would
have done something bad, she would have recommended.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
That they turn themselves in for anything.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I mean, she loves. She lives by what she says
she lives by, which is what well. She gives all
the glory to God.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Angela, Billy Jake, and George Wagner were charged with aggravated murder.
Angela Wagner's mother, Rita jo Nucom and Billy Wagner's mother,
Frederica were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury.
Newcomb was also charged with forgery. All six of them
pled not guilty, and our justice system presumes innocence until
guilt is proven. But one thing that doesn't help Frederica
(05:37):
Wagner's case is a revelation by the prosecution at a
pre trial hearing for her son Billy in twenty twenty,
the state submitted evidence showing that the night before Frederica
testified before the grand jury in twenty eighteen, she had
searched the Internet for information about penalties for perjury. Here's
our anonymous Wagner family relative. She shared her thoughts with Jeff.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Do you think that his mom, Billy's mom, Frederica, do
you think she had any involvement?
Speaker 7 (06:04):
I believe that. I believe she could have yeah, I
believe that she definitely, Uh, I don't believe she tried
to stop it, you know, I don't believe that she.
I believe that anything. She probably definely she would have
encouraged it and her storry to do.
Speaker 8 (06:20):
What he did.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Others like Rodent family friend Stephanne thinks that Frederica wasn't
just involved in the murders, but could possibly have orchestrated
the whole thing.
Speaker 9 (06:31):
I don't take her for a dumb woman at all.
She's a business woman. She's probably shrewd. She's the head
the monarch, you know, so the monarch is usually the
one that has their thumb on everybody. She wanted to
control over everything, seems to me.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Like to investigative journalist Jodi Barr, the alleged involvement of
Frederica Wagner up ends conventions of who actually could be
capable of being involved in murder.
Speaker 10 (07:01):
I think this case, if it ended today as it
is alleged, I don't think there is anybody on this
planet that can look at those people and say, those
people look like a family who could slaughter eight human beings.
If you ever thought you knew what a mass murderer
looked like, I think this case in Pike County is
showing you you have no idea.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
So here we are four years later. Two of the
six defendants are free and four others are in prison
facing death penalty charges, accused of killing eight members of
the Rodent family. Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 11 (07:39):
As it stands now, the trials for Billy, Angela, Jake,
and George Wagner are slated to begin in the next
few months. Now I really understand this case and where
it stands and what's to come, we'll have to examine
some of the most important points. In the five thousand
pages of discovery documents that list the prosecution's evidence, there
are more than three hundred and thirty two thousand files
(07:59):
of evidence in this case.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
One of the exhibits in the prosecution's arsenal is related
to Billy Wagner in his copy of the nineteen ninety
nine movie The Boondock Saints. The film is about two
brothers in Boston who exacted a form of vigilanty justice
by murdering mobsters and other criminals. It's extremely violent and
over the top, but the big takeaway for this case
is that the brothers in the film use silencers on
(08:21):
their guns, a method that members of the Wagner family
are accused of using to execute the Rodents. As we
covered in the last episode, a homemade silencer was discovered
at a farm once owned by Jake and George Wagner,
but Deray thinks the connection is tenuous at best.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I read that and I had to laugh. I had
to laugh so hard. Okay, so you have to remember
that this was a very organized, brilliantly done execution. This
(08:58):
is something that you wouldn't learn.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
On a DVD.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Somebody with military background, Navy seals. I mean, whoever did
it was brilliant.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
They're professional.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
These people are not professional killers.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Mike Allen told Jeff that the DVD could be a
building block in the state's case.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
You can't watch a movie and learn how to wipe
out an entire family. That seems like a stretch. What
is your take on that.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Yeah, I don't think they could introduce it for the
proposition that that's how the Wagners learned how to do that.
I think if the state introduced it or attempted to
get it introduced, it would just be kind of peripheral
to like Hey, you know somebody in that family watched
that movie or ordered that movie or bought that movie,
(09:53):
and it's a movie about vigil anti justice. But I
would certainly try at least because apparently in this case,
the allegation is silencers were used, and they were used
in that movie as well, So it would be one
piece of evidence that they could add on to other evidence.
It would be a piece of evidence if admitted, that
(10:14):
they could talk about in closing arguments. So, while not
determinative in any way, shape or form, it is evidence
that could be helpful to the state.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
There's a mountain of other evidence. The prosecution plans on
using one that stands out as an Excel spreadsheet that
contains five hundred and nineteen entries of messages about child custody.
I spoke with my Gallon about it. Another piece of
evidence that's been talked about are these Excel spreadsheets. Apparently
they had hundreds of entries of cataloging the messages about
(10:48):
child custody and Facebook screenshots. Regarding it, what does that tell.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
You, Well, it tells me that could be part of
the motive in this case, and it's pretty strong evidence
motive if they're keeping all these things in screenshots, and
it seems that they were kind of obsessed with his
desire to get custody and control. That would be circumstantial,
but in circumstantial evidence sometimes can be very strong evidence.
(11:16):
Just because evidence is circumstantial doesn't mean that it's not
good evidence and strong evidence. But you know, it's like
you're dropping, you know, pebbles into a pond. Every little
pebble makes a ripple, and you know, you build on
those things, and at the end of the day, if
the prosecution does it right, every little bit helps with
(11:36):
respect to building a case.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
The discovery documents also include information about a person that
some speculator could be an informant Jody Barr told us
about trying to track down this source. The name of
the informant has not been published, which is why it's
bleeped in his interview.
Speaker 10 (11:55):
Only thing I know is that was a name given
very early on who I was told did business with
Chris Rodin. I was never able to even find that
this person exists.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I guess they did. This person really does exist. But
when I was given a list of names.
Speaker 10 (12:12):
Of people who could have potentially either been involved in
this knew about this This is one person I tried
to track down and find over in Sciota County, which
is just across the line from Pike, and I was
never able to find this person.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
But I was told that this person knew Chris Senior.
Speaker 10 (12:30):
It's me as far as you know, they were together
a lot, and they were in some business ventures together.
But again I was never able to find this person
or to verify anything that was ever told me about them.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Prosecutors for the case claim another confidential informant told them
of a specific meeting at Frederica Wagner's home. It occurred
with the other accused family members and allegedly included talk
of quote taking revenge on a special agent then Attorney
General Mike DeWine and Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader. The
(13:09):
revengel was allegedly planned if her family was arrested. Jody
Barr dissected these claims with Jeff.
Speaker 10 (13:16):
It just seems so careless that the people accused of
this would be bringing outsiders into a home, although we
don't know who the confidential informant is, but that they
would risk getting caught if they were so skillful in
pulling this off that they would bring outsiders in to
have discussions like this where they're number one admitting it essentially,
(13:37):
But secondly, you're talking about taking hits out on the
chief law enforcer in Pike County and the chief law
enforcement for the state of Ohio.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
But that's an interesting point that it doesn't really compute
that if they were like Ninja's and they could do
this elaborate crime, why would they be so sloppy then
to have these conversations with other people.
Speaker 10 (13:54):
When I see confidential informant in this sentence, man, a
part of me goes, I wonder if one of the
Wagners has rolled over and is helping this investigations still
something I know there have been some plea deals already
made here, some charges dismissed.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
But you've got to wonder who.
Speaker 10 (14:16):
Is this informant, because if it's a member of the
Wagner family, and I think that's a twist no one
saw coming.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Let's stop here for a quick commercial break. We'll be
back in a moment. The discovery documents also have twenty
nine and eighteen pages related to DNA evidence. Mike Allen
(14:48):
spoke to us about the role of DNA could play
in the case.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
I can tell you from dealing with DNA evidence, both
as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney, that's not
good news for the defense. If they've got almost three
thousand pages of DNA evidence, evidence that would have been
sent to the lab and comes back, they've got to
have something. I mean, I would be shocked if they
(15:11):
didn't have some credible DNA evidence against at least one
of these defendants, probably more of them. That's bad news
for the defense. There's just no way of getting around it.
Because DNA evidence, if extracted properly and analyzed properly, it's
pretty much lights out if they did it correctly. So
(15:34):
I think that's problematic for the defense.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 11 (15:41):
In addition, the report also lists and seventy crime scene photos,
cyber forensic reports of the Wagners, their cell phones and
their computers, and hundreds of pages citing reference to the
recovery of firearms and ballistic testing. In fact, at the
pre trial hearing for George Wagner just a few weeks ago,
we got a glimpse into some of the evidence they have.
(16:03):
So this hearing was for emotion. The defense was making
to get George Wagner, the eldest son, released from prison
on bond. In response, the prosecution laid out some of
the evidence they have against George Wagner, basically as an
argument to keep George behind bars. One of the lead
detectives on the case testified that he and his team
have real ballistic evidence connecting firearms used in the homicides
(16:26):
with guns believed to be owned by the Wagners, including
a twenty two caliber long rifle, a forty caliber handgun,
and a thirty caliber gun. Prosecutors also pointed to evidence
that shoe prints from the exact same shoes purchased at
Walmart by the Wagners to allegedly frame Dana Rodin's brother,
you remember, James Manly, were found in dried blood at
(16:49):
two of the crime scenes. And get this, In fact,
receipts for those exact same shoes, they're a very specific
Walmart athletic shoe were found during a search of Wagner
property in twenty sixteen. There are also over eight thousand
recorded statements from interviews with George Wagner, who claimed there
really was no issue regarding custody between Jake Wagner and
(17:12):
Hannah Rodin over their daughter Sophia, and that we know
is just not true.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Right. So with all of this, the Wagners still continued
to declare their innocence. Is it really possible that they did,
in fact have nothing to do with it? Well, recently
one of the Wagner's lawyers made statements to the press
saying that a loose custody arrangement between Jake Wagner and
Hannah fur their daughter Sophia, was being formalized by another
attorney in Ohio at the time of the killings, but
due to the fact that Hannah was murdered, the agreement
(17:39):
was never formalized, so it's not permissible in court. I
spoke with Deray about her second cousin, Jake Wagner, to
see if we could get any more information on the
custody arrangement between him and Hannah Rodin. Do you know
anything about like they were trying to get custody of
Sophia before the murders.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I don't know anything about that.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Okay, Yeah, I was just curious, Yeah, because you hear
a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, I never heard, you know, I talked to my
antalot that was never mentioned.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
So do you think that that is fabricated as well?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
If I'm hearing you right, I don't believe that it
has anything.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
To do with it.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I don't believe there was a custody battle. I think
that's another made up lie.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
What makes you say that because.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I never heard anything about it. I mean, somebody did it,
but we don't know who, and we're for sure it
wasn't the Wagner family.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
It's a tragedy, and most.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Of the people that I talked to, they're all thinking
it's drug related, something that had to do with drug trafficking.
We don't know. It's who knows.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
It's a mystery.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
We found it strange for a woman who covers her
family's case closely not to know anything about the custody
issues that other family relatives disclosed to us before.
Speaker 11 (19:00):
Even stranger is something else that was presented at George
Wagner's most recent pre trial hearing. Again he's the eldest son.
Prosecutors pointed to a screenshot of a message from Hannah
Rodin to one of her friends. In this message, she's
discussing the Wagner's attempt to force her to sign forged
custody documents. The ones that we've talked about in previous episodes.
(19:21):
Now get this. The screenshot was found on the Wagner
family computer seized during the investigation, and again allegedly the
Wagner's got it by hacking into Hannah Rodin's Facebook account.
The message is nothing short of chilling. It reads and
I quote, I won't sign papers. Ever, it won't happen.
(19:42):
They'll have to kill me first end quote.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
It does seem clear that the Wagners were sort of
obsessed with custody and control of Sophia, and in speaking
with people close to the family, this actually wasn't the
first time custody became an issue. Christina Howard's sister, Tabby,
was married to George Wagner for several years. The two
had a son together, but eventually split up.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
According to Christina, following their divorce, the Wagner family tried
to force Tabby into handing over custody of their son.
This is Christina's recollection of events. She spoke to Jeff
about it.
Speaker 8 (20:19):
Somehow or another angela like manipulated her with different papers
to sign and stuff, and they had Tabby finding over
the rights and custody to George. You know, they had
money for expensive lawyer. Tabby didn't, and so they had
(20:40):
custody plumb up until you know, they got caught and
stuff for the crimes.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Do you think that she was obsessed with having custody
of all of her grandkids?
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (20:51):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Why do you say that?
Speaker 8 (20:54):
Tabby Like whenever she would try to reach out to George, like, hey,
can I come visit my son, and Angela would get
on there and be like, oh, he's not your son anymore.
Would tell Tabby like, oh, you might have gave birth
to him, but I'm his real mother because I take
care of him, and all these just nasty things.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And Christina told us that in the aftermath of Tabby
and George's custody battle, Hannah rode In contacted Tabby for
advice and how to deal with their own custody issues
with the Wagoners.
Speaker 8 (21:29):
I knew that Hannah was struggling to keep custody of
Sophia because she went to her and my sister were
pretty close, and you know, Tabby straight up told her
like a if they present me with papers, do not
sign them. Give them to a lawyer first.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Let the lawyer read it.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
Over and proceed from there, because they will try to
steal custody of Sophia, even if they're trying to act
like they're understated, and all of the swords. Do not
listen to them because they will scree you over.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Christina's account of George Wagner and Tabby's dispute, in addition
to everything we've heard about Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin,
clearly lays out a pattern of deceit and control when
it comes to custody. But when Jeff asked Deray about
George and Tabby's custody battle, she soundly refuted Christina's claims.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I want your side of this. People say that, like
George had a custody situation where he tried to get
custody of his son Jake, maybe a similar situation. People
are saying that, like Angela was just obsessed with getting
the kids and wanted all the control of the children.
Speaker 8 (22:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I don't believe that. I don't believe that.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I know she loved him, but I don't believe.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
She was obsessed.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I think she was a normal grandmother and then she
was an excellent role model.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
While we don't know all the details of George Wagner
and Tabby's custody case. There is evidence that the Wagners
did deceive Hannah Rodin by trying to convince her to
sign fake custody documents. Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 11 (23:13):
It seems being locked up in prison hasn't even stopped
the Wagners for one second from trying to manipulate those
closest to them. As we discussed earlier in September of
twenty nineteen, Angela Wagner tried to discuss case strategy even
influenced testimony from prison. Prosecutors also claim that Angela Wagner
called her mother Rita Neukom she's the one that's accused
(23:35):
of forging those custody documents. She called her several times
and basically asked her not to testify against the family,
and also told her how to explain away the custody
documents that she's accused of forging.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
As a punishment, a judge suspended Angela Wagner's in jail
phone and mail privileges. Mike Allen told us that this
is just another blow for the defense.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Any criminal defense attorney that is doing their job, and
I'm sure every one of these criminal defense attorneys are
doing their job. They tell their client from day one,
do not, under any circumstances discuss the case on the phone,
because you can guarantee that the conversations are being taked.
(24:19):
Prosecutors can use those conversations if the person is talking
about strategy, makes some kind of admission, intimidates witnesses, the
recording doesn't lie, and that could end up to be
some pretty strong evidence against her at the end of
the day.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
George Wagner has also raised eyebrows for an odd request
he made after five months in prison. He has to
be transferred from general population to solitary confinement. Usually, solitary
confinement is given to a prisoner who either is a
threat to other prisoners or who may be in danger
in the general population. My gallon told is that George
a different reason.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
His stated reason was that you wanted to be able
to study the Bible in peace. That's a little unusual
when inmates ask for solitary a lot of times, although
they may not say it, they're asking for that because
they've been threatened, and you know, they want to make
sure that they're as safe as they can be in jail.
(25:22):
But when I read that, I kind of wondered, is
that the real reason? I mean, you know, you just
have to wonder what the motivation is.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
So how does all this evidence add up? How strong
is the state's case against Billy, Angela Jake and George Wagner.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Now I'm a criminal defense attorney. I used to be
a prosecutor, and as a criminal defense attorney, you know,
you never say never as far as you know your
chances in front of a jury. Having said that, the
evidence sure seems strong, and we don't know all the evidence.
All we know is what's public. So the old adage
(25:58):
that a prosecutor could die ham Sandwich is true. But
smart prosecutors don't indict cases that they don't think they
can win beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think Mike Dwine,
who was in the driver's seat in this thing, there's
no way he would have indicted this if he didn't
think he could prove it, or ultimately someone could prove it.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
At the end of the day, let's stop here for
a quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment.
We've been covering this case for over two years, and
(26:41):
in that time we've examined, not only the details of
the eight murders themselves, but the multiple theories that have
surrounded them. We looked into the speculation of a drug connection.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Discoveries the murder scenes are now advancing the theory the
killings could be related to a drug cartel.
Speaker 12 (26:56):
The Rodents had a pretty sizeable crop of marijuana plants
on their property, so you know, there were indications that
they were involved in some drug deals, in drug trade
with marijuana.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
We explored the rumors of small town revenge.
Speaker 12 (27:09):
There had been reports of scuffles with other people in public.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
In his message and he's talking about I'm going to
break his fucking legs and curb stop his ass.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
We also investigated a series of eerily similar killings.
Speaker 10 (27:23):
We have had a double homicide, four children left alive.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
This is very similar to the Rodent case.
Speaker 10 (27:29):
And we had heard that there were other people who
were shot Noel the night execution style in their homes.
And when you're looking at the Rodent case and then
you see these other cases in a county that small,
you start asking yourself.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
What the hell is going on.
Speaker 10 (27:43):
It doesn't make sense that this is happening there unless
there is some sort of common denominator.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
But in the end, it was some of the people
who were closest to the Rodents that were arrested for
orchestrating the brutal, cold blooded massacre.
Speaker 13 (27:55):
At the center of this case were members of the
Wagner family, whom we believe the event will show conspired
together to kill these eight.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
As we struggled to make sense of the crimes, we've
listened to the impassioned arguments of family members who insist
that their relatives are innocent.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Our family joke because there's no way that Betty Crocker
and the Dobe boys could ever go to an extreme
of murder.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Somebody did it, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Now we've heard first person accounts from relatives that support
the primary motive in this case.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
Hannah and Jake with the little girl. There was a
company battle and Hannah wasn't allowing Jake to see her,
and it just set him off to the point where
Jake he had made the comments you know that he
were going to kill her.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
But there are some who are simply torn.
Speaker 9 (28:54):
When the Wagoners were arrested, you had your fifty to fifty.
Speaker 7 (28:57):
You had people that said, yes, I knew that they
did and then you've got people that day.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
There's no way those people did that.
Speaker 14 (29:04):
I don't think anybody would believe that, you know, a
family could have put together such a tactical hit on
another family that they had created life with.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
It's still too difficult to accept and too hard to believe.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Many in the piked In area believe there is no
doubt that the Wagners plotted this horrific killing.
Speaker 10 (29:24):
Spray people wanted to paint the sort of few between
the Rodents and Wagners and something like the hatfields of McCoys.
Speaker 8 (29:33):
Doesn't make sense to me if they are innocent, because
who else would do that.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Whether the Wagners are innocent or guilty, doesn't change the
fact that the lives of eight members of a revered
local family, the Rodents, were taken on April twenty second,
twenty sixteen. Dana Roden, thirty seven year old mother, grandmother
and nurse living in her brand new home. Chris Rodin,
forty year old, loving father and grandfather. Dana and Chris's
(30:02):
oldest son, twenty year old Frankie Rodin. Frankie's fiance, twenty
year old Hannah Gilly, who was in bed with their
six month old baby, Frankie Roden's three year old son,
both of whom were spared. Hannahme Roden, nineteen year old
mother to two year old Sophia, and her five day
old newborn Kylie, also spared. Dana and Chris's youngest child,
(30:26):
sixteen year old Chris Junior, who had just gotten his
driver's license, Chris Senior's older brother, forty four year old
Kenneth Roden, father of three, and his cousin, thirty eight
year old Gary Roden, who was staying with Chris Senior
that night.
Speaker 9 (30:43):
It is horrible to this day in Dana and her
her family will never never get to celebrate birthdays, you know,
and have parties and get together some barbecues and stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's terrible.
Speaker 9 (31:02):
It just really hurts my heart.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
In all this, it's sometimes easy to forget those whose
lives were spared that faithful night, but who lost everything
in the process, the Rodent children.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
It's two families really have been destroyed. And at the
center of that tragedy is, you know, are these kids
whose families are torn apart and lost.
Speaker 15 (31:26):
Sophia is the one that is losing the most at
this point in her life because She's lost her mom's
side of the family, she's lost her father's side of
the family, and she is in child protective custody where
no one knows where she is.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
She has lost on both sides. She's lost both of
her families.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Because it's supposed to be happy for her, this is
her childhood.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
The tragic legacy of the Rodent murders continues to loom
over the town of Pyton, Ohio.
Speaker 10 (32:03):
You know, whatever happened that morning on Union Hill Road,
you know it impacted a lot more than just those
eight people who were killed. I mean, you've got their
family members, and you've got people in that area are
going to remember this forever.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
This has never gone away.
Speaker 7 (32:17):
My family was a part of this horrible, I mean
just absolutely awful act. You know that they destroyed this
other family completely. They have changed his family's life for
the rest of their life. So but then you know,
(32:38):
I'm like, well, you know ours has changed as well.
You know, we get tortured daily with the thought of
how our family could have done something like this, and
we still have love for them. I do feel so
terrible for the Romans, and I've always wanted to be
able to express how sorry, I am, And just because
(33:01):
we still love Angela and Jake doesn't mean that we
aren't sorry for what's take one, I guess.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
With trials for Billy, Angela, Jake, and George Wagner potentially
just months away, the residents of the Pikeson area sit
in anticipation, awaiting an end to the most gruesome chapter
in the town's history and a conclusion to Ohio's most
notorious murder case.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I've been in the system for over fifty years, and
that is extremely rare that you got for people, for
defendants facing the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
What will happen is anyone's guests if.
Speaker 10 (33:39):
They walk out of that courtroom without any convictions. I
just can't imagine how the rodents go on in the
public too. I mean, how do you go on not
knowing for sure exactly who did this?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Oh, it's going to be broken hearted, It's going to
be broken hearts. I honestly think that that's the Wagoners.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
It's going to a mistrial.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
It's a search for the truth and that old proverb
from Shakespeare the truth will out in the end. I
believe that as it applies to this case, the mystery
will be solved the truth will eventually and inevitably be discovered,
and it looks like that's the way they're heading. I,
(34:25):
like everybody else, want to know.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
I want to know how the story is.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Reach out to us on our social media outlets with questions.
We're on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at pikedon Massacre. We
look forward to answering our questions and upcoming episodes. Pipedon
Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker and me Courtney Armstrong.
Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional
(35:00):
producing by Jeff Shaine and Andrew Becker. The piked In
Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and KAT Studios. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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