April 1, 2024 • 25 mins
In this episode, Karol interviews Kate Trinko, Editor-in-Chief of The Daily Signal, about the dating crisis and the need to change our dating culture. They discuss the importance of being picky in choosing a partner and the role of married people in setting up singles. They also explore the different dating apps and the challenges they present. The conversation then shifts to a discussion of Abigail Shrier's book on mental health and the importance of standing up for kids. They touch on the concept of lazy parenting and the societal problem of the loss of hope and meaning. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
I'm back home after nearly three weeks on the road.
I landed like two am Thursday morning, back from ten
days at Hillsdale and a week in Israel before that.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I was home for one day in between, and my
family also came to visit me at Hillsdale for a weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I had really missed everyone a lot. Obviously. My kids
are fourteen, eleven, and eight, so in a lot of
ways they're self sufficient, but they still need me in
so many other ways, and I love being needed. Obviously,
my husband has been exceedingly understanding about what I've needed
to do in the last year plus really since my
(00:52):
book came out last March, and.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It was very nice to be back with him.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
He's just my favorite.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
But this isn't a month about how much I love
my family, though I do, or how much I missed them,
which I did. On Friday, I ran errands around my
community and I just drove around with a huge smile
on my face. I was so so happy to be
home in Florida. Mean, look, I loved New York when
(01:20):
I lived there.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I did.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It was home in every way I grew up in Brooklyn,
it was.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Really home base.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And even now when I was in Michigan, I'd say
to my husband, you know when I get back home
to New York, and he'd say, we don't live there anymore.
Or I saw that New York had flooding at the
airports the weekend that my family was coming to visit me,
and I said to my husband.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Will your flights get out okay? And he was like, Uh, yeah,
they'll get out fine. From Florida. New York is a
hard habit to break, really, but being in Florida isn't
all around just relaxer. Yes, the sunshine, the weather, the
happy people, all of it really helps, but it's really
(02:03):
still even two years in that I'm so grateful that
we get to have a normal life here. I feel
like a genius every single day in so many different ways.
Like we left because of COVID, but there's so much
that's going on now that I'm just so happy to
not be in New York for We talk a lot
about moving on this show because the last four years
(02:26):
have been this great migration in this country, as so
many people move from blue states to red ones. Our
move to Florida remains one of the absolute best things
I've ever done. I'm still so grateful to be here,
so blessed that it was an option, and I don't
take for granted, not even for one second, how lucky
we are to be in the free state of Florida.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I loved New York.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
But did it ever give me a sense of peace
and calm and security from the outside world.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
No. It gave me a lot, but not that. And
I know there are people listening who would say, yes,
New York makes me feel safe in a crazy world.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
And that's fine, that's good.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
But if you live somewhere that does not give you
a sense of calm, that does not give you the
security that you know you should feel at home, think
about leaving. It's hard, but I can't tell you how
good it feels to be free. Coming up next and
interview with Katrina Trinko. Join us after the break. Welcome
(03:27):
back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest
today is Kate Trinko, editor in chief of The Daily Signal.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Hi, Kate, Hey, Carol, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
It's so nice to see you. So I reached out
to you for this podcast. I think you're a fantastic writer.
I've been reading you for years, but I reached out
specifically because you had this piece in February called Dating
Crisis Fuels Marriage Crisis. And on this show we talk
a lot about marriage, we talk a lot about dating,
(03:59):
and you wrote some really interesting things in that piece
that I think resonated with a lot of people. I'm
going to read just one thing you wrote. As an
unmarried woman in my thirties, I also realized there's no
quick fix to the situation, which is people not getting married,
and that married Americans are often unaware of how bleak
the current dating landscape can be. Ultimately, if we're going
(04:22):
to have more healthy marriages, we need to change our
dating culture.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
What do we need to change?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I want to get on it.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Well, where do I start? No, I think some of
it first. Well, let me be clear, sometimes singles are
a little too picky. I myself have been too picky, and.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I don't think there's anything wrong with being too picky.
I don't know this is key about what, but this
is one of my things, right, And I think, like,
if you're going to partner with somebody for the rest
of your life.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I'm picky is good.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I don't know the being too picky is never one
of my things that I think single people are doing wrong,
you know. I I think that being picky and being
choosy and really you know, not.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Settling is good. So be picky, do it?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
You know? Well, let me give an example of what
I mean by my pickyness. I'm five nine. One time
a guy who was five seven asked me out, who
was local. We agreed on a lot of, you know,
serious things. I wouldn't even go out on one day
with him. That's the sort of thing should I have explored.
Could there be chemistry and one day? That's That's what
I mean. I generally agree with you, though certainly no
(05:31):
one should go to the altar say I'm going to
be with you forever and be like, but I hate
this this and this about you?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Are settled for you? Like, that's not not where you
want to be.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yeah, absolutely not. In terms of fixing the culture, I think,
you know, I talked a lot not to put the
pressure on married folks like you, But you know, if
married people and I know you've talked about this on
your podcast, could set people up, have friends over, try
to just stimulate meetings. I think that's one thing that
always helps. I know a lot of my married friends,
(06:00):
they have kids, they're busy, But even if it's something
you do once a year, I think it's a great
thing to do. Especially you know, often wives no women friends.
Husbands have male friends. You know, let's get them in
a room together, right. I also think encouraging people to
be good on dating apps. That might sound a little weird,
but I think one of the things on dating apps
(06:22):
that's a real big problem is you're constantly going out
with people that you don't share any friends in common with. Well,
there's not you're not really worried about accountability. In the
same way, I think there's definitely folks on the apps
who treat people they meet on the apps in a
way they wouldn't treat friends in real life if there
were consequences socially. So I think having a bit more
empathy saying, oh, if I wouldn't ghost a friend, I'm
(06:43):
not going to ghost a date. That doesn't mean you
have to tell someone you've been out with twice when
they ask you out again, Like twenty reasons you don't
ever want to see them again, but no, thank you,
So that would be a good start.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Well, are there differences between the dating apps? Are theyre
good ones or bad ones? Or are they all kind
of not that great? You know?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
That is it depends on what you're looking for. I
would say in generally.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Like the commercials for like e harmony really get me.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Like I feel like, if I were.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Single, e harmony seems like, you know, people are already
get married, and you know, I think that that's sort
of the.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
The better path.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I've Also, you know, there's the I think it's called
rite dating, like there's for conservatives. And then a guy
who responds to a lot of my stuff on Twitter
never married dating, you know, website, website or app or
are there you know, are there better apps out there
or not?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I there's no one that I would say is like
it'll work for sure?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Oh yes, right, yes, yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I also a lot of it is luck. It's it's
you know, I I think a lot of married people
pretend that they were like skillful in their quest to
get married and that's why it worked out for them.
And I think the luck component is overlooked and if
single people knew that we that I understand that I
(08:13):
got lucky and our timing was right and all the
different things that have to kind of work out. It's
not skill. It really is a lot of it is
luck based, so.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Great and I think so in my let's see, in
my dating life, I have been on Tinder, bumble E Harmony,
which did not work out for me, like the commercial show,
and then being Catholic. I've also been on a site
called Catholic Match. So my current boyfriend I met on
Catholic Match. But I also he's my first relationship from
that site and I've been on and off of it
(08:46):
for fourteen fifteen years. So I think being who you
are on the apps is really important. I really encourage
people it's better to get fewer matches and be who
you are. You know, I'm always like, hey, I'm conservative.
Does that make you popular on DCPA? No, But someone
has a problem with that. We were never going to
work exactly. I think a lot of it is what
(09:08):
you make of it on a particular app, So your.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Beat is not necessarily dating. What else do you write about?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Oh gosh, I write about all kinds of things. One
of the things that I love about the daily signals
we can write about different cultural issues. So you know,
the past few months, I read a book on polyamory,
wrote about that, wrote Abigail Shreyer's great new book, so.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Good, my favorite thing right now.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I'm telling everybody about it, Bad Therapy, Abigail Sreyer, amazing
must read.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
What did you think of it?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I thought it was fantastic, And you know, there's so
many things in it that I thought, you know, I'm
in this world, right We're in this like politically conservative world.
We think we're going to going to like stand up
for our kids in every situation, and we're going to
fight back on all these things. But even Abigail says
she opens the book with an anecdote about her son
(10:01):
having a stomach ache and they go to the doctor
and the doctor asks her to leave the room so
she could ask the son some questions about whether he's
suicidal he has a stomach ache, And Abigail says herself,
says that she stood up like to leave, and then
she was like, wait a minute, I don't leave the room.
And things like that made me think like I also
(10:23):
maybe would for a second there be like, oh okay,
I'll leave the room. And then I'm not leaving the
room my kids, you know, eleven years old and has
a stomach ache or I think maybe twelve.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
It just kind.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Of the idea of standing up for your kids and
protecting them from bad ideas is just such a big
one throughout the book, and I loved it. Thought it
was so well written and very well done.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (10:51):
I completely agree. I thought that anecdote was really powerful
and it struck me. I think, you know, when you
and I were growing up, Carol, I don't remember a
doctor ever asking my mom or dad to leave and
like questioning me about my mental health. I don't remember.
She Abigail Schreyer also had an anecdote in the book
about a fifth grade classroom where like the teacher asked
(11:11):
them all to share one thing they were feeling really
bad about, and the kids, Yeah, when kids started saying,
he doesn't like I think his dad's new girlfriend. Another
kids started talking about her parents' divorce. Third kid had
something else, and then suddenly half of these fifth graders
are crying. And I thought this was really interesting. I'm
a big proponent of therapy of medication if necessary, I
(11:35):
haven't given as much thought frankly to you know, childhood
therapy and medication in those things. And I think what
she did was first and foremost, as you said, with
the doctor anecdote showed hey, this stuff may be happening
to your kids without them ever entering a therapist's office.
And now that was amazing. And then I think secondly
she raised a lot of interesting questions about when is
(11:58):
therapy appropriate parents part of their kids therapy. You know,
what do you lose if you put a kid on medication?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
And I thought, oh, you know, it's it's good to
see a skeptical examination.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, there was another example in there where you know,
the teacher calls her and says that her daughter, uh
watches the clock, you know, at the end of the day,
and therefore she has I think, I forget.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
If it was add or Adhd.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And Abigail's like or she's very organized and she's taking
the bus for the first time without her without her brothers,
and maybe she's just watching the clock to make sure
she doesn't miss the bus, and like, why.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Fix that?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Even if let's say that is some kind of sign
of something. So what So we're all a little different,
and we all have kind of our own problems, and
I'm pretty scattered. I wish I was a little more
organized and watching the clock, I you know, why medicate
for that?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And just I loved it.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I thought it was fantastic and and really made me
think about the way we treat kids like adults. And
whereas an adult can tell a therapist like that they're
on the wrong track, a kid really can't do that right.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And that's that is she talked about it. I think
being a power and balance and that that really resonated
with me. And I also think, you know, I have
a friend who is a child therapist, and I think
there's a big difference between kids who don't have parents,
whether they're in foster care or sometimes other difficult circumstances
sort of being raised by you know, a smart sort
(13:31):
of extended family. That's very different than a kid who
has you know, a good parent or two good parents
at home. And I need to recognize when intervention is
appropriate and when they've got parents who know that looking
at the clock is right their personality.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, what would you be doing if you weren't a writer?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Uh? Well, twist, I would still be a writer. I
would love to be a novelist.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
One.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Do you think you have a novelist?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
I do, But the problem is to say, thirty six,
I'm still a little thirteen at heart, and I'm like, oh,
is this I don't know. Do you want to put
this level of emotion out in the world. I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yes, put it out there in the world. See what happens.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Absolutely, I think if you've got a book in new
that you need to write.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Like, write it.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I don't think that I think should be stopping you.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
All right, I love it. I go home and write it. Now.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Do you feel like you've made it?
Speaker 4 (14:28):
So? You know, it's funny you mentioned this question in
the email about the podcast and you have put me
on like a deep dive about my life. Was like
New Year's all over?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
You want to do?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You know? So we all love the Carol Marko which
show put you on a deep dive about your life.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
No, but I feel like it was a great question
and it made me think in the one sense, yeah,
I do think I've made it because I get to
do stuff like, you know, write articles about you know,
Schreyer's new book about dating that you know, there's a
concept called the flow that I don't know who to
give it credit for. But it's when you don't really
even notice, you don't notice what you're doing. You're just
(15:10):
doing it and you're so absorbed by it. And that's
something I get when I write. So I'm very grateful
that I get paid to do something that gives me
that sense of contentment and really that out of my
head sense. But I would say, you know, I try
to be someone, not always successfully, who's open to growth,
and I think I was very rigid, especially in my
(15:30):
early twenties when we actually first met, and I was like, Oh,
you want to be on Fox News, you want to
write a best selling book, you want to do this,
you want to do that. And as I'm a lot older,
I'm like, but what brings you joy? Right, Yeah, that's
really rewarding.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
So you write about cultural a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Do you have something that you think is like our
biggest cultural or societal problem?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I would say.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Maybe the loss of hope and meaning I'm really struck
a lot, and I haven't written too much about these
issues because I'm trying to think of what I have
to add to the conversation. But you know, when we
see the deaths of despair increasing, when we see drug
addiction going up, when we see people who are homeless,
and you know, often that's a mixture of Sometimes, of
(16:17):
course it's economic, but often is we know it's a
mixture of mental health and drug addiction issues. And even
to a certain extent, when I see how much time
people spend on their phones and I mean, I'm guilty.
I don't like the weekly report from my iPhone it
would be. But it's like there's a sense of, yeah,
(16:37):
do we have meaning? Do we have hope? Are we
just trying to distract ourselves? Or are we living fulfilling lives?
And I feel like a lot of our problems have
a more spiritual route where people are just genuinely not
hopeful and fulfilled.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Are you hopeful we could solve that or is it solvable?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Give us the big answers here.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Kakes well as a politics writer. The tricky thing is,
I'm not sure that politics can solve that. I'm not
sure that that, you know, President Biden can in the
State of the Union announce some policy. I think there's
stuff on the policy level we can do to nudge
people towards certain things, But ultimately, I think, you know,
this is where maybe church's synagogues have a bigger role
(17:22):
to play. Something actually that I keep meeting to write on,
but that I was really struck about when I went
to Israel last year was how Israel has the highest
birth rate in the Western world, right, And you know,
I talked to people there and like, what's going on
with that? Why is that? And they were like, because
you know, we believe life is so important, and you know,
(17:45):
we think as a Jewish people, we've been through so much,
it's so important to celebrate life and celebrate children. And
I was like, where is this in the rest of
the West. Instead, we have people you know, my age,
and you know, like, oh, can I have children. I
don't know about climate change, I don't know that a
kindle being a mother, there's so much fear. Yeah, and
(18:07):
so yeah, my hope is we can get some more
of that Israeli attitude and just in general, get in
touch more spirituality with God and feel empowered to have
kids right in life, to not spend your life distracted.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
It's interesting because I used to think that Israel's high
birth rate was partially related to the fact, or maybe
more than partially, but they have a very kid centric
kind of society, Like you don't tuck the kids away
somewhere else, like the kids.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, kids are.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Noisy, they're you know, loud, they're in your face, and
they're they're here, and that we're not We're not hiding
them away. But I've been to European countries. I think
Spain is very kid focused like that, but they have
a very low birth rate, and it's like that doesn't
really explain it.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
So there's no right way or wrong way.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Kind of to be about kids and to have that outcome.
I'm curious why Israel has that and they have it
across I don't know. I'm pretty sure about this, but
across the religious groups. It's not just Jews, it's not
just Muslims. Also, the Christians and Israel have more kids,
and there has to be something that they're doing societally.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
But I just I can't.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Every time I think I've got it, I find like
an exception to that. So I'm not so sure.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Well, I will say you are right about Spain. And
my sister actually is married to a Stanyard and lives
in the Madrid area with her little girl, and everywhere
they go for a little girl who's about eleven months
old now like center of attention everyone. But my sister
doesn't really know that many other parents her age she's thirty,
who have kids, right, So it's interesting where they cherish them,
(19:55):
it seems, but for whatever reason, it's not that popular
to have them.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yes, and they have if they do have them, they
have like one. There was also this great study of
great great is not the right word, but how when
Spain gave a larger paternity leave to dads, like they
gave them a really generous paternity leave, they could take,
you know, a long time off. Their birth rate went down.
(20:19):
It was like the dad saw how hard it was
to have kids, and they were like, just just one's fine,
you know. So you know, policies don't always work out
the way. Maybe we think that they will.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Right And I think I wonder to your point on Israel.
This is me just thinking out loud, fact free because
I have not studied yet, But yes, it is true
across religious groups. I wonder if some of it is
just the example. So for the second half of my childhood,
I was homeschooled and I was one of five kids
and we were considered a small family.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Yeah, And I do think there's something that when you
see your peers having large families in managing, it's encouraging
and maybe you're like, yeah, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah totally. Yeah, you just do it because everybody else
is doing it. Would you homeschool your own.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Kids, It would be my preference not to one. My
mother actually was a teacher. I am not a teacher.
I do not enjoy teaching, so it wouldn't be my
favorite thing. I think ideally a school that you know,
doesn't have CRT, does reflect values would be really cool.
(21:30):
But I think it's a great option for some people.
And I think one thing it gave me that I
don't know how to replicate for my own children is
when I was in high school, you know, I would
just do my studies and be done, and it gave
me a lot of free time, which I, like a NERD,
used to read, to imagine, to write levels, and I
think that was really beneficial for me. And I often
(21:53):
see kids in high school, especially if they're smart, who
get on the advanced placement classes and they end up
doing so much much homework. I feel like they never
get a chance to breathe, to think, to be bored.
And I don't know the answer there, but it seems
to me that's not the ideal either, right.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I think the being bored or letting your kids be bored,
like showing them what boredom looks like, is a really
important thing that we don't talk about enough. Kids should
be bored sometimes. They shouldn't be entertained every minute of
the day, and they shouldn't be engaged every.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Minute of the day.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
You have to sometimes just let your mind wander and
see where it ends up.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
So I think you should turn that into a book.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
No, They're like, no, thanks, I'm out of the book
writing game, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I just I could see like all these morning talk
shows debating about whether kids should be bored, and I
it's so important.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
The book that I wanted to write, or that I
kind of always thought about, was lazy Parenting, And how
like lazy parenting is the best parenting, the.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Letting your kids kind of.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
You know, do whatever and not whatever and not what's greens,
especially because I like I was thinking about this before
the kids were on the screens. But yeah, lazy parenting
is often the very best parenting.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
No, I think that would be a really cool concept
because yeah, I sometimes see you know, moms these days,
and you know, it's just sometimes it feels like it's, yeah,
just an awful lot of work.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, I may make it more than it needs to be.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Yeah, and well, anyway, I don't want to speak at
a term as a non parent. I know, Hey, yeah,
parents weighing in. But I do think sometimes that's why,
you know, people without kids are afraid of having kids
because they're like, oh, it's the only way to parents, right,
I'm this stressed in working this hard all the time. Yeah,
(23:46):
and yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Tim Carney was on the show talking about that in
his new books.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
So you know, it's I think it's.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Okay to say, like, take it easy, don't parent quite
so hard.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
So end here with.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Your best tip for my listeners on how they can
improve their lives.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
So it is a tip that I don't fully follow
myself so full.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That's kind of tipt off your phone.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, I've I've this lens. I'm doing a fast from Reddit,
where I love reading other people's trauma and the moral
analysis and I miss it. But I also am like, Oh,
it's giving me time to be bored, to be engaged
with real people. And I think, I think a lot
(24:37):
of our phone and internet consumption is junk food. It's
simulation of relationships. And I think not anti technology. You know,
I met you through the internet. I write for a
site that's all digital, But I do think the amount
of time we spend, Like sometimes I just look up
for my phone and look at a cloud and I'm like,
oh wow, look at that. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, I agree, touch grass very important. Get off your phone.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I don't always succeed either, but it's something that I
absolutely aim for.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Thank you so much for coming on. She is Kate Trinko.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Look for her at Daily Signal and her novel is
coming out.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Two years from now, let's say two years right now.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Thanks Kate, Thanks Caeryl, Thanks so much for joining us
on the Carol Marcowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
I'm back home after nearly three weeks on the road.
I landed like two am Thursday morning, back from ten
days at Hillsdale and a week in Israel before that.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I was home for one day in between, and my
family also came to visit me at Hillsdale for a weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I had really missed everyone a lot. Obviously. My kids
are fourteen, eleven, and eight, so in a lot of
ways they're self sufficient, but they still need me in
so many other ways, and I love being needed. Obviously,
my husband has been exceedingly understanding about what I've needed
to do in the last year plus really since my
(00:52):
book came out last March, and.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It was very nice to be back with him.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
He's just my favorite.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
But this isn't a month about how much I love
my family, though I do, or how much I missed them,
which I did. On Friday, I ran errands around my
community and I just drove around with a huge smile
on my face. I was so so happy to be
home in Florida. Mean, look, I loved New York when
(01:20):
I lived there.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I did.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It was home in every way I grew up in Brooklyn,
it was.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Really home base.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And even now when I was in Michigan, I'd say
to my husband, you know when I get back home
to New York, and he'd say, we don't live there anymore.
Or I saw that New York had flooding at the
airports the weekend that my family was coming to visit me,
and I said to my husband.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Will your flights get out okay? And he was like, Uh, yeah,
they'll get out fine. From Florida. New York is a
hard habit to break, really, but being in Florida isn't
all around just relaxer. Yes, the sunshine, the weather, the
happy people, all of it really helps, but it's really
(02:03):
still even two years in that I'm so grateful that
we get to have a normal life here. I feel
like a genius every single day in so many different ways.
Like we left because of COVID, but there's so much
that's going on now that I'm just so happy to
not be in New York for We talk a lot
about moving on this show because the last four years
(02:26):
have been this great migration in this country, as so
many people move from blue states to red ones. Our
move to Florida remains one of the absolute best things
I've ever done. I'm still so grateful to be here,
so blessed that it was an option, and I don't
take for granted, not even for one second, how lucky
we are to be in the free state of Florida.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I loved New York.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
But did it ever give me a sense of peace
and calm and security from the outside world.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
No. It gave me a lot, but not that. And
I know there are people listening who would say, yes,
New York makes me feel safe in a crazy world.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
And that's fine, that's good.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
But if you live somewhere that does not give you
a sense of calm, that does not give you the
security that you know you should feel at home, think
about leaving. It's hard, but I can't tell you how
good it feels to be free. Coming up next and
interview with Katrina Trinko. Join us after the break. Welcome
(03:27):
back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest
today is Kate Trinko, editor in chief of The Daily Signal.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Hi, Kate, Hey, Carol, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
It's so nice to see you. So I reached out
to you for this podcast. I think you're a fantastic writer.
I've been reading you for years, but I reached out
specifically because you had this piece in February called Dating
Crisis Fuels Marriage Crisis. And on this show we talk
a lot about marriage, we talk a lot about dating,
(03:59):
and you wrote some really interesting things in that piece
that I think resonated with a lot of people. I'm
going to read just one thing you wrote. As an
unmarried woman in my thirties, I also realized there's no
quick fix to the situation, which is people not getting married,
and that married Americans are often unaware of how bleak
the current dating landscape can be. Ultimately, if we're going
(04:22):
to have more healthy marriages, we need to change our
dating culture.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
What do we need to change?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I want to get on it.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Well, where do I start? No, I think some of
it first. Well, let me be clear, sometimes singles are
a little too picky. I myself have been too picky, and.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I don't think there's anything wrong with being too picky.
I don't know this is key about what, but this
is one of my things, right, And I think, like,
if you're going to partner with somebody for the rest
of your life.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I'm picky is good.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I don't know the being too picky is never one
of my things that I think single people are doing wrong,
you know. I I think that being picky and being
choosy and really you know, not.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Settling is good. So be picky, do it?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
You know? Well, let me give an example of what
I mean by my pickyness. I'm five nine. One time
a guy who was five seven asked me out, who
was local. We agreed on a lot of, you know,
serious things. I wouldn't even go out on one day
with him. That's the sort of thing should I have explored.
Could there be chemistry and one day? That's That's what
I mean. I generally agree with you, though certainly no
(05:31):
one should go to the altar say I'm going to
be with you forever and be like, but I hate
this this and this about you?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Are settled for you? Like, that's not not where you
want to be.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yeah, absolutely not. In terms of fixing the culture, I think,
you know, I talked a lot not to put the
pressure on married folks like you, But you know, if
married people and I know you've talked about this on
your podcast, could set people up, have friends over, try
to just stimulate meetings. I think that's one thing that
always helps. I know a lot of my married friends,
(06:00):
they have kids, they're busy, But even if it's something
you do once a year, I think it's a great
thing to do. Especially you know, often wives no women friends.
Husbands have male friends. You know, let's get them in
a room together, right. I also think encouraging people to
be good on dating apps. That might sound a little weird,
but I think one of the things on dating apps
(06:22):
that's a real big problem is you're constantly going out
with people that you don't share any friends in common with. Well,
there's not you're not really worried about accountability. In the
same way, I think there's definitely folks on the apps
who treat people they meet on the apps in a
way they wouldn't treat friends in real life if there
were consequences socially. So I think having a bit more
empathy saying, oh, if I wouldn't ghost a friend, I'm
(06:43):
not going to ghost a date. That doesn't mean you
have to tell someone you've been out with twice when
they ask you out again, Like twenty reasons you don't
ever want to see them again, but no, thank you,
So that would be a good start.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Well, are there differences between the dating apps? Are theyre
good ones or bad ones? Or are they all kind
of not that great? You know?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
That is it depends on what you're looking for. I
would say in generally.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Like the commercials for like e harmony really get me.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Like I feel like, if I were.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Single, e harmony seems like, you know, people are already
get married, and you know, I think that that's sort
of the.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
The better path.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I've Also, you know, there's the I think it's called
rite dating, like there's for conservatives. And then a guy
who responds to a lot of my stuff on Twitter
never married dating, you know, website, website or app or
are there you know, are there better apps out there
or not?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
I there's no one that I would say is like
it'll work for sure?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Oh yes, right, yes, yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I also a lot of it is luck. It's it's
you know, I I think a lot of married people
pretend that they were like skillful in their quest to
get married and that's why it worked out for them.
And I think the luck component is overlooked and if
single people knew that we that I understand that I
(08:13):
got lucky and our timing was right and all the
different things that have to kind of work out. It's
not skill. It really is a lot of it is
luck based, so.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Great and I think so in my let's see, in
my dating life, I have been on Tinder, bumble E Harmony,
which did not work out for me, like the commercial show,
and then being Catholic. I've also been on a site
called Catholic Match. So my current boyfriend I met on
Catholic Match. But I also he's my first relationship from
that site and I've been on and off of it
(08:46):
for fourteen fifteen years. So I think being who you
are on the apps is really important. I really encourage
people it's better to get fewer matches and be who
you are. You know, I'm always like, hey, I'm conservative.
Does that make you popular on DCPA? No, But someone
has a problem with that. We were never going to
work exactly. I think a lot of it is what
(09:08):
you make of it on a particular app, So your.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Beat is not necessarily dating. What else do you write about?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Oh gosh, I write about all kinds of things. One
of the things that I love about the daily signals
we can write about different cultural issues. So you know,
the past few months, I read a book on polyamory,
wrote about that, wrote Abigail Shreyer's great new book, so.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Good, my favorite thing right now.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I'm telling everybody about it, Bad Therapy, Abigail Sreyer, amazing
must read.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
What did you think of it?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I thought it was fantastic, And you know, there's so
many things in it that I thought, you know, I'm
in this world, right We're in this like politically conservative world.
We think we're going to going to like stand up
for our kids in every situation, and we're going to
fight back on all these things. But even Abigail says
she opens the book with an anecdote about her son
(10:01):
having a stomach ache and they go to the doctor
and the doctor asks her to leave the room so
she could ask the son some questions about whether he's
suicidal he has a stomach ache, And Abigail says herself,
says that she stood up like to leave, and then
she was like, wait a minute, I don't leave the room.
And things like that made me think like I also
(10:23):
maybe would for a second there be like, oh okay,
I'll leave the room. And then I'm not leaving the
room my kids, you know, eleven years old and has
a stomach ache or I think maybe twelve.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
It just kind.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Of the idea of standing up for your kids and
protecting them from bad ideas is just such a big
one throughout the book, and I loved it. Thought it
was so well written and very well done.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (10:51):
I completely agree. I thought that anecdote was really powerful
and it struck me. I think, you know, when you
and I were growing up, Carol, I don't remember a
doctor ever asking my mom or dad to leave and
like questioning me about my mental health. I don't remember.
She Abigail Schreyer also had an anecdote in the book
about a fifth grade classroom where like the teacher asked
(11:11):
them all to share one thing they were feeling really
bad about, and the kids, Yeah, when kids started saying,
he doesn't like I think his dad's new girlfriend. Another
kids started talking about her parents' divorce. Third kid had
something else, and then suddenly half of these fifth graders
are crying. And I thought this was really interesting. I'm
a big proponent of therapy of medication if necessary, I
(11:35):
haven't given as much thought frankly to you know, childhood
therapy and medication in those things. And I think what
she did was first and foremost, as you said, with
the doctor anecdote showed hey, this stuff may be happening
to your kids without them ever entering a therapist's office.
And now that was amazing. And then I think secondly
she raised a lot of interesting questions about when is
(11:58):
therapy appropriate parents part of their kids therapy. You know,
what do you lose if you put a kid on medication?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Right?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
And I thought, oh, you know, it's it's good to
see a skeptical examination.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, there was another example in there where you know,
the teacher calls her and says that her daughter, uh
watches the clock, you know, at the end of the day,
and therefore she has I think, I forget.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
If it was add or Adhd.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And Abigail's like or she's very organized and she's taking
the bus for the first time without her without her brothers,
and maybe she's just watching the clock to make sure
she doesn't miss the bus, and like, why.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Fix that?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Even if let's say that is some kind of sign
of something. So what So we're all a little different,
and we all have kind of our own problems, and
I'm pretty scattered. I wish I was a little more
organized and watching the clock, I you know, why medicate
for that?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
And just I loved it.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I thought it was fantastic and and really made me
think about the way we treat kids like adults. And
whereas an adult can tell a therapist like that they're
on the wrong track, a kid really can't do that right.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And that's that is she talked about it. I think
being a power and balance and that that really resonated
with me. And I also think, you know, I have
a friend who is a child therapist, and I think
there's a big difference between kids who don't have parents,
whether they're in foster care or sometimes other difficult circumstances
sort of being raised by you know, a smart sort
(13:31):
of extended family. That's very different than a kid who
has you know, a good parent or two good parents
at home. And I need to recognize when intervention is
appropriate and when they've got parents who know that looking
at the clock is right their personality.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, what would you be doing if you weren't a writer?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Uh? Well, twist, I would still be a writer. I
would love to be a novelist.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
One.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Do you think you have a novelist?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
I do, But the problem is to say, thirty six,
I'm still a little thirteen at heart, and I'm like, oh,
is this I don't know. Do you want to put
this level of emotion out in the world. I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yes, put it out there in the world. See what happens.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Absolutely, I think if you've got a book in new
that you need to write.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Like, write it.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I don't think that I think should be stopping you.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
All right, I love it. I go home and write it. Now.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Do you feel like you've made it?
Speaker 4 (14:28):
So? You know, it's funny you mentioned this question in
the email about the podcast and you have put me
on like a deep dive about my life. Was like
New Year's all over?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
You want to do?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You know? So we all love the Carol Marko which
show put you on a deep dive about your life.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
No, but I feel like it was a great question
and it made me think in the one sense, yeah,
I do think I've made it because I get to
do stuff like, you know, write articles about you know,
Schreyer's new book about dating that you know, there's a
concept called the flow that I don't know who to
give it credit for. But it's when you don't really
even notice, you don't notice what you're doing. You're just
(15:10):
doing it and you're so absorbed by it. And that's
something I get when I write. So I'm very grateful
that I get paid to do something that gives me
that sense of contentment and really that out of my
head sense. But I would say, you know, I try
to be someone, not always successfully, who's open to growth,
and I think I was very rigid, especially in my
(15:30):
early twenties when we actually first met, and I was like, Oh,
you want to be on Fox News, you want to
write a best selling book, you want to do this,
you want to do that. And as I'm a lot older,
I'm like, but what brings you joy? Right, Yeah, that's
really rewarding.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
So you write about cultural a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Do you have something that you think is like our
biggest cultural or societal problem?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I would say.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Maybe the loss of hope and meaning I'm really struck
a lot, and I haven't written too much about these
issues because I'm trying to think of what I have
to add to the conversation. But you know, when we
see the deaths of despair increasing, when we see drug
addiction going up, when we see people who are homeless,
and you know, often that's a mixture of Sometimes, of
(16:17):
course it's economic, but often is we know it's a
mixture of mental health and drug addiction issues. And even
to a certain extent, when I see how much time
people spend on their phones and I mean, I'm guilty.
I don't like the weekly report from my iPhone it
would be. But it's like there's a sense of, yeah,
(16:37):
do we have meaning? Do we have hope? Are we
just trying to distract ourselves? Or are we living fulfilling lives?
And I feel like a lot of our problems have
a more spiritual route where people are just genuinely not
hopeful and fulfilled.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Are you hopeful we could solve that or is it solvable?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Give us the big answers here.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Kakes well as a politics writer. The tricky thing is,
I'm not sure that politics can solve that. I'm not
sure that that, you know, President Biden can in the
State of the Union announce some policy. I think there's
stuff on the policy level we can do to nudge
people towards certain things, But ultimately, I think, you know,
this is where maybe church's synagogues have a bigger role
(17:22):
to play. Something actually that I keep meeting to write on,
but that I was really struck about when I went
to Israel last year was how Israel has the highest
birth rate in the Western world, right, And you know,
I talked to people there and like, what's going on
with that? Why is that? And they were like, because
you know, we believe life is so important, and you know,
(17:45):
we think as a Jewish people, we've been through so much,
it's so important to celebrate life and celebrate children. And
I was like, where is this in the rest of
the West. Instead, we have people you know, my age,
and you know, like, oh, can I have children. I
don't know about climate change, I don't know that a
kindle being a mother, there's so much fear. Yeah, and
(18:07):
so yeah, my hope is we can get some more
of that Israeli attitude and just in general, get in
touch more spirituality with God and feel empowered to have
kids right in life, to not spend your life distracted.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
It's interesting because I used to think that Israel's high
birth rate was partially related to the fact, or maybe
more than partially, but they have a very kid centric
kind of society, Like you don't tuck the kids away
somewhere else, like the kids.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, kids are.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Noisy, they're you know, loud, they're in your face, and
they're they're here, and that we're not We're not hiding
them away. But I've been to European countries. I think
Spain is very kid focused like that, but they have
a very low birth rate, and it's like that doesn't
really explain it.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
So there's no right way or wrong way.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Kind of to be about kids and to have that outcome.
I'm curious why Israel has that and they have it
across I don't know. I'm pretty sure about this, but
across the religious groups. It's not just Jews, it's not
just Muslims. Also, the Christians and Israel have more kids,
and there has to be something that they're doing societally.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
But I just I can't.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Every time I think I've got it, I find like
an exception to that. So I'm not so sure.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Well, I will say you are right about Spain. And
my sister actually is married to a Stanyard and lives
in the Madrid area with her little girl, and everywhere
they go for a little girl who's about eleven months
old now like center of attention everyone. But my sister
doesn't really know that many other parents her age she's thirty,
who have kids, right, So it's interesting where they cherish them,
(19:55):
it seems, but for whatever reason, it's not that popular
to have them.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yes, and they have if they do have them, they
have like one. There was also this great study of
great great is not the right word, but how when
Spain gave a larger paternity leave to dads, like they
gave them a really generous paternity leave, they could take,
you know, a long time off. Their birth rate went down.
(20:19):
It was like the dad saw how hard it was
to have kids, and they were like, just just one's fine,
you know. So you know, policies don't always work out
the way. Maybe we think that they will.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Right And I think I wonder to your point on Israel.
This is me just thinking out loud, fact free because
I have not studied yet, But yes, it is true
across religious groups. I wonder if some of it is
just the example. So for the second half of my childhood,
I was homeschooled and I was one of five kids
and we were considered a small family.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Yeah, And I do think there's something that when you
see your peers having large families in managing, it's encouraging
and maybe you're like, yeah, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah totally. Yeah, you just do it because everybody else
is doing it. Would you homeschool your own.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Kids, It would be my preference not to one. My
mother actually was a teacher. I am not a teacher.
I do not enjoy teaching, so it wouldn't be my
favorite thing. I think ideally a school that you know,
doesn't have CRT, does reflect values would be really cool.
(21:30):
But I think it's a great option for some people.
And I think one thing it gave me that I
don't know how to replicate for my own children is
when I was in high school, you know, I would
just do my studies and be done, and it gave
me a lot of free time, which I, like a NERD,
used to read, to imagine, to write levels, and I
think that was really beneficial for me. And I often
(21:53):
see kids in high school, especially if they're smart, who
get on the advanced placement classes and they end up
doing so much much homework. I feel like they never
get a chance to breathe, to think, to be bored.
And I don't know the answer there, but it seems
to me that's not the ideal either, right.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I think the being bored or letting your kids be bored,
like showing them what boredom looks like, is a really
important thing that we don't talk about enough. Kids should
be bored sometimes. They shouldn't be entertained every minute of
the day, and they shouldn't be engaged every.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Minute of the day.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
You have to sometimes just let your mind wander and
see where it ends up.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
So I think you should turn that into a book.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
No, They're like, no, thanks, I'm out of the book
writing game, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I just I could see like all these morning talk
shows debating about whether kids should be bored, and I
it's so important.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
The book that I wanted to write, or that I
kind of always thought about, was lazy Parenting, And how
like lazy parenting is the best parenting, the.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Letting your kids kind of.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
You know, do whatever and not whatever and not what's greens,
especially because I like I was thinking about this before
the kids were on the screens. But yeah, lazy parenting
is often the very best parenting.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
No, I think that would be a really cool concept
because yeah, I sometimes see you know, moms these days,
and you know, it's just sometimes it feels like it's, yeah,
just an awful lot of work.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, I may make it more than it needs to be.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Yeah, and well, anyway, I don't want to speak at
a term as a non parent. I know, Hey, yeah,
parents weighing in. But I do think sometimes that's why,
you know, people without kids are afraid of having kids
because they're like, oh, it's the only way to parents, right,
I'm this stressed in working this hard all the time. Yeah,
(23:46):
and yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Tim Carney was on the show talking about that in
his new books.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
So you know, it's I think it's.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Okay to say, like, take it easy, don't parent quite
so hard.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
So end here with.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Your best tip for my listeners on how they can
improve their lives.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
So it is a tip that I don't fully follow
myself so full.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
That's kind of tipt off your phone.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Yeah, I've I've this lens. I'm doing a fast from Reddit,
where I love reading other people's trauma and the moral
analysis and I miss it. But I also am like, Oh,
it's giving me time to be bored, to be engaged
with real people. And I think, I think a lot
(24:37):
of our phone and internet consumption is junk food. It's
simulation of relationships. And I think not anti technology. You know,
I met you through the internet. I write for a
site that's all digital, But I do think the amount
of time we spend, Like sometimes I just look up
for my phone and look at a cloud and I'm like,
oh wow, look at that. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, I agree, touch grass very important. Get off your phone.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I don't always succeed either, but it's something that I
absolutely aim for.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Thank you so much for coming on. She is Kate Trinko.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Look for her at Daily Signal and her novel is
coming out.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Two years from now, let's say two years right now.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Thanks Kate, Thanks Caeryl, Thanks so much for joining us
on the Carol Marcowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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