December 4, 2023 • 24 mins
In this episode, Karol discusses a study on the happiness of conservative religious couples and their relationship with their children. She then interviews Dr. Gad Saad, an evolutionary behavioral scientist, who discusses his book "The Saad Truth About Happiness: Eight Secrets for Leading the Good Life." Dr. Saad talks about parasitic thinking, immigration policies, the importance of shared values in a relationship, and living an authentic life to avoid future regrets. He also shares his views on success and offers advice on how to improve one's life. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Back in twenty nineteen, there was a really interesting study
from the Institute for Family Studies.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You'll recall I had Brad Wilcox from the Institute on
the show a few weeks back. They do really interesting
work and they joined up with the Wheatley Institution for
a study called The Ties that Bind is Faith a
global force for good or ill in the Family. And
this study found that conservative religious couples are by far
(00:40):
the happiest. And you might say, oh, well, of course,
you know a study an Institute for Family Studies, they're
going to support, you know, conservative religious couples, and they're
going to bend the facts to say that they are
the happiest. But actually the second place happiest were secular
progressive couples. I didn't find that new particularly surprising, but
(01:02):
certain quarters, like the New York Times, were pretty shocked
that those terrible religious people could also have happy marriages.
And I think a lot of people on the right
were surprised to find that the progressives were in second
place to the happy marriage grouping tons of online comments
alleged at the time that religious women have no agency
(01:24):
and so must have been forced to amplify their happiness
for the researchers. And then other people said, oh, the
progressives are just lying about their happiness, et cetera. But
taking those numbers at face value, I thought it made
a lot of sense. And then there was the issue
of sex. The report found that those same religious conservatives
(01:46):
have far higher satisfaction in their sex lives and either
secular or less religious couples. Commonly held wisdom is that
the freewheeling secular people are having the best sex, but actually,
religious conservative women reported the huh highest level of sexual satisfaction,
and it wasn't even close. The researchers highlighted data that
(02:08):
quote two thirds of married mothers would prefer not to
work full time, a fact often overlooked in our public
conversation about work and family, which is heavily influenced by
progressive assumptions.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
End quote.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
What women are supposed to want and what they actually
want seem to be at odds with each other. In
the religious world, there is much less of this feminist
supposed to want. The traditional setup of the relationship with
the man as the breadwinner allows for women to be
honest when they would prefer to stay home with the children.
No one is there to tell them that they are
(02:40):
betraying feminism or not behaving the way women are supposed
to behave. But secular guilt over making these traditional choices
just isn't at play for them, And it makes sense
that being allowed to make these choices for yourself and
not having pushback on those choices would lead to happier marriages,
their sex lives better because they're getting what they want
(03:02):
from relationships. The rest of the time. There was a
you know, the several of these kinds of studies that
showed that couples had more sex when the men and
the relationship helped out with the dishes, And I think
it's less about the specific task of washing dirty dishes
and more about general relationship satisfaction, whether that means the
(03:23):
husband helps clean up or the wife is free to
not have a full time job. So for the same reasons,
it made sense to me that the second happiest group
in the study were the secular progressive women. A progressive
woman gets into her marriage with a certain expectation for
her role and also for that of her husband. The
conservative couple might divide their household chores along traditional gender lines.
(03:48):
The man takes out the garbage, the woman clears the table.
But the progressive couple will also preemptively have decided who
does what in their household. I think that this leads
to higher satisfactions despite the many outward differences between the
two groups. So there's a new Gallup study out just
very recently, I think you know a week or so ago,
(04:10):
that has very similar results. But when it comes to parenting,
very conservative parents have the best relationships with their children
according to this study, and very liberal parents are in
second place. The worst relationship quality is among self identified liberals,
just liberals, not very liberal, then moderates, then conservatives. I
(04:33):
think this follows the same reasons as the marriage studies.
Very conservative or very liberal parents lay out their expectations
for their children. We live in this there are no mistakes.
Everything is as good as everything else world, and I
don't think that's true. I think telling your kids what
your values are is really important, and setting expectations for
(04:56):
your children about their role, about your role, about how
they move through the world goes a long way toward
helping them, but also a long way toward having a
great relationship with them yourself. So tell your kids what
you really think. Don't muddle through it and give them
the middle ground. Tell them what you really believe, and
(05:19):
that will lead to a better relationship between you. Coming
up next an interview with Goad Sad. Join us after
the break.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
My guest today is doctor God.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Sad God is a professor, evolutionary behavioral scientist, best selling author,
and host of the popular podcast The Sad Truth with
Doctor Sad. His latest book is The Sad Truth about Happiness,
Eight Secrets.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
For Leading the Good Life. I have it right here.
So nice to have you on, Gad.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Oh, I'm so glad to be with you, and congratulations
on the launch of your new show.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
So the show is largely about how to have a
happy life, and you have a new book that's about
the eight Secrets to Happiness.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
What made you write this book? Did you just want
to get on my show?
Speaker 5 (06:08):
That's exactly right. But in addition to that, so I
would receive two types of feedback from people in my
public engagement. So one was, hey, what's your secret to
being always so playful and fun, and you always use
humor even when you're dealing with difficult topics. What's your
(06:28):
secret to happiness? And so I would receive thousands of
such emails from people. And secondly, I noticed that whenever
I would post something, let's say, on Twitter, that was prescriptive,
meaning that I'm offering some advice, which oftentimes to me
seemed like rather obvious, banal stuff. You know, you know,
(06:49):
assume personal agency, assume personal responsibility, get off the proverbial couch.
People would write to me saying, my God, that was
so helpful to me. It really moved me, and so on.
And so that kind of made me think, well, if
people seem to trust my words, they want to know
about what leads me to be happy, maybe I could
(07:09):
have the audacity to write such a book, which of
course was a bit daunting at first because probably of
all topics that philosophers have covered through the millennia, none
has been as frequent as to study, you know, what
is the good life? How do you live a happy life?
And so what I try to do in the book
is take my personal experiences backed up by ancient wisdoms
(07:30):
and contemporary science.
Speaker 6 (07:31):
Hopefully you've got a good book.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
So I'm a happy person. You're a happy person.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
But times are clearly tough right now, especially for US Jews.
How do you maintain cheerfulness when everything is pretty terrible?
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Yeah, that's a good one. You know, it's not easy because,
as you may have noticed when some people who follow
me on social media, I've put up a few tweets
that were atypical of my usual optimistic self. In one
of the tweets a couple of weeks ago, you know,
really went viral because I was saying, look, I'm always
(08:06):
looking to see some optimistic angle, you know, some hopeful angle,
and yet I feel as though I'm drowning in the
darkness because I mean, the main reason is because I
feel that the West is really not open to implementing
some of the strategies that need to be implemented in
order for us to come out of this darkness. But
(08:27):
I still believe that truth and freedom will prevail, and so,
in an existential sense, even when it looks very dark,
and we know we have a long history of persecution,
we've always ultimately prevailed. So I still can find ways
to be happy even in such a difficult period.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
What are some things that you're doing to kind of
spark that happiness. I'm sure you have some tips.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
Well.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
One is that I keep engaged in the issue, even
though it takes a great personal toll on me. So
the amount of you know, jew hatred that I've received
from all angles, the progressive left, from the ultra right,
from Islamic sources had been an utter tsunami.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
And yet you.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Know, being engaged provides you purpose and meaning. Right, I
could easily say I'm turning off Twitter. I'm not getting engaged.
I receive way too much hate. I've already done more
than what one person could hope to ever do. Let
me just go and hug my children. But then that
would make me feel, in a sense inauthentic, because we're
(09:30):
all called to contribute to this battle in whichever way
that we can. And so one of the ways that
paradoxically I am happy because I feel authentic, is to
continue to lend my voice to this great and important
civilizational battle. But of course I always contextualize whatever we're
going through in a greater hole. You know, I did
(09:50):
escape the Middle East. I know that some people on
October seventh were not as fortunate as I was, but
it was an absolute miracle that I was able to
escape and live a fruitful life. And so I can
always take whatever dark period I'm going through and say
it could be worse. So the ability to always feel
grateful even when you're facing difficult moments is certainly a
(10:14):
secret to happiness.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I think about leaving Twitter a lot, I mean, just
because it is such a cesspool and it's such a
negative place. But I get the living authentically by staying
in the conversation, continuing to fight the battles that need
to be fought. It's just, you know, it's hard to do,
and I appreciate that you're doing it, you know, despite everything.
A question that I ask all of my guests is
(10:37):
what do you think is our largest cultural or societal
problem in America?
Speaker 4 (10:41):
And is it solvable?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
But since you're Canadian, let's do the Western world. What
do you consider our biggest societal issue.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
It's really a combination of factors that almost I don't
want to be pessimistic, render it intractable. So of course
there's all of the parasitic ideas, which you know I
discussed not my Happiness book, but the book before that.
On the parasitic mind that have really affected our ability
to think critically and would reason. And the reason why
(11:09):
I use the parasitic metaphor is precisely because it is
parasitic thinking, right. I give the example recently of another
one of those parasitized animals. So, the wood cricket usually
doesn't want to jump into water. It hates water. But
when it is parasitized by a hairworm, the hairworm needs
(11:30):
the wood cricket to jump in water in order to
complete its reproductive cycles.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
So the wood.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Cricket happily and merrily commits suicide to serve the interest
of the hairworm. Well, that's called Anna Epstein, the woman
who at Boston University, a Jewish woman was pulling down
the photos of Jewish babies. And so number one, parasitic
thinking has infested the West. So that's one problem. Coupled
(11:56):
with that is the fact that the open immigration policy
that the West was more than happy to implement, which
comes from parasitic thinking, makes it so that you have
millions of people that have come into the West that
don't share any of the fundamental values that define the West.
That's not good. And then you don't have the willpower
(12:17):
or testicular fortitude in the West to implement the corrective
strategies to try to resolve these problems. So I often
use the analogy of you know, you go see your
physician and God forbid, the physician says you've got, you know,
stage four cancer, and then you say, well, there is
no cancer. There is no such thing as cancer. But
(12:38):
if there is cancer, it's probably the Jews who did it,
and they're holding back the cure for cancer because they
want to be greedy and make money. And as a
matter of fact, I so believe that there is no
cancer that I'm going to smoke four packs of cigarette
and I'm going to inhale from a bag of asbestos.
So that's what the West is doing. So all of
these things, parasitic thinking, open immigration, and unwillingness to recognize
(13:02):
that there's a problem makes it that we are in
a death spiral. Now that doesn't mean that it's over.
We can still auto correct, but the more we wait,
the bloodier the autocorrection will be.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
What are some first steps that we need to take
to correct that.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Well, number one, you can't presume that all cultures are equal.
You can't so that comes from an idea pathogen a
parasitic idea called cultural or relativism. Who are you to
judge the cultural and religious beliefs of others? Right, be tolerant,
don't be a cultural imperialist. So if they want to
(13:37):
come into our country, well then they can then practice
whatever they want. If you know, genocidal jew hatred is
part of their noble culture and noble faith, well then
you tolerate that.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
Right. But of course Carl.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
Popper, the famous philosopher of science, talked about the paradox
of tolerance, which is you can't tolerate the intolerable, that
which would eradicate you when they become powerful enough to
do so. So the first thing that we have to
do is recognize. So this is a term I call
it cultural homophully, meaning that homophully is to be attracted
(14:10):
to something that's similar to you. Right, So, for example,
in human mating, you tend to assort with people who
are the man is taller than the woman. That's a
source of mating.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Cue.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Well, when it comes to immigration policy, you have to
look for people from It doesn't matter what color they are,
it doesn't matter what their orientation is. It doesn't matter,
but they have to fundamentally have similar foundational values. If
their values are not similar to yours, well you are
betting on the future of your grandchildren and their children.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
So Step one have a much.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
More vetted and judicious immigration policy that would hopefully solve
a lot of the problems that we have currently.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So on a micro level, the finding you know people
who have similar values. Your first rule to a happy
life in the book is finding the right spouse. I
hear from people all the time who don't know how
to do that. So what's a good tip for meeting
somebody like minded with whom you can take that hour
long walk in the morning, hand in hand like you
do with your wife.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
I read the read it. That's lovely, Thank you so much. Well.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
There are two maxims in evolutionary psychology as relating to
mating behavior. One is the opposites attract maxim. The other
one is the birds of a feather flock together maxim,
which I kind of spoke about when I talked about
cultural horm Awfully and overwhelmingly. The research shows that for
long term unions, you increase your chances of a successful
(15:41):
union dramatically if you assort with someone who has similar values,
belief systems, and so on. So if I am if
I meet a beautiful woman with whom I you know,
I'm very attracted to physically in terms of her personality,
but I happen to be very religious minded and she
(16:01):
happens to be a caustic atheist. Well, statistically speaking, it's
unlikely that it's going to work. Yes, love can conquer
some of these obstacles, but life is a game of,
you know, managing statistical possibilities, and I'm certainly reducing my
chances if on this foundational criterion, we are not assorting.
(16:23):
And so always be mindful of the fact that what
matters most is that you share in these foundational values.
If I'm someone who you know very much cares about
truth and freedom for whatever reason, my partner to be doesn't, well,
that's going to cause tension. And so so I talk
in the book about many of these cues that we
(16:43):
can assort. So, for example, one of the things that
my wife and I do well together is we're both playful.
Right now, I may be more of a joxer than
she is, But if she had been someone who's very
sullen and always serious, Probably it couldn't have worked well
because she I wouldn't have been able to bounce my
humor off her, and vice versa. So birds of a
(17:05):
feather truly do flock together.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
So physical hotness is not enough. You're saying it's a
first step.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Probably it is the first step. So I actually have
a quote in the book from one of my former
guests on the show, Charles Murray, a quote controversial political
scientist who co authored the book The Bell Curve and
so on, and he basically said, I don't have the
exact quote in front of me, but it completely resonated
(17:33):
with me. You know, find a spouse, and that person
should be someone that you're sexually attracted to and who's
your best friend. That basically is it.
Speaker 6 (17:42):
Right.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Sexual attraction will take you so far. But if there
isn't a deeper thing, that wanes because you know, we
even know the neuroanatomical stages that you go through. The
butterfly and the pit in your stomach is not going
to last twenty five years into your marriage. Now, I
mean that you won't still be sexually attracted to your partner,
but it goes through different stages. If the person that
(18:06):
I want to have sex with, is also someone that
I really appreciate their company. Well, then I've hit the lottery.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
When I was on your show, I said that sex
is the most important part of a relationship. And I
said to you that it's a controversial thing to say.
I mean, And after I was on your show and
after the clip was posted, several people were like, you're
not serious. I'm one following you, like, people really don't
want to hear that.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
But you know, I stand by it. I think that
you're right.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
It's your best friend who you also want to have
sex with, so otherwise it really doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
So you talk about.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Minimizing future regret by living an authentic life, How do
people live more authentically?
Speaker 5 (18:43):
Let me just give a background to the calculus of regret.
This is actually from one of my former doctoral professors
at my PhD at Cornell. His name is Thomas Gilovich,
and he pioneered the distinction between two types of regret.
Others have talked about this, so there are even prayers
(19:03):
that recognize those two forms of regret, regret due to
action versus regret due to inaction. Regret due to action
is because I did something I now regret having done
that thing. So I cheated on my wife and that
led to my divorce. I really regret that regret due
to inaction, is you know, I regret that I never
pursued my interest in art. I became a pediatrician because
(19:26):
my dad and his dad were pediatricians. But I hate medicine.
I can't stand it now. I wake up at seventy
three and I say, what a wasted life. And so
in that sense, that's what I mean by an authentic life.
I mean authenticity could mean in a personal setting. You know,
people might find you appealing, Carol, because you seem like
a real person, an authentic person, So that certainly is relevant.
(19:48):
But I'm talking more about an existential authenticity, living your
life in a manner that is congruent with your internal interests,
your internal values. If there's an incongruity there, then you're
probably going to regret it later in life. And so
to the best of your abilities if you can. And
that's why, by the way, the maxim, the delphic maxim
(20:09):
from the ancient Greeks Know Thyself, is so powerful because
that's exactly what it's saying. Right, those two words are
saying You're not going to live a happy life if
you don't know yourself, because then there's always going to
be these incongruities that causes you great angst. And so
you know, I often tell my students when they come
and see me, well what should I study? Should what
career I should go into? And I always give them
(20:31):
answers that at first seem as though they're cliche ish,
but they really are not. They stand the test of time,
which is you have to be able to choose a
profession that makes you wake up in the morning, rub
your hands in anticipatory glee, saying I'm so excited about
the day. Don't pursue a career because there are good
job opportunities. That's a perfect recipe to wake up at
(20:52):
fifty five and say I hate being an accountant even
though I make a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
So you live authentically. You have you know, a wife
that you love, you're.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
In a good relationship, you get the death threats from
all the right people.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Do you feel like you've made it?
Speaker 5 (21:07):
What an amazing question. So here it depends on what
you use as the metric of comparison and judging whether
you've made it right.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
So example, If I say, if my cue is have
I made.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
A greater impact as an academic than most academics ever will?
Then boy, have I made it? Okay, If my metric
of comparison is have I ended up in the Promised Land?
In my case it's not necessarily Israel, but it's in
Newport Beach, California, Well.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
Then I haven't made it because.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
I'm still languishing in the frozen tundra of socialist Quebec.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
But I think I'm not sure California is an any
better than the you know that maybe it's not frozen,
but it's still a socialist enough.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
So that's why maybe Sarasota or somewhere in Florida.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Yeah, that's exactly.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
And there are some opportunities that I'm currently working on
and a professional and personal grand sense short of you know,
not being in the place that i'd like to be,
if only because of the weather and so on, then
I think I have made it. The only thing that
I would perhaps change today is, you know, I never
(22:22):
thought that I could ever envision not being a professor.
It really is in my DNA. But the further I
go in my academic career, there are elements of being
a professor that I don't find as enjoyable at this point,
the administrative stuff, you know, telling Timmy why he received
the B minus in his participation grade, even though right
that's probably not the best use of my time. So
(22:45):
right now, if I had, my ideal situation would be
for me to wake up from morning tonight only be
involved in the process of creating, whether I'm creating online
content or lecturing or writing a book or what interests
me the most in life is knowledge, and so to
the extent that I don't have yet complete freedom to
(23:09):
only create, that might be the only thing where I
say I haven't yet fully made it. I haven't achieved
complete freedom. But overall, yes, I think I've made it.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Doctor Sad, I love talking to you.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I could keep this going forever, but let's end with
your best tip for my listeners on how they can
improve their lives.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Don't get mired in my opic things. Whether you love
or hate Donald Trump or Joe Biden. Those are important issues,
but there are way more important things. Your kids grow
up very fast. Make sure to enjoy every moment. Go
for a walk with your spouse, hug your dog, be playful.
So we often fall into the trap of triggering our
(23:49):
iron In all sorts of ways. Life is very short,
Every moment is precious. Enjoy life. It's truly magical.
Speaker 6 (23:56):
He is Get said.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
His book is The Sad Truth about Happiness Aid Secrets
for leading the Good Life. Check it out, buy it
wherever you buy your books, and listen to his amazing podcast.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I love having you on.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Thank you so much for coming on, and we'll talk
to you soon.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Thank you so much, cheers, thanks so much for joining
us on the Carol Marcoit Show.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Back in twenty nineteen, there was a really interesting study
from the Institute for Family Studies.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You'll recall I had Brad Wilcox from the Institute on
the show a few weeks back. They do really interesting
work and they joined up with the Wheatley Institution for
a study called The Ties that Bind is Faith a
global force for good or ill in the Family. And
this study found that conservative religious couples are by far
(00:40):
the happiest. And you might say, oh, well, of course,
you know a study an Institute for Family Studies, they're
going to support, you know, conservative religious couples, and they're
going to bend the facts to say that they are
the happiest. But actually the second place happiest were secular
progressive couples. I didn't find that new particularly surprising, but
(01:02):
certain quarters, like the New York Times, were pretty shocked
that those terrible religious people could also have happy marriages.
And I think a lot of people on the right
were surprised to find that the progressives were in second
place to the happy marriage grouping tons of online comments
alleged at the time that religious women have no agency
(01:24):
and so must have been forced to amplify their happiness
for the researchers. And then other people said, oh, the
progressives are just lying about their happiness, et cetera. But
taking those numbers at face value, I thought it made
a lot of sense. And then there was the issue
of sex. The report found that those same religious conservatives
(01:46):
have far higher satisfaction in their sex lives and either
secular or less religious couples. Commonly held wisdom is that
the freewheeling secular people are having the best sex, but actually,
religious conservative women reported the huh highest level of sexual satisfaction,
and it wasn't even close. The researchers highlighted data that
(02:08):
quote two thirds of married mothers would prefer not to
work full time, a fact often overlooked in our public
conversation about work and family, which is heavily influenced by
progressive assumptions.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
End quote.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
What women are supposed to want and what they actually
want seem to be at odds with each other. In
the religious world, there is much less of this feminist
supposed to want. The traditional setup of the relationship with
the man as the breadwinner allows for women to be
honest when they would prefer to stay home with the children.
No one is there to tell them that they are
(02:40):
betraying feminism or not behaving the way women are supposed
to behave. But secular guilt over making these traditional choices
just isn't at play for them, And it makes sense
that being allowed to make these choices for yourself and
not having pushback on those choices would lead to happier marriages,
their sex lives better because they're getting what they want
(03:02):
from relationships. The rest of the time. There was a
you know, the several of these kinds of studies that
showed that couples had more sex when the men and
the relationship helped out with the dishes, And I think
it's less about the specific task of washing dirty dishes
and more about general relationship satisfaction, whether that means the
(03:23):
husband helps clean up or the wife is free to
not have a full time job. So for the same reasons,
it made sense to me that the second happiest group
in the study were the secular progressive women. A progressive
woman gets into her marriage with a certain expectation for
her role and also for that of her husband. The
conservative couple might divide their household chores along traditional gender lines.
(03:48):
The man takes out the garbage, the woman clears the table.
But the progressive couple will also preemptively have decided who
does what in their household. I think that this leads
to higher satisfactions despite the many outward differences between the
two groups. So there's a new Gallup study out just
very recently, I think you know a week or so ago,
(04:10):
that has very similar results. But when it comes to parenting,
very conservative parents have the best relationships with their children
according to this study, and very liberal parents are in
second place. The worst relationship quality is among self identified liberals,
just liberals, not very liberal, then moderates, then conservatives. I
(04:33):
think this follows the same reasons as the marriage studies.
Very conservative or very liberal parents lay out their expectations
for their children. We live in this there are no mistakes.
Everything is as good as everything else world, and I
don't think that's true. I think telling your kids what
your values are is really important, and setting expectations for
(04:56):
your children about their role, about your role, about how
they move through the world goes a long way toward
helping them, but also a long way toward having a
great relationship with them yourself. So tell your kids what
you really think. Don't muddle through it and give them
the middle ground. Tell them what you really believe, and
(05:19):
that will lead to a better relationship between you. Coming
up next an interview with Goad Sad. Join us after
the break.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
My guest today is doctor God.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Sad God is a professor, evolutionary behavioral scientist, best selling author,
and host of the popular podcast The Sad Truth with
Doctor Sad. His latest book is The Sad Truth about Happiness,
Eight Secrets.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
For Leading the Good Life. I have it right here.
So nice to have you on, Gad.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Oh, I'm so glad to be with you, and congratulations
on the launch of your new show.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
So the show is largely about how to have a
happy life, and you have a new book that's about
the eight Secrets to Happiness.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
What made you write this book? Did you just want
to get on my show?
Speaker 5 (06:08):
That's exactly right. But in addition to that, so I
would receive two types of feedback from people in my
public engagement. So one was, hey, what's your secret to
being always so playful and fun, and you always use
humor even when you're dealing with difficult topics. What's your
(06:28):
secret to happiness? And so I would receive thousands of
such emails from people. And secondly, I noticed that whenever
I would post something, let's say, on Twitter, that was prescriptive,
meaning that I'm offering some advice, which oftentimes to me
seemed like rather obvious, banal stuff. You know, you know,
(06:49):
assume personal agency, assume personal responsibility, get off the proverbial couch.
People would write to me saying, my God, that was
so helpful to me. It really moved me, and so on.
And so that kind of made me think, well, if
people seem to trust my words, they want to know
about what leads me to be happy, maybe I could
(07:09):
have the audacity to write such a book, which of
course was a bit daunting at first because probably of
all topics that philosophers have covered through the millennia, none
has been as frequent as to study, you know, what
is the good life? How do you live a happy life?
And so what I try to do in the book
is take my personal experiences backed up by ancient wisdoms
(07:30):
and contemporary science.
Speaker 6 (07:31):
Hopefully you've got a good book.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
So I'm a happy person. You're a happy person.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
But times are clearly tough right now, especially for US Jews.
How do you maintain cheerfulness when everything is pretty terrible?
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Yeah, that's a good one. You know, it's not easy because,
as you may have noticed when some people who follow
me on social media, I've put up a few tweets
that were atypical of my usual optimistic self. In one
of the tweets a couple of weeks ago, you know,
really went viral because I was saying, look, I'm always
(08:06):
looking to see some optimistic angle, you know, some hopeful angle,
and yet I feel as though I'm drowning in the
darkness because I mean, the main reason is because I
feel that the West is really not open to implementing
some of the strategies that need to be implemented in
order for us to come out of this darkness. But
(08:27):
I still believe that truth and freedom will prevail, and so,
in an existential sense, even when it looks very dark,
and we know we have a long history of persecution,
we've always ultimately prevailed. So I still can find ways
to be happy even in such a difficult period.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
What are some things that you're doing to kind of
spark that happiness. I'm sure you have some tips.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
Well.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
One is that I keep engaged in the issue, even
though it takes a great personal toll on me. So
the amount of you know, jew hatred that I've received
from all angles, the progressive left, from the ultra right,
from Islamic sources had been an utter tsunami.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
And yet you.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Know, being engaged provides you purpose and meaning. Right, I
could easily say I'm turning off Twitter. I'm not getting engaged.
I receive way too much hate. I've already done more
than what one person could hope to ever do. Let
me just go and hug my children. But then that
would make me feel, in a sense inauthentic, because we're
(09:30):
all called to contribute to this battle in whichever way
that we can. And so one of the ways that
paradoxically I am happy because I feel authentic, is to
continue to lend my voice to this great and important
civilizational battle. But of course I always contextualize whatever we're
going through in a greater hole. You know, I did
(09:50):
escape the Middle East. I know that some people on
October seventh were not as fortunate as I was, but
it was an absolute miracle that I was able to
escape and live a fruitful life. And so I can
always take whatever dark period I'm going through and say
it could be worse. So the ability to always feel
grateful even when you're facing difficult moments is certainly a
(10:14):
secret to happiness.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I think about leaving Twitter a lot, I mean, just
because it is such a cesspool and it's such a
negative place. But I get the living authentically by staying
in the conversation, continuing to fight the battles that need
to be fought. It's just, you know, it's hard to do,
and I appreciate that you're doing it, you know, despite everything.
A question that I ask all of my guests is
(10:37):
what do you think is our largest cultural or societal
problem in America?
Speaker 4 (10:41):
And is it solvable?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
But since you're Canadian, let's do the Western world. What
do you consider our biggest societal issue.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
It's really a combination of factors that almost I don't
want to be pessimistic, render it intractable. So of course
there's all of the parasitic ideas, which you know I
discussed not my Happiness book, but the book before that.
On the parasitic mind that have really affected our ability
to think critically and would reason. And the reason why
(11:09):
I use the parasitic metaphor is precisely because it is
parasitic thinking, right. I give the example recently of another
one of those parasitized animals. So, the wood cricket usually
doesn't want to jump into water. It hates water. But
when it is parasitized by a hairworm, the hairworm needs
(11:30):
the wood cricket to jump in water in order to
complete its reproductive cycles.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
So the wood.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Cricket happily and merrily commits suicide to serve the interest
of the hairworm. Well, that's called Anna Epstein, the woman
who at Boston University, a Jewish woman was pulling down
the photos of Jewish babies. And so number one, parasitic
thinking has infested the West. So that's one problem. Coupled
(11:56):
with that is the fact that the open immigration policy
that the West was more than happy to implement, which
comes from parasitic thinking, makes it so that you have
millions of people that have come into the West that
don't share any of the fundamental values that define the West.
That's not good. And then you don't have the willpower
(12:17):
or testicular fortitude in the West to implement the corrective
strategies to try to resolve these problems. So I often
use the analogy of you know, you go see your
physician and God forbid, the physician says you've got, you know,
stage four cancer, and then you say, well, there is
no cancer. There is no such thing as cancer. But
(12:38):
if there is cancer, it's probably the Jews who did it,
and they're holding back the cure for cancer because they
want to be greedy and make money. And as a
matter of fact, I so believe that there is no
cancer that I'm going to smoke four packs of cigarette
and I'm going to inhale from a bag of asbestos.
So that's what the West is doing. So all of
these things, parasitic thinking, open immigration, and unwillingness to recognize
(13:02):
that there's a problem makes it that we are in
a death spiral. Now that doesn't mean that it's over.
We can still auto correct, but the more we wait,
the bloodier the autocorrection will be.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
What are some first steps that we need to take
to correct that.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Well, number one, you can't presume that all cultures are equal.
You can't so that comes from an idea pathogen a
parasitic idea called cultural or relativism. Who are you to
judge the cultural and religious beliefs of others? Right, be tolerant,
don't be a cultural imperialist. So if they want to
(13:37):
come into our country, well then they can then practice
whatever they want. If you know, genocidal jew hatred is
part of their noble culture and noble faith, well then
you tolerate that.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
Right. But of course Carl.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
Popper, the famous philosopher of science, talked about the paradox
of tolerance, which is you can't tolerate the intolerable, that
which would eradicate you when they become powerful enough to
do so. So the first thing that we have to
do is recognize. So this is a term I call
it cultural homophully, meaning that homophully is to be attracted
(14:10):
to something that's similar to you. Right, So, for example,
in human mating, you tend to assort with people who
are the man is taller than the woman. That's a
source of mating.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Cue.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Well, when it comes to immigration policy, you have to
look for people from It doesn't matter what color they are,
it doesn't matter what their orientation is. It doesn't matter,
but they have to fundamentally have similar foundational values. If
their values are not similar to yours, well you are
betting on the future of your grandchildren and their children.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
So Step one have a much.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
More vetted and judicious immigration policy that would hopefully solve
a lot of the problems that we have currently.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So on a micro level, the finding you know people
who have similar values. Your first rule to a happy
life in the book is finding the right spouse. I
hear from people all the time who don't know how
to do that. So what's a good tip for meeting
somebody like minded with whom you can take that hour
long walk in the morning, hand in hand like you
do with your wife.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
I read the read it. That's lovely, Thank you so much. Well.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
There are two maxims in evolutionary psychology as relating to
mating behavior. One is the opposites attract maxim. The other
one is the birds of a feather flock together maxim,
which I kind of spoke about when I talked about
cultural horm Awfully and overwhelmingly. The research shows that for
long term unions, you increase your chances of a successful
(15:41):
union dramatically if you assort with someone who has similar values,
belief systems, and so on. So if I am if
I meet a beautiful woman with whom I you know,
I'm very attracted to physically in terms of her personality,
but I happen to be very religious minded and she
(16:01):
happens to be a caustic atheist. Well, statistically speaking, it's
unlikely that it's going to work. Yes, love can conquer
some of these obstacles, but life is a game of,
you know, managing statistical possibilities, and I'm certainly reducing my
chances if on this foundational criterion, we are not assorting.
(16:23):
And so always be mindful of the fact that what
matters most is that you share in these foundational values.
If I'm someone who you know very much cares about
truth and freedom for whatever reason, my partner to be doesn't, well,
that's going to cause tension. And so so I talk
in the book about many of these cues that we
(16:43):
can assort. So, for example, one of the things that
my wife and I do well together is we're both playful.
Right now, I may be more of a joxer than
she is, But if she had been someone who's very
sullen and always serious, Probably it couldn't have worked well
because she I wouldn't have been able to bounce my
humor off her, and vice versa. So birds of a
(17:05):
feather truly do flock together.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
So physical hotness is not enough. You're saying it's a
first step.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Probably it is the first step. So I actually have
a quote in the book from one of my former
guests on the show, Charles Murray, a quote controversial political
scientist who co authored the book The Bell Curve and
so on, and he basically said, I don't have the
exact quote in front of me, but it completely resonated
(17:33):
with me. You know, find a spouse, and that person
should be someone that you're sexually attracted to and who's
your best friend. That basically is it.
Speaker 6 (17:42):
Right.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Sexual attraction will take you so far. But if there
isn't a deeper thing, that wanes because you know, we
even know the neuroanatomical stages that you go through. The
butterfly and the pit in your stomach is not going
to last twenty five years into your marriage. Now, I
mean that you won't still be sexually attracted to your partner,
but it goes through different stages. If the person that
(18:06):
I want to have sex with, is also someone that
I really appreciate their company. Well, then I've hit the lottery.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
When I was on your show, I said that sex
is the most important part of a relationship. And I
said to you that it's a controversial thing to say.
I mean, And after I was on your show and
after the clip was posted, several people were like, you're
not serious. I'm one following you, like, people really don't
want to hear that.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
But you know, I stand by it. I think that
you're right.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
It's your best friend who you also want to have
sex with, so otherwise it really doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
So you talk about.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Minimizing future regret by living an authentic life, How do
people live more authentically?
Speaker 5 (18:43):
Let me just give a background to the calculus of regret.
This is actually from one of my former doctoral professors
at my PhD at Cornell. His name is Thomas Gilovich,
and he pioneered the distinction between two types of regret.
Others have talked about this, so there are even prayers
(19:03):
that recognize those two forms of regret, regret due to
action versus regret due to inaction. Regret due to action
is because I did something I now regret having done
that thing. So I cheated on my wife and that
led to my divorce. I really regret that regret due
to inaction, is you know, I regret that I never
pursued my interest in art. I became a pediatrician because
(19:26):
my dad and his dad were pediatricians. But I hate medicine.
I can't stand it now. I wake up at seventy
three and I say, what a wasted life. And so
in that sense, that's what I mean by an authentic life.
I mean authenticity could mean in a personal setting. You know,
people might find you appealing, Carol, because you seem like
a real person, an authentic person, So that certainly is relevant.
(19:48):
But I'm talking more about an existential authenticity, living your
life in a manner that is congruent with your internal interests,
your internal values. If there's an incongruity there, then you're
probably going to regret it later in life. And so
to the best of your abilities if you can. And
that's why, by the way, the maxim, the delphic maxim
(20:09):
from the ancient Greeks Know Thyself, is so powerful because
that's exactly what it's saying. Right, those two words are
saying You're not going to live a happy life if
you don't know yourself, because then there's always going to
be these incongruities that causes you great angst. And so
you know, I often tell my students when they come
and see me, well what should I study? Should what
career I should go into? And I always give them
(20:31):
answers that at first seem as though they're cliche ish,
but they really are not. They stand the test of time,
which is you have to be able to choose a
profession that makes you wake up in the morning, rub
your hands in anticipatory glee, saying I'm so excited about
the day. Don't pursue a career because there are good
job opportunities. That's a perfect recipe to wake up at
(20:52):
fifty five and say I hate being an accountant even
though I make a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
So you live authentically. You have you know, a wife
that you love, you're.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
In a good relationship, you get the death threats from
all the right people.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Do you feel like you've made it?
Speaker 5 (21:07):
What an amazing question. So here it depends on what
you use as the metric of comparison and judging whether
you've made it right.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
So example, If I say, if my cue is have
I made.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
A greater impact as an academic than most academics ever will?
Then boy, have I made it? Okay, If my metric
of comparison is have I ended up in the Promised Land?
In my case it's not necessarily Israel, but it's in
Newport Beach, California, Well.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
Then I haven't made it because.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
I'm still languishing in the frozen tundra of socialist Quebec.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
But I think I'm not sure California is an any
better than the you know that maybe it's not frozen,
but it's still a socialist enough.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
So that's why maybe Sarasota or somewhere in Florida.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
Yeah, that's exactly.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
And there are some opportunities that I'm currently working on
and a professional and personal grand sense short of you know,
not being in the place that i'd like to be,
if only because of the weather and so on, then
I think I have made it. The only thing that
I would perhaps change today is, you know, I never
(22:22):
thought that I could ever envision not being a professor.
It really is in my DNA. But the further I
go in my academic career, there are elements of being
a professor that I don't find as enjoyable at this point,
the administrative stuff, you know, telling Timmy why he received
the B minus in his participation grade, even though right
that's probably not the best use of my time. So
(22:45):
right now, if I had, my ideal situation would be
for me to wake up from morning tonight only be
involved in the process of creating, whether I'm creating online
content or lecturing or writing a book or what interests
me the most in life is knowledge, and so to
the extent that I don't have yet complete freedom to
(23:09):
only create, that might be the only thing where I
say I haven't yet fully made it. I haven't achieved
complete freedom. But overall, yes, I think I've made it.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Doctor Sad, I love talking to you.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I could keep this going forever, but let's end with
your best tip for my listeners on how they can
improve their lives.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Don't get mired in my opic things. Whether you love
or hate Donald Trump or Joe Biden. Those are important issues,
but there are way more important things. Your kids grow
up very fast. Make sure to enjoy every moment. Go
for a walk with your spouse, hug your dog, be playful.
So we often fall into the trap of triggering our
(23:49):
iron In all sorts of ways. Life is very short,
Every moment is precious. Enjoy life. It's truly magical.
Speaker 6 (23:56):
He is Get said.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
His book is The Sad Truth about Happiness Aid Secrets
for leading the Good Life. Check it out, buy it
wherever you buy your books, and listen to his amazing podcast.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I love having you on.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Thank you so much for coming on, and we'll talk
to you soon.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Thank you so much, cheers, thanks so much for joining
us on the Carol Marcoit Show.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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