May 18, 2020 • 31 mins
Since a lot of us are going through transitions right now, we’ve rounded up some of the best TLDNE advice for fresh starts, restarts, changes in direction, or entirely different roadmaps. Tune in to hear Stephanie Pereira, Tyler Thrasher, Dr. Sabriya Stukes, and Jen Gotch share mindsets, strategies, and perspectives that will help you take your next step.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Limit Does Not Exist is a production of I
Heart Radio. Okay, I'm Christina Wallace and I'm Kate Scott Campbell.
We're here to help you follow your curiosity, celebrate your individuality,
(00:20):
and embrace the and not the or, so you can
turn everything you love into a custom built career that's
as unique and dynamic as you are. If you feel
that one path may not be your only path, and
you call yourself a human bend diagram, then you are
in the right place, because when it comes to pursuing
your passions, we believe the limit does not exist. What
(00:45):
do I do now? With all that's going on in
the world. There's a good chance you've asked yourself that lately,
or it's close cousin, where's the restart button? We hear you,
which is why today we're doing something a little different.
We're offering up some of the best TLDNY advice for
fresh starts, restarts, changes in direction, or entirely different road maps.
(01:07):
That's right, a lot of us are going through transitions
right now, and the good news is this podcast is
all about transitions. We've pulled together some of our favorite
advice from recent guests on mindsets and strategies that will
help you get going on the right foot. Inspiration and
brass techs for days. Christina, you know I'm here for that.
So what are we waiting for? Let's jump in, Let's
(01:30):
do it. From episode one oh three. This is Stephanie Pereira,
the director of the New Museum's incubator for people working
at the intersection of art, design and technology. She explains
how she found her way in arts administration after realizing
(01:52):
there was more out there than a cubicle. I talked
to a lot of college kids, and I always impressed
this upon them. I'm like, you know, you're the a
path that life hands you is not a path, it's
just where you happen to be um and when you
start to make choices along that path and how you
make them, Like, the most important thing is that you're
making choices that feel good to you. And so the
(02:13):
thing for me is it wasn't until I found myself
actually in grad school and studying ourts administration and understanding
that there was this whole um sort of business field
related to this world I really cared about that I
started to actually be super intentional and how I moved
through my career, and I at that from that point on,
I've been actually quite on point. But yeah, it was
really just kind of lazy and random up until then.
(02:36):
But I love that realization too, that you're sort of like,
am I lazier? Am I just not connecting with this
thing that's in front of me? And that when you
do stumble on that thing that gets you fired up,
all of a sudden, you're doing the work, You're showing
up and making the choices and it's not hard because
it's exactly what gets you out of bed in the morning. Yeah.
(02:57):
I mean I went from being like a barely passing
anything student to Dean's list, getting straight as every semester. Yeah,
So it's really once I once I found the thing
that was for me, and that was a heat. That's
like a huge lesson for me as someone who marches
to the beat of my own drummer. Um is that
I really did spend a lot of my early you know,
(03:17):
like high school and even the beginning of college, thinking
that I was something was wrong with me. And it
wasn't until I found the thing I cared about and
completely made this one eight because I was applying myself
in a different way, in a way that was true
to me and who I am and how I like
to show up that I was able to be quote
unquote successful. That's so inspiring, it really is. I think
(03:39):
recently I had this great revelation that I hate to
sit at a desk, Like I'm just not made to
sit at desk. I hate them. And the only reason
I realized why I think that I should have because
in school, I you know, got in trouble for sitting
on the floor or for standing up at lunch. And
it was just this like huge lightbulb moment that was like,
oh my god, like there's nothing wrong with me, it
(04:01):
just didn't fit that way right like that, that was it.
And for you to to share that stuff, and he
is so inspiring because you're right, Christina. We so often
call like not the right fit that we often blame
it on things like laziness. Sure, I mean, I think
this is true for anyone who who feels like they
don't fit in into whatever circumstances environment, school, um job
(04:24):
that they're in where they're like, I don't fit, So
it's probably me that's the problem. Yeah, Yeah, when in reality,
I think we have enough data points between the three
of us, and however, many guests we've had on this
show to be like or maybe it's just not the
right fit for you and your work. Should you choose
to accept it is to to do the zig zag
(04:47):
until you find the place that is the right fit.
So I left to go to Chicago for grad school.
I saved for a couple of years, and then I
came back to New York and I came, um, sort
of engaged in a job, and then like literally the
day one, crying in my cubicle, kind of like, wow,
I made a huge mistake. Um. And then but you know,
I'm I'm someone who you know needs a paycheck, and
(05:09):
so I sort of stuck with it. Yeah, So I
stuck with it. Um. And so three months in, it
was New Year's Eve and I was hanging out. It
was you know, classic New York City, New York New
Year's Eves. Or at a moment, I'm like in a
loft and everyone there is like so fascinating and blah
blah blah, and I'm like, New York is amazing. What
(05:30):
am I doing in this cubicle where I cry every day?
And so I gave myself twenty days to figure out
some way to make enough money to like at the time,
I was like years old, and I, you know, I
didn't have any debt, I know, luckily had no credit
card debt. I have no cars, I had no mortgage,
I had no kids. I had nothing really like holding
me back from being a little broke for a while.
(05:51):
And so I gave myself till the I wanted to
give two weeks notice on January fourteen because I wanted
to like start fresh on February one. So I gave
myself the beginning of the month to figure out a
way how do I just like pay rent and feed
myself like the most basic food. Um, And I did it.
And I have to say I spent the next eighteen
months doing the most random weird stuff. I mean, I
(06:13):
volunteered on a festival. I was like an educator at
the New Museum where I now work, which is really funny. Um.
I worked in public schools. I was a researcher, I
was a grant editor. I did all this stuff, and
it was all in service of figuring out, you know,
a New York is again. It's amazing, how do I
make the most of my time here and not just
like drudge dudge through some job that makes me cry,
(06:35):
but also be like, what do I want to be?
How do I want to show up? What is my profession?
I had been doing this work. I did a complete
one eight in my career. I'd become this accidental professional
in like arts education in public school and I was
really good at it, and I you know, I was
speaking at conferences, I was co authoring papers. It was happening.
I was on this path, and I'm like, I don't
(06:55):
want to work in public schools. I mean, I think
they're important, but it's not for me, so I you know,
but eighteen months in and then it really it took
a year and a half of being poor and eating
homemade taco is not fancy five dollars until I've really
found the thing that was calling to me and was
able to read that myself for you to say like,
I'm just going to have this exploration phase, in this
(07:17):
fact finding phase. You know, I think so much of
the time we feel like, oh if I don't have
it figured out again, going back to what we were
just saying, I'm behind, something's wrong with me. I don't
know what to do. So I've just got to keep
driving forward in this kind of, you know, mildly unhappy,
frustrated state, rather than say, I'm going to give myself
this block of time and I'm going to use it
(07:38):
in this specific way, and I'm going to eat, by
the way, great food choice, some homemade tacos and really
pare down. Then you're like building in this structure that
I think in the big wash of life can feel
really hard to find when you're uncertain and remembering like
two data points does not equal a line, right. I
think I struggle with this personally a lot, which is
(08:00):
if I make this choice and I'm going off in
that direction, is that the new future for myself? Like
is that forever? And you're like, it's just two data
points or maybe three, or maybe it's a line for
eighteen months, and then you're going to zigzag again. Right.
It's not like, oh my gosh, I made this choice
and now I am off on this other path and
(08:22):
I can never change it again. Right. It's like the
seasons I'm gonna do this for a while, I'm gonna
learn what I can, and it's going to give me
the things that I don't know, and that will tell
me what to do next. I mean I do this now.
In my full time job, I write down what are
the five things I want to get done and not
get Rather than getting caught up in the day to day,
(08:43):
I'll just write like, in the next six months, I
want to do these five things, and you know, every
once in a while just making sure I'm checking those
five things off, meaning that like I'm not getting sucked
into the sitting at my desk or you know, the
drudgery of checking my email. We hear people talk about
this all the time, how your your job or your
career became almost like the administrative tasks of executing on
(09:03):
your job rather than the thing you care about. Actually,
last year I was at a festival and they had
this thing where you could send your post self a
postcard one year in the future. And I just got
my my one year later postcard, and it was so
good because it was like Stephanie knowing you, um, you've
either done a lot and in the past year and
you're not patting yourself on the back, or you're totally
(09:24):
upset that you haven't done all the things you want
to do and don't worry, you probably worked really hard.
It was like such The best note from the path
and it was crazy about the note was that I
actually did do a lot in last year, and I
feel like I did congratulate myself. Where so I also
grew so much in that I have a different person
than I was a year ago, and that I thought
(09:44):
that I would. That's fantastic treated myself. Well, well, kudos
to you. I'm glad to hear on both of those counts. Yeah,
I highly recommend setting yourself the postcard one year in
the Future activity from episode one seventeen, artist and chemist
(10:15):
Tyler Thrasher fills us in on how he shifted from
animation to becoming a full time artist with just a
three month runway, based on a strategy that earned him
an f in school. He also opens our eyes to
loosening our grip on the importance of location in what
you do. I was going to school for animation. I
was miserable. I just didn't want to spend my time
(10:35):
working on school projects I know no one would care
about after I graduated, so I was like, I have
to fill my time with other things. So I would
spend every weekend hiking. I went to school in Springfeld, Missouri,
so there's a lot of really good hiking. Eventually that
led to me exploring a lot of cars topography. It
ended with me inside of caves. Like pretty quickly, I
would spend every week and crawling through a cave, exploring caves,
(10:58):
mapping out caves. Missouri is called the Cave State. Did
not know that, neither did I. There was a cave
within like a two mile radius of me at any
point when I was in Springfield, Missouri, and just this
odd thing that I was doing outside of school, like caving.
I was very aware that I was doing something most
people in Springfield were not doing, and I felt this
(11:18):
disconnect from the rest of the world. But I was
still basking in fascination and curiosity while I was underground
miles away from like other people. This separation kind of
forced me to fall in love with nature and pull
away from things like school and other people that were
kind of distracting me or making me miserable. And I thought,
I got to bring this into my artistic practice. I
(11:40):
don't know how, but this is fueling me, like, this
is fueling this fire inside of me that I didn't
know I was there. And so I started working gyms
and minerals into my illustrations and to my animations have
a slight chemistry background, and I thought, what if I
just grow crystals? And that wasn't enough. I was like,
I've seen that thousand times. What haven't I seen? So
I went through the list, and crystals on insects was
(12:02):
one of the things that I just couldn't creatively like
picture in my head. And if I couldn't picture it
in my head and I couldn't find it on Google,
then I was like, this thing has to happen. I
have to make this. So I did, and it went
viral online like pretty quick. I would believe that because
crystals on insects. I don't even know where to start
with that. I mean, obviously we've seen your work, it's beautiful.
(12:24):
I would never in a million years thought crystals insects.
Let's see what happened. I mean, Tyler, were you doing
a kind of nature association game where you had to
running lists and you were like, let me pick, let
me pick crystals and something from this list, Like how
did you How did those two things intersect for you?
(12:44):
While I was spending time hiking, I was looking at
a lot of insects and I was approaching life like
a kid for the first time in a long time. Everything,
look at it, observe it, and I was like, adults,
just do not do this anymore. I was really into
in sex, so I was drawing them. And then I
was like, man, I'm really into this geometry and I'm
finding my roots back in science. So I was like geometry,
(13:07):
nature equals crystals. So I had two different schools of
science that I was working into my bringing into my
artistic practice. Falling asleep, I was like, you know what,
I have a lot of things I love doing. I
need to save some time, and why don't I just
start combining some of my fascinations. I've always had a
knack of, like loving doing a bunch of different things,
but there's not enough time. So I've made a habit
(13:29):
of combining my different fascinations to kind of cut my
time in half. So I was like, crystals, insects, drawing art.
Maybe if I just lump art and insects and crystals altogether,
I could say myself time on my fascination. That's incredible.
Being able to be a full time artist and not
having a day job to support you. How do you
(13:51):
make that work, like, let's get real. Yeah yeah. At first,
it was very much out of my control. Right. I
was three months from graduating and I started when one
of my professors was asking us to make a four
or five year plan, and I said, here's my five
year plan. I'm not animating. I'm going to be a
(14:11):
self employed artist. I got an f on that project.
I detailed my strategy, and my professors like this just
sounds more hopeful than anything, and I was like exactly.
That was another stage of doubt. That was like okay, well,
good luck with that, and I was like thanks, um, yeah,
we'll see that. Crystal work went viral about three months
(14:34):
before graduating, and right as I was graduating, people were
wanting to buy it. I didn't know what I was
gonna do. I thought I'd have to get a day
job or do something. And I was like, I'll move
back to Tulsa. My wife was like, Tulsa's up and coming,
like you should come back, so I did. The cost
of living is very cheap and Tulsa, so I had
the sort of cushion to explore whether or not I
could sell this crystal stuff. I would sell some pieces,
(14:56):
those people would share their pieces, and then there people
would be like, oh my gosh, I have to have this.
And so I watched this bubble expand and expand, and
before I knew it, I was traveling from my work.
I was doing online drops, holiday sales. I was struggling
to figure out how to manage all this while I
had hundreds of people, thousands of people clamoring for some
of my work. And I was like, I was not
(15:17):
taught how to handle this in school, and I had
to do. I had to mess up a lot of times.
I had to take a lot of notes and jump
a lot of hurdles to land where I am now,
where this has been my full time job. I've learned
what works. I've learned that people will wait in line
for two hours to buy a piece from me, which
is insane. I cannot comprehend that. That's incredible. Yeah, it's crazy.
(15:39):
And I've also learned people don't want to support my art,
but people want to support what I'm saying. And I
believe in what I'm saying, and I believe in how
I live creatively and how I create, and a lot
of other people turns out look up to that, and
so people started supporting that, and I just realized, I
guess I'm doing something right. I want to know what
it's like to be a working artist in Tulsa. I
(16:01):
am not from Oklahoma. I did grow up in the Midwest,
but I would not have thought of Tulsa as a
creative hotbed. What is the creative community like there. Do
you find it's easier to be a working artist where
you you know, have a lower cost of living and
are in a smaller you know, metropolitan area or is
(16:23):
it harder because you're not, you know, on the coasts
in these kind of big visual art hubs. Oh man,
we live in a time creatively where your location does
not matter. You don't have to live on the coast
to be successful at creating art. You don't need to
be surrounded by big galleries, and you don't need to
be surrounded by big artists to be successful at creating
(16:44):
at all. My work took off in Springfield, Missouri, the
like middle of the country and these small cities. I
think having the Internet, having social media and learning how
to navigate that with your art is the only tool
you need. I don't know, you could be an amazingly
successful artist like Anchorage, Alaska, or anywhere in Greenland. It
doesn't matter as long as you know how to reach
(17:05):
people who would like your work online. With that being said,
I do have friends. I've talked about this with another
artist that you know. They tell me like, how are
you like a full time self employed artist? You know,
I live in l A And I'm paying four thousand
dollars a month from my like studio apartment. And I'm like, well,
there's your number one problem when you're paying the whole
salary of every year to live in like nothing. So
(17:29):
living in a place with the low cost of living
that's good for anybody, but it works best for art
because you don't have to rely on your location to
make and sell art at all. If anyone tells you otherwise,
they're not looking at some of the biggest, most successful
artists on social media, who most of them make their
income on selling work online. That is just a simple
(17:51):
fact your location amatic. From episode one oh eight, microbiologist
(18:14):
and educator Dr Sabria Stukes shares how she got herself
out of a rut and discovered a new path after
finishing her PhD. While a radical sabbatical may not work
for everyone, she has some great tips on how to
capture some of the benefits in a lighter touchway. I
actually had a really challenging time transitioning out of graduate school.
(18:36):
I think a lot of things came to an end
for me as it pertained to how I saw myself
as a person in the world. After I graduated with
a PhD. My partner at the time decided that our
five year relationship was not something he felt like continuing.
I would say so many words, but also maybe lack
(18:58):
of words. Um. Not only did like the idea of
me being a scientist kind of end, but then this
very long relationship ended. I had already moved out of
my apartment and like moved some stuff into his apartment,
so I also didn't have an apartment, and I'm completely unmoored,
super unmoored, and all I have is like this piece
(19:18):
of paper that says I have a degree in bimedical sciences,
and so to hang it out exactly and and um, yeah,
it was just really challenging because for me, as a Capricorn,
(19:39):
you know, I plan things. I like to know what
the next step will look like, even if I don't
know all the steps, And so for the first time
in my life, I had zero plans. You know, what
do you do when you don't have a plan. You
book a flight to Seattle, UM, and then you like
have a two and a half week road trip down
(20:01):
the West coast, stopping kind of wherever you want and
hoping that by the end, when you drop off the
rental car and Palm Springs, you will have some answers.
I had zero answers. I had a very dusty car.
At the end of that, I just started telling people.
A friend of mine used the phrase radical sabbatical, UM,
(20:23):
so that's kind of what I started telling people, and interestingly,
people really connected with that. I was really fortunate enough too,
when I was telling people that I was doing this,
and I said, hey, I'm you know, I'm looking for work.
I really don't know what that looks like. Here's what
I'm good at, or here's what I think I'm good at.
Two friends separately reached out to me and said, hey,
(20:44):
you know, there might be these kind of three month
positions that we think you could be good at. Why
don't you take them? Weirdly, I went from having zero
jobs to having to full time jobs, and then I
also decided to take a part time job with the
science startup that was based on the West Coast, because
I was like, well, like there's a time difference, so
(21:05):
I can figure this out. And it was not a
very good decision, one because I was not doing good
at either of the jobs. And two I was not
doing a good job at taking care of myself, almost
to the point where my parents came to visit me
and they said that if I didn't get my act together,
I would have to move home. It was how old
(21:27):
were you at this point, um, like thirty three, So
they're they're issuing the ultimatum even at thirty three, because
you are clearly in a place that says I'm not
making good decisions. Yeah. I think that's an accurate summation
of everything that was going on. I understand the instinct
(21:49):
of like having this total blank canvas, right, like this
groundlessness and this wipe out too then like fill it
with opportunity, especially when that comes in, it's but of
almost like physics, right, it's empty, and then you have
this flood coming in, and then it sounds like what
you're saying is you went, whoa too much flood? Yeah?
And I think it really also was like I have
(22:11):
to afford to live, you know, I need to pay
my rent. I had kind of made an enormous dent
in my savings just by not working and being on
the West Coast and driving wherever I wanted, and you know,
ordering broom service when I wanted, and and I think
I just wasn't such a state of I mean, I
(22:31):
think it was really utter sadness that the only thing
I could really look towards was being quote unquote busy.
I really started leaning into therapy, so I um around
that time, I was doing group therapy, which was phenomenal
for me, just to get grounded again. You know, I
(22:51):
was exercising all the time, I was going out with
my friends all the time. I was making some decisions
that I look back on now. And and so it
was around this time too that that it was when
I got the job offer, and I had a gut
feeling that saying no in that moment was the right
thing to do, even though it was very scary because
(23:12):
this was like a full time job with health insurance. Again,
I just didn't want to put myself in a situation
where I was letting not just myself down, but someone
who was relying on me to do something. And so
what kind of advice would you give to listeners who say,
you know, I need a radical sabbradical, I need some space.
(23:35):
I recognize that maybe I'm making the wrong decisions, or
I'm burnt out, or this doesn't fit me anymore. But
I can't take three months off. How could they maybe
get a flavor for that space without having the safety
net or even the ability to, you know, have other
(23:58):
people not depend on you for a period of time.
I think for me, the thing that I valued the
most was just the quiet moments that I allowed myself
to have, whether they were a ten twenty minutes to
really say, okay, well what is like can I identify
what I'm really struggling with? UM? I know that there's
(24:18):
a conversation around affordable therapy for all UM, and I
think it's so important that, however you define therapy, whether
that's talking to someone a professional, talking to a friend,
going for bike ride, like trying to carve out, you know,
small moments for yourself to to really identify, you know, well,
(24:39):
what is causing my anxiety? What is you know, what
am I really struggling with? Really helped me and so
I know that, as you said, and as I've said,
not everyone can just press like a pause button on
their life. Because even when I did, like it was
still quite stressful because I was still like, well, am
I going to pay for the stuff? Or like, you
know what, am I I still have to find a
(25:00):
job I need. I didn't have health insurance, And so
I know that there are people that have to take
care of their families, have to take care of children,
and so it can be really hard. But I think
just learning the language of how to verbalize what is
really going on when you are having these moments of
kind of feeling overwhelmed of needing help. It took me
(25:22):
so long to learn how to ask for help and
not just say I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. Allowing
people to take care of me, I think was really
a huge shift for me um during this time in
my life. And so I would say that, you know,
there are obviously people who are approaching burnout and still
have to go to work. Do they have relationships with
(25:43):
their bosses or other employees where they can say, like
I need to take half a day, I just need
to recharge. Are their friends that on the weekends, they
can say, look, I just can you babysit? Or can
you watch my kid? Can you help out? Like I'm
financially strapped right now, So to really allow the compassion
that I'm sure like people's friends have for these situations,
(26:05):
to really sit down and say, you know, how can
I work with the people that I have in my
life in a way that is productive. It also sounds
like you really made this, Like you said, whether or
not it felt like a conscious decision, right, but you
made this choice to really find moments of slowing down,
(26:27):
to stop this full on, busy speed momentum that it's
so easy to get into. I know I myself have
many times, you know, to just find like even pockets
of stillness, whether that looks like a group therapy session
every week, you know, once a week or once every
other week or whatever. And also I love the questions
(26:49):
that you started asking yourself to really try to get
to the heart of what was really going on. Yeah,
And I think the other thing too is you know,
as you were saying that, I was kind of like,
you know, running through a few scenarios in my mind.
It really was just telling people that I wasn't Okay,
that's so hard, I know, but I like, I am
(27:11):
not good at that statement. Well, I think for me,
it also boiled down to the fact that even if
I was saying I was okay, I didn't look okay.
It took work. I mean, like it was actual mental
emotional work to say to my friends like, I know
you see this happening, and I know I don't know
(27:31):
how to ask for help, but I know that I
need it. And so it wasn't just the work of
saying that, but then of not being dismissive of my
friends when they offered the help because I didn't know
what it looked like, you know, I was just like,
you know, for so long, I was like, oh, I'm fine,
I'm fine, I'm fine. I love that. I think you
made such crucial points there that it's both a skill
(27:54):
to figure out how to ask for help and to
be able to do that and then be to also
than receive that help. But those are things that don't
come naturally too many of us at all. And those
are not small things either, you know. I think Christina,
you and I have talked about this. I'm I'm increasingly
aware of how often I present as everything's okay whenever
(28:16):
thing's not. And that's not even intentional, you know. I
Mean you could say maybe it is on a subconscious level,
but that's often what it is is just this like
it's in my my upbringing my DNA to just like
stiff upper lip, you know. And then I wonder why
people aren't checking in on me, because I don't think
they have to, you know, Christina, I know that we've
(28:44):
already had these conversations with our guests, and we've listened
to them many times in post production, but I swear
to you it was like hearing their advice for the
first time. With so many people going through transitions right now,
us included, it's so helpful and reassuring to hear their
perspectives again. Absolutely, It's like, no matter how many of
(29:06):
these transitions I've had in my zig Zag career, they
never get more comfortable, you know, there's always that little
lump of fear in my chest that makes me worry
I'll never figure this out and everything will come crashing down.
And of course, with our world in transition, it also
feels like that. But to the power of ten yep.
(29:28):
But you know, remembering that all we can really do
is put in the work, take it one day at
a time, and continue to find inspiration through other voices
and people who have been through it. All of that,
I think really helps to shake off some of that
fear and just keep us moving forward a little bit
(29:49):
at a time. It's not enough to get rid of
all of the fear, but but a little bit of
just enough that it doesn't weigh me down exactly. So,
are you going through a transition right now? Tell us
about it. We love hearing from you. You can reach
us on Twitter or Instagram at t l d n
E pod, or you can email us at hello at
t ld n E podcast dot com, or you can
(30:11):
leave us a voicemail at eight three three Hi t
l d n E. That's eight three three five three
six three ven dial oh three will link to the
full episodes for each of these clips in our show notes,
plus some resources we've relied on to get through transitions.
You can find all of those at t L d
n E podcast dot com slash one. Thanks so much
(30:42):
to our producer Maya Coole and to you for tuning in.
As always, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts.
If you like what you heard. It really helps us
get the word out to fellow human ven diagrams. Until
next time, Remember, the Limit does not exit. Best The
(31:04):
Limit does not Exist is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Yeah
The Limit Does Not Exist is a production of I
Heart Radio. Okay, I'm Christina Wallace and I'm Kate Scott Campbell.
We're here to help you follow your curiosity, celebrate your individuality,
(00:20):
and embrace the and not the or, so you can
turn everything you love into a custom built career that's
as unique and dynamic as you are. If you feel
that one path may not be your only path, and
you call yourself a human bend diagram, then you are
in the right place, because when it comes to pursuing
your passions, we believe the limit does not exist. What
(00:45):
do I do now? With all that's going on in
the world. There's a good chance you've asked yourself that lately,
or it's close cousin, where's the restart button? We hear you,
which is why today we're doing something a little different.
We're offering up some of the best TLDNY advice for
fresh starts, restarts, changes in direction, or entirely different road maps.
(01:07):
That's right, a lot of us are going through transitions
right now, and the good news is this podcast is
all about transitions. We've pulled together some of our favorite
advice from recent guests on mindsets and strategies that will
help you get going on the right foot. Inspiration and
brass techs for days. Christina, you know I'm here for that.
So what are we waiting for? Let's jump in, Let's
(01:30):
do it. From episode one oh three. This is Stephanie Pereira,
the director of the New Museum's incubator for people working
at the intersection of art, design and technology. She explains
how she found her way in arts administration after realizing
(01:52):
there was more out there than a cubicle. I talked
to a lot of college kids, and I always impressed
this upon them. I'm like, you know, you're the a
path that life hands you is not a path, it's
just where you happen to be um and when you
start to make choices along that path and how you
make them, Like, the most important thing is that you're
making choices that feel good to you. And so the
(02:13):
thing for me is it wasn't until I found myself
actually in grad school and studying ourts administration and understanding
that there was this whole um sort of business field
related to this world I really cared about that I
started to actually be super intentional and how I moved
through my career, and I at that from that point on,
I've been actually quite on point. But yeah, it was
really just kind of lazy and random up until then.
(02:36):
But I love that realization too, that you're sort of like,
am I lazier? Am I just not connecting with this
thing that's in front of me? And that when you
do stumble on that thing that gets you fired up,
all of a sudden, you're doing the work, You're showing
up and making the choices and it's not hard because
it's exactly what gets you out of bed in the morning. Yeah.
(02:57):
I mean I went from being like a barely passing
anything student to Dean's list, getting straight as every semester. Yeah,
So it's really once I once I found the thing
that was for me, and that was a heat. That's
like a huge lesson for me as someone who marches
to the beat of my own drummer. Um is that
I really did spend a lot of my early you know,
(03:17):
like high school and even the beginning of college, thinking
that I was something was wrong with me. And it
wasn't until I found the thing I cared about and
completely made this one eight because I was applying myself
in a different way, in a way that was true
to me and who I am and how I like
to show up that I was able to be quote
unquote successful. That's so inspiring, it really is. I think
(03:39):
recently I had this great revelation that I hate to
sit at a desk, Like I'm just not made to
sit at desk. I hate them. And the only reason
I realized why I think that I should have because
in school, I you know, got in trouble for sitting
on the floor or for standing up at lunch. And
it was just this like huge lightbulb moment that was like,
oh my god, like there's nothing wrong with me, it
(04:01):
just didn't fit that way right like that, that was it.
And for you to to share that stuff, and he
is so inspiring because you're right, Christina. We so often
call like not the right fit that we often blame
it on things like laziness. Sure, I mean, I think
this is true for anyone who who feels like they
don't fit in into whatever circumstances environment, school, um job
(04:24):
that they're in where they're like, I don't fit, So
it's probably me that's the problem. Yeah, Yeah, when in reality,
I think we have enough data points between the three
of us, and however, many guests we've had on this
show to be like or maybe it's just not the
right fit for you and your work. Should you choose
to accept it is to to do the zig zag
(04:47):
until you find the place that is the right fit.
So I left to go to Chicago for grad school.
I saved for a couple of years, and then I
came back to New York and I came, um, sort
of engaged in a job, and then like literally the
day one, crying in my cubicle, kind of like, wow,
I made a huge mistake. Um. And then but you know,
I'm I'm someone who you know needs a paycheck, and
(05:09):
so I sort of stuck with it. Yeah, So I
stuck with it. Um. And so three months in, it
was New Year's Eve and I was hanging out. It
was you know, classic New York City, New York New
Year's Eves. Or at a moment, I'm like in a
loft and everyone there is like so fascinating and blah
blah blah, and I'm like, New York is amazing. What
(05:30):
am I doing in this cubicle where I cry every day?
And so I gave myself twenty days to figure out
some way to make enough money to like at the time,
I was like years old, and I, you know, I
didn't have any debt, I know, luckily had no credit
card debt. I have no cars, I had no mortgage,
I had no kids. I had nothing really like holding
me back from being a little broke for a while.
(05:51):
And so I gave myself till the I wanted to
give two weeks notice on January fourteen because I wanted
to like start fresh on February one. So I gave
myself the beginning of the month to figure out a
way how do I just like pay rent and feed
myself like the most basic food. Um, And I did it.
And I have to say I spent the next eighteen
months doing the most random weird stuff. I mean, I
(06:13):
volunteered on a festival. I was like an educator at
the New Museum where I now work, which is really funny. Um.
I worked in public schools. I was a researcher, I
was a grant editor. I did all this stuff, and
it was all in service of figuring out, you know,
a New York is again. It's amazing, how do I
make the most of my time here and not just
like drudge dudge through some job that makes me cry,
(06:35):
but also be like, what do I want to be?
How do I want to show up? What is my profession?
I had been doing this work. I did a complete
one eight in my career. I'd become this accidental professional
in like arts education in public school and I was
really good at it, and I you know, I was
speaking at conferences, I was co authoring papers. It was happening.
I was on this path, and I'm like, I don't
(06:55):
want to work in public schools. I mean, I think
they're important, but it's not for me, so I you know,
but eighteen months in and then it really it took
a year and a half of being poor and eating
homemade taco is not fancy five dollars until I've really
found the thing that was calling to me and was
able to read that myself for you to say like,
I'm just going to have this exploration phase, in this
(07:17):
fact finding phase. You know, I think so much of
the time we feel like, oh if I don't have
it figured out again, going back to what we were
just saying, I'm behind, something's wrong with me. I don't
know what to do. So I've just got to keep
driving forward in this kind of, you know, mildly unhappy,
frustrated state, rather than say, I'm going to give myself
this block of time and I'm going to use it
(07:38):
in this specific way, and I'm going to eat, by
the way, great food choice, some homemade tacos and really
pare down. Then you're like building in this structure that
I think in the big wash of life can feel
really hard to find when you're uncertain and remembering like
two data points does not equal a line, right. I
think I struggle with this personally a lot, which is
(08:00):
if I make this choice and I'm going off in
that direction, is that the new future for myself? Like
is that forever? And you're like, it's just two data
points or maybe three, or maybe it's a line for
eighteen months, and then you're going to zigzag again. Right.
It's not like, oh my gosh, I made this choice
and now I am off on this other path and
(08:22):
I can never change it again. Right. It's like the
seasons I'm gonna do this for a while, I'm gonna
learn what I can, and it's going to give me
the things that I don't know, and that will tell
me what to do next. I mean I do this now.
In my full time job, I write down what are
the five things I want to get done and not
get Rather than getting caught up in the day to day,
(08:43):
I'll just write like, in the next six months, I
want to do these five things, and you know, every
once in a while just making sure I'm checking those
five things off, meaning that like I'm not getting sucked
into the sitting at my desk or you know, the
drudgery of checking my email. We hear people talk about
this all the time, how your your job or your
career became almost like the administrative tasks of executing on
(09:03):
your job rather than the thing you care about. Actually,
last year I was at a festival and they had
this thing where you could send your post self a
postcard one year in the future. And I just got
my my one year later postcard, and it was so
good because it was like Stephanie knowing you, um, you've
either done a lot and in the past year and
you're not patting yourself on the back, or you're totally
(09:24):
upset that you haven't done all the things you want
to do and don't worry, you probably worked really hard.
It was like such The best note from the path
and it was crazy about the note was that I
actually did do a lot in last year, and I
feel like I did congratulate myself. Where so I also
grew so much in that I have a different person
than I was a year ago, and that I thought
(09:44):
that I would. That's fantastic treated myself. Well, well, kudos
to you. I'm glad to hear on both of those counts. Yeah,
I highly recommend setting yourself the postcard one year in
the Future activity from episode one seventeen, artist and chemist
(10:15):
Tyler Thrasher fills us in on how he shifted from
animation to becoming a full time artist with just a
three month runway, based on a strategy that earned him
an f in school. He also opens our eyes to
loosening our grip on the importance of location in what
you do. I was going to school for animation. I
was miserable. I just didn't want to spend my time
(10:35):
working on school projects I know no one would care
about after I graduated, so I was like, I have
to fill my time with other things. So I would
spend every weekend hiking. I went to school in Springfeld, Missouri,
so there's a lot of really good hiking. Eventually that
led to me exploring a lot of cars topography. It
ended with me inside of caves. Like pretty quickly, I
would spend every week and crawling through a cave, exploring caves,
(10:58):
mapping out caves. Missouri is called the Cave State. Did
not know that, neither did I. There was a cave
within like a two mile radius of me at any
point when I was in Springfield, Missouri, and just this
odd thing that I was doing outside of school, like caving.
I was very aware that I was doing something most
people in Springfield were not doing, and I felt this
(11:18):
disconnect from the rest of the world. But I was
still basking in fascination and curiosity while I was underground
miles away from like other people. This separation kind of
forced me to fall in love with nature and pull
away from things like school and other people that were
kind of distracting me or making me miserable. And I thought,
I got to bring this into my artistic practice. I
(11:40):
don't know how, but this is fueling me, like, this
is fueling this fire inside of me that I didn't
know I was there. And so I started working gyms
and minerals into my illustrations and to my animations have
a slight chemistry background, and I thought, what if I
just grow crystals? And that wasn't enough. I was like,
I've seen that thousand times. What haven't I seen? So
I went through the list, and crystals on insects was
(12:02):
one of the things that I just couldn't creatively like
picture in my head. And if I couldn't picture it
in my head and I couldn't find it on Google,
then I was like, this thing has to happen. I
have to make this. So I did, and it went
viral online like pretty quick. I would believe that because
crystals on insects. I don't even know where to start
with that. I mean, obviously we've seen your work, it's beautiful.
(12:24):
I would never in a million years thought crystals insects.
Let's see what happened. I mean, Tyler, were you doing
a kind of nature association game where you had to
running lists and you were like, let me pick, let
me pick crystals and something from this list, Like how
did you How did those two things intersect for you?
(12:44):
While I was spending time hiking, I was looking at
a lot of insects and I was approaching life like
a kid for the first time in a long time. Everything,
look at it, observe it, and I was like, adults,
just do not do this anymore. I was really into
in sex, so I was drawing them. And then I
was like, man, I'm really into this geometry and I'm
finding my roots back in science. So I was like geometry,
(13:07):
nature equals crystals. So I had two different schools of
science that I was working into my bringing into my
artistic practice. Falling asleep, I was like, you know what,
I have a lot of things I love doing. I
need to save some time, and why don't I just
start combining some of my fascinations. I've always had a
knack of, like loving doing a bunch of different things,
but there's not enough time. So I've made a habit
(13:29):
of combining my different fascinations to kind of cut my
time in half. So I was like, crystals, insects, drawing art.
Maybe if I just lump art and insects and crystals altogether,
I could say myself time on my fascination. That's incredible.
Being able to be a full time artist and not
having a day job to support you. How do you
(13:51):
make that work, like, let's get real. Yeah yeah. At first,
it was very much out of my control. Right. I
was three months from graduating and I started when one
of my professors was asking us to make a four
or five year plan, and I said, here's my five
year plan. I'm not animating. I'm going to be a
(14:11):
self employed artist. I got an f on that project.
I detailed my strategy, and my professors like this just
sounds more hopeful than anything, and I was like exactly.
That was another stage of doubt. That was like okay, well,
good luck with that, and I was like thanks, um, yeah,
we'll see that. Crystal work went viral about three months
(14:34):
before graduating, and right as I was graduating, people were
wanting to buy it. I didn't know what I was
gonna do. I thought I'd have to get a day
job or do something. And I was like, I'll move
back to Tulsa. My wife was like, Tulsa's up and coming,
like you should come back, so I did. The cost
of living is very cheap and Tulsa, so I had
the sort of cushion to explore whether or not I
could sell this crystal stuff. I would sell some pieces,
(14:56):
those people would share their pieces, and then there people
would be like, oh my gosh, I have to have this.
And so I watched this bubble expand and expand, and
before I knew it, I was traveling from my work.
I was doing online drops, holiday sales. I was struggling
to figure out how to manage all this while I
had hundreds of people, thousands of people clamoring for some
of my work. And I was like, I was not
(15:17):
taught how to handle this in school, and I had
to do. I had to mess up a lot of times.
I had to take a lot of notes and jump
a lot of hurdles to land where I am now,
where this has been my full time job. I've learned
what works. I've learned that people will wait in line
for two hours to buy a piece from me, which
is insane. I cannot comprehend that. That's incredible. Yeah, it's crazy.
(15:39):
And I've also learned people don't want to support my art,
but people want to support what I'm saying. And I
believe in what I'm saying, and I believe in how
I live creatively and how I create, and a lot
of other people turns out look up to that, and
so people started supporting that, and I just realized, I
guess I'm doing something right. I want to know what
it's like to be a working artist in Tulsa. I
(16:01):
am not from Oklahoma. I did grow up in the Midwest,
but I would not have thought of Tulsa as a
creative hotbed. What is the creative community like there. Do
you find it's easier to be a working artist where
you you know, have a lower cost of living and
are in a smaller you know, metropolitan area or is
(16:23):
it harder because you're not, you know, on the coasts
in these kind of big visual art hubs. Oh man,
we live in a time creatively where your location does
not matter. You don't have to live on the coast
to be successful at creating art. You don't need to
be surrounded by big galleries, and you don't need to
be surrounded by big artists to be successful at creating
(16:44):
at all. My work took off in Springfield, Missouri, the
like middle of the country and these small cities. I
think having the Internet, having social media and learning how
to navigate that with your art is the only tool
you need. I don't know, you could be an amazingly
successful artist like Anchorage, Alaska, or anywhere in Greenland. It
doesn't matter as long as you know how to reach
(17:05):
people who would like your work online. With that being said,
I do have friends. I've talked about this with another
artist that you know. They tell me like, how are
you like a full time self employed artist? You know,
I live in l A And I'm paying four thousand
dollars a month from my like studio apartment. And I'm like, well,
there's your number one problem when you're paying the whole
salary of every year to live in like nothing. So
(17:29):
living in a place with the low cost of living
that's good for anybody, but it works best for art
because you don't have to rely on your location to
make and sell art at all. If anyone tells you otherwise,
they're not looking at some of the biggest, most successful
artists on social media, who most of them make their
income on selling work online. That is just a simple
(17:51):
fact your location amatic. From episode one oh eight, microbiologist
(18:14):
and educator Dr Sabria Stukes shares how she got herself
out of a rut and discovered a new path after
finishing her PhD. While a radical sabbatical may not work
for everyone, she has some great tips on how to
capture some of the benefits in a lighter touchway. I
actually had a really challenging time transitioning out of graduate school.
(18:36):
I think a lot of things came to an end
for me as it pertained to how I saw myself
as a person in the world. After I graduated with
a PhD. My partner at the time decided that our
five year relationship was not something he felt like continuing.
I would say so many words, but also maybe lack
(18:58):
of words. Um. Not only did like the idea of
me being a scientist kind of end, but then this
very long relationship ended. I had already moved out of
my apartment and like moved some stuff into his apartment,
so I also didn't have an apartment, and I'm completely unmoored,
super unmoored, and all I have is like this piece
(19:18):
of paper that says I have a degree in bimedical sciences,
and so to hang it out exactly and and um, yeah,
it was just really challenging because for me, as a Capricorn,
(19:39):
you know, I plan things. I like to know what
the next step will look like, even if I don't
know all the steps, And so for the first time
in my life, I had zero plans. You know, what
do you do when you don't have a plan. You
book a flight to Seattle, UM, and then you like
have a two and a half week road trip down
(20:01):
the West coast, stopping kind of wherever you want and
hoping that by the end, when you drop off the
rental car and Palm Springs, you will have some answers.
I had zero answers. I had a very dusty car.
At the end of that, I just started telling people.
A friend of mine used the phrase radical sabbatical, UM,
(20:23):
so that's kind of what I started telling people, and interestingly,
people really connected with that. I was really fortunate enough too,
when I was telling people that I was doing this,
and I said, hey, I'm you know, I'm looking for work.
I really don't know what that looks like. Here's what
I'm good at, or here's what I think I'm good at.
Two friends separately reached out to me and said, hey,
(20:44):
you know, there might be these kind of three month
positions that we think you could be good at. Why
don't you take them? Weirdly, I went from having zero
jobs to having to full time jobs, and then I
also decided to take a part time job with the
science startup that was based on the West Coast, because
I was like, well, like there's a time difference, so
(21:05):
I can figure this out. And it was not a
very good decision, one because I was not doing good
at either of the jobs. And two I was not
doing a good job at taking care of myself, almost
to the point where my parents came to visit me
and they said that if I didn't get my act together,
I would have to move home. It was how old
(21:27):
were you at this point, um, like thirty three, So
they're they're issuing the ultimatum even at thirty three, because
you are clearly in a place that says I'm not
making good decisions. Yeah. I think that's an accurate summation
of everything that was going on. I understand the instinct
(21:49):
of like having this total blank canvas, right, like this
groundlessness and this wipe out too then like fill it
with opportunity, especially when that comes in, it's but of
almost like physics, right, it's empty, and then you have
this flood coming in, and then it sounds like what
you're saying is you went, whoa too much flood? Yeah?
And I think it really also was like I have
(22:11):
to afford to live, you know, I need to pay
my rent. I had kind of made an enormous dent
in my savings just by not working and being on
the West Coast and driving wherever I wanted, and you know,
ordering broom service when I wanted, and and I think
I just wasn't such a state of I mean, I
(22:31):
think it was really utter sadness that the only thing
I could really look towards was being quote unquote busy.
I really started leaning into therapy, so I um around
that time, I was doing group therapy, which was phenomenal
for me, just to get grounded again. You know, I
(22:51):
was exercising all the time, I was going out with
my friends all the time. I was making some decisions
that I look back on now. And and so it
was around this time too that that it was when
I got the job offer, and I had a gut
feeling that saying no in that moment was the right
thing to do, even though it was very scary because
(23:12):
this was like a full time job with health insurance. Again,
I just didn't want to put myself in a situation
where I was letting not just myself down, but someone
who was relying on me to do something. And so
what kind of advice would you give to listeners who say,
you know, I need a radical sabbradical, I need some space.
(23:35):
I recognize that maybe I'm making the wrong decisions, or
I'm burnt out, or this doesn't fit me anymore. But
I can't take three months off. How could they maybe
get a flavor for that space without having the safety
net or even the ability to, you know, have other
(23:58):
people not depend on you for a period of time.
I think for me, the thing that I valued the
most was just the quiet moments that I allowed myself
to have, whether they were a ten twenty minutes to
really say, okay, well what is like can I identify
what I'm really struggling with? UM? I know that there's
(24:18):
a conversation around affordable therapy for all UM, and I
think it's so important that, however you define therapy, whether
that's talking to someone a professional, talking to a friend,
going for bike ride, like trying to carve out, you know,
small moments for yourself to to really identify, you know, well,
(24:39):
what is causing my anxiety? What is you know, what
am I really struggling with? Really helped me and so
I know that, as you said, and as I've said,
not everyone can just press like a pause button on
their life. Because even when I did, like it was
still quite stressful because I was still like, well, am
I going to pay for the stuff? Or like, you
know what, am I I still have to find a
(25:00):
job I need. I didn't have health insurance, And so
I know that there are people that have to take
care of their families, have to take care of children,
and so it can be really hard. But I think
just learning the language of how to verbalize what is
really going on when you are having these moments of
kind of feeling overwhelmed of needing help. It took me
(25:22):
so long to learn how to ask for help and
not just say I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. Allowing
people to take care of me, I think was really
a huge shift for me um during this time in
my life. And so I would say that, you know,
there are obviously people who are approaching burnout and still
have to go to work. Do they have relationships with
(25:43):
their bosses or other employees where they can say, like
I need to take half a day, I just need
to recharge. Are their friends that on the weekends, they
can say, look, I just can you babysit? Or can
you watch my kid? Can you help out? Like I'm
financially strapped right now, So to really allow the compassion
that I'm sure like people's friends have for these situations,
(26:05):
to really sit down and say, you know, how can
I work with the people that I have in my
life in a way that is productive. It also sounds
like you really made this, Like you said, whether or
not it felt like a conscious decision, right, but you
made this choice to really find moments of slowing down,
(26:27):
to stop this full on, busy speed momentum that it's
so easy to get into. I know I myself have
many times, you know, to just find like even pockets
of stillness, whether that looks like a group therapy session
every week, you know, once a week or once every
other week or whatever. And also I love the questions
(26:49):
that you started asking yourself to really try to get
to the heart of what was really going on. Yeah,
And I think the other thing too is you know,
as you were saying that, I was kind of like,
you know, running through a few scenarios in my mind.
It really was just telling people that I wasn't Okay,
that's so hard, I know, but I like, I am
(27:11):
not good at that statement. Well, I think for me,
it also boiled down to the fact that even if
I was saying I was okay, I didn't look okay.
It took work. I mean, like it was actual mental
emotional work to say to my friends like, I know
you see this happening, and I know I don't know
(27:31):
how to ask for help, but I know that I
need it. And so it wasn't just the work of
saying that, but then of not being dismissive of my
friends when they offered the help because I didn't know
what it looked like, you know, I was just like,
you know, for so long, I was like, oh, I'm fine,
I'm fine, I'm fine. I love that. I think you
made such crucial points there that it's both a skill
(27:54):
to figure out how to ask for help and to
be able to do that and then be to also
than receive that help. But those are things that don't
come naturally too many of us at all. And those
are not small things either, you know. I think Christina,
you and I have talked about this. I'm I'm increasingly
aware of how often I present as everything's okay whenever
(28:16):
thing's not. And that's not even intentional, you know. I
Mean you could say maybe it is on a subconscious level,
but that's often what it is is just this like
it's in my my upbringing my DNA to just like
stiff upper lip, you know. And then I wonder why
people aren't checking in on me, because I don't think
they have to, you know, Christina, I know that we've
(28:44):
already had these conversations with our guests, and we've listened
to them many times in post production, but I swear
to you it was like hearing their advice for the
first time. With so many people going through transitions right now,
us included, it's so helpful and reassuring to hear their
perspectives again. Absolutely, It's like, no matter how many of
(29:06):
these transitions I've had in my zig Zag career, they
never get more comfortable, you know, there's always that little
lump of fear in my chest that makes me worry
I'll never figure this out and everything will come crashing down.
And of course, with our world in transition, it also
feels like that. But to the power of ten yep.
(29:28):
But you know, remembering that all we can really do
is put in the work, take it one day at
a time, and continue to find inspiration through other voices
and people who have been through it. All of that,
I think really helps to shake off some of that
fear and just keep us moving forward a little bit
(29:49):
at a time. It's not enough to get rid of
all of the fear, but but a little bit of
just enough that it doesn't weigh me down exactly. So,
are you going through a transition right now? Tell us
about it. We love hearing from you. You can reach
us on Twitter or Instagram at t l d n
E pod, or you can email us at hello at
t ld n E podcast dot com, or you can
(30:11):
leave us a voicemail at eight three three Hi t
l d n E. That's eight three three five three
six three ven dial oh three will link to the
full episodes for each of these clips in our show notes,
plus some resources we've relied on to get through transitions.
You can find all of those at t L d
n E podcast dot com slash one. Thanks so much
(30:42):
to our producer Maya Coole and to you for tuning in.
As always, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts.
If you like what you heard. It really helps us
get the word out to fellow human ven diagrams. Until
next time, Remember, the Limit does not exit. Best The
(31:04):
Limit does not Exist is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Yeah
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