November 23, 2022 • 33 mins
Martha Kostyra Stewart became “Martha Stewart” after she shook up the publishing industry in 1982. She soon linked up with a young publicist at Crown Potter who understood and matched her drive, Susan Magrino. Together, they navigated the ascent of Martha’s fledging entertaining brand into a global household name. Listen here for the real stories of two women, friends and partners, pushing the barriers of the publishing world, and beyond.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're not living in memory lane. We are going forward.
It's all about the next. It is only getting started, Martha.
Running a successful business takes a lot, lots of concentration,
lots of hard work, lots of sleepless nights, and lots
(00:26):
of friends. You need great ideas, you need dedication, you
need enthusiasm and a team you really trust. One person
who has been on my team from the early days
is Susan mcgreno. Susan and I began working together in
the early eighties to promote my books. Susan started her
(00:46):
own public relations agency, which is now known as Magrino PR.
Thirty years later, the agency is considered one of the
top PR firms in the country. Susan is even and
called the Queen of public relations. Susan is vibrant, she
is organized, she is thorough, she's well informed, she's inquisitive,
(01:10):
and on top of it all, she is lots of
fun and a very good friend. It's a pleasure to
welcome the woman I call my business partner, travel companion,
and most importantly, my dear friend to my podcast. Welcome Susan,
Thank you, Martha, and we rarely sit down in affordable
attitude like this to to talk about you, because you
(01:33):
are always representing me, and I'm always feeling, oh wow,
Susan is always promoting me. She's doing this, she's doing that.
And now I get a chance to turn the tables
and promote you, who I admire greatly for your business acumen,
for your professionalism, for your authenticity, and nobody can talk
(01:54):
as fast and as well and has such a good
memory as Susan mcgreen. Now, you were very young when
you started your career. Susan, where do you think that
drive to start your own business came at such an
early age? Well, Uh, I think that I grew up
always knowing that I wanted to work. I mean, there
(02:15):
was just no question about it. And I think that's
what's so that's what has driven me for my entire career.
I was also very fortunate to start at a time
in New York City where I mean it's cliche, but
the world was truly your oyster. And I also think
at that point in your life, I mean backing up
a moment, when I arrived in New York in the
(02:35):
nineteen eighties, it was a terrific time and you know,
Wall Street was raging. Um, you know, formality was in
people would wear you know, ball gowns to park, have
a new dinner Parties. You're Entertaining book, which was published
in two really defined a lot of that kind of entertaining.
(02:55):
That along with Glorious Food, those were the two books
that I think really defined what New York was about,
certainly in food and entertaining at that time. And I
also think that you know, when when you went to
work then there was just no question about where you
were going, I mean, and it was only going to
be up. It was never well I'll do this for
(03:16):
a little while and maybe I'll do that. I mean,
that never crossed my mind. Well, you grew up in
Orange West, Oversation, New Jersey. I grew up in Nutley,
New Jersey. So we're sort of like religious that way.
But then you went away to college. You went to
Skidmore College up in Saratoga's Bring. So what was your
(03:40):
first job right out of college? My first job right
out of college was a Tiffany and Company. It was um.
I was in this special projects department up on one
of those top floors there, and I didn't have any
sales experience. What I truly wanted to do was go
and work for a magazine, and even though I was
an English major at that moment, I just could not
(04:01):
get a job in a magazine. So I read the
New York Times Classifies, as we all did, and I
saw an ad for Tiffany and Company. And I remember
I said to my father, you know, what do you
think of that? And he said, you can't go wrong
at Tiffany. So off I went to Tiffany and Company.
And those were in the days when I was still
owned by Walter hoving Um and run by him. And
(04:23):
I was in this department that made the Super Bowl
and corporate gifts, and it was very interesting to see silver,
which I had always loved, and how those types of
things were made. I worked there probably for about I
don't know, maybe a year, maybe under a year. They
used to have these great sample sales. I remember I
(04:44):
still have an obelisk and some wonderful elsa pretty yellow
ceramic bowls, which I treasured to this day. And I
met someone who knew someone in book publishing. And that's
really when my career truly began. Because in college you
studied history and uh and you'd like to read, Yes,
(05:04):
it's it's been obvious throughout your career and your work
with me that reading is very, very important. Which I
think was was engendered, was that in your family were
you all readers? I think my parents absolutely, they were intellectuals.
They met at Oxford in a summer program. My mother
has a PhD um Henry James, He's Henry James scholar.
(05:28):
My father was an attorney. So I think that the
written word. We always had a summer reading list, We
always had a job chart. You know that everybody you
know again, Martha, I think we share that commonality in
um the way we were raised, and I don't think
people remember everybody was raised in a very very similar
fashion for a very long time and raised to realize
(05:51):
the value of good work and of success and uh
of monetary success. Also we worked, We worked for for money,
and we worked for a career. And nowadays it's just
like a little more haphazard than that. I think you
were in publishing, So what did you do which company?
So I began at Crown Publishing and my boss was
(06:13):
Nancy Kahan, and at that time Crown had the best
publicity department in book publishing. UM. We published coffee table books,
lifestyle books, Judas Krantz's books, Gene Owl's books, and then
there was our wonderful imprint Clarkson Potter, where your books
were published. That's a very very famous at correct and
(06:37):
are still published. Um that is forty years later, Yes,
that they're still being published by Clarkson Potter, which is
quite extraordinary. How would you describe the business environment at
that time in terms of publishing. Oh, it was lively,
it was exciting. It was the making of best sellers.
(06:58):
It was the making of uh, you know John Grisham
and Deepak Chopra and you know the Silver Palette, Martha Stewart,
Lee Balley, Dominic Dunne. It was just wonderful. And I
think what was so terrific for me in the environment
at Crown was, um, they believed in publicity and we
believed in book tours. I mean, we've had so many
(07:21):
wonderful trips Martha and and I did with others where
you know, you you'd go out for two weeks. Um.
I I think the only people that do that now
are probably you know, rock and roll bands. But in
those days, we went into every city, we had a
book signing, we did all of the media, we had
amazing food, and there were people in each city that
(07:42):
dealt with the visiting authors and their publicists, and they
took such good care of us. I mean it was
really a real fantastic time. And every store wanted you.
And so if I wrote a book about entertaining, they
would want me at Bloomingdale's, they'd want me at Sacks,
they'd want me at Bergdorf Goodman, they'd want me everywhere. Well,
(08:03):
I think what you just said is the definition of
why you really began in lifestyle, because before that people
were really just going to bookstores, which was fine. But
then I remember b Altman, you know, I remember Bloomingdale's.
I remember all of these wonderful stores. And then it
became Sir La Talba, and you know, it was cooking stores,
it was gardening stores, it was fashion. Um when I
(08:25):
think of all the book signings that you've done, and
then you know, home Depot and very very interesting to
look back and think about that. Now, Well, we just
began working in three so that is almost forty years ago,
even though we did meet, I think a little bit
before that, because did you come to the first entertaining party.
(08:47):
I did not. I started on Quick cook menus, and
I gave you a very famous photo album which we
have here, where I recounted the history and meeting you
and all of the wonderful UM early parts of the
relationship in terms of press, Cliff, but you really got
to know your clients. You really, you really paid attention
(09:09):
to what we were doing on these trips. We we
every meal together. We uh, we drove in the same
card together. We talked about what we were going to
wear together, and it was really kind of fun and
we it was like traveling with the UM I was
traveling with you was like traveling with my little sister
and uh. And yet we got a lot done. And
(09:31):
you were so organized from day one. You had your
list of what had to be accomplished and you made
sure you accomplish it. And that work ethic still exists.
I mean, you are incredibly organized. And I think your staff,
how big is your staff? Now? You started she started,
Susan started her own business in which year with how
(09:53):
many people? It really was me in the beginning, and
then Alan, my sister, who was the president of the agency,
was still working at her other job, but you know,
starting to help a bit, and then obviously became full time.
But I remember those early days. Martha. You named the agency.
I said what should I call it? You said, use
your name. You took me to meet with investors. We
(10:15):
sat in mort Zuckerman's office. The best thing that you
have done for me and for everybody around you was encouragement.
You came and you started here, and you went up
there if you were talented and if you showed real interests,
and so many young people showed real interests. And I
(10:35):
and I like the like mindedness of of a group
of people working together that that really care about promotion,
they care about real product, they care about all of that.
And you saw that right away, you really did, and
not just in books, but you started to started to
represent me as soon as you started your own company. Yes,
you started to represent every everything I did, which I
(10:58):
thought was I was like, was I one of your
very first Yes? You are client one A to this day,
our longest client. And who else? Who else have you
represented over the years? Well, um, the first clients of
the Susan mcreno Agency, Martha Stewart, Crown Publishing, and I
(11:18):
always maintained a very very good relationship with them, and
not to continue working with writers such as Dominic Dunn,
Lee Bailey, Mark Laner, tama Janoits for many many years.
Frederick Phakai who you introduced me to when he was
at Yes, and you did so much good work with him,
wonderful good work. And we're still all friends, yes. Um.
(11:40):
And what about Chris Blackwell. Chris blackwelland Island Records where
he was beginning to get into the hotel business in
Miami Beach as well as in Jamaica, his home country.
And I learned so much about hospitality is our largest
division today And to think back that it only began
(12:00):
on Island Outpost and UH a hotel in Miami Beach,
the Marlin, which we quickly got on the cover of
UH condeas Traveler. So that was remember we used to
stay there at that hotel. We stayed there, love that
hotel that was South Beach right in the beginning, which
was great to be part of that Harper's bizarre What
you did early on was you realized that, UM, your
(12:24):
friends could be your clients. Your clients could also introduce
you to other clients really rapidly. Uh. Those other clients
UH embraced the work you did and introduced you to
other aspects of their companies. Even I mean, you grew
your business really rapidly. I think, is it people that
attract you or is it the product? Is it the
(12:47):
the you do beverages, now, you do travel, you do publishing,
you do fashion, You've done an awful lot of different categories.
I think those are my interests. And I think really
our client roster grew out of you know, much of
it had to do I had a liberal arts education
and then getting into book publishing where we published things,
(13:10):
you know, from cooking to novels, two books on everything,
and I think that developed an expertise. Um. But I
love the people. Um, I'm interested in everything. You know,
if I go to the supermarket, it's interesting to go
in and get things that you might not have come
in for, or or a department store or whatever it is,
(13:33):
and to think about that. So I think that that
curiosity is what has really really shaped it. I've been
very fortunate to have wonderful clients and friends and people
who have introduced me, and people who have trusted us
and allowed us to go into different aspects of their business.
And and you know, I might add it, you don't
do it alone. Uh, you know, as the business grew
(13:54):
over the years, I've had amazing people that we have
worked with, and certainly my sister Alan mcgreeno UM and
others that I remained friendly with until this day. And
we've also spawned other agencies, people who have gone out
and started um their own practices. So I'm very proud
of that. I think I remember a couple of years ago, um,
(14:16):
you know, when when Google hired somebody away from us,
I took that as a great compliment, and I feel
that that's even more gratifying to me now to watch
people go off and do things, um, as gratifying as
it is to watch what our clients can do. Susan,
(14:40):
let's get inter some of your very fabulous hobbies. Because Susan,
did you start collecting stuff or fashion first? Which was
your first? I think that, you know, all of the
tag sailing and things like that really did start with you. Um,
you know, the fire King and and things like that. UM.
(15:00):
I've always loved clothing. My mother was always dressed, is
always dressed, UM. And I remember having her original Calvin
kleines and you know I would dress up in high school,
not not you know too much, but then when I
came to New York. Remember it was the nineteen eighties.
I remember being on a book tour with you with
a red suit with shoulder pads and gold buttons and
(15:22):
a belt and a skirt. So I always really really
enjoyed clothing. And I think because I was single for
a long time and I was always working and dressed up,
I really developed an interest and had the time to
go shopping. So I think, I mean, I was looking
at my closet the other day, you know, I'm I've
been fortunate because I really I bought at a very
(15:45):
good time. I've kept everything. I really enjoy it. I
really believe in being dressed up. I know things have
become much more casual, but I I have fun with it.
And um and you can watch and you can walk
Susan on a regular basis on her Instagram emerging from
the door, beautiful photographs of Susan with identifiable clothing, everything
(16:10):
from the shoes to the bags, to the jewelry to
the dress to the pants, everything identified on the Instagram picture.
And you you've sort of built a really interesting following
on that because people don't do that normally, and it's
really very, very interesting so and that you remember everything
to do you have everything cataloged. I try to have
(16:32):
clothing in the sections of designer. I really do think
by designer, the jewelry, I'll have a dower of, you know,
the gold costume necklaces, UM, I have rings, you know,
I mean, but it's catalog for me in my mind.
I think the hard thing is when you move around
and you really you really have to keep track of things.
But I I you know, what I'm noticing is people
(16:53):
love going out. Oh boy, do they love those pictures.
They love black tie. UM, one of my favorite occasions
as well. And I do have a lot of that,
the going to work outfits. As long as they're colorful.
They really like them, the more muted tones, unless it's
lighter colors. But it's so interesting to see what people
(17:15):
gravitate towards and they really like the pictures even more
than the text. And I do remember where everything came from.
Every now that I find something and I'm like, where
did I get that? That's unusual for me because I
really do know it, and you know, it has haunts
here and there and every yes, and she sometimes shares
them and not Oh, I will tell you. I'm hoping
(17:37):
there are some estates sales when I leave here that
I can find. So fashion is one thing, and handbags
is another thing. You have wonderful, wonderful pocket books, Yes,
pocket books. You also what impresses me too is your office.
I I haven't really mentioned that to you very much,
but the last time I was at your office, it
(17:58):
was really a pleas and experience because you have consistently
upgraded and upgraded your office to make it a more
pleasant workplace for for your employees. And you have long
banquhetts in the long hallway where people sit uh with
a table in front of them, or they can just
sit there and be casual, not at a desk. You
(18:19):
have lots of artwork everywhere, and Susan has collected vintage photographs,
beautiful little vintage paintings. Um, it's not, it's not you're
not collecting rothcoes, but you're collecting period art. That's so
interesting that really, um shows your collecting ability. Thank you.
(18:40):
I I really enjoy that, and I it's very nice
to have a place to put all of these things.
The kitchen has some wonderful large, large floral, colorful portraits
cent are all out of Fairfield County in the seventies
where somebody was probably picking up a paintbrush for the
first time that I got at our St. Mark's Church
in New Canaan at their fab list Mayfair. I have
(19:01):
lots and lots of Rodman Pell, who is a painter.
Was he was part of the Pell family from Rhode
Island and Pell's Fish Market in Greenport, and he does
lots and lots of sort of primitive kind of Grandma
moses like landscapes. UM. Some of them were in the snow.
Some of them remind me of Philip Gustin as well.
I have UM lots of photographs of the Bert Stern
(19:25):
of um you know, Brigitte Bardot and um, Katherine Deneuve
And did you buy those at auction or do you
buy those online? Now? I most of my purchases are
really I I've seen them myself or I met someone.
I met somebody that had worked with Bert Stern, so
I bought it quite a few pieces from her. But
(19:46):
the other pieces I just found two fabulous Vasarelli's um
at an estate sale in Long Island last summer. UM,
I've found the original paintings the Vasarelli prints, so they're
they're part of a series, and then um, you know,
I have to like it and connect with it. You've
been to my home in Long Island, which is entirely
(20:08):
um paintings from that the Peconic Bay painters, and then
I found a whole lot of paintings that my mother
had done when my parents bought our house an orient
the sixties. So I saw those when you visited us
this summer. And what makes me really happy about Susan
is that she's also not only collecting fashion and art
and vintage, but she's also becoming a gardener. And I
(20:33):
really I get I get very excited when you called
me up to ask me about a specific kind of
lily that you should plant, or a hydrangea, and uh
and so um. So you have you haven't stopped really
growing your your interests at all. And that's a very
admirable trait too, especially during COVID, when when so many
people sort of just sat back and didn't do too much.
(20:55):
You kept going, going, going, and building the brands that
you represent. I wanted to talk a little bit about
the brands that you have really had a huge impact on.
Other than Martha Stewart. You've also developed and helped build
the Chateau on de Clan and Whispering Angel Rose. I mean,
it's so fantastic. Whispering Angel was a little known brand.
(21:18):
It is now the mega brand and Rose absolutely and
I think that that has so much to do again
with the founder, Sasha La Sheen, And I was introduced
to him. I had met Paul Chevalier at a James
Beard event, which was also a client of ours, and
you know, then I met Sasha and he was so
much fun and so interested, and I think what was
(21:41):
wonderful about him. He's uh French, but he was raised
in New York in the nineteen eighties, so he understood
the American market, which is really really where the growth
was for that brand and continues to be, but but
also globally, and I think that makes a big, big difference.
What I love about my business with people that are
a lot of fun, and I think that's what people
(22:03):
need to remember. I mean, you can run a business,
you can also have fun. When we launched the Michelin Guide,
I mean that was an amazing experience. It was remember
remember that in New York. I mean it was just
huge and and the the the expert of it, in
the secrecy of it, in the announcement. Um, you know
alone ducass and Gordon Ramsey and working with Liz Tilbaris
(22:25):
back when Harper's Bazaar was relaunched was just so much
fun and so interesting about fashion and meeting so many
interesting people and Frederick through Beauty and Laura Mercy a
and um, you know hotels and uh you represent the
function in Miami Beach, a huge hotel. You have really
(22:47):
really helped that brand grow and grow over the years,
and you're so diligent at it. Susan does not go
to Miami unless she stays at the phone, right. Absolutely.
We're working now with Omni, the brand of Omni and
many many of their other locations as well as restaurants.
We've also got a brand called main Street Hospitality, which
(23:07):
includes the Red Lion in in Massachusetts, and then they
have one of my old hangouts. So it's great and
I think that's also what's interesting about our agency is
that we have the ability to do large scale brands
and projects as well and clients as well as some
(23:29):
of the smaller ones. And I think that's you know,
we love Scout Bags a brand that was based in Washington,
d C. That UM we're having lots of fun with
and starting to get into some more customization there. UM
the Kip Space show houses, which were in New York
for many years and have expanded to Palm Beach as
well as Dallas. And also some very very well known
(23:51):
and very important charities that you work on. What are
the New York Public Library which has the Library Alliance
Alzheimer's Literacy Partners, and you've been such a good advocate
for Literacy Partners. I've going to lots of the readings
where they bring in students, uh in their teens, who
learned how to read as a result of the good
(24:13):
work that Literacy Partners does. But all that work is
really great, Susan, and I'm very proud that you do
that work. And I'm also on the advisory board of
Philip Johnson's Glass House in New Canaan, which I really
enjoy ie. One of the real treats and pleasures, as
you know, with your board work and support UM, is
being able to go over there on a Sunday in
(24:34):
the height of our beautiful foliage and walk through the
house and all of the buildings and the property and
it was really really special and that those are the
you know, pinch yourself moments of how great it is.
(24:55):
So this year two is sort of a wordershed year
for lot of businesses. Your business is going to be
It is three years one. My magazine celebrated its thirtieth birthday.
It's a funny year and and yet we are We're
getting more excited about the future, which is so nice
(25:17):
to feel. What are the three biggest things that you've
learned in thirty years in public relations? And how has
PR changed? I like to say how it hasn't changed.
It's interesting. I'm in the process of writing an essay
for one of our industry magazines about this um. It
has certainly changed an enormous amount. And if you have
(25:40):
an embraced digital work and all of the things that
you can do to reach people now, you won't be
a business. You just can't. I remember a few years
ago when people will say, well, I didn't know I
don't do email, or I I don't have a phone.
I mean, can you imagine? Well, I mean that's just
silly to say something like that. I mean, you better
be a master of TikTok and reels and and then
(26:03):
all of the other um, you know, new newer forms
of communication. So I think that's that's part of every
single plan that we do, and in some cases it's
all that we do UM because so much has changed
in print and the traditional ways of communicating. We do
have some clients and plans that are you know, three
quarters or you know a hundred percent about entirely digital. UM.
(26:27):
There are clients that absolutely need the bespoke hand touch
that we've always done, and I personally believe that part
of it will never go away. I think how people
behave is hugely important. UM. I think nuance in the
way you can read people can really tell you a
lot about how people can connect to something, to a brand,
(26:50):
and I think that piece is something that we're very
good at and that nobody could ever discount. You have
to still be even in these times where I think
people may have become more cautious, you must still be
willing to take a risk, but you also have to know.
I think that is what affords all of us who
(27:10):
have been uh perfecting their crafts for many many years.
There are certain things that you just know what the
outcome will be and you're smiling Martha and I'm smiling,
and we know we're right about that, and you have to,
you know, make those the right decisions on that. And
they're they're about business, they're about people. They're not always
about news, but they're often about news. I think one
(27:32):
thing I'm I'm pretty good at is understanding a news
cycle and knowing when something is absolutely going to blow up.
I'm still amazed at how I guess I have a
very good antenna for that. Where some people I'm like,
are you kidding me? You have got to shut that
down over there in order to do this over here
(27:52):
or um. You know, And I think there are times
where you you have to sit back and wait and
be patient. So how would you describe the team that
you have working with you now at the company with
the team that you had when, let's say, in the
first five years. And I think it's drastically different. Yes,
I think a lot of that has to do with
(28:14):
the business, the industry changing. I think that the commonality
is the commitment. One of my favorite things is to
go back and look at UM. You remember Michael Donough
and Alan and um in the early days, everybody had
to do a memo for me of what they did
that day. And these are delicious to read and amazing
(28:36):
to keep them. Oh you bat, I'm the daughter of
an attorney. I don't get rid of anything. And every
now and then I'll pull them out and I'll write
to Michael, I'll call Alan into my office. We're all
go into her office and we just look at each
other and say, can you believe this? Can you believe
how deeply indebted we were? And and we actually had
(28:58):
the time to write everything down. But we weren't dealing
with computers all day. We were talking to each other
and the phone shet, You weren't doing social media and
looking at reels and looking at TikTok. But you're on
the phone. And I look at my phone sheet often
five six pages long calls a sheet. Can you imagine that?
(29:19):
And cell phones were just getting started. But so I
think that it really is about UM. You know, we
have a larger senior team now obviously the agency is
bigger UM, and I think we have more of a
variety of expertise where you've got people, you know, you know,
we have people that are expert in food expert and
(29:39):
wine expert and travel expert in digital but everybody's got
to be expert and digital. UM that that's not an
option anymore. You don't separate that, so it's integrated. What
top piece of advice would you give to an aspiring
entrepreneurial person today, because those are the kinds of peop
(30:00):
I think gravitate towards your kind of company. What's the advice?
I think you have to always be willing to work hard.
I mean I think back of probably the first year
or so, really three hours a night of sleep, you know,
going through every single media list myself and really knowing
everything I was doing. That's hard to do and it's
(30:22):
impossible to scale and you will burn out if you
do that because there's too much to be on top
of now. I think that the hard work piece is
what remains. UM. You have to have trust in other people. UM.
You have to be able to rely on other people
to help you. So I think you have to find
people to work with it, have that you share the
(30:44):
common vision UM and the work ethic. I think, UM,
you know, you have to be willing to to be patient.
I know I'm going back to some of the same things,
but I meet people and sometimes we'll have people call
us and I think you don't need PR. You know,
you need a CFO, you need some product, or you
(31:05):
need a better idea. I'm always amazed, and maybe it's
great for my industry for everybody to think, oh yeah,
now we need good PR. But in fact you need
to take a step back and realize, well, you know, what,
what are you doing? Why should I care? And where
are you going to go with it? And I think
also when you have a great idea, and you know
(31:25):
this because you've worked a lot of entrepreneurs, they have
to know when they have to bring the right people in.
And we've certainly seen that with a lot of these
tech founders and and I p o s and specks
that were just incredible that you know, they imploded because
they just there was no management team. There was nobody
to do what they didn't know how to do. Yes,
(31:47):
those CEOs and those CFOs a few of them, and
you and I are still here, Martha indeed. Well to
learn more about Susan mcgreeno Magreno PR agency, visit the
website for her agency Mcgreno pr dot com and to
(32:08):
see the wonderful clothing and to keep up with all
that she does. Follow her on Instagram at Susan mcgreno seven. Susan,
thank you so much for coming by and wearing the
shirt that I gave to you because we went shopping
one day and we all fell in love with this
same shirt. And Terry Blair also um when she comes
(32:31):
on the podcast, I'm going to ask her to wear
hers too, and Alex, we're gonna have to take a
photograph of our of us with this beautiful denim with
the big boat and shoulder paties. I love. It's a
lot of fun to talk to you, a lot of
fun to go down memory lane. But what's really great
(32:52):
about Susan mcgreeno and I think about Martha Stewart, is
that we're not living in memory lane. We are going forward.
It's all about the next We're only getting started, Martha,
only getting started. Thank you and thank you for everything
that you have done for me. And have a very
nice Thanksgiving. Thank you, Happy Thanksgiving.
We're not living in memory lane. We are going forward.
It's all about the next. It is only getting started, Martha.
Running a successful business takes a lot, lots of concentration,
lots of hard work, lots of sleepless nights, and lots
(00:26):
of friends. You need great ideas, you need dedication, you
need enthusiasm and a team you really trust. One person
who has been on my team from the early days
is Susan mcgreno. Susan and I began working together in
the early eighties to promote my books. Susan started her
(00:46):
own public relations agency, which is now known as Magrino PR.
Thirty years later, the agency is considered one of the
top PR firms in the country. Susan is even and
called the Queen of public relations. Susan is vibrant, she
is organized, she is thorough, she's well informed, she's inquisitive,
(01:10):
and on top of it all, she is lots of
fun and a very good friend. It's a pleasure to
welcome the woman I call my business partner, travel companion,
and most importantly, my dear friend to my podcast. Welcome Susan,
Thank you, Martha, and we rarely sit down in affordable
attitude like this to to talk about you, because you
(01:33):
are always representing me, and I'm always feeling, oh wow,
Susan is always promoting me. She's doing this, she's doing that.
And now I get a chance to turn the tables
and promote you, who I admire greatly for your business acumen,
for your professionalism, for your authenticity, and nobody can talk
(01:54):
as fast and as well and has such a good
memory as Susan mcgreen. Now, you were very young when
you started your career. Susan, where do you think that
drive to start your own business came at such an
early age? Well, Uh, I think that I grew up
always knowing that I wanted to work. I mean, there
(02:15):
was just no question about it. And I think that's
what's so that's what has driven me for my entire career.
I was also very fortunate to start at a time
in New York City where I mean it's cliche, but
the world was truly your oyster. And I also think
at that point in your life, I mean backing up
a moment, when I arrived in New York in the
(02:35):
nineteen eighties, it was a terrific time and you know,
Wall Street was raging. Um, you know, formality was in
people would wear you know, ball gowns to park, have
a new dinner Parties. You're Entertaining book, which was published
in two really defined a lot of that kind of entertaining.
(02:55):
That along with Glorious Food, those were the two books
that I think really defined what New York was about,
certainly in food and entertaining at that time. And I
also think that you know, when when you went to
work then there was just no question about where you
were going, I mean, and it was only going to
be up. It was never well I'll do this for
(03:16):
a little while and maybe I'll do that. I mean,
that never crossed my mind. Well, you grew up in
Orange West, Oversation, New Jersey. I grew up in Nutley,
New Jersey. So we're sort of like religious that way.
But then you went away to college. You went to
Skidmore College up in Saratoga's Bring. So what was your
(03:40):
first job right out of college? My first job right
out of college was a Tiffany and Company. It was um.
I was in this special projects department up on one
of those top floors there, and I didn't have any
sales experience. What I truly wanted to do was go
and work for a magazine, and even though I was
an English major at that moment, I just could not
(04:01):
get a job in a magazine. So I read the
New York Times Classifies, as we all did, and I
saw an ad for Tiffany and Company. And I remember
I said to my father, you know, what do you
think of that? And he said, you can't go wrong
at Tiffany. So off I went to Tiffany and Company.
And those were in the days when I was still
owned by Walter hoving Um and run by him. And
(04:23):
I was in this department that made the Super Bowl
and corporate gifts, and it was very interesting to see silver,
which I had always loved, and how those types of
things were made. I worked there probably for about I
don't know, maybe a year, maybe under a year. They
used to have these great sample sales. I remember I
(04:44):
still have an obelisk and some wonderful elsa pretty yellow
ceramic bowls, which I treasured to this day. And I
met someone who knew someone in book publishing. And that's
really when my career truly began. Because in college you
studied history and uh and you'd like to read, Yes,
(05:04):
it's it's been obvious throughout your career and your work
with me that reading is very, very important. Which I
think was was engendered, was that in your family were
you all readers? I think my parents absolutely, they were intellectuals.
They met at Oxford in a summer program. My mother
has a PhD um Henry James, He's Henry James scholar.
(05:28):
My father was an attorney. So I think that the
written word. We always had a summer reading list, We
always had a job chart. You know that everybody you
know again, Martha, I think we share that commonality in
um the way we were raised, and I don't think
people remember everybody was raised in a very very similar
fashion for a very long time and raised to realize
(05:51):
the value of good work and of success and uh
of monetary success. Also we worked, We worked for for money,
and we worked for a career. And nowadays it's just
like a little more haphazard than that. I think you
were in publishing, So what did you do which company?
So I began at Crown Publishing and my boss was
(06:13):
Nancy Kahan, and at that time Crown had the best
publicity department in book publishing. UM. We published coffee table books,
lifestyle books, Judas Krantz's books, Gene Owl's books, and then
there was our wonderful imprint Clarkson Potter, where your books
were published. That's a very very famous at correct and
(06:37):
are still published. Um that is forty years later, Yes,
that they're still being published by Clarkson Potter, which is
quite extraordinary. How would you describe the business environment at
that time in terms of publishing. Oh, it was lively,
it was exciting. It was the making of best sellers.
(06:58):
It was the making of uh, you know John Grisham
and Deepak Chopra and you know the Silver Palette, Martha Stewart,
Lee Balley, Dominic Dunne. It was just wonderful. And I
think what was so terrific for me in the environment
at Crown was, um, they believed in publicity and we
believed in book tours. I mean, we've had so many
(07:21):
wonderful trips Martha and and I did with others where
you know, you you'd go out for two weeks. Um.
I I think the only people that do that now
are probably you know, rock and roll bands. But in
those days, we went into every city, we had a
book signing, we did all of the media, we had
amazing food, and there were people in each city that
(07:42):
dealt with the visiting authors and their publicists, and they
took such good care of us. I mean it was
really a real fantastic time. And every store wanted you.
And so if I wrote a book about entertaining, they
would want me at Bloomingdale's, they'd want me at Sacks,
they'd want me at Bergdorf Goodman, they'd want me everywhere. Well,
(08:03):
I think what you just said is the definition of
why you really began in lifestyle, because before that people
were really just going to bookstores, which was fine. But
then I remember b Altman, you know, I remember Bloomingdale's.
I remember all of these wonderful stores. And then it
became Sir La Talba, and you know, it was cooking stores,
it was gardening stores, it was fashion. Um when I
(08:25):
think of all the book signings that you've done, and
then you know, home Depot and very very interesting to
look back and think about that. Now, Well, we just
began working in three so that is almost forty years ago,
even though we did meet, I think a little bit
before that, because did you come to the first entertaining party.
(08:47):
I did not. I started on Quick cook menus, and
I gave you a very famous photo album which we
have here, where I recounted the history and meeting you
and all of the wonderful UM early parts of the
relationship in terms of press, Cliff, but you really got
to know your clients. You really, you really paid attention
(09:09):
to what we were doing on these trips. We we
every meal together. We uh, we drove in the same
card together. We talked about what we were going to
wear together, and it was really kind of fun and
we it was like traveling with the UM I was
traveling with you was like traveling with my little sister
and uh. And yet we got a lot done. And
(09:31):
you were so organized from day one. You had your
list of what had to be accomplished and you made
sure you accomplish it. And that work ethic still exists.
I mean, you are incredibly organized. And I think your staff,
how big is your staff? Now? You started she started,
Susan started her own business in which year with how
(09:53):
many people? It really was me in the beginning, and
then Alan, my sister, who was the president of the agency,
was still working at her other job, but you know,
starting to help a bit, and then obviously became full time.
But I remember those early days. Martha. You named the agency.
I said what should I call it? You said, use
your name. You took me to meet with investors. We
(10:15):
sat in mort Zuckerman's office. The best thing that you
have done for me and for everybody around you was encouragement.
You came and you started here, and you went up
there if you were talented and if you showed real interests,
and so many young people showed real interests. And I
(10:35):
and I like the like mindedness of of a group
of people working together that that really care about promotion,
they care about real product, they care about all of that.
And you saw that right away, you really did, and
not just in books, but you started to started to
represent me as soon as you started your own company. Yes,
you started to represent every everything I did, which I
(10:58):
thought was I was like, was I one of your
very first Yes? You are client one A to this day,
our longest client. And who else? Who else have you
represented over the years? Well, um, the first clients of
the Susan mcreno Agency, Martha Stewart, Crown Publishing, and I
(11:18):
always maintained a very very good relationship with them, and
not to continue working with writers such as Dominic Dunn,
Lee Bailey, Mark Laner, tama Janoits for many many years.
Frederick Phakai who you introduced me to when he was
at Yes, and you did so much good work with him,
wonderful good work. And we're still all friends, yes. Um.
(11:40):
And what about Chris Blackwell. Chris blackwelland Island Records where
he was beginning to get into the hotel business in
Miami Beach as well as in Jamaica, his home country.
And I learned so much about hospitality is our largest
division today And to think back that it only began
(12:00):
on Island Outpost and UH a hotel in Miami Beach,
the Marlin, which we quickly got on the cover of
UH condeas Traveler. So that was remember we used to
stay there at that hotel. We stayed there, love that
hotel that was South Beach right in the beginning, which
was great to be part of that Harper's bizarre What
you did early on was you realized that, UM, your
(12:24):
friends could be your clients. Your clients could also introduce
you to other clients really rapidly. Uh. Those other clients
UH embraced the work you did and introduced you to
other aspects of their companies. Even I mean, you grew
your business really rapidly. I think, is it people that
attract you or is it the product? Is it the
(12:47):
the you do beverages, now, you do travel, you do publishing,
you do fashion, You've done an awful lot of different categories.
I think those are my interests. And I think really
our client roster grew out of you know, much of
it had to do I had a liberal arts education
and then getting into book publishing where we published things,
(13:10):
you know, from cooking to novels, two books on everything,
and I think that developed an expertise. Um. But I
love the people. Um, I'm interested in everything. You know,
if I go to the supermarket, it's interesting to go
in and get things that you might not have come
in for, or or a department store or whatever it is,
(13:33):
and to think about that. So I think that that
curiosity is what has really really shaped it. I've been
very fortunate to have wonderful clients and friends and people
who have introduced me, and people who have trusted us
and allowed us to go into different aspects of their business.
And and you know, I might add it, you don't
do it alone. Uh, you know, as the business grew
(13:54):
over the years, I've had amazing people that we have
worked with, and certainly my sister Alan mcgreeno UM and
others that I remained friendly with until this day. And
we've also spawned other agencies, people who have gone out
and started um their own practices. So I'm very proud
of that. I think I remember a couple of years ago, um,
(14:16):
you know, when when Google hired somebody away from us,
I took that as a great compliment, and I feel
that that's even more gratifying to me now to watch
people go off and do things, um, as gratifying as
it is to watch what our clients can do. Susan,
(14:40):
let's get inter some of your very fabulous hobbies. Because Susan,
did you start collecting stuff or fashion first? Which was
your first? I think that, you know, all of the
tag sailing and things like that really did start with you. Um,
you know, the fire King and and things like that. UM.
(15:00):
I've always loved clothing. My mother was always dressed, is
always dressed, UM. And I remember having her original Calvin
kleines and you know I would dress up in high school,
not not you know too much, but then when I
came to New York. Remember it was the nineteen eighties.
I remember being on a book tour with you with
a red suit with shoulder pads and gold buttons and
(15:22):
a belt and a skirt. So I always really really
enjoyed clothing. And I think because I was single for
a long time and I was always working and dressed up,
I really developed an interest and had the time to
go shopping. So I think, I mean, I was looking
at my closet the other day, you know, I'm I've
been fortunate because I really I bought at a very
(15:45):
good time. I've kept everything. I really enjoy it. I
really believe in being dressed up. I know things have
become much more casual, but I I have fun with it.
And um and you can watch and you can walk
Susan on a regular basis on her Instagram emerging from
the door, beautiful photographs of Susan with identifiable clothing, everything
(16:10):
from the shoes to the bags, to the jewelry to
the dress to the pants, everything identified on the Instagram picture.
And you you've sort of built a really interesting following
on that because people don't do that normally, and it's
really very, very interesting so and that you remember everything
to do you have everything cataloged. I try to have
(16:32):
clothing in the sections of designer. I really do think
by designer, the jewelry, I'll have a dower of, you know,
the gold costume necklaces, UM, I have rings, you know,
I mean, but it's catalog for me in my mind.
I think the hard thing is when you move around
and you really you really have to keep track of things.
But I I you know, what I'm noticing is people
(16:53):
love going out. Oh boy, do they love those pictures.
They love black tie. UM, one of my favorite occasions
as well. And I do have a lot of that,
the going to work outfits. As long as they're colorful.
They really like them, the more muted tones, unless it's
lighter colors. But it's so interesting to see what people
(17:15):
gravitate towards and they really like the pictures even more
than the text. And I do remember where everything came from.
Every now that I find something and I'm like, where
did I get that? That's unusual for me because I
really do know it, and you know, it has haunts
here and there and every yes, and she sometimes shares
them and not Oh, I will tell you. I'm hoping
(17:37):
there are some estates sales when I leave here that
I can find. So fashion is one thing, and handbags
is another thing. You have wonderful, wonderful pocket books, Yes,
pocket books. You also what impresses me too is your office.
I I haven't really mentioned that to you very much,
but the last time I was at your office, it
(17:58):
was really a pleas and experience because you have consistently
upgraded and upgraded your office to make it a more
pleasant workplace for for your employees. And you have long
banquhetts in the long hallway where people sit uh with
a table in front of them, or they can just
sit there and be casual, not at a desk. You
(18:19):
have lots of artwork everywhere, and Susan has collected vintage photographs,
beautiful little vintage paintings. Um, it's not, it's not you're
not collecting rothcoes, but you're collecting period art. That's so
interesting that really, um shows your collecting ability. Thank you.
(18:40):
I I really enjoy that, and I it's very nice
to have a place to put all of these things.
The kitchen has some wonderful large, large floral, colorful portraits
cent are all out of Fairfield County in the seventies
where somebody was probably picking up a paintbrush for the
first time that I got at our St. Mark's Church
in New Canaan at their fab list Mayfair. I have
(19:01):
lots and lots of Rodman Pell, who is a painter.
Was he was part of the Pell family from Rhode
Island and Pell's Fish Market in Greenport, and he does
lots and lots of sort of primitive kind of Grandma
moses like landscapes. UM. Some of them were in the snow.
Some of them remind me of Philip Gustin as well.
I have UM lots of photographs of the Bert Stern
(19:25):
of um you know, Brigitte Bardot and um, Katherine Deneuve
And did you buy those at auction or do you
buy those online? Now? I most of my purchases are
really I I've seen them myself or I met someone.
I met somebody that had worked with Bert Stern, so
I bought it quite a few pieces from her. But
(19:46):
the other pieces I just found two fabulous Vasarelli's um
at an estate sale in Long Island last summer. UM,
I've found the original paintings the Vasarelli prints, so they're
they're part of a series, and then um, you know,
I have to like it and connect with it. You've
been to my home in Long Island, which is entirely
(20:08):
um paintings from that the Peconic Bay painters, and then
I found a whole lot of paintings that my mother
had done when my parents bought our house an orient
the sixties. So I saw those when you visited us
this summer. And what makes me really happy about Susan
is that she's also not only collecting fashion and art
and vintage, but she's also becoming a gardener. And I
(20:33):
really I get I get very excited when you called
me up to ask me about a specific kind of
lily that you should plant, or a hydrangea, and uh
and so um. So you have you haven't stopped really
growing your your interests at all. And that's a very
admirable trait too, especially during COVID, when when so many
people sort of just sat back and didn't do too much.
(20:55):
You kept going, going, going, and building the brands that
you represent. I wanted to talk a little bit about
the brands that you have really had a huge impact on.
Other than Martha Stewart. You've also developed and helped build
the Chateau on de Clan and Whispering Angel Rose. I mean,
it's so fantastic. Whispering Angel was a little known brand.
(21:18):
It is now the mega brand and Rose absolutely and
I think that that has so much to do again
with the founder, Sasha La Sheen, And I was introduced
to him. I had met Paul Chevalier at a James
Beard event, which was also a client of ours, and
you know, then I met Sasha and he was so
much fun and so interested, and I think what was
(21:41):
wonderful about him. He's uh French, but he was raised
in New York in the nineteen eighties, so he understood
the American market, which is really really where the growth
was for that brand and continues to be, but but
also globally, and I think that makes a big, big difference.
What I love about my business with people that are
a lot of fun, and I think that's what people
(22:03):
need to remember. I mean, you can run a business,
you can also have fun. When we launched the Michelin Guide,
I mean that was an amazing experience. It was remember
remember that in New York. I mean it was just
huge and and the the the expert of it, in
the secrecy of it, in the announcement. Um, you know
alone ducass and Gordon Ramsey and working with Liz Tilbaris
(22:25):
back when Harper's Bazaar was relaunched was just so much
fun and so interesting about fashion and meeting so many
interesting people and Frederick through Beauty and Laura Mercy a
and um, you know hotels and uh you represent the
function in Miami Beach, a huge hotel. You have really
(22:47):
really helped that brand grow and grow over the years,
and you're so diligent at it. Susan does not go
to Miami unless she stays at the phone, right. Absolutely.
We're working now with Omni, the brand of Omni and
many many of their other locations as well as restaurants.
We've also got a brand called main Street Hospitality, which
(23:07):
includes the Red Lion in in Massachusetts, and then they
have one of my old hangouts. So it's great and
I think that's also what's interesting about our agency is
that we have the ability to do large scale brands
and projects as well and clients as well as some
(23:29):
of the smaller ones. And I think that's you know,
we love Scout Bags a brand that was based in Washington,
d C. That UM we're having lots of fun with
and starting to get into some more customization there. UM
the Kip Space show houses, which were in New York
for many years and have expanded to Palm Beach as
well as Dallas. And also some very very well known
(23:51):
and very important charities that you work on. What are
the New York Public Library which has the Library Alliance
Alzheimer's Literacy Partners, and you've been such a good advocate
for Literacy Partners. I've going to lots of the readings
where they bring in students, uh in their teens, who
learned how to read as a result of the good
(24:13):
work that Literacy Partners does. But all that work is
really great, Susan, and I'm very proud that you do
that work. And I'm also on the advisory board of
Philip Johnson's Glass House in New Canaan, which I really
enjoy ie. One of the real treats and pleasures, as
you know, with your board work and support UM, is
being able to go over there on a Sunday in
(24:34):
the height of our beautiful foliage and walk through the
house and all of the buildings and the property and
it was really really special and that those are the
you know, pinch yourself moments of how great it is.
(24:55):
So this year two is sort of a wordershed year
for lot of businesses. Your business is going to be
It is three years one. My magazine celebrated its thirtieth birthday.
It's a funny year and and yet we are We're
getting more excited about the future, which is so nice
(25:17):
to feel. What are the three biggest things that you've
learned in thirty years in public relations? And how has
PR changed? I like to say how it hasn't changed.
It's interesting. I'm in the process of writing an essay
for one of our industry magazines about this um. It
has certainly changed an enormous amount. And if you have
(25:40):
an embraced digital work and all of the things that
you can do to reach people now, you won't be
a business. You just can't. I remember a few years
ago when people will say, well, I didn't know I
don't do email, or I I don't have a phone.
I mean, can you imagine? Well, I mean that's just
silly to say something like that. I mean, you better
be a master of TikTok and reels and and then
(26:03):
all of the other um, you know, new newer forms
of communication. So I think that's that's part of every
single plan that we do, and in some cases it's
all that we do UM because so much has changed
in print and the traditional ways of communicating. We do
have some clients and plans that are you know, three
quarters or you know a hundred percent about entirely digital. UM.
(26:27):
There are clients that absolutely need the bespoke hand touch
that we've always done, and I personally believe that part
of it will never go away. I think how people
behave is hugely important. UM. I think nuance in the
way you can read people can really tell you a
lot about how people can connect to something, to a brand,
(26:50):
and I think that piece is something that we're very
good at and that nobody could ever discount. You have
to still be even in these times where I think
people may have become more cautious, you must still be
willing to take a risk, but you also have to know.
I think that is what affords all of us who
(27:10):
have been uh perfecting their crafts for many many years.
There are certain things that you just know what the
outcome will be and you're smiling Martha and I'm smiling,
and we know we're right about that, and you have to,
you know, make those the right decisions on that. And
they're they're about business, they're about people. They're not always
about news, but they're often about news. I think one
(27:32):
thing I'm I'm pretty good at is understanding a news
cycle and knowing when something is absolutely going to blow up.
I'm still amazed at how I guess I have a
very good antenna for that. Where some people I'm like,
are you kidding me? You have got to shut that
down over there in order to do this over here
(27:52):
or um. You know, And I think there are times
where you you have to sit back and wait and
be patient. So how would you describe the team that
you have working with you now at the company with
the team that you had when, let's say, in the
first five years. And I think it's drastically different. Yes,
I think a lot of that has to do with
(28:14):
the business, the industry changing. I think that the commonality
is the commitment. One of my favorite things is to
go back and look at UM. You remember Michael Donough
and Alan and um in the early days, everybody had
to do a memo for me of what they did
that day. And these are delicious to read and amazing
(28:36):
to keep them. Oh you bat, I'm the daughter of
an attorney. I don't get rid of anything. And every
now and then I'll pull them out and I'll write
to Michael, I'll call Alan into my office. We're all
go into her office and we just look at each
other and say, can you believe this? Can you believe
how deeply indebted we were? And and we actually had
(28:58):
the time to write everything down. But we weren't dealing
with computers all day. We were talking to each other
and the phone shet, You weren't doing social media and
looking at reels and looking at TikTok. But you're on
the phone. And I look at my phone sheet often
five six pages long calls a sheet. Can you imagine that?
(29:19):
And cell phones were just getting started. But so I
think that it really is about UM. You know, we
have a larger senior team now obviously the agency is
bigger UM, and I think we have more of a
variety of expertise where you've got people, you know, you know,
we have people that are expert in food expert and
(29:39):
wine expert and travel expert in digital but everybody's got
to be expert and digital. UM that that's not an
option anymore. You don't separate that, so it's integrated. What
top piece of advice would you give to an aspiring
entrepreneurial person today, because those are the kinds of peop
(30:00):
I think gravitate towards your kind of company. What's the advice?
I think you have to always be willing to work hard.
I mean I think back of probably the first year
or so, really three hours a night of sleep, you know,
going through every single media list myself and really knowing
everything I was doing. That's hard to do and it's
(30:22):
impossible to scale and you will burn out if you
do that because there's too much to be on top
of now. I think that the hard work piece is
what remains. UM. You have to have trust in other people. UM.
You have to be able to rely on other people
to help you. So I think you have to find
people to work with it, have that you share the
(30:44):
common vision UM and the work ethic. I think, UM,
you know, you have to be willing to to be patient.
I know I'm going back to some of the same things,
but I meet people and sometimes we'll have people call
us and I think you don't need PR. You know,
you need a CFO, you need some product, or you
(31:05):
need a better idea. I'm always amazed, and maybe it's
great for my industry for everybody to think, oh yeah,
now we need good PR. But in fact you need
to take a step back and realize, well, you know, what,
what are you doing? Why should I care? And where
are you going to go with it? And I think
also when you have a great idea, and you know
(31:25):
this because you've worked a lot of entrepreneurs, they have
to know when they have to bring the right people in.
And we've certainly seen that with a lot of these
tech founders and and I p o s and specks
that were just incredible that you know, they imploded because
they just there was no management team. There was nobody
to do what they didn't know how to do. Yes,
(31:47):
those CEOs and those CFOs a few of them, and
you and I are still here, Martha indeed. Well to
learn more about Susan mcgreeno Magreno PR agency, visit the
website for her agency Mcgreno pr dot com and to
(32:08):
see the wonderful clothing and to keep up with all
that she does. Follow her on Instagram at Susan mcgreno seven. Susan,
thank you so much for coming by and wearing the
shirt that I gave to you because we went shopping
one day and we all fell in love with this
same shirt. And Terry Blair also um when she comes
(32:31):
on the podcast, I'm going to ask her to wear
hers too, and Alex, we're gonna have to take a
photograph of our of us with this beautiful denim with
the big boat and shoulder paties. I love. It's a
lot of fun to talk to you, a lot of
fun to go down memory lane. But what's really great
(32:52):
about Susan mcgreeno and I think about Martha Stewart, is
that we're not living in memory lane. We are going forward.
It's all about the next We're only getting started, Martha,
only getting started. Thank you and thank you for everything
that you have done for me. And have a very
nice Thanksgiving. Thank you, Happy Thanksgiving.
Host
Martha Stewart
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