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March 29, 2023 49 mins

Sarah Carey and Thomas Joseph have been in the kitchen with Martha for a long time. These two culinary experts have been behind many of Martha’s food-related businesses: the informative television shows, the beautiful magazine stories, the inspirational cookbooks, the delicious food and beverage products, the essential kitchen items – and even Martha’s first-ever restaurant. They know how to find the very best ingredients and teach the very best culinary techniques. And they share with Martha a passion for cooking, testing, tasting, learning, and pushing the boundaries of creativity. Listen to these longtime collaborators share memories of amazing culinary adventures, must-have cookbooks and the recipes they can’t stop tinkering with.

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Whose taste. When you make a recipe you trust the most,
it better be me. From the beginning, food has been
one of the cornerstones of the Martha business. Over the years,
my colleagues and I have developed timeless, foolproof recipes that

millions turned to over and over again. Through it all,
I've had an amazing team by my side. Two of
the key players are Sarah Carry and Thomas Joseph. A
number of you know Sarah from Everyday Food and Thomas
from Kitchen Conundrums, the popular YouTube series. I'm sitting down

with both of them now to talk about their journey
into the culinary world, working with me Martha, and of
course their love for food. Welcome to my podcast, you guys,
thank you. It's so nice to have you here. And
I was smiling this morning. We were on The Today
Show right near where we record this lovely little recording

studio in Rockefeller's Center, and we were with a bunch
of dogs. Those are dogs are all for adoption. I
saw and the Today's Show Today shows a wild place
in the morning, so you know, they started seven am,
probably a little earlier, but seven am. And there are
dogs on this show. There's Hake burgers, which I was
then demoing after the dogs, and they asked me to

They always asked me to do these little extra things.
And they asked me to hold one of the dogs.
That's a cute dog. No, no, they're all they're all
miscreet dogs. They're all rescues, and they haven't had their
DNA ridge yet, but mine probably had five different kinds
of breeds in. Its very huge, though, and well behaved.
It's a very active morning. And now I'm doing my

favorite thing, which is the podcast, because I get to
sit down with friends with interesting people and really go
in depth about their careers and about what they do
for a living. And Thomas and Sarah, Thomas, you started
what year two thousand and seven, so about sixteen years ago.

Sixteen years is crazy. It's flown by, Oh it has
And you look exactly the same as the day you
walked in as this little You were a graduate student
when you walked into me. Thomas was getting his master's
in what subject? It's food studies at New York University.
But I was actually working on my thesis which was
based around fu fu, that Vietnamese everyday soup, right yea,

And I loved it. I love that he was really
being so absolutely like the finest detective finding the best
recipe and it was so exciting. And you have done
such an amazing job. Thomas is now our EVP of
food all Things Food at Martha Stewart Living and at
Sir La Thoms. Yeah, that's right. So it's really I mean,

you have your career has burgeoned, and you look tired
because Thomas works really, really hard. So let me get
to Sarah. Now, Sarah, you started when nineteen ninety nine, Oh,
nineteen ninety nine, so that many years is that I
keep saying twenty three but anniversary next year. And her

hair went has gone from a beautiful dark kind of
reddish brown to now a very beautiful silvery gray with
little tones that you have a little bit of gold
in your hair. Yeah, that just naturally happens to white
hair unless you do something to it, and I haven't
done anything lately. And Sarah's always had her own specific style.

She wears clunky shoes, oftentimes they're yellow, and she also
wears a real, real downtown clothing, which it goes with her.
It just goes with her. And you know why she
does all this because she grew up on a commune
in Woodstock, New York, a real commune with commune parents. Yeah.

So I did grow up on a commune. It wasn't
like a free love type of commune. It was more
of a political but really an artistic community community. Yeah,
which I compare. Your father's a painter, correct, And he
painted one of the fabulous posters for the New York
World's Fair in nineteen It was for Earth Day or

the original Earth Week in nineteen seventy. It's this incredible poster.
It came on the show. That was like the greatest
moment I think of his career. But it was such
a beautiful post. Yeah. And so it wasn't the World's Fair,
it was right, it was Birthday and what a great thing.
And uh and your mom is a jeweler. Yeah, beautiful jewels. Yeah, beautiful.

And they still live in Woodstock, New York. Yeah. Well,
this is it's so fun to sit down with you.
There's there's so much to talk about. What about the
food at Martha Stewart. Sarah started with me when I
had my daily CBS show, Ye and in Westbok, Connecticut,
we were doing the production in that beautiful studio. Yeah,

and we did so many shows from that studio with
so many gifts. What are your fondest memories of those days?
I still say this, and I said it to my
mom the other day. I remember when I first started
working for you. I had previously worked for a cookbook
author named Barbakafka, and someone that worked for you at
the magazine, Stefana, had worked for her before, and she

was the one who introduced me to you and to
everybody at the company. And I could not after I
got the job, I could not believe my great good
fortune that I got to do that every day, every
day go up there, create amazing things. But the kitchen
that we had up in Westport was had beautiful big

windows looking I put into a woodland, looking out into
a woodland. We had a garden on the property. We
had a beautiful commissary where we had lunch, and we
didn't mostly have lunch, but everybody got to eat there.
And we had all these incredible studios that were based
on your homes, and it was like cooking in your homes,

but in this like incredible vibrant community of people. You know,
it's it's fun to get on set every day with
somebody interesting. And the guests we had. I just remember
Russell Crowe coming on and talking about wines from New
Zealand and from Australia. He was an amazing guest. And
all the late night talk show hosts came on, and

the rappers came on. Yeah, we had a lot of
a lot of fun. But we created with Sarah and
we had a wonderful small magazine called Everyday Food that
evolved into a program with Sarah as the host, which
was on PBS. And what do you think about that show?
I mean, I loved that show. The great thing about

that was it was a very simple format. There was
myself and four other hosts, so there was a lot
of energy going on because we all were doing different things.
But the recipes in that little magazine, you know, your
concept for that, which was like very simple everyday cooking
for people who you know, were shopping at the supermarket.

The size of the magazine was designed to fit right
into your backs, like a reader's digest size. Yes, yes,
and it was kind of brilliant. And also I do
really feel like it was such a great compliment to
Martha Stewart Living, which was more elevated and you know
more about entertaining and lifestyle, and this was just about cooking.
And all the recipes had ten ingredients or less. Everything

was available at your supermarket and they were delicious. And
that that little magazine, Everyday Food, I think was the
basis for a lot of these meal kits that are
being sold, including Martha and Marley Spooky, because those recipes
again are about ten ingredients or less. They can all
can be cooked in less than an hour. The prep

time is simple, and those recipes have withstood the tests
of time. People still tell me that, oh, my favorite
recipes from Everyday Food. Yep, so many people tell me that,
even though and they've saved every single issue of that magazine. Right,
we had an amazing designer who designed the spinet magazine

Scott to have color coding, and so each year had
its own coding. So when you look at them all
lined up, it's the most beautiful thing, you know, they're
all it's very compact. And people do still with me
as well, tell me I have saved all of my
issues I pull out. They organize them by month instead
of by years, so that they can pull out a

whole may to get all the best recipes for May
and I love that because I feel like, you know,
that proves what a lasting impact you've had and what
we have provided to people. It really means something to them.
Oh it does enemies a lot to us who created
all this stuff, because it is an education for our readers.

It is a long lasting, lifetime commitment to good food
and recipes. And I'm thrilled with the result. And Sarah
had a big part to do with that, and she's
still working at Martha. I'm so happy about it because
we're working on our Roku show together. Now. Yep, this
is a This is a really intense bunch of shows

that we're doing, not only food centric, but also garden
centric and also entertaining centric. Now, Thomas, have you ever
worked in a restaurant? I have? Yeah, I mean well,
growing up, my father was a caterer, so something similar, right,
something to share. He was a big caterer in Buffalo,
New York. At one point in time, he had the

contract for the Buffalo bills for their stadium. So I
kind of grew up in the kitchen and then I
went to culinary school and I was working in restaurants
in Providence, Rhode Island, and then I started in TV
shortly thereafter, and that's eventually how I came to you
right as an intern. Originally as an intern, yeah, I was.
I was trying to figure out some way to get

into the Martha world. Um. And I actually I had
a colleague from a w GBH PBS show in Boston
who was the stylist on set. His name was Aaron Karamanus.
He did flowers for the Martha Stewarts. One of the
best stylists ever. He was so great. Where is he where?
I think he's in San Francisco, but I think he

travels the world. Now. He bought a house in Athens.
Aaron Karamanus he styled my that room in my packing
room that we called it's the packing room in my
Jim Garage. Oh yeah, he styled that so perfectly. He's amazing,
Oh amazing. He's really really amazing. I still try to

keep it as neat as he had it, but you know,
he was. She just knows how to do stuff. But
now the latest and greatest, um, I think accomplishments that
that Thomas has done well after he won his James
Beard Award for his fantastic show called Kitchen Conundrums. I

love that show and I want you to have another
one on Roku. Yes, and Sarah should be doing everyday
food on Roku too. My dream is Roku. I hope
you're listening, because now I'm announcing it publicly. We have
such talent, better talent than anywhere else on TV, and
Roku should be the leading food channel or a depository

repository of food content. And I think that we should
be producing Thomas's Kitchen Conundrums and whatever else he feels
like doing, and Sarah should be doing whatever she feels
like doing full time on TV. Okay, okay, I said
out loud, and that was one reason I wanted you
both on this show so I could say that out

loud on radio. Now everybody knows. Okay. But Thomas has
been working for the last two years on a major
your project, which is the creation of the Bedford, a
restaurant by Martha Stewart in Las Vegas in the Paris Hotel,
which is owned by Caesar's Right. And that is a
fabulous accomplishment, I mean really, in a very short time

from zero to a two hundred seat restaurant, and which
is so beautiful. Yeah, and it is like like one
of the nicest spots in Las Vegas. That's right, it
is so Describe it well. I mean the name the Bedford,
it's models after Martha's home in Cantona, New York, which
is also Bedford. I have to say this is part

of the reason Martha had said that, you know, working
all through COVID in the office, we had to be
because we had so much work to do. And ultimately
this partnership with Caesar's has been fantastic because they're really
great partners and when they do something, they do it right.
So we were really comforted in that, and it took

us about two years maybe a little over them over
two years to really flesh out the concept have everything built,
because that was actually the thing that kind of extended
our timeline just because it was also during COVID and
a supply chain, supply chain chain. But it was a
really great project to work on the first restaurant for

the Martha brand, which I think is fantastic, And it
also just layered in what kind of I do on
a daily basis, which is so rewarding to me is
I get to work with all of the content that
you know, Sarah has created over the years, that Martha
has created over the years, anyone that kind of touches
the brand over the past forty years. I get to

take that content, those recipes and translate them into products,
whether that be a baking mix or a menu item
a restaurant the restaurant. Yeah, and it is a vast
amount of content to go through. Absolutely. I still I
have a good memory. But when I tried to remember,
where was that? Where did that recipe first appear? Was

it in the magazine? What month? What year the magazine is?
Let me see it started in It's about thirty one,
thirty two years ago. Um, where is that, which month,
which issue, which page? Or was it in one of
the books? And we're working on our hundredth book right now.
That's amazing. So and many of those, more than fifty

of them are food related books. So there is a
tremendous amount of content. And uh, and it's fun to
there are a few people who know, you know, probably
pretty much where everything is. Sarah knows a lot, I
know a lot. And then we have Kim Doomer that
I was going to say, yeah, we have to get
Kim on the on the podcast So Great, So Great,

because she knows where every all the bodies are buried,
every single body recipe bodies. So the restaurant has taken
up a t end this amount of time. But you know,
using those recipes and adapting them for a restaurant distribution
is really something. It's a challenge, is a challenge, and

you're not in the kitchen of the restaurant. You are
trying to teach those people in the restaurant how to
make something and work with the chef, and work with
the Sioux chefs, and work with all the workers in
the restaurant. And it's such a very nice crew, by
the way, absolutely you have put together and making a
restaurant like that. Thomas also had to use his skills

of good taste. Based in good taste, because we had
to choose the dishes, we had to choose the colors,
we had to choose the silverware, the glassware, the flatware.
You and Kevin did an amazing job. And I would
come into the office and look at all these big
tables laden with many different kinds of glasses, and I'd
have to choose. I'd have to be the curator and

the editor all that. You know, it's a lot of work,
and but all food related because you want the wine
to look good and taste good and drink well out
of the right kind of glass. So it's a very
complex business, that whole restaurant business. So what are you
working on right now? What's your big challenge right now? Well,

what I'm working on right now is how do we
evolve beyond this first restaurant? And I think we have
a lot of ideas. You know, Martha has many homes
and each of them has a distinct look and feel.
You entertain differently at each of these homes. So right
now I'm working on a way in which we can
kind of capitalize on that to create some other concepts

so we can have more them. We've talked about fish,
that's right, yeah, then, and Las Vegas needs a good
fish restaurant. Absolutely. There's the demographic in Las Vegas or
those coming into Las Vegas is changing. There's a lot
of families, there's it's shifting from what it was. It's
almost like an amusement park, fabulous resort for all onlies

of all ages right right, and all different tastes. So
there's there's this openness to kind of diversifying menus and concepts.
But I think it's just it's amazing what you can
accomplish in Las Vegas. There's just it. It's so much fun.
It's a very nice place. So, Sarah, we have made

so many things together, what's your favorite? Do you have
a favorite thing that we've worked on? The thing that
I like to do the most with you, which is
something that we are both very passionate about, is make
jams and pies, things that are very seasonal, particularly to
the summer. But I think that we both have a

passion for preserving the bounty of whatever is around. So
pickling and preserving and making jams and things like that.
I think that those are the things that I've loved.
But the greatest challenge we have these croissant in front
of us. And I remember when I was working at
the magazine getting an assign to make a cuissant recipe,

like a cuissant one on one for the magazine, and
we had made cuissant on the show. I think with
Julia Child, if I'm not mistaken, and so I used
that information as the basis, but I was quite nervous
because I didn't consider myself to be like the elevated
baker or the like technical baker. And I worked really

really hard on that, and you know, you tasted them
and we decided like what changes we wanted, what kind
of dough, like, all of these things, and it was
a real accomplishment for me that I was very proud of.
It's those moments and those opportunities that we have throughout
our careers here working together to push the boundaries of
what we think we're good at and learned something new

while we're creating great content for people. So maybe that,
I mean, it's hard to pinpoint one rawberries or we're
gonna have a good crop of strawberries, and I hope
a really good crop of raspberries is oh slint, and
I hope a good crop of gooseberries. So all right,
I'm ready, get your get your jars ready, and we're

gonna make some jam. But but Sarah and I did
a couple of jams segments yea for the show and uh,
and the jams are delicious, and Sarah has been making
secretly behind the scenes marmalads. Oh yeah, they are so good. Oh,
thank you. You should do that. Um, I guess maybe

next year during citrus season or maybe in the fall,
whenever your citrus is ready, because it's kind of funny.
I have this woman that I love to buy citrus
from in California named Laura Ramirez, JJ's lone daughter Ranch
And I go to California with an empty bag just
so I can bring citrus back, which is ridiculous, but
I do it. Oh no, no, it's definitely not ridiculous.

And I bring cases of strawberries right and they smell
of the whole plane. I carry them on and put
them on the overhead yea, and people are just behind
because they s also good. Yeah. So what happens behind

the scenes when we're working on food is very different
from what you see on the camera. Describe just creating
a kitchen conundrum, Chamas, Well, I mean, I think it's
all about testing and perfecting, that's really I think at
the crux of it, you know, whether it's creating a
recipe or creating a product, it always comes down to

one what are we trying to accomplish. How do we
test it to make sure it's the very best recipe
or the very best process, or we're showcasing enough of
the technique so that the view or the consumer whoever
wants to recreate this in the end is able to
do it just as flawlessly as we are. So, what's
your favorite kitchen conundrum kitchen? And describe what is a

kitchen conundrum? Sure? So kitchen conundrum is a you know,
a kitchen problem, um that one might have. And originally
the concept for this show was to use kind of
viewer comments as content generation so that we would be
able to solve their problems, not necessarily in real time,
but we would take it back to the test kitchen, um,

solve the problem and then like one, what's what's on
one of the hardest ones? Well, I mean we've done
really simple things and really complex complex things. One was about, um,
what happens when your caramel crystallizes? Like how do you
fix it? And it's actually very simple. You just add
more water to the pan and continue to cook it
using um some of the tips about you know, brushing

the sides of the pan, or Martha likes to add
the lid um to create the condensation. So um, simple
kind of kitchen fixes like that, and then we solve
other problems as well, like what you should do if,
by chance you roast your turkey and it's overcooked, how
can you fix it? Um? It might not be one

hundred percent of a salt, but UM. Carving the turkey
and putting it on a platter with a little bit
of um turkey stock or broth really helps to kind
of reinfuse the meat with some moisture. So it's not
a perfect salve, but it will definitely help. Yeah. Yeah,

And unless the turkey just crumbles as you get it
off the bone, that has happened has happened. I think
it happened nowhere with a chicken. I don't think I've
ever done that to a turkey. Maybe a store bought turkey,
one that had been frozen. Remember, turkeys were not always
what they are now. And by the way, you're never

gonna have to buy turkeys again because I have bourbon
rids in the chicken coup. Oh really yep. And she
and I bought a very beautiful pair, a male tom
and and a female and she's laying eggs like crazy
and they're all hatching. Yes, so we're gonna have baby
turkeys well, and they're going to be ready for Thanksgiving.

They are beautiful too, and they will be delicious. So
we spend a lot of time testing and testing and
testing recipes. What qualities should every good recipe include? So Sarah,
you start that because you're you're really doing more of
that now than Thomas is even doing. He's done plenty
he has. I mean, I think that as a brand,

and you know, for you and Thomas, myself and everybody
who's worked here, the qualities that we look for our clarity, right,
we want the ingredients to be accessible and if they're
not like immediately accessible, to have a place that we
can offer where they can get that. It's much easier
now in the days of Amazon, But in the old

days we were always like there was a long list
of all of the sources in the back of the magazine.
It's much easier now with Amazon. But you know, providing
people with the information that they need a clearly written
when the steps should be clearly written. They should be
in an order that makes sense from a timing perspective.

Measurements should be accurate. Measurements should be accurate. You know
something that I've been thinking a lot about lately, and
is that a lot of brands us included for years
when we're doing baking stories of always used cup measurements,
but a lot of people are transitioning to a combination
of cups and grams or ounces, and I think that that,

you know, not everybody only uses the metrics. You know,
a lot of figures since you know a lot of
people don't have scales. So I will always be able
to I will always want to provide measurements that come
in cups and teaspoons. But I do think that the
accuracy and the full proofness of weighing is really important

these days because you can there's a lot of information
out there, and what we want for our recipes is
for them to rise up to the top in terms
of quality and you know, success rate and a flour
it can be wildly different depending on how you measure it. Yep.
And like Thomas was saying, recipes that are tested by

somebody other than the person that creates them, so that
it's it's ensured that they are as written they will
work is something that we have always taken great care
with and I still think it's very important. I totally agree,
you know what about taste, Thomas boost taste. When you
make a recipe you trust the most, it better be

me I think it's it's a collective, right, Like that's
what we typically do. We all get together, we all
try things as a group, and we kind of analyze
the outcome and say, does this have the right texture,
does it have the right taste? Could it use a
little bit more acidity or sweetness or salt? Often times
it's it's salt. That's what we're doing making this hundredth book.

You know, I have not been in the kitchen cooking
the recipes myself as I'm doing now for this hundredth
book for a while. So I cook for myself all
the time. I cook for my friends all the time.
But it is so interesting. I have everybody taste everything
and in the kitchen for the next thirty days or

whatever it's going to take to photograph these hundred recipes.
And it's very important because some people taste something very
different from what I taste. Yea, I trust myself. I
trust my own taste a lot, but I also want
to see if other people agree. So so a having
a little committee is good when you're making a recipe, Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

And when you're testing a new dish, what do you
look for? What do you look for? Thomas in a
new dish. I think it has to be Um Well,
I always look for interest, like is this interesting, What's
what's new and different about it? I think you know, Martha,
you had mentioned Everyday Food and the creation of all
of those recipes and how we have really used them
as a as an archive for our Marley Spoon business,

our meal kip business. And part of the reason why
people love our meal kip business so much is because
of the unique flavors, because we celebrate ingredients. It's not
just the ingredients, you know, we push the boundaries and
people seem to really like that. They want to try
new things. So interest is always really important. Are we
discovering something for our consumer, for our reader, for our viewers.

One of the recipes I'm putting in the hundredth book
is the Alexis's famous chocolate chip cookies, and we have
two people helping me prepare the food and one of
the one of the women, actually scooped it out with
a like a quarter cup ice cream scoop, and I said,
I don't think it's going to work because, first of all,

scooping them out like that, it makes them around compact
ball on the cookie sheet and not they might not
spread like the opposed to spooning it out and not
refrigerating the dough. Everybody's refrigerating cookie dough now, but that
dough doesn't work refrigerated. You have to sort of scoop
it out of the bowl as you after you make

it and bake them. And we tested, we tested the
greased cookie sheet. This is all during I mean, this
is a recipe I have used for forty five years
and we are still testing. I found the last time
I made them, they didn't spread when I put them
on parchment, but if I put them directly on the
baking sheet, they did. Though, if that's right, you cannot

use parchment. You can't use parchment, and you can. And
the best sheet of all to cook them on is
the iron stre baking pan, not an aluminum. It doesn't
work on aluminium. And it doesn't work if you pam it,
you know it doesn't work. You cannot pam. It has
to crawl, ye crawl concentric rings on the And you

know forty five years ago when Alexis developed the recipe
for me, that recipe, that's an evolution. Sarah Gross, who
worked for me in my catering business. She had this
delicious cookie recipe and I asked her for the recipe
and she wouldn't give it to me. So I said
to Alexis, here, Alexis, make I gave her the cookie
and I said, here, make this recipe. And in two
tries she had the recipe. So that was you know,

and or Sarah. You know, it could have been Sarah's
famous chocolate. Sorry Sarah, but it's Alexis. But now we're
adding salt halfway through baking. I'm just sprinkling mald and
sea salt on top. Boy, were they delicious. Mike's Organics
came by yesterday, mister Mike, and he took home almost

the whole pile, of course, Yeah, because they were really good.
But bigger, better, less baked, better, salt delicious. I mean
it changes everything. That's the evolution of a recipe. And
I like that a lot. I that we continue to
evolve our recipes even after we know that they're workable

and perfect and authentic, and they can still be improved
maybe or at least changed a tiny bit. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah,
Thomas has also worked on a lot of our mixes.
Those are very hard to do. They are. They're definitely
challenging to get because ultimately, in the end, the consumer
has to participate with it. Yeah, and price right, and

we want it to be very consistent. We want it
to be just as delicious as if you made the
recipe from scratch. That's kind of our motto when creating
any type of food products. So it can be really
really challenging, but when it happens, when you unlock it
and it's a success, it's really rewarding. And I don't
think many of our readers or listeners know about gold Belly,

that's right. And Thomas has been working with this company
called gold Belly, which is a seller of unique, delicious
recipes from famous baker's, famous chefs all over the United
States and uh and we have contributed to gold Billy
our some of our delicious cakes. So now this is

this is what we go through to see And you
think that we don't think about every single taste and
every single recipe. We think about everything so much and
not not not too not too much enough. And that's
really what it takes to make a recipe, to develop
a food stuff. It takes a lot of work and
thought and tasting. Yes, it's a it's really crazy what

I think. One of the perks of the job, too,
has been the travel. We have traveled many, many, many
places and got to taste food everywhere. Sarah, where's your
favorite place to go? Well, my favorite trip that I
went on with you was to Mexico City. We were
shooting for the UM the Old show, the Live show

UM a piece there and we went to Mexico City
for I don't know, I think it was probably only
eighteen hours, maybe it was a little bit longer, and
we ate like ten meals. I remember you and we
were all staying in this hotel and we had eaten
three or four meals, and you said to Kevin and myself,

you were like, I think we're gonna skipped in and
we had a ten o'clock dinner reservation and we were
both like, oh my god, goodness, this is great. We
can go to sleep. And then at nine thirty you
walked in and you were like, Okay, let's go, and
we had yet another meal. But it was such an
incredible experience because whenever we go anywhere for the show,
or for the magazine, or for any thing that we're

working on for the brand, we have all these incredible
doors open to us, and we had the range of
food from tacos in this little tiny restaurant that was
just you know this big you know the size of
this room, which is, you know whatever, fifteen feet long
and eight feet wide to the most elevated meals, all
in a single trip. And that's I remember riding a

bike around the Yes, I remember the park in Mexico
City with the mayor of Mexico City. Yeah, and we
filmed him talking about the city and its development. And
I had so much fun on that trip. I love
that trip. What about you, Thomas, what's yours? I think
my favorite trip I don't know if it was it's
necessarily a was a great culinary trip. But my favorite

trip with you was going to Qatar and we were
out there for a food and wine festival. I think
it was their first food and wine That was so fun. Oh,
I love that. But we had an amazing opportunity to
really see the country and to experience it. And um,
I mean I remember what was called like dune crashing
or something where we were out in SUVs in the

desert going down these giant mountains of sand, yeah, sand.
We were in the in the dunes. My favorites, Well,
I love I love Japanese food, I love Chinese food.
So whenever we are japan trips have been amazing too.
I don't think either I'm on board for going now.
But Thomas's well, yeah, we have to do. We have

to do a Japanese shows. What about ingredients? What are
you thinking about now in terms of ingredients, Is anything
hopping up? Well, I think both of us are just anticipating.
We're so eager for spring to start so we can

get our hands on some of that produce. Move away
from all of the potatoes and apples and freshness. Yeah
left over, But I mean we're so kind of blessed
here in New York with all of the amazing purveyors
that we can go to for really great ingredients, like
any new discovery though in terms of an ingredient, yes,

and I'm going to bring some in for both of
you to try. So. I recently, I was just walking
around and I walked by Dispana. I hadn't been there
in a while, and I just walked in and I
spent half an hour just staring at the wall of
all of the different products that they have. Um. This
is a story specializing in the foods of Spain and Um.

I happened upon this jar of olives, beautiful green olives,
but they were stuffed with preserved lemons, and I was like,
I've never had this before. I'm going to buy it.
I'm gonna try it. I brought them home. I like
my rock and salty lemon. Um. Yes, but in a
briny kind of base with the with the olives. And
they are delicious, oh, really balanced, not like overpowering delicious.

They would be fantastic in a martini, you know, sometimes
you want both the olive and a twist at the
same time. Um. But they're really delicious. And salads as well.
M have you discovered any new vodias. I haven't actually
had it, but I know when you went to EMP
you made a cocktail with saltas and I also saw
it on another menu, so I'm very curious. Sorry, Yeah,

that was sharp saltics. I am planting seltice right now,
right so they cuss between celery and let's lettuce right. UM.
I've been noticing it on menus. It has this beautiful
trusssi que when it's when it's I don't know what
you did to make. Yeah. And the inside is whiter

like the heart of celery. Yeah, and it's um and
it looks like it looks like a big fat stalk
of broccoli, but of brighter, brighter green, lighter, brighter. So
I'm very curious about that. I I we you know,
we recently made a salad on the show with the
chefs from don Angie, which is an Italian restaurant here,

and they used chrysanthemum, which is an Asian green, but
in a caesar salad. So I'm very I made that.
I made that for my friends the other night. You
did that same salad. It was good good, they'll be
so happy to Yeah, I made that and uh. And
then I went to another restaurant up north. I went
to Stissing House, yea, which is we're going to film

there is. This is in a little town called tine
Planes way up in like the Millbrook area of New
York State, and the people call it upstate. I guess
it is upstate. And and they put in their salad
not only pomegranate seeds, which I've done before, but they
cut up the little Japanese flat per simmon. Yeah, they

peeled it and cut it into diced it and put
that in the salad. What a game changer. That's so delicious.
So now every one of my salad, says Simon Simmon,
and well that's great. See that's you know, we do
absorb things. I mean, we're talking about recipe development and
recipes before. This is how creativity happens, right, and you'll

take that idea and it will morph into something uniquely
your own. And I think that that's what is so
inspiring about this, like going to places seeing what they're doing,
and for us we really simplify things. We have to
get to social media because both of you have been
very informative and very creative and very instructive in your
Instagram accounts, and I know that you have a lot

of followers. People really enjoy enjoy your your your posts.
So Thomas, your address is Wow, it's Tojo eight to
seven t o Jo, which after Tojo Thomas. Let's yeah
Thomas Thomas, Joseph Joseph Thomas. Yeah. I always get people that, Yeah, oh,

I know, two names. What do you call that when
you have two first names? I don't know. Oh, there's
a specially for that. Yes, indeed, some people call that
a double barreled name. Look it up. I will, I will.
But you both have been so informative on your accounts.
So what do you try to what do you try
to show the show the instagrammers? Um? I think ultimately

like it goes back to interest for me. What what
am I finding at you know, either the grocery stores
or the farmer's markets? Um? And what do I bring
home and want to cook with? And um? Whenever I
cook at home, I usually favor a lot of fresh ingredients.
I like a lot of herbs. I like a lot
of fruits like citrus, um, lettuce. I'm a big salad

ead or so UM. I would say all of my
items are kind of bright and colorful, and I think
people are enjoying that. And what about you, Sarah? I, Sarah,
you're a little bolder. I'm a little boulder. I'm a
little more eclectic. Thomas's you know, focus tends to be
very straightforward, like he shows what he's eating for dinner

or a snack. And but but you're so beautiful perfect
because there beautiful everything is on a beautiful market and
not embarrassed to show a crumb. No, I am not I.
You know something that I do and you know, maybe
this is controversial or weird, is that I will often
talk about my process and successes and failings, things that

I want to change, or I'll I'll show something in
the midst of it's not quite perfect yet. Well, you're
showing a journey of the journey of a risk, which
is very different from what Thomas shows the the finished
product finished, And I want to I want to be
at your house eating some of those things, Thomas, I
really do and uh. And Sarah is Sarah is experimenting

and trying and chasting and uh. And then you'll see
it in the pages of a magazine or you'll see
it on our TV show. And that's that's That's very
different approaches and very interesting too. So what are your family?
What is your family? And friends? Thomas goes to Buffalo
Still to visit his sister who has how many children?
Which is five boys? Five boys from what? And what ages?

There's seven and unders, Oh my gosh, five of them.
What a loud place that must be. It is, so
what do they want you to make all the time.
We grew up in a food family, so they're very adventurous.
Their palets are you know kids. It's so interesting to
see what they like. What they like like. They like
acidity and vinegar and sour tastes and I would have

never thought that. So they just want me to cook
when I'm home. They want to take a break and
not have to do it. So um, I like to Experimentum.
I also like to indulge when I'm in Buffalo as well,
some chicken wings. There's great food in Buffalo. It's a
little comforting. Thomas and I have Buffalo in common because

my maternal grandparents lived in Buffalo their entire lives after
they came from Poland, and my mother was born there.
And I still go there to visit my brother Eric.
And uh, it's right near Niagara Falls that you always
go to the falls. When was the last five um,
probably like four or five years ago. You should keep

visiting it. It's so beautiful. It's really nice to visit.
I think in the winters you get to see all
of the ice that goes along with it, and it's
really impressive. It's really impactful. But I went last May. Yeah,
I went to Buffalo because I wanted to go see
this Frank Lloyd right houses that are there which were
so incredible, and I went to two of them. But

I also then did go to Niagara Falls on the
Canada side. Oh yes, it's beautiful. That's that's that's really
prettier than the New York side. It's harder to get
to though. They're very strict at the border. They pulled
me over. Oh no, yeah, oh no. So um. What
is one meal that you'll never get tired of? Thomas?
When you think about going out for dinner, what do

you really want? Oh? My gosh, Well, I love a
French fry. Any restaurant I go to, if they're a
French fries on the menu, I will try them. Highbrow,
low brow, all of the above. Your favorite restaurant for
French fries. Oh that's a good question, I have to say,
and I usually wouldn't say this, Like, I think Perry

Street has delicious fries. They're almost they akin to the
McDonald's style fries, so very thin and slender but tender
on the inside and crisp on the out. Yeah, that's
Perry Street. On Perry Street in New York City on
the Hudson River, Pastis has pretty good fries. It's just
so hard to get into pasties these days. Well, it is, Yeah,

I don't know. It depends on what time you go.
I feel like one of the purposes of my job
is that I can get into it anywhere you want
pretty much. I might have to go a little. The
time might be a little problem, but I can usually
get in it. I like to eat early June. I'd
rather eat early, Yeah, and then that's the best time
to try to make a reservation. What about you, sir,

what's your favorite go to food? Well, if I'm going out,
it will generally be something Asian. I love Vietnamese food,
So if I can find a good fun or something
like that, it will be that. But I like to
I mean, I love a fry obviously, but I like
to go especially fries. We were talking about this, well,

I was talking about this on my Instagram the other day.
I feel like it's one of the one of things
that I don't really want to make it home because
I never feel like there is good. Um, I can
make good fries, but I'd rather have somebody else make them.
But I like to eat foods when I'm out that
are something that maybe is a little bit different than
what I cook at home, a cuisine that I'm not
as familiar with. So I'm going to ask you some

rapid fire questions. Right, I haven't done this to anybody else,
but she's your good questions. So what's the last cookbook
you got? Well, the last cookbook that I got is uh,
it's called Yogurt and way amazing book. And it's the
best yogurt in the world. Um, yep. And it's called

the Yogurt White Mustache. Yes mustache m O U s
t A c h E. Yep. It is delicious. And
that cookbook is beautiful. Yes, I have it with me ik. Well,
the last cookbook I took home isn't necessarily a new cookbook,
but it was a Michelle Rue cookbook and um, eggs sauces.

It was eggs. But I have his pastry and I
have his book on sauces. His books are fantastic. It's
nice to flip through old books that they're not so old.
They're like only about thirty years old. Maybe that old.
I'm just twenty years you know. There's so many cookbooks
that come out in the market these days. It's like

a constant flow and so kind of going back to
the library and opening up some of those pages. It's
like it's the one cookbook everybody should have in their library.
Who wants to go first Martha Stewart's Cooking School about
Martha Stewart and Sarah Carry that's a very good cookbook. Um.
Aside from that, I'm a huge fan. I think I've

said this a million times of the Joy of Cooking,
the original Joy of Cooking, well, not the original, the
nineteen right, So which one? The nineteen seventy five edition
is my favorite. That's the one that I grew up with.
And it's got some I mean, it's not so much
for um recipes for everyday dinner, but it's it's a
very interesting read it. It speaks a lot to cooking

in the mid twentieth century. Um and no, but if
I if I want, if I want a simple recipe
for something, I'll find it in that book. Also, they
teach you about everything. I mean, honestly, there's how to
like skin a squirrel in there. You know, from how
to skin a squirrel to how to make all different
kinds of pastries. It's really comprehensive and I just love

it as both a book to cook from and also
a research tool. What about you, Thomas, Well, it's not
a recipe based book, but on cooking and Food by
Harold McGee, because I'm a right, you are a nerd,
and that is a very useful book. Harold McGee on
Cooking and Food. What is the last interesting place you

went out to eat? Thomas? I would have to say,
I mean, I am Lebanese, right, um, but I haven't
really gone out in your city to a lot of
restaurants and so um. It was a couple of months ago,
but I went to Sage I think, and it was
like a homestyle Lebanese restaurants. It was very comforting and
it was the food was delicious. What about you, sir, Well,

I have to say most recently was this restaurant Narrow,
which is right here in Rockefeller Center. Yep, upscale Korean food,
very elegant and honestly, I went there two days in
a row because I had gone to that event, and
they served me a rice actually it was chrysanthem or rice,
so there was chrysanthem in it. But their rice preparation

is oh excellent good, And so I went back the
next day because I wanted to have more of that rice.
And I'm not a huge rice eater necessarily, but it
was just perfectly cooked short grain. Um, really really lovely.
It was a place that the best place I've eaten
recently is a restaurant in Salt Lake City, which you

know it is not the culinary center of the world,
but it was called raw Topia. And uh. And this
is an an Arab guy also from Lebanon, but what
delicious food. And he is really centered on the organic,
on the farm, grown, hand picked ingredients, really delicious veget

and it's vegetarian for the most part, not completely. He's
coming on the show. What items should you always have
in your fridge? Whom Lemons? Yeah, I always have lemons,
and I always have cucumbers, and I always have sour cream.
Random little facts about me. Um, what's your favorite Sarah? Well,

I mean I'm trying to think other than lemons, something
that I always have to have in my fridge. I mean,
I always have dairy in case I want to bake,
so eggs, butter, milk, and lemons. Thank you so much
for taking the time to sit down here in a
Rockefeller's Center. Um, I know that two of you are
very busy on helping to teach and inspire so so

many people about food. To keep up with both Sarah
and Thomas, uh, please follow them on Instagram. So anyway,
thank you so much for coming, of course, and you
have to come again. We'll talk food, food, food forever
and ever. We should do it sort of Thanksgiving one
would be fun. It's a good idea. Let's do a hotline, Yeah,
the Martha Sarah and and Thomas Joseph hotline to do

all the time on radio. I think it's a great idea.
Thank you, Bye bye Hi
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