September 25, 2025 • 42 mins
Everybody wants to know – what are Martha’s secrets for keeping her skin in glowing good health? In this episode, she introduces her partner in her new skincare business, Elm Biosciences, Dr. Dhaval Bhanusali, to talk about the science behind their new products, five years in the making, as well as skincare essentials, myths and misconceptions. They are joined by Dr. Raja Sivamani and Dr Saranya Wiles, two of several hundred board-certified dermatologists who are on Elm Biosciences’ medical advisory board. You, too,can capture Martha’s signature glow!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
My listeners will remember my guest, doctor Dobel Bonasali. He
joined me on the podcast earlier this season. I'm delighted
to have him back to talk about a project that
has been many years in the making, our company, our
new company called ELM Biosciences, and a new serum and
skin supplement that is now available to the public. Doctor
(00:27):
Bonisali is a board certified dermatologist and an entrepreneur. When
Dobel and I started the business, it was imperative to
us to build it on a base of solid medical expertise.
He gathered hundreds of leading dermatologists to create an advisory board.
Two of those doctors are here with us today, doctor
Raja Sivanani, so nice to have you here and to
(00:50):
see you again, and doctor Saranya Wiles. Welcome, Dobbel, Raja
and Serena. So we have lots in laws of questions
and lots to discuss today because I am sitting with
three amazingly accomplished dermatologists who are working on the future
of our skin. Our skin, our largest organ Did you
(01:15):
know that the skin covers our entire body? It shows
the wear and tear of everyday life and what we're
trying to do in our business is to prolong the
vitality of the skin, the luminescence, the luminosity, the beauty
of the skin. And that's what we're going to talk
(01:36):
about today. So, Dobbel, what motivated you to develop a
new system of skincare?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You know, I think as a physician, as a scientist,
you see what is on the market and you realize
very few innovations exist. And I think, you know, thankfully
we're in a position much because of your help to
really push the field forward. And that was the idea man,
all of this stuff is how do we look at
where we are, but really look at the future and
build towards that.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Explain the A thirty breakthrough, which is what we call
our magical serum A thirty in a way that we
can all understand its benefits. Because skincare and skin and
the progress in skincare is so complex, there's so many variables,
there's so much going on. Can you explain that more
(02:24):
clearly for all of us?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Of course, So we looked at one of the main
tenants of skincare, which is your antioxidants. You you have
your SPF, you have your right and all those are
every dirm loves those. When it comes to antioxidant I
think there's a lot that all of us would wish
existed a lot more. And with this complex, we started
working on certain ingredients in our offices, myself, doctor so Money.
(02:48):
These are studies we've been doing for years, and we
get you know, quote unquote breakthroughs in our office. Usually
a big conglomerate might come take that ingredient and bring
it to market seven years, ten years, twelve years from now,
and we realize, as much like how you do farm
to table, we wanted to do lab to patient. How
do we get this to the right people's hands as
quick as we could, you know, under the guidance of science.
(03:09):
And so we built this complex that really had a
few different you know, thought processes. When you look at
a vitamin C, for example, it can be pro inflammatory.
I think doctor Solimany did the studies on vitamin C
being prone flammatory, so it can be irritating to your skin.
A lot of times these ingredients don't last more than
a few minutes on your skin, or if you just
open the bottle, they can start deactivating just because of
sunlight or environmental factors. A lot of these things won't
(03:31):
have any other benefits outside of maybe some early photo
protection and then that's about it. So we built this
complex that is anti inflammatory, a three oh complex. Yeah,
and so it's anti inflammators. You can tolerate it. It's
an antioxidant. It's a physical quencher versus a chemical quencher,
which means a chemical quencher you can neutralize the free
radical and then it breaks down and then you don't
really have too much more efficacy left because there's nothing
(03:54):
left to help. This one is a physical quencher, so
it actually lasts much longer, you know, although we both
don't like the anti aging word aging well more appropriately,
but it stimulates collagen. There's a host of other benefits
with the molecule. And we've been lucky enough not to
just work on this, you know, in the last couple
of weeks or the last couple of months. This has
been years in development, and I don't think most of
the listeners know this. But for traditional skincare brands, they
(04:17):
might reach out to a contract manufacturer and ask for
you know, vitamin C serum or as like acid, you know,
and they'll send them something or peptid zerum or peptize
sium correct and it's usually ready made exactly, and so
with something like this, and I think the basis of
ELM is really to bring novel or unique excuse me,
new molecules and complexes that are driven by science for
(04:38):
our colleagues and for obviously our consumers and patients.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I like the word novel, but I hate its connotation
because that was the word used with Corona virus. Corona
virus when I can, yeah, new and different, and I
want to be new and different, but I don't want
any association with corona virus. Of course, of.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Course different, you know double can I add something there? Actually?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
You know, with the ingredients, it's kind of going from
farm to lab to then our skin, which is really
cool because when you look at a seedles in drown,
if you look at the actual inspiration for it, because
I worked with them at the very beginning when they
were like looking at how to develop this, and it
was an awesome company, cite Theon that really came up
with this ingredient. It was a cross between kurkcuman, which
(05:23):
is found in turmeric and also ginger. If only we
could just grow the a seedles in your own But
that's what's so unique, and it has all of these
properties that are way beyond vitamin C. You know, you
can you can block all kinds of oxidative stress. So
I just want to say, like, you know, so inspiration
from nature, I feel like, is how we're so unique,
not novel?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Unique?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Right, excellent? How do you see germatologists playing a role
in bridging the gap between science and consumers?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Novel?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
This is becoming more and more important to all of us,
every woman and every man. I know they're visiting metologists
on a regular basis, trying to improve the quality of
their skin and their looks.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think a couple things. One is, you know, I
think the average consumer wants science, and that's where they
see the dermatologists become patients. People just want things that
work right. It's not marketing. They just want to know
what works. I myself, as a scientist and dermatologist, I
look like the two people here at this table I
look up to in terms of the work that they do.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So doctor Willes does some of the most cutting edge
work around longevity, exosomes, things like that, where it's not marketing.
You see the word plastered everywhere, but it's her work
in her lab that really sets the the next five
ten years of how we look at these ingredients. And
I think now again we're shifting from maybe the marketing
age the scientific age. And you know, I think when
(06:47):
you're building something like this, you really do think about
that patient, the one who's maybe not been talked to
for many years. And I think we live in a
world where fleeting social media trends become mainstay marketing campaigns
for brands. But you know, good science is timeless and
I really believe that, and that's part of it. You know,
it's a testament to what we're trying to build. It's like,
how do we build something that people will enjoy for
(07:08):
years and years and years to come.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So, doctor Bonasali, can you talk about the role our
board of dermatologists plays in our company? This is unique
and fabulous and so inspiring that we have so many
interestsed dermatologists working with us.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Absolutely, I think that is one of the more unique
things of any brand probably out there that we have.
We have I think officially over three hundred and fifty dermatologists.
I think we're creeping towards a much larger number at
this point, but the dermatology communities coming together, I think
the exchanging ideas is necessary. We live in a world
where we do communicate. Doctor Wilds's from Minnesota. Doctor civil
(07:48):
Money is from California. We have hundreds and hundreds of
dermatolgists across the country that are providing input into our
formulas going through We had last week a bunch of
dermatagis going through our science asking questions, providing their insights,
their experience of certain ingredients. And I think it really
builds a dynamic exchange of information at a level nobody's
(08:09):
seen before, and it will help not just guide us today,
you know, as we launch officially today, but over again
in the coming years, and even our future launches will
all be guided by hundreds of dermatologists and again we
learn from each other. And that's I think one of
the more beautiful things about our field.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So we'll start talking to doctor Raja. Can I call
you doctor Rajah?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Doctor Raja is a very young, handsome, well dressed dermatologists
sitting here in our offices who just flew in from Sacramento.
I did, yeah, And is that where you live?
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I live in Sacramento, although I do have a place
in Hawaii now, so I keep.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Moving farther and farther away from the mainland. We gotta
bring you back.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And so, how does your environment play a role in
your dermatological work.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, you know, that's a great question.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I had some really important mentors, and when I was young,
I actually thought I was going to go into nephrology,
and then I found a dermatologist who was just so
inspiring did a lot of research, and I totally flipped
and I said I'm going to do dermatology and I've
never looked back. And then in California there's so much
food science and so much nutrition that when I went
(09:20):
to residency, I trained in iervatic medicine because I wanted
to learn about nutrition. And then I just worked a
lot with the food scientists there and the nutrition nutritionists
over there as well. So I think the environment was
like much beyond my training. It was like all these
cool people everywhere. Now I get to hang out with
doctor wils and doctor Bonessalli, which I mean big movers
and shakers, so it's like so fun to do this.
(09:42):
But I think that's where it kind of developed from.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
But I like the intersection of what we put into
our bodies and what is displayed on our skin as
a result.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
You know what's really awesome they've now started to look
at and we were just kind of chatting about this
even earlier, about how there's more science now when we
look at aging and some of the.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Major aging kind of models that were built.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
One was built in New Zealand where they looked at
how fast people age and how can different factors maybe
predict how fast you age, and one of the highest
correlations predictors of internal aging, which was like mind blowing.
I wasn't ready for this. Everybody always talks about this
was how fast your face was aging. Now, it doesn't
mean if you inject a bunch of botox and filler
you're gonna return the internal aging. But I think it
(10:26):
speaks to the fact that we have to go inside
out in addition to outside in.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I think you have to have the combo.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
No, I totally agree, and that's what we're trying to
do with our biosciences, with the supplements and the exterior
application of serums or creams is very important. I'm a
great proponent of eating well and as the doctors came
(10:54):
in this morning. I was eating the seeds of a pomegranate.
An early pomegranate is still pink nut, but I think
that's the type of pomegranate it was. And I also
have a mint tea with fresh lemon in it, and
I'm drinking tonic water, which is one of my favorite
things to drink because I'm I'm a great believer in
(11:14):
eating anti oxidant foods foods that are also anti inflammatory.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So I love that because my number one favorite fruit
is actually pomegranate.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Oh it is.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And I'm not just saying that. I literally love pomegranates
to death.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
In fact, I hope my neighbor doesn't hear me, but
he has a pomegranate tree that puts a few pomegrants
over the fence, and I picked them without anything.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
So because otherwise they'll go to waste, That's what I
thought they will will. And so after pomegranate is what
you eat.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Well, you know, I take a vegan approach.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
I had a lot of diabetes in my family, and
like every single male had diabetes, and my grandmother had diabetes,
and so I kind of had to really shift a
lot of my eating from being so carbon heavy. So
I eat a lot more proteins that are plant based.
And I'm vegan nothing against eating animal, but I just
took that slant because I thought it would really get
me disciplined. I love fruits. I love things that are colorful,
(12:08):
and I'm so.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Lucky to just be able to eat like in the.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Bread basket of them. Well it's not really the bread basket,
the fruit basket of America. That's that's where I learned
how to cultivate arted chokes and and all the different
and the pomegranates. The Palm Wonderful Company is in California,
and they make my beautiful extract of pomegran iss s
which I use in my in my iced tea. Oh yeah,
(12:33):
do you ever ever use that?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah, well I've I've spoken to them in fact, and
I mean there are yeah family.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
And then not only that, the the ibatic herbs, like
we were just talking about, the Turmerics, the gingers, the circumans,
the cumans uh you know, Ashwa Ganda, all of these
are actually herbs that we can cook with.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
After cere money was the Driving Force brand TOOLCI or
the Holy Basil in our in our supplement. Oh yes,
really good data around.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
It, yeah, really really great and stress control. But it
just tastes good.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
They don't have to eat. You don't have to like
make it taste healthy.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
It can taste it already tastes healthy naturally. You No.
I eat a pomegranate today in pomegranate season because I
just love I love the effect. It's sweet and sour
and juicy and delicious. And I've learned how to take
the seeds out very easily. Most people don't eat pomegress
because they can't get.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
The seeds out, that's true.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
But if you bang it with a wooden spoon on
the on the skin, they all come flying out.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Well, you have all these tricks in the trade all
the time, all the hacks.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
You know, THERE'SRM hacks, but I think these are more
useful exactly nutritional food hacks.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
So what is the role of inflammation and oxidative stress
really play in the realm of skin aging?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, you know, this whole concept of inflammating has taken
storm now, which I think we paid attention to.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Before.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
We used to say oxidative stress would lead to DNA damage,
but now we realize oxidative stress leads to inflammation, and
inflammation leads to oxidative stress, and it's a big cycle
that all leads to faster aging and senescence. And so
you know, anytime you're thinking about controlling aging, you have
to look at can we get high quality antioxidants that
(14:12):
can hold up which was the whole point of vitamin
C on its own. Awesome, but we've got better stuff
out there now, and I think that's the point. And
then bringing inflammation down is so important from the inside
out too, and that's why the use of curcuman is
so important because that is such a great anti inflammatory,
turmeric and curcuman. So yeah, bringing inflammation down and bringing down.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
How do you add that to your food? How do
you add turmeric and curcumin to your food?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Well, you could do it as a supplement that's through
ELM bio, right, So that's one. But yeah, I mean
you can just add it directly in, you can sprinkle
it into your food. I think it's really good to
also put it into your smoothies.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
It's so funny. I have some sometimes I have patients
that are like, oh, I've been eating smoothies every day.
I don't know why, I'm like, don't feel as healthy.
I'm like, tell me what you do, and they put
all this awesome stuff and then like then I put
a scoop of ice cream, and I'm like that might
be the and.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
All kinds of sweet, sweet fruits that are just not useful. Right,
My green juice is so healthy that I drink every
single day green. And tell me, tell me if anything
in here could be harmful in any way. I grow
all my own vegetables, by the.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Way, Okay, so first of all, you're way ahead of everything.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, no, really. And my my smoothies, I don't call
them smoothies. I call them green juices because they're not
smoothies at all. I'm really doing them in a juicer.
I juice a whole cucumber with the skin. I juice
several stalks of celery with the leaves. I do a big,
big handfuls of spinach fresh spinach leaves with the stems.
(15:47):
We have parsley, and we have a big piece of
ginger with the skin on. I don't peel things for
the because they're just going through a juicer and you're
just taking whatever. The juicer takes what it can out
of the out of the vegetables and half of an
orange with a peel on.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
That's you know, you leaving the pelon is so brilliant.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It is because that Chinese eat the peels, you know,
the peels medicine, Yes, chalk full of the antioxinans that
we need. And then I don't put fruit in it,
No fruit, because I don't care about the sweetness. I
care about the wellness of it. So and is there
anything else I put in there? You know, it depends
on whether what other vegetables. I don't put anything burpy
(16:28):
in it, like like kale or cabbage. I don't want
to burp. I don't put carrots in it because there's
too sugary. So is that a good mix?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Oh my gosh, I think I want your recipes.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, it's really really good.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
I think it's brilliant for you to keep the fruits
out in the juicer because then you lose a lot
of the fiber. But the nice thing about these the
greens that you're putting in there is I mean, you're
you're putting everything in so yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Think and if there's if I do have a pomegranate,
it'll put the pomegranate seeds in it too, because I
love the chase of pomegranate.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
That makes two of us.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, and that's what I I use every single day.
And I was adding collagen powder to it, but I've
found that that didn't really make too much difference. Yeah,
and I don't trust all those collagen powders anyway.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And you can actually get it from protein powders if
you really wanted to anyway.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
So that's that's my juice.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
That's what I really I live on in the morning.
It's an energy boost too, farm to a table exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Body. Yes, so there you go, Yeah, you're live in it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
So how do the skin's internal and external pathways work together?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Well, you know, the skin isn't in isolation. It is
the biggest organ, but it is so invested with blood
flow that honestly goes everywhere in the body that when
you think of the skin, I think we initially used
to think, oh, skin is just exterior, but now we
see like the gut health, the nutrition you're putting in
your body. In fact, we did studies looking at if
(17:53):
you take a certain marked water, it was totally safe,
but you can track it to the skin, twenty percent
of it ends up in this So a huge load
of what you eat ends up all over the body,
but in the skin too. So the networks are clearly
from the inside and from the outside. Now, the outside
is pretty awesome because it protects you from all the
bad things that you don't want getting in. But boy,
(18:15):
if you do clever things, you can deliver really good
things into the skin. It's so cool that, like, if
you eat a lot of these caratenoids which are found
in yellow, orange, purple vegetables and whatnot, they actually honed
to the skin. I was a bioengineer before I went
into med school, and we look at you.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
There so many things for a young man. You have
such a vast knowledge of so many different fields.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Well, I think, I just you know what it is
you meander in life, and then you tell the story
as if you meant to and so I think, like
I can say like, oh, I meant to do this,
but truly I was, like I was trying to find
my way. But you know, some of these chemicals will
go as you eat them, they'll sit in the skin
and they'll stay there for a long amount of time,
which is so cool because It's not just like you
(18:59):
eat and that's done. If you make it a habit,
you literally will basically like put it into your skin
and higher loads. In fact, in Britain they did a
study looking at people that ate more cratnoids versus not
and they got a little food tan and then people
graded them as looking more attractive. So now I tell
people eat your tan, don't expose your tan. So that's
another way.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, bro, that's interesting. Yeah, and smart, I mean that
you want you want that you want that healthy look.
You don't want to look like a pale to do you?
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And where's the next frontier of integrative dermatology.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
It's getting the rest of medicine to see that integrated
dermatology is the best way to treat our patients. And
I think without people like doctor Bonsoali, doctor Wiles and
you know, the work that we're all doing together collectively
changing minds, I think people are now seeing that integrative
medicine should be medicine. And people ask me this question,
maybe you guys get it too, How can why do
(19:57):
you call it integratve medicine? Just call it medicine. And
then what I say is, yeah, I'm just waiting for
everybody else to adopt the integrated medicine. Then we'll call
it all medicine. And then I think looking at objective measures.
I think bringing more and more science to this. And
doctor Wills has done some amazing work. We were just
just talking about some other stuff that we could collaborate on,
but bringing more objectivity to this area where it's very
(20:19):
easy to just be very frufrough and say like, oh
this works and thumb nail it. But let's measure the
size of that thumb, you know, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So, serrenda, this is doctor Sarana Wiles who lives.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
In Rochester, Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Rochester, how far is that from here?
Speaker 5 (20:35):
It's about one thousand miles away. But I'm from Westchester.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Oh you are, so what took you to your new place?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
So I moved to the middle of Cornfields to go
to the Mayo Clinic. I did my training there and
stayed on as a dermatologist.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Okay, well that's good to know. Now I have a
contract at the Mayo Clinic.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
Come visit anytime that would be.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I have never been there.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
It's a great place. We have three million people that
come to Rochester every year.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
It's incredible And what do you do there?
Speaker 5 (21:01):
I'm a dermatologist scientist, so I two days a week
I see patients in clinic and then the other three
days I manage a research lab.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
And working on focusing on what So.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
We study everything from regeneritive medicine, so understanding how these
new toolkits are coming in for regenerating or repairing the skin.
And we also work a lot on skin longevity, which
are these hallmarks of aging or the root cause of
why the skin ages. And we put it together with
a really cool tissue engineering aspect which is three D
bioprinting of the skin, so validating how these treatments are
(21:34):
working through a human relevant system.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And how does that? How do you do that? I
like three D printing.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
The three D printing system is just like a printer,
so just like you would have printer inks like black,
cyan magenta and the scian always runs out first, right,
so we have inks bioing always, but you have to
buy the pack again with all three. So the idea
is that you can get bioinks of curetinocytes, melanocytes and
fibroblasts and use them just like a printer would. But
(22:01):
print them in different layers, so you can actually model
aging skin. So we can model a thirty year old skin,
a fifty year old skin, or an eighty year old skin,
and we can model diseases like atopic dermatitis or exema.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Very interesting, And what is cellular senescence which is something
that we are fighting against and how can we defend
against it?
Speaker 5 (22:22):
Yeah, so cellular sinesens. It's this really exciting time because
we're understanding root cause of age, so why do we
age at the cell and molecular level. Sinessens is actually
an evolutionary conserved mechanism. So early sinessens is actually a
good thing. It's a it's a pause, a break on
mutations that can happen from different types of cancers or insults,
(22:42):
so it's a stopping mechanism. But chronic senessence, like in
the context of inflammaging and other insults, can be bad.
So think about them as like weeds in the garden.
They are bad. They are kind of affect their local environment.
They are bad apples that affect kind of.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Why does it start?
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Initially it's a mutation and instead of taking a cell
and dying, which is the apoptosis, pathway that can take
a lot of energy and sometimes your body just doesn't
have that energy, so it kind of puts it under
house arrest. So these sinessen cells are just staying there,
but they're creating havoc in their.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Intre just accumulating and showing up in various ways with
like creepy skin.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Exactly, red spots or exactly they affect what about bruising.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Bruising, all of the above. So they affect normal cells
from functioning, so you start to see pigmented changes, you
start to see laxity or looseness of your skin, all
because they're not functioning well.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And how do we combat that.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
So there's a lot of new defenders like antioxidants, their
sinesens targeters, and that's what you know. Ingredients like acetyl
zinzerone are very exciting because they're looking at direct sinesens
pathways and seeing how we can turn down the noise
that's coming from these sinessen cells. So it actually helps
the environment be functional and better.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So what are some of the most exciting events is
that we find now in regenderative medicine for the skin.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
For the skin right now, I think the three D
bioprinting is very exciting. Ninety percent of drugs are failing
in clinical trials, and even the ingredients that we're utilizing
in skincare, we don't have really good evidence to show
that these are human relevant and this is how it's
actually going to be working.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So it give me one example, one additive to like
skincare line that would be useless.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
So I think we can talk about a couple of
different lines, but I think, you know, there's overreliance on
a lot of things, like you know, vitamin C. We
talked about it being low grade inflammation, but there's overreliance
on antioxidants that maybe are antiquated, but whether they're newer
ingredients that are more effective and target these pathways directly.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And that's what we're we're looking for for our skincare
line and adding to our products. Absolutely the things that
you guys are working on, and it's just so interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
One thing to mention and not to get too far
into our future endeavors, but you know, I think how
we look at the studies that we do, we don't
want to do what everybody else is doing. We want
to actually have objective measures and almost reset the bar
for what brands should look for when they're actually bringing
products and ingredients to market. I think, if it's not us, again,
who's going to do it? Right? So having three hundred
and fifty plus dermatologists who do this for a living,
(25:17):
who have been responsible for pharmaceutical breakthroughs and things like that,
I think this is an incredible opportunity, not just for us,
but for science as a whole.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
So I wanted to ask a question of each of
you and all of you, what is the biggest breakthrough
in the last five years in skincare.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
So I think right now to that point of understanding
science better, we actually know that there's actually two different
clocks of how we age. So there's a biological aging,
which are internal signals. See these are molecular signals that's
very specific to individuals. And then there's the chronological age,
which is the birthday candles, So you may be sixty
five years old but actually have a biological age of
(26:06):
forty five or a biological age of seventy five.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
How do you know?
Speaker 5 (26:10):
So this is where we can design epigenetic clocks. Doctor
Civiamoney and I were talking about utilizing results like DNA
and Arnie sequencing to see if we can create biological
clocks that are.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Specifically or want I want to be a Can I
be a guinea pig?
Speaker 5 (26:24):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I love to be a guinea thing. I love this
kind of thing. I had my GNA red or your
genome red quite a few years ago, and I found
it fascinating. And my friends who were with me would
not let me know anything about their tests results. They
didn't like what they heard.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
I think it's because they didn't have the green smooth
your recipe, green.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Juice, green juice recipe. Right, what about you, doctor Sibamani.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Well, you know, I think the biggest breakthrough, really it
isn't going to be anyone ingredient.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
It's how we measure things. And we've gotten much better.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
It used to be everybody did clinical grading and you'd say, oh,
you look about twenty percent better, you look about thirty
percent better, which was good you had expert graders. But
now we're just way better at it. Now you can
measure like what is the true elasticity, Like you have
devices that will pull the skin and snap it back
and measure all of that, or how much water are
you truly losing through the skin? But now we've even
(27:18):
evolved to look at can we collect skin without hurting
someone non invasively, so you just have to come in,
you can take it off tapes, or you can just
scrape it off their face, no bleeding, no issues, and
then you can go send that off for analysis. So
we're getting much better at finding earlier changes and then
tracking that over time. And a lot of people will
will ask me like, don't you want a big change.
(27:40):
I'm like, yeah, you do want a big change, but
you know, a lot of lifestyle shifts that we do,
like the green juice or other things that we're doing,
are going to be small, incremental changes that you make
over years and then you can look back and say, wow,
that was a huge difference, but it didn't impact me
to the point where I had a lot of side effects.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
And so I think that's where we're at now, and
I think that's the big.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Looking for help with outside effects or damaging side effects
in other places. The green juice is great for hair, Oh,
I mean helping my hair. So I mean I believe
that I've always had good hair, but it's better than
my friends. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Can I add another thing? Another big breakthrough is that
we used to think sunscreen was enough. And I'm a
big proponent of sunscreen. I know there's a lot of
controversy that's out there about oh, does it lead to
cancers or not? And I just want to put that arrest.
It does not lead to cancers. That helps to reduce
skin cancers, absolutely, but it's not enough because sunscreens have
figuratively and to be kind of punny here, have a
(28:36):
lot of holes in them because you know, once the
sunlight gets through, now what, because you can't protect every
part of your body. People have shown in studies that
when people put on sunscreen their's skip areas. If you
do spray sunscreen, I call it partially community service because
you're helping the people next to you.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So that's good.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
So you know, so polluting the air maybe polluting the air.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
So I think you have to have an antiox and
that you're putting directly on the skin, that you're augmenting
your second layer of defense and maybe third layer of defense.
So I think that's a huge innovation, like just thinking
about how we approach and.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Also the polypodium.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
I mean it's been oh yeah and being you should
mention that too though, Yeah, no, So you mentioned yours polypodium.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
There's been I don't know, seventy plus published studies. It's
a photoprotective anti oral antioxidant, you know, dermatois dermatologists. We
recommend it to our pre cancer patients, skin cancer patients,
malasma patients, and those who want to age well. You
know the way. And this is more macro discussing it.
How we've educated our own patients. If you're going to
go to the beach and where your sun's going to
of course it takes an hour to get a sunburn,
(29:36):
it might take you an hour and a half to
two hours to get that same sunburn because it gives
you an extra layer of protection. I think a lot
of this to doctor Civilmoney's point is that as much
as we think we're doing a great job, it might
not be adequate, particularly over time. Right, you might have
bad days. One bad day in the sun, you can
you increase your chance of skin cancer dramatically. But to
answer your question, I think them breakthrough for me is
actually more macro. It's how people are thinking about aging,
(30:00):
I think, or even medicine. We used to only go
to the doctor when we're sick. I think now patients
are realizing I should go when I'm healthy and think
about the future. The decisions you make today will dictate
how you are ten years from now, twenty years from now,
And we didn't really have that. You know, you only
go Okay, I feel achy, maybe I'll go see somebody.
But now this whole idea of wellness visits of thinking
about you know, I don't think the lab test world
(30:20):
is quite I mean think it's a little bit more
marketing right now, but eventually we will have the ability
to detect and lab tests certain things that are wrong
with us. Imaging studies at scale, which are safe and
done correctly, can help hopefully detect things before they become
an issue. So I think healthcare, with this beautiful mix
of healthcare and technology, I think it's going in a
very positive direction. There is a lot of obviously, I
(30:41):
think with social media, a lot of people maybe going
off the beaten path and a lot of misinformation out there.
But I think it's also important why a lot of
doctors are being more front facing, having doctors giving them
a platform like you've given you know, all of us
with science. I think it's necessary because we have to
do the things that you know, our kids generation and
the kid skins generation will benefit from. That's how we
(31:02):
like to think about all of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So what is again a group question. If there's one
thing you wish every person did daily for their skin,
what would it be?
Speaker 5 (31:13):
I think all dermatologists would agree sunscreen. It's the highest
return on investment or ROI that you can do for
your skin health. And I want to just define a
concept that doctor Boniselli brought up earlier, which is the
idea of a skin span. So we're all living longer, right,
and that's called life span. Of how long we live
and then how well we live is called the health span. Now,
(31:35):
the skin, which is the greatest mirror to our systemic health,
has its own functional longevity or how healthy aging occurs
in the skin at the functional level, that's called the
skin span. So I think to optimize skin span, sunscreen
still is the foundation.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Do you have a recommended sunscreen?
Speaker 5 (31:52):
So I believer of a lot of different brands. I
think more than the brand, it's optimal reapplication. So you
want to have at least SPO thirty or greater and
reapply a certain specific amount that is enough coverage a
broad spectrum sunscreen often every two hours.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Every two hours. So I see mothers on the beach
with their little kids applying it at least every two hours,
which is exactly what they should.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Can I say? I love skin span?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Yeah, thank you great lifespan, lifespan, health spans and skin span.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
We've trademarked it maybe.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Okay, skin span excellent, so put TM after it if
we ever use it in ours.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Of course, I do love the objective measure. I think
that's something that's necessary and people claim so many things,
but how do we prove it? And that's been a
very important conversation point in the Durham world, is you know,
the marketing aside, if it really works, we want to
shout on rooftops, but prove it please?
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, And I think that goes back to like what
I how I would you know answer? What you were
talking about is, gosh, there's so many preventive things we
could do in Western medicine. I love Western medas, but
our approach in Western medicine has largely been early reactive.
We wait till something goes wrong and then we like
intervene instead of Now we've got enough knowledge that we
can be very preventive about things and live the life
(33:13):
that we want live the preventative kind of way that
we need to be, so eating right, putting on extra
kind of protective measures. That's what I'm really hoping everybody,
like in Vibes, is that if we make small, incremental
things that just become our lifestyle, then you can live
to the better health span and better skin span.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
There you go catching on, So what is your one
thing someone should do absolutely without fail.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
Well, I think they need to focus on the kind
of foods that they're eating and just make sure that
because the foods we take for granted and sometimes some
of it's cultural, but really like lean into whether this
is going to also be healthy for me, and learning
how to cook and work with food is really important.
And I think that when you start living that kind
(34:02):
of a lifestyle, you start to look at other aspects
of your life, I've found, and you'll be more mindful
of your skin from the outside. But I think everybody
should really take a hard look at how they're eating
and not just take it for granted, but really have
to like assess, hey, what's the best way for me
to eat, and what's the best way for me to
be preventative and doctor B.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I mean these guys took my number one, number two
SPF and then obviously eating well. I'm just I could
be remiss not to mention. As a physician, sleep also important.
I think letting your body rest and regenerate and rejuvenate
important things. I think you and I sleep.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
The same thing is lying in bit away.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
That's that's a different that's a different thing. And I
think unfortunately, as the social media generation we're in right now,
a lot of people their mind is always spinning.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I found this older I've gotten and a lot with
my patients as well as you know, again, your sleep
really does it's necessary. And you know, the one thing
I've learned as a physician is you know, the body
does tell you, it gives you hints, all right. You
have to protect it, you have to allow it to rest,
you have to give it all the nurturing things that needs.
But it's you know, it's really meant to serve you.
And I've had patients who are losing hair and really
(35:09):
it's end up showing some sort of systemic illness. Even cancers.
I've seen people start losing weight where they shouldn't be
losing weight. So your body is going to be telling
you all these things, but you have to care for it.
We only have one body, one life, and you have
to put you know, the good products inside of good
ingredients inside of it, on top of it, and also
let it rest and rejuvenate every single night.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Well that's all very very sound advice. And now we
have some rapid fire skin misconceptions.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Okay, love it.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Let's discuss some common skincare beliefs. I want you to
tell me quickly, true false or it depends on why
thank you start?
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Thank you for it depends wiles.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
All right, let's do this.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Expensive products always work better.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
It depends. So I will say that price does not
equal the product quality. So you want to be looking
at active ingredients and formulations because you could be putting
premium gasoline into a bicycle and it's not the right
formulation or the right fit. So the active ingredients is
the key.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I have a fourteen year old granddaughter who reads every
ingredient before she will eat or try that product.
Speaker 5 (36:20):
The yuca app has gotten quite popular.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Is it funny? They're really paying attention to ingredients. That's right,
I love it.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
That's great, though, I think it's really nice. People are.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, a lot of natural ingredients are always safer.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
No, it does depend.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
But like poison ivy is natural, and if you rub
that all over your body, boy, that's going to be
a nice trip to the er.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
So natural doesn't mean better.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Natural with science, with some tradition, with some knowledge, then yes,
but not just in a box.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Doctor B. Pores can open and close.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So you're poor.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I mean, I'm assuming you're referring to poor size and
things like that. So no, you actually have one set
of pores, but the infrastruct around pores can change actually
indirectly with you know, when you gain weight, you actually
a lot of times have more oil. And think about
these again, these pores are now full of oil and
need to extend. And so you know, as we get older,
collagen breaks down that infrastruture, that wall becomes a little
bit weaker, so you want to when you start filling
(37:15):
those pores with things, the walls might start bending a
little bit more. So that's why we use certain ingredients
that stimulate collagen. We use photo protection so we don't
break down that collagen. Those things are very very important.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Oily skin doesn't need a moisturizer.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
So oily skin does not equal hydrated skin, so oil
is not equal water. So we still recommend a lightweight,
non chominogenic moisturizer to keep that hydrated skin.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
And how can you get rid of oily skin.
Speaker 5 (37:44):
There's a lot of different exfoliance or cleansers that we're using,
so just making sure that you're cleansing your skin in
the morning and at nighttime if you are oil prone
using noncominogenic products.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Sleep has little impact on skin heilth. I think we
just touched on.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
That, but oh yeah, that's definitely false.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Sleep is a big one. In fact, they've shown that
if people reduce their sleep to just even one hour
or two hours and you really lose a lot of sleep,
your transatpadermal water loss, which is how quickly you're losing
water through the skin, totally skyrockets, and so you can
definitely have a much more age look if you're not sleeping.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Well, genetics matter more than skincare and how we age.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I would say that's true.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
You know, it's just one of those things where you
know over time, what part of the country, part of
the world we're from. All those things play a role,
right we know this with just basic disease. How you
present with a certain disease if you're from one part
of the world versus another is completely different. And so
in terms of aging, I think all these things do matter.
But just like every study has shown, it's not just genetic,
it's environmental. And they've shown twin studies where one twin
(38:49):
smokes the other one doesn't, and the major differences you see.
So I think it's part of the story and a
big part of the story, but it's not the only
part of the story.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Sunscreen is only for sunny days.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
So that's definitely not true. So I definitely recommend sunscreen
at all times. Like I said, it's the highest return
on investment for your skincare, even on cloudy days.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Retinal thins the skin over time.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
No, actually it's the opposite, because retinol will exfoliate, so
if you have a little bit of a thickness to
the skin that's unhealthy, it will thin the skin, but
the retinol will actually help to produce collagen. The problem
with it is very irritating and a lot of people
don't tolerate it well long term exactly, and we have
(39:35):
better ingredients now that work similar to retinal's but just
they just are tolerated way better. Name one Bakuccio for example.
We did the original study on Bakucho. We published, Yeah,
we published in the British journal with the clinical study
and bakuchill has the same sort of pathways. And now
there are more interesting ingredients which maybe down the line
will be things that we incorporate into even ELM as
(39:57):
we go along. They're better ingredients out there than especially
especially ELM.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Especially ELM.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Absolutely, I'm all for this side. I mean, I really
pay attention to ingredients.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Also, I think, you know, I say, like retinal and
vitamin C where maybe like the previous generation, so it's
not wrong to use them. But I also don't drive
my car from the nineteen fifties if I want to
get down the highway faster.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
You know, they're better things to use nowadays.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
So you don't eat skincare in your twenty.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Cheese, so that is false.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think actually a good skincare regiment probably starts when
you're eighteen, nineteen years old. I mean a lot of
our young patients are on retinoids for their acne. But
also I think there's interesting studies around skin barrier and
people with roseasia and different kind of conditions where not
really it's a compromise skin barrier that is the result
of it. So I think caring for your skin early
really sets the tone for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
And the higher the SPF, the better the projection.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
So the SPF is actually only determined the UVB protection.
So you want to look for a broad spectrum sunscreen
that has UVA and UVB and reapplication.
Speaker 6 (41:07):
Is really important. So every every hour, every hour or two, yeah,
especially if you're going in and out of the water exactly.
I thank you so much for your insight and for
your participation in ELM Biosciences, and you're continued, I hope
help with the product. It's on the product line that
we're developing and doctor b I look forward to years
of success with this fantastic new venture.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Absolutely, it's a very exciting time for all of us,
and there is so much misinformation out there, but the
truth is with the right science, simple habits and trusted products,
we can all live well and age well. That's why
I'm so excited about the work that we're doing at ELM.
Thank you, Davil Raja and Saranya for sharing your expertise
(41:51):
with our listeners. This is the kind of program our
listeners tune in for because they get some real, meaty
truths and information. Ellen Bioscience's Dual Pathway skin system products
are now available for pre order at ELM Biosciences, on Instagram,
and on elmbiosciences dot com. Thank you, listeners. We'll see
(42:14):
you next week and hear you next week.
My listeners will remember my guest, doctor Dobel Bonasali. He
joined me on the podcast earlier this season. I'm delighted
to have him back to talk about a project that
has been many years in the making, our company, our
new company called ELM Biosciences, and a new serum and
skin supplement that is now available to the public. Doctor
(00:27):
Bonisali is a board certified dermatologist and an entrepreneur. When
Dobel and I started the business, it was imperative to
us to build it on a base of solid medical expertise.
He gathered hundreds of leading dermatologists to create an advisory board.
Two of those doctors are here with us today, doctor
Raja Sivanani, so nice to have you here and to
(00:50):
see you again, and doctor Saranya Wiles. Welcome, Dobbel, Raja
and Serena. So we have lots in laws of questions
and lots to discuss today because I am sitting with
three amazingly accomplished dermatologists who are working on the future
of our skin. Our skin, our largest organ Did you
(01:15):
know that the skin covers our entire body? It shows
the wear and tear of everyday life and what we're
trying to do in our business is to prolong the
vitality of the skin, the luminescence, the luminosity, the beauty
of the skin. And that's what we're going to talk
(01:36):
about today. So, Dobbel, what motivated you to develop a
new system of skincare?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You know, I think as a physician, as a scientist,
you see what is on the market and you realize
very few innovations exist. And I think, you know, thankfully
we're in a position much because of your help to
really push the field forward. And that was the idea man,
all of this stuff is how do we look at
where we are, but really look at the future and
build towards that.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Explain the A thirty breakthrough, which is what we call
our magical serum A thirty in a way that we
can all understand its benefits. Because skincare and skin and
the progress in skincare is so complex, there's so many variables,
there's so much going on. Can you explain that more
(02:24):
clearly for all of us?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Of course, So we looked at one of the main
tenants of skincare, which is your antioxidants. You you have
your SPF, you have your right and all those are
every dirm loves those. When it comes to antioxidant I
think there's a lot that all of us would wish
existed a lot more. And with this complex, we started
working on certain ingredients in our offices, myself, doctor so Money.
(02:48):
These are studies we've been doing for years, and we
get you know, quote unquote breakthroughs in our office. Usually
a big conglomerate might come take that ingredient and bring
it to market seven years, ten years, twelve years from now,
and we realize, as much like how you do farm
to table, we wanted to do lab to patient. How
do we get this to the right people's hands as
quick as we could, you know, under the guidance of science.
(03:09):
And so we built this complex that really had a
few different you know, thought processes. When you look at
a vitamin C, for example, it can be pro inflammatory.
I think doctor Solimany did the studies on vitamin C
being prone flammatory, so it can be irritating to your skin.
A lot of times these ingredients don't last more than
a few minutes on your skin, or if you just
open the bottle, they can start deactivating just because of
sunlight or environmental factors. A lot of these things won't
(03:31):
have any other benefits outside of maybe some early photo
protection and then that's about it. So we built this
complex that is anti inflammatory, a three oh complex. Yeah,
and so it's anti inflammators. You can tolerate it. It's
an antioxidant. It's a physical quencher versus a chemical quencher,
which means a chemical quencher you can neutralize the free
radical and then it breaks down and then you don't
really have too much more efficacy left because there's nothing
(03:54):
left to help. This one is a physical quencher, so
it actually lasts much longer, you know, although we both
don't like the anti aging word aging well more appropriately,
but it stimulates collagen. There's a host of other benefits
with the molecule. And we've been lucky enough not to
just work on this, you know, in the last couple
of weeks or the last couple of months. This has
been years in development, and I don't think most of
the listeners know this. But for traditional skincare brands, they
(04:17):
might reach out to a contract manufacturer and ask for
you know, vitamin C serum or as like acid, you know,
and they'll send them something or peptid zerum or peptize
sium correct and it's usually ready made exactly, and so
with something like this, and I think the basis of
ELM is really to bring novel or unique excuse me,
new molecules and complexes that are driven by science for
(04:38):
our colleagues and for obviously our consumers and patients.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I like the word novel, but I hate its connotation
because that was the word used with Corona virus. Corona
virus when I can, yeah, new and different, and I
want to be new and different, but I don't want
any association with corona virus. Of course, of.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Course different, you know double can I add something there? Actually?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
You know, with the ingredients, it's kind of going from
farm to lab to then our skin, which is really
cool because when you look at a seedles in drown,
if you look at the actual inspiration for it, because
I worked with them at the very beginning when they
were like looking at how to develop this, and it
was an awesome company, cite Theon that really came up
with this ingredient. It was a cross between kurkcuman, which
(05:23):
is found in turmeric and also ginger. If only we
could just grow the a seedles in your own But
that's what's so unique, and it has all of these
properties that are way beyond vitamin C. You know, you
can you can block all kinds of oxidative stress. So
I just want to say, like, you know, so inspiration
from nature, I feel like, is how we're so unique,
not novel?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Unique?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Right, excellent? How do you see germatologists playing a role
in bridging the gap between science and consumers?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Novel?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
This is becoming more and more important to all of us,
every woman and every man. I know they're visiting metologists
on a regular basis, trying to improve the quality of
their skin and their looks.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think a couple things. One is, you know, I
think the average consumer wants science, and that's where they
see the dermatologists become patients. People just want things that
work right. It's not marketing. They just want to know
what works. I myself, as a scientist and dermatologist, I
look like the two people here at this table I
look up to in terms of the work that they do.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So doctor Willes does some of the most cutting edge
work around longevity, exosomes, things like that, where it's not marketing.
You see the word plastered everywhere, but it's her work
in her lab that really sets the the next five
ten years of how we look at these ingredients. And
I think now again we're shifting from maybe the marketing
age the scientific age. And you know, I think when
(06:47):
you're building something like this, you really do think about
that patient, the one who's maybe not been talked to
for many years. And I think we live in a
world where fleeting social media trends become mainstay marketing campaigns
for brands. But you know, good science is timeless and
I really believe that, and that's part of it. You know,
it's a testament to what we're trying to build. It's like,
how do we build something that people will enjoy for
(07:08):
years and years and years to come.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So, doctor Bonasali, can you talk about the role our
board of dermatologists plays in our company? This is unique
and fabulous and so inspiring that we have so many
interestsed dermatologists working with us.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Absolutely, I think that is one of the more unique
things of any brand probably out there that we have.
We have I think officially over three hundred and fifty dermatologists.
I think we're creeping towards a much larger number at
this point, but the dermatology communities coming together, I think
the exchanging ideas is necessary. We live in a world
where we do communicate. Doctor Wilds's from Minnesota. Doctor civil
(07:48):
Money is from California. We have hundreds and hundreds of
dermatolgists across the country that are providing input into our
formulas going through We had last week a bunch of
dermatagis going through our science asking questions, providing their insights,
their experience of certain ingredients. And I think it really
builds a dynamic exchange of information at a level nobody's
(08:09):
seen before, and it will help not just guide us today,
you know, as we launch officially today, but over again
in the coming years, and even our future launches will
all be guided by hundreds of dermatologists and again we
learn from each other. And that's I think one of
the more beautiful things about our field.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So we'll start talking to doctor Raja. Can I call
you doctor Rajah?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Doctor Raja is a very young, handsome, well dressed dermatologists
sitting here in our offices who just flew in from Sacramento.
I did, yeah, And is that where you live?
Speaker 4 (08:42):
I live in Sacramento, although I do have a place
in Hawaii now, so I keep.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Moving farther and farther away from the mainland. We gotta
bring you back.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And so, how does your environment play a role in
your dermatological work.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, you know, that's a great question.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I had some really important mentors, and when I was young,
I actually thought I was going to go into nephrology,
and then I found a dermatologist who was just so
inspiring did a lot of research, and I totally flipped
and I said I'm going to do dermatology and I've
never looked back. And then in California there's so much
food science and so much nutrition that when I went
(09:20):
to residency, I trained in iervatic medicine because I wanted
to learn about nutrition. And then I just worked a
lot with the food scientists there and the nutrition nutritionists
over there as well. So I think the environment was
like much beyond my training. It was like all these
cool people everywhere. Now I get to hang out with
doctor wils and doctor Bonessalli, which I mean big movers
and shakers, so it's like so fun to do this.
(09:42):
But I think that's where it kind of developed from.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
But I like the intersection of what we put into
our bodies and what is displayed on our skin as
a result.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
You know what's really awesome they've now started to look
at and we were just kind of chatting about this
even earlier, about how there's more science now when we
look at aging and some of the.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Major aging kind of models that were built.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
One was built in New Zealand where they looked at
how fast people age and how can different factors maybe
predict how fast you age, and one of the highest
correlations predictors of internal aging, which was like mind blowing.
I wasn't ready for this. Everybody always talks about this
was how fast your face was aging. Now, it doesn't
mean if you inject a bunch of botox and filler
you're gonna return the internal aging. But I think it
(10:26):
speaks to the fact that we have to go inside
out in addition to outside in.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I think you have to have the combo.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
No, I totally agree, and that's what we're trying to
do with our biosciences, with the supplements and the exterior
application of serums or creams is very important. I'm a
great proponent of eating well and as the doctors came
(10:54):
in this morning. I was eating the seeds of a pomegranate.
An early pomegranate is still pink nut, but I think
that's the type of pomegranate it was. And I also
have a mint tea with fresh lemon in it, and
I'm drinking tonic water, which is one of my favorite
things to drink because I'm I'm a great believer in
(11:14):
eating anti oxidant foods foods that are also anti inflammatory.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So I love that because my number one favorite fruit
is actually pomegranate.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Oh it is.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And I'm not just saying that. I literally love pomegranates
to death.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
In fact, I hope my neighbor doesn't hear me, but
he has a pomegranate tree that puts a few pomegrants
over the fence, and I picked them without anything.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
So because otherwise they'll go to waste, That's what I
thought they will will. And so after pomegranate is what
you eat.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Well, you know, I take a vegan approach.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
I had a lot of diabetes in my family, and
like every single male had diabetes, and my grandmother had diabetes,
and so I kind of had to really shift a
lot of my eating from being so carbon heavy. So
I eat a lot more proteins that are plant based.
And I'm vegan nothing against eating animal, but I just
took that slant because I thought it would really get
me disciplined. I love fruits. I love things that are colorful,
(12:08):
and I'm so.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Lucky to just be able to eat like in the.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Bread basket of them. Well it's not really the bread basket,
the fruit basket of America. That's that's where I learned
how to cultivate arted chokes and and all the different
and the pomegranates. The Palm Wonderful Company is in California,
and they make my beautiful extract of pomegran iss s
which I use in my in my iced tea. Oh yeah,
(12:33):
do you ever ever use that?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah, well I've I've spoken to them in fact, and
I mean there are yeah family.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
And then not only that, the the ibatic herbs, like
we were just talking about, the Turmerics, the gingers, the circumans,
the cumans uh you know, Ashwa Ganda, all of these
are actually herbs that we can cook with.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
After cere money was the Driving Force brand TOOLCI or
the Holy Basil in our in our supplement. Oh yes,
really good data around.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
It, yeah, really really great and stress control. But it
just tastes good.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
They don't have to eat. You don't have to like
make it taste healthy.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
It can taste it already tastes healthy naturally. You No.
I eat a pomegranate today in pomegranate season because I
just love I love the effect. It's sweet and sour
and juicy and delicious. And I've learned how to take
the seeds out very easily. Most people don't eat pomegress
because they can't get.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
The seeds out, that's true.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
But if you bang it with a wooden spoon on
the on the skin, they all come flying out.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Well, you have all these tricks in the trade all
the time, all the hacks.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
You know, THERE'SRM hacks, but I think these are more
useful exactly nutritional food hacks.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
So what is the role of inflammation and oxidative stress
really play in the realm of skin aging?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, you know, this whole concept of inflammating has taken
storm now, which I think we paid attention to.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Before.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
We used to say oxidative stress would lead to DNA damage,
but now we realize oxidative stress leads to inflammation, and
inflammation leads to oxidative stress, and it's a big cycle
that all leads to faster aging and senescence. And so
you know, anytime you're thinking about controlling aging, you have
to look at can we get high quality antioxidants that
(14:12):
can hold up which was the whole point of vitamin
C on its own. Awesome, but we've got better stuff
out there now, and I think that's the point. And
then bringing inflammation down is so important from the inside
out too, and that's why the use of curcuman is
so important because that is such a great anti inflammatory,
turmeric and curcuman. So yeah, bringing inflammation down and bringing down.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
How do you add that to your food? How do
you add turmeric and curcumin to your food?
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Well, you could do it as a supplement that's through
ELM bio, right, So that's one. But yeah, I mean
you can just add it directly in, you can sprinkle
it into your food. I think it's really good to
also put it into your smoothies.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
It's so funny. I have some sometimes I have patients
that are like, oh, I've been eating smoothies every day.
I don't know why, I'm like, don't feel as healthy.
I'm like, tell me what you do, and they put
all this awesome stuff and then like then I put
a scoop of ice cream, and I'm like that might
be the and.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
All kinds of sweet, sweet fruits that are just not useful. Right,
My green juice is so healthy that I drink every
single day green. And tell me, tell me if anything
in here could be harmful in any way. I grow
all my own vegetables, by the.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Way, Okay, so first of all, you're way ahead of everything.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, no, really. And my my smoothies, I don't call
them smoothies. I call them green juices because they're not
smoothies at all. I'm really doing them in a juicer.
I juice a whole cucumber with the skin. I juice
several stalks of celery with the leaves. I do a big,
big handfuls of spinach fresh spinach leaves with the stems.
(15:47):
We have parsley, and we have a big piece of
ginger with the skin on. I don't peel things for
the because they're just going through a juicer and you're
just taking whatever. The juicer takes what it can out
of the out of the vegetables and half of an
orange with a peel on.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
That's you know, you leaving the pelon is so brilliant.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It is because that Chinese eat the peels, you know,
the peels medicine, Yes, chalk full of the antioxinans that
we need. And then I don't put fruit in it,
No fruit, because I don't care about the sweetness. I
care about the wellness of it. So and is there
anything else I put in there? You know, it depends
on whether what other vegetables. I don't put anything burpy
(16:28):
in it, like like kale or cabbage. I don't want
to burp. I don't put carrots in it because there's
too sugary. So is that a good mix?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Oh my gosh, I think I want your recipes.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, it's really really good.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
I think it's brilliant for you to keep the fruits
out in the juicer because then you lose a lot
of the fiber. But the nice thing about these the
greens that you're putting in there is I mean, you're
you're putting everything in so yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Think and if there's if I do have a pomegranate,
it'll put the pomegranate seeds in it too, because I
love the chase of pomegranate.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
That makes two of us.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, and that's what I I use every single day.
And I was adding collagen powder to it, but I've
found that that didn't really make too much difference. Yeah,
and I don't trust all those collagen powders anyway.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And you can actually get it from protein powders if
you really wanted to anyway.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
So that's that's my juice.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
That's what I really I live on in the morning.
It's an energy boost too, farm to a table exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Body. Yes, so there you go, Yeah, you're live in it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
So how do the skin's internal and external pathways work together?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Well, you know, the skin isn't in isolation. It is
the biggest organ, but it is so invested with blood
flow that honestly goes everywhere in the body that when
you think of the skin, I think we initially used
to think, oh, skin is just exterior, but now we
see like the gut health, the nutrition you're putting in
your body. In fact, we did studies looking at if
(17:53):
you take a certain marked water, it was totally safe,
but you can track it to the skin, twenty percent
of it ends up in this So a huge load
of what you eat ends up all over the body,
but in the skin too. So the networks are clearly
from the inside and from the outside. Now, the outside
is pretty awesome because it protects you from all the
bad things that you don't want getting in. But boy,
(18:15):
if you do clever things, you can deliver really good
things into the skin. It's so cool that, like, if
you eat a lot of these caratenoids which are found
in yellow, orange, purple vegetables and whatnot, they actually honed
to the skin. I was a bioengineer before I went
into med school, and we look at you.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
There so many things for a young man. You have
such a vast knowledge of so many different fields.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Well, I think, I just you know what it is
you meander in life, and then you tell the story
as if you meant to and so I think, like
I can say like, oh, I meant to do this,
but truly I was, like I was trying to find
my way. But you know, some of these chemicals will
go as you eat them, they'll sit in the skin
and they'll stay there for a long amount of time,
which is so cool because It's not just like you
(18:59):
eat and that's done. If you make it a habit,
you literally will basically like put it into your skin
and higher loads. In fact, in Britain they did a
study looking at people that ate more cratnoids versus not
and they got a little food tan and then people
graded them as looking more attractive. So now I tell
people eat your tan, don't expose your tan. So that's
another way.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, bro, that's interesting. Yeah, and smart, I mean that
you want you want that you want that healthy look.
You don't want to look like a pale to do you?
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And where's the next frontier of integrative dermatology.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
It's getting the rest of medicine to see that integrated
dermatology is the best way to treat our patients. And
I think without people like doctor Bonsoali, doctor Wiles and
you know, the work that we're all doing together collectively
changing minds, I think people are now seeing that integrative
medicine should be medicine. And people ask me this question,
maybe you guys get it too, How can why do
(19:57):
you call it integratve medicine? Just call it medicine. And
then what I say is, yeah, I'm just waiting for
everybody else to adopt the integrated medicine. Then we'll call
it all medicine. And then I think looking at objective measures.
I think bringing more and more science to this. And
doctor Wills has done some amazing work. We were just
just talking about some other stuff that we could collaborate on,
but bringing more objectivity to this area where it's very
(20:19):
easy to just be very frufrough and say like, oh
this works and thumb nail it. But let's measure the
size of that thumb, you know, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So, serrenda, this is doctor Sarana Wiles who lives.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
In Rochester, Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Rochester, how far is that from here?
Speaker 5 (20:35):
It's about one thousand miles away. But I'm from Westchester.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Oh you are, so what took you to your new place?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
So I moved to the middle of Cornfields to go
to the Mayo Clinic. I did my training there and
stayed on as a dermatologist.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Okay, well that's good to know. Now I have a
contract at the Mayo Clinic.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
Come visit anytime that would be.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
I have never been there.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
It's a great place. We have three million people that
come to Rochester every year.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
It's incredible And what do you do there?
Speaker 5 (21:01):
I'm a dermatologist scientist, so I two days a week
I see patients in clinic and then the other three
days I manage a research lab.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
And working on focusing on what So.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
We study everything from regeneritive medicine, so understanding how these
new toolkits are coming in for regenerating or repairing the skin.
And we also work a lot on skin longevity, which
are these hallmarks of aging or the root cause of
why the skin ages. And we put it together with
a really cool tissue engineering aspect which is three D
bioprinting of the skin, so validating how these treatments are
(21:34):
working through a human relevant system.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And how does that? How do you do that? I
like three D printing.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
The three D printing system is just like a printer,
so just like you would have printer inks like black,
cyan magenta and the scian always runs out first, right,
so we have inks bioing always, but you have to
buy the pack again with all three. So the idea
is that you can get bioinks of curetinocytes, melanocytes and
fibroblasts and use them just like a printer would. But
(22:01):
print them in different layers, so you can actually model
aging skin. So we can model a thirty year old skin,
a fifty year old skin, or an eighty year old skin,
and we can model diseases like atopic dermatitis or exema.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Very interesting, And what is cellular senescence which is something
that we are fighting against and how can we defend
against it?
Speaker 5 (22:22):
Yeah, so cellular sinesens. It's this really exciting time because
we're understanding root cause of age, so why do we
age at the cell and molecular level. Sinessens is actually
an evolutionary conserved mechanism. So early sinessens is actually a
good thing. It's a it's a pause, a break on
mutations that can happen from different types of cancers or insults,
(22:42):
so it's a stopping mechanism. But chronic senessence, like in
the context of inflammaging and other insults, can be bad.
So think about them as like weeds in the garden.
They are bad. They are kind of affect their local environment.
They are bad apples that affect kind of.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Why does it start?
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Initially it's a mutation and instead of taking a cell
and dying, which is the apoptosis, pathway that can take
a lot of energy and sometimes your body just doesn't
have that energy, so it kind of puts it under
house arrest. So these sinessen cells are just staying there,
but they're creating havoc in their.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Intre just accumulating and showing up in various ways with
like creepy skin.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Exactly, red spots or exactly they affect what about bruising.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
Bruising, all of the above. So they affect normal cells
from functioning, so you start to see pigmented changes, you
start to see laxity or looseness of your skin, all
because they're not functioning well.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And how do we combat that.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
So there's a lot of new defenders like antioxidants, their
sinesens targeters, and that's what you know. Ingredients like acetyl
zinzerone are very exciting because they're looking at direct sinesens
pathways and seeing how we can turn down the noise
that's coming from these sinessen cells. So it actually helps
the environment be functional and better.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So what are some of the most exciting events is
that we find now in regenderative medicine for the skin.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
For the skin right now, I think the three D
bioprinting is very exciting. Ninety percent of drugs are failing
in clinical trials, and even the ingredients that we're utilizing
in skincare, we don't have really good evidence to show
that these are human relevant and this is how it's
actually going to be working.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So it give me one example, one additive to like
skincare line that would be useless.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
So I think we can talk about a couple of
different lines, but I think, you know, there's overreliance on
a lot of things, like you know, vitamin C. We
talked about it being low grade inflammation, but there's overreliance
on antioxidants that maybe are antiquated, but whether they're newer
ingredients that are more effective and target these pathways directly.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And that's what we're we're looking for for our skincare
line and adding to our products. Absolutely the things that
you guys are working on, and it's just so interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
One thing to mention and not to get too far
into our future endeavors, but you know, I think how
we look at the studies that we do, we don't
want to do what everybody else is doing. We want
to actually have objective measures and almost reset the bar
for what brands should look for when they're actually bringing
products and ingredients to market. I think, if it's not us, again,
who's going to do it? Right? So having three hundred
and fifty plus dermatologists who do this for a living,
(25:17):
who have been responsible for pharmaceutical breakthroughs and things like that,
I think this is an incredible opportunity, not just for us,
but for science as a whole.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
So I wanted to ask a question of each of
you and all of you, what is the biggest breakthrough
in the last five years in skincare.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
So I think right now to that point of understanding
science better, we actually know that there's actually two different
clocks of how we age. So there's a biological aging,
which are internal signals. See these are molecular signals that's
very specific to individuals. And then there's the chronological age,
which is the birthday candles, So you may be sixty
five years old but actually have a biological age of
(26:06):
forty five or a biological age of seventy five.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
How do you know?
Speaker 5 (26:10):
So this is where we can design epigenetic clocks. Doctor
Civiamoney and I were talking about utilizing results like DNA
and Arnie sequencing to see if we can create biological
clocks that are.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Specifically or want I want to be a Can I
be a guinea pig?
Speaker 5 (26:24):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I love to be a guinea thing. I love this
kind of thing. I had my GNA red or your
genome red quite a few years ago, and I found
it fascinating. And my friends who were with me would
not let me know anything about their tests results. They
didn't like what they heard.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
I think it's because they didn't have the green smooth
your recipe, green.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Juice, green juice recipe. Right, what about you, doctor Sibamani.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Well, you know, I think the biggest breakthrough, really it
isn't going to be anyone ingredient.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
It's how we measure things. And we've gotten much better.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
It used to be everybody did clinical grading and you'd say, oh,
you look about twenty percent better, you look about thirty
percent better, which was good you had expert graders. But
now we're just way better at it. Now you can
measure like what is the true elasticity, Like you have
devices that will pull the skin and snap it back
and measure all of that, or how much water are
you truly losing through the skin? But now we've even
(27:18):
evolved to look at can we collect skin without hurting
someone non invasively, so you just have to come in,
you can take it off tapes, or you can just
scrape it off their face, no bleeding, no issues, and
then you can go send that off for analysis. So
we're getting much better at finding earlier changes and then
tracking that over time. And a lot of people will
will ask me like, don't you want a big change.
(27:40):
I'm like, yeah, you do want a big change, but
you know, a lot of lifestyle shifts that we do,
like the green juice or other things that we're doing,
are going to be small, incremental changes that you make
over years and then you can look back and say, wow,
that was a huge difference, but it didn't impact me
to the point where I had a lot of side effects.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
And so I think that's where we're at now, and
I think that's the big.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Looking for help with outside effects or damaging side effects
in other places. The green juice is great for hair, Oh,
I mean helping my hair. So I mean I believe
that I've always had good hair, but it's better than
my friends. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Can I add another thing? Another big breakthrough is that
we used to think sunscreen was enough. And I'm a
big proponent of sunscreen. I know there's a lot of
controversy that's out there about oh, does it lead to
cancers or not? And I just want to put that arrest.
It does not lead to cancers. That helps to reduce
skin cancers, absolutely, but it's not enough because sunscreens have
figuratively and to be kind of punny here, have a
(28:36):
lot of holes in them because you know, once the
sunlight gets through, now what, because you can't protect every
part of your body. People have shown in studies that
when people put on sunscreen their's skip areas. If you
do spray sunscreen, I call it partially community service because
you're helping the people next to you.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So that's good.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
So you know, so polluting the air maybe polluting the air.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
So I think you have to have an antiox and
that you're putting directly on the skin, that you're augmenting
your second layer of defense and maybe third layer of defense.
So I think that's a huge innovation, like just thinking
about how we approach and.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Also the polypodium.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
I mean it's been oh yeah and being you should
mention that too though, Yeah, no, So you mentioned yours polypodium.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
There's been I don't know, seventy plus published studies. It's
a photoprotective anti oral antioxidant, you know, dermatois dermatologists. We
recommend it to our pre cancer patients, skin cancer patients,
malasma patients, and those who want to age well. You
know the way. And this is more macro discussing it.
How we've educated our own patients. If you're going to
go to the beach and where your sun's going to
of course it takes an hour to get a sunburn,
(29:36):
it might take you an hour and a half to
two hours to get that same sunburn because it gives
you an extra layer of protection. I think a lot
of this to doctor Civilmoney's point is that as much
as we think we're doing a great job, it might
not be adequate, particularly over time. Right, you might have
bad days. One bad day in the sun, you can
you increase your chance of skin cancer dramatically. But to
answer your question, I think them breakthrough for me is
actually more macro. It's how people are thinking about aging,
(30:00):
I think, or even medicine. We used to only go
to the doctor when we're sick. I think now patients
are realizing I should go when I'm healthy and think
about the future. The decisions you make today will dictate
how you are ten years from now, twenty years from now,
And we didn't really have that. You know, you only
go Okay, I feel achy, maybe I'll go see somebody.
But now this whole idea of wellness visits of thinking
about you know, I don't think the lab test world
(30:20):
is quite I mean think it's a little bit more
marketing right now, but eventually we will have the ability
to detect and lab tests certain things that are wrong
with us. Imaging studies at scale, which are safe and
done correctly, can help hopefully detect things before they become
an issue. So I think healthcare, with this beautiful mix
of healthcare and technology, I think it's going in a
very positive direction. There is a lot of obviously, I
(30:41):
think with social media, a lot of people maybe going
off the beaten path and a lot of misinformation out there.
But I think it's also important why a lot of
doctors are being more front facing, having doctors giving them
a platform like you've given you know, all of us
with science. I think it's necessary because we have to
do the things that you know, our kids generation and
the kid skins generation will benefit from. That's how we
(31:02):
like to think about all of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So what is again a group question. If there's one
thing you wish every person did daily for their skin,
what would it be?
Speaker 5 (31:13):
I think all dermatologists would agree sunscreen. It's the highest
return on investment or ROI that you can do for
your skin health. And I want to just define a
concept that doctor Boniselli brought up earlier, which is the
idea of a skin span. So we're all living longer, right,
and that's called life span. Of how long we live
and then how well we live is called the health span. Now,
(31:35):
the skin, which is the greatest mirror to our systemic health,
has its own functional longevity or how healthy aging occurs
in the skin at the functional level, that's called the
skin span. So I think to optimize skin span, sunscreen
still is the foundation.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Do you have a recommended sunscreen?
Speaker 5 (31:52):
So I believer of a lot of different brands. I
think more than the brand, it's optimal reapplication. So you
want to have at least SPO thirty or greater and
reapply a certain specific amount that is enough coverage a
broad spectrum sunscreen often every two hours.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Every two hours. So I see mothers on the beach
with their little kids applying it at least every two hours,
which is exactly what they should.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Can I say? I love skin span?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Yeah, thank you great lifespan, lifespan, health spans and skin span.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
We've trademarked it maybe.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Okay, skin span excellent, so put TM after it if
we ever use it in ours.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Of course, I do love the objective measure. I think
that's something that's necessary and people claim so many things,
but how do we prove it? And that's been a
very important conversation point in the Durham world, is you know,
the marketing aside, if it really works, we want to
shout on rooftops, but prove it please?
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, And I think that goes back to like what
I how I would you know answer? What you were
talking about is, gosh, there's so many preventive things we
could do in Western medicine. I love Western medas, but
our approach in Western medicine has largely been early reactive.
We wait till something goes wrong and then we like
intervene instead of Now we've got enough knowledge that we
can be very preventive about things and live the life
(33:13):
that we want live the preventative kind of way that
we need to be, so eating right, putting on extra
kind of protective measures. That's what I'm really hoping everybody,
like in Vibes, is that if we make small, incremental
things that just become our lifestyle, then you can live
to the better health span and better skin span.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
There you go catching on, So what is your one
thing someone should do absolutely without fail.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
Well, I think they need to focus on the kind
of foods that they're eating and just make sure that
because the foods we take for granted and sometimes some
of it's cultural, but really like lean into whether this
is going to also be healthy for me, and learning
how to cook and work with food is really important.
And I think that when you start living that kind
(34:02):
of a lifestyle, you start to look at other aspects
of your life, I've found, and you'll be more mindful
of your skin from the outside. But I think everybody
should really take a hard look at how they're eating
and not just take it for granted, but really have
to like assess, hey, what's the best way for me
to eat, and what's the best way for me to
be preventative and doctor B.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I mean these guys took my number one, number two
SPF and then obviously eating well. I'm just I could
be remiss not to mention. As a physician, sleep also important.
I think letting your body rest and regenerate and rejuvenate
important things. I think you and I sleep.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
The same thing is lying in bit away.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
That's that's a different that's a different thing. And I
think unfortunately, as the social media generation we're in right now,
a lot of people their mind is always spinning.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I found this older I've gotten and a lot with
my patients as well as you know, again, your sleep
really does it's necessary. And you know, the one thing
I've learned as a physician is you know, the body
does tell you, it gives you hints, all right. You
have to protect it, you have to allow it to rest,
you have to give it all the nurturing things that needs.
But it's you know, it's really meant to serve you.
And I've had patients who are losing hair and really
(35:09):
it's end up showing some sort of systemic illness. Even cancers.
I've seen people start losing weight where they shouldn't be
losing weight. So your body is going to be telling
you all these things, but you have to care for it.
We only have one body, one life, and you have
to put you know, the good products inside of good
ingredients inside of it, on top of it, and also
let it rest and rejuvenate every single night.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Well that's all very very sound advice. And now we
have some rapid fire skin misconceptions.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Okay, love it.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Let's discuss some common skincare beliefs. I want you to
tell me quickly, true false or it depends on why
thank you start?
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Thank you for it depends wiles.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
All right, let's do this.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Expensive products always work better.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
It depends. So I will say that price does not
equal the product quality. So you want to be looking
at active ingredients and formulations because you could be putting
premium gasoline into a bicycle and it's not the right
formulation or the right fit. So the active ingredients is
the key.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I have a fourteen year old granddaughter who reads every
ingredient before she will eat or try that product.
Speaker 5 (36:20):
The yuca app has gotten quite popular.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Is it funny? They're really paying attention to ingredients. That's right,
I love it.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
That's great, though, I think it's really nice. People are.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, a lot of natural ingredients are always safer.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
No, it does depend.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
But like poison ivy is natural, and if you rub
that all over your body, boy, that's going to be
a nice trip to the er.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
So natural doesn't mean better.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Natural with science, with some tradition, with some knowledge, then yes,
but not just in a box.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Doctor B. Pores can open and close.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So you're poor.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I mean, I'm assuming you're referring to poor size and
things like that. So no, you actually have one set
of pores, but the infrastruct around pores can change actually
indirectly with you know, when you gain weight, you actually
a lot of times have more oil. And think about
these again, these pores are now full of oil and
need to extend. And so you know, as we get older,
collagen breaks down that infrastruture, that wall becomes a little
bit weaker, so you want to when you start filling
(37:15):
those pores with things, the walls might start bending a
little bit more. So that's why we use certain ingredients
that stimulate collagen. We use photo protection so we don't
break down that collagen. Those things are very very important.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Oily skin doesn't need a moisturizer.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
So oily skin does not equal hydrated skin, so oil
is not equal water. So we still recommend a lightweight,
non chominogenic moisturizer to keep that hydrated skin.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
And how can you get rid of oily skin.
Speaker 5 (37:44):
There's a lot of different exfoliance or cleansers that we're using,
so just making sure that you're cleansing your skin in
the morning and at nighttime if you are oil prone
using noncominogenic products.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Sleep has little impact on skin heilth. I think we
just touched on.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
That, but oh yeah, that's definitely false.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Sleep is a big one. In fact, they've shown that
if people reduce their sleep to just even one hour
or two hours and you really lose a lot of sleep,
your transatpadermal water loss, which is how quickly you're losing
water through the skin, totally skyrockets, and so you can
definitely have a much more age look if you're not sleeping.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Well, genetics matter more than skincare and how we age.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I would say that's true.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
You know, it's just one of those things where you
know over time, what part of the country, part of
the world we're from. All those things play a role,
right we know this with just basic disease. How you
present with a certain disease if you're from one part
of the world versus another is completely different. And so
in terms of aging, I think all these things do matter.
But just like every study has shown, it's not just genetic,
it's environmental. And they've shown twin studies where one twin
(38:49):
smokes the other one doesn't, and the major differences you see.
So I think it's part of the story and a
big part of the story, but it's not the only
part of the story.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Sunscreen is only for sunny days.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
So that's definitely not true. So I definitely recommend sunscreen
at all times. Like I said, it's the highest return
on investment for your skincare, even on cloudy days.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Retinal thins the skin over time.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
No, actually it's the opposite, because retinol will exfoliate, so
if you have a little bit of a thickness to
the skin that's unhealthy, it will thin the skin, but
the retinol will actually help to produce collagen. The problem
with it is very irritating and a lot of people
don't tolerate it well long term exactly, and we have
(39:35):
better ingredients now that work similar to retinal's but just
they just are tolerated way better. Name one Bakuccio for example.
We did the original study on Bakucho. We published, Yeah,
we published in the British journal with the clinical study
and bakuchill has the same sort of pathways. And now
there are more interesting ingredients which maybe down the line
will be things that we incorporate into even ELM as
(39:57):
we go along. They're better ingredients out there than especially
especially ELM.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Especially ELM.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Absolutely, I'm all for this side. I mean, I really
pay attention to ingredients.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Also, I think, you know, I say, like retinal and
vitamin C where maybe like the previous generation, so it's
not wrong to use them. But I also don't drive
my car from the nineteen fifties if I want to
get down the highway faster.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
You know, they're better things to use nowadays.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
So you don't eat skincare in your twenty.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Cheese, so that is false.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think actually a good skincare regiment probably starts when
you're eighteen, nineteen years old. I mean a lot of
our young patients are on retinoids for their acne. But
also I think there's interesting studies around skin barrier and
people with roseasia and different kind of conditions where not
really it's a compromise skin barrier that is the result
of it. So I think caring for your skin early
really sets the tone for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
And the higher the SPF, the better the projection.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
So the SPF is actually only determined the UVB protection.
So you want to look for a broad spectrum sunscreen
that has UVA and UVB and reapplication.
Speaker 6 (41:07):
Is really important. So every every hour, every hour or two, yeah,
especially if you're going in and out of the water exactly.
I thank you so much for your insight and for
your participation in ELM Biosciences, and you're continued, I hope
help with the product. It's on the product line that
we're developing and doctor b I look forward to years
of success with this fantastic new venture.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Absolutely, it's a very exciting time for all of us,
and there is so much misinformation out there, but the
truth is with the right science, simple habits and trusted products,
we can all live well and age well. That's why
I'm so excited about the work that we're doing at ELM.
Thank you, Davil Raja and Saranya for sharing your expertise
(41:51):
with our listeners. This is the kind of program our
listeners tune in for because they get some real, meaty
truths and information. Ellen Bioscience's Dual Pathway skin system products
are now available for pre order at ELM Biosciences, on Instagram,
and on elmbiosciences dot com. Thank you, listeners. We'll see
(42:14):
you next week and hear you next week.
Host
Martha Stewart
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