October 4, 2024 • 49 mins
On this episode of The Middle we'll be asking you about the single most important issue that will factor into your vote this November. We're joined by former Tennessee Governors Bill Haslem and Phil Bredesen. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus callers from around the country. #issues #singleissuevoter #election #immigration #economy #abortion #Ukraine #Trump #Harris
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson, along with our
house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver the listeners, as you know,
are the stars of this show, and not just when
they get pulled over by the police while they're on
the phone.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Oh my god. Yeah, I'm never gonna forget that call.
I'm pretty sure she's doing a hard time right now.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I changed her life. I hope not. But this hour,
the listeners are definitely the stars because rather than saying
this is the issue we're going to talk about this
hour with just one month to go before the election,
We're gonna say what is the most important issue to
you with one month to go until the election? And
the thing about a topic like that is, well, who
do you bring on the panel who can talk about anything?
(00:44):
Tall Oprah? Pretty we got Oprah. She's busy, But we
do have two former governors, one Democrat and one Republican
who've had to deal with just about every issue under
the sun, and we're going to get to them in
just a moment and take your calls at eight four
four Middle. That's eight four to four four six four
three three five three. But first on our last show,
just after the debate between vice presidential candidates jd Vance
(01:07):
and Tim Walls. We asked you for your thoughts. Here
are some of the reactions to the debate that didn't
make it onto the show.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
My name is Julie Brigaman. I live in Columbia, Illinois.
I really didn't know how the Republicans must be blaming
seems like almost everything on illegal immigrants. I didn't know
that they were the reason behind a housing shortage the economy.
It seemed like he blamed everything on the migration problem.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yes, my name is Jeremy.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
I'm in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Speaker 6 (01:37):
Before this debate, I didn't really know too much about
either one of the vice presidential nominees.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
But I think it really gave us.
Speaker 7 (01:46):
An opportunity to see who Waltz really.
Speaker 8 (01:49):
Is and give us an opportunity to.
Speaker 7 (01:51):
See what he really stands for.
Speaker 6 (01:54):
And I think he did a great job.
Speaker 9 (01:56):
Hi. This is Rachel Brand from Denver Corado debate. I
came off feeling more positive about Jade Vance. He comes
across a very intelligent He's got a lot of very
idealistic notions that may not have any tethered to reality,
but they sure do sound good.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Thanks to everyone who called in, and you can hear
that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts,
on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts.
So now to our topic this hour. What is the
most important issue for you with one month left till
the election? Tolliver, can you give us the number? Please?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, it's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four
four four sixty four three three five three, or you
can write to us that listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Let's meet our panel. Phil Bretson was the Democratic governor
of Tennessee from two thousand and three to twenty eleven,
and Republican Bill Haslam held the office right after him
from twenty eleven to twenty nineteen. Together, they host the
You Might Be Right podcast in partnership with the Baker
School of Public Policy and Public Affairs at the University
of Tennessee, Knoxville. Governors, welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 7 (02:58):
Thank you great to be here. We had to tell
Oprah that we've preempted her.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I know we're going to have to We're going to
have to let her know that before we get to
the funds. I want to ask each of you just
about the very serious storm that has just ravaged so
much of the southeast, including Tennessee, Hurricane Helene. A lot
of problems going on, their devastation in a number of states,
including Tennessee. What does the country need to know about
(03:23):
what's happening in Tennessee? Governor Bretison, Oh.
Speaker 7 (03:27):
I think I thought that the that that from what
I can see, that FEMA and the federal government were
doing a good job of responding. One of the one
of the things we ought to be proud of in
this country is is a good, good emergency response operation,
and it's it was devastating to see some of the
plutting in upper East Tennessee, but also over in North
(03:50):
Carolina and down and down in Georgia, and really appeal
for those people. But I do think the federal government
did did what it needed to do and has continuing
to do what it needs to do to try to
alleviate some of the suffering.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Governor Brettison, There are so many moments when hurricanes come
right before an election, and you know, you think of
Hurricane Sandy back in twenty twelve, Hurricane Katrina in two
thousand and five, before the two thousand and six midterms
where they can really have an effect. Do you think
that Hurricane Helen, the preparation, the response will have an
effect this year?
Speaker 7 (04:23):
You know, I don't think, certainly, not at the level
that Sandy did, which got much more weaponized in the
election there. But the fact that the response has been
from the federal government seems to have been, you know,
to me, a very responsible one and an effective one.
I don't think I should have that kind of an
(04:45):
effect this year. Could be wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Governor has them. What do you think of right now
of the response to Heleen in Tennessee and in other states?
Speaker 10 (04:54):
Yeah, I think the initial response has been good. I
think what I'd want people to know is this storm
in major damage and the fact that this is in
the mountains makes it so much harder. There's fewer routes
of ingress and egress to get places. People are trapped.
The water that flows off of those mountains has to
go somewhere. It creates tremendous you know, tremendous strained downstream,
(05:19):
down river, and this is going to be a long
time to clean up. And I think what Governor Bretison
I would both tell you is you have the initial
response when everybody shows up, and then you have the
how do we rebuild this? And I talked to somebody
today who was a farmer who lost all of his
equipment and regular insurance. Regular insurance doesn't cover floods. This
(05:43):
is what fourteen hundred year flood like a flood that
you'd expect once every fourteen hundred years. So it is
going to be a long time rebuilding from this.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Before we get to the calls and they're starting to
come in and fill up the lines. The two of
you host this podcast called you Might Be Right. You
come from opposite party. Uh, it's not always easy for
people to talk to people they disagree with politically. Governor Bretison,
how do you guys do it?
Speaker 7 (06:08):
I think it's I think it's well, first of all,
to be realistic, it helps that we're both from the
sort of relatively reasonable middle wings of our so we're
not we're not shouting each other across you know, this huge,
huge gap, all this obviously differences in worldview and and
so on, the fact that we were that we were
friends before this, I think helps. It helps a lot
(06:30):
as well. It's one of the things I you know,
it kind of feels getting lost in politics. I think
there was a time when Democrats and Republicans could, you know, fight,
fight about something during the day and have a drink
together at night. And I think we've tried hard to
establish that kind of a relationship that you know, there's
there's two elements to it. There's a lot of mutual respect,
(06:50):
and there's some things we disagree on.
Speaker 10 (06:53):
Although I should add that we don't go drinking every
night together.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That's just to be clear, just on weekends.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, let's get to the phones where again asking people
what is the number one issue to you as we
head into this election just one month away. Our number
is eight four four four six four three three five three.
Joseph is in Saint Louis. Joseph, what's the number one
issue for you?
Speaker 11 (07:17):
Evening? I'm a single issue voter, and it's immigration. I'd
like to see deportations of everyone illegally here and an
immigration moratorium for the foreseeable future. In the last few years,
everyone I know, except for the very wealthy, and I
don't know too many of those, but the upper middle class,
the working class, Black, white, Hispanic who are legal residents
(07:42):
have really been struggling I mean, I've been watching some
of my friends young families cracking apart under financial pressure,
and it's just incomprehensible and offensive to see our government
spending our tax dollars, housing, feeding, clothing, healthcare, all of
these things. For know, these these people coming in and
they want a better life. I get that, What about
(08:04):
our better life? I mean, a bank robber wants a
better life too, and we don't allow that. And we
separate bank robbers from their families and send them to jail,
and we don't let their kids take their ill gotten games.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So, Joseph, Joseph, let me just ask you one follow
up here, because one of the things that we've heard
over the last couple of months is that this very
conservative immigration bill that was a bipartisan bill, was put
together by a very conservative Republican was basically shot down
by former President Trump, who it was reported that he
you know, wanted to be able to run on this issue,
(08:37):
didn't want it done. Are you upset with him about
killing that bill?
Speaker 11 (08:42):
No, that that bill was a hope. It was a
Chamber of Commerce, Republican thing that allowed five thousand immigrants
in a day. And then it was up to the
discretion of the president whether to even stop it. I mean,
that's that's insane. It was not a good bill for
someone who's an immigration restrictionist like me. And in the
larger the larger thing is it's you know, it's fine
that some people come in, but with this mass, unrelenting
(09:04):
millions and millions, it's past social trust. It fractures the
national identity and you know, from the breakup of the
Ottoman Empire to Yugoslavia, Rwandas Rwanda, even Northern Ireland, these
things can have you know, if we lose a war,
or if the dollar is the reserve currency, it could
get really ugly as all.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Okay, justin thank you very much for that. I'll go
to you, Governor Bretison on that this is actually in
the polls, immigration is seen as one of the top issues,
one of the top one or two issues going into
this election.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
I think where I might disagree a little bit with
your caller is, you know, we shouldn't confuse immigration, you know,
which is not well controlled at the moment, which I
would certainly certainly say is the case with just immigration
as a general good. I mean, I think on the
whole having immigrants, having people who come here to college
(09:58):
be able to stay on and function in the country.
They're clearly are places where the labor force needs needs.
The immigrants for things of farming is an obvious one.
Some of the building trades, you know another. And it's
me the issue is not immigration or no immigration, it's uh,
we have I think we have the duty to control
(10:18):
our border and make political decisions about who we want
to admit and who we don't. And I think that's
the direction we ought to be going in. And I
actually think the you know, the bill that was that
was up there was was a reasonable first step in
that direction.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
But of course it did not go anywhere. To Tolliver,
we were going to be talking about the big issues
the economy, immigration and other things. But sometimes what pushes
a candidate over the top is something entirely different, something
that may not affect the daily lives of voters.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, Like in the year two thousand, fresh off the
Monica Lewinsky scandal, George W. Bush ran against Bill Clinton's
Vice President Al Gore. Here he is on restoring honor
and integrity to the White House.
Speaker 12 (11:00):
If I'm the one that you dominate to our start
on the nomination process tomorrow and eventually become your president.
When I put my hand on the Bible on that
January day of two thousand and one, I will swear
to not only upoll the laws of the land. I
will swear to a poll the honor and the integrity
of the office to which I have been elected. So
(11:20):
help me, God, Thank you all for coming.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
God bless remember it like it was yesterday.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
That was a very close election. By the way, Tolliver,
what five hundred and thirty seven votes in the state
of Florida. So I guess honesty and integrity back into
the White House wasn't that good of an issue because
heated by a landslide. We'll be right back with more
of the middle. This is the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
If you're just tuning in the Middle as a national
call in show, we are focused on elevating voices from
(11:48):
the middle geographically, politically, philosophically, or maybe you just want
to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you
what is the most important issue for you with one
month left till the election. Tolliver, what is the number
for people to call it?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It's eight four four for a Middle. That's eight four
four four six four three three five three. You can
also write to us that listen to the Middle dot
com or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I'm joined by former Tennessee Governors Phil Brettison, a Democrat,
and Bill Haslam, a Republican. And let's go back to
the phones because they're full. Laura is in Nashville, Tennessee,
one of your constituents, perhaps former constituents. Laura, Welcome to
the Middle. Go ahead with your top issue.
Speaker 9 (12:25):
Hi.
Speaker 13 (12:26):
I am calling because I feel like, for me personally,
the biggest issue is LGBTQ right, specifically trans rights for miners.
I'm the proud mom of a trans kid, and I
(12:47):
feel like this issue, especially over the last couple of years,
has become a very divisive issue, and it feels like
these kids are being used as scapegoats. And I'm fortunately
we're in a state where there are laws on the
books that prevent my child from having the same rights
as a cist gender child. We have to travel out
(13:10):
of state to get the healthcare that he deserves, and
that you know, I'll do anything for my child like
most parents, but it makes me angry and he's at
the point now, you know, he's a couple of years
away from going to college, and he's talking about going
out of the country for college and living out of
(13:31):
the country because he does not feel safe. Thankfully, we're
in Nashville, so it's progressive and safe. He's at a
great school and has great friends and community. But you
know that's not the case. There are states we can't
even travel to and be safe. So anyway, that's my issue.
And I want to say hi to the governors. I
love both of you. So I voted for both of you.
(13:52):
So nice to hear your wine.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Wow, a bipartisan vote. And Laura, thank you very much
for that. Yeah, because governor has them. Let me go
to you on that, because for many people it could
be the issue of trans rights where they have a
family member who is thinking about their own rights. It
could be also the issue of abortion rights in many
places where people feel like it's really personal for them.
(14:15):
Whatever they're voting on, it really has to do with
their own lives and their rights.
Speaker 10 (14:22):
Right, And so let me let me back up, and
the premise of our podcast you might be right, is
these are hard issues and our country is evenly split.
I think that's a little bit of the theme of
your show, Jeremy is we think that everybody thinks like
we do, but it's obviously not true. The country's fairly
evenly split, and the point of our podcast is to say,
(14:42):
these hard issues, whether they be lgbt Q issues, whether
they be immigration, gun rights, et cetera, let's stop and
listen to the other side and hear their perspective. Because,
as Laura said, who called, once it's personal, Once it's
your family that's facing an issue you around, whether it's
sexuality or immigration, whatever it is, then everything looks a
(15:07):
little different. So the point of our show is to say,
listen to the other side to see if there are
some things that you might learn from them, you know,
And it's hard to comment just you know, from thirty
thousand feet exactly about Laura's question, I would say this.
I think for a lot of folks it's a question
(15:27):
of having with minor children, are their parents part of
the decision making process or not, because that feels like
a real distinctive to me that when it's up to
a minor, we require their parents to sign off on
a whole lot of things for them, and so if
it involves something as critical as their gender identity. The
(15:47):
parents should be a part of that. If it's a
minor child would be the first thought that I am.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Governor Bretison, do you have do you have a different
thought on that or do you agree with Governor Haslm.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
I certainly, I certainly you know, as as a parent
would want to be involved in that decision with my
own child, I do agree with that. I also think
that you know that that you know, I mean a
part of I mean, a part of the ethic of
this country is the notion that you know, there's the
(16:19):
notion that we're you know, we're all God's children, and
and that everyone ought to be valued for, you know,
for who it is that they are. There's a quote
from Samuel Johnson that I love, you know, from a
long time ago. It's which says, it's no one dream
that pleases these all. And I think just recognizing that
there's a lot of different ways to to conduct your
(16:41):
life and and have respect for and that's important. The
one thing that I probably a little to the right
of my party on is I do have questions when
you start talking about, you know, things that can't be
reversed being done to children who are not who are
(17:01):
not of age, or we're not a team to make
their own decisions. I'm not sure that really is the
kind of informed consent for those kinds of things that
I would like to see. I'd like to learn more
about it, but that gives me some pause.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I also do want to highlight that Tennessee has one
of the very few transgender elected officials, Olivia Hill in
Metro Council in Nashville.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Let's go to Dia, who's in Upper Darby, Pennsylvania. Dia,
Welcome to the middle. What's your top issue?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I am concerned that income inequality is being cast onto
immigrants and anybody who can be othered who is also struggling,
instead of the people who are really squeezing the country,
which are the super wealthy and corporations. You have these
corporations that own all these companies under one umbrella and
(17:56):
can buy up real estate and can inflate prices and
get money from the government that they use for stock
buybacks and don't pay their workers enough. And because they
own media companies, they can create this narrative that know,
the problem is immigrants, or the problem is poor people,
or the problem cities and take the light off of themselves,
(18:17):
and people buy it because this country, because of capitalism,
wants to find an other to blame for why they
don't have what they believe they should have.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
So on the issue of income inequality, deal, what would
you like to see done.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
There should be more regulation about monopolizing companies. There should
be higher taxes on the super wealthy. We should have
taxes on unrealized gains. And I think that there should
be caps on how much people can be paid. You
have these CEOs that are making obscene amounts of money
and the people who work for them, who are actually
(18:57):
doing the work, that can't serve on their income. And
there needs to be more enforced income and equality. And
this idea of unbridled capitalism really requires human suffering to survive.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Dia, thank you for that. Governor Haslam as a Republican,
what do you think about about what Dia just said there?
Speaker 10 (19:19):
Well, let me let me say this. I think the
market based system capitalism has been responsible for pulling more
people out of poverty worldwide than anything else. And is
it perfect?
Speaker 14 (19:31):
No?
Speaker 10 (19:31):
Can we have a completely market based system? No, But
I don't think the idea of I think thea said
enforced income equality. I don't think that's that's never worked anywhere,
and it's naturally never brought people out of poverty. The
market based system, with all of its faults, I still
(19:52):
think is the best thing we have going in the world.
I think it's one of the reasons we have an
economy that's far above you know, what you see in
the rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
But do you see any threat to the market based
system from either of these candidates? Governor Haslm, Actually don't.
Speaker 10 (20:09):
I don't listen. I mean, obviously they're going to come
from different places, and if you look at kind of
the spectrum of government controlled versus market controlled, they're going
to come from different places on the spectrum. But the
answer your question is, I don't see either of them
threatening that. I personally would like to see both of
them addressing some of the structural issues around our deficit
(20:33):
in this country, which neither one of them is talking
about at all, which I think is really serious. But
that's a separate issue that I think what Diana is
calling about.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Let's go to Duke who's in Livingston, Montana. Duke, welcome
to the middle Go ahead with your top issue.
Speaker 15 (20:49):
Yeah, Hi, my top issue is keeping our democracy intact.
Speaker 16 (20:56):
We have a candidate here.
Speaker 15 (20:58):
Whoozes Putin and other dictators, said he wants to be
a dictator on day one Project twenty five, which is
basically going to do away with all the bureaucrats who
are experts in their agencies and replace them with political appointments.
(21:19):
The candidate has said, oh, once, you just vote one
more time and then we're going to fix it so
you don't have to vote again. That's Donald Trump saying
all this stuff. Democracy is the most important thing we
have in our country. What matters if the price of
bread goes up, or if there's more immigrants coming in
to our country, what matters if gasoline prices go up?
(21:40):
And nothing matters if we lose our democracy. I mean,
do we want to be in a dictatorship? Do we
want to live in Russia where people are afraid to
speak out for fear they're getting put in jail forever. No,
that's the most important thing that we keep our democracy intact.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
So think you're going to be out welcome. Thank you
for that. I think it there, And let me go
to Governor Bretisen for his response to that. A lot
of people feel the same way that democracy is the
most important issue and they see a threat. By the way,
I will note that in polls, Democrats see a threat
from Trump for the things that Duke was talking about.
Republicans often see a threat because they think that there's
(22:17):
going to be voter fraud and that's the threat to democracy.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
Yeah, it's I actually I agree with with that caller.
And in a lot of ways you didn't ask us,
But I mean, for me, the most important question in
this election, the kind of the gorilla in the rum,
is not immigration or economy or you know, or anything else.
It's whether we're willing to try to recover an American
(22:43):
government that works like the Founders intended for into work
in the constitution set up to work, or whether we're
going to continue this march towards some being like some
impomperished you know, third third world country with just out
of control of tribalism and people seeking power at any
at any cost. And it's not only about the presidency,
(23:04):
you know, it's also about who you like to the Congress,
who you like to the Senate. And I think those
are you know, those are fundamental issues. Most of the
other issues, if we have a working government. We can
work through those we have for two hundred plus plus years.
That's what really scares me about this is is whether
there's enough people willing to say it's important to restore
(23:27):
the kind of government that our founders attended.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Governor has them. What do you think about that? Do
you agree with Governor Bretison?
Speaker 10 (23:33):
Well, partly, listen, if you go talk and I talk
to people on both sides, you know of this, and
both parties are death. Both people in both parties are
definitely afraid that the other side means to ruin our country.
And it's really distinctive how much people feel that way.
(23:55):
If if their side wins, it's going to be the
end of our country as we know it. I'll say this,
I think what really is important, and I think this
is the part I really agree with what Phil was saying.
Is this understanding how our constitution is designed, how this
(24:16):
country is supposed to work, is really important. And I
think our founders had the wisdom to know that we're
imperfect people, and so they put a system in place
that had checks and balances to it in anything that
doesn't anything or any person or group that doesn't respect
those checks and balances and how it's supposed to work,
and how it's we're supposed to understand that there's compromise
(24:37):
has to be built into the process. I think is
uh is a long term danger to the to the country.
Speaker 7 (24:45):
Yeah, and I think, you know, I mean, the other
thing I think the founders understood was that there was
always going to be a range of world for you.
Those people have got different life experiences, they've got different
belief belief systems that you had to have a kind
of government could function in that environment. You know, they'll
accommodate that reality and allow us to govern and still
protect those with differing views. I mean, that's what I
(25:08):
fear we're losing in the attitudes of people, and what
I think the selection ultimately is going to play a
major role in switching us on one course or the other.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Dan is in Boston, Massachusetts. Dan, Welcome to the Middle.
What's your top issue?
Speaker 8 (25:25):
Hi, Jeremy, thanks so much.
Speaker 17 (25:26):
I love this show.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 8 (25:29):
Yeah, I think most Americans are actually in the middle,
so I appreciate you speaking to us. My top issue
for the election is climate change. Barack Obama and John
McKean ran on climate platforms that were very similar, and
(25:50):
yet it's a divided issue today. My question to the
governors is, how do we get back to consensus on
an issue that threatens this our national and global security, food.
Speaker 18 (26:08):
Supply order, immigration, I guess yeah, well, I'm thinking about
flooding and so forth on the coach.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
It's going to wipe out a huge amount of our
infrastructure eventually, and of course it's going to drive immigration.
What we see now is is just a trickle compared
to what will happen in twenty thirty years when Mexico
and Country South desiccate and can't support agriculture. So why
(26:44):
can't we get it together on climate change? There's so
much opportunity if we get it right.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Dan, Thanks, great question, Governor Haslam. Your thoughts on that
and how how we get to a point where we're
not fighting over something that you know ninety percent of
the scientists agree is happening.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 10 (27:01):
And folks in my party who either deny or want
to say climate change is in an issue or that
it's not caused by man, I think are wrong. Okay,
so let's start there. I think we also have to
realize that we can't go to solely sustainable sources of energy.
(27:23):
We can't say let's go totally there, because when we do,
you'll see energy become short. That the demand for energy now,
due to all the technology we use, is actually, for
the first time in a long time, back to increasing
at a fairly rapid race rate because of everything we
want out of our phones, in the AI that's driving
(27:45):
our computers, et cetera. So I think we have to
be realistic that we can't get there overnight, but we
need a plan to do it. And I think what
some folks need to hear is that as we work
toward a sustainable future, we do it with the entire
picture in mind. And I'll give you the example that
(28:05):
I use a lot. And when COVID happened, we had
people that said, shut the economy down, everybody stay home
till this goes away, And we saw nobody took into
account the impact on kids in schools and on jobs,
and on relationships and people's mental health, et cetera. Because
some people said let's just shut it all down. I
(28:27):
think what scares some people is the sense of if
we say yes, this is a real issue, that folks
are going to say, let's just shut the economy down
until we get it under control. I'm dramaticizing there, but
I think you get the point I'm making.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
We're getting some comments in online. Ken DeBusk in Sturgis,
Michigan says number one issue preservation of democracy in our constitution.
Number two health care, and Emily and de Luth Minnesota.
The most important issue for me in this election of
reproductive healthcare rights, as I believe reproduct healthcare is an
essential right. We're hearing from you and listened to the
middle dot Com and Tolliver. We've been talking about some
(29:06):
of these big issues, but often there's an October surprise,
something that we weren't really thinking about, but then it
makes a big effect on the election. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
In twenty sixteen, the October surprise was FBI Director James
Comy announcing he was reopening the Hillary Clinton email probe
just eleven days before the election. Here's Clinton responding, I.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Have now seen Director Comy's letter to Congress. We are
eleven days out from perhaps the most important national election
of our lifetimes. Voting is already underway in our country,
so the American people deserve to get the full and
complete facts immediately. The director himself has said he doesn't
(29:49):
know whether the emails referenced in his letter are significant
or not. I'm confident whatever they are will not change
the conclusion reached in July.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
And by the way, she has said Tolliver that that
was a decisive reason for her loss in twenty sixteen.
Actually agree. Yeah. We will be right back with more
of your calls coming up on the Middle. This is
the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour, we're asking you
what is the most important issue for you with one
month left until the election. You can call us at
eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four four
(30:23):
six four three three five three. You can also reach
out to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
I'm joined by former Tennessee Governors Bill Haslam, a Republican,
and Phil Bretson, a Democrat. And before we go back
to the phones, uh, Governor Brettison, let me ask you this.
There are people right now people ask me of us
all the time, what is up with these undecided voters?
How have they not figured it out yet? You now have?
(30:45):
You know you've been through a number of elections. Why
are people undecided after all this time, at this point
in the race.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Well, I think, you know, I think there's I think
there's there's always some and I think in particular in
this race, you have people who like some of the
things that Donald Trump says that he's going to do,
but are unsure about his suitability to be president and
are trying to balance those two things in their minds.
(31:15):
And probably probably the same with on the other side,
but I think not as not as strongly. But you
also have people who just, you know, when I get,
you know, these calls from people and so on, I
often say it. I'll say I'm undecided. I'm just, you know,
don't really appel I need to share who I'm voting for.
Every time somebody asked me the question, I think all
(31:37):
those are factors.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Ryan is joining us from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Ryan, what's your
top issue?
Speaker 6 (31:47):
I'm really concerned that neither the candidates really seem to
be addressing the issue of education. And I mean that
from like K twelve through the university system, more and
more teachers are quitting thetisfaction with public education as an
all time low, and the cost of university education is
only going up every single year, and we're not training
(32:10):
kids to do things other than going to college, and
those who are going to college are coming out with
a ballooning amount of debt that is sending some of
them onto the streets as homeless or putting others into
payment plans that will last thirty plus years. And I
know that education is primarily a state issue, but it
feels like the federal government needs to maybe be putting
(32:31):
conditions on university saying, if you're going to have students
taking federal debt, you can only increase your tuition x
amount every year. And could the federal government do more
to help the K twelve system in states? Reinstate, you know,
vocational education because quite frankly, not everyone can and should
(32:53):
go to university. And that's coming from a person who
has worked in teaching.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
So you're an educator yourself, Ryan, Yes, okay, thank you
for that call. Governor has on your thoughts.
Speaker 10 (33:05):
Yeah, Ryan, preach on one of the most disturbing things
about this campaign. And by the way, the same thing
in twenty twenty and twenty sixteen is there's been zero
mention of education K twelve or higher ed. And I
agree with you. We have a teacher shortage, we have
students who actually, despite everything we've done, that we're not
(33:30):
seeing true gains in learning and growth. There's ample reason
for concern, and like I said, one of those is
it's not even a topic and we never get better
anything unless we at least talk about it and argue
about it. I will say this, there are some universities
around our University of Tennessee went four years without a
(33:51):
tuition increase, Purdue University in India, and there's several that have.
So a lot of schools are understanding that if we're
going to serve our market, we can't price ourselves out
of the market, and that's really important. The other thing
I'd add is, particularly here in Tennessee, we understand that
vocational education technical education is really important. And really for
(34:12):
this governor Breticin's term, my term, and then the current
governor's term, we put increased a lot of increased dollars
into vocational tech education, realizing that gaining those practical skills
is really important.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Let me ask you before we go back to another call.
By the way, each of you, I'm going to put
you on the spot here, but as you look back
on your two terms as governor, what would you say,
we'll start with you, Governor Bretison. Is the thing that
you're most proud of that you were able to accomplish
as governor of Tennessee.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
Well, I think you know, when when I came in
as governor, the state had a big problem with its
medicaid system. We had tried to be the Massachusetts of
two decades decades later by expanding medicaid, and it was
a disaster. And while let's pret protective thing, I think
(35:01):
navigating through that and keeping the state from getting in
really deep financial trouble was a long and very arduous
and very involved sort of process. But I think I
think it laid the groundwork for both a very good
Medicaid system now and our ability to continue to do
things in other areas like it, like education, And so
(35:23):
that's something I'm I'm particularly proud of.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Governor has what about you?
Speaker 10 (35:28):
Yeah, I'm at cheating and say two things, but one
of them actually applies to Governor Bretison as much as
to my term. He started some education reform efforts that
we picked up and continued, and as a result, in
my third year in office, Tennessee became the fastest improving
state in the country in K twelve education, and it's
a good example of how government should work. In Democrat
(35:49):
administration to republic administration, kind of handed the baton and
didn't let up on some of the changes we were making,
and it showed dramatic results. The second is we became
first state in the country to give free community college
and technical school to everyone in the state. And I
think that was transformative. Again, back to one of your
(36:11):
earlier callers, it's about providing more opportunity for people. Uh,
and you know the ability to do that, I think
change the trajectory of a lot of people's lives into thenesseee.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Briefly on the topic of y'all's legacies, Terry in Houston,
Texas wants to ask both of you, if given the chance,
would you run again?
Speaker 10 (36:31):
Hmm, I'll go first, I would in a second listen.
Running for offices hard. By the way, if you want
to know what running for office is like, it's a
little like listening to your callers. You're not kind enough
to wor stand on the front porches. You hear enough
varied opinions like this story, this this this is called
the middle right. But we've had people, you know, pretty
(36:51):
pretty strong perspectives from one side of the other, and
it just shows you that's that's what campaignings like.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
But they're all willing to actually have a civil conversation,
which is one of the.
Speaker 10 (36:59):
Nice amen amen, which I love. But would I do
it again?
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (37:04):
The chance serving in public office, no matter what it is,
is difficult, particularly in today's world where people want to
hate the other side and tear their head off. But
there's very little chance to make as much difference as
you can in public office. And both of us serve
two terms as mayor and two terms as governor. And
I know for myself, but yes, I'm doing I'm doing
(37:25):
both again.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Governor Brandison. By the way, I give you a chance
you want to you want to run again.
Speaker 7 (37:32):
I'm getting a little little on in years to be
doing it again. I don't by my age, I'm qualified
for the senator of the presidency, but I don't know
about to go about governor. But the answer is that
you know, I loved my job. My job as governor
was the most rewarding job of my life. And and
(37:52):
I would, you know, if there were a chance to
do it over again, of course I would. Realistically, there's
not okay.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Uh. Drew is with us from Little Rock, Arkansas. Drew,
what's your top issue?
Speaker 16 (38:05):
Well, you know what really strikes me is that there's
I'm glad I found this the first time I listen
to your show, and it's the first time I've heard
the middle in decades. Maybe you know, there's just this
a b polar thing going on, and it's just so
heartening to hear these two gentlemen. And I fear though
(38:27):
that the Republican governor former governor, would not be considered
a Republican by most members of his party. He's a rhino,
and maybe that used to be a label of, you know,
a horrible thing to say about a Republican, but I
think it's maybe honorable now because you know, you're reasonable.
(38:50):
You know, all of us have different views of the
other side. You know, I'm a parent, what parent believes
an abortion? But do I want a sweaty, you know,
pacey politician telling my wife and me what I should
be doing. No, that's the issue, and it's just reasonableness
(39:14):
seems to have gone out the window. And I really
applaud you guys.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Well, thank you very much, and welcome to the show.
We're on every single week. You can listen to our
podcast too, Governor has them. I'll let you respond since
that was a nice compliment to you.
Speaker 10 (39:27):
Yeah, I appreciate that, I think, but look, the point
of our podcast you might be Right, or that we
got the name. There was a senator from Tennessee named
Howard Baker, and he had a famous saying that always
remember the other side might be right. And so what
we're trying to do is encourage people to at least
(39:49):
listen to the other side's argument.
Speaker 16 (39:51):
Here's what I think.
Speaker 10 (39:52):
One of the things we both learned in office, these
decisions are harder and more complex than you think they are.
And if you think that's simple and that's obvious, then
you probably haven't worked hard enough to understand the other
sides arguments. And so again, one of the things we're
trying to do with our podcast, you Might be Right,
is let's at least explore both sides and then you
(40:15):
can decide where you want to end up.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I also want to say, neither of you guys looks
pasty right now?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (40:20):
No?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Or sweat?
Speaker 16 (40:21):
How about sweat?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
How about sweaty?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You guys look great.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Let's get to another caller, Kai is with us. Kai
is with us from Palatine, Illinois. Kai, Welcome to the
middle go ahead.
Speaker 17 (40:35):
Hi, nice to be on. So I'm a young student.
I'm twenty years old. I'm currently attending college, and I
feel that, honestly, a big problem that I have is
with education. I'm seeing a lot of misinformation spread online.
Even right now, I'm scrolling through Twitter and seeing all
(40:57):
this minter information and people not wanting or not feeling
the need to fact check what they see online really
really saddens me and it makes me worried. So I
feel that we as a nation need to really emphasize
in our education system that we should be you know,
(41:18):
telling our students, hey, keep looking, keep going places, make
sure that you are critically thinking about everything that you see.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
And is that going to affect your vote this this November.
Speaker 17 (41:35):
I think I've already had my mindset for this November
with a lot of what I've seen, especially with a
lot of the news coming out about the about Trump's
case recently for the twenty twenty election. But yeah, making
sure that we have a properly funded education system, which
(41:59):
a printed color set was more based on the state, Yes,
but put in the pressure to increase our quality of education,
especially in lower funded places, is very important to me.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Kai, thank you very much for that. Governor Brettison your
thoughts on that. I mean, Kay is basically saying he
wants to have an informed electorate, people that are really
critically thinking about what they're reading, what they're seeing, and
coming back to the issue of education again.
Speaker 7 (42:23):
Yeah, I think it's something that you know that needs
we need to figure out how to incorporate more of
that in secondary education in the school system, because I
think it's really important. I mean, my own background educational
background is in the hard science, as physics, and one
(42:44):
of the things that you learn in doing that is
when somebody tells you something, to say, you know, okay,
now do I believe that? Can I get at it
another way? This makes sense compared to other kinds of
things I know, and I think just helping to helping
students understand and that those questions are important and the
skepticism for listening to anyone is important. It's one of
(43:07):
the most important things we can do as opposed to,
you know, teaching facts that are regurgitated on multiple choice
tests in the education system.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Let's go to Claire who's in a swing state. Without
a number of swing states this hour, but Madison, Wisconsin. Claire,
welcome to the middle. What's your top issue?
Speaker 14 (43:27):
Hi, Jeremy, Thank you, Jeremy. I am worried. I'm worried
about the outcome if Donald Trump wins. The Supreme Court
has basically given him carte blanche. What is he going
to do with that immunity? And if he loses, is
(43:48):
he going to accept it? Or are we going to
have another ugly revolution.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
I'm very scared, Claire, I understand that. And you bring
up the Supreme Court. I do wonder is the Supreme
Court part of the reason for your vote? Is that
a top issue for you? Just think because Trump obviously
put three members onto the Supreme Court during his first term. Yes, yeah,
(44:15):
she's brief, Claire. Thank you for your brevity. I appreciate it.
We've got so much to get to. I appreciate your brevity.
Governor has them your response to Claire? There who there
are a lot of people who are worried about this
very issue about whether Trump will accept it if he loses,
but also the issue of the Supreme Court, which hasn't
really been in the news as much this election season,
(44:36):
but it's always there in the background.
Speaker 10 (44:40):
I think underlying all of this is a loss of
trust in our institutions, and whether that be the democratic process,
the Supreme Court, the judicial system, etc. And that's incredibly
concerning to me. And when people do things that make
whether it's politicians or others, make people like think, you know,
(45:04):
our systems can hold. Our systems holding, our institution's holding
is what separates us from, you know, the places we
think of as banana republics or whatever whatever you want
to call it, the more unstable governments around the world.
And I just think it's critically important that we not
do anything to cast doubt where there shouldn't be doubt
(45:25):
on institutions.
Speaker 6 (45:26):
So I'm hoping this is going.
Speaker 10 (45:29):
To be a really, really close election, and my concern
is I don't think it'll I don't think we'll know
by eleven o'clock on election night who won. I think
it's going to take a little time to get all
the final results in and I am worried about that
period while it's being decided, and then if anybody decides
to contest the results of that, you know, it's just
(45:51):
going to further fracture our country that doesn't need any
footing anymore splitting.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
I know I'm going to regret this, but I'm going
to go to the phones one more time for Jamie Dallas, Texas. Jamie,
just be brief, but tell us what you're thinking. What's
your top.
Speaker 19 (46:04):
Issue, gentlemen, I'm My top is who is the departure
from the silent generation leading this country. I was glad,
even though I voted for Biden, I was glad to
see that he stepped aside. I think there was an
honorable and genuine thing that he did. Now, with that
being said, I know you, gentlemen are close to that
generation or you grew up under it. I grew up
(46:26):
with my grandparents and my parents they are of that generation. Now,
this is not a uniquely American deal. You guys mentioned
that you would your age would qualify you for the
center of the House, whether it be Pelosi, McConnell, all
these people, Grassly and all this outside of the United States.
It is not uniquely American. G and putin Mody and India,
the leader of Iranda, all of that silent generation, and
(46:49):
I would just ask, why is it that that generation
will not release power and move on and put your
grandkids on your knee and let the world move on.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Jamie, thank you very much for that. Yes, wait, let
me let Governor Bredison in here, because because he I
want to give him the last word on this.
Speaker 7 (47:08):
Well, I think in both of our cases we actually
did kind of cut it off, even though we said
both said we'd like to be you know, governor again,
should should the circumstances permit it. But you know, I
think a part of it simply has to do with
how structured and kind of narrow our process for determining
(47:33):
who runs and electing people is so that people who
already have a presence for you know, having been on
the Senate or someplace or another in their forties and
fifties and sixties have a real leg up on being
able to continue to achieve it.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Unfortunately we have to leave it there. But what an
amazing what an amazing hour. I want to thank my
guest former governors of Tennessee. Bill has Them a Republican,
and Phil Bredison, a Democrat. Their podcast is called you
Might Be Right. Thank you both so much for joining us.
Thanks and next week we're going to be talking about
one of the big issues in this election, which we
heard a little bit about this hour, immigration and deportation.
(48:15):
H Donald Trump has called for deporting all the undocumented
immigrants in this country.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Be sure to call in at eight four four for
a Middle. That's eight four four four six four three
three five three, or you can reach us at Listen
to the Middle dot com, where you can also sign
up for our free weekly newsletter.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
The Middle is brought to you by Long Nook Media,
distributed by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced
by Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, sam Burmisdas, and John barth.
Our intern is an Akadeshlar. Our technical director this week
is Steve mork And. Thanks to our podcast audience and
the more than four hundred and ten public radio stations
making it possible for people across the country to Listen
(48:51):
to the Middle, I'm Jeremy Hobson and I will talk
to you next week.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Names
Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson, along with our
house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver the listeners, as you know,
are the stars of this show, and not just when
they get pulled over by the police while they're on
the phone.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Oh my god. Yeah, I'm never gonna forget that call.
I'm pretty sure she's doing a hard time right now.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I changed her life. I hope not. But this hour,
the listeners are definitely the stars because rather than saying
this is the issue we're going to talk about this
hour with just one month to go before the election,
We're gonna say what is the most important issue to
you with one month to go until the election? And
the thing about a topic like that is, well, who
do you bring on the panel who can talk about anything?
(00:44):
Tall Oprah? Pretty we got Oprah. She's busy, But we
do have two former governors, one Democrat and one Republican
who've had to deal with just about every issue under
the sun, and we're going to get to them in
just a moment and take your calls at eight four
four Middle. That's eight four to four four six four
three three five three. But first on our last show,
just after the debate between vice presidential candidates jd Vance
(01:07):
and Tim Walls. We asked you for your thoughts. Here
are some of the reactions to the debate that didn't
make it onto the show.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
My name is Julie Brigaman. I live in Columbia, Illinois.
I really didn't know how the Republicans must be blaming
seems like almost everything on illegal immigrants. I didn't know
that they were the reason behind a housing shortage the economy.
It seemed like he blamed everything on the migration problem.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yes, my name is Jeremy.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
I'm in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Speaker 6 (01:37):
Before this debate, I didn't really know too much about
either one of the vice presidential nominees.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
But I think it really gave us.
Speaker 7 (01:46):
An opportunity to see who Waltz really.
Speaker 8 (01:49):
Is and give us an opportunity to.
Speaker 7 (01:51):
See what he really stands for.
Speaker 6 (01:54):
And I think he did a great job.
Speaker 9 (01:56):
Hi. This is Rachel Brand from Denver Corado debate. I
came off feeling more positive about Jade Vance. He comes
across a very intelligent He's got a lot of very
idealistic notions that may not have any tethered to reality,
but they sure do sound good.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Thanks to everyone who called in, and you can hear
that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts,
on the iHeart app or wherever you listen to podcasts.
So now to our topic this hour. What is the
most important issue for you with one month left till
the election? Tolliver, can you give us the number? Please?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, it's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four
four four sixty four three three five three, or you
can write to us that listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Let's meet our panel. Phil Bretson was the Democratic governor
of Tennessee from two thousand and three to twenty eleven,
and Republican Bill Haslam held the office right after him
from twenty eleven to twenty nineteen. Together, they host the
You Might Be Right podcast in partnership with the Baker
School of Public Policy and Public Affairs at the University
of Tennessee, Knoxville. Governors, welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 7 (02:58):
Thank you great to be here. We had to tell
Oprah that we've preempted her.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I know we're going to have to We're going to
have to let her know that before we get to
the funds. I want to ask each of you just
about the very serious storm that has just ravaged so
much of the southeast, including Tennessee, Hurricane Helene. A lot
of problems going on, their devastation in a number of states,
including Tennessee. What does the country need to know about
(03:23):
what's happening in Tennessee? Governor Bretison, Oh.
Speaker 7 (03:27):
I think I thought that the that that from what
I can see, that FEMA and the federal government were
doing a good job of responding. One of the one
of the things we ought to be proud of in
this country is is a good, good emergency response operation,
and it's it was devastating to see some of the
plutting in upper East Tennessee, but also over in North
(03:50):
Carolina and down and down in Georgia, and really appeal
for those people. But I do think the federal government
did did what it needed to do and has continuing
to do what it needs to do to try to
alleviate some of the suffering.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Governor Brettison, There are so many moments when hurricanes come
right before an election, and you know, you think of
Hurricane Sandy back in twenty twelve, Hurricane Katrina in two
thousand and five, before the two thousand and six midterms
where they can really have an effect. Do you think
that Hurricane Helen, the preparation, the response will have an
effect this year?
Speaker 7 (04:23):
You know, I don't think, certainly, not at the level
that Sandy did, which got much more weaponized in the
election there. But the fact that the response has been
from the federal government seems to have been, you know,
to me, a very responsible one and an effective one.
I don't think I should have that kind of an
(04:45):
effect this year. Could be wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Governor has them. What do you think of right now
of the response to Heleen in Tennessee and in other states?
Speaker 10 (04:54):
Yeah, I think the initial response has been good. I
think what I'd want people to know is this storm
in major damage and the fact that this is in
the mountains makes it so much harder. There's fewer routes
of ingress and egress to get places. People are trapped.
The water that flows off of those mountains has to
go somewhere. It creates tremendous you know, tremendous strained downstream,
(05:19):
down river, and this is going to be a long
time to clean up. And I think what Governor Bretison
I would both tell you is you have the initial
response when everybody shows up, and then you have the
how do we rebuild this? And I talked to somebody
today who was a farmer who lost all of his
equipment and regular insurance. Regular insurance doesn't cover floods. This
(05:43):
is what fourteen hundred year flood like a flood that
you'd expect once every fourteen hundred years. So it is
going to be a long time rebuilding from this.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Before we get to the calls and they're starting to
come in and fill up the lines. The two of
you host this podcast called you Might Be Right. You
come from opposite party. Uh, it's not always easy for
people to talk to people they disagree with politically. Governor Bretison,
how do you guys do it?
Speaker 7 (06:08):
I think it's I think it's well, first of all,
to be realistic, it helps that we're both from the
sort of relatively reasonable middle wings of our so we're
not we're not shouting each other across you know, this huge,
huge gap, all this obviously differences in worldview and and
so on, the fact that we were that we were
friends before this, I think helps. It helps a lot
(06:30):
as well. It's one of the things I you know,
it kind of feels getting lost in politics. I think
there was a time when Democrats and Republicans could, you know, fight,
fight about something during the day and have a drink
together at night. And I think we've tried hard to
establish that kind of a relationship that you know, there's
there's two elements to it. There's a lot of mutual respect,
(06:50):
and there's some things we disagree on.
Speaker 10 (06:53):
Although I should add that we don't go drinking every
night together.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
That's just to be clear, just on weekends.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, let's get to the phones where again asking people
what is the number one issue to you as we
head into this election just one month away. Our number
is eight four four four six four three three five three.
Joseph is in Saint Louis. Joseph, what's the number one
issue for you?
Speaker 11 (07:17):
Evening? I'm a single issue voter, and it's immigration. I'd
like to see deportations of everyone illegally here and an
immigration moratorium for the foreseeable future. In the last few years,
everyone I know, except for the very wealthy, and I
don't know too many of those, but the upper middle class,
the working class, Black, white, Hispanic who are legal residents
(07:42):
have really been struggling I mean, I've been watching some
of my friends young families cracking apart under financial pressure,
and it's just incomprehensible and offensive to see our government
spending our tax dollars, housing, feeding, clothing, healthcare, all of
these things. For know, these these people coming in and
they want a better life. I get that, What about
(08:04):
our better life? I mean, a bank robber wants a
better life too, and we don't allow that. And we
separate bank robbers from their families and send them to jail,
and we don't let their kids take their ill gotten games.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So, Joseph, Joseph, let me just ask you one follow
up here, because one of the things that we've heard
over the last couple of months is that this very
conservative immigration bill that was a bipartisan bill, was put
together by a very conservative Republican was basically shot down
by former President Trump, who it was reported that he
you know, wanted to be able to run on this issue,
(08:37):
didn't want it done. Are you upset with him about
killing that bill?
Speaker 11 (08:42):
No, that that bill was a hope. It was a
Chamber of Commerce, Republican thing that allowed five thousand immigrants
in a day. And then it was up to the
discretion of the president whether to even stop it. I mean,
that's that's insane. It was not a good bill for
someone who's an immigration restrictionist like me. And in the
larger the larger thing is it's you know, it's fine
that some people come in, but with this mass, unrelenting
(09:04):
millions and millions, it's past social trust. It fractures the
national identity and you know, from the breakup of the
Ottoman Empire to Yugoslavia, Rwandas Rwanda, even Northern Ireland, these
things can have you know, if we lose a war,
or if the dollar is the reserve currency, it could
get really ugly as all.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Okay, justin thank you very much for that. I'll go
to you, Governor Bretison on that this is actually in
the polls, immigration is seen as one of the top issues,
one of the top one or two issues going into
this election.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
I think where I might disagree a little bit with
your caller is, you know, we shouldn't confuse immigration, you know,
which is not well controlled at the moment, which I
would certainly certainly say is the case with just immigration
as a general good. I mean, I think on the
whole having immigrants, having people who come here to college
(09:58):
be able to stay on and function in the country.
They're clearly are places where the labor force needs needs.
The immigrants for things of farming is an obvious one.
Some of the building trades, you know another. And it's
me the issue is not immigration or no immigration, it's uh,
we have I think we have the duty to control
(10:18):
our border and make political decisions about who we want
to admit and who we don't. And I think that's
the direction we ought to be going in. And I
actually think the you know, the bill that was that
was up there was was a reasonable first step in
that direction.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
But of course it did not go anywhere. To Tolliver,
we were going to be talking about the big issues
the economy, immigration and other things. But sometimes what pushes
a candidate over the top is something entirely different, something
that may not affect the daily lives of voters.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, Like in the year two thousand, fresh off the
Monica Lewinsky scandal, George W. Bush ran against Bill Clinton's
Vice President Al Gore. Here he is on restoring honor
and integrity to the White House.
Speaker 12 (11:00):
If I'm the one that you dominate to our start
on the nomination process tomorrow and eventually become your president.
When I put my hand on the Bible on that
January day of two thousand and one, I will swear
to not only upoll the laws of the land. I
will swear to a poll the honor and the integrity
of the office to which I have been elected. So
(11:20):
help me, God, Thank you all for coming.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
God bless remember it like it was yesterday.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
That was a very close election. By the way, Tolliver,
what five hundred and thirty seven votes in the state
of Florida. So I guess honesty and integrity back into
the White House wasn't that good of an issue because
heated by a landslide. We'll be right back with more
of the middle. This is the middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
If you're just tuning in the Middle as a national
call in show, we are focused on elevating voices from
(11:48):
the middle geographically, politically, philosophically, or maybe you just want
to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you
what is the most important issue for you with one
month left till the election. Tolliver, what is the number
for people to call it?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It's eight four four for a Middle. That's eight four
four four six four three three five three. You can
also write to us that listen to the Middle dot
com or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I'm joined by former Tennessee Governors Phil Brettison, a Democrat,
and Bill Haslam, a Republican. And let's go back to
the phones because they're full. Laura is in Nashville, Tennessee,
one of your constituents, perhaps former constituents. Laura, Welcome to
the Middle. Go ahead with your top issue.
Speaker 9 (12:25):
Hi.
Speaker 13 (12:26):
I am calling because I feel like, for me personally,
the biggest issue is LGBTQ right, specifically trans rights for miners.
I'm the proud mom of a trans kid, and I
(12:47):
feel like this issue, especially over the last couple of years,
has become a very divisive issue, and it feels like
these kids are being used as scapegoats. And I'm fortunately
we're in a state where there are laws on the
books that prevent my child from having the same rights
as a cist gender child. We have to travel out
(13:10):
of state to get the healthcare that he deserves, and
that you know, I'll do anything for my child like
most parents, but it makes me angry and he's at
the point now, you know, he's a couple of years
away from going to college, and he's talking about going
out of the country for college and living out of
(13:31):
the country because he does not feel safe. Thankfully, we're
in Nashville, so it's progressive and safe. He's at a
great school and has great friends and community. But you
know that's not the case. There are states we can't
even travel to and be safe. So anyway, that's my issue.
And I want to say hi to the governors. I
love both of you. So I voted for both of you.
(13:52):
So nice to hear your wine.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Wow, a bipartisan vote. And Laura, thank you very much
for that. Yeah, because governor has them. Let me go
to you on that, because for many people it could
be the issue of trans rights where they have a
family member who is thinking about their own rights. It
could be also the issue of abortion rights in many
places where people feel like it's really personal for them.
(14:15):
Whatever they're voting on, it really has to do with
their own lives and their rights.
Speaker 10 (14:22):
Right, And so let me let me back up, and
the premise of our podcast you might be right, is
these are hard issues and our country is evenly split.
I think that's a little bit of the theme of
your show, Jeremy is we think that everybody thinks like
we do, but it's obviously not true. The country's fairly
evenly split, and the point of our podcast is to say,
(14:42):
these hard issues, whether they be lgbt Q issues, whether
they be immigration, gun rights, et cetera, let's stop and
listen to the other side and hear their perspective. Because,
as Laura said, who called, once it's personal, Once it's
your family that's facing an issue you around, whether it's
sexuality or immigration, whatever it is, then everything looks a
(15:07):
little different. So the point of our show is to say,
listen to the other side to see if there are
some things that you might learn from them, you know,
And it's hard to comment just you know, from thirty
thousand feet exactly about Laura's question, I would say this.
I think for a lot of folks it's a question
(15:27):
of having with minor children, are their parents part of
the decision making process or not, because that feels like
a real distinctive to me that when it's up to
a minor, we require their parents to sign off on
a whole lot of things for them, and so if
it involves something as critical as their gender identity. The
(15:47):
parents should be a part of that. If it's a
minor child would be the first thought that I am.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Governor Bretison, do you have do you have a different
thought on that or do you agree with Governor Haslm.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
I certainly, I certainly you know, as as a parent
would want to be involved in that decision with my
own child, I do agree with that. I also think
that you know that that you know, I mean a
part of I mean, a part of the ethic of
this country is the notion that you know, there's the
(16:19):
notion that we're you know, we're all God's children, and
and that everyone ought to be valued for, you know,
for who it is that they are. There's a quote
from Samuel Johnson that I love, you know, from a
long time ago. It's which says, it's no one dream
that pleases these all. And I think just recognizing that
there's a lot of different ways to to conduct your
(16:41):
life and and have respect for and that's important. The
one thing that I probably a little to the right
of my party on is I do have questions when
you start talking about, you know, things that can't be
reversed being done to children who are not who are
(17:01):
not of age, or we're not a team to make
their own decisions. I'm not sure that really is the
kind of informed consent for those kinds of things that
I would like to see. I'd like to learn more
about it, but that gives me some pause.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I also do want to highlight that Tennessee has one
of the very few transgender elected officials, Olivia Hill in
Metro Council in Nashville.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Let's go to Dia, who's in Upper Darby, Pennsylvania. Dia,
Welcome to the middle. What's your top issue?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I am concerned that income inequality is being cast onto
immigrants and anybody who can be othered who is also struggling,
instead of the people who are really squeezing the country,
which are the super wealthy and corporations. You have these
corporations that own all these companies under one umbrella and
(17:56):
can buy up real estate and can inflate prices and
get money from the government that they use for stock
buybacks and don't pay their workers enough. And because they
own media companies, they can create this narrative that know,
the problem is immigrants, or the problem is poor people,
or the problem cities and take the light off of themselves,
(18:17):
and people buy it because this country, because of capitalism,
wants to find an other to blame for why they
don't have what they believe they should have.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
So on the issue of income inequality, deal, what would
you like to see done.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
There should be more regulation about monopolizing companies. There should
be higher taxes on the super wealthy. We should have
taxes on unrealized gains. And I think that there should
be caps on how much people can be paid. You
have these CEOs that are making obscene amounts of money
and the people who work for them, who are actually
(18:57):
doing the work, that can't serve on their income. And
there needs to be more enforced income and equality. And
this idea of unbridled capitalism really requires human suffering to survive.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Dia, thank you for that. Governor Haslam as a Republican,
what do you think about about what Dia just said there?
Speaker 10 (19:19):
Well, let me let me say this. I think the
market based system capitalism has been responsible for pulling more
people out of poverty worldwide than anything else. And is
it perfect?
Speaker 14 (19:31):
No?
Speaker 10 (19:31):
Can we have a completely market based system? No, But
I don't think the idea of I think thea said
enforced income equality. I don't think that's that's never worked anywhere,
and it's naturally never brought people out of poverty. The
market based system, with all of its faults, I still
(19:52):
think is the best thing we have going in the world.
I think it's one of the reasons we have an
economy that's far above you know, what you see in
the rest of the world.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
But do you see any threat to the market based
system from either of these candidates? Governor Haslm, Actually don't.
Speaker 10 (20:09):
I don't listen. I mean, obviously they're going to come
from different places, and if you look at kind of
the spectrum of government controlled versus market controlled, they're going
to come from different places on the spectrum. But the
answer your question is, I don't see either of them
threatening that. I personally would like to see both of
them addressing some of the structural issues around our deficit
(20:33):
in this country, which neither one of them is talking
about at all, which I think is really serious. But
that's a separate issue that I think what Diana is
calling about.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Let's go to Duke who's in Livingston, Montana. Duke, welcome
to the middle Go ahead with your top issue.
Speaker 15 (20:49):
Yeah, Hi, my top issue is keeping our democracy intact.
Speaker 16 (20:56):
We have a candidate here.
Speaker 15 (20:58):
Whoozes Putin and other dictators, said he wants to be
a dictator on day one Project twenty five, which is
basically going to do away with all the bureaucrats who
are experts in their agencies and replace them with political appointments.
(21:19):
The candidate has said, oh, once, you just vote one
more time and then we're going to fix it so
you don't have to vote again. That's Donald Trump saying
all this stuff. Democracy is the most important thing we
have in our country. What matters if the price of
bread goes up, or if there's more immigrants coming in
to our country, what matters if gasoline prices go up?
(21:40):
And nothing matters if we lose our democracy. I mean,
do we want to be in a dictatorship? Do we
want to live in Russia where people are afraid to
speak out for fear they're getting put in jail forever. No,
that's the most important thing that we keep our democracy intact.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
So think you're going to be out welcome. Thank you
for that. I think it there, And let me go
to Governor Bretisen for his response to that. A lot
of people feel the same way that democracy is the
most important issue and they see a threat. By the way,
I will note that in polls, Democrats see a threat
from Trump for the things that Duke was talking about.
Republicans often see a threat because they think that there's
(22:17):
going to be voter fraud and that's the threat to democracy.
Speaker 7 (22:21):
Yeah, it's I actually I agree with with that caller.
And in a lot of ways you didn't ask us,
But I mean, for me, the most important question in
this election, the kind of the gorilla in the rum,
is not immigration or economy or you know, or anything else.
It's whether we're willing to try to recover an American
(22:43):
government that works like the Founders intended for into work
in the constitution set up to work, or whether we're
going to continue this march towards some being like some
impomperished you know, third third world country with just out
of control of tribalism and people seeking power at any
at any cost. And it's not only about the presidency,
(23:04):
you know, it's also about who you like to the Congress,
who you like to the Senate. And I think those
are you know, those are fundamental issues. Most of the
other issues, if we have a working government. We can
work through those we have for two hundred plus plus years.
That's what really scares me about this is is whether
there's enough people willing to say it's important to restore
(23:27):
the kind of government that our founders attended.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Governor has them. What do you think about that? Do
you agree with Governor Bretison?
Speaker 10 (23:33):
Well, partly, listen, if you go talk and I talk
to people on both sides, you know of this, and
both parties are death. Both people in both parties are
definitely afraid that the other side means to ruin our country.
And it's really distinctive how much people feel that way.
(23:55):
If if their side wins, it's going to be the
end of our country as we know it. I'll say this,
I think what really is important, and I think this
is the part I really agree with what Phil was saying.
Is this understanding how our constitution is designed, how this
(24:16):
country is supposed to work, is really important. And I
think our founders had the wisdom to know that we're
imperfect people, and so they put a system in place
that had checks and balances to it in anything that
doesn't anything or any person or group that doesn't respect
those checks and balances and how it's supposed to work,
and how it's we're supposed to understand that there's compromise
(24:37):
has to be built into the process. I think is
uh is a long term danger to the to the country.
Speaker 7 (24:45):
Yeah, and I think, you know, I mean, the other
thing I think the founders understood was that there was
always going to be a range of world for you.
Those people have got different life experiences, they've got different
belief belief systems that you had to have a kind
of government could function in that environment. You know, they'll
accommodate that reality and allow us to govern and still
protect those with differing views. I mean, that's what I
(25:08):
fear we're losing in the attitudes of people, and what
I think the selection ultimately is going to play a
major role in switching us on one course or the other.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Dan is in Boston, Massachusetts. Dan, Welcome to the Middle.
What's your top issue?
Speaker 8 (25:25):
Hi, Jeremy, thanks so much.
Speaker 17 (25:26):
I love this show.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 8 (25:29):
Yeah, I think most Americans are actually in the middle,
so I appreciate you speaking to us. My top issue
for the election is climate change. Barack Obama and John
McKean ran on climate platforms that were very similar, and
(25:50):
yet it's a divided issue today. My question to the
governors is, how do we get back to consensus on
an issue that threatens this our national and global security, food.
Speaker 18 (26:08):
Supply order, immigration, I guess yeah, well, I'm thinking about
flooding and so forth on the coach.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
It's going to wipe out a huge amount of our
infrastructure eventually, and of course it's going to drive immigration.
What we see now is is just a trickle compared
to what will happen in twenty thirty years when Mexico
and Country South desiccate and can't support agriculture. So why
(26:44):
can't we get it together on climate change? There's so
much opportunity if we get it right.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Dan, Thanks, great question, Governor Haslam. Your thoughts on that
and how how we get to a point where we're
not fighting over something that you know ninety percent of
the scientists agree is happening.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 10 (27:01):
And folks in my party who either deny or want
to say climate change is in an issue or that
it's not caused by man, I think are wrong. Okay,
so let's start there. I think we also have to
realize that we can't go to solely sustainable sources of energy.
(27:23):
We can't say let's go totally there, because when we do,
you'll see energy become short. That the demand for energy now,
due to all the technology we use, is actually, for
the first time in a long time, back to increasing
at a fairly rapid race rate because of everything we
want out of our phones, in the AI that's driving
(27:45):
our computers, et cetera. So I think we have to
be realistic that we can't get there overnight, but we
need a plan to do it. And I think what
some folks need to hear is that as we work
toward a sustainable future, we do it with the entire
picture in mind. And I'll give you the example that
(28:05):
I use a lot. And when COVID happened, we had
people that said, shut the economy down, everybody stay home
till this goes away, And we saw nobody took into
account the impact on kids in schools and on jobs,
and on relationships and people's mental health, et cetera. Because
some people said let's just shut it all down. I
(28:27):
think what scares some people is the sense of if
we say yes, this is a real issue, that folks
are going to say, let's just shut the economy down
until we get it under control. I'm dramaticizing there, but
I think you get the point I'm making.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
We're getting some comments in online. Ken DeBusk in Sturgis,
Michigan says number one issue preservation of democracy in our constitution.
Number two health care, and Emily and de Luth Minnesota.
The most important issue for me in this election of
reproductive healthcare rights, as I believe reproduct healthcare is an
essential right. We're hearing from you and listened to the
middle dot Com and Tolliver. We've been talking about some
(29:06):
of these big issues, but often there's an October surprise,
something that we weren't really thinking about, but then it
makes a big effect on the election. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
In twenty sixteen, the October surprise was FBI Director James
Comy announcing he was reopening the Hillary Clinton email probe
just eleven days before the election. Here's Clinton responding, I.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Have now seen Director Comy's letter to Congress. We are
eleven days out from perhaps the most important national election
of our lifetimes. Voting is already underway in our country,
so the American people deserve to get the full and
complete facts immediately. The director himself has said he doesn't
(29:49):
know whether the emails referenced in his letter are significant
or not. I'm confident whatever they are will not change
the conclusion reached in July.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
And by the way, she has said Tolliver that that
was a decisive reason for her loss in twenty sixteen.
Actually agree. Yeah. We will be right back with more
of your calls coming up on the Middle. This is
the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour, we're asking you
what is the most important issue for you with one
month left until the election. You can call us at
eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four four
(30:23):
six four three three five three. You can also reach
out to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
I'm joined by former Tennessee Governors Bill Haslam, a Republican,
and Phil Bretson, a Democrat. And before we go back
to the phones, uh, Governor Brettison, let me ask you this.
There are people right now people ask me of us
all the time, what is up with these undecided voters?
How have they not figured it out yet? You now have?
(30:45):
You know you've been through a number of elections. Why
are people undecided after all this time, at this point
in the race.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Well, I think, you know, I think there's I think
there's there's always some and I think in particular in
this race, you have people who like some of the
things that Donald Trump says that he's going to do,
but are unsure about his suitability to be president and
are trying to balance those two things in their minds.
(31:15):
And probably probably the same with on the other side,
but I think not as not as strongly. But you
also have people who just, you know, when I get,
you know, these calls from people and so on, I
often say it. I'll say I'm undecided. I'm just, you know,
don't really appel I need to share who I'm voting for.
Every time somebody asked me the question, I think all
(31:37):
those are factors.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Ryan is joining us from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Ryan, what's your
top issue?
Speaker 6 (31:47):
I'm really concerned that neither the candidates really seem to
be addressing the issue of education. And I mean that
from like K twelve through the university system, more and
more teachers are quitting thetisfaction with public education as an
all time low, and the cost of university education is
only going up every single year, and we're not training
(32:10):
kids to do things other than going to college, and
those who are going to college are coming out with
a ballooning amount of debt that is sending some of
them onto the streets as homeless or putting others into
payment plans that will last thirty plus years. And I
know that education is primarily a state issue, but it
feels like the federal government needs to maybe be putting
(32:31):
conditions on university saying, if you're going to have students
taking federal debt, you can only increase your tuition x
amount every year. And could the federal government do more
to help the K twelve system in states? Reinstate, you know,
vocational education because quite frankly, not everyone can and should
(32:53):
go to university. And that's coming from a person who
has worked in teaching.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
So you're an educator yourself, Ryan, Yes, okay, thank you
for that call. Governor has on your thoughts.
Speaker 10 (33:05):
Yeah, Ryan, preach on one of the most disturbing things
about this campaign. And by the way, the same thing
in twenty twenty and twenty sixteen is there's been zero
mention of education K twelve or higher ed. And I
agree with you. We have a teacher shortage, we have
students who actually, despite everything we've done, that we're not
(33:30):
seeing true gains in learning and growth. There's ample reason
for concern, and like I said, one of those is
it's not even a topic and we never get better
anything unless we at least talk about it and argue
about it. I will say this, there are some universities
around our University of Tennessee went four years without a
(33:51):
tuition increase, Purdue University in India, and there's several that have.
So a lot of schools are understanding that if we're
going to serve our market, we can't price ourselves out
of the market, and that's really important. The other thing
I'd add is, particularly here in Tennessee, we understand that
vocational education technical education is really important. And really for
(34:12):
this governor Breticin's term, my term, and then the current
governor's term, we put increased a lot of increased dollars
into vocational tech education, realizing that gaining those practical skills
is really important.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Let me ask you before we go back to another call.
By the way, each of you, I'm going to put
you on the spot here, but as you look back
on your two terms as governor, what would you say,
we'll start with you, Governor Bretison. Is the thing that
you're most proud of that you were able to accomplish
as governor of Tennessee.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
Well, I think you know, when when I came in
as governor, the state had a big problem with its
medicaid system. We had tried to be the Massachusetts of
two decades decades later by expanding medicaid, and it was
a disaster. And while let's pret protective thing, I think
(35:01):
navigating through that and keeping the state from getting in
really deep financial trouble was a long and very arduous
and very involved sort of process. But I think I
think it laid the groundwork for both a very good
Medicaid system now and our ability to continue to do
things in other areas like it, like education, And so
(35:23):
that's something I'm I'm particularly proud of.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Governor has what about you?
Speaker 10 (35:28):
Yeah, I'm at cheating and say two things, but one
of them actually applies to Governor Bretison as much as
to my term. He started some education reform efforts that
we picked up and continued, and as a result, in
my third year in office, Tennessee became the fastest improving
state in the country in K twelve education, and it's
a good example of how government should work. In Democrat
(35:49):
administration to republic administration, kind of handed the baton and
didn't let up on some of the changes we were making,
and it showed dramatic results. The second is we became
first state in the country to give free community college
and technical school to everyone in the state. And I
think that was transformative. Again, back to one of your
(36:11):
earlier callers, it's about providing more opportunity for people. Uh,
and you know the ability to do that, I think
change the trajectory of a lot of people's lives into thenesseee.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Briefly on the topic of y'all's legacies, Terry in Houston,
Texas wants to ask both of you, if given the chance,
would you run again?
Speaker 10 (36:31):
Hmm, I'll go first, I would in a second listen.
Running for offices hard. By the way, if you want
to know what running for office is like, it's a
little like listening to your callers. You're not kind enough
to wor stand on the front porches. You hear enough
varied opinions like this story, this this this is called
the middle right. But we've had people, you know, pretty
(36:51):
pretty strong perspectives from one side of the other, and
it just shows you that's that's what campaignings like.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
But they're all willing to actually have a civil conversation,
which is one of the.
Speaker 10 (36:59):
Nice amen amen, which I love. But would I do
it again?
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (37:04):
The chance serving in public office, no matter what it is,
is difficult, particularly in today's world where people want to
hate the other side and tear their head off. But
there's very little chance to make as much difference as
you can in public office. And both of us serve
two terms as mayor and two terms as governor. And
I know for myself, but yes, I'm doing I'm doing
(37:25):
both again.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Governor Brandison. By the way, I give you a chance
you want to you want to run again.
Speaker 7 (37:32):
I'm getting a little little on in years to be
doing it again. I don't by my age, I'm qualified
for the senator of the presidency, but I don't know
about to go about governor. But the answer is that
you know, I loved my job. My job as governor
was the most rewarding job of my life. And and
(37:52):
I would, you know, if there were a chance to
do it over again, of course I would. Realistically, there's
not okay.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Uh. Drew is with us from Little Rock, Arkansas. Drew,
what's your top issue?
Speaker 16 (38:05):
Well, you know what really strikes me is that there's
I'm glad I found this the first time I listen
to your show, and it's the first time I've heard
the middle in decades. Maybe you know, there's just this
a b polar thing going on, and it's just so
heartening to hear these two gentlemen. And I fear though
(38:27):
that the Republican governor former governor, would not be considered
a Republican by most members of his party. He's a rhino,
and maybe that used to be a label of, you know,
a horrible thing to say about a Republican, but I
think it's maybe honorable now because you know, you're reasonable.
(38:50):
You know, all of us have different views of the
other side. You know, I'm a parent, what parent believes
an abortion? But do I want a sweaty, you know,
pacey politician telling my wife and me what I should
be doing. No, that's the issue, and it's just reasonableness
(39:14):
seems to have gone out the window. And I really
applaud you guys.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Well, thank you very much, and welcome to the show.
We're on every single week. You can listen to our
podcast too, Governor has them. I'll let you respond since
that was a nice compliment to you.
Speaker 10 (39:27):
Yeah, I appreciate that, I think, but look, the point
of our podcast you might be Right, or that we
got the name. There was a senator from Tennessee named
Howard Baker, and he had a famous saying that always
remember the other side might be right. And so what
we're trying to do is encourage people to at least
(39:49):
listen to the other side's argument.
Speaker 16 (39:51):
Here's what I think.
Speaker 10 (39:52):
One of the things we both learned in office, these
decisions are harder and more complex than you think they are.
And if you think that's simple and that's obvious, then
you probably haven't worked hard enough to understand the other
sides arguments. And so again, one of the things we're
trying to do with our podcast, you Might be Right,
is let's at least explore both sides and then you
(40:15):
can decide where you want to end up.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I also want to say, neither of you guys looks
pasty right now?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (40:20):
No?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Or sweat?
Speaker 16 (40:21):
How about sweat?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
How about sweaty?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You guys look great.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Let's get to another caller, Kai is with us. Kai
is with us from Palatine, Illinois. Kai, Welcome to the
middle go ahead.
Speaker 17 (40:35):
Hi, nice to be on. So I'm a young student.
I'm twenty years old. I'm currently attending college, and I
feel that, honestly, a big problem that I have is
with education. I'm seeing a lot of misinformation spread online.
Even right now, I'm scrolling through Twitter and seeing all
(40:57):
this minter information and people not wanting or not feeling
the need to fact check what they see online really
really saddens me and it makes me worried. So I
feel that we as a nation need to really emphasize
in our education system that we should be you know,
(41:18):
telling our students, hey, keep looking, keep going places, make
sure that you are critically thinking about everything that you see.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
And is that going to affect your vote this this November.
Speaker 17 (41:35):
I think I've already had my mindset for this November
with a lot of what I've seen, especially with a
lot of the news coming out about the about Trump's
case recently for the twenty twenty election. But yeah, making
sure that we have a properly funded education system, which
(41:59):
a printed color set was more based on the state, Yes,
but put in the pressure to increase our quality of education,
especially in lower funded places, is very important to me.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Kai, thank you very much for that. Governor Brettison your
thoughts on that. I mean, Kay is basically saying he
wants to have an informed electorate, people that are really
critically thinking about what they're reading, what they're seeing, and
coming back to the issue of education again.
Speaker 7 (42:23):
Yeah, I think it's something that you know that needs
we need to figure out how to incorporate more of
that in secondary education in the school system, because I
think it's really important. I mean, my own background educational
background is in the hard science, as physics, and one
(42:44):
of the things that you learn in doing that is
when somebody tells you something, to say, you know, okay,
now do I believe that? Can I get at it
another way? This makes sense compared to other kinds of
things I know, and I think just helping to helping
students understand and that those questions are important and the
skepticism for listening to anyone is important. It's one of
(43:07):
the most important things we can do as opposed to,
you know, teaching facts that are regurgitated on multiple choice
tests in the education system.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Let's go to Claire who's in a swing state. Without
a number of swing states this hour, but Madison, Wisconsin. Claire,
welcome to the middle. What's your top issue?
Speaker 14 (43:27):
Hi, Jeremy, Thank you, Jeremy. I am worried. I'm worried
about the outcome if Donald Trump wins. The Supreme Court
has basically given him carte blanche. What is he going
to do with that immunity? And if he loses, is
(43:48):
he going to accept it? Or are we going to
have another ugly revolution.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
I'm very scared, Claire, I understand that. And you bring
up the Supreme Court. I do wonder is the Supreme
Court part of the reason for your vote? Is that
a top issue for you? Just think because Trump obviously
put three members onto the Supreme Court during his first term. Yes, yeah,
(44:15):
she's brief, Claire. Thank you for your brevity. I appreciate it.
We've got so much to get to. I appreciate your brevity.
Governor has them your response to Claire? There who there
are a lot of people who are worried about this
very issue about whether Trump will accept it if he loses,
but also the issue of the Supreme Court, which hasn't
really been in the news as much this election season,
(44:36):
but it's always there in the background.
Speaker 10 (44:40):
I think underlying all of this is a loss of
trust in our institutions, and whether that be the democratic process,
the Supreme Court, the judicial system, etc. And that's incredibly
concerning to me. And when people do things that make
whether it's politicians or others, make people like think, you know,
(45:04):
our systems can hold. Our systems holding, our institution's holding
is what separates us from, you know, the places we
think of as banana republics or whatever whatever you want
to call it, the more unstable governments around the world.
And I just think it's critically important that we not
do anything to cast doubt where there shouldn't be doubt
(45:25):
on institutions.
Speaker 6 (45:26):
So I'm hoping this is going.
Speaker 10 (45:29):
To be a really, really close election, and my concern
is I don't think it'll I don't think we'll know
by eleven o'clock on election night who won. I think
it's going to take a little time to get all
the final results in and I am worried about that
period while it's being decided, and then if anybody decides
to contest the results of that, you know, it's just
(45:51):
going to further fracture our country that doesn't need any
footing anymore splitting.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
I know I'm going to regret this, but I'm going
to go to the phones one more time for Jamie Dallas, Texas. Jamie,
just be brief, but tell us what you're thinking. What's
your top.
Speaker 19 (46:04):
Issue, gentlemen, I'm My top is who is the departure
from the silent generation leading this country. I was glad,
even though I voted for Biden, I was glad to
see that he stepped aside. I think there was an
honorable and genuine thing that he did. Now, with that
being said, I know you, gentlemen are close to that
generation or you grew up under it. I grew up
(46:26):
with my grandparents and my parents they are of that generation. Now,
this is not a uniquely American deal. You guys mentioned
that you would your age would qualify you for the
center of the House, whether it be Pelosi, McConnell, all
these people, Grassly and all this outside of the United States.
It is not uniquely American. G and putin Mody and India,
the leader of Iranda, all of that silent generation, and
(46:49):
I would just ask, why is it that that generation
will not release power and move on and put your
grandkids on your knee and let the world move on.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Jamie, thank you very much for that. Yes, wait, let
me let Governor Bredison in here, because because he I
want to give him the last word on this.
Speaker 7 (47:08):
Well, I think in both of our cases we actually
did kind of cut it off, even though we said
both said we'd like to be you know, governor again,
should should the circumstances permit it. But you know, I
think a part of it simply has to do with
how structured and kind of narrow our process for determining
(47:33):
who runs and electing people is so that people who
already have a presence for you know, having been on
the Senate or someplace or another in their forties and
fifties and sixties have a real leg up on being
able to continue to achieve it.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Unfortunately we have to leave it there. But what an
amazing what an amazing hour. I want to thank my
guest former governors of Tennessee. Bill has Them a Republican,
and Phil Bredison, a Democrat. Their podcast is called you
Might Be Right. Thank you both so much for joining us.
Thanks and next week we're going to be talking about
one of the big issues in this election, which we
heard a little bit about this hour, immigration and deportation.
(48:15):
H Donald Trump has called for deporting all the undocumented
immigrants in this country.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Be sure to call in at eight four four for
a Middle. That's eight four four four six four three
three five three, or you can reach us at Listen
to the Middle dot com, where you can also sign
up for our free weekly newsletter.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
The Middle is brought to you by Long Nook Media,
distributed by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced
by Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, sam Burmisdas, and John barth.
Our intern is an Akadeshlar. Our technical director this week
is Steve mork And. Thanks to our podcast audience and
the more than four hundred and ten public radio stations
making it possible for people across the country to Listen
(48:51):
to the Middle, I'm Jeremy Hobson and I will talk
to you next week.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Names
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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