October 18, 2024 • 49 mins
On this episode of The Middle we'll be asking you what you want the next President (whoever that may be) to do about the economy. We're joined by financial analyst Juli Niemann and business journalist Roben Farzad. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus callers from around the country. #economy #markets #inflation #prices #costofliving #Trump #Harris
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Support for the Middle comes from the Tiwani Foundation, making
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More information on how you can support the middle at
Listen to the Middle dot com. Welcome to the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver.
(00:23):
I have an idea instead of talking about the economy
this hour, I was thinking, let's just listen to my
Spotify playlist.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh cool, the whole hour.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm with it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Let's get it man, ok I'm next.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah, because this actually happened this week. Take a look.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
So play YMCA, go ahead, Let's go nice.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
And loud, Nice and loud, Nice and loud.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You know what I think of Donald Tump I think
of the village view.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, So we're not going to do that. We are
going to talk this hour about the issue that is
usually the most important issue to most voters. That would
be the economy. What do you want the next president
to do about it? We'll get to your calls in
a moment. At eight four four four middle. Well that's
eight four four four six four three three five three.
But first, last week we asked you what you want
done on another big issue, immigration and deportation. We got
(01:09):
a lot of great calls. Here's some that came in
after the show.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
My name is Beth Ann. I'm from Denver, Colorado. I
think immigration is an important I think we need a
better vetting system to keep criminals out, but I think
that the next president should look into making sure that
people can get here legally because our economy is so
based on foreign help.
Speaker 6 (01:32):
Hi, this is Elizabeth and I'm calling from the Cincinnati region.
I want to see controlled immigration. So immigration is a
great thing for this country when it's in line with
what helps the country grow.
Speaker 7 (01:43):
Hi.
Speaker 8 (01:43):
My name is Steve and I'm calling from Anabraam, Michigan.
I believe in a secure border, as I think most
Americans do. So let's naturalize these folks. Let's let them
pay their taxes because they're already here and it just
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in, and you can
hear that entire Ppace episode on our podcast in partnership
with iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app or wherever you
listen to podcasts. So out of our topic this hour,
what do you want the next president to do about
the economy? Vice President Kamala Harris has floated numerous tax
credits for working families and tax increases for corporations and
(02:18):
high earners. Former President Trump, on the other hand, has
talked about cutting taxes and putting tariffs on all foreign endpoints.
When it comes to the economy right now, a lot
of the indicators look good. Inflation down, consumer spending up,
the unemployment rate low around four point one percent, but
food prices are up about twenty five percent since the
(02:38):
COVID pandemic, and recent data from the Pew Research Center
finds fewer than a quarter of Americans currently rate the
country's economy as excellent or good. So what do you
want the next president to do about the economy? Tolliver,
what is our number?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's eight four four four Middle that's eight four four
four six four three three five three, or you can
write to us to listen to the Middle dot com.
We already have so many responses, so join them.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And the calls are coming in as well. Let's meet
our panel from Saint Louis Julie Neeman, financial analyst with
Smith Moore and Company. Julie, great to have you back,
Thanks Jeremy. And business journalist Robin Farzad, host of Full
Disclosures with Us from Richmond, Virginia. Robin, welcome to you.
Speaker 9 (03:18):
Thank you, Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
And before we get to the phones, let me just
talk to each of you. Julie. This is from a
recent CNN article. It says, quote, the job market is booming,
Inflation has come back down to earth. Americans are spending
like crazy whatever. Voters don't care. They still think the
economy is trash. Why is that.
Speaker 9 (03:38):
This out of.
Speaker 10 (03:39):
Touch for the out reality has been going on for
three years and boys, some of the economists we read
been with them earlier that we're in a recession. We're
going into a recession. It's the end of Western civilization
as we know it. I think this sense of impending
doom is just a result of twenty twenty. But the
reality is we have been recovering very nicely. We're continuing
on it and right now there's no evidence of any
(04:00):
recession coming. So you have emotion and you have feelings
ahead of facts, and that's the big problem. Nobody's connecting
with the facts. It's feelings that they have.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
But Robin farzaid, you do have higher prices, as we said,
does how you view the economy just depend on your
own personal circumstances.
Speaker 9 (04:21):
I don't think you're going to have the White House
run victory laps around this stock market or record housing prices,
because there's so many people locked out of both. It's
considered a first world privilege. But I really think it
goes back to inflation. As we know. You know, I
would say the majority of Americans had not experienced capital
eye inflation. It's something that really visited us in the
(04:41):
early eighties that the Paul Vulker fed had to try
to arrest. And so there are all these misconceptions out
there that XYZ cost four dollars at the grocery store,
at the restaurant in twenty nineteen. Why is it now,
you know, five dollars and seventy five cents. Why isn't
it back to four dollars If we've broken the back
of inflation. That's not the way inflation works. And so
there's a lot of anger out there. Even if the
(05:03):
economy is creating jobs, it's so much cold comfort if
you're still feeling the sticker shock at restaurants, hospitality, fomo,
car insurance. I mean, Jeremy, you've gone through all the
various things that have gone up kind of parabolically.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well, Julie, what do you think would satisfy Americans on
the economy right now? What would make them feel good
about it? Given that there are these many indicators I mean,
short of I guess prices coming down by twenty five percent,
although that might not be a good thing. If you
have prices dropping that quickly, that would be deflation.
Speaker 10 (05:33):
Right What we have right now is inflation definitely getting slower,
but its prices are still going up and people are
still digesting the higher prices. To begin with, they've got
good wages now, good job, solid ability to buy, but
those wages cannot possibly keep up with rates of inflation.
And two key areas where everybody feels it food housing.
(05:54):
Those are the two things that are still not being
under control with inflation.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
One more thing, let's get to the phones, Robin Farzad,
how much power does the president have to affect the economy,
Because I think back like to two thousand and eight,
right before the election. If the president had all the
power then George W. Bush would never have allowed a
financial crisis to occur right before the election.
Speaker 9 (06:16):
No, it's in the hands of the Fed. There were
some extraordinary powers during the pandemic, obviously with fiscal stimulus,
and if you remember, Donald Trump wanted his signature big
lely on those checks and that was a part of,
you know, the the circumstances that led to inflation. But
as we know, it's the Federal Reserve. Maybe they waited
too long to hike. Maybe they'll left too much stimulus
out there. Maybe just maybe there was way too much
(06:38):
PPP to go around and people got to double dip
and triple dip and the economy took way too much
stimulus and we snapped out of it. I don't think
it's like, you know, the late Hugo Shaves of Venezuela
has a call in show. I think it was called
Hello Comandante or something, and people would complain like I
can't get cement anywhere, and you could go and see
it on YouTube. But he's like, send this man a
(06:58):
donkey in five sacks. You know, that's not the way
this country works.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's well, that's what Tolliver does sometimes with our callers. Yeah,
let's get to the phones and Gregory, who is calling
from Lakeland, Florida. Gregory, welcome to the middle What do
you think about the economy? What do you want the
next president to do about it?
Speaker 7 (07:17):
Hey, thank you for having me and thank you for
having this conversation. What do I think about economy? I'm
a business owner. I work here in the home improvement
UH industry. If the economy is doing bad, I don't
think people really actually know it. People say that people
still buying stuff, people still getting this fix, people still
getting that fixed. I want new child here new So
they say that it's the economy is bad, but people
(07:41):
still spending money like crazy. And I think the biggest
thing where people actually talk about this inflation. I think
the biggest problem is the Republicans have a great megaphone
with Fox News, so they put this information out and
Democrats megaphone is not really that good at all, and
nobody really listens to that megaphone. I actually did, I
have a household of man. I actually did my numbers
(08:02):
to see actually how much more money I'm actually spending
since the place is at the highest point of inflation,
and it's basically I get this. I get to I
have to buy what two less tendency bottles a month
every two weeks. I can't go out and buy a
Hennessy bottle. It's not really you know. I found about
thirty dollars thirty dollars there own food, and that's what
(08:22):
a seven person household. So like people talk about inflations,
but we actually add up how much you're actually sending.
It's not really that much. Now, what really is killing
people is housing. Housing is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Just briefly, Gregory, what would you like the next president
to do when it comes to housing? Do you have
an idea of what you'd like them to do?
Speaker 7 (08:42):
Oh, well, I'm out here in Florida, so living around
the ten says, actually could have did something for me
better than what the president could have did. He could
have put it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
In rent control, rent control again.
Speaker 7 (08:52):
With rent control, that would actually kept housing down and
that would have actually made a big difference in people life.
It's more housing that's actually killing people. Bore then, actually
groceries and food because thirty forty dollars okay up there
in that extra but we've been in about two times
as much for renally as he was four or five
years ago. That's that's a big difference. That's a big kid.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Okay, we've got it. We've got it. Thank you very
much for that. On NeXT's right exactly. You can come
back anytime. But Julie Neman the interesting there. Gregory says
he's spending more than ever and that housing is still
an issue though.
Speaker 10 (09:28):
Yeah, the key thing is the housing problem is a
long term problem. We've had a housing shortage for the
last fifteen years and it's going to take a good
ten years to get this corrected. There has been no
funding since the collapse of the global financial system, and
it was that in two thousand and eight and nine.
There has been no significant lending on massive scales to
(09:50):
housing development, housing sections. You know new Town's going up.
None of that is happening.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Massive development, and that's what we need, you think more
than that's what we need to.
Speaker 10 (09:59):
Have happened and has to have funding for it. Now,
where are you going to get that funding? Well, the
banks are absolutely paranoid. They brought us into the mess
of two thousand and eight nine and now they're afraid
to do anything. They have good cause for that, because
they tend to be terrible in terms of analyzing risk.
So I think the government has to step in here
with some kind of subsidy program or at least loan guarantees,
(10:19):
a new Fany May, a new Freddie Mac whatever it is,
to help with the development of it, because this is
going to be a long term problem.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Robin, what do you think about what Gregory was saying there?
It is an interesting point that he thinks people are
spending more than ever before, even if they complain about it.
And he brought up Fox News and sort of the
megaphone of people saying the economy is bad in the media.
Speaker 9 (10:40):
Yeah, you try to find a landscaper or a stonecutter,
or a mason or anybody who deals with heating, HVAC people,
heat pump people. Housing is still on fire. And I
don't understand, Julie Tolliver. Maybe somebody can explain it too
much America, You know, are we supposed to be stimulating
cutting interest rates and mortgage rates into this? Is that
targeting the air I mean to those who are to
(11:01):
have lessons and the have nots when housing is already
on fire. I don't see how you get older people
who've been holding onto housing with the renaissance of remote
living and work from home to unleash some of that
inventory to hungrier, younger families. I don't see targeted policy
out there.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Tolliver. The line, it's the economy stupid, which sort of
works for the show that we're doing right now, came
from an advisor to former President Bill Clinton, James Carville.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, and listen here to a key moment from the
nineteen ninety two presidential debate, when then Arkansas Governor Bill
Clinton talks about having his finger on the pulse of
the state's economy.
Speaker 11 (11:37):
I've been governor of a small state for twelve years.
I'll tell you it's affected me. Every year Congress and
the President's signed laws that make us do more things,
it gives us less money to do it with. I
see people in my state, middle class people. Their taxes
have gone up in Washington and their services have gone down,
(11:57):
while the wealthy have gotten tax cuts. I have seen
what's happened in this last four years. When in my state,
when people lose their jobs, there's a good.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Chance I'll know them by their names. I don't know
if that's really true. I find that kind of hard
to believe, but it's still a big state even you know, in.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The nineties Man of the nineties.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, it was, but I will say that the unemployment
rate at that time was seven point one percent when
he said that, and now it's four point one percent.
We'll be right back with more of your calls on
the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If
you're just tuning, in the Middle is a national call
in show. We're focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically,
(12:35):
and philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in
the middle. This hour, we're asking you, what do you
want the next president to do about the economy? Tolliver,
what is the number to call in?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media. I'm checking them all.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And I'm joined by business journalist Robin Farzad and financial
analyst Julie Nieman, and the phone lines are lighting up.
So let's go to Phil and Ate seen Wisconsin. Phil,
what do you want the next president to do about
the economy?
Speaker 12 (13:06):
Well, I would let this is Phil Schultz and the
scene I would like to see the very rich golden fleece,
golden fleece to pay down to pay off the national debt.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
That's what you'd like to say, Tax the rich and
pay off the debt.
Speaker 12 (13:32):
Yeah, no, the golden give them the golden fleece. Give
them the golden fleece, and so we can get money
to pay down the national debt.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Okay, Julie neven the golden fleece.
Speaker 10 (13:53):
That's a rage against the very rich who are paying
almost nothing in terms of taxes. Exxon has tax rate
of seven percent. Some of the richest people in the
United States quote owe money but haven't paid it in
centuries because they have the money to keep appealing and
dodging all around with it. We want to see fairness
in the tax just because the rest of us are
paying our taxes.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So what do you do?
Speaker 10 (14:14):
There is one simple solution that has been around for years.
Forbes was the first one to come out with it,
and that is a flat tax, no deductions. Everybody pay
fifteen percent. The only people would have some exemptions from
that rate would be the poor, but everybody else, including corporations,
pays fifteen percent with no deductions. It's the deductions that
(14:38):
give you all the tax dodging and those are all
the goodies that congressmen hand out well.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And by the way, the presidential candidates are proposing more
deductions that Kamala Harris wants, a new deduction for starting
a business, a new deduction for buying a home, and
things like that. Let's get to another call. Abby is
in Chicago. Abby, what do you think the next p
resident should do about the economy?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
I think, hey, thanks for having me on the call,
and it's a great panel to have to discuss about
the you know, the economy stupid. But uh, in terms
of the next president, the policy should be in line
with trying to obviously get their national debt down. And
I know the national debt doesn't work in similar lines
to a person debt, but at the same time, being
(15:24):
physically responsible always, you know, is better for the country. Also,
to be honest, you know, it's not from a from
talking point of other people on the on the calls today,
it's more the corporations being greedy and you know, I
would go to the extent of saying it's the greedy
(15:45):
stupid and it's not necessarily the economy where co operations
and the greed that they display.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
But so so I'll be just just to drill down
on something you said there. So are you more interested
as a voter in the debt, the national debt coming
down versus more, let's say, goodies for you or for
other people in this country, but more more money coming
to people.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
So there's two ways of doing that.
Speaker 13 (16:13):
So there is one ways to get goodies, but at
the same time there's a cost benefit ratio analysis, so
that as a benefit of getting a goody.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I don't think it should be done. There should be
find fine understanding of policy to take steps towards giving
goodies while at the same time not necessarily putting at
risk the debt in that sense.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Okay, I'll be thank you very much. You know, it's interesting,
Robin Farzad that these last two colors have brought up
the debt.
Speaker 9 (16:45):
Yeah, it sounds almost you know, Uh, drink your milk,
stay in school, be a good kid. Eat who's out there,
you know, who's out there carrying the torch for against
fiscal profligacy? I mean, clearly not. It's it's not the
Maga GOP. I mean, you know, the kind of Rockefeller
Republicans the Chamber of Commerce, class and everything. That's all like,
(17:06):
you know, you talk about Julie, you talk about Steve Force.
I mean that's totally forgotten. That's so nineteen ninety six vintage.
And especially over the past five years, we've been putting
so much on the tab. But I think we've not
been punished for that profligacy. It's not like borrowing costs
of sword. The United States has an exceptionalism where you know,
things go wrong and people pile into our debt, and
(17:27):
our borrowing costs are still relatively low. I mean, if
they were runaway and Congress had to get its act
together and really cut a lot of that fat out,
that'd be one thing. And if you saw real crowding
out of private investment. But you have thriving capital markets
right now. You have people kind of saying, what meat
worry even though if you see it on a chart,
the amount of debt increase, you know, since the last recession,
(17:49):
since the last huge slowdown is staggering.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Ben is joining us from Saint Petersburg, Florida, just after Milton. Ben,
what do you think, what's what's what does it look
like from your end in terms of the economy.
Speaker 14 (18:04):
Hi, Jeremy, thank you so much taking my call. I'm
on a It's like a micros spectrum of of what
you guys have been talking about. We just had Hurricane
Milton come through and it was this is the first
I've lived in Florida for seven years, and this is
the storm. This storm came through like nothing else. Luckily, myself,
(18:27):
my girlfriend, and my dog evacuated, but our roof was
torn off and I can't live in my home. But
more anything that I wanted to do, I wanted to
come back home last Friday and go back and support
my local businesses. I have a bakery two blocks from
my house that I want to go back, and I
wanted to buy a loaf of bread, and it just
(18:48):
in my thoughts. There's so many local small businesses in
Saint Petersburg. You know, everyone says Tampa. Tampa is a
big place. Saint Petersburg. We're on the other side of
the Bay and we're a community of neighborhoods and there
are so many small businesses that they're they're posting on
(19:09):
Instagram and Facebook and TikTok. If you have it that
that they can't survive past this. If no one comes back.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
So but are you getting as a small business though,
Are you getting the help that you need right now
from FEMA or do you feel like just in the
long term it's going to be a bigger issue.
Speaker 14 (19:32):
I can't move in my house until sometime next year probably,
And they're small businesses. They've gutted everything, and they're no,
I I applied, I can't, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
So so obviously, Ben, Ben, you're you're dealing with an
immediate problem. Just to bring us back on topic for
this program, is there something bigger about what you would
want the president to do economically right now? Or is
it just about helping Saint Peter's the places that were
hit by the hurricanes.
Speaker 14 (20:03):
Wasn't the SBA unfunded as of two days ago? That
was announced right? The Small Business Assistants they said they
ran out of money.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Julie Neiman, you're you're nodding there.
Speaker 10 (20:16):
Yes, they did. They're asking for a special grant from
Congress to refund them to get more in their low
likelihood they will right they're depleted.
Speaker 14 (20:24):
And and our congress people, Jeremy, our congress people aren't
going to be back in office for a month. Next
session of Congress doesn't start until the sixteenth, and I
and and and we have rond de Santis, I call
them Ronnie d but and you laugh.
Speaker 7 (20:46):
I laugh.
Speaker 14 (20:47):
And I love the state of Florida. This is such
a beautiful, beautiful state, and especially the Tampa Bay area.
I mean, if anyone, if any anyone in the country,
if you're listening right now, please in a couple of months,
come back down Fort Tampa Bay to Fort Saint Petersburg.
Speaker 15 (21:05):
It's such a beautiful.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
We okay, Ben, we've got we've got We've got it.
And thank you for that commercial for Florida. And you
know it'll be very nice in the next few months.
But they thank you very much for that call. You know,
I do want to ask you, Robin Farzad, about that
because there are people, there are so many big issues
that have big you know, events that happen like the hurricanes,
that have huge economic impacts. And while we sort of
(21:29):
you hear Ben talking about that, you think, oh, this
is a specific problem to people who are living in
this place. So many places have had climate disasters over
the last year or natural disasters and are in the
same situation where they need the government to step in
at moments like that with money.
Speaker 9 (21:45):
Yeah, but also think about you know, I grew up
in Miami. I'm to think about the idiosyncratic problem AFT
in the wake of the Surfside condo collapse, where all
of these older people right now stuck with special assessments.
And I don't want to be very provincial and parochial
about Florida. They're experiencing kind of a huge capital call
right now. Many financial crisis older Americans, people in older
(22:06):
condos who either have to sell it at a huge
markdown or pay up for a big special assessment in
order to make code. This economy's success is not really
visiting them. If you're stuck with you know, you've seen
these articles on the Wall Street Journal. It's happening in Tampa,
it's happening in Fort Laerdale in Miami. You're stuck with
one hundred and fifty thousand dollars assessment. You thought that
(22:26):
would be money that you'd have for retirement. You have
to have a lot of coordination with I don't know
whatever it is these people are essentially looking for a bailout.
Who's at fault? Was it the condo boards? Was it
climate preparedness? I mean, you know, we were kind of
punting on this for decades, and then this is a
lot specific to kind of coastal America and a lot
(22:47):
of people on the inside, and you cover the middle,
I mean may not experience things like this. So I
mean when I talked to my mom, when I talked
to my friends and their friends' parents in Florida, these
are the things that are front and center right now.
Not necessarily, you know, one hundred thousand jobs created last
month or the month before, Tolliver.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Some notes coming in on Listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Absolutely, Tom and Detroit gets straight to the point. He says,
raise taxes on everyone making over three hundred thousand a year,
Jim and Champagne. Jeremy, I think he's right over your shoulder, right,
he says, I would like I'd like to tackle the
issue of minimum wage as an unfunded mandate. I believe
in a minimum wage. More than that, I consider the
minimum wage to be important enough to be backed by
the full government. Jeremy, I'll tell you the candidate that
(23:28):
will get my vote is the one that brings me
a giant publisher's clearinghouse check.
Speaker 9 (23:33):
I'm voting for them all right.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
That's I think a lot of people probably feel that way.
Maria is with us from Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Maria,
welcome to the middle.
Speaker 16 (23:42):
Go ahead, thank you.
Speaker 17 (23:46):
I would like the next president to raise the minimum
wage and to protect the middle class, and to continue
investing in our infrastructure and in train people for the
jobs of the future. I am in education and I
(24:08):
can't tell you how much we need jobs job training,
so that is a huge thing in North Carolina. I
also think a voting rights act that makes elections fair
would help our economy because our state is carrymindered and
(24:31):
has a legislature that does not represent the people. It's
legislates against the interests of the working class. And if
we could vote in real three elections in North Carolina,
we could elect true representatives that would help our states
(24:54):
make much more progress instead of having these legislatures that
are engaging in cultural war and a creating divisions. So
in North Carolina, we need an active president who will
solve some of the big problems.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Maria, thank you very much. Julie Neeman, Maria brings up
for the first time in this hour, training people for
the jobs of the future. Are you hearing that from
the presidential candidates, I haven't heard very much talk about
training for the jobs of the future or artificial intelligence
and what to do about jobs that are going to
go away Because of that.
Speaker 10 (25:29):
Probably the biggest answer is that there's no answer for that.
You know, that is really something that's pie in the
sky at this point. What are the jobs of the future?
Figuring it out? That's what those futurists all come up with.
What's going to get you voted in right now is
what are you going to do for me right now?
Which this lady is saying is that we need better education. Absolutely,
(25:49):
do we need job or training. Every time an industry
is shut down, you have to retrain. We've had so
many companies go away here in Saint Louis, airlines go down.
Everybody had to retrain and they did, but it was painful.
It's just the process you have to go through, is retraining.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
Hmmm.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Let's go to Max Susan Wellington, Colorado. Max, what do
you think the next president should do about the economy?
Speaker 15 (26:13):
Boy, there's no shortage. I apologize if I'm getting the
name incorrect, but is there a guest name Julian Julie?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, Julie.
Speaker 15 (26:23):
Sorry, I want Julie to be president.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Same Yeah, well okay, but okay.
Speaker 15 (26:32):
I'd like to if you'd indulge me. I'd like to
start with a quick joke.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Knock knock, who's there there?
Speaker 15 (26:39):
Economist?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, economists too.
Speaker 15 (26:43):
Economists the last down turn. But I'll try to do
better next time. Anyway, it goes without saying that you my.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Dad joke repertoire, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Max, I'm gonna let
you go because I want to just find out what
people think we should have the next president do about
the economy. But thank you for those jokes, and let's
just get another call in here. Yolanda in Kansas City
is with us. Yolanda, what do you want the next
president to do about the economy?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Well, I would like them to have some vision for
a future that is built on growth and supporting people's
needs and not on destruction. We are spending, just in
one country alone, eighteen billion dollars on the Israeli military.
We are now short on FEMA funding and it needs
you know, we need to stop funding militarism. We need
(27:31):
to stop funding construction. We need to basically fund healthcare,
We need to fund education. We need to fund retraining.
Industries that are basically benefiting from all alone need to
be retrained so that they basically can do things that
are good for people. And it can be done, but
(27:52):
you have to have the vision to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Let me just briefly ask you. Let me just briefly
ask you, how would you rate the economy right now?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
How would I rate the economy? Well, as far as
I would say that, we have a lot of a
long way to go. Okay, we do not take care
of people's needs. There's no funding for child care for
people who make minimum wage, there's no you know, education
needs better funding. Healthcare I'm a physician. Healthcare is horrible.
Speaker 12 (28:23):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
People say, oh, you have safety and at clinics, Yeah,
we have safety and clinics fund just closed in Kansas City, Kansas,
where I practice. Three thousand people have been with no insurance,
are left sort of stumbling trying to figure out how
they're going to get their medications in there and their
healthcare because they don't have And then the insurance industry
that they created it is totally horrible. I think they
need to be taken out of the mix totally, to
be honest, because why do you think people like me
(28:46):
who I'm now Medicare eligible get eighteen calls a day
during open enrollment so that I joined. They're a damage
plan to this plant because they are making billions from US, okay,
and that money should be going into providing healthcare and
we providing a safety net for people that are having
to retrain. They're retraining.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Jilanda, thank you very much for that stuff they do.
They've got a lot to say tonight, Robin Farzad, though
your your thoughts there, I mean, she does bring up
an interesting point which we do here when we do
shows like this, that people don't want the US spending
money on wars, way too much money on defense.
Speaker 9 (29:22):
Some people think, yeah, I mean, I'll say in a
mercenary sense that money is overwhelmingly going to you know,
US arms makers who've been flush, who've been in clover
because of that, and there's a whole military industrial complex
whose outlays are really not questioned, whether you're talking Ukraine
or various things going to the Middle East or other allies.
The caller does make a really important part. There's a
(29:43):
there's a bit of a financial crisis going on with
rural health care providers, Jeremy, and we will hospitals going
out of business, er units OBG y ns and there's
a real disparity, and.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
We'll get to that. But Taliver, I have to say,
the economy is such a consequential issue that it can
actually bring entire presidential care campaigns to a halt.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
That's right in the wake of the two thousand and
eight financial crisis, Republican Senator John McCain's that spitted his
campaign to focus on passing legislation to repair the nation's
fractured economy, all with less than a month to election day.
Speaker 18 (30:12):
Tomorrow morning, I'll suspend my campaign and return to Washington
after speaking at the Clinton Global Initiative. I've spoken to
Senator Obama and informed him of my decision, and I've
asked him to join me.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I'm calling on the.
Speaker 18 (30:28):
President to convene a leadership meeting from both houses of Congress,
including Center Obama and myself. It's time for both parties
to come together to solve this problem.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, I remember then Senator Obama said I can do
two things at once. I can campaign and legislat.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Right, right, and then and then he won. We'll be
right back with you more of your calls coming up
on the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
This hour, we're asking you what do you want the
next president to do about the economy? You can call
us at eight four four for Middle. That's eight four
four four six four three three five three where you
can reach out and listen to the Middle dot com.
(31:08):
I'm joined by financial analyst Julie Neeman and business journalist
Robin Farzad. And while we have a break from knock
Knock jokes, Robin Farzad, let me just ask you. Donald
Trump has talked about a ten percent tariff on everything
across the board, and up to one thousand percent tariffs
on specific things. What kind of an effect would that have?
Speaker 9 (31:29):
You know, it was a great Wall Street journal piece
on the potential for tariffs to approach what we saw
in the Great Depression, and holly smoot, these things have
unintended consequences. You're you're sometimes playing with fire. I don't
know how it how it plays in the grand scheme
of things. How does it hit you back at Walmart
where you know, what would they say is Walmart is
one of the largest trading partners in the country. If
it was a country onto itself, who cries uncle first,
(31:52):
we China, Germany, the various other players you saw, it
had unintended consequences with with agriculture. It sure sounds great,
you know, stick it to the foreigners taking our jobs,
the foreign companies and the scheming globalists. But in practice
I think it ends up we end up paying for it.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Julie Nima and Kamala Harris has talked about tax credits
for childcare, for starting a small business, for first time
home buyers, raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Do
you think that if she were to win, that those
policies would actually happen, would be able to get through Congress?
Speaker 10 (32:30):
I doubt it, simply because in almost every single elections,
promises are made, promises are made, and usually nothing is
done about it. There'll be a token attempt to get
something through, and especially if you have a divide in Congress,
which looks increasingly probable, nothing gets through. And so we've
become appreciative when you have a locked situation. At least
(32:52):
no mischief can go through when it's locked, But you
would have to have completely one way or the other
all Republican, are all Democrat? Get through what your wish list.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Was, although in the last two presidential elections, we did
end up with a situation where the president and his
party had both Houses of Congress, at least in the beginning.
Let's go to Marcus, who is in Duluth, Minnesota. Marcus,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 19 (33:18):
Thank you, fortekting my call. We were talking about the economy,
and I think one thing that could be potentially very
helpful for many Americans is regulating interest rates, in particular
on things like student loans government student loans. I myself
am a teacher in a university, and in order to
(33:43):
get promotion, I had to get a terminal degree. So
I've gone back to school and have now acquired an
additional one hundred thousand dollars of student loan debt, and
the interest rate on my most recent government student loans
is three times higher than it was when I graduated.
With my master's I'll be paying student loans with Social
Security checks hopefully.
Speaker 15 (34:03):
Wow.
Speaker 19 (34:05):
So I think something that could certainly help many Americans
in my situation is just regulation that interest rates.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Let me ask Robin Farzad about that. Very good point. Marcus,
thank you very much, Robin Farzad, Is there a way
because the money does cost something, So if the cost
of you know, school is this high, is there a
way for the government to bring down the prices the
interest rates on these loans further than they already do.
Speaker 9 (34:33):
There are federally subsidized loans and grant systems, as you
know from the college and grad school process, but the
courts and Capitol Hill can very indeed thwart presidential fiat
as you saw with the Biden administration and trying to
wipe away you serious student loans. You know that that
was a ten thousand dollars idea or various other back
channels they tried to take for barons putting it off
(34:56):
during the pandemic. It's much easier said than done, and
you don't really it's not something that the executive branch
onto itself can do unilaterally. I will say, as you know, Jeremy,
that there's a big rethink right now about debt in general.
That if they're jobs that are available that you could
take with one or two year apprenticeships in lieu of college,
if you can go into trade school, if you can
(35:17):
learn kind of evy repair, get into solar and other things.
The payoff, the risk reward is just much better than
a four year liberal arts degree for the time being.
So that's really a diminishing return.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Oh I could jump in, Yeah, please, Julie.
Speaker 10 (35:31):
Nobody's entitled to go to Harvard or to Vanderbilt or
onto the big eastern colleges. If you choose to go
somewhere where you're going to get on two hundred thousand
dollars worth of debt to get a degree, you might
want to think about this. I do believe in public education,
and the significance of tuition in public universities is so
much different than that. You're not going to graduate with
(35:53):
a staggering amount of debt. Who ever thought that you
would have to be entitled to go to these elite universities.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I will say, though, Julie, I taught a class today
at the University of Illinois and I asked the students
how much they're paying. And the in state tuition is
like thirty thousand dollars now, even for the big state school.
So it's gone up a lot. I mean, it really
has gone up a lot. Let's go to Colby, who's
in Houston. Colby, Welcome to the middle. Go ahead.
Speaker 20 (36:24):
Hey, So when I tuned in, y'all were talking about
housing and food and it got me thinking, I live
in Texas and we have an abortion ban, and I
believe this is going to cause a ripple effect. It's
going to cause a huge increase, well not a huge,
but a significant increase in the demand for goods and
services and housing, and we might not be able to
(36:45):
keep up with it.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
You know, Explain what do you mean by that? How
did the how would the abortion ban cause a ripple
effect like that?
Speaker 20 (36:53):
Well, for one, on the on the micro level, someone
who can't afford to have a child is now in
a position where they have no choice. And on a
larger level, well, you're going to have an uptick in.
Speaker 7 (37:09):
Birth rates.
Speaker 20 (37:09):
And when you have people who aren't moving out of
their houses. You got empty nesters who've got five bedroom
houses and it's just them sitting there. You know, this
is going to cause an increase in demand and they're
wont And also in food and other services across the board,
school overcrowding things like this, and especially in Texas where
(37:30):
teachers and obg y ns are leaving the state.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Kolby Thank you very much. I'm glad you I'm glad
you brought that up, because Julie Neman, this is an
issue that I think is kind of still under the
radar in this election. This is going to be the
first presidential election since the Dobbs decision, and Kobe brings
up something that that there's an economic impact to what's
happened with abortion in this country in the last two years.
Speaker 10 (37:56):
The amount of outrage over this is pretty breathtaking. But
it's not just exactly with the elected officials. You know,
it goes much deeper than that, especially with the courts.
At this point, the only thing that's going to get
change anything is going to be at the at the election,
you know, at the at the ballot box. From an
economic standpoint, it's going to be an economic cost to
(38:17):
the people who are suffering from it, namely the women
who can't get proper medical care. How do you measure that, Well,
it's amounts hospitals can keep record.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Let's go to David, who's in Woodstock, Illinois. David, welcome
to the middle. What do you think the next president
should do?
Speaker 15 (38:33):
Hi?
Speaker 16 (38:35):
Yeah, Hi, thanks for the program. Yeah, there's so many
different approaches I've changed my thoughts well time hearing all
these other people. First of all, I think the economy
is in good shape. I understand the high cost, but
graduates need to realize that back in nineteen seventy nine,
inflation was over fifteen percent. Gas went from thirty cents
(38:55):
to a buck twenty in no time. Things were tough tougher.
So my key points is there's so many ways to go,
but I disagree with the flat tax. A progressive tax
needs to be put in place. The rich half the money,
you know, go where the money is. I also think
that there needs to be a regulation on excess profits
(39:15):
and corporate corporate couging. And lastly, though there's many more issues.
I've talked to several people who are in the thirties
and forties, and yeah, housing is a big, big issue.
But housing over the last fifty years has gone from
three hundred square foot per person to nine hundred square
(39:39):
foot per person. Families are smaller.
Speaker 7 (39:42):
Houses are bigger.
Speaker 16 (39:43):
We have to incentivize builders and local zoning to reduce
the size of houses and make it more affordable. People
can start, yeah, they can add on when they need to,
but you know, somebody trying to buy their first house
twenty five hundred square feet and it's four hundred fifty dollars.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
That's crazy, Okay, David, thank you very much.
Speaker 9 (40:03):
Robin Howiver, Jeremy, may I share a recollection because you
shared that McCain audio. Do you remember the feeling? I mean, Jeremy,
I think you were a marketplace back then. I forget,
but the feeling of free fall and sixty minutes was
covering all sorts of homeowners who were just mailing the
keys back to the bank. You had all these excerpts
that were cored out. There were some places in Arizona
outside of Tucson where bobcats and coyotes were taking over homes. Literally,
(40:27):
they're ripping out copper pipes. Wall Street had these toxic
assets on their book that was just fifteen years ago.
And people today would never believe you if you tell
a twenty something that you know you could not give
away homes back then. There's always inevitably a cyclicality to this.
People age out, people die out, they can't live on
the second floor. You know, younger families take hold. I mean,
(40:49):
cyclicality is cyclicality, and yes, we are supply constrained from
the time being, but things can and do fall apart.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
By the way, I stand corrected. I did say that
the undergraduate tuition at the University of Illinois was thirty
thousand in state, it's thirty three thousand. For the out
of state, it's about sixteen thousand.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Did you get an angry tex.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It's still a lot.
Speaker 18 (41:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I just I thought to myself, is that really right?
And I looked it up. Okay, let's get to another
caller here and Eric, who is in Boise, Idaho. Eric,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 21 (41:24):
Yeah, thanks for taking my call. I am interested in
a carbon fee and dividend, also known as carbon tax.
Speaker 22 (41:32):
But this is a.
Speaker 21 (41:34):
Would be a brave move that would tax polluters, return
the money to taxpayers immediately, and would also incorporate a
carbon tariff on imports. And I think this would supercharge
America's economy transition towards green tech, clean energy and make
(41:57):
America a leader in the field.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
And are you hearing that from either of the candidates, Eric, No, Unfortunately.
Speaker 21 (42:05):
I think I think this is even a non partisan
supported proposal. Most economists think that it's the best way
to transition and the long term will be the best
way to move the economy. I think I think there's
there's not the bravery of our current politicians to stand
(42:25):
up and actually put it out there. And I think
it's waiting for a popular rise.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Okay, Eric, thank you very much, a carbon tax. And
let me go to Diana, who's in Denver, Colorado. Diana,
welcome to the middle. What do you think the next
president should do?
Speaker 22 (42:42):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I can hear you.
Speaker 22 (42:43):
I think I think the president should establish a national
infrastructure bank, as Amald sander Hammill can get in the
days of the country becoming independent and is magmin Alanar
Roosevelt used as the reaching our instruction finance thing to
help us get out of the recession and e're up
(43:06):
for fighting World War two. There's a proposal currently before Congress,
in a bill four five to two to establish such
a public bank, which would not which would get money
by not getting it off the budget. It would require
no budget financing, and would be independent, and would The
(43:32):
infrastructure in this country is so far behind the rest
of the world, the rest of the developed world, that.
Speaker 15 (43:39):
We are losing.
Speaker 22 (43:41):
Productivity every day because we can't transport things quickly and
so forth. And if you look at the National Infrastructure
Bank Coalition website, there's details in it that are make
a lot of sense to me.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Okay, well, thank you very much for that, Diana appreciate it.
And Julie Neman a national Infrastructure Bank. Of course, the
Biden administration did pass this big infrastructure bill, which is
still you know, it's going to take many years for
that money to be spent on the infrastructure there. But
what about that?
Speaker 10 (44:15):
Well, and for presidents earlier all tried to do the
same thing, even Trump did too, but Congress Duggets Eels
did so. Now we're underway and the process is continuing on.
But this is a whole nation of buy now, pay later,
has been for everything, and we're going to continue to
do that. When you have something as a discipline, as
an infrastructure bank, it's an institution, and you start reserving
(44:37):
for it, and people stop yamering about it. You do
it whether they like it or not. That takes care
of that buy now, pay later.
Speaker 19 (44:43):
Problem.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
But Robert Farza, Diana does bring up a good point,
which is that without the infrastructure investments, the economy has
slowed down. If we didn't have the railroads that we
have you.
Speaker 9 (44:54):
By the way you cover Passager, I love anyone, and
I thought of you. The other week, Amtrak was trumpeting
a new Miami to Chicago route and I'm thinking to myself,
nobody asked for this. I mean, everybody's asking for Northeast quarridor.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
For it because it would take like thirty six hours on.
Speaker 9 (45:11):
Take thirty six hours and like seven hundred dollars. And
it's not a Golden Age of travel type thing. Literally,
no one is asking for it. And you know, we've
had Pete Boudage edge on the show and others, and
we ask him, why must these stations look like they're
out of nineteen seventy two East Germany? Because you know,
it's it's put together to a really Balkanized political consensus.
(45:31):
You're never gonna let the Northeast quarridor just be the
Northeast quarridor I mean Superstorm Sandy was in twenty twelve. Right,
that tunnel problem is still problematic, It still has damage.
They still haven't fixed the problems. I was in Manhattan.
The entire west side of Manhattan has developed, I mean
unbelievable development west of Penn Station. Penn Station is still
a catastrophe. And I'm just talking about Manhattan. I mean,
(45:54):
think about La think about the issues with Tampa, think
about infrastructure preparedness in the Virginia co and climate change
and sea level rise. I mean, these are big honking issues,
and they tend to be kind of left to the
states to kind of deal with on an ad hoc basis.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Don't come for my assela line man, Yeah, northeast bangs.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Let's sneak one more call in here. Dana is in
Rock Island, Illinois. Does that have to be brief, Dana?
But go ahead?
Speaker 16 (46:23):
Hey?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 23 (46:25):
My big concern is the housing market, and the housing
market is sick. It got sick in two thousand and eight.
Prior to two thousand and eight, there were about two
thousand housing starts filed every year in this country by builders.
At two thousand and eight, it dropped to under five hundred,
and it stayed five hundred, four hundred, four hundred, six
(46:47):
hundred for the next five or six years. And these
are permits for new houses.
Speaker 15 (46:53):
Right it starts, and that from that point on it
started to climb, and I think this year we're about
maybe maybe fifteen hundred. But my point is the building
industry really got sick in two thousand and eight. Small
builders went out of business, big builders got cut down,
and the support trains that were around those.
Speaker 23 (47:15):
Areas, those guys drifted off to other things.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
So we have a shortage, shortage of housing, shortage of housing. Yeah,
and I want to thank you very much for that call, data,
Julie Neman. That is not the first call that we've
heard about housings. And I just briefly, I mean, is
that surprising to you that that's the issue many people
are bringing up.
Speaker 10 (47:35):
No, because it directly I packs everything. The rents are
going up as a result of this, and any kind
of housing cost, your housing, regardless of what it is,
those are the biggest costs that you're facing right now.
Food is actually coming down, rents are not anything. So
that's the issue and why they're worried about it. Unfortunately,
it has no early resolution to it.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Before we let you go, I have a quiz for
both of you, and here it is which state right
now has the lowest average gas price? And the hint
is it is a swing state, Georgia. Julie, your guests, Pennsylvania.
It's Georgia. Good job, Robin, You're welcome back. Actually you're
(48:18):
both welcome back, Julie Nave and Financial landas with Smith Morren,
Company and business journalists and host of Full Disclosure, Robin Farzad.
Wonderful to have you both on.
Speaker 9 (48:26):
Thank you so much, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
And by the way, this Sunday, The Middle has a
live cross border election special Canadian and American callers from
across the continent answering the question what's at stake for
you in this election? You can tune in on many
stations for America votes a cross border conversation this Sunday.
If you want to be on the show, go to
CBC dot c slash air Check and next week I
(48:49):
will be at KNPR in Las Vegas asking you whether
or not you trust the polls. Are you freaking out
about them? Do you think they're right? Tlerow?
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Can they reach us all in at eight four four
four Middle that's eight four four four six four three
three five three, or you can reach out at Listen
to the Middle dot com, where you can also sign
up for our free weekly newsletter.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
The Middle is brought to you by Longnok Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois and produced by
Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, Sam Burmas, Dawes, and John Barth.
Our intern is Anikadeshler. Our technical director is Jason Croft.
Thanks to our podcast audience and the more than four
hundred and twenty public radio stations that are making it
possible for people across the country to listen to the Middle,
(49:29):
I'm Jeremy Hobson and I will talk to you on Sunday,
Support for the Middle comes from the Tiwani Foundation, making
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More information on how you can support the middle at
Listen to the Middle dot com. Welcome to the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver.
(00:23):
I have an idea instead of talking about the economy
this hour, I was thinking, let's just listen to my
Spotify playlist.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh cool, the whole hour.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm with it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Let's get it man, ok I'm next.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah, because this actually happened this week. Take a look.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
So play YMCA, go ahead, Let's go nice.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
And loud, Nice and loud, Nice and loud.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You know what I think of Donald Tump I think
of the village view.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, So we're not going to do that. We are
going to talk this hour about the issue that is
usually the most important issue to most voters. That would
be the economy. What do you want the next president
to do about it? We'll get to your calls in
a moment. At eight four four four middle. Well that's
eight four four four six four three three five three.
But first, last week we asked you what you want
done on another big issue, immigration and deportation. We got
(01:09):
a lot of great calls. Here's some that came in
after the show.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
My name is Beth Ann. I'm from Denver, Colorado. I
think immigration is an important I think we need a
better vetting system to keep criminals out, but I think
that the next president should look into making sure that
people can get here legally because our economy is so
based on foreign help.
Speaker 6 (01:32):
Hi, this is Elizabeth and I'm calling from the Cincinnati region.
I want to see controlled immigration. So immigration is a
great thing for this country when it's in line with
what helps the country grow.
Speaker 7 (01:43):
Hi.
Speaker 8 (01:43):
My name is Steve and I'm calling from Anabraam, Michigan.
I believe in a secure border, as I think most
Americans do. So let's naturalize these folks. Let's let them
pay their taxes because they're already here and it just
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in, and you can
hear that entire Ppace episode on our podcast in partnership
with iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app or wherever you
listen to podcasts. So out of our topic this hour,
what do you want the next president to do about
the economy? Vice President Kamala Harris has floated numerous tax
credits for working families and tax increases for corporations and
(02:18):
high earners. Former President Trump, on the other hand, has
talked about cutting taxes and putting tariffs on all foreign endpoints.
When it comes to the economy right now, a lot
of the indicators look good. Inflation down, consumer spending up,
the unemployment rate low around four point one percent, but
food prices are up about twenty five percent since the
(02:38):
COVID pandemic, and recent data from the Pew Research Center
finds fewer than a quarter of Americans currently rate the
country's economy as excellent or good. So what do you
want the next president to do about the economy? Tolliver,
what is our number?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's eight four four four Middle that's eight four four
four six four three three five three, or you can
write to us to listen to the Middle dot com.
We already have so many responses, so join them.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And the calls are coming in as well. Let's meet
our panel from Saint Louis Julie Neeman, financial analyst with
Smith Moore and Company. Julie, great to have you back,
Thanks Jeremy. And business journalist Robin Farzad, host of Full
Disclosures with Us from Richmond, Virginia. Robin, welcome to you.
Speaker 9 (03:18):
Thank you, Jeremy.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
And before we get to the phones, let me just
talk to each of you. Julie. This is from a
recent CNN article. It says, quote, the job market is booming,
Inflation has come back down to earth. Americans are spending
like crazy whatever. Voters don't care. They still think the
economy is trash. Why is that.
Speaker 9 (03:38):
This out of.
Speaker 10 (03:39):
Touch for the out reality has been going on for
three years and boys, some of the economists we read
been with them earlier that we're in a recession. We're
going into a recession. It's the end of Western civilization
as we know it. I think this sense of impending
doom is just a result of twenty twenty. But the
reality is we have been recovering very nicely. We're continuing
on it and right now there's no evidence of any
(04:00):
recession coming. So you have emotion and you have feelings
ahead of facts, and that's the big problem. Nobody's connecting
with the facts. It's feelings that they have.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
But Robin farzaid, you do have higher prices, as we said,
does how you view the economy just depend on your
own personal circumstances.
Speaker 9 (04:21):
I don't think you're going to have the White House
run victory laps around this stock market or record housing prices,
because there's so many people locked out of both. It's
considered a first world privilege. But I really think it
goes back to inflation. As we know. You know, I
would say the majority of Americans had not experienced capital
eye inflation. It's something that really visited us in the
(04:41):
early eighties that the Paul Vulker fed had to try
to arrest. And so there are all these misconceptions out
there that XYZ cost four dollars at the grocery store,
at the restaurant in twenty nineteen. Why is it now,
you know, five dollars and seventy five cents. Why isn't
it back to four dollars If we've broken the back
of inflation. That's not the way inflation works. And so
there's a lot of anger out there. Even if the
(05:03):
economy is creating jobs, it's so much cold comfort if
you're still feeling the sticker shock at restaurants, hospitality, fomo,
car insurance. I mean, Jeremy, you've gone through all the
various things that have gone up kind of parabolically.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well, Julie, what do you think would satisfy Americans on
the economy right now? What would make them feel good
about it? Given that there are these many indicators I mean,
short of I guess prices coming down by twenty five percent,
although that might not be a good thing. If you
have prices dropping that quickly, that would be deflation.
Speaker 10 (05:33):
Right What we have right now is inflation definitely getting slower,
but its prices are still going up and people are
still digesting the higher prices. To begin with, they've got
good wages now, good job, solid ability to buy, but
those wages cannot possibly keep up with rates of inflation.
And two key areas where everybody feels it food housing.
(05:54):
Those are the two things that are still not being
under control with inflation.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
One more thing, let's get to the phones, Robin Farzad,
how much power does the president have to affect the economy,
Because I think back like to two thousand and eight,
right before the election. If the president had all the
power then George W. Bush would never have allowed a
financial crisis to occur right before the election.
Speaker 9 (06:16):
No, it's in the hands of the Fed. There were
some extraordinary powers during the pandemic, obviously with fiscal stimulus,
and if you remember, Donald Trump wanted his signature big
lely on those checks and that was a part of,
you know, the the circumstances that led to inflation. But
as we know, it's the Federal Reserve. Maybe they waited
too long to hike. Maybe they'll left too much stimulus
out there. Maybe just maybe there was way too much
(06:38):
PPP to go around and people got to double dip
and triple dip and the economy took way too much
stimulus and we snapped out of it. I don't think
it's like, you know, the late Hugo Shaves of Venezuela
has a call in show. I think it was called
Hello Comandante or something, and people would complain like I
can't get cement anywhere, and you could go and see
it on YouTube. But he's like, send this man a
(06:58):
donkey in five sacks. You know, that's not the way
this country works.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's well, that's what Tolliver does sometimes with our callers. Yeah,
let's get to the phones and Gregory, who is calling
from Lakeland, Florida. Gregory, welcome to the middle What do
you think about the economy? What do you want the
next president to do about it?
Speaker 7 (07:17):
Hey, thank you for having me and thank you for
having this conversation. What do I think about economy? I'm
a business owner. I work here in the home improvement
UH industry. If the economy is doing bad, I don't
think people really actually know it. People say that people
still buying stuff, people still getting this fix, people still
getting that fixed. I want new child here new So
they say that it's the economy is bad, but people
(07:41):
still spending money like crazy. And I think the biggest
thing where people actually talk about this inflation. I think
the biggest problem is the Republicans have a great megaphone
with Fox News, so they put this information out and
Democrats megaphone is not really that good at all, and
nobody really listens to that megaphone. I actually did, I
have a household of man. I actually did my numbers
(08:02):
to see actually how much more money I'm actually spending
since the place is at the highest point of inflation,
and it's basically I get this. I get to I
have to buy what two less tendency bottles a month
every two weeks. I can't go out and buy a
Hennessy bottle. It's not really you know. I found about
thirty dollars thirty dollars there own food, and that's what
(08:22):
a seven person household. So like people talk about inflations,
but we actually add up how much you're actually sending.
It's not really that much. Now, what really is killing
people is housing. Housing is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Just briefly, Gregory, what would you like the next president
to do when it comes to housing? Do you have
an idea of what you'd like them to do?
Speaker 7 (08:42):
Oh, well, I'm out here in Florida, so living around
the ten says, actually could have did something for me
better than what the president could have did. He could
have put it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
In rent control, rent control again.
Speaker 7 (08:52):
With rent control, that would actually kept housing down and
that would have actually made a big difference in people life.
It's more housing that's actually killing people. Bore then, actually
groceries and food because thirty forty dollars okay up there
in that extra but we've been in about two times
as much for renally as he was four or five
years ago. That's that's a big difference. That's a big kid.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Okay, we've got it. We've got it. Thank you very
much for that. On NeXT's right exactly. You can come
back anytime. But Julie Neman the interesting there. Gregory says
he's spending more than ever and that housing is still
an issue though.
Speaker 10 (09:28):
Yeah, the key thing is the housing problem is a
long term problem. We've had a housing shortage for the
last fifteen years and it's going to take a good
ten years to get this corrected. There has been no
funding since the collapse of the global financial system, and
it was that in two thousand and eight and nine.
There has been no significant lending on massive scales to
(09:50):
housing development, housing sections. You know new Town's going up.
None of that is happening.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Massive development, and that's what we need, you think more
than that's what we need to.
Speaker 10 (09:59):
Have happened and has to have funding for it. Now,
where are you going to get that funding? Well, the
banks are absolutely paranoid. They brought us into the mess
of two thousand and eight nine and now they're afraid
to do anything. They have good cause for that, because
they tend to be terrible in terms of analyzing risk.
So I think the government has to step in here
with some kind of subsidy program or at least loan guarantees,
(10:19):
a new Fany May, a new Freddie Mac whatever it is,
to help with the development of it, because this is
going to be a long term problem.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Robin, what do you think about what Gregory was saying there?
It is an interesting point that he thinks people are
spending more than ever before, even if they complain about it.
And he brought up Fox News and sort of the
megaphone of people saying the economy is bad in the media.
Speaker 9 (10:40):
Yeah, you try to find a landscaper or a stonecutter,
or a mason or anybody who deals with heating, HVAC people,
heat pump people. Housing is still on fire. And I
don't understand, Julie Tolliver. Maybe somebody can explain it too
much America, You know, are we supposed to be stimulating
cutting interest rates and mortgage rates into this? Is that
targeting the air I mean to those who are to
(11:01):
have lessons and the have nots when housing is already
on fire. I don't see how you get older people
who've been holding onto housing with the renaissance of remote
living and work from home to unleash some of that
inventory to hungrier, younger families. I don't see targeted policy
out there.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Tolliver. The line, it's the economy stupid, which sort of
works for the show that we're doing right now, came
from an advisor to former President Bill Clinton, James Carville.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, and listen here to a key moment from the
nineteen ninety two presidential debate, when then Arkansas Governor Bill
Clinton talks about having his finger on the pulse of
the state's economy.
Speaker 11 (11:37):
I've been governor of a small state for twelve years.
I'll tell you it's affected me. Every year Congress and
the President's signed laws that make us do more things,
it gives us less money to do it with. I
see people in my state, middle class people. Their taxes
have gone up in Washington and their services have gone down,
(11:57):
while the wealthy have gotten tax cuts. I have seen
what's happened in this last four years. When in my state,
when people lose their jobs, there's a good.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Chance I'll know them by their names. I don't know
if that's really true. I find that kind of hard
to believe, but it's still a big state even you know, in.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The nineties Man of the nineties.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, it was, but I will say that the unemployment
rate at that time was seven point one percent when
he said that, and now it's four point one percent.
We'll be right back with more of your calls on
the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If
you're just tuning, in the Middle is a national call
in show. We're focused on elevating voices from the middle geographically, politically,
(12:35):
and philosophically, or maybe you just want to meet in
the middle. This hour, we're asking you, what do you
want the next president to do about the economy? Tolliver,
what is the number to call in?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media. I'm checking them all.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
And I'm joined by business journalist Robin Farzad and financial
analyst Julie Nieman, and the phone lines are lighting up.
So let's go to Phil and Ate seen Wisconsin. Phil,
what do you want the next president to do about
the economy?
Speaker 12 (13:06):
Well, I would let this is Phil Schultz and the
scene I would like to see the very rich golden fleece,
golden fleece to pay down to pay off the national debt.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
That's what you'd like to say, Tax the rich and
pay off the debt.
Speaker 12 (13:32):
Yeah, no, the golden give them the golden fleece. Give
them the golden fleece, and so we can get money
to pay down the national debt.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Okay, Julie neven the golden fleece.
Speaker 10 (13:53):
That's a rage against the very rich who are paying
almost nothing in terms of taxes. Exxon has tax rate
of seven percent. Some of the richest people in the
United States quote owe money but haven't paid it in
centuries because they have the money to keep appealing and
dodging all around with it. We want to see fairness
in the tax just because the rest of us are
paying our taxes.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So what do you do?
Speaker 10 (14:14):
There is one simple solution that has been around for years.
Forbes was the first one to come out with it,
and that is a flat tax, no deductions. Everybody pay
fifteen percent. The only people would have some exemptions from
that rate would be the poor, but everybody else, including corporations,
pays fifteen percent with no deductions. It's the deductions that
(14:38):
give you all the tax dodging and those are all
the goodies that congressmen hand out well.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
And by the way, the presidential candidates are proposing more
deductions that Kamala Harris wants, a new deduction for starting
a business, a new deduction for buying a home, and
things like that. Let's get to another call. Abby is
in Chicago. Abby, what do you think the next p
resident should do about the economy?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
I think, hey, thanks for having me on the call,
and it's a great panel to have to discuss about
the you know, the economy stupid. But uh, in terms
of the next president, the policy should be in line
with trying to obviously get their national debt down. And
I know the national debt doesn't work in similar lines
to a person debt, but at the same time, being
(15:24):
physically responsible always, you know, is better for the country. Also,
to be honest, you know, it's not from a from
talking point of other people on the on the calls today,
it's more the corporations being greedy and you know, I
would go to the extent of saying it's the greedy
(15:45):
stupid and it's not necessarily the economy where co operations
and the greed that they display.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
But so so I'll be just just to drill down
on something you said there. So are you more interested
as a voter in the debt, the national debt coming
down versus more, let's say, goodies for you or for
other people in this country, but more more money coming
to people.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
So there's two ways of doing that.
Speaker 13 (16:13):
So there is one ways to get goodies, but at
the same time there's a cost benefit ratio analysis, so
that as a benefit of getting a goody.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I don't think it should be done. There should be
find fine understanding of policy to take steps towards giving
goodies while at the same time not necessarily putting at
risk the debt in that sense.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Okay, I'll be thank you very much. You know, it's interesting,
Robin Farzad that these last two colors have brought up
the debt.
Speaker 9 (16:45):
Yeah, it sounds almost you know, Uh, drink your milk,
stay in school, be a good kid. Eat who's out there,
you know, who's out there carrying the torch for against
fiscal profligacy? I mean, clearly not. It's it's not the
Maga GOP. I mean, you know, the kind of Rockefeller
Republicans the Chamber of Commerce, class and everything. That's all like,
(17:06):
you know, you talk about Julie, you talk about Steve Force.
I mean that's totally forgotten. That's so nineteen ninety six vintage.
And especially over the past five years, we've been putting
so much on the tab. But I think we've not
been punished for that profligacy. It's not like borrowing costs
of sword. The United States has an exceptionalism where you know,
things go wrong and people pile into our debt, and
(17:27):
our borrowing costs are still relatively low. I mean, if
they were runaway and Congress had to get its act
together and really cut a lot of that fat out,
that'd be one thing. And if you saw real crowding
out of private investment. But you have thriving capital markets
right now. You have people kind of saying, what meat
worry even though if you see it on a chart,
the amount of debt increase, you know, since the last recession,
(17:49):
since the last huge slowdown is staggering.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Ben is joining us from Saint Petersburg, Florida, just after Milton. Ben,
what do you think, what's what's what does it look
like from your end in terms of the economy.
Speaker 14 (18:04):
Hi, Jeremy, thank you so much taking my call. I'm
on a It's like a micros spectrum of of what
you guys have been talking about. We just had Hurricane
Milton come through and it was this is the first
I've lived in Florida for seven years, and this is
the storm. This storm came through like nothing else. Luckily, myself,
(18:27):
my girlfriend, and my dog evacuated, but our roof was
torn off and I can't live in my home. But
more anything that I wanted to do, I wanted to
come back home last Friday and go back and support
my local businesses. I have a bakery two blocks from
my house that I want to go back, and I
wanted to buy a loaf of bread, and it just
(18:48):
in my thoughts. There's so many local small businesses in
Saint Petersburg. You know, everyone says Tampa. Tampa is a
big place. Saint Petersburg. We're on the other side of
the Bay and we're a community of neighborhoods and there
are so many small businesses that they're they're posting on
(19:09):
Instagram and Facebook and TikTok. If you have it that
that they can't survive past this. If no one comes back.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
So but are you getting as a small business though,
Are you getting the help that you need right now
from FEMA or do you feel like just in the
long term it's going to be a bigger issue.
Speaker 14 (19:32):
I can't move in my house until sometime next year probably,
And they're small businesses. They've gutted everything, and they're no,
I I applied, I can't, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
So so obviously, Ben, Ben, you're you're dealing with an
immediate problem. Just to bring us back on topic for
this program, is there something bigger about what you would
want the president to do economically right now? Or is
it just about helping Saint Peter's the places that were
hit by the hurricanes.
Speaker 14 (20:03):
Wasn't the SBA unfunded as of two days ago? That
was announced right? The Small Business Assistants they said they
ran out of money.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Julie Neiman, you're you're nodding there.
Speaker 10 (20:16):
Yes, they did. They're asking for a special grant from
Congress to refund them to get more in their low
likelihood they will right they're depleted.
Speaker 14 (20:24):
And and our congress people, Jeremy, our congress people aren't
going to be back in office for a month. Next
session of Congress doesn't start until the sixteenth, and I
and and and we have rond de Santis, I call
them Ronnie d but and you laugh.
Speaker 7 (20:46):
I laugh.
Speaker 14 (20:47):
And I love the state of Florida. This is such
a beautiful, beautiful state, and especially the Tampa Bay area.
I mean, if anyone, if any anyone in the country,
if you're listening right now, please in a couple of months,
come back down Fort Tampa Bay to Fort Saint Petersburg.
Speaker 15 (21:05):
It's such a beautiful.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
We okay, Ben, we've got we've got We've got it.
And thank you for that commercial for Florida. And you
know it'll be very nice in the next few months.
But they thank you very much for that call. You know,
I do want to ask you, Robin Farzad, about that
because there are people, there are so many big issues
that have big you know, events that happen like the hurricanes,
that have huge economic impacts. And while we sort of
(21:29):
you hear Ben talking about that, you think, oh, this
is a specific problem to people who are living in
this place. So many places have had climate disasters over
the last year or natural disasters and are in the
same situation where they need the government to step in
at moments like that with money.
Speaker 9 (21:45):
Yeah, but also think about you know, I grew up
in Miami. I'm to think about the idiosyncratic problem AFT
in the wake of the Surfside condo collapse, where all
of these older people right now stuck with special assessments.
And I don't want to be very provincial and parochial
about Florida. They're experiencing kind of a huge capital call
right now. Many financial crisis older Americans, people in older
(22:06):
condos who either have to sell it at a huge
markdown or pay up for a big special assessment in
order to make code. This economy's success is not really
visiting them. If you're stuck with you know, you've seen
these articles on the Wall Street Journal. It's happening in Tampa,
it's happening in Fort Laerdale in Miami. You're stuck with
one hundred and fifty thousand dollars assessment. You thought that
(22:26):
would be money that you'd have for retirement. You have
to have a lot of coordination with I don't know
whatever it is these people are essentially looking for a bailout.
Who's at fault? Was it the condo boards? Was it
climate preparedness? I mean, you know, we were kind of
punting on this for decades, and then this is a
lot specific to kind of coastal America and a lot
(22:47):
of people on the inside, and you cover the middle,
I mean may not experience things like this. So I
mean when I talked to my mom, when I talked
to my friends and their friends' parents in Florida, these
are the things that are front and center right now.
Not necessarily, you know, one hundred thousand jobs created last
month or the month before, Tolliver.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Some notes coming in on Listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Absolutely, Tom and Detroit gets straight to the point. He says,
raise taxes on everyone making over three hundred thousand a year,
Jim and Champagne. Jeremy, I think he's right over your shoulder, right,
he says, I would like I'd like to tackle the
issue of minimum wage as an unfunded mandate. I believe
in a minimum wage. More than that, I consider the
minimum wage to be important enough to be backed by
the full government. Jeremy, I'll tell you the candidate that
(23:28):
will get my vote is the one that brings me
a giant publisher's clearinghouse check.
Speaker 9 (23:33):
I'm voting for them all right.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
That's I think a lot of people probably feel that way.
Maria is with us from Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Maria,
welcome to the middle.
Speaker 16 (23:42):
Go ahead, thank you.
Speaker 17 (23:46):
I would like the next president to raise the minimum
wage and to protect the middle class, and to continue
investing in our infrastructure and in train people for the
jobs of the future. I am in education and I
(24:08):
can't tell you how much we need jobs job training,
so that is a huge thing in North Carolina. I
also think a voting rights act that makes elections fair
would help our economy because our state is carrymindered and
(24:31):
has a legislature that does not represent the people. It's
legislates against the interests of the working class. And if
we could vote in real three elections in North Carolina,
we could elect true representatives that would help our states
(24:54):
make much more progress instead of having these legislatures that
are engaging in cultural war and a creating divisions. So
in North Carolina, we need an active president who will
solve some of the big problems.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Maria, thank you very much. Julie Neeman, Maria brings up
for the first time in this hour, training people for
the jobs of the future. Are you hearing that from
the presidential candidates, I haven't heard very much talk about
training for the jobs of the future or artificial intelligence
and what to do about jobs that are going to
go away Because of that.
Speaker 10 (25:29):
Probably the biggest answer is that there's no answer for that.
You know, that is really something that's pie in the
sky at this point. What are the jobs of the future?
Figuring it out? That's what those futurists all come up with.
What's going to get you voted in right now is
what are you going to do for me right now?
Which this lady is saying is that we need better education. Absolutely,
(25:49):
do we need job or training. Every time an industry
is shut down, you have to retrain. We've had so
many companies go away here in Saint Louis, airlines go down.
Everybody had to retrain and they did, but it was painful.
It's just the process you have to go through, is retraining.
Speaker 7 (26:05):
Hmmm.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Let's go to Max Susan Wellington, Colorado. Max, what do
you think the next president should do about the economy?
Speaker 15 (26:13):
Boy, there's no shortage. I apologize if I'm getting the
name incorrect, but is there a guest name Julian Julie?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, Julie.
Speaker 15 (26:23):
Sorry, I want Julie to be president.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Same Yeah, well okay, but okay.
Speaker 15 (26:32):
I'd like to if you'd indulge me. I'd like to
start with a quick joke.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Knock knock, who's there there?
Speaker 15 (26:39):
Economist?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, economists too.
Speaker 15 (26:43):
Economists the last down turn. But I'll try to do
better next time. Anyway, it goes without saying that you my.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Dad joke repertoire, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Max, I'm gonna let
you go because I want to just find out what
people think we should have the next president do about
the economy. But thank you for those jokes, and let's
just get another call in here. Yolanda in Kansas City
is with us. Yolanda, what do you want the next
president to do about the economy?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Well, I would like them to have some vision for
a future that is built on growth and supporting people's
needs and not on destruction. We are spending, just in
one country alone, eighteen billion dollars on the Israeli military.
We are now short on FEMA funding and it needs
you know, we need to stop funding militarism. We need
(27:31):
to stop funding construction. We need to basically fund healthcare,
We need to fund education. We need to fund retraining.
Industries that are basically benefiting from all alone need to
be retrained so that they basically can do things that
are good for people. And it can be done, but
(27:52):
you have to have the vision to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Let me just briefly ask you. Let me just briefly
ask you, how would you rate the economy right now?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
How would I rate the economy? Well, as far as
I would say that, we have a lot of a
long way to go. Okay, we do not take care
of people's needs. There's no funding for child care for
people who make minimum wage, there's no you know, education
needs better funding. Healthcare I'm a physician. Healthcare is horrible.
Speaker 12 (28:23):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
People say, oh, you have safety and at clinics, Yeah,
we have safety and clinics fund just closed in Kansas City, Kansas,
where I practice. Three thousand people have been with no insurance,
are left sort of stumbling trying to figure out how
they're going to get their medications in there and their
healthcare because they don't have And then the insurance industry
that they created it is totally horrible. I think they
need to be taken out of the mix totally, to
be honest, because why do you think people like me
(28:46):
who I'm now Medicare eligible get eighteen calls a day
during open enrollment so that I joined. They're a damage
plan to this plant because they are making billions from US, okay,
and that money should be going into providing healthcare and
we providing a safety net for people that are having
to retrain. They're retraining.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Jilanda, thank you very much for that stuff they do.
They've got a lot to say tonight, Robin Farzad, though
your your thoughts there, I mean, she does bring up
an interesting point which we do here when we do
shows like this, that people don't want the US spending
money on wars, way too much money on defense.
Speaker 9 (29:22):
Some people think, yeah, I mean, I'll say in a
mercenary sense that money is overwhelmingly going to you know,
US arms makers who've been flush, who've been in clover
because of that, and there's a whole military industrial complex
whose outlays are really not questioned, whether you're talking Ukraine
or various things going to the Middle East or other allies.
The caller does make a really important part. There's a
(29:43):
there's a bit of a financial crisis going on with
rural health care providers, Jeremy, and we will hospitals going
out of business, er units OBG y ns and there's
a real disparity, and.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
We'll get to that. But Taliver, I have to say,
the economy is such a consequential issue that it can
actually bring entire presidential care campaigns to a halt.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
That's right in the wake of the two thousand and
eight financial crisis, Republican Senator John McCain's that spitted his
campaign to focus on passing legislation to repair the nation's
fractured economy, all with less than a month to election day.
Speaker 18 (30:12):
Tomorrow morning, I'll suspend my campaign and return to Washington
after speaking at the Clinton Global Initiative. I've spoken to
Senator Obama and informed him of my decision, and I've
asked him to join me.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I'm calling on the.
Speaker 18 (30:28):
President to convene a leadership meeting from both houses of Congress,
including Center Obama and myself. It's time for both parties
to come together to solve this problem.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, I remember then Senator Obama said I can do
two things at once. I can campaign and legislat.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Right, right, and then and then he won. We'll be
right back with you more of your calls coming up
on the Middle. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
This hour, we're asking you what do you want the
next president to do about the economy? You can call
us at eight four four for Middle. That's eight four
four four six four three three five three where you
can reach out and listen to the Middle dot com.
(31:08):
I'm joined by financial analyst Julie Neeman and business journalist
Robin Farzad. And while we have a break from knock
Knock jokes, Robin Farzad, let me just ask you. Donald
Trump has talked about a ten percent tariff on everything
across the board, and up to one thousand percent tariffs
on specific things. What kind of an effect would that have?
Speaker 9 (31:29):
You know, it was a great Wall Street journal piece
on the potential for tariffs to approach what we saw
in the Great Depression, and holly smoot, these things have
unintended consequences. You're you're sometimes playing with fire. I don't
know how it how it plays in the grand scheme
of things. How does it hit you back at Walmart
where you know, what would they say is Walmart is
one of the largest trading partners in the country. If
it was a country onto itself, who cries uncle first,
(31:52):
we China, Germany, the various other players you saw, it
had unintended consequences with with agriculture. It sure sounds great,
you know, stick it to the foreigners taking our jobs,
the foreign companies and the scheming globalists. But in practice
I think it ends up we end up paying for it.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Julie Nima and Kamala Harris has talked about tax credits
for childcare, for starting a small business, for first time
home buyers, raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Do
you think that if she were to win, that those
policies would actually happen, would be able to get through Congress?
Speaker 10 (32:30):
I doubt it, simply because in almost every single elections,
promises are made, promises are made, and usually nothing is
done about it. There'll be a token attempt to get
something through, and especially if you have a divide in Congress,
which looks increasingly probable, nothing gets through. And so we've
become appreciative when you have a locked situation. At least
(32:52):
no mischief can go through when it's locked, But you
would have to have completely one way or the other
all Republican, are all Democrat? Get through what your wish list.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Was, although in the last two presidential elections, we did
end up with a situation where the president and his
party had both Houses of Congress, at least in the beginning.
Let's go to Marcus, who is in Duluth, Minnesota. Marcus,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 19 (33:18):
Thank you, fortekting my call. We were talking about the economy,
and I think one thing that could be potentially very
helpful for many Americans is regulating interest rates, in particular
on things like student loans government student loans. I myself
am a teacher in a university, and in order to
(33:43):
get promotion, I had to get a terminal degree. So
I've gone back to school and have now acquired an
additional one hundred thousand dollars of student loan debt, and
the interest rate on my most recent government student loans
is three times higher than it was when I graduated.
With my master's I'll be paying student loans with Social
Security checks hopefully.
Speaker 15 (34:03):
Wow.
Speaker 19 (34:05):
So I think something that could certainly help many Americans
in my situation is just regulation that interest rates.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Let me ask Robin Farzad about that. Very good point. Marcus,
thank you very much, Robin Farzad, Is there a way
because the money does cost something, So if the cost
of you know, school is this high, is there a
way for the government to bring down the prices the
interest rates on these loans further than they already do.
Speaker 9 (34:33):
There are federally subsidized loans and grant systems, as you
know from the college and grad school process, but the
courts and Capitol Hill can very indeed thwart presidential fiat
as you saw with the Biden administration and trying to
wipe away you serious student loans. You know that that
was a ten thousand dollars idea or various other back
channels they tried to take for barons putting it off
(34:56):
during the pandemic. It's much easier said than done, and
you don't really it's not something that the executive branch
onto itself can do unilaterally. I will say, as you know, Jeremy,
that there's a big rethink right now about debt in general.
That if they're jobs that are available that you could
take with one or two year apprenticeships in lieu of college,
if you can go into trade school, if you can
(35:17):
learn kind of evy repair, get into solar and other things.
The payoff, the risk reward is just much better than
a four year liberal arts degree for the time being.
So that's really a diminishing return.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Oh I could jump in, Yeah, please, Julie.
Speaker 10 (35:31):
Nobody's entitled to go to Harvard or to Vanderbilt or
onto the big eastern colleges. If you choose to go
somewhere where you're going to get on two hundred thousand
dollars worth of debt to get a degree, you might
want to think about this. I do believe in public education,
and the significance of tuition in public universities is so
much different than that. You're not going to graduate with
(35:53):
a staggering amount of debt. Who ever thought that you
would have to be entitled to go to these elite universities.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I will say, though, Julie, I taught a class today
at the University of Illinois and I asked the students
how much they're paying. And the in state tuition is
like thirty thousand dollars now, even for the big state school.
So it's gone up a lot. I mean, it really
has gone up a lot. Let's go to Colby, who's
in Houston. Colby, Welcome to the middle. Go ahead.
Speaker 20 (36:24):
Hey, So when I tuned in, y'all were talking about
housing and food and it got me thinking, I live
in Texas and we have an abortion ban, and I
believe this is going to cause a ripple effect. It's
going to cause a huge increase, well not a huge,
but a significant increase in the demand for goods and
services and housing, and we might not be able to
(36:45):
keep up with it.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
You know, Explain what do you mean by that? How
did the how would the abortion ban cause a ripple
effect like that?
Speaker 20 (36:53):
Well, for one, on the on the micro level, someone
who can't afford to have a child is now in
a position where they have no choice. And on a
larger level, well, you're going to have an uptick in.
Speaker 7 (37:09):
Birth rates.
Speaker 20 (37:09):
And when you have people who aren't moving out of
their houses. You got empty nesters who've got five bedroom
houses and it's just them sitting there. You know, this
is going to cause an increase in demand and they're
wont And also in food and other services across the board,
school overcrowding things like this, and especially in Texas where
(37:30):
teachers and obg y ns are leaving the state.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Kolby Thank you very much. I'm glad you I'm glad
you brought that up, because Julie Neman, this is an
issue that I think is kind of still under the
radar in this election. This is going to be the
first presidential election since the Dobbs decision, and Kobe brings
up something that that there's an economic impact to what's
happened with abortion in this country in the last two years.
Speaker 10 (37:56):
The amount of outrage over this is pretty breathtaking. But
it's not just exactly with the elected officials. You know,
it goes much deeper than that, especially with the courts.
At this point, the only thing that's going to get
change anything is going to be at the at the election,
you know, at the at the ballot box. From an
economic standpoint, it's going to be an economic cost to
(38:17):
the people who are suffering from it, namely the women
who can't get proper medical care. How do you measure that, Well,
it's amounts hospitals can keep record.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Let's go to David, who's in Woodstock, Illinois. David, welcome
to the middle. What do you think the next president
should do?
Speaker 15 (38:33):
Hi?
Speaker 16 (38:35):
Yeah, Hi, thanks for the program. Yeah, there's so many
different approaches I've changed my thoughts well time hearing all
these other people. First of all, I think the economy
is in good shape. I understand the high cost, but
graduates need to realize that back in nineteen seventy nine,
inflation was over fifteen percent. Gas went from thirty cents
(38:55):
to a buck twenty in no time. Things were tough tougher.
So my key points is there's so many ways to go,
but I disagree with the flat tax. A progressive tax
needs to be put in place. The rich half the money,
you know, go where the money is. I also think
that there needs to be a regulation on excess profits
(39:15):
and corporate corporate couging. And lastly, though there's many more issues.
I've talked to several people who are in the thirties
and forties, and yeah, housing is a big, big issue.
But housing over the last fifty years has gone from
three hundred square foot per person to nine hundred square
(39:39):
foot per person. Families are smaller.
Speaker 7 (39:42):
Houses are bigger.
Speaker 16 (39:43):
We have to incentivize builders and local zoning to reduce
the size of houses and make it more affordable. People
can start, yeah, they can add on when they need to,
but you know, somebody trying to buy their first house
twenty five hundred square feet and it's four hundred fifty dollars.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
That's crazy, Okay, David, thank you very much.
Speaker 9 (40:03):
Robin Howiver, Jeremy, may I share a recollection because you
shared that McCain audio. Do you remember the feeling? I mean, Jeremy,
I think you were a marketplace back then. I forget,
but the feeling of free fall and sixty minutes was
covering all sorts of homeowners who were just mailing the
keys back to the bank. You had all these excerpts
that were cored out. There were some places in Arizona
outside of Tucson where bobcats and coyotes were taking over homes. Literally,
(40:27):
they're ripping out copper pipes. Wall Street had these toxic
assets on their book that was just fifteen years ago.
And people today would never believe you if you tell
a twenty something that you know you could not give
away homes back then. There's always inevitably a cyclicality to this.
People age out, people die out, they can't live on
the second floor. You know, younger families take hold. I mean,
(40:49):
cyclicality is cyclicality, and yes, we are supply constrained from
the time being, but things can and do fall apart.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
By the way, I stand corrected. I did say that
the undergraduate tuition at the University of Illinois was thirty
thousand in state, it's thirty three thousand. For the out
of state, it's about sixteen thousand.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Did you get an angry tex.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It's still a lot.
Speaker 18 (41:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I just I thought to myself, is that really right?
And I looked it up. Okay, let's get to another
caller here and Eric, who is in Boise, Idaho. Eric,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 21 (41:24):
Yeah, thanks for taking my call. I am interested in
a carbon fee and dividend, also known as carbon tax.
Speaker 22 (41:32):
But this is a.
Speaker 21 (41:34):
Would be a brave move that would tax polluters, return
the money to taxpayers immediately, and would also incorporate a
carbon tariff on imports. And I think this would supercharge
America's economy transition towards green tech, clean energy and make
(41:57):
America a leader in the field.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
And are you hearing that from either of the candidates, Eric, No, Unfortunately.
Speaker 21 (42:05):
I think I think this is even a non partisan
supported proposal. Most economists think that it's the best way
to transition and the long term will be the best
way to move the economy. I think I think there's
there's not the bravery of our current politicians to stand
(42:25):
up and actually put it out there. And I think
it's waiting for a popular rise.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Okay, Eric, thank you very much, a carbon tax. And
let me go to Diana, who's in Denver, Colorado. Diana,
welcome to the middle. What do you think the next
president should do?
Speaker 22 (42:42):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I can hear you.
Speaker 22 (42:43):
I think I think the president should establish a national
infrastructure bank, as Amald sander Hammill can get in the
days of the country becoming independent and is magmin Alanar
Roosevelt used as the reaching our instruction finance thing to
help us get out of the recession and e're up
(43:06):
for fighting World War two. There's a proposal currently before Congress,
in a bill four five to two to establish such
a public bank, which would not which would get money
by not getting it off the budget. It would require
no budget financing, and would be independent, and would The
(43:32):
infrastructure in this country is so far behind the rest
of the world, the rest of the developed world, that.
Speaker 15 (43:39):
We are losing.
Speaker 22 (43:41):
Productivity every day because we can't transport things quickly and
so forth. And if you look at the National Infrastructure
Bank Coalition website, there's details in it that are make
a lot of sense to me.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Okay, well, thank you very much for that, Diana appreciate it.
And Julie Neman a national Infrastructure Bank. Of course, the
Biden administration did pass this big infrastructure bill, which is
still you know, it's going to take many years for
that money to be spent on the infrastructure there. But
what about that?
Speaker 10 (44:15):
Well, and for presidents earlier all tried to do the
same thing, even Trump did too, but Congress Duggets Eels
did so. Now we're underway and the process is continuing on.
But this is a whole nation of buy now, pay later,
has been for everything, and we're going to continue to
do that. When you have something as a discipline, as
an infrastructure bank, it's an institution, and you start reserving
(44:37):
for it, and people stop yamering about it. You do
it whether they like it or not. That takes care
of that buy now, pay later.
Speaker 19 (44:43):
Problem.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
But Robert Farza, Diana does bring up a good point,
which is that without the infrastructure investments, the economy has
slowed down. If we didn't have the railroads that we
have you.
Speaker 9 (44:54):
By the way you cover Passager, I love anyone, and
I thought of you. The other week, Amtrak was trumpeting
a new Miami to Chicago route and I'm thinking to myself,
nobody asked for this. I mean, everybody's asking for Northeast quarridor.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
For it because it would take like thirty six hours on.
Speaker 9 (45:11):
Take thirty six hours and like seven hundred dollars. And
it's not a Golden Age of travel type thing. Literally,
no one is asking for it. And you know, we've
had Pete Boudage edge on the show and others, and
we ask him, why must these stations look like they're
out of nineteen seventy two East Germany? Because you know,
it's it's put together to a really Balkanized political consensus.
(45:31):
You're never gonna let the Northeast quarridor just be the
Northeast quarridor I mean Superstorm Sandy was in twenty twelve. Right,
that tunnel problem is still problematic, It still has damage.
They still haven't fixed the problems. I was in Manhattan.
The entire west side of Manhattan has developed, I mean
unbelievable development west of Penn Station. Penn Station is still
a catastrophe. And I'm just talking about Manhattan. I mean,
(45:54):
think about La think about the issues with Tampa, think
about infrastructure preparedness in the Virginia co and climate change
and sea level rise. I mean, these are big honking issues,
and they tend to be kind of left to the
states to kind of deal with on an ad hoc basis.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Don't come for my assela line man, Yeah, northeast bangs.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Let's sneak one more call in here. Dana is in
Rock Island, Illinois. Does that have to be brief, Dana?
But go ahead?
Speaker 16 (46:23):
Hey?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 23 (46:25):
My big concern is the housing market, and the housing
market is sick. It got sick in two thousand and eight.
Prior to two thousand and eight, there were about two
thousand housing starts filed every year in this country by builders.
At two thousand and eight, it dropped to under five hundred,
and it stayed five hundred, four hundred, four hundred, six
(46:47):
hundred for the next five or six years. And these
are permits for new houses.
Speaker 15 (46:53):
Right it starts, and that from that point on it
started to climb, and I think this year we're about
maybe maybe fifteen hundred. But my point is the building
industry really got sick in two thousand and eight. Small
builders went out of business, big builders got cut down,
and the support trains that were around those.
Speaker 23 (47:15):
Areas, those guys drifted off to other things.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
So we have a shortage, shortage of housing, shortage of housing. Yeah,
and I want to thank you very much for that call, data,
Julie Neman. That is not the first call that we've
heard about housings. And I just briefly, I mean, is
that surprising to you that that's the issue many people
are bringing up.
Speaker 10 (47:35):
No, because it directly I packs everything. The rents are
going up as a result of this, and any kind
of housing cost, your housing, regardless of what it is,
those are the biggest costs that you're facing right now.
Food is actually coming down, rents are not anything. So
that's the issue and why they're worried about it. Unfortunately,
it has no early resolution to it.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Before we let you go, I have a quiz for
both of you, and here it is which state right
now has the lowest average gas price? And the hint
is it is a swing state, Georgia. Julie, your guests, Pennsylvania.
It's Georgia. Good job, Robin, You're welcome back. Actually you're
(48:18):
both welcome back, Julie Nave and Financial landas with Smith Morren,
Company and business journalists and host of Full Disclosure, Robin Farzad.
Wonderful to have you both on.
Speaker 9 (48:26):
Thank you so much, my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
And by the way, this Sunday, The Middle has a
live cross border election special Canadian and American callers from
across the continent answering the question what's at stake for
you in this election? You can tune in on many
stations for America votes a cross border conversation this Sunday.
If you want to be on the show, go to
CBC dot c slash air Check and next week I
(48:49):
will be at KNPR in Las Vegas asking you whether
or not you trust the polls. Are you freaking out
about them? Do you think they're right? Tlerow?
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Can they reach us all in at eight four four
four Middle that's eight four four four six four three
three five three, or you can reach out at Listen
to the Middle dot com, where you can also sign
up for our free weekly newsletter.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
The Middle is brought to you by Longnok Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois and produced by
Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, Sam Burmas, Dawes, and John Barth.
Our intern is Anikadeshler. Our technical director is Jason Croft.
Thanks to our podcast audience and the more than four
hundred and twenty public radio stations that are making it
possible for people across the country to listen to the Middle,
(49:29):
I'm Jeremy Hobson and I will talk to you on Sunday,
Host
Jeremy Hobson
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