November 8, 2024 • 47 mins
On this episode of The Middle we're taking stock of the 2024 election results and asking what they mean for you? We're joined by CBS News Chief Washington Correspondent Major Garrett and Rose Scott, host of "Closer Look" in WABE in Atlanta. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus callers from around the country. #2024 #election #Trump #Harris
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Support for the Middle comes from the Tiwani Foundation, making
a sustained and measurable difference for organizations that focus on
enriching knowledge, improving health and wellness, and promoting scientific understanding.
More information on how you can support the Middle at
Listen to Them Middle dot com. Welcome to the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson, along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver.
(00:23):
It really is amazing that after literally years of build
up and all of the punditry and the polls and
the primaries and the commentary, that it only takes basically
a few hours for the entire country to speak.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Man, I was in bed early ten pm, tucked ins nuggets,
a budget rug wow.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, you know, the one thing about elections like this
is we do actually learn things about the country. And
one thing that we learned, of course, is that we
remain a divided country. And while about eighty million Americans
voted for President Biden back in twenty twenty, more than
seventy million Americans voted for Trump this time, which was
enough to win because Harris got a lot your votes
than Biden did. We're going to get to what our
(01:03):
listeners think that means for them and the country in
a moment. But whether you are feeling great or really
upset right now, I just want to say that even
if you have muted all of the people in your
social media feed who disagree with you politically, you may
even have friends and family who voted the opposite way.
And the reason we're here doing this show the Middle
(01:25):
is that I think it's important to keep the lines
of communication open and to keep having conversation with our
fellow Americans even when we disagree. To meet in the middle. So,
with that said, what do the election results mean for you?
What are your hopes and your fears for the future,
Whether you're thrilled or scared, we want to hear from you. Tulliver,
what's the number to call it.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It's eight four four for a middle that's eight four
four four six four three three five three Or write
to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So let's meet our panel. Major Garrett Chief Washington correspondent
for CBS News and co author of The Big Truth,
Upholding Democracy in the Age of the Big Lie. Major,
welcome back to the Middle. Great to be with you
and also joining us is Rose Scott, host of Wabes
Atlanta's closer look Rose, Welcome to the.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Middle thanks a lot, appreciate it well.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Before we get to the phones of major this is
obviously going to be a huge change for the country.
What do you make of what happened on Tuesday?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Several things. First of all, it's worth noting that in
nine out of ten counties in our country, former President
Trump increased his vote share, larger in some counties than others.
But that is an indicator that having evaluated the options,
and every election is a choice between the available options,
(02:41):
not the perfect world, the available options in front of you.
There was sufficient dissatisfaction and that's putting it mildly with
the Biden Harris record, and not necessarily a dissatisfaction with
Kamala Harris the person, but a discomfort with possibly the
(03:04):
process that made her the nominee, the shortened campaign, the
compressed time she had to identify herself and her agenda.
That for many Americans, who even told exit polsters they
don't like former President Trump, they believe he has significant
character flaws, they still voted for him, which meant what
(03:25):
has happened globally happened here. What do I mean by
that in every global democracy in the post COVID era,
the incumbent party, whether right or left, has suffered a
significant setback defeat. What happened there, happened here.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, we just saw it happen in the United Kingdom
as well, with the Conservative Partner Party just having a
huge route and being replaced by Labor Rose Scott, what
about from your vantage point? You're in the state of Georgia,
which went for Biden just barely four years ago, but
flip back to Trump this time. What do you make
of it?
Speaker 6 (03:56):
Let me back up first, because there were a couple
of things that Major Garrett's said that I agree with,
But then I'm going to push back a little bit
in terms of you know, what I took away from
this was that there still is this concept of people
have a problem or an issue with women in leadership
(04:18):
and a woman of color in leadership. And you know,
I always go back to James Baldwin, which is one
of my favorite people, in the quote that he says,
you know, I can't believe what you say because I
see what you do.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
And in all of the I guess.
Speaker 6 (04:35):
Excitement and promises of from certain demographics that Kamala Harris
would get their vote, especially here in Georgia and especially
with white women, that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
What about what about Rose with black men and Latino
men who also came over to Trump in ways that
they had not before. Is that for the same reason
do you think or what do you think that was about?
Speaker 6 (05:01):
I think there was a lot of intentional misinformation targeting
black men, and I think there was a lot of
intentional divisiveness among Yeah, there were black men that voted
for Trump before, there was gonna be something that voted
for Trump this time. But also to Jeremy going back
to how do we as a nation, how we receive
(05:26):
information and how we process that information, how it influences
us as voters, you know, And yeah, there were black
there were black men that voted for Trump. Aaron George,
I think it came out to maybe like nineteen twenty percent,
which is which someone can say is fairly large.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
But that wasn't the issue for me. That that was
an issue for me.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
I think when you place so much emphasis on a
very small black folks only make up with thirteen fourteen
percent of the entire nation, but yet in order to
get a black woman elected own of color. We've got
to have every black person on earth, every black person
in the US.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Wolfare come on that. Okayt Rock with.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
That major your book is about upholding democracy. That's probably
one of the biggest fears people have right now. What
happens to our democracy with Donald Trump in charge? After
his role in January sixth, after the Supreme Court decision
that gave him immunity for anything that's considered an official
act as president. What about that?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So a couple of things are worth noting. In his
political life, Donald Trump has received two concession calls in
presidential elections. He has never made one. He has twice
been granted. Once it operationally, it means has already happened.
One aspirationally means it's going to happen. The benefit, the
(06:47):
enormous structural benefit of a smooth and uninhibited transition. He
did not provide that. Now. I know what Trump supporters
will say, who cares he won matters? These things matter
when you are invested with power of the presidency as
now President elect Trump has been. What he does with
(07:10):
that power matters. It matters to people all across America,
but it particularly matters to people in vulnerable, economic, racial,
or other situations, and that he never made a concession call,
never provided a smooth transition, tells the nation he has
(07:31):
a fundamentally different idea about the obligations of power than
every previous president in our country. I believe that is
a point of concern, and it's one that will play
out in his second term.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Let's go to the phones, because we've got the lines
lighting up right now. Linda is into cab County, Georgia. Linda,
Welcome to the middle. Go ahead, hopes or fears for
the future.
Speaker 7 (07:55):
I think my biggest hope is that, honestly, that I'm wrong,
and that the arey seven percent of people who voted
for Pablo Evers are wrong, that the Republicans are right,
and that US will just get better. You know, things
will stay relatively stable, the US will keep its world
government world position, and you know, our borders won't improve
(08:18):
and our antoonomy won't prove. Because if the people who
voted are in are wrong and I'm right, there's going
to be a lot of pain and suffering.
Speaker 8 (08:31):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So you voted for you voted for Kamala Harris. It
sounds like, but you're you're sort of hopeful that you
were wrong about that and that everything will be okay.
Speaker 7 (08:41):
I'm hopeful that I'm like, like we're exaggerating the script
that like, mm, the rest of the party is not
that not indebted. That's not the right word. Controlled that's
not right word either, my mom. But I don't think.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, well, I think we get your point, Linda, we
get your point. Thank you for that call. Rose Scott
your thoughts. I've heard this from other people is that
they they're very upset right now. If they were voting
for Kamala Harris, they're very worried, but maybe they're trying
to they're in the part of the grieving process where
they're hoping that things will be better than they think.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
So right after the election, actually, obviously yesterday I opened
up the phone line. I won't do a lot here
at WABE, but I opened up the phone lines and
I asked people simply, how are you feeling for the
next four years, And majority of the callers said they
were fearful because we've been here before.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Now, Donald Trump.
Speaker 6 (09:47):
In twenty sixteen through twenty twenty, that is his track record, right,
That's what Americans have to go on and for certain
populations in this nation, they see that track record, and
obviously they are concerned. If there was any optimism, perhaps
it's because you hope, you hope that the words that
(10:10):
came out of his mouth to Uesday night when he
talked about healing and majorre You can correct me if
I'm wrong. I don't even know if I've ever heard
him use the word healing at all doing this campaign.
So if he is truly about healing this nation and
bringing the nation together, then it is going to have
to be a tremendous change major in his first term
(10:31):
for a lot of for a lot of popular for
a lot of people in this in this in this nation.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
And that's just it is what it is.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Rose. I have to say, if people are nervous, they
just need to listen to your voice. It's so smooth,
so calm. I feel like everything's going to be okay now.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Well, and and uh, you know, Caliver, I know a
lot of a lot of comments are coming in online
as we take the phone calls as well, but tell
us some of the things that are coming in that
listen to the middle dot Com.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, Caroline outside of Boston says, I am extremely lucky
and privileged, and yet while walking back home, I suddenly
felt more unsafe than I ever have before because of
a convicted felon can become the President of the United States.
Was to stop anyone from attacking me on my way home?
Does accountability still exist? Linda and Colorado says, I believe
this would not have happened had Biden not let the
(11:15):
border get so out of control. I'm angry with him
and the Dems for not dealing with this before it
was too late. He needs to own it. The American
people have clearly spoken, and we all need to make
the best of it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Major Garrett, just briefly on that point. How much was
the border do you think the issue here.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
An enormous problem. It's been a enormous political and policy
problem for the Biden administration for three almost the entire administration,
and down the stretch when it was clearly a political drag,
the administration took executive action and the number monthly number
of border crossings has dropped dramatically below Trump era numbers.
(11:51):
But the perception had already been baked in, and that
was a problem, and it manifested itself unequivocally on election night.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
We'll stand by because Oliver, I just want to remind
our podcast audience that they can make a contribution to
this program if they feel that it is important at
this moment in time to have this conversation across party lines,
across the entire country. You can go to Listen to
the Middle dot com. It's tax deductible. Any amount is
really helpful. This is an independent production, So do that
and we'll be right back with more of the Middle
(12:19):
right after this. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
If you're just tuning in the Middle as a national
call in show, we're focused on elevating voices from the
middle geographically, politically, and philosophically, or maybe you just want
to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you
what the election results mean for you. What are your
hopes and fears for the future. Tolliver, what is the
number to call in?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I'm joined by Major Garrett, Chief Washington correspondent for CBS News,
and Rose Scott at WABE in Atlanta, And before we
get back to the phones, Major Garrett, did Trump win
the political middle in this election? And what might he
do to hold on to them? If he did?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Broadly speaking, the answer is yes. You can't look at
it any other way. He is on pace to win
the popular vote. We still have votes to count in
California and some other Western states, but by all estimates,
he will win the popular vote. That is a significant
accomplishment for him. Hasn't happened for a Republican presidential nominee
(13:25):
since two thousand and four, when George Bush won the
popular vote, So that's a long period of time and
that was not expected. That was hinted at in the
polling data, but very few people looking at the polling
data said, wow, is he really going to win the
popular vote? In fact, he is going to. That is
a suggestion broadly speaking, that he won certainly more of
(13:45):
the middle than Kamala Harris did. What is he going
to do to maintain it? Look, the very first week
of the Trump administration will be extremely telling. Yes, he
did talk about healing, but if in fact he does
what he said he would do on the campaign trail,
which is through executive action begin the largest These are
his words, not mine mass deportation effort in the history
(14:07):
of our country, and they do target one million undocumented
immigrants in our country to deport per year. That will
require federal, state, and local law enforcement. It may involve
the National Guard, it may involve the US military. It
will certainly have to involve some form of detention facilities.
(14:29):
There's a private firm that announced today that runs prisons
in our country that they expect to be a contracted
entity to imprisoned undocumented immigrants in between their status here
in the United States and their eventual deportation. If those
things begin to happen in the first week of his presidency,
the concept of healing and the concept of unity will
(14:51):
be tested. And that's putting it mildly well.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And people will probably realize just how deeply in in
our economy workers who are undocumented are, and maybe the
reaction will be different than it is to rhetoric on
the campaign trail. Let's go to Craig, who's in Saint Martinsville, Louisiana. Craig,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 8 (15:15):
He I feel he's going to.
Speaker 9 (15:19):
Attempt a third and fourth term.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Okay, so let's take that at that point. Rose Scott,
I remember being a citizen of New York City many
years ago when Michael Bloomberg, the mayor, actually did get
the city council to allow him to run for a
third term, and he did and he won that third term.
How much fear is there? Do you think of this
that Donald Trump, given all the power that Craig just
(15:45):
mentioned there, would try to stay in power longer or
something like that.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
I love that you give me all the fear questions. Well,
anything's possible with Donald Trump, right, And you know the
thing about me, and I think my listeners here in
Atlanta know that. And I subscribe to a lot of
people who I consider heroes. And she rose and you know,
(16:12):
Barbara Jordan says, Look, if the society today allows wrongs
to go on challenge, the impression is created that those
wrongs have the approval of the majority, and if folks
want to the powers that be allow him to get
another term.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
There you have it.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Let's go to Eric who is in Jennison, Michigan. Eric,
welcome to the middle. Go ahead with your hopes or
fears for the future.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
Yeah, I hope we can come together as a nation
and kind of put aside who we voted for and why,
and also just kind of accept the results and hopefully
just focus on prices and making America livable by making
it affordable, because there's way too many families that are
struggling out there. And I was a little disheartened when
(17:01):
the first things I hear what the Democrats did wrong.
I didn't even vote for president. I skipped that one
because I don't support any candidate. I couldn't pick one personally,
and kind of accept that. But the first things I
hear what the Democrats had drawn or why they lost
is because a woman in color couldn't be, you know,
chosen by the masses. And I think that's kind of
(17:24):
further flaming the fears and flaming the things that we
need to move on past as a nation, because I
think she was a flawed candidate. She didn't even win
the primary. She was set up with a very short
runway that was probably impossible to land on. So yeah,
I just see Ann jump to that right away last
night when when Trump was kind of determined to be
(17:47):
the winner, and it just kind of turned me off
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Oh So, Eric, let me just ask you quickly, then
why didn't you vote for president?
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Because I didn't agree with either candidate. I think Trump's
done some things that are that you can't really dismiss.
And I don't think Camilla had really earned her place
as the party leader. No one, we didn't vote her
in there.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I guess, yeah, yeah, okay, Eric, thank you very much
for that. I guess major We're gonna just fall into
Rose's trap here. I'm going to give you the hope
and then she'll get the fear. But that's actually it's interesting.
Eric is probably representative of a lot of people if
Kamala Harris's numbers were so much lower than Joe Biden's,
who just decided they weren't going to vote for the
candidate at all.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Look, and I think Rose will back me up on this.
There is a reflexive desire among many Americans, most of
them white, to say stop talking about race as an
answer to whatever the question is. And I understand that
reflective because it's uncomfortable for white Americans to reconcile themselves
(18:54):
to actual lived history and things that we can see
but we'd rather not notice. I'm not saying that's the
only reasons or even the principal reason. But there is
clearly in our country, clearly a hesitation I won't say
a version, but a hesitation to invest in this particular office,
(19:17):
the powers from the presidency in the hands of a woman.
And until it is seen, it is invisible. Until it happens,
it is impossible. And I don't know when, if ever,
that day is going to come. I suspect it will.
But we have lived history, this time with a woman
of color who received fewer votes even though there was
(19:40):
much more active on the ground communication and mobilization than
occurred for Hillary Clinton or that occurred for Joe Biden,
because they didn't do that during the pandemic. You have
to factor that in, whether it's uncomfortable for you to
factor it in or not.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Let's go to David in Salt Lake City. David, welcome
to the middle.
Speaker 10 (19:59):
Go ahead with all the talk, and it's not both
ways back and forth about Donald Trump, you know, being
involved with the Project twenty twenty five, you know that
he's hinted that, you know, key people involved with the
drafting of of that document will be close to him
(20:22):
in his cabinet or just you know, in his circle
while he's in office, possibly influencing policy. Just it worries
me if just the uh, the push of Christian nationalism
that's been going on in our country, which you know,
being a Christian is not inherently a bad thing, but
(20:44):
the views that I've been seeing in this document and
what I've been hearing on the internet just worry me.
They seems so extreme, and I'm worried that that is
going to push forward with the Trump president.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Seed David, thank you for that Rose Scott Project twenty
twenty five. Donald Trump claimed during the campaign that he
wasn't associated with it, but the Heritage Foundation has been
kind of coming up with a plan for a lot
of things in his administration. They're the ones that came
up with Project twenty twenty five. What about that? What
about David's thoughts there?
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Well, doesn't j d Vance have a direct.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Forward right an be right for right exactly?
Speaker 6 (21:25):
You know, and listen, I don't want to sound flippid.
I don't want well, look, no matter how I signed,
folks are gonna did. She's an angry black woman because
look that's how I was born. And no matter what
I say or do, But it's not hard Jeremy and Major.
It's not hard for people to access accurate and credible information.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
It's not that hard.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
And as Majors just said, whether people want to admit
it or not, are they're uncomfortable about race? The bottom
line is a big part of this is about race
and sex for gender wherever people prefer it is.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Yes, I mean I don't know. I don't know what more.
And it's not that I'm taking sides. It is what
it is.
Speaker 6 (22:09):
I know what I see, I talk to people. I've
been a journalist for almost thirty years. I live in
this country. I'm a black woman in this country. Don't
dismiss what it means for me to be discriminated is
because of the color of my skin or my gender.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Tell Major sort of to that point, how much do
you think Americans are voting on policy? Could because we
had President Trump famously say I have concepts of a plan.
Do you think Americans were voting on policy or just
on vibe who they like character?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, well, they clearly were not voting on character, because
even a majority of Trump supporters, meaning those who voted
for him, whether they're supporters or not, maybe a different distinction,
but those who voted for him acknowledged deep reservations about
his characters, so character was not a discounting factor for
people who voted for former President Trump it comes to policy.
(23:01):
He made a reference in the debate, the one and
only debate about the future of the Affordable Care Act
otherwise known as Obamacare. We'll get rid of it or
we'll change it dramatically. What are you going to do?
Live concepts of a plan. The Republican Party as currently
composed doesn't have a concept of a plan. I covered
the first two years of the Trump administration when there
(23:21):
was a Republican House and a Republican Senate. The House
did pass the bill, the Senate Republicans had no interest
in that bill, drafted an entirely different one. There was
no meeting of the minds. The Trump White House didn't
know what it wanted, and they found it to be
incredibly fraught political terrain. The Affordable Care Act is even
more popular now than it was then, so I don't
(23:41):
think they have a plan or even the political will
to pursue that. That doesn't mean they're not going to
pursue other things like tariffs and tax cuts, reducing the
corporate tax rate from twenty one percent to a target
of fifteen percent. That will benefit corporations, and that will
benefit the wealthiest in this country. There will be some
ancillary benefit to middle class and aspiring middle class Americans,
(24:02):
but the preponderance of those benefits will go to the
wealthiest Americans. Those are just policy facts. But when you're
aggravated about inflation, when you're aggravated about either an open
border or a soft border, and you don't hear from
the party in power answers responsive to your direct concerns,
you look for alternatives. And that's what happened.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
And he's right, He's right, Jeremy.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
And look, we've been talking about this, and I know
you have some college to get to, so but let
me just say this. I know that when people go
into the polling location and right and they have to
make Am I making a choice for my investment in
the future. I am making a choice for how I'm
living right now? And I understand it. It's called six
dollars a garden, all right.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Six dollars you're not getting the nice ones that are
that are where they're good to the chickens.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, right, that's more.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Brett is with us from Tetonia, Idaho. Brett, what are
your hopes or fears of the future.
Speaker 11 (25:01):
Well, my hopes are that if given the ability and
has a plan, that Donald Trump can actually do what
he says he says.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
He will do.
Speaker 11 (25:15):
But we have to admit both candidates made promises a
lot of promises of how they would fix everything, but
all those promises require a lot of work to make
come to fruition, and both Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.
I was not a supporter of his, but I am
(25:36):
an American and I realized that we have to go
along with it for now. And he's got at least
at least a dollid two years to at least prove
that what he's promised that he makes come to fruition,
and if he doesn't, then we have to work on
(25:57):
how we restructure things so that we can move forward
to the next presidential election. But I also have to
mention that something that's maybe often talked about but not
talked about in depth. I'm an American citizen. I've traveled
the world running rivers, difficult rivers, and probably the most
difficult thing I've ever gone through in my life was
(26:19):
the American immigration system. Where I married a woman from
outside of the country, tried to bring her in and
it was the most difficult, heartless process I've ever gone
through in my life.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So do you think that it's going to get worse
than with with Trump's plans, that it's going to get harder,
or or do you think that I.
Speaker 11 (26:40):
Think it's already. I think the immigration process has already
broken from I tried this in two thousand and five,
right is when I went through this process, and so
the process itself is clearly broken, right, the paperwork process,
the process of someone applying to be I was an
(27:01):
American citizen bringing in my legally married wife and it
was a two year process that cost me tens of thousands.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
So just to close the loop, Brett, are you excited
that that there will be changing immigration and deportation policy
by President Trump?
Speaker 11 (27:18):
But I'm not excited whatsoever about that, because I don't
think that that's the point that they're dealing with. They're
steaky talking about the border, right, the border being the problem,
the border isn't the problem.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
But not not worrying about not working on the actual
immigration process. We'll have to see what happens there. Briefly, major, Garrett,
that is going to be one of the most important
things that happens at the beginning of his Trump as
you mentioned, a mass deportation.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yes, since I've already outlined the difficulties there. But just
for the caller's point, Yeah, we have an asylum system
in our country that it's overwhelmed. Judicially. We don't have
enough courts or judges to handle the evidence presented by
the seeking asylum of refugee status. That's a problem. And
when you go through the legal processes the caller did,
and it takes as long as it does. You know
(28:07):
what you do when you live in desperate economic or
personal safety circumstances. You don't go through that process because
it takes too long and you don't have that time.
You are a desperate individual and you try to cross
our border illegally because you have to find a way
to live. And that is a fundamental truth. And until
we reform the way we handle the legal part of
this process, we will always have a bubble of illegal immigration.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Tolliver just a comment or two from What's coming in online.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, Candace, a self described soccer mom, says Trump would
not have gained the ground he did with the Latino vote.
If the Dems didn't rest on their laurels. As a
Latina woman who would now characterize myself as an independent,
I'm incredibly disappointed in the Democratic Party. They had zero strategy.
David Ohio says, I'm not a Trump supporter, but I
stayed home and I'm happy about the outcome. To be clear,
(28:57):
I didn't dislike Kamal as a candidate. I'm glad the
Democratic staff lost. Maybe they'll start paying attention to working people.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Interesting to hear so many people say that they stayed home.
Stand by because, Wow, Tolliver, we are getting a lot
of calls, a lot of very interesting callers line from
around the country. We've got more of them coming up
right after this. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobbson
this hour, we're asking you what do the election results
mean for you? What are your hopes and your fears
for the future. You can call us at eight four
(29:23):
four four Middle. That's eight four four four six four
three three five three. You can also reach out at
listen to Themiddle dot com. I'm joined by Rose Scott
at WABE, the public radio station in Atlanta, and Major
Garrett Chief Washington correspondent for CBS News, And just before
we go back to the phones, Rose Scott, You're in Atlanta,
home to one of the many legal cases against Donald Trump,
(29:44):
the one in Georgia, which involves his attempt to overturn
the twenty twenty election. He was famously asking the Secretary
of State to find him those votes. What happens now
to that case, since it has nothing to do with
the US Justice Department, Well.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
That's a very good question. Fannie Willis Fulton Kind district
attorney who just won a reelection here in Fulton County,
has not said much about it, but there's some speculation
that one or two things have happened. This could be
delayed until about twenty twenty nine, after Trump's second term
in office, or the Supreme Court could intervene, and we
know that he has a very favorable Supreme Court. They
(30:19):
could intervene and listen eight felonies down from originally thirteen.
That could be in favor for Donald Trump. But also
December fifth, Jeremy here in Georgia, the Georgia Kover Appeals
will hear the arguments because Trump and about eight others
co defendants they want Fannie Will still removed from this
(30:41):
case and a decision could come later in March of
twenty twenty five. So there are a couple of things
that could work in favor of President elect Trump.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
We just don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Let's go to Jim, who is in Northport, Alabama. Jim,
welcome to the middle, Go ahead.
Speaker 9 (30:57):
Thanks for taking my call. Yeah, I was just wondering.
I had heard that President elect Trump might possibly suspend
the Constitution at some time, and so I was just
wondering if your panel could have a discussion of how
that might be done successfully or now.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Jim, thank you getting to the heart of the matter there,
Major Garrett, he has He did say at one point
that he was going to suspend the constitution, kind of
walk that back, but also said he was going to
be a dictator on day one. What about that?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, So the great question for the country, abstractly and
practically is when is Trump to be taken seriously? When
is he taken to be directional or even just intentionally hyperbolic.
It means he has no intention of doing what he says,
He's just trying to get your attention. Well, when it
comes to the Constitution, we're going to find out, and
(31:48):
one of the earlier callers said he had some concern
about Trump not leaving office about seeking another term. Look,
there are people within the trumpest conservative echo chamber that
have already written about this, who said the Constitution's interpretation
of two terms only refers to two consecutive terms, and
(32:10):
if they're separated, that doesn't apply. We've never tested that theory,
but that those in the Trump legal echo chamber have
already written it, wrote it months ago. Tells you that
this is an idea that will cross his desk if
in fact President elect Trump wants to heal the country
(32:30):
be a unifying figure. Among the things he should most
quickly clear up is his status as an elected and
re elected president and make it unequivocally clear he will
create no apparatus and he will not seek reelection and
that's it, and be final about that. Any ambiguity around
that will leave this question hanging and all other constitutional
(32:54):
related matters in limbo.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
And by the end of that third term, he'd be
what eighty two eight, He's seventy eight right now.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Jen is in Atlanta, Georgia. Jen, welcome to the middle.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Go ahead.
Speaker 12 (33:11):
I just wanted to say that some of my fears
go far beyond Trump. I do believe that he is
and I think a lot of people don't think he's
particularly talented in governing. He has a short attention span,
he's a ratic. We want to go into his intelligence
(33:32):
level when it comes to governing, and if it's an
area that he's not interested in, he's just come handed
to someone else. I think most of what happened the
first time he was in was going on in the
background McConnell and his group. I don't think Trump really
did much, and I feel like there's a lot of
(33:53):
people who have agendas that are more intelligent in him,
like maybe a JD Vance or something, who could, even
if Trump becomes incapacitated, take over. Who are going to
be trying to get hold of certain things and start
running with those things, and Trump will let them if
(34:15):
it doesn't directly affect him. The other thing that worries
me is the maybe not too just in future when
Trump is long gone, because he's laid down a blueprint
for people that are smarter, more organized, and really do
want to take what we have here and undermine it
(34:41):
and take it over and destroy it. There's a pathway
now that has been clearly laid out, and all it
takes is someone who isn't such a Barnum and Bailey
kind of guy like Trump is, and who's really a
little more devious and a lot more intelligent.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
More Jen, thank you for that, Rose Scott. Jen's point,
I guess it's the people around Trump that most concerns
her well.
Speaker 6 (35:07):
And I also think that Jen hit on the point,
and as she was closing out, is that there is
a blueprint that's been laid that if you can get
your base to support you, even through all of the shenanigans,
even through all of the lies, even through all of
the nastiness, and you still can get a base to
(35:30):
support you, and then even chip away at other voter
demographics to to fall in line and support for you.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
She's absolutely right.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
That is a blueprint that is a template for someone
to come along who may may have a more pleasant personality,
you know, maybe more more charismatic, but still has that
same type of plan.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Let me squeeze in a couple more calls here. Jude
is in Providence, Rhode Island. Jude, Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 13 (36:00):
Go ahead, Hi, Jeremy, thank you for taking my call.
I'm fearful, you know, as a gay white man, I
fear that, you know, my new marriage to my husband
could be gone in an instant.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Uh.
Speaker 13 (36:18):
You know, Clarence Thomas already mentioned that that that you know,
should be read discovered, and I think, you know, as
as miss Scott correctly pointed out, we've been here before,
and plenty of people have said, and I agree with this,
When Donald Trump tells you he's going to do something,
(36:41):
he's going to do it. And so I think it's
only a matter of time before we see everything that
he's laid out is going to start happening. And I
would encourage people to read The Twilight of Democracy by
Anne Applebaum.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Because it lays out a really good.
Speaker 13 (37:00):
You of how Victor Orbon and other autocrats and fascists
in this world have have started their regimes, and Donald
Trump has started his right with the mass deportations. That's
the first thing they always do.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Jude, thank you, I yeah, thank you very much a
lot there. But I really appreciate your call. And you know,
we do know that in addition to gay men being
being worried in the way that Jude is, that probably
a lot of trans people in this country very worried,
especially because that ad that the Trump campaign ran to
(37:41):
the tune of tens of millions of dollars in the
Swing States that said Kamala Harris is for they them,
Donald Trump is for you. Seen as really anti trans
Let's get to Zayin, who's in Philadelphia, Zain, welcome to
the middle, Go ahead.
Speaker 14 (37:57):
I would say it's more of a discipline ointment for
me personally than a fear. I feel like I kind of,
you know, saw this coming a bit. I'm you know,
disappointed that I feel like we really fumbled an opportunity here.
I think, you know, a lot of a lot of
this loss. You know, while there are a lot of
(38:19):
elements like racism and sexism there, that it also comes
down to a policy focus, like you know, the the
issue in Goza and Palestine was really big among you know,
other issues. But I think personally, for me, I'm I'm disappointed,
you know too, I was going to be disappointed either way.
(38:41):
I just think, you know, on one hand, we were
going to have to fight. On the other hand, we're
going to have to fight even harder. And you know,
for me, that looks like you know, organizing coming together,
making sure that we stay informed, you know, vet vetting
the sources where we get our information, and you know,
when the government does something that we don't like, rallying
(39:04):
together and making our voices heard and making sure that
you know, we stand up and fight for those things.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Zane, thank you for that, Major Garrett. I guess Zane's
point that now he will organize and five for the
things he believes in. What did the Democrats do from
here now?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
A lot of things, But first I just want to
address Jude's concern expressed a moment ago, because in twenty
twenty two, the Respect for Marriage Act was passed and
signed into law by President Biden. That requires every state
in the country to respect the validity of same sex marriages,
and that's universal. That was passed in response to a
Clarence Thomas footnote in one case questioning the Supreme Court's
(39:47):
constitutional interpretation that the Constitution protected not only same sex
marriage as it did in Obergefeld, but also interracial marriage,
as it did in Loving Reed, Virginia. So Congress saw that,
was alarmed and passed the law and it's been signed
by President Biden that clarifies that status. And I hope
(40:07):
that is of some comfort to Jude. What do Democrats
have to do? Look, this is I've covered national politics, Jeremy.
It's been the great privilege of my life. It's what
I dreamed about being able to do as a child,
and I've been able to do it since nineteen ninety.
And every time there's an election that goes demonstrably in
one direction, the losing party comes to the conclusion, in
(40:27):
all of its emotional, overwrought tension and exhaustion, that it
can't do anything right. Similarly, the winning party suddenly assumes
it can do nothing wrong, and the winning party begins
to overreach, and the losing party begins to re examine itself,
quite and much faster than most Americans appreciate. Things begin
to churn. I was at press conference after press conference
(40:49):
in two thousand and four after John Kerry lost to
George W. Bush, where Democrats were convinced there was no hope,
there was no future. Karl Robe was talking about the
permanent realignment of a Republican majority in the country. In
two thousand and six, Democrats retook Congress, and in two
thousand and eight Barack Obama was elected president. Things can
and do shift and they can happen quickly.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Let's go to Gregory in Houston. Gregory, welcome to the
middle What do you think hopees for fears?
Speaker 4 (41:16):
We always can have hope. But at the same time,
he kind of got a fear, you know, who's in charge.
And like I said, we dealt with him four years
once before, and this four years is gonna be a
little bit more harder, you know, because of the rhetoric,
you know, all the things he kept going. And I
just think like right now that you know, the economy
is doing good, is getting there. It's not where we
(41:37):
want it, but it's getting there. So he's he's, like
I said, he's gonna take over a good economy. It's
gonna make him look good. Everybody gonna be screaming at
Holland about how good they was doing under Trump administration,
realizing that those were Obama economics that he was doing
good under. And after this first year when he put
(41:58):
his economic plan into play, were gonna really see what
Trump is all about. You know.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
I think it's that Colors point. Sorry so sorry to
cut you off. I think to your point, the Harrison Ministry,
the Biden Harris administration really struggled to outline their successes.
You know, the economy, like you said, is doing really
really well right now. They passed a huge infrastructure, but
I feel like voters didn't know about any of that stuff.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
Scott, He's absolutely no, He's absolutely right, and and and
it is it was it, Jeremy, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
Yeah, that's right. Gregory is absolutely right.
Speaker 6 (42:32):
And also tell I'm gonna go back to something that
Major Garrett talked about in terms of the Democrats and
and look, they need to realize if they haven't, that
the realignment in this country not necessary, that it's just
down the line of Democrats and Republicans.
Speaker 5 (42:46):
But there's an ideology.
Speaker 6 (42:48):
There's a realignment of ideology for folks who are struggling
to just keep the lights on every day and making
sure that you are meeting and listening to listening to
those people and not just coming every four years to
the same demographic saying Okay, now we need your support
because we're here for you. You got to do something
(43:08):
starting now in these four years. There's a realignment. You
need to get with it and find out what's going on.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Stella is in Cope, South Carolina. Hi, Stella, what do
you think about the future.
Speaker 15 (43:22):
I'm very optimistic about the future. I supported Carlos Harris,
and when Trump won I was depressed. But then I
realized that perhaps this is an opportunity for America to
revitalize its principles, to remind Trump that we live in
(43:43):
a system by a system of laws, and those laws
govern the president as well as every other individual in
this nation. Trump cannot simply come in and take over
and make changes. I heard Gavin Newsoen talking about trump
proofing California, and I'm sure many other governors are also
(44:05):
trump proofing their states. Organizations, Individuals will trump proof their
actions in order to avoid the kinds of irrational decisions
that Trump might make. So he's not going to be
able to come in and simply change the nation unless
the nation allows him to do it. If every one
of us has to stand up for what's right, what's good,
(44:29):
what's honest, with decent and not allow anyone, not even Trump,
to come in and change that.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Stella Well said, let me have to point out the
irony of her being from a city called Cope.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Hoping Cope Major Garrett though, to sell us point how
much power is the opposition going to have.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Now, well, I want to take on something that she mentioned,
which I think is very important. Trump proofing your state
may in the short term create buffers from some of
the more extreme aspects of a Trump agenda, but it
would also eat away at the cohering nature of a union.
(45:10):
When states begin to act separately and differently in defiance
of the federal system, then you begin to question what
is a union? And is this the United States of America,
or as we called it before the Civil War, the
United States in America.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Rose Scott, We're running out of time in this hour,
but I'm going to give you the last word here
just on a question that I've had as we've been
sort of digesting the election and the results over the
last several years. We've been talking about groups being you know, red, blue, black, white.
In this election, it does seem like class divisions may
(45:52):
have been just as consequential.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
What do you think?
Speaker 5 (45:56):
Yeah, I think that's accurate. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
And I think also too for folks to understand that
when we talk about going to the polls and making
your vote, and I've heard people say, oh, I vote
my heart or you know, I'm going to vote because
of how I'm feeling right now. And we have experts
who always come on and talk about understanding, you know,
the voter from an emotional through emotional lens. And I
(46:21):
always ask people when you are voting, are you voting
for your future? Are you making an investment? Or you
just votify how you feel right now? And I look,
I understand, you know, I totally understand when people are
in there and they're making a decision is about how
they feel. But at the same time, you also have
to say what is the best right, what is best
(46:43):
for this nation moving forward for them? And I'm making
an investment at some time, and that's what I think
that people.
Speaker 5 (46:49):
That's the challenge people have, and I understand that.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
That is Roe Scott at w ABE in Atlanta. We've
also been speaking with Major Garrett, Chief Washington correspondent for
CBS News. Thanks to both of you so much for
joining us on this very busy week. Thanks you bed
a pleasure, and next week one more post election show.
For now, we'll be asking what you learned about the
country from this election. It's not gonna be a quiz
about this hour. We actually want to hear some new things.
As always, Tolliver. They can reach us out.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
At eight four four four Middle. You can call us
at eight four four four six four three through five three,
where you can reach out to listen to the Middle
dot com, where you can sign up for a free
weekly newsletter.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
The Middle is brought to you by Lungnok Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced by
Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, Samburmustas, and John Barth. Our intern
is an Akdessler. Our technical director is Jason Kroft. Thanks
to our podcast audience, our satellite radio listeners, and the
more than four hundred and twenty public radio stations that
are making it possible for people across the country to
listen to the Middle, I'm Jeremy Hobson, and I'll talk
(47:44):
to you next week.
Support for the Middle comes from the Tiwani Foundation, making
a sustained and measurable difference for organizations that focus on
enriching knowledge, improving health and wellness, and promoting scientific understanding.
More information on how you can support the Middle at
Listen to Them Middle dot com. Welcome to the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson, along with our house DJ Tolliver and Tolliver.
(00:23):
It really is amazing that after literally years of build
up and all of the punditry and the polls and
the primaries and the commentary, that it only takes basically
a few hours for the entire country to speak.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Man, I was in bed early ten pm, tucked ins nuggets,
a budget rug wow.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, you know, the one thing about elections like this
is we do actually learn things about the country. And
one thing that we learned, of course, is that we
remain a divided country. And while about eighty million Americans
voted for President Biden back in twenty twenty, more than
seventy million Americans voted for Trump this time, which was
enough to win because Harris got a lot your votes
than Biden did. We're going to get to what our
(01:03):
listeners think that means for them and the country in
a moment. But whether you are feeling great or really
upset right now, I just want to say that even
if you have muted all of the people in your
social media feed who disagree with you politically, you may
even have friends and family who voted the opposite way.
And the reason we're here doing this show the Middle
(01:25):
is that I think it's important to keep the lines
of communication open and to keep having conversation with our
fellow Americans even when we disagree. To meet in the middle. So,
with that said, what do the election results mean for you?
What are your hopes and your fears for the future,
Whether you're thrilled or scared, we want to hear from you. Tulliver,
what's the number to call it.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It's eight four four for a middle that's eight four
four four six four three three five three Or write
to us at Listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So let's meet our panel. Major Garrett Chief Washington correspondent
for CBS News and co author of The Big Truth,
Upholding Democracy in the Age of the Big Lie. Major,
welcome back to the Middle. Great to be with you
and also joining us is Rose Scott, host of Wabes
Atlanta's closer look Rose, Welcome to the.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
Middle thanks a lot, appreciate it well.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Before we get to the phones of major this is
obviously going to be a huge change for the country.
What do you make of what happened on Tuesday?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Several things. First of all, it's worth noting that in
nine out of ten counties in our country, former President
Trump increased his vote share, larger in some counties than others.
But that is an indicator that having evaluated the options,
and every election is a choice between the available options,
(02:41):
not the perfect world, the available options in front of you.
There was sufficient dissatisfaction and that's putting it mildly with
the Biden Harris record, and not necessarily a dissatisfaction with
Kamala Harris the person, but a discomfort with possibly the
(03:04):
process that made her the nominee, the shortened campaign, the
compressed time she had to identify herself and her agenda.
That for many Americans, who even told exit polsters they
don't like former President Trump, they believe he has significant
character flaws, they still voted for him, which meant what
(03:25):
has happened globally happened here. What do I mean by
that in every global democracy in the post COVID era,
the incumbent party, whether right or left, has suffered a
significant setback defeat. What happened there, happened here.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, we just saw it happen in the United Kingdom
as well, with the Conservative Partner Party just having a
huge route and being replaced by Labor Rose Scott, what
about from your vantage point? You're in the state of Georgia,
which went for Biden just barely four years ago, but
flip back to Trump this time. What do you make
of it?
Speaker 6 (03:56):
Let me back up first, because there were a couple
of things that Major Garrett's said that I agree with,
But then I'm going to push back a little bit
in terms of you know, what I took away from
this was that there still is this concept of people
have a problem or an issue with women in leadership
(04:18):
and a woman of color in leadership. And you know,
I always go back to James Baldwin, which is one
of my favorite people, in the quote that he says,
you know, I can't believe what you say because I
see what you do.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
And in all of the I guess.
Speaker 6 (04:35):
Excitement and promises of from certain demographics that Kamala Harris
would get their vote, especially here in Georgia and especially
with white women, that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
What about what about Rose with black men and Latino
men who also came over to Trump in ways that
they had not before. Is that for the same reason
do you think or what do you think that was about?
Speaker 6 (05:01):
I think there was a lot of intentional misinformation targeting
black men, and I think there was a lot of
intentional divisiveness among Yeah, there were black men that voted
for Trump before, there was gonna be something that voted
for Trump this time. But also to Jeremy going back
to how do we as a nation, how we receive
(05:26):
information and how we process that information, how it influences
us as voters, you know, And yeah, there were black
there were black men that voted for Trump. Aaron George,
I think it came out to maybe like nineteen twenty percent,
which is which someone can say is fairly large.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
But that wasn't the issue for me. That that was
an issue for me.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
I think when you place so much emphasis on a
very small black folks only make up with thirteen fourteen
percent of the entire nation, but yet in order to
get a black woman elected own of color. We've got
to have every black person on earth, every black person
in the US.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Wolfare come on that. Okayt Rock with.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
That major your book is about upholding democracy. That's probably
one of the biggest fears people have right now. What
happens to our democracy with Donald Trump in charge? After
his role in January sixth, after the Supreme Court decision
that gave him immunity for anything that's considered an official
act as president. What about that?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So a couple of things are worth noting. In his
political life, Donald Trump has received two concession calls in
presidential elections. He has never made one. He has twice
been granted. Once it operationally, it means has already happened.
One aspirationally means it's going to happen. The benefit, the
(06:47):
enormous structural benefit of a smooth and uninhibited transition. He
did not provide that. Now. I know what Trump supporters
will say, who cares he won matters? These things matter
when you are invested with power of the presidency as
now President elect Trump has been. What he does with
(07:10):
that power matters. It matters to people all across America,
but it particularly matters to people in vulnerable, economic, racial,
or other situations, and that he never made a concession call,
never provided a smooth transition, tells the nation he has
(07:31):
a fundamentally different idea about the obligations of power than
every previous president in our country. I believe that is
a point of concern, and it's one that will play
out in his second term.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Let's go to the phones, because we've got the lines
lighting up right now. Linda is into cab County, Georgia. Linda,
Welcome to the middle. Go ahead, hopes or fears for
the future.
Speaker 7 (07:55):
I think my biggest hope is that, honestly, that I'm wrong,
and that the arey seven percent of people who voted
for Pablo Evers are wrong, that the Republicans are right,
and that US will just get better. You know, things
will stay relatively stable, the US will keep its world
government world position, and you know, our borders won't improve
(08:18):
and our antoonomy won't prove. Because if the people who
voted are in are wrong and I'm right, there's going
to be a lot of pain and suffering.
Speaker 8 (08:31):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So you voted for you voted for Kamala Harris. It
sounds like, but you're you're sort of hopeful that you
were wrong about that and that everything will be okay.
Speaker 7 (08:41):
I'm hopeful that I'm like, like we're exaggerating the script
that like, mm, the rest of the party is not
that not indebted. That's not the right word. Controlled that's
not right word either, my mom. But I don't think.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, well, I think we get your point, Linda, we
get your point. Thank you for that call. Rose Scott
your thoughts. I've heard this from other people is that
they they're very upset right now. If they were voting
for Kamala Harris, they're very worried, but maybe they're trying
to they're in the part of the grieving process where
they're hoping that things will be better than they think.
Speaker 6 (09:23):
So right after the election, actually, obviously yesterday I opened
up the phone line. I won't do a lot here
at WABE, but I opened up the phone lines and
I asked people simply, how are you feeling for the
next four years, And majority of the callers said they
were fearful because we've been here before.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Now, Donald Trump.
Speaker 6 (09:47):
In twenty sixteen through twenty twenty, that is his track record, right,
That's what Americans have to go on and for certain
populations in this nation, they see that track record, and
obviously they are concerned. If there was any optimism, perhaps
it's because you hope, you hope that the words that
(10:10):
came out of his mouth to Uesday night when he
talked about healing and majorre You can correct me if
I'm wrong. I don't even know if I've ever heard
him use the word healing at all doing this campaign.
So if he is truly about healing this nation and
bringing the nation together, then it is going to have
to be a tremendous change major in his first term
(10:31):
for a lot of for a lot of popular for
a lot of people in this in this in this nation.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
And that's just it is what it is.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Rose. I have to say, if people are nervous, they
just need to listen to your voice. It's so smooth,
so calm. I feel like everything's going to be okay now.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Well, and and uh, you know, Caliver, I know a
lot of a lot of comments are coming in online
as we take the phone calls as well, but tell
us some of the things that are coming in that
listen to the middle dot Com.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, Caroline outside of Boston says, I am extremely lucky
and privileged, and yet while walking back home, I suddenly
felt more unsafe than I ever have before because of
a convicted felon can become the President of the United States.
Was to stop anyone from attacking me on my way home?
Does accountability still exist? Linda and Colorado says, I believe
this would not have happened had Biden not let the
(11:15):
border get so out of control. I'm angry with him
and the Dems for not dealing with this before it
was too late. He needs to own it. The American
people have clearly spoken, and we all need to make
the best of it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Major Garrett, just briefly on that point. How much was
the border do you think the issue here.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
An enormous problem. It's been a enormous political and policy
problem for the Biden administration for three almost the entire administration,
and down the stretch when it was clearly a political drag,
the administration took executive action and the number monthly number
of border crossings has dropped dramatically below Trump era numbers.
(11:51):
But the perception had already been baked in, and that
was a problem, and it manifested itself unequivocally on election night.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
We'll stand by because Oliver, I just want to remind
our podcast audience that they can make a contribution to
this program if they feel that it is important at
this moment in time to have this conversation across party lines,
across the entire country. You can go to Listen to
the Middle dot com. It's tax deductible. Any amount is
really helpful. This is an independent production, So do that
and we'll be right back with more of the Middle
(12:19):
right after this. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson.
If you're just tuning in the Middle as a national
call in show, we're focused on elevating voices from the
middle geographically, politically, and philosophically, or maybe you just want
to meet in the middle. This hour, we're asking you
what the election results mean for you. What are your
hopes and fears for the future. Tolliver, what is the
number to call in?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I'm joined by Major Garrett, Chief Washington correspondent for CBS News,
and Rose Scott at WABE in Atlanta, And before we
get back to the phones, Major Garrett, did Trump win
the political middle in this election? And what might he
do to hold on to them? If he did?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Broadly speaking, the answer is yes. You can't look at
it any other way. He is on pace to win
the popular vote. We still have votes to count in
California and some other Western states, but by all estimates,
he will win the popular vote. That is a significant
accomplishment for him. Hasn't happened for a Republican presidential nominee
(13:25):
since two thousand and four, when George Bush won the
popular vote, So that's a long period of time and
that was not expected. That was hinted at in the
polling data, but very few people looking at the polling
data said, wow, is he really going to win the
popular vote? In fact, he is going to. That is
a suggestion broadly speaking, that he won certainly more of
(13:45):
the middle than Kamala Harris did. What is he going
to do to maintain it? Look, the very first week
of the Trump administration will be extremely telling. Yes, he
did talk about healing, but if in fact he does
what he said he would do on the campaign trail,
which is through executive action begin the largest These are
his words, not mine mass deportation effort in the history
(14:07):
of our country, and they do target one million undocumented
immigrants in our country to deport per year. That will
require federal, state, and local law enforcement. It may involve
the National Guard, it may involve the US military. It
will certainly have to involve some form of detention facilities.
(14:29):
There's a private firm that announced today that runs prisons
in our country that they expect to be a contracted
entity to imprisoned undocumented immigrants in between their status here
in the United States and their eventual deportation. If those
things begin to happen in the first week of his presidency,
the concept of healing and the concept of unity will
(14:51):
be tested. And that's putting it mildly well.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And people will probably realize just how deeply in in
our economy workers who are undocumented are, and maybe the
reaction will be different than it is to rhetoric on
the campaign trail. Let's go to Craig, who's in Saint Martinsville, Louisiana. Craig,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 8 (15:15):
He I feel he's going to.
Speaker 9 (15:19):
Attempt a third and fourth term.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Okay, so let's take that at that point. Rose Scott,
I remember being a citizen of New York City many
years ago when Michael Bloomberg, the mayor, actually did get
the city council to allow him to run for a
third term, and he did and he won that third term.
How much fear is there? Do you think of this
that Donald Trump, given all the power that Craig just
(15:45):
mentioned there, would try to stay in power longer or
something like that.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
I love that you give me all the fear questions. Well,
anything's possible with Donald Trump, right, And you know the
thing about me, and I think my listeners here in
Atlanta know that. And I subscribe to a lot of
people who I consider heroes. And she rose and you know,
(16:12):
Barbara Jordan says, Look, if the society today allows wrongs
to go on challenge, the impression is created that those
wrongs have the approval of the majority, and if folks
want to the powers that be allow him to get
another term.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
There you have it.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Let's go to Eric who is in Jennison, Michigan. Eric,
welcome to the middle. Go ahead with your hopes or
fears for the future.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
Yeah, I hope we can come together as a nation
and kind of put aside who we voted for and why,
and also just kind of accept the results and hopefully
just focus on prices and making America livable by making
it affordable, because there's way too many families that are
struggling out there. And I was a little disheartened when
(17:01):
the first things I hear what the Democrats did wrong.
I didn't even vote for president. I skipped that one
because I don't support any candidate. I couldn't pick one personally,
and kind of accept that. But the first things I
hear what the Democrats had drawn or why they lost
is because a woman in color couldn't be, you know,
chosen by the masses. And I think that's kind of
(17:24):
further flaming the fears and flaming the things that we
need to move on past as a nation, because I
think she was a flawed candidate. She didn't even win
the primary. She was set up with a very short
runway that was probably impossible to land on. So yeah,
I just see Ann jump to that right away last
night when when Trump was kind of determined to be
(17:47):
the winner, and it just kind of turned me off
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Oh So, Eric, let me just ask you quickly, then
why didn't you vote for president?
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Because I didn't agree with either candidate. I think Trump's
done some things that are that you can't really dismiss.
And I don't think Camilla had really earned her place
as the party leader. No one, we didn't vote her
in there.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I guess, yeah, yeah, okay, Eric, thank you very much
for that. I guess major We're gonna just fall into
Rose's trap here. I'm going to give you the hope
and then she'll get the fear. But that's actually it's interesting.
Eric is probably representative of a lot of people if
Kamala Harris's numbers were so much lower than Joe Biden's,
who just decided they weren't going to vote for the
candidate at all.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Look, and I think Rose will back me up on this.
There is a reflexive desire among many Americans, most of
them white, to say stop talking about race as an
answer to whatever the question is. And I understand that
reflective because it's uncomfortable for white Americans to reconcile themselves
(18:54):
to actual lived history and things that we can see
but we'd rather not notice. I'm not saying that's the
only reasons or even the principal reason. But there is
clearly in our country, clearly a hesitation I won't say
a version, but a hesitation to invest in this particular office,
(19:17):
the powers from the presidency in the hands of a woman.
And until it is seen, it is invisible. Until it happens,
it is impossible. And I don't know when, if ever,
that day is going to come. I suspect it will.
But we have lived history, this time with a woman
of color who received fewer votes even though there was
(19:40):
much more active on the ground communication and mobilization than
occurred for Hillary Clinton or that occurred for Joe Biden,
because they didn't do that during the pandemic. You have
to factor that in, whether it's uncomfortable for you to
factor it in or not.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Let's go to David in Salt Lake City. David, welcome
to the middle.
Speaker 10 (19:59):
Go ahead with all the talk, and it's not both
ways back and forth about Donald Trump, you know, being
involved with the Project twenty twenty five, you know that
he's hinted that, you know, key people involved with the
drafting of of that document will be close to him
(20:22):
in his cabinet or just you know, in his circle
while he's in office, possibly influencing policy. Just it worries
me if just the uh, the push of Christian nationalism
that's been going on in our country, which you know,
being a Christian is not inherently a bad thing, but
(20:44):
the views that I've been seeing in this document and
what I've been hearing on the internet just worry me.
They seems so extreme, and I'm worried that that is
going to push forward with the Trump president.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Seed David, thank you for that Rose Scott Project twenty
twenty five. Donald Trump claimed during the campaign that he
wasn't associated with it, but the Heritage Foundation has been
kind of coming up with a plan for a lot
of things in his administration. They're the ones that came
up with Project twenty twenty five. What about that? What
about David's thoughts there?
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Well, doesn't j d Vance have a direct.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Forward right an be right for right exactly?
Speaker 6 (21:25):
You know, and listen, I don't want to sound flippid.
I don't want well, look, no matter how I signed,
folks are gonna did. She's an angry black woman because
look that's how I was born. And no matter what
I say or do, But it's not hard Jeremy and Major.
It's not hard for people to access accurate and credible information.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
It's not that hard.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
And as Majors just said, whether people want to admit
it or not, are they're uncomfortable about race? The bottom
line is a big part of this is about race
and sex for gender wherever people prefer it is.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Yes, I mean I don't know. I don't know what more.
And it's not that I'm taking sides. It is what
it is.
Speaker 6 (22:09):
I know what I see, I talk to people. I've
been a journalist for almost thirty years. I live in
this country. I'm a black woman in this country. Don't
dismiss what it means for me to be discriminated is
because of the color of my skin or my gender.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Tell Major sort of to that point, how much do
you think Americans are voting on policy? Could because we
had President Trump famously say I have concepts of a plan.
Do you think Americans were voting on policy or just
on vibe who they like character?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, well, they clearly were not voting on character, because
even a majority of Trump supporters, meaning those who voted
for him, whether they're supporters or not, maybe a different distinction,
but those who voted for him acknowledged deep reservations about
his characters, so character was not a discounting factor for
people who voted for former President Trump it comes to policy.
(23:01):
He made a reference in the debate, the one and
only debate about the future of the Affordable Care Act
otherwise known as Obamacare. We'll get rid of it or
we'll change it dramatically. What are you going to do?
Live concepts of a plan. The Republican Party as currently
composed doesn't have a concept of a plan. I covered
the first two years of the Trump administration when there
(23:21):
was a Republican House and a Republican Senate. The House
did pass the bill, the Senate Republicans had no interest
in that bill, drafted an entirely different one. There was
no meeting of the minds. The Trump White House didn't
know what it wanted, and they found it to be
incredibly fraught political terrain. The Affordable Care Act is even
more popular now than it was then, so I don't
(23:41):
think they have a plan or even the political will
to pursue that. That doesn't mean they're not going to
pursue other things like tariffs and tax cuts, reducing the
corporate tax rate from twenty one percent to a target
of fifteen percent. That will benefit corporations, and that will
benefit the wealthiest in this country. There will be some
ancillary benefit to middle class and aspiring middle class Americans,
(24:02):
but the preponderance of those benefits will go to the
wealthiest Americans. Those are just policy facts. But when you're
aggravated about inflation, when you're aggravated about either an open
border or a soft border, and you don't hear from
the party in power answers responsive to your direct concerns,
you look for alternatives. And that's what happened.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
And he's right, He's right, Jeremy.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
And look, we've been talking about this, and I know
you have some college to get to, so but let
me just say this. I know that when people go
into the polling location and right and they have to
make Am I making a choice for my investment in
the future. I am making a choice for how I'm
living right now? And I understand it. It's called six
dollars a garden, all right.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Six dollars you're not getting the nice ones that are
that are where they're good to the chickens.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, right, that's more.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Brett is with us from Tetonia, Idaho. Brett, what are
your hopes or fears of the future.
Speaker 11 (25:01):
Well, my hopes are that if given the ability and
has a plan, that Donald Trump can actually do what
he says he says.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
He will do.
Speaker 11 (25:15):
But we have to admit both candidates made promises a
lot of promises of how they would fix everything, but
all those promises require a lot of work to make
come to fruition, and both Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.
I was not a supporter of his, but I am
(25:36):
an American and I realized that we have to go
along with it for now. And he's got at least
at least a dollid two years to at least prove
that what he's promised that he makes come to fruition,
and if he doesn't, then we have to work on
(25:57):
how we restructure things so that we can move forward
to the next presidential election. But I also have to
mention that something that's maybe often talked about but not
talked about in depth. I'm an American citizen. I've traveled
the world running rivers, difficult rivers, and probably the most
difficult thing I've ever gone through in my life was
(26:19):
the American immigration system. Where I married a woman from
outside of the country, tried to bring her in and
it was the most difficult, heartless process I've ever gone
through in my life.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So do you think that it's going to get worse
than with with Trump's plans, that it's going to get harder,
or or do you think that I.
Speaker 11 (26:40):
Think it's already. I think the immigration process has already
broken from I tried this in two thousand and five,
right is when I went through this process, and so
the process itself is clearly broken, right, the paperwork process,
the process of someone applying to be I was an
(27:01):
American citizen bringing in my legally married wife and it
was a two year process that cost me tens of thousands.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
So just to close the loop, Brett, are you excited
that that there will be changing immigration and deportation policy
by President Trump?
Speaker 11 (27:18):
But I'm not excited whatsoever about that, because I don't
think that that's the point that they're dealing with. They're
steaky talking about the border, right, the border being the problem,
the border isn't the problem.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
But not not worrying about not working on the actual
immigration process. We'll have to see what happens there. Briefly, major, Garrett,
that is going to be one of the most important
things that happens at the beginning of his Trump as
you mentioned, a mass deportation.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yes, since I've already outlined the difficulties there. But just
for the caller's point, Yeah, we have an asylum system
in our country that it's overwhelmed. Judicially. We don't have
enough courts or judges to handle the evidence presented by
the seeking asylum of refugee status. That's a problem. And
when you go through the legal processes the caller did,
and it takes as long as it does. You know
(28:07):
what you do when you live in desperate economic or
personal safety circumstances. You don't go through that process because
it takes too long and you don't have that time.
You are a desperate individual and you try to cross
our border illegally because you have to find a way
to live. And that is a fundamental truth. And until
we reform the way we handle the legal part of
this process, we will always have a bubble of illegal immigration.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Tolliver just a comment or two from What's coming in online.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah, Candace, a self described soccer mom, says Trump would
not have gained the ground he did with the Latino vote.
If the Dems didn't rest on their laurels. As a
Latina woman who would now characterize myself as an independent,
I'm incredibly disappointed in the Democratic Party. They had zero strategy.
David Ohio says, I'm not a Trump supporter, but I
stayed home and I'm happy about the outcome. To be clear,
(28:57):
I didn't dislike Kamal as a candidate. I'm glad the
Democratic staff lost. Maybe they'll start paying attention to working people.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Interesting to hear so many people say that they stayed home.
Stand by because, Wow, Tolliver, we are getting a lot
of calls, a lot of very interesting callers line from
around the country. We've got more of them coming up
right after this. This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobbson
this hour, we're asking you what do the election results
mean for you? What are your hopes and your fears
for the future. You can call us at eight four
(29:23):
four four Middle. That's eight four four four six four
three three five three. You can also reach out at
listen to Themiddle dot com. I'm joined by Rose Scott
at WABE, the public radio station in Atlanta, and Major
Garrett Chief Washington correspondent for CBS News, And just before
we go back to the phones, Rose Scott, You're in Atlanta,
home to one of the many legal cases against Donald Trump,
(29:44):
the one in Georgia, which involves his attempt to overturn
the twenty twenty election. He was famously asking the Secretary
of State to find him those votes. What happens now
to that case, since it has nothing to do with
the US Justice Department, Well.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
That's a very good question. Fannie Willis Fulton Kind district
attorney who just won a reelection here in Fulton County,
has not said much about it, but there's some speculation
that one or two things have happened. This could be
delayed until about twenty twenty nine, after Trump's second term
in office, or the Supreme Court could intervene, and we
know that he has a very favorable Supreme Court. They
(30:19):
could intervene and listen eight felonies down from originally thirteen.
That could be in favor for Donald Trump. But also
December fifth, Jeremy here in Georgia, the Georgia Kover Appeals
will hear the arguments because Trump and about eight others
co defendants they want Fannie Will still removed from this
(30:41):
case and a decision could come later in March of
twenty twenty five. So there are a couple of things
that could work in favor of President elect Trump.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
We just don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Let's go to Jim, who is in Northport, Alabama. Jim,
welcome to the middle, Go ahead.
Speaker 9 (30:57):
Thanks for taking my call. Yeah, I was just wondering.
I had heard that President elect Trump might possibly suspend
the Constitution at some time, and so I was just
wondering if your panel could have a discussion of how
that might be done successfully or now.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Jim, thank you getting to the heart of the matter there,
Major Garrett, he has He did say at one point
that he was going to suspend the constitution, kind of
walk that back, but also said he was going to
be a dictator on day one. What about that?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, So the great question for the country, abstractly and
practically is when is Trump to be taken seriously? When
is he taken to be directional or even just intentionally hyperbolic.
It means he has no intention of doing what he says,
He's just trying to get your attention. Well, when it
comes to the Constitution, we're going to find out, and
(31:48):
one of the earlier callers said he had some concern
about Trump not leaving office about seeking another term. Look,
there are people within the trumpest conservative echo chamber that
have already written about this, who said the Constitution's interpretation
of two terms only refers to two consecutive terms, and
(32:10):
if they're separated, that doesn't apply. We've never tested that theory,
but that those in the Trump legal echo chamber have
already written it, wrote it months ago. Tells you that
this is an idea that will cross his desk if
in fact President elect Trump wants to heal the country
(32:30):
be a unifying figure. Among the things he should most
quickly clear up is his status as an elected and
re elected president and make it unequivocally clear he will
create no apparatus and he will not seek reelection and
that's it, and be final about that. Any ambiguity around
that will leave this question hanging and all other constitutional
(32:54):
related matters in limbo.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
And by the end of that third term, he'd be
what eighty two eight, He's seventy eight right now.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Jen is in Atlanta, Georgia. Jen, welcome to the middle.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Go ahead.
Speaker 12 (33:11):
I just wanted to say that some of my fears
go far beyond Trump. I do believe that he is
and I think a lot of people don't think he's
particularly talented in governing. He has a short attention span,
he's a ratic. We want to go into his intelligence
(33:32):
level when it comes to governing, and if it's an
area that he's not interested in, he's just come handed
to someone else. I think most of what happened the
first time he was in was going on in the
background McConnell and his group. I don't think Trump really
did much, and I feel like there's a lot of
(33:53):
people who have agendas that are more intelligent in him,
like maybe a JD Vance or something, who could, even
if Trump becomes incapacitated, take over. Who are going to
be trying to get hold of certain things and start
running with those things, and Trump will let them if
(34:15):
it doesn't directly affect him. The other thing that worries
me is the maybe not too just in future when
Trump is long gone, because he's laid down a blueprint
for people that are smarter, more organized, and really do
want to take what we have here and undermine it
(34:41):
and take it over and destroy it. There's a pathway
now that has been clearly laid out, and all it
takes is someone who isn't such a Barnum and Bailey
kind of guy like Trump is, and who's really a
little more devious and a lot more intelligent.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
More Jen, thank you for that, Rose Scott. Jen's point,
I guess it's the people around Trump that most concerns
her well.
Speaker 6 (35:07):
And I also think that Jen hit on the point,
and as she was closing out, is that there is
a blueprint that's been laid that if you can get
your base to support you, even through all of the shenanigans,
even through all of the lies, even through all of
the nastiness, and you still can get a base to
(35:30):
support you, and then even chip away at other voter
demographics to to fall in line and support for you.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
She's absolutely right.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
That is a blueprint that is a template for someone
to come along who may may have a more pleasant personality,
you know, maybe more more charismatic, but still has that
same type of plan.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Let me squeeze in a couple more calls here. Jude
is in Providence, Rhode Island. Jude, Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 13 (36:00):
Go ahead, Hi, Jeremy, thank you for taking my call.
I'm fearful, you know, as a gay white man, I
fear that, you know, my new marriage to my husband
could be gone in an instant.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Uh.
Speaker 13 (36:18):
You know, Clarence Thomas already mentioned that that that you know,
should be read discovered, and I think, you know, as
as miss Scott correctly pointed out, we've been here before,
and plenty of people have said, and I agree with this,
When Donald Trump tells you he's going to do something,
(36:41):
he's going to do it. And so I think it's
only a matter of time before we see everything that
he's laid out is going to start happening. And I
would encourage people to read The Twilight of Democracy by
Anne Applebaum.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Because it lays out a really good.
Speaker 13 (37:00):
You of how Victor Orbon and other autocrats and fascists
in this world have have started their regimes, and Donald
Trump has started his right with the mass deportations. That's
the first thing they always do.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Jude, thank you, I yeah, thank you very much a
lot there. But I really appreciate your call. And you know,
we do know that in addition to gay men being
being worried in the way that Jude is, that probably
a lot of trans people in this country very worried,
especially because that ad that the Trump campaign ran to
(37:41):
the tune of tens of millions of dollars in the
Swing States that said Kamala Harris is for they them,
Donald Trump is for you. Seen as really anti trans
Let's get to Zayin, who's in Philadelphia, Zain, welcome to
the middle, Go ahead.
Speaker 14 (37:57):
I would say it's more of a discipline ointment for
me personally than a fear. I feel like I kind of,
you know, saw this coming a bit. I'm you know,
disappointed that I feel like we really fumbled an opportunity here.
I think, you know, a lot of a lot of
this loss. You know, while there are a lot of
(38:19):
elements like racism and sexism there, that it also comes
down to a policy focus, like you know, the the
issue in Goza and Palestine was really big among you know,
other issues. But I think personally, for me, I'm I'm disappointed,
you know too, I was going to be disappointed either way.
(38:41):
I just think, you know, on one hand, we were
going to have to fight. On the other hand, we're
going to have to fight even harder. And you know,
for me, that looks like you know, organizing coming together,
making sure that we stay informed, you know, vet vetting
the sources where we get our information, and you know,
when the government does something that we don't like, rallying
(39:04):
together and making our voices heard and making sure that
you know, we stand up and fight for those things.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Zane, thank you for that, Major Garrett. I guess Zane's
point that now he will organize and five for the
things he believes in. What did the Democrats do from
here now?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
A lot of things, But first I just want to
address Jude's concern expressed a moment ago, because in twenty
twenty two, the Respect for Marriage Act was passed and
signed into law by President Biden. That requires every state
in the country to respect the validity of same sex marriages,
and that's universal. That was passed in response to a
Clarence Thomas footnote in one case questioning the Supreme Court's
(39:47):
constitutional interpretation that the Constitution protected not only same sex
marriage as it did in Obergefeld, but also interracial marriage,
as it did in Loving Reed, Virginia. So Congress saw that,
was alarmed and passed the law and it's been signed
by President Biden that clarifies that status. And I hope
(40:07):
that is of some comfort to Jude. What do Democrats
have to do? Look, this is I've covered national politics, Jeremy.
It's been the great privilege of my life. It's what
I dreamed about being able to do as a child,
and I've been able to do it since nineteen ninety.
And every time there's an election that goes demonstrably in
one direction, the losing party comes to the conclusion, in
(40:27):
all of its emotional, overwrought tension and exhaustion, that it
can't do anything right. Similarly, the winning party suddenly assumes
it can do nothing wrong, and the winning party begins
to overreach, and the losing party begins to re examine itself,
quite and much faster than most Americans appreciate. Things begin
to churn. I was at press conference after press conference
(40:49):
in two thousand and four after John Kerry lost to
George W. Bush, where Democrats were convinced there was no hope,
there was no future. Karl Robe was talking about the
permanent realignment of a Republican majority in the country. In
two thousand and six, Democrats retook Congress, and in two
thousand and eight Barack Obama was elected president. Things can
and do shift and they can happen quickly.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Let's go to Gregory in Houston. Gregory, welcome to the
middle What do you think hopees for fears?
Speaker 4 (41:16):
We always can have hope. But at the same time,
he kind of got a fear, you know, who's in charge.
And like I said, we dealt with him four years
once before, and this four years is gonna be a
little bit more harder, you know, because of the rhetoric,
you know, all the things he kept going. And I
just think like right now that you know, the economy
is doing good, is getting there. It's not where we
(41:37):
want it, but it's getting there. So he's he's, like
I said, he's gonna take over a good economy. It's
gonna make him look good. Everybody gonna be screaming at
Holland about how good they was doing under Trump administration,
realizing that those were Obama economics that he was doing
good under. And after this first year when he put
(41:58):
his economic plan into play, were gonna really see what
Trump is all about. You know.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
I think it's that Colors point. Sorry so sorry to
cut you off. I think to your point, the Harrison Ministry,
the Biden Harris administration really struggled to outline their successes.
You know, the economy, like you said, is doing really
really well right now. They passed a huge infrastructure, but
I feel like voters didn't know about any of that stuff.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
Scott, He's absolutely no, He's absolutely right, and and and
it is it was it, Jeremy, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
Yeah, that's right. Gregory is absolutely right.
Speaker 6 (42:32):
And also tell I'm gonna go back to something that
Major Garrett talked about in terms of the Democrats and
and look, they need to realize if they haven't, that
the realignment in this country not necessary, that it's just
down the line of Democrats and Republicans.
Speaker 5 (42:46):
But there's an ideology.
Speaker 6 (42:48):
There's a realignment of ideology for folks who are struggling
to just keep the lights on every day and making
sure that you are meeting and listening to listening to
those people and not just coming every four years to
the same demographic saying Okay, now we need your support
because we're here for you. You got to do something
(43:08):
starting now in these four years. There's a realignment. You
need to get with it and find out what's going on.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Stella is in Cope, South Carolina. Hi, Stella, what do
you think about the future.
Speaker 15 (43:22):
I'm very optimistic about the future. I supported Carlos Harris,
and when Trump won I was depressed. But then I
realized that perhaps this is an opportunity for America to
revitalize its principles, to remind Trump that we live in
(43:43):
a system by a system of laws, and those laws
govern the president as well as every other individual in
this nation. Trump cannot simply come in and take over
and make changes. I heard Gavin Newsoen talking about trump
proofing California, and I'm sure many other governors are also
(44:05):
trump proofing their states. Organizations, Individuals will trump proof their
actions in order to avoid the kinds of irrational decisions
that Trump might make. So he's not going to be
able to come in and simply change the nation unless
the nation allows him to do it. If every one
of us has to stand up for what's right, what's good,
(44:29):
what's honest, with decent and not allow anyone, not even Trump,
to come in and change that.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Stella Well said, let me have to point out the
irony of her being from a city called Cope.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Hoping Cope Major Garrett though, to sell us point how
much power is the opposition going to have.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Now, well, I want to take on something that she mentioned,
which I think is very important. Trump proofing your state
may in the short term create buffers from some of
the more extreme aspects of a Trump agenda, but it
would also eat away at the cohering nature of a union.
(45:10):
When states begin to act separately and differently in defiance
of the federal system, then you begin to question what
is a union? And is this the United States of America,
or as we called it before the Civil War, the
United States in America.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Rose Scott, We're running out of time in this hour,
but I'm going to give you the last word here
just on a question that I've had as we've been
sort of digesting the election and the results over the
last several years. We've been talking about groups being you know, red, blue, black, white.
In this election, it does seem like class divisions may
(45:52):
have been just as consequential.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
What do you think?
Speaker 5 (45:56):
Yeah, I think that's accurate. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
And I think also too for folks to understand that
when we talk about going to the polls and making
your vote, and I've heard people say, oh, I vote
my heart or you know, I'm going to vote because
of how I'm feeling right now. And we have experts
who always come on and talk about understanding, you know,
the voter from an emotional through emotional lens. And I
(46:21):
always ask people when you are voting, are you voting
for your future? Are you making an investment? Or you
just votify how you feel right now? And I look,
I understand, you know, I totally understand when people are
in there and they're making a decision is about how
they feel. But at the same time, you also have
to say what is the best right, what is best
(46:43):
for this nation moving forward for them? And I'm making
an investment at some time, and that's what I think
that people.
Speaker 5 (46:49):
That's the challenge people have, and I understand that.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
That is Roe Scott at w ABE in Atlanta. We've
also been speaking with Major Garrett, Chief Washington correspondent for
CBS News. Thanks to both of you so much for
joining us on this very busy week. Thanks you bed
a pleasure, and next week one more post election show.
For now, we'll be asking what you learned about the
country from this election. It's not gonna be a quiz
about this hour. We actually want to hear some new things.
As always, Tolliver. They can reach us out.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
At eight four four four Middle. You can call us
at eight four four four six four three through five three,
where you can reach out to listen to the Middle
dot com, where you can sign up for a free
weekly newsletter.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
The Middle is brought to you by Lungnok Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced by
Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, Samburmustas, and John Barth. Our intern
is an Akdessler. Our technical director is Jason Kroft. Thanks
to our podcast audience, our satellite radio listeners, and the
more than four hundred and twenty public radio stations that
are making it possible for people across the country to
listen to the Middle, I'm Jeremy Hobson, and I'll talk
(47:44):
to you next week.
Host
Jeremy Hobson
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Monster: BTK
'Monster: BTK', the newest installment in the 'Monster' franchise, reveals the true story of the Wichita, Kansas serial killer who murdered at least 10 people between 1974 and 1991. Known by the moniker, BTK – Bind Torture Kill, his notoriety was bolstered by the taunting letters he sent to police, and the chilling phone calls he made to media outlets. BTK's identity was finally revealed in 2005 to the shock of his family, his community, and the world. He was the serial killer next door. From Tenderfoot TV & iHeartPodcasts, this is 'Monster: BTK'.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.