February 25, 2025 • 51 mins
On this episode of The Middle we're partnering with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's Cross Country Checkup to broadcast live from Vancouver, British Columbia for a cross-border conversation about Trump's comments on Canada as the 51st State. Jeremy is joined by Cross Country Checkup host Ian Hanomansing, former U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp, and Canadian businesswoman Kevin O'Leary and takes calls from both Canada and the US. #Trump #Trudeau #CBC #Canada #51ststate #border #crossborder
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Middle podcast listeners, It's Jeremy Hobson and me and
Hannah Mancing In. Hannah Mancing, if you listened to yesterday's podcast,
you know, the host of cross Country Checkup at the
CBC in Canada. We're coming to you from Vancouver with
this special edition. This is part two of our question
about your thoughts on President Trump's comments that Canada become
the fifty first state. I know a lot of you
(00:20):
are very angry about that. Some of you maybe liked
that idea. I don't know, but you're about to find
out what our listeners thought when they called in. So
take a listen and enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
What I'd like to see Canada become our fifty first date.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hi, I am you and Hannah man Sing, the host
of cross Country Checkup in Canada.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
There's not a snowballs chance in hell that Canada will
ever be the fifty first state.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And I'm Jeremy Hobson, the host of the Middle in
the US.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
Canada and the United States. That would really be something
you get rid of that artificially drawn line, and it
would also be much better for national security. You don't
forget we basically protect Canada.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You're listening to our two of our cross border conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
The US and Canada have been longtime allies and neighbors.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So when US President Donald Trump began musing and then
doubling down on Canada as the fifty first state, tensions
and anxiety began to grow.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So right now we're taking calls from both sides of
the border across Canada and the United States.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Our question, what do you think of Trump's comments about
Canada becoming the fifty first state.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I don't support Canada becoming the fifty first state because
I am I think I'm more of a patriotic Canadian
now than ten before.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
I'm wondering if this good will between our countries actually
ever did exist.
Speaker 7 (01:41):
Are we actually friends.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
Or are we only there because what they can get
for most.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Rely from Vancouver, Canada, taking calls from both sides of
the US Canada border. Our number is one eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three. That's one
eight eight eight four, one six eight three three three.
Speaker 8 (02:00):
They're a separate country. I'm guessing they don't want to
be the fifty first state, so it's just insanity.
Speaker 9 (02:07):
I've actually read online that some Canadians are in favor
of it, So that was interesting to me that they
would like to be a fifty first date because they're
sick of commune Canada.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Wow, what do you think of that comment? What do
you think of this issue? What do you think of
Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty first state?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Call us at one eight eight eight four one six
eight three three three again one eight eight eight four
one six eight three three three. I mean Hannah Man saying,
and I'm Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
This is a cross border conversation, a co production between
CBC and the Middle.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Ian for listeners just joining us. I'll mention again this
is not an endorsement of the idea of Canada as
a fifty first state. A lot of people have written
in to say we are normalizing Trump's statement, however outrageous
it may be. I'll just note that the Prime Minister
of Canada, Justin Trudeau, has said he thinks Trump is
serious and.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Colin shows like ours. Both the cross country checkup take
on serious, sensitive topics that we think people are talking
about and should have the opportunity to talk about on
the air. Doesn't mean we're promoting it or both sidesing it.
That's also something I saw right online a lot. But
learning about what people are thinking and why on both
(03:18):
sides of the border and on many sides.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Of the issue well, and allowing Americans, by the way,
to have a rare chance to hear from Canadians about
what they think ordinary Canadians, and have ordinary Canadians have
a chance to hear from ordinary Americans about what they
think about this. The other thing I'll say in is
that you know, eight years ago, when Trump first came
in to power, people didn't think he was serious about
a Muslim ban. That happened. They didn't think he was
(03:41):
serious about separating children from their families who came in illegally.
That happened. So it is our job as journalists to
talk about this. And the real upside is, of course,
that we are hearing from We are giving an opportunity
to everyday people on both sides of the border. Eight
eight eight four one six eight three three three is
our number. Let's get to another caller, and I don't
(04:02):
even know who that caller is right now, but if
we've got one, Hello, caller, what's your name? Where are
you calling from?
Speaker 7 (04:11):
Hey?
Speaker 10 (04:11):
Joe?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, Hey, John, are you there?
Speaker 11 (04:14):
Oh, yes, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, this is John. There are callers John scop and Vancouver.
I should say, for people who are watching and listening,
we are juggling a lot of things here on multiple networks.
A computer document in front of us that has a
lot of information on it. John, you're in Vancouver, And
how would your life change, because I think this is
something that you've talked about and you'd like to talk about,
(04:37):
how would your life change if Canada were a state?
Speaker 11 (04:40):
Well, first, I just want to point out that over
ninety percent Ocadians want no part of this, so any
becoming part of the US would be by force, if
they could somehow overcome our own fears resistance. So is
anybody on this program in booking international law and clearly
saying that one country king over another is one hundred
(05:01):
percent of legal I mean, we're going to have a
program next from the Ukrainian Russian border asking how Ukrainians
feel about Russian's friendly proposition to make them part of Russia.
I mean, come on, folks, this is outrageous. I am
a dual citizen, My wife and daughter and I moved
(05:24):
here twenty years ago basically to get out of the
US to make a better life for our daughter. I was,
you know, occasionally an activist in the US, and I
felt bad about leaving. I do what I can from here.
That's why I remained. US citizens like a vote. But
it's just I just find it outrageous that we can
(05:47):
contemplate this without bringing up the fact that we're talking
about insane aggression here.
Speaker 10 (05:53):
Yeah, I'm part of it.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, I mean it. It is so hard, John, for
a lot of people to figure out how to even
react to these comments, because on the one hand, I
know a lot of people who don't even take it
seriously number one. Number two, people who don't want to
give it oxygen or talk about it out loud because
they think by doing that that is going to create
(06:17):
a problem and maybe it'll turn into into into something.
But then there are others who say, listen, this is serious.
He may be serious, and it is important to be
very public about, you know, opposition to it.
Speaker 10 (06:34):
Oh sure, but.
Speaker 11 (06:35):
I think you know, I mean, I don't hear talk
about about international law and the fact that is what
he's talking about is an after war and it should
be looked at it is that, Yeah, very seriously, Yeah,
and that it's an after war and we should be
clearly stating that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, all right, John, thank you very much for your call.
Our number here is one eight eight eight four one
six eight three three three, whichever side of the border
you're on. Jeremy, I was like watching the Indy five
hundred and the pit crew comes in working on a
racing car, and in this case there was an issue
with your computer.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
No, so I'm the visitor here because I'm here in
your home in Vancouver at CVC Vancouver. I'm on the
Wi Fi and it died, so I lost my whole
little thing that tells me who's on the lines.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
We have the wourback Wi Fi that about every forty
five minutes or so. It kicks people out and then
you have to repledge the fact that you're not going
to do anything bad on our wife.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Okay, well, well now I'm back and Scott Hill is
with us from Salt Lake City, Utah, in the United States. Scott,
what do you make of Trump's comments?
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Hey, thanks for having the show. I find it really
interesting to hear from Canadians. I've visited the Western Canada
a couple of times and I really like it.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Up there.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
But I'm what I'm thinking is I wish you guys,
I wish it could be the opposite. You guys, come
down here and get rid of this idiot that we
got in here, and I'll tell you what. Take whatever
he says seriously, because he's really screwing things up down here.
What I really liked though, back during Obamacare, I was
asking Canadian tourists how how they liked their healthcare because
(08:10):
there's so much people down here were saying, oh, it's
no good, it's no good. So I asked nine out
of ten Canadians so that I talked to about it.
They love their healthcare, and thank goodness for Obama. I
got an Obamacare and he actually saved my life with
open heart surgery. And this guy, this guy's got to go.
So so you so you would you would be would
(08:30):
it was the other way.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
But just to be clear, Scott, you're saying you would
if it was the other way around, you'd be happy
if Canada was turning the US into the eleventh province.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
I think I think it would be a better situation, uh,
in a lot of ways with the healthcare and in
a lot of ways, But I still you know I'm American,
so that's a little hard, but I like the way
you guys run things better than we're running them right now,
that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Scott, thank you very much for that call.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And I should point out anyone who's listening in Canada
right now, they may be proud to hear an American
say that Canadians have a better healthcare system, but you know,
each of our countries is imperfect, and there are a
lot of people that would like to see major reforms
in our healthcare, not an American system, but although there's
some that may like that too, but there are many
(09:21):
people who would just like to see a better Canadian
healthcare system. This is a cross border conversation on Cross
Country Checkup and The Middle. Jeremy Hobson the host of
The Middle. We're being heard on the CBC network, also
on NPR stations and on c SPAN television in the
United States. Are number one eight eight eight four one
six eight three three three. Shane McLain is in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
(09:45):
High Shane, Hi, are you good. So we are looking
for various points of view on this program, and there's
been a level of unanimity to this point. Not because
we sought that out, but because that reflects the calls
and online comments that we're getting. But what's your view
of Trump's comments about fifty first state.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I think He's very serious about it. One thing I've
learned over the media since COVID is you know, if
they talk a lot about something over and over, it's
going to happen. I think it'd be a good thing
for Canada.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
You think it would be a good thing for Canada
to be the fifty first state?
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
And so did you say why not.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
We export every thing to them? Anyways? I worked in
the oil sands for major part of my career. Now
I work in agriculture. I know how important the US
is for all. It's like it drove my work, my
whole life, like we can't do without them.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Right, But it's different joined So I feel like there's
going to be a lot of people who are listening,
and I welcome them to call in at eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three. Who would
be shocked that you would so comfortably talk about our country,
(11:07):
Canada giving up its sovereignty.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
We're not free at all?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
In what way are we not free? Shane Shane in
what way are we not free?
Speaker 4 (11:18):
We're not free. I haven't My boy is ten years old.
I have an eight year old daughter and a three
year old. I can't even get a family doctor for them.
How crazy is that when I pay half my taxes,
half my wages in tax and I can't benefit from it.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, so that is a problem. But the lack of
family doctors is definitely a problem in Canada.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I'm not going to fix this. They're sending all our
money away.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, And I mean, I feel like in the United
States there are people that probably also don't have family doctors, right, Well.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
You can it's privatize you can get.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It if you have the money, I guess, or healthcare yeah,
from your work. Okay, Well, Shane, you know I clearly
you're unhappy with with the situation in Canada for you
and uh, and.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
You're willing to see people out here in the last
that support it, Like I see it, it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Who Actually a lot of people among your friends are
people you deal with who actually support the idea of
Canada giving up its sovereignty.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
But I'm from the East coast rigially so, and I
see their views right, Like, it's totally different right, it's
both sides, Canada split, both sides, different views.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Very interesting to hear that, to hear that call in.
And I should note, by the way, that this whole
conversation that was started by President Trump saying this has
kind of flipped Canada politics on its head. And you've
got an election coming up in a matter of months.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, But I mean the other thing, and I mentioned
this earlier, I think when I was talking to David,
from the extent to which there is a unanimity among
political leaders wherever they happen to be on the political spectrum.
The polling I've seen overwhelmingly shows people not only reject
the idea of Canada's the fifty first state, but it
just makes them very unhappy and angry. So yeah, interesting
(13:14):
to hear Shane's point of view. You could tell by
the tone of my voice. I find it surprising. But
this is a program. We want to hear different points
of view, and we can hear yours at eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
The Canada US relationship is most deeply felt along border states,
and today's special is being broadcast in border states like Vermont,
New York, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota. Former Democratic Senator Heidi
Hidekamp represented North Dakota in the Senate from twenty thirteen
to twenty nineteen, coinciding with the first Trump presidency, and
(13:49):
she joins us now from Chicago. Senator, thank you so
much for being here. What was your reaction when you
first heard, and now have heard multiple times Trump say
he wants Canada to be the fifty first eight.
Speaker 8 (14:01):
Well, it was done in the context of also looking
at Panama, also looking at Greenland, and I thought, you know,
we've been You can argue that America has been economically
colonizing the world for a long time, but now we're
actually looking at becoming a colonizing country again. And the
one thing that I know from having served in the
(14:21):
Senate and actually spend spending time with the former president
now President Trump, is that he doesn't say stuff willy nilly.
It's a it's a test to see how far he
can go. And he's serious about Canada becoming the fifty
first date and.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Would he use force do you think to do that?
Or does it economic force or what do you how
do you think you would accomplish that? If he's being
serious about it.
Speaker 8 (14:48):
Well, he's already exerting economic force right, twenty five percent
tariffs and steele, which actually hurts America more than I
think Canada. Canada is a major exporter of energy. If
you take energy out of the next in our Canadian relationship,
we actually have a balance of trade that favors the
United States if you take energy out, and so may
(15:10):
I think that he looks at the as one of
your callers said, at the resources. And I don't know
if he knows that. You know, in the United States,
minerals are owned by individuals unless they're on public land.
In Canada, they're owned by the crown. So maybe he's
after a lot of your minerals. Maybe he's after oil
and gas. I don't know. But it's humorous and it
(15:35):
is dangerous because those of us who live in northern
states like North Dakota, those of us who went to
a college like the University of North Dakota, where you know,
probably ten percent of the student body where Canadians. Some
of my best friends are from Canada, and I think
that we're nervous about people booing our national anthem, which
(15:57):
has never happened in Canada. People feeling like we're predators,
which we're not. The United States is not a predator.
We have a president who wants to push this envelope.
But I would suggest to everybody in Canada you can't
be too vigilant. You know, when I first heard it,
(16:18):
I do a lot of coming commenting for other networks,
and basically I said, you.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Know, he's serious.
Speaker 8 (16:24):
Don't don't pooh pooh this. He is serious. And he
now has put sovereignty on the ballot in Canada.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Why do you think so many of your former colleagues
in the Senate and other and governors have been so
quiet about this so far? Is it just because there
are so many other things that Trump is doing right
now that they're focused on, or are they afraid to
speak up and give it any weight.
Speaker 8 (16:48):
Oh, they hope it goes away. They hope that it
goes away. We haven't heard much about Panama, you know,
since he said that, and so they're like, I can't
deal with that. I can't deal with all of the incoming.
I've got people now in record numbers calling my office,
and I can tell you in the United States, the
Senate switchboard is overwhelmed with people calling, very concerned about
(17:10):
their privacy, very concerned about the cutbacks and national parks,
whatever it looks like. And so you know, this has
fallen to the back burner. And you know it's not
a joke in Canada, but it's it's something that I
think so many members of Congress hope gets forgotten and
left behind.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Trump has said that he feels Canada is ripping the
United States off. What do you think about that? I mean,
and when you think about the economic activity that goes
across the border and how each side benefits from the other.
Speaker 8 (17:41):
Well, I mean, one of the things that I've said
repeatedly is when he talks about these are the worst
trade agreements. I was there when he renegotiated NAFTA into
the USMCA. I mean, this is his trade agreement, and
it's up for renegotiation. And so, in the typical way
that govern men's act, as they say, look, this hasn't
(18:02):
worked for us, let's renegotiate. Let's take a look at
the relationship. But as I said in the beginning, if
you take energy out of the mix, Canada is actually
a very very significant importer of goods and services from
the United States of America, and certainly in states like
Mind a huge trading partner. The border. Cross border trade
(18:23):
that comes from North Dakota to Manitoba and Saskatchewan is overwhelming.
We share the Bakan, you know, when you look at
oil development. When I was in state government in North Dakota,
we did a whole project with Canada on hydraulic fracturing
along with horizontal really, and so we have this long
(18:45):
relationship with Canada that I think is unbreakable because it's
based on mutual trust. It's just when the head of
your country says something as absurd as we think Canada
should be the fifty first state, Yeah, you just cringe
and hope that everybody understands that there will be enormous
(19:06):
pushback if there is any certainly any attempt to exercise
any kind of military intervention to make it happen. I
think he just thinks that he's so popular, he's so
amazing that everybody up in Canada goes, we want that guy.
And I don't think that's true. Based on your calls,
it doesn't sound like that's true.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, and by the way, if we're going by the
North Dakota rules in terms of population, it would be
at least fifteen states for Canada. There's forty million people,
right right.
Speaker 8 (19:36):
I mean, and I doubt that he would want each
province of Canada to come in as a state be
pretty dangerous politically for the Republican Party.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That is US Senator former US Senator Heidi Hidekampa, Democrat,
joining us from Chicago. Senator, thank you very much, you
bet take care and I we did find a high
profile Canadian businessman who doesn't see this as an insult.
We're going to talk with him shortly, but in the
for the moment, our number eight eight eight four one
six eight three three three eight eight eight four one
(20:06):
six eight three three three in our question, what do
you think of Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty
first state?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And you want to take this next caller, Oh, I
can sure.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
David Rovinsky is with us from Burlington, Vermont. David, what
are your thoughts? Are you being impacted by Trump's comments
so far about Canada?
Speaker 12 (20:27):
Well, Hid, good afternoon. While this has affected me actually
professionally because I am a political scientist and an American
political scientist, and for decades I've done research, and I've
written about and I've taught about Canadian politics at American universities.
I'm also the secretary of an academic group called the
(20:50):
Association for cand Studies in the United States, and we
exist to promote case studies at American universities. We have
about a thousand members and what we're going right now
is organizing our biennial conference in Seattle this November, starting
November thirteenth, we usually hope for somewhere around two hundred
(21:10):
to three hundred papers, and we've actually been having a
lot fewer submissions than usual, mostly because a lot of
the Canadians who participate in the conference, who regularly participate
every two years, have told us they're not coming this year,
partly for a number of reasons. Partly it's the Canadian dollar,
Partly it's worried that they are not going to be
(21:33):
able to get across the border easily, and partly that
they do not want to be supporting American conferences. So
it's kind of strange. We are not a political organization,
but it seems that we've hit the point where are
simply doing research on Canada has become a political act
here in the United States, and it's we're taking sides
(21:54):
in politics simply by existing, and that's not our intention,
but we we pick the one. Incidents like this happened
when sing one ridiculous statement sight calling for Canada to
become to be annexed, to be the fifty first date.
As Trump puts it, it's one of the reasons that
we believe our organization. It's important that our story is
(22:15):
that our organization plays an important role in maintaining canad
US relations.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
David, thank you very much for that, and I I'm
glad that he brought up the fact that, you know,
people may not want to travel to the US, because
that is a part of the story that I think
a lot of Americans don't even realize right now, but
that there is kind of a boycott going on by
many Canadians of American goods and American travel.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, a lot of people taking that very seriously. I
have a group of friends who normally never talk about
things political, and I see them usually on the weekend,
and for weeks now they've been talking about how diligently
they've been trying to source Canadian as opposed to American
products and not going down to the United States. We're
into the last half hour of our cross border conversation.
Our number is one eight eight eight four one six
(22:56):
eight three three three. You can also reach us by
going to CBC slash aircheck. Our question, what do you
think of Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty first state?
Carla Jubert is in Joliette, Illinois. Hi Carla, Hi, you
are a Canadian living in the United States, and so
I talked about my circle of friends. What are you
(23:17):
hearing from yours?
Speaker 13 (23:19):
I mean, it's a little bit of a blend.
Speaker 11 (23:21):
I think.
Speaker 14 (23:21):
On the one hand, I have friends who are very
tapped in politically, and we're very concerned. You know, you
never know when to take him seriously and.
Speaker 13 (23:29):
When not to. And I think there's been a lot
of discussion here. But I think there's also, particularly from
the Americans, an effort to make light and to hope
that this is just a joke in a list of long,
blustering political actions by him. And then on the other hand,
I do think there's fear and for me, as the
(23:49):
Canadian over here, they make jokes and we laugh, but I'm.
Speaker 14 (23:53):
Definitely frustrated, feeling very patriotic and insistent that the joke's
only so funny.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, I could see where that could be a little
tiresome after a while. So do you try to convince
your American friends who aren't taking this seriously to start
doing that?
Speaker 13 (24:13):
If I do, I try to convince a lot of
people of a lot of things, I guess, but I
think that I just want them to put it in
the appropriate historical context and to understand that the United States,
you know, is a selllar colony. I'm a historian by trade,
and it has a history of expansionism as policy. It
has a history of westward expansion. When it was at
(24:35):
its height in the eighteen forties through eighteen eighties, they
had ideas like continentalism, right, the idea that the United
States should cover the whole continent. And I thought we
had gotten past that. I think we should have, But
I don't think we should dismiss it as a historic
American political policy that is worthy of our appropriate consternation
(24:59):
at this time.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
So, as a thoughtful Canadian living in the United States
help other Canadians on this the northern side of the border,
how do you think we should be they should be
reacting to Trump's comments?
Speaker 13 (25:14):
I think, on the one hand, another caller already mentioned
this is really an international law issue. Canada is a
proud member of NATO, and NATO nation under attack means
that NATO under attack, which is my way of saying,
I don't think there's actually a great deal of weight
to the threats. I don't think that the United States
(25:34):
is about to go to war with much of continental
Europe and Canada. On the other hand, what it does
mean is he is serious. He is dismissive of our leadership,
our sovereignty, our autonomy, and I think we should take
that aspect seriously for what it means, which is, this
is a man who doesn't take Canada's rights as a
nation seriously, and he deserves our aire and not to
(25:59):
be dismissed. He could do a lot of harm in
pursuit of his high minded or high faluting I mean ideas.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, Carla, the difference between high falutin and high minded
for sure. Thank you very much Jeanne for calling the program. Carla,
thank you. And just to note the Minister of National Defense,
the Canadian Minister of National Defense, Bill Blair, says that
while US President Donald Trump has made concerning comments about
absorbing Canada, they should not be taken as a serious threat.
(26:27):
So that is one of the senior political officials in Canada.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
You know, this is it's been very interesting to see
the difference and hear the difference between callers with many
different views talking to us in a very civil way,
and what has the conversation that happens on social media,
which is a lot angrier. This is one of the
reasons why I think it's great that this opportunity is
being provided on both sides of the border for people
(26:52):
to take part in this discussion. I was thinking, I mean,
after having seen some of the commentary online. The only
time I've ever had seen a Canadian be rude to
me was I was in Montreal. I took a write
on read, which you're not allowed to do there, and
a guy came up on his bike next to me.
He said, do you like knuckle sandwiches? And I was like,
oh god, I'm so sorry I did that. Well, now,
I've seen the online vitriol, but at least we haven't
(27:14):
had that on the show.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I mean, you were reading some of the posts on
x lash Twitter, and I remember yesterday you kind of
read a few of them directed to you, right, and
you said, I wish I hadn't read that.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
You're right, right, we can't read them on the air.
Right now, let's go to Dakota, who's calling from Mississauga, Ontario,
right next to Toronto. Dakota, welcome, And how is this
all making you think about Canada's relationship to the United States.
Speaker 15 (27:40):
Well, you know, I mean, like I've been, I've been
very skeptical progressive for a long time. I'm I'm always
like NDP or Greens in the elections, like just recently
even and I'm originally from BC, from kam Loops, and
I've come on the show a couple of times of
you know, talked, I've taken some very interesting takes for.
Speaker 11 (27:59):
Someone who's progressive.
Speaker 15 (28:00):
But I think that, you know, now's not the time
to be too skeptical of a country's sovereignty like Canada, right.
Speaker 6 (28:08):
We're part of the G seven and we have we
have this power.
Speaker 15 (28:12):
And yet to the United States, Donald Trump's kind of
treating us like, you know, the dirt under his under
his boots, and I think that that's that's not okay.
Speaker 11 (28:21):
And this has kind of changed.
Speaker 15 (28:22):
How I view and how I go about my everyday
life since you know, since coming to university, since Trump's
come in everything like that.
Speaker 6 (28:30):
Originally I was going to go on this.
Speaker 15 (28:32):
I've been wanting to go on this big road trip
from count Specie, which is in the interior British Columbia,
all the way up the Alaska Highway through Jasper up
to Anchorage. And this has been something I've been wanting
to since I've been like fifteen. And my great granny,
who's probably listening right now, high but she she's finally
she's given me her car.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
And I was so excited to do it this summer.
Speaker 15 (28:52):
I was like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go
all the way up there, and I I've had to
tell myself, like this is not going to wants you
for so long, but I just I can't.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You don't want to Nited States, absolutely not.
Speaker 15 (29:03):
I've I've completely switched to buying Canadian products. I've tried
to only buy a Canadian chains. Like I've stopped going to.
Speaker 11 (29:12):
Like like Wendy's and.
Speaker 15 (29:13):
Things like that, So are going to like Harvey's and
and w which is you know, Canadian owned colleage as
a Canadian company now right, so things like that, like
really trying to completely change my habit.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Will say I I had a Tim Horton's coffee today,
just because you know I'm here, I should have it
while I'm here.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yeah, a lot of people would say that's a Brazilian company,
but definitely very much identifies as a Canadian. Right, do
you want to take this?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Let's say, let's squeeze in one more called Catherine's calling
from Glens Falls, New York in the US. Catherine quickly
tell us what do you think about Trump's comments about
Canada's the fifty first state?
Speaker 9 (29:49):
I think it's despicable. We love Canada. We spent our
vacation there last year, my daughter goes there all the time.
We I don't even know what to say about our president.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Do you take it seriously? Do you think he's being serious?
Speaker 16 (30:10):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (30:10):
Him, Yeah, because he's a liar, he's a convicted felon. Yeah,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
What do you say to the Canadian Well, what do
you say to the Canadians who are listening to this
right now? What would your message be to them?
Speaker 13 (30:27):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (30:27):
Please don't hold it against all of us that love Canada.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, Catherine, thank you very much for that. In so
many different calls, so many different perspectives. We've heard from
an American who believes that Trump is serious, but that
maybe Canadians would would like to be part of the
United States, from a Canadian who wants to be part
of the United States. We've heard from, of course, many
(30:52):
Canadians who don't want that respect their own sovereignty, and
also many Americans who are apologetic, just like we just
heard there from New York.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
We have about a minute before we take a break
for our NPR stations, and I just want to ask
you a quick question, Jeremy, about why the interest on
the American side of the border to take this program
and was it a difficult sell to that No.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
And I think the reason is because there is such
an incoming right now from the Trump administration, whether it
is the things that Elon Musk is doing across the
federal government, the firings across the federal government, Trump saying
that he wants to take Gaza, Greenland, the Panama Canal, Canada,
changes in our policy toward Ukraine. And I think that
(31:39):
people are interested in programs like this where we can
zero in on one thing, take the time to talk
about it here from different perspectives, allow ordinary people into
the conversation, and that's what we're trying to do here.
I will just give our phone number one more time
eight eight eight four one six eight three three three
eight eight eight four one six eight three three three,
(32:01):
or you can go to CBC dot Ca slash aircheck.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
This is a cross border conversation. We're down now to
the last twenty minutes, so running out of opportunities to
be on the program, but we still have some slots left,
so hopefully you will do that. Our question, what do
you think of Trump Trump's comments about Canada becoming the
fifty first state. We're live on CBC News Network, CBC Radio,
c SPAN and some NPR stations. A lot of people
(32:27):
are wondering if Trump really is thinking seriously about making
Canada the fifty first state. So we wanted to connect
with someone who has spoken to him and may be
able to give us some insight. Kevin o'larry is a
Canadian who does business on both sides of the border.
He was one of the panelists investors on the CBC
show dragons Den and is currently on the US equivalent
(32:48):
Shark Tank and he's chairman of O'Leary Ventures and joins
us today from Toronto. Hi, Kevin, great to be here.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Now, based on your conversations with President Trump, why does
he keep talking about Canada as the fifty first state.
Speaker 16 (33:04):
He's taking a shot at Trudeau, who dislikes immensely, and Freeland,
who keeps poking at him. I think after twelve years
of Donald Trump, people would understand how he operates. Shooting
barbes at him doesn't work, doesn't help anything right now,
and unfortunately, we have a leadership void in Canada. Federal
(33:25):
government's collapsed, we await a new election, and Trump is
just sitting here watching Trudeau send out these tweets to
him that he doesn't like. It's not helping anything, you know,
justin and I'm sorry to be critical, but it's time
for him to go.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
It really is.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I mean, but as you know, Kevin, he is going.
The government you know, in fairness hasn't collapsed and soon
there will be unfortunately a new leader prime minister.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
Alright.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
That's the problem. Was that what we need someone with
a four year mandate to negotiate with Trump.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
We don't have that. We have a boy.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So Trump's just taking shots all day long. Yeah, and
I'm having a lot of fun with it too, at
our expense.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Do you think do you think, Kevin, that there's any
chance that Trump seriously believes that Canada should become the
fifty first state.
Speaker 16 (34:14):
I've said this countless times about this situation. I've got
great examples to give you right now.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Okay, let's just talk about the noise and the signal.
Speaker 16 (34:25):
The noise is Trumps saying outlandis outrageous, all kinds of
bombastic comments. But what's in the signal, what's the opportunity
is what we should be looking at. And what he's
been saying consistently is that there's a huge economic opportunity
combining the economies.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Now, obviously he's.
Speaker 16 (34:46):
Starting and everybody thought, oh, he's just picking on Canada.
Every single country on Earth right now is on notice,
every single one that there's going to be reciprocal tariffs.
Its the beginning of a giant global negotiation on trade
with the United States. We're just in one country. We
have two and a half percent of the world's GDP.
We've got to obviously figure out a way to negotiate
(35:06):
when we have no leadership. That's going to be very
tricky for the next six, eight, nine, weeks, whatever it's
going to be. But think about this, Instead of getting
into a war of rhet rhetoric with him, which we're
doing right now, why wouldn't we explore the opportunity? And
I would suggest there's three things that we could be
looking at. Every single one of our commodities and resources
(35:30):
and rare earths and minerals is denominated in US dollars,
not just domestically, globally.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Including oil and gas.
Speaker 16 (35:38):
So why don't we move towards a common currency in
North America, which would be very easy to do. Eleven
out of ten Canadians would love to trade their Trudeau
pesos for US dollars.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
We know that already, so it's a very very easy
ride there.
Speaker 16 (35:53):
We could ask for the Bank of Canada to get
two seats on the FED board if we're going to
combine currency so that we have some control over interest rates.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Number two, get rid of all tariffs.
Speaker 16 (36:04):
All north, south and east west in Canada. You can't
buy BC wine in Quebec and all the rest of
this stupid stuff we do to each other in dairy
and all kinds of wheat board pricing.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And whatever it is that we do.
Speaker 16 (36:17):
We get rid of all that, because the guys in Vermont,
for example, are really really unhappy with.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Us on dairy.
Speaker 16 (36:23):
We spend billions of dollars subsidizing dairy and then pour
it down the drain, collapsing the price.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
It's ridiculous what we do to ourselves. But that also
would be solved. So no tariffs.
Speaker 16 (36:34):
And lastly, an EU type passport where we could, once
approved on both sides, an individual would be free to
rome anywhere in North America.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Now.
Speaker 16 (36:44):
The indigenous people of Canada have that right right now,
Many people don't understand that it's a right they really enjoy.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
They move freely over the borders.
Speaker 16 (36:53):
And that's all Canadians should be able to do if
we had that right.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Look, I'm not going to see the opportunity. I'm not
going to challe you on the you know, all the
things you're saying, like Trudeau peso's. I mean, it is
the Canadian dollar, it's not the Trudeau peso. But but
I don't want to lose sight of the main point here,
and I have lots of calls I want to get
to as well. So let me let me say this.
You asked rhetorically, I suppose why wouldn't Canadians do it well?
(37:17):
Right now, a lot of Canadians are really angry at
the United States, especially over the town threats by Trump.
Let me finish, let me finish Kevin. They don't trust
the president. They see what he said about race and
how it changes all the time, how he's threatening to disrupt,
for example, the auto industry that has worked seamlessly for
(37:38):
years in Michigan and Ontario and other places. And I'll
bet you there are people listening right now who are saying,
how could we possibly trust the United States to make
closer economic relationships.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Because there's a common opportunity. That's why.
Speaker 16 (37:53):
Look, I understand people being angry, and it's unfortunate we're
in this void of leadership. We don't have anybody to
go down there and talk to him because we're waiting
to elect a new leader with at least a four
year mandate, we hope. But having said that, having watched
Trump for twelve years, everybody should understand he's not going
to change. And so rather than get angry you don't
(38:16):
get any opportunity out of anger, constructively think of how
the opportunity could benefit Canadians.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
You don't like the word Trudeau Payso.
Speaker 16 (38:25):
The Canadian dollars lost forty one percent of its value.
Canadians can't take their kids to Disneyland.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
It's lost forty one percent of its value since win.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Since the beginning of Trudeau over nine years. Go back
and look at the charts. He wiped out the country.
Speaker 13 (38:42):
He and.
Speaker 16 (38:45):
His policies that stopped capital from coming in. Gerald buts
wrote policies that took away the rights for people to
invest in this country without permits that he never issued.
And if you watch every metric, every.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Economic you know, people say, oh, this is being these
are facts. Deal with it, deal with it. There are facts.
Speaker 16 (39:04):
Yes, it lost forty one percent of value. Yes, we
don't invest in Canada anymore. Yes, CPP won't invest in
its own country. Yes, Ford capital doesn't come here anymore. Yes,
we are very uncompetitive. We're at the bottom of the
G seven. All right, Trudo, you may not like it,
but that's what he did to the country.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah. I'm not saying I like it or don't like it.
I just but I guess the kind of yes, no,
if possible. I just want to get clear in my mind.
Do you think that there's any chance that Donald Trump
actually believes that Canada should be the fifty first state. No, okay.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Is it a negotiating tool?
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Is there an immense opportunity?
Speaker 16 (39:43):
And if people don't get wise to that, anger doesn't
work in a negotiation, it doesn't work.
Speaker 13 (39:50):
Well.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Then sometimes you have to be careful about making the
other party angry.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
It doesn't matter. The point is, don't look at that.
That's not the opportunity. Tell me, if you took a poll,
you have the opportunity to do it. I mean, my goodness,
you talk to Canadians every day.
Speaker 16 (40:07):
Would you trade your Canadian dollar as you call it,
at parity to the US dollar?
Speaker 2 (40:15):
If that was a negotiating chip, would you do it?
How can we say?
Speaker 6 (40:19):
Yes?
Speaker 11 (40:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
All right, let's leave it there, Kevin. Interesting to hear
your point of view. We'd like to hear different points
of views on this program and that's what we're aiming
to do. So thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Take care.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Kevin O'Leary, Canadian business person who does business on both
sides of the border, chairman of Old Leary Ventures, and
he is in Toronto.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Let's get back to the phones. And Marcellus Atkins is
calling from Ottawa, Ontario. Marcellus, you're calling from Ontario, but
you are an American living there. What do you think
about all this?
Speaker 7 (40:51):
Yeah, correct, my wife and I live here in on One.
First of all, thank you for having me on the show.
I really do appreciate an opportunity to add my voice
to this conversation. I am a US military veteran also,
so living here. One of the things in the military is,
you know, we were always taught to respect our commander
(41:15):
in chief, the president, And at this point, I just
want to say, you know, to anyone listening, I do not.
I cannot because the President's supposed to be the best
of us and this is not what we're seeing. I'm
concerning the fifty or fifty first state comments. In my opinion,
I think one of the previous callers nailed it. I'm
(41:35):
saying that this rhetoric is truly it's war it's warfare,
it's verbal warfare. Any country that tells another country either
you give me your sovereignty, you give me your land,
or I'm going to punish your trade routes, I'm gonna
punish you with tariffs and things like that. Those are
violent statements that should not be ignored by the international community,
(42:00):
and I'm hoping that at some point something has done
to kind of tone that Dan I'll know, or a
even a that I'm altogether concerning whether or not I
think he's serious. Only Donald Trump knows how serious he is,
but I believe that Canadians need to take him seriously
because he wants something. We don't know what it is.
In time, he may not fully know what it is,
(42:21):
but at some point I do believe it's going to
come to light what he's after. And so I think
that's in my opinion where you know, Canadians need to
do what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
And well, Marcella's let me let me ask you a
quick follow up, which is, you know, first of all,
thank you for your service to the country. And if
we were to play this out, and we heard from
Senator Heidi Hyde Camp who actually believes that Trump is
serious about this, if he were to somehow take Canada
by force, people like you in the military would be
involved in that. That that's got to be just an
(42:54):
unbelievable thing to even consider American you know, troops being
involved in forcing their way in.
Speaker 7 (43:03):
Yeah, I have a lot of friends in the military
and that our former military members. We've had these conversations.
We're just dumbfounded. We're going what would that even look like?
I mean, would it look similar to the Civil War
where you've got, you know, a civil war inside of America,
We've got troops firing on civilians. And I'm not trying
to amplify it. I'm just saying, what would that even
(43:25):
look like? To have these nations because we're so intertwined,
how would that even play out? As I'm with you
and my family, we were talking about you know, what
are we going to do if it comes to that,
or we're gonna you know, stay here, head out fight.
I mean, I'll fight alongside Canada. I'm telling you right now.
We have a Canadian flag flying outside my home right
(43:45):
now to show solidarity. And it's not that I'm turning
my back on my country. I'm turning my back on
Donald Trump. He is non representative of me. And if
I could just quickly say one thing to Canadians. First
of all, he does not speak for all Americans, so
please understand that as you're dealing with us, we are
not necessarily represented by this man. But additionally, both I
(44:10):
think Jeremy I don't know.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
If you have children.
Speaker 7 (44:12):
I know and I think your grandfather is what I
saw online, which is congratulations.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 7 (44:17):
I'm sure, yeah you, I'm sure will be teaching your
kid to protect themselves against people who are trying to
force them to do something they don't want to do.
And one of the greatest things we can do is
say no. And I would say to all Canadians, no
means no. Donald Trump understands exactly what that means in
his personal life, his professional life. No means no, don't
(44:39):
keep joking, don't keep asking. I told you no. Stop
That I think needs to be the Canadian position is
no means no.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
We're not giving in stop Marcellis. Thank you very much
for that call.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
I love the fact he's playing a Canadian flag in
the United States or I guess he's in Audiwa. Now
he's in an Americans living in Autawa. But still it's
very interesting. And anyone who invokes my granddaughter in the
conversation that gets extra.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Trying to get over that you look way too young
to be a grandfather.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
It's all it's all about good lighting. So we are
in the last few minutes of the program here, so
let's try to squeeze in a couple of calls. So
an apology ahead of time to the people we're going
to go to, because these will be quick. Eric Emmert
is in Ithaca, New York, and Eric, how are you
reacting to Trump's comments?
Speaker 6 (45:28):
I thank you for taking my call. I don't like
the way things are going, but I do want to
say I think that the US and Canada should become
one country. Thought that for many years.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
I but I mean, how would you How would you
feel about the United States becoming part of Canada?
Speaker 6 (45:47):
That's impossible.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
So when you say one country, you mean Canada becoming
part of the States. But you know, there are a
lot of people up here, in fact, I would say
the vast majority who just find that absolutely un hannibal
even to hear the sentence.
Speaker 6 (46:03):
I understand that, and I have sympathy for their way
of life. I've spent a great deal of time in
Toronto and I'm in Montreal at the moment. It's a
great country, there's all.
Speaker 11 (46:18):
I mean.
Speaker 6 (46:18):
It's a great city. Montreal is wonderful Toronto, but I
feel like it we are being taken advantage of in
the fact that, for example, people from Ontario come to
Buffalo to work very frequently, but almost no one is
able to come from the Buffalo area to Ontario because
(46:42):
of the restrictions placed unemployment.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that's I
don't know if that's true, Eric, and I'd be curious
to know what the restrictions are. But people can do
their fact checking online after the program, because we have
just a couple of minutes left, and I think maybe Jeremy,
we can do one.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
More calls, one more call, and we'll well, well, you
know what, We'll end it with the Canadian caller. I
think that's fair since we're talking about Canada becoming the
fifty first state in this conversation, or at least Trump's
comments about it. Derek is in Saint Albert's Alberta, Derek,
what do you think?
Speaker 16 (47:14):
Hi?
Speaker 10 (47:14):
Thanks for having me on. I have a major problem
with Donald Trump with what he's saying. I think it's
extremely dangerous and it's reckless. He's never going to be
able to annex Canada. Like we have several jurisdictions and
provinces and territories, but we also have treaties with the
indigenous people's like, there's eleven different treaties that span multiple provinces.
(47:37):
You're never going to get a buy in from every
every just jurisdiction that way in order to make a move.
I don't think you would even get any buy in
from any of the indigenous people. So I don't think
it could happen personally.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Has it changed your relationship with the United States at all?
Of you started boycotting any goods? Have you, you know,
changed any travel plans anything like that.
Speaker 10 (48:00):
No, not for me, not like that. I'm like, I
you know, it just it's you know, it's a president
and his staff who are I don't know if it's
a joke or if it's a bargaining tactic that they have,
But I understand American people are American people. I love
both countries, but I do not want to be an American. However,
I will continue to trade with them and buy their
(48:22):
stuff even if there's tariffs put in place. If I
have my preferences. You know, it's just the way it is.
I'm not I'm not going to change what I'm doing,
but it's I just think it's extremely reckless for the
president to be doing that because he's he's really eroding away,
you know, centuries or decades worth of of you know,
(48:44):
goodwill between the two countries.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
And what do you make of Kevin O'Leary's comments that
we heard that basically this is a negotiating tactic and
that Canada should want a stronger and deeper economic relationship
with the United States.
Speaker 10 (48:58):
I agree with him a wholeheart. That's what Donald Trump does.
He'll say something, he gets everybody running in circles, and
then when the dust settles, his real agenda comes out,
but everybody's He makes you dance and then he wants
what he wants. That's Kevin hit the nail on the head.
I mean, he's he went off a little politically on it,
(49:19):
but you know, we'll leave it at that. But you know,
Kevin knows him well.
Speaker 13 (49:25):
So.
Speaker 10 (49:26):
But that's what Donald did the first four years he
was the president. That's what he's going to do for
this four years.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Derek, thank you very much for that call.
Speaker 10 (49:35):
All right, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Well, that is almost all the time we have today,
thanks to everyone who called and also reached out to
us online. Into my co host from the middle, Jeremy Hobson,
once again, second time we've done co production. The time
before was from Detroit just before the election. Here we
do it again in Vancouver. It's been fantastic sharing a
studio with you.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Absolutely, it has been a great pleasure. I want to
thank a couple of people who made a pot well,
because this came together in about ten days from like
beginning to actual show. John Barth, my great colleague, who
helped us get on c SPAN, our friends at c
SPAN who worked very quickly to get this on television
in the United States, and Jay Herrera at NPR for
(50:18):
helping us get this on one hundred and seventy NPR
stations across the United States. That's not easy to do.
We managed to do it. Hopefully they were happy with it,
and thanks to all of you who called in. By
the way, we do our show The Middle every single week.
You can find it on the iHeart app or wherever
you listen to podcasts to Search for the Middle with
(50:39):
Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
And Richard Goddard is the senior producer of Cross Country Checkup.
This was his brain child to do that for us
so in Detroit and to do this show again, and
he deserves all the kudos and bears all the scars
that are involved in putting on a program like this,
and one of my favorite parts about doing these shows,
besides working with you, is the funky middle.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Here it is. We're gonna let the middle music play
us out. Thank you so much for listening to a
cross border conversation.
Hey, Middle podcast listeners, It's Jeremy Hobson and me and
Hannah Mancing In. Hannah Mancing, if you listened to yesterday's podcast,
you know, the host of cross Country Checkup at the
CBC in Canada. We're coming to you from Vancouver with
this special edition. This is part two of our question
about your thoughts on President Trump's comments that Canada become
the fifty first state. I know a lot of you
(00:20):
are very angry about that. Some of you maybe liked
that idea. I don't know, but you're about to find
out what our listeners thought when they called in. So
take a listen and enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
What I'd like to see Canada become our fifty first date.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hi, I am you and Hannah man Sing, the host
of cross Country Checkup in Canada.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
There's not a snowballs chance in hell that Canada will
ever be the fifty first state.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And I'm Jeremy Hobson, the host of the Middle in
the US.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
Canada and the United States. That would really be something
you get rid of that artificially drawn line, and it
would also be much better for national security. You don't
forget we basically protect Canada.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
You're listening to our two of our cross border conversation.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
The US and Canada have been longtime allies and neighbors.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So when US President Donald Trump began musing and then
doubling down on Canada as the fifty first state, tensions
and anxiety began to grow.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So right now we're taking calls from both sides of
the border across Canada and the United States.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Our question, what do you think of Trump's comments about
Canada becoming the fifty first state.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I don't support Canada becoming the fifty first state because
I am I think I'm more of a patriotic Canadian
now than ten before.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
I'm wondering if this good will between our countries actually
ever did exist.
Speaker 7 (01:41):
Are we actually friends.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
Or are we only there because what they can get
for most.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Rely from Vancouver, Canada, taking calls from both sides of
the US Canada border. Our number is one eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three. That's one
eight eight eight four, one six eight three three three.
Speaker 8 (02:00):
They're a separate country. I'm guessing they don't want to
be the fifty first state, so it's just insanity.
Speaker 9 (02:07):
I've actually read online that some Canadians are in favor
of it, So that was interesting to me that they
would like to be a fifty first date because they're
sick of commune Canada.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Wow, what do you think of that comment? What do
you think of this issue? What do you think of
Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty first state?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Call us at one eight eight eight four one six
eight three three three again one eight eight eight four
one six eight three three three. I mean Hannah Man saying,
and I'm Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
This is a cross border conversation, a co production between
CBC and the Middle.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Ian for listeners just joining us. I'll mention again this
is not an endorsement of the idea of Canada as
a fifty first state. A lot of people have written
in to say we are normalizing Trump's statement, however outrageous
it may be. I'll just note that the Prime Minister
of Canada, Justin Trudeau, has said he thinks Trump is
serious and.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Colin shows like ours. Both the cross country checkup take
on serious, sensitive topics that we think people are talking
about and should have the opportunity to talk about on
the air. Doesn't mean we're promoting it or both sidesing it.
That's also something I saw right online a lot. But
learning about what people are thinking and why on both
(03:18):
sides of the border and on many sides.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Of the issue well, and allowing Americans, by the way,
to have a rare chance to hear from Canadians about
what they think ordinary Canadians, and have ordinary Canadians have
a chance to hear from ordinary Americans about what they
think about this. The other thing I'll say in is
that you know, eight years ago, when Trump first came
in to power, people didn't think he was serious about
a Muslim ban. That happened. They didn't think he was
(03:41):
serious about separating children from their families who came in illegally.
That happened. So it is our job as journalists to
talk about this. And the real upside is, of course,
that we are hearing from We are giving an opportunity
to everyday people on both sides of the border. Eight
eight eight four one six eight three three three is
our number. Let's get to another caller, and I don't
(04:02):
even know who that caller is right now, but if
we've got one, Hello, caller, what's your name? Where are
you calling from?
Speaker 7 (04:11):
Hey?
Speaker 10 (04:11):
Joe?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, Hey, John, are you there?
Speaker 11 (04:14):
Oh, yes, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yeah, this is John. There are callers John scop and Vancouver.
I should say, for people who are watching and listening,
we are juggling a lot of things here on multiple networks.
A computer document in front of us that has a
lot of information on it. John, you're in Vancouver, And
how would your life change, because I think this is
something that you've talked about and you'd like to talk about,
(04:37):
how would your life change if Canada were a state?
Speaker 11 (04:40):
Well, first, I just want to point out that over
ninety percent Ocadians want no part of this, so any
becoming part of the US would be by force, if
they could somehow overcome our own fears resistance. So is
anybody on this program in booking international law and clearly
saying that one country king over another is one hundred
(05:01):
percent of legal I mean, we're going to have a
program next from the Ukrainian Russian border asking how Ukrainians
feel about Russian's friendly proposition to make them part of Russia.
I mean, come on, folks, this is outrageous. I am
a dual citizen, My wife and daughter and I moved
(05:24):
here twenty years ago basically to get out of the
US to make a better life for our daughter. I was,
you know, occasionally an activist in the US, and I
felt bad about leaving. I do what I can from here.
That's why I remained. US citizens like a vote. But
it's just I just find it outrageous that we can
(05:47):
contemplate this without bringing up the fact that we're talking
about insane aggression here.
Speaker 10 (05:53):
Yeah, I'm part of it.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, I mean it. It is so hard, John, for
a lot of people to figure out how to even
react to these comments, because on the one hand, I
know a lot of people who don't even take it
seriously number one. Number two, people who don't want to
give it oxygen or talk about it out loud because
they think by doing that that is going to create
(06:17):
a problem and maybe it'll turn into into into something.
But then there are others who say, listen, this is serious.
He may be serious, and it is important to be
very public about, you know, opposition to it.
Speaker 10 (06:34):
Oh sure, but.
Speaker 11 (06:35):
I think you know, I mean, I don't hear talk
about about international law and the fact that is what
he's talking about is an after war and it should
be looked at it is that, Yeah, very seriously, Yeah,
and that it's an after war and we should be
clearly stating that.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, all right, John, thank you very much for your call.
Our number here is one eight eight eight four one
six eight three three three, whichever side of the border
you're on. Jeremy, I was like watching the Indy five
hundred and the pit crew comes in working on a
racing car, and in this case there was an issue
with your computer.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
No, so I'm the visitor here because I'm here in
your home in Vancouver at CVC Vancouver. I'm on the
Wi Fi and it died, so I lost my whole
little thing that tells me who's on the lines.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
We have the wourback Wi Fi that about every forty
five minutes or so. It kicks people out and then
you have to repledge the fact that you're not going
to do anything bad on our wife.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Okay, well, well now I'm back and Scott Hill is
with us from Salt Lake City, Utah, in the United States. Scott,
what do you make of Trump's comments?
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Hey, thanks for having the show. I find it really
interesting to hear from Canadians. I've visited the Western Canada
a couple of times and I really like it.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Up there.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
But I'm what I'm thinking is I wish you guys,
I wish it could be the opposite. You guys, come
down here and get rid of this idiot that we
got in here, and I'll tell you what. Take whatever
he says seriously, because he's really screwing things up down here.
What I really liked though, back during Obamacare, I was
asking Canadian tourists how how they liked their healthcare because
(08:10):
there's so much people down here were saying, oh, it's
no good, it's no good. So I asked nine out
of ten Canadians so that I talked to about it.
They love their healthcare, and thank goodness for Obama. I
got an Obamacare and he actually saved my life with
open heart surgery. And this guy, this guy's got to go.
So so you so you would you would be would
(08:30):
it was the other way.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
But just to be clear, Scott, you're saying you would
if it was the other way around, you'd be happy
if Canada was turning the US into the eleventh province.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
I think I think it would be a better situation, uh,
in a lot of ways with the healthcare and in
a lot of ways, But I still you know I'm American,
so that's a little hard, but I like the way
you guys run things better than we're running them right now,
that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Scott, thank you very much for that call.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And I should point out anyone who's listening in Canada
right now, they may be proud to hear an American
say that Canadians have a better healthcare system, but you know,
each of our countries is imperfect, and there are a
lot of people that would like to see major reforms
in our healthcare, not an American system, but although there's
some that may like that too, but there are many
(09:21):
people who would just like to see a better Canadian
healthcare system. This is a cross border conversation on Cross
Country Checkup and The Middle. Jeremy Hobson the host of
The Middle. We're being heard on the CBC network, also
on NPR stations and on c SPAN television in the
United States. Are number one eight eight eight four one
six eight three three three. Shane McLain is in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
(09:45):
High Shane, Hi, are you good. So we are looking
for various points of view on this program, and there's
been a level of unanimity to this point. Not because
we sought that out, but because that reflects the calls
and online comments that we're getting. But what's your view
of Trump's comments about fifty first state.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I think He's very serious about it. One thing I've
learned over the media since COVID is you know, if
they talk a lot about something over and over, it's
going to happen. I think it'd be a good thing
for Canada.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
You think it would be a good thing for Canada
to be the fifty first state?
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
And so did you say why not.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
We export every thing to them? Anyways? I worked in
the oil sands for major part of my career. Now
I work in agriculture. I know how important the US
is for all. It's like it drove my work, my
whole life, like we can't do without them.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Right, But it's different joined So I feel like there's
going to be a lot of people who are listening,
and I welcome them to call in at eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three. Who would
be shocked that you would so comfortably talk about our country,
(11:07):
Canada giving up its sovereignty.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
We're not free at all?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
In what way are we not free? Shane Shane in
what way are we not free?
Speaker 4 (11:18):
We're not free. I haven't My boy is ten years old.
I have an eight year old daughter and a three
year old. I can't even get a family doctor for them.
How crazy is that when I pay half my taxes,
half my wages in tax and I can't benefit from it.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, so that is a problem. But the lack of
family doctors is definitely a problem in Canada.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I'm not going to fix this. They're sending all our
money away.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, And I mean, I feel like in the United
States there are people that probably also don't have family doctors, right, Well.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
You can it's privatize you can get.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It if you have the money, I guess, or healthcare yeah,
from your work. Okay, Well, Shane, you know I clearly
you're unhappy with with the situation in Canada for you
and uh, and.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
You're willing to see people out here in the last
that support it, Like I see it, it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Who Actually a lot of people among your friends are
people you deal with who actually support the idea of
Canada giving up its sovereignty.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
But I'm from the East coast rigially so, and I
see their views right, Like, it's totally different right, it's
both sides, Canada split, both sides, different views.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Very interesting to hear that, to hear that call in.
And I should note, by the way, that this whole
conversation that was started by President Trump saying this has
kind of flipped Canada politics on its head. And you've
got an election coming up in a matter of months.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, But I mean the other thing, and I mentioned
this earlier, I think when I was talking to David,
from the extent to which there is a unanimity among
political leaders wherever they happen to be on the political spectrum.
The polling I've seen overwhelmingly shows people not only reject
the idea of Canada's the fifty first state, but it
just makes them very unhappy and angry. So yeah, interesting
(13:14):
to hear Shane's point of view. You could tell by
the tone of my voice. I find it surprising. But
this is a program. We want to hear different points
of view, and we can hear yours at eight eight
eight four one six eight three three three.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
The Canada US relationship is most deeply felt along border states,
and today's special is being broadcast in border states like Vermont,
New York, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota. Former Democratic Senator Heidi
Hidekamp represented North Dakota in the Senate from twenty thirteen
to twenty nineteen, coinciding with the first Trump presidency, and
(13:49):
she joins us now from Chicago. Senator, thank you so
much for being here. What was your reaction when you
first heard, and now have heard multiple times Trump say
he wants Canada to be the fifty first eight.
Speaker 8 (14:01):
Well, it was done in the context of also looking
at Panama, also looking at Greenland, and I thought, you know,
we've been You can argue that America has been economically
colonizing the world for a long time, but now we're
actually looking at becoming a colonizing country again. And the
one thing that I know from having served in the
(14:21):
Senate and actually spend spending time with the former president
now President Trump, is that he doesn't say stuff willy nilly.
It's a it's a test to see how far he
can go. And he's serious about Canada becoming the fifty
first date and.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Would he use force do you think to do that?
Or does it economic force or what do you how
do you think you would accomplish that? If he's being
serious about it.
Speaker 8 (14:48):
Well, he's already exerting economic force right, twenty five percent
tariffs and steele, which actually hurts America more than I
think Canada. Canada is a major exporter of energy. If
you take energy out of the next in our Canadian relationship,
we actually have a balance of trade that favors the
United States if you take energy out, and so may
(15:10):
I think that he looks at the as one of
your callers said, at the resources. And I don't know
if he knows that. You know, in the United States,
minerals are owned by individuals unless they're on public land.
In Canada, they're owned by the crown. So maybe he's
after a lot of your minerals. Maybe he's after oil
and gas. I don't know. But it's humorous and it
(15:35):
is dangerous because those of us who live in northern
states like North Dakota, those of us who went to
a college like the University of North Dakota, where you know,
probably ten percent of the student body where Canadians. Some
of my best friends are from Canada, and I think
that we're nervous about people booing our national anthem, which
(15:57):
has never happened in Canada. People feeling like we're predators,
which we're not. The United States is not a predator.
We have a president who wants to push this envelope.
But I would suggest to everybody in Canada you can't
be too vigilant. You know, when I first heard it,
(16:18):
I do a lot of coming commenting for other networks,
and basically I said, you.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Know, he's serious.
Speaker 8 (16:24):
Don't don't pooh pooh this. He is serious. And he
now has put sovereignty on the ballot in Canada.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Why do you think so many of your former colleagues
in the Senate and other and governors have been so
quiet about this so far? Is it just because there
are so many other things that Trump is doing right
now that they're focused on, or are they afraid to
speak up and give it any weight.
Speaker 8 (16:48):
Oh, they hope it goes away. They hope that it
goes away. We haven't heard much about Panama, you know,
since he said that, and so they're like, I can't
deal with that. I can't deal with all of the incoming.
I've got people now in record numbers calling my office,
and I can tell you in the United States, the
Senate switchboard is overwhelmed with people calling, very concerned about
(17:10):
their privacy, very concerned about the cutbacks and national parks,
whatever it looks like. And so you know, this has
fallen to the back burner. And you know it's not
a joke in Canada, but it's it's something that I
think so many members of Congress hope gets forgotten and
left behind.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Trump has said that he feels Canada is ripping the
United States off. What do you think about that? I mean,
and when you think about the economic activity that goes
across the border and how each side benefits from the other.
Speaker 8 (17:41):
Well, I mean, one of the things that I've said
repeatedly is when he talks about these are the worst
trade agreements. I was there when he renegotiated NAFTA into
the USMCA. I mean, this is his trade agreement, and
it's up for renegotiation. And so, in the typical way
that govern men's act, as they say, look, this hasn't
(18:02):
worked for us, let's renegotiate. Let's take a look at
the relationship. But as I said in the beginning, if
you take energy out of the mix, Canada is actually
a very very significant importer of goods and services from
the United States of America, and certainly in states like
Mind a huge trading partner. The border. Cross border trade
(18:23):
that comes from North Dakota to Manitoba and Saskatchewan is overwhelming.
We share the Bakan, you know, when you look at
oil development. When I was in state government in North Dakota,
we did a whole project with Canada on hydraulic fracturing
along with horizontal really, and so we have this long
(18:45):
relationship with Canada that I think is unbreakable because it's
based on mutual trust. It's just when the head of
your country says something as absurd as we think Canada
should be the fifty first state, Yeah, you just cringe
and hope that everybody understands that there will be enormous
(19:06):
pushback if there is any certainly any attempt to exercise
any kind of military intervention to make it happen. I
think he just thinks that he's so popular, he's so
amazing that everybody up in Canada goes, we want that guy.
And I don't think that's true. Based on your calls,
it doesn't sound like that's true.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well, and by the way, if we're going by the
North Dakota rules in terms of population, it would be
at least fifteen states for Canada. There's forty million people,
right right.
Speaker 8 (19:36):
I mean, and I doubt that he would want each
province of Canada to come in as a state be
pretty dangerous politically for the Republican Party.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That is US Senator former US Senator Heidi Hidekampa, Democrat,
joining us from Chicago. Senator, thank you very much, you
bet take care and I we did find a high
profile Canadian businessman who doesn't see this as an insult.
We're going to talk with him shortly, but in the
for the moment, our number eight eight eight four one
six eight three three three eight eight eight four one
(20:06):
six eight three three three in our question, what do
you think of Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty
first state?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And you want to take this next caller, Oh, I
can sure.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
David Rovinsky is with us from Burlington, Vermont. David, what
are your thoughts? Are you being impacted by Trump's comments
so far about Canada?
Speaker 12 (20:27):
Well, Hid, good afternoon. While this has affected me actually
professionally because I am a political scientist and an American
political scientist, and for decades I've done research, and I've
written about and I've taught about Canadian politics at American universities.
I'm also the secretary of an academic group called the
(20:50):
Association for cand Studies in the United States, and we
exist to promote case studies at American universities. We have
about a thousand members and what we're going right now
is organizing our biennial conference in Seattle this November, starting
November thirteenth, we usually hope for somewhere around two hundred
(21:10):
to three hundred papers, and we've actually been having a
lot fewer submissions than usual, mostly because a lot of
the Canadians who participate in the conference, who regularly participate
every two years, have told us they're not coming this year,
partly for a number of reasons. Partly it's the Canadian dollar,
Partly it's worried that they are not going to be
(21:33):
able to get across the border easily, and partly that
they do not want to be supporting American conferences. So
it's kind of strange. We are not a political organization,
but it seems that we've hit the point where are
simply doing research on Canada has become a political act
here in the United States, and it's we're taking sides
(21:54):
in politics simply by existing, and that's not our intention,
but we we pick the one. Incidents like this happened
when sing one ridiculous statement sight calling for Canada to
become to be annexed, to be the fifty first date.
As Trump puts it, it's one of the reasons that
we believe our organization. It's important that our story is
(22:15):
that our organization plays an important role in maintaining canad
US relations.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
David, thank you very much for that, and I I'm
glad that he brought up the fact that, you know,
people may not want to travel to the US, because
that is a part of the story that I think
a lot of Americans don't even realize right now, but
that there is kind of a boycott going on by
many Canadians of American goods and American travel.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, a lot of people taking that very seriously. I
have a group of friends who normally never talk about
things political, and I see them usually on the weekend,
and for weeks now they've been talking about how diligently
they've been trying to source Canadian as opposed to American
products and not going down to the United States. We're
into the last half hour of our cross border conversation.
Our number is one eight eight eight four one six
(22:56):
eight three three three. You can also reach us by
going to CBC slash aircheck. Our question, what do you
think of Trump's comments about Canada becoming the fifty first state?
Carla Jubert is in Joliette, Illinois. Hi Carla, Hi, you
are a Canadian living in the United States, and so
I talked about my circle of friends. What are you
(23:17):
hearing from yours?
Speaker 13 (23:19):
I mean, it's a little bit of a blend.
Speaker 11 (23:21):
I think.
Speaker 14 (23:21):
On the one hand, I have friends who are very
tapped in politically, and we're very concerned. You know, you
never know when to take him seriously and.
Speaker 13 (23:29):
When not to. And I think there's been a lot
of discussion here. But I think there's also, particularly from
the Americans, an effort to make light and to hope
that this is just a joke in a list of long,
blustering political actions by him. And then on the other hand,
I do think there's fear and for me, as the
(23:49):
Canadian over here, they make jokes and we laugh, but I'm.
Speaker 14 (23:53):
Definitely frustrated, feeling very patriotic and insistent that the joke's
only so funny.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, I could see where that could be a little
tiresome after a while. So do you try to convince
your American friends who aren't taking this seriously to start
doing that?
Speaker 13 (24:13):
If I do, I try to convince a lot of
people of a lot of things, I guess, but I
think that I just want them to put it in
the appropriate historical context and to understand that the United States,
you know, is a selllar colony. I'm a historian by trade,
and it has a history of expansionism as policy. It
has a history of westward expansion. When it was at
(24:35):
its height in the eighteen forties through eighteen eighties, they
had ideas like continentalism, right, the idea that the United
States should cover the whole continent. And I thought we
had gotten past that. I think we should have, But
I don't think we should dismiss it as a historic
American political policy that is worthy of our appropriate consternation
(24:59):
at this time.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
So, as a thoughtful Canadian living in the United States
help other Canadians on this the northern side of the border,
how do you think we should be they should be
reacting to Trump's comments?
Speaker 13 (25:14):
I think, on the one hand, another caller already mentioned
this is really an international law issue. Canada is a
proud member of NATO, and NATO nation under attack means
that NATO under attack, which is my way of saying,
I don't think there's actually a great deal of weight
to the threats. I don't think that the United States
(25:34):
is about to go to war with much of continental
Europe and Canada. On the other hand, what it does
mean is he is serious. He is dismissive of our leadership,
our sovereignty, our autonomy, and I think we should take
that aspect seriously for what it means, which is, this
is a man who doesn't take Canada's rights as a
nation seriously, and he deserves our aire and not to
(25:59):
be dismissed. He could do a lot of harm in
pursuit of his high minded or high faluting I mean ideas.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, Carla, the difference between high falutin and high minded
for sure. Thank you very much Jeanne for calling the program. Carla,
thank you. And just to note the Minister of National Defense,
the Canadian Minister of National Defense, Bill Blair, says that
while US President Donald Trump has made concerning comments about
absorbing Canada, they should not be taken as a serious threat.
(26:27):
So that is one of the senior political officials in Canada.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
You know, this is it's been very interesting to see
the difference and hear the difference between callers with many
different views talking to us in a very civil way,
and what has the conversation that happens on social media,
which is a lot angrier. This is one of the
reasons why I think it's great that this opportunity is
being provided on both sides of the border for people
(26:52):
to take part in this discussion. I was thinking, I mean,
after having seen some of the commentary online. The only
time I've ever had seen a Canadian be rude to
me was I was in Montreal. I took a write
on read, which you're not allowed to do there, and
a guy came up on his bike next to me.
He said, do you like knuckle sandwiches? And I was like,
oh god, I'm so sorry I did that. Well, now,
I've seen the online vitriol, but at least we haven't
(27:14):
had that on the show.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I mean, you were reading some of the posts on
x lash Twitter, and I remember yesterday you kind of
read a few of them directed to you, right, and
you said, I wish I hadn't read that.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
You're right, right, we can't read them on the air.
Right now, let's go to Dakota, who's calling from Mississauga, Ontario,
right next to Toronto. Dakota, welcome, And how is this
all making you think about Canada's relationship to the United States.
Speaker 15 (27:40):
Well, you know, I mean, like I've been, I've been
very skeptical progressive for a long time. I'm I'm always
like NDP or Greens in the elections, like just recently
even and I'm originally from BC, from kam Loops, and
I've come on the show a couple of times of
you know, talked, I've taken some very interesting takes for.
Speaker 11 (27:59):
Someone who's progressive.
Speaker 15 (28:00):
But I think that, you know, now's not the time
to be too skeptical of a country's sovereignty like Canada, right.
Speaker 6 (28:08):
We're part of the G seven and we have we
have this power.
Speaker 15 (28:12):
And yet to the United States, Donald Trump's kind of
treating us like, you know, the dirt under his under
his boots, and I think that that's that's not okay.
Speaker 11 (28:21):
And this has kind of changed.
Speaker 15 (28:22):
How I view and how I go about my everyday
life since you know, since coming to university, since Trump's
come in everything like that.
Speaker 6 (28:30):
Originally I was going to go on this.
Speaker 15 (28:32):
I've been wanting to go on this big road trip
from count Specie, which is in the interior British Columbia,
all the way up the Alaska Highway through Jasper up
to Anchorage. And this has been something I've been wanting
to since I've been like fifteen. And my great granny,
who's probably listening right now, high but she she's finally
she's given me her car.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
And I was so excited to do it this summer.
Speaker 15 (28:52):
I was like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go
all the way up there, and I I've had to
tell myself, like this is not going to wants you
for so long, but I just I can't.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You don't want to Nited States, absolutely not.
Speaker 15 (29:03):
I've I've completely switched to buying Canadian products. I've tried
to only buy a Canadian chains. Like I've stopped going to.
Speaker 11 (29:12):
Like like Wendy's and.
Speaker 15 (29:13):
Things like that, So are going to like Harvey's and
and w which is you know, Canadian owned colleage as
a Canadian company now right, so things like that, like
really trying to completely change my habit.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Will say I I had a Tim Horton's coffee today,
just because you know I'm here, I should have it
while I'm here.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yeah, a lot of people would say that's a Brazilian company,
but definitely very much identifies as a Canadian. Right, do
you want to take this?
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Let's say, let's squeeze in one more called Catherine's calling
from Glens Falls, New York in the US. Catherine quickly
tell us what do you think about Trump's comments about
Canada's the fifty first state?
Speaker 9 (29:49):
I think it's despicable. We love Canada. We spent our
vacation there last year, my daughter goes there all the time.
We I don't even know what to say about our president.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Do you take it seriously? Do you think he's being serious?
Speaker 16 (30:10):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (30:10):
Him, Yeah, because he's a liar, he's a convicted felon. Yeah,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
What do you say to the Canadian Well, what do
you say to the Canadians who are listening to this
right now? What would your message be to them?
Speaker 13 (30:27):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (30:27):
Please don't hold it against all of us that love Canada.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, Catherine, thank you very much for that. In so
many different calls, so many different perspectives. We've heard from
an American who believes that Trump is serious, but that
maybe Canadians would would like to be part of the
United States, from a Canadian who wants to be part
of the United States. We've heard from, of course, many
(30:52):
Canadians who don't want that respect their own sovereignty, and
also many Americans who are apologetic, just like we just
heard there from New York.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
We have about a minute before we take a break
for our NPR stations, and I just want to ask
you a quick question, Jeremy, about why the interest on
the American side of the border to take this program
and was it a difficult sell to that No.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
And I think the reason is because there is such
an incoming right now from the Trump administration, whether it
is the things that Elon Musk is doing across the
federal government, the firings across the federal government, Trump saying
that he wants to take Gaza, Greenland, the Panama Canal, Canada,
changes in our policy toward Ukraine. And I think that
(31:39):
people are interested in programs like this where we can
zero in on one thing, take the time to talk
about it here from different perspectives, allow ordinary people into
the conversation, and that's what we're trying to do here.
I will just give our phone number one more time
eight eight eight four one six eight three three three
eight eight eight four one six eight three three three,
(32:01):
or you can go to CBC dot Ca slash aircheck.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
This is a cross border conversation. We're down now to
the last twenty minutes, so running out of opportunities to
be on the program, but we still have some slots left,
so hopefully you will do that. Our question, what do
you think of Trump Trump's comments about Canada becoming the
fifty first state. We're live on CBC News Network, CBC Radio,
c SPAN and some NPR stations. A lot of people
(32:27):
are wondering if Trump really is thinking seriously about making
Canada the fifty first state. So we wanted to connect
with someone who has spoken to him and may be
able to give us some insight. Kevin o'larry is a
Canadian who does business on both sides of the border.
He was one of the panelists investors on the CBC
show dragons Den and is currently on the US equivalent
(32:48):
Shark Tank and he's chairman of O'Leary Ventures and joins
us today from Toronto. Hi, Kevin, great to be here.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Now, based on your conversations with President Trump, why does
he keep talking about Canada as the fifty first state.
Speaker 16 (33:04):
He's taking a shot at Trudeau, who dislikes immensely, and Freeland,
who keeps poking at him. I think after twelve years
of Donald Trump, people would understand how he operates. Shooting
barbes at him doesn't work, doesn't help anything right now,
and unfortunately, we have a leadership void in Canada. Federal
(33:25):
government's collapsed, we await a new election, and Trump is
just sitting here watching Trudeau send out these tweets to
him that he doesn't like. It's not helping anything, you know,
justin and I'm sorry to be critical, but it's time
for him to go.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
It really is.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I mean, but as you know, Kevin, he is going.
The government you know, in fairness hasn't collapsed and soon
there will be unfortunately a new leader prime minister.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
Alright.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
That's the problem. Was that what we need someone with
a four year mandate to negotiate with Trump.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
We don't have that. We have a boy.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So Trump's just taking shots all day long. Yeah, and
I'm having a lot of fun with it too, at
our expense.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Do you think do you think, Kevin, that there's any
chance that Trump seriously believes that Canada should become the
fifty first state.
Speaker 16 (34:14):
I've said this countless times about this situation. I've got
great examples to give you right now.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Okay, let's just talk about the noise and the signal.
Speaker 16 (34:25):
The noise is Trumps saying outlandis outrageous, all kinds of
bombastic comments. But what's in the signal, what's the opportunity
is what we should be looking at. And what he's
been saying consistently is that there's a huge economic opportunity
combining the economies.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Now, obviously he's.
Speaker 16 (34:46):
Starting and everybody thought, oh, he's just picking on Canada.
Every single country on Earth right now is on notice,
every single one that there's going to be reciprocal tariffs.
Its the beginning of a giant global negotiation on trade
with the United States. We're just in one country. We
have two and a half percent of the world's GDP.
We've got to obviously figure out a way to negotiate
(35:06):
when we have no leadership. That's going to be very
tricky for the next six, eight, nine, weeks, whatever it's
going to be. But think about this, Instead of getting
into a war of rhet rhetoric with him, which we're
doing right now, why wouldn't we explore the opportunity? And
I would suggest there's three things that we could be
looking at. Every single one of our commodities and resources
(35:30):
and rare earths and minerals is denominated in US dollars,
not just domestically, globally.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Including oil and gas.
Speaker 16 (35:38):
So why don't we move towards a common currency in
North America, which would be very easy to do. Eleven
out of ten Canadians would love to trade their Trudeau
pesos for US dollars.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
We know that already, so it's a very very easy
ride there.
Speaker 16 (35:53):
We could ask for the Bank of Canada to get
two seats on the FED board if we're going to
combine currency so that we have some control over interest rates.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Number two, get rid of all tariffs.
Speaker 16 (36:04):
All north, south and east west in Canada. You can't
buy BC wine in Quebec and all the rest of
this stupid stuff we do to each other in dairy
and all kinds of wheat board pricing.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And whatever it is that we do.
Speaker 16 (36:17):
We get rid of all that, because the guys in Vermont,
for example, are really really unhappy with.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Us on dairy.
Speaker 16 (36:23):
We spend billions of dollars subsidizing dairy and then pour
it down the drain, collapsing the price.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
It's ridiculous what we do to ourselves. But that also
would be solved. So no tariffs.
Speaker 16 (36:34):
And lastly, an EU type passport where we could, once
approved on both sides, an individual would be free to
rome anywhere in North America.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Now.
Speaker 16 (36:44):
The indigenous people of Canada have that right right now,
Many people don't understand that it's a right they really enjoy.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
They move freely over the borders.
Speaker 16 (36:53):
And that's all Canadians should be able to do if
we had that right.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Look, I'm not going to see the opportunity. I'm not
going to challe you on the you know, all the
things you're saying, like Trudeau peso's. I mean, it is
the Canadian dollar, it's not the Trudeau peso. But but
I don't want to lose sight of the main point here,
and I have lots of calls I want to get
to as well. So let me let me say this.
You asked rhetorically, I suppose why wouldn't Canadians do it well?
(37:17):
Right now, a lot of Canadians are really angry at
the United States, especially over the town threats by Trump.
Let me finish, let me finish Kevin. They don't trust
the president. They see what he said about race and
how it changes all the time, how he's threatening to disrupt,
for example, the auto industry that has worked seamlessly for
(37:38):
years in Michigan and Ontario and other places. And I'll
bet you there are people listening right now who are saying,
how could we possibly trust the United States to make
closer economic relationships.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Because there's a common opportunity. That's why.
Speaker 16 (37:53):
Look, I understand people being angry, and it's unfortunate we're
in this void of leadership. We don't have anybody to
go down there and talk to him because we're waiting
to elect a new leader with at least a four
year mandate, we hope. But having said that, having watched
Trump for twelve years, everybody should understand he's not going
to change. And so rather than get angry you don't
(38:16):
get any opportunity out of anger, constructively think of how
the opportunity could benefit Canadians.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
You don't like the word Trudeau Payso.
Speaker 16 (38:25):
The Canadian dollars lost forty one percent of its value.
Canadians can't take their kids to Disneyland.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
It's lost forty one percent of its value since win.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Since the beginning of Trudeau over nine years. Go back
and look at the charts. He wiped out the country.
Speaker 13 (38:42):
He and.
Speaker 16 (38:45):
His policies that stopped capital from coming in. Gerald buts
wrote policies that took away the rights for people to
invest in this country without permits that he never issued.
And if you watch every metric, every.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Economic you know, people say, oh, this is being these
are facts. Deal with it, deal with it. There are facts.
Speaker 16 (39:04):
Yes, it lost forty one percent of value. Yes, we
don't invest in Canada anymore. Yes, CPP won't invest in
its own country. Yes, Ford capital doesn't come here anymore. Yes,
we are very uncompetitive. We're at the bottom of the
G seven. All right, Trudo, you may not like it,
but that's what he did to the country.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah. I'm not saying I like it or don't like it.
I just but I guess the kind of yes, no,
if possible. I just want to get clear in my mind.
Do you think that there's any chance that Donald Trump
actually believes that Canada should be the fifty first state. No, okay.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Is it a negotiating tool?
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Is there an immense opportunity?
Speaker 16 (39:43):
And if people don't get wise to that, anger doesn't
work in a negotiation, it doesn't work.
Speaker 13 (39:50):
Well.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Then sometimes you have to be careful about making the
other party angry.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
It doesn't matter. The point is, don't look at that.
That's not the opportunity. Tell me, if you took a poll,
you have the opportunity to do it. I mean, my goodness,
you talk to Canadians every day.
Speaker 16 (40:07):
Would you trade your Canadian dollar as you call it,
at parity to the US dollar?
Speaker 2 (40:15):
If that was a negotiating chip, would you do it?
How can we say?
Speaker 6 (40:19):
Yes?
Speaker 11 (40:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
All right, let's leave it there, Kevin. Interesting to hear
your point of view. We'd like to hear different points
of views on this program and that's what we're aiming
to do. So thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Take care.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Kevin O'Leary, Canadian business person who does business on both
sides of the border, chairman of Old Leary Ventures, and
he is in Toronto.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Let's get back to the phones. And Marcellus Atkins is
calling from Ottawa, Ontario. Marcellus, you're calling from Ontario, but
you are an American living there. What do you think
about all this?
Speaker 7 (40:51):
Yeah, correct, my wife and I live here in on One.
First of all, thank you for having me on the show.
I really do appreciate an opportunity to add my voice
to this conversation. I am a US military veteran also,
so living here. One of the things in the military is,
you know, we were always taught to respect our commander
(41:15):
in chief, the president, And at this point, I just
want to say, you know, to anyone listening, I do not.
I cannot because the President's supposed to be the best
of us and this is not what we're seeing. I'm
concerning the fifty or fifty first state comments. In my opinion,
I think one of the previous callers nailed it. I'm
(41:35):
saying that this rhetoric is truly it's war it's warfare,
it's verbal warfare. Any country that tells another country either
you give me your sovereignty, you give me your land,
or I'm going to punish your trade routes, I'm gonna
punish you with tariffs and things like that. Those are
violent statements that should not be ignored by the international community,
(42:00):
and I'm hoping that at some point something has done
to kind of tone that Dan I'll know, or a
even a that I'm altogether concerning whether or not I
think he's serious. Only Donald Trump knows how serious he is,
but I believe that Canadians need to take him seriously
because he wants something. We don't know what it is.
In time, he may not fully know what it is,
(42:21):
but at some point I do believe it's going to
come to light what he's after. And so I think
that's in my opinion where you know, Canadians need to
do what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
And well, Marcella's let me let me ask you a
quick follow up, which is, you know, first of all,
thank you for your service to the country. And if
we were to play this out, and we heard from
Senator Heidi Hyde Camp who actually believes that Trump is
serious about this, if he were to somehow take Canada
by force, people like you in the military would be
involved in that. That that's got to be just an
(42:54):
unbelievable thing to even consider American you know, troops being
involved in forcing their way in.
Speaker 7 (43:03):
Yeah, I have a lot of friends in the military
and that our former military members. We've had these conversations.
We're just dumbfounded. We're going what would that even look like?
I mean, would it look similar to the Civil War
where you've got, you know, a civil war inside of America,
We've got troops firing on civilians. And I'm not trying
to amplify it. I'm just saying, what would that even
(43:25):
look like? To have these nations because we're so intertwined,
how would that even play out? As I'm with you
and my family, we were talking about you know, what
are we going to do if it comes to that,
or we're gonna you know, stay here, head out fight.
I mean, I'll fight alongside Canada. I'm telling you right now.
We have a Canadian flag flying outside my home right
(43:45):
now to show solidarity. And it's not that I'm turning
my back on my country. I'm turning my back on
Donald Trump. He is non representative of me. And if
I could just quickly say one thing to Canadians. First
of all, he does not speak for all Americans, so
please understand that as you're dealing with us, we are
not necessarily represented by this man. But additionally, both I
(44:10):
think Jeremy I don't know.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
If you have children.
Speaker 7 (44:12):
I know and I think your grandfather is what I
saw online, which is congratulations.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 7 (44:17):
I'm sure, yeah you, I'm sure will be teaching your
kid to protect themselves against people who are trying to
force them to do something they don't want to do.
And one of the greatest things we can do is
say no. And I would say to all Canadians, no
means no. Donald Trump understands exactly what that means in
his personal life, his professional life. No means no, don't
(44:39):
keep joking, don't keep asking. I told you no. Stop
That I think needs to be the Canadian position is
no means no.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
We're not giving in stop Marcellis. Thank you very much
for that call.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
I love the fact he's playing a Canadian flag in
the United States or I guess he's in Audiwa. Now
he's in an Americans living in Autawa. But still it's
very interesting. And anyone who invokes my granddaughter in the
conversation that gets extra.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Trying to get over that you look way too young
to be a grandfather.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
It's all it's all about good lighting. So we are
in the last few minutes of the program here, so
let's try to squeeze in a couple of calls. So
an apology ahead of time to the people we're going
to go to, because these will be quick. Eric Emmert
is in Ithaca, New York, and Eric, how are you
reacting to Trump's comments?
Speaker 6 (45:28):
I thank you for taking my call. I don't like
the way things are going, but I do want to
say I think that the US and Canada should become
one country. Thought that for many years.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
I but I mean, how would you How would you
feel about the United States becoming part of Canada?
Speaker 6 (45:47):
That's impossible.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
So when you say one country, you mean Canada becoming
part of the States. But you know, there are a
lot of people up here, in fact, I would say
the vast majority who just find that absolutely un hannibal
even to hear the sentence.
Speaker 6 (46:03):
I understand that, and I have sympathy for their way
of life. I've spent a great deal of time in
Toronto and I'm in Montreal at the moment. It's a
great country, there's all.
Speaker 11 (46:18):
I mean.
Speaker 6 (46:18):
It's a great city. Montreal is wonderful Toronto, but I
feel like it we are being taken advantage of in
the fact that, for example, people from Ontario come to
Buffalo to work very frequently, but almost no one is
able to come from the Buffalo area to Ontario because
(46:42):
of the restrictions placed unemployment.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that's I
don't know if that's true, Eric, and I'd be curious
to know what the restrictions are. But people can do
their fact checking online after the program, because we have
just a couple of minutes left, and I think maybe Jeremy,
we can do one.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
More calls, one more call, and we'll well, well, you
know what, We'll end it with the Canadian caller. I
think that's fair since we're talking about Canada becoming the
fifty first state in this conversation, or at least Trump's
comments about it. Derek is in Saint Albert's Alberta, Derek,
what do you think?
Speaker 16 (47:14):
Hi?
Speaker 10 (47:14):
Thanks for having me on. I have a major problem
with Donald Trump with what he's saying. I think it's
extremely dangerous and it's reckless. He's never going to be
able to annex Canada. Like we have several jurisdictions and
provinces and territories, but we also have treaties with the
indigenous people's like, there's eleven different treaties that span multiple provinces.
(47:37):
You're never going to get a buy in from every
every just jurisdiction that way in order to make a move.
I don't think you would even get any buy in
from any of the indigenous people. So I don't think
it could happen personally.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Has it changed your relationship with the United States at all?
Of you started boycotting any goods? Have you, you know,
changed any travel plans anything like that.
Speaker 10 (48:00):
No, not for me, not like that. I'm like, I
you know, it just it's you know, it's a president
and his staff who are I don't know if it's
a joke or if it's a bargaining tactic that they have,
But I understand American people are American people. I love
both countries, but I do not want to be an American. However,
I will continue to trade with them and buy their
(48:22):
stuff even if there's tariffs put in place. If I
have my preferences. You know, it's just the way it is.
I'm not I'm not going to change what I'm doing,
but it's I just think it's extremely reckless for the
president to be doing that because he's he's really eroding away,
you know, centuries or decades worth of of you know,
(48:44):
goodwill between the two countries.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
And what do you make of Kevin O'Leary's comments that
we heard that basically this is a negotiating tactic and
that Canada should want a stronger and deeper economic relationship
with the United States.
Speaker 10 (48:58):
I agree with him a wholeheart. That's what Donald Trump does.
He'll say something, he gets everybody running in circles, and
then when the dust settles, his real agenda comes out,
but everybody's He makes you dance and then he wants
what he wants. That's Kevin hit the nail on the head.
I mean, he's he went off a little politically on it,
(49:19):
but you know, we'll leave it at that. But you know,
Kevin knows him well.
Speaker 13 (49:25):
So.
Speaker 10 (49:26):
But that's what Donald did the first four years he
was the president. That's what he's going to do for
this four years.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Derek, thank you very much for that call.
Speaker 10 (49:35):
All right, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Well, that is almost all the time we have today,
thanks to everyone who called and also reached out to
us online. Into my co host from the middle, Jeremy Hobson,
once again, second time we've done co production. The time
before was from Detroit just before the election. Here we
do it again in Vancouver. It's been fantastic sharing a
studio with you.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Absolutely, it has been a great pleasure. I want to
thank a couple of people who made a pot well,
because this came together in about ten days from like
beginning to actual show. John Barth, my great colleague, who
helped us get on c SPAN, our friends at c
SPAN who worked very quickly to get this on television
in the United States, and Jay Herrera at NPR for
(50:18):
helping us get this on one hundred and seventy NPR
stations across the United States. That's not easy to do.
We managed to do it. Hopefully they were happy with it,
and thanks to all of you who called in. By
the way, we do our show The Middle every single week.
You can find it on the iHeart app or wherever
you listen to podcasts to Search for the Middle with
(50:39):
Jeremy Hobson.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
And Richard Goddard is the senior producer of Cross Country Checkup.
This was his brain child to do that for us
so in Detroit and to do this show again, and
he deserves all the kudos and bears all the scars
that are involved in putting on a program like this,
and one of my favorite parts about doing these shows,
besides working with you, is the funky middle.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Here it is. We're gonna let the middle music play
us out. Thank you so much for listening to a
cross border conversation.
Host
Jeremy Hobson
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.