November 15, 2024 • 50 mins
On this episode of The Middle we're asking you: what did the election teach you about America, and what did you learn from how the nation voted? We're joined by USA Today Chief Political Correspondent Phillip Bailey and former Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus callers from around the country. #2024 #election #Trump #Harris
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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More information on how you can support the Middle at
Listen to Them Middle dot com. Welcome to the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson and as always, our house, DJ Tolliver
(00:24):
is here. Hi Tolliver, Hey, Jeremy, Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We got some new listeners this week. We got a
KRPS and Kansas, Oklahoma, and Missouri, including Joplin, Missouri.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Joplin, which, fun fact, I learned is not named after
Scott Joplin. I thought because of Missouri, But no, that's
not good.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
That song Route sixty six, you know you know the song.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
So here we are, Tolliver. We now know that Republicans
are going to control both Houses of Congress in addition
to the White House come January, which means that even
though the polls showed a very tight race between Kamala
Harris and Donald Trump right to the end, in fact
it was a pretty decisive victory for Republicans. Trump won
every single swing state. He gained votes in nearly every
(01:04):
demographic while Kamala Harris lost votes, and when all the
votes are tallied, she will have received millions fewer than
Joe Biden did in twenty twenty. So our question this
hour what did the election teach you about America. We're
going to get to your calls in a moment at
eight four four four middle. That's eight four six four
three three five three. But first, last week we asked
(01:26):
you about your hopes and fears for the future following
the election. Here are some of the voicemails that came
in after the show.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Hi, Nicole, I'm a young bowlder from North Dakota, and
I think my biggest takeaway from this past election is
that people are apathetic. They don't really care anymore, especially
young boges. You know, people can't forward to care when
they can't afford to pay for their life. And that's
just the way it is right now.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Hi, this is Kyle from Minneapolis. What I hope for
this election cycle for people to learn is that it's
never really as bad as what people say it's going
to be, because all I'm seeing on social media is
just people losing it, equating Donald Trump with Nazis. You know,
he's been president before, and I'm sure he passed ballicies
that people didn't like and things like that, but it's
(02:13):
more important to unify than to divide.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
My name is Stephanie Jacob. I'm calling from Shorewood, Wisconsin.
I'm so glad you're continuing this program because lots of
us need it. We all need each other, we all
need to find out how we can possibly reach each other.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in, and you can
hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with
iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app or wherever you listen
to podcasts. So now to our topic this hour. What
did the election teach you about America? If you voted
for Trump or Harris or no one. We want to
hear from you, Taliver. Can you give us the number?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three are right to
us that listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Let's meet our panel USA Today Chief political correspondent Phil
Bailey is with us. Philip, great to have you, Jeremy
as always, and former Ohio Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan, founder
of We the People, which is a self described online
community for people exhausted by the current political discourse. Congressman Ryan,
welcome to you.
Speaker 6 (03:16):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, before we get to the funds, Congressman, you actually
have some experience with JD. Vance. He beat you for
that Senate seat in Ohio a couple of years ago.
A lot of soul searching right now among Democrats trying
to make sense of what happened. What is your take
what did you learn about America from this election?
Speaker 6 (03:36):
Well, I think, first and point thank you for having
the show and giving a kind of a form for
people to come together. I think people there's still a
lot of economic anxiety in the country. In a good
GDP and some good macroeconomic numbers, hasn't changed that. There's
(03:58):
been forty or fifty years of disinvestment, deindustrialization and all
the rest economic stagnation, a concentration of wealth, and that's
still in the DNA of the country for the most part.
And I also I think learned that most Americans want
(04:18):
us to focus on that. They don't want the focus
to be, you know, more of the cultural issues. They
don't want the division and all the rest, but they
want a laser light focus on the economic issues.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
Building things and all the rest, and I think at.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
The end of the day, slightly people trusted Donald Trump
to do that more than the Democrats.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Philip Hilly, what about you. You've been covering this campaign NonStop,
You've been all over the country talking with voters. What
did you learn.
Speaker 8 (04:47):
Well, look, it was twenty twelve when Barack Obama won
reelection to the surprise of many, including Republican presidential candidate
Mitt Romney, if you remember those documentaries on that race,
and at the time, Obama did that with only thirty
nine percent of the white vote. He won African Americans, Hispanics,
(05:07):
younger people, and many essays were written by Democrats and
their supporters about there was going to be this permanent
electoral college advantage that Democrats were going to have because
of the multi racial democracy that was beginning to emerge.
Speaker 9 (05:22):
I think Democrats misread that.
Speaker 8 (05:23):
They think that democted diversity and non white voter sort
of emerging was going to equal a more progressive society
or a liberal government. And Donald Trump, who cut his
teeth by the way in the most diverse city in
the world, New York City, understands tribalism and I think
the most consequential thing that happened really in this race. Jeremy,
(05:44):
and there were many in this unprecedented race, well, when
those Republican governors were shipping migrants into those cities and
putting black, poor people next to these migrant workers who
were competing over resources, and not only competing over resources, but.
Speaker 9 (05:58):
It really tested the idea of intersectionality.
Speaker 8 (06:01):
And I think that's what I think what we learned
from this race is that, look, a more diverse, multiracial
democracy is not necessarily a liberal government.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
One of the things I have to say that I
learned is how much the media have changed in the
last several years. And in this case, we had not
just Fox News, which it turns out, according to Hugh
I think was where more Americans got their political news
than any other source, was at times a twenty four
hour commercial for Donald Trump, but also X, which is
(06:32):
a very more important I think than a lot of
people give it credit for, had a Elon Musk billionaire
who was backing Donald Trump and can change the algorithm
however he wants. Tim Ryan, what about the media and
social media effect on this election?
Speaker 7 (06:47):
Do you think yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
I mean, I think they were able to build a narrative,
especially around the misinformation. There were a lot of things
that ended up not being very true that that spread
like wildfire. I kept, you know, thinking again and again
of Churchill's great quote that a.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
Lie is halfway around the world.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
While the truth is still home putting on its pants,
and that those lies, those that disinformation really made its way,
you know. And the Cats and the Dogs was like
the extreme version of that. But there were so many
other things that weren't true and that came out through
social media and people are just getting snippets of things,
(07:31):
and people are are still in their lane and these
quote unquote low information voters may hear a snippet here
or there, but they don't get the whole story. And
I think it became you know, border strength. Who's for
the economy and who's for the working class. Even through
all of that, Trump was seen again as the guy
(07:54):
who was able to do it. And I think I
think to some extent the must up the reinventing government stuff,
you know, which I thought was I really wanted the
Democrats to do it. And if we look back, remember
Bill Clinton had a reinventing government, so putting musk in
charge of a big business guy who's wealthy guy trying
to fix government. And that's That's the other thing I
(08:15):
would just add quickly is that government's broken. We know
it like it's broken on so many different levels. And
Trump captured that animosity, anxiety around it, knowledge of it,
as opposed to I think the Democrats stayed in the
same lane of you know, defending government in a lot
(08:36):
of ways, not doing anything different than Biden, not changing anything.
And that all permeated through social media in a very
very big way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
See jearing me.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
If everybody followed the middle, it would have been a
lot right.
Speaker 10 (08:50):
Here.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Let's let's get to the phones and Mike, who's in Cincinnati, Ohio. Mike,
welcome to the middle. What did you learn about the
country from the election?
Speaker 11 (08:59):
Well, I'm actually a lifelong Democrat who flipped to vote
for Trump in twenty sixteen, and it's it's just so
I understand both sides, and I still listen to NPR
every morning, and so I understand what Democrats are getting
in terms of news, and it still shocks me that
the liberal news media still doesn't seem to understand the
(09:21):
Trump voter, you know, like they didn't understand, like, you know,
a lot of people are like me. They were there,
former Democrat from Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
What did you do this time, Mike? Did you vote
for Trump again this time in twenty twenty four?
Speaker 11 (09:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, I voted for him in twenty twenty.
Speaker 10 (09:37):
Huh.
Speaker 11 (09:37):
You know. And I'm one of the reasons people so here,
I am. I see both sides. One of the reasons
people are so angry on the right at the government,
and I think there's a real problem with government is
for example, we were all censored on social media in
twenty twenty. I had I was tweeting information about Haunter
Biden's laptop, and I had two Twitter accounts shut down
(09:59):
with no it's explanation. I posted information on LinkedIn. I
had my LinkedIn account shutdown until I I I had
to like, you know, swear and promise I wouldn't say
anything about you know, the laptop or I've I had
a YouTube channel I just did for recreation. I started
it during COVID lockdown. That that was a shadowmand when
(10:23):
I made certain comments that that, you know, so people
are angry about things like that, and the other The
other point I want to make is having having voted
for I voted for Obama. And people don't understand this,
but many of you know one of Obama's big promises
was to he said he would keep special interests, lobbyists
(10:44):
and Washington d C. Insiders out of his administration. Then
you just completely broke that promise. So what is Trump
doing that? People that you know, as someone voted for
Obama for that reason, I thought, oh, we get it,
and then he didn't get it right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
That's an interesting point, Mike, thank you for that. Philip,
just briefly your thoughts, I mean on the first part,
which is that he believes the media is out of
touch with the Trump voter and didn't see it, which
would explain I guess maybe why a lot of people
were surprised by what happened.
Speaker 8 (11:11):
Well, I think you know what we learned from this
campaign is that podcasts, in particular, even non political podcast
I think when this history has written about this campaign,
Baron Trump, of President Trump's son, will play a big
role in this. I think that the use of podcasts
and the sort of new media, much in the same
way that old right wing talk was, I think that's
(11:31):
become the new train for a lot of conservative figures
and politicians.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
And we have a podcast, of course. But talib it
wasn't the economy that many people believe pushed Trump over
the top. It wouldn't be the first time, of course,
that a presidential candidate has won by promising to make
things better for working people. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Here's what Bill Clinton had to say to supporters after
his victory in nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 12 (11:52):
I remind you of end of the night, my fellow Americans,
that this victory was more than a victory of party.
It was a victory for the people who work hard
and play for the rules, a victory for the people
who feel left out and left behind but want to
do better. A victory for the people who are ready
to compete and win in the global economy, but who
need a government that offers a hand up, not a handout.
(12:15):
That is what we offer, and that is what tomorrow
we will begin to work to provide to all of you.
Speaker 9 (12:22):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Interesting to hear that.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Now, Yeah, seriously, thanks, more of.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Your calls coming up on the Middle. This is the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning. In the Middle
is a national call in show focused on elevating voices
from the middle geographically, politically, and philosophically, or maybe you
just want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're
asking you, what did the election teach you about America? Tolliver,
(12:46):
what is the number to call in?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I'm joined by former Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan and USA
Today Chief political correspondent Philip Bailey and Tim Ryan. Before
we go back to the phones, what about the connection
that Donald Trump clearly has with so many Americans that
people are willing to look past a lot of things
and trust him almost unconditionally.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
It's really an incredible spell. He is cast on a
lot of people, millions and millions of Americans.
Speaker 7 (13:21):
I think there were a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
That aren't in on, you know, weren't you know, enamored
with him personally and some of his behavior and rhetoric
and all that, but just think he would be better
policy wise, maybe for the country, and they were willing
to look past I think two things. I think one,
they want the system broken like it is broken, but
they want they want to flip the tables, you know,
(13:44):
they want to do things differently. They want to, you know,
fix the government. They want to put tariffs on, they
want to, you know, do all these reforms. And that's
the general sentiment I think across the population.
Speaker 7 (13:56):
He was the candidate that really tapped into it.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
That's one, and then two, I think it's really easy
to fall into the trap of like, Trump's a liar.
He lies, and he by all standards he's like an
Olympic Gold medalist of lying. But then when you look
at Democrats, you'd say, well, they were saying they're not
for open borders, but yet what I watch on TV
is open borders. Well, Biden's fine, he's just had a
(14:23):
bad night when we all watched what happened to him.
These were not Trump's anti democratic, He's not for democracy. Well,
it was the Democrats who shut down the primary, didn't
allow anyone to run. There were no debates in the
Democratic primary, really protected Biden got rid of New Hampshire
as the first state. So you could see, if you're
(14:44):
just an objective observer here, yeah he lies. But boy,
the Democrats aren't really being straightforward either. And I think
that's kind of why they give him a pass, because
then it defaults too while they all lie, and so
he's the best liar of all, and he's on their side,
and they go with him.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Let's go to the phones. Joseph is in Saint Louis. Joseph,
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 9 (15:09):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
What did you learn about the election about the country
from the election?
Speaker 13 (15:14):
Good evening. First, let me just say I really appreciate
this show and its format. I mean I was really
alarmed a few years ago when all the comments sections
and newspapers and even my local TBS News roundtable for
the Saint Louis region stopped their calling segment because all
of our ruling elites, they didn't like what they were
(15:35):
hearing bubbling up from the bottom, and we're sticking their
fingers in their ears, kind of to Mike's point the
previous caller about online censorship. I'm also a double Obama
triple Trump voter, but the two things I learned were
just how desperately out of touch our ruling classes. I mean,
we had all the commanding types of power speaking with
(15:56):
one place, you know, academia, military, both wings of the
establishment parties, they were hyperventilating about fascism and booing their
eyes out about misinformation, and the people just weren't buying it.
And then the second thing I learned is that a
counter elite is forming a little splinter faction of people.
(16:17):
You know, the Musks of the world, and you know
a bunch of these other very successful what would normally
be ruling class evils. A lot of them probably don't
like Trump, a lot probably don't agree with them on everything,
but I agree that the current direction, the ruling political,
cultural hegemony of the country is on the wrong track.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Joseph, thank you very much for that. Philip Bailey, what
about that the elites and and sort of and just
people that don't don't want the elites quote unquote telling
them what to do.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
Well, this is the funniest part about Donald Trump's rise, right,
I mean, no one is more elite than Donald Trump.
I mean, like Elon Musk is the richest man of
the world.
Speaker 6 (16:54):
Right.
Speaker 9 (16:55):
So I hate to tell folks, but like, there's.
Speaker 8 (16:56):
Not a whole lot of commonality that Donald Trump and
Elon Musk have with your callers.
Speaker 9 (17:00):
Are most average Americans.
Speaker 8 (17:02):
I doubt that Donald Trump or Elon knows what the
cost of an egg or the cost of milk is
right now. But again, the Democratic Party is the party
of government right delivering services and bigger government. So when
people have a problem with government and the Democrats aren't
able to make that government better, who gets blamed for that?
(17:23):
It's often the Democrats. And I think the Congressman is
right in this regard that I've talked to different Democratic
bundlers and donors and activists who said, look, we haven't
had an honest primary in the Democratic Party since two
thousand and eight.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I mean, you could talk that as a brutal one too,
between the Jeni and Obama.
Speaker 8 (17:39):
And I think there's a lot of both cultural, political,
and intellectual protectionism going on on the Democratic side and
that they have sort of delayed for years in years,
and they haven't had to want to have some of
these very difficult conversations, not just about the cultural issues,
because guess what, race and gender, racism, and sexism are
not going away in this country. There is a considerable
amount of people in this country who are racists, who
(18:02):
are sexist, who voted for Donald Trump.
Speaker 9 (18:03):
It wasn't all of his supporters and voters.
Speaker 8 (18:05):
But it was enough, and that backlash since Barack Obama
was president hasn't gone anywhere, and I think it has
short circuited for a lot of white voters how they
think about our politics these days.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Let's go to Lynette in Lafayette, Louisiana. Lynnette, what did
you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 10 (18:23):
Hi?
Speaker 14 (18:24):
There, I learned that people are willing to vote against
their own best interests in order to just not have
a female in charge.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Why do you think that? Why do you think that
that's the reason that people didn't vote for Kamala Harris.
Speaker 14 (18:42):
I know that because just male and female people that
I know I've known for twenty five thirty years who
have always supported Democrats or who were independent and willing
to vote for Joe Biden. But as soon as Harris
became the nominee, then suddenly, oh, you know, we don't
(19:06):
like the way you know she was doing with her
job and office. And I ask people what exactly do
you think she was in charge of as vice president?
And no one could tell me. I have a political
science background of works in governments, so I know a
lot more than the average person, but I couldn't get
(19:27):
straight answers as to why they didn't like it, and
it was obvious by comments not just from people on
social media and people on television, but conversations that were
so sexist. And these same people who would be willing
to support would never support Trump any other way.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Lynette, thank you. Let me take that to the congressman.
Congressman Ryan, what do you think about that? Do you
agree that the gender of Kamala harri Us was an
issue for a lot of voters in this country.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
I don't think it was a lot.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
I'm sure there are some there's I mean, it's so random.
How many people make a decision on who they vote
for and you ask them and they give you some
thing that you've never thought of. So I'm sure there
are some out there who, you know, weren't going to
vote for a woman. But I think the reality of
it is this is a change election where sixty five
(20:29):
percent of the people in the country wanted to change.
Speaker 7 (20:31):
They think the country's on the wrong track.
Speaker 6 (20:35):
And Kamala Harris was never able to kind of separate
herself from Joe Biden, who's the sitting president, sitting at
forty percent approval. That's the main driver of the election.
And you know, if you get off of that main point,
you know, I think you're talking anecdotally about how people voted.
(20:58):
But the main throat of this was people feel frustrated.
It is inflation, it's these pocketbook issues. They don't want
to be divided, and they felt like we are now
and they put that on Biden. And that was the
anchor around Kamala Harris's neck and she couldn't shake it.
(21:19):
And you know, she made a couple of mistakes on
the view and other places where she said she wouldn't
change anything from the Biden administration, and that I think
was the killer for her when she couldn't separate, because
now you got the anchor around your.
Speaker 7 (21:35):
Neck and she's still almost almost pulled it off.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right at the end of the day, it is actually
going to be, you know, within a point something like
that in the popular vote, and not that big of
a difference in the swing states. But they all swung
the same way, as we said, Philip Billy, whether or
not that's true that maybe not enough people made the
decision based on the gender. Are there conversations happening in
(21:59):
the Democratic Party right now after they've just lost with
two female candidates in the last three election cycles that
they aren't going to do that again, fairly or unfairly.
Speaker 8 (22:10):
No, I don't think you're seeing from the at least
the early autopsies of Democrats saying, oh, it's a problem
with having a woman on the top of the ticket.
Let's remember that Lisa Rochester became the first black woman
elected to the US and out of Delaware. Angela also
Brooks broke that same ceiling for the US Senate in Maryland.
Your multi racial democracy is well and alive. It's just
(22:31):
that you still have to make an argument Democrats who
can't simply think that, oh, the country's more diverse, so
therefore people are just going to vote democratic. There were
men of color in these cities, right who in Detroit,
in Philadelphia who are ex Hispanic men, black men. These
are working classmen too, who say, look, I always vote Democratic,
but I look at these things out out of my neighborhood.
(22:51):
I look at my pocketbook, and I'm not seeing any
sort of progress or change. No, I don't like Donald Trump.
Remember after the first assassination attempt Jeremy, President Trump's approval
ratings are likability to not go up, and they tried
to shoot and kill him right. So this was not
a oh, we love Donald Trump. This was we loved
the times that Donald Trump when he was president. We
remembered the nostalgia of twenty nineteen and twenty twenty. That
(23:14):
was what people, I think were largely voting for. And
because Harris refused to make a clean break and say
at least one or two things, Madam Vice President, that
you disagree with the president on, I think they gave
a lot of folks a pause ofve Yeah, let's go
back to the old Let's let's rewind the tape and
go back to the old days.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
All these people carrying pocketbooks, this pocket let's update the
cash out cash out.
Speaker 9 (23:37):
There we go cash out.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
We got some comments online. Brian and mischlawaka Indiana says
the election taught me that too many Americans prioritized the
price of eggs over their civic responsibility to protect democracy
and finding solutions to existential problems like industrial pollution. Ziff
in Houston, Texas says, what I've learned about America since
the election is that the power of the vote can
be used as a protest. I feel like a lot
(24:01):
of people aren't talking about how much impact the Uncommitted
movement had.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Interesting Yeah, you can reach out to us at listen
to the Middle dot com or again at eight four
Middle that's eight four four four six four three three
five three. And let's go to Cynthia, who's in Chicago. Cynthia,
what did you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 15 (24:23):
I learned that people do not have a capacity to
understand or be discerning about their sources of information. Donald
Trump repeatedly says things like they say this, or they
say that, what is who is they? And when people
are getting their information from the manisphere or from Facebook
(24:47):
or from just social media. And I have friends and
loved ones who do this, whether it reinforces their original
biases or not. They ford things without even bothering to
check where did it come from. And I think that
that has played a role. I you know, I understand
that the Democratic Party they have leaned or some of
(25:10):
the left wing kind of things. I don't think x
Y transgender people should be competing against xx females on
any level. And I think there's some common sense things
that on the left. You know, the people in the
middle of the Democratic Party don't agree with. But you
know that left leaning stuff. They say this, they say,
(25:33):
you know they're going to and when people don't have
time because we're working so hard to really do any
kind of investigation about what is it that they say,
we just forward it.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Right, Cynthia, Thank you, Congressman Ryan. We've talked a little
bit about the media, but let me just focus on
what Cynthia said there in the last half of that,
which is some people have looked at what happened and
said that the Democrats went too far to the left,
they they got too woke. What do you think about that?
(26:09):
And did you did you learn anything about sort of
the platform of the Democratic Party that needs to change?
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Well, I think, you know, and I agree with what
Carville has been saying. I think, you know, Kamala kind
of stayed away from that stuff, but it's still out there.
You know, the Democrats are still seen as the the
woke party that wants to defund the police and open
borders and all the things that I mentioned earlier, still
(26:36):
seen that way. They're still seen as the party of redistribution,
of We're going to tax the wealthy and put money
out there for people that that aren't necessarily out.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
There working and doing things right.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
So you know, I think that that piece of it
really is still kind of in the zeitge, still in
the in the in the you know, uh, in the
air for Democrats, and it's gonna take a complete reboot
of the Democratic Party to do it. And it's you know,
(27:12):
there's gonna be some bumps along the way, but we've
got to get back, you know what to what Bill
Clinton said and the clip you guys just played, and
the key phrase there is get the government to work
on behalf of these people. Now you think about you know,
Democrats saying we're not going to change anything, and we're
you know, the coming out of the pandemic, it was
(27:33):
just kind of like spend money and and and Trump
saying we are going to reform this government. We're gonna
make it work for you again. We're gonna put TIFFs
on these products coming in that are you know, helping
displace you. And there's a lot of argument within whether
or not that's gonna work. It may make matters worse
with the terrorists, as we all know, but clearly he
was able to get on that side of it as
(27:56):
opposed to the Democrats still carrying this anchor around on
their neck. Of v punt on the police. So I
don't think it could have been a neutral stance of
just not using that language or appearing like you're in
line with that stuff. It had to be a hard break.
It had to be a hard break on natural gas
in Western Pa to displace coal, to bend the curve
(28:19):
on climate. It had to be a hard break on
crypto and blockchain. It had to be a hard break
on you know, maybe economic policy or student loans or
something like that, growing the pie, not talking about just
taxing the rich and blaming them and then handing out checks.
And you know, if you don't get away from that,
(28:39):
that that.
Speaker 7 (28:42):
Messaging is going to carry on.
Speaker 6 (28:43):
And it carried on through this election, and I think
it was a big part of, you know, why we
couldn't pull it off.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I'm just going to sneak in one more call real
quick before this break, Ryan and Pittsburgh. Ryan, what did
you learn about the election about the.
Speaker 11 (28:55):
Country, Heygreeving.
Speaker 16 (28:59):
This election very much reminded me of a lecture I
saw by Noam Chansky about the subjectivity and power of
words and how we all understand and use words differently.
I've had some very candid conversations with colleagues and some
neighbors who voted for Obama but then pivoted over to Trump,
and I asked them questions such as, do you really
(29:20):
think Trump and the Republicans are like the party or
our option for progress. Some of the responses I got were, well,
progress is not thousands of people living on the streets
of San Francisco, nor is it cancel culture that got
my wife fired for using a wrong pronoun And I
really thought deeply about that word, because I know on
the left the Democrats like to believe themselves as a
(29:42):
party of progress. But some people when they think of progress,
they think of economic issues. They think about are most
of the stores on their main street in a small
town in Rothern, Michigan clothes And we don't see. I
think that this has always been the case, but it's
especially so right now. We don't share a common body
of the words we use and how we use them
(30:04):
or how they would be applied. And you know, traditionally
the Republicans were like the Party of tradition and security
and order, and the two parties don't really have that
sort of yeah, secure vocabulary.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
More interesting point, Ryan, thank you for that and Tolliver,
you know we have seen ruling parties around the world
pushed out thanks to things like inflation.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, Japan, New Zealand, South Africa and the UK where
the Labor Party overturned fourteen years of conservative power in
the last election. There here's party leader Keir Starmer delivering
his victory speech and claiming a mandate.
Speaker 17 (30:39):
But a mandate like this comes with a great responsibility.
Our task is nothing less than renewing the ideas to
hold this country together, national renewal. Whoever you are, where
have you started in life, If you work hard, if
you play by the rules, this country should give you
(31:02):
a fair chance to get on. It should always respect
your contribution. And we have to restore that.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I think he plagiarized Bill Clinton. There, TOLLIVERD what do
you think?
Speaker 6 (31:13):
I think so?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I think it's a winning message. No matter what year
you're talking about, evergreen, it is evergreen. We'll be right
back with more of the middle. This is the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour, we're asking you what did
the election teach you about America. You can call us
at eight four four four Middle, or you can reach
out to us at listen to the middle dot Com.
I'm joined by USA Today Chief political correspondent Philip Bailey
(31:37):
and former Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan. And before we go
back to the phones, Philip Bailey, what do you think
Republicans learned from this election? How might Trump govern differently
than before?
Speaker 12 (31:49):
Well?
Speaker 8 (31:49):
I think you know what will be interesting to see
here is what has Donald Trump learned? I think from
these early appointments. You know, RFK is HHS secretary of
Matt Gates's AG.
Speaker 9 (32:01):
I think he's.
Speaker 8 (32:02):
Testing the ground for how much control do I really
have over the Republican Party. Right there's the shadow of
Washington that I think could come into play here with
the shadows of Congress. May her tail him a little bit.
Thune has said that he's going to give Trump a
large or a wide berth here on these appointments. The
Gates appointment to AG, I think will be the biggest test.
(32:22):
Do Republican senators have the stomach for Matt Gates? Does
the country have the stomach for someone who is so controversial?
I mean there is still even though the ethics investigation
was it released, I guarantee you we may be seeing
pieces of the investigation leak out in the next couple
of days and weeks here. So I think for Republicans, Jeremy,
(32:42):
the test will be how far can we go with this?
Did the people really give us a mandate to fix
their economic situation or do they give us a mandate
to change fundamentally how the federal government behaves. That's going
to be a Republican argument. Very interested to see though,
how Democrats respond. There are some Democrats, I think, who
will try to fight and be a part of the resistance.
But there may be some Democrats Jimmy, I'm hearing this already,
(33:04):
who say, you know what, this is what the American
people wanted side with.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Governor Jared Poulus came out and sort of with a
kind of a supportive quote about Robert F. Kennedy Junior.
We'll see if that lasts as we get further into that.
Let me go to John, who's in Englewood, Florida. John,
welcome to the middle Go ahead, what did you learn
about the country from the election?
Speaker 10 (33:28):
Thank you? Well, I didn't really learn a lot because
I'm sixty nine and I'm retired Navy. I did twenty
years running engine rooms. But I haven't heard anybody really
share my opinion that president is not a job I
would want at all. And the way I looked at
(33:50):
it is I was voting for this president, not a saint.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
So you voted for Trump.
Speaker 10 (33:56):
You know, we vote, Yeah, we've all got our cross
to bear, you know, but who would do be the
best job as president?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
And you voted for Donald Trump?
Speaker 10 (34:08):
Yes? I did?
Speaker 9 (34:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:10):
And was what was the main reason for you, John?
Speaker 10 (34:14):
The main reason? Well, there was really no substance with
Knaa has. She was just a character assassination the whole
time and all there wasn't any we all meet her
in her platform Economy the Border.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, John, thank you very much for that. Congressman Ryan,
what about that you sort of touched on that, and
she wasn't able to articulate a major difference with President
Biden in that interview on the view. But also do
you think she was that maybe Democrats would learn here
that Kamala Harris was just too careful, wasn't really opening
up about what she really wanted for the country.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that the
lane to probably beat Trump was on some ideas and
we didn't We've heard a little bit about housing, an
opportunity society, which I don't think ever got a lot
of meat put on the bone, and so there weren't
those kind of you know again, going back to Bill Clinton,
(35:23):
it was about investing in the skilled workers. It was
about reforming government. It was about you know, what he
wanted to do with health care and education to prepare
for the twenty first century. There was like this big, broad,
you know program that they had. And I work now
with the Progressive Policy Institute that's run by Will Marshall,
(35:45):
who was kind of Clinton's idea guy back in the day,
and the PPI is still cranking out great ideas, but
that it was an idea factory, and they were able
not to just have policy ideas. And as Jimmy Carter,
one of Jimmy Carter's guys to say that Democrats are
famous for showing up at a gunfight with a ten
point policy plan, so they But what Clinton was able
(36:11):
to do, and I think Obama to a certain extent,
was like fit those policies into the context of.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Where we are today.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
How does that mean America is going to be more competitive?
How does it mean America is going to be stronger?
How is there going to be a ladder for people
to climb up out of poverty and into the middle class,
or out of the working poor and into the middle class.
But those ideas and everyone's part of this, and it
was the wall had fell, and that was the context.
Now it's a different context that I think Trump kind
(36:41):
of grabbed onto. Like the world's changing, we don't need
defense all over the world. China's cheating, we got to
put tariffs on there. Government's broken and bloated. We need
to make sure we reform it. So he was able
on the idea front, I think, And who knows how
it comes out, I mean, because.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Right he did make a lot of promises that he
probably a lot of promises.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
I mean, he's a con man of biblical proportions. So
we'll see what happens. And just quickly on a note
of his new administration, all these appointees.
Speaker 7 (37:12):
It's interesting.
Speaker 6 (37:13):
Political had a nice article today about how he's hiring
people who have conflicting views. You know, Rubio is more
of a hawk and Tulsea Gabbard's more of a dove,
and they're in the two big national security positions. That's
going to happen throughout his administration, which is exactly how
he ran his businesses. So it's going to be interesting
to see that conflict as well. Let alone the test
(37:36):
of power in the Senate, because those Republican senators who
are saying bad things about Matt Gates right now, if
Trump really wants them, and he says, you will have
a primary in two years and I will endorse your
opponent in Arkansas, in Oklahoma or wherever they're gonna maybe
reevaluate their position, They'll be interesting to see how far
(37:57):
Trump can take it.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Let's go to LaToya in Olympia, Washington, LaToya, What did
you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 18 (38:06):
Good afternoons, gentlemen. What I learned about this country, especially
as a Black woman and Democrat living here, is that
I literally watched an entire culture of people, especially post
George Floyd, repurpose a word woke, wke that came out
of the black community long ago for their own games.
(38:26):
And so what I see, especially living in the on
the left coast right, what I see is upper middle class,
especially white women, pushing agendas that do not matter to
the country. So, even living here where wages are competitive
and it is about what you can buy and what
you can afford. The issues that matter to Black communities
(38:50):
and Latino communities who shifted a lot to lords Trump
were not addressed. So LGBTQIA issues while value was pushed
too hard on a country that did not understand or
want to understand it because of the current economic crisis
for working class families. And so we see a liberal
agenda that went too far left. It neglected the communities
(39:11):
that it said it is good for, and instead we
have so called progressive people shoving in ideology or ideology
is down everyone's throat, and forgetting the art of having
a conversation because the opposition doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
LaToya, thank you for that. Philip Elli, your thoughts on that.
Another We're hearing a theme here which is basically like
elites not connected to working Americans.
Speaker 9 (39:36):
Well, yeah, and I think that.
Speaker 8 (39:37):
Look, after the pandemic, there were two groups of people
in this country who saw their life expectancy take the
biggest hit. It was Hispanic men and it was Black men.
You didn't hear any mainstream Democrat talk about that. Over
the past four years. The Harris campaign made a gamble.
They thought that this election was going to hinge on
what they were calling the shy Harris voter, this moderate
maybe even republican, white conservative woman whose husband was a
(40:00):
Trump voter, and that they were going to go into
that voting booth and vote for her and defy their
husbands in some sort of way with it. And didn't
anticipate was that this election was going to have a
lot of so called shy Trump voters. Working class men
of color in these urban areas who are not fans
of Donald Trump in his personality will tell you to
your face, I don't like how Donald Trump talks about race,
(40:21):
don't like how he talks about me or my communities
or whatever else. But those men, those working classmen of color,
because look, the Democratic Party hasn't won working class white
men in sixty years. Right, Like, when we look at
this at the end of the day, what we're going
to find is is that I think working class men
of color have now become the new swing voter, and
they're telling the Democratic Party that, yes, you're listening far
(40:41):
too much to college educated white liberal women and not
listening to us as part of that coalition. And many
of them felt like, you know what, Donald Trump, I
may not like him, but there's a casino that's open,
and I got a.
Speaker 6 (40:51):
Chance also just to jump in here real quick.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
My perception was that Vice President Harris was sort of
avoiding those LGBTQIA issues, so she.
Speaker 8 (41:02):
Did not run a liberal campaign. She ran a citrus campaign.
Like it wasn't this very far left reaching campaign. I
think the problem it wasn't a policy campaign either. If
you were at that Republican National Convention. Look, Haulkgan wasn't
up there talking about policy. Amber Rose wasn't there talking
about policy. It was strength versus joy that I think
at a time where the country wanted justice, the Democrats
just simply misstepped and didn't get the messaging right. And
(41:24):
they haven't got the messaging right for some of their
key voters for a number of years now.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
Well, if I could, if I could just add real quick,
because I think, you know, Philip's absolutely right on the
mail piece, on the on the men piece, and it's
not you know, it's it's men are hurting today. The
number one indicator of suicide today is whether or not
you're a man.
Speaker 19 (41:47):
You know, So the the the the idea that we
can ignore the plight among young men and boys and
men who are trying to navigate this very complicated world.
Speaker 6 (41:59):
Again back to Bill Clinton, he at least had a
plan for we got to get you trained up. We
got to and he challenged them and said the world
has changed, and we've got to, you know, figure out
how to get there was there was no real effort
on behalf of the Democrats other than the say Tim
Wallas as a football coach, you know, and and then
you see those young men that that go towards the
(42:20):
more toxic masculinity, tough guy, bravado stuff, because there was
no alternative of discipline like all the attributes that a
coach appreciates. I mean, you you watch and listen to coaches,
whether they're you know, college basketball, college football, professional football.
They would never have Donald Trump behave that way on
(42:42):
their team or JD. Vance or any of these other
guys on the right. But absent that kind of discipline
and outreach to men in that way, there was nothing there,
and I think they that's why they defaulted so hard
to the Trump camp.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Let's go to James in Chicago. James, welcome to the
middle What did you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 20 (43:07):
Hey, good evening, gentlemen.
Speaker 21 (43:09):
I think I learned that the Democratic Party has a
real branding issue right now. They're not connecting with everyday people,
not Americans at least, and even choosing a candidate who
didn't relate made it a lot worse. What I really learned, though,
is that they just don't seem to know how to
rebrand or communicate in a way that resonates with where
(43:33):
people are economically and otherwise. And honestly, that's personally the
reason I didn't vote for the first time in a
presidential election since I've been eligible.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
You didn't vote at all?
Speaker 21 (43:46):
No, I have to believe in a candidate. Clearly I
can't relate to President Trump, but I also couldn't relate
to candidate Heres.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Either, James, Thank you, Phil Belly. You know, we actually
heard last week from a number of people who didn't vote,
which may explain why Kamala Harris's numbers were so much
lower than Biden's. While Trump probably is going to win
with just about the same amount of votes overall that
he had last time around in twenty twenty.
Speaker 8 (44:15):
Yeah, and I think that's what Donald Trump's strategy has
been from the get go. He knows that he has
a good forty five forty seven percent of the country
and Democrats, I think again, when we look at the
autopsy of this, I want people to realize everyone is
right here. This is a big country. This is a
pluralistic country. We have different points of view. It is race,
(44:36):
it is gender, it is economic anxiety. It is not
speaking to men of color and working class men, people
who work with their hands right in this country and
them feeling disassociated with this country and feeling that they
have to be told or policed in how they talk.
Speaker 9 (44:51):
It's a rough country.
Speaker 8 (44:52):
And many Democrats, rather than wanting to engage that conversation. Look,
I have a Harris Bundler who raised millions of dollars
for her text me the other day and say they're.
Speaker 9 (45:00):
Going to approach Stephen A. Smith about reading for president.
Speaker 8 (45:04):
Right like, Democrats are searching right out here for their identity.
And I think what they're gonna learn from this election
was that it wasn't that you it's not your ideology,
it's not your policy.
Speaker 9 (45:13):
It's not that you're too woke.
Speaker 8 (45:14):
It's that you don't know how to talk to people
anymore because you're too worried about offending someone. This is
an offensive country, just electing Donald Trump as president.
Speaker 9 (45:22):
People got to get used to that.
Speaker 8 (45:23):
People got to tough it up a little bit and
not be so policing people's language.
Speaker 9 (45:27):
I think I think Democrats are gonna maybe learn that.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
We got to get Stephen A. Smith on this show.
Speaker 6 (45:33):
I mean, I don't know if I don't know if
you guys have seen that, and I don't even know
if it was.
Speaker 7 (45:37):
Real or an AI generated thing.
Speaker 6 (45:40):
But there was a clip of President Kennedy that made
its way around the internet a few months back talking about,
you know, kids being overweight, and it was he was
kind of kicking off his his physical fitness agenda and
he was like, you know, you can't you can't have
chubby boys. Or I can't remember how he said it,
you know, but it was just it was like just
(46:02):
thinking about somebody saying that today and being so guarded
like Philip was just saying. It was like, you know,
there are expectations that we have of our children.
Speaker 7 (46:13):
There are ways we want to shape.
Speaker 6 (46:15):
Them and develop them because they're going into a very
competitive economic market. We are spending a ton of money
on healthcare because of diabetes and pre diabetes and a
terrible food system, and you know all of that egg
and food stuff that we're talking about that you know,
we've talked a little bit about doing the campaign with
(46:35):
Robert Kennedy and all that that stuff is real and
we don't want our kids to be sick. We do
want them to be healthy, and so these issues, you
just we've got to have enough civility and enough strength
internal strength to like half tough conversations nationally, and right
now it's like we can't do that. So you get
(46:57):
one party that's afraid to offend everybody and another party
that will just offend the other side to rally the
people who you know, are don't don't like the people
who are offended all the time.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I know, I'm I know I'm going to regret this.
I know I'm going to regret this, but I'm going
to go to one more caller and sneak it in
Martin in Houston, Martin, just briefly, go ahead, what did
you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 20 (47:22):
Hey, guys, good, good, even thanks for having me on
the show. This is my first time calling in this
a quick uh So my background. I did twelve years
in the Marine Corps. I have I have a graduate
degree and what I learned about the election in our country,
you know, as an American, is that we are we
are completely lacking in our civics understanding. I mean, you know,
(47:45):
across the board. You know, we use social media, you know,
uh too much in terms of you know, getting our
news and our and you know how our castition works
versus actually understand knowing you know how it works. And
I'm not understanding how like you know how elections. Doesn't
(48:06):
this affect today, but it affects you know, generations. You know,
so you know now that the current now that the
new new coming president and Senate and Congress are going
to be put in place. Yeah, you know, laws are
going to get changed. There's there's even a chance where
you know, uh, the Supreme Court will have a more
(48:28):
conservative just you know, judges.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
A very good point to end on a lack of
civic education. I would add to that lack of financial literacy.
I think that needs to be something that we focus
on so everyone can understand the ins and outs of
inflation and how you how you get out of it.
Tim Ryan, just before we go, and I really only
have ten seconds for you, but what do you know
about JD Vance that the country should know since she
(48:54):
ran against him.
Speaker 6 (48:56):
Uh, he will say and do whatever Donald Trump wants
them to say or do.
Speaker 14 (49:01):
Wow.
Speaker 9 (49:02):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Well, on that note, I want to thank my guest,
former Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan and USA Today Chief political
correspondent Philip Bailey. Thanks to both of you.
Speaker 9 (49:11):
Jeremy's always and.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Next week good news. If you're tired of election content.
We're going to be talking with three scientists from across
the geographic middle of our country, all of whom are
working on cutting edge research that affects us.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
All and don't forget to go to Listen to the
Middle dot com, where you can sign up for our
free weekly newsletter, and.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
The Middle is also available as a podcast in partnership
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Our intern is Anka Deshler, our technical director is Jason Croft.
Thanks to our podcast audience, our satellite radio listeners, and
(49:49):
the more than four hundred and twenty public radio stations
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to listen to the middle I'm Jeremy Hobson, and I
will talk to you next week.
Speaker 8 (50:01):
Names
Support for the Middle comes from the Tiwani Foundation, making
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More information on how you can support the Middle at
Listen to Them Middle dot com. Welcome to the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson and as always, our house, DJ Tolliver
(00:24):
is here. Hi Tolliver, Hey, Jeremy, Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We got some new listeners this week. We got a
KRPS and Kansas, Oklahoma, and Missouri, including Joplin, Missouri.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Joplin, which, fun fact, I learned is not named after
Scott Joplin. I thought because of Missouri, But no, that's
not good.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
That song Route sixty six, you know you know the song.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
So here we are, Tolliver. We now know that Republicans
are going to control both Houses of Congress in addition
to the White House come January, which means that even
though the polls showed a very tight race between Kamala
Harris and Donald Trump right to the end, in fact
it was a pretty decisive victory for Republicans. Trump won
every single swing state. He gained votes in nearly every
(01:04):
demographic while Kamala Harris lost votes, and when all the
votes are tallied, she will have received millions fewer than
Joe Biden did in twenty twenty. So our question this
hour what did the election teach you about America. We're
going to get to your calls in a moment at
eight four four four middle. That's eight four six four
three three five three. But first, last week we asked
(01:26):
you about your hopes and fears for the future following
the election. Here are some of the voicemails that came
in after the show.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Hi, Nicole, I'm a young bowlder from North Dakota, and
I think my biggest takeaway from this past election is
that people are apathetic. They don't really care anymore, especially
young boges. You know, people can't forward to care when
they can't afford to pay for their life. And that's
just the way it is right now.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Hi, this is Kyle from Minneapolis. What I hope for
this election cycle for people to learn is that it's
never really as bad as what people say it's going
to be, because all I'm seeing on social media is
just people losing it, equating Donald Trump with Nazis. You know,
he's been president before, and I'm sure he passed ballicies
that people didn't like and things like that, but it's
(02:13):
more important to unify than to divide.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
My name is Stephanie Jacob. I'm calling from Shorewood, Wisconsin.
I'm so glad you're continuing this program because lots of
us need it. We all need each other, we all
need to find out how we can possibly reach each other.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, thanks to everyone who called in, and you can
hear that entire episode on our podcast in partnership with
iHeart Podcasts, on the iHeart app or wherever you listen
to podcasts. So now to our topic this hour. What
did the election teach you about America? If you voted
for Trump or Harris or no one. We want to
hear from you, Taliver. Can you give us the number?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three are right to
us that listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Let's meet our panel USA Today Chief political correspondent Phil
Bailey is with us. Philip, great to have you, Jeremy
as always, and former Ohio Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan, founder
of We the People, which is a self described online
community for people exhausted by the current political discourse. Congressman Ryan,
welcome to you.
Speaker 6 (03:16):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, before we get to the funds, Congressman, you actually
have some experience with JD. Vance. He beat you for
that Senate seat in Ohio a couple of years ago.
A lot of soul searching right now among Democrats trying
to make sense of what happened. What is your take
what did you learn about America from this election?
Speaker 6 (03:36):
Well, I think, first and point thank you for having
the show and giving a kind of a form for
people to come together. I think people there's still a
lot of economic anxiety in the country. In a good
GDP and some good macroeconomic numbers, hasn't changed that. There's
(03:58):
been forty or fifty years of disinvestment, deindustrialization and all
the rest economic stagnation, a concentration of wealth, and that's
still in the DNA of the country for the most part.
And I also I think learned that most Americans want
(04:18):
us to focus on that. They don't want the focus
to be, you know, more of the cultural issues. They
don't want the division and all the rest, but they
want a laser light focus on the economic issues.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
Building things and all the rest, and I think at.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
The end of the day, slightly people trusted Donald Trump
to do that more than the Democrats.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Philip Hilly, what about you. You've been covering this campaign NonStop,
You've been all over the country talking with voters. What
did you learn.
Speaker 8 (04:47):
Well, look, it was twenty twelve when Barack Obama won
reelection to the surprise of many, including Republican presidential candidate
Mitt Romney, if you remember those documentaries on that race,
and at the time, Obama did that with only thirty
nine percent of the white vote. He won African Americans, Hispanics,
(05:07):
younger people, and many essays were written by Democrats and
their supporters about there was going to be this permanent
electoral college advantage that Democrats were going to have because
of the multi racial democracy that was beginning to emerge.
Speaker 9 (05:22):
I think Democrats misread that.
Speaker 8 (05:23):
They think that democted diversity and non white voter sort
of emerging was going to equal a more progressive society
or a liberal government. And Donald Trump, who cut his
teeth by the way in the most diverse city in
the world, New York City, understands tribalism and I think
the most consequential thing that happened really in this race. Jeremy,
(05:44):
and there were many in this unprecedented race, well, when
those Republican governors were shipping migrants into those cities and
putting black, poor people next to these migrant workers who
were competing over resources, and not only competing over resources, but.
Speaker 9 (05:58):
It really tested the idea of intersectionality.
Speaker 8 (06:01):
And I think that's what I think what we learned
from this race is that, look, a more diverse, multiracial
democracy is not necessarily a liberal government.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
One of the things I have to say that I
learned is how much the media have changed in the
last several years. And in this case, we had not
just Fox News, which it turns out, according to Hugh
I think was where more Americans got their political news
than any other source, was at times a twenty four
hour commercial for Donald Trump, but also X, which is
(06:32):
a very more important I think than a lot of
people give it credit for, had a Elon Musk billionaire
who was backing Donald Trump and can change the algorithm
however he wants. Tim Ryan, what about the media and
social media effect on this election?
Speaker 7 (06:47):
Do you think yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
I mean, I think they were able to build a narrative,
especially around the misinformation. There were a lot of things
that ended up not being very true that that spread
like wildfire. I kept, you know, thinking again and again
of Churchill's great quote that a.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
Lie is halfway around the world.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
While the truth is still home putting on its pants,
and that those lies, those that disinformation really made its way,
you know. And the Cats and the Dogs was like
the extreme version of that. But there were so many
other things that weren't true and that came out through
social media and people are just getting snippets of things,
(07:31):
and people are are still in their lane and these
quote unquote low information voters may hear a snippet here
or there, but they don't get the whole story. And
I think it became you know, border strength. Who's for
the economy and who's for the working class. Even through
all of that, Trump was seen again as the guy
(07:54):
who was able to do it. And I think I
think to some extent the must up the reinventing government stuff,
you know, which I thought was I really wanted the
Democrats to do it. And if we look back, remember
Bill Clinton had a reinventing government, so putting musk in
charge of a big business guy who's wealthy guy trying
to fix government. And that's That's the other thing I
(08:15):
would just add quickly is that government's broken. We know
it like it's broken on so many different levels. And
Trump captured that animosity, anxiety around it, knowledge of it,
as opposed to I think the Democrats stayed in the
same lane of you know, defending government in a lot
(08:36):
of ways, not doing anything different than Biden, not changing anything.
And that all permeated through social media in a very
very big way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
See jearing me.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
If everybody followed the middle, it would have been a
lot right.
Speaker 10 (08:50):
Here.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Let's let's get to the phones and Mike, who's in Cincinnati, Ohio. Mike,
welcome to the middle. What did you learn about the
country from the election?
Speaker 11 (08:59):
Well, I'm actually a lifelong Democrat who flipped to vote
for Trump in twenty sixteen, and it's it's just so
I understand both sides, and I still listen to NPR
every morning, and so I understand what Democrats are getting
in terms of news, and it still shocks me that
the liberal news media still doesn't seem to understand the
(09:21):
Trump voter, you know, like they didn't understand, like, you know,
a lot of people are like me. They were there,
former Democrat from Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
What did you do this time, Mike? Did you vote
for Trump again this time in twenty twenty four?
Speaker 11 (09:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, I voted for him in twenty twenty.
Speaker 10 (09:37):
Huh.
Speaker 11 (09:37):
You know. And I'm one of the reasons people so here,
I am. I see both sides. One of the reasons
people are so angry on the right at the government,
and I think there's a real problem with government is
for example, we were all censored on social media in
twenty twenty. I had I was tweeting information about Haunter
Biden's laptop, and I had two Twitter accounts shut down
(09:59):
with no it's explanation. I posted information on LinkedIn. I
had my LinkedIn account shutdown until I I I had
to like, you know, swear and promise I wouldn't say
anything about you know, the laptop or I've I had
a YouTube channel I just did for recreation. I started
it during COVID lockdown. That that was a shadowmand when
(10:23):
I made certain comments that that, you know, so people
are angry about things like that, and the other The
other point I want to make is having having voted
for I voted for Obama. And people don't understand this,
but many of you know one of Obama's big promises
was to he said he would keep special interests, lobbyists
(10:44):
and Washington d C. Insiders out of his administration. Then
you just completely broke that promise. So what is Trump
doing that? People that you know, as someone voted for
Obama for that reason, I thought, oh, we get it,
and then he didn't get it right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
That's an interesting point, Mike, thank you for that. Philip,
just briefly your thoughts, I mean on the first part,
which is that he believes the media is out of
touch with the Trump voter and didn't see it, which
would explain I guess maybe why a lot of people
were surprised by what happened.
Speaker 8 (11:11):
Well, I think you know what we learned from this
campaign is that podcasts, in particular, even non political podcast
I think when this history has written about this campaign,
Baron Trump, of President Trump's son, will play a big
role in this. I think that the use of podcasts
and the sort of new media, much in the same
way that old right wing talk was, I think that's
(11:31):
become the new train for a lot of conservative figures
and politicians.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
And we have a podcast, of course. But talib it
wasn't the economy that many people believe pushed Trump over
the top. It wouldn't be the first time, of course,
that a presidential candidate has won by promising to make
things better for working people. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Here's what Bill Clinton had to say to supporters after
his victory in nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 12 (11:52):
I remind you of end of the night, my fellow Americans,
that this victory was more than a victory of party.
It was a victory for the people who work hard
and play for the rules, a victory for the people
who feel left out and left behind but want to
do better. A victory for the people who are ready
to compete and win in the global economy, but who
need a government that offers a hand up, not a handout.
(12:15):
That is what we offer, and that is what tomorrow
we will begin to work to provide to all of you.
Speaker 9 (12:22):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Interesting to hear that.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Now, Yeah, seriously, thanks, more of.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Your calls coming up on the Middle. This is the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning. In the Middle
is a national call in show focused on elevating voices
from the middle geographically, politically, and philosophically, or maybe you
just want to meet in the middle. This hour, we're
asking you, what did the election teach you about America? Tolliver,
(12:46):
what is the number to call in?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four sixty four three three five three. You can also
write to us at Listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I'm joined by former Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan and USA
Today Chief political correspondent Philip Bailey and Tim Ryan. Before
we go back to the phones, what about the connection
that Donald Trump clearly has with so many Americans that
people are willing to look past a lot of things
and trust him almost unconditionally.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
It's really an incredible spell. He is cast on a
lot of people, millions and millions of Americans.
Speaker 7 (13:21):
I think there were a lot of people.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
That aren't in on, you know, weren't you know, enamored
with him personally and some of his behavior and rhetoric
and all that, but just think he would be better
policy wise, maybe for the country, and they were willing
to look past I think two things. I think one,
they want the system broken like it is broken, but
they want they want to flip the tables, you know,
(13:44):
they want to do things differently. They want to, you know,
fix the government. They want to put tariffs on, they
want to, you know, do all these reforms. And that's
the general sentiment I think across the population.
Speaker 7 (13:56):
He was the candidate that really tapped into it.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
That's one, and then two, I think it's really easy
to fall into the trap of like, Trump's a liar.
He lies, and he by all standards he's like an
Olympic Gold medalist of lying. But then when you look
at Democrats, you'd say, well, they were saying they're not
for open borders, but yet what I watch on TV
is open borders. Well, Biden's fine, he's just had a
(14:23):
bad night when we all watched what happened to him.
These were not Trump's anti democratic, He's not for democracy. Well,
it was the Democrats who shut down the primary, didn't
allow anyone to run. There were no debates in the
Democratic primary, really protected Biden got rid of New Hampshire
as the first state. So you could see, if you're
(14:44):
just an objective observer here, yeah he lies. But boy,
the Democrats aren't really being straightforward either. And I think
that's kind of why they give him a pass, because
then it defaults too while they all lie, and so
he's the best liar of all, and he's on their side,
and they go with him.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Let's go to the phones. Joseph is in Saint Louis. Joseph,
Welcome to the middle.
Speaker 9 (15:09):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
What did you learn about the election about the country
from the election?
Speaker 13 (15:14):
Good evening. First, let me just say I really appreciate
this show and its format. I mean I was really
alarmed a few years ago when all the comments sections
and newspapers and even my local TBS News roundtable for
the Saint Louis region stopped their calling segment because all
of our ruling elites, they didn't like what they were
(15:35):
hearing bubbling up from the bottom, and we're sticking their
fingers in their ears, kind of to Mike's point the
previous caller about online censorship. I'm also a double Obama
triple Trump voter, but the two things I learned were
just how desperately out of touch our ruling classes. I mean,
we had all the commanding types of power speaking with
(15:56):
one place, you know, academia, military, both wings of the
establishment parties, they were hyperventilating about fascism and booing their
eyes out about misinformation, and the people just weren't buying it.
And then the second thing I learned is that a
counter elite is forming a little splinter faction of people.
(16:17):
You know, the Musks of the world, and you know
a bunch of these other very successful what would normally
be ruling class evils. A lot of them probably don't
like Trump, a lot probably don't agree with them on everything,
but I agree that the current direction, the ruling political,
cultural hegemony of the country is on the wrong track.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Joseph, thank you very much for that. Philip Bailey, what
about that the elites and and sort of and just
people that don't don't want the elites quote unquote telling
them what to do.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
Well, this is the funniest part about Donald Trump's rise, right,
I mean, no one is more elite than Donald Trump.
I mean, like Elon Musk is the richest man of
the world.
Speaker 6 (16:54):
Right.
Speaker 9 (16:55):
So I hate to tell folks, but like, there's.
Speaker 8 (16:56):
Not a whole lot of commonality that Donald Trump and
Elon Musk have with your callers.
Speaker 9 (17:00):
Are most average Americans.
Speaker 8 (17:02):
I doubt that Donald Trump or Elon knows what the
cost of an egg or the cost of milk is
right now. But again, the Democratic Party is the party
of government right delivering services and bigger government. So when
people have a problem with government and the Democrats aren't
able to make that government better, who gets blamed for that?
(17:23):
It's often the Democrats. And I think the Congressman is
right in this regard that I've talked to different Democratic
bundlers and donors and activists who said, look, we haven't
had an honest primary in the Democratic Party since two
thousand and eight.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I mean, you could talk that as a brutal one too,
between the Jeni and Obama.
Speaker 8 (17:39):
And I think there's a lot of both cultural, political,
and intellectual protectionism going on on the Democratic side and
that they have sort of delayed for years in years,
and they haven't had to want to have some of
these very difficult conversations, not just about the cultural issues,
because guess what, race and gender, racism, and sexism are
not going away in this country. There is a considerable
amount of people in this country who are racists, who
(18:02):
are sexist, who voted for Donald Trump.
Speaker 9 (18:03):
It wasn't all of his supporters and voters.
Speaker 8 (18:05):
But it was enough, and that backlash since Barack Obama
was president hasn't gone anywhere, and I think it has
short circuited for a lot of white voters how they
think about our politics these days.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Let's go to Lynette in Lafayette, Louisiana. Lynnette, what did
you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 10 (18:23):
Hi?
Speaker 14 (18:24):
There, I learned that people are willing to vote against
their own best interests in order to just not have
a female in charge.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Why do you think that? Why do you think that
that's the reason that people didn't vote for Kamala Harris.
Speaker 14 (18:42):
I know that because just male and female people that
I know I've known for twenty five thirty years who
have always supported Democrats or who were independent and willing
to vote for Joe Biden. But as soon as Harris
became the nominee, then suddenly, oh, you know, we don't
(19:06):
like the way you know she was doing with her
job and office. And I ask people what exactly do
you think she was in charge of as vice president?
And no one could tell me. I have a political
science background of works in governments, so I know a
lot more than the average person, but I couldn't get
(19:27):
straight answers as to why they didn't like it, and
it was obvious by comments not just from people on
social media and people on television, but conversations that were
so sexist. And these same people who would be willing
to support would never support Trump any other way.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Lynette, thank you. Let me take that to the congressman.
Congressman Ryan, what do you think about that? Do you
agree that the gender of Kamala harri Us was an
issue for a lot of voters in this country.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
I don't think it was a lot.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
I'm sure there are some there's I mean, it's so random.
How many people make a decision on who they vote
for and you ask them and they give you some
thing that you've never thought of. So I'm sure there
are some out there who, you know, weren't going to
vote for a woman. But I think the reality of
it is this is a change election where sixty five
(20:29):
percent of the people in the country wanted to change.
Speaker 7 (20:31):
They think the country's on the wrong track.
Speaker 6 (20:35):
And Kamala Harris was never able to kind of separate
herself from Joe Biden, who's the sitting president, sitting at
forty percent approval. That's the main driver of the election.
And you know, if you get off of that main point,
you know, I think you're talking anecdotally about how people voted.
(20:58):
But the main throat of this was people feel frustrated.
It is inflation, it's these pocketbook issues. They don't want
to be divided, and they felt like we are now
and they put that on Biden. And that was the
anchor around Kamala Harris's neck and she couldn't shake it.
(21:19):
And you know, she made a couple of mistakes on
the view and other places where she said she wouldn't
change anything from the Biden administration, and that I think
was the killer for her when she couldn't separate, because
now you got the anchor around your.
Speaker 7 (21:35):
Neck and she's still almost almost pulled it off.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right at the end of the day, it is actually
going to be, you know, within a point something like
that in the popular vote, and not that big of
a difference in the swing states. But they all swung
the same way, as we said, Philip Billy, whether or
not that's true that maybe not enough people made the
decision based on the gender. Are there conversations happening in
(21:59):
the Democratic Party right now after they've just lost with
two female candidates in the last three election cycles that
they aren't going to do that again, fairly or unfairly.
Speaker 8 (22:10):
No, I don't think you're seeing from the at least
the early autopsies of Democrats saying, oh, it's a problem
with having a woman on the top of the ticket.
Let's remember that Lisa Rochester became the first black woman
elected to the US and out of Delaware. Angela also
Brooks broke that same ceiling for the US Senate in Maryland.
Your multi racial democracy is well and alive. It's just
(22:31):
that you still have to make an argument Democrats who
can't simply think that, oh, the country's more diverse, so
therefore people are just going to vote democratic. There were
men of color in these cities, right who in Detroit,
in Philadelphia who are ex Hispanic men, black men. These
are working classmen too, who say, look, I always vote Democratic,
but I look at these things out out of my neighborhood.
(22:51):
I look at my pocketbook, and I'm not seeing any
sort of progress or change. No, I don't like Donald Trump.
Remember after the first assassination attempt Jeremy, President Trump's approval
ratings are likability to not go up, and they tried
to shoot and kill him right. So this was not
a oh, we love Donald Trump. This was we loved
the times that Donald Trump when he was president. We
remembered the nostalgia of twenty nineteen and twenty twenty. That
(23:14):
was what people, I think were largely voting for. And
because Harris refused to make a clean break and say
at least one or two things, Madam Vice President, that
you disagree with the president on, I think they gave
a lot of folks a pause ofve Yeah, let's go
back to the old Let's let's rewind the tape and
go back to the old days.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
All these people carrying pocketbooks, this pocket let's update the
cash out cash out.
Speaker 9 (23:37):
There we go cash out.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
We got some comments online. Brian and mischlawaka Indiana says
the election taught me that too many Americans prioritized the
price of eggs over their civic responsibility to protect democracy
and finding solutions to existential problems like industrial pollution. Ziff
in Houston, Texas says, what I've learned about America since
the election is that the power of the vote can
be used as a protest. I feel like a lot
(24:01):
of people aren't talking about how much impact the Uncommitted
movement had.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Interesting Yeah, you can reach out to us at listen
to the Middle dot com or again at eight four
Middle that's eight four four four six four three three
five three. And let's go to Cynthia, who's in Chicago. Cynthia,
what did you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 15 (24:23):
I learned that people do not have a capacity to
understand or be discerning about their sources of information. Donald
Trump repeatedly says things like they say this, or they
say that, what is who is they? And when people
are getting their information from the manisphere or from Facebook
(24:47):
or from just social media. And I have friends and
loved ones who do this, whether it reinforces their original
biases or not. They ford things without even bothering to
check where did it come from. And I think that
that has played a role. I you know, I understand
that the Democratic Party they have leaned or some of
(25:10):
the left wing kind of things. I don't think x
Y transgender people should be competing against xx females on
any level. And I think there's some common sense things
that on the left. You know, the people in the
middle of the Democratic Party don't agree with. But you
know that left leaning stuff. They say this, they say,
(25:33):
you know they're going to and when people don't have
time because we're working so hard to really do any
kind of investigation about what is it that they say,
we just forward it.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Right, Cynthia, Thank you, Congressman Ryan. We've talked a little
bit about the media, but let me just focus on
what Cynthia said there in the last half of that,
which is some people have looked at what happened and
said that the Democrats went too far to the left,
they they got too woke. What do you think about that?
(26:09):
And did you did you learn anything about sort of
the platform of the Democratic Party that needs to change?
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Well, I think, you know, and I agree with what
Carville has been saying. I think, you know, Kamala kind
of stayed away from that stuff, but it's still out there.
You know, the Democrats are still seen as the the
woke party that wants to defund the police and open
borders and all the things that I mentioned earlier, still
(26:36):
seen that way. They're still seen as the party of redistribution,
of We're going to tax the wealthy and put money
out there for people that that aren't necessarily out.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
There working and doing things right.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
So you know, I think that that piece of it
really is still kind of in the zeitge, still in
the in the in the you know, uh, in the
air for Democrats, and it's gonna take a complete reboot
of the Democratic Party to do it. And it's you know,
(27:12):
there's gonna be some bumps along the way, but we've
got to get back, you know what to what Bill
Clinton said and the clip you guys just played, and
the key phrase there is get the government to work
on behalf of these people. Now you think about you know,
Democrats saying we're not going to change anything, and we're
you know, the coming out of the pandemic, it was
(27:33):
just kind of like spend money and and and Trump
saying we are going to reform this government. We're gonna
make it work for you again. We're gonna put TIFFs
on these products coming in that are you know, helping
displace you. And there's a lot of argument within whether
or not that's gonna work. It may make matters worse
with the terrorists, as we all know, but clearly he
was able to get on that side of it as
(27:56):
opposed to the Democrats still carrying this anchor around on
their neck. Of v punt on the police. So I
don't think it could have been a neutral stance of
just not using that language or appearing like you're in
line with that stuff. It had to be a hard break.
It had to be a hard break on natural gas
in Western Pa to displace coal, to bend the curve
(28:19):
on climate. It had to be a hard break on
crypto and blockchain. It had to be a hard break
on you know, maybe economic policy or student loans or
something like that, growing the pie, not talking about just
taxing the rich and blaming them and then handing out checks.
And you know, if you don't get away from that,
(28:39):
that that.
Speaker 7 (28:42):
Messaging is going to carry on.
Speaker 6 (28:43):
And it carried on through this election, and I think
it was a big part of, you know, why we
couldn't pull it off.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I'm just going to sneak in one more call real
quick before this break, Ryan and Pittsburgh. Ryan, what did
you learn about the election about the.
Speaker 11 (28:55):
Country, Heygreeving.
Speaker 16 (28:59):
This election very much reminded me of a lecture I
saw by Noam Chansky about the subjectivity and power of
words and how we all understand and use words differently.
I've had some very candid conversations with colleagues and some
neighbors who voted for Obama but then pivoted over to Trump,
and I asked them questions such as, do you really
(29:20):
think Trump and the Republicans are like the party or
our option for progress. Some of the responses I got were, well,
progress is not thousands of people living on the streets
of San Francisco, nor is it cancel culture that got
my wife fired for using a wrong pronoun And I
really thought deeply about that word, because I know on
the left the Democrats like to believe themselves as a
(29:42):
party of progress. But some people when they think of progress,
they think of economic issues. They think about are most
of the stores on their main street in a small
town in Rothern, Michigan clothes And we don't see. I
think that this has always been the case, but it's
especially so right now. We don't share a common body
of the words we use and how we use them
(30:04):
or how they would be applied. And you know, traditionally
the Republicans were like the Party of tradition and security
and order, and the two parties don't really have that
sort of yeah, secure vocabulary.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
More interesting point, Ryan, thank you for that and Tolliver,
you know we have seen ruling parties around the world
pushed out thanks to things like inflation.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah, Japan, New Zealand, South Africa and the UK where
the Labor Party overturned fourteen years of conservative power in
the last election. There here's party leader Keir Starmer delivering
his victory speech and claiming a mandate.
Speaker 17 (30:39):
But a mandate like this comes with a great responsibility.
Our task is nothing less than renewing the ideas to
hold this country together, national renewal. Whoever you are, where
have you started in life, If you work hard, if
you play by the rules, this country should give you
(31:02):
a fair chance to get on. It should always respect
your contribution. And we have to restore that.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I think he plagiarized Bill Clinton. There, TOLLIVERD what do
you think?
Speaker 6 (31:13):
I think so?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I think it's a winning message. No matter what year
you're talking about, evergreen, it is evergreen. We'll be right
back with more of the middle. This is the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour, we're asking you what did
the election teach you about America. You can call us
at eight four four four Middle, or you can reach
out to us at listen to the middle dot Com.
I'm joined by USA Today Chief political correspondent Philip Bailey
(31:37):
and former Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan. And before we go
back to the phones, Philip Bailey, what do you think
Republicans learned from this election? How might Trump govern differently
than before?
Speaker 12 (31:49):
Well?
Speaker 8 (31:49):
I think you know what will be interesting to see
here is what has Donald Trump learned? I think from
these early appointments. You know, RFK is HHS secretary of
Matt Gates's AG.
Speaker 9 (32:01):
I think he's.
Speaker 8 (32:02):
Testing the ground for how much control do I really
have over the Republican Party. Right there's the shadow of
Washington that I think could come into play here with
the shadows of Congress. May her tail him a little bit.
Thune has said that he's going to give Trump a
large or a wide berth here on these appointments. The
Gates appointment to AG, I think will be the biggest test.
(32:22):
Do Republican senators have the stomach for Matt Gates? Does
the country have the stomach for someone who is so controversial?
I mean there is still even though the ethics investigation
was it released, I guarantee you we may be seeing
pieces of the investigation leak out in the next couple
of days and weeks here. So I think for Republicans, Jeremy,
(32:42):
the test will be how far can we go with this?
Did the people really give us a mandate to fix
their economic situation or do they give us a mandate
to change fundamentally how the federal government behaves. That's going
to be a Republican argument. Very interested to see though,
how Democrats respond. There are some Democrats, I think, who
will try to fight and be a part of the resistance.
But there may be some Democrats Jimmy, I'm hearing this already,
(33:04):
who say, you know what, this is what the American
people wanted side with.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Governor Jared Poulus came out and sort of with a
kind of a supportive quote about Robert F. Kennedy Junior.
We'll see if that lasts as we get further into that.
Let me go to John, who's in Englewood, Florida. John,
welcome to the middle Go ahead, what did you learn
about the country from the election?
Speaker 10 (33:28):
Thank you? Well, I didn't really learn a lot because
I'm sixty nine and I'm retired Navy. I did twenty
years running engine rooms. But I haven't heard anybody really
share my opinion that president is not a job I
would want at all. And the way I looked at
(33:50):
it is I was voting for this president, not a saint.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
So you voted for Trump.
Speaker 10 (33:56):
You know, we vote, Yeah, we've all got our cross
to bear, you know, but who would do be the
best job as president?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
And you voted for Donald Trump?
Speaker 10 (34:08):
Yes? I did?
Speaker 9 (34:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:10):
And was what was the main reason for you, John?
Speaker 10 (34:14):
The main reason? Well, there was really no substance with
Knaa has. She was just a character assassination the whole
time and all there wasn't any we all meet her
in her platform Economy the Border.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, John, thank you very much for that. Congressman Ryan,
what about that you sort of touched on that, and
she wasn't able to articulate a major difference with President
Biden in that interview on the view. But also do
you think she was that maybe Democrats would learn here
that Kamala Harris was just too careful, wasn't really opening
up about what she really wanted for the country.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that the
lane to probably beat Trump was on some ideas and
we didn't We've heard a little bit about housing, an
opportunity society, which I don't think ever got a lot
of meat put on the bone, and so there weren't
those kind of you know again, going back to Bill Clinton,
(35:23):
it was about investing in the skilled workers. It was
about reforming government. It was about you know, what he
wanted to do with health care and education to prepare
for the twenty first century. There was like this big, broad,
you know program that they had. And I work now
with the Progressive Policy Institute that's run by Will Marshall,
(35:45):
who was kind of Clinton's idea guy back in the day,
and the PPI is still cranking out great ideas, but
that it was an idea factory, and they were able
not to just have policy ideas. And as Jimmy Carter,
one of Jimmy Carter's guys to say that Democrats are
famous for showing up at a gunfight with a ten
point policy plan, so they But what Clinton was able
(36:11):
to do, and I think Obama to a certain extent,
was like fit those policies into the context of.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Where we are today.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
How does that mean America is going to be more competitive?
How does it mean America is going to be stronger?
How is there going to be a ladder for people
to climb up out of poverty and into the middle class,
or out of the working poor and into the middle class.
But those ideas and everyone's part of this, and it
was the wall had fell, and that was the context.
Now it's a different context that I think Trump kind
(36:41):
of grabbed onto. Like the world's changing, we don't need
defense all over the world. China's cheating, we got to
put tariffs on there. Government's broken and bloated. We need
to make sure we reform it. So he was able
on the idea front, I think, And who knows how
it comes out, I mean, because.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Right he did make a lot of promises that he
probably a lot of promises.
Speaker 6 (37:01):
I mean, he's a con man of biblical proportions. So
we'll see what happens. And just quickly on a note
of his new administration, all these appointees.
Speaker 7 (37:12):
It's interesting.
Speaker 6 (37:13):
Political had a nice article today about how he's hiring
people who have conflicting views. You know, Rubio is more
of a hawk and Tulsea Gabbard's more of a dove,
and they're in the two big national security positions. That's
going to happen throughout his administration, which is exactly how
he ran his businesses. So it's going to be interesting
to see that conflict as well. Let alone the test
(37:36):
of power in the Senate, because those Republican senators who
are saying bad things about Matt Gates right now, if
Trump really wants them, and he says, you will have
a primary in two years and I will endorse your
opponent in Arkansas, in Oklahoma or wherever they're gonna maybe
reevaluate their position, They'll be interesting to see how far
(37:57):
Trump can take it.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Let's go to LaToya in Olympia, Washington, LaToya, What did
you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 18 (38:06):
Good afternoons, gentlemen. What I learned about this country, especially
as a Black woman and Democrat living here, is that
I literally watched an entire culture of people, especially post
George Floyd, repurpose a word woke, wke that came out
of the black community long ago for their own games.
(38:26):
And so what I see, especially living in the on
the left coast right, what I see is upper middle class,
especially white women, pushing agendas that do not matter to
the country. So, even living here where wages are competitive
and it is about what you can buy and what
you can afford. The issues that matter to Black communities
(38:50):
and Latino communities who shifted a lot to lords Trump
were not addressed. So LGBTQIA issues while value was pushed
too hard on a country that did not understand or
want to understand it because of the current economic crisis
for working class families. And so we see a liberal
agenda that went too far left. It neglected the communities
(39:11):
that it said it is good for, and instead we
have so called progressive people shoving in ideology or ideology
is down everyone's throat, and forgetting the art of having
a conversation because the opposition doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
LaToya, thank you for that. Philip Elli, your thoughts on that.
Another We're hearing a theme here which is basically like
elites not connected to working Americans.
Speaker 9 (39:36):
Well, yeah, and I think that.
Speaker 8 (39:37):
Look, after the pandemic, there were two groups of people
in this country who saw their life expectancy take the
biggest hit. It was Hispanic men and it was Black men.
You didn't hear any mainstream Democrat talk about that. Over
the past four years. The Harris campaign made a gamble.
They thought that this election was going to hinge on
what they were calling the shy Harris voter, this moderate
maybe even republican, white conservative woman whose husband was a
(40:00):
Trump voter, and that they were going to go into
that voting booth and vote for her and defy their
husbands in some sort of way with it. And didn't
anticipate was that this election was going to have a
lot of so called shy Trump voters. Working class men
of color in these urban areas who are not fans
of Donald Trump in his personality will tell you to
your face, I don't like how Donald Trump talks about race,
(40:21):
don't like how he talks about me or my communities
or whatever else. But those men, those working classmen of color,
because look, the Democratic Party hasn't won working class white
men in sixty years. Right, Like, when we look at
this at the end of the day, what we're going
to find is is that I think working class men
of color have now become the new swing voter, and
they're telling the Democratic Party that, yes, you're listening far
(40:41):
too much to college educated white liberal women and not
listening to us as part of that coalition. And many
of them felt like, you know what, Donald Trump, I
may not like him, but there's a casino that's open,
and I got a.
Speaker 6 (40:51):
Chance also just to jump in here real quick.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
My perception was that Vice President Harris was sort of
avoiding those LGBTQIA issues, so she.
Speaker 8 (41:02):
Did not run a liberal campaign. She ran a citrus campaign.
Like it wasn't this very far left reaching campaign. I
think the problem it wasn't a policy campaign either. If
you were at that Republican National Convention. Look, Haulkgan wasn't
up there talking about policy. Amber Rose wasn't there talking
about policy. It was strength versus joy that I think
at a time where the country wanted justice, the Democrats
just simply misstepped and didn't get the messaging right. And
(41:24):
they haven't got the messaging right for some of their
key voters for a number of years now.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
Well, if I could, if I could just add real quick,
because I think, you know, Philip's absolutely right on the
mail piece, on the on the men piece, and it's
not you know, it's it's men are hurting today. The
number one indicator of suicide today is whether or not
you're a man.
Speaker 19 (41:47):
You know, So the the the the idea that we
can ignore the plight among young men and boys and
men who are trying to navigate this very complicated world.
Speaker 6 (41:59):
Again back to Bill Clinton, he at least had a
plan for we got to get you trained up. We
got to and he challenged them and said the world
has changed, and we've got to, you know, figure out
how to get there was there was no real effort
on behalf of the Democrats other than the say Tim
Wallas as a football coach, you know, and and then
you see those young men that that go towards the
(42:20):
more toxic masculinity, tough guy, bravado stuff, because there was
no alternative of discipline like all the attributes that a
coach appreciates. I mean, you you watch and listen to coaches,
whether they're you know, college basketball, college football, professional football.
They would never have Donald Trump behave that way on
(42:42):
their team or JD. Vance or any of these other
guys on the right. But absent that kind of discipline
and outreach to men in that way, there was nothing there,
and I think they that's why they defaulted so hard
to the Trump camp.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Let's go to James in Chicago. James, welcome to the
middle What did you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 20 (43:07):
Hey, good evening, gentlemen.
Speaker 21 (43:09):
I think I learned that the Democratic Party has a
real branding issue right now. They're not connecting with everyday people,
not Americans at least, and even choosing a candidate who
didn't relate made it a lot worse. What I really learned, though,
is that they just don't seem to know how to
rebrand or communicate in a way that resonates with where
(43:33):
people are economically and otherwise. And honestly, that's personally the
reason I didn't vote for the first time in a
presidential election since I've been eligible.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
You didn't vote at all?
Speaker 21 (43:46):
No, I have to believe in a candidate. Clearly I
can't relate to President Trump, but I also couldn't relate
to candidate Heres.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Either, James, Thank you, Phil Belly. You know, we actually
heard last week from a number of people who didn't vote,
which may explain why Kamala Harris's numbers were so much
lower than Biden's. While Trump probably is going to win
with just about the same amount of votes overall that
he had last time around in twenty twenty.
Speaker 8 (44:15):
Yeah, and I think that's what Donald Trump's strategy has
been from the get go. He knows that he has
a good forty five forty seven percent of the country
and Democrats, I think again, when we look at the
autopsy of this, I want people to realize everyone is
right here. This is a big country. This is a
pluralistic country. We have different points of view. It is race,
(44:36):
it is gender, it is economic anxiety. It is not
speaking to men of color and working class men, people
who work with their hands right in this country and
them feeling disassociated with this country and feeling that they
have to be told or policed in how they talk.
Speaker 9 (44:51):
It's a rough country.
Speaker 8 (44:52):
And many Democrats, rather than wanting to engage that conversation. Look,
I have a Harris Bundler who raised millions of dollars
for her text me the other day and say they're.
Speaker 9 (45:00):
Going to approach Stephen A. Smith about reading for president.
Speaker 8 (45:04):
Right like, Democrats are searching right out here for their identity.
And I think what they're gonna learn from this election
was that it wasn't that you it's not your ideology,
it's not your policy.
Speaker 9 (45:13):
It's not that you're too woke.
Speaker 8 (45:14):
It's that you don't know how to talk to people
anymore because you're too worried about offending someone. This is
an offensive country, just electing Donald Trump as president.
Speaker 9 (45:22):
People got to get used to that.
Speaker 8 (45:23):
People got to tough it up a little bit and
not be so policing people's language.
Speaker 9 (45:27):
I think I think Democrats are gonna maybe learn that.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
We got to get Stephen A. Smith on this show.
Speaker 6 (45:33):
I mean, I don't know if I don't know if
you guys have seen that, and I don't even know
if it was.
Speaker 7 (45:37):
Real or an AI generated thing.
Speaker 6 (45:40):
But there was a clip of President Kennedy that made
its way around the internet a few months back talking about,
you know, kids being overweight, and it was he was
kind of kicking off his his physical fitness agenda and
he was like, you know, you can't you can't have
chubby boys. Or I can't remember how he said it,
you know, but it was just it was like just
(46:02):
thinking about somebody saying that today and being so guarded
like Philip was just saying. It was like, you know,
there are expectations that we have of our children.
Speaker 7 (46:13):
There are ways we want to shape.
Speaker 6 (46:15):
Them and develop them because they're going into a very
competitive economic market. We are spending a ton of money
on healthcare because of diabetes and pre diabetes and a
terrible food system, and you know all of that egg
and food stuff that we're talking about that you know,
we've talked a little bit about doing the campaign with
(46:35):
Robert Kennedy and all that that stuff is real and
we don't want our kids to be sick. We do
want them to be healthy, and so these issues, you
just we've got to have enough civility and enough strength
internal strength to like half tough conversations nationally, and right
now it's like we can't do that. So you get
(46:57):
one party that's afraid to offend everybody and another party
that will just offend the other side to rally the
people who you know, are don't don't like the people
who are offended all the time.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I know, I'm I know I'm going to regret this.
I know I'm going to regret this, but I'm going
to go to one more caller and sneak it in
Martin in Houston, Martin, just briefly, go ahead, what did
you learn about the country from the election?
Speaker 20 (47:22):
Hey, guys, good, good, even thanks for having me on
the show. This is my first time calling in this
a quick uh So my background. I did twelve years
in the Marine Corps. I have I have a graduate
degree and what I learned about the election in our country,
you know, as an American, is that we are we
are completely lacking in our civics understanding. I mean, you know,
(47:45):
across the board. You know, we use social media, you know,
uh too much in terms of you know, getting our
news and our and you know how our castition works
versus actually understand knowing you know how it works. And
I'm not understanding how like you know how elections. Doesn't
(48:06):
this affect today, but it affects you know, generations. You know,
so you know now that the current now that the
new new coming president and Senate and Congress are going
to be put in place. Yeah, you know, laws are
going to get changed. There's there's even a chance where
you know, uh, the Supreme Court will have a more
(48:28):
conservative just you know, judges.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
A very good point to end on a lack of
civic education. I would add to that lack of financial literacy.
I think that needs to be something that we focus
on so everyone can understand the ins and outs of
inflation and how you how you get out of it.
Tim Ryan, just before we go, and I really only
have ten seconds for you, but what do you know
about JD Vance that the country should know since she
(48:54):
ran against him.
Speaker 6 (48:56):
Uh, he will say and do whatever Donald Trump wants
them to say or do.
Speaker 14 (49:01):
Wow.
Speaker 9 (49:02):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Well, on that note, I want to thank my guest,
former Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan and USA Today Chief political
correspondent Philip Bailey. Thanks to both of you.
Speaker 9 (49:11):
Jeremy's always and.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Next week good news. If you're tired of election content.
We're going to be talking with three scientists from across
the geographic middle of our country, all of whom are
working on cutting edge research that affects us.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
All and don't forget to go to Listen to the
Middle dot com, where you can sign up for our
free weekly newsletter, and.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
The Middle is also available as a podcast in partnership
with iHeart on the iHeart app or wherever you listen
to podcasts. We are brought to you by Longnokmedia, distributed
by Illinois Public Media and Urbana Illinois and produced by
Harrison Patino, Danny Alexander, Sam Burmis, Dawes and John Barth.
Our intern is Anka Deshler, our technical director is Jason Croft.
Thanks to our podcast audience, our satellite radio listeners, and
(49:49):
the more than four hundred and twenty public radio stations
that are making it possible for people across the country
to listen to the middle I'm Jeremy Hobson, and I
will talk to you next week.
Speaker 8 (50:01):
Names
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