BONUS: Memphis Blues

Interviews with Ryan Jones, historian at the National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis, & Brian Dominski, court reporter for the '93 HBO trial and the '99 Civil Trial.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the MLK Tapes, a production of I Heart
Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in
this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or
individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those
of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener
discretion is advised. The National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis

(00:27):
traces the history of slavery in America and then follows
the nation's long struggle for human rights. Its rooms portray
lunch counter sit ins, freedom rides, bus boycotts, and burned churches.
To walk through its halls is a moving experience, made
all the more exceptional because the museum is built into
the shell of the former Lorraine Motel, where Martin Luther

(00:50):
King was murdered. Being at the Lorraine also helps to
bring into focus some of the unresolved questions surrounding the
death of Dr King, even more so because in two
thousand and two, the museum acquired the neighboring rooming house
from where James Earl Ray was said to have fired
the fatal bullet. The rooming house has been renovated to

(01:10):
accommodate the public and is access from the museum by
way of a tunnel. Its interior is dedicated to displays
that pertained to the assassination, such as a rifle said
to be the murder weapon and a replica of Ray's
famous white Mustang. But a few places have been preserved
in the condition in which they were found after the murder,

(01:32):
such as the bedroom that Ray had rented in the
bathroom from which he was said to have fired the shot.
When I visited Memphis last year, I was joined by
a storian, Ryan Jones, who accompanied me through both the
Lorraine and the rooming house sections of the museum. I
was not permitted to record any sound, so the voice
of Mr Jones that you'll hear in this segment was

(01:54):
recorded at a later date. Mr Jones had grown up
in Memphis and has been with the museum for ten years.
He is an expert on the King assassination, and I
asked him what got him interested in the case. It
wasn't until I moved back to Memphis in ven I

(02:16):
think I was watching a talk show. It may have
been Montel Williams to be exact, and the King family,
some of his children appeared on that talk show and
they were talking of getting James Lay, the accused assassin,
a trial here in Memphis, which he never got in
nineteen sixty eight and sixty nine. And I really didn't

(02:37):
get back into it until I began starting to work
at the museum. And it was there when I realized
that the museum holds all of the state's evidence against
James Lay and its collections. And I just began to
go by box by box, file by file, left no file,
you know, and turned. So I just began to do

(02:59):
my own individual research and began to interview people. And
almost ten years later, you know, I feel like I
have a pathway of what what truly happened here in
Memphis at the Lorraine on April fourth. It should be
noted here that on the issue of whether James Earl

(03:19):
Ray was a lone assassin or if others were involved,
the museum itself takes what it calls a neutral position.
The people who work there are entitled to their opinions,
but we should remember that Ryan Jones is speaking here
on his own and not for the museum itself. Of course,
working at the museum in the old Lorraine Motel, Jones

(03:41):
is in an excellent position to have an informed opinion
about certain matters. For example, the King always stay at
the Lorraine when he came to Memphis, as some said
or did. He usually stay at other places, and was
shamed or maneuvered into staying at the Lorraine because a
certain reception had been planned. There's this myth that has

(04:02):
been floating around for the past fifty two years that
Dr King was a normal guest, and even that he
stayed at the Lorraine on numerous occasions. This is, however,
not true. This is indeed false. The Reverend James Lawson,
who lived in Memphis at the time, whom King met
with the day before his assassination, stated affirmatively many times

(04:25):
that when he came to Memphis, they would stayed at
his house, They'd go to the Peabody, They'd stayed at
the Admiral Bimbo in March. The night following the Memphis
March that became a riot, King stayed at the Rivermont
Hotel and held a press conference there the next morning,
where he condemned the riot but couldn't say for sure
how it had started, though there were those in his

(04:46):
camp who believed the window smashing and looting had somehow
been arranged in advance. Seven years later, in congressional hearings,
it would be revealed that the same morning that King
was speaking to the press, a document was being produced
by the FBI in Washington. It was in the form
of a press release that criticized King for staying at

(05:07):
the river Mont and specifically named the Lorraine Motel as
the more appropriate place for him to stay. It bore
the approving initials of Jedker Hoover and was to be
circulated to what the FBI called friendly news outlets. The
very next day, on the twenty nine, there is a
press release calling Dr King a hypocrite, and it pretty

(05:30):
much states that you are staying at a predominantly white
business and you're asking African Americans to boycott white merchants
when you're not even giving business to the lavish and
plus Lorraine Motel. This was an FBI memorandum that was
released on March nine, nineteen. Why what the FBI care

(05:54):
where Dr King stays at this time, unless of Lorraine
Motel was a particular or area that they needed him
to be at. And of course, you know, he was
eventually moved from his original room which was down below
and was moved upstairs three or six and just how
did this room change come about? There are two stories,

(06:16):
both come from the owner of the Rain, Walter Bailey.
Mr Bailey told this story to an investigative reporter by
the name of Wayne Chastain, and the stories states that
someone who appeared to be very tall and athletic with
it like complexion, came to Mrs Bailey, who did all

(06:42):
of the hotel reservations, and stated that Dr King did
not want this nice room inside and away from the
original trajectory, and that he wanted room three uh six
on the second floor. The second story is that it

(07:03):
was a phone call from Atlanta that was made so
that the Bailey's got a phone call from Atlanta a
day or two before they arrived, stating that Dr King
specifically wanted room three O six. Why two stories, both
supposedly from Mr Bailey, we don't know. But if the
real story involved the phone call from Atlanta, why would

(07:26):
Walter Bailey make up another story of a tall, athletic
man coming to the Lorraine to make the room change.
It makes no sense. But if it were the other
way around and the room was changed by someone posing
as an advanced man, a description of that man might,
upon further thought, be a dangerous story to tell and

(07:46):
give birth to the supposed phone call. Of course, a
quick conversation with Mrs Bailey, who changed the room, could
clear up the situation, but as Mr Jones explains, that
was never possible. Her name was Lorie Bailey and she
really was the one who ran the Loraine Motel. On

(08:07):
the afternoon of April four, Dr King speaks with Mrs
Bailey standing on the balcony and he says, listen to
Mrs Bailey, if the food over at Reverend Coles is home,
it's not good. I'm gonna come back and I'm counting
on you, and she kind of blushed instead of course,
anything for you, Dr King, And and and they go back

(08:29):
into the kitchen area of the diner of the Lorraine.
Then the shot rings out and the Bailey's here it
from inside. They walk outside and they see Dr King
Worley wounded on the second floor outside of room three
of six, and immediately Mrs Bailey says, why, why why.
She took her hand, and she kept hitting the side

(08:52):
of her temple to the point where he could see
her blood vessels moving oddly enough, Mr Bailey left the
Lorainmotel a few hours. He lads his wife when there's
police and investigators all over the motel's grounds, and he
goes to his other job at the Holiday Inn on
Lamar Avenue, and he gets a call from his brother,

(09:16):
Theatrice Bailey, and Beatrice says, Lord's not an answer and
she's not answering, and then they finally get to her
and they found her slumped over and she's gone into
a coma to a stroke where she never gains consciousness
again um and actually dies at nine am on April
and nine nine. We know now that a bud vessel

(09:40):
ruptured in her brain. Mr Jones and I walked through
the tunnel to the basement of the rooming house and
then take the elevator up to the second floor. We
come upon a glass case displaying the rifle that was
found on the street just minutes after the shooting. Mr
Joe Owns gives a small laugh and informs me that

(10:02):
the scope on the rifle is still not properly cited.
The rooming house has been gut renovated, so on the
inside it doesn't look like it did in but the
room that Ray rented and the bathroom down the hall
had been recreated to be replicas of what was found
right after King was killed. Over the years, a lot
has been made about Ray choosing room five B because

(10:24):
of its window rather than the only other room which
had no view but didn't have a stove. I asked
Jones about five B and what problems it might present too,
would be assassin. You are able to see the Lorrain Mootel,
and you are able to see the second for balcony
of the Lorain Motel as well. Now, however, your purpose

(10:47):
is to assassinate Martin Luther King Jr. And you're using
a rifle, you have a significant problem in order to
get a sufficient trajectory one where have to walk outside
of the bedroom of five B down the hall and
into a community bathroom in order to even get an attent.

(11:12):
The problem with that window was although you could see
the rear part of the Lorraine Motel, you could not
see room three or six where Dr King was staying
without opening the window and leaning out. And no one
has ever said the shot was fired from there. I
asked Mr Jones to describe the bathroom, but I encouraged
the listener to look on our website to see the

(11:33):
photo of the tiny room to better understand the issues
that play here. When you look inside of this very
small community bathroom that was shared by other people who
were staying on the same floor, you see a commode,
you see a very small sink, and into the left
and the corner right beneath a partially open window, there's

(11:57):
a bathtub. Now here's a significant red flag with that.
James Alray was six ft in hight and the weapon
that he admitted to buying in Birmingham, Alabama, a few
days prior to Dr King's death is not a small
weapon at all. It's a fairly large weapon with a

(12:18):
scope as well. And James Alay, we know, was a
right handed marksman. I'm at six feet about five nine,
and I've gotten into that bathtub with a rifle that's
not the size of the one that rifle was accused
of musing, and it was almost impossible for myself, also

(12:40):
right handed, to have gotten a sufficient trajectory. And my
honest estimation is that if there was a shot fire
from that community bathroom, which I don't think happened, you
will have had to have been a left handed marksman
to sit you at yourself in the bathtub in a

(13:02):
very uncomfortable position. The bathroom window is small and leaves
very little room for a weapon and a body to
gain the needed angle to make the shot not impossible.
But it's not like someone would just walk up to
this window, take aim, and shoot something directly in front
of it. As it exists today, the window is now

(13:23):
open just a matter of inches, as it apparently was
on the day of the murder, and it appears to
me as though the wooden bottom frame of the window
would block or partially block the view through the scope
of the rifle, even assuming it was properly sighted. But
what got me most when I looked at the bathroom
is the tub, a small, narrow, old fashioned bathtub with

(13:46):
steep sloping sides. So instead of spreading his legs and
creating a secure base for a difficult shot, our presumed shooter, Mr.
Ray has to stand with his feet close together inside
this narrow bathtub and get all balanced and squared away
at just the time the King came out of his
room at the Lorraine. Then Ray fired the only bullet

(14:07):
he had loaded into his gun, because he was that
certain of his skill with the rifle. He had only
owned for four days. Then there was the question of
what needs to happen in the next couple of minutes.
As soon as the fatal shot is fired, Ray would
need to return to Room five B placed the rifle
in the box and throw his personal belongings into a
bag made from a bedspread, if he hadn't already done

(14:29):
that before making his way down to his car. But
instead of just throwing his stuff into his car, he
leaves the bag and the gun on the street. Harold
Weissberg's one book, Frame Up was the first to call
into question the official story of the King murder, and

(14:49):
we all owe him a debt. He died in two
thousand two, But I'd like to play for you here
his take on the stuff found on the street with
Ray's rifle. That's ridiculous. He's required of going to his
room in the flop house and picked up Why does
collection of junk bobby pins, bobby pins, cans of beer
that hadn't been opened that you know a guy has

(15:11):
been a crime like that and he's playing for his life,
you're gonna pick up a couple of cans of beer
or bobby pin. The box didn't hold the rifle. He
had to put the rifle in that all sorts of
other junk, and a ridiculous a collection of it. The
one thing that that that bundle served to do was
the point of finger it right. Ryan Jones agrees with
Whitebrooks doubt about the likelihood that Ray was the one

(15:32):
who left the bundle with the rifle on the street.
Why he would have ever have done that will always
be a mystery. The car wasn't parked right in front
of Jim Screw was parked a little closer to the firehouse,
but it's close enough to where he does not have
to like run a significant long a way. He had

(15:55):
more than enough time. It was probably safer for him
to have just put the rifle and his car and
drive off. It was strange to stand on South Maine
with Ryan Jones and try to imagine things that had
happened fifty years ago. There's no question that James Earl
Ray rented Room five B from Bessie Brewer the day

(16:17):
of the murder, but all the rest of it seems unlikely.
I was grateful for the time Ryan Jones spent with me,
so I asked him if he had anything else. He
wanted to say, I think that this would have been
a very very interesting trial had Ray gone to trial.
We have this weapon and it's never you know, the

(16:41):
ballistics and trajectory are not tested. The room changed. Why
the weapon was found when it was found. Who supplied Ray?
The aliases of Gaul Lomeyer, Willard Bridgeman, Snay and you
know what, this was a hate crime. You know I'm
not buying it. I'm a aientists and say, hey, karn

(17:01):
any Ku klux Klansman could have gotten Dr King and Montgomery.
They could have got him in Reachville, Georgia. They could
have gotten him in Birmingham. They could have got him
in saying Augustine Selma Chicago, walking the two hundred and
twenty one mile distance from Memphis to Jackson at the
MARCHI insphere. But no, they don't get him until he
is opposing the Vietnam War in April of nineteen sixty seven,

(17:25):
for the very last year. They wait and get him
when he proposes on December four, nineteen sixty seven, to
the Poor People's Campaign, where he wants to bring black
and white people who are stricken by poverty to the
nation's capital and to demand that the country, you know,
write the check to the people out in their backyard

(17:46):
versus in a war. I think that the story that
we've been given for the past fifty three years is
just fictional. It's laughable in certain areas that this limit
was sold to the American public, that this insignificant man
is James al Ray was able to kill Martin Luther

(18:07):
King Jr. Standing on the balcony of a Memphis hotel
room and to flee and get away untouched, not once.
At the end of the day, when we look at it,
the people who hated him the most yet the I
who was committed to discrediting him, to destroy him, who
urged him to commit suicide in January nine, are the

(18:27):
same people responsible for investigating his death. If that's not
of disservice to justice in this country, I don't know
it is. And I feel that the story will never rest,
and I will never rest until we get to the
bottom of it, until we give the justice that's due
and serve to dr King's family into history. One of

(19:09):
my court reporters was down at the Shelby County Courthouse
and said there was a British English producer named Jack
Saltman there and he was going to be doing this
tell a trial that never occurred, the trial of James
Earl Ray. I thought it was a hoax at first,
but throwing my coat, ran down seven blocks on a
cold winner's day and there was Jack Saltman with contract
in hand. He said, I need a real time court

(19:31):
reporting for this trial I'm doing. It's going to be
a real trial for all intents and purposes, but it
will have no judicial weight trial of James Earl Ray
as what it was called. I'm in Memphis a block
away from the former Lorraine Motel talking to Brian de Minski,
who was a court reporter and someone who has lived
in Memphis for most of his life. For the last

(19:51):
three decades, he's had a front row seat for some
of the more important events in the ongoing challenge to
the story of how Martin Luther King was murdered. As
we just heard, Brian's entrance into the case began when
he offered himself as a court reporter to an English
producer who was attempting to stage a mock trial of
James Earl Ray. The trial was to mimic in all

(20:13):
possible ways a real trial with the retired federal judge presiding,
attorneys arguing both sides, and an impartial jury to hear
the evidence and to come to a verdict. This is
in an edited tape of the trial was televised on
HBO on the twenty fifth anniversary of the murder of
Martin Luther King. It was a little surreal doing my

(20:37):
job as a court reporter. But some of my left
is a track with a guerney on it and a
big television camera filming me. It was it was cool stuff.
I enjoyed it. And who were the attorneys involved? Bill Pepper,
William Pepper and Hickman Ewing Jr. Who was our United
States District Attorney for the Western District of Tennessee prior
to that he had left that post and they hired

(21:00):
him as the prosecutor against versus Bill. James Rolwright tested
via satellite for two full days and one of the
days was a vigorous cross examination by Hickman Young Jr.
The jury was sequestered every evening. It was done airtight,
better than the ones that I actually would handle in
my other court reporting life. And for our listeners who

(21:21):
were not in class that day, what was the result
of the trial that Ray was not guilty of the
assassination of Martin Luther King. Okay, so tell us about
Bill Pepper. What was he like? He was very difficult
during that entire time. He was frankly, he was an
ass to everybody. And as you and I know, he's

(21:42):
a charming, wonderful man. But during that trial it was
so intense because he was having his shot now, he
was extremely intense and he was difficult to everybody. He
even made his co consul cry during the trial, April
Ferguson made her cry because I don't know what the
issue was, or she left the table during one of
the days and tears. Did you feel going into the

(22:04):
HBO trial that there was something wrong with the King
murder or did you basically think that Ray had done it?
What was your mindset before you went in or did
it change during the trial. I had an open mind.
As the days unfolded, though, I was just astounded at
what I didn't know, that what I was learning. What
witnesses stick out in your mind from that trial, Well,

(22:27):
there's there's Lieutenant Hamby who is sent to a coroner
Francisco's office to pick up the slug and bring it
back to Director Holloman's office, the head of Fire in
place of Memphis. He saw it was an intact bullet.
And now even if the Civil Rights Museum across the
street from where we're at, there was this three fragments
of a bullet. I recall they were going to put

(22:48):
Lloyd Jowers on the stand right I think he actually
was on the stand, and there were certain questions that
Judge Frankel said, we're not going there. You're not gonna
ask this. Well, Pepper tried to ask it anyway. He
asked Mr Jowers, well, what were you doing behind your
bar and grilla that day? And Judge Frankel said, you'll
see me in chambers right now. And they went into

(23:09):
chambers of Hicuing and Jowers, lawyer Lewis Garrison, and Bill
and they came back out and they took Jowers off
the stand. Frankl had some objection to asking Jowers whether
he was involved or what he might have been doing.
Correct Now, during the HBO trial is when I first
saw the photograph of the open window where they alleged

(23:32):
ray what fired the shot from in the rooming house.
Sergeant Papia testified, and he said that he came upon
the scene it approximately six thirty and goes up to
the rooming house and then requisitions a photographer to come
up there. So that's the exact position of the window.
And and in the Civil Rights Museum there is a
photograph of that on the wall. And when you look
at that window, it is open. We couldn't go in

(23:55):
the bathroom and measure it. Three four inchrece max. If
you take the Remington's game Master with scope and you
will put it into that window sill. The scope then
butts into the wood of the window sill. That's the
first time I came across that evidence after the HBO trial.
We left shaking hands and he went on his way.
I went on my way, thinking I'd never hear from

(24:16):
him again. About three years later, he calls me up
out of the blue and says, I need to use
your services and your conference room, Brian, and I want
you to be the court reporter. We have another trial
coming up, a civil trial involving Dr King's death, and
this one will be in Shelby County Circuit Court and
we need to take some depositions. Can can you do that?
And of course, I said yes, and it was a

(24:36):
different William Pepper this time around. I like to say
that once that aired on HBO and national television, it
shook things loose because people saw that and they said
I was there that day too, or I know this,
and they started contacting William Pepper or others saying I'd
like to come forth and give you my testimony of
what what happened. So that was a real watershed event

(24:56):
for the case. So who did you depose? We had
a series of people like Glenda Grabo, the captain of
the fire station, carthl wheedon taxi drivers. We deposed the
hours Although I didn't do hours deposition, one of my
associates did it that day. A lot of the people
that appear in the trial were deposed first. Now you

(25:18):
said you deposed Glenda Grabo. Tell me about Glenda Grabow. Well,
she was extremely nervous. She was going to testify a trial,
but she became ill. She didn't want to take the
stand in public forum. But she did give her deposition.
It speaks for itself. But she tied in the fact
that she knew Raoul the operative that we had learned

(25:40):
that was raised operatively leading him around the country. I'm
kind of interested in your perception of her as a person.
Did you have some reason to come and make up
a story that you're aware of? I sensed her she
was fearing for her life just giving her deposition. I mean,
she was extremely nervous, and Pepper had to kind of
draw out from her. By this point, the William Pepper

(26:01):
is representing the King family, not James l. Ray. They've
they've come to him and they said, you know, we
know you're onto something. We believe what you've got. We'd
like to retain you for the civil trial. What was
it like? I don't know, being there with Greta Scott King.
I'm not a big spiritual person, but when Mrs King,
she was the first witness when she took the stand,
the jury hadn't come out yet, and the core reporters

(26:21):
spot was right in front of the witness stand. So
Mrs King is standing there and I introduced myself and
we chatted for a moment, and she had this angelic
glow about her, just a specially touched person. And again
I'm not spiritual, but she had just glower aura that
she was unique. We are listening to a conversation that

(26:42):
I had this past summer with court reporter Brian do Minski,
who's been involved in the King case in one way
or another for thirty years. He has told us how
he has brought in as court reporter for the HBO
mot trial, which found James Earl Ray not guilty of
murdering Martin Luther King, and always served the same function
in the n civil trial King Family versus Showers, which

(27:05):
found that doctor King had been killed by a conspiracy.
But in the twenty plus years following the civil trial,
Dominski participated in or was witnessed to a half dozen
events that brought new understanding to the murder of doctor King.
One of those events was something Dominski did on his own,
the publication of the entire transcript of the ninety nine

(27:27):
civil trial. It took me a good five years because
I was fearful too that if I put this out,
particularly under my name in Memphis, I'd have lawyers saying
I'm never using Dominski again. I finally came to the conclusion,
I said, somebody's gonna find this transcript of my attic
one day after I'm deceased and go, oh my god,
this is the ninety nine King trial and then read
and go, wait a second, they've just proved that it

(27:48):
wasn't James all right. The book is titled The Thirteenth Juror,
and anyone can buy it online. It is seven hundred
and fifty pages, a complete record of the civil trial,
and it was a and has helped to me in
the making of this podcast. Another unique contribution by do
Minski was his in depth interview of Lewis Garrison, the

(28:09):
lawyer for the self confessed conspirator Lloyd Jowers. So we
have Lewis Garrison, who represented Lloyd Jowers from approximately nine
and he was his lawyer for the HBO trial. He's
lawyer for the ninety nine trial. I know Louis. He's
a Memphis lawyer. I'd known him over the years. We
would chat about the case because we both intimately involved.
So in two thousand seventeen, Lewis calls me. He says, Brian,

(28:32):
because of your involvement in the case and being a
you know, licensed core port stenographer, I'd like you to
come to my office. I want to tell you everything
I know. Lewis is about eighty nine at this point,
eight seven, and I don't know if it's a catharsis
or what. But I videered it as well, since when
it wasn't an I legal proceeding pending anymore, I just
called it a video affidavit of Lewis Garrison, not attached

(28:54):
in legal proceeding, but yet I swore him in under oath,
and and he being a member of the Memphis Bar,
he felt that oath was binding. And he testified for
about an hour and a half, and he spoke of
everything that Mr Jowers had told him over the years
as his lawyer. But he said the Jowers had received
the hundred thousand dollars from Mr Liberto and bought the
cab company shortly some time after the assassination, and how

(29:18):
he could have never done that owning a greasy spoonbar
and grill, and he didn't have a hundred thousand dollars
to buy that. And Lewis Garrison said he bought the
cab company with the money he got for acting as
the facilitator. Lewis had said when Lloyd Jowlers was passing
away on his deathbed, he called Lewis up, and the
day before he died he told Louis that yes, I
was a shooter. Now that's in juxtaposition to two other

(29:41):
stories that we know. Dominski was also in the room
with Bill Pepper and Martin King. The third for the
two thousand three sworn deposition of Lenny Curtis. Lenny Curtis
was a janitor at the MPD shooting range and Jim
and on the day of the assassination, and Lenny Curtis
testified at Frank Strousser had came in early that day

(30:04):
and was carrying a rifle and went down to the
shooting range and was constantly firing away. Around noon, Director Hollman,
Mayor Loebe and two people he doesn't know in suits
and ties come and meet with Frank Strousser in a
conference room. He's next door sweeping. He's trying to listen
in and he doesn't quite pick up on what they're
talking about, but they leave. Strousser then goes in practices

(30:27):
a little longer and then leaves in a sports car
with the rifle. As we heard Curtis tell us an
episode eleven, he felt certain that Strousser was intending to
shoot Dr King. Curtis tried to call a minister he
knew to pass the warning along, but he couldn't get through.
Curtis told his story in the presence of Martin King

(30:47):
the Third, with a promise that no one could listen
to it or even hear of it until after he
had died. But after Curtis did die, Bill Pepper sought
out Frank Strousser and offered him five dollars if he
would have lunch with him. Strausser agrees, and the two
men meet and Brian Dominski is sitting at a nearby table.

(31:08):
Ahead of time. Bill asked that that I have him
wired for sound, and we did a rudimentary attempt at
that recorder in his pocket, but Bill welcomed him and
they sat down and they had about a forty five
minute chat about what life was like in n in
Memphis and that sort of thing. In episode eleven, you
can hear our recreation of Pepper's conversation with Frank Strausser

(31:30):
that Brian do Minski overheard and taped via recorder in
Bill pepper shirt pocket. Dominski was also in the room,
this time as a court reporter. During the stunning seven
Hours Worn deposition by Ronnie Lee Atkins, Ronnie Lee was
a fascinating, interesting man. He was an iron horseman, biker

(31:52):
and his family they were the Dixie Mafia family, not mafia's,
an Italian mafia, Dixie mafias in Southern tough eyes that
do things, illicit things, and they still exist. He gave
his deposition for a seven seven hours. At first I
was skeptical. He almost looked like Hulk Hogan. He's got
just his flowing hair, big mustache and had to be

(32:13):
to eighty, but really built strong and but as he
gave his testimony over those seven hours, he had so
many intricate Memphis facts. Now he's from ephis so it's understandable,
but he had so much detail that he couldn't have
possibly made this up. Bill. He was telling the story
of his life and his family's life back in the day.
As we were beginning to pack up, I asked Brian

(32:35):
de Minsky if looking back, he felt encouraged by all
the people that have braved the storm and come forward
and all the evidence they have brought with them, or
was he discouraged by how immune to it all the
lies surrounding King's murder seemed to be. He was upbeat.
Pepper would like this I'm I'm a wax poetic, but
Dr King used to like to quote the truth crushed

(32:57):
Earth will rise again. So as the years passed, it
is rising. It's it's coming out, but we're not totally
there now. The ninety nine Trials a wonderful template, and
there's more, of course that we've on Earth, and there's
still a little bit more that week we don't have,
but we did a pretty good job of those two trials.

(33:20):
This is Bill Klaiber, creator of the MLK tapes. Before
we walk away from the podcast, I wanted to play
the interviews you just heard of two people who have
had a front row seat as this story has played
out in Memphis. For most of us, the murder of
Martin Luther King is something that took place over fifty
years ago, but for Ryan Jones and Brian do Minsky,

(33:41):
it is a battle between truth and lies that is
still very much alive today. If you are with us
this far, I would like to think that you now
know a great deal more about the murder of Martin
Luther King than you did before, and considering the importance
of the man murdered, I hope that feels odd to you,
and it should because most Americans think King was killed

(34:02):
by a lone assassin driven by racial hatred. They think
this because for fifty years, the American media has seen
fit to champion the single corrupt story that was provided
to them and to allow for nothing else. So, for example,
if you have written a book that challenges the official
version of this crime, as Bill Pepper has done, your book,

(34:24):
no matter how carefully vetted, will not even be reviewed.
Polite people don't talk about the murder of Dr King.
But podcasts offer a way around those gatekeepers. So we
have put the evidence as we know it into audio
episodes and shot them out into the ether, where from
now on anyone can access them. Anyone can hear how

(34:45):
Percy Foreman was paid to make sure that James Earl
Ray pled guilty, and they can ask themselves how did
this happen and why? And of course, none of this
could have happened if Bill Pepper hadn't decided to investigate
the murder of his friend Martin King. So I want
to thank Bill again for those efforts and for his bravery.
I also want to thank Donald Albright and Jamie Albright

(35:07):
of Tenderfoot TV, and Matt Frederick and Trevor Young of
I Heart Media for the belief in the importance of
this story and for their confidence in me. I'm grateful
for their exceptional talent and for the spirit they brought
with it. It's not every day that one gets to
shadow a lie as big as this one. Thanks for

(35:32):
listening to the m l K Tapes, a production of
I Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. This podcast is not
specifically endorsed by the King Family or the King of State.
Damail Ka Tapes is written and hosted by Bill Claiper.
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers on behalf
of I Heart Radio with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Phone.
Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on half

(35:54):
of Tenderfoot TV with producers Jamie Albright and Meredith Steadman.
Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Cover art by
Mr Soul to six with photography by Artemus Jenkins. Special
thanks to Owen Rosenbaum and Grace Royer at u t A,
The Nord Group, back Median Marketing, Envisioned Business Management, and

(36:15):
Station sixteen. If you have questions, you can visit our website,
the email k Tapes dot com. We posted photos and
videos related to the podcast on our social media accounts.
You can check them out at the Email k Tapes.
From our podcasts from I Heart Radio and tender Foot TV,
please visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows,