It’s Time We Talk (part 2) with Lauren Zima

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the most dramatic podcast ever.
I'm Chris Harrison. Welcome here to what we will affectionately
call Studio A, the home office in Austin, Texas. Wherever
you are, wherever you find yourself on your journey, you
are welcome here. And I just want to say thank you.

(00:21):
I want to start off by saying thank you for
the response to the first episode, and I hope you
have listened to episode one. If you have not, I
recommend you hit the pause button, step back watch episode one,
listen to it, take it in. UM. I think the
connective tissue to these two episodes is very important and
vital to get the feel and the vibe of everything

(00:44):
I said in episode one leading into this one. UM.
I also want to say thank you to the response.
I should have said this in the first episode, but
no joke. It was a very emotional moment to get
all of that out, and so I missed a few things,
and what I wanted to say was thank you the
response to the trailer that we dropped. We announced this

(01:07):
UM connection, this partnership with My Heart Radio about a
month ago and mid early December, and this particular show
the most dramatic podcast ever that I would be hosting.
And the response from you was incredible, and I was
blown away and I was so touched, and it's it's

(01:29):
never lost on me how amazing all of you are
and how loving and I'm sure curious intrigued by all
of this, but to make the trailer of the show
the number four podcast in all podcasts and number one
in its category was overwhelming. And I just want to

(01:50):
say thank you. I am so appreciative and I can't
wait to see the response to these first two episodes
that we are dropping together. And just to give you
a little logistics, UM, Lauren and I flew out to
San Francisco, that's where we actually recorded the first one,
just so I could be with the team, the I
Heart Radio team. And then now we are back home
and our our beautiful home in Austin, Texas, where Lauren

(02:13):
and I have set up shop and made our life. Um.
And speaking of Lauren, Zema is going to be joining
us just a little bit later. But beyond the response
to the trailer, one thing I didn't touch on an
episode one is the response from everybody after everything went down,

(02:33):
And there were several camps that I will touch on.
I was moved by the crew. Many of the crew
members that I've worked with for the better part of
two decades reached out. A lot of them. Um, I
definitely won't name those names because I know a lot
of them still work there and I don't want to
create any weird tension for them, but I appreciate it.

(02:53):
The other interesting thing about the show, and I've said
this in interviews before, this family and friends that I
made over the nineteen years, and I'm talking about people
that came on the show. They were either maybe the
backs or bachelorette or cast members, and then after the show,
often we would end up at events together, charity events,

(03:14):
helping each other, supporting each other. Um, they would often
call me because you know, being the bachelor bachelrette is
a little bit like being shot out of a cannon
all of a sudden, You're just going a thousand miles
an hour. Nothing has really prepared you from going from
you know zero, your life and wherever you're living too,
you know, red carpets and everything that's thrown at you.
And so I tried to help and counsels as best

(03:36):
I could when they would reach out and needed it,
and that those relationships grew. And now these families have
grown and we have children that have been born and
there's a lot of pride in that. And early on
a lot of those people reached out. Some spoke out, um,

(03:56):
you know, like a Catherine and Sean who I love
and a Door very much. Um, you know, Ari and Lauren,
Brad Walmac. It's tough when you start naming names. It's like,
there's this I could go for miles of Tristan Ryan
and JP and Ashley and Jaden Tanner and Jojo and
Jordan who Lauren and I love so much, and Bob

(04:17):
Guinney and Andrew Firestone, Been and Ashley. I know they're
not a couple, but you know they do the podcast
together and they actually spoke very highly and glowingly of
of this announcement UM last month. And I appreciate Been
and Ashley very much. And Andy Dorfman, I'm so happy
she's found love. And um, Sarah Herron who's going to
be a mom, and Leslie Murphy who is a mom,

(04:39):
and and Tinley who and so you know, and even
a guy like Jake Pavelka. Jake Pavelka reached out. Um,
the guy who helped me coin the phrase everything is
about to change. Um. Raven and Adam up there, Chris Souls,
the miracle man Eric Bieger. Gotta mention him one of
my favorite human beings to come through the show that spirit. Uh.

(04:59):
He and I've had some great conversations, UM, since all
of this went down, and I appreciate it. And even
those that we're critical early on, I'm glad I've gotten
to run into a lot of them. Mike Johnson was
was one who was very critical, outspoken as soon as
this happened, and understandably so. UM. And we ran into

(05:21):
each other ironically in Vegas at an iHeart event and
gave each other a big hug, had nothing but love
and and he I very much appreciate. He reached out
to me while we were sitting there and spending time
together and just thank me for being kind of that
big brother and always being there for him. And UM
it was good too, not necessarily make amends because we

(05:41):
never got sideways, but just to reconnect. And you know,
Nick Vau was another one who Nick wasn't really uh
strongly against me or said anything, but you know, I
think Nick was one of those among many who probably
saw the blood in the water and saw the opportunity
of a job that would be really phenomenal, and no

(06:04):
doubt he wanted that job. And but we saw each
other at Wells and Sarah's wedding and gave each other
big hugs. Saw Chris Souls there too. It was good
to see Chris. And speaking of uh Wells and Sarah's wedding,
which was phenomenal, a few bachelor people, a lot of
modern family people. Um Wells has always been a very

(06:28):
he First of all, he's a good man. He's a
very good man and a good friend of mine. Um
he'll never beat me on the golf course, but that's
beside the point. He um Wells was in a very
difficult situation because obviously he was still kind of connected
to the show and he was doing stuff on Paradise.
But he was one of the first to reach out

(06:49):
to me and just said, hey, look, I'm I'm staying
out of this. You know, I love you, respect you,
and I appreciated that. I appreciated him because if anybody
had sites on the job, it could easily was Wells,
and deservedly so, by the way I I thought to

(07:11):
be completely candid that Wells was going to get the job.
I thought that was kind of the easiest call since
Ken Jennings got the Jeopardy job. He's and the family,
everybody loves him. It just seemed like a layup. But
that's not how it went down. I even told him,
I said, hey, man, I won't speak out publicly because
I don't think that will help you at all. In fact,

(07:33):
it would do a lot more harm than good. But
I really hope you get the job. I think you'd
be great at it. Just appreciate him and so many
others that have reached out to me. UM, since that's happened,
since I announced I was doing this podcast, it really
has been heartwarming and it's been a wonderful connection for

(07:54):
all of us to get back together. UM. There were
there were a lot of others that reached out too
that I found interesting. UM, whether it's celebrities, athletes, UM,
a late night host. I really appreciated it, and it
was just private text messages or phone calls, and it
helped as Laura and I were navigating this and speaking

(08:17):
of I think it's time for our first guest, the
first guest ever in the history of the most dramatic
podcast ever, and it has to be the one and
only Lauren's Ema. This podcast is all about relationships. This
is the most important relationship in my life and she
was the only person with me every step of the

(08:40):
way during this So when we return, Lauren and I
we're going to talk about our experience and how this
affected our relationship. That's next. Welcome back to the Most
Dramatic podcast ever with Chris Harrison and I am here

(09:02):
to welcome my very first guest, and it had to
be this woman, three time Emmy winner. Don't laugh at that.
I haven't done a podcast in a while, Well might
as well do this one, Okay. On a scale of
one to ten, one being the best. That is a

(09:24):
day of organizing at the house, just watching Housewives, that's
number one. Ten would be having to go to ten
football games, So that's the scale Housewives to football. Ten
is bad. Scale of one to How excited are you
to sit down and have this conversation. I'm very excited
to sit down and have the conversation, but I'm also

(09:44):
very I would say that my nerves are at probably
a tend. My hands are so sweaty, right, now because this,
you know, you and I have so rarely done something
like this where we're when whenever we're in a situation
like this has happened a few times, it's always who's
the interviewer and who's the interviewee, And we lose that

(10:05):
a little bit because we both do it for a living.
So sometimes we have a bit of a hard time
finding our rhythm in these moments because we don't know.
It's like dancing when you don't know who's leading. I
I would agree with that. I will say if I'm
guessing you as a listeners have never had the opportunity
to interview an interviewee. Um, I'm probably a little more

(10:28):
adept at it because I had that interviewing, no being interviewed,
like giving turning the table. Yes, I'm usually in control
of the moment when I'm hosting and whatever, but I've
had the moment turned on me many of time, and
in interviews. And that's how we actually met, was you
interviewing me. And that's one of the things I fell
in love with immediately, was how brilliant you were and

(10:48):
what an amazing journalist and how good you were. Um,
and then there was the rest but I I know
you have a tough time being interviewed. I do. I don't.
I'm so used to I had been. I mean I
was at entertainment tonight for oh I think almost eight years,
and before that, I was just another So I don't
have been a journalist for well over a decade, and

(11:11):
I've probably been interviewed myself less than five times. So, um, yeah,
I'm used to asking all the questions. When I was dating,
I would always joke that, like, I would go on
a really bad date in my mind, but the person
would think it went really well. But that was just
because I asked them a million questions because I'm in
interview mode. Um. And then my friends really joke with

(11:32):
me that, when you know, they asked me how are you,
I always say I'm fine, I'm good, how are you?
And I turn it back around on them. So I
do sort of have a hard time talking about myself
and being interviewed, and that's why my bombs are dripping. Also,
I sound so horrible. I'm so sorry everybody. I'm kind
of sick. I've been sick for a week. I've tested
negative for COVID four times. But I just have a

(11:52):
very bad um, you know, side dis infections, so blessings
on this holiday season of illness and viral moments to
look beautiful? Can you sound amazing? We haven't kissed in
a week, and I appreciate I appreciate that. Um no,
I appreciate you sitting down. And this is something I
know that we have talked obviously a lot about everything,

(12:15):
but one thing we really don't ever get into is
how each other felt separately going through all this, and
that one of the most painful things I said in
episode one was affecting you and how this affected you,
And that was easily one of the toughest things for

(12:38):
me to watch, what was the effect on you? Initially,
I think the hardest part was understanding it because I
didn't feel like I was watching you. I know that
wasn't you in that interview. I know that it wasn't
the way you. You know, I felt the what what

(13:03):
was being perceived was not how you felt in your heart,
and I knew that, and so I was also just
mad because I thought, how could you do this? How
could you be so messy? How could you not see
how you were sounding? But what I quickly realized is
that everybody makes mistakes and to me the most including

(13:27):
myself many times obviously, UM, And to me, the most
important thing about a human is how is what their
intention is and how they react after they make a mistake.
And I knew that your intention in that interview was
in no way malicious. I knew that your intention was

(13:49):
to protect Matt at the time the Bachelor, Um, And
after it happened, you were immediately so apologetic and so
hard broken and you wanted to make everything right. So
the hardest part is watching somebody who you love being

(14:13):
so much pain and UM, knowing that you can't fix it,
that there's nothing you can do. And we tried so
many in so many ways to fix everything. Um, But
that was the hardest part about it all for me.
That was a very long answer, but a good one,

(14:39):
was it? Yeah, Because I you know, I think one
thing that is good to see and explain in a
relationship when I think when people could see us or
think about us, it's just this. You know, you never
know what's going on inside someone's house. And this was
not an easy thing to go through. We had, you know,
we had just gone through the pandemic like everybody, and

(15:00):
we became one of those pandemic couples of like, well,
be together, a break up the pan you know, you're
either living together or you're you're never thinking about breaking up.
No, No No, I mean during the pandemic. You know, I
think a lot of people you had to quarantine together
or not. And so we were one of those couples
that definitely in the pandemic, we quarantined together, we moved
in together, and so we had just gone definitely accelerated

(15:21):
our relationship. And so we went through that stressful time
right into this um which was you thought the pandemic
was stressful, this was, you know, tenfold, And so I
don't ever want to give people the impression that you
and I just breathed through this. It was very difficult,
and yeah, we had arguments, We battled. Um. Lauren comes

(15:45):
from a long line of lawyers, so they love to
debate and they're very honest. But I appreciated that and
I needed that because I think far too often you
end up in an echo chamber, and that's how you
get in trouble as you just surround yourself by yes men,
yes women who just say exactly what you want to hear.

(16:05):
But I have so many regrets about how I advised
you at that time. UM. I mean, I don't know
if I could have. I don't think I could have
done a better job, because for me, you know, you'd
been famous for almost twenty years, you know, fifteen years
at least when we first started dating. UM. I I

(16:29):
worked in entertainment tonight people. Some people knew me from
my Bachelor recap show Roses and Rose that I started, UM,
but I was not on the same level by any means,
and I'd certainly never been through any type of scandal,
so it was all very new to me, and it
was a trial by fire of this unprecedented time in

(16:51):
all of our lives. The stress of that and this
added So I don't think I could have done a
better job in advising you. I was just doing the
best I could with information I had at the time.
But I do have regrets about some of the things
that I suggested, or the sounding board that I was
at the time, what anything in particular, Um, you talked

(17:12):
about asking your brother to take that letter down. I
know that I advised you to have him take it down.
I was coming from a place of worrying about what
it would do to him, and I didn't want any
I mean, you know, I've said this to friends. This

(17:32):
was not the saddest thing I've ever been through in
my life. I I lost my dad when I was
twenty two, my sister was nineteen, my brother was fourteen.
That was really hard. It ripped my family apart, and
it changed me forever as a person. Um. But this
was the most stressful thing I've ever been through for sure. UM.

(17:54):
I also have the perspective of at the end of
the day, I believe that if everybody you love is
how healthy, then you are blessed. And we had well
more than a roof over our heads, like we were okay.
So I kept that perspective throughout everything. But it wasn't
easy to have people d m n NG you two

(18:16):
or me to die, um, to kill ourselves to uh
that were horrible too. UM. You know, that was all
really hard, and I was worried about that coming for
your brother. So I but then to hear you, know,
you say that you felt like asking him to take
that down fundamentally affected you and made you question yourself. UM,

(18:44):
it's hard to hear. I I look back on the
statement that I put out at the time, and I
wish I'd done it differently. There was a longer version
of it where I said I know who Chris something
like I know who Chris is as a person, and

(19:05):
I know that he you know, did not mean to
come across that way or I can't remember exactly what
I said, But there was a longer version where I
defended you more and I was advised. You talked a
lot about being advised. I was advised cut that out,
like keep it shorter, Just keep it short. You have
to release a statement, so just get it out and

(19:25):
keep it short. Um, because that's going to be better.
It'll create less, less problems. Um. And I was a
part of that conversation. Yeah, but I wish I hadn't.
I know and and I know that, and I knew that,
But also you said something that I firmly believe. And

(19:46):
you and I say this all the time. You can
only make the best decision in the moment with what
you know in that moment and how you felt. We
were making split second decisions. But I do think one
takeaway I have the Molli's one thing I've learned is
that you're not gonna make everybody happy. I wish I'd
read less comments. I wish i'd you feel like you

(20:09):
should be reading the comments and reading the coverage because
you want to be aware of the situation. And also
you know you're the viewers of the show are so
important to you and to me too that we wanted
to make sure we were trying to do right by
people and to make things right. So we were trying
to listen, um to everybody. But that also kind of

(20:32):
messes with your head, and especially it's that thing of
and I think everybody who's on social media knows this.
You can hear ten nice things, but if one person
tells you you're horrible or tells you to harm yourself,
that hits you a lot harder. Um. So I wish

(20:53):
that I hadn't listen to that as much, because I
I maybe would have thought a bit clearer. Um. And
the big takeaway is that you have to feel good,
you have to feel good about who you are, and
you have to thank Years from now, am I going
to feel like what I did represented the person I
want to be? So that was what I learned. Um,

(21:15):
I don't think that that statement was full enough to
represent who I am, and so I wish I had
I had left those extra bits in no matter what
ended up getting said, because like I said, you're not
gonna make everybody happy. If you're try and please everybody,
you end up please. Now we all see that all
the time. I mean, mom could post a photo with
her new baby and somebody's going to say, but where

(21:36):
are your other kids? And um, then she could post
a photo with her other kids and somebody will say, God,
you're really exploiting your children. So there's nothing you can
do to fully satisfy all. Just announcing this podcast. I
didn't even really say anything announcing this podcast a month ago.
There was people that had something to say, right because
you have to, because what is the use of an

(21:57):
article that says, hey, I'm really about this. I'm curious
to hear what he's gonna say. You're never going to
see that article in a tabloid or on a podcast
or whatever. You well, that's not true, like Been and
Ashley and people like that, who are actually good people
like but it's not what exactly, it's not the click bait,
it's not whatever. And so you know, the the vocal

(22:21):
kind of minority that you see on social media or whatever,
it is. It's easier said than done to ignore that
and let it go because the majority of like once
so we announced this and the people that the outpouring
of love and support, and you know, as you've traveled around,
we've traveled together, and so many people come up to
us and we love that and and honestly, they usually

(22:41):
pushed me aside just to get to Lauren's ema and
I get that, um and I we've loved that and
it meant a lot. Well. One of the first things
I saw when we started dating. You told me very
early on, because people might come up to you and
ask for a photo when we were having dinner. I
remember you telling me, I always take the time for

(23:05):
every person who comes up to me, because I owe
all of my success to these people. And you care
about the fans and the viewers so much, UM, So
you know, I I in part say that to say
that was what made all this so hard, as you
talked about in the first episode, was how much you
love everybody and trying you and I trying to figure

(23:26):
out what was the best way to go about reaching
those people. And that's what was so difficult. We didn't
have this podcast. I wish you know, good or bad.
I think there is this new model that I saw.
And it's not whether you agree with him or not.
It's just what I saw when whether it was Joe
Rogan or Dave Chappelle speak out when they were going

(23:47):
through similar type things publicly, they had a platform, um.
And I saw that, and I was like, damn, I
wish I could rewind six months. This is what I
would have done. I would have sat down here or
with you and with you at home to have this
conversation and to be able just to speak to you directly,
because you're the ones I care about, You're the ones

(24:09):
that matter. Well. I think you were caught in a
perfect storm for going through a moment where you made
a mistake. And by that, I mean you know, when
somebody who has their own podcasts or their own show
does it, they can take ownership of that, they can

(24:29):
speak out. I mean, especially if they own that property.
We were both advised to stay quiet. You were told
to stay quiet, um. And what's so hard about that is,
first of all, it's not genuine. You know, people were
used to you talking to them, and so that made
the whole thing even worse and more jarring. But I
think the hardest part is that while you might think

(24:53):
it's the right thing to stay quiet, what ends up
happening is that other people feel that silence. Other people
speak for you. And I think that very much happened
and created a snowball that kept growing bigger and bigger
and bigger until it was an avalanche. And you were
also caught up in the perfect storm of, like you said,

(25:15):
people who wanted your job, who had podcasts of their
own though where they could speak out every week. Um,
and the show is still having so many episodes to air,
so the conversation kept getting brought up and brought up
and brought up. I thought a lot about how you
know somebody, You might be an actor who does something,
their movie comes out, and maybe they say something bad
in an interview, and then they can kind of go

(25:35):
away for a while and come back and and do
another movie later. Um. But this was being brought up
over and over and over again, and I was on
a nightly news show and we were covering it every night,
and it um made me look at my own industry
very differently too. I was very much on the other
side of it. This is also all reminded me of

(25:56):
how much gray area there is. Like there, as you've said,
there are people at the show who used to love
so much, there are people at the show who are
very problematic still, and um, for me, you know, I
look now at I always when I was covering the show.

(26:17):
I'm not saying I didn't try to find the dirt,
because I did. It's part of the whole machine. But
I never wanted to. I mean I always was running
an article where I felt like it was well sourced,
I had reported the truth. What I realized in seeing
the coverage of this was that maybe, unfortunately, even when
journalists might think they're reporting the truth, there are versions

(26:39):
of the truth. It's not the whole truth I saw.
I remember I saw one source source said that you
were calling people begging for your job, and I know
that that never happened. And I think maybe people see, um,
maybe their sources and assistant who's heard half of a
phone call from another room. And so the version that

(27:02):
we get of the truth of what journalism is supposed
to be the first draft of history gets pretty whittled
and watered down. That was in this day and age.
That's all it takes, right, One one article somebody says something,
someone can write an article, and then someone else can
write it. And so by the third article that that
journalist and I hate to use that word and this
in this particular instance, because they've done no work. They

(27:23):
have not sourced anything much less have three of them,
but they don't even have one. Their their source is
another article. Um, that's not journalism, by the way, you
cannot do that, but they do, and it it's what
happens now, Um, you'll see the same article just kind
of be regurgitated over and over and over. And for
you and I to remain silent when we saw a

(27:47):
lot of people would I mean, honestly, just flat outlie
and they wanted to insert themselves in this story, and
they would talk about things they didn't know about You
and I remain silent. We did not speak. This is
the first time that you and I have spoken at
all about this publicly, and that, as I said in
episode one, was a difficult thing for me, and I

(28:09):
imagine it was just as difficult for you. Yes, Um,
and I guess what's coming to my mind right now
is something I haven't ever talked about, but which was
ending my recap show. Roses and rose um, which was
such a joy in my life for me. UM, how

(28:32):
I felt about my job changed a lot after I
stopped that because I realized that was really what I
got so much happiness from. I wasn't ready to end
that show. UM. One thing in looking at the interview
and in seeing how you've been in the past year
and a half since it's all been over, is I've
realized how frustrated you were at work. UM. You know,

(28:56):
I still want to and I can't really go back
and watch that interview because just because it's it brings
back so much. But I think one realization I've had
is that you people felt like, oh, is this a
side of him? I've just never seen. No what that
was was. It wasn't the truth of you. It was

(29:19):
a very frustrated, burnt out, tired version of you. UM.
And you are so rarely that I Chris never gets mad,
He doesn't uh really get sad. He You're the person
who's always trying to be strong for everyone around you.
Sometimes to the point of some of our conflict comes
from me saying, but how do you like? You tell

(29:41):
me your emotions? How do you feel? Are you upset?
I mean you won't even tell me if you're sick. Um,
You're like, I'm fine, I'm good. I'm like, are you
because you're you've gotten out betting. I don't know. I'm good, okay. Um,
But I think in that interview you were you know,
you've been filming in Quarantine, You've had we've had stretches
of I think three months where I didn't see you,

(30:03):
we didn't see the kids, and some of that had
been used against you. Um, I think it. I think
it was purposely leaked that you left quarantine to move
your son into college. And I know that that hurt you,
that it was kind of, um, something that got weaponized
against you, and you were just trying to be a

(30:24):
good dad. I know you were so worried that this
controversy was happening about around Rachel Kirkconnell and and you
wanted her and Matt to not break up. You wanted
Matt to be okay. You didn't want Matt to be
going through all this. So all that frustration and exhaustion
went into that interview, and I really saw that you
were really tired of a lot. So there were many

(30:48):
reasons that you were really frustrated going into that interview
and being in that position again where you had to
defend the show, where no one was helping you defend
the show. No network executives were out there speaking out um,
and there you were yet again. So I started. I
started going on all this because I think I saw

(31:10):
a very burnt out version of you. Part of my
frustration with you, though, was that I I was mad
that even though you were you know, I don't think
I realized at the time how burnt out you were,
but I was mad that you messed up in part
because I wasn't quite as done yet. I was loving
doing my show Roses and Rose. I was having fun,
and um, when everything happened, I knew that I couldn't

(31:32):
do that show anymore. Um. Ultimately the reason I decided
not to do that show anymore. And I'm talking about
it for the first time, and I I feel so
bad because I've gotten so many wonderful messages from people
saying I miss Roses and Rose. I missed laughing with
you every week, and oh my gosh, that was what
I loved about it. Whether it was about the Bachelor
or something else, I just loved laughing with people every

(31:54):
week and connecting with them and having fun and and
feeling like maybe I gave them a bright spot in
their week that made me happier than anything. But ultimately
the reason I stopped doing that show. Um, I wasn't
told by my job that I had to stop doing it.
I stopped because I could not live with myself covering

(32:15):
the franchise like that anymore. I couldn't celebrate it in
the same way, knowing everything that I no, no, I
know it was hard to find humor in it. And
you talked about that before, long before he actually any
of this happened. You said, it's getting harder and harder
to find the love and humor in it anymore. It

(32:37):
was getting harder to have fun with it. Yes, speaking
of fun, let's take a quick break and come back
and have fun more fun with Lauren's Ema right after this.
Welcome back to the most dramatic podcast ever. I am
sitting here with my beautiful fiance, Lauren's Ema, and we

(33:00):
have been talking for about the last half hour about
one of the worst times in our lives. What couple
does this? This is like therapy in a really horrible way.
I can't believe you said before the break, We'll be
back with more fun. I'm I'm this is we should
do this fun. We should do this every night. We
should sit down, open a bottle of wine and just

(33:21):
rehash all of this every night. I really, I will
say this just again from the bottom of my heart.
I love you and I do honestly when even in
losing my dad, I see silver linings that came out
of that UM. As much as it ripped my family

(33:42):
and I apart, it made me closer with them. It
made us me a stronger person. It gave me perspective
on life at a young age. And as hard as
this has been, first of all, I understand that there
are people. I'm oh, I feel grateful every night because
there are people who have gone through so much worse
than this. If whatever higher power there is said to me,

(34:03):
do you want to go through all this again? Or
do you want someone you love to be sick? Oh,
my gosh, I would take this a million times over.
I'm I'm fine with this UM. And a silver lining
of it is that it really made me see your
everything about who you are as a person. I mean,
if you want to wait to know that you're with

(34:24):
the right person, do you go through something traumatic and
you see who they are and how they step up
and what they do, and that shows you their true worth. No,
this would have either broken a couple up or or
brings you more together. And i've i've I said an
episode one, I I love and adore you and admire
you even more than I did before. And you know,

(34:45):
my grandmother, my my late great Jewish grandmother, uh Mimi,
always said to me, find somebody, surround yourself with people
who are equal or better than you, And that's Lauren's ema.
And thank you for saying my last name every time.
Um let me get married out by the way, I
you know what people always say, Oh do you know
people call you Chris Harrison? That actually does happen. I

(35:08):
don't call Lauren Lauren zo. I don't even call you Lauren.
I call you l z usually um so l z
uh name. And when we get married, I'm not changing it. No,
I'm changing mine, c z um. But it definitely brought
us closer together because you will find out what people
are made of in these moments in life, and that
is a blessing. And as I said an episode one,

(35:30):
it doesn't come in a beautiful little you know box
under the tree. It's it's sometimes slapships side the head,
and that's what it was for us. But the bond
we built and how and I know we both go
back and said, oh, we could have done this, we
could have done this, we should have done this. You know,
you you can play Monday morning quarterback all throughout your life.

(35:50):
You especially do it in moments like this when everything
is under a microscope on such a grand scale, and
we do you still go back if if you're a
you know, intelligent person, you thinkack of like, you know,
I could have navigated this better. I could have done this, um.
But at the end of the day, we made decisions
together and we stuck with them. You know. For example,

(36:10):
I quit watching TV, I quit reading stuff I wasn't
looking into that. You were the filter. You were dealing
with it in entertainment tonight, and so you kind of
let me know, hey, this person speaking out about you.
This person, and you kind of let me know what
I needed to hear because it was drinking from a
fire hydrant and you were able to kind of brush
that away and kind of help me drink from a

(36:34):
water fountain, which was a lot more palatable, and so
there were things that both of us did in any relationship.
And again this this pod will move on, it will
be fun. It's going to evolve into amazing things about relationships.
And one thing you will always learn in a relationship
is it's not always you know, no pun intended fantasy

(36:56):
suites and hot air balloon rides. It's tough, and you
go through these moments and at times you are the
weak one, at times you are the strength, at times
you're carrying the weight of two and at times you
are you know, a mush and a mess. And so
at times all throughout the day, Lauren and I would

(37:18):
switch those positions were you were. You were the caretaker
and then you were this and so we had to
be there for each other and it forced us to
build a bond that is unbelievable and I'm grateful for that.
As you said, it's the silver lining. But one thing
I think made me fall in love with you even
more was that you never I mean I in all this,

(37:42):
there were moments when I was worried about myself and
my career, and like I said, I was mad at you.
I don't think you were ever worried about yourself. I
never heard you say my career, my future. You were
so upset with yourself, so beside yourself. Um, watching you

(38:08):
not eat and not sleep was really hard. And again
because I couldn't fix it. Um, but you put you
were always worried about your family. I mean maybe just
being able to provide for everybody. Um. And what I
heard you say over and over again, and I think
sometimes to your detriment, you didn't like worry about how

(38:29):
you were coming across as you were trying to do
right by the show. And that was because you were
worried about the crew, the producers, the I don't know
a hundred and fifty people who work on it. And
you were so worried about the show staying alive because
you didn't want any of those people who you knew
and loved to be in any kind of financial jeopardy. Um.

(38:53):
So you were. And I'm thinking about the g M
a interviewer. We'll get there someday. But look to your point,
you were you were putting the show above yourself, and UM,
that made me fall in love with you even more because, Uh,
it was very hard to watch you be defined by

(39:18):
this one thing. I don't think anybody again, we're all
gonna make mistakes, and I don't think that anyone deserves
to be to have their entire life defined by one
moment um, especially when they're sorry and they messed up
and they know it. Um. If we don't have redemption,
then what are we all doing? Um? And I think

(39:41):
the problem is that, you know, you were somebody who
really like, in terms of your personal life, stayed out
of headlines for the most part over those twenty years.
You You know, there are celebrities who are constantly involved
in scandals and drama and then they like to stay
in the headlines and it's part of their career and
you really didn't do that. Um. And a lot of
the good things you did as a journalist, I can
tell you don't make for very interesting headlines. Hey, he's

(40:04):
a dad who's coaching his kids soccer team. There's a
good headline. The beauty of my life is that this
doesn't define me whatsoever. If it defines me to you,
that's on you. That's not on me and my life.

(40:25):
And this is what helped me leave the franchise and
leave the show is because I've never defined myself by that.
I was proud of it. It was something I did.
It's something I spent a large part of my professional
life building and doing, and that was awesome. But I've
never defined myself by that. I've always defined myself by
what's important. And I preach this to my kids. I

(40:47):
preach it to you. What's important, who's important, you know,
my family, my friends, my faith, the things that I
lean on, the things that I truly care about. That
is the character of a man or one, and that's
what defines you. And so if you take away a
job and it was a profession, it was something like
a career. I loved it and I still love it.
I love TV. I left producing, I love creating, So

(41:10):
that part was neat. But you know, I didn't wake
up and go I'm Chris Harrison, Bachelor host. I'm I
would much more say I'm you know, Elsie's fiance and
father of two and friend to many, like That's That's
what I'm proud of. And at the end of the day,
I know, when I'm lying on my deathbed, um, I'm

(41:32):
not going to be thinking about rose ceremonies or anything
I did on the show. I'll be, you know, hopefully
surrounded by those that I love. UM, I was gonna
say something crude there and I won't, but don't you
say anybody. God, I know you know business is personal.
Our jobs are personal, and because we're passionate about our careers,
they take up a lot of our time. I mean,

(41:53):
I know that the show, especially when you're dealing with
the arts and this is kind of in that vein
of your life is in it, right, your heart's in
that when you are yes a part of it, it's
more than a job. And the show for you was
time away from your kids. I mean, one thing that's
been again a silver lining about the past year and
a half is you got to go to you know,

(42:15):
your daughter Taylor's senior musical. You've never gotten to go
to a play. Um, you'd had you would have to
go and watch a rehearsal, and you know that was
how you'd like, go see a rehearsal and get to
see it. But you know, when the actual show was
you were off filming. UM. And I know you give
everything to your kids and they love you so much
and you're such a great dad, but your work was

(42:38):
still time away from them. And so in the past
year to see you be able to go to Josh's
lacrosse games when you want, and go see Taylor's plays
and go visit them at college. Um has been You're
very You're You're much happier to me. One of the
great things about being the host and being a part
of that franchise for so long is when people come

(43:00):
up to us, they'll have these amazing stories about the
only time I talk to my you know, mom, or
my daughter or I connect with my dad is on
Monday nights. And we watched the show and we talk
about it and we call each other on Tuesday mornings.
Lorna and I were just at the airport here in
Austin and we were flying somewhere on where we were
going and she went off to get something and I

(43:20):
was sitting there by myself and this guy came up
to me. I kind of saw him, you know, staring
at mean, you kind of notice you get that kind
of weird radar and uh. And he came up and
he's like, you know, Chris Harrison, do you mind if
I have to see usaid, sure, you know how you doing?
And nice guy and he tells me this story about
and I noticed he has a picture of this girl

(43:41):
on his shirt and he says, Hey, this is my
daughter and she just passed away. And just so you know,
she was sick for quite some time and on Monday
nights we would all gather and we would watch The Bachelor,
and that was our connection and that's how that's how

(44:01):
we escaped, and that's how she escaped. And it was
a couple hours of sanity, escapism, and relief from what
she was going through. And he said, I just want
to thank you, and that was it, and I will
end on this today because if nothing else ever came

(44:23):
from my silly job this show, that is what I
did it for. And I hear those stories all the time,
and that's what touched me. And that's why I'm so
grateful for all of you, and I'm grateful that you
took the time to listen today. And I'm unbelievably grateful

(44:44):
for this beautiful woman sitting next to me, Lauren's ema.
I love you, um who has the Emmy one of
the three sitting over her head. Um. But I am
so grateful and thank you for sharing. I know this
is something you have not been looking forward to. I
appreciate your time and your love and your support and

(45:05):
for all of you again, thank you. And next week,
next episode, we're gonna this might be a big mistake.
I want to hear from you, all of you, so
leave your comments below. On your podcast network, you can
reach us on Instagram, UM the most dramatic pod ever

(45:28):
is our handle, the most dramatic pod ever. UM. You
can reach me on my Instagram as always, leave me comments, questions,
the good, the bad, the ugly. As I said before,
in this episode, this is not about sitting in an
echo chamber. This is not about hearing your own voice
and having your ideas repeated to you. That is not helpful.

(45:50):
That's never been helpful, and I've never wanted that, nor
should you. And so let's get into it. Thank you
for listening. I'll see you next time time because we
have a lot more to talk about.