November 12, 2025 • 48 mins
Tori sits down with Dance Moms alum Nia Sioux for a raw and emotional conversation about growing up on reality TV. Nia gets candid about what really went on behind-the-scenes of Dance Moms and with Abby Lee Miller. Revealing moments the tv show didn’t air! She shares how she reclaimed her power, learned to stand up for herself, and drew strength from her mom.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Misspelling with Tori Spelling an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm good?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How are you? I am doing well? Okay, Yeah, I
just got to say I'm like a hero in my
house today because my two girls love you so much.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
That is so sweet. Oh my gosh, that is so nice.
How old are you? How old are your girls?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Fourteen and seventeen?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Oh my goodness? Okay, amazing, amazing? Are they answers to?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
They are not, but they love it love. I mean
they've seen every episode. Like I mean, I'm not gonna lie,
I have to, but I can't believe you start on
that show when you were nine. What the heck?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
That's crazy, isn't that? Isn't that just wild?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, just putting it, just relating it to my life,
Like my youngest is eight, he'll be nine in March.
Like being in that world and one of my best friends,
her daughter is she's twelve, I believe, and Kiki and
she competes professionally, and just seeing that world first of all,
(01:29):
I'll watch it with you on TV, but then having
being able to see it in real life with my
friend and what they have to go through.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It is not normal No, it's not. It is the
craziest pressure. I get pressure just living through my friend's
daughter's life, like it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Is, you get like secondhand pressure.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, so you were so you are you the only
cast member that was on every single season of that chop? Uh?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah yeah, not including the eighth season. But the eighth
season had like a totally different cast.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Wait what, I don't remember this.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
There was like a season eight, but it was like
a year or two after the show had like ended and.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Then, so no one cared about that.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Well, I wouldn't say that. I know people like it.
I just like that wasn't I'm the only one who
like finished out their contract, like one through seven was
there from the very beginning.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, oh my gosh, it literally watched You grow up? Okay,
so age nine through fifteen? Correct, I don't do math.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Uh yes, yes, nine through fifteen.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Wow, Like those are literally your formative years.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Do you ever? Do you ever watch the show back?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
No? I actually so, I watched the show back for
but like to write the book. But I don't watch
the show back just for like fun, because it honestly
agitates me, like.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It No, no, no, unless.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Like I have to and I did for the book
so that I remember things correctly to see what the audience,
like the viewers actually saw because I remember things a
certain way, but I don't know how they played things
out on the actual show and your story, Yeah, exactly exactly.
(03:37):
So yeah, I don't watch it back unless I have to.
But I'll see clips on on social media sometimes and
they're funny, like usually like they're very funny you brought
a pocket sometimes, But I think that's kind of like
the charm of the show.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Like I just gotta say I met ay Lee Miller
and and we did like it was like a women's
conference thing. And I never say hi to people because
just because I get nervous. Is it's not like I
don't know, I think growing up in this business and
being a celebrity, I always respect other celebrities and like, oh,
(04:16):
they get a million people coming up to them. So
I'm not gonna do it. But for my kids, I'll
do anything. I've become mama Bear, So I knew my
kids loved the show, and I was like, I just
got to guess, you know, ask her for a photo
and she was super nice and she sent them merch
and everything. But like reading your book. Now I'm pissed. Now,
I'm I I like the merch. I'm gonna keep the merch,
(04:40):
but I'm getting rid of that photo on my phone.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Merched. That's totally fine. My relationship with Abby is like
it's it's you know, like non existent anymore. Bunch.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I'm glad you didn't say complicated. Oh when I hate
when people are peacey. I've known, I've done it for years,
and I'm like, it's complicated. It's like, it's not complicated,
you know what it really is. Okay, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, I do know what you mean. But the thing,
you know, there is truth to that as well, Like
I don't have a relationship with her anymore, but our
our past relationship was complicated. You know, I was her
dancer since I danced under her name for since I
was like three years old. So we did have some
(05:29):
sort of relationship and bond during during those early stages.
But but you know, it just it got ruined and
and it was definitely tainted. And I you know, people's
true colors show. Uh, So it is very complicated and
and I do talk about a lot about that in
the book because you know, you know it is. I'm
(05:52):
not trying to defend her anything, but you know, there
were good moments and there were really bad moments, and
unfortunately the bad outweigh the good. So it's hard to
to even think about some of those good moments sometimes.
But but yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Just chills. But you know what, that's that's with any
relationship personally and professionally, like, and that is so brave
of you and strong of you to admit, like, there
are bad moments that outweighed, but there were good moments,
so and acknowledge those because with any relationship with a
(06:30):
family member, and in some sorts she was a family
member to you, there's gonna be bad and good. You're like, nope,
not family, Nope, nope, not saying okay, fine, I'm being nice.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
But she was. She she was an authority figure in
my life. You're in and teachers are supposed to be
people that you can look up to. They're supposed to
be role models and yeah, and she wasn't that. So
it's so it's very it's a complicated, reallyationship, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
But at the same time, you know, I don't I'm
not friends really with people that still talk to her.
But the thing is at the end of the day,
like she is this character that was on a huge
TV show. So I'm never gonna be like upset with
someone for wanting to take a picture with her because
she's I mean, she's abby and she was on this
(07:24):
huge television show. You know, most people are gonna want
to take a picture with someone like that. I'm happy
she was nice to you, though.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
She was because I thought I thought she was gonna
be scary from watching the show, and she was really nice.
How much of what was on that show with her
was a character as opposed to how she was in
real life or she was always that hard in real
life as well?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
As I always say that they made her look likable
for TV. They no, yeah, yes, yes they did. Whoa Yeah,
I think. I mean, I think you can even ask
dancers like that dance there that were that weren't on
the show or pre show. I think they could like
(08:13):
attest to that as well. But but yeah, no, that's
who she really is. They had to edit a lot
of stuff out, cut a lot of stuff out, you know,
when it when it came to like the things she
said and the things she did, the show protected her
(08:35):
in a lot of ways, because you know they're there.
They want to make sure that their show keeps running.
And unfortunately, I feel like some of the stuff that
happened probably would have could could have done some damage
to the show itself if if it was aired.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Got it? So a lot of the stuff that you
talk about in your book regarding racism, was that actually
in the show that aired?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Well? Actually some of it. Yes, there's a lot of
things in the book that I that I talk about
that were literally aired on television.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
How did that not getner canceled?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
You know, it was a different time. I think in
a post twenty twenty world, everyone kind of like I
think more people are receptive to just conversations about race
and racism. I know that for me and my mom,
we knew when these things happened. But for viewers, I
(09:38):
would say, especially like non black or like white viewers
who were watching the show, they wouldn't have really picked
up on some of the racism that happened. But there
are very like there there. It is documented the things
that happened on the show, and I go into that,
and I also go into stuff that that wasn't air
(10:00):
on the show as well. But a lot of a lot.
There were a lot of examples that I could have
that I used because it was on the show, and
no one really did and no one picked up on it.
No one picked up on it because back in the day,
those things kind of just flew over everyone's head and
(10:22):
you know, you know, things were funny and things were
acceptable back in the day. But now people are more
willing to have these conversations and are more like in
tune with with racism and microaggressions and in everything surrounding that.
So that's been really interesting as well. For just even
(10:44):
before the book came out, I like, I saw like
I saw people posting about dance moms with a different
point of view, which I found really interesting. And that's
not the reason why I felt like it was a
good time to write the book, because people started to
(11:06):
see things for what they actually were. Not everyone, but
people started seeing things and watching now that you know,
the kids watch it and now they're adults looking back,
they're like wait, and after you know, like the Black
Lives Matter movement, and you know, people watch the show
back and they're like, wait, actually that wasn't okay. Actually
that you know, we thought this was funny, but it's
(11:29):
not as funny as I thought, like as I remember
it to be, or even just certain things like it's
People can still watch it, but I've heard some people
say that they can't even watch it anymore because, you know,
it's it's hard for them to watch. Uh. So, yes,
there's still people who can watch it and take it
(11:53):
for what it is and and and giggle and laugh
and have spewed about it. You know, it's it's so
wild and crazy where you can absolutely just like watch it.
It's very calming for some people. I don't know why,
but it is. But other people have a very different
reaction now and and it's hard for them to watch.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I understand that. And for future generations, it's setting a
different standard. And it's so I'm so sorry what you
went through as a kid a young adult. And I
think it's so important though that you're putting your view
out there now looking back on the experience, because while
(12:39):
my seventeen and my fourteen year old love the show,
these are the conversations which you're referring to, that teenagers
now are having. They're so evolved and elevated that they
won't be quiet anymore. They can't be exactly, and that
will only affect future generation for their kids and for
(13:01):
your kids one day. You know, it's just do you
want kids?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I don't know, Well, I haven't. I'm like, I genuinely
don't know. I haven't really gotten that far. I haven't
really thought too much about it, which I know at
this age people start I'm like, I haven't really thought
about it. But I would say for you, I know
you said sorry, and I appreciate it. But also at
the same time, I I I don't view myself as
(13:31):
a victim. You know, I don't think I have a
victim mentality, which I think is really important, but at all,
you know, like I just I don't feel like I'm
a victim. I think that I did the best what
I could do in those situations, and I I see
myself as someone who's resilient and you know, coming out
(13:53):
of those things with like strong. But also it's interesting
too because with me releasing the story, you were saying,
You're like, I'm so happy you're able to talk about
this now and share your story, you know, not all
like I received so many positive responses and feedback, but
(14:17):
also there's a lot of people that still question me.
And are in ask me questions like well, why do
you wait so long? Why did you why are you
just talking about it now? Why? You know, like just
all questions, and I it makes me realize, like I
understand why sometimes victims wouldn't come out and say things,
or why people stay quiet because they they blame they victim,
(14:41):
blame people for for being in these situations, even though
it's it's not their doing. So yeah, it's interesting, Like, yeah,
I don't I don't see myself as a victim, but
I have gone through a lot, and you know, I
I'm proud of my story. It's it's who I am.
It's made it made me who I am today. And
(15:03):
the whole point of the book was just to finally
share my side of the story. And I know that
sometimes people still have that people are gonna say whatever,
Sometimes people don't care. Sometimes people, you know, we'll still
question what I have to say, and and you know,
and that's okay, Like I'm totally okay with that. That's
part of being human, that's part of being in this world.
(15:25):
But I do think as a whole, like I think
people just need more empathy. And and you think.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Empathy is the it's the key thing missing, in my opinion,
from the world. People want the empathy for them, but
they don't have it for others. Right, Yeah, it's so
beautiful to realize that and have that.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
If you've been ghosted, divorced, or left for someone else,
snap out of it. It's not for you to get
some help by listening to us said, I do part two.
Listen to I do Part two on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Now, I'm hearing you, and I'm proud of how resilient
and strong there has to be, though somewhere inside still
the pain, the hurt. Oh yeah, for sure, words at
least through my journey, I've realized, and we all have
a different journey, and it's you can't unhear words, and
(16:42):
you can move past it. You can work on yourself,
you can make those words make you stronger and be
you know, guide others through it. Insightful. But you know,
words that were said to me when I was young,
I still hear them. I work hard to get past it,
but I hear them in my you know inside, they
(17:04):
affect me for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, Well, I'm I'm I always say that like I
don't care what anyone says. Words still do hurt. Words
still do hurt, and they are powerful. They are powerful,
and that's the reason why I wrote my book, because
I know words are powerful and I know that words
have meeting. And also to that as well, like for me,
(17:33):
as someone who is resilient is someone who you know,
you know has just overcome a lot, I would say
for me, like, yes, I do still get hurt by
things sometimes. I and you know, writing the book has
(17:55):
been super healing, but at the same time, yeah, very
but still at the same time, it doesn't mean that
things don't sting. Sometimes things don't, you know, every once
in a while come up.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I'm I'm strong, and I think sometimes people think that
and this is something that I have I've I had
to work on as well because an abbyism that she
had or like one of her sayings was like savior
tears for the pillow, meaning like if you cry, like
that makes you weak. Never let anyone so you see
(18:31):
you cry, because that makes them have more power and
that makes them, you know, like you lose if you
if you cry, and you.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Know, believing that crying crying with a sign of weakness.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yes, exactly, And for me, I've had to really unlearn
that because for me, I want to be strong. I'm
a strong person. So I equated crying with being weak,
which I've learned that that's not the right way. Crying
is very normal and it's good for you. It's a release.
(19:06):
So nowadays, when I talk about being strong, I don't
think I I think that crying and being vulnerable and
showing your emotions is part of also being strong. That's
part of it. Being strong doesn't mean you don't cry,
doesn't mean that you don't get hurt by things. It
just means that you can navigate that that hurt and
(19:28):
redirect it. It means that you can get through those situations,
you know. So it's taken some time. But yeah, I
don't I don't think being strong means that you can't
also be hurt. And I think it's good for people
to know when you're hurt because they should. They people
(19:51):
should know when they hurt your feelings otherwise notice otherwise
they think it's okay. It's good for for people to
know that you're hurt because that's also because it also
means that you're a real human, you know, I agreed.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Sorry, I'm crying right now. I'm like, oh see it's no, see,
I have to just retreat my brain. Sorry, I'm crying.
I'm crying because this feels good to hear this from
someone else. You are redefining words and that are archaic
(20:29):
that have such like being strong. We were taught always
like exactly what you're saying. You can't do this, You
can't do that if you're strong. And I love that
you were speaking to humans out there and so many
young women and they are learning like, yeah, that's not
(20:51):
what this means. I can redefine a word and make
it mine and make it my journey. And I you
know what, if anyone says, why did you take this long? Why?
Now it's your journey, you can tell it when you want.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
To tell it exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, I'm all sorry, sorry, but.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
It's true though, Like it's what do you like? What
do you mean? Why am I sharing my story now?
Maybe because I'm not nine years old anymore, like because
you know what I mean, Like I'm an adult now.
I can actually advocate for myself in this way. I
can actually uh like write how I'm articulate, how I'm
(21:34):
feeling you know, whereas when you're in it you can't
really see everything. And also I was a child, you know.
Now that I'm an adult, I can actually write about
these things and write about it with a pretty level
head as well. So so yeah, it takes it takes
time to just process everything that I went through as well.
(21:59):
And as far as I'm concerned, which is something that
I'm very like, very grateful for, is that people do
still care about Dance Moms. People are still talking about
the show. I would even argue that Dance Moms is
probably even more prevalent now than it was back in
the day when it was airing. So I like, absolutely,
(22:20):
but I'm like, people are still watching it, you know,
people are still streaming it, which is great and I
love that, but I but I also want to recognize,
like it's not that it's not relevant, Like this is
still relevant because people are still talking about.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It, absolutely, And nostalgia is such a big deal. So
I feel like people that originally watched the show, it's
something that's a comfort on some level, Yeah, to go
back to watching it if you loved it then, and
then young people are just finding it. I mean, God
(22:56):
blessed TikTok making all of us relevant. I mean, wait,
five point eight million, No, baby, you're doing great like
it's eight years. No, you're such an inspiration. Wait, I
gotta just I love your mom. And this is just
from watching yeah, because because when I watched the show,
(23:19):
I was already having kids and like, so, well, you
guys were awesome. I was always like, looking at the mom,
I was like, oh my god, that's gonna be me
one day as my kids get older. Not a dance moment.
I could never do that. Oh my god, I can't.
I can. I can barely get my kids to school.
It's like, I think somewhere deep down, I never pushed
(23:40):
my kids into sports because I was like, I can't
do it. But I also have five so but and
I feel like your mom wasn't that either. She wasn't
like the like in it so like she was just like, yeah,
you go great. I just I don't know the ones
that used to like go like balls to the wall.
I used to just be like, that is not the mom.
(24:01):
I want to be like your mom. She was always
just so she had her own shit going on. You know,
this wasn't yeah you know what I mean, Like she's sorry.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
It's like she's like, I love my mom, And I
always I always say this, like I don't know how
she did it, Like genuinely, I don't know how she
went through seven seasons without cursing at anyone, without like
totally losing her mind. And you know what I mean,
because they really did push her buttons push.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, she had a career. I mean, it's not just
it's not like she was just a dance mom exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
You know, she she had had a career. She was
a principal, she was an education She also has you know,
two other kids besides me. She's married, you know, like
we we there were so many things like she had.
She was also working on her dissertation, you know what
(25:00):
I mean. So there's so much that she was doing.
I don't know how she kept her composure the whole time,
but she did. And I'm really grateful that I had
a good role model to look up to in those moments.
And anytime I hear something about like if anyone, you know,
like blames my mom for some that happened on the show,
(25:22):
or get mad at her for keeping me in that environment,
I I always push back on that. I always resist
that because I'm like, why I for me? And that's
the real another reason why it's so important for people
to read the book, because you really do get perspective.
It's something that I wanted to do. She really took
my lead on everything. If I didn't want to be there,
(25:44):
she would make sure that I was out of there,
you know, Like if I did not want to do that,
she would have never kept me in that environment. But
I wanted to stay. I wanted to prove a point.
I wanted to make it to the end. I wanted
to honor my contract, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And she still answer, it was your passion, it.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Was my passion. And I saw this opportunity and I
was like, I'm gonna take it. I'm not gonna let
anyone pulling me out of this opportunity that everyone else
is able to do. So I I you know, I
just I really appreciate my mom sticking buy me through
that whole thing, because it wasn't easy. And I know
(26:24):
it was hard for her as a mother seeing me
go through that and me continue in wanting to continue
my my my time on the show, even whenever it
did get toxic. I know that was hard for her.
Seeing me upset, seeing me being torn down by someone
(26:47):
who's supposed to be building me up.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
So I I and you know, it's like I understand
where people are coming from. But at the same time,
this isn't the normal or like the typical story of
like you know, the child actor being forced by their
family to like it wasn't that. It wasn't that at all.
So it's it's it's different. But I just appreciate her
(27:11):
standing with me the whole time, and she's endured so
much and I can't believe like we all went through it.
But she's the reason why I'm able to one write
about my experience today. And she's the reason why I
have self self worth and in confidence and like I'm
(27:33):
very in tune to myself and I very much am
uh like I I like myself, you know, and I'm
and I'm well adjusted and and that's because of her.
It's a it's a it's a testament to my my
parents and how they raised me. Hm.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Okay, that just inspired me so much because I hope
I am half the mon that you were. What you're saying.
I want my kids to speak of me that one day,
like that's such a legacy and so important and above
anything she taught you you're worth. She'd she raised a
(28:13):
good human.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Give her a hug for me. Oh my god, Well
I will. When there were dark moments during the time
when it was toxic, when she didn't speak out on
the show but would speak privately to you, How have
(28:37):
those conversations changed how she would frame it to you
then as opposed to does now. But she just like,
I mean, I know she'd encourage you to write the
book and everything, but just like the conversations of what
really went on, Like how brutally honest is she now?
Looking back? Privately?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
She still, I mean, very honest with me. She you know,
she'll always if she sees someone talking crazy online, she's
gonna she's gonna say something. She is she is. But yeah,
she she always kind of just has those talks with me.
Even nowadays, whenever I'm upset, I get overwhelmed, I get
(29:24):
hurt by by something or someone, and you know, she
she always keeps it real with me, you know, like
she she wants to build me up, and you know,
she we we have that relationship where we can talk
about those things openly and I'm grateful for that. But yeah,
(29:44):
she keeps it very, very candid, and and yeah, she's
very she's very She doesn't just tell me what I
want to hear. She she tells me the truth, you know.
And I think that's the reason why I'm also able
to kind of right in the way where it's like,
I'm not bash people. I'm not trying to like ruffle feathers,
(30:08):
Like if it does ruffle feathers, it's not intended to,
you know. So so yeah, but we we even on
the show, on the show, and still now like we
still have conversations about certain things that had happened, and
and we will go back to those. Sorry, that is
(30:29):
my door dash just a salad, just a salad, but.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
So sorry, I'm hungry. I left food. Tell me about it.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Have you heard about what is it called? Oh my gosh,
California Chicken Cafe. I love Sorry, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I got a Chinese chicken salad or no, that's the one.
It's my favorite.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Sorry, good, very passionate about foods.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I really needed it today. I just really needed it today.
I rediscovered it last week. I was like, oh my gosh,
I forgot about this place for I haven't had it
in so long.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Except you know what, I don't love that they put
pasta in it. That's the only thing. Really, I love
that part. And I'm a little bit more something.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I always get the past to remove. And it's not
like I don't want carbs. I just like it like
drops me off anyway.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Really, I like it's just something kind of different. I
get the texture of him, like I laughing it.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Okay, Well, I won't keep you that much on her
because I want you to go eat your salad.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You're so good.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Oh my god, this is how like I get about food.
I'm now going to have.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
To order that salad after we get off.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Like, once you hear it, you're like, oh yeah, I'm like,
my mouth's watering. Are you talking about such serious stuff?
But I just went there. I'm so sorry. Welcome to me.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
No, it's good because that solid is worth talking about.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Really, I'm literally drooling right now. I gotta like swallow
my spit. Okay, sir, where I'm just kidding. How did
your book take you to write?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
It took me, well, it took me about like two
and a half years to write and then but it's
been like a three year process. Like now that it's out,
it's been like three years since I started the process
of it. But yeah, I finished it back in June,
but it took a while. I started like my sophomore
(32:39):
or sorry, my junior year of college and I'm a
year removed from college now, so so it's taken about
three years.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Oh my gosh, it's Did you enjoy it? I mean,
I know it was therapeutic and you got it out
there and the reaction, I mean I read online reaction
you're having, like, it's incredible. Does it make you want
to write it another one?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Absolutely? Actually, it does make me want to write another book,
just to see the impact that it's had on people.
To see my words resonate with people like it, It
truly means a lot. And if there's more ways to
to continue that, I would love to do that. So
(33:27):
at some point I would love to write another book,
you know. I mean, it's also kind of like what
I went to school for, Like I went to college
for American literature, so like I went for typically an
English but I'm I love I love reading, I love learning,
I love hearing about people's stories, like I love a memoir.
(33:50):
So like I I just I'm just that kind of
person who loves that kind of stuff. So yeah, I
definitely think in the future, hopefully I'll be able to
write more. But I've been so grateful for all of
the support that I've received through this book, because it
(34:12):
is hard, and it is scary releasing something like this
when I know that, you know, you know, it's it
feels like sometimes I'm alone in this. Not that I'm
alone alone, but like publicly alone in this, you know,
so to have Yeah, So the fact that people have
(34:35):
enjoyed the book. People have gotten a lot out of
the book, not just clarification on the show itself and
how that affected me, but a way for them to
learn how to get through difficult situations and to not
back down and to fight through and to push through,
and to learn how to not let anyone like bully
(34:58):
you out of anything. It's resonated with a lot of people.
It's in its affected people, and I love seeing people's
messages because they're all so positive. And I think one
of the things that for me, like that I love
(35:21):
the most about you know, what people say about the
book is that they have you know, they they're they're
learning how to be more confident, they're learning how to
advocate for themselves through my story. They see themselves in
my story, and that's helping them get through whatever they're
getting through. And that has been therapeutic, and that has
(35:46):
been amazing. And you know, that's like the whole reason
why I even really wanted to put the book out
is because I know that I'm not the only one
who has been through things like this. You know, although
very like unique, it's a very universal experience as.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, right, it is, but it isn't. So there's that
connection that no one, no one can truly understand. I
know I'm hearing you when you say you're alone publicly
because they only you were in that world, in your
shoes and the people around you. But the message goes
(36:25):
so far beyond, yes, the connection. By the way, I
could listen to your voice all day. You have the
best point. It is so sweet too.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I think mine. I don't know. When I hear videos
back of me talking, I wouldn't say the same, but
thank you. That means a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Like public speaking is your jam, Like you have such
a calm, beautiful, strong but kind voice. It's so warm
and genuine. That is so sweet, honestly, and that I
always go with my gut and that's how I feel.
So but I just, oh, my gosh, what's next for you?
(37:09):
What do you want to do next?
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Well, it kind of goes hand in hand and with
me loving stories, but I just want to I just
want to tell stories, you know. I'm a storyteller. I'm
a performer. I want to get back to performing because
I took some time off for college because I wanted
to focus on my education. But I want to get
back into acting and music and just everything. I want
to get back on a stage, onto a set and
(37:35):
just do what I do. Like I'm a performer, I'm
I'm someone who loves to tell a story. You know,
That's just who I am at the heart. So getting
back into all of that.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
What Okay? I know you like Broadway shows. What Broadway
show would you love to start in?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Probably The Wiz because The Wiz is my favorite movie.
So probably The The.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Wiz as a kid.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
I love The Wiz as a kid, like genuinely loved it,
probably or like Mama Mia even yeah, I feel like The.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Wiz was in not just the movie, but I actually
saw it like.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Tour, did you Yes, that's cool. I saw the tour.
I think it was like a couple of years ago
when it was at the Pantages and in La so
I saw it then.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
I think that's where I don't know it was. I
saw yes when I was a kid. I mean, I'm
like a million years older than you, but like, oh
my gosh, it's so interesting. I had such a yeah,
very special.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
I grew up loving the Whiz, so that would be
that would definitely be probably like number one.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
But okay, cooler manifesting that what's.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Next that I was gonna say, Mamma Mia. I loved
Mama Mia. Yeah, let's see. My gosh, that's some of
my other favorite. I just love Broadway, like I just
I love theater. I'm a I'm a theater kid. Oh
(39:15):
when I'm older, When i'm older, Chicago, I can't do
that role yet, but like Chicago, when I'm older, that
would be probably like a dream. I saw Brandy in
Chicago years ago. I also saw actually Graham in Chicago
earlier this year, which was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Oh gosh, it's so funny. I was speaking Chicago, but
I like that. I forget how old I am. So
I'm like talking to you like we're equals, and I
was like, you should be in Chicago, but I forget
you need to be older to be in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Chicago. Though I.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Have ideas. I'm an idea person, imagine wait wait okay,
I'm a focus for a second doing a version of
mean Girl. But it's your experience with Dan.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
It would be like.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Kind of self deprecating, kind of like that, it's little
fun but resonating ideally of like what you went, like
a combination?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I mean, should we make it happen? Wait?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Really?
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Yeah? Why not?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
I don't know. No one wants to our idea we
said to here, Yeah, we're on it. Oh my god,
woo Like, so do we gotta get lawyers with this?
I'm going to produce this, but we can do a
teav Okay wait wait, okay, we'll talk about this afterst
Oh my god, I'm very excited. Okay, anyway, you know
(40:44):
what I'm saying, right, I.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Know what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Okay, it's like, yeah, and we can't get the right
to mean Girls, so whatever, but we can make it
our This is so good. I just think it really
and just hearing you speak today. It's like really really
inspired me. I love this, okay. Sorry, And you're a foodie,
(41:10):
Oh god, I am.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
I am, Oh my gosh, I love myself a good meal.
I do.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Do you like sushi?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I do. I just started liking sushi like a couple
of years ago though. Yeah, but it's not because of
the raw fish part. Like that doesn't bother me. It
was more just I'm foodie. I'm foodie, but I'm also picky.
But I'm like, I call myself.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I like that, Okay, go on, because.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I didn't like I don't like a ton of stuff
in it. Like I don't like seaweed, I don't like cucumber,
I don't really like avocado, and it's like that all
that stuff is usually in sushi. But like I like sashimi.
I like the I think it's been the gary the
or like I'll use like soy paper instead of seaweed.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
That's okay. But I'm a little foodie.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
But yeah, I like sushi. Do you have a good
spot that you like to go to?
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Oh yeah, I can tell you. Oh my god, wait
where do you live? Sorry, we'll edit this out.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
I live in North Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Oh oh my god. Wait, I just went to the
best place. It's on Kuwanga and oh my god, it's
right near you. I'll slide into your DMS later and
tell you it's it's okay t mokey to Liam, it's
(42:43):
this chef and he has places like you know, downtown,
he has ones on Satel. This is like his fourth incarnation,
I think, but it is incredible.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Talking about I don't know what it's called, but like,
I like, now, is that worth like kind of near?
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Where that in and out?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Oh? Sushi mochi? Yes, okay, I'm writing that down.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Oh my god, you have to go.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
I'm going to go.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
I'll go with you. As we discussed this, this play
mu show, we're going to do cool. It's really good,
like good and you don't have to get all the
like stuff in the roles and stuff and all that
like whatever. It's like fresh and they it's incredible. Sorry,
I get very excited. So do you like what other
(43:42):
foods you like? Italian?
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah? I love Italian? Sorry?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
What's your favorite words in your mouth? Sorry? I'm telling
you what I like. Well, I.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Love everything, like genuinely, like I love everything truly. I
love tie. Let's see Chinese food is probably my favorite.
Like I just I love Chinese food. I also love
like like I don't know no where is that.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
It's uh maybe West Hills, like deep maybe near north Ridge, Omos.
It's like okay, Asian fusion, but it's like it's really good.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Okay. Oh. I also love Greek food.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I love I love Greek food.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
I love Greek food, and I love and I love
soul food as well in barbecue. So like everything I like,
I like everything. There's not really like a food where
I'm like, I don't really like that kind of like
we do cook. I do cook, just not a lot.
Like I I can cook, I just don't really have
(44:53):
time to cook, so I don't really cook that much suck.
So yeah, it's also that. But it's like when people like,
can you cook, I'm like, yes, I can actually, And
when I cook, my friends like get excited because because
they like when I cook. But I just don't do
it that often. I need to do it more. But
but yeah, I love to cook. I'm really a baker though,
(45:16):
Like I'm really good at baking.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Oh my daughter is a baker really yeah, so I'm
My thing is I'm of the belief that you can
do both well, but you're either truly a cook or
you're truly a baker.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Right, I'm truly I'm truly a baker.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
I'm one science related like one. It's a different part
of your brain.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Mm hmmm. I I mean people always say that, which
I understand, but also like, I just am really good
at following recipes I think.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
But I'm not really really because for me, I'm like okay, oh, okay, okay,
ye cook.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Then yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yeah. For me, I like I can follow the recipes
like really, well, so what's your favorite thing to make? Oh?
My favorite thing the bake. Probably cookies. Those are my favorites.
And then last year I got really into making cinnamon rules.
They're really yummy too. I learned how to make a
really good cinnamon roll.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, you'll have to share. My daughter Stella, who I
feel like you, guys, I have so much in common
personality wise and strength, and you have a lot in
common so far. She is a baker and she made
red velvet cinnamon rules this week, and we're really good.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
That sounds amazing, that sounds incredible.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Well, I want to thank you. I'm sorry. I want
to let you get to your salad. I'm like, very
concerned that your salad's gonna wilt. O. Hey, at least
I care.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
At least you care. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
I totally care.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Anyway, everyone should get your book Bottom of the Pyramid,
Memoir of Persevering, Dancing for Myself and Starring in my
own life. You are such an inspiration and it's on audiobook.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
And I'm actually narrating it too, as you should.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
You have the best voice. You say your voice over
work too.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
I love. I want want to get into that. I
want to get into more.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
You can't do everything. I have big plan. I have
big plans for you. You've inspired.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I appreciate it. I'm like, you're on the.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Team honestly, Like, yeah, I'm really good at doing it,
like inspiring and helping and being on other seams and
like can't do it for myself. Like that's right. I
shit the bed. But I'm learning. I'm learning. Your ear
actually inspired me today and you're teaching me and I
(48:03):
like this.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I love it. Well, thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Thank you. Wait can I slide into your DMS?
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Can you say that like friend to friend or slide
into DMS mean something like creepy.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
No, no, that's fine, that's totally fine.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Wait one of my what are the young people say?
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Yeah, that's totally fine, that's not creepy.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Okay, yeah about you guys. I'm gonna slide to her DMS.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
With Tusian work.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Okay, awesome, Thank you so much
Speaker 3 (48:40):
Of course, thank you so much.
Misspelling with Tori Spelling an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm good?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How are you? I am doing well? Okay, Yeah, I
just got to say I'm like a hero in my
house today because my two girls love you so much.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
That is so sweet. Oh my gosh, that is so nice.
How old are you? How old are your girls?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Fourteen and seventeen?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Oh my goodness? Okay, amazing, amazing? Are they answers to?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
They are not, but they love it love. I mean
they've seen every episode. Like I mean, I'm not gonna lie,
I have to, but I can't believe you start on
that show when you were nine. What the heck?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
That's crazy, isn't that? Isn't that just wild?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, just putting it, just relating it to my life,
Like my youngest is eight, he'll be nine in March.
Like being in that world and one of my best friends,
her daughter is she's twelve, I believe, and Kiki and
she competes professionally, and just seeing that world first of all,
(01:29):
I'll watch it with you on TV, but then having
being able to see it in real life with my
friend and what they have to go through.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It is not normal No, it's not. It is the
craziest pressure. I get pressure just living through my friend's
daughter's life, like it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Is, you get like secondhand pressure.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, so you were so you are you the only
cast member that was on every single season of that chop? Uh?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah yeah, not including the eighth season. But the eighth
season had like a totally different cast.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Wait what, I don't remember this.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
There was like a season eight, but it was like
a year or two after the show had like ended and.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Then, so no one cared about that.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Well, I wouldn't say that. I know people like it.
I just like that wasn't I'm the only one who
like finished out their contract, like one through seven was
there from the very beginning.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, oh my gosh, it literally watched You grow up? Okay,
so age nine through fifteen? Correct, I don't do math.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Uh yes, yes, nine through fifteen.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Wow, Like those are literally your formative years.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Do you ever? Do you ever watch the show back?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
No? I actually so, I watched the show back for
but like to write the book. But I don't watch
the show back just for like fun, because it honestly
agitates me, like.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It No, no, no, unless.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Like I have to and I did for the book
so that I remember things correctly to see what the audience,
like the viewers actually saw because I remember things a
certain way, but I don't know how they played things
out on the actual show and your story, Yeah, exactly exactly.
(03:37):
So yeah, I don't watch it back unless I have to.
But I'll see clips on on social media sometimes and
they're funny, like usually like they're very funny you brought
a pocket sometimes, But I think that's kind of like
the charm of the show.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Like I just gotta say I met ay Lee Miller
and and we did like it was like a women's
conference thing. And I never say hi to people because
just because I get nervous. Is it's not like I
don't know, I think growing up in this business and
being a celebrity, I always respect other celebrities and like, oh,
(04:16):
they get a million people coming up to them. So
I'm not gonna do it. But for my kids, I'll
do anything. I've become mama Bear, So I knew my
kids loved the show, and I was like, I just
got to guess, you know, ask her for a photo
and she was super nice and she sent them merch
and everything. But like reading your book. Now I'm pissed. Now,
I'm I I like the merch. I'm gonna keep the merch,
(04:40):
but I'm getting rid of that photo on my phone.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Merched. That's totally fine. My relationship with Abby is like
it's it's you know, like non existent anymore. Bunch.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I'm glad you didn't say complicated. Oh when I hate
when people are peacey. I've known, I've done it for years,
and I'm like, it's complicated. It's like, it's not complicated,
you know what it really is. Okay, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, I do know what you mean. But the thing,
you know, there is truth to that as well, Like
I don't have a relationship with her anymore, but our
our past relationship was complicated. You know, I was her
dancer since I danced under her name for since I
was like three years old. So we did have some
(05:29):
sort of relationship and bond during during those early stages.
But but you know, it just it got ruined and
and it was definitely tainted. And I you know, people's
true colors show. Uh, So it is very complicated and
and I do talk about a lot about that in
the book because you know, you know it is. I'm
(05:52):
not trying to defend her anything, but you know, there
were good moments and there were really bad moments, and
unfortunately the bad outweigh the good. So it's hard to
to even think about some of those good moments sometimes.
But but yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Just chills. But you know what, that's that's with any
relationship personally and professionally, like, and that is so brave
of you and strong of you to admit, like, there
are bad moments that outweighed, but there were good moments,
so and acknowledge those because with any relationship with a
(06:30):
family member, and in some sorts she was a family
member to you, there's gonna be bad and good. You're like, nope,
not family, Nope, nope, not saying okay, fine, I'm being nice.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
But she was. She she was an authority figure in
my life. You're in and teachers are supposed to be
people that you can look up to. They're supposed to
be role models and yeah, and she wasn't that. So
it's so it's very it's a complicated, reallyationship, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
But at the same time, you know, I don't I'm
not friends really with people that still talk to her.
But the thing is at the end of the day,
like she is this character that was on a huge
TV show. So I'm never gonna be like upset with
someone for wanting to take a picture with her because
she's I mean, she's abby and she was on this
(07:24):
huge television show. You know, most people are gonna want
to take a picture with someone like that. I'm happy
she was nice to you, though.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
She was because I thought I thought she was gonna
be scary from watching the show, and she was really nice.
How much of what was on that show with her
was a character as opposed to how she was in
real life or she was always that hard in real
life as well?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
As I always say that they made her look likable
for TV. They no, yeah, yes, yes they did. Whoa Yeah,
I think. I mean, I think you can even ask
dancers like that dance there that were that weren't on
the show or pre show. I think they could like
(08:13):
attest to that as well. But but yeah, no, that's
who she really is. They had to edit a lot
of stuff out, cut a lot of stuff out, you know,
when it when it came to like the things she
said and the things she did, the show protected her
(08:35):
in a lot of ways, because you know they're there.
They want to make sure that their show keeps running.
And unfortunately, I feel like some of the stuff that
happened probably would have could could have done some damage
to the show itself if if it was aired.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Got it? So a lot of the stuff that you
talk about in your book regarding racism, was that actually
in the show that aired?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Well? Actually some of it. Yes, there's a lot of
things in the book that I that I talk about
that were literally aired on television.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
How did that not getner canceled?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
You know, it was a different time. I think in
a post twenty twenty world, everyone kind of like I
think more people are receptive to just conversations about race
and racism. I know that for me and my mom,
we knew when these things happened. But for viewers, I
(09:38):
would say, especially like non black or like white viewers
who were watching the show, they wouldn't have really picked
up on some of the racism that happened. But there
are very like there there. It is documented the things
that happened on the show, and I go into that,
and I also go into stuff that that wasn't air
(10:00):
on the show as well. But a lot of a lot.
There were a lot of examples that I could have
that I used because it was on the show, and
no one really did and no one picked up on it.
No one picked up on it because back in the day,
those things kind of just flew over everyone's head and
(10:22):
you know, you know, things were funny and things were
acceptable back in the day. But now people are more
willing to have these conversations and are more like in
tune with with racism and microaggressions and in everything surrounding that.
So that's been really interesting as well. For just even
(10:44):
before the book came out, I like, I saw like
I saw people posting about dance moms with a different
point of view, which I found really interesting. And that's
not the reason why I felt like it was a
good time to write the book, because people started to
(11:06):
see things for what they actually were. Not everyone, but
people started seeing things and watching now that you know,
the kids watch it and now they're adults looking back,
they're like wait, and after you know, like the Black
Lives Matter movement, and you know, people watch the show
back and they're like, wait, actually that wasn't okay. Actually
that you know, we thought this was funny, but it's
(11:29):
not as funny as I thought, like as I remember
it to be, or even just certain things like it's
People can still watch it, but I've heard some people
say that they can't even watch it anymore because, you know,
it's it's hard for them to watch. Uh. So, yes,
there's still people who can watch it and take it
(11:53):
for what it is and and and giggle and laugh
and have spewed about it. You know, it's it's so
wild and crazy where you can absolutely just like watch it.
It's very calming for some people. I don't know why,
but it is. But other people have a very different
reaction now and and it's hard for them to watch.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I understand that. And for future generations, it's setting a
different standard. And it's so I'm so sorry what you
went through as a kid a young adult. And I
think it's so important though that you're putting your view
out there now looking back on the experience, because while
(12:39):
my seventeen and my fourteen year old love the show,
these are the conversations which you're referring to, that teenagers
now are having. They're so evolved and elevated that they
won't be quiet anymore. They can't be exactly, and that
will only affect future generation for their kids and for
(13:01):
your kids one day. You know, it's just do you
want kids?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I don't know, Well, I haven't. I'm like, I genuinely
don't know. I haven't really gotten that far. I haven't
really thought too much about it, which I know at
this age people start I'm like, I haven't really thought
about it. But I would say for you, I know
you said sorry, and I appreciate it. But also at
the same time, I I I don't view myself as
(13:31):
a victim. You know, I don't think I have a
victim mentality, which I think is really important, but at all,
you know, like I just I don't feel like I'm
a victim. I think that I did the best what
I could do in those situations, and I I see
myself as someone who's resilient and you know, coming out
(13:53):
of those things with like strong. But also it's interesting
too because with me releasing the story, you were saying,
You're like, I'm so happy you're able to talk about
this now and share your story, you know, not all
like I received so many positive responses and feedback, but
(14:17):
also there's a lot of people that still question me.
And are in ask me questions like well, why do
you wait so long? Why did you why are you
just talking about it now? Why? You know, like just
all questions, and I it makes me realize, like I
understand why sometimes victims wouldn't come out and say things,
or why people stay quiet because they they blame they victim,
(14:41):
blame people for for being in these situations, even though
it's it's not their doing. So yeah, it's interesting, Like, yeah,
I don't I don't see myself as a victim, but
I have gone through a lot, and you know, I
I'm proud of my story. It's it's who I am.
It's made it made me who I am today. And
(15:03):
the whole point of the book was just to finally
share my side of the story. And I know that
sometimes people still have that people are gonna say whatever,
Sometimes people don't care. Sometimes people, you know, we'll still
question what I have to say, and and you know,
and that's okay, Like I'm totally okay with that. That's
part of being human, that's part of being in this world.
(15:25):
But I do think as a whole, like I think
people just need more empathy. And and you think.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Empathy is the it's the key thing missing, in my opinion,
from the world. People want the empathy for them, but
they don't have it for others. Right, Yeah, it's so
beautiful to realize that and have that.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
If you've been ghosted, divorced, or left for someone else,
snap out of it. It's not for you to get
some help by listening to us said, I do part two.
Listen to I do Part two on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Now, I'm hearing you, and I'm proud of how resilient
and strong there has to be, though somewhere inside still
the pain, the hurt. Oh yeah, for sure, words at
least through my journey, I've realized, and we all have
a different journey, and it's you can't unhear words, and
(16:42):
you can move past it. You can work on yourself,
you can make those words make you stronger and be
you know, guide others through it. Insightful. But you know,
words that were said to me when I was young,
I still hear them. I work hard to get past it,
but I hear them in my you know inside, they
(17:04):
affect me for sure.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, Well, I'm I'm I always say that like I
don't care what anyone says. Words still do hurt. Words
still do hurt, and they are powerful. They are powerful,
and that's the reason why I wrote my book, because
I know words are powerful and I know that words
have meeting. And also to that as well, like for me,
(17:33):
as someone who is resilient is someone who you know,
you know has just overcome a lot, I would say
for me, like, yes, I do still get hurt by
things sometimes. I and you know, writing the book has
(17:55):
been super healing, but at the same time, yeah, very
but still at the same time, it doesn't mean that
things don't sting. Sometimes things don't, you know, every once
in a while come up.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I'm I'm strong, and I think sometimes people think that
and this is something that I have I've I had
to work on as well because an abbyism that she
had or like one of her sayings was like savior
tears for the pillow, meaning like if you cry, like
that makes you weak. Never let anyone so you see
(18:31):
you cry, because that makes them have more power and
that makes them, you know, like you lose if you
if you cry, and you.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Know, believing that crying crying with a sign of weakness.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yes, exactly, And for me, I've had to really unlearn
that because for me, I want to be strong. I'm
a strong person. So I equated crying with being weak,
which I've learned that that's not the right way. Crying
is very normal and it's good for you. It's a release.
(19:06):
So nowadays, when I talk about being strong, I don't
think I I think that crying and being vulnerable and
showing your emotions is part of also being strong. That's
part of it. Being strong doesn't mean you don't cry,
doesn't mean that you don't get hurt by things. It
just means that you can navigate that that hurt and
(19:28):
redirect it. It means that you can get through those situations,
you know. So it's taken some time. But yeah, I
don't I don't think being strong means that you can't
also be hurt. And I think it's good for people
to know when you're hurt because they should. They people
(19:51):
should know when they hurt your feelings otherwise notice otherwise
they think it's okay. It's good for for people to
know that you're hurt because that's also because it also
means that you're a real human, you know, I agreed.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Sorry, I'm crying right now. I'm like, oh see it's no, see,
I have to just retreat my brain. Sorry, I'm crying.
I'm crying because this feels good to hear this from
someone else. You are redefining words and that are archaic
(20:29):
that have such like being strong. We were taught always
like exactly what you're saying. You can't do this, You
can't do that if you're strong. And I love that
you were speaking to humans out there and so many
young women and they are learning like, yeah, that's not
(20:51):
what this means. I can redefine a word and make
it mine and make it my journey. And I you
know what, if anyone says, why did you take this long? Why?
Now it's your journey, you can tell it when you want.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
To tell it exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, I'm all sorry, sorry, but.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
It's true though, Like it's what do you like? What
do you mean? Why am I sharing my story now?
Maybe because I'm not nine years old anymore, like because
you know what I mean, Like I'm an adult now.
I can actually advocate for myself in this way. I
can actually uh like write how I'm articulate, how I'm
(21:34):
feeling you know, whereas when you're in it you can't
really see everything. And also I was a child, you know.
Now that I'm an adult, I can actually write about
these things and write about it with a pretty level
head as well. So so yeah, it takes it takes
time to just process everything that I went through as well.
(21:59):
And as far as I'm concerned, which is something that
I'm very like, very grateful for, is that people do
still care about Dance Moms. People are still talking about
the show. I would even argue that Dance Moms is
probably even more prevalent now than it was back in
the day when it was airing. So I like, absolutely,
(22:20):
but I'm like, people are still watching it, you know,
people are still streaming it, which is great and I
love that, but I but I also want to recognize,
like it's not that it's not relevant, Like this is
still relevant because people are still talking about.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It, absolutely, And nostalgia is such a big deal. So
I feel like people that originally watched the show, it's
something that's a comfort on some level, Yeah, to go
back to watching it if you loved it then, and
then young people are just finding it. I mean, God
(22:56):
blessed TikTok making all of us relevant. I mean, wait,
five point eight million, No, baby, you're doing great like
it's eight years. No, you're such an inspiration. Wait, I
gotta just I love your mom. And this is just
from watching yeah, because because when I watched the show,
(23:19):
I was already having kids and like, so, well, you
guys were awesome. I was always like, looking at the mom,
I was like, oh my god, that's gonna be me
one day as my kids get older. Not a dance moment.
I could never do that. Oh my god, I can't.
I can. I can barely get my kids to school.
It's like, I think somewhere deep down, I never pushed
(23:40):
my kids into sports because I was like, I can't
do it. But I also have five so but and
I feel like your mom wasn't that either. She wasn't
like the like in it so like she was just like, yeah,
you go great. I just I don't know the ones
that used to like go like balls to the wall.
I used to just be like, that is not the mom.
(24:01):
I want to be like your mom. She was always
just so she had her own shit going on. You know,
this wasn't yeah you know what I mean, Like she's sorry.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
It's like she's like, I love my mom, And I
always I always say this, like I don't know how
she did it, Like genuinely, I don't know how she
went through seven seasons without cursing at anyone, without like
totally losing her mind. And you know what I mean,
because they really did push her buttons push.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, she had a career. I mean, it's not just
it's not like she was just a dance mom exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
You know, she she had had a career. She was
a principal, she was an education She also has you know,
two other kids besides me. She's married, you know, like
we we there were so many things like she had.
She was also working on her dissertation, you know what
(25:00):
I mean. So there's so much that she was doing.
I don't know how she kept her composure the whole time,
but she did. And I'm really grateful that I had
a good role model to look up to in those moments.
And anytime I hear something about like if anyone, you know,
like blames my mom for some that happened on the show,
(25:22):
or get mad at her for keeping me in that environment,
I I always push back on that. I always resist
that because I'm like, why I for me? And that's
the real another reason why it's so important for people
to read the book, because you really do get perspective.
It's something that I wanted to do. She really took
my lead on everything. If I didn't want to be there,
(25:44):
she would make sure that I was out of there,
you know, Like if I did not want to do that,
she would have never kept me in that environment. But
I wanted to stay. I wanted to prove a point.
I wanted to make it to the end. I wanted
to honor my contract, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And she still answer, it was your passion, it.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Was my passion. And I saw this opportunity and I
was like, I'm gonna take it. I'm not gonna let
anyone pulling me out of this opportunity that everyone else
is able to do. So I I you know, I
just I really appreciate my mom sticking buy me through
that whole thing, because it wasn't easy. And I know
(26:24):
it was hard for her as a mother seeing me
go through that and me continue in wanting to continue
my my my time on the show, even whenever it
did get toxic. I know that was hard for her.
Seeing me upset, seeing me being torn down by someone
(26:47):
who's supposed to be building me up.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
So I I and you know, it's like I understand
where people are coming from. But at the same time,
this isn't the normal or like the typical story of
like you know, the child actor being forced by their
family to like it wasn't that. It wasn't that at all.
So it's it's it's different. But I just appreciate her
(27:11):
standing with me the whole time, and she's endured so
much and I can't believe like we all went through it.
But she's the reason why I'm able to one write
about my experience today. And she's the reason why I
have self self worth and in confidence and like I'm
(27:33):
very in tune to myself and I very much am
uh like I I like myself, you know, and I'm
and I'm well adjusted and and that's because of her.
It's a it's a it's a testament to my my
parents and how they raised me. Hm.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Okay, that just inspired me so much because I hope
I am half the mon that you were. What you're saying.
I want my kids to speak of me that one day,
like that's such a legacy and so important and above
anything she taught you you're worth. She'd she raised a
(28:13):
good human.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Give her a hug for me. Oh my god, Well
I will. When there were dark moments during the time
when it was toxic, when she didn't speak out on
the show but would speak privately to you, How have
(28:37):
those conversations changed how she would frame it to you
then as opposed to does now. But she just like,
I mean, I know she'd encourage you to write the
book and everything, but just like the conversations of what
really went on, Like how brutally honest is she now?
Looking back? Privately?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
She still, I mean, very honest with me. She you know,
she'll always if she sees someone talking crazy online, she's
gonna she's gonna say something. She is she is. But yeah,
she she always kind of just has those talks with me.
Even nowadays, whenever I'm upset, I get overwhelmed, I get
(29:24):
hurt by by something or someone, and you know, she
she always keeps it real with me, you know, like
she she wants to build me up, and you know,
she we we have that relationship where we can talk
about those things openly and I'm grateful for that. But yeah,
(29:44):
she keeps it very, very candid, and and yeah, she's
very she's very She doesn't just tell me what I
want to hear. She she tells me the truth, you know.
And I think that's the reason why I'm also able
to kind of right in the way where it's like,
I'm not bash people. I'm not trying to like ruffle feathers,
(30:08):
Like if it does ruffle feathers, it's not intended to,
you know. So so yeah, but we we even on
the show, on the show, and still now like we
still have conversations about certain things that had happened, and
and we will go back to those. Sorry, that is
(30:29):
my door dash just a salad, just a salad, but.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
So sorry, I'm hungry. I left food. Tell me about it.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Have you heard about what is it called? Oh my gosh,
California Chicken Cafe. I love Sorry, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I got a Chinese chicken salad or no, that's the one.
It's my favorite.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Sorry, good, very passionate about foods.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I really needed it today. I just really needed it today.
I rediscovered it last week. I was like, oh my gosh,
I forgot about this place for I haven't had it
in so long.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Except you know what, I don't love that they put
pasta in it. That's the only thing. Really, I love
that part. And I'm a little bit more something.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I always get the past to remove. And it's not
like I don't want carbs. I just like it like
drops me off anyway.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Really, I like it's just something kind of different. I
get the texture of him, like I laughing it.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Okay, Well, I won't keep you that much on her
because I want you to go eat your salad.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You're so good.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Oh my god, this is how like I get about food.
I'm now going to have.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
To order that salad after we get off.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Like, once you hear it, you're like, oh yeah, I'm like,
my mouth's watering. Are you talking about such serious stuff?
But I just went there. I'm so sorry. Welcome to me.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
No, it's good because that solid is worth talking about.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Really, I'm literally drooling right now. I gotta like swallow
my spit. Okay, sir, where I'm just kidding. How did
your book take you to write?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
It took me, well, it took me about like two
and a half years to write and then but it's
been like a three year process. Like now that it's out,
it's been like three years since I started the process
of it. But yeah, I finished it back in June,
but it took a while. I started like my sophomore
(32:39):
or sorry, my junior year of college and I'm a
year removed from college now, so so it's taken about
three years.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Oh my gosh, it's Did you enjoy it? I mean,
I know it was therapeutic and you got it out
there and the reaction, I mean I read online reaction
you're having, like, it's incredible. Does it make you want
to write it another one?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Absolutely? Actually, it does make me want to write another book,
just to see the impact that it's had on people.
To see my words resonate with people like it, It
truly means a lot. And if there's more ways to
to continue that, I would love to do that. So
(33:27):
at some point I would love to write another book,
you know. I mean, it's also kind of like what
I went to school for, Like I went to college
for American literature, so like I went for typically an
English but I'm I love I love reading, I love learning,
I love hearing about people's stories, like I love a memoir.
(33:50):
So like I I just I'm just that kind of
person who loves that kind of stuff. So yeah, I
definitely think in the future, hopefully I'll be able to
write more. But I've been so grateful for all of
the support that I've received through this book, because it
(34:12):
is hard, and it is scary releasing something like this
when I know that, you know, you know, it's it
feels like sometimes I'm alone in this. Not that I'm
alone alone, but like publicly alone in this, you know,
so to have Yeah, So the fact that people have
(34:35):
enjoyed the book. People have gotten a lot out of
the book, not just clarification on the show itself and
how that affected me, but a way for them to
learn how to get through difficult situations and to not
back down and to fight through and to push through,
and to learn how to not let anyone like bully
(34:58):
you out of anything. It's resonated with a lot of people.
It's in its affected people, and I love seeing people's
messages because they're all so positive. And I think one
of the things that for me, like that I love
(35:21):
the most about you know, what people say about the
book is that they have you know, they they're they're
learning how to be more confident, they're learning how to
advocate for themselves through my story. They see themselves in
my story, and that's helping them get through whatever they're
getting through. And that has been therapeutic, and that has
(35:46):
been amazing. And you know, that's like the whole reason
why I even really wanted to put the book out
is because I know that I'm not the only one
who has been through things like this. You know, although
very like unique, it's a very universal experience as.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, right, it is, but it isn't. So there's that
connection that no one, no one can truly understand. I
know I'm hearing you when you say you're alone publicly
because they only you were in that world, in your
shoes and the people around you. But the message goes
(36:25):
so far beyond, yes, the connection. By the way, I
could listen to your voice all day. You have the
best point. It is so sweet too.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I think mine. I don't know. When I hear videos
back of me talking, I wouldn't say the same, but
thank you. That means a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Like public speaking is your jam, Like you have such
a calm, beautiful, strong but kind voice. It's so warm
and genuine. That is so sweet, honestly, and that I
always go with my gut and that's how I feel.
So but I just, oh, my gosh, what's next for you?
(37:09):
What do you want to do next?
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Well, it kind of goes hand in hand and with
me loving stories, but I just want to I just
want to tell stories, you know. I'm a storyteller. I'm
a performer. I want to get back to performing because
I took some time off for college because I wanted
to focus on my education. But I want to get
back into acting and music and just everything. I want
to get back on a stage, onto a set and
(37:35):
just do what I do. Like I'm a performer, I'm
I'm someone who loves to tell a story. You know,
That's just who I am at the heart. So getting
back into all of that.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
What Okay? I know you like Broadway shows. What Broadway
show would you love to start in?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Probably The Wiz because The Wiz is my favorite movie.
So probably The The.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Wiz as a kid.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
I love The Wiz as a kid, like genuinely loved it,
probably or like Mama Mia even yeah, I feel like The.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Wiz was in not just the movie, but I actually
saw it like.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Tour, did you Yes, that's cool. I saw the tour.
I think it was like a couple of years ago
when it was at the Pantages and in La so
I saw it then.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
I think that's where I don't know it was. I
saw yes when I was a kid. I mean, I'm
like a million years older than you, but like, oh
my gosh, it's so interesting. I had such a yeah,
very special.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
I grew up loving the Whiz, so that would be
that would definitely be probably like number one.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
But okay, cooler manifesting that what's.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Next that I was gonna say, Mamma Mia. I loved
Mama Mia. Yeah, let's see. My gosh, that's some of
my other favorite. I just love Broadway, like I just
I love theater. I'm a I'm a theater kid. Oh
(39:15):
when I'm older, When i'm older, Chicago, I can't do
that role yet, but like Chicago, when I'm older, that
would be probably like a dream. I saw Brandy in
Chicago years ago. I also saw actually Graham in Chicago
earlier this year, which was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Oh gosh, it's so funny. I was speaking Chicago, but
I like that. I forget how old I am. So
I'm like talking to you like we're equals, and I
was like, you should be in Chicago, but I forget
you need to be older to be in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Chicago. Though I.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Have ideas. I'm an idea person, imagine wait wait okay,
I'm a focus for a second doing a version of
mean Girl. But it's your experience with Dan.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
It would be like.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Kind of self deprecating, kind of like that, it's little
fun but resonating ideally of like what you went, like
a combination?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I mean, should we make it happen? Wait?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Really?
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Yeah? Why not?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
I don't know. No one wants to our idea we
said to here, Yeah, we're on it. Oh my god,
woo Like, so do we gotta get lawyers with this?
I'm going to produce this, but we can do a
teav Okay wait wait, okay, we'll talk about this afterst
Oh my god, I'm very excited. Okay, anyway, you know
(40:44):
what I'm saying, right, I.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Know what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Okay, it's like, yeah, and we can't get the right
to mean Girls, so whatever, but we can make it
our This is so good. I just think it really
and just hearing you speak today. It's like really really
inspired me. I love this, okay. Sorry, And you're a foodie,
(41:10):
Oh god, I am.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
I am, Oh my gosh, I love myself a good meal.
I do.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Do you like sushi?
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I do. I just started liking sushi like a couple
of years ago though. Yeah, but it's not because of
the raw fish part. Like that doesn't bother me. It
was more just I'm foodie. I'm foodie, but I'm also picky.
But I'm like, I call myself.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I like that, Okay, go on, because.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I didn't like I don't like a ton of stuff
in it. Like I don't like seaweed, I don't like cucumber,
I don't really like avocado, and it's like that all
that stuff is usually in sushi. But like I like sashimi.
I like the I think it's been the gary the
or like I'll use like soy paper instead of seaweed.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
That's okay. But I'm a little foodie.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
But yeah, I like sushi. Do you have a good
spot that you like to go to?
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Oh yeah, I can tell you. Oh my god, wait
where do you live? Sorry, we'll edit this out.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
I live in North Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Oh oh my god. Wait, I just went to the
best place. It's on Kuwanga and oh my god, it's
right near you. I'll slide into your DMS later and
tell you it's it's okay t mokey to Liam, it's
(42:43):
this chef and he has places like you know, downtown,
he has ones on Satel. This is like his fourth incarnation,
I think, but it is incredible.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Talking about I don't know what it's called, but like,
I like, now, is that worth like kind of near?
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Where that in and out?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Oh? Sushi mochi? Yes, okay, I'm writing that down.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Oh my god, you have to go.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
I'm going to go.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
I'll go with you. As we discussed this, this play
mu show, we're going to do cool. It's really good,
like good and you don't have to get all the
like stuff in the roles and stuff and all that
like whatever. It's like fresh and they it's incredible. Sorry,
I get very excited. So do you like what other
(43:42):
foods you like? Italian?
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah? I love Italian? Sorry?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
What's your favorite words in your mouth? Sorry? I'm telling
you what I like. Well, I.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Love everything, like genuinely, like I love everything truly. I
love tie. Let's see Chinese food is probably my favorite.
Like I just I love Chinese food. I also love
like like I don't know no where is that.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
It's uh maybe West Hills, like deep maybe near north Ridge, Omos.
It's like okay, Asian fusion, but it's like it's really good.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Okay. Oh. I also love Greek food.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I love I love Greek food.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
I love Greek food, and I love and I love
soul food as well in barbecue. So like everything I like,
I like everything. There's not really like a food where
I'm like, I don't really like that kind of like
we do cook. I do cook, just not a lot.
Like I I can cook, I just don't really have
(44:53):
time to cook, so I don't really cook that much suck.
So yeah, it's also that. But it's like when people like,
can you cook, I'm like, yes, I can actually, And
when I cook, my friends like get excited because because
they like when I cook. But I just don't do
it that often. I need to do it more. But
but yeah, I love to cook. I'm really a baker though,
(45:16):
Like I'm really good at baking.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Oh my daughter is a baker really yeah, so I'm
My thing is I'm of the belief that you can
do both well, but you're either truly a cook or
you're truly a baker.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Right, I'm truly I'm truly a baker.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
I'm one science related like one. It's a different part
of your brain.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Mm hmmm. I I mean people always say that, which
I understand, but also like, I just am really good
at following recipes I think.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
But I'm not really really because for me, I'm like okay, oh, okay, okay,
ye cook.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Then yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yeah. For me, I like I can follow the recipes
like really, well, so what's your favorite thing to make? Oh?
My favorite thing the bake. Probably cookies. Those are my favorites.
And then last year I got really into making cinnamon rules.
They're really yummy too. I learned how to make a
really good cinnamon roll.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, you'll have to share. My daughter Stella, who I
feel like you, guys, I have so much in common
personality wise and strength, and you have a lot in
common so far. She is a baker and she made
red velvet cinnamon rules this week, and we're really good.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
That sounds amazing, that sounds incredible.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Well, I want to thank you. I'm sorry. I want
to let you get to your salad. I'm like, very
concerned that your salad's gonna wilt. O. Hey, at least
I care.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
At least you care. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
I totally care.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Anyway, everyone should get your book Bottom of the Pyramid,
Memoir of Persevering, Dancing for Myself and Starring in my
own life. You are such an inspiration and it's on audiobook.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
And I'm actually narrating it too, as you should.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
You have the best voice. You say your voice over
work too.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
I love. I want want to get into that. I
want to get into more.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
You can't do everything. I have big plan. I have
big plans for you. You've inspired.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I appreciate it. I'm like, you're on the.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Team honestly, Like, yeah, I'm really good at doing it,
like inspiring and helping and being on other seams and
like can't do it for myself. Like that's right. I
shit the bed. But I'm learning. I'm learning. Your ear
actually inspired me today and you're teaching me and I
(48:03):
like this.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I love it. Well, thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Thank you. Wait can I slide into your DMS?
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Can you say that like friend to friend or slide
into DMS mean something like creepy.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
No, no, that's fine, that's totally fine.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Wait one of my what are the young people say?
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Yeah, that's totally fine, that's not creepy.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Okay, yeah about you guys. I'm gonna slide to her DMS.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
With Tusian work.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Okay, awesome, Thank you so much
Speaker 3 (48:40):
Of course, thank you so much.
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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