August 2, 2024 • 34 mins
Chris digs into all the stickiness that accompanies divorce with divorce coach, Tara Eisenhard.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the most dramatic podcast ever. And iHeartRadio podcast
Chris Harrison Lauren z mcomedy from the home office in Austin, Texas,
And today we're talking about divorce. Don't worry, it's not ours,
but could divorce be positive? Could it be a positive experience?
(00:21):
And I'll be honest, I did not know the phrase
that I'm going to say to you right now, divorce coach.
I had not heard of a divorce coach. Didn't know
what it was. I was reading an article and saw
the headlines, as many of us have. Former Bachelor lums
Brian Abassolo and Rachel Lindsay are going through a divorce.
Apparently it's pretty toxic, and Brian has urged us to
(00:44):
use a divorce coach. He's using one. He's been very
open about this, and I found it intriguing because Elsie, honestly,
I didn't know when I came to you and you said.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
No, I had never heard of a divorce coach.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
So we just wanted to explore what this is, and,
like we said, just kind of sought in passing headlines.
But as two divorce as we were curious did we
make a mistake?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Should not have the product of divorce. Yeah, you and
I have both been through them.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So we have used a divorce coach.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So we got in touch with Tara Eisenhardt and she
sounds like one of the best of the best. She
has been a divorce coach for well over a decade.
She studied divorce coaching. She is known as a pioneer
in the field. She is trained in mediation, Advanced mediation,
Family mediation. She's completed training in conflict coaching, collaborative law,
(01:33):
nonviolent communication, active parenting, and dissolving conflict from within, and
in twenty nineteen achieved the status of CDs Certified Divorce
Specialist through the National Association of Divorce Professionals. So we
are so excited to welcome this expert in divorce coaching
and to learn about what this is. We are going
to get into how much it costs, what exactly a
(01:54):
divorce coach does, and with one whether or not you
need one.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
She is a six degree black belt in divorce.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Please welcome Tara Eisenhard.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And Tara joins us. Now, first of all, thank you
for joining us. It's good to have you on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
As Lord and I were just talking about in the intro.
Until the recent headlines, we hadn't heard of a divorce coach,
which is ironic because my parents are divorced. Lauren and
I have both been through a divorce, and I think, man,
did we miss something? Like we should have found this
on a good gues I feel like this might have
been a daily and a lot of dollars short. But Tara,
(02:33):
let's start off by what is a divorce coach and
why do we need one?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
All right, so there are I want to start by
saying there are different kinds of divorce coaches with different backgrounds,
that we work differently. So the way that I work,
I like to tell people I'm here for the human
side of the process. I believe divorce is a human
process with a legal document attached to it. And so
while people are working on gaining legal document, they're dealing
(03:02):
with changing relationships. They're dealing with the need for self
care and setting boundaries and having difficult conversations. And That's
what I'm there for. And I'm a coach, not a therapist.
So that's also a really important distinction. Coaching is a
directional process, whereas therapy goes deep I don't unpack emotional baggage.
I don't make diagnoses or anything like that. I don't
(03:23):
deal with childhood trauma. My work is very much focused
on where are you right now? What are the challenges
you're dealing with. How can we help you to move
forward by taking some next steps or shifting mindset.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Not as much looking backwards as much as let's move forward,
and how can we do so in a healthy, positive
way exactly. I find it interesting that you made this
choice to this is your calling and became your passion,
because obviously it's something you went through your parents and
you got divorce. You've been broken up with and you've
(03:55):
broken up with people. But it's funny that you decided, Okay,
I'm going to go into this, I'm going to study divorce.
What was that light bulb moment where you're like that,
I want to now figure this out.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah. So when my parents got divorced back in the
previous millennium, it started off. I told you, they didn't
give me all the information upfront. I didn't know how
things were going to go. It was really scary. It
was nerve wracking. But ultimately what I learned from that
process is that it was a benefit to my family,
and my parents' relationship improved as a result of their divorce,
(04:29):
and so my life improved, My family got better, and
I grew up from there on thinking that divorce was
a solution to a problem. And then I got married,
and when I got divorced, we realized that it was
the solution to the problem that our marriage was and
I was really happy about that, but nobody was happy
for me. And that was the first time I realized
(04:51):
how toxic, yeah, how toxic our culture is around divorce.
Everybody was angry for me. They were sad for me.
They were telling me that I need to, you know,
take them to the cleaners, whatever. And I didn't feel
that way. So I started looking why does divorce make
people crazy? What is going on? Why do we look
at it this way? And I read every book that
(05:11):
I could find, and I listened to the experts that
I could find, and eventually I started a blog because
my friends and family got sick of listening to me
talk about divorce all the time. Years after I got divorced,
and then I just kind of it went from there.
Once I joined Twitter, that was when I found a
divorce coach, and I thought, oh my gosh, that's it.
(05:33):
That's exactly what I want to.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Do, Tara.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
My first instinct would it be a maybe top level
service level, but would it be a faiish analogy to say,
you're almost like a midwife helping someone through labor, Like
you're not the doctor, but you're a midwife.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yes. Actually, another thing that I like to say is
that divorce is a birth. So yes, absolutely midwife.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Oh love that a birth, a rebirth.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I was reading through your bi and one thing I
absolutely loved that you said in your bio. And I'll
just read a few quotes from here because they're all great,
but you say of yourself, she has been cheated, she
has been left, she has left, she has been broken,
and put herself back together. And what I love here
is that you say that you refuse to view divorce
(06:19):
as a problem. You prefer instead to see it as
a solution. And that's something that Chris and I say
a lot, Like we recently did a Q and A
on the podcast and someone asked us, how do you
know when it's time to get divorced? And as we
were answering that, like one of the things I said was.
I think it's really hard because I think overall people
view divorce as this failure, is this very negative thing,
and I think, you know, for me, I thought, look,
(06:42):
I had my marriage, I tried at it, I learned
a lot from it. Mistakes were made, but ultimately it
was better and more positive to move forward separately. And
so do you find that that's an issue people like
that you have to talk through people with or is
that part of your job to help them reframe divorce.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yes, that's a really big one for people. As a culture,
we tend to prize marriage and despise divorce, and so
people going through divorce they think they're a bad person
or a bad parent, they think that they're a bad partner,
and none of that is true. I really believe that,
you know, people change all the time. I'm not the
same person I was six minutes ago, let alone six
(07:22):
months ago, let alone six years ago. And relationships change too,
And that's okay, it's normal, it's healthy. Sometimes a marriage
runs its course and it's simply complete, and it's time
to move on and find something new, starting a new
chapter in a new way of relating.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I said in the same conversation, It's how I felt
in my divorce is when I could no longer affect change.
I couldn't bring happiness to my spouse, I couldn't bring
happiness to my own life. I couldn't affect that change.
Neither could she. So we amicably decided to move on.
And Laura and I are both proponents of a positive
you know, look, it can't always be amicable. We wish
(08:02):
it could. It can't, but you know, at least a
positive divorce, and that's what I like that you put
a positive spin on it. You are not the let's
get them screw them, It is trying to it sounds
like work within the parameters of what we got and
make the best of it.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
What are some of the things that you typically find
yourself advising people on, like overall the most common issues
that you see and how you kind of help people
reframe and better the situation that they're in as they're
working through a divorce.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Well, shame is a really big one, so we talked
about that a little bit. I talk a lot about
reframing this so that they can feel good about themselves,
so that they can feel good about their relationship, and
so that they can also help their children to feel
good too. This is a really big one that comes
up because a lot of times people don't necessarily think
about They think about the kids, but they don't think
(08:52):
about the kids in terms of children need to feel
good about where they came from, and they need to
know that their parents are good people, that they love them,
that they support them. And so I talk about that
as well, and how can we position that it's not
just for you, but also for the whole family, the
story of how this family is moving forward. And on
(09:14):
that note, I also talk to people a lot about
how to talk to their kids about the divorce, how
to talk to other people about their divorce, and how
to take care of themselves throughout that process. And when
I talk about self care, I say that it's about
three main things. Self care is about respecting yourself, protecting yourself,
and investing in yourself. And so I dive into each
(09:35):
of those components with people as they're navigating this process,
whether that means that they need to eat better food,
they need to set better boundaries, or they need to
look at their goals for the future.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Can we back up and kind of dive into the
kid thing. I'm very interested in that because as I
was going through my divorce, I had young kids, and
I know that people listening right now are going through
that similar situation. What are some keys that we can
take way? What are some things you could help us
with about communicating with our kids as we go through divorce.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
So it's really important that you consider the age and
stage of children. Kids who are younger have a the
You know, their cognitive function isn't there at adulthood yet,
and so they tend to be very self centered view
the world. According to them, these are where you want
to focus on. It's not your fault. There's nothing that
(10:29):
you did wrong, you couldn't have behaved better to keep
your parents together. That kind of message is really important
for younger children as they get older. They want to
know how does this impact me? What's going to happen next?
And really that's important at any stage. But it's not
your fault. Isn't quite so important for teenagers as it
(10:49):
is for younger kids, but everybody wants to know what
does this mean, What does this mean for me? What
does this mean for my family? What can I expect next?
And when is it going to happen? And so when
I coach people on talking to their children. I coach
them around that as well. Don't tell them we're going
to get divorced at some point in the future and
we don't know. Kids get really anxious. They want to
(11:11):
know what is happening. And that happened to me with
my parents too. They had the big discussion. I overheard
the fight. They said to me, yeah, we're probably going
to get divorced. We don't know, but we'll let you know.
And in the meantime, I came up with all kinds
of scenarios in my head. I determined what their divorce
needed to be. And when they told me what was happening,
and it wasn't what I had anticipated, it was very upsetting.
(11:34):
So it's really important to just be there for kids.
Let them know that you know, we're still your parents,
we're still a family, We're going to work through this together,
and this is exactly what you can expect moving forward.
I also tell people to have ongoing family meetings with
their kids too.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Kids need boundaries and facts and clarity versus well if
and when and with yeah God, and like.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You said, as soon as my kids realize they're okay, oh,
I can still go to my own school. I'm still
going to soccer practice, I'm still going to have a
sleepover at Timmy's. Christmas still exists, Like okay, I'm okay,
because their world still exists. So it was just reassuring
them of those things was really helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Absolutely one thing.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I because I didn't have kids, by the way, But
as you're just saying that, honey about like their soccer
practice and all that, is it important once when the
divorce is happening, to keep things as similar as they
were before, or is there do you advise on any
level like, Okay, this is kind of your new life now,
and here's what's maybe exciting about your new life.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You tell me what's the right way to handle that?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Well, a little bit of both. And I always tell
people that you can listen to all of the experts.
You can listen to the podcast, you can read all
the books. Nobody knows your family better than you. So
when I'm coaching parents, I always remind them of that
to bring their own expertise into this conversation. They know
their kids, they know what their kids' boundaries are, they
(13:12):
know what their kids' anxieties are, and as they're navigating
the space. It's very important for them to consider that
in the ways that they're talking to their children. So
some kids might be really excited about a new beginning
and they want to move to a new house, and
they want to decorate a new bedroom, and they want
to go to a new school and meet new friends.
And I can't imagine that, but I think there's some
(13:32):
kids out there that might feel that way. And in
that case, yeah, go ahead, hype it up and say, yeah,
there's going to be all of these new changes and
it's really exciting. And some kids will just turn it
into a ball of anxiety about any of those things.
And so for that case, it's really important to maintain routines,
maintain structure, look at the things that are staying constant
and steady, and still position those new changes as something
(13:56):
that is an opportunity as opposed to something more negative.
I like to, you know, encourage people to use words
like curious instead of nervous, really curious to see how
this is going to play out, what this is going
to look like, and you know, just be interested and
curious throughout the process.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I saw someone say recently that the biggest they it
was a doctor, and she was saying that she thinks
the biggest barrier people have to happiness is an inability
to change, like an inability to be flexible, because life
will change and it will keep coming at you. So
I love that. I want to get back a little
bit to the divorce coach. What is it? And like
(14:37):
Chris and I said, we were just as we saw
this in some headlines recently. We were both so blown
away that we didn't know divorce coaches existed.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
When do you.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Typically come into the picture, Like do you find that
you are advising people on whether to get divorced or not?
Or are you typically called when the decision has already
been made? How much do you advise on should you
get divorced versus Okay, you're getting divorced, let me help
you from here, all right?
Speaker 4 (15:02):
So I never tell people whether or not they should
get divorced. That is not right. Once again, that is
not my area of expertise. People know their marriage better
than I ever could. But I do come into the
process at all stages of the process, and typically when
I'm working with people in the very beginning, something that
I do recommend to them if they don't know, if
(15:24):
they're on the fence, you know, should I stay or
should I go? There's some resources out there. There are
discernment counselors who are specifically trained in helping couples have
that conversation and make that decision. There's a lot of
fact finding that people can do within themselves, within their marriage.
I always tell people's self awareness is the root of
your personal power. So when you know yourself, you know
(15:46):
your goals, your values, your feelings, your needs, you're able
to take the action that's going to help you to
get better, whether that means that you're staying and you're
having tough conversations or you know that it's time to go.
I also come in when people have made the decision
and they don't know what kind of process they want,
So I talk to people about the different processes. What is,
you know, mediation versus having separate attorneys versus sitting at
(16:09):
the kitchen table and doing it yourself. What are the
pros and cons of these kinds of things, What are
their appetites for these different processes and things like that.
And of course when they're in the thick of it
co parenting, talking to other people helping their kids through this.
Those are the big discussion items at that time, and
then also afterwards, because you know, you never stop being divorced,
(16:32):
and if you have children, you'll never stop being co parents.
So there's issues that linger long after. The ink is.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Driving a degree very much so. And you know, look,
if you can, if it's somewhat amicable and you can
make it through mediation, that's wonderful. It's a very nice
way to go through it. But things usually and things
always end because it's not good. You know, no one
says this marriage was too good. Let's get a divorce.
(16:59):
We're too happy. So let's deal with toxicity and someone
going through a really bad divorce. Because I know people
listening right now are either in that or have been
through that. That I'm sure is altogether different style of
coaching and different advice that you might have for people.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Absolutely, if the situation is more toxic, it becomes all
about the boundaries. And I do a lot of coaching
with people where I try to help them understand that
ideally their boundaries would lead to changed behavior from the
other person. But it's sort of like when you're up
against a fire breathing dragon and you have a shield.
(17:39):
The dragon's not going to stop breathing fire. That's just
what they do. So having good boundaries and knowing that
the boundaries are helping you even if they're not necessarily
impacting the other person, that mindset is incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
You've mentioned boundaries a couple of times. Can you give
us kind of specific examples of what that means in
our lives?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Yeah, boundaries mean different things in different situations. But a
lot of times when I'm talking about boundaries with xes,
I'm talking to people about what mode of communication is
most appropriated for them. Sometimes people can have a conversation
in public. Sometimes they can talk on the phone. Sometimes
they need to do everything in writing. Sometimes they need
to use a co parenting app. Sometimes it needs to
go through their lawyers. In conversations with people, it's important
(18:23):
to have boundaries to know that when things go off
the rails that you either need to bring it back
on track and follow that agenda, because every conversation when
you're dealing with an X, you need to have an agenda.
What is the purpose of this conversation, because otherwise you're
going to end up five years ago when somebody burned
the turkey at Thanksgiving and that doesn't help anybody. So
(18:43):
you've got to have good boundaries for that too, when
you're in those moments, bringing things back to where they
need to be, or even exiting those conversations if they
become unproductive.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
So true, I was just thinking that before you started talking.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
The first thing I thought was communication, because we have
so many methods through which we can communicate now, and
I can't even imagine what it's like to go through
a toxic breakup today because how hard must it be
to not pick up the phone and fire off the
texts and the calls and stalk them on Instagram and
all these things.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Well, and it's also top you know, when you have kids.
It's like, yeah, you know, if there's no kids involved,
the break can be a little better because you could
just not reply.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
But well it's cleaner, you can end. Yeah, at some point.
But Tara, how long have you been doing the divorce
coach thing?
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Oh goodness? I started. Actually I did my divorce coach
training in twenty ten, okay, so about fourteen years.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
So I was curious and that that is actually around
like when social media started. I was just curious, having
been someone who's you know, divorced, yourself and now doing
this a long time.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
How have you seen the rise of social media?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Because we're really sort of talking as a society now
about you know, we're a little over ten years into
living with social media. How much it's affected divorces happening
or the way divorces go down, just different trends, Like,
have you noticed or seen changes in what kind of
difference it makes. I'm almost curious if people are getting
divorced more because social media exists, and maybe it makes
(20:13):
it easier to cheat or for problems to happen.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I don't know, what do you think? What are you seeing?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Well, social media absolutely makes it easier for people to
cheat and for problems to happen. That's just kind of
a given. We're much more connected the way that we
interact with people, whether that is you know, our old
high school sweethearts that we're connecting with on social media,
or classmates from around the world that we're now in
an online classroom with. It's changed the way that we
(20:40):
meet with people. It's changed the way that we talk
to people and the way that we relate. So there's
definitely a new complication that's thrown in with that. Another
thing that I'm seeing with social media. On the good
side is that it has given people access to new
resources and new kinds of just people professionals that they
might not have otherwise I thought of. So divorce coaching
(21:02):
is a big one. Mediation is another one that I'm
seeing more and more people know that they're looking for
a mediator, and they're looking for a mediator because they
know what it is, not that somebody said that it's
a way to save money. So there's a lot of
learning opportunity about divorce that is coming from social media. However,
there's also a lot of really bad advice out there.
(21:24):
And I always tell people you can find a lot
of great support groups online, but you need to remember
that those people are not your attorney and they do
not know your situation.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I'm so interested also in how much the divorce coach
process you mentioned earlier. You know, they're not your attorney,
but you kind of maybe work with people who are
currently employing attorneys. I'm sure how much do you work,
Like do you speak to the attorney at all? Do
you just advise the person who's getting divorced? Do you
talk through some of the like say they're really mad
(21:55):
because the X ones you know, I don't know the
house in North Carolina are something. How much do you
weigh in on those fights that are happening and some
of the arguments that are coming up through the legal process.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
So as a private coach, I do not get in
any case. I do not touch the legal process with
a ten foot poll. I don't always tell people I
don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to
those things, don't listen to me. So as far as
what they're asking for, what they think that they want
to fight for, what their strategy might be, I don't
coach on that. What I do coach them on is
(22:29):
themselves their self awareness again going back to that self
awareness is the root of your personal power. So we
look at things like if they're thinking that they want
to get the house, then we look at things like, okay, well,
what's your budget and are you planning to stay in
this area? What are your goals for the future, what
kind of resources do you have, what's your tolerance for
cleaning a house that big and mowing that lawn and
(22:51):
those kinds of things. So I'm helping them to look
at those kinds of aspects of their process and themselves
so that they can make the decisions that are the
most aligned with them. Now, I do have a job
actually with a family law firm, and that's pretty awesome
because I'm the on staff client coach and I do
get to talk to the attorneys, so I understand a
(23:12):
little bit more about the legal process of my people
that I'm coaching. However, I still don't get involved in
that strategy.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I found that after I got divorce. There's a little
bit of judgment people have if they think you're starting
to date again too soon, And I wondered if you've
seen that, and also like, do you keep working with
people once the divorce is final on how they move
forward from there maybe dating again.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I do work with them on moving forward after the
divorce's final. I am not a dating coach again.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Not my wheelhouse, Sarah, you are so good at setting boundaries.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
That actually is my wheel house. That one is my wheelhouse.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
It is. But there are people out there who are
really great dating coaches who can help people set up
their profile and get the best picture in all of
them those things, and so part of my work with
people after divorce might be to say, hey, go find
one of these coaches if you're looking to get into
the dating pool and be serious about it. As far
as when people start to date after divorce, it really
(24:13):
is just a matter of personal opinion and personal readiness.
I always tell people that you want to make sure
that you're healed first. There's a great phrase out there
that floats around the internet, a great quote that says,
you know, if you don't heal what hurt you, you're
gonna bleed on people who didn't cut you. And that
(24:34):
happens a lot when we see people who are just
looking to fill the void that the divorce has left,
and so they're out there just trying to be with
somebody else. And another thing that I like to tell
people is that the relationship you have with yourself is
the one that is going to last for the rest
of your life. So it is much more important that
you invest in that relationship. Get comfortable with yourself, learn
(24:57):
to live with yourself, learn to live alone with yourself health,
and feel whole before you start to look for another person,
because another person can't complete.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You, especially when you know when people have gotten married
at such a young age. I did that, and you
don't even know who you are as an adult because
you've never been alone and so you don't know if
you're independent, if you are dependent, and so being comfortable
with yourself and living and it's so much healthy for
your kids too, Like to dive into that, make sure
everybody's good, and then then you can move on feeling
(25:27):
really good about who you are and where you are.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
It is.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
That's great advice. Like I remember feeling guilty Tara about
like when I was, you know, thinking about dating of like, Okay,
what if I'm seen out in public being you know,
somewhat of a public figure. You know, what does that represent?
How does that? And it was funny how how guilty
I felt about moving on?
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Well what other people think of you as none of
your business.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Where were you when I needed you twelve years ago?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I want to bring to you a quote, and I
know that you said, I'm interested in what you think
of this because I know you'd mentioned that you don't
necessarily help people decide that they're going to get a
divorce or you don't do that at all. But part
of the reason that we wanted to talk to you
was there's an alum from Chris's show from The Bachelor
Bachelorette World who had said he used a divorce coach,
(26:28):
and he said, quote, if you are thinking of separating,
find a divorce coach so you don't make a decision
by reaction but through clarity.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
What would you say to that?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Yes, absolutely, and you don't necessarily need a divorce coach.
Obviously there's a lot of us out there and we're
happy to help. But the important thing is to have
that clarity within yourself and that you're not making need
your emotional reactions, because if you're doing that, then you're
just you're not really responding to anything and thinking through.
(27:01):
I have all good divorce principles thing where I say that,
you know, geez for goals, the first O is for options,
or I'm sorry, the first O is for observation without judgment.
Then you need to look at your options and keep
your dignity intact. And it's really important to look at
those options to be able to think through things and say, Okay,
which one of my options is going to get me
closer to my goals? Not just that person hurt me.
(27:25):
I want to hurt them back. Look how hard I
can hit?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
And that really that surmises most divorces in our philosophy
of like try not to get hit and try to
hit them hard and make them pay for whatever you have,
you know made up in your mind, and so having
that mindset is huge, or having someone in your life
that can help you get to that mindset. It's so important.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
What pains me a lot.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
And we have several couples we know who have gotten
divorced or who are even in the process of getting divorced.
It pains me to see. And I'm not saying divorce
attorneys aren't important. You need them for many reasons, but
a lot of money get spent in the process of
getting divorced. Can a divorce coach help you in any
(28:10):
on some level in terms of alleviating some of that?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yes, absolutely so. A lot of times. One of the
things that happens that drives legal fees is that people
see divorce as a war, and they you know, they
draw their their battle lines, they collect their allies, they
hire their general to strategize their battle, and that's their attorney,
(28:36):
and then they go to that person with everything and
they say, here's what's happening now, what should I do?
Where sometimes people are just lonely and they want to
talk to their attorney and they know that this person
is on my side. This person I know without a
doubt this person is on my side because I'm paying
and so I want to tell them everything, and I
feel like we have a really good rapport. And so
(28:57):
those kinds of things can happen where people are just
telling their attorney everything. They're giving their attorney information that
doesn't really have to do with the legal process. They're
just complaining about things that the attorney can't do anything about.
And so one of the things that I work with
people on is choosing and using their team players wisely.
To remember that your lawyer is not your therapist, Your
best friend is not your attorney, That random person on
(29:20):
the internet is not your financial advisor. Make sure that
you're working with the right people who are understanding and
aligned with your goals, and that you're using them to
the best of their ability and that will make the
best use of your money.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
That's huge.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yeah, Well, as I'm listening to you, I'm just thinking, gosh,
divorce is such a big thing, right. It's even if
we're not viewing it negatively, it's still monumental. It's one
of the most defining experiences that people will potentially go
through in their life, just like marriage. So it certainly
makes sense to choose your team wisely and have the
best people on your side. And on that note, I
(29:55):
don't know how much you want to answer, but well, how.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Much does a divorce coach cost?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
It depends. The answer is always it depends. So the
way that I work, I have a regular hourly rate.
I charge one hundred dollars an hour for people who
just want to have a call and go over whatever
the hot button issue is. Sometimes people want to talk
to me once a week. Sometimes I talk to them
once in the beginning, and then I hear from them
three months later and they're like, hey, all this crap
(30:21):
happened and I want to unpack it and you know,
decide what to do. So I have a lot of
people who just work with me. AM very good about
just meeting people where they are whatever they need, let's
just dive in, let's talk about the challenges, and let's
find a way through it. I also have online courses
that have different price points. There's different coaches out there
that will do a lot of larger coaching packages. So
(30:43):
they will do you know, a six month program for
instance with people, and those can you know, cost a
few thousand dollars. If people want to book, you know,
a bunch of sessions with me, then we can negotiate
a lower price for a bundle. But there's just different
ways that people work and everybody's a little bit different.
That goes right back to choose and use your team
players wisely. So figure out how you want to work
(31:06):
with somebody, figure out what they do as far as
how they offer to help. Some divorce coaches do have
a legal background, so they can help on the strategy side.
All just depends.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, well, I think one thing I've learned a what
a divorce coach is, and that very useful when you're
in the middle of that tempest and it feels like
the waves are crashing on top of you. It is
so much easier said than done to hey, think clearly,
you know, and so to have somebody who can think
clearly with you and to walk you through those steps
because you know, you mentioned something very simple of it's
(31:37):
so easy to get into a divorce and say, screen
you I want the house, and it's nice to have
somebody who's like do you want the house? Like, really
do you want?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
When you said, do you think about do you want
to clean a house? That big?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I thought, Oh my gosh, these are no one thinks
of the logistics.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
They just want the house to spre you. I want
it because I don't want you to help.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah, it's like they think I want the house. They
don't think, well, what about actually owning that house? And
I think another big thing is just oftentimes when people
are going through divorce, it's the first time you've ever
done this right, and just like anything else, like with parenting,
we take parenting classes and it makes sense that going
on your first time going through something, it would really
(32:17):
help to have an expert helping you along the way.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Tara, thank you so much for joining us for shedding
such a bright light on divorce coaches.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Yes, and if people want to get in touch with you, Tara,
how can they?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
What's the best way?
Speaker 4 (32:32):
The best way to get in touch with me is
through my website. It's Tara eisenheart dot com. I'm also
on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook, I'm on x although I
don't really post there too much, but I'm there, and
I'm on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Thank you all right, sounds good. I have a great day.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Thank you you too. Bye.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So helpful like that, that is, It's funny you and
I both were, so I'll.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Be honest, I think I was a little skeptical of
it at first. Here's why sometimes I get a little skeptical.
Like you know how like everybody knows someone who became
a life coach.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I know she's not a therapist, and she was clear
about that, but it's a specific type of therapy.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And I think that's why I like it. It's not
just life coach.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
It's I'm getting you through this specific process that has
a whole set of hurdles to overcome.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
And as somebody you know, because it divorce is nothing
if not emotional, because it's dealing with your emotions, and
so you are very emotional, very volatile. And that's on
a you know, a positive good divorce, you know, much
less a very toxic, bad one. So to have somebody
that could just say stop, I'm in your corner, but
let's talk about this and walk you through this, and
(33:41):
or things are going badly to hey, you need to
work on setting up these boundaries. And I'm going to
help you and and to know that this person wants
what's best for you at the end is a wonderful thing.
So yeah, I you know, we started this by saying,
you know, Brian Avisola is the one that introduced us
to the term divorce coach, and I have to say, Brian,
You're onto something. This is a very good idea.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Tara is available at Tara Eisenhard dot com and her
last name is E I S E N H A
r D dot com.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Thank you again to Tara and everybody. We will talk
to you next time.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Because divorce can be positive and we have a lot
more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Instagram at the most Dramatic pod ever and make sure
to write us a review and leave us five stars.
I'll talk to you next time.
This is the most dramatic podcast ever. And iHeartRadio podcast
Chris Harrison Lauren z mcomedy from the home office in Austin, Texas,
And today we're talking about divorce. Don't worry, it's not ours,
but could divorce be positive? Could it be a positive experience?
(00:21):
And I'll be honest, I did not know the phrase
that I'm going to say to you right now, divorce coach.
I had not heard of a divorce coach. Didn't know
what it was. I was reading an article and saw
the headlines, as many of us have. Former Bachelor lums
Brian Abassolo and Rachel Lindsay are going through a divorce.
Apparently it's pretty toxic, and Brian has urged us to
(00:44):
use a divorce coach. He's using one. He's been very
open about this, and I found it intriguing because Elsie, honestly,
I didn't know when I came to you and you said.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
No, I had never heard of a divorce coach.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
So we just wanted to explore what this is, and,
like we said, just kind of sought in passing headlines.
But as two divorce as we were curious did we
make a mistake?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Should not have the product of divorce. Yeah, you and
I have both been through them.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So we have used a divorce coach.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So we got in touch with Tara Eisenhardt and she
sounds like one of the best of the best. She
has been a divorce coach for well over a decade.
She studied divorce coaching. She is known as a pioneer
in the field. She is trained in mediation, Advanced mediation,
Family mediation. She's completed training in conflict coaching, collaborative law,
(01:33):
nonviolent communication, active parenting, and dissolving conflict from within, and
in twenty nineteen achieved the status of CDs Certified Divorce
Specialist through the National Association of Divorce Professionals. So we
are so excited to welcome this expert in divorce coaching
and to learn about what this is. We are going
to get into how much it costs, what exactly a
(01:54):
divorce coach does, and with one whether or not you
need one.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
She is a six degree black belt in divorce.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Please welcome Tara Eisenhard.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And Tara joins us. Now, first of all, thank you
for joining us. It's good to have you on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
As Lord and I were just talking about in the intro.
Until the recent headlines, we hadn't heard of a divorce coach,
which is ironic because my parents are divorced. Lauren and
I have both been through a divorce, and I think, man,
did we miss something? Like we should have found this
on a good gues I feel like this might have
been a daily and a lot of dollars short. But Tara,
(02:33):
let's start off by what is a divorce coach and
why do we need one?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
All right, so there are I want to start by
saying there are different kinds of divorce coaches with different backgrounds,
that we work differently. So the way that I work,
I like to tell people I'm here for the human
side of the process. I believe divorce is a human
process with a legal document attached to it. And so
while people are working on gaining legal document, they're dealing
(03:02):
with changing relationships. They're dealing with the need for self
care and setting boundaries and having difficult conversations. And That's
what I'm there for. And I'm a coach, not a therapist.
So that's also a really important distinction. Coaching is a
directional process, whereas therapy goes deep I don't unpack emotional baggage.
I don't make diagnoses or anything like that. I don't
(03:23):
deal with childhood trauma. My work is very much focused
on where are you right now? What are the challenges
you're dealing with. How can we help you to move
forward by taking some next steps or shifting mindset.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Not as much looking backwards as much as let's move forward,
and how can we do so in a healthy, positive
way exactly. I find it interesting that you made this
choice to this is your calling and became your passion,
because obviously it's something you went through your parents and
you got divorce. You've been broken up with and you've
(03:55):
broken up with people. But it's funny that you decided, Okay,
I'm going to go into this, I'm going to study divorce.
What was that light bulb moment where you're like that,
I want to now figure this out.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah. So when my parents got divorced back in the
previous millennium, it started off. I told you, they didn't
give me all the information upfront. I didn't know how
things were going to go. It was really scary. It
was nerve wracking. But ultimately what I learned from that
process is that it was a benefit to my family,
and my parents' relationship improved as a result of their divorce,
(04:29):
and so my life improved, My family got better, and
I grew up from there on thinking that divorce was
a solution to a problem. And then I got married,
and when I got divorced, we realized that it was
the solution to the problem that our marriage was and
I was really happy about that, but nobody was happy
for me. And that was the first time I realized
(04:51):
how toxic, yeah, how toxic our culture is around divorce.
Everybody was angry for me. They were sad for me.
They were telling me that I need to, you know,
take them to the cleaners, whatever. And I didn't feel
that way. So I started looking why does divorce make
people crazy? What is going on? Why do we look
at it this way? And I read every book that
(05:11):
I could find, and I listened to the experts that
I could find, and eventually I started a blog because
my friends and family got sick of listening to me
talk about divorce all the time. Years after I got divorced,
and then I just kind of it went from there.
Once I joined Twitter, that was when I found a
divorce coach, and I thought, oh my gosh, that's it.
(05:33):
That's exactly what I want to.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Do, Tara.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
My first instinct would it be a maybe top level
service level, but would it be a faiish analogy to say,
you're almost like a midwife helping someone through labor, Like
you're not the doctor, but you're a midwife.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yes. Actually, another thing that I like to say is
that divorce is a birth. So yes, absolutely midwife.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Oh love that a birth, a rebirth.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I was reading through your bi and one thing I
absolutely loved that you said in your bio. And I'll
just read a few quotes from here because they're all great,
but you say of yourself, she has been cheated, she
has been left, she has left, she has been broken,
and put herself back together. And what I love here
is that you say that you refuse to view divorce
(06:19):
as a problem. You prefer instead to see it as
a solution. And that's something that Chris and I say
a lot, Like we recently did a Q and A
on the podcast and someone asked us, how do you
know when it's time to get divorced? And as we
were answering that, like one of the things I said was.
I think it's really hard because I think overall people
view divorce as this failure, is this very negative thing,
and I think, you know, for me, I thought, look,
(06:42):
I had my marriage, I tried at it, I learned
a lot from it. Mistakes were made, but ultimately it
was better and more positive to move forward separately. And
so do you find that that's an issue people like
that you have to talk through people with or is
that part of your job to help them reframe divorce.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yes, that's a really big one for people. As a culture,
we tend to prize marriage and despise divorce, and so
people going through divorce they think they're a bad person
or a bad parent, they think that they're a bad partner,
and none of that is true. I really believe that,
you know, people change all the time. I'm not the
same person I was six minutes ago, let alone six
(07:22):
months ago, let alone six years ago. And relationships change too,
And that's okay, it's normal, it's healthy. Sometimes a marriage
runs its course and it's simply complete, and it's time
to move on and find something new, starting a new
chapter in a new way of relating.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I said in the same conversation, It's how I felt
in my divorce is when I could no longer affect change.
I couldn't bring happiness to my spouse, I couldn't bring
happiness to my own life. I couldn't affect that change.
Neither could she. So we amicably decided to move on.
And Laura and I are both proponents of a positive
you know, look, it can't always be amicable. We wish
(08:02):
it could. It can't, but you know, at least a
positive divorce, and that's what I like that you put
a positive spin on it. You are not the let's
get them screw them, It is trying to it sounds
like work within the parameters of what we got and
make the best of it.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
What are some of the things that you typically find
yourself advising people on, like overall the most common issues
that you see and how you kind of help people
reframe and better the situation that they're in as they're
working through a divorce.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Well, shame is a really big one, so we talked
about that a little bit. I talk a lot about
reframing this so that they can feel good about themselves,
so that they can feel good about their relationship, and
so that they can also help their children to feel
good too. This is a really big one that comes
up because a lot of times people don't necessarily think
about They think about the kids, but they don't think
(08:52):
about the kids in terms of children need to feel
good about where they came from, and they need to
know that their parents are good people, that they love them,
that they support them. And so I talk about that
as well, and how can we position that it's not
just for you, but also for the whole family, the
story of how this family is moving forward. And on
(09:14):
that note, I also talk to people a lot about
how to talk to their kids about the divorce, how
to talk to other people about their divorce, and how
to take care of themselves throughout that process. And when
I talk about self care, I say that it's about
three main things. Self care is about respecting yourself, protecting yourself,
and investing in yourself. And so I dive into each
(09:35):
of those components with people as they're navigating this process,
whether that means that they need to eat better food,
they need to set better boundaries, or they need to
look at their goals for the future.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Can we back up and kind of dive into the
kid thing. I'm very interested in that because as I
was going through my divorce, I had young kids, and
I know that people listening right now are going through
that similar situation. What are some keys that we can
take way? What are some things you could help us
with about communicating with our kids as we go through divorce.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
So it's really important that you consider the age and
stage of children. Kids who are younger have a the
You know, their cognitive function isn't there at adulthood yet,
and so they tend to be very self centered view
the world. According to them, these are where you want
to focus on. It's not your fault. There's nothing that
(10:29):
you did wrong, you couldn't have behaved better to keep
your parents together. That kind of message is really important
for younger children as they get older. They want to
know how does this impact me? What's going to happen next?
And really that's important at any stage. But it's not
your fault. Isn't quite so important for teenagers as it
(10:49):
is for younger kids, but everybody wants to know what
does this mean, What does this mean for me? What
does this mean for my family? What can I expect next?
And when is it going to happen? And so when
I coach people on talking to their children. I coach
them around that as well. Don't tell them we're going
to get divorced at some point in the future and
we don't know. Kids get really anxious. They want to
(11:11):
know what is happening. And that happened to me with
my parents too. They had the big discussion. I overheard
the fight. They said to me, yeah, we're probably going
to get divorced. We don't know, but we'll let you know.
And in the meantime, I came up with all kinds
of scenarios in my head. I determined what their divorce
needed to be. And when they told me what was happening,
and it wasn't what I had anticipated, it was very upsetting.
(11:34):
So it's really important to just be there for kids.
Let them know that you know, we're still your parents,
we're still a family, We're going to work through this together,
and this is exactly what you can expect moving forward.
I also tell people to have ongoing family meetings with
their kids too.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Kids need boundaries and facts and clarity versus well if
and when and with yeah God, and like.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You said, as soon as my kids realize they're okay, oh,
I can still go to my own school. I'm still
going to soccer practice, I'm still going to have a
sleepover at Timmy's. Christmas still exists, Like okay, I'm okay,
because their world still exists. So it was just reassuring
them of those things was really helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Absolutely one thing.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I because I didn't have kids, by the way, But
as you're just saying that, honey about like their soccer
practice and all that, is it important once when the
divorce is happening, to keep things as similar as they
were before, or is there do you advise on any
level like, Okay, this is kind of your new life now,
and here's what's maybe exciting about your new life.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You tell me what's the right way to handle that?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Well, a little bit of both. And I always tell
people that you can listen to all of the experts.
You can listen to the podcast, you can read all
the books. Nobody knows your family better than you. So
when I'm coaching parents, I always remind them of that
to bring their own expertise into this conversation. They know
their kids, they know what their kids' boundaries are, they
(13:12):
know what their kids' anxieties are, and as they're navigating
the space. It's very important for them to consider that
in the ways that they're talking to their children. So
some kids might be really excited about a new beginning
and they want to move to a new house, and
they want to decorate a new bedroom, and they want
to go to a new school and meet new friends.
And I can't imagine that, but I think there's some
(13:32):
kids out there that might feel that way. And in
that case, yeah, go ahead, hype it up and say, yeah,
there's going to be all of these new changes and
it's really exciting. And some kids will just turn it
into a ball of anxiety about any of those things.
And so for that case, it's really important to maintain routines,
maintain structure, look at the things that are staying constant
and steady, and still position those new changes as something
(13:56):
that is an opportunity as opposed to something more negative.
I like to, you know, encourage people to use words
like curious instead of nervous, really curious to see how
this is going to play out, what this is going
to look like, and you know, just be interested and
curious throughout the process.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I saw someone say recently that the biggest they it
was a doctor, and she was saying that she thinks
the biggest barrier people have to happiness is an inability
to change, like an inability to be flexible, because life
will change and it will keep coming at you. So
I love that. I want to get back a little
bit to the divorce coach. What is it? And like
(14:37):
Chris and I said, we were just as we saw
this in some headlines recently. We were both so blown
away that we didn't know divorce coaches existed.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
When do you.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Typically come into the picture, Like do you find that
you are advising people on whether to get divorced or not?
Or are you typically called when the decision has already
been made? How much do you advise on should you
get divorced versus Okay, you're getting divorced, let me help
you from here, all right?
Speaker 4 (15:02):
So I never tell people whether or not they should
get divorced. That is not right. Once again, that is
not my area of expertise. People know their marriage better
than I ever could. But I do come into the
process at all stages of the process, and typically when
I'm working with people in the very beginning, something that
I do recommend to them if they don't know, if
(15:24):
they're on the fence, you know, should I stay or
should I go? There's some resources out there. There are
discernment counselors who are specifically trained in helping couples have
that conversation and make that decision. There's a lot of
fact finding that people can do within themselves, within their marriage.
I always tell people's self awareness is the root of
your personal power. So when you know yourself, you know
(15:46):
your goals, your values, your feelings, your needs, you're able
to take the action that's going to help you to
get better, whether that means that you're staying and you're
having tough conversations or you know that it's time to go.
I also come in when people have made the decision
and they don't know what kind of process they want,
So I talk to people about the different processes. What is,
you know, mediation versus having separate attorneys versus sitting at
(16:09):
the kitchen table and doing it yourself. What are the
pros and cons of these kinds of things, What are
their appetites for these different processes and things like that.
And of course when they're in the thick of it
co parenting, talking to other people helping their kids through this.
Those are the big discussion items at that time, and
then also afterwards, because you know, you never stop being divorced,
(16:32):
and if you have children, you'll never stop being co parents.
So there's issues that linger long after. The ink is.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Driving a degree very much so. And you know, look,
if you can, if it's somewhat amicable and you can
make it through mediation, that's wonderful. It's a very nice
way to go through it. But things usually and things
always end because it's not good. You know, no one
says this marriage was too good. Let's get a divorce.
(16:59):
We're too happy. So let's deal with toxicity and someone
going through a really bad divorce. Because I know people
listening right now are either in that or have been
through that. That I'm sure is altogether different style of
coaching and different advice that you might have for people.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Absolutely, if the situation is more toxic, it becomes all
about the boundaries. And I do a lot of coaching
with people where I try to help them understand that
ideally their boundaries would lead to changed behavior from the
other person. But it's sort of like when you're up
against a fire breathing dragon and you have a shield.
(17:39):
The dragon's not going to stop breathing fire. That's just
what they do. So having good boundaries and knowing that
the boundaries are helping you even if they're not necessarily
impacting the other person, that mindset is incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
You've mentioned boundaries a couple of times. Can you give
us kind of specific examples of what that means in
our lives?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Yeah, boundaries mean different things in different situations. But a
lot of times when I'm talking about boundaries with xes,
I'm talking to people about what mode of communication is
most appropriated for them. Sometimes people can have a conversation
in public. Sometimes they can talk on the phone. Sometimes
they need to do everything in writing. Sometimes they need
to use a co parenting app. Sometimes it needs to
go through their lawyers. In conversations with people, it's important
(18:23):
to have boundaries to know that when things go off
the rails that you either need to bring it back
on track and follow that agenda, because every conversation when
you're dealing with an X, you need to have an agenda.
What is the purpose of this conversation, because otherwise you're
going to end up five years ago when somebody burned
the turkey at Thanksgiving and that doesn't help anybody. So
(18:43):
you've got to have good boundaries for that too, when
you're in those moments, bringing things back to where they
need to be, or even exiting those conversations if they
become unproductive.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
So true, I was just thinking that before you started talking.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
The first thing I thought was communication, because we have
so many methods through which we can communicate now, and
I can't even imagine what it's like to go through
a toxic breakup today because how hard must it be
to not pick up the phone and fire off the
texts and the calls and stalk them on Instagram and
all these things.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Well, and it's also top you know, when you have kids.
It's like, yeah, you know, if there's no kids involved,
the break can be a little better because you could
just not reply.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
But well it's cleaner, you can end. Yeah, at some point.
But Tara, how long have you been doing the divorce
coach thing?
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Oh goodness? I started. Actually I did my divorce coach
training in twenty ten, okay, so about fourteen years.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
So I was curious and that that is actually around
like when social media started. I was just curious, having
been someone who's you know, divorced, yourself and now doing
this a long time.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
How have you seen the rise of social media?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Because we're really sort of talking as a society now
about you know, we're a little over ten years into
living with social media. How much it's affected divorces happening
or the way divorces go down, just different trends, Like,
have you noticed or seen changes in what kind of
difference it makes. I'm almost curious if people are getting
divorced more because social media exists, and maybe it makes
(20:13):
it easier to cheat or for problems to happen.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I don't know, what do you think? What are you seeing?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Well, social media absolutely makes it easier for people to
cheat and for problems to happen. That's just kind of
a given. We're much more connected the way that we
interact with people, whether that is you know, our old
high school sweethearts that we're connecting with on social media,
or classmates from around the world that we're now in
an online classroom with. It's changed the way that we
(20:40):
meet with people. It's changed the way that we talk
to people and the way that we relate. So there's
definitely a new complication that's thrown in with that. Another
thing that I'm seeing with social media. On the good
side is that it has given people access to new
resources and new kinds of just people professionals that they
might not have otherwise I thought of. So divorce coaching
(21:02):
is a big one. Mediation is another one that I'm
seeing more and more people know that they're looking for
a mediator, and they're looking for a mediator because they
know what it is, not that somebody said that it's
a way to save money. So there's a lot of
learning opportunity about divorce that is coming from social media. However,
there's also a lot of really bad advice out there.
(21:24):
And I always tell people you can find a lot
of great support groups online, but you need to remember
that those people are not your attorney and they do
not know your situation.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I'm so interested also in how much the divorce coach
process you mentioned earlier. You know, they're not your attorney,
but you kind of maybe work with people who are
currently employing attorneys. I'm sure how much do you work,
Like do you speak to the attorney at all? Do
you just advise the person who's getting divorced? Do you
talk through some of the like say they're really mad
(21:55):
because the X ones you know, I don't know the
house in North Carolina are something. How much do you
weigh in on those fights that are happening and some
of the arguments that are coming up through the legal process.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
So as a private coach, I do not get in
any case. I do not touch the legal process with
a ten foot poll. I don't always tell people I
don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to
those things, don't listen to me. So as far as
what they're asking for, what they think that they want
to fight for, what their strategy might be, I don't
coach on that. What I do coach them on is
(22:29):
themselves their self awareness again going back to that self
awareness is the root of your personal power. So we
look at things like if they're thinking that they want
to get the house, then we look at things like, okay, well,
what's your budget and are you planning to stay in
this area? What are your goals for the future, what
kind of resources do you have, what's your tolerance for
cleaning a house that big and mowing that lawn and
(22:51):
those kinds of things. So I'm helping them to look
at those kinds of aspects of their process and themselves
so that they can make the decisions that are the
most aligned with them. Now, I do have a job
actually with a family law firm, and that's pretty awesome
because I'm the on staff client coach and I do
get to talk to the attorneys, so I understand a
(23:12):
little bit more about the legal process of my people
that I'm coaching. However, I still don't get involved in
that strategy.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I found that after I got divorce. There's a little
bit of judgment people have if they think you're starting
to date again too soon, And I wondered if you've
seen that, and also like, do you keep working with
people once the divorce is final on how they move
forward from there maybe dating again.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I do work with them on moving forward after the
divorce's final. I am not a dating coach again.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Not my wheelhouse, Sarah, you are so good at setting boundaries.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
That actually is my wheel house. That one is my wheelhouse.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
It is. But there are people out there who are
really great dating coaches who can help people set up
their profile and get the best picture in all of
them those things, and so part of my work with
people after divorce might be to say, hey, go find
one of these coaches if you're looking to get into
the dating pool and be serious about it. As far
as when people start to date after divorce, it really
(24:13):
is just a matter of personal opinion and personal readiness.
I always tell people that you want to make sure
that you're healed first. There's a great phrase out there
that floats around the internet, a great quote that says,
you know, if you don't heal what hurt you, you're
gonna bleed on people who didn't cut you. And that
(24:34):
happens a lot when we see people who are just
looking to fill the void that the divorce has left,
and so they're out there just trying to be with
somebody else. And another thing that I like to tell
people is that the relationship you have with yourself is
the one that is going to last for the rest
of your life. So it is much more important that
you invest in that relationship. Get comfortable with yourself, learn
(24:57):
to live with yourself, learn to live alone with yourself health,
and feel whole before you start to look for another person,
because another person can't complete.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You, especially when you know when people have gotten married
at such a young age. I did that, and you
don't even know who you are as an adult because
you've never been alone and so you don't know if
you're independent, if you are dependent, and so being comfortable
with yourself and living and it's so much healthy for
your kids too, Like to dive into that, make sure
everybody's good, and then then you can move on feeling
(25:27):
really good about who you are and where you are.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
It is.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
That's great advice. Like I remember feeling guilty Tara about
like when I was, you know, thinking about dating of like, Okay,
what if I'm seen out in public being you know,
somewhat of a public figure. You know, what does that represent?
How does that? And it was funny how how guilty
I felt about moving on?
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Well what other people think of you as none of
your business.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Where were you when I needed you twelve years ago?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I want to bring to you a quote, and I
know that you said, I'm interested in what you think
of this because I know you'd mentioned that you don't
necessarily help people decide that they're going to get a
divorce or you don't do that at all. But part
of the reason that we wanted to talk to you
was there's an alum from Chris's show from The Bachelor
Bachelorette World who had said he used a divorce coach,
(26:28):
and he said, quote, if you are thinking of separating,
find a divorce coach so you don't make a decision
by reaction but through clarity.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
What would you say to that?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Yes, absolutely, and you don't necessarily need a divorce coach.
Obviously there's a lot of us out there and we're
happy to help. But the important thing is to have
that clarity within yourself and that you're not making need
your emotional reactions, because if you're doing that, then you're
just you're not really responding to anything and thinking through.
(27:01):
I have all good divorce principles thing where I say that,
you know, geez for goals, the first O is for options,
or I'm sorry, the first O is for observation without judgment.
Then you need to look at your options and keep
your dignity intact. And it's really important to look at
those options to be able to think through things and say, Okay,
which one of my options is going to get me
closer to my goals? Not just that person hurt me.
(27:25):
I want to hurt them back. Look how hard I
can hit?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
And that really that surmises most divorces in our philosophy
of like try not to get hit and try to
hit them hard and make them pay for whatever you have,
you know made up in your mind, and so having
that mindset is huge, or having someone in your life
that can help you get to that mindset. It's so important.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
What pains me a lot.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
And we have several couples we know who have gotten
divorced or who are even in the process of getting divorced.
It pains me to see. And I'm not saying divorce
attorneys aren't important. You need them for many reasons, but
a lot of money get spent in the process of
getting divorced. Can a divorce coach help you in any
(28:10):
on some level in terms of alleviating some of that?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yes, absolutely so. A lot of times. One of the
things that happens that drives legal fees is that people
see divorce as a war, and they you know, they
draw their their battle lines, they collect their allies, they
hire their general to strategize their battle, and that's their attorney,
(28:36):
and then they go to that person with everything and
they say, here's what's happening now, what should I do?
Where sometimes people are just lonely and they want to
talk to their attorney and they know that this person
is on my side. This person I know without a
doubt this person is on my side because I'm paying
and so I want to tell them everything, and I
feel like we have a really good rapport. And so
(28:57):
those kinds of things can happen where people are just
telling their attorney everything. They're giving their attorney information that
doesn't really have to do with the legal process. They're
just complaining about things that the attorney can't do anything about.
And so one of the things that I work with
people on is choosing and using their team players wisely.
To remember that your lawyer is not your therapist, Your
best friend is not your attorney, That random person on
(29:20):
the internet is not your financial advisor. Make sure that
you're working with the right people who are understanding and
aligned with your goals, and that you're using them to
the best of their ability and that will make the
best use of your money.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
That's huge.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yeah, Well, as I'm listening to you, I'm just thinking, gosh,
divorce is such a big thing, right. It's even if
we're not viewing it negatively, it's still monumental. It's one
of the most defining experiences that people will potentially go
through in their life, just like marriage. So it certainly
makes sense to choose your team wisely and have the
best people on your side. And on that note, I
(29:55):
don't know how much you want to answer, but well, how.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Much does a divorce coach cost?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
It depends. The answer is always it depends. So the
way that I work, I have a regular hourly rate.
I charge one hundred dollars an hour for people who
just want to have a call and go over whatever
the hot button issue is. Sometimes people want to talk
to me once a week. Sometimes I talk to them
once in the beginning, and then I hear from them
three months later and they're like, hey, all this crap
(30:21):
happened and I want to unpack it and you know,
decide what to do. So I have a lot of
people who just work with me. AM very good about
just meeting people where they are whatever they need, let's
just dive in, let's talk about the challenges, and let's
find a way through it. I also have online courses
that have different price points. There's different coaches out there
that will do a lot of larger coaching packages. So
(30:43):
they will do you know, a six month program for
instance with people, and those can you know, cost a
few thousand dollars. If people want to book, you know,
a bunch of sessions with me, then we can negotiate
a lower price for a bundle. But there's just different
ways that people work and everybody's a little bit different.
That goes right back to choose and use your team
players wisely. So figure out how you want to work
(31:06):
with somebody, figure out what they do as far as
how they offer to help. Some divorce coaches do have
a legal background, so they can help on the strategy side.
All just depends.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, well, I think one thing I've learned a what
a divorce coach is, and that very useful when you're
in the middle of that tempest and it feels like
the waves are crashing on top of you. It is
so much easier said than done to hey, think clearly,
you know, and so to have somebody who can think
clearly with you and to walk you through those steps
because you know, you mentioned something very simple of it's
(31:37):
so easy to get into a divorce and say, screen
you I want the house, and it's nice to have
somebody who's like do you want the house? Like, really
do you want?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
When you said, do you think about do you want
to clean a house? That big?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I thought, Oh my gosh, these are no one thinks
of the logistics.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
They just want the house to spre you. I want
it because I don't want you to help.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah, it's like they think I want the house. They
don't think, well, what about actually owning that house? And
I think another big thing is just oftentimes when people
are going through divorce, it's the first time you've ever
done this right, and just like anything else, like with parenting,
we take parenting classes and it makes sense that going
on your first time going through something, it would really
(32:17):
help to have an expert helping you along the way.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Tara, thank you so much for joining us for shedding
such a bright light on divorce coaches.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Yes, and if people want to get in touch with you, Tara,
how can they?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
What's the best way?
Speaker 4 (32:32):
The best way to get in touch with me is
through my website. It's Tara eisenheart dot com. I'm also
on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook, I'm on x although I
don't really post there too much, but I'm there, and
I'm on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Thank you all right, sounds good. I have a great day.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Thank you you too. Bye.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So helpful like that, that is, It's funny you and
I both were, so I'll.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Be honest, I think I was a little skeptical of
it at first. Here's why sometimes I get a little skeptical.
Like you know how like everybody knows someone who became
a life coach.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I know she's not a therapist, and she was clear
about that, but it's a specific type of therapy.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And I think that's why I like it. It's not
just life coach.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
It's I'm getting you through this specific process that has
a whole set of hurdles to overcome.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
And as somebody you know, because it divorce is nothing
if not emotional, because it's dealing with your emotions, and
so you are very emotional, very volatile. And that's on
a you know, a positive good divorce, you know, much
less a very toxic, bad one. So to have somebody
that could just say stop, I'm in your corner, but
let's talk about this and walk you through this, and
(33:41):
or things are going badly to hey, you need to
work on setting up these boundaries. And I'm going to
help you and and to know that this person wants
what's best for you at the end is a wonderful thing.
So yeah, I you know, we started this by saying,
you know, Brian Avisola is the one that introduced us
to the term divorce coach, and I have to say, Brian,
You're onto something. This is a very good idea.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Tara is available at Tara Eisenhard dot com and her
last name is E I S E N H A
r D dot com.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Thank you again to Tara and everybody. We will talk
to you next time.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Because divorce can be positive and we have a lot
more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Instagram at the most Dramatic pod ever and make sure
to write us a review and leave us five stars.
I'll talk to you next time.
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