June 27, 2025 • 26 mins
After a delayed start to the defense’s closing arguments, things heated up quickly when Diddy’s lead attorney Marc Agnifilo began addressing jurors. Pacing and animated, Angifilo essentially mocked the prosecution point by point saying Diddy is on trial for his private sex life, keeping the streets of America safe from boxes of astroglide.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, they're folks.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It is Friday, June twenty seventh, and the defense closing
argument is underway in the Ditty trial, and lead attorney
Mark Agnaphillo is on fire. Welcome everybody to this Ditty
update edition of Amy and t J. I get his
name right today, Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Well we at least knew what it was instead of
some Italian last name that begins with an A.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Okay, everybody's going to know how to say his name
after today. This dude is on fire. He is right
now Robes performing in stark contrasts to what it seemed
the prosecution did in their five hour closing yesterday.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
He is actually making fun in a lot of ways
of the prosecution's seven week long presentation. And you and
I both said this, if I were charged with a crime,
this is the man who I would want defending me,
because he's found a way to use common sense and
humor to appeal to the jurors. He comes off as
(01:04):
making a lot of logical sense and connecting the dots
that completely point away from the prosecution's argument.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
No charts, no graphics, no nothing. He made that point
when he started. He said, I'm not gonna do that
I'm not gonna put some more screens something for you
to read, because you know what they say, screens are
bad for yas. Anyway, Like he's speaking in that kind
of colloquial way that everybody can understand, and I say speak,
we're sitting here acting as if we can hear his audio.
You and I have been reading a live book.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I said, I've never actually been sitting in a room
and been so entertained. And that's exactly how I described it.
It says, if I'm turning a page and reading a
fascinating book that's happening in real time. That's the best
way I can describe what it's been like all morning
long for us as we have been following along. Note
by note, we've got multiple news outlets, court reporters, live
(02:00):
updates popping up, and we'll say, did you just see
this one? Did you just hear that one? Because Mark
Agniphilo is just coming off with one quip after the next,
and they're memorable and they are making a serious impression.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, and he warned it. I say he warned, but
he gave everybody a heads up. He said, I'm not
gonna use screens like we mentioned, but he said, I'm
going to be pacing a lot, And sure enough, they said,
he is essentially racing, moving back and forth right in
front of the jury box. His voice is going high,
so high pitch is cracking at times, like he is
just putting on. They are not bored today, No, in
(02:36):
the court.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Room, and they said, he's gesticulating. He's he's theatrical, I mean,
and so you can't take your eyes off of him.
And the one thing that's missing from the reporting that
you and I have noted, and we talked about this
a little bit yesterday and we looked up if there
was some law or some rule against court reporters describing
jurors reactions. And our reaction has been fairly animated here
(03:00):
hearing what Mark is saying, or at least reading what
Mark is saying. And I was desperate to know what
the juror's faces look like as he is cracking jokes,
because honestly, I know this is not a laughing matter.
We're talking about serious, heinous, disgusting allegations. And I have
found myself and I've watched you too, we are laughing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Oh yeah, because he's cracking jokes.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We got we're going to give you more of his
quotes in a second, but rose before he even got
to get started. This morning, here we go once again
there was another juror issue. Nothing too terrible, but it
seems once again the juror throwing off the schedule.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
There was a transit issue.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
That's how all they said.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
It was a transit issue. I mean, look, we live
in New York City. We understand it's tough. It's a
commuting every day, so you always have to give yourself, literally,
no matter where you're going, at least an extra thirty minutes,
and sometimes you'll be early, and sometimes you'll even still
be a little late. I mean, you cannot know what
you're commute. It's going to be day in and day out.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Okay, well, a transit issue, this is kind of a
big one. Thirty minutes. Court was delayed a full thirty
minutes today. Of all days I ropes, I have to
say it was there are more highly antictate. We've had
highly anticipated witnesses that delivered on testimony we were expecting,
but this maybe is the most highly anticipated day of
(04:24):
this trial, and sure enough we were left waiting even longer.
It was just weird that it happened on this day,
of all days.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I would say, in the entire time, we have been
watching this and many of the I say watching, I
always say this because it feels like we've been watching it,
monitoring what's going on in the courtroom. This has been
and I hate to use the word entertaining, but it
has been the most entertaining day that I can recall
of this entire trial.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, and well you'll understand why here in just a second.
But rope, we talked about Agnefillo. Yes, there were a
lot of theatrics, but he was much more than style.
He brought the substance, and he made clear at the
top it seemed the direction he was going to go. Said,
this is a trial of a lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Correct, This is not a criminal enterprise. This is not
some mob boss enterprise. He said, this is someone's lifestyle.
And he said, okay, so he liked threesomes. Okay, so
he likes some kinky stuff. Basically is what he was saying.
But that's not a crime. That's certainly not racketeering, and
it's not all of the other He was making light
(05:24):
and making fun of the charges that the government brought
against his client, saying get real. People come on basically
kind of saying, none of you actually are buying this right.
Because he liked some kinky sex, because he likes threesomes.
This is he's on trial for his lifestyle, not for
crimes that he committed.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It was as close as to a legal really, dude
as you can get.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, he said, you want to call it swingers, you
want to call it threesomes. That's what it is. That's
what the evidence shows. That was his quote.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
But we go through and again we're talking about, Yes,
I mean, what did he did behind closed doors? Fine,
but he's being charged for doing that stuff behind closed
doors the same way they prosecuted mobsters. And he made
that point about the racketeering. He called this, he said,
one of the most serious, complicated, comprehensive statutes on the books.
(06:17):
They applied it to personal use drugs and threesomes.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, that's just he kind of broke it one sentence.
He said, this is what we're doing here.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
We talked about this yesterday in both of our episodes.
With the prosecution's presentation they're closing arguments, it, in one word,
was complicated. We felt overwhelmed, and yes, that's why they
had graphs and charts and displays because it is so
confusing how they're trying to take specific instances and then
(06:47):
apply them to this very confusing but very serious charge
that in one case, and the racketeering charges could put
Diddy away for life. And so it was and dark
and serious and complicated. Might like my brain hurt trying
to see how they were doing. Right.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It's a legal and technical and I guess you're supposed
to take this all by the book, right, but we're
human beings and a lot of this stuff goes beyond
just what's.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
In a statute.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And he could this dude makes common sense if you're
just talking to him and listening to both of them.
I was like, yeah, of course, yeah, of course this
doesn't make any sense while we're here for this. He
likes him sex and now you're trying racketeering. What that's
just kind of common sense.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
So as a juror, you're sitting there and you kind
of said, he reminded you a little bit just in
terms of what we're reading and how he's been able
to simplify the issues and make it feel relatable in
a weird way. Kind of you said, he felt very
Johnny cochranesque to you.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Johnny was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
We all know that, but he was a performer in
the We saw him perform for months on television and
to this day, anybody right now, I Sayannie Conchran, Hey,
give me a quote of Johnny Conchrane. You can tell
me one.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
If it doesn't fit, you must quit.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
This is what this guy is doing. It feels like
in court today. He is speaking to you in colloquial,
common sensical terms you can relate to and go, ah,
that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And he also brought in the DEI thing. I thought
he had a couple current event moments where he related
what was going on, and he talked about di I.
He said, Sean Diddy Combs has been deiing since the
nineteen nineties. You know, he has employed all of these folks.
He and he said this, Shawn Combs has become something
(08:40):
that is very, very hard to be. He's a self made,
successful black entrepreneur. And that had to hit home for
some of the jurors.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, he wait, he's this rare thing and that why
does he end up here for that?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Because he likes threesomes and because he likes to swing,
so why.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Is this rarity in the black community being brought to
this type of scrutiny that seems kind of rare too.
Of these things, he found a way in just making
a factual statement to put something in your mind to
think about.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah. He also made a reference to the Jaws fiftieth
anniversary and like, you know the famous line from Jaws,
We're going to need another boat another sorry, we're gonna
need a bigger boat. He said something, We're gonna need
more crimes tape scene. It's a crime scene tape because
of what they're trying to piece together and pull together
to create this seemingly elaborate criminal enterprise. You know, He's like,
(09:39):
they're just trying to make more out of something that
actually isn't a crime.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
We should make the point. We were talking about this
yesterday after hearing the prosecution's case. We were like, wow, wow,
we were you know what that sounds right?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yep? To count two cases, Yep, that sounds right.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I mean, how are they going to get out of that?
Because like what they're saying. He actually probably did so like, wait,
how are they going to get out of this?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
We predicted that sure enough, we're going to hear defense
and sure enough, listening to him today, like wow that.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Oh wow, oh wow on.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Everything he said. Now we're talking about how entertaining he
was Robes, he flat out made fund yes of the
investigators in some of these searches, and how they are
getting bad people and things off the streets.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Oh my goodness. Yes, he went off about making America
safe from astroglide is what he basically said. He's like,
thank goodness we had those raids. Thank goodness that we
were able to have these federal prosecutors swoop in to
Ditty's house to find boxes of astroglide taken off the streets.
He said, who I feel better already artificial lubricant, Not
(10:42):
for me. The streets of America are safe from the astroglide.
It's hard not to chuckle when he puts.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
It like that. You can, you can, you can hear
sarcasm in words. That's remarkable. He actually gave them an
Ada boy said, way to go, Fellas. That's a quote.
He said, way to go Fellas. You guys just do you.
They took astroglide and baby oil and that is the
evidence in this case.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Man.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's effective.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It is so effective.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Because we're talking about some of the most serious charges.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
But we go through what they collected from this serious criminal.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Not guns right there, some of the house, but he's not.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Accused of There is no gun related violence other than
I believe with the Capricorn Clarkin since she said he
brought a gun with her, But there's no evidence of
him brandishing a gun or threatening someone with the gun.
So the guns don't really.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Terms of hit.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You got the FBI raiding a home in terms of
the threat that they just got off the street from
the search were boxes and boxes of astroglide, not drugs
to be distributed astroglide. And so he's the way I'm
saying it here is the way you can imagine them
hearing it, like oh.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Really, yeah, it was like a I think the worst
thing in terms of the drugs, was it a Gucci
fanny pack or a Gucci bag that had some drugs
in it? Yeah, even that was just comical because of
how what it was housed in, not even the fact
that there were so if there were just unbelievable amounts
of drugs, they would have pointed out there was this
amount of this, there was that amount of this, they
(12:19):
couldn't even do that, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
The other he saved a lot of his mocking for Capricorn. Clark,
who was an assistant, said she was okay. Two different
occasions she said she was kidnapped. One of them robes
was when he said she said did he came to
her house, said he had a gun, said you're coming
with me right now. And this is when they were
going to see kid Cutty. The other time, and this
is the one that attorney was mocking a lot when
(12:41):
she said she had to be subjected to a light
detector test for almost a week on a floor of
an abandoned building by a bodyguard or something, a goon
from Diddy and the attorney went.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
To town on that one.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
He certainly did. He said she was kidnapped and then
returned back to her home each night, and then returned
back with the kidnapper each day. And he kind of
made it, well, he didn't kind it. He made a
reference to the jurors. He said, kind of like you
all being forced to come back to court each day
and sit here and listen to this. Do any of
you feel kidnapped?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
That's effective?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Once again, what do you do with that? He also
made a joke about the time that Capricorn Clark you
just mentioned it and said she felt like she had
to go with Diddy to go confront kid Cuddy, that
she believed he had a gun. He said, she was
probably so excited that he came to her house she
would have gone to the moon with him.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
He didn't need to show a gun, it's his point,
like he didn't have he didn't need to threaten her.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
With anything, and there's no proof that he did have one.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, So it's those ways that we listened to all
that testimony and it sounded like a harrowing.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Scary night.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And I'm sure a lot of what they talked about
she testified to was true, but he simplified it in
such a way that makes you simply have to question
what you heard.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
And they this was a.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Good point on the Capricorn testimony. He told them during
his closing today, like the judge is going to instruct
you that if you know that a witness lied to
you once, that means you have the right to disregard
everything that came out of their mouth and testimony.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Wow. Wow, And so we knew obviously he was going
to Mark was going to have to address this domestic
violence issue, and he handled it so well, and it's
hard to that's hard to even have that come out
of my mouth. He handled the domestic violence issues so
well in the way that he said it. He said,
we own it. Did he did it? And if he
(14:44):
had been charged with it, you wouldn't be here because
he would have pled guilty. That also totally ring truth
for me and made you actually, you're going along with
him on his narrative because he says things where they
have to admit harsh truth. And yet then when they say,
but this didn't happen, Okay, that happened, and we'll admit
(15:05):
it freely. But just because he yes admits that he
beat Cassie, doesn't mean that any of these other charges
are true because he's not charged with that. And he
wanted that to be there, and he pointed out, we
are here because of money, and when he started laying
out why the jury's here, why his client is facing charges,
(15:30):
when he put it very plainly, did he is here
because of money? That was powerful.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
All right, well, folks, stay with us here when we
come back, we're gonna get more into that money argument
he was making and why the attorney called Cassie Ventura Fine.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Gangsta in court today.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
All right, folks, we're going to continue now discussion of
what has been the first half I guess of closing
arguments delivered by the lead attorney for the defense team,
Mark ag Agniphillo Agniphilo in one of these days. I'm
gonna get it right, mister Agnifilo. My apologies, but wrote
before we took a short break there we were talking
about and he was talking about Cassie Ventura Fine plenty
(16:22):
today and you know, part of she was an eight
and a half months pregnant woman. You're hearing terrible stories
about what she went through. We remember all the video.
But in describing her today, he made her sound like
a much different person.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
He certainly did he And again he did not deny
that she was beaten. He did not deny that his
client beat her. But he made this very direct point
that he said, Cassie right now is sitting somewhere in
the world with thirty million dollars. She filed that lawsuit,
(16:58):
which of course call the attention of the feds. Did
he paid her twenty million dollars the following day, And
I did not know this the Hotel Intercontinental where that
beating that we all saw on that surveillance video took place.
They paid her ten million dollars and so she was
(17:19):
She did not go to the police. She did not
ask that the police charge him with a crime. She
asked for money, and that is why did he is
sitting in a defendant chair today.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
No one is arguing that she earned was old, maybe
even old more than the twenty million that he gave her.
The point there in front of a jury in a
criminal case, though, is that she didn't even want to
bring charges.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
It's that this is maybe.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Something else to this that is not about criminal enterprise, right,
And that is the effective way he made the case.
He didn't just call her a bad person, but he
did make some suggestions during his closing that she was
being manipulative and play two guys.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
He said she was playing both Kid Cuttie and Sean
Ditty Combs, that she was not being truthful to either
one of them. And when he started going down that narrative,
he said she even had a burner phone to basically
keep two guys on the side without the other one
knowing about the other. And that's when he said Cassie's
keeping a gangster with the ooh, with the burner phone.
(18:27):
I mean he really went to town with her on
that one. I thought that was very interesting. And again
it is so relatable because you start looking at Cassie
differently when he puts it that way. She wasn't. Look
no one's arguing that she was a victim of domestic
violence and domestic abuse, and certainly, listening or at least
(18:49):
reading her testimony, it is gutting. It is horrific to
hear for any human what she underwent. But then he
made the point she eventually left Ditty because she wanted to.
That's not coercion, that's not being under someone's control under
a threat of us. She left freely when she wanted to.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
The suggestion being she could have done that at any point.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That's the legal arguments.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Look, they have to consider laws that they're going to
get all that stuff to go through. But just sitting
there as a human being on the jury that he's
appealing to common sense and emotion. He's appealing to them
in a different way outside of a legal book. And
it seems right now, at least on paper, we're not
in the room. But it sounds like he is putting
(19:38):
on a show.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Oh my goodness. Yeah. And speaking of money, he didn't
just point out Cassie. He pointed out Jane, who of
course was Ditty's other girlfriend who testified under that pseudonym,
who was such a big part of the prosecution's case.
He said, on Jane, I hope she's having a nice day,
but you know where she's doing it in a house
he's paying for.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
That was a part of a whole section where he
was talking about he has taken care of he is
what he does, He takes care of people, and that
was one of the things he pointed out, but he
pointed it out in a sarcastic way.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, but again one that reads true for all the jurors.
In fact, when you talked about him caring for people.
He started his closing arguments pointing out all of Ditty's
family who have been in the courtroom for most of
the trial, including his children. He said, these folks are
here because they love them and because he takes care
of his own. And he even talked about all the
(20:32):
folks who were his employees. He said, Okay, they didn't
maybe always like him, but they loved him. And they've
even testified to that fact. Even if they saw the
worst of him at times, they all still wanted to
be there. They all still wanted to be employed by him.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Well was it? He confessed though, that working for Ditty is.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Like drinking out of a fire huse. Yeah so yeah, so,
Like there's honest acknowledgments and admissions. He has a strong
personality that isn't for everyone, and certainly violent at times,
but he's not this mob boss evildoer that the prosecution
is trying to paint, according to the defense.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
The last thing here I want to point out that
he said which was very powerful and quietly effective, and
he used Cassie even to refine as his witness with
her own words. And Rosey went back to when the
video first came out on CNN, we all saw him
beat her in the hallway. She had an outpouring of
(21:35):
people reaching out to her with sympathy and support and
things like that, and she went online and she made
an Instagram boast I believe it was in which she
said domestic violence is the issue.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
And that is when Mark said, believe her, believe Cassie,
domestic violence is the issue, and that has been I
would say the foundation of the defense's argument that Diddy
isn't responsible and certainly isn't and can't be proved, that
(22:11):
all of these other he claims made up charges are
trumped up charges against him, have nothing to do with
the actual issue, which is domestic violence and that they've
admitted it and they want that to be what the
jurors see. Yes, and everything that they presented in terms
of the videos that has all pointed to that it's undeniable.
(22:32):
But it's nothing more than that is what the defense
is saying. And that was yeah, he said believe Cassie,
believe her at her own words.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
He was like, yeah, don't take our word for it.
Listen to her.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Man.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
That is fascinating. So he has been look and there
is a difference. It's hard for us to read the
prosecution for five hours talking about legal statutes and if
it's matches this time over here with this person over
here is a part of the enterprise but doesn't know.
But then they have so that that's tougher to read.
We have to admit this has been entertaining as hell
(23:06):
just to read, just to read. So have two totally
different approaches and styles. You can see.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
You gotta wonder as a juror, you know, if you're
presented with all of these overwhelming facts and flow charts
and then you get this larger than life theatrical attorney
speaking to you in common sense terms. Which one are
you gonna feel? Which one are you gonna remember? Which
(23:36):
one are you gonna take with you into the deliberation room.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You know, you make a good point, and you reminded
me of something I want to make sure I read
to our audience. Here here it is, and I don't know,
damn it. I want to give her credit. I think
it's from the Washington Post, the reporter. But to your
point about the attorney agna Fillo, and I'm just gonna
quote everything she says about what she saw in the
room in contrast and start contrast to the prosecutions, very
(24:01):
structured and neutral. Closing argument, Defense Attorney Mark Agniphillo has
been animated and theatrical, pacing in front of the jury box,
his voice raised and almost cracking at certain points as
he bellowed and mocked the government. In his final remarks,
a free, willing Agniphillo, who has referred periodically to his notepad,
has gone on long rifts. There are no visual aids
(24:24):
so far, something the lawyer highlighted to jurors, perhaps in
an attempt to appear more authentic. It's risky jurors could
just as easily read this performance as a erratic Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Yeah, you know, and we're not in the room, so
we don't know how he's coming off. It's reading very,
very relatable, but maybe he's coming off as inauthentic. Maybe
he's coming off as too much It's hard to know, Yeah, performative,
it's hard to know what these jurors are thinking. Are
they looking at him skeptically? Are they looking at him
(24:58):
as if maybe it's even like some last like almost
where he's being overly dramatic because he's afraid of what
the truth is. You know, he's trying to mask or
at least cover up or confuse them from the facts.
And they might be skeptical because you know, most people
aren't huge fans of attorneys in general. They're not necessarily
considered the most trustworthy of folks. So who knows where
(25:20):
these jurors, what lends they're looking through as they're watching
Mark and maybe the more just measured specific charts and
float charts and that maybe that appeals to them more.
It's hard to say.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
But the other side of that about him, is it
possible they're eating it up.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
It is possible, and that's why watching courtrooms is fascinating
because in each juror could respond to each attorney very differently.
It's hard to know collectively what they're thinking, and we
won't know until they get into that deliberation room. But
certainly we will continue to monitor the wild events in
that Lower Manhattan courtroom throughout the day. Today we will
(26:02):
have a part two, a bonus episode dropping when the
defense arrests its case. We're expecting a rebuttal from the prosecution,
and then the judge is expected to charge the jury,
give them their instructions for deliberation. So a lot more
to come in the Diddy trial, So stay with us.
We will be back this afternoon.
Hey, they're folks.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It is Friday, June twenty seventh, and the defense closing
argument is underway in the Ditty trial, and lead attorney
Mark Agnaphillo is on fire. Welcome everybody to this Ditty
update edition of Amy and t J. I get his
name right today, Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Well we at least knew what it was instead of
some Italian last name that begins with an A.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Okay, everybody's going to know how to say his name
after today. This dude is on fire. He is right
now Robes performing in stark contrasts to what it seemed
the prosecution did in their five hour closing yesterday.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
He is actually making fun in a lot of ways
of the prosecution's seven week long presentation. And you and
I both said this, if I were charged with a crime,
this is the man who I would want defending me,
because he's found a way to use common sense and
humor to appeal to the jurors. He comes off as
(01:04):
making a lot of logical sense and connecting the dots
that completely point away from the prosecution's argument.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
No charts, no graphics, no nothing. He made that point
when he started. He said, I'm not gonna do that
I'm not gonna put some more screens something for you
to read, because you know what they say, screens are
bad for yas. Anyway, Like he's speaking in that kind
of colloquial way that everybody can understand, and I say speak,
we're sitting here acting as if we can hear his audio.
You and I have been reading a live book.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I said, I've never actually been sitting in a room
and been so entertained. And that's exactly how I described it.
It says, if I'm turning a page and reading a
fascinating book that's happening in real time. That's the best
way I can describe what it's been like all morning
long for us as we have been following along. Note
by note, we've got multiple news outlets, court reporters, live
(02:00):
updates popping up, and we'll say, did you just see
this one? Did you just hear that one? Because Mark
Agniphilo is just coming off with one quip after the next,
and they're memorable and they are making a serious impression.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, and he warned it. I say he warned, but
he gave everybody a heads up. He said, I'm not
gonna use screens like we mentioned, but he said, I'm
going to be pacing a lot, And sure enough, they said,
he is essentially racing, moving back and forth right in
front of the jury box. His voice is going high,
so high pitch is cracking at times, like he is
just putting on. They are not bored today, No, in
(02:36):
the court.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Room, and they said, he's gesticulating. He's he's theatrical, I mean,
and so you can't take your eyes off of him.
And the one thing that's missing from the reporting that
you and I have noted, and we talked about this
a little bit yesterday and we looked up if there
was some law or some rule against court reporters describing
jurors reactions. And our reaction has been fairly animated here
(03:00):
hearing what Mark is saying, or at least reading what
Mark is saying. And I was desperate to know what
the juror's faces look like as he is cracking jokes,
because honestly, I know this is not a laughing matter.
We're talking about serious, heinous, disgusting allegations. And I have
found myself and I've watched you too, we are laughing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Oh yeah, because he's cracking jokes.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We got we're going to give you more of his
quotes in a second, but rose before he even got
to get started. This morning, here we go once again
there was another juror issue. Nothing too terrible, but it
seems once again the juror throwing off the schedule.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
There was a transit issue.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
That's how all they said.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
It was a transit issue. I mean, look, we live
in New York City. We understand it's tough. It's a
commuting every day, so you always have to give yourself, literally,
no matter where you're going, at least an extra thirty minutes,
and sometimes you'll be early, and sometimes you'll even still
be a little late. I mean, you cannot know what
you're commute. It's going to be day in and day out.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Okay, well, a transit issue, this is kind of a
big one. Thirty minutes. Court was delayed a full thirty
minutes today. Of all days I ropes, I have to
say it was there are more highly antictate. We've had
highly anticipated witnesses that delivered on testimony we were expecting,
but this maybe is the most highly anticipated day of
(04:24):
this trial, and sure enough we were left waiting even longer.
It was just weird that it happened on this day,
of all days.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I would say, in the entire time, we have been
watching this and many of the I say watching, I
always say this because it feels like we've been watching it,
monitoring what's going on in the courtroom. This has been
and I hate to use the word entertaining, but it
has been the most entertaining day that I can recall
of this entire trial.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, and well you'll understand why here in just a second.
But rope, we talked about Agnefillo. Yes, there were a
lot of theatrics, but he was much more than style.
He brought the substance, and he made clear at the
top it seemed the direction he was going to go. Said,
this is a trial of a lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Correct, This is not a criminal enterprise. This is not
some mob boss enterprise. He said, this is someone's lifestyle.
And he said, okay, so he liked threesomes. Okay, so
he likes some kinky stuff. Basically is what he was saying.
But that's not a crime. That's certainly not racketeering, and
it's not all of the other He was making light
(05:24):
and making fun of the charges that the government brought
against his client, saying get real. People come on basically
kind of saying, none of you actually are buying this right.
Because he liked some kinky sex, because he likes threesomes.
This is he's on trial for his lifestyle, not for
crimes that he committed.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It was as close as to a legal really, dude
as you can get.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, he said, you want to call it swingers, you
want to call it threesomes. That's what it is. That's
what the evidence shows. That was his quote.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
But we go through and again we're talking about, Yes,
I mean, what did he did behind closed doors? Fine,
but he's being charged for doing that stuff behind closed
doors the same way they prosecuted mobsters. And he made
that point about the racketeering. He called this, he said,
one of the most serious, complicated, comprehensive statutes on the books.
(06:17):
They applied it to personal use drugs and threesomes.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, that's just he kind of broke it one sentence.
He said, this is what we're doing here.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
We talked about this yesterday in both of our episodes.
With the prosecution's presentation they're closing arguments, it, in one word,
was complicated. We felt overwhelmed, and yes, that's why they
had graphs and charts and displays because it is so
confusing how they're trying to take specific instances and then
(06:47):
apply them to this very confusing but very serious charge
that in one case, and the racketeering charges could put
Diddy away for life. And so it was and dark
and serious and complicated. Might like my brain hurt trying
to see how they were doing. Right.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It's a legal and technical and I guess you're supposed
to take this all by the book, right, but we're
human beings and a lot of this stuff goes beyond
just what's.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
In a statute.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And he could this dude makes common sense if you're
just talking to him and listening to both of them.
I was like, yeah, of course, yeah, of course this
doesn't make any sense while we're here for this. He
likes him sex and now you're trying racketeering. What that's
just kind of common sense.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
So as a juror, you're sitting there and you kind
of said, he reminded you a little bit just in
terms of what we're reading and how he's been able
to simplify the issues and make it feel relatable in
a weird way. Kind of you said, he felt very
Johnny cochranesque to you.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Johnny was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
We all know that, but he was a performer in
the We saw him perform for months on television and
to this day, anybody right now, I Sayannie Conchran, Hey,
give me a quote of Johnny Conchrane. You can tell
me one.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
If it doesn't fit, you must quit.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
This is what this guy is doing. It feels like
in court today. He is speaking to you in colloquial,
common sensical terms you can relate to and go, ah,
that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And he also brought in the DEI thing. I thought
he had a couple current event moments where he related
what was going on, and he talked about di I.
He said, Sean Diddy Combs has been deiing since the
nineteen nineties. You know, he has employed all of these folks.
He and he said this, Shawn Combs has become something
(08:40):
that is very, very hard to be. He's a self made,
successful black entrepreneur. And that had to hit home for
some of the jurors.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, he wait, he's this rare thing and that why
does he end up here for that?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Because he likes threesomes and because he likes to swing,
so why.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Is this rarity in the black community being brought to
this type of scrutiny that seems kind of rare too.
Of these things, he found a way in just making
a factual statement to put something in your mind to
think about.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah. He also made a reference to the Jaws fiftieth
anniversary and like, you know the famous line from Jaws,
We're going to need another boat another sorry, we're gonna
need a bigger boat. He said something, We're gonna need
more crimes tape scene. It's a crime scene tape because
of what they're trying to piece together and pull together
to create this seemingly elaborate criminal enterprise. You know, He's like,
(09:39):
they're just trying to make more out of something that
actually isn't a crime.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
We should make the point. We were talking about this
yesterday after hearing the prosecution's case. We were like, wow, wow,
we were you know what that sounds right?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yep? To count two cases, Yep, that sounds right.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I mean, how are they going to get out of that?
Because like what they're saying. He actually probably did so like, wait,
how are they going to get out of this?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
We predicted that sure enough, we're going to hear defense
and sure enough, listening to him today, like wow that.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Oh wow, oh wow on.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Everything he said. Now we're talking about how entertaining he
was Robes, he flat out made fund yes of the
investigators in some of these searches, and how they are
getting bad people and things off the streets.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Oh my goodness. Yes, he went off about making America
safe from astroglide is what he basically said. He's like,
thank goodness we had those raids. Thank goodness that we
were able to have these federal prosecutors swoop in to
Ditty's house to find boxes of astroglide taken off the streets.
He said, who I feel better already artificial lubricant, Not
(10:42):
for me. The streets of America are safe from the astroglide.
It's hard not to chuckle when he puts.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
It like that. You can, you can, you can hear
sarcasm in words. That's remarkable. He actually gave them an
Ada boy said, way to go, Fellas. That's a quote.
He said, way to go Fellas. You guys just do you.
They took astroglide and baby oil and that is the
evidence in this case.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Man.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's effective.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It is so effective.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Because we're talking about some of the most serious charges.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
But we go through what they collected from this serious criminal.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Not guns right there, some of the house, but he's not.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Accused of There is no gun related violence other than
I believe with the Capricorn Clarkin since she said he
brought a gun with her, But there's no evidence of
him brandishing a gun or threatening someone with the gun.
So the guns don't really.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Terms of hit.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You got the FBI raiding a home in terms of
the threat that they just got off the street from
the search were boxes and boxes of astroglide, not drugs
to be distributed astroglide. And so he's the way I'm
saying it here is the way you can imagine them
hearing it, like oh.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Really, yeah, it was like a I think the worst
thing in terms of the drugs, was it a Gucci
fanny pack or a Gucci bag that had some drugs
in it? Yeah, even that was just comical because of
how what it was housed in, not even the fact
that there were so if there were just unbelievable amounts
of drugs, they would have pointed out there was this
amount of this, there was that amount of this, they
(12:19):
couldn't even do that, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
The other he saved a lot of his mocking for Capricorn. Clark,
who was an assistant, said she was okay. Two different
occasions she said she was kidnapped. One of them robes
was when he said she said did he came to
her house, said he had a gun, said you're coming
with me right now. And this is when they were
going to see kid Cutty. The other time, and this
is the one that attorney was mocking a lot when
(12:41):
she said she had to be subjected to a light
detector test for almost a week on a floor of
an abandoned building by a bodyguard or something, a goon
from Diddy and the attorney went.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
To town on that one.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
He certainly did. He said she was kidnapped and then
returned back to her home each night, and then returned
back with the kidnapper each day. And he kind of
made it, well, he didn't kind it. He made a
reference to the jurors. He said, kind of like you
all being forced to come back to court each day
and sit here and listen to this. Do any of
you feel kidnapped?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
That's effective?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Once again, what do you do with that? He also
made a joke about the time that Capricorn Clark you
just mentioned it and said she felt like she had
to go with Diddy to go confront kid Cuddy, that
she believed he had a gun. He said, she was
probably so excited that he came to her house she
would have gone to the moon with him.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
He didn't need to show a gun, it's his point,
like he didn't have he didn't need to threaten her.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
With anything, and there's no proof that he did have one.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, So it's those ways that we listened to all
that testimony and it sounded like a harrowing.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Scary night.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
And I'm sure a lot of what they talked about
she testified to was true, but he simplified it in
such a way that makes you simply have to question
what you heard.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
And they this was a.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Good point on the Capricorn testimony. He told them during
his closing today, like the judge is going to instruct
you that if you know that a witness lied to
you once, that means you have the right to disregard
everything that came out of their mouth and testimony.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Wow. Wow, And so we knew obviously he was going
to Mark was going to have to address this domestic
violence issue, and he handled it so well, and it's
hard to that's hard to even have that come out
of my mouth. He handled the domestic violence issues so
well in the way that he said it. He said,
we own it. Did he did it? And if he
(14:44):
had been charged with it, you wouldn't be here because
he would have pled guilty. That also totally ring truth
for me and made you actually, you're going along with
him on his narrative because he says things where they
have to admit harsh truth. And yet then when they say,
but this didn't happen, Okay, that happened, and we'll admit
(15:05):
it freely. But just because he yes admits that he
beat Cassie, doesn't mean that any of these other charges
are true because he's not charged with that. And he
wanted that to be there, and he pointed out, we
are here because of money, and when he started laying
out why the jury's here, why his client is facing charges,
(15:30):
when he put it very plainly, did he is here
because of money? That was powerful.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
All right, well, folks, stay with us here when we
come back, we're gonna get more into that money argument
he was making and why the attorney called Cassie Ventura Fine.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Gangsta in court today.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
All right, folks, we're going to continue now discussion of
what has been the first half I guess of closing
arguments delivered by the lead attorney for the defense team,
Mark ag Agniphillo Agniphilo in one of these days. I'm
gonna get it right, mister Agnifilo. My apologies, but wrote
before we took a short break there we were talking
about and he was talking about Cassie Ventura Fine plenty
(16:22):
today and you know, part of she was an eight
and a half months pregnant woman. You're hearing terrible stories
about what she went through. We remember all the video.
But in describing her today, he made her sound like
a much different person.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
He certainly did he And again he did not deny
that she was beaten. He did not deny that his
client beat her. But he made this very direct point
that he said, Cassie right now is sitting somewhere in
the world with thirty million dollars. She filed that lawsuit,
(16:58):
which of course call the attention of the feds. Did
he paid her twenty million dollars the following day, And
I did not know this the Hotel Intercontinental where that
beating that we all saw on that surveillance video took place.
They paid her ten million dollars and so she was
(17:19):
She did not go to the police. She did not
ask that the police charge him with a crime. She
asked for money, and that is why did he is
sitting in a defendant chair today.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
No one is arguing that she earned was old, maybe
even old more than the twenty million that he gave her.
The point there in front of a jury in a
criminal case, though, is that she didn't even want to
bring charges.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
It's that this is maybe.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Something else to this that is not about criminal enterprise, right,
And that is the effective way he made the case.
He didn't just call her a bad person, but he
did make some suggestions during his closing that she was
being manipulative and play two guys.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
He said she was playing both Kid Cuttie and Sean
Ditty Combs, that she was not being truthful to either
one of them. And when he started going down that narrative,
he said she even had a burner phone to basically
keep two guys on the side without the other one
knowing about the other. And that's when he said Cassie's
keeping a gangster with the ooh, with the burner phone.
(18:27):
I mean he really went to town with her on
that one. I thought that was very interesting. And again
it is so relatable because you start looking at Cassie
differently when he puts it that way. She wasn't. Look
no one's arguing that she was a victim of domestic
violence and domestic abuse, and certainly, listening or at least
(18:49):
reading her testimony, it is gutting. It is horrific to
hear for any human what she underwent. But then he
made the point she eventually left Ditty because she wanted to.
That's not coercion, that's not being under someone's control under
a threat of us. She left freely when she wanted to.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
The suggestion being she could have done that at any point.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That's the legal arguments.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Look, they have to consider laws that they're going to
get all that stuff to go through. But just sitting
there as a human being on the jury that he's
appealing to common sense and emotion. He's appealing to them
in a different way outside of a legal book. And
it seems right now, at least on paper, we're not
in the room. But it sounds like he is putting
(19:38):
on a show.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Oh my goodness. Yeah. And speaking of money, he didn't
just point out Cassie. He pointed out Jane, who of
course was Ditty's other girlfriend who testified under that pseudonym,
who was such a big part of the prosecution's case.
He said, on Jane, I hope she's having a nice day,
but you know where she's doing it in a house
he's paying for.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
That was a part of a whole section where he
was talking about he has taken care of he is
what he does, He takes care of people, and that
was one of the things he pointed out, but he
pointed it out in a sarcastic way.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah, but again one that reads true for all the jurors.
In fact, when you talked about him caring for people.
He started his closing arguments pointing out all of Ditty's
family who have been in the courtroom for most of
the trial, including his children. He said, these folks are
here because they love them and because he takes care
of his own. And he even talked about all the
(20:32):
folks who were his employees. He said, Okay, they didn't
maybe always like him, but they loved him. And they've
even testified to that fact. Even if they saw the
worst of him at times, they all still wanted to
be there. They all still wanted to be employed by him.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Well was it? He confessed though, that working for Ditty is.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Like drinking out of a fire huse. Yeah so yeah, so,
Like there's honest acknowledgments and admissions. He has a strong
personality that isn't for everyone, and certainly violent at times,
but he's not this mob boss evildoer that the prosecution
is trying to paint, according to the defense.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
The last thing here I want to point out that
he said which was very powerful and quietly effective, and
he used Cassie even to refine as his witness with
her own words. And Rosey went back to when the
video first came out on CNN, we all saw him
beat her in the hallway. She had an outpouring of
(21:35):
people reaching out to her with sympathy and support and
things like that, and she went online and she made
an Instagram boast I believe it was in which she
said domestic violence is the issue.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
And that is when Mark said, believe her, believe Cassie,
domestic violence is the issue, and that has been I
would say the foundation of the defense's argument that Diddy
isn't responsible and certainly isn't and can't be proved, that
(22:11):
all of these other he claims made up charges are
trumped up charges against him, have nothing to do with
the actual issue, which is domestic violence and that they've
admitted it and they want that to be what the
jurors see. Yes, and everything that they presented in terms
of the videos that has all pointed to that it's undeniable.
(22:32):
But it's nothing more than that is what the defense
is saying. And that was yeah, he said believe Cassie,
believe her at her own words.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
He was like, yeah, don't take our word for it.
Listen to her.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Man.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
That is fascinating. So he has been look and there
is a difference. It's hard for us to read the
prosecution for five hours talking about legal statutes and if
it's matches this time over here with this person over
here is a part of the enterprise but doesn't know.
But then they have so that that's tougher to read.
We have to admit this has been entertaining as hell
(23:06):
just to read, just to read. So have two totally
different approaches and styles. You can see.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
You gotta wonder as a juror, you know, if you're
presented with all of these overwhelming facts and flow charts
and then you get this larger than life theatrical attorney
speaking to you in common sense terms. Which one are
you gonna feel? Which one are you gonna remember? Which
(23:36):
one are you gonna take with you into the deliberation room.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You know, you make a good point, and you reminded
me of something I want to make sure I read
to our audience. Here here it is, and I don't know,
damn it. I want to give her credit. I think
it's from the Washington Post, the reporter. But to your
point about the attorney agna Fillo, and I'm just gonna
quote everything she says about what she saw in the
room in contrast and start contrast to the prosecutions, very
(24:01):
structured and neutral. Closing argument, Defense Attorney Mark Agniphillo has
been animated and theatrical, pacing in front of the jury box,
his voice raised and almost cracking at certain points as
he bellowed and mocked the government. In his final remarks,
a free, willing Agniphillo, who has referred periodically to his notepad,
has gone on long rifts. There are no visual aids
(24:24):
so far, something the lawyer highlighted to jurors, perhaps in
an attempt to appear more authentic. It's risky jurors could
just as easily read this performance as a erratic Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Yeah, you know, and we're not in the room, so
we don't know how he's coming off. It's reading very,
very relatable, but maybe he's coming off as inauthentic. Maybe
he's coming off as too much It's hard to know, Yeah, performative,
it's hard to know what these jurors are thinking. Are
they looking at him skeptically? Are they looking at him
(24:58):
as if maybe it's even like some last like almost
where he's being overly dramatic because he's afraid of what
the truth is. You know, he's trying to mask or
at least cover up or confuse them from the facts.
And they might be skeptical because you know, most people
aren't huge fans of attorneys in general. They're not necessarily
considered the most trustworthy of folks. So who knows where
(25:20):
these jurors, what lends they're looking through as they're watching
Mark and maybe the more just measured specific charts and
float charts and that maybe that appeals to them more.
It's hard to say.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
But the other side of that about him, is it
possible they're eating it up.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
It is possible, and that's why watching courtrooms is fascinating
because in each juror could respond to each attorney very differently.
It's hard to know collectively what they're thinking, and we
won't know until they get into that deliberation room. But
certainly we will continue to monitor the wild events in
that Lower Manhattan courtroom throughout the day. Today we will
(26:02):
have a part two, a bonus episode dropping when the
defense arrests its case. We're expecting a rebuttal from the prosecution,
and then the judge is expected to charge the jury,
give them their instructions for deliberation. So a lot more
to come in the Diddy trial, So stay with us.
We will be back this afternoon.
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Zima
Chris Harrison
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