VanderDUMP: The Scandal Analyzed

Are you as sucked in to this train wreck as Lauren Zima? Will she convince Chris Harrison to get on board?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the most dramatic podcast ever and I heart
radio podcast. Welcome to this breaking news edition of the
most dramatic podcast ever. I'm Chris Harrison, and this is
my breaking news voice, a voice I haven't had to
use in many years. But this is a story that

(00:21):
we're about to talk about that is so big, so scandalous.
It's taken me back to my breaking news days. And
this is the vander Pump Rules affair. Joining me is
entertainment reporter as well as Bravo a holic Lorenzima. I
love your breaking news voice. You know it's the Vanderpump

(00:42):
vander Dump everybody. We spoke to you a little bit
about the Vanderpump Rules saga that is sweeping the nation.
On Monday. We got into the characters, the real life
people from this reality show on Bravo, Tom Sandoval, arian
Amatox and Raquel Levis whose real name turns out to

(01:03):
be Rachel, and the fact that Tom and Raquel were
apparently having an affair behind the back end in the
home of Tom and Arianna and Roquel and Arianna are
very good friends. So we've been talking about it all
week and we just decided to do another episode of
the podcast, because this has overtaken everything. I mean, the

(01:26):
New York Times wrote about this. If you want to
talk drama nation, this is the nation in the drama.
This has been so I usually don't timestamp these things,
but it's Tuesday night. There's so much tea that Lord
and I have actually had to pour a cocktail to
get through this breaking news. What'd you go with? You

(01:48):
want the tequila? Tequila what I call a sent tequilia.
It's Saint Germain and tequila. I went with a nice
Napa cap. So we're going to enjoy a cocktail on
this Tuesday evening, and we're going to get through what
has become such a captivating story. And I guess we
start with that. Why there's been cheating scandals? There's all

(02:09):
kinds of cheating scandals all the time on TV and
off TV. Why has this one captured our imagination, our eyeballs.
It's really captivated this country. I think that's a question
for you, because you have twenty years of experience in
drama in reality TV. Why has this one become? And

(02:31):
by the way, vanderpumb Rules been on almost a decade, right,
and you know I've been watching it on and off
for the past ten years. I've skipped a couple of seasons,
watched a lot of them, but it's not a show that, like,
like my mom watches Real House, so I've che didn't
watch Vanderpum Rules. It's not a show that everybody had
this level of household name familiarity to it. But now

(02:51):
all that has changed. What do you think has made
the difference? I think there is Maybe it's post pandemic.
I don't know, but there has been a lack of
a social relevant show. And I was looking tonight there
are what ten stories on US magazine and People Magazine.

(03:14):
It's all Vader Pump Rules. Do you mean a gap
in a socially relevant reality show? Right? And I hate
to throw gasoline on what's already a big fire, but
I'll tell you when The Bachelor is in season, which
it is now five six, seven of the biggest headlines
would have been about the Bachelor. It's just not socially

(03:36):
relevant anymore. It's not filling that gap. It's not creating
storylines that anybody cares about. And when a story like
this comes along, we still have that insatiable appetite. You
still have that insatiable appetite. So when this story broke,
I think it's just a perfect storm of what we
used to count on to be good and to be

(03:59):
socially relevant, to be exciting, is not anymore. We still
want it, and now we got it, and it's Vanderpump rules.
I did have somebody text me today. They were like,
I used I used to see the Bachelor news stories
as the top on, you know, the number one news story,
and nobody's talking nobody, Well they're talking about this, and look,

(04:20):
I think everybody relates to a cheating scandal. But I,
like we've said, not everything blows up the way this has,
and it certainly has. So we are going to give
you all the latest information and we're going to analyze it.
So we'll go bit by bit here. We have tried
to keep on top of everything, and the latest where

(04:42):
we sit on Tuesday night is that the show has
started filming again. That Tom Sandoval and Raquel Levis Levis
I'm not sure. Also, you know what her real name is, Rachel,
So Tom and Rachel it Chell have filmed scenes together,
but according to a report on Entertainment Tonight, Tom didn't

(05:03):
like the way their seems were coming across. He thought
he was painted and too negative of a life, you think,
and he asked, or rather demanded, even that producers let
him refilm it, but they did not, and now he's
threatening to not film anymore. Hey, guys, I don't look
great in this cheating scandal. Is there any way we
can spend this or I look like a really good guy.

(05:24):
I don't look like a predator hitting on this twenty
eight year old woman cheating on her in my own bed.
We should note that Tom is forty years old. Tom's
forty rock Riquel's twenty. We're going to get into the
age difference, because the age difference isn't a big deal
as far as the relationship goes. That doesn't matter at all,

(05:44):
but we will talk about Raquel. I think Raquel's age matters.
It matters to her and where she is in all this.
And by the way, the latest report is they did
start filming, of course, but Riquel has allegedly left. Yes,
that's a People magazine report that she's gone home to
be with her family. This has been so overwhelming. The

(06:06):
report is that she has no friends on set, on
the cast, social media, It is all against her right now,
and you can imagine why. But it's just been so
much that she has left now. Has a camera crew
gone with her? Did they follow her home? Very possible.
The other thing is maybe a producer got to her
and said, hey, just every now and then check in

(06:28):
on your own phone. Just roll a camera every now
and then in check. By the way, I have to say,
I believe that it is overwhelming for her. I mean,
like we were just saying, this is sweeping the nation now,
and I want to be clear, we're discussing, we're having fun.
I don't want to come at them with cruelty, with hate,
with vitriol, because social media is very overwhelming. And yes,

(06:49):
they signed on to be on a reality show, but
the human brain can only take so much. I mean,
you and I certainly know about a world of people
coming after you well, and we were talking just at
dinner moment ago that Again, this isn't to forgive anything,
and it doesn't make her the victim. But for Raquel
being so young, she jumped into a show that had already,

(07:13):
as you said, it'd been going for a decade. She
jumped in a few seasons ago she joined, but this
at her age would be a lot to be unloaded on.
I mean this, Yeah, she's had a little bit of
a taste of this reality show. Let's just get into it.
We're not we're defending Raquel a little bit. I am,
and I'll say this, I'll say why. I'm not defending

(07:34):
what she did. I am defending her as a person
only in that I think she's twenty seven, twenty eight
years old, Thomas forty, Arianna's in her late thirties. The
women Arianna is friends with on the show, the other
cast members are in their mid late thirties. And I
am not saying that anything that Raquel did here was okay,

(07:57):
But I do think when you're twenty seven, twenty eight,
I think she's missing some of the life perspective, the
relationship perspective that people ten years and more older than
her have. And I also think they've been on reality
TV longer, they're savvier, they're they're friends with like, I

(08:17):
just think Raquel's in over her head. I'm not saying
what she did was okay, but I don't. But I
worry about her mental It's a very fair assessment, very
fair thing to say that she's over her head and
all this, yes, and again it's not to forgive anything,
but I actually was glad to read that report tonight
that she's left and she's gone home to surround herself

(08:37):
with some people, because there was the reports of she
had a crisis management PR team. Do not get Lauren
and I started on crisis PR people as a big
waiste of money and how useless they are. The best
thing I've heard is that she fired them. I don't
know if she's hired another one or not. Sorry, that
just opened up a big wound for us and triggered

(08:58):
us the places. Why because the current media environment changes
so quickly and everything happens so quickly, Like a crisis
PR team is a thing of twenty years ago. It's
not a thing that matters anymore. Like there's always groundbreaking
new changes in the way things are being covered and
all that thing about this we're talking about, Oh, this

(09:19):
is the first time a show like vander Pump Rules
has like made national news in this way. These people,
they don't know how to handle it. Hey, maybe we'll
sneak a story into People magazine for you. It's like great, thanks,
but yeah, so they're useless. I'm glad she fired them.
But this is what she's going through, is getting advice

(09:40):
from crisis PR people agents, I'm sure, managers. I'm sure
it has been just a tidal wave of noise for her.
So I'm glad to hear that mentally health wise, she
is removing herself, gonna go home, surround herself with some
people she can trust and figure this thing out and
get some perspective. So what's unclear here is there were

(10:02):
different reports. Again, this is completely like, I don't know
the sources on this. These are just reports, but let's
bring it up for discussions sake, that the crisis PR
team advised her to break up with Tom, to say
she was the victim here that you know, she was
kind of under Tom's spell or you know, bamboozled by Tom,

(10:23):
and she was gonna have to break up with him. Look,
she knew it wasn't a situation where and I've heard
of this for real, that people find out later they're
sleeping with someone who's married because that person lied and
said they were divorced or lied and said they were
in an open relationship. Raquel was friends with Marianna. She
knew she was going to Tom's bands shows with Arianna

(10:48):
and cheering him on with her with her alleged friend
from the crowd, so she knew. So I am not
applauding her. I am not defending what she did, and
I don't think she's a victim here. I'm just saying
that I have empathy or worry about her being a
twenty seven, twenty eight year old because we all do
super dumb stuff. Then that once we have the perspective

(11:10):
of age, we look back on and regret. And I
don't know. Maybe it's because I'm the guy, maybe it's
because I'm an older guy. But I just look at
Tom and I think Tom's the problem here. You knew better, Bud.
Tom's forty. Tom was in a relationship of almost a
decade with Arianna. Tom has been on the show longer.
Tom is the problem and the excuse he laid out
of why he didn't tell Arianna okay, because this has

(11:33):
been a long time affair. This isn't a hey, we
just started to hang last summer. Been awhile And he
said about Arianna and why he didn't break up with her. Yes,
according to a report, Tom said that or Tom didn't
break up with Arianna yet because he was worried about

(11:55):
her mental health, so worried about her mental health that
he cheated on her with her friend. And and because
this is maybe my favorite part, because they had a
house together and he thought it would be complicated, and
you could maybe possibly believe that, BS, if it weren't
for how brazen they were. You posted a video from Halloween. Yes,

(12:21):
I did well. Raquel still has in her highlights on
her Instagram these videos from Halloween, where you, guys, this
is what I think. This really sick and twisted. I
think this is part of why it's blown up on
a nationwide scale because of these strange, gruesome little details.
On Halloween, Tom dressed up as Raquel. They are in

(12:47):
videos together Raquel and with Tom dressed up as her. Raquel,
Tom and Ariana we're all going to this same party.
They all went to this party and Tom thought it's
going to be cute if I dress up like the
girl I'm sleeping with. Yes, that is fed up in
front of my girlfriend is level fed up it is,
so that is a signal again, they and we had

(13:07):
already talked about this on the show this week where
they had the little lightning bolt matching necklaces. They did
these things that are next level ft up the Harry
Potter nerd in me and my friend Um who I
follow follow the Lightning Bolt. Yes, follow the account best
of Bravo if you want all the Bravo updates. I
love Maggie. She's great and she's really been on the

(13:28):
ground collecting all the Reddit news and all that and
just curating it. She said, like, what in the Harry
Potter is this about the lightning bowl necklaces? And I said,
it makes sense because you know who did the lightning bolt,
Scar Baltimart. No, boy, don't go, don't do it. Don't
do it lightning bolts. So that that to me, and
you're right, maybe that's what struck a chord with everybody

(13:50):
is this isn't your garden variety affair. It's a really dark,
sick just a whole things that they they've done together.
And I don't know if it's Tom or whatever, but yeah,
Tom dressed up as Raquel. That's just messed dress up
as Rachel and went and hung out with his girlfriend.
And then in this video, this highlight you're talking about,
there's like Raquel making a toast in front of Arianna

(14:17):
and Tom. It's just again, it's just so disgusting because
you know what's going on now that you look at
it through this lens, you just know how sick and
twisted it really is. And then there's then there's this video.
The whole way this thing got played out was there
at a concert, and we're not sure how she got
the phone, but Tom's phone ended up on the floor,

(14:38):
maybe it fell out during the concert. Whatever, she ends
up with the phone and sees this video. Yes, apparently
it's unclear the specifics, but Arianna allegedly saw a video
on Tom's phone, her boyfriend's phone, of Raquel pleasuring herself,
and so obviously pretty quickly she knew something was going

(15:01):
on there. So now there's a sex tape in all
this the new version of a sex tape. So apparently
allegedly this was a screen recorded FaceTime, a FaceTime screen
recorded by Tom. And now Raquel has apparently had a
lawyer send out like cease and assist to the whole
cast saying do not distribute this video. You can't exchange it,

(15:24):
it can't go public. The other because it was recorded
without her consent, and this videos out there now look
I believe by the way. I mean, people have cheated
on me before, and I have found the cheating on
their phones before. The first thing I did was texted
that evidence to myself because I'm like, I gotta have
this so I know because the person I was with,

(15:45):
I'm like, I know this person is a gas lighting narcissist,
and if I don't have the visual proof, they will
try to deny it or lie their way out of it.
I needed the proof from my own sanity. So if
Ariana texted that to herself, you have to I get it,
because he would have tried to deny it or whatever.
So she had to do that. But I also, look,

(16:06):
I don't think it's fair to Rockhell if that video
ends up, you know, posted online and that every that's
not fair to her either. Because that's so I get
the season desist. But you pointed out something interesting about
the season desist in the warning of it. Well, the
season desist is she obviously didn't comply, She didn't give
her consent to be recorded. That is what the loyal argument,

(16:28):
that's the legal argument. That's the only way they can
get that season desist is she says, look, I did
not consent to this video being taken. Tom did it
behind my back while I was doing my thing, and
he recorded it. And so if that's true, then why
are they still in good graces? Why are they still together?
Because allegedly after all of this, bottom line is when

(16:51):
Bravo started shooting, they were going to continue as if
Tom and now Raquel are together, kind of figure this
thing out going forward as a couple. And look, if
someone had just recorded me against my will and this
thing without asking, without asking, we're not still dating. Very
good point. They're finding you in a ditch, noted. So

(17:15):
do you think that she was just saying it was
without her consent? Well, I think they go to a
lawyer and they're like, how do we stop this? They're like,
the only way you stop this is say I didn't
consent to it, because that because this has already gone.
I promise you media outlets have this, TMZ, whoever it is,
trust me they have. If two or more people have this,

(17:38):
it's out in the industry. It's out in this world,
and these are reality stars, so now it's really out there.
So it's already out there at established places, whether it's
people or US Magazine, TMZ whatever they have it. Now,
it's just can the lawyers keep this under wraps? Will
it end up on Reddit? Will end up on one

(17:58):
of the dark web places? Unfortunately, it probably will. But
this lawyer apparently is doing his damn just to shut
it down, and good good for him, by the way. Truly,
I know I have to say, no matter what she
went through, I don't think it's fair of that video.
I don't deserve that. But so there's all these reports
about you know, what her PR strategy is going to
be that one you know, the one team that she's

(18:19):
maybe not working with anymore, said play the victim, break
up with him. Then maybe the PR strategy is that
they're together and that they're going to be like, we're
in love and this is real and get behind it
in that way and try to get people on their
side in that way. And I just like, what do
you think? Because I think the truth is probably somewhere
in the middle. Like if I were her, I'm trying

(18:40):
to put myself in her shoes, I would be sort
of questioning everything. I would be like, well, should I
break up with them? I mean, especially if he did
record that without her consent? Should I are we together?
Are we in love? Do? I? I mean it also
goes back to can you trust someone in a relationship

(19:00):
when they start with that relationship with you as a cheater? Yeah,
I mean that's a difficult question. I would just say
moreover a bigger umbrella for your question. You just ask,
because I think, yes, there are circumstances where we know
when affairs happen, look at Amy Robot, TJ. Holmes. But

(19:22):
I think what matters more is the foundation. The foundation
that this relationship was built on is not good. And
if I could give this girl advice, I would get
her alone. And I hope that this space she's taken
now by leaving the show and getting away, she will
look back at some of this stuff going on and
say this is not a good dude, this is a

(19:43):
bad situation. And I hope my dream is that all
of this will continue except now Arianna and somehow Raquel
will make up and it's everyone against Tom. That's what
you want. Yes, I'm team everybody except for Tom. And
Raquel did say in this statement, um, that was to

(20:07):
make a statement. Well, it was said, sorry allegedly in
the statement that was really released tonight that it said
that she left and went home. Was that she doesn't
know how to apologize. To Ariana, Oh, that's you're talking
about the People magazine articles saying sources saying sh she
just well, she apologetic, she has no idea how. And again,
to me, that goes back to, yeah, you're twenty seven,

(20:29):
you're twenty eight years old, and I know that's not
so young, and it's not an excuse, but I get it.
I get how she has found herself in this hole
and now it's not so cute. It's not so fun,
it's not so sexy, it's not sex timing each other.
It's not the cute little fun you know. Thunderbolt, Roquel,

(20:50):
here's your And I wish I could sit her down
and be like, get yourself out of this. If you're
with Tom again, get yourself out of this, because you
you're your biggest thing. Okay, you just brought up the
Amy Robot t J. Holmes thing. You and I both
know people who've there's Yeah, I'm thinking of one couple

(21:11):
who they are together and married now their relationship started
as each of them having affairs on their spouses. I
am not saying this is okay, but I treat every
relationship that I might talk about or hear about on
the nature of that specific relationship. And maybe somebody's in
a horribly unhappy marriage where there being mentally and emotionally abused.
Maybe they stick it out for the kids. Maybe they

(21:33):
got a cheat to state saying, and they finally get
out of it. I don't know. But in this situation,
Tom's biggest thing was was what what did Ariana? What
was he so unhappy with with Arianna? What was what
was she doing wrong? What was she doing to him? Nothing?
From anything we've heard, if he had some big smoking

(21:54):
gun on Arianna and how horrible she'd been to him,
I'm sure he'd be rolling it out. We'd be hearing
about it. Yeah, we got nothing. All we know his
The only argument that we have is why he didn't
tell her about the cheating, and it's because of her
mental health. I mean, come on, Roquel, look at this guy.
You're a bigger fan than I am. Clearly I'm gaining
I'm gaining on you. But obviously you are entrenched in this,

(22:17):
in this Bravo nation. So you've been watching Vanderpump rules.
From what I have read and understood in the last
several days. Tom loves this. Tom loves not maybe not this,
but I just mean the attention, maybe a little narcissistic.
These are the things I'm kind of gleaning off of
what I'm reading online. Is he that guy? That's that's

(22:37):
I can't pull myself away from this. I love this
too much. You mean just the attention and everyone talking
about him. I mean, he certainly loves attention. But you know,
I think when you're watching reality TV, you're kind of
like everybody on a reality show loves they're on a
reality show. And you know, I have to say, there's
a lot of talk right now about potentially cimates who

(23:00):
are no longer on the show, Stacey Schroeder, Jack's Brittany,
Kristen Dodi coming back to the show because they've been
firing up on social media saying they always knew this
about Tom. They called it before. What kind of guy
Tom was? He came across as the nice guy for
a while, but they always had his number. I have

(23:30):
a question, Yes, didn't you read something about other people
knowing about this as well, not just them? But like, okay,
let's get into that. But I do, but quickly, I
would love for these OG cast members to come back.
It reminds me of a superhero movie like where they're
like activate, yes, activate, and then like they're being there.

(23:54):
I just see this thing where like they flip a
switch and like Stas and all these like classics get
up and they're like, yeah, we must go back. It's
like how Michael Keaton's coming back as Batman, like THEE
the old Batman's and the OG all the Spider Man's
are coming together and the multi scared, be very scared. Well,
I would love and for the fans out there, they know.

(24:14):
The way that Vanderpump Rules started, the way the show
first premiered ten years ago, was that after an episode
of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, Lisa Vanderpump cast member
on Beverly Hills is in her restaurants, sir, and it
just transitioned. You were almost confused. You're almost like, did
I flip the channel? What just happened? Is this a commercial?
And it transitioned into the series premiere of Vanderpump Rules

(24:36):
from an episode of Real Houses of Beverly Hills. So
here's what I want to happen. OG cast members come
to the reunion. The Vanderpump Rules Reunion is taping in
two weeks. They come to the reunion. Jack's stas Kristen
and I should say Kristen dated Tom in the past
and Arianna dated Tom after, so Kristen has a lot
to say. They come to the reunion, they say everything.

(25:00):
The reunion then transitions into a surprise bonus episode of
this season of vander Pump Rules that reveals that the
Ogs are back in the cast. Who hosts the ure,
Andy Cohenbay, he's just learning about everybody. He's just no.
I guess he does do all the Bravo. I know
he did all his stuff. I did, and I will

(25:20):
say that mucky bastard. That's a god. That's a good
seat to have a great and well, it's interesting pressure,
a lot of pressure, and he's really been leaning into
this like this has also been a bit groundbreaking, and
that like all the cast members are talking about it
live on social media as it's happening. Andy Cohen's been
weighing and we're really breaking the fourth wall because it's
all they're not like holding it for this like that.

(25:43):
So again, one thing we did wrong many times on
our show is that we tried to save it all,
and first of all, you're not going to save anything anymore.
There's no such thing as gets out. Social media has
ruined that the long one of the days where we
used to have big secret on a show and in
episode eight it would be revealed and you're like, oh

(26:04):
my god, no, you've heard about it eight months before.
So those days are gone. Instead of pretending like it's
not out there, lean into it. And I love what
Bravo is doing and as a network, as producers, so far,
I think they've handled this well. Because you and I
were talking about this, This will not air for quite

(26:26):
some time. What would be three four episodes into this
new season. I imagine the rewatches, the downloads right now
for the first few episodes are going to be huge.
And now all of us, including myself, we'll be watching
looking at this through this new lens. Every time we

(26:46):
see Tom, every time we see Arianna, every time we
see Raquel, is she wearing the necklace? Are they giving
the little touches? Are they looking at each other when
Arianna is not looking? I mean, all of this is
going to be huge and picked apart. Now. I wanted
to ask you. Some people DMed me on Instagram and said, oh,

(27:06):
but I think this is all fake. I think it's
just for ratings. And you know, because the show didn't
have good ratings last season, they faked this to give
a story. No, I don't think so any I mean
I will defend, you know, as bad as things are going,
you know on the Bachelor and Bachelorette, and yeah, it's
not socially relevant anymore. And no one's talking about it.

(27:29):
There's no magic bullet. It's not like you can say,
you know what we should do. We should do another
Culton fence jump, we should do another Ari swap and
Jason Mesnick, you know something electric, you can't really produce that.
It comes off canned, It comes off produced. People are
too savvy. Now, people are smart. People that are watching Bravo,

(27:52):
people that watch our show. They are very in tune
now and again social media. These people are going to
leave the show and they would they would tell you
that it's fake. And so look, did Bravo produce this? No? Now,
how they produce it from here on out, how they
handle it is the genius. This affair was. I hate

(28:14):
to say it, but as a sick producer, Manna from
Heaven for these producers, they are licking their chops. But
now how they treat this and how they handle it
when they, like you said, bringing their former cast members,
coming up with creative, good ideas of how now to
I hate to say exploited, but well exploited. Yeah, but

(28:35):
use this and to produce it. Well, this is where
the producing will come in. No, they didn't create a
fake affair, So what is the difference. You can produce
a moment but not create a moment. Yeah, I mean
people always asked me, okay, what was real? What was fake?
And all shows are different. There is a spectrum of
reality shows. The Kardashians and certain things like that. Duck

(28:58):
Dynasty is a great example. It's off the air, so
we can talk about that one hundred percent produced, one
hundred percent written, one hundred percent created. None of that
was just impromptu, just so happened. So there are shows
like that, and then there shows like vander Pump or
whatever that are probably pretty heavily produced. The moments are created.
And I always said, what we did a good job

(29:18):
of was creating the fishbowl environment. You create the environment.
Now what happens within that environment is what's real. So
look we knew that me and Bob love Lauren Ziema.
It's not an accident. We ended up on the two
on one date. God, we both love you. We hate
each other. Not a shocker. We ended up on that date. Yeah,

(29:40):
that's just good producing. And look what happens on that
date and how you react is what's real. And sure,
by the way, both Bachelor and vander Pump rolls people
have noticed like outfits being wrong in different points over
the years. Or I mean Tom Sandoval ask can we
refilm that. I'm sure they've reshot a scene or two
if they needed too for But I do believe this

(30:02):
is real. I believe this affair is real. Here's my
biggest clue. They didn't have an even on camera yet.
If it was produced like they they didn't have it.
It's been going on since last July. They didn't have
any even on camera yet. So I do think it
was It was real, and it was hidden because they're
pissed off. They missed a lot of Yes another running

(30:23):
with the cameras because get it. As good as this is,
we're Bravo and it's really good. They're kicking themselves because
this is not going to be on TV a lot
of this seventy percent of the affair. He's not on
TV by the way, if I mean, they won't do it,
and they don't need to because everyone will watch every episode.
But now I'm just like ready to jump to that moment, Like,
do you as a producer, do you say, let's scrap
a couple episodes and just get to this. Yeah, but

(30:44):
the anticipation's gonna be so good. We're all in you
you have the IV in the vein, because now I
do want to watch what's going on between these three. Okay,
let me ask you a question. We mentioned old cast
members coming back. Kristin Dody's going to come back, hopefully.
I've wanted to. Kristen was dating Tom for about six years. Actually,

(31:06):
Arianna and Tom there was a bit of crossover a
few years ago and maybe they started getting together before
Kristen and Tom had fully broken up. Now they didn't
have this friendship Kristen and Arianna. But here's a question.
Do you think once a cheater, always a cheater? Like
should Arianna have gone into the relationship with Tom thinking, oh,

(31:28):
he's a cheater. I don't believe in that. I don't
even I and again, if you had asked me when
I was twenty twenty seven years old, like Raquel, I
might have said that life is you know, life is
very black and white when you're younger. Well, obviously Raquel
didn't necessarily Well, I just mean like, when you're younger,
you have these strong, demonstrative statements and you live by them.
It's my way or the highway. The older you get,

(31:51):
the wiser you get, the more experienced you get, and
you realize stuff happens. Things happen, and so I don't
believe in the old adage once a cheater, always a cheater.
I think life can change. I think relationships are so different.
I mean, there is so many differences between my first
marriage and this relationship and our soon to be marriage.

(32:16):
So you can't compare those. You're when you're a decade
two decades older. You're a different human being. You're a
different man, you're a different woman completely. I think what's
frustrating for people about this situation is again Tom didn't
like Okay, again, I'm thinking, say, somebody has just this

(32:37):
was not a complicated enough situation to justify Tom's cheating, Like,
just break up with Arianna, Just break up with her,
the alleged report about always like we have a house,
so it's gonna be hard. Oh my gosh, what about
a view of kids like come on, man, just end it.
And if he loves reality TV, which he does, and
he loves to be the center of it, what better
than a great breakup story of I'm breaking up with

(32:59):
you and I'm gonna be with Raquel. This is what
leads me to something about the psychology and the pathology
of this whole thing with him. He loved some form
of this. Maybe he doesn't now because again, once everything
blows up, it's not so pretty anymore. But there was
a sick, twisted high that he was getting off of this,

(33:19):
of both of them being at his show, both of
them being at the Halloween party, her wearing the little
trinket that he's wearing, and only they know. But you
notice in all these little sick twisted moments, Arianna had
to be a part of it. He wanted the voyeurism.
It wasn't even the danger there was And again I

(33:40):
got to look more into the psychology of this, but
there's definitely a deep seated thing where he wanted Arianna
always in these moments where he had Raquel, Oh, I
had not thought about that. I gotta take a sip
of my tequila. That's a good point. They were. I mean,
the cheating happened allegedly in heart when Arianna was asleep

(34:01):
in the next room, like Roquel. It's unclear completely why
Raquel stayed at their house. Maybe they were all drinking
and so she slept in their guests. It happens people
from my show stayed here at the house. Yeah, no,
that's what I mean. I'm saying she wasn't, like to
be clear, she wasn't living with them or something, but
she stayed at their house for some reason. And I'm
sure it happened more than that, but she she was
asleep in the next room. Asleep in the next room.

(34:24):
You're right again, there's there's something there when you consider
the concert, the Halloween, there's so many little stories that
have gotten out, and Arianna was a part of them all.
And that's just what is messed up. Right, where's the guilt?
As we talked about on Monday, his statement didn't say
I hope he releases another statement, but that first one
didn't have an apology to Arianna. Where's the guilt? Where

(34:46):
is the Yeah. So, now we had mentioned that other
people were involved in this, So let's talk about the
report that Tom and Raquel reportedly spent Christmas in Saint Louis,
where Tom is from, with his family. What so the

(35:11):
family again, you know, there's former cast members that kind
of had an inkling of this, but there's family that
knew about this. They they've spent time together with families.
Some screenshots of surfaced of Raquel's sister allegedly posting a
photo of them and like making kind of an if
you know, you know comment that quote so and so

(35:33):
should really be together? Like it was the hiding in
plain sight, the fact that the family was involved. Look,
it raises the question when do you you know? When
do you like And it's also become a question with
Tom's best friend, Tom Schwartz, confusingly both named Tom. But
if Tom Schwartz knew about this, he's also friends with Ariana,

(35:55):
Like does he When do you have an obligation or
a duty to out someone one who you love on
something they're doing wrong? I would venture to guess maybe
not everybody, but I don't I bet I'm not off
by saying ninety percent of the people listening to this
have either been cheated on or half cheated. You're in
one of those two camps, maybe both, Oh for sure,

(36:16):
maybe many have done probably one hundred. If you've gone
through this life unscathed, the nearer a grown adult and
you haven't been cheated on or have cheated God bless you. Congratulations.
But what you're saying about the obligation is very interesting
because it depends on who's camp you're in. So let's
say it's Raquel's family. My own personal stance on this

(36:39):
is I appreciate those that maybe they're not going to
run to Arianna. Maybe that's a step too far, but
maybe they would take a stance to Arianna and Tom.
Maybe they would go to Ariana and say, hey, I'm
not going to say anything, but you got to do something.
You know this isn't right. Oh you mean did Tom
and Raquel right? I'm sorry? Yeah? Did I get getting
everyone mixed up? Yes? To Raquel. Say you're in Riquel's

(37:01):
family and you're at Christmas and Tom shows up. You
go to your sister, your daughter, you're whatever, she is,
your friend and say, hey, babe, I love you, you're
my girl. I'm not going to bury you. I'm not
going to sell you out, but this has got to stop.
You're better than this. You need to be better than this.
Same thing with Tom and the other Tom, whoever his

(37:22):
friends or whoever his people that knew and at least
didn't say, hey, man, if you don't put a stop
to this, I will. You need to. This is sick.
I agree. It's all about not it's about drawing a line.
I'm saying I can't support this. I can't partake in this.
I can't be a part of it. The ideal that
you think, you know someone's going to write in and

(37:42):
be like I'm gonna go to Arianna, and I'm going
to tell you, by the way, that's a little too much.
That's not reality, right. I don't expect Tom's family to
go to Arianna. I actually think that would be I mean,
I don't know, I don't know how close she is
with them, but I don't think you welcome them in.
How do you like, Hey, welcome for Christmas? Guys, where's

(38:02):
the woman you live with and own a home with
that have been with for almost ten years? In lighter
dark meat? What would you like? Do you want? Do
you like marshmallows and your ste potato castroll Like what, yeah,
it's I have drawn that line in the sand with
friends before. I've I've said, look, I can't talk to
you about this part of your life anymore because it's

(38:24):
not healthy for you. It's not right. It's until you
and like I've had pauses and friendships before that. Then
they've come back months later once that person wasn't doing
that thing anymore. But that's why it's wild to me.
And again, what's if the sister did really post these
screenshots and photos. The fact that she was reveling in

(38:47):
it a little bit too is like did she love
the reality TV of it all? Did she love you? Know?
It's it's a tough call, but in all things being equal,
you would hope someone in their camps would have stood
up and said, hey, guys, you got to put a
stop to this. Speaking of putting a stop to this,

(39:16):
are there any other major headlines before we put a
pin in this tonight? Okay, I'm gonna throw one more
weird thing at you. Okay, I wouldn't, by the way,
well I want to sorry. Okay, two more things. One,
the ogs coming back. Some people are like they were
fired for a reason. Stacy Schroeder was in some controversy
herself a couple of years ago. My stance on this

(39:42):
has always been one I don't think punishment lasts forever.
So they've done the time for doing the crime, and
two problematic people are on reality television. Like, I'm not
saying it's okay. I'm not saying they should get away
with everything, and I do. I think there's a line
and that there should be punishment for offenses. But reality

(40:05):
TV is about I mean dramatic reality TV. Yeah, it
done well is about Yeah, it involves problematic. When our
show over the last twenty years was at its best,
when it was the greatest, what are you going to
talk about? It was those crazy moments. It was Yes,
there were some loving moments, but it was those crazy moments.
And as a producer with my producer had on with

(40:27):
what I love about the Ogs coming back is they're producible,
they want to come back. They're very producible, good at
being on TV. They're good at being on TV. They're
going to be so for Andy Cohen, they're essentially plants,
and he's going to have plants in there that they
will be ready to fire the questions that Andy can
ask places he doesn't want to go. I mean, Andy

(40:50):
doesn't shy away from anything, but he's not on the show, right,
He's not on the show, and they can go places
and they know things. So they are essentially producers on
the set that can really stir things up. All right,
So the last thing, I'm gonna give you the last twisted,
weird little thing. So we were talking about the family
condoniate or Tom Schwartz and all that. So there's also,

(41:13):
you know, so many interviews that are now being looked
at just like we're looking at these episodes because these
people went on press tours for the new season. I
talked about the interview where Roquel is with Sheena, another
cast member, and Roquel saying, oh, Arianna is my true friend.
She's welcomed me to the show. Tom Schwartz and Tom
Sandoval have done interviews together and Tom Schwartz is kind

(41:33):
of standing there. You know, we should note what was
going to be the storyline this season was Tom Schwartz
and Riquel allegedly hooking up. Oh gosh, it is now
thought that that was maybe a total red herring of
Tom Schwartz trying to cover the truth, which is that
his friend Tom Sandoval was hooking up with Riquel. Now
that's really that's messed up too. Chris is, Oh, my

(41:56):
mind is blown. His eyes just got so wide. I'm
just dropping this on your I mean, there's one thing
about covering for your boy and like, you know, bro code,
But come on, man, that's do you think that's what
do you think? That's juicy? That's good. That is so
all these interviews are being analyzed, right, So we're gonna

(42:16):
Monday morning quarterback this now and go back and watch.
That's again, That's why I'm glad they're not throwing this
on this right now. I want to look at all
of this through this lens, I knowing what I know. Yeah,
go back and now watch these future episodes that are
going to lead up to the cheating scandal. So the
last weird little thing I'm gonna leave you with is
a moment from an interview where roquell Is asked, well,

(42:37):
who did you get close with this season? First of all,
Raquel is like, oh, yeah, you know, this was supposed
to be this redemption season for her. She was going
to come into her own Oh gosh, and she says
that she's gotten close with like Sheena and Arianna and
Tom Sandoval. And she says, Tom Sandoval has really been

(42:59):
a good for me. He's really treated me like a
little sister. Yeah what, what's no words on that one?
Maybe bad, poor choice of words. I get what she
was probably trying to do to deflect all of this attention.

(43:21):
But that and that's why Tom Sandoval is the real
problem here for me. He is. And I'm not again,
I'm not saying Raquel's a victim and she knew what
she was doing was wrong. But Tom Sandoval is. He's
the real problem here for me. So this has been
a much needed episode. This has been drink in hand

(43:44):
the vander Dump, the most dramatic podcast. We have to
put a pin in it tonight because my wine, because
you've blown my mind so many times. My wineglass is empty. Sorry,
I love John the little sister. I need to run
to the wine celler get more cabernet. But just know
that I don't think this story is going anywhere, and
neither are we. We will keep you up to date

(44:06):
on everything that's going on with this vander Pump Rules affair.
We'll start bringing people on We will follow this because
it is captivating and it has captivated all of us. Yes,
and follow us because we're talking about it more. I'm
at Lauren Ziema, Chris is at Crispy Harrison Chris B. Harrison,
middle name Brian, and the podcast is at the Most

(44:27):
Dramatic pot Ever. Like subscribe and please leave a good
rating and cheers, beers cheers to Arianna. We love you, Arianna.
This has been a special breaking news edition of the
Most Dramatic Podcast Ever. We'll talk to you next time
because we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks
for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the Most Dramatic

(44:49):
Pod Ever and make sure to write us a review
and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.