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December 1, 2021 31 mins

Alex Boykins 

 

On every episode of her moving new podcast, Alex embarks on an emotional journey in an attempt to reconcile friends and family who have fallen out. We love the heartfelt look at the complexities of human relationships, the effort to bring closure and healing to both parties, and the emphasis on exploring friendships, why they end, and how those endings impact our lives.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to season two of the Next Great Podcast. My
Heart Radio and Tongle have once again teamed up to
bring you another round of amazing and unique voices. We're
excited to share these ten incredible podcasts with you and
need your help crowning the winner. Check out the pilots
and be sure to vote for your favorite at Next
Great podcast dot com. Today's entry is Mending Fences by

(00:30):
Alex Boygan's. On every episode of our moving new podcast,
Alex embarks on an emotional journey and an attempt to
reconcile friends and family who have fallen out. We love
the heartfelt look at the complexities of human relationships, the
effort to bring closure and healing to both parties, and
the emphasis on exploring friendships, why they end, and how
those endings impact our lives. Yeah. I'm Alex better known

(01:00):
as Black Mamba from Reno, Nevada, and you're listening to
the pilot of Mending Fences as part of the Next
Great Podcast competition from My Heart Radio and Tongle. Hey guys,
a girl Black Mamba here and welcome to the very
first episode of Mending Fences. That's right, folks, we gave
you teasers. We told you it was coming, and we

(01:21):
are here. We are in the studio, we are recording
which changed in lives. I have a very special co
host who I'm a big fan of, Elijah Harris. Hi, Elijah,
how are you hello? How's everyone doing. I'm really excited
that you decided to do this show. One of the
letters that we got in that we chose. We We
had a lot of submissions, but there was one in
particular that we got and I absolutely loved it, and

(01:44):
I thought this has got to be the kickoff. We
got the letter in a few weeks ago. I'm gonna
go ahead and read it on air right now. Dear
Black Mamba and Elijah. My name is Michelle. I'm a
twenty nine year old woman from Portland, Oregon, and I'm
writing in because I have a friendship that has ended,
but I don't know why. About two years ago, I
was supposed to go on a girl's trip to Brazil

(02:05):
with some of my best friends. My best friend of
the friend group, Katie, is the person I look forward
to spending most of my time with. She's funny, she's smart,
adventurous and loving. We've been friends since we were nine
years old. We do everything together. About three years ago
I got married. It really didn't change our relationship outside

(02:27):
of me gladly and knowingly needing to spend more time
with my husband. I own my own business where I
tutor her kids with distance learning. Due to this, I've
had the I've had to be extra careful. So I
told my girlfriends that unfortunately this year, I was not
going to be able to make the trip. Everyone, of
course seemed bummed, but totally got it, and they were

(02:48):
very supportive. Well, almost everybody, everyone except for Katie. Honey,
I'm gonna stop right here. So in the letter, she
says that Katie, after she sent the group chat and
said hey, I'm not gonna be able to make it,
get Katie, then sent a sub group chat to Top

(03:08):
eight like she like. She literally flamed her. She flamed her.
She flamed her. So first she sent out a group
message that didn't include me, asking the girls if they
thought it was fair that I backed out last minute
and didn't pay anything. So, hearing this from a mutual friend,
I reached back out in the group chat to offer
some cash. Everyone including her, said, don't worry about it.

(03:31):
I was confused, but just thought it was the typical
Katie being passive aggressive. I gave her some space and
waited patiently for her to tell me about her trip,
but that never happened. Every time I called she was busy.
She would respond to my text with one word answers,
but in the group chat her ask came alive crack
of jokes, sending gifts, but the moment I texted, text

(03:53):
her back crickets. I gave her some space and then
again when I heard nothing, I went so far as
to go by her home. I brought her some wine
and she acted as if she didn't want me in
her home. It was really awkward. I asked about her trip,
asked to see photos, and she just kept saying her
phone was about to die and she couldn't charge. So

(04:19):
now she's lying. I like she's at home and she's like, bitch,
can't find a charger. That's how you know she doesn't care,
because that was a lazy lie. She thought like whatever,
Like I like gratitude. She was like, I would love
to share you my photos, but I'm on two percent
and I've been like that for the last six months. Sorry. Girl,
that's a great that's a that is a very you

(04:39):
know what, You're right? That is a very lazy Lilijah,
she The letter continues, She then made up some lame
ass excuse about having a prior engagement and showed me
to the door. Honey, me, of all people, I have
been there for her from the beginning. I have always
been there for her. I feel like I'm not even angry.
I'm still confused about why she is angry. I've made

(05:03):
more space for her in my life than I have
my own husband, and she won't even try and listen
to me or think I'm worth a conversation. Why what
is well? Because I think what happens and correct me
if I'm married, you're not. But sometimes when you get

(05:28):
I felt it and I was like, oh, okay, so
let me school you as a married woman. Okay, there's
just a little bit more of the letter. Let me
finish on it, says. I am now sad and lonely
and confused. How did I not know this person? How
did I put so much time and energy into someone
that cut me out of their life so easily. Hopefully

(05:51):
you guys can help. We are all still friends on
Facebook and Instagram, but I can tell she has restricted
she has been restricted on all of accounts and blocked
on Snapchat even typing this is annoying. I hope you
all are doing good. Thanks again, sleepless important. That is hilarious.
I love that she said, howney, I am fully aware.
You know what. Let's call Michelle. Let's call Michelle up.
Let's get her on the line. Hello. Hi, is this Michelle? Hi? Michelle,

(06:27):
This is Black Mamba and Elijah from Mending Fences. How
are you hi? God? Is I'm good. I'm a little nervous.
Are you a little nervous? Don't be nervous. Elijah and
I are here for you. We're here to support you.
We got your letter. Wow, okay, so tell me the story.
Let's let's go. I'm getting on the ship with you.
Elijah and I are all all all hands on deck. Obviously,

(06:50):
you know I had to cancel the trip I wrote
in the letter, and it just seemed like it was
just like the beginning of the end with Katie and
I don't know why that was such a huge deal.
I paid for my portion. She was going behind my back,
and then when I got back, or when they all
got back from the trip, she was just icing me out.

(07:11):
She wouldn't answer phone calls, or when she did, she
would just get off the phone really quickly. And it
just I feel like we should be able to talk
about this. I've known her since I was nine. Wow,
you guys have been friends since you were nine years old.
You've never had any issue like this before as far
as communication goes. Obviously, girlfriends, you know, have their issues,

(07:32):
but on your end, there's nothing that You're like, this
one night happened, or this one event happened, and that's
where things went wrong for you. You're like, I have
no idea what what is happening? Are ups and downs?
Obviously we've had issues, but nothing like this, nothing like
this hold away like this. She feels like a stranger
to me. She feels like a stranger. That's and that's

(07:54):
always an awful feeling. So let's, you know what, Michelle,
Let's give her a call because the biggest part of
the show is us kind of being the mediators and
us helping the two of you communicate a little bit better.
The only thing that we ask on this show is
that we be respectful to one another. UM. I know
we can get caught up sometimes, UM and everyone can
get animated trust. But honey, I know. So we're gonna

(08:14):
try to make sure everyone's respectful to one another and
gives everyone an opportunity, um to speak. And and if
you need help, just we can have a Do you
want to have a safe word? It can be pickles.
So if you feel like you're getting too angry, you
say pickles, Michelle, and we will know that means Elijah
and you can can go on a separate call and

(08:35):
just he can calm you down for a minute, and
and Katie and I can talk. And uh. The end
goal here is to try to get the two of
you back together as friends. Um. And obviously you know
that that could mean you need to be ready to
hear something that you may not want to hear, right
because we never know going into things what other people
are gonna say. So I really want you to be
ready to hear constructive criticism. And I want you to

(08:58):
be ready to be opened my need to this. Okay,
now real quick, I do have a question for you though. Yeah,
if if if we do this discussion and you guys
kind of chit chat and it comes out there, she's
not ready to kind of men that fence. Are you
are you, okay to accept that? Will you be able

(09:18):
to receive that from her? I feel like I could
have there with some closure as to what happened between
us and knowing that the door be open in the
future for there to be a resolution for us to
come together. Okay, perfect, She just I just don't want
the door to close all the way, you know what
I mean? Yeah, I get it, absolutely all right, So
everybody hold tight. We are going to give Katie a

(09:42):
call and let's see if she picks up. Hang on
for just one moment. Hello, Hi, is this Katie? Hi Katie.

(10:04):
My name is Black Mamba, and I also have a
friend on the line. His name is Elijah Harris. We're
actually calling. I know what you're thinking. This is we
get that. We do get. We have gotten this. This
is not a prank call. Do you have a best
friend named Michelle? Okay, so your very lovely friend is

(10:26):
on the other line. She wrote into our show. We
try to bring friends back together when one feels like
there may have been some sort of miscommunication and the
friendship or relationship has grown apart. We are calling today.
We wanted to be the mediators to help Michelle and
kind of help you as well, kind of figure out

(10:48):
where your friendship has gone wrong. Now, you and Michelle
have been friends for a long time, right, like the
other line, Yeah, she's on the other line. She can't
hear you right now. It's just you itself and Elijah.
The reason Michelle wrote in is she was concerned because
recently it sounds like you all have had a girl's
trip that you all had that she couldn't attend. Is

(11:10):
that right? Okay? So she said that this year, unfortunately
because of her job, she was unable to go to
the trip with you gals. And she said, you know,
she really was bummed. She really wanted to go, but
of course, trying to keep her students safe, she did
not go. Now she feels like that may have been

(11:31):
the catalyst for perhaps you being upset with her, And
she is very I'm gonna be honest with you, Katie,
she is very unclear about why she feels like you
are pulling away. Now. You definitely could not be pulling away.
You could have just a busy life going on. But
she was concerned enough to write into our podcast. And

(11:52):
she loves you enough and wants to save this relationship
enough that she wrote in to try to get some help,
and she spoke beautifully about you. She always wants to
be a showstopper. I will say, though, before you get going,

(12:13):
I will say she did say some very beautiful things
about you. She said you were very loving and smart,
and she really raved about you as a friend. So
I do want you to know that it was nothing bad.
She just more wanted to figure out. And I think
sometimes you need a little help, Sometimes you need a
little courage sometimes in order to get there. And that's
why we're calling you today. Um, okay, well if I

(12:40):
if I guess, I will tell you the story. Uh
is she okay with like deleting out some of the
stuff if she's embarrassed about it, because I'm gonna tell
you absolutely so there is more about to get into it. Huh,
Katie said you better buck Lynn. Okay, okay, all right,
let's get into it. Ever, she knew, she knew what
she was signing up for. She knew what she was

(13:01):
signing up for. Okay, Well, she might want to bleep
her name out next. Okay, all right, We've been best
friends for centuries and it wasn't really about the trip,
and it wasn't about the COVID thing. It was more
about her husband. Her husband, Like it just feels like
she cops out of things, that it's the only girls thing, gotcha,

(13:26):
And I actually she knows this. I we were like
a big girls party with some acquaintances and one of
them was showing us like this guy sort of like
sexting on Instagram and Snapchat or whatever, and it happened

(13:48):
to be her husband. When I confronted her about it,
she got really mad and she blaze me. He just
makes all of us uncomfortable, to be honest, and it
just seems like they're so twinsy. It's annoying, Like just

(14:09):
let her go out on a girl date alone. It
wasn't about the money, it wasn't about the COVID. It
was about her husband. So can I ask you a
question about the husband? Really quick? Sorry, Like she's just
really quick. I just have a question. So do you
and him have a lot of interaction the two of you?
I avoid as much as possible. You do, okay, So

(14:29):
like when you go over to the house, for instance,
you wait until he's either on a trip, or maybe
you guys go out to dinner instead of going to
the house, or Okay, gotcha, got you. Guys aren't doing
a lot of like threesome double dates that sort of
stuff together. Do any of the other women Do any
of the other women do any of their husbands come
around a lot? Know when we have like a girl stuff, Like,

(14:53):
he's like usually the only husband like there. It's like
it's like controlling. So then when it came to all
of this happening, like this just happened to coincide, Like
the snapchat conversation just happened to coincide with the trip.
And is that why you haven't kind you've kind of
detached from the situation with her. It didn't actually happen

(15:17):
close for the trip. It happened like maybe like three
months before the trip, and I like showed it to her.
I confronted her about it, and she's like in complete
denial about it. So this has kind of been building
for you. For for her, it came out of nowhere,
But for you, this has been building for a while. Yeah.

(15:39):
Have you ever seen a friend date like a ship guy. Yeah? Ye,
and then you then you see them marry that guy. Yeah,
that's a toughie. That's a tough one to swallow. That's
a tough one to swallow. Okay, if you're comfortable, Katie,
we're going to get Michelle on the line. I'm going

(16:00):
to tell you what I told her, but we're going
to talk through it. Let's talk through it all together, okay.
The only thing that I ask is that we try
to be respectful of each other. So if you get frustrated,
I gave Michelle the code word of pickles you can have. Yeah,
I'm gonna give you one. I was gonna give you
coco chocolate. It's even more fun, isn't it. Coco chocolate.

(16:20):
So if you feel like I am getting so mad,
I'm going to say something that I'm gonna regret. Girls,
say cocoa chocolate and put the phone down for a minute.
And that's okay, okay, because I I haven't talked to
her for like a month. Really, yeah, this is going
to be like really awkward. Now has it been hard
for you? It's been really hard. I just okay, So

(16:43):
we're gonna we're gonna have you. We're gonna pause you
for just a minute, and then we're gonna get Michelle
on the line and we're gonna when we come back
on the line, both you and Michelle will both be
on the line. Okay, Katie, we got you, we got this.
We're gonna use great communication. We're gonna get through this. Okay,
all right, Okay, hang on the line for one second. Hi, Michelle, Hi, Okay,

(17:07):
so on the line right now. It's like a good
old fashioned party line. I have Michelle, Katie and Elishah
Hi everybody. Okay, Okay, So Katie, we spoke to Michelle,
just like we told you beforehand. And Michelle, we spoke
to Katie. Ladies, Okay, I can't believe that you called

(17:32):
into podcasts for this. Well, like okay, so see we're
already laughing. We're already laughing. So that's we're already happy there.
This is good, right, this is good. Okay. Now, I
told Michelle. I told Katie kind of the reason why
you wrote in, and we explained to her the reasoning.
And now I really want you to just listen to

(17:52):
what Katie is going to tell you about the reasons
why she's pulled away. Okay, and Katie, whenever you're ready,
take a deep breath and just be honest. Okay, Well,
I'm not going to say exactly what I said to you, guys.
Well know you can, you can a little harsh. That's okay, Okay,
it sounds great. So do you remember whenever I like

(18:17):
I told you about that girl? Yeah, the husband thing? Yes,
and you know how you are always with him at
parties and like he won't fucking leave you alone. I
mean only to my husband. But yeah, Michelle said, he's
my husband. But yeah, okay, So Michelle, tell us about

(18:39):
the snapchat incident. Do you remember the snapchat incident? I do?
I don't. Is that like the reason talking to me, Katie? No,
it's not the reason. It's just like whenever we first
met him, we all did not like him. He was
super flirty with everyone. Then that whole thing up in

(19:00):
and then he's always with you and you just can't
like get him off your jock. It's so annoying. Like
whenever we have a girl's night or like a brunch,
he's like, oh, I'll drop you off, and then he
like hangs out and we're like, uh, this is girls thing.
I feel like you didn't go to Belize because he
couldn't go with you. Is that true, Michelle? He is.

(19:25):
He does go to a lot of girls nights and stuff,
but it shouldn't matter if they don't like them. They
didn't have to marry him. I did. True, that is true,
but by but the thing is when you have if
there's a girl's night and you invite your husband, you
were forcing them into having to be around him on

(19:46):
a girl's night, which is usually when they're trying to
escape their men. Elijah, does that make sense? Fill Michelle?
Do you know what I'm saying? And I get being
in love and I get all of that ship, trust me,
I'm in it, But do you understand why? Maybe? And listen,
we all mary who we marry, and our friends and
family may or may not like them, But do you
understand where she's coming from when she says, hey, friend,

(20:07):
I love you. I love you so much that when
we get together, I just want you. I just want
to look in your eyes and have a conversation with
you and not you and your other half. Do you
know what you get that I do? And like, I
understand that if somebody had said that to me, maybe
I could sit down and have a talk with my husband.
I mean, I knew they weren't crazy about him, but

(20:27):
it also is like brand new information to me right now.
So can I ask a question, Michelle, So in your
letter you mentioned like the space that you create for Katie. Yeah,
and specifically in relation to your husband, can you give
an example of that. I just feel like the girls

(20:50):
are constantly wanting to do girls nights and constantly wanting
to do this and that and this, and that's all great,
but now I'm married and I also need to create
space with my husband. So if I'm wanting to go
out four nights a week to see my friends on
girls nights, I am going to bring him with me.
Sometimes got hold on y'all doing girls nights four nights, Okay,

(21:10):
I was like, that's a lot, that's more, that's more
than half the week. Yeah, I need some different girls.
Yeah now, but can I ask a question? When he
is around and he comes to these girls nights, is
it uncomfortably obvious enough that you are feeling, Katie that

(21:35):
Michelle should have picked up on your set on your
guys subtle hints or you or does he come around
you guys just act like he's a wall. Now, He'll
like stand at the kitchen, you know, like that little
bar thing. Yeah, well, while we're all like shooting girl
ship and like talking and having fun and like the

(21:55):
living room, yeah, and just like kind of be there
and you can't be open when they're standing there. I
pick up on that it is awkward. But because nobody
has specifically been like, hey, Michelle, leave your husband, Michelle,
I'm gonna go ahead and call you, Michelle. I'm gonna
call you all the way to the rug now, girl,

(22:17):
now you know better? Now you know if somebody won't now,
everybody and that's that we are talking to on right
now on this phone, has had the one friend who
has brought a rogue friend into a lunch or dinner
and y'all said, we're gonna make reservations. It's gonna be you, Me, Sam,
and Sarah. And then Sarah said, oh, pick one more

(22:38):
because I have a new friend named Beth and I'm
bringing her in and everyone's like, who the hell is Beth?
Who's Beth? And everyone's at lunch like, well, we can't
say what we would normally say because we don't know
Beth bething our people. Does that make sense? Like, Michelle,
come on, you got a cop to it a little bit. Also,
he can tell people other stuff that we say everybody correct.

(22:59):
Do you think maybe Michelle, you kind of wanted your
cake and you wanted to eat it too. Yeah, And
I mean if it was kind of like I was
in a rock and a hard place got you. They
don't want him there all the time. But do I
leave him at home and come home to like a
really crabby husband that might pick a fight with me
or might not, or because they're not staying anything, I

(23:20):
know it's not their favorite thing. Should I just bring
them and have them suck it up. Maybe I didn't
do the right thing, and maybe I can talk to
him about giving me more space and more girls nights.
But I don't you know what, I don't think that
you didn't even wrong. I wonder sometimes if you are
trying to please every Katie's I mean, I think it's hard.

(23:44):
I think it's hard when you have a spouse, because Katie,
you're not remembering that she has to have this conversation
with her husband. And we don't live with him, so
we don't know is he as sensitive person? Is he not?
And of course you don't want Michelle. Every time she
comes to hang out with you, she's got to get
into a fight with this dude, so she's not even
looking forward to seeing you. You also don't want that right,
So it's like you want to find the respectful line

(24:07):
where Michelle can have this conversation with her husband and
just go, hey, maybe on these when I go out
with the girls, if it can just be as and Michelle,
you might have to put a little bit that on yourself.
You might have to say, I really like my alone
time with them, and instead of maybe spending four hours
with them, what if I just cut it to two hours.
I won't drink and drive. I promise you can come
pick me up. We can chat all the way home.

(24:28):
I can tell you what we talked. We can I
can catch you all up drinking. Come on, I know
well what I do understand. I do understand what you're saying, Michelle.
But Frank, the question when you go out on your
girls nights, does your husband can he hang out with
his friends? Ve all under that? You know what made

(24:49):
me really sad about that whole conversation between Katie and that,
Like I wish if I knew that this was the issue,
that Katie and I could have sat down we've have
once for so long and like drafted something. She knows
my husband well enough, whether she likes him or not
to like, help me talk to him about this in
a way where he wasn't going to get upset. So

(25:10):
can I ask a question to you, Katie? Okay, Well,
don't feel terrible, Katie, we're just talking about Katie. Answer
this for for Michelle and not even for Elijah, and
I really answer this for yourself and for Michelle. Why
do you think you didn't feel comfortable being friends this
long being able to talk to her about this? I
know Katie told me about the texting, and I didn't

(25:32):
believe you've been like sisters forever and I just felt
like I heard her when I told her the sexting thing.
So you felt a little guilty. Yeah, there's a little
shame in that aspect. Okay, okay, which is normal. That's
fine to feel that kind of way. But the problem
that we often have is that, like you know, those

(25:53):
secondary emotions always usually typically come out as like anger, aggression,
or ditation, And I think that that's what it got.
I think that's what probably happened here a little bit,
is that instead of being able to kind of get
to the root of the problem, everyone was like felt
some guilt, some shame, and then that manifested itself in

(26:13):
a negative emotion. Absolutely, Yeah, that's exactly what I felt. Actually. Okay,
So how about, right now we get to the bottom
of this problem. Michelle, I'm assuming you've already spoken to
your husband about the snapchat thing. Are you past that? Michelle? Yeah?
And I'm not saying Katie was a liar or anything

(26:33):
she said was untrue, but it's our marriage and we
decided to work through whatever that was. Okay, Katie, can
you accept that and respect that boundary? Katie? Come on? Um, well,
yeah I can, but I'm not going to believe it
until I see it. Okay, So can I say something, Katie?
I want you to remember something. There's a reason why

(26:55):
you love Michelle, right There's there's all these amazing qualities
about her, and I'm sure one of the great qualities
about her is the decision to become your friend. She
made the decision a long time ago to not only
be friends with you, but stay friends with you, and
would you stay up until the point of her husband.
She made pretty good decisions. So trust your friend. So

(27:18):
trust your friend. But I'm just saying I'm not going
to believe it until I see it, and I do.
I would totally myself up to you again, Michelle, just
just just just trust Michelle a little bit. Just go
to a branch without your husband on the background, please.
So we're gonna get to that. But I'm talking about
the snapchat. I'm talking about snapchat, Katie. No more snapchat talk, right,

(27:39):
You're gonna Michelle is gonna has dealt with it on
her own. That's over, Okay. Now, Michelle and Katie when
we talk about brunch, what are some things that can
happen that Michelle you can do on your end and
Katie you can do on your end, and both of
you can respect one another, that you can be respectful
moving forward. No husband, Katie said, no husband, honey eight

(28:00):
he said, it's real easy. I could definitely talk to
him about that, and I will make it a point
to not bring my husband around seven. But as a compromise,
can your guys, husbands and boyfriends maybe start inviting him
out so he can also have something to do here

(28:22):
we go. That was actually a really good idea, don
you go, Katie? Because he loves your husband's but I
feel like he's he's kind of an awkward it because
your husband's no click clear. Yeah, yeah, I get that.
I think that's a good idea. So I'm gonna ask
you something because this will help set the president. Well,

(28:45):
this will just help clear things up in the future. Now,
I don't know your husband, so I'm not gonna say
whether or not he was guilty of that snapchat thing.
But in the future, if something like that information or
whatever happens, it comes to Katie again, do you just
want her to keep her mouth shut and sit on it.
That is a very good question. You want her to

(29:07):
tell you, and you got to be honest with yourself.
That way she knows, like, hey, there's a line this
in that way, she doesn't cross it again to her,
I do want you to tell me, Katie, but whatever
I decided to do with the information, I want you
to be able to just respect it. Katie. Can you
accept that? Yeah? Perfect? Okay, guys, guys, you know we

(29:32):
just diden you. Guys. This is so exciting. We are
so happy. Aren't you happy, Katie that your friend who's
a weirdo wrote into a weirdo podcast? Aren't you happy? Yeah?
It's very strange, but thank you guys so much for

(29:52):
getting my letter and helping me with this. I just
it's been a rough one and very and very long
and Michelle, yeah, texting you after this, I'm gonna yell
at you there. I love it. Back to that good
old friend. Al Right, guys, thank you so much for
listening to the pilot episode of Mending Fences as part

(30:14):
of the Next Great Podcast one competition from My Heart
Radio and Tongle. We really, from the bottom of our hearts,
want to thank I Heart Radio, Dan Patrick and Tongle
because without this opportunity, you would not be listening to
this right now. We know what a special opportunity to
this is and we really hope that you guys see

(30:35):
the vision behind it. Do not forget to vote. Voting
is the most important part. That's how we win this thing.
We think everyone who listens, and good luck to everybody,
but of course we're rooting for ourselves, all right, guys,
until next time. By Hi, this is Sienna from Top Popcorn,

(31:00):
last year's winner of the Next Great Podcast. Thank you
so much for listening to this episode, and be sure
to go vote for your favorite at Next Great Podcast
dot com. M
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