John Krasinski - Pt. 1

Today we hear from Big Tuna himself, Jim Halpert AKA John Krasinski. He rewinds with Brian to the moment in casting that John knew Jenna was the one, the time he inadvertently filmed one of the most iconic shots in the opening credits (and how naive he was when he sold that shot), and the lesson he’s carried with him ever since the show ended.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The art world. It is essentially a money laundering business.
The best fakes are still hanging on people's walls. You know,
they don't even know or suspect that their fakes. I'm
Alec Baldwin and this is a podcast about deception, greed,
and forgery in the art world. I just walked in
and saw this great red painting presuming to be a Rothko.

(00:26):
Of course, art forgeries only happen because there's money to
be made, a lot of money. I'm listening to how
what they're paying for these things. It was an incredible
amounts of money. You knew the painting was fake. Um
Listen to Art Fraud on the I Heart Radio app,

(00:46):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Check out
the new podcast I Kobe. Do you want to understand
how Kobe Bryant achieved his unequal determination? How did he
come to his incredible passion to win? In I Am Kobe,

(01:09):
we reveal intimate, never before heard tapes of Kobe when
he was a teenager, just as he was starting to
glimpse his own greatness. It's about the making of an icon.
We weave together these tapes with Kobe's high school coaches,
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All episodes are out now so you can binge the
whole thing. Listen to I Am Kobe on the I

(01:31):
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts.
Have you ever felt depressed about work only to have
your dad be like, why you're so down? So you
told him you hate your job and he said, well,
you better talk yourself out of it, and then you thought, hmm,
I love to talk. I could host a podcast. And
then you went to Speaker from my Heart and started
a podcast and got good at it, then monetized it,
then quit your boring job and told your dad thanks

(01:53):
for the advice. And he was like, well, that's not
what I meant, and I don't understand what a podcast is.
But you seem happy, So that's great, kiddo. You ever
do that, well, you could at speaker dot com. That's
spr e A K E. R. Ask your dad. You
actually don't. Oh, I'm John Krasinski and I played Jim

(02:16):
Albert on the Office. Oh hello everybody, uh and welcome
to this week's episode of the Office Deep Dive. I
am your host Brian Baumgartner. Today, you are going to

(02:39):
hear him in a way you have never heard him before,
the hunkiest man in the office, John Krasinski. Now, I
actually had to go to New York uh in the
dead of winter. I might add to have my conversation
with John because at the time he was put the

(03:00):
finishing touches on his film A Quiet Place Too, he
was doing final edits, he was getting ready for the premiere,
working very hard, and then about a week later, boom,
global pandemic. That's right, so that premiere did not happen.

(03:20):
I had to return the tucks I had rented um.
The release date obviously was postponed, like very postponed. But
I am excited to announce that A Quiet Place Too
is now finally coming out. I cannot wait. I love
the first one. If you haven't seen it, go check

(03:41):
that one out because this this movie is going to
be great. Anyway, I'm so glad I got to talk
to John before we got stuck on opposite coast because
seeing him in person, well, there's an energy. Well it's palpable.
I'm not going to call it sexual energy. I'm just
gonna say it's palpable. You you can decide what kind

(04:03):
it is. John is a great storyteller. He's so funny
and he remembers all kinds of things that that I
do not remember from the show Boss. It's it's just
great to see my friend. So please enjoy the one
and only j K. Bubble and Squeak. I love it.

(04:31):
Bubble and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cook at every month.
Left over from the night before. Hey body, I just

(04:58):
never let it. Thanks for choosing to kill floor to
record this. Hey, what do you mean? It was the scariest,
darkest I actually agree. I got out and looked I
right and was like where I think I'm in the
wrong spot? Oh, what's up are you doing? Dude? What's
your hats? Um? How are you? By the way, Just

(05:22):
so you know, this is not rebeca. I just want
to teach you about things when you were like found
a place in Tribeca. I didn't say that. I said,
this is this is horrible to we're recording this on
the stat now. It's literally horrible to get here. I
ended up getting out of my car and walked because
it's still taking you in. I'm just drinking you in.

(05:42):
You have not changed. It's really frustrating what everyone says
that I really feel like I have. No, you haven't.
I certainly am you have a lot. I'm elderly. Why
would you say that I feel elderly? Else I can't
even say elderly. What's with the intense beard though? Um?
It started with laziness and then turned into winter, so

(06:06):
it's just insulation. Really, gotta be honest. My wife, I
was gonna shave it, and you want don't do that?
So she liked it. Hello, Um, I can't do you know?
I love No, I like it. No, I'm saying I
love it here here in New York. Just too cold.
We've moved on from the beard. Okay, well you talked
about winter. I thought that was a seamless transition. Get

(06:27):
ready for a lot of those. Um I I love
it here. You should move here. It's really cold and
it's literally the opposite of what you want. There's not
a lot of golf. You've really done the post office thing, right,
I'll tell you that. What do you mean? Just you know,
show ends. You just become this like golfing extraordinaire. Like

(06:49):
people don't know that I was over in a Monte Carlo, Monica, Monica, Monica,
one of those m's. Yeah, that's Monte Carlo and Monica.
I think it's kind of the same thing. I'm not
clear of. All I know is that I heard that
you were there. I texted you and you said, I'm going,
oh my god, this is great. I'm about to golf

(07:09):
on a cliff overlooking like nice or something. It was like, cool, man,
sorry about your life. Um, look at that you got notes?
Is so official? No, no, I mean this is let's
get back to it. You've now gotten everybody almost other
than Steve basically, Uh yeah, Mike, sure, I'm gonna start

(07:31):
making this noise. I'm sure I'm gonna get that note
pretty soon. Yep, that's a nod in the back. Alison Jones.
Did you get Phillis? Yep, and I got them together
as a that's awesome. You know Allison knew Phillis did not. Man. Yeah,
they were like mystics. They knew what was happening before

(07:53):
we did in the casting process. They knew they were
cooking something. But you started in New York, right I did? Yeah? Yeah,
So you just it was like what an open call
or you got called into I got Wow, the elderly
things taking it. I got. I had just gotten a manager.
I had gone out to l A to shoot this
pilot and then they immediately didn't pick it up. And

(08:13):
before I left l A, my manager said you should
meet this person, Alison Jones. So I went by and
met her and wanted her to adopt me. And then
she said, you should pay attention to this thing coming
out soon and it's called The Office and you should
you should come in for it, and I said, oh,
that's really nice. So I got back to New York
and about three weeks later, my manager called and said,
they want you to come in for the show called

(08:34):
The Office. And I was like, Alison Jones pro and
they said, they want you to come in for the
role of Dwight. And at that point I had seen
and fallen in love with the British show. I was
down at Virgin Records. Remember that I was down at
Virgin Records in Union Square buying the like black DVD
case with this special edition and just binge watching that thing.

(09:00):
And that's what made me so nervous, so that I
actually said I don't know where I got. I was
still waiting tables and I don't know where I got
the confidence to go, yeah, no, I don't want to
go in for Dwight. Let me know when they're doing
the Tim character. And they basically said like how dare you?
Who are you? And my manager did say he was
like wow, that didn't go great. They were very upset,

(09:22):
and then, very luckily for me, like four three, four
weeks later, they still hadn't found a gym, and then
they were like, now you can come in for Jim
and I was like okay, and then I went in
trying to remember I guess I did one just with
the casting people. It was totally terrified, because not only
was I excited about the prospect of getting the part,

(09:44):
but I was also very nervous. Oh my god, I
don't want to be on one of those shows that
because I was such a TV nerd, and I remember
like Arrested Development was coming out around then and that
was really good and smart, and I was like, oh no,
we're going to take a really good, smart show and
kill it. And while I was waiting in the waiting room,
six gyms that looked identical to me had gone in

(10:04):
and done their audition and left, and We're like high
fiving each other and I was the last one, and
right at that exact moment, they were like, we're gonna
take a lunch break for an hour and I was like, oh,
maybe see one more and we get one more in
and I sat there very nervous, and everybody left. It
was at thirty rock, and then they came back with
sandwiches and salads and someone sat down across from me

(10:25):
with a salad and said, you know you're nervous and
I said, no, you know, you either get these things
or you don't. But I'm terrified for the person creating
a show, because I mean, I I just feel like
Americans have such a track record of taking brilliant shows
and ruining them. And he goes, I'll try not to.
My name is Greg Daniels. I'm the executive doucer. And

(10:45):
then I called my manager and said I'm going to
leave now. There's no way I can go into this
room and he was like, you have to, you have
to go in, and you know, blah blah blah. And
I went in and I remember opening the door to
uproarious laughter, and it was not laughter with me, it
was definitely laughter at me. And Greg was running the
room and very sweetly, but just like this is the

(11:08):
guy who ruined his own life, and everybody was like laughing,
and it, weirdly was this bizarre blessing because because they
were already laughing, I felt like I was already in
my audition when I walked in. So I just kept
going and read some lines and they laughed. And then
later I remember Greg saying, I'll never forget that. You

(11:29):
told me that it really helped your audition because you
were really honest, and I remember I, that's the vibe
that I want on this show, someone who will be
honest and make sure that we're all doing good work.
And I was like totally. So now I go into
every audition for anything just being like, so this movie
sucks all right, hasn't worked since. But but the weirdest

(11:49):
thing was I came and I didn't know this that
there's a dynamic between New York actors and l A actors.
Did you know this. It's like sharks and jets, Like
the New actors go first because they flew in for it.
And I remember Jim Gaffigan was on my plane auditioning
for Steve's part, and we were all in this room

(12:10):
doing auditions, and I remember I got really nervous because
we had been auditioning for like two hours, and then
they like, slowly, we're letting New York people go. And
then I watched all the l A people come in
and was just completely judging myself on them. Man, I'm
having like a an acid flashback. But two people walked
in that really blew my brain out. One was bj Novak,

(12:35):
who I hadn't seen really since high school. We went
to high school together, all right, so you knew him,
and he walked in. He walked Yeah. I mean imagine
like somebody from your high school walking into a bizarre scenario.
Already you're in some weird, bizarro world auditioning to be
doing something pretend for the rest of your life, and
then that person walks in. It was an acid trip
and I was like hey, And then I got more
nervous because he acted and directed and everything in high school,

(12:57):
like he was already in and I was barely an actor.
I mean I wasn't an actor. I was a waiter.
And I was like, what part are you going out for?
And he was like, oh, we're going I'm doing this
part called Ryan. It's like and I was like, oh,
you're not going for Jim. Then I might say, other
shot at this, and then I was like, cool man,
that's awesome, and was super like giving myself a fist pump.
And then I know it sounds like a like a

(13:19):
fairy tale, but it's true. I remember Jenni Fisher walking
in and as soon as she crossed the threshold on
the door, I was like, well, that's it, Like that
is exactly who should play Pam. And then what happened
was I watched her go in with all the other
gyms and I was like, oh no, because like I
saw that they were just lining up the gyms with her,

(13:39):
and I was like, see, she's it's the tipping point.
She's it. And I remember saying to myself alone in
a corner, Uh, if I don't go in with her,
I know I don't have it. I know I don't
have it. And I never went in with her. And
then four hours after they had like go of all
the New York guys, I was sitting there and stood
up and walk on set while they were in the

(14:01):
middle of someone's audition, and I was like, I'm so sorry,
I'm gonna leave now. I think you forgot to let
me go home, and from behind a door like a
fake wall, they were like all right, and then like
Greg came out and they're like, just give us thirty
more minutes, and I was like, and I was so insecure,
and then I turned around. I waited another fifteen twenty
minutes and they were like one more, just come on in.

(14:21):
And I walked in and I saw that it was Jenna,
and I was like, oh my god, if I'm auditioning
with her, I'm back. You have a shot. And we
did a scene together that was awesome, and I remember
having so much fun with it. I think it was
at the copier. I think I think it was one
at the desk and one at the copier and we
just had to improv about stuff. And then we were
walking out and I turned to her and I was like,

(14:43):
just so you know you're gonna get the part. I
know you're gonna get the part. And she was like,
oh my god. I said the same thing about you.
As soon as I saw you. I was like, that's
Jim And it was really weird. And I was like
all right, And again, I don't know why this happened,
but when I got the part, which was amazing. I
legit jumped on a couch. Didn't think that that was real.
And the only question I asked my manager at the
time was did Jennificer get it? It It was like I

(15:04):
didn't even get fully happy until I knew that she
was doing the part, because I was like, if she's
the part, then again, it's just that one more step
where like this might be good. It's so interesting because
that a four hour story and that was really good,
but what it um, it's interesting. I had never heard

(15:25):
this before. Greg said she was she was it from
the beginning. Yeah, it's weird right like and look is
just so perfect for it. But then also like I
don't know, man, they were selling in her delivery how
like I don't know what the word is, like demure
or something. And she was so good. I remember being
so nervous when I was auditioning with her because I

(15:46):
was like she was so subdued and under where I
was like, oh my god, I'm I'm like I'm doing
like physical comedy bits compared to you. So I just
went super submerged and was like by the end just
being like like really talking. So so does she help
you oh, for sure, because again I knew that my chance,

(16:07):
my only chance, was with her, And as soon as
I started acting with her, I was like, dude, this
is the one. Don't blow this. Like I had auditioned
with Rain, I also kind of knew Rain was going
to get it, only because he was so I've told
this story. He knows this story is like we were
doing an improv about a bunch of things, and they
did one where I had to go to the bathroom
and I asked him to watch my phone. And by

(16:30):
that time I was feeling great and Rain was so
good and so funny, and then in this particular improv
he was so infuriating. I remember leaving the scene being
like he might get it because I'm actually so annoyed
being in this room with him as John Krasinski rather
than Jim Albert. He was so good. I remember I
was like, hey, can you watch my phones? And he

(16:51):
did this thing where he pretended that like security doors
were coming down. He was like, and I was like, dude,
can you just watch my phone? He was like like
all the like weird shutting like eighties wipes shutting doors.
It was. It was so incredible and by the end.
I think I broke and laughed because he was so
infuriating that I just had to laugh. He was so

(17:12):
good at what he was doing. He was making me
physically angry. Well, it's funny that you mentioned that, because
we you know, he and I really were the two
that came from like theater, theater, like Shakespeare and check
off and and throw that in my mouth. But I'm
doing he and I in terms of character construction. The

(17:34):
physicality was a conscious decision. Were just tuned out. It's
just it's just so highbrow theater garbage. Yeah, but that's
what we're doing. What did you also learn fencing at school?
Come on, I know I was. I wasn't training at all,
and it was very odd. But no, I'm not saying that,
although I will tell you this. Phyllis was cast and

(17:58):
we started filming episode Oodes and she was like, I
don't know what I'm doing. I can't keep up. And
she went and bought books on improv and went home
at night and read them on These stories are amazing
and adorable. I mean some of some of my favorite
moments on the show or Phillis and stuff. She is
so funny. Yeah. God, the relationship with her and Steve

(18:22):
was because didn't we say that they like they went
to school high school together, they knew each other. I
love that, And he would reference how much older she was.
It's such a good bit. By the way, Jenna tells
the same story about asking about you. Yeah, she was

(18:43):
cast because I contractually made her, which is so which
is so crazy? Um so, I mean, here's the thing
you're like, the you're like the hunky like this is
a great segment. No, I'm not transitioning. I've given up
on it. He used the word hunky to start a thought. Hunky.
I don't know what the right word is. But part

(19:04):
of what we're looking at in the show was like
the TV landscape at the time was way prettier than
we were. You look at friends, Will and Grace and
there was a transition with Alison Jones uh and freaks
and geeks and and wanting to cast people who were
more real. Were you aware of that at the time

(19:28):
or did you realize that we were doing something. I
don't think I would have been cast if it wasn't
for that. Well, I mean I think again. I saw
the English show and I was like, I could feel
the vibe of what they were going for, and I
knew shooting wise, I immediately felt even from the lighting
of that probably the test. They were just using those weird,

(19:49):
you know, office lights, which I thought was so cool,
Like everything just looked kind of bummer in a good way.
Because that makes sense. No, it does make sense. So
you get cast in the show, you're living in New York,
you went to Scranton and shot. What was your decision
behind that? Just pure nerd um, just super nerdy. So

(20:12):
excited to have this part. And Greg contacted me to say, congrats,
you have the part. And I was so excited. I
was twenty three, and I was you know, I think
at that time in my life my only experiences with
was in college just sort of like let life happen.
Who knows, right, And so I was like so excitable,
like a puppy. And I said to Greg, I was like,

(20:35):
I'm gonna go to Scranton and I'm gonna do research.
And he was like, oh cool, Yeah, there's actually a
paper company there that does like cards and stuff. I
gotta see that footage because I think they have it.
But I went and I was so excited. I went
with my friend Kevin Connors, and we drove to Scranton
and out of his Jeeps sunroof, I had a tiny

(20:57):
little camera and that shot the Scranton sign is us
driving at full speed limit. So I just sort of
like popped out of the sunroof and was like, oh wait,
wait wait, and he didn't really know, so I was
like filming it as we drove by. Then I went
around this paper company all day and interviewed the boss,

(21:18):
but the boss found out that it was based on
the English one, and then realized that the boss is
the boob and I was like, I don't want this
to ever air and don't make me look bad, and
it was not great. And then I came back just
thinking that I had immersed myself in this thing and
really done some research. Man, and then Greg goes, can

(21:40):
I have that footage? And I said sure, and then
he said I might use it for the opening of
the show and I went what And he was like,
so I have to buy it from you? Can I
buy your footage? And I was like I don't know,
like you can just have it again super young. I
was like, no, no, you could just have it, and
so I think he he was like no, we gotta
buy it, and I think he got it for I

(22:01):
think like a thousand dollars. Are you so you just
did a buyout, a straight buyout buyout? Yeah? Again, it
was like decisions so dumb, So I could have been
making that was could have been the greatest investment in
my life. No, truly, I know that is insane. You
know about the sign, right, Has anyone ever told you

(22:23):
this the sign that you got out of the sun
roof and filmed. You know, it's not on the highway anymore.
It's in the mall because too many people were stopping
along the highway to take pictures by it. It is
now that sign is now not on the highway to
Grant because it was a safety because safety issue. It's

(22:55):
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the creator of The Bright Sessions, comes a new fiction
podcast for all ages. Jump back to and follow Maxim
Miles as she starts high school in the picturess town
of Hastings, New Hampshire. Fall is the season in which
this small town shines apple cider, pumpkin patches farmers markets.

(24:50):
It's idyllic for adults and boring for Max. But suddenly
Max's school year starts to look a bit more interesting
when a fellow student vanishes with help of or missing Thropp,
a classmate Ross, Max starts to look into the disappearance.
Her investigation draws her deep into the dark woods around Hastings,
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(25:13):
a mystery from writer director Lorn Chippen, is an audio
drama with heart and wit that involves the audience in
a way no fiction podcast ever has. Listen to Max
and Miles and the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your favorite shows. The art world.
It is essentially a money laundering business. The best fakes

(25:37):
are still hanging on people's walls. You know they don't
even know or suspect that they're fakes. I'm out like
Baldwin and this is a podcast about deception, greed and forgery.
In the art world, you knew that the painting was fake. Um,
listen to Art Fraud on the I Heart Radio app,

(25:58):
Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Greg talked

(26:23):
about he felt like his job for the pilot, for him,
it was about creating the world as opposed to the
writing of the words. So so many things that happened
in terms of remember kappas and our thirty minutes of
busy work. Oh my god, Yeah, I remember that. I
totally kind of like, you know, it was like an

(26:45):
acting exercise. I made funny you a practicing school, but
really it's it's true. I remember that being like so nerdy,
and then by the end of it, you were kind
of into it. You were kind of dialed in, like
juffling in the papers, and and he talked about wanting
to do that because he wanted the space to fuel
lived in and we had been there for a long time.

(27:06):
I thought he was just trying to get us out
of our heads to not think about lines thirty minutes
of busy work. That's right, He's he's the most amazing energy.
But you know, don't you feel like nobody else could
have directed that pilot? Yes? Is that what you were
getting at. I stopped your flow. No, I just think
you know that was one element the lighting that you

(27:28):
talked about. Um, the set design was amazing. Set design.
They talked to me also about that the architecture of
the space was important. That you knew where Jim and
Dwight's clump was relative to Michael, relative to accounting and
Pam and all of that stuff. That it's totally true.
It works. It was like some of the story, I mean,

(27:50):
so much of the story is being told in the camera,
Like when the camera whips to a geographic region, you
already know who you're going to. Like you, we always
knew where you were. Oh, everybody, we're checking out fantasy football.
You had such a great little like secret hole back there. Yeah,
I know. I never bothered, never paid attention to do

(28:11):
you know Greg on the show during this he finally
said something to me that no one ever said to
me before. When a great scene was written that didn't
really have an end, I would like, um, like a
wide receiver to a quarterback. I would give Matt Son
a little nod, right, so you guys would do your thing.

(28:34):
Matt soon would whip over to me if I had
an idea, and Greg told me that when they were
having trouble ending a scene, Greg would say, what was
Brian doing? Where is the where is the thing? Yeah?
I was. I'm pretty proud of that one. Well you
sound conceited, but yeah, no you should be. I mean,
I am, no, but I am. What Let's think back
what you just said. When a scene was going great,

(28:54):
I'd give Matt a nod and say I'll make it better.
You also said like a receiver to a quarterback. Yea,
like a lot of people tuned out on that one.
MM And if they didn't tune out on the acting
school and I wasn't properly trained, and you know that.
You think they're long gone by now. Oh yeah, most
of them left on the acting thing. That's why I'm
feeling free right now. Yeah, but it's funny. Yeah, you

(29:17):
said the other thing. I remember. I remember when they
told me that Randall and Matt came from Survivor and
I thought that was the coolest thing ever. And then
on an episode two I remember saying to Matt, like,
just let me know where you want to be and
he was like, no, no no, no, don't that's my job.
Don't tell me where you're going to be, it will

(29:38):
make it feel more alive. And if we hadn't had them,
the guys from Survivor whose job it was to find
behavior that was happening because it wasn't technically scripted, I
think that might be a weird secret element that people
don't realize, Like people don't realize that like Randal and
Matt would dive across the table, knowing full well that

(29:59):
not he was an injury imminent, but that the take
would only be point two seconds because the camera would
kind of catch someone and then smashed to the ground.
But that moment would feel so much more alive. And
I remember Randall would sometimes say like, no, I will
not reposition myself for a better shot, because then it

(30:20):
will show that we were aware of what you guys
were doing and we can't. And I was like, Wow,
that is so high level. That is that was next
level stuff they're they're adage was everything that makes it
harder makes it better. Wow, that's cool. Yeah, did you
have a conscious to sit or did you have a
conversation with Greg about Jim's relationship to the camera. Yes,

(30:42):
I remember talking to Greg about it, and I kind
of remember a version of like Mike Sure talking about
it a lot, because I remember Mike loved those looks
early on. How awesome is that? By the way, I
don't think that's ever happened. Like every take seven writers
would blow out of that door that we never you know,

(31:03):
because that was the writer's room that would never say
what it is, and it would blow out and be like,
all right, that was amazing, and then cut that bar
because what you said was way funnier. And like we
always did the script many times, but then they started
tweaking the script as we went. It was so alive.
I felt like I almost felt like you were doing
live theater anyway. But I remember Mike coming in with

(31:23):
that amazing laugh several times when I looked to camera
and he was like, that was so great. And then
I think it started to become let's not over use it,
but it's a it's a really important story point. And
I think what I remember Greg and I talking about
is how I was the window to the audience. I
was the character who right when you were thinking this
was all ridiculous, I would turn to you and go,

(31:45):
you're right, this is ridiculous, or I would load it
by saying like, wait till you see what's about to happen,
and it's that was really interesting to me. I thought
that was so fascinating and smart, and I didn't think
of it. See, I'm not conceded. I will say other
people had good idea. Is not just a humble brag. No,
it's not. No, not like when we were winning the game,

(32:06):
I said, put me in coach. God, um, so talk
a little bit about you're a fan of the British show.
We start work on a ratings are not good. But
are you feeling good about what we were doing? Oh
my god, yeah, I think you know, shooting the pilot,
we were all a little nervous, right, I think so

(32:26):
we all felt like, oh my god, we're gonna be
judged on the actual British script. At least that's what
I felt. But I was just so happy to be there.
I knew the group was working really well. I knew
the show like our like you said, the world was
really good, the vibe is really good. All the actors
were incredible, And I gotta be honest, it was probably

(32:48):
one of the reasons why I was able to keep
a level head, because I didn't care if the show
did well or not because I asked, um, what's his name?
Oh my god, Um the executive that came every Friday,
and that like, super handsome dude. I'm gonna remember his name.
He was so nice. No, no, no, he's super handsome
as well. No, Jeff Engl, I gotta I gotta take

(33:15):
a nap after pulling that. Jeff was the nicest guy.
But don't you remember he would come down super nice,
dressed well, handsome ass guy and I'd be like, what's up,
Jap And He's like, oh, great, I love this episode.
This will be the last one. And I was like oh,
and he's like, yeah, it's just not getting the ratings
and the and the network doesn't get it. I love it,
but this is gonna be the last one. He said

(33:36):
that every week of the first season, those first six
are six totalot just every week, and so on the
like fifth week, I said to him, can you make
me a DVD so I can give it to my
mom so she at least knows that what I was
doing out here was real and that I wasn't like
living under a bridge somewhere. And he said, yes, I

(33:59):
still have that d E that he wrote hand wrote
on it the office episodes one through six, So that's
kind of all I cared about, was like, I definitely
want to show my friends because this will be one
of those things that's brilliant but canceled. And I want
to show my mom and I want her to know
that I'm okay. But I'll tell you I do know.

(34:19):
When it changed for me was I used to go
to this same dinner every morning with my buddy Danny,
and on a Wednesday, because we used to air on Tuesdays.
I think that at that time I walked it on
a Wednesday morning and the same diner, same people. We're
now looking up and be like, that's that's to do
from that show and it was sexual Harassment had aired

(34:40):
the night before. I at least that was my moment
that I've really knew something had changed, like people were
watching and it started. It was weird because I was
really happy about it, obviously, but I was also a
little freaked out because that's sort of like secret club
that we had was no longer secret. Obviously, it was
great that Cob was not secret, but it was like

(35:01):
a big transition for me. I remember that it took
me a while to that people knew who I was
was very weird. I also remember this moment I was
walking here in New York and I was walking through
and this guy put his hand up real fast in
my face and I thought I was getting assaulted. And
he was like, you're on my iPod, dude, And I

(35:22):
was like, what is an iPod? What are you showing me?
And there was my dumb face on his whatever was
like an inch by an inch or two video iPod,
big dial, big dial. That was trippy for me. Interesting.
And then the third and final thing was when we
got parodied on SNL. Remember Fred Armison did a weekend

(35:46):
update piece. He was pretending to be Steve Jobs or
was he talking about Steve Jobs. I think he was
pretending to be Steve Jobs, and he kept saying iPod
and he was going iPod the office at Apple, the office, iPod,
iPod the office. And I remember that laughing really hard
because I loved everything Fred did, but I was also like,
whoa if we're being parodied on S and L, this

(36:07):
is big, I think for me. The first Christmas episode
that we did, that's kind of when the video iPod
came out. There was a deal with Apple as you
as you referenced that we were going to be on there,
and that's when we were in. Our second season was
like six episodes, four episodesodes one more Zero Confidence, and

(36:29):
then I remember Greg saying it all. You know, I
think a lot of people get to say, you know,
we owe it all to our fans, but I think
we might be the only show who actually owes it
all to our fans. Because Greg told me that when
people started paying for shows that they could watch for
free on their TV, then they had to pick up

(36:50):
the show. And I remember being like what that was
just so mind blowing to me. Yeah, the risk taking
that was happening from day one, because imagine the conversations
that were going on at the network, which again I
know the network totally was hands off, because at the
end of the day, I think they were sort of like,
we put the screws to you, it succeeded even us,

(37:12):
and then now let's just leave you alone and make
your magic. Which I remember that story. Did Greg tell
you that. I think it was around sexual or whatever
was the big hit. I know I remember as sexual apprassment,
but maybe it was something else. One of our table
reads there were like six people from the network and
they're always used to be one And after that table read,
he was like nope, And he supposedly said to them,

(37:34):
do not come back or I quit, Like, now that
we have proven ourselves, you don't get to change the formula.
That to me, especially now that I've had more experience
in this business, I think it is not only rare,
it's damn near impossible to have a leader like that.
And again he comes across as the nicest guy ever.
But to have someone who's willing to stake their career

(37:56):
on big swings like that, and then you realize, yeah,
that was going on since day one. They were taking
risks from day one. Yes, Lee Eisenberg told me that
UM dinner party, He said, it came back really well.
The writers had come up with this great idea. He
and Jean had written this episode and it came back

(38:17):
and the network called network executive and Lee didn't know
who it was, said, Um, great scrapt so funny, really
really funny. It's really dark and Greg was like, yep,
I mean it's it's really dark. Greg was like, h yeah,
it is, yeah, but I mean it's like it's real dark.

(38:43):
Greg's like, m guys, anything else like nope, okay, thanks
for calling hung out amazing and that's like some Jedi minds. Yeah,
and Lee was like again from Greg, just the most
baller like. But that's what I mean is like I'm
now like directed movies, and even in my directing movies,
I find myself totally going with that of like, yeah,

(39:06):
you know what, maybe I'll try that, or like he
just sat on the wall and was like you will
not pass. It was amazing. But that's what I mean
is like that, It's it's incredible that that's who we
had on the wall, because even a impressive showrunner would
have come back and be like, dos in, guys, we
gotta shoot one other version where it's not as dark.

(39:27):
And then he was like no, yeah, hey, it's Jake
Halpern here. If you've ever wondered what it's like to
make a true crime podcast like deep Cover, well now's
your chance to find out. Join me and my friend

(39:48):
Dana Goodyear, who's the host of Pushkin's Lost Hills podcast,
on March sixteen for a digital conversation on true crime storytelling.
We'll talk about how we make our stories. Drem Attic
and accurate, and how we navigate all the ethical dilemmas
that we face in the process. Get your tickets now
at moment house dot com backslash d c l H.

(40:12):
That's moment house dot com slash d c l H.
And we're live here outside the Perez family home, just
waiting for the And there they go, almost on time.
This morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong
with a double arm kid carry. Looks like Dad has
the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh but

(40:33):
the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere.
Oh but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat
buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who
looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself
in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag clothes and
they're off. But looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee

(40:54):
cup is still on the roof of the car. And
there it goes. That's a shame that mug was a
fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff, just nailed the
big stuff, like making sure your kids are buckled correctly
in the right seat for their agent's eyes. Learn more
than n H T s A dot gov slash The
Right Seat visits n h T s A dot gov
slash The Right Seat brought to you by NITZA and

(41:16):
the Ad Council. I'm Colleen with join me the host
of Eating Wall Broke podcast while I eat a meal
created by self made entrepreneurs, influencers, and celebrities over a
meal they once ate when they were broke. Today I
have the lovely aj Crimson, the official Princess of Compson,
Asia Kidding, and Assia. This is the professor. We're here

(41:37):
on Eating Wall Broke, and today I'm gonna break down
my meal that got me through a time when I
was broken. Listen to Eating Wall Broke on the I
Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast or wherever you get
your podcasts. Um your relationship with the Brain, Jim and Dwight.

(42:04):
One of the things that we've been talking about are
like comedy duos, right, and we talked about the ensemble,
and it is like the greater ensemble, but also like
the pairings like the accountants Michael and Dwight, Dwight and Jim,
you know, and how all of those things the smaller

(42:24):
groups work together. That's when I think the show became
stratospheric is when you guys started having real storylines, you
know what I mean. Like I remember when like Creed
had a big storyline for the first time, and I
was like, this is it, man, This is like painting
pictures with the four primary colors or using everything you

(42:44):
have in the palette and how much more beautiful. I
remember feeling that the show is like genuinely lifting off
because like everyone, you know, all those bullpen scenes got
so much funnier when everybody was involved, Like Diversity Day,
Diversity that which was the second an episode, but it's crazy.
That's when I knew that we were doing something different
than the British. I might have even said it's a

(43:07):
rain or Jenna. I was like, whoa. Like the fact
that we're being this sort of on the edge and
it's so funny and making such a great social commentary
using Steve as the the sort of boob character. It
was so next level Like that. That's when I realized, like, oh,
if I wasn't on this show, I would be obsessed

(43:27):
with this show. I remember when Larry Wilmore said my
name is Mr Brown, he goes, I'm not calling you that.
I lost my mind. That joke was so good. That
was b J wrote that, right, yeah, so good. But
you um, the Gem and Dwight stuff, and specifically what
everybody talks about are the pranks and the two of
you guys working together. Why do you think you two

(43:50):
worked so well together. I don't know either the characters
or the you know, the actors, You and Rain well.
I mean, I think obviously there's some version of the
old adage of polar opposites are always great. You know,
whatever happens when you put two polar opposite characters together
is sort of magical because it's the odd couple, you

(44:13):
know what I mean. And I think that the beauty
of our show that I really remember being so special
is when pretty early on, they would allow Rain's character
to have heart and he felt bad for him at times,
and then he totally not make you feel bad for
him because he'd be doing crazy stuff. But I remember

(44:35):
that that really helped me with the pranks because it
wasn't just being mean to him. Because pranks are easy,
you know what I mean. I think pranks are kind
of the easiest form of jokes. I don't mean on
our show. I'm saying, like doing a prank to someone
because it's fishing a barrel kind of you know. But
I think that what the writers did so well was
make those pranks kind of loving and like brotherly, Like

(44:57):
there was a brother aspect to it that I think
made them so great because I wasn't being mean. I
was doing something that I knew he kind of got
to kick out of two. I don't know that that's
my theory on it, but I think that he was
everything I didn't want to be, or so I thought.
We were in the scenes together coming from two totally
different places, and that's what was so cool, like that

(45:19):
weird explosive thing, and it was one of those things
where you know, I think that when you put yourself
as an audience member and you're like, I think this
is funny. I knew this is what I would want
to see, is me trying to tell him something and
him being annoying. Or the best is when we teamed up,
when we did when we did stuff together and we
were a team, that was great. That stuff was amazing,

(45:41):
like those those talking heads where we do together. Don't
think I was professional once in those because when I
sat in a chair next to him, that weird energy
radiated off of him, and I just started laughing. I'm
a crier laugher, and I had like that high pitched
girl laughs. That's what made Rain so good is he
he was able to remember. We always used to laugh

(46:03):
because he had this look on his face that he'd
give to me that would make me break every time.
And by the way, it's like his face didn't even move,
but like some energy came out and I would laugh
every time. He would do this like really funny, kind
of like dumb face at me, and I would laugh
every time, and it's funny. It's almost like he, of
all people, made the lines feel like improv Him and Steve,

(46:26):
I think made the lines feel the most like they
were improving. You know, you're a part of my favorite
moment of shooting ever. People always asked me, what's the
hardest you ever laughed on set? Without a doubt, it's
when you sat on his lap. When you sat on
his lap and his improv with you. I think you
can see it on the out takes, right, it's the

(46:46):
funniest And by the way, to your point again, you're right,
they always went to you for a button because any
time they went to me, for a button and Steve
was doing improv. I was not there physically not. I
remember Matt Stone going just just let me know, are
you gonna be there? And I was like no, because
I would laugh so hard that I had to walk
off sets. You were diving into the entryway office and

(47:08):
I was just the most unprofessional, and they would you
were doing such good work, and he said something about
like attaching balloons to you or something, and they went
to me and I was like, dude, don't do it
I'm only going to fail you. And that was one
of the only times that I just literally gave up
on doing my job. And then he pretended that his
legs were asleep. Yeah, but his voice changed when you

(47:31):
sat on his lap. Well, that's that's the thing that
I always that I always say to people was and
it was right in my ear. It was right in
my ear. And he I would go, kill what would
you like a little and it was like this inhalation
of air. Jeez, I didn't know you were going to
ask me that, and he goes, well, thank quicker like that.

(47:54):
And remember when he started banging his head out on
the glass. Oh that whole improp And I remember God
bless Steve. He used to get so frustrated, So I'm
not really but like, I know, I was a paint
in the aster room because I would laugh so hard
and some of if he'd be doing the most genius
stuff and I'd be in a two shot with him
ruining the take and he was like, come on, man,
maybe don't laugh on this one. So nice about it.

(48:15):
But also it was like, I'd like to go home
and see my kids. I'd like to get out of here. Yeah, um, writing, acting, directing,
is there one you prefer? That's a good question. I
don't know. I think yeah, I think acting was always
I think because it was the first, there's something I
really love about it. I think that there's elements to

(48:37):
acting being more fun because you don't have the weight
of responsibility of any kind. Like turning into script you
have the responsibility I hope this doesn't suck, and directing
you have all the responsibilities, which can be terrifying. But
by the way, you don't want to suck being an
actor either. But I don't know. I guess that it's
once you've gone to you know, the whole behind the

(48:59):
camera idea and you see how the sausage is made
you realize how I think writing and directing made me
a better actor and vice versa. You know everybody. I
remember always getting awards. People would always be like in
thanks to the crew and whatever, and we had the
greatest crew of all time. And I think that that
taught me to look back on all the things I

(49:21):
loved movies and television or whatever, and realized that for
every moment you remember watching and loving, there were three
to six people who made that moment exactly happen at
that exact time, and it was magic, from props to
camera to the set design. Like I said, like I
look back on the Office and realized, like you said
that that geography thing really blew my mind because it

(49:44):
feels like that that that set design was so purposeful anyway,
that kind of thing. I don't know if that answered anything, No,
I think so people always ask how did I get
into directing or writing? And it's like, because I went
to the best film school ever, which was Office, and
you learn what's good. I think my taste level became

(50:07):
solidified on that show, like I see what's possible now
and everything I do. Um. I've said this before that
I never would have directed and rewritten A Quiet Place
if it wasn't for Greg, because I remember him saying
to me one day, don't look at this as a comedy.

(50:30):
Just be in the moment, right you do. Your character
doesn't know he's funny. We get to we get to decide, right,
So we're not making a comedy. We're just telling the
best story we can. And if you end up laughing, great,
if you cry at a moment with Pam, great, but
just tell the best story. So when I got offered

(50:54):
Quiet Place, I was like, I don't know anything about horror,
and I remember actually sitting down before I wrote the
script and said, I'm not going to make a horror movie.
I'm not gonna make a genre movie. I'm gonna tell
the best story I can about this family. And if
you end up getting scared at moments, that is on you,
because it's only my job is only to tell you

(51:16):
the most concise and strong story I can, and then
every emotional thing that you feel is coming from you
and how you're experiencing it. And I remember I never
would have had the guts to do that, because I
would have said the same thing I said to Greg
that day, which is like, I don't want to mess
this up. I want to make sure I'm really funny
in this scene for you, and he was like, no, no no,
I don't want you to be funny. I want you

(51:36):
to tell the best story and let other people decide
whether the scene is funny. And I was like, mind
blowing stuff. That is very, very smart. But The Quiet
Place isn't a comedy. No, you should see it before
we do an interview. Shoot. All right, guys, we're gonna

(52:04):
take a break right there. I'm gonna save the rest
of John's interview for a very special occasion down the line,
because John is a very special boy. Thank you j
K for joining me. I have to admit you are
my number one, top, absolute favorite pain in the ass

(52:26):
in the world. Um, so congratulations on that. To all
of you listeners, thank you for joining me. We will
be back next time for another hilarious guest. So have
a fantastic week, everybody. The office. Deep Dive is hosted

(52:50):
and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer,
Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our associate
producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is Diego Tapia.
My main man in the booth is Alec Moore. Our
theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend

(53:11):
Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by Seth Olandsky.

(53:34):
I'm Sarah Wendell and for close to twenty years, I've
been a wildly recognized expert in the world of romance.
And I'm Alicia Rai, best selling author of over twenty
romance novels. Introducing I Heart's new romance podcast, love Struck Daily.
Every day we deliver a new love story straight to
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(53:56):
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(54:22):
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I'm in love with you. Hi, my name is Cassidy
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(54:43):
Dressed the History of Fashion, which is dedicated to investigating
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And we are so excited to bring you a brand
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of Fashion is available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

(55:03):
or wherever else you listen to your favorite shows. New
episodes trap every Tuesday and Thursday. Hey Dana, goodyear. Here.
Have you ever wondered how a true crime podcast like
Lost Hills gets made? How we unearthed secrets and tease
out the truth and deal with complicated characters while tackling
sensitive subjects like violence, trauma, and deception. Now's your chance

(55:27):
to find out. Join me and Jake Calpern, host of
Pushkin's Deep Cover podcast, on March sixteenth for a digital
conversation on true crime storytelling. Get your tickets now at
moment House dot com, slash d c l H that's
m O M E N t House dot com slash
d c l h