How to Be Enough as You Are with Scott Stabile

Scott Stabile’s journey towards self-acceptance and self-love began with a simple yet powerful realization. He learned to acknowledge the small actions in his daily life that reflected self-care and love. This awareness and acknowledgement of these moments of self-love allowed him to shift his mindset and energy towards self-compassion. Scott’s shares the importance of recognizing and appreciating the seemingly mundane acts of self-care, which ultimately lay the foundation for fostering a deep sense of self-acceptance and love.

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Embrace self-compassion and acceptance to transform your mindset and behavior
• Navigate the difficult emotions of envy and jealousy to unlock your personal growth potential
• Face difficult conversations that can lead to creating deeper connections
• Cultivate self-love and authenticity to live a more fulfilling life
• Manage overwhelming thoughts and emotions to find inner peace and clarity

To learn more, click here!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you ever feel like life is just one problem
after another. You finally feel like maybe there's a break,
and then bam, another problem. This is how it is
for many of us. But there is a better way
to respond, a way of responding that brings greater ease
into your life and returns some of the energy that
the problems drained from you. We are hosting a free

(00:20):
live masterclass on Sunday, March third, called Learn the Keystone
Habit to unlock energy and ease in your life. In it,
I will teach you how to tap into resources already
within you so that life feels less like a never
ending fight and more like an ever evolving dance. You
will learn the number one source of unhappiness that drains

(00:41):
your energy and keeps you feeling stuck, and a simple
mindset shift you can make right away so that life
doesn't feel like such a constant struggle. This will be
a live event and you'll have a chance to interact
with me and each other. I've really grown to love
these community events where we get to meet each other
and deepen our connections, and I hope that you can
become part of that. Go to oneufeed dot net slash

(01:04):
live to learn more and register for this free event. Again,
that's one you feed dot net slash live. I hope
to see you there.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Take the time to acknowledge the small things you're doing
throughout the day that are reflective of you caring for
yourself in a loving way. And the reason I recommend
that even if it's five seconds, even if it's ten seconds,
you're putting your hands on your heart and you're thinking,
this is me loving myself right now as I brush
my teeth.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Welcome to the one you feed throughout time. Great thinkers
have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes
like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you
think ring true. And yet for many of us, our
thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,
self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't

(02:00):
have instead of what we do. We think things that
hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent
and creative effort to make a life worth living. This
podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in
the right direction, how they feed their good Wolf, thanks

(02:35):
for joining us. Back on the show today is Scott Stabil,
whose inspirational posts and videos have attracted a huge and
devoted social media following. His Previous works include Just Love, Iris,
and the Lil Pet Hospital series. Scott also wrote the
feature film The Oogie Loves in the Big Ballroom Adventure.
He's a speaker and love advocate and runs day long

(02:57):
empowerment workshops nationally and internationally. Today, Eric and Scott discuss
his new book Enough as You Are.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Hi, Scott, welcome back, Hey Eric, Thank you so much. Man.
Happy to be here.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I was saying before we start, I'm not sure how
many times we've had you on, but it's.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Been least three, at least three, and.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
I don't know whether one of those was for like
a short episode or I don't know, but it's been
a number of times and I have always enjoyed it.
So when I saw you had a new book coming out,
I was thrilled to be able to get to have
you back on.

Speaker 5 (03:29):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
I so appreciate it. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah. So we'll start in the way to which you
are accustomed, which is I'm going to read that parable
and ask you what you think about it, and I
have no idea what you said any of the other times,
and probably no one else does either, So whatever, all right?
In the parable, there's a grandparent who's talking with a
grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves
inside of us that are always at battle. One is

(03:54):
a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery
and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which
represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the
grandchild stops think about it for a second. They look
up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins,
And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd

(04:14):
like to start off by asking you what that parable
means to you in your life and in the work
that you do.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, in this moment, as I'm hearing you recant that
what I'm feeling is the essence of the work I'm
doing the most right now, which is built around self
acceptance and self love. So for me, as I hear
the parable, it's loving the good wolf and the bad wolf,
understanding that no matter what is coming through, no matter

(04:41):
what compulsions, desires, thoughts, feelings, words, that is within our
power to show up for ourselves with love, with grace,
with compassion, And the more often we do that, I
find that the more inclined we are to make choices
that are more in line with love and kindness and

(05:02):
compassion and all of the quote unquote good Wolf ways
of being. Because for me, love is just energy, and
it's an energy that is alive within us and outside
of us, and it is a pure positive energy in
my experience, which means it is always in service to everything.
So I know that I'm human and that part of

(05:23):
my Can we swear on this show or I don't remember?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it happens to turn it into an
Andrew Dice Clay rematch, But in general, yes, occasional.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Okay, thank you, just so I know, yeah, okay, no,
But in general, it's understanding that sometimes we show up
like a jerk, you know, Sometimes we show up without compassion.
Sometimes we make choices that are clearly not the healthiest
for us. And can we still, rather than shaming ourselves

(05:59):
for these choices, is for these actions, recognize that shame
is not the thing that's ever going to lead to healing,
and that is within us to love ourselves no matter what.
So I want to love both wolves and trust that
by giving my love to both, I'm naturally going to
be energizing the good wolf more often.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
So I love that idea obviously of self love and
for me self compassion self love. Learning to do that
for myself, forgive myself has been one of the most
important things that I have possibly done for my own
well being, and it is a very difficult thing to
do at points, right. Absolutely, you know, it's interesting, like

(06:40):
if you read the science on affirmations, right, it appears
that affirmations seem to help the people most who don't
actually really need them because they kind of already believe
they're awesome. Absolutely, when you don't, a lot of this
stuff of trying to love our selves or be self

(07:01):
compassionate feels really really difficult. Like in my Spiritual Habits program,
self compassion is one of the core attributes because, like you,
I believe it underlies everything else that we do right
without it, when we don't live up to whatever it
is we're trying to do. And in my program, it's like,
you know, practice spiritual principles more in our lives, and
when we don't do that, if we don't have self

(07:23):
compassion as a base. We just have another thing to
feel bad about. And that's not the goal, absolutely, but
it is also the thing that most consistently people say.
I hear what you're saying, I know, and yet I
can't seem to feel it. The voices keep coming that
tell me I'm bad. The shame is embedded.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
You know.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
What I'm hoping is that you can, in five seconds
give us a tip that will dispel all of that
once and for all. If this, if that's in this book,
I'm gonna recommend it.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
I know it's a long term process, right, but I
would just love to hear when you must hear people
say the same thing to you, given how much you
write about self love and self forgiveness and self compassion.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, I mean, I agree with everything you're saying one
hundred percent. And for me, what it comes down to
often is just about bringing more honest awareness to the
choices I am making in my life and taking the
time to acknowledge those that are actually aligned with self love.
I think we take for granted a lot of the
things that we do for ourselves, and I'll give you

(08:32):
very basic examples, like brushing our teeth or cooking food,
that tastes good, or putting on clothes in which we
feel good moving through the world. Every time we're doing
these things, we're actually acting in alignment with self love.
We're taking care of ourselves in a very specific way.
And for me, one of my practices that has helped

(08:54):
me a lot is just not taking all of those
choices for granted, in part because I give a lot
of work on self love and I meet a lot
of people who tell me they don't know how to
love themselves, and I feel that we actually are loving ourselves,
we're just not acknowledging it. And so one thing I
would recommend to people is it may sound corny. I

(09:15):
fear it's gonna sound corny to some, but it has
helped me is just take the time to acknowledge the
small things you're doing throughout the day that are reflective
of you caring for yourself in a loving way. And
the reason I recommend that is then we're living even
if it's five seconds, even if it's ten seconds, you're
putting your hands on your heart and you're thinking, this
is me loving myself right now as I brush my teeth.

(09:37):
You know I could go through the day without doing that.
This is me loving myself right now as I prepare
this meal, this beautiful food for myself and for me.
What that naturally does, because I do see everything as energy,
and energy does generate momentum. The more we're carving out
these moments one, the less time we're mired in self

(09:58):
abuse and this idea that or not worthy. Even ten
seconds of connecting to the gratitude for care is ten
seconds less of I'm a piece of crap, right, and
that matters. And then also I feel like these choices
invite more opportunities for self love and self care because
in general, what we're committing to is the acknowledgment and

(10:21):
the intention around loving ourselves. I want to speak to
affirmations as well, because I'm someone who uses affirmations in
my life. But what I discovered for myself is what
you were speaking to. Is It's one thing to say
I love myself just as I am, But if that's
not my truth, if that's not what I'm actually feeling

(10:44):
my experience is what I'm feeling in that moment is
always going to trump the words that are just coming
out of my mouth. So I can't love myself with words.
If what I'm feeling inside is self loathing. But what
I can do in my affirmations and what I encourage
people to do, is to land on the most honest

(11:04):
statement that you can make. So if I can't honestly
say in this moment, I love myself as I am,
can I honestly say I am willing to love myself
as I am. I am willing to give energy to
the practice of self love and self care. And if
that feels honest, if that stands true in your body,
that is a statement. I feel like that will be

(11:26):
helpful because it also reflects self love. Even if you're
not able to say I love myself, being willing to
being willing to give energy to it is the same thing.
It's all about the energy of you getting in a
more harmonious relationship with yourself. Another thing I would say
to what you brought up is that it's never too

(11:47):
late with everything, not just with self love. I feel like,
if you've spent thirty years of your life mired in
self loathing, but there is a part of you right
now that wants to create a different relationship with yourself,
even if you don't know how, I do know that
it is always what you do from this moment on
that's going to matter the most, which is to say

(12:09):
that the choices you make, the practices you integrate, the
podcast you choose to listen to, the way you're choosing
to talk with yourself and be with yourself is going
to impact what you do from this moment on. And
in my experience, self love has proven to just to
be a skill, and like any other skill, the more

(12:31):
you practice at it, the better you become at it.
That's what I believe. So and the things I'm saying,
I feel like they can be applied to any sort
of spiritual presure, right, even beyond just self love. We're
talking about the journey of growth, the journey of healing, right,
And I also want to speak to the shaming aspect
because that's a very real thing that happens for many

(12:54):
of us on this spiritual path. We end up judging
ourselves against a more evolved version of ourselves that doesn't
yet exist. So we're judging ourselves against a fictionalized version
of who I am. And I've done this a thousand
times over as someone who's been on a spiritual path,
was in a cult, was chasing enlightenment and was continuously

(13:17):
shaming myself because I wasn't living the life of the
enlightened version of Scott that has never existed and may
never exist. And part of and I think this is
the essence of a lot of the writings in Enough
As You Are. What I've come to learn is that
it is within me to honor my humanity, which is

(13:38):
to say, to remind myself consistently that I am human
when I am not showing up and making healthy choices,
when I'm not looking in the mirror and thinking I
look beautiful, but looking at all the spots I'd like
to change. All of this is a part of our
human conditioning, right, and so I'm less interested in transcending

(13:58):
my conditioning, though I am interested in that as much
as possible, also understanding I may never transcend some of
the conditioning because it's so deeply rooted. But even beyond that,
what I'm interested in is offering myself grace when I'm
unable to transcend my conditioning, to remind myself this too
is human. Every other human being on the planet with

(14:21):
a human mind has been conditioned in similar ways and
is struggling with all of these same things, and it
is entirely okay that you are where you are with them.
So instead of doing the shaming thing or feeling I
don't look at my spiritual path as pressure anymore to
achieve something. So I'm not putting that pressure on myself

(14:43):
that you were speaking to and then feeling disheartened by
my inability to show up the way I would want to. Instead,
the practice that I'm doing is I'm approaching all of
this with a bit more curiosity and a bit more nonchalance.
And so for me, what that looks it's like is
when my mind is doing its insane dance yet again,

(15:04):
trying to tell me I'm a piece of crap and
worthless and all the things that my mind wants to
tell me. Instead of internalizing those things the way I
used to do, I kind of look at it now
with this, Oh, okay, that's interesting that this is what
my mind is doing right now, and like why is
my mind doing? Like bringing a sense of curiosity and

(15:24):
a sense of nonchalance and an understanding that every other
mind on the planet is doing this also has helped
me feel a lot more okay with my own insanity.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
There's so many different things you said in there that
we could touch on. I mean the phrase that and
I don't know where I heard it, but what we
practice we strengthen is a really powerful idea, and you
touched on that in all aspects, right, every little thing.
And this idea of looking at the ways we are
practicing self love is interesting because I had a conversation

(15:56):
I went on. I joined a hiking group, and I
went on a hiking conversation of that day and just
ended up with a PhD in psychology next to me, amazingly,
and so we could have talked for thirty hours. But
one of the things we ended up on as we
were talking about, you know, how people actually change behavior,
and we landed on this topic he believes is fundamental,

(16:20):
which is around identity. It shows up in behavior change
literature of many different kinds. The example that's often gived
is let's say you're trying to quit smoking and you're
standing outside and somebody comes up and offers you a cigarette.
If you say no thanks, I'm trying to quit, that's
one thing. If, on the other hand, you say no thanks,
I don't smoke, that's an identity you've taken on as

(16:43):
a non smoker. Now, the obvious problem with that is
what if you're not living into that identity? Right, So
it's like, all right, I want to see myself as
a person who moves my body every day. Like that's
actually how I see myself. I'm a person who moves
my body every day and at every opportunity because I
know it's good for me. But if I'm not doing that,

(17:03):
I mean, I've got years of sort of reinforcing that behavior.
It's an easy identity, but very early on, you know,
may not be doing that. Or if you're trying to
quit smoking, you may be sort of successful and sort
of not successful, so your identity doesn't quite line up.
And he said something very similar to what you said.
He said, what I do with patients is I try

(17:25):
and focus on the ways in which whatever they are,
and however small they are, that they are living that identity.
If you want to be a non smoker, and you're
trying to say I don't smoke as an identity, look
at the times you didn't smoke, don't look at the
few times you did, Like, look at the progress that's
being made. And you were saying the same thing with
self love, Right, if I focus on what these small

(17:47):
things are that I'm doing to love myself. Then I
can begin to take on the identity of somebody who
does love themselves, and I will continue to act more
and more into that identity over time. And so I
love the way you said that because I think it
really lines up a lot with the importance of identity,
because it's an important thing. You know, we can have

(18:07):
the identity that I'm someone who hates myself, right. I
mean many people do, right, right, you know, I'm neurotic,
I'm any number of different.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Things, absolutely, And I think one of the reasons that
the focusing on the times you are showing up the
way you want to be, or focusing on the times
you are loving yourself, one of the ways in which
that's helpful is because it is much harder for your
mind to convince you of something when you are showing

(18:35):
up the opposite way, which is to say, we become
more aware of the ways in which our mind is
lying to us about who we are.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
You know.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
As an example, like with the last book, Big Love,
as soon as I signed the contract, there was ten
minutes of joy and then panic, like I have to
deliver this book, am I going to be able to
write it, and literally I had ten minutes of whoo.
And I was showing up every day to work on
the book, and my mind was still saying, you're never
going to do this, But day in and day out,
I was doing it. And what I was noticing is

(19:09):
my mind was continuing to get quieter because it couldn't
convince me that I can't do the very thing that
I am showing up and doing every day, which is
transfer that to self love or to any other thing.
If each day you're giving a little energy to focusing
on the ways you are showing up, it's going to
be harder for your mind to make the case to
you that you don't know how to love yourself or

(19:31):
that you hate yourself, because those things are not true.
They are products of the mind. And it is only
when we are committed to believing our thoughts that we
get locked into these lies. And so another practice for
me that has helped me come to a better place
with myself is really, and I know you've talked about
this a lot on your show, the idea of bearing

(19:52):
witness to our mind and bearing witness to our thoughts
really really internalizing the truth that we we are not
what we are thinking, We are not our minds. It
is possible to create that detached separation. The metaphor I
love the most is become the sky and allow your
thoughts to be the weather. The sky is expensive enough

(20:14):
to hold whatever's happening, whatever insane thoughts are playing through
our mind. When you're bearing witness, you're not becoming any
of it. And what that creates for me is distance
from those self loathing thoughts and those self abusive thoughts,
and it allows me to look at them with a
bit more curiosity and nonchalance because I'm not them. And
I think a lot of people don't know that they

(20:35):
really believe everything that's happening in their minds when so
much of it is untrue.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, to be able to do that is a profound
practice and is a beautiful thing to do. What I
have noticed, and I've had some of this recently, is
that I can do that when the emotional scale and
the thought scales around like a three to a four
or a five. Maybe even I can handle a six
on a good day if I'm my best. But once

(21:02):
it's up at like eight or nine, that separation feels
almost impossible. It's so overwhelming. And I love that you
talk in the book some about distraction or numbing right,
because I think that in a program I teach called

(21:23):
Circle of Connection, one of the things we explore is
working with difficult thoughts and emotions. And I created probably
an overly complicated flow chart, but there's a point in
it where you go, I give up, Like I've done
everything that I've tried to be the sky, I've tried
to work with my thoughts. I've tried to think about
what's true and what's not true. I give up. Can
I find some non destructive distraction? You know? And I

(21:47):
think we're often told, like you just sit with whatever
you're feeling, And I think that's good advice in general,
like feel what you're feeling. But there are times that
we don't have it in is to do it. We
just don't and being willing to pull the ripcord into
another frame of mind somehow. Again, I encourage non self destructive,
but sometimes self destructive might be all you got in
your bag right now. But you talk about a doing

(22:10):
that in your own life, and you also talk about
forgiving yourself when you do do it in a way
that maybe doesn't fully align with the choices you want
to make. Say more about that.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, it's such a great point you're bringing up, because
sometimes even with all the tools that you and I
and probably many of the listeners have in our toolkits,
tool baskets.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Tool belt, much of it. No one talks about a
tool belt much anymore.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, and our tool belt, even with all those things,
sometimes the mind takes over and for me, the words
I come back to in that moment when I know
that I'm just in it and there's nothing I'm going
to do. You're right, I can't become the sky in
this moment. I really go to one of my favorite mantras,
which is this too shall pass. That is one of

(22:56):
the only things that offers me any sense of peace
in this moment is just knowing it's not going to
last forever. Yep, so I'm just gonna have to ride
it out. And then as far as numbing or escaping,
I used to judge myself so harshly when I would
check out, and I really don't anymore, and I check
out a bunch if I need to, and I don't

(23:17):
even feel the need to forgive myself for it. It's
not even something that needs to be forgiven. It's really
just something that I need not shame myself for the
way I used to recognize that this world is so
intense and so violent and so overwhelming, and there is
so much information and opinions and news coming at us

(23:41):
from every direction all the time. I do not believe
there's a person on the planet who can experience it
without checking out whatever that checkout looks like for you,
you know. And so yeah, I don't think i'd be around.
I think I'd be in a cave somewhere if I
couldn't do my Netflix binges and whatever else it is

(24:02):
that I do to just forget about things. I think
it's totally okay. And part of that, again is coming
back to this idea that we don't have to be
making the healthiest choices for ourselves all the time in
order to be worthy of our love. Right. That's some
misguided conditioning that we've grown up with and taken on

(24:24):
so many of us, that like our worth is predicated
on something other than the fact that it's inherent right,
or that we are lovable simply because we're born lovable,
not because of the choices we're making, or because of
our looks, or how great our family is, or any
other thing, when you really come to understand. And again,

(24:44):
I don't know how to get someone to understand this.
I don't know how I came to understand this other
than probably the commitment to loving myself, my commitment to
not listening to the voices of shame. And suddenly, gradually,
over time I embraced generally this idea that I am
a worthy human being, period, And no matter how my

(25:08):
mind wants to tell me otherwise, every baby born on
this planet today is as worthy as every other baby,
Every human being dying on this planet today is as
worthy as every other human being in my experience, in
my understanding. And so why would I not be a
part of that worthiness story? Like why would I be

(25:29):
the one person who is not worthy when I see
every other being as worthy? And what that does for
you when you really start to inhabit that sense of worth,
that sense of enoughness, is it allows you to move
through the world with much more openness, much more expansiveness.

(25:50):
And then I believe that what you invite from that
place into your life is wholly different than when you're
moving through the world energetically shut down and believing that
you're a piece of crap who doesn't deserve love or
doesn't deserve these things.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
There's a real nuance in this, right, Let's apply it
to checking out or escaping and numbing. Right, Yes, on
some level, there is an understanding of of course I
have to check out, everybody does sometimes, and there's also
a recognition, perhaps that the ways I'm checking out aren't
actually restoring me in any way. Right, you know, I'm

(26:50):
actually checking out in a way that doesn't do what
the purpose of checking out is, which would be to
allow me to come back less for as old then
I left.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Right, Well, then checking out would have a different definition
for me than numbing or escaping, because I feel like
when we're numbing or escaping from what it is we're feeling,
that thing is always going to be there on the
other side of the numbing and escaping, Right, that's speaking
to what you're saying. Because I'm not doing anything about it.
I'm just like smoking pot right now and watching Netflix.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, which is fine sometimes exactly, I mean, yeah, it
is okay, And and this is the holding the both thing.
If I do that all the time, then nothing changes, right,
And so I love this idea in Buddhism of like
true refuge and false refuge. You know, true refuge is

(27:45):
things that bring you back more restored. False refuge are
things that just check you out for a while and
you come back and everything's exactly the same as it is. Yeah,
we all need both, right, We all need both of
those things, you know. So what I'm looking at is
how can I and all this is without judgment and shame?

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Of course?

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Do I need to be adjusting that balance? Am I
numbing more than is useful for me in being the
person that I want to be. There's a phrase that
has been going through my mind as I've been reading
your work, and it goes through my mind very often
because I feel like I'm somebody who's holding sort of
two things at once. And nobody has summed this up

(28:25):
better than the great Zen teacher Suzuki Roshi, who said
you're perfect exactly the way you are, and you could
use a little improvement. And I love that line because
both those things are absolutely true, and if I don't
have both of them, it's problematic. If I only think

(28:47):
I need improvement, then I'm going to be trying to
improve out of a sense of shame and unworthiness and
less than this. And that may provide fuel for a while,
but it's fuel that eventually gunks up the whole engine
and everything turns crappy.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Absolutely so if I don't have the self love, if
somehow I were able to be I'm perfect exactly as
I am. I suppose if you could actually inhabit that
one hundred percent fully, you would probably be okay. But
given that, I think part of our role in this
world is to live according to our values, right Like
I want to live according to my values, which means

(29:22):
I do need a little bit of improvement and I
need to love myself, and I just I find that
balance a really like many many things that we talk about,
a really nuanced thing. In the same way of should
I try and eliminate those negative thoughts? Should I try
and listen to them? The answer is, at different times
a little of all of that.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Absolutely, you know. For me, there's always value I think
in looking at the choices you're making and how those
choices are making you feel and are affecting your life,
and as much as possible, direct yourself into choices that
have you feeling more meaning, more connection, more love in
your life, you know, more wholeness, and start eliminating the

(30:02):
choices that are depleting you and have you feeling like
crap and disconnected one hundred percent. You know, I'm someone
who's a major processor, you know, but I have fun
with it, Like I'm always looking at why I'm doing
what I'm doing, and like, yeah, for me, that is
it's it's entertaining, it's I'm curious about that.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, And it's part of who you are.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
It's part of who as you are, absolutely exactolutely like.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
That self love, Like that's who I am, Okay, exactly.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
But what's so important about what you said too, is
like if we can get in the practice of not
doing any of this with shame, It's like, if you're
numbing and it's in an unhealthy way, that isn't going
to serve you, there's still no need to shame yourself
for that choice. And that's really the practice I'm really
focused on in my life so much now is understanding

(30:53):
no matter what choices I make, I can be a
voice of love for myself and by doing so, it's
not to justify my actions. I don't believe it takes
away in any way from the possibility of making healthier
choices down the line. It just allows me to live into. Ultimately,

(31:15):
what I've discovered is that one of the things I
desire more than any other thing, which is to be
in a good relationship with myself. Because if you're in
a loving relationship with yourself, if you know you've got
your back, if you know you're going to be there
no matter what, you're likely to feel so much freer
to take risks in your life, to fail, to be rejected,

(31:40):
to make choices that are in alignment with your heart,
because you know that, no matter what happens, rather than
being a voice of shame on the other side of it,
you're going to be a voice of compassion and love
on the other side of it. And so if I
know that my relationship is solid with myself, it matters
much less what choices I make because I know that

(32:01):
I'm going to be there for myself no matter what.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Does That make sense, It one hundred percent does. And
if shame actually was an effective agent for change, you
probably would have very little addiction in the world. Right,
Like you know, I mean, it's the engine that derives it,
right Now there are things that cause it that are
not shame based, right, traumas and all that different stuff.
But the engine that drives addiction is shame, you know,

(32:27):
and it tends to be the engine that drives most
of the choices that we make that we don't want
to be making. Yes, that very thing. I love that idea,
which is, like I think you said, you know, I
absolutely have my back. We've interviewed a guy named Aziz
Gazapura and I've been on his show, and he has
a phrase like be on your own side, and I
love that because you can always be on your side.

(32:49):
You can always have your back, and you can have
that and you can look at the choices you make
and evaluate them and say, oh, I would like to
do more of this or less of that, while at
the exact same moment being one hundred percent on your
side having your own back, And that can sometimes again
is a nuanced thing to sort out, but it is

(33:09):
the way, and my experience is sustainable change in both
our well being and acting according to our values, that
both those things happen best in that fertile soil.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Absolutely. I mean, I've never shamed myself into healing and
I have often loved myself into a better place of being,
into a more healed place of being. And for those
of you listening who are thinking, and I know there
are some of you like, well, I don't have my
back like self love, It's very easy to say you
can always have your back. But if you're someone who's

(33:41):
like I don't know how to have my back, I don't.
I'm judgmental of myself, I'm critical. You know, small steps
like for me again, I really love the word willingness
because for me, willingness is an invitation when we're not
able to show up in the place, but we have
a general energetic intention about being there. Like are you

(34:03):
willing to have your back? I would grab a sheet
of paper. What would that look like to you to
have your back? Right down? Very specific things like when
I have my back, it looks like this, or if
I were to have my back, it would look like this.
Make a list for yourself, and then from that list,
start integrating some of those practices as best you could.

(34:25):
Maybe it looks like having your back after a long
day of work. It might look like preparing yourself a
beautiful cup of tea and being very intentional about it.
Maybe it might look like sitting for ten minutes staring
at a wall in total silence. These are little examples
of how we can go about taking care of ourselves
in tangible ways that actually matter. They're actually impactful. So

(34:48):
I really encourage anyone who goes to a place of well,
I don't know how to do that, and I can't
do that, and I haven't done that, to really ask
yourself generative questions. Questions that are yes and no because
your fear, your insecurity is going to take you to
a know, but a question that generates the invitation to
look at how you can go about doing it, Like

(35:11):
what would it look like to have my back? How
can I go about having my back in a more
proactive way in my day to day living? Those questions
are an invitation for responses that align with the yes
that you're seeking.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Let's change directions a little bit here, because you've got
all sorts of stuff in this book on this topic
of you know, kind of focusing sort of on the
self love piece. You have a line that I really love,
which is you can't paint your self portrait with someone
else's hand.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, what do you love about that line?

Speaker 1 (35:40):
What it is is it's like many statements that once
you hear them, something becomes extraordinarily clear, right. And what
becomes for me in that statement extraordinarily clear is oh, yes,
if I'm going to paint my self portrait, who else
could do it? It's a self portrait, right, It's an
obvious like, oh yeah, okay, well only I can do that.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
If someone else is painting something, it's not my self portrait,
it's their portrait of me, right, which is a completely
different thing than my self portrait. So I love it
because it's a sort of like when you hear the
wolf parable, you kind of immediately get it. You're like, oh, yeah,
my choices matter. Right in that line, it becomes very clear, like, oh,
my image of myself can only be generated truly by me.

(36:22):
Now I may be borrowing other people's images, I may
be looking at other portraits that have been painted, but
at the end of the day, it's mine to paint
for me.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
It speaks a lot to conditioning. I'd say a lot
of the work I've been doing the last few years too,
is really looking at what responses are conditioned responses and
what are authentic responses, and as much as possible. When
I recognize that I'm aligning with just a conditioned way
of being that doesn't even feel necessarily true to who

(36:51):
I am right now or may never have felt true
to who I am? Then do I have the courage
to align myself with what feels more true, even if
by doing so and sharing that I might get judged
more harshly because it's outside the bounds of what we've
considered to be okay in our society, I might be misunderstood,

(37:11):
I might be rejected, And for me, part of this path,
this journey, should you choose to take it in a
more healing consciousness way, is looking at what is real,
what is true inside of me, and understanding One of
the most liberating moments I had years ago was when

(37:32):
I had the realization that no matter what choice I make,
I'm going to be judged by other people. And that
realization felt really heavy in the moment of it, because
it was like, my god, we are all so judgmental,
we're all criticizing each other all the time, and it
feels heavy to know that you can't do anything without
being criticized. But a few moments later, I'm like, wait

(37:53):
a minute, That is the most liberating realization I could
possibly have, because what that means is, if I choose
to live in this restrictive box of conditioning, I'm going
to be judged. Or if I live in the full
expansiveness of my truth and freedom, I'm going to be judged.
And knowing that both those choices are going to lead

(38:13):
to judgment, why would I ever choose this restrictive box.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, because the people were being judged by in the
restrictive box are the people closest to us at that time. Sure,
that's why that choice can often seem like the more
appealing choice. But you're absolutely right that judgment's coming from anywhere.
I use this example just yesterday. So hopefully these episodes
don't get released right on top of each other, but
it's top of mind for me, and it speaks to
exactly what you are saying. It also speaks to the

(38:40):
obviousness of you can only payt your own self portrait.
You know, for a long time, Ginny and I went
back and forth between Atlanta and Columbus. Her mom was
in Atlanta Alzheimer's, my mom was in Columbus and other things,
And when we were in Atlanta, my mom was unhappy,
and when we were in Columbus, her mom was unhappy,
and that caused me a lot of strain until one
day I went, wait, it's impossible that one of them
is not going to be happy. I can't make them

(39:01):
both happy, like, literally cannot do it. YEA, what a freedom? Yes,
right now, I'm not saying I didn't still try and
think about their needs and who needed what and when
they needed it. But I was able to just let
go of an insoluble problem.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
And in the same way for you, who we're talking about,
being judged is an insoluble problem. Right, It's going to happen.
You are going to be judged by the people around you.
And you know, again, given that point, wouldn't I rather
be living truer to who I really am?

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (39:34):
And I think the reason that choice sometimes feels harder
is that the people right around us are people who
are closest to us currently are the ones who will
judge the choice to break out of the box.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Well, that's why it takes so much courage.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, once you're out of the box, then it's a
different story. But getting out of that box does take
a tremendous amount of courage, and even.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
When you're out of the box, like I'm not going
to pretend to be someone who's always living in my
authentic truth. I would say I'm more authentic than I've
ever been, and that continues to grow. And sometimes I
coward in my fear. Sometimes I make a choice that
is probably more condition because I don't want to feel
the backlash. I don't want to be judged. I'm not
in the mood for it in that moment, and that's

(40:16):
part of this journey as well.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
There's two lines that you wrote that I really love
about the future, which is also informed by the past,
and you say, do not limit yourself based on past realities.
And you also say I will not set myself up
for a future I don't want by convincing myself it's
the future I'm going to get. I loved both of those.

(40:40):
They're twins to me in a way.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, I think I just think we do ourselves such
a disservice. I know I've done myself such a disservice
looking at my life through the lens of my past
and using my past as a means to prevent me
from moving forward. In alignment with my heart instead of
as a means to support me in moving forward in
alignment with my heart. I could look at let's say

(41:02):
I submitted a screenplay that got rejected ten times, you know,
and so I'm working on a screenplay now, and my
mind is going to tell me you've already been rejected
ten times, like this isn't going to work for you,
Like why are you even bothering? My mind's going to
come up with a whole host of reasons why I
shouldn't do this. I could use my past to prevent

(41:22):
me from continuing to write and continuing to try to
share my writing in a bigger way. Or I could
look at my past and say, well, wait a minute,
I have the experience of trying this ten times, and
the experience of those ten times is fueling what I'm
doing right now, and with every time, why there's no
reason to believe I'm not getting closer to what my

(41:43):
goal is, Right, It's like, how do you want to
frame your past? And for me, if I catch myself
using my past to limit me, I know I'm doing
a disservice to myself and it's not necessary, right and so,
and the same thing about the future. So often we're
not doing things because we're so afraid of how it's
going to end up looking in the future. We're always, well,

(42:06):
not always, but we're often going to worst case scenarios.
And it's those worst case scenarios that prevent us from
even taking the first step toward creating the reality we
want to take, because we're certain we're just going to
flounder and it's going to explode. Right. So, for me,
it's about recognizing that there are a whole host of

(42:27):
thoughts we can give our energy to that are not
doing us any good. And the moment we have awareness
that we're locked into those thoughts is the moment we
have an opportunity to either reframe them, create different thoughts
around them, or just think about something.

Speaker 5 (42:43):
Entirely different that has nothing to do with them.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
I would encounter this with coaching clients a lot. They
would come in and you know, by the time you
hire a coach to help you change behavior, you've probably
failed at changing it a bunch of times. Right, that's
not your first choice, right, you know, sort of the
last resort, like, oh god, I'm got to hire a coach.
So they've tried many times and haven't been successful, or

(43:33):
they've been successful for a little bit, and so there's
a story there which is like, I can't do this.
I'm not going to be able to do it, and
so we'll get off to a good start and their
brain will be saying, yeah, you've started before, you never
can stick with it, which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy
if you're not careful, right. And so there's a real
art in doing exactly what you said, which is like, well,
we're going to talk about and learn from what didn't

(43:55):
happen before. B you're a different person than you were then.
Exactly you're not the same person. And see we're going
to bring new resources to bear that you didn't have before.
And so we can all apply that same thing to
whatever it is, like you said, you know it's a screenplay,
whatever it is, which is saying, oh, I'm going to
learn from what happened. I'm going to recognize that I'm

(44:17):
not the same person. Yes, ideally I've changed and I've grown.
And see I can use that energy that's telling me
that to ask myself, well, what else could I get
now that would support me in doing what I want?
What are other resources I could avail myself of that
would make me more likely to be able to do
this thing in the future. And so it can be

(44:40):
helpful to reflect on those things to learn and change,
but not to predict the future with absolutely.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
You sound like a very good coach.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Every once in a while. Every once in a while,
i'd hire you. All right, Well, let me know. So,
I want to talk about jealousy envy. They show up
a number of times throughout the book. You say you're
sort of a jealous person, You're sort of an envious person.
I'm going to ask you to rethink your labels about yourself. No,
I actually don't think you say that. I don't actually

(45:12):
think you say I'm a jealous person. I think you
say I often have or you know where my mind is, Yeah,
my mind is yeah. Yeah. So tell me more about
those energies in your life and how you've learned to
work with them more usefully.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
They are two of the most uncomfortable energies for me anyway,
My mind can be incredibly envious of everyone. For everything
I've learned in the past couple of years, just how
jealous my mind can be. Yeah, you like to think
that you're beyond something, or that something isn't as heavy,
and then you're handed a circumstance it shows you, Oh no, honey,

(45:46):
you're not even close to me beyond this. You're every
bit as insane as you were.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
What my therapist said about that, because I was asking
recently about this, because I had this sort of like
I thought I was past this, right, and he said,
when you're dealing with these deeply conditioned, traumatic sort of
things that are driven out of that, He's like, you're
never fully past it. What happens is you can handle it,

(46:14):
it doesn't get brought up in you. You can handle
more and more circumstances without it coming up, but there
will always be some circumstance triggered enough that it's still there.
And I thought that was a really useful way to
think about it, instead of thinking, oh, I thought I
was beyond this, I'm not. All this work I've done
doesn't mean anything because I handle lots of circumstances way

(46:37):
better than I ever did. Absolutely, And when the antie
gets high enough, oh.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, life's there with a little treat for you.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
I like the way I'm in relationship with my envy
and jealousy more than I've ever been, which is to say,
you know, with envy. However, many years ago, I was
talking to a good friend. He got a great job,
promotion and a lot more money, and I knew he
had been working for this for a long time, and
I was genuinely really happy for him for a minute.

(47:10):
I mean, there was genuine happiness I was.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
I got the word congratulations out shut it down.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
And then exactly and then my mind started to go
to that place of envy. Just like he makes a
lot more money, he's a lot more success, all these
stories that my mind was coming up with. What I
was doing at that time in my life when envy
would surface, was try to pretend it wasn't happening, you know,
like just I'm not being envious right now, Like this
whole ridiculous attempt at denying what is happening in a

(47:39):
big way in my body and in my mind right
you know, we try to push it down, and I
think we all probably have the experience those things we
try to push down or put in the dungeon behind
a closed door, they just make that much more noise
pounding on the door. So I'm really in the practice
in my life now more and more of just inviting
it all in. And when I'm feeling envious now, I

(48:01):
don't spend a second trying to deny it anymore. I
acknowledge it, like I'm not like speaking it to the
person necessarily, I'm doing this internally. But it's like, this
is me, this is just envy, and all human minds
are envious at times, and it's totally okay. And it's
also rooted in a host of fears and insecurities that

(48:23):
are real but they're not true. And for me, I
like the distinction between what feels real and what feels true,
because what my mind conjures so often feels real. It's
creating a physical response to an emotional response, but so
often it's untrue. When I'm really aligned with my heart center,

(48:44):
really connecting to love, that's when I feel most deeply
in my truth. And so that distinction for me is important.
But I welcome my envy to have a seat at
the table with everything else I'm feeling, even though I
don't like it. I don't think I'll ever like my envy.
It's why mildly uncomfortable, totally, But what I've come to
learn is I can love it still. I'm not going

(49:05):
to shame myself for being envious in moments. I'm just
going to come here, envy, You're okay, And then I
think there is a benefit in or there can be
if I'm able to get myself in this place of
really looking at, well, what exactly are you envying? Beyond
just like they have more money or they're more whatever,

(49:26):
It's like, what are you envying exactly? And is there
a way to foster more of that in your lived experience? Now,
if that's something you truly are desiring, how could you
go about bringing that into your life in a bigger way?

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Yeah? You know, envy and jealousy are emotions that do
feel so yucky and we think they're so undesirable that
we want to push them away. But like anything, you
can learn something there. You know. The other thing that
I found to be helpful is to go, all right, Okay,
if I'm going to envy that person for that thing,
I also have to look at what they're doing and

(50:02):
having to do and go through and do in life
in order to get that thing. Because I'm like, oh,
they have more money, and I'm like, I just want
more money of course I want more money. I want
more money, but that person may be doing a job
I don't want to do at all, you know, they
may be taking on more commitment and responsibility than I want.
So I think oftentimes we envy something because we see

(50:25):
the shiny side of it. Absolutely, it can also be
helpful to try and flip it around and go, well,
what's the not shiny side of it? What are the
other realities going on here? I mean, it's obviously, like
we all know that that's what's happening to us on
social media, right. We're being presented the shiny side, but
we're not seeing necessarily what the other pieces of that are.
And that's been really helpful for me. You know, like

(50:47):
I made a choice, you know, five years ago to
leave a really lucrative corporate career to do this, and
I get by, I'm okay, I'm fine, but I don't
have the money that I used to have or the
money I would have today in that job five years
I just don't. So when I start getting envious about money,
I have to go, well, if I could get that
money on my term's great, but on those terms, no, thank.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
You, Yeah, I hear you, man, like I look at
my life. I had a lot more money at different
times in my life than I do now. And I'm
also living a life that I want to be living
and I wouldn't trade it, I guess, is what I'm saying, right, Yeah,
you know, And I think what you're speaking to is
very important about the full picture. Taking in the full

(51:31):
picture sometimes helps us and also understanding. I think that
like jealousy, for me, it triggers that the place in
me that isn't confident about my worth right, that is
the wound that gets triggered. Like I am someone who
loves myself, I am someone who generally feels worthy, and
I also have the places inside where I lack self

(51:52):
worth and struggle with it. And things like envy and
jealousy they push that button so intensely, and that is
for me one of the hardest buttons to be with
to just sit with. It's painful, it feels gross, it
feels disgusting.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
It really does. And the shame follows for me very
quickly on those emotions, particularly like the jealousy side. You know,
Envy to me can be slightly more benign if I'm envious,
like and I can sort of reframe it and be like, oh, yeah,
you know, I do wish that my podcast career was
as successful as that person. Oh that does tell me

(52:28):
something about what matters to me. Okay, there's a way
that I can sort of work with envy in certain cases,
jealousy that is to me, like you said, it's far
more about core worth, you know, and that is the
yucky stuff. It's the yucky stuff, but everyone experiences it. Yes,
that is helpful for me when I'm going through stuff

(52:49):
like that, because what our shame wants to tell us
is we are especially disgusting because of our jealousy, and
our shame wants to communicate on some level like you're
the only one who's like this, who's feeling this in
this way. And I like to remind myself everybody feels
this to some degree. It's just part of the human experience.
There's nothing to be ashamed of here, and it's not

(53:10):
going to last forever. Yeah, until the next round comes
when you think you're over it. Right, We kind of
hit this before, but I want to hit it again
because I think it's a really important point. And you
said this line almost word for word earlier. So why
am I bringing it up again. I can't help it,
and it is that often the only comfort I can
find in despair is the understanding that it, like everything else,

(53:34):
won't last forever. I mean, I think that is such
an important idea. Literally, there are times that we're just
going to feel awful and that's okay, And in those
moments often the only solace for me, and I'm bringing
it back up because it resonates so strongly with me,
right is oh, yeah, this will sooner or later pass,

(53:57):
and actually even further to notice with in it being here,
that it's not always here. And what I mean by
that is like, let's say I'm in grief about something.
I might spend three four hours that day deep in grief,
and if you ask me how I'm doing, I would say, well,
I'm deeply grieving, but there were a bunch of hours
in there where I actually wasn't right right, where there

(54:19):
was actually a little bit of a break. That break
might have been ten minutes, it might have been three
or four hours. But not labeling our experience monolithically allows
us to see that, yes, grief in the broad sense
will fade over time, you will heal, but even within
now there are pockets of things. And it sort of

(54:40):
goes back to what we were talking about with self love,
like looking for or what are the ways I'm loving myself?
What are the ways that there's something other than grief
here right now? Not to deny it exactly, but to
simply say, oh, yes, my experience is always sort of changing,
even hour to hour, moment to moment.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, And we can trust that if there's always so
much more that exists in this reality than what we're experiencing,
and we can trust that if we're focused on only
one thing and that one thing is creating for us
a lot of internal misery or heartache or heartbreak, that
we are shutting ourselves off to a world of other

(55:21):
possibilities out there. And for me, when I remember that
it's just an invitation to do what you're speaking to
is like, well, wait a minute. Within this grief, there's
also been moments of connection and moments of laughter, and
if it helps to give energy to that beautiful and
also the idea of remembering that this too shall pass
can also serve us in making courageous choices instead of

(55:43):
putting them off. For instance, had this world ruin relationship
at the beginning of the year and ended it, and
prior to ending it was so scared about it because
we both fell hard for each other. I knew it
was going to be super painful, not only the conversation
but the fallout and the sorrow afterwards. And I reminded

(56:04):
myself preemptively, it's like, yes, that's all true, and it's
all going to pass. Just think about all the other
times you've been through something similar and it's painful and
heartbreaking and unbearable until it isn't. So not only remembering
this too shall pass when you're in the muck, but
even remembering it when you need to make a change

(56:26):
in your life and you're putting it off, putting it off,
putting it off because of the potential painful outcome of it,
knowing that these things don't last forever.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Similar to that topic, you have a line you say,
quit putting off the conversations you need to have.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
Oh boy, Yeah, what I just said speaks to that
as well, right yeah, yeah, because we all know, we
all do it, and we all know how relieved we
feel when we finally have the conversation.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Right yeah, yeah. A question I asked myself with lots
of different things like that. Basically, anything I don't want
to do, as I ask myself, I try and be
really honest, like will I ever want to do it?
And often the answer is never, because my brain will
tell me like, well it's not quite the right time
or maybe you could, you know, And I'm like, will
it ever feel like the right time?

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Never?

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Will I ever want to do this? And if the
answer is never, then I try and go well, then
just do it as quickly as you can, because if
it's going to be difficult whenever you do it, all
the time between now and you doing it is just
time that you're worrying about doing it. You could at
least cut that out. You can't cut out the difficulty
of the conversation, you can't cut out the fear, but

(57:34):
you can cut out the torment about it for the
next three months. Well you put it off, you know. Now, Again,
that doesn't always work because sometimes it takes a out
of summon the courage, right, Sometimes we just don't have
the courage to do it. I mean there's been plenty
of times in my life where that's been the case.
Like I just for whatever reason, it took me x

(57:55):
amount of time before I could do it because I
didn't have the courage and and be forgiving about that.
But that little trick there of like, well, I ever
want to do this often helps me get over the
hump on.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Those Yeah, I like that. And also, you know, I
think when we're focusing on the dreaded conversations, we're living
in the dread of what we imagine that conversation to
be and the potential fallout. And I think it can
be a good practice to go beyond with like focused
kind of visualization of if it's something you know you

(58:29):
need to communicate and you know that eventually you're going
to feel better by having done, so take yourself to
the place of feeling better. Maybe grab your journal and
write down all of the benefits that you can imagine
coming from having this conversation. So instead of living in
the dread, you're actually centering yourself in the reality of

(58:51):
what you're imagining will come from having had it, and
that will help you potentially generate the courage to have it.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Yeah, so can you walk us through maybe, And again
you can say I don't want to unearth all this
right now, it's too real and too fresh, but you
knew you had to have a difficult conversation about ending
this relationship, right, and so in that circumstance, what sort
of things would you visualize the positive that would come
out of it, knowing that it's not like you're gonna

(59:18):
have the conversation and you're gonna be like, Okay, thank god,
we all feel happy now, right, So how do you
do it in a situation like that where it's like,
I'm not quite sure I can forecast the benefit of
this one.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
You know what I actually did in that situation, Eric,
was I think I well, I know, I focused more
on what actually wasn't working, and so for me, the
benefits were that these things weren't going to be going
on in my life anymore once the relationship was over,
So it was a little more focused on the negatives

(59:49):
within the context of the relationship. It would no longer
be a part of my life anymore.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Yeah, that accomplishes the same thing.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Well, Scott, we're at the end of our time. I
have enjoyed it as always. You and I are going
to continue in the post show conversation, and there I
kind of want to talk about I'm going to read
just the beginning of the statement of what we're going
to try and talk about, which is let the violence
and pain in your world route you even more deeply
in your commitment to be kinder and love harder. I
want to explore that idea because we can look around

(01:00:21):
and see lots of violence and pain in our world,
and so how do we use that to do that
to make us actually better people? So we'll cover that
in the post show conversation. Listeners, we'd love to have
you join our community. You can get post show conversations
ad free episodes. We're going to be doing a community meeting.
There's all sorts of great stuff out there and we
really could use your support, So go to one feed

(01:00:43):
dot net slash join Scott again. Thanks so much, it's
such a pleasure. Until next time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Yeah for me too, brother, Thank you so much.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
Eric.

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