May 26, 2021 • 48 mins
Gary welcomes one of the best pure putters in history and PGA pro, Brad Faxon. Brad and Gary discuss Brad's recent best putters of all-time list, and Gary shares who he thinks belongs in the list of historical best putters.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Well bred. First of all, thanks for coming on our podcast.
You know, we're talking about putting, and I was fascinated
to see your list of the ten best patterns that
ever lived. And it reminded me of when I spent
some time with Justin Tucked, the football player, and now
we're talking about all time great football players, and he
said something very significant. He said, how do you determine
(00:29):
who are the best? And the only way you can
determine the best is the record book. And when I
look at your list, and I'd like you to tell me,
you know, just going over your list, what may you
decide on these guys, is your ten best patterns? And
then I'm going to have my answer to you. So
the list of anybody's top ten list, whether it's the
(00:52):
best putters, like I showed the best players of all time, Gary,
that the best golf courses that you your favorite courses,
if you make this list, there's a subjective this to
this right, everybody has their opinions. But I think for me,
there were a few things that I want to identify.
First of all, I made a mistake early by not
saying this is for p g A tour players. I
(01:14):
upset some of the ladies, and I didn't mean to
do that. I'm not an expert on women's professional golf,
but I know that they were very very uh grit.
Some great uh LPGA players are great putters. But for
the p g A Tour players, I wanted to say,
putting for importance is really one of the things on
the list. How many times did you win in a
(01:35):
whole put under pressure? And like you said about greatness
or superstar winning six majors if you if you were
a great putter, like someone like Morris Atowski, who won
several times on the PGA Tour, was noted to be
a great putter. He didn't win major championships. So I
wanted to have major champions in there. I wanted to
(01:56):
have players that weren't just young. I mean, there were
people that were pauled that I didn't have Jordan's speech
or um, let's say Jason Day on there, and I said, listen, um,
I want them to prove over the test of time.
There has to be some longevity to this. And there
were a lot of players that put it good for
just a few years. Fuzzy Zella, but he didn't put
(02:18):
great for a long time. Um, that's why this list
is hard to do. And and then I had some
preferences for players that I thought just really looked good
doing it. And after putting Tiger Woods first, I had
Ben Crenshaw and Sevy by Steros arguably two of the
best putters in history that did it for a long time.
But they just looked very good as they did it well.
(02:41):
Very good point. And uh, it's fascinating and to debate
on this particular subject is interesting for the people. And
you know, you've got to remember longevity, longevity in sport,
irrespective what sport it is. How are you judge great players,
how you judge great pat does in sport? Longevity has
(03:01):
an awful lot to do that many people, as you
correctly said, they come along and they put well for
a few years, and then you don't hear them again. Now,
you were very humble in your list, which obviously I
admire you for your your personality and your your the
fact that you're a humble, wonderful gentleman, and I've always
admired you. Nobody put it much better than you did.
(03:23):
How you remain so tall, I don't know you were
bending down so much. I thought you'd be five ft three,
but anyway, you hold so many many pats that and
Jack Nicholas look at the puts he hold too. When
you know, if people forget he were not only in
(03:44):
eighteen majors, were second nineteen times. You know you've got
to be some kind of a pudder to do that.
Arn O Parmer he had a very short career, the
only one majors for six years. But in those six years,
let me tell you he charged every poddy, had never
left a pat sort ever. He hold more five footas
than anybody that ever lived coming back amazing. So uh.
(04:08):
And doug Ford people, most golfer has never heard of.
Doug Ford. He won the PGA and the Masters at
a jab stroke. Casper jab I listened on that one
of the networks about a player missing a putty, said,
oh he jabbed it. Well, three of the three of
the ten best padders all jabbed the ball. They never
followed through at all. So it's not the stroke, it's
(04:30):
the field. It's the eye. It has that that little
feeling of how to put. It's a gift. It's a
gift you had it. So let's talk about that that
field or that you know, you call it a jab stroke. Um.
Today some players make call that a pop stroke, like
the brand Snedecker. But on on the list of the
top ten players that I chose, um, and if maybe
(04:53):
if we went even too the top twenty all time players,
there was only one of those players, and Raymond Floyd
would have been that one that used to maw putter.
He used his zebra putter for a long time, and
there weren't many mallet putters. You used to blade, Crenshaw
used to blade. Even now they call the ping putters blades. Um.
In today's world, if you look at the top twenty
five world ranking players, seventeen or eighteen of those players
(05:16):
are using mallet putters. But the putting statistics. Have you
looked at the stats since the last twenty years since
shot linked data, putting stats really haven't gotten better. You know,
you mentioned how the greens are in such a good
shape now they're like the pool table or a snooker table.
Why don't you think the the stats have gotten better now?
(05:39):
Does it have something to do with pin places being
on more slope. Well, that's a very debatable issue. Um,
I don't think personally, I don't think that the putters today,
other than Jordan's speech, I don't think they put it
as well as uh as Tiger Woods has been crunch
yours Balastro, says Bobby lack. Uh all these guys, I
(06:00):
don't think these guys today actually they hit the ball
much further. They can hit the ball in the rough
and still score. I think their grooves on the clubs.
I think the bunkers are all raked with a machine,
whether it's some back too or I mean, we we played,
we never had rakes. We raked with our feet. I
(06:22):
went to this vicretary of the British Open and said,
I love the British Open. Please, sir, can I donate
eighteen rates to this uh the British Open. He kicked
me out of his office. He said I was being
insolent because I said, in America they have rights. So
you know, you can't really say, I mean Tiger Woods
is putting stood out. There's no question Tiger Woods should
(06:47):
have won. I think, as I'm being repetitive now, you
should have won at least twenty five majors, at least
twenty five. There's no question that Tiger, which is the
most talented golfer that ever lived. Will his record be
that good? I I didn't know. Will he Will he
come back and win torments? I hope. So we're all
(07:07):
pulling for Tiger Wood. But what do you think, I mean,
why do you think tiger Why do you think he
petted so well? I think there's you talk about it factor.
I think on the putting green, there's something called the
will factor. UM. And I learned a lot from players
that were much better than me and more experienced. When
(07:27):
I first got out on the tour, I tried to
play with some of the best putters. And one of
the guys we haven't talked about that how to have
watched you growing up, was Mark McNulty, who I played
a lot with when I first turned professional. I knew
a lot of the South Africa's in the Rhodesians because
they worked with David Ledbetter back in the early eighties
when he was teaching Nick Price. UM. I got to
(07:47):
know Dennis Watson and Gavin Levinson and McNulty. And McNulty
had an old bull's eye. He had an interesting grip
where he had both his index fingers down the shaft
and kind of closed the face back and through But
he was one of the best putters I've ever seen
on bad green and when the Greens got worse, he
got better. And that doesn't make sense, doesn't But but
(08:11):
being great doesn't make sense either, because you can't think normally.
You have to think super realistically. And I think players
that played well putted well one majors, that traveled the
world like you did, they had something inside whether they're
born with it, learned and accumulated that over time. To me,
that's the most fascinating part about this game. Some of
(08:33):
it's explainable, some of it's just not. And we we've
all watched Tiger, haven't we, And and in the in
the in the years when he was winning his major championships,
it seemed like every week he was in contention every
put that he had to make. Like watching Jack or
like watching you, you knew the importance of them, but
you somehow could gather yourself together and make those puts.
(08:55):
And that's that's what you call the in factor. I
call the will. That's what McNulty had when the Greens
got worse. And how do we put those things together
for a long period of times? What really intrigues me, Yeah,
and the question you asked me, why why the status
are not better to day in spite of a debatedly
(09:16):
debatedly are better or though Bobby Jones and a lot
of guys padded with a blade patter, a little old
thin blade pattern and padded extremely well. But golf, you know,
I basically study genetics every day of my life, and
golf is very similar to genetics. You know a hell
of a lot about nothing that's right, that's what it's ready.
(09:37):
Golf is the most contradictory sport that exists. The swing
takes let's say one second, and they've probably been over
four million words written about that swing. It's you can't comprehend,
can you? No, you can't, you can't all I know
(09:57):
what you said, you can't. You can't an eyes that
you cannot describe it. But there's certain basic fundamentals and
I still think I know. I mean, I played, I
played with people like Tommy Armore, I mean before your
father was born even and also we played. I played
with Gens Derrison, wonderful golfers, wonderful golfers, and they they
(10:21):
were doing things, and they had a swing that was
absolutely marvelous. When you talk about uh, you know the swings?
What are the legends do the greatest players of all time?
I know, you know a friend of mine named Lucas Waald,
he's a great instructor. He carried for you in Houston
one year and he's he's studied the swing as much
as anybody, and he ironically did the top ten all
(10:44):
time great swings which you were on. Um. And it
was amazing how many of those top ten players swings
and how they were as potters too. Um. But I
think we have to learn from the greats and how
did they think? How did they feel? And the more
I learn, and Gary, um as I've becoming, you know,
known as it maybe a golfing putting instructor. Um. The
(11:06):
more I learned, the less I know. Really, but um,
I'm fascinated that more and more this is less about
what the putter does, going back and through about more
that is about how you prepare, how you think, how
you practice, and I think how you practice even to
go warm up to go play is different than what
(11:28):
you would practice on a week off. I think I
see one of the mistakes I see some man of
the modern day players is they're always using some kind
of a device to measure everything they do. And to me,
I think it's okay for a little bit, but they
start losing their feel their own fields. What do you
feel about that? Now you're a correct and one of
(11:51):
the things. But look, I always admire the young players
today as I've admired the young of the players of
the post. But one thing they've to stop. Bread, is
this a piece of paper and looking at a book
where to put? Now? Goodness, bread, you know they're not
better patters than existed in the past at all. In fact,
(12:12):
they might not be as good as the past. Nobody
ever read a book where to put? If I don't
play exhibitions. I played an exhibition for Chick fil A
yesterday in in a Georgia. I played, of course I've
never seen in my life. I never misread one, but
I might not hit it there. But honest the goodness,
if you can't read a green after two or three
(12:32):
days of practice on the golf course, you've got a
serious problem. You better take stock of yourself. Sure, you
still got to use your your gift of talent. You've
got to use your eyes, you've got to use your feel.
You can take a long put of forty ft. You
can put long pat cross handed any way you like.
(12:54):
It's still the field that knocks the ball that close.
It's not that stroke. It's the field and the eye
coordination that you cannot describe. You know, I throw a
ball to you, one guy go and I throw it
quickly at you. Another guy goes, another guy just like this.
You know, he doesn't how to catch it. A lady
gets in a car, or some of your man gets
(13:15):
in a car and they're driving and they can't prevent
the car accident if they had good reflexes. They don't.
There's so many things about this game that we really
don't know, but I will say one thing, having spent
time with Ben Hogan, who was, without a question, the
greatest striker of a ball from Tito Green, you had
to see it to believe it. They basically did when
(13:39):
they were swinging the club. Now we're off the putting,
they basically did. They did two movements, or they did
one movement, one movement in the swing that everybody else did,
and that was a movement that you had to do.
Now you can make the different movements. You can be
trying something that Ben Hogan told you and told me,
and we do it and we look completely differ it.
(14:00):
That's why the game is so confusing. And there's so
many hidden factors in this game. And we must never
there's that we are ever saying in business. And if
young there're two saints. And if young people starting out
would listen to this trust instinct to the end though
it rendered no reason. And the other thing is Winston
(14:23):
church and I have a lot of young guys coming
to me and say, how do I become a champion?
I don't know? How do I become a good putter?
I don't know? And Winston Churchill said something which puts
it in a nutshell, the greatest saying of my life.
And Winston Churchill was the greatest leader that ever lived
when you think what he went through, and the courage
and the command of the English language, etcetera, and the
(14:45):
sense of humor. But he said to people, and they
asked him why he was successful, he said, you know
the height that great men reached and kept a lot
of players play well, but they don't keep it for
very long. We're not attained by in flight. He says
that when my opponents were sleeping, I was toiling upward
(15:05):
in the night. And that's what you gotta do. You've
got to outwork him. And that's what Hogan did, and
that's what all the top players I ever saw, they
were workers. Look at Tiger woods Man right forever. This
guy's got to focus like I've never seen engulf this guy.
He was in another world. I'd love to respond to that.
(15:27):
First of all, Winston Churchill has a book that I
just started reading called The Splendid in the Vial. It
just came out, and he's intriguing to no end. But
when when we go when we talk about putting greatness, longevity,
is it learned? Is it born? Can you accumulate it
as you get older? Um? I think one of the
(15:48):
things I'm the most proud about my putting stats were
as I got older, my putting statistics got better, So
I lead the putting stats and in the nineties and
early two thousands when I was forty years old. So
when people say, oh, you were lucky, you were born
a good putter, it's really an insult because I spent
(16:08):
hours and hours and hours on a practice putting green
from the time I was, you know, really serious about
the game. A twelve thirteen years old, I didn't ever
want to get off the green. I put it in
my room at night. I never left my clubs at
the course. I always brought them back to my room.
I always had a club even now. You know, I
got my putter right here. Most of the time when
I have a conversation with somebody, putters in my hand.
(16:30):
I'm feeling the grip. I sense it in my fingers,
in my hands. I don't like to put it down.
I love this part of the game. And and to me,
if if I had to pass something on, you better
love this part of the game. And uh, if you
want to be good for a long time, as people think,
oh it's unfair, the ball can lip out, it's only
(16:51):
four and a quarter inches. And then people would have
been they would say, well, if you just made the
whole bigger, it would make it easier for everybody. Do
you a match A money puts you at hold? If
the ball, the ball, the whole the cup was twice
as big, he would have made way more than everybody else.
Um so that doesn't make sense to me, because everybody
else with a hold boy as will. But but all
(17:13):
the great putters would have been better if the whole
is bigger that that argument doesn't make sense to me.
But I think that you know, I left myself off
that list Gary because I didn't want to make it
sound about me. And I know any list is controversial,
but you know, I've been helping Rory McElroy and was
putting for the last three years. He's one of those
talented players out there. It's one four major championships. He's
(17:35):
just turned thirty two. Um, and he won last week
at Wells Fargo by having some of the greatest putting
numbers of his career. And I put him tenth on
my list. And did I put him tempt because? Um?
I wanted to create a little bit of a stirry. Yes,
because I helped him. Yes. Did he see the list, yes?
Did he put better? Yes? Did he win? Yes? So
(17:56):
is that coaching too? Is that given some confidence? Maybe? Um?
Do you think about it? I don't know, but I've
seen him part when he's not at a tournament, and
I'm like, this guy is pretty gifted. He's only thirty two,
which seems to be I mean, how much how is
your career pre thirty two and post thirty two for championships?
Yourself but I was very I was different. I won
(18:19):
the British Open or the Open when I was twenty three.
I was the youngest to win it at the stage.
And I had already completed the Grand Slam when I
was twenty nine. And if I may digress for a minute,
I said to my wife, nobody will ever beat that.
Nicholas came along and did it at twenty six. Now
listen to this. And I went focused to listen to this.
The greatest sporting achievement in the history of sport, any sport,
(18:40):
you like, man, woman, whoever it may be. Tiger Woods
winning the Grand Slam at twenty four. I mean, that's
not on, that's not on. But you know it. This
is this is the wonderful thing talking to you because, uh,
the experience and the how things different, how people's minds work,
and how they go about it. And I would never
(19:02):
have put Rory. I mean, I am Rory McElroy's biggest fan.
I know Rory McElroy and I've said it every year
and he hasn't done it yet. Will win the Grand
Slab because he has the best golf swing on the
tour bar none, There's no question. And but I have not.
I thought if he had a weakness, if he had
a weakness, it was he's putting. Now he's won four majors,
(19:24):
so you can still get better. It doesn't matter how
good you are. And I'm so pleased that he is
having lessons with you because you, first of all can
impart to him the knowledge that is important. And I
was so happy to see him win and he will
go on and win a lot of golf torments in
the future. Will you take somebody like Rory McElroy and
(19:55):
you teach him to put You know, what have you?
What have you basically um to improve his putting? Whether
it's mental of course, you know the big thing you
and you would agree with me, and I'll answer that
a little bit before you do you when you play golf,
if you don't believe in yourself and honestly, bred I
(20:17):
can tell you, sincerely, without boasting, when I played against
nick Jack Nicholas, I never felt he would ever beat me.
When I got on the first tear of the World
match play in England, thirty six holes two years in
a row, long off of course, I've been in six
and four, five and four, and everybody said I have
no chance, you've got to believe and Jack Nicholas did
that and Tiger Woods did that. To do anything, well,
(20:39):
you have to start off believing yourself that you can
do it. And obviously, with Rory winning four majors and
with the talent that he has, if he does, he
definitely believes in himself. And I mean you only go
to look at Jordan's feet. I mean, this guy is
a phenomenal pattern not good phenomenal. He's the best in
the world right now as time being repetitive from a
(21:02):
hundred yards in and the patting the Open championship he
won at was it toy like no know at birtdo
bick out he I've never seen a tourment one like
that in my life and I never will look again.
It was just wonderful to see because it doesn't matter
if you drive the green or you hold a long pat.
It's just school. It matters. But now I want to
(21:24):
hear what basically you did to get Drury to to
pet better in this last tournament. Well, it's it's a
there's a it's a great question. And first of all,
I was just honored that he would even asked me
to even think that I could help him. And three
years ago, in March and two thousand and eighteen, UM
he asked me to watch him hit some puts before
(21:44):
he went up to play at Arnold Palmer's tournament at Bayhood.
So I I was nervous. I had watched some videos
of a stroke, but I felt like, here's a guy
that's he had one fifteen times already on the PGA
to read one four majors. I know he's gifted, he's talented.
His putting stats have been poor for three years in
a row. He was working with a different putting instructor
(22:08):
when he called me, uh, and I just I feel like,
for someone in that caliber, I've got to let the
talent that he has come out right. He obviously has
that he eat one Kiwa at the p GA by
what how many shots? Leaven shots or tenn shots? He
dusted the field and he did that by incredible driving,
(22:28):
incredible putting. So how do you get that out of
a person. And I'm learning that more and more every
time I teach anywhere, whether it's at beginner golfer, one
of the best of the world. So for Rory, one
of my philosophies are thoughts in putting is that when
you get too many lessons and too many thoughts and
players look like they I say, it looks like they're
(22:51):
reading an instruction manual on how to do it while
they're over and everything looks slow, everything looks piece feel together.
That doesn't look like there's any kind of continue. It
was motion. And I always thought the players that were
good didn't stay still for too long over the putt,
and I thought with Rory that that's what I saw immediately.
(23:11):
Um and we we actually hit some puts with different
clubs besides the putter. We hit puts with a sand
wed without. He took a five without. Gary was amazing.
At the Bars Club where you practice a lot with,
Jack built a fantastic practice facility. Greens. There were thirteen
or fourteen on the stimpmeter. The wind was blowing, and
I made Rory hit three fifteen foot puts with the
(23:33):
five would He had never done this before. He was
putting this five wood in the bag to go play
at Augusta like Gray Floyd did when he won. And
and Rory putted these three balls, made all three of them.
You could see leaves blown because the wind was blowing
so hard. And it was kind of at that point
that I think I gained a little bit of his
trust that this is something he needed to go back
(23:54):
and and I'd be interested to hear what you think,
because I think he he had lost his instincts, he
had lost his freedom to his putting. And and look,
I go in and maybe differently than the average putting
instructor or a golf swing teacher. Most of the time
players now go to get somebody to look at them
(24:15):
when they're not playing well, not hitting it well, not
putting well, and they always try to find what's wrong.
I do the opposite. Either try to find what's right.
What do they do well? First? What do they think
about when they're putting their best? How do they think
um and how do they feel? And then how do
you get those fields to come out to them? That's
(24:38):
that's where I start, because I think if I can
get their comfort level back, then their stroke and their
mechanics improved without even telling them to do anything. And
that's that's kind of this. If there's a secret sauce,
that's one of the things that I feel like I'm
trying to do every time I see the player. Yeah,
makes such sense. That's you see, but you see, you've
(25:01):
been in the arena. That's the big thing. If I
was a young pro having a lesson. Now, I think
their category is like everything in life. I love the
club pros. They help their members and they are tremendous
for golf and they do so much which we all appreciate.
And then you have another category where a man can
teach a young amateur at a club and do well.
(25:22):
And then you get now, this is where we've got
to be careful. Then you get another category where not
many people can teach a touring pro. Look what happened.
I mean, the best example I can give of this,
Tiger Woods wins the US Open by fifteen shots, not
five fifteen I heard of the next week. Basically, he's
(25:45):
having a lesson because he was ambitious, he wanted he
thought he could get better. I don't think he could
have got a better If he came to me for
a lesson, I would have said go home. I don't
want to say a single word because I can only lose.
I can only make you wish, I cannot make you better.
Out of the fact that he believed he could climb
Mount Everest. Well, that was to his detriment. If he
(26:06):
never had a lesson Bred I'm telling you that, man,
I know, he would have won twenty five majors, maybe thirty.
There's not even a question about it. He was winning
one and a half a year anyway, and he never
went a major for eleven years. Now people can say
his injuries Tiger Woods. With Tiger Woods, he was so
focused and so good. He didn't worry about injuries. He
(26:28):
he had a mind to overcome that injury. What injury?
He won the US Open basically on one leg down
in California, didn't he? And you know, you know what
it is, Brad. I mean, we all played Thomas. We
didn't worry about that injury. Man. We wanted to win
the tournament. You're going in the battlefield. You can't tell
a soldier you've got a sore leg. Well, we're in
(26:49):
the battlefield. Not to the same comparison as a soldier,
but in our life that battlefield is essential and you're
gonna win at all costs. And so if you're gonna wait, Gary,
if a player is gonna wait until everything feels perfect,
where their body feels perfect, well every part of the
game feels perfect, you're you're in for a long wait.
(27:10):
And when Tiger he was warning the world back in
when he came on the tour, he won two tournaments
in the Falling beat Davis Loving the playoff at Las Vegas,
and then he won the Masters by fifteen shots a
year old, right, Um, he maybe just twenty two, but
he he said, I was he was winning without his
(27:32):
a game. And if you're gonna wait till every part
of your game was perfect, you were in for a
long time. But let me go one more thing on Rory. Um.
I spent a lot of time working with the sports
psychologist you would do a named Bob Rotella, who helped
a lot of players. And Rotella had some great quotes
from some great players, and one of my favorites was
(27:52):
from Mark Twain that was, the inability to forget is
infinitely more devastating than the inability to remember. Let me
say that again, the inability to forget is infinitely more
devastating than the inability to remember. And one of the
things with Rory when he when he went to Bay
Hill after we spend that time um at the Bears Club,
(28:13):
he went that night up there and he I said, look,
I just want you on every day, I want you
to write down or think about the feel of a
great put that you hit that day. And it doesn't
even have to have gone in, because everybody's hit beautiful
puts that don't go in, and how you respond to
those is really important, right you. You know, if you're
(28:34):
in a good mood and you're playing great and you
hit a good put that doesn't go in, you go,
I'm gonna make the next one. If you're not in
a good mood, if your mindsets and around place, you
go there I am I'm screwed again. So is that
attitude is something you can share with other people? And
I think that's what greats over a long period of
time where able to do. Because you missed a lot
(28:55):
more puts than you make, didn't you? No, exactly, No,
If anybody wants to have lessons, I'm putting they're going
to come to you. So double your fee because you
really you've been in the arena and that is so important.
You know, you said something. But there again, there is
a contradiction that you found people kept moving when they're
(29:18):
over the Pats subway or other. Whether it's your eye,
your hands, whatever it was, but Jack Nicholas was like
a mummy when he got over the ball. He stood
there and freezed. He was freezing, and yet he put
it so well. So they're always contradictions to this game.
And that's what people must realize. What works for Joe
doesn't work for Mode. And and you also mentioned how
(29:39):
you're putting has got better. Now I'm eighty five and
I've beaten my age over three thousand times in a row. Yeah,
but I want to be the first man to beat
my age by eighteen shots. But to do that, I've
done it sixteen times, three times. But to do at
eight time, you've got a put well, And I find
(30:02):
at eight five the one part of my game that
is nothing like it used to be. I mean, I
still hit every fairway and still play nicely, but the
putting is good, it's not very good. So the putting
you are an exception. Why does everybody who plays God
think about this? Eventually? Arnold Palmer, Lead, now Sam Snead,
(30:25):
all these guys, Ben Hogan, the whole lot all got
the yips, every one of them got the hips. You
know why, because the nerves we're out, nothing lost forever.
Now you are. This is a good comparison. You hold
you now, I'll be sixty and honest, okay you're sixty,
(30:45):
so your putting is better now, you say, but I
don't know if I say that, well, it says good.
But now how would you How would you be? Now
if you came down a Gusta with a British Open
with how was to go and you were leading? Good?
Do you think your petting would be? I'm alas can
you do that? Only you know? Well? I have very
(31:08):
I still have a lot of confidence in my putting. Gary,
if I was leading the British Open by four shots
like Tom Watson was when he was fifty nine with
you when he was leading, Um, people would be surprised
at me because I didn't hit it from A to
B as well as most, but I could still get
uh the pots. Hold and look, I made some very
(31:29):
good pots in my career. I made some of the
Ryder Cup, I missed some of the Ryder Cup. I
didn't make them to win a major, but um, I
tried to pass on those experiences to everyone. I kind
of look when you said that about Jack Nicholas, and
I played with Jack a few times, really not in
his prime but he did say to me he would
stand over that ball until he felt more comfortable. And
(31:51):
now it looks there's almost exceptions to every rule. Right now,
Jack could do that. I wouldn't recommend teaching that. But
if some good player said I really put better when
I stand over it longer, and when I'm over in
my crouch, that's I have to stay there until I
see behind, I wouldn't object to that. But Gary and
my experience, I've yet to have a man or woman younger, old, good,
(32:15):
or great come to me and say, uh, I need
to think about more, I need to take longer, I
need to try harder. Uh. They always say things like
I put better in practice, I put better in pro ams,
I put better with my friends that I do in tournaments.
I don't have players come back and say to me,
I think I'll put better if I think about ten things.
(32:37):
I think I'll put better if I take longer. I
don't have players say that. So if they did do
that like Jack did, I would be all for that,
because to me, when you want to help someone get better,
you want to create a good pre shot routine. And
that pre shot routine is not just physical, it's mental.
And how you go about thinking that should help you
(33:00):
to hit a better pot or a better shot. And
when we define confidence, and again another thing from Rotel
and competent golfer is somebody that knows where that golf
ball is going to go before they make their swing.
They know they're gonna make that pot before they hit
that pot. And that's what you're trying to do is
help somebody get in that mindset more often. So we
come back to what we said at the beginning of
(33:21):
the show. What wins golf toms is the mind, yes,
and some people are blessed to have that thing called it.
And the other thing is putting you walk off the
green and your three part and a vital moment in
the torment, you feel a little low and you hold.
You hit your drive in the rough the next hole,
and you hit the next well in the bunker, and
(33:43):
you put it and you blade it across the green
and you hold the pot for a pa you walk
off the green lock you've made an eagle. So the
mind is always fluctuating, and that's what you've got to prevent.
You've got to keep that mind positive all the time,
irrespective getting a bad shot is part of the guy him.
That's what people when I see young guys getting upset
when their miss a short part, they stand there and
(34:05):
look at it. Nobody's interested in that, miss it, and
get the hell out of there. I think it's always
the word I always said to myself. The next shot,
the next one, forget that there's nothing you can do
about it. You've got to realize there's nothing you can
do the next one. Go about it with a prositive attitude,
is what you would say. But I'll tell you one
thing I would do if I was a man, start
(34:26):
our youngster playing golf today. I'd start putting cross handed.
And the other thing I would do, remember the genes
of everybody, Like a fingerprint is different. Seven billion people
have seven different fingerprints. Don't when a person, and my
advice to a teacher teaching a young guy come along,
don't alter his genes. Don't alter which is a natural
(34:50):
thing for him to do for another movement in the string.
What once you do that he's finished, You've got to
add to what he's doing and build onto what he's doing.
Don't change his natural kenness. The other wife he's gone.
I love that, Gary, I would say One of the
highlights of my life and career was when you came
up to play our CBS charity Classic UM in Rhode
(35:12):
Island where I grew up at Rhode Island Country. But
what I learned to put and we got paired the
first round with Arnold and Billy Andre, my co host,
and I putted unbelievable that first round. I don't know
what I would have shot on my old ball, but
you made a bunch of punch of Bernie the first hole.
And then when we got to the final hold of
thirty six hole elevated green, you hit that iron shot
(35:33):
in there to about fifteen feet and you had to
make this tie Nick Price and I think Mark Calcibeccio,
and there was a big crowd on that green, And
when I watched you, I felt like I went back
in time. I felt like this was a puppet you
knew you were going to make before you made it.
I don't know if you remember it like I do,
but you got very well. You made that thing right
in the center of the cup. You made the greatest
(35:56):
fist pump and hands raised. And that was Gary player
that I watched on TV growing up for so so
many years, and I think when you when you have it,
like you talked about, it's hard for it to go away.
Sometimes I would say, if you went and looked down
the list I made or the list that you made,
and all those players are in some sort of hall
(36:17):
of fame, what we have traditionally called fundamentals in the
game of golphin and putting, you know we would have
been grip, stance, posture, alignment um. Every single player in
that hall of fame looks different over the putter, right.
They used a different putter, a different way to grip.
They Some stood tall, some crouched down like jack Um,
(36:41):
Some had their hands close to their legs like you did,
like Bobby lock did. Some were more h technically like
Tiger Jason day Um. Other players had different grips like
doing with speed across handed. I don't know if I
would say any of those tradition of fundamentals are what
(37:03):
we would say are applicable that have to do. But
I do think that the best players they did two things.
They generally not always hit the ball in the center
of the putter. They hit the sweet spot, and they
had an incredible ability to put what they saw the
read of the green into motion with the ball. They
could see the path of the arc the ball is
(37:25):
going to take, um and look, is that something that
you can teach or is that something you have to
learn organically by just getting so many puts? Um, you know,
and that would be my one thing. Players had good
ability to read feel, so they could determined break in
speed together. I don't believe that one is just more
(37:46):
important than any other. They hit the center of the
face most of the time, and then that that to me,
would be one thing in common with everybody. Um. The
second part fifth, I remember Ray Floyd saying one time
that you have to get comfortable over the ball. Now,
(38:07):
if you just told an average golfer to get comfortable,
that's not necessarily going to make them in a position
that allows the partner to swing the way it should.
So UM, I would teach totally different to a beginner
golfer than I would to somebody that's played for years
and years. I wouldn't say to you, Gary, you need
(38:28):
to stand up, caroller and move your arms away from
your body if you've never done that in your life
and you've won nine major championships and I'm not doing that.
But if you're the inner golfer and you have no
way you know everybody when you may containing to go
and they that doesn't feel comfortable. Well, sometimes things can't
feel comfortable if you've never done it correctly. So um,
(38:49):
I would say for average golfers, they need to get
a lesson. You can see so much on TV now
on YouTube, you know on what players did. There's almost
too much instruction out there a matter of fact. But
I think the way I would go about teaching champions
offered the first at beginner offers. Bobby Locke said something
to me that I've never heard mentioned ever, and that
(39:13):
is when you put you ought to have the four
to one rule. Now here's your cup. If you put
the board comes at the right speed, it can go
in on the right side, it could go on the
back side, it can go in on the left side,
or it can come in in the front of the cup.
(39:33):
Four chances if you hit it hard. You've only got
one chance. And that was a magnificent And I've never
heard anybody said, you give yourself and if you can
get four to one, go to Vegas on anything that's
good odds so and the other thing is you've got
to visualize. As you said, you've got to be able
to read the green world. Man, that Tiger would read
(39:54):
a green world good without a book. He read all
the great part as I've seen, were great readers of
the mean. And you've got to visualize right speed and
the right the right curve of the ball. You gotta
think you're gonna make it the most good pedest Still,
I've never seen anybody but Well moving all over the
(40:14):
place when they putting. And the other thing, you've got
to accelerate. You cannot hold no shot. Can you play well? Decelerate.
If I was a weekend golf and went out to tomorrow,
I'm going to accelerate my driving. I'm going to accelerate
out of the sand. I'm going to accelerate with my petter.
Acceleration is imperative. All those things are great advice and
(40:37):
coming from one of the greatest players I've ever lived, Gary,
I love that four to one about Bobby lock and
one of them beautiful, and then another thing about Bobby Locks.
He started the um the conversation talking about him being
the greatest player on your list. I know that he
spent some time in Vermont. He did spend some time
with Bob Rotella, and he was very Ben Hogan was
(41:00):
very friendly with an LPGA player named Chris Cheddar who
lived in Fort Worth, and he would often practice and
watch Cris at balls, and Chris asked Bob Rotella to
come have lunch with Ben Hogan and and Rotell a
new Bobby Luck, and Rotella heard from Bobby that he
had said that Ben Hogan was the best putter he
(41:22):
ever saw. Bobby Lock said that about Ben Hogan. And
when Bob Rotella told that to Hogan at that lunch,
this would have been in the eighties, Ben was much
older and lived a few years after. But Rotella told
Ben Bobby Luck said, you're the greatest potter you've ever seen.
Then Hogan actually got cheery eyed at that lunch. Bob said,
so Hogan had to be pretty good. I have played
(41:45):
golf now as professional for just on seventy years plus
minus whatever the number is, and we got a site
to ourselves festiv all. What conditions did we play under?
I mean, you know, you know, we played golf, and
I put Bobby Lock as the best pudder that ever lived.
(42:05):
For assist or reason that I played a lot with
him and I saw it with my own eyes. A
lot of people in America and never ever saw Bobby
lock and he won four British Opens. He came over
here and won seven out of the first eleven tournaments,
and they bared him. They barred him from playing. Nobody
knows that because in those days they could do that
kind of thing. Because he was winning with every almost
(42:30):
every week, they bought him. So the thing is this
that he played on greens where they didn't have mowers
like now. The greens were not even half as good
as now. We as you know, we played with spike
marks in our entire career. Two spike marks on every green.
You didn't have a mower that could zoom across the
green that you know, ten miles an hour and cut
(42:52):
the green like a snooker table. Actually, the greens that
played today are equivalent to a snooker table. We never
saw that once in our life. So that's another thing
that we've got to think about. The Other thing is
they even put the pins in the same place every day. Now,
you tell a young guy a few things that actually
transpired when we played. They never changed the cups one day.
(43:15):
Bobby Jones playing under those conditions. Bobby locked it in
my first start of my career. They didn't change the cups.
So you know now, and you've got a cup that
you putting too for four straight days. That cup ain't
round anymore. It's it's been, it's it's risen. So they
keep the ball out of the hole, isn't allowed to
go in. Yeah, So that's to me, is fascinating. But
(43:36):
Bobby Luck, he put it under the most wicked conditions
and I'm telling you something has been Hogan said, He said,
you had to see it to believe it. Sam Snead
played Bobby Lock in South Africa twenty two matches Bobby
Lock one eighteen. They tied to and Snead and his
prime one two and Sneak came back and said, listen, guys,
(43:57):
you've bet a bet. You've bet a bet. There's bit
this guy, Bobby Lock. You bet a bit him and
the Torments and a lot of guys and Clayton Heffner
bought a farm in Charlotte, not a farm, excuse me,
a golf course, in fact, thirty six holes backing Lock
against Hogan. Sneed the merit Mangram. All the great players
that existed in those days, and not a lot of
(44:18):
young players today. They don't realize how many great players
they were in those days. But be that asn't made.
You had to actually be around Lock to see how
he putted. And I give him the nod because if
he put it on greens like this, I don't know
what we would have seen. But on the other hand,
Tiger woods, it's hard. Actually we have to give Lock
(44:38):
and Tiger tie because Tiger hole amazing puts on the
last green. Now you know, Brad, if you hold a
put on the second hole or you hold a put
on the lost hole, it counts the same, except people, people,
millions of people are seeing you do it on the
lost hole. And Tiger was a king at doing that.
And I admired his part. Uh, it's interesting to see
(45:03):
that you never put Jordan's speed in and you mentioned
Jordan's speek. Now, Jordan's speech to me in the world today,
There's no question about it. Jordan's speak from a hundred
yards in is the best player in the world, without
a question. He's long game. I think, in my my
humble opinion, he has four faults in his swing, and
when he finds those out, he he if Jordan's Spee
(45:25):
could find what's wrong with his swing, he would be
number one in the world because he holds three chip
shots at August on those greens. Jordan's Spee, I love him.
He's a great American. People love him. He looks after
his family. I just adore that. And but watch out
when he finds out, when he finds out how to
(45:46):
swing that golf club, the guy is gonna have to
watch out. And I'm sure he will find out, and
then he's He's like that in factor. And of all
the players playing golf today, Jordan of speed has deep
its defector. Now are you keen on the cross handed putting? Interestingly,
(46:09):
I when I first got on a tour, there was
a putting instructor named Dave Pell's. Pell's helped Tom kite Um.
He had done some studies that showed that cross handed
was an easier way to put for for players than
I am. I'm very right handed with everything that I do,
and when I when I put, I feel like I
(46:30):
used my right side. So I feel like the left
for cross handing for me would take the right side
out and it would be more of a pulling action.
But you know, We've seen what Bryson the Shambo has
done with his arm lock. You know when he's when
he's put that shaft against the side of his left arm. Um,
and Bernard Langer was one of the first to do that.
We see Webb Simpson arm lock. We see Matt Coucher
(46:52):
do that. Um talk about things that I think should
be illegal are not allowed by the U. S g
a UM. I think crossing and it's nice, but I'm
not a big fan of this armlock. I don't think
I've said that's The founding fathers of our game wanted
a free swinging club. They didn't want something attached to
your body. That I agree with you. I like anchoring
(47:15):
at all. But bread, this has really been so nice
talking to you because we both love golf. We love
to see golf go ahead. We want to see young
people come out and be champions and play the game.
To be grateful in life, Gratitude is a big thing,
and to have the opportunity of living this country that
(47:36):
ever existed is an honor. God bless you and God
bless America. Gerry Uh, I love spending a minute with you,
never mind an hour. Thank you so much for having me.
You've been an inspiration in my life too, for me
and my love of the game. I hope when I'm five,
I can break my age by one shot once. So
(47:58):
thank you for having me. I can't wait to get
to the golf course. I'm going out to hit right now.
All right, take it bread, Godless. Don't forget to subscribe
to the Player series on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you
get your podcast.
Well bred. First of all, thanks for coming on our podcast.
You know, we're talking about putting, and I was fascinated
to see your list of the ten best patterns that
ever lived. And it reminded me of when I spent
some time with Justin Tucked, the football player, and now
we're talking about all time great football players, and he
said something very significant. He said, how do you determine
(00:29):
who are the best? And the only way you can
determine the best is the record book. And when I
look at your list, and I'd like you to tell me,
you know, just going over your list, what may you
decide on these guys, is your ten best patterns? And
then I'm going to have my answer to you. So
the list of anybody's top ten list, whether it's the
(00:52):
best putters, like I showed the best players of all time, Gary,
that the best golf courses that you your favorite courses,
if you make this list, there's a subjective this to
this right, everybody has their opinions. But I think for me,
there were a few things that I want to identify.
First of all, I made a mistake early by not
saying this is for p g A tour players. I
(01:14):
upset some of the ladies, and I didn't mean to
do that. I'm not an expert on women's professional golf,
but I know that they were very very uh grit.
Some great uh LPGA players are great putters. But for
the p g A Tour players, I wanted to say,
putting for importance is really one of the things on
the list. How many times did you win in a
(01:35):
whole put under pressure? And like you said about greatness
or superstar winning six majors if you if you were
a great putter, like someone like Morris Atowski, who won
several times on the PGA Tour, was noted to be
a great putter. He didn't win major championships. So I
wanted to have major champions in there. I wanted to
(01:56):
have players that weren't just young. I mean, there were
people that were pauled that I didn't have Jordan's speech
or um, let's say Jason Day on there, and I said, listen, um,
I want them to prove over the test of time.
There has to be some longevity to this. And there
were a lot of players that put it good for
just a few years. Fuzzy Zella, but he didn't put
(02:18):
great for a long time. Um, that's why this list
is hard to do. And and then I had some
preferences for players that I thought just really looked good
doing it. And after putting Tiger Woods first, I had
Ben Crenshaw and Sevy by Steros arguably two of the
best putters in history that did it for a long time.
But they just looked very good as they did it well.
(02:41):
Very good point. And uh, it's fascinating and to debate
on this particular subject is interesting for the people. And
you know, you've got to remember longevity, longevity in sport,
irrespective what sport it is. How are you judge great players,
how you judge great pat does in sport? Longevity has
(03:01):
an awful lot to do that many people, as you
correctly said, they come along and they put well for
a few years, and then you don't hear them again. Now,
you were very humble in your list, which obviously I
admire you for your your personality and your your the
fact that you're a humble, wonderful gentleman, and I've always
admired you. Nobody put it much better than you did.
(03:23):
How you remain so tall, I don't know you were
bending down so much. I thought you'd be five ft three,
but anyway, you hold so many many pats that and
Jack Nicholas look at the puts he hold too. When
you know, if people forget he were not only in
(03:44):
eighteen majors, were second nineteen times. You know you've got
to be some kind of a pudder to do that.
Arn O Parmer he had a very short career, the
only one majors for six years. But in those six years,
let me tell you he charged every poddy, had never
left a pat sort ever. He hold more five footas
than anybody that ever lived coming back amazing. So uh.
(04:08):
And doug Ford people, most golfer has never heard of.
Doug Ford. He won the PGA and the Masters at
a jab stroke. Casper jab I listened on that one
of the networks about a player missing a putty, said,
oh he jabbed it. Well, three of the three of
the ten best padders all jabbed the ball. They never
followed through at all. So it's not the stroke, it's
(04:30):
the field. It's the eye. It has that that little
feeling of how to put. It's a gift. It's a
gift you had it. So let's talk about that that
field or that you know, you call it a jab stroke. Um.
Today some players make call that a pop stroke, like
the brand Snedecker. But on on the list of the
top ten players that I chose, um, and if maybe
(04:53):
if we went even too the top twenty all time players,
there was only one of those players, and Raymond Floyd
would have been that one that used to maw putter.
He used his zebra putter for a long time, and
there weren't many mallet putters. You used to blade, Crenshaw
used to blade. Even now they call the ping putters blades. Um.
In today's world, if you look at the top twenty
five world ranking players, seventeen or eighteen of those players
(05:16):
are using mallet putters. But the putting statistics. Have you
looked at the stats since the last twenty years since
shot linked data, putting stats really haven't gotten better. You know,
you mentioned how the greens are in such a good
shape now they're like the pool table or a snooker table.
Why don't you think the the stats have gotten better now?
(05:39):
Does it have something to do with pin places being
on more slope. Well, that's a very debatable issue. Um,
I don't think personally, I don't think that the putters today,
other than Jordan's speech, I don't think they put it
as well as uh as Tiger Woods has been crunch
yours Balastro, says Bobby lack. Uh all these guys, I
(06:00):
don't think these guys today actually they hit the ball
much further. They can hit the ball in the rough
and still score. I think their grooves on the clubs.
I think the bunkers are all raked with a machine,
whether it's some back too or I mean, we we played,
we never had rakes. We raked with our feet. I
(06:22):
went to this vicretary of the British Open and said,
I love the British Open. Please, sir, can I donate
eighteen rates to this uh the British Open. He kicked
me out of his office. He said I was being
insolent because I said, in America they have rights. So
you know, you can't really say, I mean Tiger Woods
is putting stood out. There's no question Tiger Woods should
(06:47):
have won. I think, as I'm being repetitive now, you
should have won at least twenty five majors, at least
twenty five. There's no question that Tiger, which is the
most talented golfer that ever lived. Will his record be
that good? I I didn't know. Will he Will he
come back and win torments? I hope. So we're all
(07:07):
pulling for Tiger Wood. But what do you think, I mean,
why do you think tiger Why do you think he
petted so well? I think there's you talk about it factor.
I think on the putting green, there's something called the
will factor. UM. And I learned a lot from players
that were much better than me and more experienced. When
(07:27):
I first got out on the tour, I tried to
play with some of the best putters. And one of
the guys we haven't talked about that how to have
watched you growing up, was Mark McNulty, who I played
a lot with when I first turned professional. I knew
a lot of the South Africa's in the Rhodesians because
they worked with David Ledbetter back in the early eighties
when he was teaching Nick Price. UM. I got to
(07:47):
know Dennis Watson and Gavin Levinson and McNulty. And McNulty
had an old bull's eye. He had an interesting grip
where he had both his index fingers down the shaft
and kind of closed the face back and through But
he was one of the best putters I've ever seen
on bad green and when the Greens got worse, he
got better. And that doesn't make sense, doesn't But but
(08:11):
being great doesn't make sense either, because you can't think normally.
You have to think super realistically. And I think players
that played well putted well one majors, that traveled the
world like you did, they had something inside whether they're
born with it, learned and accumulated that over time. To me,
that's the most fascinating part about this game. Some of
(08:33):
it's explainable, some of it's just not. And we we've
all watched Tiger, haven't we, And and in the in
the in the years when he was winning his major championships,
it seemed like every week he was in contention every
put that he had to make. Like watching Jack or
like watching you, you knew the importance of them, but
you somehow could gather yourself together and make those puts.
(08:55):
And that's that's what you call the in factor. I
call the will. That's what McNulty had when the Greens
got worse. And how do we put those things together
for a long period of times? What really intrigues me, Yeah,
and the question you asked me, why why the status
are not better to day in spite of a debatedly
(09:16):
debatedly are better or though Bobby Jones and a lot
of guys padded with a blade patter, a little old
thin blade pattern and padded extremely well. But golf, you know,
I basically study genetics every day of my life, and
golf is very similar to genetics. You know a hell
of a lot about nothing that's right, that's what it's ready.
(09:37):
Golf is the most contradictory sport that exists. The swing
takes let's say one second, and they've probably been over
four million words written about that swing. It's you can't comprehend,
can you? No, you can't, you can't all I know
(09:57):
what you said, you can't. You can't an eyes that
you cannot describe it. But there's certain basic fundamentals and
I still think I know. I mean, I played, I
played with people like Tommy Armore, I mean before your
father was born even and also we played. I played
with Gens Derrison, wonderful golfers, wonderful golfers, and they they
(10:21):
were doing things, and they had a swing that was
absolutely marvelous. When you talk about uh, you know the swings?
What are the legends do the greatest players of all time?
I know, you know a friend of mine named Lucas Waald,
he's a great instructor. He carried for you in Houston
one year and he's he's studied the swing as much
as anybody, and he ironically did the top ten all
(10:44):
time great swings which you were on. Um. And it
was amazing how many of those top ten players swings
and how they were as potters too. Um. But I
think we have to learn from the greats and how
did they think? How did they feel? And the more
I learn, and Gary, um as I've becoming, you know,
known as it maybe a golfing putting instructor. Um. The
(11:06):
more I learned, the less I know. Really, but um,
I'm fascinated that more and more this is less about
what the putter does, going back and through about more
that is about how you prepare, how you think, how
you practice, and I think how you practice even to
go warm up to go play is different than what
(11:28):
you would practice on a week off. I think I
see one of the mistakes I see some man of
the modern day players is they're always using some kind
of a device to measure everything they do. And to me,
I think it's okay for a little bit, but they
start losing their feel their own fields. What do you
feel about that? Now you're a correct and one of
(11:51):
the things. But look, I always admire the young players
today as I've admired the young of the players of
the post. But one thing they've to stop. Bread, is
this a piece of paper and looking at a book
where to put? Now? Goodness, bread, you know they're not
better patters than existed in the past at all. In fact,
(12:12):
they might not be as good as the past. Nobody
ever read a book where to put? If I don't
play exhibitions. I played an exhibition for Chick fil A
yesterday in in a Georgia. I played, of course I've
never seen in my life. I never misread one, but
I might not hit it there. But honest the goodness,
if you can't read a green after two or three
(12:32):
days of practice on the golf course, you've got a
serious problem. You better take stock of yourself. Sure, you
still got to use your your gift of talent. You've
got to use your eyes, you've got to use your feel.
You can take a long put of forty ft. You
can put long pat cross handed any way you like.
(12:54):
It's still the field that knocks the ball that close.
It's not that stroke. It's the field and the eye
coordination that you cannot describe. You know, I throw a
ball to you, one guy go and I throw it
quickly at you. Another guy goes, another guy just like this.
You know, he doesn't how to catch it. A lady
gets in a car, or some of your man gets
(13:15):
in a car and they're driving and they can't prevent
the car accident if they had good reflexes. They don't.
There's so many things about this game that we really
don't know, but I will say one thing, having spent
time with Ben Hogan, who was, without a question, the
greatest striker of a ball from Tito Green, you had
to see it to believe it. They basically did when
(13:39):
they were swinging the club. Now we're off the putting,
they basically did. They did two movements, or they did
one movement, one movement in the swing that everybody else did,
and that was a movement that you had to do.
Now you can make the different movements. You can be
trying something that Ben Hogan told you and told me,
and we do it and we look completely differ it.
(14:00):
That's why the game is so confusing. And there's so
many hidden factors in this game. And we must never
there's that we are ever saying in business. And if
young there're two saints. And if young people starting out
would listen to this trust instinct to the end though
it rendered no reason. And the other thing is Winston
(14:23):
church and I have a lot of young guys coming
to me and say, how do I become a champion?
I don't know? How do I become a good putter?
I don't know? And Winston Churchill said something which puts
it in a nutshell, the greatest saying of my life.
And Winston Churchill was the greatest leader that ever lived
when you think what he went through, and the courage
and the command of the English language, etcetera, and the
(14:45):
sense of humor. But he said to people, and they
asked him why he was successful, he said, you know
the height that great men reached and kept a lot
of players play well, but they don't keep it for
very long. We're not attained by in flight. He says
that when my opponents were sleeping, I was toiling upward
(15:05):
in the night. And that's what you gotta do. You've
got to outwork him. And that's what Hogan did, and
that's what all the top players I ever saw, they
were workers. Look at Tiger woods Man right forever. This
guy's got to focus like I've never seen engulf this guy.
He was in another world. I'd love to respond to that.
(15:27):
First of all, Winston Churchill has a book that I
just started reading called The Splendid in the Vial. It
just came out, and he's intriguing to no end. But
when when we go when we talk about putting greatness, longevity,
is it learned? Is it born? Can you accumulate it
as you get older? Um? I think one of the
(15:48):
things I'm the most proud about my putting stats were
as I got older, my putting statistics got better, So
I lead the putting stats and in the nineties and
early two thousands when I was forty years old. So
when people say, oh, you were lucky, you were born
a good putter, it's really an insult because I spent
(16:08):
hours and hours and hours on a practice putting green
from the time I was, you know, really serious about
the game. A twelve thirteen years old, I didn't ever
want to get off the green. I put it in
my room at night. I never left my clubs at
the course. I always brought them back to my room.
I always had a club even now. You know, I
got my putter right here. Most of the time when
I have a conversation with somebody, putters in my hand.
(16:30):
I'm feeling the grip. I sense it in my fingers,
in my hands. I don't like to put it down.
I love this part of the game. And and to me,
if if I had to pass something on, you better
love this part of the game. And uh, if you
want to be good for a long time, as people think,
oh it's unfair, the ball can lip out, it's only
(16:51):
four and a quarter inches. And then people would have
been they would say, well, if you just made the
whole bigger, it would make it easier for everybody. Do
you a match A money puts you at hold? If
the ball, the ball, the whole the cup was twice
as big, he would have made way more than everybody else.
Um so that doesn't make sense to me, because everybody
else with a hold boy as will. But but all
(17:13):
the great putters would have been better if the whole
is bigger that that argument doesn't make sense to me.
But I think that you know, I left myself off
that list Gary because I didn't want to make it
sound about me. And I know any list is controversial,
but you know, I've been helping Rory McElroy and was
putting for the last three years. He's one of those
talented players out there. It's one four major championships. He's
(17:35):
just turned thirty two. Um, and he won last week
at Wells Fargo by having some of the greatest putting
numbers of his career. And I put him tenth on
my list. And did I put him tempt because? Um?
I wanted to create a little bit of a stirry. Yes,
because I helped him. Yes. Did he see the list, yes?
Did he put better? Yes? Did he win? Yes? So
(17:56):
is that coaching too? Is that given some confidence? Maybe? Um?
Do you think about it? I don't know, but I've
seen him part when he's not at a tournament, and
I'm like, this guy is pretty gifted. He's only thirty two,
which seems to be I mean, how much how is
your career pre thirty two and post thirty two for championships?
Yourself but I was very I was different. I won
(18:19):
the British Open or the Open when I was twenty three.
I was the youngest to win it at the stage.
And I had already completed the Grand Slam when I
was twenty nine. And if I may digress for a minute,
I said to my wife, nobody will ever beat that.
Nicholas came along and did it at twenty six. Now
listen to this. And I went focused to listen to this.
The greatest sporting achievement in the history of sport, any sport,
(18:40):
you like, man, woman, whoever it may be. Tiger Woods
winning the Grand Slam at twenty four. I mean, that's
not on, that's not on. But you know it. This
is this is the wonderful thing talking to you because, uh,
the experience and the how things different, how people's minds work,
and how they go about it. And I would never
(19:02):
have put Rory. I mean, I am Rory McElroy's biggest fan.
I know Rory McElroy and I've said it every year
and he hasn't done it yet. Will win the Grand
Slab because he has the best golf swing on the
tour bar none, There's no question. And but I have not.
I thought if he had a weakness, if he had
a weakness, it was he's putting. Now he's won four majors,
(19:24):
so you can still get better. It doesn't matter how
good you are. And I'm so pleased that he is
having lessons with you because you, first of all can
impart to him the knowledge that is important. And I
was so happy to see him win and he will
go on and win a lot of golf torments in
the future. Will you take somebody like Rory McElroy and
(19:55):
you teach him to put You know, what have you?
What have you basically um to improve his putting? Whether
it's mental of course, you know the big thing you
and you would agree with me, and I'll answer that
a little bit before you do you when you play golf,
if you don't believe in yourself and honestly, bred I
(20:17):
can tell you, sincerely, without boasting, when I played against
nick Jack Nicholas, I never felt he would ever beat me.
When I got on the first tear of the World
match play in England, thirty six holes two years in
a row, long off of course, I've been in six
and four, five and four, and everybody said I have
no chance, you've got to believe and Jack Nicholas did
that and Tiger Woods did that. To do anything, well,
(20:39):
you have to start off believing yourself that you can
do it. And obviously, with Rory winning four majors and
with the talent that he has, if he does, he
definitely believes in himself. And I mean you only go
to look at Jordan's feet. I mean, this guy is
a phenomenal pattern not good phenomenal. He's the best in
the world right now as time being repetitive from a
(21:02):
hundred yards in and the patting the Open championship he
won at was it toy like no know at birtdo
bick out he I've never seen a tourment one like
that in my life and I never will look again.
It was just wonderful to see because it doesn't matter
if you drive the green or you hold a long pat.
It's just school. It matters. But now I want to
(21:24):
hear what basically you did to get Drury to to
pet better in this last tournament. Well, it's it's a
there's a it's a great question. And first of all,
I was just honored that he would even asked me
to even think that I could help him. And three
years ago, in March and two thousand and eighteen, UM
he asked me to watch him hit some puts before
(21:44):
he went up to play at Arnold Palmer's tournament at Bayhood.
So I I was nervous. I had watched some videos
of a stroke, but I felt like, here's a guy
that's he had one fifteen times already on the PGA
to read one four majors. I know he's gifted, he's talented.
His putting stats have been poor for three years in
a row. He was working with a different putting instructor
(22:08):
when he called me, uh, and I just I feel like,
for someone in that caliber, I've got to let the
talent that he has come out right. He obviously has
that he eat one Kiwa at the p GA by
what how many shots? Leaven shots or tenn shots? He
dusted the field and he did that by incredible driving,
(22:28):
incredible putting. So how do you get that out of
a person. And I'm learning that more and more every
time I teach anywhere, whether it's at beginner golfer, one
of the best of the world. So for Rory, one
of my philosophies are thoughts in putting is that when
you get too many lessons and too many thoughts and
players look like they I say, it looks like they're
(22:51):
reading an instruction manual on how to do it while
they're over and everything looks slow, everything looks piece feel together.
That doesn't look like there's any kind of continue. It
was motion. And I always thought the players that were
good didn't stay still for too long over the putt,
and I thought with Rory that that's what I saw immediately.
(23:11):
Um and we we actually hit some puts with different
clubs besides the putter. We hit puts with a sand
wed without. He took a five without. Gary was amazing.
At the Bars Club where you practice a lot with,
Jack built a fantastic practice facility. Greens. There were thirteen
or fourteen on the stimpmeter. The wind was blowing, and
I made Rory hit three fifteen foot puts with the
(23:33):
five would He had never done this before. He was
putting this five wood in the bag to go play
at Augusta like Gray Floyd did when he won. And
and Rory putted these three balls, made all three of them.
You could see leaves blown because the wind was blowing
so hard. And it was kind of at that point
that I think I gained a little bit of his
trust that this is something he needed to go back
(23:54):
and and I'd be interested to hear what you think,
because I think he he had lost his instincts, he
had lost his freedom to his putting. And and look,
I go in and maybe differently than the average putting
instructor or a golf swing teacher. Most of the time
players now go to get somebody to look at them
(24:15):
when they're not playing well, not hitting it well, not
putting well, and they always try to find what's wrong.
I do the opposite. Either try to find what's right.
What do they do well? First? What do they think
about when they're putting their best? How do they think
um and how do they feel? And then how do
you get those fields to come out to them? That's
(24:38):
that's where I start, because I think if I can
get their comfort level back, then their stroke and their
mechanics improved without even telling them to do anything. And
that's that's kind of this. If there's a secret sauce,
that's one of the things that I feel like I'm
trying to do every time I see the player. Yeah,
makes such sense. That's you see, but you see, you've
(25:01):
been in the arena. That's the big thing. If I
was a young pro having a lesson. Now, I think
their category is like everything in life. I love the
club pros. They help their members and they are tremendous
for golf and they do so much which we all appreciate.
And then you have another category where a man can
teach a young amateur at a club and do well.
(25:22):
And then you get now, this is where we've got
to be careful. Then you get another category where not
many people can teach a touring pro. Look what happened.
I mean, the best example I can give of this,
Tiger Woods wins the US Open by fifteen shots, not
five fifteen I heard of the next week. Basically, he's
(25:45):
having a lesson because he was ambitious, he wanted he
thought he could get better. I don't think he could
have got a better If he came to me for
a lesson, I would have said go home. I don't
want to say a single word because I can only lose.
I can only make you wish, I cannot make you better.
Out of the fact that he believed he could climb
Mount Everest. Well, that was to his detriment. If he
(26:06):
never had a lesson Bred I'm telling you that, man,
I know, he would have won twenty five majors, maybe thirty.
There's not even a question about it. He was winning
one and a half a year anyway, and he never
went a major for eleven years. Now people can say
his injuries Tiger Woods. With Tiger Woods, he was so
focused and so good. He didn't worry about injuries. He
(26:28):
he had a mind to overcome that injury. What injury?
He won the US Open basically on one leg down
in California, didn't he? And you know, you know what
it is, Brad. I mean, we all played Thomas. We
didn't worry about that injury. Man. We wanted to win
the tournament. You're going in the battlefield. You can't tell
a soldier you've got a sore leg. Well, we're in
(26:49):
the battlefield. Not to the same comparison as a soldier,
but in our life that battlefield is essential and you're
gonna win at all costs. And so if you're gonna wait, Gary,
if a player is gonna wait until everything feels perfect,
where their body feels perfect, well every part of the
game feels perfect, you're you're in for a long wait.
(27:10):
And when Tiger he was warning the world back in
when he came on the tour, he won two tournaments
in the Falling beat Davis Loving the playoff at Las Vegas,
and then he won the Masters by fifteen shots a
year old, right, Um, he maybe just twenty two, but
he he said, I was he was winning without his
(27:32):
a game. And if you're gonna wait till every part
of your game was perfect, you were in for a
long time. But let me go one more thing on Rory. Um.
I spent a lot of time working with the sports
psychologist you would do a named Bob Rotella, who helped
a lot of players. And Rotella had some great quotes
from some great players, and one of my favorites was
(27:52):
from Mark Twain that was, the inability to forget is
infinitely more devastating than the inability to remember. Let me
say that again, the inability to forget is infinitely more
devastating than the inability to remember. And one of the
things with Rory when he when he went to Bay
Hill after we spend that time um at the Bears Club,
(28:13):
he went that night up there and he I said, look,
I just want you on every day, I want you
to write down or think about the feel of a
great put that you hit that day. And it doesn't
even have to have gone in, because everybody's hit beautiful
puts that don't go in, and how you respond to
those is really important, right you. You know, if you're
(28:34):
in a good mood and you're playing great and you
hit a good put that doesn't go in, you go,
I'm gonna make the next one. If you're not in
a good mood, if your mindsets and around place, you
go there I am I'm screwed again. So is that
attitude is something you can share with other people? And
I think that's what greats over a long period of
time where able to do. Because you missed a lot
(28:55):
more puts than you make, didn't you? No, exactly, No,
If anybody wants to have lessons, I'm putting they're going
to come to you. So double your fee because you
really you've been in the arena and that is so important.
You know, you said something. But there again, there is
a contradiction that you found people kept moving when they're
(29:18):
over the Pats subway or other. Whether it's your eye,
your hands, whatever it was, but Jack Nicholas was like
a mummy when he got over the ball. He stood
there and freezed. He was freezing, and yet he put
it so well. So they're always contradictions to this game.
And that's what people must realize. What works for Joe
doesn't work for Mode. And and you also mentioned how
(29:39):
you're putting has got better. Now I'm eighty five and
I've beaten my age over three thousand times in a row. Yeah,
but I want to be the first man to beat
my age by eighteen shots. But to do that, I've
done it sixteen times, three times. But to do at
eight time, you've got a put well, And I find
(30:02):
at eight five the one part of my game that
is nothing like it used to be. I mean, I
still hit every fairway and still play nicely, but the
putting is good, it's not very good. So the putting
you are an exception. Why does everybody who plays God
think about this? Eventually? Arnold Palmer, Lead, now Sam Snead,
(30:25):
all these guys, Ben Hogan, the whole lot all got
the yips, every one of them got the hips. You
know why, because the nerves we're out, nothing lost forever.
Now you are. This is a good comparison. You hold
you now, I'll be sixty and honest, okay you're sixty,
(30:45):
so your putting is better now, you say, but I
don't know if I say that, well, it says good.
But now how would you How would you be? Now
if you came down a Gusta with a British Open
with how was to go and you were leading? Good?
Do you think your petting would be? I'm alas can
you do that? Only you know? Well? I have very
(31:08):
I still have a lot of confidence in my putting. Gary,
if I was leading the British Open by four shots
like Tom Watson was when he was fifty nine with
you when he was leading, Um, people would be surprised
at me because I didn't hit it from A to
B as well as most, but I could still get
uh the pots. Hold and look, I made some very
(31:29):
good pots in my career. I made some of the
Ryder Cup, I missed some of the Ryder Cup. I
didn't make them to win a major, but um, I
tried to pass on those experiences to everyone. I kind
of look when you said that about Jack Nicholas, and
I played with Jack a few times, really not in
his prime but he did say to me he would
stand over that ball until he felt more comfortable. And
(31:51):
now it looks there's almost exceptions to every rule. Right now,
Jack could do that. I wouldn't recommend teaching that. But
if some good player said I really put better when
I stand over it longer, and when I'm over in
my crouch, that's I have to stay there until I
see behind, I wouldn't object to that. But Gary and
my experience, I've yet to have a man or woman younger, old, good,
(32:15):
or great come to me and say, uh, I need
to think about more, I need to take longer, I
need to try harder. Uh. They always say things like
I put better in practice, I put better in pro ams,
I put better with my friends that I do in tournaments.
I don't have players come back and say to me,
I think I'll put better if I think about ten things.
(32:37):
I think I'll put better if I take longer. I
don't have players say that. So if they did do
that like Jack did, I would be all for that,
because to me, when you want to help someone get better,
you want to create a good pre shot routine. And
that pre shot routine is not just physical, it's mental.
And how you go about thinking that should help you
(33:00):
to hit a better pot or a better shot. And
when we define confidence, and again another thing from Rotel
and competent golfer is somebody that knows where that golf
ball is going to go before they make their swing.
They know they're gonna make that pot before they hit
that pot. And that's what you're trying to do is
help somebody get in that mindset more often. So we
come back to what we said at the beginning of
(33:21):
the show. What wins golf toms is the mind, yes,
and some people are blessed to have that thing called it.
And the other thing is putting you walk off the
green and your three part and a vital moment in
the torment, you feel a little low and you hold.
You hit your drive in the rough the next hole,
and you hit the next well in the bunker, and
(33:43):
you put it and you blade it across the green
and you hold the pot for a pa you walk
off the green lock you've made an eagle. So the
mind is always fluctuating, and that's what you've got to prevent.
You've got to keep that mind positive all the time,
irrespective getting a bad shot is part of the guy him.
That's what people when I see young guys getting upset
when their miss a short part, they stand there and
(34:05):
look at it. Nobody's interested in that, miss it, and
get the hell out of there. I think it's always
the word I always said to myself. The next shot,
the next one, forget that there's nothing you can do
about it. You've got to realize there's nothing you can
do the next one. Go about it with a prositive attitude,
is what you would say. But I'll tell you one
thing I would do if I was a man, start
(34:26):
our youngster playing golf today. I'd start putting cross handed.
And the other thing I would do, remember the genes
of everybody, Like a fingerprint is different. Seven billion people
have seven different fingerprints. Don't when a person, and my
advice to a teacher teaching a young guy come along,
don't alter his genes. Don't alter which is a natural
(34:50):
thing for him to do for another movement in the string.
What once you do that he's finished, You've got to
add to what he's doing and build onto what he's doing.
Don't change his natural kenness. The other wife he's gone.
I love that, Gary, I would say One of the
highlights of my life and career was when you came
up to play our CBS charity Classic UM in Rhode
(35:12):
Island where I grew up at Rhode Island Country. But
what I learned to put and we got paired the
first round with Arnold and Billy Andre, my co host,
and I putted unbelievable that first round. I don't know
what I would have shot on my old ball, but
you made a bunch of punch of Bernie the first hole.
And then when we got to the final hold of
thirty six hole elevated green, you hit that iron shot
(35:33):
in there to about fifteen feet and you had to
make this tie Nick Price and I think Mark Calcibeccio,
and there was a big crowd on that green, And
when I watched you, I felt like I went back
in time. I felt like this was a puppet you
knew you were going to make before you made it.
I don't know if you remember it like I do,
but you got very well. You made that thing right
in the center of the cup. You made the greatest
(35:56):
fist pump and hands raised. And that was Gary player
that I watched on TV growing up for so so
many years, and I think when you when you have it,
like you talked about, it's hard for it to go away.
Sometimes I would say, if you went and looked down
the list I made or the list that you made,
and all those players are in some sort of hall
(36:17):
of fame, what we have traditionally called fundamentals in the
game of golphin and putting, you know we would have
been grip, stance, posture, alignment um. Every single player in
that hall of fame looks different over the putter, right.
They used a different putter, a different way to grip.
They Some stood tall, some crouched down like jack Um,
(36:41):
Some had their hands close to their legs like you did,
like Bobby lock did. Some were more h technically like
Tiger Jason day Um. Other players had different grips like
doing with speed across handed. I don't know if I
would say any of those tradition of fundamentals are what
(37:03):
we would say are applicable that have to do. But
I do think that the best players they did two things.
They generally not always hit the ball in the center
of the putter. They hit the sweet spot, and they
had an incredible ability to put what they saw the
read of the green into motion with the ball. They
could see the path of the arc the ball is
(37:25):
going to take, um and look, is that something that
you can teach or is that something you have to
learn organically by just getting so many puts? Um, you know,
and that would be my one thing. Players had good
ability to read feel, so they could determined break in
speed together. I don't believe that one is just more
(37:46):
important than any other. They hit the center of the
face most of the time, and then that that to me,
would be one thing in common with everybody. Um. The
second part fifth, I remember Ray Floyd saying one time
that you have to get comfortable over the ball. Now,
(38:07):
if you just told an average golfer to get comfortable,
that's not necessarily going to make them in a position
that allows the partner to swing the way it should.
So UM, I would teach totally different to a beginner
golfer than I would to somebody that's played for years
and years. I wouldn't say to you, Gary, you need
(38:28):
to stand up, caroller and move your arms away from
your body if you've never done that in your life
and you've won nine major championships and I'm not doing that.
But if you're the inner golfer and you have no
way you know everybody when you may containing to go
and they that doesn't feel comfortable. Well, sometimes things can't
feel comfortable if you've never done it correctly. So um,
(38:49):
I would say for average golfers, they need to get
a lesson. You can see so much on TV now
on YouTube, you know on what players did. There's almost
too much instruction out there a matter of fact. But
I think the way I would go about teaching champions
offered the first at beginner offers. Bobby Locke said something
to me that I've never heard mentioned ever, and that
(39:13):
is when you put you ought to have the four
to one rule. Now here's your cup. If you put
the board comes at the right speed, it can go
in on the right side, it could go on the
back side, it can go in on the left side,
or it can come in in the front of the cup.
(39:33):
Four chances if you hit it hard. You've only got
one chance. And that was a magnificent And I've never
heard anybody said, you give yourself and if you can
get four to one, go to Vegas on anything that's
good odds so and the other thing is you've got
to visualize. As you said, you've got to be able
to read the green world. Man, that Tiger would read
(39:54):
a green world good without a book. He read all
the great part as I've seen, were great readers of
the mean. And you've got to visualize right speed and
the right the right curve of the ball. You gotta
think you're gonna make it the most good pedest Still,
I've never seen anybody but Well moving all over the
(40:14):
place when they putting. And the other thing, you've got
to accelerate. You cannot hold no shot. Can you play well? Decelerate.
If I was a weekend golf and went out to tomorrow,
I'm going to accelerate my driving. I'm going to accelerate
out of the sand. I'm going to accelerate with my petter.
Acceleration is imperative. All those things are great advice and
(40:37):
coming from one of the greatest players I've ever lived, Gary,
I love that four to one about Bobby lock and
one of them beautiful, and then another thing about Bobby Locks.
He started the um the conversation talking about him being
the greatest player on your list. I know that he
spent some time in Vermont. He did spend some time
with Bob Rotella, and he was very Ben Hogan was
(41:00):
very friendly with an LPGA player named Chris Cheddar who
lived in Fort Worth, and he would often practice and
watch Cris at balls, and Chris asked Bob Rotella to
come have lunch with Ben Hogan and and Rotell a
new Bobby Luck, and Rotella heard from Bobby that he
had said that Ben Hogan was the best putter he
(41:22):
ever saw. Bobby Lock said that about Ben Hogan. And
when Bob Rotella told that to Hogan at that lunch,
this would have been in the eighties, Ben was much
older and lived a few years after. But Rotella told
Ben Bobby Luck said, you're the greatest potter you've ever seen.
Then Hogan actually got cheery eyed at that lunch. Bob said,
so Hogan had to be pretty good. I have played
(41:45):
golf now as professional for just on seventy years plus
minus whatever the number is, and we got a site
to ourselves festiv all. What conditions did we play under?
I mean, you know, you know, we played golf, and
I put Bobby Lock as the best pudder that ever lived.
(42:05):
For assist or reason that I played a lot with
him and I saw it with my own eyes. A
lot of people in America and never ever saw Bobby
lock and he won four British Opens. He came over
here and won seven out of the first eleven tournaments,
and they bared him. They barred him from playing. Nobody
knows that because in those days they could do that
kind of thing. Because he was winning with every almost
(42:30):
every week, they bought him. So the thing is this
that he played on greens where they didn't have mowers
like now. The greens were not even half as good
as now. We as you know, we played with spike
marks in our entire career. Two spike marks on every green.
You didn't have a mower that could zoom across the
green that you know, ten miles an hour and cut
(42:52):
the green like a snooker table. Actually, the greens that
played today are equivalent to a snooker table. We never
saw that once in our life. So that's another thing
that we've got to think about. The Other thing is
they even put the pins in the same place every day. Now,
you tell a young guy a few things that actually
transpired when we played. They never changed the cups one day.
(43:15):
Bobby Jones playing under those conditions. Bobby locked it in
my first start of my career. They didn't change the cups.
So you know now, and you've got a cup that
you putting too for four straight days. That cup ain't
round anymore. It's it's been, it's it's risen. So they
keep the ball out of the hole, isn't allowed to
go in. Yeah, So that's to me, is fascinating. But
(43:36):
Bobby Luck, he put it under the most wicked conditions
and I'm telling you something has been Hogan said, He said,
you had to see it to believe it. Sam Snead
played Bobby Lock in South Africa twenty two matches Bobby
Lock one eighteen. They tied to and Snead and his
prime one two and Sneak came back and said, listen, guys,
(43:57):
you've bet a bet. You've bet a bet. There's bit
this guy, Bobby Lock. You bet a bit him and
the Torments and a lot of guys and Clayton Heffner
bought a farm in Charlotte, not a farm, excuse me,
a golf course, in fact, thirty six holes backing Lock
against Hogan. Sneed the merit Mangram. All the great players
that existed in those days, and not a lot of
(44:18):
young players today. They don't realize how many great players
they were in those days. But be that asn't made.
You had to actually be around Lock to see how
he putted. And I give him the nod because if
he put it on greens like this, I don't know
what we would have seen. But on the other hand,
Tiger woods, it's hard. Actually we have to give Lock
(44:38):
and Tiger tie because Tiger hole amazing puts on the
last green. Now you know, Brad, if you hold a
put on the second hole or you hold a put
on the lost hole, it counts the same, except people, people,
millions of people are seeing you do it on the
lost hole. And Tiger was a king at doing that.
And I admired his part. Uh, it's interesting to see
(45:03):
that you never put Jordan's speed in and you mentioned
Jordan's speek. Now, Jordan's speech to me in the world today,
There's no question about it. Jordan's speak from a hundred
yards in is the best player in the world, without
a question. He's long game. I think, in my my
humble opinion, he has four faults in his swing, and
when he finds those out, he he if Jordan's Spee
(45:25):
could find what's wrong with his swing, he would be
number one in the world because he holds three chip
shots at August on those greens. Jordan's Spee, I love him.
He's a great American. People love him. He looks after
his family. I just adore that. And but watch out
when he finds out, when he finds out how to
(45:46):
swing that golf club, the guy is gonna have to
watch out. And I'm sure he will find out, and
then he's He's like that in factor. And of all
the players playing golf today, Jordan of speed has deep
its defector. Now are you keen on the cross handed putting? Interestingly,
(46:09):
I when I first got on a tour, there was
a putting instructor named Dave Pell's. Pell's helped Tom kite Um.
He had done some studies that showed that cross handed
was an easier way to put for for players than
I am. I'm very right handed with everything that I do,
and when I when I put, I feel like I
(46:30):
used my right side. So I feel like the left
for cross handing for me would take the right side
out and it would be more of a pulling action.
But you know, We've seen what Bryson the Shambo has
done with his arm lock. You know when he's when
he's put that shaft against the side of his left arm. Um,
and Bernard Langer was one of the first to do that.
We see Webb Simpson arm lock. We see Matt Coucher
(46:52):
do that. Um talk about things that I think should
be illegal are not allowed by the U. S g
a UM. I think crossing and it's nice, but I'm
not a big fan of this armlock. I don't think
I've said that's The founding fathers of our game wanted
a free swinging club. They didn't want something attached to
your body. That I agree with you. I like anchoring
(47:15):
at all. But bread, this has really been so nice
talking to you because we both love golf. We love
to see golf go ahead. We want to see young
people come out and be champions and play the game.
To be grateful in life, Gratitude is a big thing,
and to have the opportunity of living this country that
(47:36):
ever existed is an honor. God bless you and God
bless America. Gerry Uh, I love spending a minute with you,
never mind an hour. Thank you so much for having me.
You've been an inspiration in my life too, for me
and my love of the game. I hope when I'm five,
I can break my age by one shot once. So
(47:58):
thank you for having me. I can't wait to get
to the golf course. I'm going out to hit right now.
All right, take it bread, Godless. Don't forget to subscribe
to the Player series on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you
get your podcast.
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