December 25, 2023 • 40 mins
Feeling stuck and dissatisfied with where you are in your life is never a place we want to be in. Perhaps you are contemplating a major life change - moving to a new city, quitting your job, leaving a long term relationship - that you believe will be the antidote to your future happiness and fulfilment. Psychology shows that this might not always be the case. Wanting to change something about our environment may reflect that the true change we need to make is internal.
We are joined by Dr Lisa Marie Bobby, host of the Love, Happiness and Success podcast as she talks us through the unexpected ways we can unlock and begin our next chapter in life. Listen now!
Follow Dr Lisa: https://www.instagram.com/drlisamariebobby/?hl=en
Her website: https://www.the-happiness-class.com/?page_id=30819
Follow me on Instagram: @jemmasbeg
Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, or
wherever you are in the world, it is so great
to have you here, back for another episode where we
break down this Psychology of your twenties. Something that I
think a lot of us struggle with, deal with, have
on our minds is feeling kind of stagnant in the
(00:48):
moment that we're in and in our current life chapter
or life season, I guess, and that is something I've
personally been thinking about a lot. The further I get
into my twenties, the more I'm kind of hungering for
a life change, And I thought, why not bring on
one of my favorite podcasts. Is one of my favorite
people actually who has helped me and given me advice
(01:11):
even if she doesn't know it through her show, Love,
Happiness and Success, to share some of her wisdom with us.
So welcome Doctor Lisa, Marie Bobby, thank you for coming
on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
You are too kind and I'm flattered and honored that
you listen to the podcast, and it's so wonderful to
know that it's been helpful for you. I mean, that's fantastic.
That's why I make them so mission accomplished.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, well, it's so interesting. I was saying to this
to you before. People always ask me, like, what do
you listen to, And I'm like, I listen to this show.
I listened to your show. I feel like it's so
interesting because I'm sure a lot of people listen to
this as their source of wisdom and their source of advice.
But I think also like the advice giver also needs,
(01:57):
you know, the advice of others, and also needs like
the note about this as well. So thank you so
much for the work you do. You want to explain
a little bit more about who you are, your approach,
your maybe journey to where you are now.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, no, happy too, so so yeah, Lisa, Marie Bobby Gosh,
my journey starting in my twenties trying to figure out
what the heck I was going to do in the world.
And I went through a period in my twenties where
I felt very lost and unclear as well. And actually
we could talk more about this. So my pivotal moment
(02:34):
in my twenties was nine to eleven, so the terrible
you know, terrorist attacks. My cousin actually was killed in
he worked at one of the World Traits enter buildings.
It was awful, But it was this crisis where I
was like, what am I doing with my life? And
it really led me to do a lot of personal
(02:56):
soul searching. And it was right after that that I
decided to go back to school to become a therapist,
which I began in my twenties. I since became a
marriage and family therapist and then did a doctoral degree,
became a licensed psychologist, pursued coaching as a career path,
which has been really exciting for me, and so I
(03:16):
founded a private practice it's called Growing Self Counseling and Coaching,
and we have you know, fifty plus therapists running around
here these days. And also started the Love, Happiness and
Success podcast kind of as a hobby because I love,
you know, talking about personal growth and self development and
one of the values that I connected with when I
(03:37):
was in my twenties related, you know, with everything that
I went through, realized how important it was for me
personally to be of service to other people. And so
that's why I started doing my podcast. It is to
like share things and advice and knowledge and put it
out into the world. And that I mean, so when
you were talking about the fact that you enjoy the
show and that you've benefited from it, like, that's why
(03:58):
I do this. And I can't tell you how happy
that just made me.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Here. Oh my goodness, well, I'm so glad that I could.
I don't know, I don't know encouragement, but just to
share the love. I guess it's so nice when people
say that to me, so I'm sure that, yeah, it's
good to pass that on to everybody who you also
benefit from. I want to go back to that kind
of pivotal moment because I feel like that is firstly
(04:22):
so tragic. I'm so sorry that that happened, But I
think it's also something that a lot of people in
their twenties might relate to, having some major life change,
some maybe not a tragedy, but a major life event
that kind of puts them onto a completely different path.
(04:43):
And in other senses, it can also be so gradual,
right like this gradual loss of self, this gradual loss
of belonging this gradual sense of like, I just feel
really stuck in my life. So why do you think that?
Why do you think we get to those points where
(05:03):
we realize that we need to change. Is it just
because of those things, those kind of existential moments that
make us question a purpose or is there something deeper
or something more gradual that happens there?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, Well, I'll tell you a secret actually that I
don't think has talked about enough in our culture, is
that the reason we all grow is not despite the
challenges and the hard times that we go through, it's
really because of them. I'm a big believer in that
we really kind of need to make contact with our
(05:37):
dark emotions and because that's like where a lot of
our inner wisdom really is. And it's only when you
go through something challenging. If it's a crisis like a
building blowing up in a terrorist attack, that would be
one example, but also there it really is a crisis.
When you get to this place in your life and
you're like, I don't know who I am or what
(05:57):
I want or what I'm doing. Like to really like
recognize that and sit with those feelings, it brings up
a lot of pain, and that too can be its
own kind of crisis that can catalyze a lot of
really important growth work and personal development. I think people
that are just kind of happy to be here and
bopping along and feeling good, they don't they don't get
(06:18):
to do that, they don't have a reason to do that.
And so I think the shift comes and really like
appreciating the hard times for what they are, which are
these fantastic opportunities that often go unrecognized. You know, we
try to make it go away rather than understanding them
for the guests they are. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It makes so much sense. It reminds me of this
quote my mum always says to me, which is you
can either choose to be comfortable, you can choose to grow.
And so it's in those moments of yeah, in those
moments of the greatest discomfort, that we find ourselves changing
the most for the beta. But I still think that
it's really difficult when when you get to that point
(06:58):
and you're like, it's in interesting what you said. There
are some people who are happy to just kind of
go with the flow and happy to go along with
the status quo. I'm sure that the people listening to
this and perhaps not those people, and perhaps facing a
lot of confusion. How do you navigate that? How do
you navigate feeling simultaneously quite stuck and also wanting more
(07:22):
for yourself? Like, what are some of the steps to
move into that next chapter of your life when you
realize that perhaps you are unhappy.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, that's a really good question, and it's a multi
layered answer, because I want to be honest with you
and your listeners, and so to not give some trait
like thing that I mean, the truth really is that,
first of all, it requires a period of exploration in
(07:52):
order to understand what is at the core of the
happiness and dissatisfaction, and that in itself can be difficult
to wrap your arms around sometimes, you know, like the
sort of nebulous dissatisfaction that being able to get clarity
and articulate what it's attached to, and so like that's
(08:17):
one of the reasons why it can be helpful either
to talk to a therapist or also like just to
do some journaling is to get under your own hood
and like what is going on? Is it something that
I'm doing that I actually don't like that much? Is
it something that I'm not doing like I am. I
(08:37):
missing something that I wish was here. But that's really
the first chapter is just beginning to get clarity around
who you are, what you want, and like naming the
pain points. Once that's clear, then you can begin to
develop a vision of a life that had the changes
(09:00):
that we're in alignment with how you imagine you know
things would be for you to feel happier. But that
growth can also go in a different direction too, that
I'm happy to share more about if it would be helpful.
The other thing there are two pieces of this. One
piece is that sometimes the reason we feel dissatisfied is
(09:24):
that we're living a life that is not really in
alignment with who we are, what our values are, what
we want, and it's important to understand that so that
you can make a plan to change your life circumstances
so that it's more congruent with who you are and
what you really want. That's kind of door number one.
(09:45):
The other thing that is also true is that many
times it's not our life circumstances at all that are
leading to our feeling unhappy or dissatisfied. It's more about
how we are functioning on the inside. So that if
we don't do that internal work, it doesn't matter how
(10:07):
differently your life changes in terms of the day to day,
because you're still going to feel the same way you
do right now.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I honestly really relate to that. I feel like I've
had points where I've felt that if I just changed
something about my circumstances, everything else will fall into place.
I moved to Sydney with that belief where I was like,
all Right, the source of all my problems is this
town that I'm living in, and if I just change
(10:35):
my environment, I'm going to change everything else that comes
with it. And you realize that your problems do change,
do not leave you if you think that you're leaving
them behind, like they are so much more internal than
they are external. Can you explain that a little bit
more in terms of like how to manage that? Because
I feel like the first option there to realize that
(10:59):
you're dissatisfied because it doesn't match the vision of your life,
engage in some of that exploration and find something perhaps
more purposeful that, although it is still difficult, feels like
the simpler path. Yeah, But that second path of being like,
actually there is something internally that is making you realize
(11:20):
that you are dissatisfied and unfulfilled and creating all of
these other, like secondary mental consequences. That sounds like such amaze.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, it absolutely is. And it's so easy for all
of us to get tricked into believing that, you know,
I'll be happy when I have a different career, I
live in a different place, or I'll be it a relationship,
or you know, meet some health goal. Right, And this
was actually researched pretty extensively Martin Seligman. He was a
(11:55):
past president of APA and he's the one of the
thought leaders around the school of psychology called positive psychology,
and he identified this a long time ago, and he
called it the hedonic treadmill. And so what it is
is this belief that you know, we all pursue these
goals or these changes or these circumstances, getting the career
(12:17):
or the house or a new car or whatever, and
then arrive at whatever, you know, the top of that
mountain was, and discover that we feel pretty much the
same way that we did before we achieved whatever those
goals were. And now it's absolutely valuable to design a
life that you want to live in, right, And pursue
circumstances and life experiences that you feel good about. Nobody's
(12:39):
mad at that. But the work that we're talking about
now is really getting under the hood to understand why
your sort of emotional thermostat is set at this kind
of constant level. No matter what. That work requires understanding
a number of different things. How you're talking to yourself
(13:01):
has a lot to do with it, Like the kind
of relationship that you're having with yourself, your inner dialogue
can be a big piece of that. Also, I think
managing your expectations for who you are and like what
life is supposed to feel like is a big piece
of that. And I think, you know, especially on the
(13:21):
theme of your podcast, I mean the psychology of your twenties.
I think that a lot of us and I certainly
had this when I was in my twenties, have these
ideas about the way things are supposed to be or
like how other people feel like happier better than I do.
And I think it takes a while to arrive at
(13:41):
the fact that a lot of life is pretty you know,
we have ups and downs, and to feel kind of
average or neutral a lot of the time is actually
normal and when people are thinking that they should be
feeling differently than life is. Actually life can make them
worry that something is wrong. You see this with people
(14:04):
in long term relationships or dating, or you know, in
a career. And I think there's a lot of actually
long term satisfaction and inner piece that comes from embracing
the fact that all of life is kind of a
mixed bag, and that peak experiences can happen and we
(14:24):
can have moments of joy, but a lot of life
is just fairly neutral. So then the work becomes how
to find gratitude and meeting and appreciation and satisfaction in
the things that are really pretty ordinary, because the anxiety
that like something is wrong is one of the things
that will reliably make you feel dissatisfied no matter what.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah. Yeah, And that social comparison as well, I guess
like I think that is the biggest thefe of joy
of people in our twenties, and I hear it all
the time. We have this constant source of comparison being
social media, where I can look online and see someone's
(15:09):
impeccable highlight reel of all of the best moments of
their life and the blanks those days that they don't
feel great and not filled in, and sometimes I know
that I'm guilty of doing this as well. Like I
was telling you, I've been quite ill these last few weeks.
There's nothing really going on in my camera role or
(15:30):
my life right now. Like I'm not going to big events.
I'm not celebrating career milestones. I'm not partying or anything
like that. I'm just in like a bit of a
rut stage, like a bit of a flag stage, and
I'm not posting about that online. I'm not giving people
the candid side of things. And I think that that
(15:52):
is so spot on what you just said, of looking
of that false belief that everyone else is happier than us,
that something should be a certain way is really rubbing
us avout ability to be deeply satisfied in what we have.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree, because you know, there's so
much image management and the things that go out into
the world versus the reality of what day to day
life is actually like and how you know, just maddening
and frustrating. It could be some example, right if you
look at my social media stuff, there's reels and like
(16:31):
the business and the podcast giving people advice, like I
know what I'm doing, and just this morning trying to
order pizzas online. I have people coming over later today
for Halloween. Couldn't find my bank card anywhere. And then
when I did try to use the bank card, it's like,
you know, I had to move money to the debit account.
It's like just all these tiny little frustrations. And then
(16:53):
like I hadn't put the laundry away, so I couldn't
find the sweater that I wanted to wear. It's just
one thing after another, right, and these are all like
little minor irritations. But I was like that, and none
of that goes out into the world. And so even
for me, like I've been working on this stuff for
twenty years, and I'm thinking, why am I getting so
stressed out about all this stuff? And like my house
(17:13):
is a wreck, I can't find anything, and just blah
blah blah blah blah, and really like feeling so annoyed,
and then had to like talk myself down, use all
these skills, like shift my thoughts to a better feeling
place so that I could go into work, you know,
and have a reasonably nice day. But it's so easy
to go down that rabbit hole of like what is
wrong with me? And especially when it comes to relationships.
(17:38):
Oh my goodness, Like I can't tell you how many
clients I've worked with that you know, they've they've been single,
they want to partner, They get into a relationship, you know,
they meet a nice person who is annoying and disappointing
in their own ways, and just like this, You know,
everybody's a mixed bag like this is. You're gonna have
(18:00):
some of these experiences in every relationship, but there's some
you know, perfectionistic ideal in their mind that makes them
feel so badly about the relationship or the life that
they have. It's hard.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Oh I can imagine that so hard. It's something I've
actually encountered where I've I'm in a long term relationship now,
but when we first started dating, I was like, why
does this feel boring? Like this? And it felt so
safe that I was like, this feels boring. Everyone's told
me that there needs to be this like insane intimacy
(18:34):
and passion and chemistry chemistry, and I was like yeah,
And I was like, there is chemistry and there's compatibility,
but this person is not like making me run on
a treadmill for their affection. That's what I feel like
is exciting. I feel like I've gone off on a
tangent because I'm just like lapping up your words here.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
But it's probably my fault.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I know.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I love for going off on random tangents. So welcome
to my world.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
So am I. I feel like that we're matchma in heaven.
But I feel like to bring it back to that
idea of starting that next chapter in your life, perhaps
that first the first way to do that is to
appreciate or to gain a more realistic view of what
life actually is. And that's not to say that life
isn't going to be full of surprises and full of
(19:19):
excitement and full of amazing moments, but that that is
not going to be happening all of the time. Like
changing something external about your life isn't going to suddenly
remove what is the deepest satisfaction from self comparison or
(19:39):
social comparison, or from unrealistic expectations about how you should
be feeling on a day to day. So I feel
like that's our first collective tip on moving toward the
next chapter.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Well, and even to add to that is to end
that work of wanting a new chapter to get under
our hood of doing some journaling, talking to a counselor
or a coach around what are my themes? What have
been the patterns and the repeating experiences that I've had
(20:15):
in all of these different chapters that I've had so far,
because that can give you insight into some of those
inner changes that we need to make in order to
have an actually different experience in the next chapter that
we want to create.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
What are some of those themes, because I'm trying to
think of some in my own life that I'm getting stuck.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, okay, well, I mean themes could include feeling persistently
dissatisfied in relationships and having this grass is Greener thing
going on, you know, no matter who you're with, And
so the patterns would be ending relationships with perfectly nice
people because you don't feel the chemistry or you're not
(20:57):
having like this next level experience that you think that
you're going to have, changing jobs or moving like I
think when you've cycled through what you were talking about,
like moving to Sydney, and like, I've made all these
changes and why do I still feel the same way?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You know?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That can help give insight into what's really going on.
Let's see what would be examples of other themes, you know,
the day to day things that stress you out, like
your kind of how do I usually feel on the inside.
If you can quantify those and articulate them, that helps
(21:35):
you understand what the next chapter could really involve. That
would be a substantial change. So, like an example in
my own life, as you may have inferred from the
previous story about not being able to find the debit
card and the laundry still isn't put away.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
But I.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Am a lifelong individual of who has an ADHD. I
didn't know that when I was younger, in my twenties.
I had no idea that that's part of what was
going on for me. And being able was in my
thirties actually like finally connecting those dots. But I had
to go through a period of time where all of
(22:14):
these different chapters of my life, the common theme was
feeling disorganized, feeling kind of chaotic, feeling like, you know,
not really showing up in the way that I wanted to.
And so it was really funny, Okay, what's the common
theme here? Wasn't It wasn't the environment. What's happening in
(22:35):
terms of my practices and ways of being that's contributing
to me having these experiences over and over and over again,
and obviously still a work in progress, but like being
able to identify the kinds of systems or practices that
can help us be more of what we want to
be and how feel more of how we want to
(22:57):
feel is really the long term solution when it comes
to designing that new chapter that's based on the outcomes
you want to have.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That makes so much sense. I also feel like i've
I'm really sitting here being like, oh, I need to
probably identify my themes because that one of moving is
incredibly relevant to me. Like any yeah, I always get this.
I feel like it's interesting. I came into this really
wanting to talk to you about this, you know, starting
(23:28):
this new chapter in life, because I was like, ah,
I'm considering moving, and then you said what are the themes?
And I was like, ah, every time I start to
feel a little bit stagnant or bored, I immediately am like,
you know what's gonna make me feel better? Move a move.
I'm like, because nothing is more exciting in life, more
(23:49):
of a challenge than a move. It's like, how can
life be boring when you have to, when you try
to make new friends, when you're discovering a completely novel environment,
when you're you know, building a new life, decorating a
new home, like all of those things. And so I've
really had I'm sitting back and thinking about it. In
some cases though, I do think that we do need
(24:12):
to take risks like that. Yeah, Like there are moments
where it's like, it might actually be that there is
something in your external life that is not right for
you right It might it might be that you are
working a job or in a career that is deeply unfulfilling,
and you've always had this sense of I want to
(24:33):
do something more, I want to do something different. Maybe
I want to do something more creative. How do we
approach that to know that that is actually what we
want to do versus what we feel like will make
us happier. I think that our approach to risks in
that sense, I always promote risk taking, not like jumping
(24:55):
off a bridge or whatever, but like risk taking in
the sense that, like, it's better to do the thing
than to not do the thing, You'll minimize regret in
the future. Is that always the case when we're thinking
about big life changes.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Say this like a true therapist. It depends, I absolutely,
I mean to have the confidence and the courage to
take risks in service of you know, your goals, your values,
the life you want. I completely agree with that, and
I think there, for me, from my perspective, no bigger
(25:28):
regret than not doing something that you wanted to do.
And especially you know, talking with people sometimes at the
end of their lives, that's what they talk about. Aren't
the things they did, It was the things that they
didn't do. So I think there's a lot of wisdom
in that. I also think that you really touched on
something important though, which is this theme, this pattern of
(25:52):
how do I know if I'm taking a risk that
is going to get me to a different place where
I will feel differently and I'll finally feel more satisfied,
or whether or not I'm you know, putting myself into
a new situation with these false expectations that it's the
circumstances that are going to change the way I feel.
(26:14):
And so obviously I don't want to start unpacking your
stuff here on your podcast in front of all of
your listeners, but well, questions, I would you know encourage
everybody to be think about, thinking about, or doing some
journaling about is what do I imagine would be different
for me if I lived in a different town or
(26:37):
a different career, for example, and be specific, you know,
like how would I be feeling and why? And as
you're asking yourself those questions, be thinking about is this
connected to my values or my meaning? And why am
(26:59):
I attaching it to this specific career or relationship or
location that I might be moving to. And the real
power question is what would need to be different about
the way I was showing up here and now if
I wanted to feel this way right this very second
to begin to differentiate? Like am I chasing a false
(27:25):
idea and missing the opportunity for growing in place? I
see this oftentimes in people who change careers. Right they've
decided that there's something about their job or their employer
or whatever that doesn't feel good for them anymore. And
sometimes legitimately that's true. They have better opportunities elsewhere, so godspeed,
go do that. But when people just get out of
(27:48):
one job and into another without really growing in place
and thinking about what is actually going on with me
that I'm feeling so stressed out about my job. They
don't get to uncover the fact that maybe it's difficult
for them to manage their time effectively or set boundaries
(28:10):
or organize their work in a way to be effective.
But they don't look at how they're operating in their job.
They attach it to the job itself, and in doing so,
lose a really great opportunity for personal growth.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I also feel like it's this fear of a sense
of stagnation as well, fear of a sense of am
I going to waste my life doing this thing? Am
I going to waste my life in this job? Am
I going to waste my life in this relationship? Am
I going to waste my life in this city around
these people? And it's that fear of I think it's
(28:49):
almost like existential dread of being like I understand, and
I'm I guess we as a collective understand that we
really only get one life based on your beliefs, That's
what I've If you get one life, you have to
live it as best as you can. And I think
sometimes being so fearful that we're not living it as
best as we can actually creates patterns of behavior. As
(29:12):
you were saying that maybe a form of self sabotage, right,
actually undermining our true sense of purpose, our true vision,
our true dedication to our actual selves because we're pursuing
a different version of us that has been created by fear,
like a fear of not doing enough, a fear of
missing out. How do we how do we approach that
(29:36):
with balance? The balance of Like, yes, taking risks is
part of how I see my life, for example, like
going and doing a bunch of solo travel is something
that I see is integral to my life. Hiking Everest
is one of my biggest life goals. Or yes, I
(29:56):
do want to, you know, move to a new city
where I know no body. How can we manage both
of those needs? The need to firstly have a stable
sense of self and do that self work of Like
maybe this is internal versus the need to also push
beyond our comfort zone in ways that might leave us
(30:21):
feeling perhaps more lost, or might make us feel more content.
Does that make sense? Like do you understand this balance
that I'm trying to really get to?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I do I do? How to? I think what you're
saying it's like almost how to know what to trust?
And like, what is the path that would help you,
you know, And so I guess what I would be
thinking about is drilling down into the values that are
(30:54):
defining your sense of what is important. Like you taught
you use this phrase like I don't want to waste
my life, and so what would be happening if your
life were wasted? And like, to use your example, there
was a value around experiencing new things like having adventures, novelty, right,
(31:22):
like pushing your limits. Those are values. And so it's like,
what you're saying is that if I'm not expressing these values,
that would mean that my life wasn't worth living, that
I had wasted my life somehow. And so I think
there's a lot of valuable exploration that comes from getting
(31:44):
into what is valuable and meaningful to each of us
as individuals. So, like going back to the story that
I started with when I was in my twenties and
this huge new chapter of opened up for me. I
had been working in jobs where I was just kind
(32:04):
of there. It wasn't really attached to any personal meaning
or any of my own life values, and I wasn't
clear at that time about what those things were. And
it was only after you know, going through that crisis
right and thinking about I could die at any second.
My cousin Jimmy was in his office on the top
(32:26):
of the World Trade Center, mining his own business, drinking
a cup of coffeet nine o'clock in the morning, and
an airplane came through the window and it just like
took away the certainty that your life is just going
to go on forever. And so it pushed me into
contact with this idea of you know, at the end
of my life, looking back, what would have been made
my life worth living? And part of that really was
(32:49):
I want to be of service to other people, Like
if I could figure out a way to help other
people grow or be helpful to them in some ways,
and that could go in a lot of different directions
in terms of a career path. But in order for
me to feel like my life had been worth something,
it would have been making a positive impact in the
(33:09):
lives of other people. But that's the kind of value
exploration I'm talking about, because when we can understand that,
that's where you begin to feel confident about I'm making
the right decision, because you're comparing your life choices to
the values that you've clarified for yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Rather than someone else's values.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Oh my goodness, Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Absolutely, that makes so much sense to me. And I
think it's so interesting because we're talking about, you know,
starting the next chapter in your life, right, and maybe
like the next chapter is not that big life change
that you feel you need to make, it's actually sitting
down in that self appraisal and that real deep dive
(33:57):
into what do I actually want from my life? What
are my values here? What is my vision? And I
think what is genuinely going to make me happy and
satisfied in the long term, rather than just as an
instantaneous kind of blip on the radar, like a little
(34:17):
bit of an outlier, you know, Like I think back
to that example of people who leave relationships with people
that they might deeply love just because they don't meet
some vision for what they for a fairy tale romance.
Obviously that's totally your call, but I think it's interesting
that that actually might leave us in a place where
(34:39):
we are alone, even though our struggle has been to
not be alone. So's it's kind of counter to what
we actually expected it to be the outcome, and also
counter to perhaps our vision and our value to find
someone we love and settle down and have them in
our life. So I think that was excellent advice and
I feel like perhaps different than what people expected.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
But I know. But that's the thing. I think. When
you get clear about your values, it then becomes easy
to make decisions on a day to day basis, because
all you have to do is compare to a course
of action. Is this in alignment with my values or not?
Another piece of this to try to get that clarity
(35:23):
around going into a next chapter, taking a risk and
being reasonably confident that it's the right risk. So, for example,
me going back to counseling school, tons of money, tons
of time. I didn't know if I was going to
like it as a career, but having that values clarity
helped me be like, I'm going to try this. I'm
(35:45):
going to try this. I'm glad I did. But the
other thing to be aware of is that it's not
just that we hold values. And so it could be adventure,
being of service, family, unconditional love, financial security, spirituality, all
of these, but it's also organizing these values in terms
of importance. Because somebody whose value of financial security is
(36:11):
a higher priority value than being generous or having adventures,
their life is going to look very different because they're
going to be making choices that prioritizes one value over another.
So that's where, you know, a lot of introspection and
self clarity becomes very important when you're thinking about designing
(36:34):
a new chapter.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, understanding what you're actually motivated by as well.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I think correct, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
So I feel like you've created a lot of self
introspection for me and things for me to go away with.
I hope that there are others who are listening to
this who are perhaps contemplating ending a relationship, starting in
your career, quitting a job that they once thought was
their dream job, who were better able to sit back
(37:08):
and be like, is this new life chapter really what
I think it is? Or is it kind of a
proxy for not wanting to change something internally that's going
to lead me disatisfy no matter where I am. So
I want to thank you so much for coming on
to the show and for joining us.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Oh well, thank you again for inviting me. This is
a great conversation, and I do hope that this conversation
was helpful for your listeners and starting to get clarity
and confidence to know what the what the next chapter involves,
is it changing circumstances, doing some personal growth work that
changes their own inner landscape. But the real value is
(37:50):
getting clear on our meaning, our values, our purpose and
then making decisions that are based on that.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Absolutely, I feel like that is such a value insight,
such valuable advice. So thank you so much for sharing
it like it was. Yeah, it was. It was a
beautiful episode, So thank you for coming on. Where can
people find you? Obviously we've spoken about your own podcast
if they want to listen to more Love, Happiness and Success.
(38:18):
Do you have an Instagram? Do you have anywhere they
can follow along with your journey and what you're working on?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Oh, thank you for asking. Yes, the Love, Happiness and
Success Podcast. Welcome to listen. I recently started doing this
video version so they can come hang out in my
office on YouTube for the Love, Happiness and Success Podcast. Also, yes,
certainly do Instagram at doctor Lisa Marie Bobbie, but really
(38:45):
on my website growingself dot com. So there Another value
and source of meaning for me is being able to
write and put information out to the world, and so
there is an extensive blog with all kinds of articles
and podcasts, playlists that I put together for people and
(39:06):
for your listeners if they come to the blog and
podcast page. I have everything organized into like content collections,
so to come into the Happiness collection, and then there's
a little cluster of articles and podcasts around holistic life
design that I think would be really helpful for people
who are in this space of what where do I go?
(39:28):
What decision do I make in terms of relationship or career?
That would be more information for them on this topic
and all completely free. I just put it out into
the world because one of my values is being of service.
So there we are.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, so generous. I'm actually gonna go look at that
holistic life design. I'll give you, yes, please do. I
feel like so many of us now twenties need that, Like,
I'm sure there are so many people listening to this
being like I am so terribly absolutely lost. Some life
design probably would really benefit me. So thank you for
doing all of that for us, for people like you,
(40:02):
for people like me. I just want to say again,
really appreciate you coming on board. If you enjoyed this episode,
please feel free to leave a five star review on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening right now and
make sure that you are following for future episodes. If
you also have a future episode suggestion, or you just
want to reach out, you just want to chat, you
(40:22):
want to see what's going on behind the scenes. You
can follow along at that Psychology podcast on Instagram and
as always, we will be back next week with another episode.
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, or
wherever you are in the world, it is so great
to have you here, back for another episode where we
break down this Psychology of your twenties. Something that I
think a lot of us struggle with, deal with, have
on our minds is feeling kind of stagnant in the
(00:48):
moment that we're in and in our current life chapter
or life season, I guess, and that is something I've
personally been thinking about a lot. The further I get
into my twenties, the more I'm kind of hungering for
a life change, And I thought, why not bring on
one of my favorite podcasts. Is one of my favorite
people actually who has helped me and given me advice
(01:11):
even if she doesn't know it through her show, Love,
Happiness and Success, to share some of her wisdom with us.
So welcome Doctor Lisa, Marie Bobby, thank you for coming
on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
You are too kind and I'm flattered and honored that
you listen to the podcast, and it's so wonderful to
know that it's been helpful for you. I mean, that's fantastic.
That's why I make them so mission accomplished.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, well, it's so interesting. I was saying to this
to you before. People always ask me, like, what do
you listen to, And I'm like, I listen to this show.
I listened to your show. I feel like it's so
interesting because I'm sure a lot of people listen to
this as their source of wisdom and their source of advice.
But I think also like the advice giver also needs,
(01:57):
you know, the advice of others, and also needs like
the note about this as well. So thank you so
much for the work you do. You want to explain
a little bit more about who you are, your approach,
your maybe journey to where you are now.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, no, happy too, so so yeah, Lisa, Marie Bobby Gosh,
my journey starting in my twenties trying to figure out
what the heck I was going to do in the world.
And I went through a period in my twenties where
I felt very lost and unclear as well. And actually
we could talk more about this. So my pivotal moment
(02:34):
in my twenties was nine to eleven, so the terrible
you know, terrorist attacks. My cousin actually was killed in
he worked at one of the World Traits enter buildings.
It was awful, But it was this crisis where I
was like, what am I doing with my life? And
it really led me to do a lot of personal
(02:56):
soul searching. And it was right after that that I
decided to go back to school to become a therapist,
which I began in my twenties. I since became a
marriage and family therapist and then did a doctoral degree,
became a licensed psychologist, pursued coaching as a career path,
which has been really exciting for me, and so I
(03:16):
founded a private practice it's called Growing Self Counseling and Coaching,
and we have you know, fifty plus therapists running around
here these days. And also started the Love, Happiness and
Success podcast kind of as a hobby because I love,
you know, talking about personal growth and self development and
one of the values that I connected with when I
(03:37):
was in my twenties related, you know, with everything that
I went through, realized how important it was for me
personally to be of service to other people. And so
that's why I started doing my podcast. It is to
like share things and advice and knowledge and put it
out into the world. And that I mean, so when
you were talking about the fact that you enjoy the
show and that you've benefited from it, like, that's why
(03:58):
I do this. And I can't tell you how happy
that just made me.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Here. Oh my goodness, well, I'm so glad that I could.
I don't know, I don't know encouragement, but just to
share the love. I guess it's so nice when people
say that to me, so I'm sure that, yeah, it's
good to pass that on to everybody who you also
benefit from. I want to go back to that kind
of pivotal moment because I feel like that is firstly
(04:22):
so tragic. I'm so sorry that that happened, But I
think it's also something that a lot of people in
their twenties might relate to, having some major life change,
some maybe not a tragedy, but a major life event
that kind of puts them onto a completely different path.
(04:43):
And in other senses, it can also be so gradual,
right like this gradual loss of self, this gradual loss
of belonging this gradual sense of like, I just feel
really stuck in my life. So why do you think that?
Why do you think we get to those points where
(05:03):
we realize that we need to change. Is it just
because of those things, those kind of existential moments that
make us question a purpose or is there something deeper
or something more gradual that happens there?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, Well, I'll tell you a secret actually that I
don't think has talked about enough in our culture, is
that the reason we all grow is not despite the
challenges and the hard times that we go through, it's
really because of them. I'm a big believer in that
we really kind of need to make contact with our
(05:37):
dark emotions and because that's like where a lot of
our inner wisdom really is. And it's only when you
go through something challenging. If it's a crisis like a
building blowing up in a terrorist attack, that would be
one example, but also there it really is a crisis.
When you get to this place in your life and
you're like, I don't know who I am or what
(05:57):
I want or what I'm doing. Like to really like
recognize that and sit with those feelings, it brings up
a lot of pain, and that too can be its
own kind of crisis that can catalyze a lot of
really important growth work and personal development. I think people
that are just kind of happy to be here and
bopping along and feeling good, they don't they don't get
(06:18):
to do that, they don't have a reason to do that.
And so I think the shift comes and really like
appreciating the hard times for what they are, which are
these fantastic opportunities that often go unrecognized. You know, we
try to make it go away rather than understanding them
for the guests they are. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It makes so much sense. It reminds me of this
quote my mum always says to me, which is you
can either choose to be comfortable, you can choose to grow.
And so it's in those moments of yeah, in those
moments of the greatest discomfort, that we find ourselves changing
the most for the beta. But I still think that
it's really difficult when when you get to that point
(06:58):
and you're like, it's in interesting what you said. There
are some people who are happy to just kind of
go with the flow and happy to go along with
the status quo. I'm sure that the people listening to
this and perhaps not those people, and perhaps facing a
lot of confusion. How do you navigate that? How do
you navigate feeling simultaneously quite stuck and also wanting more
(07:22):
for yourself? Like, what are some of the steps to
move into that next chapter of your life when you
realize that perhaps you are unhappy.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, that's a really good question, and it's a multi
layered answer, because I want to be honest with you
and your listeners, and so to not give some trait
like thing that I mean, the truth really is that,
first of all, it requires a period of exploration in
(07:52):
order to understand what is at the core of the
happiness and dissatisfaction, and that in itself can be difficult
to wrap your arms around sometimes, you know, like the
sort of nebulous dissatisfaction that being able to get clarity
and articulate what it's attached to, and so like that's
(08:17):
one of the reasons why it can be helpful either
to talk to a therapist or also like just to
do some journaling is to get under your own hood
and like what is going on? Is it something that
I'm doing that I actually don't like that much? Is
it something that I'm not doing like I am. I
(08:37):
missing something that I wish was here. But that's really
the first chapter is just beginning to get clarity around
who you are, what you want, and like naming the
pain points. Once that's clear, then you can begin to
develop a vision of a life that had the changes
(09:00):
that we're in alignment with how you imagine you know
things would be for you to feel happier. But that
growth can also go in a different direction too, that
I'm happy to share more about if it would be helpful.
The other thing there are two pieces of this. One
piece is that sometimes the reason we feel dissatisfied is
(09:24):
that we're living a life that is not really in
alignment with who we are, what our values are, what
we want, and it's important to understand that so that
you can make a plan to change your life circumstances
so that it's more congruent with who you are and
what you really want. That's kind of door number one.
(09:45):
The other thing that is also true is that many
times it's not our life circumstances at all that are
leading to our feeling unhappy or dissatisfied. It's more about
how we are functioning on the inside. So that if
we don't do that internal work, it doesn't matter how
(10:07):
differently your life changes in terms of the day to day,
because you're still going to feel the same way you
do right now.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I honestly really relate to that. I feel like I've
had points where I've felt that if I just changed
something about my circumstances, everything else will fall into place.
I moved to Sydney with that belief where I was like,
all Right, the source of all my problems is this
town that I'm living in, and if I just change
(10:35):
my environment, I'm going to change everything else that comes
with it. And you realize that your problems do change,
do not leave you if you think that you're leaving
them behind, like they are so much more internal than
they are external. Can you explain that a little bit
more in terms of like how to manage that? Because
I feel like the first option there to realize that
(10:59):
you're dissatisfied because it doesn't match the vision of your life,
engage in some of that exploration and find something perhaps
more purposeful that, although it is still difficult, feels like
the simpler path. Yeah, But that second path of being like,
actually there is something internally that is making you realize
(11:20):
that you are dissatisfied and unfulfilled and creating all of
these other, like secondary mental consequences. That sounds like such amaze.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, it absolutely is. And it's so easy for all
of us to get tricked into believing that, you know,
I'll be happy when I have a different career, I
live in a different place, or I'll be it a relationship,
or you know, meet some health goal. Right, And this
was actually researched pretty extensively Martin Seligman. He was a
(11:55):
past president of APA and he's the one of the
thought leaders around the school of psychology called positive psychology,
and he identified this a long time ago, and he
called it the hedonic treadmill. And so what it is
is this belief that you know, we all pursue these
goals or these changes or these circumstances, getting the career
(12:17):
or the house or a new car or whatever, and
then arrive at whatever, you know, the top of that
mountain was, and discover that we feel pretty much the
same way that we did before we achieved whatever those
goals were. And now it's absolutely valuable to design a
life that you want to live in, right, And pursue
circumstances and life experiences that you feel good about. Nobody's
(12:39):
mad at that. But the work that we're talking about
now is really getting under the hood to understand why
your sort of emotional thermostat is set at this kind
of constant level. No matter what. That work requires understanding
a number of different things. How you're talking to yourself
(13:01):
has a lot to do with it, Like the kind
of relationship that you're having with yourself, your inner dialogue
can be a big piece of that. Also, I think
managing your expectations for who you are and like what
life is supposed to feel like is a big piece
of that. And I think, you know, especially on the
(13:21):
theme of your podcast, I mean the psychology of your twenties.
I think that a lot of us and I certainly
had this when I was in my twenties, have these
ideas about the way things are supposed to be or
like how other people feel like happier better than I do.
And I think it takes a while to arrive at
(13:41):
the fact that a lot of life is pretty you know,
we have ups and downs, and to feel kind of
average or neutral a lot of the time is actually
normal and when people are thinking that they should be
feeling differently than life is. Actually life can make them
worry that something is wrong. You see this with people
(14:04):
in long term relationships or dating, or you know, in
a career. And I think there's a lot of actually
long term satisfaction and inner piece that comes from embracing
the fact that all of life is kind of a
mixed bag, and that peak experiences can happen and we
(14:24):
can have moments of joy, but a lot of life
is just fairly neutral. So then the work becomes how
to find gratitude and meeting and appreciation and satisfaction in
the things that are really pretty ordinary, because the anxiety
that like something is wrong is one of the things
that will reliably make you feel dissatisfied no matter what.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah. Yeah, And that social comparison as well, I guess
like I think that is the biggest thefe of joy
of people in our twenties, and I hear it all
the time. We have this constant source of comparison being
social media, where I can look online and see someone's
(15:09):
impeccable highlight reel of all of the best moments of
their life and the blanks those days that they don't
feel great and not filled in, and sometimes I know
that I'm guilty of doing this as well. Like I
was telling you, I've been quite ill these last few weeks.
There's nothing really going on in my camera role or
(15:30):
my life right now. Like I'm not going to big events.
I'm not celebrating career milestones. I'm not partying or anything
like that. I'm just in like a bit of a
rut stage, like a bit of a flag stage, and
I'm not posting about that online. I'm not giving people
the candid side of things. And I think that that
(15:52):
is so spot on what you just said, of looking
of that false belief that everyone else is happier than us,
that something should be a certain way is really rubbing
us avout ability to be deeply satisfied in what we have.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree, because you know, there's so
much image management and the things that go out into
the world versus the reality of what day to day
life is actually like and how you know, just maddening
and frustrating. It could be some example, right if you
look at my social media stuff, there's reels and like
(16:31):
the business and the podcast giving people advice, like I
know what I'm doing, and just this morning trying to
order pizzas online. I have people coming over later today
for Halloween. Couldn't find my bank card anywhere. And then
when I did try to use the bank card, it's like,
you know, I had to move money to the debit account.
It's like just all these tiny little frustrations. And then
(16:53):
like I hadn't put the laundry away, so I couldn't
find the sweater that I wanted to wear. It's just
one thing after another, right, and these are all like
little minor irritations. But I was like that, and none
of that goes out into the world. And so even
for me, like I've been working on this stuff for
twenty years, and I'm thinking, why am I getting so
stressed out about all this stuff? And like my house
(17:13):
is a wreck, I can't find anything, and just blah
blah blah blah blah, and really like feeling so annoyed,
and then had to like talk myself down, use all
these skills, like shift my thoughts to a better feeling
place so that I could go into work, you know,
and have a reasonably nice day. But it's so easy
to go down that rabbit hole of like what is
wrong with me? And especially when it comes to relationships.
(17:38):
Oh my goodness, Like I can't tell you how many
clients I've worked with that you know, they've they've been single,
they want to partner, They get into a relationship, you know,
they meet a nice person who is annoying and disappointing
in their own ways, and just like this, You know,
everybody's a mixed bag like this is. You're gonna have
(18:00):
some of these experiences in every relationship, but there's some
you know, perfectionistic ideal in their mind that makes them
feel so badly about the relationship or the life that
they have. It's hard.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Oh I can imagine that so hard. It's something I've
actually encountered where I've I'm in a long term relationship now,
but when we first started dating, I was like, why
does this feel boring? Like this? And it felt so
safe that I was like, this feels boring. Everyone's told
me that there needs to be this like insane intimacy
(18:34):
and passion and chemistry chemistry, and I was like yeah,
And I was like, there is chemistry and there's compatibility,
but this person is not like making me run on
a treadmill for their affection. That's what I feel like
is exciting. I feel like I've gone off on a
tangent because I'm just like lapping up your words here.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
But it's probably my fault.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I know.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I love for going off on random tangents. So welcome
to my world.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
So am I. I feel like that we're matchma in heaven.
But I feel like to bring it back to that
idea of starting that next chapter in your life, perhaps
that first the first way to do that is to
appreciate or to gain a more realistic view of what
life actually is. And that's not to say that life
isn't going to be full of surprises and full of
(19:19):
excitement and full of amazing moments, but that that is
not going to be happening all of the time. Like
changing something external about your life isn't going to suddenly
remove what is the deepest satisfaction from self comparison or
(19:39):
social comparison, or from unrealistic expectations about how you should
be feeling on a day to day. So I feel
like that's our first collective tip on moving toward the
next chapter.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Well, and even to add to that is to end
that work of wanting a new chapter to get under
our hood of doing some journaling, talking to a counselor
or a coach around what are my themes? What have
been the patterns and the repeating experiences that I've had
(20:15):
in all of these different chapters that I've had so far,
because that can give you insight into some of those
inner changes that we need to make in order to
have an actually different experience in the next chapter that
we want to create.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
What are some of those themes, because I'm trying to
think of some in my own life that I'm getting stuck.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yeah, okay, well, I mean themes could include feeling persistently
dissatisfied in relationships and having this grass is Greener thing
going on, you know, no matter who you're with, And
so the patterns would be ending relationships with perfectly nice
people because you don't feel the chemistry or you're not
(20:57):
having like this next level experience that you think that
you're going to have, changing jobs or moving like I
think when you've cycled through what you were talking about,
like moving to Sydney, and like, I've made all these
changes and why do I still feel the same way?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
You know?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That can help give insight into what's really going on.
Let's see what would be examples of other themes, you know,
the day to day things that stress you out, like
your kind of how do I usually feel on the inside.
If you can quantify those and articulate them, that helps
(21:35):
you understand what the next chapter could really involve. That
would be a substantial change. So, like an example in
my own life, as you may have inferred from the
previous story about not being able to find the debit
card and the laundry still isn't put away.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
But I.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Am a lifelong individual of who has an ADHD. I
didn't know that when I was younger, in my twenties.
I had no idea that that's part of what was
going on for me. And being able was in my
thirties actually like finally connecting those dots. But I had
to go through a period of time where all of
(22:14):
these different chapters of my life, the common theme was
feeling disorganized, feeling kind of chaotic, feeling like, you know,
not really showing up in the way that I wanted to.
And so it was really funny, Okay, what's the common
theme here? Wasn't It wasn't the environment. What's happening in
(22:35):
terms of my practices and ways of being that's contributing
to me having these experiences over and over and over again,
and obviously still a work in progress, but like being
able to identify the kinds of systems or practices that
can help us be more of what we want to
be and how feel more of how we want to
(22:57):
feel is really the long term solution when it comes
to designing that new chapter that's based on the outcomes
you want to have.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That makes so much sense. I also feel like i've
I'm really sitting here being like, oh, I need to
probably identify my themes because that one of moving is
incredibly relevant to me. Like any yeah, I always get this.
I feel like it's interesting. I came into this really
wanting to talk to you about this, you know, starting
(23:28):
this new chapter in life, because I was like, ah,
I'm considering moving, and then you said what are the themes?
And I was like, ah, every time I start to
feel a little bit stagnant or bored, I immediately am like,
you know what's gonna make me feel better? Move a move.
I'm like, because nothing is more exciting in life, more
(23:49):
of a challenge than a move. It's like, how can
life be boring when you have to, when you try
to make new friends, when you're discovering a completely novel environment,
when you're you know, building a new life, decorating a
new home, like all of those things. And so I've
really had I'm sitting back and thinking about it. In
some cases though, I do think that we do need
(24:12):
to take risks like that. Yeah, Like there are moments
where it's like, it might actually be that there is
something in your external life that is not right for
you right It might it might be that you are
working a job or in a career that is deeply unfulfilling,
and you've always had this sense of I want to
(24:33):
do something more, I want to do something different. Maybe
I want to do something more creative. How do we
approach that to know that that is actually what we
want to do versus what we feel like will make
us happier. I think that our approach to risks in
that sense, I always promote risk taking, not like jumping
(24:55):
off a bridge or whatever, but like risk taking in
the sense that, like, it's better to do the thing
than to not do the thing, You'll minimize regret in
the future. Is that always the case when we're thinking
about big life changes.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Say this like a true therapist. It depends, I absolutely,
I mean to have the confidence and the courage to
take risks in service of you know, your goals, your values,
the life you want. I completely agree with that, and
I think there, for me, from my perspective, no bigger
(25:28):
regret than not doing something that you wanted to do.
And especially you know, talking with people sometimes at the
end of their lives, that's what they talk about. Aren't
the things they did, It was the things that they
didn't do. So I think there's a lot of wisdom
in that. I also think that you really touched on
something important though, which is this theme, this pattern of
(25:52):
how do I know if I'm taking a risk that
is going to get me to a different place where
I will feel differently and I'll finally feel more satisfied,
or whether or not I'm you know, putting myself into
a new situation with these false expectations that it's the
circumstances that are going to change the way I feel.
(26:14):
And so obviously I don't want to start unpacking your
stuff here on your podcast in front of all of
your listeners, but well, questions, I would you know encourage
everybody to be think about, thinking about, or doing some
journaling about is what do I imagine would be different
for me if I lived in a different town or
(26:37):
a different career, for example, and be specific, you know,
like how would I be feeling and why? And as
you're asking yourself those questions, be thinking about is this
connected to my values or my meaning? And why am
(26:59):
I attaching it to this specific career or relationship or
location that I might be moving to. And the real
power question is what would need to be different about
the way I was showing up here and now if
I wanted to feel this way right this very second
to begin to differentiate? Like am I chasing a false
(27:25):
idea and missing the opportunity for growing in place? I
see this oftentimes in people who change careers. Right they've
decided that there's something about their job or their employer
or whatever that doesn't feel good for them anymore. And
sometimes legitimately that's true. They have better opportunities elsewhere, so godspeed,
go do that. But when people just get out of
(27:48):
one job and into another without really growing in place
and thinking about what is actually going on with me
that I'm feeling so stressed out about my job. They
don't get to uncover the fact that maybe it's difficult
for them to manage their time effectively or set boundaries
(28:10):
or organize their work in a way to be effective.
But they don't look at how they're operating in their job.
They attach it to the job itself, and in doing so,
lose a really great opportunity for personal growth.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I also feel like it's this fear of a sense
of stagnation as well, fear of a sense of am
I going to waste my life doing this thing? Am
I going to waste my life in this job? Am
I going to waste my life in this relationship? Am
I going to waste my life in this city around
these people? And it's that fear of I think it's
(28:49):
almost like existential dread of being like I understand, and
I'm I guess we as a collective understand that we
really only get one life based on your beliefs, That's
what I've If you get one life, you have to
live it as best as you can. And I think
sometimes being so fearful that we're not living it as
best as we can actually creates patterns of behavior. As
(29:12):
you were saying that maybe a form of self sabotage, right,
actually undermining our true sense of purpose, our true vision,
our true dedication to our actual selves because we're pursuing
a different version of us that has been created by fear,
like a fear of not doing enough, a fear of
missing out. How do we how do we approach that
(29:36):
with balance? The balance of Like, yes, taking risks is
part of how I see my life, for example, like
going and doing a bunch of solo travel is something
that I see is integral to my life. Hiking Everest
is one of my biggest life goals. Or yes, I
(29:56):
do want to, you know, move to a new city
where I know no body. How can we manage both
of those needs? The need to firstly have a stable
sense of self and do that self work of Like
maybe this is internal versus the need to also push
beyond our comfort zone in ways that might leave us
(30:21):
feeling perhaps more lost, or might make us feel more content.
Does that make sense? Like do you understand this balance
that I'm trying to really get to?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I do I do? How to? I think what you're
saying it's like almost how to know what to trust?
And like, what is the path that would help you,
you know, And so I guess what I would be
thinking about is drilling down into the values that are
(30:54):
defining your sense of what is important. Like you taught
you use this phrase like I don't want to waste
my life, and so what would be happening if your
life were wasted? And like, to use your example, there
was a value around experiencing new things like having adventures, novelty, right,
(31:22):
like pushing your limits. Those are values. And so it's like,
what you're saying is that if I'm not expressing these values,
that would mean that my life wasn't worth living, that
I had wasted my life somehow. And so I think
there's a lot of valuable exploration that comes from getting
(31:44):
into what is valuable and meaningful to each of us
as individuals. So, like going back to the story that
I started with when I was in my twenties and
this huge new chapter of opened up for me. I
had been working in jobs where I was just kind
(32:04):
of there. It wasn't really attached to any personal meaning
or any of my own life values, and I wasn't
clear at that time about what those things were. And
it was only after you know, going through that crisis
right and thinking about I could die at any second.
My cousin Jimmy was in his office on the top
(32:26):
of the World Trade Center, mining his own business, drinking
a cup of coffeet nine o'clock in the morning, and
an airplane came through the window and it just like
took away the certainty that your life is just going
to go on forever. And so it pushed me into
contact with this idea of you know, at the end
of my life, looking back, what would have been made
my life worth living? And part of that really was
(32:49):
I want to be of service to other people, Like
if I could figure out a way to help other
people grow or be helpful to them in some ways,
and that could go in a lot of different directions
in terms of a career path. But in order for
me to feel like my life had been worth something,
it would have been making a positive impact in the
(33:09):
lives of other people. But that's the kind of value
exploration I'm talking about, because when we can understand that,
that's where you begin to feel confident about I'm making
the right decision, because you're comparing your life choices to
the values that you've clarified for yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Rather than someone else's values.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Oh my goodness, Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Absolutely, that makes so much sense to me. And I
think it's so interesting because we're talking about, you know,
starting the next chapter in your life, right, and maybe
like the next chapter is not that big life change
that you feel you need to make, it's actually sitting
down in that self appraisal and that real deep dive
(33:57):
into what do I actually want from my life? What
are my values here? What is my vision? And I
think what is genuinely going to make me happy and
satisfied in the long term, rather than just as an
instantaneous kind of blip on the radar, like a little
(34:17):
bit of an outlier, you know, Like I think back
to that example of people who leave relationships with people
that they might deeply love just because they don't meet
some vision for what they for a fairy tale romance.
Obviously that's totally your call, but I think it's interesting
that that actually might leave us in a place where
(34:39):
we are alone, even though our struggle has been to
not be alone. So's it's kind of counter to what
we actually expected it to be the outcome, and also
counter to perhaps our vision and our value to find
someone we love and settle down and have them in
our life. So I think that was excellent advice and
I feel like perhaps different than what people expected.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
But I know. But that's the thing. I think. When
you get clear about your values, it then becomes easy
to make decisions on a day to day basis, because
all you have to do is compare to a course
of action. Is this in alignment with my values or not?
Another piece of this to try to get that clarity
(35:23):
around going into a next chapter, taking a risk and
being reasonably confident that it's the right risk. So, for example,
me going back to counseling school, tons of money, tons
of time. I didn't know if I was going to
like it as a career, but having that values clarity
helped me be like, I'm going to try this. I'm
(35:45):
going to try this. I'm glad I did. But the
other thing to be aware of is that it's not
just that we hold values. And so it could be adventure,
being of service, family, unconditional love, financial security, spirituality, all
of these, but it's also organizing these values in terms
of importance. Because somebody whose value of financial security is
(36:11):
a higher priority value than being generous or having adventures,
their life is going to look very different because they're
going to be making choices that prioritizes one value over another.
So that's where, you know, a lot of introspection and
self clarity becomes very important when you're thinking about designing
(36:34):
a new chapter.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah, understanding what you're actually motivated by as well.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I think correct, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
So I feel like you've created a lot of self
introspection for me and things for me to go away with.
I hope that there are others who are listening to
this who are perhaps contemplating ending a relationship, starting in
your career, quitting a job that they once thought was
their dream job, who were better able to sit back
(37:08):
and be like, is this new life chapter really what
I think it is? Or is it kind of a
proxy for not wanting to change something internally that's going
to lead me disatisfy no matter where I am. So
I want to thank you so much for coming on
to the show and for joining us.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Oh well, thank you again for inviting me. This is
a great conversation, and I do hope that this conversation
was helpful for your listeners and starting to get clarity
and confidence to know what the what the next chapter involves,
is it changing circumstances, doing some personal growth work that
changes their own inner landscape. But the real value is
(37:50):
getting clear on our meaning, our values, our purpose and
then making decisions that are based on that.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Absolutely, I feel like that is such a value insight,
such valuable advice. So thank you so much for sharing
it like it was. Yeah, it was. It was a
beautiful episode, So thank you for coming on. Where can
people find you? Obviously we've spoken about your own podcast
if they want to listen to more Love, Happiness and Success.
(38:18):
Do you have an Instagram? Do you have anywhere they
can follow along with your journey and what you're working on?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Oh, thank you for asking. Yes, the Love, Happiness and
Success Podcast. Welcome to listen. I recently started doing this
video version so they can come hang out in my
office on YouTube for the Love, Happiness and Success Podcast. Also, yes,
certainly do Instagram at doctor Lisa Marie Bobbie, but really
(38:45):
on my website growingself dot com. So there Another value
and source of meaning for me is being able to
write and put information out to the world, and so
there is an extensive blog with all kinds of articles
and podcasts, playlists that I put together for people and
(39:06):
for your listeners if they come to the blog and
podcast page. I have everything organized into like content collections,
so to come into the Happiness collection, and then there's
a little cluster of articles and podcasts around holistic life
design that I think would be really helpful for people
who are in this space of what where do I go?
(39:28):
What decision do I make in terms of relationship or career?
That would be more information for them on this topic
and all completely free. I just put it out into
the world because one of my values is being of service.
So there we are.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, so generous. I'm actually gonna go look at that
holistic life design. I'll give you, yes, please do. I
feel like so many of us now twenties need that, Like,
I'm sure there are so many people listening to this
being like I am so terribly absolutely lost. Some life
design probably would really benefit me. So thank you for
doing all of that for us, for people like you,
(40:02):
for people like me. I just want to say again,
really appreciate you coming on board. If you enjoyed this episode,
please feel free to leave a five star review on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening right now and
make sure that you are following for future episodes. If
you also have a future episode suggestion, or you just
want to reach out, you just want to chat, you
(40:22):
want to see what's going on behind the scenes. You
can follow along at that Psychology podcast on Instagram and
as always, we will be back next week with another episode.
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