January 11, 2024 • 38 mins
Getting into a new relationship can bring up a lot of past trauma from previous relationships, and cause a lot of self sabotage or anxiety, resulting in behaviours such as:
- Emotional unavailability
- Knit picking behaviour
- Starting unnecessary fights
- Stone walling
- Pushing people away
- Ignoring red flags
In this episode we answer the question "do you need to completely heal before entering into a new relationship?". We are joined by the incredible, Tasha Bailey, otherwise known as the Real Talk Therapist as we break down the way past relationship trauma can show up in our new relationships and how to heal whilst still accepting the love you deserve.
Follow Tasha here: @realtalk.therapist
Buy Tasha's book here: https://www.amazon.com/Real-Talk-Lessons-Therapy-Self-Love-ebook/dp/B0BGXKR5T2
Follow the podcast here: @thatpsychologypodcast
Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg
For business enquiries: psychologyofyour20s@gmail.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever
you are in the world, it is so great to
have you here. Back for another episode as we out
cover the psychology of our twenties. Today, we're going to
talk about healing past trauma in a new relationship. Romantic
relationships in our twenties are so difficult because there is
(00:49):
no guidebook to how we should be going about it.
There are so many questions that go along with that,
like should I delete the dating apps and try and
meet someone organically? How long does it take to get
over someone? When do I know it's time to break
up with my significant other? But one of the biggest
questions or conundrums I get all the time, and which
I will admit I've personally faced, is do you have
(01:11):
to be healed before entering into a new relationship. That
is a massive question. We undoubtedly carry baggage trauma, memories,
past experiences from the people we have dated and loved
and been connected to, and some of that baggage is
not great, it's not pleasant, and it's perhaps something that
we're not ready to unpack yet.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But does that.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Mean that if you have not done all the necessary
healing you should hold off on love or can you
equally heal whilst being with someone new, someone who treats
you well and helps you into that kind of self
acceptance self love journey. Today we are joined by a
brilliant guest who is going to talk us through a
(01:53):
little bit about this very idea about healing past trauma
in a new relationship. Welcome Tasha, otherwise known as real
Talk Therapists. Thanks for joining us, Oh, thank you for
having me. So if people are not familiar with your work,
you are incredible. You post this just amazing content that
(02:14):
is like factual reasonable. You have Obviously you have a therapy.
You are a therapist in your in your like in
your real life, in your life. Can you like briefly
introduce yourself and tell us about your work.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, So I am a author, psychotherapist and content creator.
So I kind of the very all starters. I became
a child and adolescent psychotherapist. Wels, I really want to
work with children and trauma. And then I did my
training and I realized that actually loads of adults have
(02:50):
this little child in them that has a story to tell.
And so I found myself working with adults and their
past traumas and actually put on a topic like you said,
like a lot of people will find me when they're
in a safe relationship and suddenly all their triggers are
being pushed, and then we'll start to kind of work
together to understand what that is and where that's coming from.
(03:12):
And then I also have a social media platform where
I share free content because obviously not everybody can access therapy,
but everybody can access Instagram or TikTok, So I do
my best to share healing prompts, tips and encouragement to
anybody that needs it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And then obviously through my book as well.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
For those of you who do not or have not
read this book, it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
It's called it's.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Called Real Talk, so like you'll be able to find
it and it's kind of like one of those books
we were talking about this before, that everyone I think needs,
no matter how much therapy you have done, because it
will introduce you to just so many concepts around healing,
around living your best life that we often don't think about.
So I would I did very much recommend going out
(04:02):
and grabbing that. And I just want to say thank
you for coming on once again. Obviously we're talking about healing,
mastered a new relationship. I think it is so interesting
what you said about how a lot of people come
to you and find you when they finally are in
this like safe relationship. They're experiencing safe, healthy love for
(04:24):
the first time, and that is scary to them. I
feel like that's because a lot of past relationships and
experiences can sometimes cause us harm. Like love is one
of the most vulnerable things, one of the most vulnerable
emotions that we can have, and so there is going
to be trauma that comes along with that with I
feel like anything that is beautiful always carries on the
(04:46):
side of darkness or a way that it can be manipulated.
What are some of the examples on maybe like instances
of past trauma that you have come across that we
tend to carry into new relationships.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, I think a lot of the time when people
think about trauma, they think the really big things, which
obviously absolutely are valid potential trauma. But it's not only
those things that can be trauma that we carry. So yes,
there could be things like abuse or neglect that we
had from childhood or even in relationships that we had
(05:17):
in adulthood, but there could also be really small traumas.
They call them, they call them little teas. I think
they call them, I forgot now, small teas, little teas.
It could be as small as being a baby and
having a parent who never picked you up when you
were crying, And that might not sound like a small
(05:38):
thing at first, but actually spends time and time. Again,
you learn as a baby that nobody's there for me,
nobody can attend to my needs, and so I have to,
you know, fend for myself. So even those little small things,
or even a parent who doesn't give that much eye contact,
or a parent who calls you a cry baby as
(06:01):
a child, you know, you internalize all of these experiences
and you expect them in your adult relationships, whether that's
a friendship or in your romantic relationships.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And then another thing.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Is that you know, when you've had those traumas, all
those experiences, it kind of shapes your brain in a
particular way and so you even though those things don't
feel comfortable, they feel familiar, and so you find ways
to reenact them. One thing that I find when people
are in a safe relationship, their brain starts to panic, like, wait,
(06:38):
he texts me back, Like when I text he texts
me back, like what's going on? Like what is this about?
And we might get the ick or we might, you know,
start to think that he's in genuine or the person's
in genuine. But it's just the alarm system in our
brain is saying this is very different, and I don't
know if I trust it yet.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, that's what I can often look like that.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
That's actually so interesting because I've had that experience and
you were saying, oh, they start like texting me back,
they want to see me. And I remember when I
first started seeing my partner and he was so like
adamant that he wanted to make plans, and I was like,
is this guy love bombing me? Like is this guy psychopath?
Like why does he want to see me so much?
Like what's his problem? But it's so true. We are
(07:22):
so used to what we feel like comfortable and familiar
with that we try and recreate that because that is
like the only reality that we've ever known. How does
like these because it's not just past relationship patterns, right, well,
I guess it is. It's past relationship patterns, but not
just past romantic relationship patterns. It also has to do
with the relationship we have with our parents, our family,
(07:44):
our caregivers. How does some of this trauma impact our
approach to dating or love, maybe through self sabotage, self abandonment, settling,
a fear response like the one you spoke about, Yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Kind of have when this happens. We kind of have
this unfinished business that needs to be you know, resolved.
And usually, like our inner child would be the one
that carries that unfinished business and tries to make sure
that it's it gets what it needs. But yeah, often
(08:20):
we don't know how to We know, we know what,
we know what we want to receive.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
We know we want to receive love.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Or to iron out unfinished business, but we don't know
how to do that, and then that's where the kind
of self sabotagey or destructive things can happen.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
One thing I.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Noticed that if we've had kind of a childhood where
maybe our parents let us down or our families let
us down in whatever way. Many people respond by being
really hypervigional, not hypervigionance. Sorry, many people will respond by
being very hyper independent when it comes to dating. So
they'll kind of say, oh, I don't need anybody, or
(08:59):
it's fine, gonna like date those of people, but they
don't mean anything to me. There's this kind of like
almost like I don't actually need the intimacy, that the
intimacy that's just so above me, and actually that's fair,
that's fair of getting too close to somebody because they
might let you down and they might reject you. Yeah,
(09:21):
And that's one way that it can kind of look
is that we, yeah, we almost have this exteria that
we tell ourselves, an exterio narrative that we tell ourselves
that actually gets in the way of us actually receiving
what we need and what we want.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
It sounds a lot like emotional and availability to me,
like the sense of like I've been hurt in the past,
we are so hyper vigilant towards threats that may hurt
us again in the future, that we eliminate in any
possibility for that. Some of those possibilities, some of those
opportunities are actually quite positive, would actually be able to
(09:58):
rewire our brain change. It's really interesting what you talk
about in terms of the hyperindependence, because I think that
that is a way past trauma shows up in our
relationships that is not often recognized because independence is such
a celebrated trait in our society, especially in like Western societies,
especially in individualistic societies, whereby being able to like provide
(10:24):
for yourself, be your own emotional security, your own sense
of comfort, make all the money that you need is
like super admirable. But I think it overlooks this thing
of you do need a community, you do need love
and connection to sustain yourself in a way. So how
do you think, you know, if you've recognized that you
(10:46):
are hyper independent, how do you almost stop doing that?
Like it's such a deeply ingrained behavior, How do you
unlearn those behaviors?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I think it's about kind of asking yourself the question
of what would it be like to receive something that
is soft and warm and light and loving?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
What would that actually feel like?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And what ways am I likely to reject it or
stop it or block it? Just kind of noticing it,
I think is the first thing, and just being aware
of what it looks like when you receive those things,
like when a friend gives you a compliment, how do
you respond when a friend says call me whenever you
need anythink and then you suddenly need something and you.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Still don't call, Like what is that about?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
So I think it's like noticing those things of like
how you stop yourself from receiving what you actually do
deserve but you're telling yourself that you don't need it
for whatever reason. And then I talk a lot about
leaning into the cringe like a lot of people. I
think I believe that the things that we cringe thatt
(11:55):
are the things that we actually desperately need but we're
too scared to say so, whether it's cringing at a couple,
pdaing and huggetting kissing on the road, maybe that stuff
that we actually do want to receive, but we're like, oh,
that's gross.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I never want that, Like maybe I do.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yeah, yeah, So I think like noticing when you have
those cringey feelings and maybe questioning what is the need
underneath that that I might be communicating through my cringe.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
When you said that, I was like, wow, that is
I actually think that is so accurate because the other example.
I always think that is like cringing at people who
you know, like kind of like always validate their partner, right.
I remember seeing this couple on TikTok a little while ago,
and it like went kind of viral. It was this
(12:46):
example of them doing like a love surge. I don't
know if you've seen this, Do you know what I'm
talking about? All right, So now I'll send it to
you because it's just really like lighthearted video where this
couple is like, when one of us feels a lot
of love, we get this thing called a love sir,
and we.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Have to like hug each other and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
And all of these people were like that is so cringe,
Like that is so disgusting. That is like revolting. And
I remember watching that feeling that way, and then obviously
met my partner and was like I get that. I
get it. I wanted that. I wanted to be that
loved that someone was willing to like put that online
for me. So it is like a very interesting thing
how our brain tries to like trick us out of
(13:24):
recognizing our needs as like a protective mechanism in some ways.
Do you think there are other like defense mechanisms as
well that we kind of put up other than cringe
is a big one. I think, are there any others
that like we might not be able to recognize?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, I think like there's obviously we can obviously deny
what we need or but I think also like the
role that we play with that person, Like if we're
dating someone, some of us will if we have childhood
wounds or relationship wounds. We might find ourselves wanted to
(13:59):
be rescued by our new partner or for them to
suddenly fulfill all of our needs, every single need we've
ever had in our lifetime. We want this partner to
have to fulfill for us, which is impossible and poor
person have to have such a huge responsibility. But yeah,
(14:20):
it can feel like, oh, suddenly there's someone a hero
here who can fulfill everything that I need. And that
means that we put them on a pedestal and we
expect them to be really perfect and when they make
a mistake, it's absolutely devastating to us.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I think.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And this is different to like non negotiable mistakes, like
if it was something huge like they were unfaithful, that's different.
But if it's like a mistake like they didn't respond
to your emotions the way that you wanted them to,
but you hadn't told them how you want them to
respond to your emotions.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Things like that.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
It's like, we do need those mistakes to happen because
we then we can grow the relationship and they can
learn about you, you can learn about them. But for
some people it's like like I'm done, I'm out. So yeah,
I think it's that how we deal with mistakes a
partner makes and how we put them on a pedestal
(15:15):
isn't also a big one as well.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I can once again agree with that. Something that's really
interesting about that is like the nitpicking and the sense
of like, if this love isn't perfect, I don't want it,
and constantly looking for problems that actually are not problems.
They're just an excuse for us to leave because we're
feeling vulnerable. When you talked about that of like oh,
(15:39):
my partner hasn't responded to my emotional needs, but I've
never told them why, or small things like oh they
didn't text me back within like two hours, they must
hate me. The relationship is over. And you can sometimes
tell yourself like, well, that's a non negotiable for me,
when actually it's just you feeling quite triggered by their response,
and it's really more symbolic of something deep like you
(16:00):
are actually not ready for this, You're not You're not
prepared to be vulnerable with them. So I think it's
actually really interesting because this really leads into my next question,
the sense of like a healthy relationship will challenge you,
It will cause you to question how you perhaps approached
love in the past. Do you think that there is
a necessary level of healing we need to do before
(16:23):
getting into a new relationship, or is there like we
can Is it that so that we can just heal
in another relationship straight off the bat?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Oh, I think a bit of both. I'll do a
little bit of sharing here. So I'm I actually got
married this year like that.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
She congratulations, Oh my god, that's so sadly wow, so fun.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And I actually met my husband when we were eighteen,
but it did it work out and then we reconnected
with you twenty eight that it's a love story and yeah,
and for it to actually when we reconnected it everything
just made so much.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
But by that time I.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Had had five years of therapy. He had not had
therapy before. But he'd had gone through a really big
life changing thing that had happened for him, and so
we had both changed in a way. We were still
the same people, but we had a new emotional maturity,
whereas when we were eighteen who were so emosh it
(17:22):
was sure there was nothing could have nothing could have
seriously happened at that time. But I think there is
something of like some healing does have to take place,
some kind of self awareness that's to take place for
you to be or to even just start that self
awareness journey is a great bonus, like to then be
(17:44):
able to go into a relationship with somebody else's also
going to have all their own stuff, all their own histories,
all their own baggage, And almost when you're in a relationship,
it's almost like there's all this junk on the floor
and you've got a work out together. Okay, that one
is mine, I'll take this, this spit is yours, that's mine,
(18:04):
that's mine, and you're almost like looking at the mess
in between you and working out divving up. Okay, what
is the stuff that I'm taking accountable busy for and
what stuff are you taking accountability for? But if we
don't have that self awareness. We can't do that. We'll
be like, oh, that stuff is all yours, that's none
of that's mine. I've got nothing to do with all
that stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Oh my god, that's so true. Also, that is such
a beautiful story that you met at eighteen, and it
shows that like people can change, but they can change
in parallel or like change in a way that looks
different from the outside, but it makes them more compatible.
I think it's a really that's a really beautiful story
in terms of also like how people can change in
(18:45):
a relationship alongside each other, even if it looks different.
So congratulations on getting married.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
That's so amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I think we're gonna we're gonna track that now because
like we're talking about marriage're gonna talk about the opposite.
I think sometimes people jump from one relationship to another
very quickly to avoid healing. Is that something that you've seen?
Why do you think that is? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I'm actually currently reading a book it's called really good.
Actually is that she called really good? Actually, really good actually,
And it's about a woman who is in a relationship
for from age like eighteen, and they get married at
twenty eight and then they get divorced two years later,
So it's like a huge it's a huge trauma, but
she goes through a phase of just dating, constantly, constantly dating,
(19:38):
And I think it's that thing of like emotional availability
to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
It is we when we.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
End a relationship or leaven relationship, we actually do have
to be in a space of a loneeness that a
lot of us are terrified of.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
We're taught that aloneeness.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Is, you know, the worst thing anyone could experience, and
that we should avoid being aloner all times like that,
There's just there's a whole air about being alone. And
I think even like a lot of single people that
I know and friends that I know often feel quite
judged for being single at a particular age because of
this kind of judgment. And so I think when we
are finally alone, first we have to sit with that
(20:23):
I'm alone, what does that mean? But also we have
to sit with all the grief of grieving that relationship.
And when we are grieving a relationship, it often brings
up other experiences of grief that we've had in our lives.
So if we've lost a parent or a friend, or
if we you know, we're also grieving the part of
ourselves that was in that relationship or the life stages
that we went through in that relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
We're grieving a lot, basically.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
And nobody wants to sit in their grief, like it's
not the most fun thing to do. And also we're
in a we live in a culture which is, you know,
grief avoidant. We don't we don't like to talk about
death or losses or endings.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
We just move on to the next thing.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
And I think that's where then there's this idea of like, okay,
what there's a song, isn't there and then like a
I can't put her name now, but there's a song,
it's like move on to the next one or something
of that. There's like yeah, there's like so many phrames
of like if one thing doesn't work out, move on
to the next thing.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
And oh it's like thank you next by Aarona Grande.
Yeah yeah, is it that? Okay?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, I was like racking my brain.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
So it's like, yeah, it's our way of coping, but
it's obviously not great for us in the long run.
It's it's just a temporary a temporary distraction.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
An avoidance as well. When you said it sometimes we're
so afraid of being alone, and we're afraid of our solitude.
If you have been in a relationship for a while,
or if you've been in an unhealthy relationship where there
has been so much intensely, you're almost like addicted to
this other person. You're addicted to the excitement, the feeling,
(22:01):
the passion, whatever you want to call it. And when
that ends, there is a huge hole left behind, a
huge you almost are like in the state of like
withdrawal or detox, where you are craving, like the kind
of connection that you previously had. You're craving that love.
And so the first person that walks along you're like you,
(22:23):
you will do just fine, like you are like who
needs therapy when I can someone else can be a
distraction for me. So I think that's like something that
I see quite a lot, especially in our twenties, when
it is so easy to find people who want to
casually date you, like, who aren't looking for commitment, who
are just down for a fun time. You can go
(22:45):
on a dating app, and especially if you're a woman,
like you can find someone pretty quickly who will at
least like want to get a drink. So it's easy,
and that's such a distraction. It's such like a mask,
a facade that we put up where it's like, if
I don't have to see my trauma, I don't have
to deal with it.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, and I think particularly for women or non binary
people like that can be super liberating because you know,
with them it is such a patriarchal, misogynist world. But
suddenly you can go into an app where you have
access to so many potential suitors and you decide who
you get to see, when you see them, how often
you see them, Like it can feel when you've just
(23:25):
gone through a breakup where you feel actually quite helpless
or with your feelings like I'm having to hold all
these annoying, frustrating, sad feelings.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
What do I do with them? I feel helpless?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
I know I can feel more liberated and you know,
more productive by dating lots of people. It's almost like,
you know, yeah, shifting the energy.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That is so true and so fascinating. I think you
point out something really interesting where it's like you don't
feel in control over the last relationship, so you want
to feel more in control. You want to feel more
in control. There's like these this dating system allows you
to feel that way, even if it is just like temporary,
even if it is a little bit of delusion. So,
(24:08):
say you are someone who has you've broken up with
your partner, there has been things in that past relationship
that maybe you haven't healed from. Maybe they cheated on you,
maybe they were not particularly kind to you, maybe they
maybe it was like a situationship and someone has just
treated you poorly as it made you feel like you
never really deserved anything more, and you find someone amazing.
(24:32):
What are some of the things to look out for
in a new relationship that indicate that you have some
work to do that Maybe I'm going to use the
analogy you gave before. There is some junk on the
floor that you need to pick up.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I think I guess one thing is noticing you kind
of named it earlier, like if you're picking at things,
If you're picking at this is a hard one because
obviously we talk about red flags and we talk about,
you know, obviously being quite hyper vigionant to if the
person you're dating is right for you. But picking at
(25:08):
things is almost like.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
It's almost like so.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
My supervisor calls it a now a now story, So
it's almost like you're seeing something in and now but
actually has nothing to do what's happening and now is
everything to do what's happening in your past. So maybe
you're with someone and they looked at someone passing by,
but for you, it triggered you to think about the
(25:34):
time when your ex was looking at other people or
dating other people behind your But you know, it's this
thing of like you start to merge the two realities together.
So I think just noticing when you are picking at things,
really ask yourself first where is that coming from? Is
it really from the now or is it potentially from
the past, or is it both. I think the other
(25:56):
thing is to notice when you feel safe and when
you don't feel safe. So some people they find that
they feel absolutely safe with their new person, but it's
when they're apart that they don't feel safe and they
start to question things. And that might be your kind
of history of you know, absence. If you've had parents
(26:19):
that are quite absent, or if you had a partner
that's quite absent, it's going to give you lots of
kind of feelings of anxiety when you're away from your
new boot. Basically, so just kind of when that happens,
use it as a time to journal and think about
where is that coming from and where else heavy experienced
at in your life as well.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
That is incredibly relevant to me when I was like,
I'm just sharing so much, Tasha, I'm just using you
for free therapy. That's obviously what that's what this sounds
like at this point. But I remember when I would
be like totally fine when we were around each other,
and then as soon as they left, I'd be like,
oh so they hate me, Oh.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So this is over?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Or like what if this relationship isn't right for me?
And I realized that it was because it's so easy
to feel safe when there's someone there who's going to
constantly validate you. But you have to be able to
validate yourself and able to validate what you know about
the relationship, what you know about the other person. Adding
to that list of kind of signs that indicate on
(27:18):
hill trauma, picking fights or starting fights on things that
are super arbitrary. Obviously there are you should feel free
to express anger, rage, whatever feeling, but there are sometimes
things where you're like, I'm going to start this fight
because I want to emotionally almost bait this person and
see if they're going to leave. I'm going to bring
(27:41):
up something from it really doesn't matter. I'm actually not
bothered by it, but I want I want to see
how far I can push to this person, because you're
kind of seeking the sense of like people have left
me in the past, people have abandoned me. I want
to know now whether this person is going to be
one of those people. So let's put them through a
little bit of a test here. I think that is
a huge, huge one that we see. Yeah, and that's
(28:04):
something that you actually need to You need to be
really honest about that with yourself, because it can become
really problematic or worse comes to worse, you actually end
up losing them and you and you didn't need to,
like you didn't need this person would have been amazing,
but they but they were like, I don't I don't
feel like this is fair. I don't feel like this
is justified. They actually have done the healing themselves to
(28:27):
know that they deserve maybe something different. So part of
that is like communication and being like, hey, actually I'm
not mad about that. I really just wanted to statify.
Let's unpack that. How do you communicate with your new
partner when you are reacting that way or kind of
what you need, whether in those moments where you're trying
to nitpick them, trying to push them away, what you
(28:49):
actually need.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Then Yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I really relate to this one because it was me
and white twitties, and I remember being in a previous
relationship where whenever we were on holiday, the third day
would always be an argument, always be an argument, and
it will always come for me. And again it's a
thing of like, this is a third day with somebody,
how do I know if they still want to spend
(29:12):
time with me? So let me just like pick at
something to see you know that unconsciously, not kind of specifically,
but like unconsciously it was like, oh, it's like it's
been so intimate. Let me it's almost does it feel safe?
So let me pick at something. One thing that helped
with my relationship now. So we had the most arguments
(29:34):
of our entire relationship in the first year. We actually
don't really argue that much, like we do challenge each other,
but we were not very argmentative couple.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
But in the first year loads and one thing that.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
We did was we had on our phone because we
both relate to conflict in very different ways. We had
on our phone just a note which said, kind of
what do I need when there's conflict? And what does
he need when there's conflict? So he needs five minutes
ten minutes to like go reflect, think about things. Was
(30:10):
I'm someone that wants to be like I want answers now,
So then we came we kind of had an agreement
of what we would do. Let's have ten to fifteen minutes.
I write down what I need to write down, and
then I talk to you about it, and then you
go away and you respond, let's respond to it. And
another thing that I also tell to clients when they
feel triggered in a new relationship is to write down
(30:32):
what your triggers are and to share that with your partner.
And obviously that list might grow, that's fine, but to
share that with your new partner and also tell them,
you know, share on the list what you might need
when you are triggered. So do you need them to
leave you alone? Do you need them to give you
a hug? Do you need them to say, let's go
for a walk or let mean just you stay in
(30:53):
the living room where I'll go and make you something
to eat or order something to eat, whatever it is
you communicating to them, you know, almost like a first
aid kit of what to do when you're triggered, because
they're going to be like, oh my gosh, they're triggered,
they're angry at me, or they're this or this, What
the hell do I do in this situation? So you're
at least giving them a tool box that they can
(31:14):
make use of, and then you're also getting what you
need at the same time.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
That is such a good suggestion, like such a good
skill because I'm the same I'm like, I need you
to validate, I need you to tell me it's all
okay right now, Otherwise I'm gonna lose my fucking shit,
Like I'm going to panic, I'm going to throw up,
Like not throw up, but I'm just gonna feel really upset.
I'm going to feel really anxious. I love the idea
(31:38):
of that. I also think I'm going to add to
this just if you really struggle with being honest with
someone around what's happened in the past, around what you need,
me and my partner do this thing called vulnerable chats
where we'll be like, hey, I want to have vulnerable
chats tonight. Tonight is the night that we're gonna have
(32:01):
vulnerable chats, and so we both kind of get into
a headspace of like, okay, like let's be a little
bit nicer to each other, not that wayever mean, but
like let's be particularly gentle. Let's like make this a
gentle environment and set ourselves up for success here so
that neither person feels, you know, not threatened, but like, yeah,
(32:23):
threatened by the other person, not because the other person
is trying to be threatening, but just because they're not
prepared for what's happening, Like they're not prepared for a
big reveal or like a big truth session. So I
think that that is. But I'm gonna use your skills.
I'm gonna use your little tip as well. I think
it's amazing. So I have one final question for you.
(32:43):
What do you think is your perspective here? Do you
need to be fully healed before you enter into a
new relationship or can you allow love to heal you
or can you heal whilst you're in a new relationship.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
So I don't believe in the idea of anyone being
fully healed. Yeah, Like you've read the book, like the
first page was my therapist, that's why I asked you
that question.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
That's not real.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I'm setting you up for a.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Particular So the first page in my book is that
me in therapy and saying, oh my god, I can't
wait to be this amazingly fully healed person. It's going
to be amazing. I could just live the rest of
my life. And then my therapist is like, yeah, Tasha,
that's not real. Yeah there's no such thing. And like
my jaw dropping and feeling like my parents just told
(33:37):
me that Santa Calls doesn't exist. But yeah, it's like,
you know, there is no idea of this fully healed person.
We are going to be healing and evolving for the
rest of our lives, right until the very end of
our lives. And I think that's the most beautiful thing
about being human, is that we are going to be
always changing and knowing about ourselves more and more each day.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I think think it does help to have it.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Every helps to have had some healing work before you
go into relationship.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I would say it's absolutely vital.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
But it will add some ease into having you know,
self awareness of you know, we are part of the relationship.
If you haven't experienced any healing before relationship, then you know.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It's going to be tough.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I'm not gonna lie it will it will be very
triug good at times. But it also depends on the
person that you're with, and maybe they've done some healing work,
or maybe they have some self awareness, and being in
their presence might teach you about your own self awareness
and healing as well. But there are so many great
resources like this podcast and great books, and you know,
(34:45):
there's so many things that you can access now that
even if you are in a relationship and you're like,
oh crap, I haven't done years of therapy yet, that's fine.
You know, it's never too late. Just it's about giving
yourself grace and space.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, grace. I love the idea of grace. It's like
self forgiveness, Like you are never going to be the best,
the best partner, Like you're never going to be a
fully perfect partner, parent, friend, colleague, anything like it's always
going to be a bit of a work in progress.
And I love what you said about I don't think
you can ever be fully healed, and you can. You
(35:24):
can approach that and be like that is terrifying I'm
going to hold back from love because I remember when
I was like dating again after my last relationship, which
was terrible, I was like, I don't want to meet
the love of my life as the version of myself
I am right now. I don't think that if I
met the love of my life, they would love me
because there's so much work.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
To be done.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
And then the more I kind of went on, I
was like, well, I don't think that. I think that,
you know, if they wouldn't be able to love me
as well if I was perfect, Like, there are things
that I would want to share with them that wouldn't
would be messy and would be ugly, but I would
hope that they would risk that and I would be
willing to receive that from them. So I think that's
a really beautiful place to end it. Any final thoughts, No.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I guess it's just I was just thinking about what
you just said, and as another thing, but just another
thing that can often substage just in their relationships, is
when we're trying to be yeah, perfect, or trying to
be perfect for our partner but not actually be all
authentic selves. So allow your partner to see the mess
(36:31):
they need to you need to let your messages exist
together so that you can like heel through it together
as well.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And I think that's really important.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
And that's when the real relationship happens, is when you
can both be reallyable with each other.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, that's when the real relationship happens. Absolutely, that's like
the perfect place to like, that is a perfect final
message to leave with the listeners. I really hope that
you enjoyed this episode. I hope you learned something. Tasha,
Thank you so much much for coming on. That was
such an amazing kind of insight, such a great conversation.
I feel like I learned a lot. Where can listeners
(37:07):
find you? Because you are one of my favorite creators.
I love your work. I learn from your work, and
I think that everyone should have a bit more positivity
in their feed Where can they find you on the
internet elsewhere?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
So you can find me on Instagram and TikTok as
real talk, dot therapist, and I also have a sub
stack and I also have a book, so yeah, lots
of places.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yes, the book is called real Talk. It will be
linked in this episode description. It's incredible. I really it
is the perfectly companion guide. If you are you know
trying to learn more about yourself. Obviously you can never
be fully healed, but trying to just figure out where
you sit in the world and how to be a
better version of you and really show up for yourself.
So once again, thank you so much, and as always,
(37:53):
if you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to leave
a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're
listening right now, make sure you give us a follow
at that psychology podcast. If you have an episode suggestion,
or just a question, just a thought of feeling, whatever
it may be, We would love to see you over there,
and we will be back next week with another episode.
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
(00:26):
Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever
you are in the world, it is so great to
have you here. Back for another episode as we out
cover the psychology of our twenties. Today, we're going to
talk about healing past trauma in a new relationship. Romantic
relationships in our twenties are so difficult because there is
(00:49):
no guidebook to how we should be going about it.
There are so many questions that go along with that,
like should I delete the dating apps and try and
meet someone organically? How long does it take to get
over someone? When do I know it's time to break
up with my significant other? But one of the biggest
questions or conundrums I get all the time, and which
I will admit I've personally faced, is do you have
(01:11):
to be healed before entering into a new relationship. That
is a massive question. We undoubtedly carry baggage trauma, memories,
past experiences from the people we have dated and loved
and been connected to, and some of that baggage is
not great, it's not pleasant, and it's perhaps something that
we're not ready to unpack yet.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But does that.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Mean that if you have not done all the necessary
healing you should hold off on love or can you
equally heal whilst being with someone new, someone who treats
you well and helps you into that kind of self
acceptance self love journey. Today we are joined by a
brilliant guest who is going to talk us through a
(01:53):
little bit about this very idea about healing past trauma
in a new relationship. Welcome Tasha, otherwise known as real
Talk Therapists. Thanks for joining us, Oh, thank you for
having me. So if people are not familiar with your work,
you are incredible. You post this just amazing content that
(02:14):
is like factual reasonable. You have Obviously you have a therapy.
You are a therapist in your in your like in
your real life, in your life. Can you like briefly
introduce yourself and tell us about your work.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, So I am a author, psychotherapist and content creator.
So I kind of the very all starters. I became
a child and adolescent psychotherapist. Wels, I really want to
work with children and trauma. And then I did my
training and I realized that actually loads of adults have
(02:50):
this little child in them that has a story to tell.
And so I found myself working with adults and their
past traumas and actually put on a topic like you said,
like a lot of people will find me when they're
in a safe relationship and suddenly all their triggers are
being pushed, and then we'll start to kind of work
together to understand what that is and where that's coming from.
(03:12):
And then I also have a social media platform where
I share free content because obviously not everybody can access therapy,
but everybody can access Instagram or TikTok, So I do
my best to share healing prompts, tips and encouragement to
anybody that needs it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And then obviously through my book as well.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
For those of you who do not or have not
read this book, it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
It's called it's.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Called Real Talk, so like you'll be able to find
it and it's kind of like one of those books
we were talking about this before, that everyone I think needs,
no matter how much therapy you have done, because it
will introduce you to just so many concepts around healing,
around living your best life that we often don't think about.
So I would I did very much recommend going out
(04:02):
and grabbing that. And I just want to say thank
you for coming on once again. Obviously we're talking about healing,
mastered a new relationship. I think it is so interesting
what you said about how a lot of people come
to you and find you when they finally are in
this like safe relationship. They're experiencing safe, healthy love for
(04:24):
the first time, and that is scary to them. I
feel like that's because a lot of past relationships and
experiences can sometimes cause us harm. Like love is one
of the most vulnerable things, one of the most vulnerable
emotions that we can have, and so there is going
to be trauma that comes along with that with I
feel like anything that is beautiful always carries on the
(04:46):
side of darkness or a way that it can be manipulated.
What are some of the examples on maybe like instances
of past trauma that you have come across that we
tend to carry into new relationships.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, I think a lot of the time when people
think about trauma, they think the really big things, which
obviously absolutely are valid potential trauma. But it's not only
those things that can be trauma that we carry. So yes,
there could be things like abuse or neglect that we
had from childhood or even in relationships that we had
(05:17):
in adulthood, but there could also be really small traumas.
They call them, they call them little teas. I think
they call them, I forgot now, small teas, little teas.
It could be as small as being a baby and
having a parent who never picked you up when you
were crying, And that might not sound like a small
(05:38):
thing at first, but actually spends time and time. Again,
you learn as a baby that nobody's there for me,
nobody can attend to my needs, and so I have to,
you know, fend for myself. So even those little small things,
or even a parent who doesn't give that much eye contact,
or a parent who calls you a cry baby as
(06:01):
a child, you know, you internalize all of these experiences
and you expect them in your adult relationships, whether that's
a friendship or in your romantic relationships.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And then another thing.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Is that you know, when you've had those traumas, all
those experiences, it kind of shapes your brain in a
particular way and so you even though those things don't
feel comfortable, they feel familiar, and so you find ways
to reenact them. One thing that I find when people
are in a safe relationship, their brain starts to panic, like, wait,
(06:38):
he texts me back, Like when I text he texts
me back, like what's going on? Like what is this about?
And we might get the ick or we might, you know,
start to think that he's in genuine or the person's
in genuine. But it's just the alarm system in our
brain is saying this is very different, and I don't
know if I trust it yet.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, that's what I can often look like that.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
That's actually so interesting because I've had that experience and
you were saying, oh, they start like texting me back,
they want to see me. And I remember when I
first started seeing my partner and he was so like
adamant that he wanted to make plans, and I was like,
is this guy love bombing me? Like is this guy psychopath?
Like why does he want to see me so much?
Like what's his problem? But it's so true. We are
(07:22):
so used to what we feel like comfortable and familiar
with that we try and recreate that because that is
like the only reality that we've ever known. How does
like these because it's not just past relationship patterns, right, well,
I guess it is. It's past relationship patterns, but not
just past romantic relationship patterns. It also has to do
with the relationship we have with our parents, our family,
(07:44):
our caregivers. How does some of this trauma impact our
approach to dating or love, maybe through self sabotage, self abandonment, settling,
a fear response like the one you spoke about, Yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Kind of have when this happens. We kind of have
this unfinished business that needs to be you know, resolved.
And usually, like our inner child would be the one
that carries that unfinished business and tries to make sure
that it's it gets what it needs. But yeah, often
(08:20):
we don't know how to We know, we know what,
we know what we want to receive.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
We know we want to receive love.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Or to iron out unfinished business, but we don't know
how to do that, and then that's where the kind
of self sabotagey or destructive things can happen.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
One thing I.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Noticed that if we've had kind of a childhood where
maybe our parents let us down or our families let
us down in whatever way. Many people respond by being
really hypervigional, not hypervigionance. Sorry, many people will respond by
being very hyper independent when it comes to dating. So
they'll kind of say, oh, I don't need anybody, or
(08:59):
it's fine, gonna like date those of people, but they
don't mean anything to me. There's this kind of like
almost like I don't actually need the intimacy, that the
intimacy that's just so above me, and actually that's fair,
that's fair of getting too close to somebody because they
might let you down and they might reject you. Yeah,
(09:21):
And that's one way that it can kind of look
is that we, yeah, we almost have this exteria that
we tell ourselves, an exterio narrative that we tell ourselves
that actually gets in the way of us actually receiving
what we need and what we want.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
It sounds a lot like emotional and availability to me,
like the sense of like I've been hurt in the past,
we are so hyper vigilant towards threats that may hurt
us again in the future, that we eliminate in any
possibility for that. Some of those possibilities, some of those
opportunities are actually quite positive, would actually be able to
(09:58):
rewire our brain change. It's really interesting what you talk
about in terms of the hyperindependence, because I think that
that is a way past trauma shows up in our
relationships that is not often recognized because independence is such
a celebrated trait in our society, especially in like Western societies,
especially in individualistic societies, whereby being able to like provide
(10:24):
for yourself, be your own emotional security, your own sense
of comfort, make all the money that you need is
like super admirable. But I think it overlooks this thing
of you do need a community, you do need love
and connection to sustain yourself in a way. So how
do you think, you know, if you've recognized that you
(10:46):
are hyper independent, how do you almost stop doing that?
Like it's such a deeply ingrained behavior, How do you
unlearn those behaviors?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I think it's about kind of asking yourself the question
of what would it be like to receive something that
is soft and warm and light and loving?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
What would that actually feel like?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And what ways am I likely to reject it or
stop it or block it? Just kind of noticing it,
I think is the first thing, and just being aware
of what it looks like when you receive those things,
like when a friend gives you a compliment, how do
you respond when a friend says call me whenever you
need anythink and then you suddenly need something and you.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Still don't call, Like what is that about?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
So I think it's like noticing those things of like
how you stop yourself from receiving what you actually do
deserve but you're telling yourself that you don't need it
for whatever reason. And then I talk a lot about
leaning into the cringe like a lot of people. I
think I believe that the things that we cringe thatt
(11:55):
are the things that we actually desperately need but we're
too scared to say so, whether it's cringing at a couple,
pdaing and huggetting kissing on the road, maybe that stuff
that we actually do want to receive, but we're like, oh,
that's gross.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I never want that, Like maybe I do.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yeah, yeah, So I think like noticing when you have
those cringey feelings and maybe questioning what is the need
underneath that that I might be communicating through my cringe.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
When you said that, I was like, wow, that is
I actually think that is so accurate because the other example.
I always think that is like cringing at people who
you know, like kind of like always validate their partner, right.
I remember seeing this couple on TikTok a little while ago,
and it like went kind of viral. It was this
(12:46):
example of them doing like a love surge. I don't
know if you've seen this, Do you know what I'm
talking about? All right, So now I'll send it to
you because it's just really like lighthearted video where this
couple is like, when one of us feels a lot
of love, we get this thing called a love sir,
and we.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Have to like hug each other and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
And all of these people were like that is so cringe,
Like that is so disgusting. That is like revolting. And
I remember watching that feeling that way, and then obviously
met my partner and was like I get that. I
get it. I wanted that. I wanted to be that
loved that someone was willing to like put that online
for me. So it is like a very interesting thing
how our brain tries to like trick us out of
(13:24):
recognizing our needs as like a protective mechanism in some ways.
Do you think there are other like defense mechanisms as
well that we kind of put up other than cringe
is a big one. I think, are there any others
that like we might not be able to recognize?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, I think like there's obviously we can obviously deny
what we need or but I think also like the
role that we play with that person, Like if we're
dating someone, some of us will if we have childhood
wounds or relationship wounds. We might find ourselves wanted to
(13:59):
be rescued by our new partner or for them to
suddenly fulfill all of our needs, every single need we've
ever had in our lifetime. We want this partner to
have to fulfill for us, which is impossible and poor
person have to have such a huge responsibility. But yeah,
(14:20):
it can feel like, oh, suddenly there's someone a hero
here who can fulfill everything that I need. And that
means that we put them on a pedestal and we
expect them to be really perfect and when they make
a mistake, it's absolutely devastating to us.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I think.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And this is different to like non negotiable mistakes, like
if it was something huge like they were unfaithful, that's different.
But if it's like a mistake like they didn't respond
to your emotions the way that you wanted them to,
but you hadn't told them how you want them to
respond to your emotions.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Things like that.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
It's like, we do need those mistakes to happen because
we then we can grow the relationship and they can
learn about you, you can learn about them. But for
some people it's like like I'm done, I'm out. So yeah,
I think it's that how we deal with mistakes a
partner makes and how we put them on a pedestal
(15:15):
isn't also a big one as well.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I can once again agree with that. Something that's really
interesting about that is like the nitpicking and the sense
of like, if this love isn't perfect, I don't want it,
and constantly looking for problems that actually are not problems.
They're just an excuse for us to leave because we're
feeling vulnerable. When you talked about that of like oh,
(15:39):
my partner hasn't responded to my emotional needs, but I've
never told them why, or small things like oh they
didn't text me back within like two hours, they must
hate me. The relationship is over. And you can sometimes
tell yourself like, well, that's a non negotiable for me,
when actually it's just you feeling quite triggered by their response,
and it's really more symbolic of something deep like you
(16:00):
are actually not ready for this, You're not You're not
prepared to be vulnerable with them. So I think it's
actually really interesting because this really leads into my next question,
the sense of like a healthy relationship will challenge you,
It will cause you to question how you perhaps approached
love in the past. Do you think that there is
a necessary level of healing we need to do before
(16:23):
getting into a new relationship, or is there like we
can Is it that so that we can just heal
in another relationship straight off the bat?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Oh, I think a bit of both. I'll do a
little bit of sharing here. So I'm I actually got
married this year like that.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
She congratulations, Oh my god, that's so sadly wow, so fun.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And I actually met my husband when we were eighteen,
but it did it work out and then we reconnected
with you twenty eight that it's a love story and yeah,
and for it to actually when we reconnected it everything
just made so much.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
But by that time I.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Had had five years of therapy. He had not had
therapy before. But he'd had gone through a really big
life changing thing that had happened for him, and so
we had both changed in a way. We were still
the same people, but we had a new emotional maturity,
whereas when we were eighteen who were so emosh it
(17:22):
was sure there was nothing could have nothing could have
seriously happened at that time. But I think there is
something of like some healing does have to take place,
some kind of self awareness that's to take place for
you to be or to even just start that self
awareness journey is a great bonus, like to then be
(17:44):
able to go into a relationship with somebody else's also
going to have all their own stuff, all their own histories,
all their own baggage, And almost when you're in a relationship,
it's almost like there's all this junk on the floor
and you've got a work out together. Okay, that one
is mine, I'll take this, this spit is yours, that's mine,
(18:04):
that's mine, and you're almost like looking at the mess
in between you and working out divving up. Okay, what
is the stuff that I'm taking accountable busy for and
what stuff are you taking accountability for? But if we
don't have that self awareness. We can't do that. We'll
be like, oh, that stuff is all yours, that's none
of that's mine. I've got nothing to do with all
that stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Oh my god, that's so true. Also, that is such
a beautiful story that you met at eighteen, and it
shows that like people can change, but they can change
in parallel or like change in a way that looks
different from the outside, but it makes them more compatible.
I think it's a really that's a really beautiful story
in terms of also like how people can change in
(18:45):
a relationship alongside each other, even if it looks different.
So congratulations on getting married.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
That's so amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I think we're gonna we're gonna track that now because
like we're talking about marriage're gonna talk about the opposite.
I think sometimes people jump from one relationship to another
very quickly to avoid healing. Is that something that you've seen?
Why do you think that is? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I'm actually currently reading a book it's called really good.
Actually is that she called really good? Actually, really good actually,
And it's about a woman who is in a relationship
for from age like eighteen, and they get married at
twenty eight and then they get divorced two years later,
So it's like a huge it's a huge trauma, but
she goes through a phase of just dating, constantly, constantly dating,
(19:38):
And I think it's that thing of like emotional availability
to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
It is we when we.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
End a relationship or leaven relationship, we actually do have
to be in a space of a loneeness that a
lot of us are terrified of.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
We're taught that aloneeness.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Is, you know, the worst thing anyone could experience, and
that we should avoid being aloner all times like that,
There's just there's a whole air about being alone. And
I think even like a lot of single people that
I know and friends that I know often feel quite
judged for being single at a particular age because of
this kind of judgment. And so I think when we
are finally alone, first we have to sit with that
(20:23):
I'm alone, what does that mean? But also we have
to sit with all the grief of grieving that relationship.
And when we are grieving a relationship, it often brings
up other experiences of grief that we've had in our lives.
So if we've lost a parent or a friend, or
if we you know, we're also grieving the part of
ourselves that was in that relationship or the life stages
that we went through in that relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
We're grieving a lot, basically.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
And nobody wants to sit in their grief, like it's
not the most fun thing to do. And also we're
in a we live in a culture which is, you know,
grief avoidant. We don't we don't like to talk about
death or losses or endings.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
We just move on to the next thing.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
And I think that's where then there's this idea of like, okay,
what there's a song, isn't there and then like a
I can't put her name now, but there's a song,
it's like move on to the next one or something
of that. There's like yeah, there's like so many phrames
of like if one thing doesn't work out, move on
to the next thing.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
And oh it's like thank you next by Aarona Grande.
Yeah yeah, is it that? Okay?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, I was like racking my brain.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
So it's like, yeah, it's our way of coping, but
it's obviously not great for us in the long run.
It's it's just a temporary a temporary distraction.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
An avoidance as well. When you said it sometimes we're
so afraid of being alone, and we're afraid of our solitude.
If you have been in a relationship for a while,
or if you've been in an unhealthy relationship where there
has been so much intensely, you're almost like addicted to
this other person. You're addicted to the excitement, the feeling,
(22:01):
the passion, whatever you want to call it. And when
that ends, there is a huge hole left behind, a
huge you almost are like in the state of like
withdrawal or detox, where you are craving, like the kind
of connection that you previously had. You're craving that love.
And so the first person that walks along you're like you,
(22:23):
you will do just fine, like you are like who
needs therapy when I can someone else can be a
distraction for me. So I think that's like something that
I see quite a lot, especially in our twenties, when
it is so easy to find people who want to
casually date you, like, who aren't looking for commitment, who
are just down for a fun time. You can go
(22:45):
on a dating app, and especially if you're a woman,
like you can find someone pretty quickly who will at
least like want to get a drink. So it's easy,
and that's such a distraction. It's such like a mask,
a facade that we put up where it's like, if
I don't have to see my trauma, I don't have
to deal with it.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, and I think particularly for women or non binary
people like that can be super liberating because you know,
with them it is such a patriarchal, misogynist world. But
suddenly you can go into an app where you have
access to so many potential suitors and you decide who
you get to see, when you see them, how often
you see them, Like it can feel when you've just
(23:25):
gone through a breakup where you feel actually quite helpless
or with your feelings like I'm having to hold all
these annoying, frustrating, sad feelings.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
What do I do with them? I feel helpless?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
I know I can feel more liberated and you know,
more productive by dating lots of people. It's almost like,
you know, yeah, shifting the energy.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
That is so true and so fascinating. I think you
point out something really interesting where it's like you don't
feel in control over the last relationship, so you want
to feel more in control. You want to feel more
in control. There's like these this dating system allows you
to feel that way, even if it is just like temporary,
even if it is a little bit of delusion. So,
(24:08):
say you are someone who has you've broken up with
your partner, there has been things in that past relationship
that maybe you haven't healed from. Maybe they cheated on you,
maybe they were not particularly kind to you, maybe they
maybe it was like a situationship and someone has just
treated you poorly as it made you feel like you
never really deserved anything more, and you find someone amazing.
(24:32):
What are some of the things to look out for
in a new relationship that indicate that you have some
work to do that Maybe I'm going to use the
analogy you gave before. There is some junk on the
floor that you need to pick up.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I think I guess one thing is noticing you kind
of named it earlier, like if you're picking at things,
If you're picking at this is a hard one because
obviously we talk about red flags and we talk about,
you know, obviously being quite hyper vigionant to if the
person you're dating is right for you. But picking at
(25:08):
things is almost like.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
It's almost like so.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
My supervisor calls it a now a now story, So
it's almost like you're seeing something in and now but
actually has nothing to do what's happening and now is
everything to do what's happening in your past. So maybe
you're with someone and they looked at someone passing by,
but for you, it triggered you to think about the
(25:34):
time when your ex was looking at other people or
dating other people behind your But you know, it's this
thing of like you start to merge the two realities together.
So I think just noticing when you are picking at things,
really ask yourself first where is that coming from? Is
it really from the now or is it potentially from
the past, or is it both. I think the other
(25:56):
thing is to notice when you feel safe and when
you don't feel safe. So some people they find that
they feel absolutely safe with their new person, but it's
when they're apart that they don't feel safe and they
start to question things. And that might be your kind
of history of you know, absence. If you've had parents
(26:19):
that are quite absent, or if you had a partner
that's quite absent, it's going to give you lots of
kind of feelings of anxiety when you're away from your
new boot. Basically, so just kind of when that happens,
use it as a time to journal and think about
where is that coming from and where else heavy experienced
at in your life as well.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
That is incredibly relevant to me when I was like,
I'm just sharing so much, Tasha, I'm just using you
for free therapy. That's obviously what that's what this sounds
like at this point. But I remember when I would
be like totally fine when we were around each other,
and then as soon as they left, I'd be like,
oh so they hate me, Oh.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So this is over?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Or like what if this relationship isn't right for me?
And I realized that it was because it's so easy
to feel safe when there's someone there who's going to
constantly validate you. But you have to be able to
validate yourself and able to validate what you know about
the relationship, what you know about the other person. Adding
to that list of kind of signs that indicate on
(27:18):
hill trauma, picking fights or starting fights on things that
are super arbitrary. Obviously there are you should feel free
to express anger, rage, whatever feeling, but there are sometimes
things where you're like, I'm going to start this fight
because I want to emotionally almost bait this person and
see if they're going to leave. I'm going to bring
(27:41):
up something from it really doesn't matter. I'm actually not
bothered by it, but I want I want to see
how far I can push to this person, because you're
kind of seeking the sense of like people have left
me in the past, people have abandoned me. I want
to know now whether this person is going to be
one of those people. So let's put them through a
little bit of a test here. I think that is
a huge, huge one that we see. Yeah, and that's
(28:04):
something that you actually need to You need to be
really honest about that with yourself, because it can become
really problematic or worse comes to worse, you actually end
up losing them and you and you didn't need to,
like you didn't need this person would have been amazing,
but they but they were like, I don't I don't
feel like this is fair. I don't feel like this
is justified. They actually have done the healing themselves to
(28:27):
know that they deserve maybe something different. So part of
that is like communication and being like, hey, actually I'm
not mad about that. I really just wanted to statify.
Let's unpack that. How do you communicate with your new
partner when you are reacting that way or kind of
what you need, whether in those moments where you're trying
to nitpick them, trying to push them away, what you
(28:49):
actually need.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Then Yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I really relate to this one because it was me
and white twitties, and I remember being in a previous
relationship where whenever we were on holiday, the third day
would always be an argument, always be an argument, and
it will always come for me. And again it's a
thing of like, this is a third day with somebody,
how do I know if they still want to spend
(29:12):
time with me? So let me just like pick at
something to see you know that unconsciously, not kind of specifically,
but like unconsciously it was like, oh, it's like it's
been so intimate. Let me it's almost does it feel safe?
So let me pick at something. One thing that helped
with my relationship now. So we had the most arguments
(29:34):
of our entire relationship in the first year. We actually
don't really argue that much, like we do challenge each other,
but we were not very argmentative couple.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
But in the first year loads and one thing that.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
We did was we had on our phone because we
both relate to conflict in very different ways. We had
on our phone just a note which said, kind of
what do I need when there's conflict? And what does
he need when there's conflict? So he needs five minutes
ten minutes to like go reflect, think about things. Was
(30:10):
I'm someone that wants to be like I want answers now,
So then we came we kind of had an agreement
of what we would do. Let's have ten to fifteen minutes.
I write down what I need to write down, and
then I talk to you about it, and then you
go away and you respond, let's respond to it. And
another thing that I also tell to clients when they
feel triggered in a new relationship is to write down
(30:32):
what your triggers are and to share that with your partner.
And obviously that list might grow, that's fine, but to
share that with your new partner and also tell them,
you know, share on the list what you might need
when you are triggered. So do you need them to
leave you alone? Do you need them to give you
a hug? Do you need them to say, let's go
for a walk or let mean just you stay in
(30:53):
the living room where I'll go and make you something
to eat or order something to eat, whatever it is
you communicating to them, you know, almost like a first
aid kit of what to do when you're triggered, because
they're going to be like, oh my gosh, they're triggered,
they're angry at me, or they're this or this, What
the hell do I do in this situation? So you're
at least giving them a tool box that they can
(31:14):
make use of, and then you're also getting what you
need at the same time.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
That is such a good suggestion, like such a good
skill because I'm the same I'm like, I need you
to validate, I need you to tell me it's all
okay right now, Otherwise I'm gonna lose my fucking shit,
Like I'm going to panic, I'm going to throw up,
Like not throw up, but I'm just gonna feel really upset.
I'm going to feel really anxious. I love the idea
(31:38):
of that. I also think I'm going to add to
this just if you really struggle with being honest with
someone around what's happened in the past, around what you need,
me and my partner do this thing called vulnerable chats
where we'll be like, hey, I want to have vulnerable
chats tonight. Tonight is the night that we're gonna have
(32:01):
vulnerable chats, and so we both kind of get into
a headspace of like, okay, like let's be a little
bit nicer to each other, not that wayever mean, but
like let's be particularly gentle. Let's like make this a
gentle environment and set ourselves up for success here so
that neither person feels, you know, not threatened, but like, yeah,
(32:23):
threatened by the other person, not because the other person
is trying to be threatening, but just because they're not
prepared for what's happening, Like they're not prepared for a
big reveal or like a big truth session. So I
think that that is. But I'm gonna use your skills.
I'm gonna use your little tip as well. I think
it's amazing. So I have one final question for you.
(32:43):
What do you think is your perspective here? Do you
need to be fully healed before you enter into a
new relationship or can you allow love to heal you
or can you heal whilst you're in a new relationship.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
So I don't believe in the idea of anyone being
fully healed. Yeah, Like you've read the book, like the
first page was my therapist, that's why I asked you
that question.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
That's not real.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I'm setting you up for a.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Particular So the first page in my book is that
me in therapy and saying, oh my god, I can't
wait to be this amazingly fully healed person. It's going
to be amazing. I could just live the rest of
my life. And then my therapist is like, yeah, Tasha,
that's not real. Yeah there's no such thing. And like
my jaw dropping and feeling like my parents just told
(33:37):
me that Santa Calls doesn't exist. But yeah, it's like,
you know, there is no idea of this fully healed person.
We are going to be healing and evolving for the
rest of our lives, right until the very end of
our lives. And I think that's the most beautiful thing
about being human, is that we are going to be
always changing and knowing about ourselves more and more each day.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I think think it does help to have it.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Every helps to have had some healing work before you
go into relationship.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I would say it's absolutely vital.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
But it will add some ease into having you know,
self awareness of you know, we are part of the relationship.
If you haven't experienced any healing before relationship, then you know.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It's going to be tough.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
I'm not gonna lie it will it will be very
triug good at times. But it also depends on the
person that you're with, and maybe they've done some healing work,
or maybe they have some self awareness, and being in
their presence might teach you about your own self awareness
and healing as well. But there are so many great
resources like this podcast and great books, and you know,
(34:45):
there's so many things that you can access now that
even if you are in a relationship and you're like,
oh crap, I haven't done years of therapy yet, that's fine.
You know, it's never too late. Just it's about giving
yourself grace and space.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, grace. I love the idea of grace. It's like
self forgiveness, Like you are never going to be the best,
the best partner, Like you're never going to be a
fully perfect partner, parent, friend, colleague, anything like it's always
going to be a bit of a work in progress.
And I love what you said about I don't think
you can ever be fully healed, and you can. You
(35:24):
can approach that and be like that is terrifying I'm
going to hold back from love because I remember when
I was like dating again after my last relationship, which
was terrible, I was like, I don't want to meet
the love of my life as the version of myself
I am right now. I don't think that if I
met the love of my life, they would love me
because there's so much work.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
To be done.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
And then the more I kind of went on, I
was like, well, I don't think that. I think that,
you know, if they wouldn't be able to love me
as well if I was perfect, Like, there are things
that I would want to share with them that wouldn't
would be messy and would be ugly, but I would
hope that they would risk that and I would be
willing to receive that from them. So I think that's
a really beautiful place to end it. Any final thoughts, No.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I guess it's just I was just thinking about what
you just said, and as another thing, but just another
thing that can often substage just in their relationships, is
when we're trying to be yeah, perfect, or trying to
be perfect for our partner but not actually be all
authentic selves. So allow your partner to see the mess
(36:31):
they need to you need to let your messages exist
together so that you can like heel through it together
as well.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And I think that's really important.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
And that's when the real relationship happens, is when you
can both be reallyable with each other.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, that's when the real relationship happens. Absolutely, that's like
the perfect place to like, that is a perfect final
message to leave with the listeners. I really hope that
you enjoyed this episode. I hope you learned something. Tasha,
Thank you so much much for coming on. That was
such an amazing kind of insight, such a great conversation.
I feel like I learned a lot. Where can listeners
(37:07):
find you? Because you are one of my favorite creators.
I love your work. I learn from your work, and
I think that everyone should have a bit more positivity
in their feed Where can they find you on the
internet elsewhere?
Speaker 3 (37:20):
So you can find me on Instagram and TikTok as
real talk, dot therapist, and I also have a sub
stack and I also have a book, so yeah, lots
of places.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yes, the book is called real Talk. It will be
linked in this episode description. It's incredible. I really it
is the perfectly companion guide. If you are you know
trying to learn more about yourself. Obviously you can never
be fully healed, but trying to just figure out where
you sit in the world and how to be a
better version of you and really show up for yourself.
So once again, thank you so much, and as always,
(37:53):
if you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to leave
a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're
listening right now, make sure you give us a follow
at that psychology podcast. If you have an episode suggestion,
or just a question, just a thought of feeling, whatever
it may be, We would love to see you over there,
and we will be back next week with another episode.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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