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May 17, 2024 33 mins

In today's episode we're going old school, back to a good old fashioned chatty sit down episode and life update. I have been recovering from a pretty terrible bout of tonsilitis and it's made me realise...I have a toxic relationship with productivity. Even when I'm sick I can't slow down, and I don't think I'm alone. 

We also discuss how I'm finding living alone, a little relationship update and how it feels to have finished my book! All that and more, listen now! 


Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg

Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast 


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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.

Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever
you are in the world, you know the deal. It
is so great to have you here back for another episode.
I hope that everybody has been doing well, taking care
of themselves, finding something to stay optimistic about. Whatever it

is that gets you up in the morning, that gets
you going. I hope you're prioritizing it today. I have
a little bit of a different episode for you. For
long time OG listeners of the show, you'll know that
every kind of six months, I like just to do
a little chatty unplanned Q and a kind of episode,
a sit down chat I kind of get to know me,

a life update, and that is what we're going to
do today. I think it's been about six months since
we last did one of these episodes, so there's a
lot to catch up on and a lot of epiphanies
that I've kind of realized about myself recently, one of
which has to do with the fact that, if you
haven't noticed, I'm a little bit ill. So these last

two weeks, I've had like a really serious case of tonsilitis,
which I don't know if you've ever had tonsillitis, I'm
hoping that you haven't, But for those of you who
have experienced this, it is like a whole body experience.
I think I get it semi regularly, like probably once
a year, and every time I forget what it feels

like to go through, like it is hellish. My whole
body was aching. I lost my voice, which, as somebody
who does podcasting full time, is like literally the world
thing ever. And it's kind of one of those hard
circumstances with this job, right, like if you lose your voice,
you can't do your job. You can't work because your

main service, your main product, your vocal cords are like
non operational. And so it was kind of this like
weird feeling of like, oh my god, I want to
be doing things. I want to be working on the podcast,
I want to be putting out new episodes, but I
genuinely cannot speak. And the frustrating thing was that I

think I've spoken about this before, maybe I'm just gonna
go ahead and spoil it. Why not. I finished my book.
My book is done. It still has a while before
it comes out and goes through the editing process and
all of that. But yeah, it was like a marathon.
When I got back from traveling at the start of
the year, I'd probably only done around like fifteen percent,

and I was like, Okay, time to like shift into
gear and write this frickin' manuscript. So that has been
like really high my priority list. I finished it two
weeks ago, insane. It was like the probably one of
the most like hardest things that I've ever done, like
in my professional and career life in terms of like
sustained mental effort. But here's the catch. I finished the book,

I took a day off, and then I you know
that feeling where you can feel yourself getting sick, Like
the back of your throat is burning and like stinging
and you can't swallow and you're just hoping that maybe
you just have something like stuck in your throat, you've
like eaten something spicy. No, it was the sickness. It
was the illness coming on, and within like two days,

I was like immobilized in bed It was great though,
because it gave me a chance to watch rewatch, not
watch for the first time, obviously, not but rewatch, like
the entire Twilight series. I think if you haven't watched
those recently as an adult, you need to be doing that,
because I brought like a whole new critical feminist lens

to that situation and to those movies that I never
had before. So I watched Twilight, I made a lot
of soup in my new little Dutch oven, and I
also had an epiphany about myself because whilst I literally
felt like I was on my deathbed, the one thing
I couldn't stop thinking about was the fact that I

wasn't being productive. That here I was, with all of
this empty time, this empty space that I should be filling,
sitting at home, and I wasn't doing anything. I would
end like every single evening feeling terrible. Let me say that,
like I was not well. But the resounding thought in

my brain was like guilt. It was it was a
sense of guilt that I hadn't gotten more done and
that I had, you know, optimistically woken up with this
like huge to do list of things that would seem
like were impossible for me to do in my state,
like clean my entire house, write scripts for podcast episode,

like finalize big project like jump on you know, overseas
court like that was not possible. I couldn't speak, I
couldn't like get up without feeling dizzy. So of course
I wasn't moving through my to do list as fast
as I should have been. And I had an excuse
right there, like I had a really valid reason for
why I wasn't able to do that, and yet I

wasn't taking it. That excuse was not available to me.
I just felt so much shame and guilt and frustration
that I just finished this huge thing. I'd finished this
book that was meant to clear up so much more
time for me, and this sickness that I was experiencing,
this tonsilitis that was just like a small roadblock that

I had to push through, and if I wasn't able
to push through it like I must be lazy, I
must be you know, undisciplined, I must be procrastinating, when
in fact it is like a very valid reason not
be getting as much done and through like conversations I
was having with my friends and with my boyfriend, I
was like, oh, this is not just a problem when

I'm ill. This is a problem at like all stages
of my life, that I continually tie my worth and
my sense of self to my output and how much
I am able to do in each day and how
hard I'm able to push myself. And I do think
that I have become one of those people who like

sees busyness as a status symbol. And there was a
really fascinating article in the Atlantic about this recently that
was essentially, like, you know, the way that we have
glorified hustle culture and the way that we have glorified
and idolized success in our society and in our culture
means that it's seen as impressive when we don't have boundaries,

when we don't take necessary time off, when we are
genuinely falling apart, when we don't prioritize the things that
are import into us, like our wellness, like our relationships,
like our free time. All of those things are seen
as impressive these days. And I think that I've really
been bitten by that bug. And on a deeper level,

it's not just apparent when I'm unwell or when I'm sick.
It's also very apparent to me now in how I
operate on a daily So, for example, I was talking
to my partner about this and he made this really
fascinating point. He was like, even when you are having
quote unquote downtime, you feel the need to be socially

productive within that. So like, if I have a weekend off,
it's like seeing that weekend not as space to relax
and not as space to be free and spontaneous. It's like, Okay,
we have these like quadrants, we have these time slots
that I need to fill. I need to be seeing
people on Saturday night. I need to be seeing people

for lunch on Sunday. I need to be seeing people
on Monday on Monday morning for a brunch, Like I
need to be catching up on my social life. I
need to be socially productive even when I'm not being
i don't know, career productive or like work work life productive.
And I was kind of shocked when he said that,
because I was like, Wow, you are absolutely right. I

always just thought that I just had a higher threshold
for I don't know, connection and for seeing people. I'm
such an extrovert that it didn't feel I don't know,
it didn't feel odd, it didn't feel problematic to need
to fill my weekends in such a way or to
fill my off time in such a way, because I

do gain energy from seeing other people, from seeing my friends,
from like hearing about their lives. But when he pointed
that out, I was like, no, I approach socializing like
it is a to do list, and it's like kind
of sickening, like it was. And it's not to say, like,
oh my gosh, my friends are like a task that
I need to check off, or I have like an

ongoing list of like I need to see this person
by this day, almost like a deadline. Now, it's just
more that when I see blank space in the calendar,
I want it to be utilized. And if I've devoted
that space to you know, not doing work, the other
way I can utilize it is by socializing. So yeah,
it became kind of apparent to me that I had

a problem. I think that when you are genuinely so
unwell that, like I said, I couldn't get out of bed,
I couldn't speak, I couldn't go outside. And yet the
first thing that I'm thinking of is how productive I'm
being and what I'm contributing and what I'm getting done
probably not a sign of a healthy relationship with work
or with you know, your sense of self esteem or

confidence when it comes to not putting things out and
not being busy. And then secondly, that need for social
productivity was another element and facet of this that I
don't think I'd ever been aware of before. And I
kind of was like doing a little bit of investigating
because I think that the big misconception I had was
that I'm just an overachiever. That is who I've always been.

I've been somebody who is a perfectionist, somebody who is
an overachiever, somebody who likes working hard. I don't need
to work hard. I like it. But that was really
like opening a bit of a box me because I
was like, why do I like it? Why? Who likes
working more than they like having downtime? Who likes feeling
guilty for taking a break. It's the people who tie

their identity and receive validation from feeling successful and feeling
like they're doing things. And often that really ties back
to how you were, like who you were taught to
be as a child. And when I say who you
were taught to be, I mean who you were conditioned
to be through praise and through feedback and through comments

from your teachers and your parents and your mentors and
your friends that you meet this archetype. You are the overachiever.
You are good at school. You are someone who is successful.
You are a hard worker, you are gifted academically. When
you hear that repeated, as I think, is you know,
quite a nice thing. Obviously we want to like positively

reinforce children and shower them with praise and make them
feel good about themselves. But when everything you've heard about
yourself that is good, everything you hear about yourself that
makes you valuable, it makes people like you, is tied
back to how hard you can work and how much
you can excel and what you can give, it's really
hard to have any nuance in terms of your personality

and in terms of your identity. Who am I beyond output?
If you've never been told that you are a kind person,
that you are a generous person, that you are a
creative person, that you're somebody who just brings peace to
their life that prioritizes their happiness, Like those are things
that we are not necessarily praised for or complimented on.

As children. We're complimented on how we meaningfully apply ourselves
to the pursuit of success and things like grades and
things like academics, and so I think the older you get,
you have an opportunity to kind of release yourself from
that identity. If you're somebody who has always been seen
as an overachiever, or like a gifted child, or somebody

who is an extremely hard worker, you do have an
opportunity to kind of throw away that identity when you're
moving through that like gaining independence phase and trying to
assert yourself, as you know, independent from other people's judgments.
I don't think I ever did that though. I don't
think that part of my identity was ever I never

questioned it. I never saw it as unhealthy. I never
saw the bad side of it, And so it's created
this version of me who doesn't know when to fucking stop.
Like sorry to swear, but it's like quite frustrating to
only realize that at like twenty four. The other component
of it is that I think that I'm somebody who
likes to fix things. I don't like seeing that there

is a problem or something that needs to be done
and not in some way in some capacity working towards
a solution for that problem. I know for a fact
that I am somebody who doesn't enjoy the mess or
the clutter of an unorganized life, and doesn't enjoy the

sense that there are things that are nagging me in
my brain that are kind of like screaming, get me done,
get me done. So there is actually a term for this.
I don't know if I would call it a condition,
but an experience in psychology, and it's called the Zurginik effect,
and it essentially refers to how for some of us,

the sense of an unfinished task is incredibly difficult to overlook.
It is incredibly, you know, hard to move forward or
to relax when you know that there is something that
you haven't completed that you forgot about. For example, if

you know you have an essay too, but you've put
time aside for it next weekend, you've got a whole
twelve hour period to get it done. You know that
you'll get it done, you still can't help yourself or
stop yourself from focusing on it in the weeks prior,
in the days beforehand, when you don't have the capacity

to do it. You still know that it's going to
be finished. You're just not working on it right now,
but it lingers and you can't forget about it. For me,
that's my like to do list. As soon as I've
put something on my to do list, I've realized this
about myself, as soon as soon as I've said to myself, like, Okay,
I want to do this. I need to get this done.
I want to have like five or six podcast episodes

like lined up. I want to be fully planned for
this trip. I want to have this like whole script
fact checked and done by tonight. There is no way
that I can stop myself before that gets done. It's
honestly a compulsion. It is like an obsession. And again
it's this Serganick effect where there is something in our

brain that keeps coming back to unfinished business. I think
all of these factors, all of these experiences ultimately lead
back to this toxic productivity that I'm speaking about, this
unyielding sense that there is always stuff that needs to
be done, There is always more that can be done,

and not doing it is kind of a blemish on
my character and is something that I should feel ashamed for,
because somewhere out there, somebody is not making the same
compromises as me, somebody is not taking the rest day,
somebody is not being quote unquote lazy like I am,
and it's really really unhealthy and problematic. So in like

the couple of well, in like the week that I've
realized that this is something that I kind of need
to address, and I'm sure it's going to take me
a while to really get my thumb over it and
to get control of it. But some of the things
I started pondering was whether I would be as unforgiving
when it came to other people in my life who

were experiencing the same thing. So let me articulate that
a little bit better. Obviously, me being sick gave me
a reason to not be able to do all these
things that I wanted to do, and that is actually
super valid. That is an excellent reason to not be
as productive or active in your life. But for me personally,

I am my harshest critics, as I'm sure you are
your harshest critic as well. So I thought about the
compassion and the care that I would show a friend
who was going for this, if you know, like my
best friend Aaron was like to me, oh my gosh,
and it's interesting because she actually called me yesterday and
she has COVID, and so I actually got to have
this conversation with somebody else, the conversation that I should

have been having with myself. And she said to me,
she was like, I'm super sick and I just can't
get anything done. I need to clean the house, like
we have visitors coming. I like need to call and
stick to work. But I feel so lazy. And what
I said to her was that is ridiculous. You have
no reason to feel lazy. Your body is screaming at
you to take a break. It is telling you it's

time to rest. It. You know is unwell, and you
need to really care for it and mend it. Otherwise
this is just going to come back even stronger. Otherwise
it's going to take more time for you to heal.
This was all these things that I was saying to her.
I was like, you need to be kinder to yourself.
You need to be nicer to yourself. This is me
giving you permission to rest and to relax and to

just get better. And I believe that fully. I was fully.
I believe that fully. That's the only thing I can
say about that. I was like, yes, Aaron, my beautiful, darling, gorgeous,
caring friend, deserves to take a break. How Come I don't?
How Come I cannot apply that same compassion and that

same narrative to myself. I think it goes beyond just
our inner critic and how loud they are, and more
so towards this concept of like the spotlight effect, and
the spotlight effect essentially says that our flaws, our perceived failures,
our perceived laziness, everything that we see is wrong or
bad about ourselves. That is so much more visible to us.

Whereas when we look at our friends, we don't see
those things about themselves that they don't like. We don't
see the reasons that they believe they deserve to be criticized.
We don't see the things that we see about ourselves
because they're hidden in their own internal worlds. So when
we have the option or the choice to display empathy

to us, we're seeing the scales is a lot more
tipped to all the ways that we're failing and all
the reasons we don't deserve a break. Whereas our friends,
our family, the people we love, they do because they're
not as lazy as us, They're not as unproductive. They're
not as bad. They are more worse the rest and
the relaxation and the empathy and the kindness. So it's

a bit of a disease. Honestly, I think that it's
something that was really important for me to honestly see
in real time was the difference and the distinction between
the conversations I was having with myself about taking care
of my body versus the conversations I was having with
somebody that I truly love and who I really care about.

So that is one factor of it. I think the
other thing that I need to better recognize and get
better at doing is also just like finishing my day,
when a task is done, I think I have this
like serious problem where yes, I may have done everything
that I actually wanted to do on my to do list,
but I'm like, well, maybe the reason that I did

everything was because I actually didn't push myself enough. Maybe
I could have had the capacity to do more. So
it's like a lose lose situation. Either I don't do
everything that I need to do, or I do everything
that I need to do, and that's just an opportunity
for me to just pile on more or to believe
that I've underestimated my ability during that day or my

all my time. So yeah, it's a bit of a maze.
I think that the things that I really need to
do moving forward is like, Okay, let's focus on just
doing a couple of things each day and doing them
really well, because I think that that also keeps my
attention on what I really need to do, rather than
feeling caught up in like the guilt spiral that just

creates panic and worry that I'm not going to get
things done and so I kind of half ask them.
So that's something I really need to prioritize, and just
like finishing when the task is done, Like if I
did what I needed to do, why do I need
to do next week's to do list? Why do I
need to start on tomorrow's to do list? Like it's
just I think at that point, you're asking for an

endless list of things that need to be completed that
never ends, and you're asking for a situation in which
you just genuinely never know when to stop, like what's
the end? And for that because if it's not getting sick, well,
like when do you stop? If you don't stop on
you're sick. If you don't stop on vacation, if you
don't stop when the task is done, it's kind of

like you're in this cycle until death. And that is
not necessarily the way that I am planning on living
my life. So that's been my first revelation as of
recently that I am needing to address my toxic productivity,
not that I apply it to others, just that I
apply it to myself and find a healthier relationship and

you know, balance with my work and my need to
actually be a humans and sustain the other parts of me.
It's been a big wake up call as of recent
But there are some other really positive things going on
in my life that I want to share with you,
and we're going to talk about them and kind of
lighten the load, lighten the mood a little bit after
this short break. So I want to give you guys,

like a little personal update around like my living situation
and how things have changed there, a little love life update,
and then a general update around the next six months.
So the biggest thing is that I've finished my book,
which is like insane if you are considering writing a book, nonfiction, fiction, poetry,

whatever it is. I could not could not express this more.
You really should do it. But the other part of
that is that it's going to be really, really hard,
because like the average manuscript is like eighty thousand words,
which is ridiculous, like absolutely insane when you think about it,
that is almost the size of like a PhD thesis.

It's like eight times the size of a master's thesis.
So pretty intense. That's been really like on my mind
in my life, taking up a lot of my time recently.
The other thing is that I now live alone, which
is incredible and possibly one of the best decisions I've
ever made. I lived with roommates for the last seven years,

like since I was seventeen when I moved out of home,
I've lived with other people and having other people around,
and as somebody who I think has clud an odd,
strange relationship with like loneliness, it always felt like, until
I moved in with a partner, I needed to live
with other people because I couldn't like imagine the silence

of being alone. Turns out, it is not as hard
as I thought it would be. It's actually super peaceful
and super fulfilling. I got a record player, which I
think really helped because I love being out of like
playing music when no one's home. I think it fills
the silence. But the other component of it is that
you just get to do whatever the hell you want

with your own space. You know. You get to have
your friends over and bring like the mattress out into
the living room. You get to leave the kitchen as
messy or as clean as you want it. You get
to take the bins out when you would like if
something isn't done and it's on you. There's not this
like bubbling resentment towards somebody else. So I freaking love it.

I absolutely love it. I can't imagine. I really am
thinking back to how I lived with other people for
so long. I used to live with like really good
friends of mine, and I love them so much. That
was amazing. I think the change happens when you start
to live with strangers, though, and it's kind of like, well,
you know, you just don't have that same connection that

makes it feel worthwhile. And I had the opportunity to
move out by myself to like a little cottage house
I was about to say, where I live probably not smart,
but to like this little cottage house in like Sydney,
and I just got like the most amazing deal. I
really cannot express it. At the time, I was like, actually,

I'm gonna clarify. I was like, yeah, I've got the
most amazing deal. Like this is so affordable. How is
this house so cheap? I'll tell you why. The house
is searching number one. It doesn't have air conditioning or
like any form of heating, and the windows are super
super thin. The bedroom is like right onto the street,

which is like kind of a vibe because you can
hear every single person's conversations, but it also means that
the house is freezing cold. And the bathroom. The windows
in the bathroom are like those pained kind of windows
that like they'll be like six and they'll like open up.
Do you know what I'm talking about. It's like, oh
my gosh, I really wish I could show your photo,

but like, yeah, it's kind of like those pained windows
that have like slats and they basically they shouldn't be
in a bathroom, especially the ones that are this old,
because they don't close all the way and some of
them are like cracked. So it means that anytime you
go in there during winter, which it is now winter,
in Australia, it's like freezing cold. Probably not if you're

probably not freezing if you live in the US or
like Canada or someplace where it snows, Like I am
still living in Sydney. The cold is seat gets is
like fifteen degrees celsius, so I can't complain too much.
But yeah, that's the other reason why this house is cheap.
And the final reason is that you can hear everything
that the neighbors are doing, and they can hear everything
that you're doing, which I don't mind. But my next

door neighbor is cranky. And I was having like a
games like a board game night with like four of
my close friends. Only two of us were drinking out
of the five of us, And it wasn't like we
were like listen, we're not doing like fireball shots. We're
not playing like loud music on the TV. We are
sitting on the kitchen table playing herd Mentality, which is

an amazing board game if you haven't heard of it.
And she like comes over and is like basically threatens
to like call the police on us and is like
you are being a nuisance. Bear in mind it is
nine forty five on a Saturday night with five women
in their twenties eating pasta, playing a board game. This
is not a rager. And so yeah, now we're in

the like kind of tug of war where she oh
my god. Also, anytime I leave my front door open
because I like to have like a breeze coming through,
she'll I like see her walk past and like stare
in with her little dogs, and it is super strange.
I'm like, yep, I still live here. Don't worry. I'm
not going anywhere. So that's one thing. Final thing. It's

under a flight path. Probably should have said that first
as somebody who does like audio work for their like profession. Yeah,
it's required a few adaptations to my life because I
really cannot express how loud this is. It is like
a there. It is like full on, like Boeing seven

seven sevens or whatever, the huge cargo planes like flying
so close to my house that I can see the
screws on the bottom of the plane. It is something
you get used to, though, So listen, I thought I
was getting a good deal. It still is a good deal,
and I'm still so happy. But this is your reminder
that if something seemed a little bit too good, to
be true. You should definitely check in on that, because

for what I'm playing, I definitely think that, yeah, I'm
getting what I'm I'm getting what I'm paying in terms
of the faultiness of this place and the downsides. Moving
on to a little love update, honestly all positive on
this front. I feel like you guys have really been
following along with this relationship. Obviously, when I started this podcast,

I was like devastated and heartbroken from my last relationship ending,
and then you know, throughout the course of doing the show,
I had my heart broken again in a situationship. And
then a year ago I came on and was like,
oh my god, surprise, surprise, I've met somebody, and what
the heck. It's going really well and this is really

healthy and he's a really nice person and I don't
feel insecure at all. What is happening? What is going on?
And yeah, we celebrated out one year last week, which
is like absolutely wild because I still remember sitting down
for that life update episode and being like, I've met
this really nice guy and I really hope that it works.

But yeah, he's we're doing amazing. I don't like to
speak about him too much because he has like a
like real big boy job, if that's even like a
way of saying it. Like he's a lawyer and has
like real clients, and you know, it just feels a
lot more consequential and like a lot more serious. And
I don't want to like bring him on as much

and like talk about his life as much in case
it like interrupts with what he's doing. But he doesn't
really seem to mind. So shout out to the love
of my life. He is so sweet. This is your
reminder to freaking wait for the right person and you
will know it when you see it and when you
feel it, like it's I don't know, I hate all
those cliches. I'm so sorry to be that person that

I hated when I was single who was like when
you know, you'll know, But like, fuck, it's really true.
It's really true. And as for like a more general
life update, as I'm recording this, I'm literally leaving for
London in tomorrow. Tomorrow. I'm leaving for London at like
twelve pm tomorrow. My stomach kind of dropped when I

said that. I'm still like deathly afraid of planes, So
we'll see how that one works out, I'll be fine.
It is a long flight from Australia though, so if
you're like listening from the UK, please hit me up
if you've ever done the flight to Australia because you
will know how like heinous it is. Is like twenty
four hours on a plane and the jet lag is

just like I'm not looking forward to it, but I
am looking forward to traveling around London. I'm going to
Bristol as well for an exciting launch with somebody who
lives in Bristol. That's all I'm gonna say on that.
Probably should have announced that before I announced my book
that doesn't come out for a year. But nonetheless, I'm

going to Bristol. I'm going to Paris for three days.
One of my best friends from UNI is living there
as an actor. Insane the places that people go, so
I'm just super excited. I'm super excited to I think
that was also like some of the pressure behind why
I was like, I need to get better. You know,
this sickness cannot ruin this for me, Like I've spent

the last months and months like working so hard. I
want to break when I'm overseas. I think it's looking up,
but it looks like I'm going to have a really
good time. So if you're in the UK, please like
also message me with suggestions. I feel like every time
I go to London, I do like the same ten things,
and I need to diversify the experience because when people

come and visit me in Newtown and in Sydney, I'm
always like, no, no, no, we're not going there. I'm
a going to show you the hidden spots and they
have a great time. So I need like a tour
guide for me in like in Hackney, in Camden, in London.
So please send me your suggestions, And thank you for
listening this far to this rambly episode, this life update

around my recent I guess like emotional mental health epiphanies
to do with productivity, but also just it's nice that
you care about what's going on in my life and
not just the psychology and the science of everybody else's lives.
So thank you so much for listening, for making it
this far. Make sure that you are following along on

Instagram at that Psychology podcast if you have anything you
want to share. If you have an episode suggestion, you
know I love to hear them. So many episodes coming
up are suggestions from the listeners, so we see every
single one of them and it all goes into this
huge master list that I love to cyst like sift
through and cyst through. You'll sift through and have a

look at your amazing ideas because you are so creative
and have such good perspectives on your twenties and your lives.
Make sure you're following along as well with the podcast here,
follow on Apple podcasts on Spotify. Leave a five star review.
I read them all if you feel cool to do so.
I would love to see some positive feedback or feedback

of any kind, and thank you so much for listening
and for following along. We will be back on Friday
with another episode. Until then, stay safe, be kind to yourself,
and we will talk soon
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