May 20, 2024 • 39 mins
We often think the secret to not being passive in our lives is to fill up our days, set countless goals, always be striving for progress and productivity. What if we told you the secret was slowing down? In today's episode I am joined by Caroline and Ann Catherine from Girls with Goals as we discuss:
- What it beens to be passive vs. active vs. intentional
- How to create momentum
- Why big, long term goals aren't the secret to success
- How to develop a healthier relationship with yourself and your spare time
Follow Girls with Goals here: @girlswithgoalspod
Find Girls with Goals wherever you get your podcasts.
Follow Jemma here: @jemmasbeg
Follow the podcast here: @thatpsychologypodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here.
Back for another episode as we, of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. A subject I'd like to
talk about a lot is agency and the fact that
I think in about eighty percent of instances in our lives,
(00:45):
we get to control our reality and what we're experiencing.
I think so much about how we operate and how
we function our daily lives is actually within our power.
But a lot of us choose to live quite passively,
and we let this thing happened to us, rather than
actively choosing who we are, our outlook, our experiences, our behaviors,
(01:07):
who we spend time with. We say it all the
time on the podcast, but I think sometimes the easiest
and most convenient choice is not always the best for you,
And this is especially important to recognize in our twenties,
when we are at such a formative juncture and in
the midst of really deciding what we want long term,
what we want with our careers, with our health, with
(01:28):
our finances. I don't think that we can actually afford
to be passive. It doesn't mean that we have to
be constantly kind of finding for the next big thing
and overworking ourselves. We don't always have to be focused
on achievement. But I think more so that we need
some kind of structure to how we think about our future,
but also about our present and what kind of life
we are creating for ourselves. And I thought who better
(01:50):
to bring on for this episode than the wonderful hosts
of Girls with Goals to have kind of a discussion
and informative conversation on how not to be passive when
it comes to creating a happy and fulfilling life. Sir
Carolyn and Catherine, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Hi, thank you so much for having us. I'm Caroline,
I mean Catherine. We are where twin sisters. We're based
in Boston in the US, and we host the show
Girls with Goals. We talk so much on our show
about health and wellness, but mostly in the sense of
how it fits into our lifestyles and ultimately building your
(02:27):
own most confident life. However that's going to look. And
you know, every topic we dive into is something that
we're actively navigating at the same time. And I think
figuring out how to have that right balance of control
over your lives while at the same time being kind
of trusting in the path and not trying to get
too overwhelmed with the control is something that we're always
working to figure out. So I think hopefully we'll be
(02:50):
able to come and bring some good advice on how
to stop being passive in your life and take more
control without it being too overwhelming of a feat today
On Yeah, I love the word control in a good
way is what we're what we're getting at here controls
and you're in the power of your life, which I
think is really important when we're talking about whether or
not you're living passively. So we love you know, like
(03:13):
Caron said, this is a time that we're navigating actively
ourselves and that's what we talk about. So you know,
we're working on trying not to be passive or being
aware of that and knowing how to be confident within that,
and you know, actively work towards moving away from passive
life and taking more control and feeling empowered in our
lives is what we talk about all the time. So
(03:35):
this is a really great episode. Thank you so much
for having.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Us absolutely well. I feel like that's something I really
admire about you guys. Firstly, you're in your twenties, which
I think is like obviously the psychology of your twenties, Like,
I like talking to people who also kind of get it.
But I really admire how you're both like quite intentional
in how you live, right. You really like prioritize the
good parts of life as much as you can, even
(03:59):
when it's difficult. You guys are full time students, you're
running your own businesses. When it comes to that, what
do you think it means to be intentional, especially when
we have like so many other things on our plate
that can make it really difficult to focus on bringing Like,
I feel like being intentional sometimes gets compared to putting
(04:20):
in more effort, right and having to give more energy
when you don't actually have it. But what does it
mean for you guys?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, it's definitely not just straight up putting in more energy.
And I think we've all been there where that is
our default because it's the simplest, seemingly simplest solution before
you actually you know, try out some solutions. It's kind
of our default, our go to just if things aren't
working out or they're not working out as you want them,
to just throw more effort in, like do more things
(04:47):
work harder? Not the answer all the time, because that
almost pushes you further into that, you know, passiveness. Anytime
I've felt like I'm in a state of passive myths passiveness,
First of all, I don't realize it until like a
month or two or even more down the line, and
I'm like, oh my god, I've been living on autopilot,
Like I couldn't even tell you what happened these past
four months. But having the you know, ability to acknowledge
(05:14):
that and pull yourselves pull yourself out of that is
a really intentional thing. And it's not to say that
you're never going to have times of feeling passive or
you know that you have to throw yourself an autopilot,
but when you do notice it, being able to, you know,
pull yourself out of it. And sometimes that means not
throwing more more gas on the fire, but taking a
step back and going back to those foundations and so
(05:36):
knowing that there are a bunch of different options and
that maybe not putting all your effort in and losing
all of your steam and absolutely burning out is the
best answer. Sometimes it's taking a step back and going
back to your you know, foundations, the things that you
absolutely have to do.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, I totally agree. I read this article actually like
today by The Atlantic called like the Status of being busy,
which is that like in this day and age, being
busy is seen as like as being successful, as being popular,
as being like a go getter, when actually busyness really
(06:13):
just demonstrates yes, obviously like a period of just having
a lot odd and chaos, but actually it represents an
inability to set personal boundaries in a way because you
don't and you haven't been intentional and putting time aside. Right.
I think you made a really good point. Like we
talk about not being passive, not being passive doesn't mean
(06:36):
being active, right, Like you would think that that's the opposite, right, Okay,
if I don't want to be passive, I better be
doing things all the time. But it's actually being intentional,
it's actually being like Okay, wait is this really I
think I really liked the example of you being like, okay,
feeling the need to spend every single night with friends,
feeling need to go out to go out to dinner.
(06:59):
That is the easiest thing, because saying yes is the
easiest thing, but saying no is the hard thing, and
it's sometimes the riving. So how do you think we
can shift our outlook and our behaviors to be more intentional?
What do you think like kind of being in the
passenger being in like the driver's state, not the passenger state,
really like mains in our twenties.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, Ironically, some of the times that I've felt most
passive in my life have also been times where I'm
most busy because I am filling my plate with all
of these things while I'm being avoidant to maybe more
of the personal goals and the personal things that are
actually going to fulfill me. Busyness does not always equal fulfillment,
And sometimes I think the hardest thing is to slow down,
(07:43):
be honest with yourself, spend time just with yourself and
like doing those slower things and figuring out kind of
what your next step is and deciding what step to
take forward, rather than being so busy that you can't
even make that choice. You're just always moving. Sometimes for
me that that busyness actually is the passiveness, because I'm
being avoidant to my own life, and so I think
(08:06):
the first thing that I would do if you find
yourself being passive is to try to figure out why
that is happening. Is it fear of not being able
to reach a goal that you have in your mind.
Is it a lack of self confidence to spend time
with yourself and to step up, because maybe you've never
been very comfortable just being alone with yourself and being
accepting of yourself and working on yourself. Or maybe it's
(08:27):
even just being kind of overwhelmed and unsure of which
direction to go, because especially in our twenties, when nobody
has their lives figured out at all, and we see
all of these people around us in our own lives
and then also perpetuated on the internet going in all
different directions all at once, it can be really overwhelming
to decide which direction we even want to go in,
(08:47):
and then how do we even take that first step
forward if there's one hundred options and we don't know
which one to do. So being able to take that
step back first rather than filling our lives with more busyness,
and see why am I being passive? Is it fear?
Is it self confidence? Is it that I'm overwhelmed? And
then what is that first step forward for myself that's
actually going to work, not just what everyone else is doing?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
And I think that comes down to values, right, That
is such a precious and personal thing for each of us.
But when we're really caught up in comparing ourselves, that's
a big one. Seeing what everyone else is doing and
feeling like we're coming up short. Your motivation is not
the same as theirs. You have no idea why they're
(09:28):
doing what they're doing, why it's important to them, their stamina,
their energy reserves, whether they're actually sitting back at the
end of the day and being like, Wow, nothing I
did today was intentional. This was all just like clutter
that I felt compelled to do. So I think taking
time to be like, Okay, I don't actually need to
know what I want exactly, I don't need a five
(09:51):
year plan. I don't need to have it all worked out.
I think having it all worked out is actually a
bad thing because you have no room for flexibility and
for surprise and for exac It's mainly being like, what
are the values that I want to guide my decision
making by. Is it that I want to be like
guided by creativity and I want to be exploring ways
to be creative? And that means that no, I can't
(10:13):
say yes to all my social plans because I do
need space for rest and space for my imagination. Is
it okay, I'm really motivated by growth, and I'm really
motivated by intelligence, or I'm really motivated by whatever it
is that is like, oh, I think independence. Maybe that's
like the value that drives your kind of financial goals
(10:35):
and how active you are and your financial goals. Right,
it's like, stop trying to pursue things from a place
of wanting to please others or wanting to do what
others are doing. That's what makes you passive. Do it
from a place of once again, when you're intentional about
your motivations, your inspiration, your mission, I think everything becomes
a lot easier. Have you guys kind of found that.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Exactly something that has always grounded me in my own
life because it can definitely be overwhelming for me to
think about, like where do I want to see myself
in five years? What do I want my exact career
to be, because for me, that's never been something that
has come naturally picking one path. But what really grounds
me and helps me be more stable and be more
(11:18):
active in my life regardless of that, is to think about, Okay,
I don't know exactly what the tangible thing is that
I need. I don't need to know exactly the tangible
path and that career and whatever the relationship in the timeline.
I don't need to know that. But what really matters
to me is to know, like what my values are
that are always going to be there, and what the
feeling that I want in life is. Because your twenties,
(11:42):
and I say this as someone who's just basically started
my twenties, I'm only twenty one, but I think it's
such a good time to experiment because nobody knows exactly
where they're going. And like you said, I don't think
you should. I think that's kind of a bad thing
because you're gonna put yourself on a path and you're
not going to let yourself change your mind. You're not
going to keep yourself open to other opportunities that might
(12:02):
come up. And so when I try to focus on
the feeling that I want out of my life instead
of those tangible things, I can really keep myself open
to opportunities that come up and all of these things
that might bring those feelings for me. So, for example,
if we're talking about that feeling of independence and freedom,
you can find different ways to get that out of
(12:23):
your life on big levels and on little levels throughout
your day. So maybe that financial independence or just that
feeling of freedom in general. On the grandest scheme you
can think of is owning your own business and working
for yourself. But maybe that's not a tangible, reachable thing
for you in this moment, but you still want to
have that feeling. So maybe a lower level of that
is doing some traveling or maybe reading books and just
(12:46):
educating yourself on things that you're interested in and taking
that sense of agency and independence in your life. And
maybe even on a day to day level, it's just
doing activities by yourself. So when you know what those
values are and what those felseelings are, I think that
it helps you to be active in your life from
day one, because it doesn't need to be I'm jumping
right to the finish line right now, but there are
(13:09):
things that I can find today, this week, this month
that still give me that feeling, and things can really
snowball from there. Sometimes it's kind of silly. Our show
name is Girls with Goals, But in the recent I mean,
we've been doing this for almost three years, and the
reason i'd say two years or answer to the question
like what are your goals or what do you want
to do with your life? Are healing, we have an
(13:29):
answer like we just want to chase improvement and chase
feeling good, and that is I don't think it's the
answer that we would have said three years ago when
we started this show. I probably would have given you
a list of like five thanks that I want to accomplish,
and you know, maybe I did accomplish those five things.
But doesn't stop when you accomplish them. And life also
doesn't stop if you don't accomplish your goals or if
(13:51):
you have some failures along the way. And so I
think a massive, massive point that we've learned in the
past couple of years that this has been something that
we've you know, had to art take you over and
over again, the concept of goals and in our frame
of mind, what are our goals or that we don't
have any or at least not tangible ones necessarily, but
we do have a direction. We have a kind of
(14:13):
quality that we expect of ourselves. And I think that
is a really big point that's taken us. I mean,
speaking for myself, but taking me at least into a
more you know, controlled and intentional and like really self
aware journey into improvement and whatever that may be literally
(14:34):
every aspect of life. So I can't tell you I
go to the gym every day. I'm not gonna sit
here and tell you I have a gym goal because
I couldn't tell you that. I don't want to style
right like you do a continuous thing exactly. And I
mean three years ago, I was like, I want to
hit one hundred and fifty pounds squat. I don't know
(14:54):
who my squad weigh is, right, and I couldn't tell
you how much I squat. Right now, I would go
to the gym because I want to continue showing up
myself and I want to feel strong and I want
to be healthy, and like that's why I do it.
And of course things come in and out. You have
different mini goals in your life, but and it's really
fun to set many goals along the way, but that's
not like the end all, be all goal. And sometimes
(15:16):
when you do set those really tangible and really specific goals,
that's when you feel the passive if passiveness come in,
because that's all you're working towards, your kind of tunnel
vision towards that, and everything else falls behind or isn't
front of mind. You're not really putting intentional effort towards it,
and then you get into this rut where things feel
so much like clutter. I'd love that word that you
(15:38):
said earlier, that even the goal you're working towards feels
a little bit like clutter. And then you're gonna get
to a point really what am I even doing? And
I mean at that point you're in the passive era
and you're I guess snapping out of it. But that's
how you kind of in my mind, that's in my experience,
how I've become passive is almost by getting too specific
on what I want in an overwhelming sense.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's actually so interesting because one of my questions was
was going to be how is your relationship to your
goals changed as you get older?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Oh? Wow?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And I was like, that's like such a good answer.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, well, dely is like a maturity thing too. I mean,
I know you're so fan, I know Karen's heir so fan,
but the like please please yell at me if I
get the lyrics wrong. But eighteen and nothing else? How
do you know everything at eighteen and nothing at twenty one? Oh? Yeah,
that was right. I feel like that. That that's me, Thanks, guys.
(16:36):
I mean that's obviously something that a lot of people
can relate to. You kind of feel like you have everything.
And maybe those really specific goals work well when you're
around eighteen because you're you don't have to act on them.
I don't act them on them right away, dream and
if you do act on them, like Kroen said, it's
not I'm going to own my own business. It's like
I go to work. I work my minium wage job
(16:57):
in high school, and that's me with financial freedom. That
satisfies that craving, I guess, whereas once, yeah, the stakes
are much lower. It's kind of it's exponential, whereas a
few years later you're twenty one. World of possibilities. Yeah,
I think how my relationship with goal setting has changed
(17:17):
in the more recent years. Is that a lot of
my goals are more of these continuous goals versus end
game goals, because it in for my mind and the
way that my mind works. I am very future and
forward thinking, and if I tell myself that I need
something and want to do something, I get so one
track minded with it that it tends to lead me
(17:41):
down this like anxious path of having to get somewhere
as fast as I can and like on that track,
and then I'm pretty avoidant of other things around me.
And then obviously that is not good when you don't
get exactly there. And I think something that really showed
me that I actually like have matured in that and
done that well recently is I was looking for part
time internships and things to do with this next year
(18:03):
ahead of me because I have one year of college left,
but I actually only have one semester worth of classes
to do, so I have a much lower schedule. And
I was like, Okay, well, I maybe I want to
work for a startup in Boston and kind of fill
more of my time. And I was really excited about
this one opportunity. It was like sports marketing seemed really
up my alley, you know, had some social media aspects
and fitness and marketing, and I was one month, three
(18:26):
interviews deep in this company and they turned me down,
and which, yeah, sad, but honestly, I was so shocked
that I got that, and I was like, huh, okay,
well they must not be what I was supposed to
be doing. And like myself a couple of years ago,
having been rejected to something that I was, you know
(18:46):
a little bit emotionally involved in and like starting to
think forward about it, I would have been so much
more destroyed by that, whereas I was able to like
move on and forget about it than a day because
I have my podcast going for me, and I still
have school, and I know that the other opportunities are
going to come and open up. And so I think
that being able to have more of these continuous goals
(19:07):
of like I just want to feel successful, I want
to feel independent, I want to feel healthy, versus I
want to feel successful by getting this exact position at
this exact time, really keeps me moving forward because I
think that in later years, if I had gotten rejected
or something, then I might have just stopped installed right there,
and I wouldn't have kept moving forward. And so I
(19:28):
think specifically in your twenties when you're navigating these paths
and like, what am I going to do? If you
can set out to do things without the pressure of
them having to be endgame, then taking that path forward
is so much more exciting and you're able to learn
and evolve and grow along the way rather than you know,
seeing something as a hard stop. And I think that
(19:49):
kind of the really tangible, really specific, big goals that
are almost too far out of reach in the current moment,
because I will never tell that nothing is too far
out of reach, but in the current moment, something is
probably too far out of reach if you're setting a massive,
massive goal. The way that that becomes passive, I think,
(20:11):
just listening to Caroline talk, this is my concept on it.
This is what my brain's doing while I'm listening to her.
When you get those really really big goals, the reason
I know they don't work out for me, and I
know a lot of people probably have the same experience,
is you're almost doubting yourself. And self doubt is something
that we talked about a lot, or the inverse self confidence,
(20:33):
because we want self confidence, of course, don't really want
self doubt if it's debilitating but in the passive sense,
it self doubt is debilitating. And so when you set
these really really big goals, it's like you kind of
self sabotage. And I'm sure you've talked about this on
your show before too, but you kind of self sabotage,
and that default into the passive zone is, in my
(20:57):
mind one hundred percent that self sabotage because you're like,
kind of I'm not even gonna try. I'm just gonna,
in the back of my mind hope that this massive
goal that I think I want for myself worked out,
but I'm really not gonna put like tons of effort
towards it or like intentional effort. And that's not a
zone that we want.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
To be in because it feels like you have so
much time, right because it is such a big thing,
But I also think so.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Much space for excuses exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I also think that like with big goals that are
like numbers, for example, you talked about like one hundred
and fifty pounds squad or like I don't know, a
huge milestone, a marathon that's another one something like that,
it's like, Okay, once you hit that, you lose steam
because it's not sustainable because your goal is one point
in time. It is before you reach the goal, and
(21:43):
it is when you reach the goal, and the afterward
is you don't have anything for that. And I was
talking to my friend who did a marathon recently, so impressive,
and she was like, yeah, I don't want to run
anymore because that was so freaking exhausting. She was like,
that was awful, Like I'm I was working. She basically
recreated her whole lifestyle around this huge thing that she,
(22:05):
I think thought was going to bring her a lot
of other things. It was going to bring her confidence,
it was going to bring her control, it was going
to bring her empowerment. Yes, those things did happen, but
she wasn't thinking about how running was going to promote
those things as a lifestyle. She was thinking about how
she was going to get to this goal. And what
that meant was that once the goal had been obtained,
(22:26):
all of the habits, all of the processes, all of
the attitude adjustments that she'd had in that process were suddenly,
you know, no longer useful for her. And so I
think that that's like a really important part about when
we think about goals and you think about being active
in your life, not being a passive agent. Immediately, your
(22:47):
mind might go to, Okay, well, I need to set
like the biggest goal possible because that's going to give
me focus. But really, your time kind of ends when
that goal is reached and you're not thinking about how
you actually want to create a good life around that
thing and beyond that thing. If that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, that makes so much sense. I love that. Yeah,
because you kind of shorten your life. You stop thinking
about your life in terms of like I'm gonna live
till forever and me running is gonna make me healthy
and like get my muscles up and build my bone
strength and get my heart pumping, and that's going to
help me live forever, and like have so much time
(23:27):
to enjoy life and experience so many new things, like oh,
my marathons in six months, Like my life now only
exists six months out in my head. And then nothing
else is really important to you anymore, or nothing else
is at the forefront of your your brain. It's not
you know, career longevity, maintaining friendships super heavily, anything else
(23:49):
beyond just that marathon training example falls into the passive zone. Yeah,
you know, that's actually very interesting because I had never
thought about somebody having that experience. You know, you don't
see people talking about kind of the aftermath of achieving
great goals like that, but you do see it so
often in you know, business, where somebody it takes off
(24:12):
and is so successful and then all of a sudden
there's bankruptcy the next day, and it's like, oh my god,
how did that happen? And it's maybe because we're not
planning for longevity and sustainability and so not to say,
don't go out and set the big goals of the
marathon and things like that, but maybe make it a
longer journey and take the baby steps to get there,
or plan ahead for like, Okay, how do I want
(24:34):
to continue to do this after the fact instead of
making a kind of that end game. Maybe that taking
more action in your life is thinking ahead towards how
am I going to manage this afterwards and not fall
back into a passive state after it.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Because goals are important, Like that's the I feel absolutely obviously,
like we're sitting here being like, no, goals are super important.
They are so valuable. Like even last night I was
journling about it. I mean, like, this is what I
want out of the next six months of my life.
But the things that I wanted were not like specifics.
They weren't like the I feel like there's this thing
(25:10):
of like smart goals where they have to be like specific, measurable, actionable,
something are realistic and timely. Yeah, that's great, love that,
but and I get that there's like a lot of
research behind that. I really actually don't agree. Yeah, I
get that it's like a really nice idea, but I'm like, actually, no,
those are things that once you do, you tick them
(25:32):
off and you actually aren't invested in as a lifestyle change. Yes,
whereas when you have goals that are like personal sustainable
and like about attitudes and beliefs and lifestyle like, those
things are so much more valuable for actually changing your life.
And I was listening to this ted talk, which I love.
(25:53):
It's the Elizabeth Gilbert one on like success, and she
basically said that all her life she had been she's
an author, she'd been waiting for success, and she'd been
waiting for a book to be published and for a
book to become a best seller. And then she wrote
a pray love which everybody knows cultural phenomena. And afterwards
(26:15):
she was like, oh, hey, that's all I ever wanted.
I'm like at the top of the mountain. Now what?
And she had to actually really relearn to love the process.
And it's called learned industriousness, which I love. It's like
a psychology term that's kind of in opposition to learned helplessness,
where it's like, learned industriousness is about not being too
overly invested in what Obviously you care about the outcome,
(26:38):
but actually you care more about enjoying the process. It's
kind of like the age old question of like what's
better the destination or the journey? And this thing, this
this idea says no, the journey one hundred percent, because
how you meant to get to the destination if you
hate the journey? Right, Like, how are you ever going
to care about all that time where you're not going
to see results if you don't actually love the thing
(26:59):
that you're doing?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, talking about you know all the time that you
don't see results. I think with anything we want in
our life, it can seem daunting that so many of
these things that we might want to achieve are not
things that are going to come to us overnight. And
I think that's a huge reason we might be passive
in starting something, because we know that our effort tomorrow
(27:23):
is not going to be seen tomorrow. You know it's
going to take our effort tomorrow in the next day
and the weeks after before we really start seeing things.
And I think that that fear, or that not immediate
satisfaction is a huge reason why we might be passive
in things. And when it comes to anything great. You know,
it's so cliche to say consistency is key, but I
(27:46):
do think that it really is, because you know, it
could take ninety nine tries at something and then the
one hundredth one works, But because you showed up for
those hundred days and you did that, that one hundredth
one being a success makes up for everything else that
you've worked for. Says you know, those hundred days, those
hundred tries, whatever it is, those are going to go
by anyways. And you could have those go by being
(28:07):
passive and never trying, or you could have those go
by trying and learning and learning until it works, or
just being consistent over and over until your results compile
enough to really see it happen. I mean, taking podcasts
for example, yours and ours. I'm sure we both had
many episodes or even iterations of the podcast and the
(28:28):
content before we really felt like we had something like
oh that was an episode and a topic that I
was super proud of, or oh wow, that just reached
a lot of people that went viral. Like it doesn't
nothing that you do is going to be an immediate success.
And so being able to accept that and understand that,
(28:49):
like nothing worth having really is going to be like
an immediate success or give you that immediate gratification, I
think is a really big step in not being passive,
because that is something you have to accept in order
to step into the activity of whatever it is you
want to do. It is kind of a cool thing
when you think about how you perceive time, at least
(29:09):
for me, in terms of passive versus active or you know,
passive time versus a successful venture. Say something takes like
a month and you choose not to do it because
it's scary and it's going to take a lot of
effort and you don't have the energy or whatever you
don't want to commit to it. That month is going
to go by, and it's going to go by pretty quickly.
Compared to if you're putting the effort in, but then
(29:31):
after the month, you're going to look back and say,
oh my gosh, I just wasted this home it started
that thing, where would I've been right? And that one
month is going to feel like an eternity, whereas the opposite.
You start something at the beginning of that month and
it takes about a month and then it's in your
eyes deemed successful and you feel really good about it
and you're proud about it and things are going well.
(29:53):
That month may have been ruling. The month itself of
work may have felt like an eternity. But once you
get to the you know stage where you're feeling like
this is successful, this is feeling good, like I'm proud
of this, the month is gonna feel like it happened overnight,
like you're gonna forget about all of the immediate hard times,
like how many times have you been up until way
(30:15):
like past midnight, like you're fighting a deadline to get
an episode in, or like you're you're doing work. Everyone
has had times, whether it's school, whether it's work, whether
it's whatever, you're overworking yourself getting work done, and then
you submit the thing you're done with the thing, it
feels successful. You're like, I'm proud of myself. I did that.
That was Let's do it again. Like that looked good,
(30:35):
Like this feels good. Whereas the opposite, if you were
in the passive zone, sure, that's the easy choice in
terms of you know, effort exertion, but that's so frustrating
when you get to the end of it and you
realize I didn't do much.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's like a momentum thing, right, And it's like, I
think this comes back to the at the end of
the day. Is everyone This is such a cliche. Everyone
has twenty four hours in the day, right, passive person
will I think look at those hours and be like, Okay,
they're empty, and so I'll just fill them with whatever.
Like I'm just going, you know, I'm gonna do it
(31:09):
hour by hour. I'm gonna do my life week by week,
month by month, year by year. And you just end
up looking back and being like, Okay, but there was
all these opportunities for me to actually change something. There
were all these opportunities for me to make a small
change one day, a bigger change than next, and see
(31:31):
a completely different path myself. Whereas I think somebody who
is like actively choosing what they want for their life
sees time not a space, but as opportunity to be
like great, Like, this is what I want to do.
This is who I want to be. This is like
what I want to work on. This is like I
want to do better by my health. So like there
are all these hours in which I can go and exercise,
(31:52):
and all these hours in which I can like choose
to eat better foods, in which I can go to
the doctor and I can like take care of myself
and I can stretch, whereas a passive person is like, well,
this is empty space too. If that comes up, maybe
we'll do it. So I think it is about being like, yes,
it's not all about long term goals. It's not always
about overworking yourself. It's not always about using every single
(32:12):
hour to be the best version of yourself because eventually
you will burn out. It's about being like, this is
what I want for my life. Where does this fit
into my day? And where can I make space and
time for this, so that this isn't just whatever happens,
This is like a day that I have created, because
like how you choose to live your days is how
you live your life right at the end of the
(32:33):
like at the end of your life, at the end
of your month, at the end of the week, Like
all of that comes down to these small units and
these small decisions that we need to make. And it's
kind of like you're choosing the decision that you're going
to look back on and either a not remember or regret,
or you're choosing the decision that you're going to be like, oh,
really glad I did that, and I'm really proud of myself,
even if it was hard.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Sometimes it's even just like changing your narrative and how
you speak to yourself. I think there is huge power
in the shift from saying I want to be something
versus I am something, even if it's like a fake
it till you make it kind of thing. Your mindset
and your self belief drives everything, and I think that's
on our show, that's something that almost every topic we
(33:16):
can find a way to drill back to your belief
in yourself, your relationship with yourself, because it's the difference
between like, oh, I like I want to be healthier,
but that is putting it as like a future thing,
like oh, that's something that I have to I have
to start someday, I have to achieve, versus saying like, oh,
I'm healthy, I make healthy choices. Even just saying that
(33:37):
now you're like fifty percent of the way there, because
you've already gone over the hurdle of your mind just
by saying that now you can do it, like saying like,
I'm confident, I'm healthy, I'm a good friend, I'm hardworking. Like,
think about how much more powerful it is instead of saying, oh,
I need to stop procrastinating, and then you're telling yourself, oh,
that's a task I have to take on in the future,
(33:58):
is to teach myself how to stop procrastinating, And so
then you just stay in that same passive zone procrastinating, procrastinating,
versus being like, I'm hard working, I'm gonna get this
done and make myself proud. Like just that shift of
the narrative in the way that you say things is
enough to take the same activity and change it from
a passive thing to an active thing. So it kind
of comes back to how we started this episode, whereas like,
(34:19):
it doesn't mean I'm adding more into my life and
making it as busy as possible, but It's like, how
am I being present in my life and taking these
same twenty four hours, these same necessary tasks, this same
free time and just making it my own versus letting
it happen to me.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
It's such a I can't play game honestly. Yeah, get
as you said, it's mental more than it is material
in many ways.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jemmy, you said the word momentum earlier,
and that I think is really huge, because there's so
much to be said about the momentum of doing one
active thing in your life and how much that can
completely shift to your presence and change everything else you do.
I think for everyone listening who wants kind of that
first step forward of being more active, It's like, what's
(35:08):
one thing that you can do first thing in the
morning to make yourself feel more active? Maybe do you
roll out of bed and immediately look on your phone
and get sucked into everyone else's life and everyone else's world.
Maybe the first thing you can do is like put
your own literally, like put your own feet on the
ground and like drink a glass of water, or just
stand up and turn your own light on, like some
action that just makes you feel like you're doing something
(35:30):
in control, or maybe you have like an hour before
the day and you can take a shower, or you
can make yourself a good breakfast, you can get out
for a walk. I think if you can do one
thing in the beginning of the day that makes you
feel active, then the rest of your day you're gonna
feel so much more confident and you're gonna feel so
much more present in it that Like, I even think
(35:51):
about the difference between a day where because you know,
every day is a little bit different for me. Sometimes
I'm up and I'm Adam and i have a super
productive day. Sometimes I'm sleeping in and I'm feel kind
of lazy. If I'm having a day where I like
sleep in, I'm lazy in the morning, don't really get out,
then I feel like when I do get out, I'm
just kind of like trudging through my day checking the boxes.
Versus if I have a day where, like, you know,
(36:13):
the first thing I do is, you know, get some
fresh air outside or do something good for me. Then
suddenly I'm like, you know, I'm walking down the street
feeling like I'm literally running the city. Even if I'm
doing the exact same things that I'm doing in the
other day. If you can build a little bit of
momentum with taking control of one small aspect of your
life in the beginning, it really just gives you this
(36:34):
sense of authority over your life. Even if you have
boxes you have to check for work or for school
or for anything else. It just makes you feel like
you know you're doing it. You're not just getting through.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
It, And that's the thing you're doing it. This is you, right,
Like that's the thing that we keep coming back to.
And I feel like as we kind of like wrap
things up, like that's the center of all of this
is your choices, your time, your decisions, your values. That's like,
that's that's what it is at its core. It's about
(37:05):
not doing things for anybody else but yourself, Not doing
things for anybody else's expectations, not doing things from the
place of kind of your worst self or the self
that you don't really like, doing it from the best
version of you and your like ideal self. So I
(37:25):
want to say big thank you to both of you
for coming. I'm going to say back on the show.
This is the first episode people will be hearing, thank
you for joining me again and for kind of talking
through this. I feel like this is such like a
very liberating and like inspiring, motivating topic to cover. Where
can the listeners find you if they want to hear more.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Yeah, well, they can check out our show Girls with
Gals on Spotify, Apple, wherever you listen to podcasts. We
also have an Instagram page at Girls with Gals Pard,
but our personal accounts are going to be Caroline Kenneyan
and Katherine Kennee and that's both Instagram, TikTok. Thank you
so much for having us on again. There's been we
(38:07):
recorded back and forth a few times, and this every
single time has been great. So this is awesome and
we really appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, I love the way
that you approach your episodes and you always have so
much great tangible advice. But it's also very like comforting
and approachable for everyone who listens, and so I'm glad
(38:29):
that we were able to come on and share this
topic with you. I think it was a great conversation
from both ends.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm a big fan of it.
So I will leave all of the links in the
description of this episode so you can go and follow
along with what Girls with Goals are doing. It's an
amazing show. I personally really enjoy it and if you
like what we talked about today, you'll find so much
more of it there. So thank you so much for listening.
Make sure that you are following along on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
(38:56):
whatever you're listening, and if you enjoyed this episode, share
it with the friend or leave a five star review.
It really does help the show to go and reach
new people. As always, we will be back next week.
Until then, stay safe, be kind, and we'll talk soon
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
the podcast where we talk through some of the big
life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
mean for our psychology.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here.
Back for another episode as we, of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. A subject I'd like to
talk about a lot is agency and the fact that
I think in about eighty percent of instances in our lives,
(00:45):
we get to control our reality and what we're experiencing.
I think so much about how we operate and how
we function our daily lives is actually within our power.
But a lot of us choose to live quite passively,
and we let this thing happened to us, rather than
actively choosing who we are, our outlook, our experiences, our behaviors,
(01:07):
who we spend time with. We say it all the
time on the podcast, but I think sometimes the easiest
and most convenient choice is not always the best for you,
And this is especially important to recognize in our twenties,
when we are at such a formative juncture and in
the midst of really deciding what we want long term,
what we want with our careers, with our health, with
(01:28):
our finances. I don't think that we can actually afford
to be passive. It doesn't mean that we have to
be constantly kind of finding for the next big thing
and overworking ourselves. We don't always have to be focused
on achievement. But I think more so that we need
some kind of structure to how we think about our future,
but also about our present and what kind of life
we are creating for ourselves. And I thought who better
(01:50):
to bring on for this episode than the wonderful hosts
of Girls with Goals to have kind of a discussion
and informative conversation on how not to be passive when
it comes to creating a happy and fulfilling life. Sir
Carolyn and Catherine, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Hi, thank you so much for having us. I'm Caroline,
I mean Catherine. We are where twin sisters. We're based
in Boston in the US, and we host the show
Girls with Goals. We talk so much on our show
about health and wellness, but mostly in the sense of
how it fits into our lifestyles and ultimately building your
(02:27):
own most confident life. However that's going to look. And
you know, every topic we dive into is something that
we're actively navigating at the same time. And I think
figuring out how to have that right balance of control
over your lives while at the same time being kind
of trusting in the path and not trying to get
too overwhelmed with the control is something that we're always
working to figure out. So I think hopefully we'll be
(02:50):
able to come and bring some good advice on how
to stop being passive in your life and take more
control without it being too overwhelming of a feat today
On Yeah, I love the word control in a good
way is what we're what we're getting at here controls
and you're in the power of your life, which I
think is really important when we're talking about whether or
not you're living passively. So we love you know, like
(03:13):
Caron said, this is a time that we're navigating actively
ourselves and that's what we talk about. So you know,
we're working on trying not to be passive or being
aware of that and knowing how to be confident within that,
and you know, actively work towards moving away from passive
life and taking more control and feeling empowered in our
lives is what we talk about all the time. So
(03:35):
this is a really great episode. Thank you so much
for having.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Us absolutely well. I feel like that's something I really
admire about you guys. Firstly, you're in your twenties, which
I think is like obviously the psychology of your twenties, Like,
I like talking to people who also kind of get it.
But I really admire how you're both like quite intentional
in how you live, right. You really like prioritize the
good parts of life as much as you can, even
(03:59):
when it's difficult. You guys are full time students, you're
running your own businesses. When it comes to that, what
do you think it means to be intentional, especially when
we have like so many other things on our plate
that can make it really difficult to focus on bringing Like,
I feel like being intentional sometimes gets compared to putting
(04:20):
in more effort, right and having to give more energy
when you don't actually have it. But what does it
mean for you guys?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, it's definitely not just straight up putting in more energy.
And I think we've all been there where that is
our default because it's the simplest, seemingly simplest solution before
you actually you know, try out some solutions. It's kind
of our default, our go to just if things aren't
working out or they're not working out as you want them,
to just throw more effort in, like do more things
(04:47):
work harder? Not the answer all the time, because that
almost pushes you further into that, you know, passiveness. Anytime
I've felt like I'm in a state of passive myths passiveness,
First of all, I don't realize it until like a
month or two or even more down the line, and
I'm like, oh my god, I've been living on autopilot,
Like I couldn't even tell you what happened these past
four months. But having the you know, ability to acknowledge
(05:14):
that and pull yourselves pull yourself out of that is
a really intentional thing. And it's not to say that
you're never going to have times of feeling passive or
you know that you have to throw yourself an autopilot,
but when you do notice it, being able to, you know,
pull yourself out of it. And sometimes that means not
throwing more more gas on the fire, but taking a
step back and going back to those foundations and so
(05:36):
knowing that there are a bunch of different options and
that maybe not putting all your effort in and losing
all of your steam and absolutely burning out is the
best answer. Sometimes it's taking a step back and going
back to your you know, foundations, the things that you
absolutely have to do.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, I totally agree. I read this article actually like
today by The Atlantic called like the Status of being busy,
which is that like in this day and age, being
busy is seen as like as being successful, as being popular,
as being like a go getter, when actually busyness really
(06:13):
just demonstrates yes, obviously like a period of just having
a lot odd and chaos, but actually it represents an
inability to set personal boundaries in a way because you
don't and you haven't been intentional and putting time aside. Right.
I think you made a really good point. Like we
talk about not being passive, not being passive doesn't mean
(06:36):
being active, right, Like you would think that that's the opposite, right, Okay,
if I don't want to be passive, I better be
doing things all the time. But it's actually being intentional,
it's actually being like Okay, wait is this really I
think I really liked the example of you being like, okay,
feeling the need to spend every single night with friends,
feeling need to go out to go out to dinner.
(06:59):
That is the easiest thing, because saying yes is the
easiest thing, but saying no is the hard thing, and
it's sometimes the riving. So how do you think we
can shift our outlook and our behaviors to be more intentional?
What do you think like kind of being in the
passenger being in like the driver's state, not the passenger state,
really like mains in our twenties.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, Ironically, some of the times that I've felt most
passive in my life have also been times where I'm
most busy because I am filling my plate with all
of these things while I'm being avoidant to maybe more
of the personal goals and the personal things that are
actually going to fulfill me. Busyness does not always equal fulfillment,
And sometimes I think the hardest thing is to slow down,
(07:43):
be honest with yourself, spend time just with yourself and
like doing those slower things and figuring out kind of
what your next step is and deciding what step to
take forward, rather than being so busy that you can't
even make that choice. You're just always moving. Sometimes for
me that that busyness actually is the passiveness, because I'm
being avoidant to my own life, and so I think
(08:06):
the first thing that I would do if you find
yourself being passive is to try to figure out why
that is happening. Is it fear of not being able
to reach a goal that you have in your mind.
Is it a lack of self confidence to spend time
with yourself and to step up, because maybe you've never
been very comfortable just being alone with yourself and being
accepting of yourself and working on yourself. Or maybe it's
(08:27):
even just being kind of overwhelmed and unsure of which
direction to go, because especially in our twenties, when nobody
has their lives figured out at all, and we see
all of these people around us in our own lives
and then also perpetuated on the internet going in all
different directions all at once, it can be really overwhelming
to decide which direction we even want to go in,
(08:47):
and then how do we even take that first step
forward if there's one hundred options and we don't know
which one to do. So being able to take that
step back first rather than filling our lives with more busyness,
and see why am I being passive? Is it fear?
Is it self confidence? Is it that I'm overwhelmed? And
then what is that first step forward for myself that's
actually going to work, not just what everyone else is doing?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
And I think that comes down to values, right, That
is such a precious and personal thing for each of us.
But when we're really caught up in comparing ourselves, that's
a big one. Seeing what everyone else is doing and
feeling like we're coming up short. Your motivation is not
the same as theirs. You have no idea why they're
(09:28):
doing what they're doing, why it's important to them, their stamina,
their energy reserves, whether they're actually sitting back at the
end of the day and being like, Wow, nothing I
did today was intentional. This was all just like clutter
that I felt compelled to do. So I think taking
time to be like, Okay, I don't actually need to
know what I want exactly, I don't need a five
(09:51):
year plan. I don't need to have it all worked out.
I think having it all worked out is actually a
bad thing because you have no room for flexibility and
for surprise and for exac It's mainly being like, what
are the values that I want to guide my decision
making by. Is it that I want to be like
guided by creativity and I want to be exploring ways
to be creative? And that means that no, I can't
(10:13):
say yes to all my social plans because I do
need space for rest and space for my imagination. Is
it okay, I'm really motivated by growth, and I'm really
motivated by intelligence, or I'm really motivated by whatever it
is that is like, oh, I think independence. Maybe that's
like the value that drives your kind of financial goals
(10:35):
and how active you are and your financial goals. Right,
it's like, stop trying to pursue things from a place
of wanting to please others or wanting to do what
others are doing. That's what makes you passive. Do it
from a place of once again, when you're intentional about
your motivations, your inspiration, your mission, I think everything becomes
a lot easier. Have you guys kind of found that.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Exactly something that has always grounded me in my own
life because it can definitely be overwhelming for me to
think about, like where do I want to see myself
in five years? What do I want my exact career
to be, because for me, that's never been something that
has come naturally picking one path. But what really grounds
me and helps me be more stable and be more
(11:18):
active in my life regardless of that, is to think about, Okay,
I don't know exactly what the tangible thing is that
I need. I don't need to know exactly the tangible
path and that career and whatever the relationship in the timeline.
I don't need to know that. But what really matters
to me is to know, like what my values are
that are always going to be there, and what the
feeling that I want in life is. Because your twenties,
(11:42):
and I say this as someone who's just basically started
my twenties, I'm only twenty one, but I think it's
such a good time to experiment because nobody knows exactly
where they're going. And like you said, I don't think
you should. I think that's kind of a bad thing
because you're gonna put yourself on a path and you're
not going to let yourself change your mind. You're not
going to keep yourself open to other opportunities that might
(12:02):
come up. And so when I try to focus on
the feeling that I want out of my life instead
of those tangible things, I can really keep myself open
to opportunities that come up and all of these things
that might bring those feelings for me. So, for example,
if we're talking about that feeling of independence and freedom,
you can find different ways to get that out of
(12:23):
your life on big levels and on little levels throughout
your day. So maybe that financial independence or just that
feeling of freedom in general. On the grandest scheme you
can think of is owning your own business and working
for yourself. But maybe that's not a tangible, reachable thing
for you in this moment, but you still want to
have that feeling. So maybe a lower level of that
is doing some traveling or maybe reading books and just
(12:46):
educating yourself on things that you're interested in and taking
that sense of agency and independence in your life. And
maybe even on a day to day level, it's just
doing activities by yourself. So when you know what those
values are and what those felseelings are, I think that
it helps you to be active in your life from
day one, because it doesn't need to be I'm jumping
right to the finish line right now, but there are
(13:09):
things that I can find today, this week, this month
that still give me that feeling, and things can really
snowball from there. Sometimes it's kind of silly. Our show
name is Girls with Goals, But in the recent I mean,
we've been doing this for almost three years, and the
reason i'd say two years or answer to the question
like what are your goals or what do you want
to do with your life? Are healing, we have an
(13:29):
answer like we just want to chase improvement and chase
feeling good, and that is I don't think it's the
answer that we would have said three years ago when
we started this show. I probably would have given you
a list of like five thanks that I want to accomplish,
and you know, maybe I did accomplish those five things.
But doesn't stop when you accomplish them. And life also
doesn't stop if you don't accomplish your goals or if
(13:51):
you have some failures along the way. And so I
think a massive, massive point that we've learned in the
past couple of years that this has been something that
we've you know, had to art take you over and
over again, the concept of goals and in our frame
of mind, what are our goals or that we don't
have any or at least not tangible ones necessarily, but
we do have a direction. We have a kind of
(14:13):
quality that we expect of ourselves. And I think that
is a really big point that's taken us. I mean,
speaking for myself, but taking me at least into a
more you know, controlled and intentional and like really self
aware journey into improvement and whatever that may be literally
(14:34):
every aspect of life. So I can't tell you I
go to the gym every day. I'm not gonna sit
here and tell you I have a gym goal because
I couldn't tell you that. I don't want to style
right like you do a continuous thing exactly. And I
mean three years ago, I was like, I want to
hit one hundred and fifty pounds squat. I don't know
(14:54):
who my squad weigh is, right, and I couldn't tell
you how much I squat. Right now, I would go
to the gym because I want to continue showing up
myself and I want to feel strong and I want
to be healthy, and like that's why I do it.
And of course things come in and out. You have
different mini goals in your life, but and it's really
fun to set many goals along the way, but that's
not like the end all, be all goal. And sometimes
(15:16):
when you do set those really tangible and really specific goals,
that's when you feel the passive if passiveness come in,
because that's all you're working towards, your kind of tunnel
vision towards that, and everything else falls behind or isn't
front of mind. You're not really putting intentional effort towards it,
and then you get into this rut where things feel
so much like clutter. I'd love that word that you
(15:38):
said earlier, that even the goal you're working towards feels
a little bit like clutter. And then you're gonna get
to a point really what am I even doing? And
I mean at that point you're in the passive era
and you're I guess snapping out of it. But that's
how you kind of in my mind, that's in my experience,
how I've become passive is almost by getting too specific
on what I want in an overwhelming sense.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's actually so interesting because one of my questions was
was going to be how is your relationship to your
goals changed as you get older?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Oh? Wow?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And I was like, that's like such a good answer.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, well, dely is like a maturity thing too. I mean,
I know you're so fan, I know Karen's heir so fan,
but the like please please yell at me if I
get the lyrics wrong. But eighteen and nothing else? How
do you know everything at eighteen and nothing at twenty one? Oh? Yeah,
that was right. I feel like that. That that's me, Thanks, guys.
(16:36):
I mean that's obviously something that a lot of people
can relate to. You kind of feel like you have everything.
And maybe those really specific goals work well when you're
around eighteen because you're you don't have to act on them.
I don't act them on them right away, dream and
if you do act on them, like Kroen said, it's
not I'm going to own my own business. It's like
I go to work. I work my minium wage job
(16:57):
in high school, and that's me with financial freedom. That
satisfies that craving, I guess, whereas once, yeah, the stakes
are much lower. It's kind of it's exponential, whereas a
few years later you're twenty one. World of possibilities. Yeah,
I think how my relationship with goal setting has changed
(17:17):
in the more recent years. Is that a lot of
my goals are more of these continuous goals versus end
game goals, because it in for my mind and the
way that my mind works. I am very future and
forward thinking, and if I tell myself that I need
something and want to do something, I get so one
track minded with it that it tends to lead me
(17:41):
down this like anxious path of having to get somewhere
as fast as I can and like on that track,
and then I'm pretty avoidant of other things around me.
And then obviously that is not good when you don't
get exactly there. And I think something that really showed
me that I actually like have matured in that and
done that well recently is I was looking for part
time internships and things to do with this next year
(18:03):
ahead of me because I have one year of college left,
but I actually only have one semester worth of classes
to do, so I have a much lower schedule. And
I was like, Okay, well, I maybe I want to
work for a startup in Boston and kind of fill
more of my time. And I was really excited about
this one opportunity. It was like sports marketing seemed really
up my alley, you know, had some social media aspects
and fitness and marketing, and I was one month, three
(18:26):
interviews deep in this company and they turned me down,
and which, yeah, sad, but honestly, I was so shocked
that I got that, and I was like, huh, okay,
well they must not be what I was supposed to
be doing. And like myself a couple of years ago,
having been rejected to something that I was, you know
(18:46):
a little bit emotionally involved in and like starting to
think forward about it, I would have been so much
more destroyed by that, whereas I was able to like
move on and forget about it than a day because
I have my podcast going for me, and I still
have school, and I know that the other opportunities are
going to come and open up. And so I think
that being able to have more of these continuous goals
(19:07):
of like I just want to feel successful, I want
to feel independent, I want to feel healthy, versus I
want to feel successful by getting this exact position at
this exact time, really keeps me moving forward because I
think that in later years, if I had gotten rejected
or something, then I might have just stopped installed right there,
and I wouldn't have kept moving forward. And so I
(19:28):
think specifically in your twenties when you're navigating these paths
and like, what am I going to do? If you
can set out to do things without the pressure of
them having to be endgame, then taking that path forward
is so much more exciting and you're able to learn
and evolve and grow along the way rather than you know,
seeing something as a hard stop. And I think that
(19:49):
kind of the really tangible, really specific, big goals that
are almost too far out of reach in the current moment,
because I will never tell that nothing is too far
out of reach, but in the current moment, something is
probably too far out of reach if you're setting a massive,
massive goal. The way that that becomes passive, I think,
(20:11):
just listening to Caroline talk, this is my concept on it.
This is what my brain's doing while I'm listening to her.
When you get those really really big goals, the reason
I know they don't work out for me, and I
know a lot of people probably have the same experience,
is you're almost doubting yourself. And self doubt is something
that we talked about a lot, or the inverse self confidence,
(20:33):
because we want self confidence, of course, don't really want
self doubt if it's debilitating but in the passive sense,
it self doubt is debilitating. And so when you set
these really really big goals, it's like you kind of
self sabotage. And I'm sure you've talked about this on
your show before too, but you kind of self sabotage,
and that default into the passive zone is, in my
(20:57):
mind one hundred percent that self sabotage because you're like,
kind of I'm not even gonna try. I'm just gonna,
in the back of my mind hope that this massive
goal that I think I want for myself worked out,
but I'm really not gonna put like tons of effort
towards it or like intentional effort. And that's not a
zone that we want.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
To be in because it feels like you have so
much time, right because it is such a big thing,
But I also think so.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Much space for excuses exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I also think that like with big goals that are
like numbers, for example, you talked about like one hundred
and fifty pounds squad or like I don't know, a
huge milestone, a marathon that's another one something like that,
it's like, Okay, once you hit that, you lose steam
because it's not sustainable because your goal is one point
in time. It is before you reach the goal, and
(21:43):
it is when you reach the goal, and the afterward
is you don't have anything for that. And I was
talking to my friend who did a marathon recently, so impressive,
and she was like, yeah, I don't want to run
anymore because that was so freaking exhausting. She was like,
that was awful, Like I'm I was working. She basically
recreated her whole lifestyle around this huge thing that she,
(22:05):
I think thought was going to bring her a lot
of other things. It was going to bring her confidence,
it was going to bring her control, it was going
to bring her empowerment. Yes, those things did happen, but
she wasn't thinking about how running was going to promote
those things as a lifestyle. She was thinking about how
she was going to get to this goal. And what
that meant was that once the goal had been obtained,
(22:26):
all of the habits, all of the processes, all of
the attitude adjustments that she'd had in that process were suddenly,
you know, no longer useful for her. And so I
think that that's like a really important part about when
we think about goals and you think about being active
in your life, not being a passive agent. Immediately, your
(22:47):
mind might go to, Okay, well, I need to set
like the biggest goal possible because that's going to give
me focus. But really, your time kind of ends when
that goal is reached and you're not thinking about how
you actually want to create a good life around that
thing and beyond that thing. If that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, that makes so much sense. I love that. Yeah,
because you kind of shorten your life. You stop thinking
about your life in terms of like I'm gonna live
till forever and me running is gonna make me healthy
and like get my muscles up and build my bone
strength and get my heart pumping, and that's going to
help me live forever, and like have so much time
(23:27):
to enjoy life and experience so many new things, like oh,
my marathons in six months, Like my life now only
exists six months out in my head. And then nothing
else is really important to you anymore, or nothing else
is at the forefront of your your brain. It's not
you know, career longevity, maintaining friendships super heavily, anything else
(23:49):
beyond just that marathon training example falls into the passive zone. Yeah,
you know, that's actually very interesting because I had never
thought about somebody having that experience. You know, you don't
see people talking about kind of the aftermath of achieving
great goals like that, but you do see it so
often in you know, business, where somebody it takes off
(24:12):
and is so successful and then all of a sudden
there's bankruptcy the next day, and it's like, oh my god,
how did that happen? And it's maybe because we're not
planning for longevity and sustainability and so not to say,
don't go out and set the big goals of the
marathon and things like that, but maybe make it a
longer journey and take the baby steps to get there,
or plan ahead for like, Okay, how do I want
(24:34):
to continue to do this after the fact instead of
making a kind of that end game. Maybe that taking
more action in your life is thinking ahead towards how
am I going to manage this afterwards and not fall
back into a passive state after it.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Because goals are important, Like that's the I feel absolutely obviously,
like we're sitting here being like, no, goals are super important.
They are so valuable. Like even last night I was
journling about it. I mean, like, this is what I
want out of the next six months of my life.
But the things that I wanted were not like specifics.
They weren't like the I feel like there's this thing
(25:10):
of like smart goals where they have to be like specific, measurable, actionable,
something are realistic and timely. Yeah, that's great, love that,
but and I get that there's like a lot of
research behind that. I really actually don't agree. Yeah, I
get that it's like a really nice idea, but I'm like, actually, no,
those are things that once you do, you tick them
(25:32):
off and you actually aren't invested in as a lifestyle change. Yes,
whereas when you have goals that are like personal sustainable
and like about attitudes and beliefs and lifestyle like, those
things are so much more valuable for actually changing your life.
And I was listening to this ted talk, which I love.
(25:53):
It's the Elizabeth Gilbert one on like success, and she
basically said that all her life she had been she's
an author, she'd been waiting for success, and she'd been
waiting for a book to be published and for a
book to become a best seller. And then she wrote
a pray love which everybody knows cultural phenomena. And afterwards
(26:15):
she was like, oh, hey, that's all I ever wanted.
I'm like at the top of the mountain. Now what?
And she had to actually really relearn to love the process.
And it's called learned industriousness, which I love. It's like
a psychology term that's kind of in opposition to learned helplessness,
where it's like, learned industriousness is about not being too
overly invested in what Obviously you care about the outcome,
(26:38):
but actually you care more about enjoying the process. It's
kind of like the age old question of like what's
better the destination or the journey? And this thing, this
this idea says no, the journey one hundred percent, because
how you meant to get to the destination if you
hate the journey? Right, Like, how are you ever going
to care about all that time where you're not going
to see results if you don't actually love the thing
(26:59):
that you're doing?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, talking about you know all the time that you
don't see results. I think with anything we want in
our life, it can seem daunting that so many of
these things that we might want to achieve are not
things that are going to come to us overnight. And
I think that's a huge reason we might be passive
in starting something, because we know that our effort tomorrow
(27:23):
is not going to be seen tomorrow. You know it's
going to take our effort tomorrow in the next day
and the weeks after before we really start seeing things.
And I think that that fear, or that not immediate
satisfaction is a huge reason why we might be passive
in things. And when it comes to anything great. You know,
it's so cliche to say consistency is key, but I
(27:46):
do think that it really is, because you know, it
could take ninety nine tries at something and then the
one hundredth one works, But because you showed up for
those hundred days and you did that, that one hundredth
one being a success makes up for everything else that
you've worked for. Says you know, those hundred days, those
hundred tries, whatever it is, those are going to go
by anyways. And you could have those go by being
(28:07):
passive and never trying, or you could have those go
by trying and learning and learning until it works, or
just being consistent over and over until your results compile
enough to really see it happen. I mean, taking podcasts
for example, yours and ours. I'm sure we both had
many episodes or even iterations of the podcast and the
(28:28):
content before we really felt like we had something like
oh that was an episode and a topic that I
was super proud of, or oh wow, that just reached
a lot of people that went viral. Like it doesn't
nothing that you do is going to be an immediate success.
And so being able to accept that and understand that,
(28:49):
like nothing worth having really is going to be like
an immediate success or give you that immediate gratification, I
think is a really big step in not being passive,
because that is something you have to accept in order
to step into the activity of whatever it is you
want to do. It is kind of a cool thing
when you think about how you perceive time, at least
(29:09):
for me, in terms of passive versus active or you know,
passive time versus a successful venture. Say something takes like
a month and you choose not to do it because
it's scary and it's going to take a lot of
effort and you don't have the energy or whatever you
don't want to commit to it. That month is going
to go by, and it's going to go by pretty quickly.
Compared to if you're putting the effort in, but then
(29:31):
after the month, you're going to look back and say,
oh my gosh, I just wasted this home it started
that thing, where would I've been right? And that one
month is going to feel like an eternity, whereas the opposite.
You start something at the beginning of that month and
it takes about a month and then it's in your
eyes deemed successful and you feel really good about it
and you're proud about it and things are going well.
(29:53):
That month may have been ruling. The month itself of
work may have felt like an eternity. But once you
get to the you know stage where you're feeling like
this is successful, this is feeling good, like I'm proud
of this, the month is gonna feel like it happened overnight,
like you're gonna forget about all of the immediate hard times,
like how many times have you been up until way
(30:15):
like past midnight, like you're fighting a deadline to get
an episode in, or like you're you're doing work. Everyone
has had times, whether it's school, whether it's work, whether
it's whatever, you're overworking yourself getting work done, and then
you submit the thing you're done with the thing, it
feels successful. You're like, I'm proud of myself. I did that.
That was Let's do it again. Like that looked good,
(30:35):
Like this feels good. Whereas the opposite, if you were
in the passive zone, sure, that's the easy choice in
terms of you know, effort exertion, but that's so frustrating
when you get to the end of it and you
realize I didn't do much.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's like a momentum thing, right, And it's like, I
think this comes back to the at the end of
the day. Is everyone This is such a cliche. Everyone
has twenty four hours in the day, right, passive person
will I think look at those hours and be like, Okay,
they're empty, and so I'll just fill them with whatever.
Like I'm just going, you know, I'm gonna do it
(31:09):
hour by hour. I'm gonna do my life week by week,
month by month, year by year. And you just end
up looking back and being like, Okay, but there was
all these opportunities for me to actually change something. There
were all these opportunities for me to make a small
change one day, a bigger change than next, and see
(31:31):
a completely different path myself. Whereas I think somebody who
is like actively choosing what they want for their life
sees time not a space, but as opportunity to be
like great, Like, this is what I want to do.
This is who I want to be. This is like
what I want to work on. This is like I
want to do better by my health. So like there
are all these hours in which I can go and exercise,
(31:52):
and all these hours in which I can like choose
to eat better foods, in which I can go to
the doctor and I can like take care of myself
and I can stretch, whereas a passive person is like, well,
this is empty space too. If that comes up, maybe
we'll do it. So I think it is about being like, yes,
it's not all about long term goals. It's not always
about overworking yourself. It's not always about using every single
(32:12):
hour to be the best version of yourself because eventually
you will burn out. It's about being like, this is
what I want for my life. Where does this fit
into my day? And where can I make space and
time for this, so that this isn't just whatever happens,
This is like a day that I have created, because
like how you choose to live your days is how
you live your life right at the end of the
(32:33):
like at the end of your life, at the end
of your month, at the end of the week, Like
all of that comes down to these small units and
these small decisions that we need to make. And it's
kind of like you're choosing the decision that you're going
to look back on and either a not remember or regret,
or you're choosing the decision that you're going to be like, oh,
really glad I did that, and I'm really proud of myself,
even if it was hard.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Sometimes it's even just like changing your narrative and how
you speak to yourself. I think there is huge power
in the shift from saying I want to be something
versus I am something, even if it's like a fake
it till you make it kind of thing. Your mindset
and your self belief drives everything, and I think that's
on our show, that's something that almost every topic we
(33:16):
can find a way to drill back to your belief
in yourself, your relationship with yourself, because it's the difference
between like, oh, I like I want to be healthier,
but that is putting it as like a future thing,
like oh, that's something that I have to I have
to start someday, I have to achieve, versus saying like, oh,
I'm healthy, I make healthy choices. Even just saying that
(33:37):
now you're like fifty percent of the way there, because
you've already gone over the hurdle of your mind just
by saying that now you can do it, like saying like,
I'm confident, I'm healthy, I'm a good friend, I'm hardworking. Like,
think about how much more powerful it is instead of saying, oh,
I need to stop procrastinating, and then you're telling yourself, oh,
that's a task I have to take on in the future,
(33:58):
is to teach myself how to stop procrastinating, And so
then you just stay in that same passive zone procrastinating, procrastinating,
versus being like, I'm hard working, I'm gonna get this
done and make myself proud. Like just that shift of
the narrative in the way that you say things is
enough to take the same activity and change it from
a passive thing to an active thing. So it kind
of comes back to how we started this episode, whereas like,
(34:19):
it doesn't mean I'm adding more into my life and
making it as busy as possible, but It's like, how
am I being present in my life and taking these
same twenty four hours, these same necessary tasks, this same
free time and just making it my own versus letting
it happen to me.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
It's such a I can't play game honestly. Yeah, get
as you said, it's mental more than it is material
in many ways.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jemmy, you said the word momentum earlier,
and that I think is really huge, because there's so
much to be said about the momentum of doing one
active thing in your life and how much that can
completely shift to your presence and change everything else you do.
I think for everyone listening who wants kind of that
first step forward of being more active, It's like, what's
(35:08):
one thing that you can do first thing in the
morning to make yourself feel more active? Maybe do you
roll out of bed and immediately look on your phone
and get sucked into everyone else's life and everyone else's world.
Maybe the first thing you can do is like put
your own literally, like put your own feet on the
ground and like drink a glass of water, or just
stand up and turn your own light on, like some
action that just makes you feel like you're doing something
(35:30):
in control, or maybe you have like an hour before
the day and you can take a shower, or you
can make yourself a good breakfast, you can get out
for a walk. I think if you can do one
thing in the beginning of the day that makes you
feel active, then the rest of your day you're gonna
feel so much more confident and you're gonna feel so
much more present in it that Like, I even think
(35:51):
about the difference between a day where because you know,
every day is a little bit different for me. Sometimes
I'm up and I'm Adam and i have a super
productive day. Sometimes I'm sleeping in and I'm feel kind
of lazy. If I'm having a day where I like
sleep in, I'm lazy in the morning, don't really get out,
then I feel like when I do get out, I'm
just kind of like trudging through my day checking the boxes.
Versus if I have a day where, like, you know,
(36:13):
the first thing I do is, you know, get some
fresh air outside or do something good for me. Then
suddenly I'm like, you know, I'm walking down the street
feeling like I'm literally running the city. Even if I'm
doing the exact same things that I'm doing in the
other day. If you can build a little bit of
momentum with taking control of one small aspect of your
life in the beginning, it really just gives you this
(36:34):
sense of authority over your life. Even if you have
boxes you have to check for work or for school
or for anything else. It just makes you feel like
you know you're doing it. You're not just getting through.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
It, And that's the thing you're doing it. This is you, right,
Like that's the thing that we keep coming back to.
And I feel like as we kind of like wrap
things up, like that's the center of all of this
is your choices, your time, your decisions, your values. That's like,
that's that's what it is at its core. It's about
(37:05):
not doing things for anybody else but yourself, Not doing
things for anybody else's expectations, not doing things from the
place of kind of your worst self or the self
that you don't really like, doing it from the best
version of you and your like ideal self. So I
(37:25):
want to say big thank you to both of you
for coming. I'm going to say back on the show.
This is the first episode people will be hearing, thank
you for joining me again and for kind of talking
through this. I feel like this is such like a
very liberating and like inspiring, motivating topic to cover. Where
can the listeners find you if they want to hear more.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Yeah, well, they can check out our show Girls with
Gals on Spotify, Apple, wherever you listen to podcasts. We
also have an Instagram page at Girls with Gals Pard,
but our personal accounts are going to be Caroline Kenneyan
and Katherine Kennee and that's both Instagram, TikTok. Thank you
so much for having us on again. There's been we
(38:07):
recorded back and forth a few times, and this every
single time has been great. So this is awesome and
we really appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, I love the way
that you approach your episodes and you always have so
much great tangible advice. But it's also very like comforting
and approachable for everyone who listens, and so I'm glad
(38:29):
that we were able to come on and share this
topic with you. I think it was a great conversation
from both ends.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm a big fan of it.
So I will leave all of the links in the
description of this episode so you can go and follow
along with what Girls with Goals are doing. It's an
amazing show. I personally really enjoy it and if you
like what we talked about today, you'll find so much
more of it there. So thank you so much for listening.
Make sure that you are following along on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
(38:56):
whatever you're listening, and if you enjoyed this episode, share
it with the friend or leave a five star review.
It really does help the show to go and reach
new people. As always, we will be back next week.
Until then, stay safe, be kind, and we'll talk soon
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