Are All Comedians Narcissists? W/ Krystyna Hutchinson

This week Scott is joined by standup comedian and co-host of the critically acclaimed "Guys We F**ed: The Anti Slut Shaming Podcast", Krystyna Hutchinson. Scott and Krystyna discuss the psychology of standup comedy, psychological theory about relationships, and what to do when you find out your father isn't actually your father.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
When anything potentially terrible happens to a comedian, we're like,
how are we gonna make this funny? So I thought
it was a joke. There was like, there's no way,
my dad's not my dad, So I'm going to find
out what's up. But as a joke, I filmed it
and I was like, I'm about to find out my
family's on my family.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
In this week's episode of The Psychology Podcast, I had
a really interesting chat with Christina Hutchinson. Christina is an
internationally touring stand up comedian, actress, and writer based in
New York City. Christina and her comedy partner Karin Fisher,
co hosts the critically acclaimed Guys We Fucked, the anti
slut shaming podcast, in addition to co writing the book Fucked,

(00:39):
Being sexually explorative and self confident in a world That's screwed.
This was a really enjoyable chat with a really interesting human.
As you all know, I'm a big fan of stand
up comedy, and Christina has a huge interest in the
field of psychology and is quite familiar with psychological theory
on relationships. In this episode, we discussed her tumultuous childhood,
her own struggles with mental health and how she coped
with a recent revelation she had about her life. We laughed,

(01:02):
we cried. Without further ado, I bring you Christina Hutchinson. Hey, everyone,
welcome to the Psychology Podcast. There is going to be
a new era where I wear this jacket and I
bring more of my whole self to the table and
we have even more interesting and stimulating and maybe even
a little edgy conversations that are relevant to everything going

(01:23):
on in the world right now. But to kick us off,
we have Christina Hutchinson.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Honored to be here as part of your pivot.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yes, we're so glad to have you here. Yeah, you
are many things, so right, I mean I could just
start saying things like, you're a comedian, You're a spiritual seeker.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Oh right, just as well of curiosity.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
You're a curiosity seeker. You're an adventure You're you host,
you co host a podcast I do guys, we fucked
or we we fucked? And then there's a subtitle to
it as well, right, like the anti slut shaming podcast?
Is that the official subtitle of it?

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:06):
It is. Okay, Well let me ask you why do
you start that podcast? Uh?

Speaker 1 (02:10):
So, my comedy partner got dumped by someone at the
time she thought was the love of her life in
a Panera bread and that got her spinning emotionally and mentally,
and in that spiral, she said to me one day,
She's like, we should just do a podcast where reinterview
every guy we've ever fucked, and she's called guys we fucked.
I'm like, that's amazing, Yesait.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Holy right there, so there's already an assumption that you'll
have enough episodes to do that.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
So right, so you know our numbers are not that hot. Okay, okay, honestly,
Uh yeah. We started branching out because we were like,
you know, this is a very vulnerable type of conversation,
a conversation we probably wouldn't have had if we didn't
have a podcast about it. But when we started, there
was no video. So the people that weren't in the

(02:58):
entertainment industry and had no reason to kind of promote
their vulnerability, they were willing to do it because they
could go under a fake name. But now with the video,
it's all about video now, so it's a little a
little more vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah. So you started that and then you you were
in you liked that idea.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
I loved it.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, you love the idea, and it's done really well. Congratulations,
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
I'm very proud of it.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Why do you think it has done so well? What
do you think it? What nerve does it strike?

Speaker 1 (03:25):
The timing of it was, I don't. It was a
fly on the wall conversation about two women in their
twenties navigating their sex life and their self esteem. You know,
the directly corresponds with your sexual and romantic endeavors, and
so we just talked as if we were the only
ones in the room, and I think we didn't. I

(03:46):
think when you do something groundbreaking, you never set out
to be groundbreaking. You just want to be honest. And
so that was the mentality that we had with it,
and it struck a chord immediately and people. The cool
thing was people started writing us and asking us quite
and then they started sharing things, really intense situations that
have happened in their life, a lot of them being
traumatic that they kind of added this caveat of I've

(04:09):
never told anybody these things, and we're like, wow, we're
really hitting on something like sharing your life makes people
introspective and they want to share their life with you,
which is a big honor.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
It's a big honor. And do you feel like in
a lot of ways your show has empowered women? Oh? Yeah, yeah,
in sex, sexually, you.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Know, sexually, and with self esteem. My comedy partner is
pretty much the only person I've ever met that has
one hundred percent self esteem. She just was nurtured in
a very beautiful way by her parents. Met anyone like that,
I haven't either, And so the irony is I had
a very traumatic childhood. She did not. Her childhood was
beautiful and her individuality was really encouraged by her parents.

(04:48):
And so as we got older and are in the
world now we are in the public eye, she was
more traumatized by other people's behavior because she grew up
in this beautiful surrounded by like love and understanding. And
I'm like, oh, I already knew the world was fucked up,
So I'm ready to go.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
You already knew the world was sucked up. You weren't
at a very young age, right, very young age. Yeah,
And you know in psychology, and you're very interested in psychology.
Oh my gosh, I almost feel like they need to
justify why you're here on this podcast, But like, you
are an extremely interesting case study as well as in
a highly creative person, and you're a really interested in psychology,
so I knew we would have a million things to
geek out. Oh yeah, yeah. So in psychology there's this

(05:29):
theory that our early childhood is like a weather forecast.
So what if there's a lot of unpredictability and harshness
in an environment, our brain kind of wires in a
way where that's what we expect forevermore for the rest
of our life, and that could be very hard to unlearn.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
The we projected onto everybody in life were like, what's
your problem? And you're like, well, what is my problem?

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Shit? Because that's what your Your brain's a prediction machine
and so very young. Do you feel like, personally young
in early in your life your brain kind of started
to predict something about the world.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Oh my gosh, yeah. I My mother was mentally ill
and we never knew which mom we were going to get.
My dad had a pretty bad temper and also too
spanking fox a kid up like being hit by a parent.
It was so accepted when I was a kid, So
my parents were certainly not the only ones. Every kid

(06:20):
in my neighborhood got spanked by their parents. But as
I got older, I'm like, that's messed up to be. Like,
you're the trauma therapist that I worked with for a
long time. She goes, when you're in when you're a
little kid, your parents are one hundred feet tall. They're
like God to you. And so when that type of
person who holds that spot in your life strikes you physically,

(06:40):
it's so confusing, even though it was like an accepted
form of discipline at the time. So there's so much
that you could one could do to mess up their kids.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, true, it's true. But so what else in your
childhood that you feel comfortable talking about? Oh yeah, makes
you who you are today, I'll talk about all of that.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
I The way I summarize my relationship with my mother
is really I don't talk to either of my parents.
I went no contact, which is really I think people
go one way or another when they have a messed
up childhood. They either know it's messed up, or they
work really hard at convincing themselves that everything's great and
if something happens that upsets you, it's my fault. You

(07:21):
internalize it, right, And so I internalized it, and I
didn't realize things were awry until a couple of years ago.
It was really recent and my world crumbled. For about
a year and a half. I would wake up scream crying.
I was just so very suicidal. But how I describe
my childhood, my mom used, especially my teen years, suicide

(07:44):
is a manipulation tactic, and I didn't know it was manipulation.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
It's very common among people's borderline personalities.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
I do think when I started learning about borderline, I
was like, that's what that is.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's a very common tactic used.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Oh yes, yeah, And my whole family functioned my mom's mood.
And so I remember, like my brother. I have an
older brother who I love so much. He's like my
war veteran buddy, you know, and uh, you didn't, No,
I love him. He's thank god I have him as
my brother. But I remember all of his girlfriends throughout

(08:18):
the years were all they were always like, what's up
with you guys?

Speaker 2 (08:21):
On your mom.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
I'm like, don't talk about my mom that way, but
I would defend her because I thought she was the best,
my best friend and all this stuff. And so now
I'm at a place that was really difficult to get
to where I love her and I want the best
for her. I want her to be so happy. I'm
so glad she was my mother because it maybe the
person I am, but my inner peace would be compromise

(08:42):
if she was in my life.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, and there's another reason why you kind of stopped
talking to them, because you were a sperm you found
you found a surprise me was that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
So my mom was adopted when she was about three,
and her like her, her biological mother, was so much
more mentally than she was, which is usually how it goes.
And she got adopted by a lovely family. But we
never knew much about our biological side. We knew we
had some things from the social paperwork she had from
her adoption. But I got our twenty three MEEKID for

(09:13):
Christmas one year because I was like, we don't know
anything about your DNA, so it wosed to be really exciting.
She didn't want to do it, so I was like,
that's weird. So I took the kit and did it.
I got all these results. I found out I'm fifty
one percent Oshkenazi Jewish. I was like, oh that's cool.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, that's greater than a chance.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, my dad was a Jewish. I was like, oh, mom,
were Jewish, and she goes, oh, okay. I'm like that's
a weird reaction. And I started getting messages from women
that were like, oh, we're half siblings. Do you know
your dad?

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Because I did the I clicked the option where if
we do you want a DNA relative to be able
to contact you? And I said sure because my mom
had simply.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Get like tenth cousins messaging me in there. Yeah, asked
hate me up for money.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
I'm like, we're not that related and I.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Don't know you that well. But and then I called her, yeah,
and I've taped it because when anything potentially terrible happens
to a comedian, we're like, how are we gonna make
this funny? So I thought it was a joke. There
was like, there's no way my dad's not my dad.
So I'm going to find out what's up. But as
a joke, I filmed it and I was like, I'm
about to find out my family's not my family. And
then I asked her. I told her about the messages,

(10:20):
and I go, is dad my biological dad? Obviously he's
my real dad because he raised me. But she goes.
She was hesitant, and I'll go, what go, I'm not
a sperm notor baby am I? She goes, and I
the thing. You know, I'm still not mad about that part.
I think it's very disrespectful that they didn't tell me.

(10:42):
I'm mad about all the other stuff honestly that I'm like,
I feel like you guys went through great lengths to
get me here. It's something to be shamed about. But
I get. I get why you didn't tell me. It
wasn't the right choice, but I understand. The thing that
upset me is you saw me take the DNA get home.
That was your chance to have an honest coversation with me,
and you allowed me to find out this way.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Wow, what I mean? That shakes up your world?

Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's it's wild. And my I call my brother because
their first real their first thing to me was don't
tell anybody, which I thought is very unfairer. It's my experience,
it's also their experience, but it all it's mine too.
And did he know my brother had no idea shocked. Yeah,
my whole situation. He's biologically both of my parents, but

(11:29):
my whole life. He told me. I was the mailman's
baby because I don't look like anybody in my family.
My mom is curly hair, and I have curly hair,
but my sperm donor is Jewish. He's the Jewish one
has like a jew raw. I'm like, oh, that's where
hair it comes from. No, he he passed away. I did. Yeah, yeah,
there's one picture of him that I saw that that

(11:52):
I was like, I don't look anything like him either.
Put we could He he did die. He died by suicide.
He died by suicide. And that was an interesting thing
to learn because my mother had kind of dangled suicide
over me, her own suicide, potential suicide over me, for

(12:12):
so long, and that was interesting. That was like a
poetic realization. I'm like, whoa, that's wild.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Oh my god, there's so many letter layers. I don't
even know what the word is. Irony or it's all
of it. Holy shit, it's all.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
And I didn't process this for a year because I
was just like what, I just didn't know how to react.
I didn't know when people were telling me how to react.
And I was trying to be mindful of, like, don't
react in a certain way because people are telling you
should be mad, honestly not mad about that. Yeah, I
think it's cool. I think it's a really unique experience

(12:46):
to find out one of your parents is not biologically
your parent.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
It's an experience, it is. It's a unique experience to
go through in life. Yes, to discover there everything you
thought you knew about your life is actually not true.
It's wild. Not everyone gets to experience that. Yeah. So
in terms of it's when we get just to comedy.
Did you like did were you always funny? Naturally? Did
you start to use it as a defense mechanism? I didn't.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
I wasn't one of those people that used it as
a defense mechanism. But I was the most joyful when
everybody around me was laughing, and especially my mom because
it was just we never knew the mood she was
going to be in. When my mom and dad and
me and my brother were all together laughing. Yeah, the
most blissful moments of my life where even as a child,
I knew enough to know in that moment like this

(13:34):
is beautiful and I only want this, and so I
was always chasing that.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, there is a high there. I mean, that's why
people go into lots of different things related field like entertainment,
like rock musicians and I think comedians like you both
kind of have this dopamine reward when you get immediate
real time because there's something special about real time feedback, right,
It's like depressing being a scientist and going through a

(14:05):
peer review where everyone tells you suck, and then you
have a year before the paper even comes out, after
it's accepted, and when it comes out, you get feed
maybe positive feedback from like one person, maybe one person
reads your paper. So I'm just like, I can see
how there's a real peel there to be able to
get real time feedback. But at the same time, do

(14:27):
you think there's a certain personality that it almost sort
of needs that real time feedback, Like is there a
need there that's being fulfilled?

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, I think every person on the planet really enjoys
media gratification. But that's why social media is huge. The
posting a picture of yourself or doing something and then
getting rewarded for it is high and you could see
the people that get real high off of that, and
I'm certainly one of them. But yeah, there's definitely it's

(14:58):
so rewarding to connect with a a group of strangers,
and it's also really nice. I've been doing it for
over a decade, so I'm super comfortable with it. I
can ride the wave, I can crush, I can annihilate
a twenty minute set or an hour set, and it's
such a huge accomplishment and it's really exciting. But it's
also really nice that like people come together, they pay

(15:18):
and arrange their lives so that they can be in
a room with other strangers to laugh. That is amazing
to me.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Well, I love comedy. I mean I even took a
course in Santa Monica performed it under an alter ego. Fine, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
You're Sasha Fear.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh yeah, I have. I could say the name of
my alter ego when people googling the set, but it's
pretty uh he's pretty perverted, the alter ego. But I
loved it, absolutely loved it. Yeah, Like I think that
if I didn't do this job, I probably would pursue
stand up comedy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Oh wow, yeah cool.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's uh, it's just it allows you
to really kind of just like be naked, you know,
in front of people and just be like this is me,
you know. And I also noticed there's a tinge of
self deprecation to almost every comedian I've watched. I it's
an interesting phenomen I've wanted to discuss this with a

(16:21):
fellow comedian listening listen to me with a comedian. There
is that kind of you know, I watched once a
really strikingly handsome man do comedy and he wasn't funny.
There was something about like kind of and also he
came out with this kind of like I'm the best

(16:43):
attitude and that combination. No one was like, people are like,
you're not a comedian. It's almost like there's like this
implicit thing that to be funny you have to almost
kind of be relatable and.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Making and self deprecation is I think it's super healthy
and it's it's it's a way to kind of gain
control of yourself, and it's a way to accept the
things about you while making fun of them. At the
same time. It's so cathartic. I have so many things
to be self deprecating about, and it's really one of
my favorite things in comedy is getting roasted and I'm

(17:20):
so sensitive. Oh my god, I've been.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Been roasted one of your Comedy Central roasts.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, I'm not not a common central roast, but in
smaller versions of that. But I love it. It's so
that's probably the most Catharsis I've ever received on stages.
It's getting absolutely annihilated, my character, my look, everything, because
it's like, oh, this doesn't matter, it's all fun.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, there's a great humility there, but there's also like
there's a fragility there I see amongst comedians as well, right, yeah,
sort of like you know, like if no one's laughing,
it's almost like what the fuck are you laughing? And
you have to really miss but you get you know, internally,
I can see it and upset, like they're upset, like

(18:04):
why are you not laughing at me right now?

Speaker 1 (18:06):
That's a newbie. Usually that's usually a sign of a newbie. Yeah,
because bombing ruined me for about seven years. I remember
one time the manager that I have now, he before
we work together. He got me a set at Caroline's
on Broadway, which was a huge club, and I bombed
so hard. I didn't talk for two days. I left
the comedy club, didn'tal I just didn't say any words.

(18:29):
And it's a comic's get immediate gratification, but we also
get immediate dissatisfaction, like and and when you bomb, you're like, wow,
you don't like what I said or how I said it,
that's who I am.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, it's almost that you take it so personally, it's
like you don't like who I am. There, there's like
the comedy and the and who you are so intertwined. Yeah. Yeah,
but it's also it is really vulnerable putting yourself out
there like that. And so I think that's a I'm
and just validate you for a second in that experience.
I'm such a psychologist. And but it's incredibly vulnable thing

(19:06):
to go out there and be naked. And I don't
think audience is really you know if they're heckling, especially
like they don't get like that's a human on the
stage there who literally put themselves out there and been
like like, you know, I'm going to just say the
most intimate things about my life and and and share things,

(19:26):
you know. So yeah, it's no, I get it. I
can get that way. That would be incredibly upsetting.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah, but then you do it for enough time and
you're like, oh, come ha me bro.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
And that's the beautiful thing, right when you can handle
that kind of rejection. I recently took up a hobby
of magic. Maybe I'll do some magic. Yeah. But and
I so I set up a shop. I set up
a table in Santa Monica on the beach path, and
I started to enjoy the rejection. It's good practice. Yes,
it's like, you know, i'd be like, hey, do you
want to free magic show? No, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
You know you don't want to see my magic magic.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I feel like I told at both.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
But you live through that moment and you're like, oh,
I've thrown.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
All the rejections and it got made a reel of
all the rejections. They're funny, you know. But so I
think it's like, there's it's great to be able to
learn that muscle. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
And I might have abandonment issues, and so being abandoned
by a group of strangers and getting through that improving yourself.
You're proving yourself you're not going to die, You're not
a bad person. But I had to go through years
of tears to build the strength. But the strength that
it gives you is huge.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Good on you. I mean, someone of the abandonment issues
doing comedies. I'm trying to think of a funny analogy.
But you can think of a funny analogy that it's
like someone who is scared. I don't know, what do
you think of something.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Somebody who's allergic to cats as a zoo keeper?

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Thank you for I needed a comedian all the stot
to come up with. But I knew that you were
thinking what I same thing. I was thinking. Yeah, so
good on you. I really do want to talk about
the psychology of relationships, the psychology of sexuality. I have
a whole bunch of questions related to the sexuality to mean,
but let's talk about relationships for a second. Personally. How's
that played out for you? Oh? So bad?

Speaker 1 (21:03):
So when I'm realizing this, you know, hindsight twenty twenty
and especially learning about trauma and the brain. You know,
to trauma makes you behave in ways made me behave
in ways that I was really ashamed of. And I
just blame myself because I didn't understand the neuroscience of
trauma and I didn't understand that your brain looks different
in a brain scan when you've been traumatized, like you're

(21:24):
just your fight or flight. There's nothing I'm wrong with you.
Your body's actually working correctly, and so that was really interesting.
So my relationships, when someone would give me a ten,
I think when you are neglected as a kid and
kind of emotionally abuse, when someone gives you attention, it
feels so good and you're like, oh my god, this
is what it feels like to be seen that you

(21:46):
don't even qualify. Is this person good? Are we compatible? Emotionally? Intellectually?
You don't even You skip all that stuff because it's
such a high. It's like heroin, and so you'll do
anything to not let that go because I've never experienced
that before. So I think when you grow up with
an unstable family life, your relationship life is kind of

(22:08):
set up to fail in a way. It's not necessarily true,
but for me it was. And so a lot of
mind games and manipulations with my first boyfriend, and so
out of revenge, he cheated on me, which everyone told
me he was. I'm like, no, he loves me and
you sheailed me, and as revenge, I was like, I'm
gonna date your bassist, and I did. Lovely man. He

(22:31):
we dated for three years. He was so sweet. I've
never dated somebody who's sweet before. But then after that,
I was bad again. So the relationship I'm in now
is the most beautiful, rewarding relationship ever. We started out
super Yeah, we started out kind of toxic, but I
greatly contributed to that dynamic because I was projecting him

(22:52):
hurting me and I didn't realize I was doing that,
and I was I was. I think anybody can sense,
like an audience consents when a comic's desperate for you
to like them. I just kind of projected these insecurities.
And then I also was so desperate for him not
to go anywhere, and he was like, I gotta go,
and so his body was reacting in a healthy way.

(23:14):
So but yeah, we've gone come to a place where
it's so beautiful and it's so we feel we're like
little kids when we're together, and we've carved out a
really safe space for each other. And so I realized, like, oh,
this is for you. Thank you. I do too, And
he's his in Our little kid comes out when we're together,

(23:34):
My little inner kid comes out and it's safe, and
so that's a rare. That's very rare for me. So
but my friendships were really There was one the year
that I stopped talking to my parents. I also blocked.
I blocked them, which is crazy but social yeah, social media,
but also the phone number. Like I had I do

(23:55):
a bit about it where I'm like, before I press
press block, I was like, am I allowed to do this?
Because sew up their ass that it was just unheard of,
I know, but I stopped talking to them. I stopped
talking to my best friend of fifteen years. Wow, she
had borderline and it was just reliving the mom thing,
did your mom?

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Because I literally diagnosed her at all.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
So, knowing everything I know about border life, I've read
so many books about it, I'm like, yeah, one hundred percent,
it's just she always thinks we're out together. Yeah, yeah,
you nailed it, and she always yeah. It's so frustrating.
And I would get triggered by my best friend at
the time too because she would behave in the same way.
So I realized that I was just re You recreate

(24:38):
the dynamic until you you overcome the dynamic.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Absolutely, and all caveats aside, We don't mean to stigmatize
people with borrowlying, right, there are plenty people borerline who
are perfectly wonderful people to.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Have self actualized ye.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
But there are people who don't do the work right.
And that's kind of what we're focusing on right now.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
You know, I try. I don't I like diagnose my
my mother because I don't know. But there I have
a joke. When I try to talk about our mental
illness on stage. I'm still trying to find ways so
that the audience isn't like, oh, that's sad. I'm like, oh, really, fuck,
but there is one joke that works every time. Yeah,
And I'm like I was, you know, I always thought

(25:19):
it was my problem. Like growing up, I'm like, why
am I so dumb? Because our relationship was so fraught.
And I was in a bookstore one day and I
passed by a book. The title, the real title of
the book was You're not crazy, it's your mother. And
I was like, huh, oh that book has to say
And I read the book front to back in three
bit days and I learned about narcissistic personality disorders. When
I say in the joke and I'm like, I call

(25:40):
my brother in the middle of the night, I'm like, DJ,
Mom's not bipolar, she's a bitch. I cannot know that.
But narcissism is who like people. I thought narcissism was
being full of yourself. That's not what it is. It
is controlling, and it's I mean, there's various types, but
like like if you how dare you upset me? How

(26:03):
dare like? That was kind of the attitude I was
met with by my mom and kind of my dad.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Well, usually with borderline you tend to find high levels
of what's called vulnerable narcissism, which is sort of like,
because I've suffered, I'm entitled to everything around me. It's
not a because I'm superior to others. I'm entitled. It's
because I am for fragile and I like and no
one seems to understand what I'm going through. And usually

(26:28):
that's correlated with a victim mindset, so like a perpetual
we called a perpetual victim mindset. Of course some of
us are victimized, and it's quite right to to acknowledge that,
but we're talking about perpetual Where she was your mother
kind of the victim of every kind of situation and
your own needs.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
What needs, Yeah, I felt I despised my needs. I
despised if I needed help with anything. I despised needing guidance,
which is that hurt me.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
So how did you learn to trust yourself? Because in
that kind of situation, a lot of people grew up
and they were and they kind of describe it as like,
I feel like I have no bottom, no center, no
center of being. I don't know who I am. Did
you ever go through that period event?

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Oh my god, about five years of I mean I
didn't know who I was the whole time, and that
was jarring because you're like, was this all I was?
Just putting on a mask?

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Fuck?

Speaker 1 (27:25):
And then you have to do the hard work of
excavating yourself from the rubble. But I would cry in
my therapist's office so often, like I don't know who
I am, and she's like, that makes sense. Of course
you don't know who you are. You've been told who
you are by your family. They tell you and it's
and instead of going no, that's not me that somebody

(27:45):
with a sense of self would do, you bought into
it because you wanted to be loved by them. It's survival,
so you're these mechanisms were in place to keep you alive.
But I am just now getting to know myself. Oh
the past year.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Oh yeah, who are you? Oh?

Speaker 1 (28:01):
I'm I'm I'm so curious. I'm one of the most
curious people I know. I believe in magic. I believe
in aliens and ghosts and the transformative power of psychedelic drugs,
and I believe that life can be fun all the time.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Wow, yeah, you left something out. You're also into extreme weather.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
I love tornadoes. I know they're incredible. I want to
do it. I missed out on it this season because
the spring is almost done. But you can do tornado
chasing with storm chasers, being in front of a tornado,
like seeing I least live in Virginia Tonado.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah that's emotional.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, doc, I mean, you're very correct, But there's something
so awe inspiring and humbling. Nature is so humbling, it's
so necessary. And I believe plants are sentient. There's all
these experiments about this. One guy did an experiment that
I learned in a in a workshop with Laurelan Jackson,
who's a renowned psychic medium. I'm obsessed with her, where

(29:06):
they hooked plants up to an ekg. The guy, the scientist,
left his studio and had a timer set where he
found this animal. He wanted to find an animal that
only lives a couple of days, and there's a certain
shrimp at the bottom of a river that only live
about a day or two. So he didn't feel bad
killing them, so he dumped them. Once the timer went off,

(29:26):
he got out of his studio because he didn't want
to affect it. He dumped the shrimp into boiling hot water,
and the EKG on the plants was going nuts. And
so there you go. Plants are sentient like they and
I think that is the most interesting, beautiful facet of life.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Well, we do discuss in this podcast different theories of consciousness,
and I do feel like we're we've opened up fifty
different threads at once and haven't closed any.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
But that's my mom. Let's say what conscious plants feel?
You know? What do you say plants feel?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
You know feel? You know? Well, But there is a
certain theory of consciounce that consciousness is fundamental, that it's
you know, we're It's more that we are tapping into
a universal consciousness. It's not like we have our own
consciousness that is completely circumscribed in our brain. Right. So
there are some really interesting theories that that do We've
opened real scientific possibilities for everything to sort of have

(30:22):
a certain level of consciousness all you know, biological organisms
and whether plants are conscious. I think it's still open
for really legitimate scientific debate and discussions.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
So yeah, but can narcissism be cured?

Speaker 2 (30:38):
The narcissism and the extent to which it can change
really depends on what kind of narcisism you have. So
if you score really high in what's called grandiose narcissism,
which is like I am, that's like the braggioso kind
of narcissist, like the Kanye West, you know, like literally
literally I'm Jesus or whatever. If you believe you're Jesus.

(31:01):
It turns out those people it's very hard to change them,
Like you know, I'm a This is coming from mysts
from Scott Berry Kauffman, who's like a humanistic psychologists. I
believe in the fundamental potential for growth for everyone. But
with that said, the ones that end up in clinical
therapy either tend to be the grandiose narcissists who've been

(31:24):
forced to be there by their girlfriends or this is
a fact, there's only two types of narcists. You will
see it in a clinician's couch. Is the one that
the grandiose narcissist who's been forced and and and and
really doesn't change at all. They're resentful that they have
to be there, or the vulnerable narcissist who has reached

(31:47):
a point of depression and anxiety, because you do tend
to find anxiety and depression quite high in those who's
high in vulnerable narcisism. We we've done work on this.
We've rerit a paper on the clinical correlates of different
types of narcissism. So we know that the real, big, vulnerable,
vulnerable one is vulnerable narcissism because if you're not getting

(32:08):
that attention and validation, because you you kind of feel
broken inside a lot of people scriding vulnerationis they don't
feel they're superior at all. They feel like they are
fundamentally worthless. It's I call it the entitlement paradox. I
coined that love that you like that love the title
in paradox? Do you like the phrase great because on
the one hand, you feel like, Okay, Gregg GERALDO, you

(32:30):
know the comedian.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
We share the same manager share.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, yes, he's rest in peace.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, he was a great, great comedian.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
I have a quote from him in my new book
on I'm writing a book about vulnerable narcissism, and I
have a quote from him. He says, my whole life,
I've felt like a piece of shit at the center
of the universe. And I think that perfectly encapsulates the
vulnerable narcisism kind of mentally as well as a lot
of comedians I think feel that way. Do you resonate
with that?

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, I'm so self aware the years of work that
when I get into the victim mentality, I know it
right away and I go, we're doing the victim thing again?
Does not do this dance?

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Amazing?

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Yeah, it is. It's great. One other thing a theory
that I've kind of come up with that I'm curious
of your thoughts about narcissism and borderline not things like sociopathy,
because I have friends who are teachers who teach like
three year olds and they're like, no, you could show up,
you border sociopath. I've seen it. I've seen it, and
they've told me stories. I'm like, oh, okay, yep, you can.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
There's a particular phrase for that, because you don't label
those kids a little psychopaths. It's called like a you know,
like like impulsive avoid.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, sure, but yeah I can say that. But borderline
and narcissism is a response.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
We don't want to self fulfilling prophecy with these kids?

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Is that why I behave? It's like if you think
your boyfriend's cheating and you keep asking them, he's like, well,
now I'm going.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
To put a label psychopath and a three year old
they won't grow up.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
But borderline and narcissism are response to an event or
to being treated a certain way.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Right, Oh well, everything's a nature nurture mix everything, So
you can't put some things in a box that's like
purely socialization and not genes and say those are just
purely genes and not everything.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Actually, would you argue narcisism is genetic? Can it be genetic?

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Everything including narcissism? One percent? There's a genetic basis to it,
everything including your introversion, extroversion, your You can go down
the list of all your personality traits, whether or not
you're open to new experiences or not, they all have
a genetic basis, which just simply means a temperament. You
know that you you certainly, certainly you can acknowledge that

(34:37):
there's a continuity of temperament you've had your whole life,
even though you word and grow traumatic. Yes, you know,
even though you've been on this amazing journey, there's still
a temperament. There's still like an inner core to you.
And when narcissism is true, it shows it shows itself
very early. Really yeah. Yeah, some of these clusters of
traits tend to show themselves very early in life and

(34:58):
can be amplified by the environment.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Then if you are raising a child and you see
signs of narcissism in your child, can you steer them
in the other director?

Speaker 2 (35:10):
You can? I really do think you can through nurturing
and off and uh and real firm parenting.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, and showing them, like I think, proving to them
how good it feels to connect with people, and how
good it feels to like, you know, my girlfriends and
I we always just pump each other up. We're like, yeah, page,
you're two any bait Like that feels so good?

Speaker 2 (35:28):
And when you wait, I want to be one of
your girlfriends.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah that no, But my group of friends are amazing
badass I believe, like truly, like I've one of the
one of the biggest modalities of healing that I've engaged
in for myself is getting a group of friends that
see me and hear me and go up and be
a little psycho today. But hey, girls, sometimes psycho like

(35:51):
it's okay.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
I have my friends like that too, And there you've
got a treasure.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, But psychopathy is an interesting one because you can
have the brain of a psycho path and not develop
any outward behaviors that are bad or moral because you
had a really caring, nurturing family that you grew up in.
It's the combination that's particularly bad.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Can I ask you another psychology question?

Speaker 2 (36:15):
To ask me anything? This is something that's this is
the psychology podcast.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Okay, perfect, I'm so glad I'm here. I don't have
a therapist right now.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
By the way, this is a chill pill and you
can have this at any point.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Thank you so doing. Guys, we fucked for ten years
getting all the emails from people. I almost felt a
little silly for being naive to this, but we we
just get thou I mean, we probably have hundreds of
thousands of emails. That's not an examination. I exaggerate everything
from people who were raped or from people who are
abused as children sexually abuse. Pedophilia fascinates me because I

(36:49):
can look at the people I know in my life.
Eighty percent of them were affected by pedophilia. It is
so rampant. Yeah, they either as somebody in their pedophile
in their family. Really yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, the base of the population, it's.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Crazy high to the point where I'm like, this is wild.
And so it's been happening since a lot for a
long time with the history of humanity.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
It was normalized in the Greek era, right, a little boy,
you know that, the status social status.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, and and like, well, you know Alice in Wonderland,
that's one of my favorite books. But the Lewis Carroll
wasp like he was in love with Alison. Yeah you sorry,
Well no, I didn't know that when I fell in
love with Alice in Wonderland and I was talking about
holding opposites, right, sorry, but you can still enjoy it.

(37:40):
You ruined it for Well, my brain isn't a trauma
brain anymore. So it's not black or white. It's not
you're either good or bad. So I can hold that,
like somebody can write this beautiful book and also be
a better vile But I'm like, this is such a
rampant thing, and it's so interesting. I think one of
the reasons why it's so rampant is because everybody's so
scared to talk about it. And I think I find
that very interesting given that so many people in my

(38:01):
life are affected by it.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Right, Well, I'm really sorry that many people in your
life have been affected, But I didn't. I didn't. That's
very high. I have noticed a very high number of
comedians joke about pedophilia. Just topped the other day, I
went I went to the Naked Comedy show. I was
telling you about that. Yeah, first time I've ever been
to such a comedy show. And I thought they were
so brave to go. I was like, I'm not that

(38:24):
I admire them, you know, like, but but but the penephilla.
That was a topic that's just like it seems to
be something. It seems to be like we use humor
in a way to really process and well, what is it?

Speaker 3 (38:37):
You can explain it to me, Well, and you look
at the psychology of a joke that's like kind of
you know, a joke that's edgy or you know, from
a comedic standpoint, from a writing standpoint, the victim of
whatever you're talking about can never.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Be the butt of the joke. That's just because that
it's not. And that's why you know, people get pissed off,
comedians will get canceled. But it's but if you take
zoom out from the canceling and the politicizing, you go,
it's not funny when you're just kicking someone when they're
down right, But when you can make when you are
the victim of something really tragic and you make a
joke and you put the perpetrator in their place in

(39:11):
a way that makes other people feel validated who've been
through that, it's the most healing I think it is.
I could think of.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, it's a great point.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Hurt people. Hurt people is kind of bullshit because most
of the cases I was hurt and I I mean,
of course we're all going to hurt people in our lives,
but nowhere near the damage that was done to me,
because because being hurt made me feel so bad, I
would never want.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
So that's a myth that hurt people, hurt people think
is a myth most people. There are a lot of
myths about like trauma, and I'm actually writing a whole
book on this right now.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
That's great because the Instagram community trauma influencers know, there's some.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Really trauma is such a shit show.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's like, it's not an excuse for you to be
a piece as ship.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Well that's the that's the main thesis of my book.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, that's that's very much needed.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Thank you. I can't wait to share it with you. Yeah,
not because you, Yeah, I think you enjoy this. But
I mean everything is a combination of nature nurture, right, So,
I mean I think there are certain you know, genes
contribute to urges, you know, just like there's genes for
alcohol urges, right, Like, but what can all these people
who overcome all sorts of tendencies and urges they have

(40:22):
for you know, those who are predisposed genetically towards alcohol
tend to have family who were addicts. No shit, you're
getting their genes.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, so you have it genetically and you have a model,
and you're.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Getting the environment. If you get both the genes and
the environment, that could be really tough. Ye. But but
the most the hurt people hurt people. Think I think
most people who have been through terrible things tend to
have develop a greater empathy and sensitivity. Usually the siblings
of those who have the full bown illness tend to

(40:56):
have a watered down version of it that is more
caring and empathetic. And you see that with creativity as well.
I've studied the mental illness link to creativity for twenty years.
I've studied that topic, published neuroscience papers on it, and
you do find that children descendants of those who had
a full bown mental illness, as particularly schizophrenia. Yeah. Yeah,

(41:21):
but the children get a water down version called schizotippy,
which is a personality trait. It's like schizophrenia light.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Oh that sounds fun. He's just cookie.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
I got a little of that myself, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Oh really, yeah, schizophrenia is no joke. Man.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Well I don't have schizophrenia, but schizop schizotippy I think
has really fueled my creativity and imagination.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, because you could be goofy, you could be a
little off, which I love people.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
With imagination as well.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Totally totally.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, I may have a really rich imagination. That's schizophrenia
full blown cases. Your imagination is so great that you
can't differentiate. If you haven't light, then that means that's
kind of fun. I can go through I go into
like a real fantasy world and be able to know
that it's fantasy.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Yes, and get yourself out of it. So Laura l
and Jackson was talking about earlier. She has two books
that are just amazing. I was introduced to her from
the Netflix docu series Surviving Death. That show changed my
life and got me on the wormholes that I'll be
on for the rest of my life. But I've taken
a lot of workshops with her. I've seen her do readings.
She integrates a lot of science into her abilities. She's

(42:27):
had ekg's while she's giving a reading, and her brain
scan reads as if she's in a coma while she's reading,
which is really interesting. And she co taught this workshop
that Oh, they shared one thing. I want to I
would love to see what you think of this, but
she said schizophrenic. This is her spiritual explanation. So well,
you know, we'll never know. But she's like, we're all, well,
we're born, you know, we're spirits incarnating in a body.

(42:49):
We have to like lower our vibration to be in
a bot because the Earth is just a very low,
heavy dense energy. But with skits of a lot of times
when people are born schizophrenic, we're all born with a
Dunce cap that kind of caps all this universal knowledge
because if we if we had it all at the
same time, we would be completely overwhelmed our nervousys and
would be fucked with schizophrenia. The Dunce caps tipped a

(43:10):
little bit and stuff's getting it and it's just a
extreme overwhelming of the nervous.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Well, that's actually really scientific accurate. It's called reduced lead
and inhibition.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
To tell her the techniculture, Oh, I don't know, you
talk about it. I'm seeing her in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
My whole dissertation was about, well not the whole, but
a big part of my PhD dissertation was on the
link between reduced lean inhibition and creativity. And it turns
out that those with full blon and schizophrenic episodes, they're
leading inhibition is solo that they really can't filter out
things that they should be filtering out as irrelevant. So
there's lots of things in our environment that are relevant

(43:45):
to the goal that we have in our mind. But
people with schizophrenia they find meaning in everything. Everything becomes relevant.
So that that thing's talking to me over there, Suddenly
it's relevant that Corona is what corona? Why you look
at me like that, you know what I'm saying. But there,
you're you're, you're, you're kind of drowning and meaning. Oh

(44:09):
quite put it that way. But there is beauty in
finding greater meaning. So if you can lower the dial, basically,
don't throw the baby out in the bathwater, is what
I'm saying. I don't like stigmatizing people, right, and a
lot of the ones that.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
I've met, I'm like, you're sweet and kind and totally God.
I bet you would write a killer script if you
could just dial it down for a second.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
What we want to help them do is not become
someone else, But we want to dial that down a
little bit. Let them be able to ground themselves in reality.
It's called reality monitoring. They suck it reality monitoring.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah yeah, But.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
If we can help them with that, then they can
still keep their rich imagination. They can get they get
to keep, you know, seeing life with a sense of
meaning because being able to infuse your life with such
meaning can be a source of transcendence.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
Oh my gosh. Yeah, And we're the only creatures on
the planet out of all the animals that like need
meaning the way that we do. Another fascinating thing that
I'll remember until I died that I learned in this
exact workshop. She co taught it, like I said, with
a scientist. I have his name in my email if
you're interested. But I'm like, this is worthy of looking
into on a large scale. They did a study of

(45:15):
nonverbal autistic children, and they showed video footage from their study.
This woman has had three kids. One of them was
non verbal autistic. They taught that son a communication method
with a It was a piece of paper that looked
like a keyboard, and he could spell out words. He
could totally communicate. He was super smart, very funny, like

(45:35):
his personality came out once they had this. And her
youngest son, who does not have he's neurotypical. Right is
the word? She goes, Mommy, Mommy, I forget what the
autistic child's name was, but let's say, Dan, if you
go upstairs on the third floor of our house and
write a word on a piece of paper, Dan will
tell you what the word is. He's like psychic And

(45:56):
she's like what, So she did it. She went upstairs,
or he said, if you word. She was like, okay,
this is weird. So she went upstairs and wrote a
word on a piece of paper, came down to her
nonverbal autistic son in the kitchen, and he told her
exactly what the word was, and they they from there
did this study where they tested it wasn't psychic abilities,

(46:17):
but they're so sensitive. Nonverbal autistic people have such a
beautiful sensitivity. And I'm like, whoaoa, whoa. They can pick
up what you said. That is mind blowing. That's mind blowing.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Have you do you know anything.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
About Oh yeah, I do quite quite amount of work
with twice exceptional kids who are gifted and autistic. Scientific
director of Bridges Academy, which is a special school for
kids who are twice exceptional. And these twice exceptional kids
are extraordinary in they hold together paradoxes that society tends

(46:54):
to treat people. You're either gifted or you're orning disabled. Yeah,
but you know a lot of kids are so not
just sensitive, just so brilliant at connecting dots and seeing patterns.
Pattern detection seems to be a real a big plus
from autism.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Yeah, you know, I think autistic people could save the world. Actually, yeah,
And I'm like, look, can we all not sleep on that, Like,
let's look into this more and figure out how.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
They feel body on musk. But he's certainly on that
autism spectrum. Yeah, he's done a lot for this world, right, Yeah,
And and uh Zuckerbergo is openly autistic. Oh is he?

Speaker 1 (47:36):
I didn't know that, I think, so it makes sense, yeah,
not to diagnose people, but yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Then there are and then there are plenty of women
who are on the auto spectrum, but they have shame
over it because it's not as like accepted if you're
a woman in this a mask a lot, and I
think that's really sad that they have to they feel
as they had the mask.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Yeah. I I there was a point at one point
in my life where someone was like, are you autistic
or I'm like.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
But then I looked at all these videos of me
as a kid. I would always flap my hands and
it's almost like I'm autistic, and that's like the marker.
I'm like, oh, okay, But and I try to take
an online test, I'm like, that's not the way to
go an online.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Honestly, only almost every commune I've ever met, eventually, after
talking to me, becomes convinced there yeah, Neil Brennan.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, but you can make a case.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
But he took a test, right he I we got
him to a whole panel of things.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
What is the Is there a marker for autism in
terms of because there's such variations of it, but like,
is there one or two things that if you check
off these things?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Like it's more complicated, there's a lot of it's a
big checklist. Yeah, it's not just I would never mention
just yeah, it's thorough. I would never just mention one
or two things. You know, But you are good at
looking me in the eyes. Oh yeah, I don't. I
don't get it all just to GI vibe from you
for what That's where I get a little neurotic, a

(48:56):
little do I know what I get from you?

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Yeah, let's.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
I get a little neurotic. I get a little insecure,
but but like immensely confident at the same time. I
feel like you're a parent walking paradox. You walk around
like I don't know which side is going to come
out when you know.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
But maybe a lot of that comes down to who
you're with and whether you feel comfortable. You know, I
feel like if you don't feel comfortable around someone, you
probably like shut down.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Oh yeah, I'm a totally different person.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Yeah, that's my prediction about you.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yeah, that's accurate.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
It's it's been such a delight talking to you today.
I know, I know, we don't have much more time.
There's just one one more thing I want to bring
up because I've been really enjoying watching your stand up
and I feel like there's a lot of psychology. I
really recommend people watch you who are interested in psychology
because you bring up a lot of psychological insights that
just off the cuff, like you don't realize it, but

(49:57):
but you I'm like, she nailed it. You know. Cool
this one, I I thought you nailed it. You talking
about how are boys and girls? How do they raise differently? Right? Yeah?
And then you made this joke about how the wires
got crossed. Oh yeah, it kind of points to the
socialization processes as we have as boys and girls. Can
you talk a little bit about that?

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Yeah, so the joke. I love this joke.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
I love it too, I really love it. I say,
you nailed it.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Thank you. I appreciate that, So I say, I go,
I talk about like, I'm a straight woman, and if
anybody in here thinks people could pick their sexuality, talk
to them. You're a straight lady. We wouldn't pick this.
We're tired. And I talk about how I think it's
a miracle that straight people get along and let alone
find love, because we're raised to be such polar opposite people,
even though we have so much in common. And I go,
you have little boys growing up being told by the

(50:39):
world you can be mad, but you can't be sad
because that's chickshit. And then you have little girls growing
up being told by the world you could be sad
and cry, but don't get mad because that temper will
scare everybody away.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
True.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
And then as a result, you have these men walking
around going, oh, I'm so sad, and these women are like,
I'm so angry.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
What do I do?

Speaker 1 (50:58):
And the wires are crossed?

Speaker 2 (50:59):
And that's that explains social media content. Gendered content. Yes,
all the all the you know, the bros. You're you're
not fulling anyone, bro.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Grow to a drug store. Look at the deodorance. The
man's deodorant is called wolf thorn and the women's deodorant
is Lilac.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Yeah yeah, Okay. See that's why I like, I secretly
want to be a comedian because like when I call
out things like that, people I get pounced on. I
made a joke I made. I tried to make a
joke on my Instagram about like, you know, most of
Instagram are well, guys trying to convince each other they're strong,
like saying they're strong, and women saying that they're worthy.
Yea yes, And I was like, that's basically what I'm

(51:40):
seeing on my feed. Yeah, you know, but I got
trouble from that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Only good people cause trouble. You're like leading edge people
cause trouble. Yeah. And also it makes sense for you
to be a comedian because you actually have a front
row seat to the human condition.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
I do, and it's absurd.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Yeah, And so you see the absurdity for your job
under a micro scope, and that's what comedians are trying
to do, so you can live a double life.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Should well. Thank you so much for being on the
Psychology podcast. Thank you were awesome.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Thanks