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September 12, 2024 44 mins
This week, Scott is joined by The Cosmic Romantics— the husband and wife magic team consisting of Eric Thirsting and Elizabeth Messick! Scott talks to the couple about balancing a romantic and professional relationship, Elizabeth’s own struggles with mental health, and the different kind of magic archetypes. They even do magic for each other!

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yes, we can do it.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Okay, let's go.

Speaker 3 (00:02):
Let's go. Holded.

Speaker 4 (00:05):
He I'm blindfolded once, I'm blindfolded twice, and I'm blindfolded
a third time.

Speaker 5 (00:15):
There's no mirror behind us, there's no microphones in our ears,
because we did.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Not prepare this, kind.

Speaker 5 (00:22):
Of like you might have seen us doing our show, Scott.
Do you have any random item nearby?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (00:27):
He hold it up so that so that I can
see everyone at home, all right, and look imagine that?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Okay, perfect, Okay.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
Okay, why am I seeing? Is this like a something
you can write with?

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Maybe? Okay? And it smells kind of good? Is this
a sharpie if you're weird like I am? Yes, America.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Today, we have a really special treat for you all.
The cosmic Romantics. The Cosmic Romantics have been named quote
the Lucy and Ricky of magic, and they first came
on my radar watching an episode of Penn and Tower's
fool Us where they fooled Penn and Tower. In this episode,
I talked to Elizabeth Messick and Eric Thurston about how
they started their careers, how they balance a work life

(01:25):
and a romantic relationship, Elizabeth's own journey with mental health,
and we also get a sneak peak of Eric's upcoming
book about magic archetypes. In this episode, we also even
do some magic for each other. This was a really
fun episode and I really adore these two. So let's
get into it. I bring you the Cosmic Romantics, the
cosmic Romantics, who finally got you guys on the show. Yes,

(01:50):
it's been a journey. It's been a journey. Right when
we were about to get you on, I broke my rib.
That was a mess.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
Are you okay?

Speaker 2 (01:58):
I am all healed now, all here now, But we've
been through some hurdles. But I just want to say
I'm so excited to finally get you on the show.
I adure both of you so much.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
We adore you now.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, Eric Thurston, you are so interesting. You came from
Chicago with an improv sketch comedy background. Is that right?

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah? Exactly. I was.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Well.

Speaker 5 (02:21):
I grew up in the Chicago area and in college
all I cared about.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
And did was improvment scotch.

Speaker 5 (02:28):
I mostly did not pay attention to classes, and then
after college moved Chicago with some of my friends and
spent three years there. I don't know exactly what I
was trying to do I guess get on us an
l or something, but that or I don't even know
if that was on my radar, but it's all I

(02:48):
was really caring about at the time.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
You loved it. You were intrinsically motivated. You know. It's
funny because I think a lot of people feel like
I need to like justify why they do what they do,
and like, I've just taken up magic as a hobby
and I have no justification for it whatsoever other than
it brings me and others July. So you know, I
love that. I love that you that's was kind of

(03:11):
like your motivation for getting to that.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
Yeah, I guess you're right. There does need to be
a financial kind of reason behind it. I think I
got into improv in the first place. Well, I saw
a show at Second City in Chicago when I was
a kid, and I thought that was amazing, and I
was like, oh, I want to do that. But also
I think it was a way to get over a
little bit of like stage fright and shyness by doing improv,

(03:36):
which should be like the scariest thing in the world.
But I did it so much that it no longer
was scary anymore. In fact, something I felt more comfortable
doing with than I guess hanging out with friends.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
You know, did you have social anxiety ever in your
life or stage fright?

Speaker 5 (03:53):
So yeah, I'd say I've always had some social anxiety
and then stage fright.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
I don't know anymore if I did.

Speaker 5 (04:00):
I mean I still get a little scared performing, but
probably much less than most other people.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
I'm going to pivot a second to both of you.
Were you both oddballs in elementary school?

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, sure it was sure.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
It was Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
All of my friends from you know school, They're like, yeah,
that makes sense. You're a magician.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
I love that. Okay, So when did you get interested
in magic?

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Then?

Speaker 5 (04:32):
For me, well, my dad was kind of magic obsessed,
so he forced it on me and my brother and
my mom.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
We did a little family thing.

Speaker 5 (04:41):
But I actually got away from it because it was
I found it to be like annoying. I got back
into it maybe seven years ago, hare in La, partially
because of the Magic Castle, partially because a friend of
mine from Chicago was like, Hey, we should do a
show together. And at first I was like no, And

(05:02):
then I thought about it, and I thought of a
way to make it funny, to make us into characters.
And then I was like, Okay, yeah, maybe I do
want to get back into magic.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Now.

Speaker 5 (05:10):
Screenwriting's not really working out so well, so might as
well try this again.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Oh well boy, and then we'll get to this fateful
meeting with Elizabeth. But Elizabeth, first, tell me a little
bit about how long have you been interested in magic?

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Ever since I was nine years old. My brothers were
born when I was about eight and a half, and
I just felt very lonely, especially because we would move
a lot when I was a kid, so I didn't
have many friends other than cousins, and so I felt
really I was also socially awkward because we were never

(05:49):
really in one place for a long time, so I
would get anxiety going to school. I would cry, you know,
before going to school because I felt like I didn't
have any friends. But I always felt more myself on
stage ever since I was three years old. So when
my brothers were born, I just watched the show called

(06:10):
The Mass Magician, which now I know is not a
good show for magicians, but it did inspire me to
learn magic, and it was a way for me to
connect with people automatically, you know. And I ended up
quitting magic at the age of fourteen because it was

(06:30):
not considered a girls thing.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
I didn't have still not really.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, I didn't have anyone to look up to. I
didn't know there was a community, so I just stuck
with music and dance. And then it wasn't until I
was twenty four when I came to the Magic Castle
for the first time and I saw a couple of
pictures of women magicians. I immediately got the bug again,

(06:58):
or I guess the bug never left. It was just
kind of dormant. It's called catching the magic bug or
getting bitten by the bug. And I just started moving
forward ever since then. And before that, I was doing
a lot of music. I was in ten different bands.
I still have an album that's coming out from my band,
Golden Afternoon, that I ended up putting on hold to

(07:21):
pursue Magic because I didn't have the money to produce
the album and pursue Magic. So it's that's currently dormant,
but I will release the album at some.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Point, well, we all hope, so thank you. We're eagerly
waiting for it. So you're you're you're obviously you have
this performer bone in your body Eric. Eric does too,
He's just a little more understated with the performer Bone.
He's like, yeah, yeah, and both of your energies together

(07:54):
is really beautiful to behold. It's it's it's fun and
beautiful to behold, as my dad and I did in
Santa Monica at one of your performances. Yeah. So, okay,
where did you guys meet?

Speaker 5 (08:07):
We were well, we were both you know, magicians in LA,
just kind of starting, and we were both in professional careers.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
We were both in duos, and we were both Magic
Castle members. So the community, the magic community in LA
is pretty small. So his duo hosted a show at
a place called the Three Clubs, right, yeah, in Hollywood,
and they had found out about my duo and I'll
let you take it from here.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, they performed at our show.

Speaker 5 (08:37):
It was really fun, and then soon after that they
invited us to perform at their show. We were both
hosting monthly magic variety shows in LA.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah, so random, and this was back in March of
twenty eighteen.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
But I feel like both of our shows were pretty popular.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
So they were Yeah, they were both really good. I think.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Yeah, we were able to pay the magician as well.
Mine was at the Edison in downtown.

Speaker 5 (09:02):
We didn't pay our medicians, but we did, but we
did give good footage in a great house.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Yeah. Yeah, they were both successful, wonderful.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, it's not like you guys got paid billions of
dollars right to do that.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Now, well, my goal was to break even on our show.
I think you guys made some money.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
We made some money. At the time, I had multiple jobs,
and I wanted to make sure that the magicians were
also paid well.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
So I now know.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
That I should have been paid more as a producer
and all of this stuff, but I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
At the time. So I think at that time I.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Had like five jobs, but it was just a once
a month thing. I wanted to make sure that we
had something fun.

Speaker 5 (09:44):
So that so we kind of became acquainted with each
other's work that way, but we were still just friends.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
And then it was after.

Speaker 5 (09:53):
COVID and at the end of twenty twenty one.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
He's making a story so boring, So.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
I just want to make sure all the facts are right.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
So my actually correct.

Speaker 5 (10:10):
Yes, Look I woke up five minutes ago, okay, so
I'm just still kind of warming up for the day
and I.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
Just came from psychiatry and I have therapy later.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
This is a very psychologist talk.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. We'll talk
about that.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
So my dud was a tiki duo. His was like
a comedy duo. And it was twenty twenty when Eric
started doing his thirst in videos. They were like thirst
trap juggling videos.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
I forgot this was part of the story.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yes, and this.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
Is very important, And I ended up developing a crush
on him because he was this like hot juggler guy
that I you know, he thought it was funny all
these girls started coming out of the woodwork and just
like messaging him on Instagram and now you can from
November twenty twenty one.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:00):
I reached out to her about just doing a show
together at the Castle, and then I think she thought
it was an overture towards her. But I reached out
because she was in this relationship that I thought was
like steady, so I didn't think it would be weird
for me asking to a show with her. But a
few weeks later she's like, I'm single, and I'm like, okay.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
He didn't realize that I tried to break up with
him in October and then yeah, so I already had
a crush on him, and I'm like, the universe is
like calling me and it's telling me to go with Eric.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:35):
So she expressed her feelings towards me, but I was
not ready to hear that. So but a month or
two later then I came back and I was like, oh, yeah,
this this seems like a good fit.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, you're You're so great. You're the type of woman
that is just so great for a lot of guys
who maybe definitely Eric, but also other like more introverted
guys who don't love making the first move always because
they don't like to, they don't want to like creep
out a woman, you know. So and you you're just

(12:07):
very like you strike me as very extroverted and like assertive, assertive.
So yeah, that's wonderful. Okay, so now you both are
professional magicians. Elizabeth is on the board of trustees at
the Academy of Magical Arts or aka the Magic Castle,
which we're just talking about. First of all, that's that's

(12:29):
amazing how many women have been on the board of
trustees in the history of the Magic Castle. Can't be
a lot.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
Oh boy, I'm going to maybe be I'm going to
maybe say five or six.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
But I'm not inten.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Percentage full percentage.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
Oh gosh, tiny percent maybe three percent or something like that.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
I should look into those numbers.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
But I do know that I am the youngest and
I'm the youngest to ever be on the board of
trustees historically.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Wow, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Cool Monil.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
Yeah, wait, how old are you?

Speaker 2 (13:09):
I have no conception.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Oh I'm thirty three?

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Okay, okay, because you're you kind of you have this
like kind of like vintage right thing. It's like it
could be a very wide range of people.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Have no idea, how well, no idea.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
No idea.

Speaker 5 (13:23):
No.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
If you if you ask me guess I would my
range would be twenty to sixty five.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Oh totally No.

Speaker 4 (13:28):
I identify as a seventy five year old man and
a nine year old girl.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
I love that. I love that for you, for you,
love that for you. Okay, so that that's huge. I
do want to talk about psychology for a moment. Where
do you bring in you? Will you do? Obviously watching
your show bring in psychology a lot now, personally, I'm
obsessed with mentalism, the sub branch of psychology, of the

(13:56):
sub branch of magic that combined psychology with magic. But
you do it all right, You're like a variety act.
What percentage of your work do you think you bring
in psychology?

Speaker 4 (14:09):
I mean, I think one hundred percent at least for me,
because I am addicted to psychology. You know, I'm addicted
to mental health. And for me, it's it's kind of
a healing journey for me to perform magic. So it's
not even necessarily for the audience, but it's more for

(14:30):
my inner child, healing my inner child.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
And I think, wait, wait, like YOUSU said something that
was unbelievably funny and you didn't even realize it. You said, quote,
I'm addicted to mental health. I feel like that that
one sentence sums up your paradoxical personality, which I've observed.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
That's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know, I feel like Elizabeth doesn't go into anything
half asked.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Is that a percent true, Scott? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (15:05):
But then I feel like everything I do is half
asked because I want to do everything, So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, but you're right, it's all paradoxical.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
But so it's all about healing my inner child and
hoping that the audience can kind of connect with that.
If you're more vulnerable on stage, the audience tends to
connect with you more. I don't know about Eric, though.
How do you feel do you put any sort of
psychology into Yeah?

Speaker 5 (15:34):
Well, number one, I mean, look, there's misdirection. I feel
like the scripting of everything, there's a psychology too. I
think magicians are even more tuned in than other entertainers
in like how is the audience perceiving everything? And so
the order of information I give them, the way I
give it to them. It all has to be like

(15:56):
so thoroughly thought out and constructed. But again, I don't
think of it as psychologists think of it as magic,
but I think it's it's in there.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
But you're interested. You are you are interested in mentalism
and some things taken straight from the you know, mental
the history of mentalism, some of the traditional stuff. You
guys have this amazing telepathy thing that.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
You do, there's the psychology of that.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Yeah, trying to pick the perfect person, unless did you
already talk about this when I was gone for two minutes?

Speaker 5 (16:34):
Trying to pick the perfect, answered a lot of other
life's greatest questions, but great.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
We actually saw the meaning of existence while.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
You were no time to rehash it, though, I'm afraid.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Oh damn well, too short, so away.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
I Sometimes it depends on the mood I'm into. But
sometimes I'm like, I want to only pick nice people,
and I'll literally go to the audience and say, are
you nice or mean?

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Depending on my mood. But mainly, I think.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
It's pretty easy to tell when there's a good audience
member just based on their cadence, based on their smile,
stuff like that. So I think it's important to be
able to tell which people would want to come up
on stage. And I recently took a clowning workshop to
understand how to empathize with the audience more and how

(17:29):
to get volunteers, and how to have the audience immediately
like you within the first second, because that's very important.

Speaker 5 (17:38):
And then going back to this telep with the idea
you know we're doing, I think you're from this act
we call it second Sight, where Elizabeth is blindfolded and
I go out into the audience holding up objects. Thank you.
You know, everything in our show is kind of like
fun funny. We don't take it too seriously the way
that some monthalists do, but still I think there's a

(18:00):
little bit of maybe the way Elizabeth might milk a
moment in her interaction as she like has this telepathic thought.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Where you know, we're magicians, and so there's some trickery
involved in this, but it's still a little bit of
play acting as if it's real, as if she's reading
the sound of their voice or.

Speaker 4 (18:22):
When in reality, I'm actually trying to sometimes just figure
out what it is, and so I need some time
to think about it.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
So I'll act as if like.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
I'm seeing a vision, but I'm like, okay, I need
is this correct or is this correct? And so I'll
ask certain questions to kind of guide the audience member
to what it is. So, for example, I know it's something.

Speaker 5 (18:45):
It's all very cryptic because yeah, we can't exactly say
what it is that we're doing.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
But an example is this, I know that it's something
to do with the mouth. I know it's like a
mint or a toothbrush or something like that. So I'm like, okay,
you have good oral hygiene, yes, And they're like yes.
If they're either like excited about it. Okay, that means
I'm in the right on the right track. But if
they're like yeah, like okay, I don't think it is

(19:11):
something to do with her mouth, if you know. So
it's little things like that, hearing the cadence of people's
voices because I'm blindfolded too.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
I know. And sometimes you you know you're fishing in,
but sometimes you hit jackpot and then and then you know,
you just take a risk. Don't you have to be
bold in what you do?

Speaker 5 (19:29):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, I was at I was at one of these
event events where you're like keys and you're like, I
bet it's an Audie, you know, and she's like yes,
And I was like, oh, I wonder what the probabilities
are that there's a probably there's probably at least a
one percent chance she was going to be wrong there,
and she just went for it. I don't know, and
you don't have the verifire just confirm that. But I
feel like you have to be bold with what you do.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
You do have to be very bold, and you have
to know how to just roll with the punches if
you get something wrong, just move on. And I think
that's the that's the most important thing about magic, I
think is knowing how to just move on.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
It's okay, everything not just magic. It seems like being
able to handle rejection is just so huge with whatever
your feeling. But you guys get a chance to really
overcome that in a way that a lot of humans
don't get a chance to overcome that.

Speaker 5 (20:21):
I think absolutely, And when something goes wrong in magic,
it is, I would argue, worse than almost any other
art form, you know, like a musician messing up a
note or a comedian having a joke bomb. When a
trick fails, it's like you've failed on every level. You've
revealed a trick to the audience, maybe you've failed the

(20:42):
art of magic. It's tough, but still it is like
anything else. You still have to just be like, all right,
well that sucks, but here's another one.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
So true.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
Yeah, it's important to have the things you're really really,
really confident in the first trick and the last trick
because everything in the middle that can be more experimental
and if you, you know, mess up, they'll forget.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Definitely. Elizabeth, you said that you're going to your therapist
or today or you already came from with one of
the two I.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
Came from my psychiatrists and I'm going to my therapist.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Gotcha. So you're loading you're loading up, you're loading up
on help from healing, mental healing, we'll call it. So,
how has to the extent to what you're comfortable talking
about your own mental health struggles? Of course with everything
it's today, you know the extent to what you're comfortable
answering my questions? But how how has that journey coalesced

(21:38):
with your magic journey if at all? Yeah? Is there
any connect interesting connection?

Speaker 5 (21:44):
There?

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Oh? Absolutely?

Speaker 4 (21:47):
So. I'm diagnosed with ADHD, c PTSD depression generalized anxiety disorder,
and I also believe I have dyslexia.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
But that's a.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
Whole other journey that I'm going on, and I think
it's really important because with my ADHD, it's it's really
really hard to focus on one thing, which is why
our show and especially my performance is very manic, because
it really depends on my mood. Like I said, how
I pick an audience member and my manager always likes

(22:18):
watching us because my mood changes every time and he's like, Okay,
you're more in like a badass mood or like you
seem pissed off or you're really happy, and so just
it's important to help with regulating my feelings. We get
really overwhelmed, and so I take a wellbutrine in so

(22:38):
loft and that's helpful with my depression, anxiety and a
little bit of my ADHD. I used to wake up
every morning so depressed. I mean, am I allowed to
talk about like dark things on this podcast? Oh?

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Absolutely, we encourage it.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
So yeah, I'm such an open book. But yeah, I
had really bad suicidal idea like it.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
It was just pretty bad.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
Oh it's twelve or two, that's my lucky that's my
lucky time, because okay, anyway, that means it's going to
be a good day.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
So actually, yes, it's true.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yeah. So when I started going to therapy, I this
was about four years ago when I when I really
started on this specific journey. I had a therapist to
get over an abusive X years ago, but I stopped
talking to my dad. I'm not going to get that
much into it, but ever since I stopped talking to

(23:35):
my dad and I started going to therapy, all of
a sudden, I felt like I like a weight was
lifted and I was able to fly and I was
able to pursue things that I wanted to pursue because
I didn't have anyone to worry about except for myself.
And then also in magic or I guess in any
sort of community, the more successful you become, the more

(23:59):
you have and so having to deal with the haters
is like really important for.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Me because I really.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Oh, absolutely yeah, some people trying to sabotage either our
relationship or my career. And this has happened for years,
and I'm such a people pleaser that I would rather
but this is in the past. I would rather not
succeed in order to make someone feel more comfortable. But

(24:31):
now that I have been going to therapy and going
to my psychiatrist and I also have an ADHD group
therapy session, it's so much more helpful that there are
people I can relate to, and then cutting off people
who are toxic for me, and being able to say
no and be a being able to delegate tasks to

(24:53):
other people and ask people things. It has been so
helpful for my career, like just because I'm doing what
I want to do and I don't feel bad about it,
and it's a beautiful, freeing feeling, and I'm trying to
spread that word, which is why I'm on the board.
I want to be able to be a welcoming presence

(25:14):
to people in marginalized communities in Magic because I know
how it feels to either be made fun of or
to be hated on and to be backstabbed. So I
feel really strong, that's my answer.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
I mean, that's wonderful and that you've been able to
kind of harness it and channel it. I write a
lot about the link between mental illness and creativity. In fact,
that's one of the most recent posts on my sub stack,
is the interesting linkages between the two. Do you feel
like it fuels your creativity at all?

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Absolutely, I'm working on a solo show where I actually
talk about the struggle of my mental health journey.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
It's beautiful.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
Not I'm not saying like, oh, I'm not tooting my
own horn, but for me, it's beautiful because when I started,
I was also on an edible, so maybe that's why
I was crying. But when I was just writing it,
I started crying and it was this therapeutic thing. I'm like,
I really need to do this solo show. I'm afraid
to do it, but I think it's going to be
helpful for it so people can see the struggle that

(26:24):
I've gone through. But with magic, you know, magic can
be considered an art form.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Eric, do you have any issues he wish to share.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
No, I'm good.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
I think he also has ADHD, but you know that's
his own mental health journey.

Speaker 5 (26:44):
I had a weird enough childhood to where I'm doing
magic right now, so that yeah, yeah, No, there was
a I we had a parot hair in La where
I was saying a therapist and I found it to
be really helpful and I stopped. But I feel like

(27:05):
in the time she gave me a good way of
orienting how I was looking at what was going on
in my life with friendships and stuff.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
It was very helpful. So I'm pro therapy.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Good. Good, No, I'm really glad to hear that. How
was your mental health you guys were on pen and
Tears Full of Us. How was your mental health tracking
that whole journey like before and after?

Speaker 3 (27:27):
H Well, it's super stressful, anxiety inducing. You know.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
We just went on it a second time and we
can't no, no, no, no, we just recorded a year.
But it was interesting the second time through the first
time it was such a high stress preparation process that
I think we were kind of like on each other more.

(27:55):
We were arguing more that last one, just like over details,
and this time I think we just each let each
other do our thing more.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
As we prepared.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
We're learning each other's strengths and weaknesses and being able
to let go of certain things, you know, like delegating
tests to the other person. I'm better with like social
media and marketing and stuff like that. And he's just
like a classic style worker. He can just like sit
down from for two hours and just work on one thing.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
I'm very into the scripting of things and the creative
side of constructing the routines, especially when they're from scratch,
like what we've been doing on full.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
And I'll just have ideas. You know, this and this
and this and this.

Speaker 5 (28:42):
It is. Yeah, it's good to know when you can
let go and not feel bad about it because you know,
just letting the other person take the reins on something.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
And I think that made it a lot easier this time.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
I remember after the first one, I had post adrenaline syndrome.
Have you ever had that before?

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Oh, definitely, also post dopamine influx syndrome.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I probably also had that too, but
I was depressed for days after fool us. I don't know,
because I was just so, you know, getting ready for
it for months. And then it was done and it
was the most amazing day of my entire life. And
then there was after that it was crazy and then
very common.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Even that was probably less this time to anything.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
The post adrenaline syndrome was less, and I guess getting
ready for it was less.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
But the night before we had to go.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
To Vegas, we found out that our rehearsal was like
the day the next day, so we ended up leaving
at three am to get to Vegas. And the reason
I'm even saying this story is because my friend was like,
do you want some adderall? And I don't take adderall,
but I'm like, I need adderall because I need to
pack everything up.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
But we have so much to do.

Speaker 4 (29:53):
I should not have taken adderall my entire I had
a panic attack. I haven't had a panic attack in
a long time. I had a panic attack. I was sweating,
my face was numb, my fingertips were numb, and I
could I could barely talk.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
But I know the tools that I.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Need when I'm going through a panic attack, and so
I'm like, I have my like meditation room, and I'm like, Eric,
i need popsicles because it's important for me to have
popsicles because of the sensation of the cold and also
the taste having having essential oils, you know, the different
sensations having an ice pack on my head. I have

(30:33):
an ergonomic chair, I have a little waterfall and fairy
lights and meditation music and.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
All of those together calmed me down.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
So yeah, I feel like I'm growing because I now
know how to communicate what I need in the midst
of a really bad panic attack. And he's so good
at like getting all.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
The things from me.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I mean, honestly, you guys are such complimentary energies, right,
Like it's like he you know, he's uh he I'm
talking about him, like he's not right in front of me.
Well he is not technical right in front of me.
But uh, you're you're so Eric, you are you're striking
very realistic, practical, you know, and uh and get things done.

(31:27):
And my gosh, you know it's with a D. D
needs that needs that desperately. So good stuff, man, Eric, tells,
tell me tell us a little about your new book
that you're working on about magic archetypes, because I'm super
interested in this personally.

Speaker 5 (31:42):
Oh, yes, thank you, good question. I'm I'm really excited
about it. And uh, basically, the book's inspired by Joseph Campbell's.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
The Hello.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
And our friend John Booker has been gracious enough to kind.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Of like, guys know John Booker? Yes, do you know?
He knows every Do you know John Booker? Homeboy, he's amazing.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Out with him a couple of weeks ago. Well, you'll
have to we'll have to tell him. We know each other.
We all know each other.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yeah, we're over you with seeing them.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
I have a quick anecdote about John. We ran into
him at cheesecake factory for our anniversary or something like that,
and then he ended up paying for us, but he
didn't tell us the waiter. They left and the waiter
and he's so nice.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
That was very That's called generous magic. Yeah, but I'm sorry,
didn't mean it. I didn't mean to interrupt you. But
you know he's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, because he runs the
Joseph Campbell Foundation, so exactly this is relevant.

Speaker 5 (32:46):
He has a doctor in mythology and expert on all things.
But he's been helping me too. But the idea for
the book is, I'm going to break down the thirteen
as I have kind of defined the higher highest order
level of categorization there, the thirteen archetypes of magic. And

(33:07):
you know, because a lot of magicians just randomly say, oh,
I'm a close up magician or I'm a mentalist, and
they're talking about maybe the props they use or the
size of the audience they do, but they should really
be identifying themselves as the archetype of magic that they are,
and in other words, like why are they doing magic?

(33:28):
And what kind of effect are they trying to have
on the audience with their magic? Because I think that's
a more important way to kind of organize our thoughts
on it.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
So what archetype would I be? I'm the amazing doctor
Scott is my magician name, and I try to unlock
the potential of others through my psychology and my inspiration
and motivation. What archetype would that be?

Speaker 5 (33:50):
I wonder, maybe could be a kid wonder that's one
of the archives. But I think you'd be third Eye,
which I guess would encompass what most people think of
as mentalists. But basically, you know, so I'm trying to
do like a string theory thing like Joseph Campbell did.
But basically, the third eye archetype could be sort of
like a tarot reader, like maybe you do have powers,

(34:13):
or it could be like a Sherlock Holmes type figure
or a psychologist, you know, psychiatrist type figure. You're picking
up on things that most people don't see.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
I love that. I love that, And so we won't
spoil the other sixteen. Well, we'll have people read twelve twelve.
I'm sorry, I don't know why I made that up.
I made up a number, but the other eleven.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
So did I? And I made a thirteen?

Speaker 2 (34:36):
But why did I even say seven? Why'd I think
seventeen total? Anyway, I really am excited for that book. Actually, really, hey, look,
do you guys, I know you're not prepared for this,
but do you want to do a magic trick for me?
And I can do one for you? Guys? Do you
want to exchange magic tricks or you don't have to?

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (34:56):
Yeah, I mean, should we just do some mentalism so
we have the audience see what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, should we try put you on the spot and
you know.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
We performed for Share a couple of weeks ago and
I was literally on the spot we found out she
was there, and I was like, I want to meet her.
And then this guy is like, all right, the cosmic.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Romantics at performing.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
I'm like, well, that's the way to meet schaer.

Speaker 5 (35:20):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
We had that full of threat and we did like
ten minutes.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
Wait, did a spool, I did my School of Thread trick,
and then we did mentalism and she loved us and
she made me kiss on the cheeks.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
So yes, we can do it.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Okay, let's go.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Hope the sells tickets for y'all. Hope the sells tickets
for you all.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
I'm blindfolded once, I'm blindfolded twice, and I'm blindfolded a
third time.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
There's no mirror behind us, there's no microphones in our
airs because we did.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Not prepare this, but.

Speaker 5 (35:52):
Kind of like you might have seen us doing our show. Scott,
do you have any random item nearby? Yes, and hold
it up so that so that I and see.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
I have wanted home all right, and look imagine that.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
Okay, perfect, Okay.

Speaker 4 (36:12):
Okay, why am I seeing? Is this like a something
you can write with maybe okay, and it smells kind
of good.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Is this a sharpie if you're weird like I am, Yes, American, Okay.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
You know what's interesting is the way you went.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Yes, I'm like, okay, it's going to be a sharpie
because I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, like, I mean, I mean, bless you. You're like real,
you're not revealing your secrets, but you are giving some hints.
So blessed, I mean blessed.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (36:49):
See, you're you're what what How sure were you that
it was a sharp I was not sure.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
I mean you still you went and you went for it,
went for it. Pick one of these cards because people
have signed all the whole bunch. So I don't have
the full deck here. That's why it's not the full
deck legitimately, that's.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Not what you the card. Yes, tell me, tell me.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Let's six of club six of clubs.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
I was looking at the six of clubs as well.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Okay, six of.

Speaker 6 (37:20):
Okay, six of clubs, right, yes, okay, So let me
just put the rest back in the box.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Okay. Let me the reason why the sharpie is I
want to sign your initials E and B any E Okay, okay,
any any i really didn't write it too well, but
there you go. Okay, better than my writing? Is this

(37:53):
better than you really?

Speaker 5 (37:54):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Okay, so let us let us put this in the deck.
I'm going to look away. I'm going to look away
and put it somewhere in here. Let me tell me
if I'm all right, tell me if i'm if it's
going Is it going in?

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (38:10):
What's going in?

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Is it in?

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yep, let's close the box.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
All right, my friends, all right, okay, now let's see
what would you be impressed? What would you be impressed with?
What would you impressed?

Speaker 5 (38:30):
If you can find our card? I would be impressed.
It's in the deck somewhere.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Okay, how about if I well, no, I can't guessing
the cards not impressive because I already know what the
what that is? Well okay, earlier I was saying in
the show, how I have a magic addiction, right, yes,
and so with this magic addiction, I have to take
these fucking pills every day of my life. Okay, these

(38:59):
pills are are so addictive. The pills are addictive too,
But once I finished the pills, I usually can just
calm down and take a deep sigh and then I
can continue my magic.

Speaker 7 (39:12):
No way, I'm gonna no way, it's signed. I'm cool.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Now.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Awesome.

Speaker 4 (39:32):
That's really smart, like getting, you know, getting rid of
the pills.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
What a perfect, What a perfect? There was even more.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
That was like, there's no way to get there's no
way to get this out. I can't. I can't.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
If I'm like, wow, it's very here now.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
That would be actually amazing.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
I love that's so you too, with the so and stuff.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
We got, we got gotta we gotta get together sometimes
just do magic for each other.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
Yeah are you Are you on the East Coast or
where are you based?

Speaker 2 (40:06):
I'm in Santa Monica right now?

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Okay? Cool?

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, yes, and I go back and forth between here
in New York. It's so funny. I got I got
accidentally got the pills in my in my drink when
I was getting them out.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
So it looks like you're gonna have a good day. Okay,
I didn't mean.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
I didn't mean to do that. I think those pills
are wasted now right because unless I yeah, down them,
but I can't put them back in the bottle. But anyway, not.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Like a placebo pill. They kind of look like.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
They are pabo pills. Yes, they're definitely, they're definitely. There's
nothing in them. There's nothing in them. Really, Well, guys,
you guys are awesome. You've been described as the Lucian
Ricky of magic, and do you like that description?

Speaker 3 (40:57):
I love I love that. I can't go. Tway is
a genius for for coining that.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, yeah, and I agree with that description. Anything else
do you want to talk about? Coming up? Ada twist?
Do you want to talk about that?

Speaker 4 (41:13):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, I was on a twist.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
I pulled back in my bottle.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Talk to me.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
She's one episode four and let's see. I was also
in Marvelous in the black Hole. And I'm about to
be on a really popular kids YouTube channel really but
I'm not allowed to say what yet, and hearing consulted
for it, and yeah, because I want to do more

(41:40):
magic for kids, not like a birthday party magician, but
more like for on screen.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
It's super fun.

Speaker 5 (41:48):
And I've consulted for the Disney channel. Now I'll get
to brag that I've consulted for the really big YouTube
channel that we cannot name.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
Yeah, there were more we're doing it for. It's a
company that has like a bunch of different ips and
we're doing five different ips, and their individual eyeps have
millions and millions of followers.

Speaker 5 (42:11):
So hopefully, but maybe there are some things we can say.
We have some fun public shows coming up, performing a
Black Rabbit Rose soon and we're to be back at
Illusion Magic Long soon doing our doing our full evening
show so like to forty minute, like yeah, bringing out
everything we got.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
And we're wanting to perform on cruise ships, so we
want to film these performances, and so we're trying to
get a bunch of people to come out so we
have a good audience.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
I hope that works for you. Have you never done
a cruise ship before?

Speaker 4 (42:46):
No, I want to because I can't afford to travel,
so you know, might as well work.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Yeah, I get paid to travel, get paid to.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Do Man, that should be so much fun. And then
yeah you can just you'll pick the most exotic locations
to go to. Yeah, so everyone watched the Cosmic Romantics.
They are great. They have inspired me, they haven't they
They're one of my I'm going to forever consider you
guys one of my personal inspirations. Yeah yeah, yeah, you

(43:16):
with the continue putting the bills back, your card's gone
by the way, it's it's but uh yeah, just everyone
watched them. I hope you guys find a mental balance
between your work and your play, although your work is
your play in a lot of ways, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Yeah, yeah, that's one in the same.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, take a day off.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Well with magic, do you do? You have to?

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Right?

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (43:50):
No, we're doing okay, but we want more. We want
to make more money and work less in the future.
We wouldn't mind having a little more free time and relaxation.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah, but all things that are. We're very lucky to
be doing this.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
We got to get you a I know you're doing
all sorts of specials, but we need to get you
a big like TV series.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
You know what I'm saying, Yes I do. Let's make
it happen watching contact us.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Let's manifest that. Let's manifest that. Absolutely get you guys
a TV series. Thank you so much guys for being
on the Psychology podcast Our Pleasure.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Thank you for having fun. It's been an honor.
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Host

Scott Barry Kaufman

Scott Barry Kaufman

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