September 30, 2025 • 21 mins
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Hello, Puzzlers! Puzzling with us today: one of the hosts of "Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe," physicist Daniel Whiteson!
Join host A.J. Jacobs and his guests as they puzzle–and laugh–their way through new spins on old favorites, like anagrams and palindromes, as well as quirky originals such as “Ask AI” and audio rebuses.
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"The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs" is distributed by iHeartPodcasts and is a co-production with Neuhaus Ideas.
Our executive producers are Neely Lohmann and Adam Neuhaus of Neuhaus Ideas, and Lindsay Hoffman of iHeart Podcasts.
The show is produced by Jody Avirgan and Brittani Brown of Roulette Productions.
Our Chief Puzzle Officer is Greg Pliska. Our associate producer is Andrea Schoenberg.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello puzzlers. A quick announcement, The Puzzler is doing a
live show in New York City and we'd love for
you to come. It's October seven at six thirty pm
and an awesome venue called Caveat. There will be stories, puzzles, prizes.
It's part of the Cheerful Earful Podcast Festival. We love
(00:23):
a good rhyming title here at the Puzzler. Please check
the show notes for a link to tickets. Now on
with the show, Hello Puzzlers, I thought maybe this time
we could start with a warm up puzzle today. I
am looking for a four letter word. It's a word
that can follow sausage, gab or October, A four letter
(00:50):
word that comes after sausage, gab or October. That puzzle
is from Andrea Show for Senior Puzzler. Thanks Andrea, the
answer and more puzzling goodness. Up to the break, Hello puzzlers,
Welcome back to The Puzzler Podcast. The upbeat feedback at
(01:13):
the start of your chat GPT puzzle response, I am
your host, AJ Jacobs. I'm here, of course, with Chief
Puzzle Officer Greg Fliska. Greg. Before the break, we had
a little warm up puzzle. We asked listeners, what is
a flour letter word that can follow sausage gap or October.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
You know, when I think October, I think October surprise. Ah, right,
that's sort of the thing that's going to happen right
before the election that's going to change everything. But there's
no gab surprise. But you're looking for Fest as in
October Fest, gab Fest and sausage Fest, which is like
(01:55):
a sausage.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Party or just a fun little movie with that's.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Right there, we go, Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
By the way, this this little mini puzzle made me think.
A couple of weeks ago, we did the hardest easiest
quiz where we said, like, who is far in advance
to Well, one of the questions I didn't include is
when is Octoberfest and you're in Germany because it actually
(02:28):
starts in September. I think the majority of it is
into September. If you look at the dates and lead
into there you go. But whatever month it is. We
are delighted to have our guest today and his name
is Daniel Whitson. He's a professor of physics and astronomy
at the University of California, Irvine. He is host of
(02:51):
a great podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe that he
hosts with biologist Kelly Wiener Smith, and he has been
talking science with us for the last day.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Welcome back, Daniel, thanks very much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Of course, Now, yesterday we talked a bit about what
science is and one of the things, correct me if
I'm wrong. Not a professional, but it's a lot about
noticing patterns, trying to discern the signal from the noise.
So that's correct, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, lots of patterns out there in the universe, and
we're often looking for them. They're often really helpful clues
to figure out what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah. In fact, in one of your episodes I Loved You,
had a live recording of these scientists listening to the
first pulsar that they discovered, and it was just very
cool to hear that aha moment in real time. Now
they were British, so instead of being like, holy affing crap,
(03:57):
this is right, they were like, oh, it's that interesting look.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
About bleeding pulse.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
It's a very fun snapshot because usually discoveries are gradual
and you have to overcome doubt and uncertainty very gradually.
Before you convince yourself it's real. But that's one of
the rare moments when the evidence was so clear and
so crisp and so obvious that they can make a
discovery in real time. And this is before podcasting. They
happen to accidentally be recording themselves and so we have
(04:27):
audio of that moment. It's really incredibly lucky. That's magical.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It's magical, and it reminds me of the you know what,
you hope The process of solving a puzzle is too
You're working, you're looking for patterns, you're trying to, you know,
tease out the meaning and there's that aha moment when
something clicks and you realize what's going on.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
That's the ideal, you.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Know, right, that's what's going to happen right now. Daniel, Oh, yeah,
that's right. We've got a pattern recognition puzzle. Do you
know do you ever play the Connections in The New
York Times? Yeah, well, this is our version of Connections
with an audio spin. Actually we played it for the
(05:09):
first time. We gave it to win A Loo, the
creator of Connections, when she was a guest. So the
idea is I'm going to give I'm going to play
you a short clip of three sounds, okay, and it's
your job to figure out the connection. I'll give you
an example. Okay, so this is just an example one.
If I played these following sounds, what might this be
(05:47):
I wanted to get to anywhere? Okay, So those all
have something in common, which might be.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
They're not all Ozzy Osbourne.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Very good.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, you had a bus, a train, the car, so
they all have some kind of transportation.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
That is exactly right. Okay, so are you ready? We
got one, we'll count that. We'll count that Cordo.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You get a free pass on one of the other ones.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's right, that's precisely it. All right, good, Here we
go with number two. Use your hypothesis, make a hypothesis,
and then look for evidence on what connects these three
songs people people who need people? Right, Okay, there are
(07:08):
your three clues. Do you have a hypothesis?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
The first one I didn't recognize, but is people needing people?
Second one was definitely Bob Dylan like a rolling stone.
So then I was thinking maybe it's about personal connections.
But the last one was Madonna and Vogue, and so
now I'm thinking maybe it's songs that are also magazine
(07:32):
titles Vogue, rolling Stone, and People.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
You are correct, that is exactly the right hypothesis. That's right,
People and rolling Stone and Vogue, which are all still
in print unlike many magazines, so it all works. And People,
I think that was a funny girls. All right, I
got another one for you. Are you ready for this one?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I'm so ready. In case you haven't heard of this game,
the idea is that any actor, alive or dead, can
(08:19):
be connected to me through our work in six steps
or less. Advertising is based on one thing, happiness.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Okay, there you go. There are your three clues any
hypotheses for that one? Do you can you identify any
of them?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
First one I didn't recognize at all. Second one, I
guess is Kevin Bacon talking about six degrees of separation,
how everybody's connected to Kevin Bacon. And the last one
sounded like a clip from a movie? Was it maybe
Andy Garcia?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
I couldn't know it was.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
It was actually a TV show, a TV show about advertising,
a very uh in the nineteen.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Sixties, all right, so it must have been mad Men.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yes, And do you remember the name of the actor
who plays John Ham Okay, so.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
It's and bacon and I don't know the first person,
but that needy answer to this question.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah, it's a song.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
It's a song called Paradise by the Dashboard Light by
a singer who had his stage name does have a
does have the word.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Meat in it?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Exactly meat Low.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You were so closed it was either going to be
Meet Loaf or Turkey Burger.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
So the Great Turkey Burger.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah that is fun. So yeah, I guess you are
younger than me and Greg that you don't know that song.
All right, I got two more for you. Are you ready?
Speaker 4 (09:53):
I'm ready? Truth is? I am iron man.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
I have a dream, but one day this nation will
rise up, live out the true meaning.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
Of its cream. That was Mistivu Chancels, Mistival Jangles Jangles.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
There it is, there, it is. I'm guessing the third
one it might be before your time, but maybe the
first two you were recognized.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Oh well, the third one is before my time. But
I know it because I'm not an ignoramus. You know
that's okay, Sammy Davis Junior right les And before that,
oh no, I've forgotten it. But the first one was
Robert Downey. I have a dream, right, so Martin Luther
(11:04):
King junior. So the connection is they're all juniors.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
You got it. Look at that. It did not even
present a challenge for you.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
It's helpful because I have a junior at home now
in high school, so I have junior in the brain.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Oh interesting, Yeah, all right, I got one more for you.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I'm okay by being I'm dye everything.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
I mean, you know what I almost did like a
man in the uniform.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
That one fit you.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Grand I'll up sometimes to me, I.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Serve at the pleasure of the President of the United States.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, I serve at the pleasure of the president.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I serve with the pleasure of President Bartlett. Okay, there
you go. There are your three do you hypotheses?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I'm guessing it's gonna be something about West because the
last one was a clip from the West Wing.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
I think very good.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So you only got one, but you nailed it.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And the first one was maybe was that that animated
cartoon with the mice go to America?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I'm not sure it was not.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
It was not it was it was instead West Side Stories,
West Side Story, those great movies, both great, very.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Distinctly different movies.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
The other one who Fible goes West. That yeah, blots
are slightly different, fewer people.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Die, and the goes West, you know, still live in
the same place in my brain.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
So there you go.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And the middle one was the great May West.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
That's right, May West sometimes but it was interesting. She
didn't she didn't actually say that she come see me,
won't you. I mean it was so it is. It's
sort of like play it again, Sam, the famous quote
from Casablanca that was never set. He said, play at Sam,
(13:12):
play it once for something like that. Uh, well, you
did it.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Your listeners can't see you, so they don't realize how
young you look. But you guys are much older than
you look because the references. These references are from deep
in the last century.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
We're actually one hundred and forty years old each.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I did my best to phrase that as a compliment.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
You failed, but thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I was too young for Maywest. I was not like
at the Nickelodeon watching Maywest with my zoot suit or whatever.
But yes, you did great. You did great despite the
vintage of some of the clips. So I did have
(13:58):
before you go, since we have a bonus, i's scientists
on here, I have to say I am troubled by
this anti science feeling that I'm sensing in the United States.
What can we do to boost science and make people
realize how great science is.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yeah, I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I'm concerned that people feel like science isn't accessible or
that's not for them. And I think the best way
to share science with people to make them feel connected
to it is to help them feel like they're part
of it and it's for them. Science is just you know,
by the people, for the people, and of the people,
and so you know, on my podcast, Daniel and Kelly's
(14:42):
Extraordinary Universe, we try to break science down in a
way that is accessible, because in the end, science is
just people, you know, it's just people like you and me.
We're just curious people trying to understand the nature of
the universe, and so we don't need to have the
separation between the public and the scientists. Trying to break
down that wall a little bit and make people feel like,
(15:03):
you know, we're all just one happy family.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah. I mean, we're having some spats right now.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
But every family does right well.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It also seems to me a little bit, Daniel, that
the thing that scientists do so well right which is
investigate and learn and question and reinvestigate and relearn and requestion.
Somehow becomes a tool for people to say, well, scientists
got it wrong one hundred years ago, so they must
have it wrong now. It's that the search, the curiosity,
(15:36):
and the continual search to go deeper has ended up
kind of flipping people in the wrong direction.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, right, Well, you have this awkward situation where you know,
science is never fully settled.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
It's an ongoing conversation.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
But then sometimes somebody comes to you and they say, like, look,
an asteroid is coming towards the Earth, what do we do?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Ask you?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Right, And the scientists have to provide an answer, and
the policymakers have to make a decision, and so at
some point you want to engage the discussion and other
points you want to like, well, we got to pick
something to do here, right, So you know, it's awkward,
and I think it's important that we you know, the
science is informing policy but not dictating, because in the end,
you know, somebody who elected representatives going to be the
(16:15):
one to decide like, are we nuke in the asteroid?
Are we all you know, just hiding in bunkers or what?
But you want that person to be informed by our
best current understanding of the options and what might happen. Yeah,
that's great, well said, Well said.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
And you quote in your book on aliens that's coming
out soon. You quote Carl Sagan, who's a hero of mine,
and one of my favorite things that he said was
that the secret is this exquisite balance. This is a paraphrase,
but this balance between two conflicting needs. The skepticism of
(16:54):
every hypothesis, so real scrutiny that's on the one hand,
and then an openness to new ideas, like, yeah, read
that science sometimes is weird, sometimes the truth is weird.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Absolutely, And you know, I talk about Carl Sagan in
my book, but mostly actually to disagree with him, because
I think he was a little too optimistic. You know,
he tried to communicate with aliens. He was asked, hey, Carl,
would you design something we could put on this probe
we're sending out into deep space that maybe in a
(17:29):
billion years some aliens will receive and try to write
something that they could understand. Like what a challenge. And
you know, I don't mean to criticize him. I think
they gave him like two weeks to come up with
an answer, and he did his best. He tried to
describe like the hydrogen atom in terms of symbols, you know,
because he's like, I'm not going to write something He's
he's going to try to pull away all the cultural
(17:50):
apparatus that we have, and so he used these symbols
to describe a hydrogen atom. But you know, I think
that there's a lot more culture in those symbols than
he expected. Interesting, and I think it's probably impossible if
aliens for them to know what Carl was thinking.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Right, Although he is very pro alien. One of my
favorite insights of his is that in Star Wars at
the end there's an award ceremony and Leya and Hans
Solo and Luke get these metals.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Chewbacca they just toss him a dog treat after the ceremony.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Is over or something.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Very alienist.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, well, I'm also pro alien, which is where I
wrote this whole book. Do Aliens speak physics? Where we
try to ask what would aliens think about the universe?
Do they solve puzzles the same way we do? Do
they accept the same answers and they're looking at the
universe the same way? So I had a lot of
fun writing it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, it's really interesting. And what is what is your answer,
yes they do or no they don't.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
The answer is probably that aliens are likely much more
alien than we can expect. You know, we have this
one example, and we don't even really know where our
biases are, and when aliens arrive, we'll discover, Oh my gosh,
we never thought you could be like that, or you
could think this way, the way like before Starbucks took
over the world, you could travel around the world and
have coffee in different places and it was always weird
(19:18):
and you're like, what keep the grounds in it? M,
that's actually good? Or you know sheep's milk. I never
tried that, and it would blow your mind and make
you realize that you thought your life was the only
way to live. And so I hope when the aliens
arrive they blow our scientific minds realizing that, oh there
are different questions we never even thought to ask, or
you know, the answers are completely different from the kinds
(19:40):
of answers we even anticipated.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's either that or there's going to be Starbucks on
every plant.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
One of those. Exactly. Well, thank you, Daniel, We loved
having you, and I actually I do have an extra
credit for the folks at home. So listen to these
sound clips and tell me what do they have in common.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
I'm not a big fat panda.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I'm the big fat panda.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I am Bibby Lepi your novel.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Come back tomorrow to find out what the connection is.
And in the meantime, if you want even more puzzles,
and why wouldn't you check out our Instagram feed at
Hello puzzlers, I want to thank Greg and Andrea and
our guest Daniel Whitson, great podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe,
and of course we'll see you here tomorrow for more
(20:44):
puzzling puzzles. They will puzzle your puzzlingly.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Hey, puzzlers, it's Greg Pliska up from the Puzzle Lab,
and I mean puzzle Lab in the most scientific sense,
because our guests yesterday was Daniel Whitson, and he played
a game with us in which aliens describe things on
Earth that have the initials E T.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
And the extracritic clue.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That AJ gave you was this. Humans mistakenly refer to
the Kohala organism as a bear. It is not a bear,
but The koala does consume this plant as its main diet,
and that, of course, is the eucalyptus tree e. T.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Eucalyptus tree.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Thanks for playing.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
We'll catch you here next time for more puzzles that
will puzzle you puzzlingly
Hello puzzlers. A quick announcement, The Puzzler is doing a
live show in New York City and we'd love for
you to come. It's October seven at six thirty pm
and an awesome venue called Caveat. There will be stories, puzzles, prizes.
It's part of the Cheerful Earful Podcast Festival. We love
(00:23):
a good rhyming title here at the Puzzler. Please check
the show notes for a link to tickets. Now on
with the show, Hello Puzzlers, I thought maybe this time
we could start with a warm up puzzle today. I
am looking for a four letter word. It's a word
that can follow sausage, gab or October, A four letter
(00:50):
word that comes after sausage, gab or October. That puzzle
is from Andrea Show for Senior Puzzler. Thanks Andrea, the
answer and more puzzling goodness. Up to the break, Hello puzzlers,
Welcome back to The Puzzler Podcast. The upbeat feedback at
(01:13):
the start of your chat GPT puzzle response, I am
your host, AJ Jacobs. I'm here, of course, with Chief
Puzzle Officer Greg Fliska. Greg. Before the break, we had
a little warm up puzzle. We asked listeners, what is
a flour letter word that can follow sausage gap or October.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
You know, when I think October, I think October surprise. Ah, right,
that's sort of the thing that's going to happen right
before the election that's going to change everything. But there's
no gab surprise. But you're looking for Fest as in
October Fest, gab Fest and sausage Fest, which is like
(01:55):
a sausage.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Party or just a fun little movie with that's.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Right there, we go, Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
By the way, this this little mini puzzle made me think.
A couple of weeks ago, we did the hardest easiest
quiz where we said, like, who is far in advance
to Well, one of the questions I didn't include is
when is Octoberfest and you're in Germany because it actually
(02:28):
starts in September. I think the majority of it is
into September. If you look at the dates and lead
into there you go. But whatever month it is. We
are delighted to have our guest today and his name
is Daniel Whitson. He's a professor of physics and astronomy
at the University of California, Irvine. He is host of
(02:51):
a great podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe that he
hosts with biologist Kelly Wiener Smith, and he has been
talking science with us for the last day.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Welcome back, Daniel, thanks very much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Of course, Now, yesterday we talked a bit about what
science is and one of the things, correct me if
I'm wrong. Not a professional, but it's a lot about
noticing patterns, trying to discern the signal from the noise.
So that's correct, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, lots of patterns out there in the universe, and
we're often looking for them. They're often really helpful clues
to figure out what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah. In fact, in one of your episodes I Loved You,
had a live recording of these scientists listening to the
first pulsar that they discovered, and it was just very
cool to hear that aha moment in real time. Now
they were British, so instead of being like, holy affing crap,
(03:57):
this is right, they were like, oh, it's that interesting look.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
About bleeding pulse.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
It's a very fun snapshot because usually discoveries are gradual
and you have to overcome doubt and uncertainty very gradually.
Before you convince yourself it's real. But that's one of
the rare moments when the evidence was so clear and
so crisp and so obvious that they can make a
discovery in real time. And this is before podcasting. They
happen to accidentally be recording themselves and so we have
(04:27):
audio of that moment. It's really incredibly lucky. That's magical.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It's magical, and it reminds me of the you know what,
you hope The process of solving a puzzle is too
You're working, you're looking for patterns, you're trying to, you know,
tease out the meaning and there's that aha moment when
something clicks and you realize what's going on.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
That's the ideal, you.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Know, right, that's what's going to happen right now. Daniel, Oh, yeah,
that's right. We've got a pattern recognition puzzle. Do you
know do you ever play the Connections in The New
York Times? Yeah, well, this is our version of Connections
with an audio spin. Actually we played it for the
(05:09):
first time. We gave it to win A Loo, the
creator of Connections, when she was a guest. So the
idea is I'm going to give I'm going to play
you a short clip of three sounds, okay, and it's
your job to figure out the connection. I'll give you
an example. Okay, so this is just an example one.
If I played these following sounds, what might this be
(05:47):
I wanted to get to anywhere? Okay, So those all
have something in common, which might be.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
They're not all Ozzy Osbourne.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Very good.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, you had a bus, a train, the car, so
they all have some kind of transportation.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
That is exactly right. Okay, so are you ready? We
got one, we'll count that. We'll count that Cordo.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You get a free pass on one of the other ones.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's right, that's precisely it. All right, good, Here we
go with number two. Use your hypothesis, make a hypothesis,
and then look for evidence on what connects these three
songs people people who need people? Right, Okay, there are
(07:08):
your three clues. Do you have a hypothesis?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
The first one I didn't recognize, but is people needing people?
Second one was definitely Bob Dylan like a rolling stone.
So then I was thinking maybe it's about personal connections.
But the last one was Madonna and Vogue, and so
now I'm thinking maybe it's songs that are also magazine
(07:32):
titles Vogue, rolling Stone, and People.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
You are correct, that is exactly the right hypothesis. That's right,
People and rolling Stone and Vogue, which are all still
in print unlike many magazines, so it all works. And People,
I think that was a funny girls. All right, I
got another one for you. Are you ready for this one?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I'm so ready. In case you haven't heard of this game,
the idea is that any actor, alive or dead, can
(08:19):
be connected to me through our work in six steps
or less. Advertising is based on one thing, happiness.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Okay, there you go. There are your three clues any
hypotheses for that one? Do you can you identify any
of them?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
First one I didn't recognize at all. Second one, I
guess is Kevin Bacon talking about six degrees of separation,
how everybody's connected to Kevin Bacon. And the last one
sounded like a clip from a movie? Was it maybe
Andy Garcia?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
I couldn't know it was.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
It was actually a TV show, a TV show about advertising,
a very uh in the nineteen.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Sixties, all right, so it must have been mad Men.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yes, And do you remember the name of the actor
who plays John Ham Okay, so.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
It's and bacon and I don't know the first person,
but that needy answer to this question.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah, it's a song.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
It's a song called Paradise by the Dashboard Light by
a singer who had his stage name does have a
does have the word.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Meat in it?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Exactly meat Low.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You were so closed it was either going to be
Meet Loaf or Turkey Burger.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
So the Great Turkey Burger.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah that is fun. So yeah, I guess you are
younger than me and Greg that you don't know that song.
All right, I got two more for you. Are you ready?
Speaker 4 (09:53):
I'm ready? Truth is? I am iron man.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
I have a dream, but one day this nation will
rise up, live out the true meaning.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
Of its cream. That was Mistivu Chancels, Mistival Jangles Jangles.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
There it is, there, it is. I'm guessing the third
one it might be before your time, but maybe the
first two you were recognized.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Oh well, the third one is before my time. But
I know it because I'm not an ignoramus. You know
that's okay, Sammy Davis Junior right les And before that,
oh no, I've forgotten it. But the first one was
Robert Downey. I have a dream, right, so Martin Luther
(11:04):
King junior. So the connection is they're all juniors.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
You got it. Look at that. It did not even
present a challenge for you.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
It's helpful because I have a junior at home now
in high school, so I have junior in the brain.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Oh interesting, Yeah, all right, I got one more for you.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I'm okay by being I'm dye everything.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
I mean, you know what I almost did like a
man in the uniform.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
That one fit you.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Grand I'll up sometimes to me, I.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Serve at the pleasure of the President of the United States.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, I serve at the pleasure of the president.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I serve with the pleasure of President Bartlett. Okay, there
you go. There are your three do you hypotheses?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I'm guessing it's gonna be something about West because the
last one was a clip from the West Wing.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
I think very good.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So you only got one, but you nailed it.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And the first one was maybe was that that animated
cartoon with the mice go to America?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I'm not sure it was not.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
It was not it was it was instead West Side Stories,
West Side Story, those great movies, both great, very.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Distinctly different movies.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
The other one who Fible goes West. That yeah, blots
are slightly different, fewer people.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Die, and the goes West, you know, still live in
the same place in my brain.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
So there you go.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And the middle one was the great May West.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
That's right, May West sometimes but it was interesting. She
didn't she didn't actually say that she come see me,
won't you. I mean it was so it is. It's
sort of like play it again, Sam, the famous quote
from Casablanca that was never set. He said, play at Sam,
(13:12):
play it once for something like that. Uh, well, you
did it.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Your listeners can't see you, so they don't realize how
young you look. But you guys are much older than
you look because the references. These references are from deep
in the last century.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
We're actually one hundred and forty years old each.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I did my best to phrase that as a compliment.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
You failed, but thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I was too young for Maywest. I was not like
at the Nickelodeon watching Maywest with my zoot suit or whatever.
But yes, you did great. You did great despite the
vintage of some of the clips. So I did have
(13:58):
before you go, since we have a bonus, i's scientists
on here, I have to say I am troubled by
this anti science feeling that I'm sensing in the United States.
What can we do to boost science and make people
realize how great science is.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yeah, I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I'm concerned that people feel like science isn't accessible or
that's not for them. And I think the best way
to share science with people to make them feel connected
to it is to help them feel like they're part
of it and it's for them. Science is just you know,
by the people, for the people, and of the people,
and so you know, on my podcast, Daniel and Kelly's
(14:42):
Extraordinary Universe, we try to break science down in a
way that is accessible, because in the end, science is
just people, you know, it's just people like you and me.
We're just curious people trying to understand the nature of
the universe, and so we don't need to have the
separation between the public and the scientists. Trying to break
down that wall a little bit and make people feel like,
(15:03):
you know, we're all just one happy family.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah. I mean, we're having some spats right now.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
But every family does right well.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It also seems to me a little bit, Daniel, that
the thing that scientists do so well right which is
investigate and learn and question and reinvestigate and relearn and requestion.
Somehow becomes a tool for people to say, well, scientists
got it wrong one hundred years ago, so they must
have it wrong now. It's that the search, the curiosity,
(15:36):
and the continual search to go deeper has ended up
kind of flipping people in the wrong direction.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, right, Well, you have this awkward situation where you know,
science is never fully settled.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
It's an ongoing conversation.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
But then sometimes somebody comes to you and they say, like, look,
an asteroid is coming towards the Earth, what do we do?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Ask you?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Right, And the scientists have to provide an answer, and
the policymakers have to make a decision, and so at
some point you want to engage the discussion and other
points you want to like, well, we got to pick
something to do here, right, So you know, it's awkward,
and I think it's important that we you know, the
science is informing policy but not dictating, because in the end,
you know, somebody who elected representatives going to be the
(16:15):
one to decide like, are we nuke in the asteroid?
Are we all you know, just hiding in bunkers or what?
But you want that person to be informed by our
best current understanding of the options and what might happen. Yeah,
that's great, well said, Well said.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
And you quote in your book on aliens that's coming
out soon. You quote Carl Sagan, who's a hero of mine,
and one of my favorite things that he said was
that the secret is this exquisite balance. This is a paraphrase,
but this balance between two conflicting needs. The skepticism of
(16:54):
every hypothesis, so real scrutiny that's on the one hand,
and then an openness to new ideas, like, yeah, read
that science sometimes is weird, sometimes the truth is weird.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Absolutely, And you know, I talk about Carl Sagan in
my book, but mostly actually to disagree with him, because
I think he was a little too optimistic. You know,
he tried to communicate with aliens. He was asked, hey, Carl,
would you design something we could put on this probe
we're sending out into deep space that maybe in a
(17:29):
billion years some aliens will receive and try to write
something that they could understand. Like what a challenge. And
you know, I don't mean to criticize him. I think
they gave him like two weeks to come up with
an answer, and he did his best. He tried to
describe like the hydrogen atom in terms of symbols, you know,
because he's like, I'm not going to write something He's
he's going to try to pull away all the cultural
(17:50):
apparatus that we have, and so he used these symbols
to describe a hydrogen atom. But you know, I think
that there's a lot more culture in those symbols than
he expected. Interesting, and I think it's probably impossible if
aliens for them to know what Carl was thinking.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Right, Although he is very pro alien. One of my
favorite insights of his is that in Star Wars at
the end there's an award ceremony and Leya and Hans
Solo and Luke get these metals.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Chewbacca they just toss him a dog treat after the ceremony.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Is over or something.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Very alienist.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, well, I'm also pro alien, which is where I
wrote this whole book. Do Aliens speak physics? Where we
try to ask what would aliens think about the universe?
Do they solve puzzles the same way we do? Do
they accept the same answers and they're looking at the
universe the same way? So I had a lot of
fun writing it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, it's really interesting. And what is what is your answer,
yes they do or no they don't.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
The answer is probably that aliens are likely much more
alien than we can expect. You know, we have this
one example, and we don't even really know where our
biases are, and when aliens arrive, we'll discover, Oh my gosh,
we never thought you could be like that, or you
could think this way, the way like before Starbucks took
over the world, you could travel around the world and
have coffee in different places and it was always weird
(19:18):
and you're like, what keep the grounds in it? M,
that's actually good? Or you know sheep's milk. I never
tried that, and it would blow your mind and make
you realize that you thought your life was the only
way to live. And so I hope when the aliens
arrive they blow our scientific minds realizing that, oh there
are different questions we never even thought to ask, or
you know, the answers are completely different from the kinds
(19:40):
of answers we even anticipated.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's either that or there's going to be Starbucks on
every plant.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
One of those. Exactly. Well, thank you, Daniel, We loved
having you, and I actually I do have an extra
credit for the folks at home. So listen to these
sound clips and tell me what do they have in common.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
I'm not a big fat panda.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I'm the big fat panda.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I am Bibby Lepi your novel.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Come back tomorrow to find out what the connection is.
And in the meantime, if you want even more puzzles,
and why wouldn't you check out our Instagram feed at
Hello puzzlers, I want to thank Greg and Andrea and
our guest Daniel Whitson, great podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe,
and of course we'll see you here tomorrow for more
(20:44):
puzzling puzzles. They will puzzle your puzzlingly.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Hey, puzzlers, it's Greg Pliska up from the Puzzle Lab,
and I mean puzzle Lab in the most scientific sense,
because our guests yesterday was Daniel Whitson, and he played
a game with us in which aliens describe things on
Earth that have the initials E T.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
And the extracritic clue.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
That AJ gave you was this. Humans mistakenly refer to
the Kohala organism as a bear. It is not a bear,
but The koala does consume this plant as its main diet,
and that, of course, is the eucalyptus tree e. T.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Eucalyptus tree.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Thanks for playing.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
We'll catch you here next time for more puzzles that
will puzzle you puzzlingly
Hosts And Creators
Greg Pliska
A.J. Jacobs
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