May 8, 2025 • 21 mins
Hello, Puzzlers! Puzzling with us today: producer Jody Avirgan! Make sure to check out his new podcast "Summer Album/Winter Album"!
Join host A.J. Jacobs and his guests as they puzzle–and laugh–their way through new spins on old favorites, like anagrams and palindromes, as well as quirky originals such as “Ask AI” and audio rebuses.
Subscribe to The Puzzler podcast wherever you get your podcasts!
"The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs" is distributed by iHeartPodcasts and is a co-production with Neuhaus Ideas.
Our executive producers are Neely Lohmann and Adam Neuhaus of Neuhaus Ideas, and Lindsay Hoffman of iHeart Podcasts.
The show is produced by Jody Avirgan and Brittani Brown of Roulette Productions.
Our Chief Puzzle Officer is Greg Pliska. Our associate producer is Andrea Schoenberg.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. What do
these phrases have in common? Into action in the city,
by the wayside, and of our discontent? So those are
four phrases into action in the city, by the wayside
of our discontent. What do they have in common? They
(00:22):
are all prepositional phrases, that's true, but there is something
notable that precedes them. The answer and more puzzling goodness
after the break. Welcome back to the Puzzler podcast, The
long Reach but tane lighter for your puzzle. Weber Grill.
(00:46):
I am your host, AJ Jacobs, and I'm here, of
course with chief puzzle Officer Greg Kliska. Greg. Before the break,
we asked what these prepositional phrases had in common, into
action in the city, by the wayside of our discontent?
Any thoughts I do have thoughts?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I know what the answer is. Two of them are
being used in the usage of the group of four
and the other two or not. So it's spring into action,
some are in the city, which fall by the wayside,
and winter of our discontent, and so the summer in
the winter phrases are actually about the seasons. But spring
(01:25):
and fall are being used as vertus.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
That is correct, I really tried. I mean summer can
be used as a noun, sort of like someone.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Who adds adds things up.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, winter is a tough one. Winter is a tough one.
But yes, you are right. It was a fifty to
fifty and as you said, spring it to action the
common phrase some are in the city loving spoonful song
which Greg will now sing.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It's actually a track on my CD as well, which
can be found on iTunes if you go look for it.
So when the city was a dance piece, I did
that recorded, so you know, I'm just saying there's some
other and did a song with that name, but that's
not the important.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
One understood, Uh. Fallow by the wayside another phrase, and
Winter of our discontent a line from Shakespeare's Richard the
Third I believe one of the first two lines, or
the first line. Anyway. I bring all this up because
our guest today is host of a new podcast that
is about two of those four seasons. I'm talking about,
(02:22):
Jody Averragan, host of the excellent music podcast Summer Album,
Winter Album.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Welcome Jody, Thank you, j And you know, and I
know we all know those people who talk about I summer,
you know, use it as well, but the real posh
ones also talk about I winter in So I don't
have anything to do that, right, right?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Or what about I autumn autumn?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
You are in truly elite circles if you are talking
to people who are talking about how they like to
autumn in the cape.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Four places to Go, and you may mix them among
the serisons.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, so, Jody, you your podcast a hilarious and intriguing premise.
Would you tell the listeners what it is?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Well, the premise, which I'm sure you will all agree
on without any follow up questions, is that all albums
ever made are either summer albums or winter albums. And
in the podcast, I am my co host Craig Finn,
who is a fantastic musician lead singer of the band
The Whole Study, one of my favorite bands, also just
a really thoughtful person about music. He and I discuss
(03:27):
some of our favorite albums of all time, and we
each are arguing aside summer or winter, and we just
kind of use it as a lens through which to
try and kind of discuss and appreciate some of our
favorite records.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Love it well, we have lots of questions what makes
a summer album, what makes a winter album? But we
are a puzzle podcast, so we're going to do our
puzzle first. One thing before that, full disclosure. Jody, in
addition to hosting his own podcasts with a plural, that's
a plural, is also a producer on The Puzzler, So
(04:02):
he is in the Puzzler family. We're lucky to have him.
Here's the Kevin Bacon of podcasts. There is no one
in podcasting who does not know Joey. He's worked with everyone.
He did five thirty eight podcasts This day in Esoteric
political History.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I appreciate that, AJ, But it is the Puzzlers one
of my favorite things that I get to work on.
And we should give a shout out to Brittany and Claire,
who are producers who work with me and then with
all of us to make this sound really good. And
let's let's see will they edit this out. Brittany and
Claire are two of the best podcast producers in the world.
Let's see if that stays.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
They cut that or not.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, I think they should keep it.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
AJ. Can I say one thing about the about the
Summer Winter Show? Though before before we got in, just
because I know we're gonna talk about later. But you know,
I've had the spirit of a J. Jacobs in my
head a little bit while doing this, because there is
no one who loves a kind of arbitrary bit taken
to a real extreme more than you, and I've kind
of you know, that's sort of the spirit of the show.
(05:01):
It's it's it's ultimately a way to talk about music
we love, but I really love also, just like the
insistence upon the bitch at the premise into the ground and.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
The debate format, it's got to be a debate format,
one versus the other.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yes, totally non overlapping. Yes, well it is. It is
a great bit, and you have taken it as far
well you haven't because you hopefully you'll have several seasons
to continue taking it far. So this game is going
to be a friendly competition between two Puzzler family members,
(05:39):
both of them aforementioned. We've got Jody Averrigan on one
side and Greg Pliska on the other.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
All right, and I formally object to this.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
You can versus will be wasted air, But sure, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I mean, you're pitying me. It gets it gets the
puzzle master.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Well, well, listen, you've seen the masked singer. They have
like basketball players up against professional singers, same thing.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
You know what it's actually like playing ping pong against
Will Shartz. You would think puzzles against Will Shorts, which
is also daunting, of course, because he is the puzzle
master extraordinaire. But he's a really good table tennis player.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
All right, Well, despite this being patently unfair, we're gonna
go ahead with it and Lee are gonna play a
little game that's a spin on categories. In this game,
I'm gonna give you both a category. So, for instance,
I might say bands musical groups, and you two will
take turns naming something in that category that includes one
(06:43):
of the four seasons spring, summer, fall, or winter. Autumn
is also allowed, so Greg might start. I'll say, let's
start with Greg. He might say five seconds of Summer.
Then it's great. Then it's Jody's turn. Jody, Summer's taken.
So now you have to choose from fall, winter, or spring.
You might say Fallout Boy, where play is allowed. Then
(07:04):
it's back to Greg. If anyone gets stuck, the other
person gets a point and we go to the next category.
All right, here we go. We're gonna start with the
category of movies, movies with seasons in the title. Let's
start with Jody, since he is the guest. I'll take
a movie with winter, summer, spring, fall, or autumn in
(07:24):
the title.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, so I mean this is really alliding it but
falling down.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Falling down. All right, so it goes to you, Greg.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I'm gonna go for the Low Hanging Fruit. Five hundred
days of Summer, well done, five featuring hustler guest Joseph Gordon.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Levitt, Right exactly, all right, back to you, Jody.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Winter's Bone.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
That is a good line.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I'm thinking of lion in winter. So that leaves us
with spring.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
That is it? That is it? You, guys?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Is there a Spring Awakening movie?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I have it down. I think it might have been
in a TV movie, but it.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Is in there.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I count it. I think I count it. We'll give
it to you. There's also Palm Springs, their spring Break,
their spring Breaker spring Breakers.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So spring Break is a good guy.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
All right, so you're tied. You're tied.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Excited.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Let's go to the next category. Celebrities who have a
season in their name. It could be first name, could
be last name could be hidden within the name. I
will not take sound alikes like Anna Winter.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
The editor of I was ready with Anna Winter and
Suzanne Summon. There you go.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I am shutting you down before. All right, well let's
start with I guess Greg you are starting this right?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Okay, I'm up first. I'm gonna go with Jonathan Winters
or Shelley Winters, either of the whole lot of window
you know, celebrity.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Right sure, Comedian Jonathan Winters, actor Shelley Winners. All right,
where you're up?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
First? Springsteen, that's there.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That's a good one. Yeah, it's a good one. Or
Rick Springfield, Yeah, Dusty Springfield or Buffalo Springfield. Again, Buffalo
is not a person, but Dusty was. Okay. How about
Summer Sanders.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well done? She is like an athlete, right, an Olympian swimmer, swimmer? Right, okay,
now this is interesting. Jody fall is a challenge. Fall
is the toughest.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Well, I got it, I got it? He did? Does
Jimmy Fallon count Jimmy Fallen count?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Nicely done? You did. The only other two I could
come up with was Autumn Reeser, who is an actor
actress in the OC and Okay, Gabriel Fallopio, for whom
the Phillippian Tube is named.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Oh yeah, if that's the kind of celebrity or not.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
But you know his name is certain circles many times. Yeah.
All right, Well you're still tied. We may have to
go to a tiebreaker. I've got one more category. Uh actually,
it looks like you will. Because you both know music.
I decided to go with songs, songs with seasons in
the title. So Jody, you begin.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I will take one of the thousands of different versions
of Summertime that have been produced over the year.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Very nice, very nice, and you, of course have to
sing the song.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Well it's summertime. There you go.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I actually nice.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I'm going to say hazy shade of Winter.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Good one.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Well, Arim has a song called fall on Me.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So we're left with spring I got it. I got
it from from the musical the Producers Springtime for Hitler Classic.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Absolutely well done. All right, well listen you guys. You
did tie. You got all both got one hundred percent
or zero course points. Congratulations, Jody, it did great. Now,
speaking of seasons we mentioned earlier, your podcast is about
(11:06):
two of them. So how did you come up with
the idea of summer album, winter album.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well, you know, I've always wanted to host the music show.
I mean, music kind of has been by the most
important thing in my life over the years, and the
thing I've kind of thought about the most that had
been interested in talking about the most. But this idea
of seasonal albums in particular, it kind of crystallized for
me actually in a conversation I was having with a musician.
So there's this band called The War on Drugs that
(11:33):
I'm a huge fan of, and they released an album
a few years ago called Lost in the Dream and
it came out in one of these just incredibly cold
New York's cold snaps. I think it was called the
like bomb Cyclone or hit something name where it was
just like, you know, frigid temperatures descending from Canada for
a week. And I was listening to that album over
(11:54):
and over and over in that time. So it is,
you know, just embedded with me as a quintessential frigid
free album. And I've then met a member of the
War on Drugs and I mentioned this to him and
he was like, He's like, that's funny because when we
were making that album, all we could talk about was
how it was the quintessential summer driving with the top
down warm Weather record, and I just I looked at
(12:17):
them and I said, no, I know you made this album,
but you're wrong. You know, it's a winter record. And
I just I was just so struck by how we
could have such differing opinions. And obviously he, you know,
made the record, and so I just think it's an
interesting lens through which to try and get at our
experience with music, and it sort of brings up all
(12:37):
sorts of interesting experiences and angles by which you can
break music down, you know, is it your personal experience?
Isn't something inherent in the record itself? Is it? You know?
About how it was received? And so it's just it's
just a nice little portal through which to kind of
end up talking about albums we love.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
What have you got against Spring and Fall? How come
they don't get an album?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
You gotta pick too? It's too Every once in a
while someone on the show will be like, you know,
I got to confess that their voice will get low
because we always have a guest on as well to
kind of help us dig into the album, and they'll
be like, I kind of think it's a spring album.
We immediately shut that down, Go get your own podcast. Yeah,
you can have those two, but I like an arbitrary binary.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Well, and I will say one of the things that's
fun about the podcast is that it's you guys against
each other. You each take a debating position on which
it is you and Craig, your co host, And I'm curious,
how do you pick who gets which side? Is it arbitrary?
Does one of you get to go first and select no.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So when I first kind of got linked up with
Craig as the co host of this, I actually made
a spreadsheet of about fifty different albums, and then there
was one, you know, fifty albums and that I loved
and thought would be interesting to talk about. And one
column was Jody, one column was Craig, and they had
a little dropped down and then you it was like Summer, Winter,
if I know, And it was shocking how many of
(13:57):
them we just naturally disagreed on. So every once in
a while we'll kind of have to like say, Okay,
I'll argue Winter for this one, or I'll argue Summer
for this one. But generally I have found Craig and
I had very similar musical tastes and we're talking about albums.
We've thought about it a lot, but for some reason
we come down on different sides of the equation. So
it's been pretty natural and it's been really fun, by
the way, to write these little arguments at the beginning.
(14:19):
I mean, that's kind of one of my favorite parts,
is like these little essays and arguments that really kind
of force you to.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Dig in and what give us just a couple of
examples of ones that you are sure or winter and
he is sure summer or well.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I mean, the one that caused the most sort of
controversy among the audience was we did Paul Simon's Graceland
a couple of weeks ago and we had Malcolm Glad
what was the guest for that, And it was really
really lovely conversation. But you know, I went into that
arguing summer and Craig was arguing Winter, and I was like, oh,
I got this in the bag. I mean, come on,
this is an album full of South African rhythms and
(14:55):
zydeco and it's got you can call me l and
you know, and then I got like and Glad Weell
did his Glad Weel thing. Before I knew it. He
was kind of leading me into mind traps and kind
of like talking me out of it, and I was like,
oh my god, I can't believe that I might lose this.
But again, I mean, I think it shows the power
of the different ways in which you can talk about
(15:16):
your experience with a record you love. And I don't know, Greg,
I mean, you know you're you're a musician. I've You've
actually worked on some albums that I've wanted to maybe
do on the show someday. But like, when you think about.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It, come be the guests please, that would love that.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I mean, you know those hem albums are are winter
for me, but you know I could see them being
summer for others. But do you tend to think about
music through your personal experience first, or do you think
there's something actually in the instrumentation and production and lyrics
of us of an album that kind of tilted in
one direction to the other.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
This is the question that makes the podcast interesting, right,
It's all of those things. I do think as a composer,
I am creating music that expresses feelings or thoughts that
are you know that I relate to, and I'm often
surprised when someone hears it and has a different reaction.
(16:10):
Although I'm not surprised. I recognize that's the nature of
human experience. But someone will say, God, that's really complicated
and scary, and I'll think, no, it's like that was
friendly and welcoming.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
No, And I think, I mean, you know, in talking
to musicians, one of the things I'm about to realize
is that artists also had that same experience with their
own songs. Over time. You'll write a song in a moment,
put it out, and then ten years later it could
mean something very different to you, just because you're you know,
once it's out in the world, you're sort of experiencing
it the same way that anyone else would, even though
you happen to write it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Jody, does this apply to podcasts as well? Are you
a summer winter podcast? And what about the puzzle? Is
that a summer winter pod?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
That's a really good question. I would imagine that podcasts
are almost entirely about your experience listening to it, and
so if people discovered the puzzler when they're you know,
on a vacation, some are warm, then it will be
Forever a warm weather summer podcast. You can I'm giving
(17:11):
you the rights to the spinoff.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Ah fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think we're a spring podcast. I think we are
forever the renewal and the coming back to life and
celebrating nature and people in all their diversity and.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Wonderfulness beautifully sad and spring has many definitions, so it's
good for wordplay. Jump the little coil in your mattress,
all right? So yes, Jody, since this is the puzzler,
I thought, are there a couple of albums that you
and Craig agree on or that are sort of universally
(17:46):
regarded as winter summer and you could throw them out
to me and Greg and we could try to guess
which is the correct answer.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
So look, I do think that you can have any
experience with almost any album. But I think there are
some albums where they come up as possibilities and their
albums we love and have lots to say about them.
We're like, eh, you know, that probably feels like it's
tilted a little too much in one direction to the other.
So I mean, I will say, we want to talk
about some hip hop albums and but it's a little tough.
(18:14):
I mean like it's it would be pretty hard to argue, like,
you know, any Snoop Dog albums or Tupac albums aren't
summer summer even so, like West Coast hip hop feels
very summer. East Coast hip hop to me, like Illmatic
or even some jay Z albums, they just feel like
Wu Tang albums. They feel like dead of winter. You know,
(18:36):
you got your timberlands on you. You can see your breath,
you know. So I think if we do do hip
hop albums, it'll have to be like some Chicago rappers,
or maybe some outcast albums kind of are interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, I was going to say outcasts would be into it.
Some Kendrick albums would be exactly too right.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And I will say one of the fun things about
the podcast is at the end you ask the artist
for their take.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah. We did a Modest Mouse album. We got to
Modest Mouse. We did a Vampire Weekend album. We got
to Vampire Weekend. Week done a Bound Sebastian album, We
got to Bounce Sebastian. Paul Simon and Joni Mitchell were
long shots all along. We got Inner Circle with Paul Simon.
I feel like we've got a good sense Joni is
notoriously you know, very hard to reach, and I would
(19:20):
like to think she would also just think this was
the dumbest question in the world, and even if she
gave us an answer, she'd be like, what you know, Mitchell.
So I don't think we're going to get to Jonie.
But in those cases we did try and always have
a final verdict, and in those cases we try and
get as close as possible. And so we do have
a verdict from one of Joni Mitchell's biographers who is
(19:42):
very close, a little mind melded with her, and that
feels like, okay, she's going to lay down a final
d awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Well, everyone listen. It's available wherever podcasts are downloaded. And
thank you Jody for being part of the Puzzler family
and for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Thank you. This isn't a real treat.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And if you like the show, you can also check
out our Instagram feed which is at Hello Puzzlers, And
we'll meet here tomorrow for more puzzling puzzles that will
puzzle you puzzlingly.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Hey Puzzlers, it's Chief puzzle Officer Greg Kliska here with
the extra credit answer from our previous show. Dan Levitton
joined us and we talked about all the instruments Dan plays,
and I hit a ton of instruments inside of sentences.
We had a whole bunch of these. I hope you
enjoyed them, and for your extra credit, I gave you
a double. This is a sentence that has two two
(20:38):
musical instruments hid it inside it. Here's your sentence that
postman doling out stamps has such a boring suburban job,
but at least he can listen to bluegrass all day long.
That postman doling out stamps has such a boring suburban job.
The bluegrass bit is a clue to the two instruments
(20:59):
that are central to bluegrass music. The first one is
hidden inside postman doling and it is the mandolin. And
the second one is hidden inside suburban job, and it
is the banjo. So imagine a little banj mandolin bluegrass
sending you off, and we'll see you tomorrow for some
(21:21):
more puzzling puzzles that will puzzle you puzzlingly.
Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. What do
these phrases have in common? Into action in the city,
by the wayside, and of our discontent? So those are
four phrases into action in the city, by the wayside
of our discontent. What do they have in common? They
(00:22):
are all prepositional phrases, that's true, but there is something
notable that precedes them. The answer and more puzzling goodness
after the break. Welcome back to the Puzzler podcast, The
long Reach but tane lighter for your puzzle. Weber Grill.
(00:46):
I am your host, AJ Jacobs, and I'm here, of
course with chief puzzle Officer Greg Kliska. Greg. Before the break,
we asked what these prepositional phrases had in common, into
action in the city, by the wayside of our discontent?
Any thoughts I do have thoughts?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I know what the answer is. Two of them are
being used in the usage of the group of four
and the other two or not. So it's spring into action,
some are in the city, which fall by the wayside,
and winter of our discontent, and so the summer in
the winter phrases are actually about the seasons. But spring
(01:25):
and fall are being used as vertus.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
That is correct, I really tried. I mean summer can
be used as a noun, sort of like someone.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Who adds adds things up.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, winter is a tough one. Winter is a tough one.
But yes, you are right. It was a fifty to
fifty and as you said, spring it to action the
common phrase some are in the city loving spoonful song
which Greg will now sing.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It's actually a track on my CD as well, which
can be found on iTunes if you go look for it.
So when the city was a dance piece, I did
that recorded, so you know, I'm just saying there's some
other and did a song with that name, but that's
not the important.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
One understood, Uh. Fallow by the wayside another phrase, and
Winter of our discontent a line from Shakespeare's Richard the
Third I believe one of the first two lines, or
the first line. Anyway. I bring all this up because
our guest today is host of a new podcast that
is about two of those four seasons. I'm talking about,
(02:22):
Jody Averragan, host of the excellent music podcast Summer Album,
Winter Album.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Welcome Jody, Thank you, j And you know, and I
know we all know those people who talk about I summer,
you know, use it as well, but the real posh
ones also talk about I winter in So I don't
have anything to do that, right, right?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Or what about I autumn autumn?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
You are in truly elite circles if you are talking
to people who are talking about how they like to
autumn in the cape.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Four places to Go, and you may mix them among
the serisons.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, so, Jody, you your podcast a hilarious and intriguing premise.
Would you tell the listeners what it is?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Well, the premise, which I'm sure you will all agree
on without any follow up questions, is that all albums
ever made are either summer albums or winter albums. And
in the podcast, I am my co host Craig Finn,
who is a fantastic musician lead singer of the band
The Whole Study, one of my favorite bands, also just
a really thoughtful person about music. He and I discuss
(03:27):
some of our favorite albums of all time, and we
each are arguing aside summer or winter, and we just
kind of use it as a lens through which to
try and kind of discuss and appreciate some of our
favorite records.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Love it well, we have lots of questions what makes
a summer album, what makes a winter album? But we
are a puzzle podcast, so we're going to do our
puzzle first. One thing before that, full disclosure. Jody, in
addition to hosting his own podcasts with a plural, that's
a plural, is also a producer on The Puzzler, So
(04:02):
he is in the Puzzler family. We're lucky to have him.
Here's the Kevin Bacon of podcasts. There is no one
in podcasting who does not know Joey. He's worked with everyone.
He did five thirty eight podcasts This day in Esoteric
political History.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I appreciate that, AJ, But it is the Puzzlers one
of my favorite things that I get to work on.
And we should give a shout out to Brittany and Claire,
who are producers who work with me and then with
all of us to make this sound really good. And
let's let's see will they edit this out. Brittany and
Claire are two of the best podcast producers in the world.
Let's see if that stays.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
They cut that or not.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, I think they should keep it.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
AJ. Can I say one thing about the about the
Summer Winter Show? Though before before we got in, just
because I know we're gonna talk about later. But you know,
I've had the spirit of a J. Jacobs in my
head a little bit while doing this, because there is
no one who loves a kind of arbitrary bit taken
to a real extreme more than you, and I've kind
of you know, that's sort of the spirit of the show.
(05:01):
It's it's it's ultimately a way to talk about music
we love, but I really love also, just like the
insistence upon the bitch at the premise into the ground and.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
The debate format, it's got to be a debate format,
one versus the other.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yes, totally non overlapping. Yes, well it is. It is
a great bit, and you have taken it as far
well you haven't because you hopefully you'll have several seasons
to continue taking it far. So this game is going
to be a friendly competition between two Puzzler family members,
(05:39):
both of them aforementioned. We've got Jody Averrigan on one
side and Greg Pliska on the other.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
All right, and I formally object to this.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
You can versus will be wasted air, But sure, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I mean, you're pitying me. It gets it gets the
puzzle master.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Well, well, listen, you've seen the masked singer. They have
like basketball players up against professional singers, same thing.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
You know what it's actually like playing ping pong against
Will Shartz. You would think puzzles against Will Shorts, which
is also daunting, of course, because he is the puzzle
master extraordinaire. But he's a really good table tennis player.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
All right, Well, despite this being patently unfair, we're gonna
go ahead with it and Lee are gonna play a
little game that's a spin on categories. In this game,
I'm gonna give you both a category. So, for instance,
I might say bands musical groups, and you two will
take turns naming something in that category that includes one
(06:43):
of the four seasons spring, summer, fall, or winter. Autumn
is also allowed, so Greg might start. I'll say, let's
start with Greg. He might say five seconds of Summer.
Then it's great. Then it's Jody's turn. Jody, Summer's taken.
So now you have to choose from fall, winter, or spring.
You might say Fallout Boy, where play is allowed. Then
(07:04):
it's back to Greg. If anyone gets stuck, the other
person gets a point and we go to the next category.
All right, here we go. We're gonna start with the
category of movies, movies with seasons in the title. Let's
start with Jody, since he is the guest. I'll take
a movie with winter, summer, spring, fall, or autumn in
(07:24):
the title.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, so I mean this is really alliding it but
falling down.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Falling down. All right, so it goes to you, Greg.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I'm gonna go for the Low Hanging Fruit. Five hundred
days of Summer, well done, five featuring hustler guest Joseph Gordon.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Levitt, Right exactly, all right, back to you, Jody.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Winter's Bone.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
That is a good line.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I'm thinking of lion in winter. So that leaves us
with spring.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
That is it? That is it? You, guys?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Is there a Spring Awakening movie?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I have it down. I think it might have been
in a TV movie, but it.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Is in there.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I count it. I think I count it. We'll give
it to you. There's also Palm Springs, their spring Break,
their spring Breaker spring Breakers.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So spring Break is a good guy.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
All right, so you're tied. You're tied.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Excited.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Let's go to the next category. Celebrities who have a
season in their name. It could be first name, could
be last name could be hidden within the name. I
will not take sound alikes like Anna Winter.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
The editor of I was ready with Anna Winter and
Suzanne Summon. There you go.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I am shutting you down before. All right, well let's
start with I guess Greg you are starting this right?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Okay, I'm up first. I'm gonna go with Jonathan Winters
or Shelley Winters, either of the whole lot of window
you know, celebrity.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Right sure, Comedian Jonathan Winters, actor Shelley Winners. All right,
where you're up?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
First? Springsteen, that's there.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That's a good one. Yeah, it's a good one. Or
Rick Springfield, Yeah, Dusty Springfield or Buffalo Springfield. Again, Buffalo
is not a person, but Dusty was. Okay. How about
Summer Sanders.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well done? She is like an athlete, right, an Olympian swimmer, swimmer? Right, okay,
now this is interesting. Jody fall is a challenge. Fall
is the toughest.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Well, I got it, I got it? He did? Does
Jimmy Fallon count Jimmy Fallen count?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Nicely done? You did. The only other two I could
come up with was Autumn Reeser, who is an actor
actress in the OC and Okay, Gabriel Fallopio, for whom
the Phillippian Tube is named.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Oh yeah, if that's the kind of celebrity or not.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
But you know his name is certain circles many times. Yeah.
All right, Well you're still tied. We may have to
go to a tiebreaker. I've got one more category. Uh actually,
it looks like you will. Because you both know music.
I decided to go with songs, songs with seasons in
the title. So Jody, you begin.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I will take one of the thousands of different versions
of Summertime that have been produced over the year.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Very nice, very nice, and you, of course have to
sing the song.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Well it's summertime. There you go.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I actually nice.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I'm going to say hazy shade of Winter.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Good one.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Well, Arim has a song called fall on Me.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So we're left with spring I got it. I got
it from from the musical the Producers Springtime for Hitler Classic.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Absolutely well done. All right, well listen you guys. You
did tie. You got all both got one hundred percent
or zero course points. Congratulations, Jody, it did great. Now,
speaking of seasons we mentioned earlier, your podcast is about
(11:06):
two of them. So how did you come up with
the idea of summer album, winter album.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well, you know, I've always wanted to host the music show.
I mean, music kind of has been by the most
important thing in my life over the years, and the
thing I've kind of thought about the most that had
been interested in talking about the most. But this idea
of seasonal albums in particular, it kind of crystallized for
me actually in a conversation I was having with a musician.
So there's this band called The War on Drugs that
(11:33):
I'm a huge fan of, and they released an album
a few years ago called Lost in the Dream and
it came out in one of these just incredibly cold
New York's cold snaps. I think it was called the
like bomb Cyclone or hit something name where it was
just like, you know, frigid temperatures descending from Canada for
a week. And I was listening to that album over
(11:54):
and over and over in that time. So it is,
you know, just embedded with me as a quintessential frigid
free album. And I've then met a member of the
War on Drugs and I mentioned this to him and
he was like, He's like, that's funny because when we
were making that album, all we could talk about was
how it was the quintessential summer driving with the top
down warm Weather record, and I just I looked at
(12:17):
them and I said, no, I know you made this album,
but you're wrong. You know, it's a winter record. And
I just I was just so struck by how we
could have such differing opinions. And obviously he, you know,
made the record, and so I just think it's an
interesting lens through which to try and get at our
experience with music, and it sort of brings up all
(12:37):
sorts of interesting experiences and angles by which you can
break music down, you know, is it your personal experience?
Isn't something inherent in the record itself? Is it? You know?
About how it was received? And so it's just it's
just a nice little portal through which to kind of
end up talking about albums we love.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
What have you got against Spring and Fall? How come
they don't get an album?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
You gotta pick too? It's too Every once in a
while someone on the show will be like, you know,
I got to confess that their voice will get low
because we always have a guest on as well to
kind of help us dig into the album, and they'll
be like, I kind of think it's a spring album.
We immediately shut that down, Go get your own podcast. Yeah,
you can have those two, but I like an arbitrary binary.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Well, and I will say one of the things that's
fun about the podcast is that it's you guys against
each other. You each take a debating position on which
it is you and Craig, your co host, And I'm curious,
how do you pick who gets which side? Is it arbitrary?
Does one of you get to go first and select no.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
So when I first kind of got linked up with
Craig as the co host of this, I actually made
a spreadsheet of about fifty different albums, and then there
was one, you know, fifty albums and that I loved
and thought would be interesting to talk about. And one
column was Jody, one column was Craig, and they had
a little dropped down and then you it was like Summer, Winter,
if I know, And it was shocking how many of
(13:57):
them we just naturally disagreed on. So every once in
a while we'll kind of have to like say, Okay,
I'll argue Winter for this one, or I'll argue Summer
for this one. But generally I have found Craig and
I had very similar musical tastes and we're talking about albums.
We've thought about it a lot, but for some reason
we come down on different sides of the equation. So
it's been pretty natural and it's been really fun, by
the way, to write these little arguments at the beginning.
(14:19):
I mean, that's kind of one of my favorite parts,
is like these little essays and arguments that really kind
of force you to.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Dig in and what give us just a couple of
examples of ones that you are sure or winter and
he is sure summer or well.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I mean, the one that caused the most sort of
controversy among the audience was we did Paul Simon's Graceland
a couple of weeks ago and we had Malcolm Glad
what was the guest for that, And it was really
really lovely conversation. But you know, I went into that
arguing summer and Craig was arguing Winter, and I was like, oh,
I got this in the bag. I mean, come on,
this is an album full of South African rhythms and
(14:55):
zydeco and it's got you can call me l and
you know, and then I got like and Glad Weell
did his Glad Weel thing. Before I knew it. He
was kind of leading me into mind traps and kind
of like talking me out of it, and I was like,
oh my god, I can't believe that I might lose this.
But again, I mean, I think it shows the power
of the different ways in which you can talk about
(15:16):
your experience with a record you love. And I don't know, Greg,
I mean, you know you're you're a musician. I've You've
actually worked on some albums that I've wanted to maybe
do on the show someday. But like, when you think about.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It, come be the guests please, that would love that.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I mean, you know those hem albums are are winter
for me, but you know I could see them being
summer for others. But do you tend to think about
music through your personal experience first, or do you think
there's something actually in the instrumentation and production and lyrics
of us of an album that kind of tilted in
one direction to the other.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
This is the question that makes the podcast interesting, right,
It's all of those things. I do think as a composer,
I am creating music that expresses feelings or thoughts that
are you know that I relate to, and I'm often
surprised when someone hears it and has a different reaction.
(16:10):
Although I'm not surprised. I recognize that's the nature of
human experience. But someone will say, God, that's really complicated
and scary, and I'll think, no, it's like that was
friendly and welcoming.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
No, And I think, I mean, you know, in talking
to musicians, one of the things I'm about to realize
is that artists also had that same experience with their
own songs. Over time. You'll write a song in a moment,
put it out, and then ten years later it could
mean something very different to you, just because you're you know,
once it's out in the world, you're sort of experiencing
it the same way that anyone else would, even though
you happen to write it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Jody, does this apply to podcasts as well? Are you
a summer winter podcast? And what about the puzzle? Is
that a summer winter pod?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
That's a really good question. I would imagine that podcasts
are almost entirely about your experience listening to it, and
so if people discovered the puzzler when they're you know,
on a vacation, some are warm, then it will be
Forever a warm weather summer podcast. You can I'm giving
(17:11):
you the rights to the spinoff.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Ah fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think we're a spring podcast. I think we are
forever the renewal and the coming back to life and
celebrating nature and people in all their diversity and.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Wonderfulness beautifully sad and spring has many definitions, so it's
good for wordplay. Jump the little coil in your mattress,
all right? So yes, Jody, since this is the puzzler,
I thought, are there a couple of albums that you
and Craig agree on or that are sort of universally
(17:46):
regarded as winter summer and you could throw them out
to me and Greg and we could try to guess
which is the correct answer.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
So look, I do think that you can have any
experience with almost any album. But I think there are
some albums where they come up as possibilities and their
albums we love and have lots to say about them.
We're like, eh, you know, that probably feels like it's
tilted a little too much in one direction to the other.
So I mean, I will say, we want to talk
about some hip hop albums and but it's a little tough.
(18:14):
I mean like it's it would be pretty hard to argue, like,
you know, any Snoop Dog albums or Tupac albums aren't
summer summer even so, like West Coast hip hop feels
very summer. East Coast hip hop to me, like Illmatic
or even some jay Z albums, they just feel like
Wu Tang albums. They feel like dead of winter. You know,
(18:36):
you got your timberlands on you. You can see your breath,
you know. So I think if we do do hip
hop albums, it'll have to be like some Chicago rappers,
or maybe some outcast albums kind of are interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, I was going to say outcasts would be into it.
Some Kendrick albums would be exactly too right.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And I will say one of the fun things about
the podcast is at the end you ask the artist
for their take.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Yeah. We did a Modest Mouse album. We got to
Modest Mouse. We did a Vampire Weekend album. We got
to Vampire Weekend. Week done a Bound Sebastian album, We
got to Bounce Sebastian. Paul Simon and Joni Mitchell were
long shots all along. We got Inner Circle with Paul Simon.
I feel like we've got a good sense Joni is
notoriously you know, very hard to reach, and I would
(19:20):
like to think she would also just think this was
the dumbest question in the world, and even if she
gave us an answer, she'd be like, what you know, Mitchell.
So I don't think we're going to get to Jonie.
But in those cases we did try and always have
a final verdict, and in those cases we try and
get as close as possible. And so we do have
a verdict from one of Joni Mitchell's biographers who is
(19:42):
very close, a little mind melded with her, and that
feels like, okay, she's going to lay down a final
d awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Well, everyone listen. It's available wherever podcasts are downloaded. And
thank you Jody for being part of the Puzzler family
and for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Thank you. This isn't a real treat.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And if you like the show, you can also check
out our Instagram feed which is at Hello Puzzlers, And
we'll meet here tomorrow for more puzzling puzzles that will
puzzle you puzzlingly.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Hey Puzzlers, it's Chief puzzle Officer Greg Kliska here with
the extra credit answer from our previous show. Dan Levitton
joined us and we talked about all the instruments Dan plays,
and I hit a ton of instruments inside of sentences.
We had a whole bunch of these. I hope you
enjoyed them, and for your extra credit, I gave you
a double. This is a sentence that has two two
(20:38):
musical instruments hid it inside it. Here's your sentence that
postman doling out stamps has such a boring suburban job,
but at least he can listen to bluegrass all day long.
That postman doling out stamps has such a boring suburban job.
The bluegrass bit is a clue to the two instruments
(20:59):
that are central to bluegrass music. The first one is
hidden inside postman doling and it is the mandolin. And
the second one is hidden inside suburban job, and it
is the banjo. So imagine a little banj mandolin bluegrass
sending you off, and we'll see you tomorrow for some
(21:21):
more puzzling puzzles that will puzzle you puzzlingly.
Hosts And Creators
Greg Pliska
A.J. Jacobs
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