January 10, 2024 • 43 mins
Joining Iyanla for a special one-on-one episode this week is YouTuber and relationship expert, Ace Metaphor. Not only does Iyanla respect his insight into relationships, but she also loves that he is a man who is finally telling the secret of why men who the things they do.
Do you want to be on the podcast? Follow Iyanla on social media for the latest call-in information! instagram & twitter: @IyanlaVanzant facebook: @DrIyanlaVanzant
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
I am Yamba.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I've been very open about the fact that I was
not always good at making my relationships work. I have
been divorced three times, twice from the same person. In
other words, I have seen a lot and failed a
lot in my relationships. So I am here to share
with you what I learned along the way because I
(00:24):
did take copious note. Welcome to The R Spot, a
production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio blessing In Greetings,
(00:45):
belleved This is the R Spot and I am im
the van zandt your host, your guide, a teacher for some,
and a soft place to fall for others. As we explore, examine,
investigate some of the most common and often mind boggling
complexities of relationships. I have a guest today. My guest
(01:09):
today is known to his one million listeners as Ace Metaphor.
He is the host of Tonight's Conversation on YouTube, where
he dives headfirst into some of the most challenging and
common relationship issues and fallacies. He identifies himself as a
bad boy turn good and I want to know exactly
(01:31):
what that means now. What attracted me to Ace were
some of the topics of his shows. He did a
show called do Big Girls Pay More Bills? He did
another one called True or False Men do not want
an independent woman? And one of my favorites, the bitter
(01:52):
Baby Daddy, is the deadbeat Daddy. So today I want
to talk to Ace about everything you and I I
want to know and want to ask a man about relationships.
Ace Metaphor, hostuff Tonight's Conversation, Ace, Welcome to the R Spot.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I am extremely honored to be here. I appreciate it
so much. Thank you so much for the invite. It
means a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You crack me up.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
First of all, you are what I call cold water
in your face, which I do sometimes when I'm working
with people when you got to say the same thing
over and over. But one of the reasons I want
to talk to you is, first of all, you're a youngest,
whole different generation. We have probably very different experiences of relationships,
and I really want to examine and explore some of
(02:43):
your concepts and the things that you say, because many
of the things that you said say in your conversation
I need to hear as an elder. I want to
start here, though you said in your bio it says
I'm a former bad guy turn in to a good guy.
Tell me what a bad guy is.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Honestly, because I get asked that question a lot. I
need to change my bio because I'm getting sick of
that quick no, but no, really, when I talk about
the things that I want people to take heed to,
it's from personal experience of being this type of man,
being somebody younger who wasn't very intentional, through dating someone
(03:27):
that was crafty with words, that was able to omit things,
but lead you to believe that I was.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Actually interested in relationships.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
So although I've gotten to this place where I've matured
as a man and learned self restraint in boundaries, which
is oddly important to learn as an adult. Before, though
I didn't necessarily have that, I turned myself bad in
terms of relationships, and even deeper than that situationships. There
were so many women when I was going through that
(03:54):
phase that I led on. I was that good guy
on paper, so obviously had attention, but I didn't have
intention on doing anything other than to be honest wasting time. Now,
I think, in self reflection, if I was forthcoming about
my intentions and I was an open book and I
let people know exactly what I wanted to do and
what I expected it'd be different. But being twenty three,
(04:16):
twenty four to twenty five, I did none of that.
But when I say bad, God mean in terms of that.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So you were careless with people's hearts for sure. You
were out of integrity with the people you went relationships with.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
You were dishonest.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And I'm saying these things not to retraumatize you, but
are you good to let me know some of.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
The things that we need to look for?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So as I go through your videos, a couple of
things that you said that I was like, oh my god,
we need to just put that in a cracker and
sell it.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Let's talk about standards, yes, because.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
That's one of the things we talk about, and that's
one of the things women have. And he don't live
up to my standards or lowers because that's what's available
to it.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So talk to us from a man's point of view
about standards.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
You know what this is a it's a tricky conversation, yes,
because people have different definitions of what standards actually mean. So,
like you have a pocket of people that think standards
are life lofty financial goals, what somebody looks like, and
that can be a I call that preferences, but to
some people, that's a finite stand okay for me. When
(05:29):
you think about relationships, one of the first standards I
think we should negotiate on is how someone treats us,
Because you can be in some with somebody who has
all these things on paper, but they treat you horribly
and so then you're still settling. So when it comes
to standards, it's how someone treats you, how they show
up for you, what person do they bring out of you?
(05:51):
Do they bring the best out of you or the
worst out of you? Is this person understanding? And so
those are the things that I think we shouldn't negotiate on,
but often times we will because some of our preferences
are a little bit more shiny. It's easier to be
attracted to the shiny things, so we get distracted.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
So that's how we define it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I totally agree. I think the standards is one thing.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Preferences is another. But there are so many women who
don't want to be alone, so they overlook their standards.
And when you did that YouTube video, I put a
comment in the thread that said, so many women have
been treated so poorly for so long they don't even
(06:37):
know what good treatment talks about. How do you, as
a man, or how do men learn what it means
or what it is to treat someone good.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So I can only speak for myself, and I'm gonna
give you a cold, honest answer. Most times men learn
through fumbling the right woman, it's unfortunately, because you should
learn by, you know, educate yourself, picking up a book,
maybe going to a seminar, maybe talking to a professional,
not watching dad. So here's the thing though, But dads
(07:12):
wasn't around. So for a lot of us, we didn't
grow up in household seeing productive relationships. We didn't even
grow up in household with that quote unquote masculine structure
and discipline, and oftentimes a lot of us were enabled
by our mothers. So here we are, we have this.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Wait a minute, a minute, Wait a minute, a minute,
Wait a minute, hold up, talk to me about mothers
enabling their sons.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
For sure, it's so many times that I feel like,
and I can speak from my personal experience, that my
mother made excuses for me. My mother was an avid
defender of me, even when I was wrong. My mother
did cook and clean and make sure I had without
and I was the quote unquote man of the house
as a young boy, and so these this complex that
(07:59):
I developed now going into dating, I expected people to
treat me like my mother did right, to have this
unwavering belief that whatever I said was true, no matter
against the evidence. Right this, I hate this word, but
I'm gonna say it just for the mama's boying of
young men, because I think about it, like, if you
(08:20):
really this single mother and best believe, I believe they
do the best that they can. And we're not going
to excuse aptin fathers. But then the absence of a father,
behaviors happened between mothers and sons that wouldn't happen if
a father was there. If a father was there, you
wouldn't call that son the mother of the man of
the house if a father was there. It's certain certain affections,
(08:41):
which I'm not going to say is inappropriate, but certain
affections that probably wouldn't happen as much and maybe less excuses.
So this happens, and then when we get adults, because
we didn't have that role model to look for, and
then we had this understanding that people are supposed to
love is like our mother. Now, we put our girlfriends
and the people that we are interested in through the
(09:01):
same gauntlet that we put our mothers, and we expect
them to love us unconditionally the same way our mothers did,
despite how we treat them. You know what I mean,
Because ain't nobody gonna love you like your mother no
matter how wrong you are, She's still gonna love you absolutely. Yeah,
And we expect sometimes that are the women in our
lives do the same thing. And that's an unreasonable expectation
to have.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
So let me clean this up, because I know all
the single mothers out there right now are clutching their
pearlshment on the floor. So let me say it. Let
me clean it up, and then we'll go on to
the next thing. He is not making you wrong, He
is not making you bad. Mothers. Hear what is being said.
(09:43):
As a man raised by a single mom. He is
saying that he was enabled in behaviors as a young
man that don't work in relationship, that what he has
to say is always right. He has made the man
before he was ready or I had the skills or
tools to do that. This is not saying that you're wrong,
(10:06):
mother's It's just saying that even at our best, there
are things that our sons need that they don't get
that then show up as bad behaviors in relationship. Now,
that's what he said. This is what I'm saying. Very often,
when the father isn't in the home, the mother makes
(10:27):
the son her emotional husband. She looks to him to
make her feel good, to make her proud. Let me
speak for myself. I had a son. I was a
sixteen year old mom, and I was going to prove
to everybody that I wasn't just another teenage mom. So
he had to look a certain way, walk a certain way,
talk a certain way, be a certain way. I beat
(10:48):
him up about some things and let him get away
with other things because he was my emotional husband. So
what I want us to hear as women is sometimes
times our best efforts and our deep love still shows
up for our sons as disfunctional behavior. So does that
(11:09):
land for you?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
I believe it does.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Okay, let me ask you this. Who is the woman
you did the fumble with? What happened in there? And
how did you lose her? Did you walk away? Did
she walk away as you're fumbling around trying to figure
out what to do.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You know what did it multiple times, so we had
to just narrow down which one we do.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I would say collectively, though, I would say the biggest
fumble that I had it wasn't because I actually needed
to be with this one. We were in twenty twenty one,
twenty two. We didn't need to be with nobody. In
my opinion at that age. You know what I'm saying,
You're still immature, and I grew up very religious, and
(11:54):
I was now finding my own autonomy outside of that,
so it was a little difficult for me to adjust
who I was as an individual. But I would ultimately
say the biggest fumble is because now I live with regret.
I can't go back and fix you know what I'm saying,
You know how you got survivor's remorse. I feel like
I'm doing really good now, so I'm happy that I
(12:16):
made my mistakes, but I know that that doesn't make
people feel good in which I made mistakes against I
wish I could go back and still be the same
person I am now without those mistakes, but I can't.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Your lab rats, yeah they did what I you know,
my work, which is forgiveness work. Because I was a laborrat. Okay,
so we got single moms. We still make mistakes, and
it's important in a relationship mother, son, husband, wife, wife,
whatever it is that we understand even if we have
(12:49):
the best of intentions, we're still accountable to the outcome.
And that's what I hear you say that you can't
go back and clean it up with your lab.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Rat, and let me tell you something. It and it's
not just a specific person. It's a period in time
where I made multiple mistakes. And as much as I
can go back and rationale, hey, I was young, or
I was depressed, or I was doing this from that
in the moment when you gave about that, even after
(13:22):
you've gotten over it, it still feels bad because it's
not like sometimes you can go back and get that
closure that everybody be searching for, right, you can go
back to that person you did wrong and they're gonna
listen to you, and you're gonna be like, hey man,
I'm sorry. Sometimes you don't get that. Sometimes you get
it ended and we never talked again, and you have
to find your own closure from that, and that's a
(13:43):
struggle sometimes when you admit to yourself, I'm not the
same person I used to be, but maybe they still
think I am. And you care so much about trying
to go back and change their perception of you, because
here they are stuck in twenty ten and now you're
living in twenty twenty three, and now they watch your
videos online and they like, man, he ain't about that life,
(14:03):
and so it's a struggle. So if I could go
back and give myself advice, which you can't, but I
wish you could, my advice would simply be treat people
the way you want to be treated. And let me
tell you this, we hear that all the time, but
it would be like for real dog because here's the thing.
I heard that from so many adults in my life,
but I ain't listen to them. But I guarantee if
(14:24):
I could listen to my older self say that, I
probably would.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
But I can't.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
But I wanted to answer a question you said you
asked though earlier, if I may, You asked, how do
men learn or where's that transition into becoming a better person?
And I said, oftentimes it's because you fumble the woman
in which.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Was right for you. You know what I mean? Too often.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Let me tell you something, too often in my life,
I was so used of women just forgiving me and
giving me second and third and fourth and fifth chances
that it was an actual shock when somebody left and
stayed away and that hold odo you really leaving like
it was a shock because at that point there was
(15:10):
never real consequences for my behavior.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
And so the pain.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And I'll say this, and I don't want to do
the struggle Olympics, but I really believe that men put
on a pison like we don't be hurting after breakup,
but we'd be hurt. I could just speak for myself,
and that's a pain that I never want to happen again.
Because of that, I was really intentional about my healing
and I was making sure that hey, listen, if I
(15:38):
do like somebody in the future, if I do want
a relationship, I'm ready.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I'm in a relationship now.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
But it took ten years from my first relationship to
my next relationship. It was a ten year gap, and
that gap I learned myself. I created a nest, I
created skills, but most importantly, I became a better person
than a person that I'm proud of. But it's only
because I learned my lesson from fumbling and breaking the heart.
And unfortunately there's so many guys that are learning their
(16:06):
lesson how to treat a woman right from breaking another woman,
and that I wish it was a way for that
not to happen, But that's what's happening out here.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
This is loaded here. So I want to backpedal just
a little bit. They forgive me the third, the fourth,
the fifth time. Let's talk about that from a man's perspective,
because as women sometimes I think we want it so
badly and we bank on something you said don't bank on,
which I say, don't bank on, which is potential?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
When is enough? When do we have to say no?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Is it the first time? The second time? See, I'm
a first time verson? Yeah, when is enough enough?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
You're right, you are a first time person, and it's
a lot of women and men, but we're talking about
women that believe that they're first time people too. But
then there's the right guy or wrong guy come alone
and this man, to your point, maybe he doesn't have
the potential. Maybe it's not the potential you like. Maybe
he's actually this ambitious person, Maybe he actually is a
(17:09):
person that has a good reputation with everybody else. Maybe
he is on his square. He's a protector and a provider,
and maybe he's so different than of the other men
that you have met on paper that you're willing to
be more than the one time girl, because you've been taught. Hey, listen,
he's quote unquote high value. He may make a mistake
here and there. Girl, You lucky to be with him.
(17:32):
He paying the bills, he doing this. You know how
hard it is with these men. So then you convince
yourself to Hey, if I leave this guy, when it
took me thirty four years to meet a guy like this,
when the next time I'm going to meet a man
like that. And here's the thing, me and it got
something going for him. They know that too. They know
that too. And the behaviors in which happened in relationships
(17:52):
prior to them leads them believe that, no, if I
cheat on you, you won't go because I've cheated before and
they didn't go the first time or the second time.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
The things that a lot of women are attracted to charisma, right,
that's the thing that some women are attracted to. Some
people are charismatic, when they're trying to get you to
forgive them too. They can use these words, Hey, baby,
it ain't gonna happen again. I got you. You can
trust me, believe in me. Have I ever steered you wrong?
Outside of this blah blah blah and that person talks
you out of your decisions. I guess what I'm saying
(18:22):
is I can understand while women give three, four chances,
five chances. I can understand it. Though I feel like
it's unwise, I can understand it.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I hear you, and I hear it all the time.
I see it all the time. I believe instead of
trying to manufacture the CARO work the prevention.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
And one of the ways I tell women you can
prevent that is know who he is before you introduce
him to the huha. Yeah, and then the huhas all
attracted and attached. My first you know, preventive is a
good to his mother. I want to know if he's
a man of his word? Does he show up on time,
(19:04):
does he do what he's going to say? Does he
give me a bunch of excuses? And see I want
to know this before he meets the hoho ha, before
he sees her a sniffer or any of that. Does
he have a vision for himself? Because if I want
him to be the leader, if I want to follow him,
he can't be walking around blindly.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And for me, this is me. I know a lot
of you young and don't have it.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I want to know if he has a relationship with God,
something bigger, grander than himself. Now he got to know.
I got to know all of that before I give
him the huha. So if he's willing to hang out,
whether you do the ninety day rule or the one
twenty day rule, before you do, I need.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
To know that.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That's if you're dating from a place of self worth,
okay and self confidence, because some people not.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
And let me tell you what the issue is. The
issue is you.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
May make a man way ninety days, but she won't
and she won't and so your competition doesn't hold the
same standard as you. So what happens is you may
come in and this is what I've heard, I don't experience.
You know why as a man, I just never felt
like it was a lack of options of women. I
just feel like it's an abundance. But the opposite way
out is like you're dating from a scarcity mindset, because
(20:20):
you're like, Okay, this is a man I know gets
attention and I want to keep it.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
I want to keep it.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
So it influences women if you're not dating from a
place of self worth and self confidence to maybe give
up the hupah a little bit sooner to keep his attention.
And it's a lot of women doing that.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
We'll talk about that right after the break. Welcome back
to the R spot. Let's get back to the conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
You are dropping gems.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I want to summarize them for people who may be
coming in date from a place of self confidence and
self worth. Yeah, make sure that you're not being a
lab rat trying to figure out what to do. You
don't want to be a lab rat. Mom's raising sons,
(21:19):
This is from me. Don't make your son your emotional husband.
And this is from Ace if I heard you correctly.
You have to teach him how to be who he
is without teaching him that who he is just as
(21:39):
he is going to be acceptable to everybody. Because we
see our son, his breath, don't sting, his feet, don't sting.
I have to pick up behind him, I have to
cook his food. Let me so don't think that how
you see him and hold him as a single mom
is the same way other people are going to see him.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And hold him. This is something you said on one
of your ason I want to talk to you about it.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
You said that when your light is intimidating to a man,
then he's not the man for you. Because the reality
is so many women have advanced in their education, have
advanced in their career, and they're trying to find a
male partner. And let me say this too, this particular show,
(22:24):
we're talking about men and women because Ace is a
man and I'm a woman. I am not excluding same
sex relationships and any of this stuff that.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Applies to you.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
We all crazy as hell, subject to lose our minds
at any moment. So I love that when you said,
if your light is intimidating to him, then he's not
the one for you. Let's talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yes, if I could tell you how many times a
woman has came to the microphone at our shows and
talked about intimidation. But instead of it seeing it as
a sign that this person, this particular person, we can
judge his morality. We can say that's good, bad, or
and different that he feels intimate, but this person feels
(23:06):
intimidated by you. Instead of saying, okay, this is not
my person. See here's the thing. There is a person
for you that will embrace all the things this person
is saying is intimidating. But instead of doing that, what
we do is force to fit. And what we do
is say, let me deal my lights so they feel
more comfortable. Firstly, we don't realize that dating is just
(23:29):
that it's dating to see if something is right or
wrong for us. And before we start dating, we have
to be okay with either result because either result is
in a successful dating thing. So I'm dating you to
see if you're right or wrong for me if someone
is intimidated by you in a relationship, regardless what the
reason is. Right now, we can talk. We're gonna talk
(23:51):
about reasons in a second. But what happens is sometimes
that can foster jealousy inside of a relationship. It can
foster I feel like you're trying to minimize me. So
now what I have to do is puff up my
chest a little bit more. And I guess what I'm
saying is instead of recognizing that even though you like
this man, he's not right for you and moving on.
(24:14):
There are some people that's tempted to dim And let
me say this, and I want to add this caveat
your life though, and I know I'm about to make
people mad. Is not your degree.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Break that deck.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
And this is from my personal opinion. There's so many
women they come to the microphone and they say I'm
a good woman because I got a degree, I got
a house, I have a car. It is the same
starter pack of And it's like, how does that make
you a good woman. How many men think that they're
good men simply because they have a high paying job,
they got a car, and they got a house. And
(24:47):
we know that they're horrible people. So if you defining
yourself as being a good woman because of these accolades
you have, you didn't say that you're caring, that you're
a great listener, that you are a supportive partner, that
you're welling to contribute. You don't say those things and
define yourself that you got a good heart and you
say that makes me a good woman. So a lot
of times, and this is the part that I know
(25:08):
people gonna disagree with. A lot of times, men aren't
necessarily intimidated. They're just turned off because you're describing yourself
by your accolades. Now I get it, it's important, it's
part of the conversation. But I'm looking for a partner,
not an individual player. You're telling me your individual statistics.
I'm dating you to see if you can be a
(25:29):
partner for me. What I encourage women and men to do,
because as much as women lead with they accolades, men
do it ten times is worse. What I encourage people
to do is find who you are outside of what
you do for a living. Now, I know that's difficult.
I know it's difficult because we spend ten years in college,
we spend forty hours or fifty hours at our job.
(25:50):
But I'm concerned about learning about you. How you laugh,
what makes you laugh, When do you show up to
this relationship. Where are you willing to invest to it?
Are you caring? Are you loving? Do you want children?
These are things that we should highlight. And so I
guess what I'm saying is, now, if you're doing that
and that man is still intimidated, he probably not the
right person for you.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Be honest.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I hear them all the emails they sent me, But
I did that. I was caring to him, and he
lost his job. I held it down, and he's still cheated,
and he still left me.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
What do you say to that?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
If she is caring, he is supportive, and she does
show up in a partnership and in a very affirmative
and loving way, and he's still cheats and he's still live.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Being all those things you described, it's still not an
excuse to not enforce your boundaries. You can kindly enforce
your boundaries. You can, with an honest heart, walk away
from somebody that's toxic. And so my point is some
people define being a good woman as being overly tolerant
of someone that is putting you through the ringer. That
(26:59):
ain't being a good one either. I'm all four hoole
people down if they lost their job, if you are
compensating in other areas, and you are still president inside
this relationship, and you have given me more reasons to
believe staying here is wise than unwise. Howsomever you think
that just because you come and boy, they people gonna
(27:21):
be mad. Normally I have more time to explain these things.
So I'm just saying, you think you coming from this
dominant position and What I mean by that is there
are certain women that will intentionally date down. This man
now is indebted to you because here you are believing
in him in ways other women are wise enough not to.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
I'm just saying.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I'm just saying other women saying the ran flags and
they said, nah, but you like you know what, though,
I can fix this man, and you define it as
you being good because you know what, And I'm glad
you brought religion into this. We've taught We've been taught
from this sense that God loves everybody. I should love everybody,
and God doesn't give up on people. I shouldn't give
(28:04):
up on people. And what I'm saying is sometimes we
bring this God complex into relationships and it don't fit.
That's not where we supposed to be doing this at.
You know what I'm saying. If you want to love
this person as a Frank Coop, you want to help
him out as a Frank Coop, but this person still
has to meet your standards.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
And here's the thing. The worst thing in the world.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Is to get cheated on by the guy you settled
for that got to hit different. It got to hit different.
It's one thing, all right, Getting cheated on his back.
But by the God, you better than quote unquote, and
that gotta hurt different. It gotta hurt different. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And on that note, let's take a break.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Welcome back to the our spot. Let's get back to
the conversation. This is is so important because I think
this is a place where it really breaks down for
a lot of women because in their minds, they have
been good women. They have relaxed their boundaries, they have
lowered their standards, thinking that the big mistake women thing
(29:15):
is that I can fix them. And the thing that
I know this goes for old dogs, new dogs, young dogs, puppies,
safer nots when you think you can fix it. So
we have to take off our tool belt and stop
being repair people. But also so many women are so
afraid to be alone that they will they do dumb down.
(29:39):
I had.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Let me just share this experience.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I had just a beginning interaction with a doctor, okay,
the emergency room doctor. We talked and talked, and he's
emergency room, so that's absolutely insane. And then I'm all
over the place with my work. And so there was
one weekend that he finally had off and I had
(30:06):
to teach, and so he wanted me to give up
my teaching.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
To meet for the first time, and I said, it's
my ministry. I can't do that.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And he said, as we get deeper into this relationship,
that's gonna have to change. Okay, So now I'm a
red flag swat team. So I said, really, what does
that mean. You know how I work, and you know
what I'm doing, and I get a weekend off, and
you're not gonna make adjustments so that we can be together.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And I said nope.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
At my age, you know, if you get somebody whose
teeth fit.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
You try to hang on.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I said, nope, that's it for women. My point is this,
there have to be some things you will not compromise.
But so then I think is women we compromise so
many sacred places in our life and so many things
to be in the relationship that that So I just said,
(31:13):
that's not going to work for me. And so when
he called, he did say, what have I done something wrong?
I said, no, not wrong, It just doesn't work for me.
It doesn't work for me in my life. You have
to know that what's important to me is important to me,
and we both adjust and we both compromise. But I
don't know you like that for you to be telling.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Me what's interesting, because and I caught it earlier. But
even now, that purpose part is so important. Your cup
is filled with purpose, right, And when your cup is
filled with purpose, you don't have to feel it with
people that don't fit you.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
But oftentimes there are so many people devoid of that
purpose in direction. So now becoming a white are a
girlfriend is a soul motivating factor. And so now when
you're drinking because you're thirsty, because you're not feel with
purpose in the other way in other areas. And the
one thing you said, I want to just go back
a little bit when you had talked about being a
(32:15):
good woman to him, and I want to emphasize that
there are so many women that are good women to
undeserving men, But are you a good woman to yourself?
You call yourself a good woman in relations to how
you treat him, But are you a good woman in
relation to how you treat you? It matters because you
(32:38):
have to just in my psyche, right, And I'm gonna
just briefly break it down. There are certain men that
don't care how you feel inside, just as long as
he's satisfied from this relationship. This is why you can
have two people in the same relationship view it completely different.
You're miserable, I'm happy. I'm happy because you do serve me,
you do benefit me, you do give me lee waye
(33:00):
you allow me to be who I am without consequence.
I am happy. You are the perfect woman for me,
and you are doing the things that make me happy.
But in the process, it's like a seesaw. And that's
why I say these relationships be unbalanced. The worse you
feel about yourself, the better he views this relationship. The
more you start doing for yourself and you start caring
(33:21):
for yourself, you start loving yourself, you start saying no,
you start enforcing boundaries, the more he feels like you're
not treating him well.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
And these are relationships you can't be in. So I
get it.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
You define yourself as a good woman because you are
doing good things for him, but at the expense of
being a good woman for you. So you have to
get with somebody where being a good woman for you
is in turn being a good woman for him. Because
you guys are on the same path the same purpose,
You got a similar morality and understanding, and most importantly,
(33:53):
y'all reciprocate. So now it doesn't feel like a seesaw,
feels like an elevator. As you elevate, so do he,
and as he elevates, so do you. And I know
this sounds idealistic, but it's true. It's just true.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So very often again, as women, particularly women of color, red, black,
and brown women are taught that our job is to
make everything in everyone more important than us, So we
will we are value in our worth by giving so
much of ourselves away. But you keep mentioning consequences for behavior,
(34:29):
and that's something that I think we as women don't
put enough energy into. So talk to me about when
a woman, when there are consequences for bad behavior or
disruptive behavior in a relationship, how does that impact you
as a man.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
It makes me think twice about doing it. If the
consequence of me doing this action is you gonna be
mad for a couple of days, You're gonna I'm breaking
up with you, blah blah blain, and I just say
I'm sorry. I go to a couple therapy sessions, and
then we back where we are all I had to
do is pretend to be different for three or four
weeks and here that bought me another two years in
(35:10):
your life. All right, then cool? But if the but
that's what But that's the thing, that is what's happening.
I know it sounds funny when you say it, but
it's what's happening. It's that cycle, right, it's the cycle.
And so what happens is when someone truly believes that
you can leave, you have the power to they behave Differently,
(35:33):
when people figure out you don't have the power to leave,
they're enabled to do what they want to do because
where you gonna go, where you're gonna go. And so
I just encourage people.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
This is my thing.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I encourage people to tell people the fine print. And again,
I know this is controversial, I say it. I'll tell
people disagree with me. Look my love for you. I'm sorry.
I'm gonna just say it very conditional. Now the conditions
I'm gonna lay out for you. Treat me well, don't
do this, don't do that. Very simple things, basic things
that remedial adults should understand in relationships. If that doesn't happen,
(36:09):
my act of loving you will be revoked period. But
what happens is what we do. Though we tell people
I ain't gonna never leave. I promise I'm gonna always
be here. We say all these things, and I get
it because it sounds romantic. It really do. But we
need to start reading people to fine print. Fine Print
is just as long as you are present, as long
(36:31):
as you're not repeatedly disrespectful to me, as long as
if cheating is a boundary for you, as long as
you're not violating that boundary, and blah blah blah. This
is things you have to tell people, and then there
has to be consequences.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
This is the thing. You have to love you and
your healing and your journey the same amount, if not
more than you love that man. And here's the interesting part.
Sometimes we love that person more than we love those things,
and that person treats us orbly. And so my point is,
(37:07):
consequences has to be there, because what are standards and
boundaries without consequences. They're just suggestions.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
It literally, you're just suggesting things at that points.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah, what you're talking about is consequences. I call deal breakers.
What are your deal breakers? I say, each partner, you
get three deal breakers, and then you get some boundaries
to work with them. And for me, a boundary is
that standard that keeps me safe. But this is how
a boundary works. And this is what I tell women
all the time. The number one thing is you have
(37:41):
to announce the boundaries. Tell the person the boundary is.
Chances are they're going to violate it. Number the second
time they violated, you announce the boundary and you announce
the consequence, and so they know if you do this again,
this is a consequence. Chances are they're going to violate
(38:01):
it again when that third time comes. This is the
boundary we talked about it. This is the consequence I announced.
So now you violated the boundary the third time, there
are no more opportunities. If that violated again, done off
with your head. But so, because then you're giving people
(38:24):
the opportunity, You're stating your expectation.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
You're letting them know what you expect. You're letting them
know what.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Happens if they don't honor that expectation. You have to
enact the consequence. You must otherwise, like you said, it's
just the recommendation or a suggestion.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Do men settle for women.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
You know what, let me say this.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
See, now you're about to give me in trouble because
IM about to say I'm about to be real with you.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Hey, please be real.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Not in the same way. Okay, I don't believe in
the same way.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Tell me more.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Ah, you about to give me your trouble. Okay, here's
the thing I believe when women. I believe that there
are pocket of women. I'm not going to put a
percentage that believe they're settling, but they really not.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
You are getting what you can get at this point
you are.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
You're attracting what the same thing that's vibrating where you are.
You may think you're vibrating at sixty five when you're
really at thirty seven point six.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Now I believe men. I believe that there are men
that are content with what they know they can get
at this moment. They don't view it necessarily as settling.
Now does that mean that they won't try to upgrade
if they situations change? I don't know about that. But
in the moment, I don't think they view it as
I could do better, and I don't think in their head.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
And let me tell you why.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I think for men, love and loyalty are so tied together,
like when I say I love you, I'm loyal to you,
which is amazing because some men be cheating and still
think they loyal, but just follow me. The loyalty is
I'm gonna be here for you. I'm invested in being
a pair.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
And it's so.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Do I believe men settle, meaning that do they get
with women with whom they feel like if they looked
a little bit harder they could find quote unquote better, Yes,
but they're not haunted or spelled or overly imp impulsive
about focusing on them. The settling part, it's okay, I'm
(40:39):
content here, like I'm done looking. I don't want to
I don't want to date. Yo, it sucks like I'm
thirty four. I don't want to go dating no more.
I am happy where I am. Okay, I am happy
where I am. Now Here's the fundamental part though about
this discussion. They don't feel like they settle at the
same rate because I don't feel like men view the
day dating pool of women the same way women view
(41:02):
the dating pool of men. I had mentioned it before.
I don't think as a man, even before I've gotten
a little cloud or whatever, the case may be. When
I was working a regular job, I was a nurse.
I didn't think that there was a lack of quality
women in my small town. I'm from Dayton, Ohio. Everywhere
I looked, there was a quality woman for what I
was looking for, because I didn't have to look at
how much finances they had. I looked at were they
(41:25):
a good person? How did they make me feel? Did
I laugh around them? Were they supportive? Could she believe
in my dream? The metrics I define a good woman
as isn't the same as what women define or the
metrics they use for men. Women are more selective, so
of course they're going to feel like they're settling a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Late, a minute later, a minute that is goal, right,
then we should be able to get two shows out
of that. That was the Ace of Broken Hearts, Ace
metaphor keeping it real For real. Ace is hysterically funny,
totally animated, and his point of view is more often
(42:04):
than knock on point. He is raw, he is real.
He has a kind of ancient wisdom and perspective to
many of the current problems and issues encountered in our relationships.
But the special sauce for me is that this is
a man, a young man, who is talking to women,
(42:27):
spilling the tea about what men do, how they do it,
and why they do it. Ace is very clear that
men do what they do because we as women.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Do what we do.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
We allow it, we accommodated, we tolerated, and it hurts
up now that conversation was so deep and so nice.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
I say, we do it twice.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
We'll be back next week with part two of my
interview with Ace Metaphor, see you there in the meantime,
Stay in peace, not in peace.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
The R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
I am Yamba.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I've been very open about the fact that I was
not always good at making my relationships work. I have
been divorced three times, twice from the same person. In
other words, I have seen a lot and failed a
lot in my relationships. So I am here to share
with you what I learned along the way because I
(00:24):
did take copious note. Welcome to The R Spot, a
production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio blessing In Greetings,
(00:45):
belleved This is the R Spot and I am im
the van zandt your host, your guide, a teacher for some,
and a soft place to fall for others. As we explore, examine,
investigate some of the most common and often mind boggling
complexities of relationships. I have a guest today. My guest
(01:09):
today is known to his one million listeners as Ace Metaphor.
He is the host of Tonight's Conversation on YouTube, where
he dives headfirst into some of the most challenging and
common relationship issues and fallacies. He identifies himself as a
bad boy turn good and I want to know exactly
(01:31):
what that means now. What attracted me to Ace were
some of the topics of his shows. He did a
show called do Big Girls Pay More Bills? He did
another one called True or False Men do not want
an independent woman? And one of my favorites, the bitter
(01:52):
Baby Daddy, is the deadbeat Daddy. So today I want
to talk to Ace about everything you and I I
want to know and want to ask a man about relationships.
Ace Metaphor, hostuff Tonight's Conversation, Ace, Welcome to the R Spot.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I am extremely honored to be here. I appreciate it
so much. Thank you so much for the invite. It
means a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You crack me up.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
First of all, you are what I call cold water
in your face, which I do sometimes when I'm working
with people when you got to say the same thing
over and over. But one of the reasons I want
to talk to you is, first of all, you're a youngest,
whole different generation. We have probably very different experiences of relationships,
and I really want to examine and explore some of
(02:43):
your concepts and the things that you say, because many
of the things that you said say in your conversation
I need to hear as an elder. I want to
start here, though you said in your bio it says
I'm a former bad guy turn in to a good guy.
Tell me what a bad guy is.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Honestly, because I get asked that question a lot. I
need to change my bio because I'm getting sick of
that quick no, but no, really, when I talk about
the things that I want people to take heed to,
it's from personal experience of being this type of man,
being somebody younger who wasn't very intentional, through dating someone
(03:27):
that was crafty with words, that was able to omit things,
but lead you to believe that I was.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Actually interested in relationships.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
So although I've gotten to this place where I've matured
as a man and learned self restraint in boundaries, which
is oddly important to learn as an adult. Before, though
I didn't necessarily have that, I turned myself bad in
terms of relationships, and even deeper than that situationships. There
were so many women when I was going through that
(03:54):
phase that I led on. I was that good guy
on paper, so obviously had attention, but I didn't have
intention on doing anything other than to be honest wasting time. Now,
I think, in self reflection, if I was forthcoming about
my intentions and I was an open book and I
let people know exactly what I wanted to do and
what I expected it'd be different. But being twenty three,
(04:16):
twenty four to twenty five, I did none of that.
But when I say bad, God mean in terms of that.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So you were careless with people's hearts for sure. You
were out of integrity with the people you went relationships with.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
You were dishonest.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And I'm saying these things not to retraumatize you, but
are you good to let me know some of.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
The things that we need to look for?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So as I go through your videos, a couple of
things that you said that I was like, oh my god,
we need to just put that in a cracker and
sell it.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Let's talk about standards, yes, because.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
That's one of the things we talk about, and that's
one of the things women have. And he don't live
up to my standards or lowers because that's what's available
to it.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So talk to us from a man's point of view
about standards.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
You know what this is a it's a tricky conversation, yes,
because people have different definitions of what standards actually mean. So,
like you have a pocket of people that think standards
are life lofty financial goals, what somebody looks like, and
that can be a I call that preferences, but to
some people, that's a finite stand okay for me. When
(05:29):
you think about relationships, one of the first standards I
think we should negotiate on is how someone treats us,
Because you can be in some with somebody who has
all these things on paper, but they treat you horribly
and so then you're still settling. So when it comes
to standards, it's how someone treats you, how they show
up for you, what person do they bring out of you?
(05:51):
Do they bring the best out of you or the
worst out of you? Is this person understanding? And so
those are the things that I think we shouldn't negotiate on,
but often times we will because some of our preferences
are a little bit more shiny. It's easier to be
attracted to the shiny things, so we get distracted.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
So that's how we define it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I totally agree. I think the standards is one thing.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Preferences is another. But there are so many women who
don't want to be alone, so they overlook their standards.
And when you did that YouTube video, I put a
comment in the thread that said, so many women have
been treated so poorly for so long they don't even
(06:37):
know what good treatment talks about. How do you, as
a man, or how do men learn what it means
or what it is to treat someone good.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So I can only speak for myself, and I'm gonna
give you a cold, honest answer. Most times men learn
through fumbling the right woman, it's unfortunately, because you should
learn by, you know, educate yourself, picking up a book,
maybe going to a seminar, maybe talking to a professional,
not watching dad. So here's the thing though, But dads
(07:12):
wasn't around. So for a lot of us, we didn't
grow up in household seeing productive relationships. We didn't even
grow up in household with that quote unquote masculine structure
and discipline, and oftentimes a lot of us were enabled
by our mothers. So here we are, we have this.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Wait a minute, a minute, Wait a minute, a minute,
Wait a minute, hold up, talk to me about mothers
enabling their sons.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
For sure, it's so many times that I feel like,
and I can speak from my personal experience, that my
mother made excuses for me. My mother was an avid
defender of me, even when I was wrong. My mother
did cook and clean and make sure I had without
and I was the quote unquote man of the house
as a young boy, and so these this complex that
(07:59):
I developed now going into dating, I expected people to
treat me like my mother did right, to have this
unwavering belief that whatever I said was true, no matter
against the evidence. Right this, I hate this word, but
I'm gonna say it just for the mama's boying of
young men, because I think about it, like, if you
(08:20):
really this single mother and best believe, I believe they
do the best that they can. And we're not going
to excuse aptin fathers. But then the absence of a father,
behaviors happened between mothers and sons that wouldn't happen if
a father was there. If a father was there, you
wouldn't call that son the mother of the man of
the house if a father was there. It's certain certain affections,
(08:41):
which I'm not going to say is inappropriate, but certain
affections that probably wouldn't happen as much and maybe less excuses.
So this happens, and then when we get adults, because
we didn't have that role model to look for, and
then we had this understanding that people are supposed to
love is like our mother. Now, we put our girlfriends
and the people that we are interested in through the
(09:01):
same gauntlet that we put our mothers, and we expect
them to love us unconditionally the same way our mothers did,
despite how we treat them. You know what I mean,
Because ain't nobody gonna love you like your mother no
matter how wrong you are, She's still gonna love you absolutely. Yeah,
And we expect sometimes that are the women in our
lives do the same thing. And that's an unreasonable expectation
to have.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
So let me clean this up, because I know all
the single mothers out there right now are clutching their
pearlshment on the floor. So let me say it. Let
me clean it up, and then we'll go on to
the next thing. He is not making you wrong, He
is not making you bad. Mothers. Hear what is being said.
(09:43):
As a man raised by a single mom. He is
saying that he was enabled in behaviors as a young
man that don't work in relationship, that what he has
to say is always right. He has made the man
before he was ready or I had the skills or
tools to do that. This is not saying that you're wrong,
(10:06):
mother's It's just saying that even at our best, there
are things that our sons need that they don't get
that then show up as bad behaviors in relationship. Now,
that's what he said. This is what I'm saying. Very often,
when the father isn't in the home, the mother makes
(10:27):
the son her emotional husband. She looks to him to
make her feel good, to make her proud. Let me
speak for myself. I had a son. I was a
sixteen year old mom, and I was going to prove
to everybody that I wasn't just another teenage mom. So
he had to look a certain way, walk a certain way,
talk a certain way, be a certain way. I beat
(10:48):
him up about some things and let him get away
with other things because he was my emotional husband. So
what I want us to hear as women is sometimes
times our best efforts and our deep love still shows
up for our sons as disfunctional behavior. So does that
(11:09):
land for you?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
I believe it does.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Okay, let me ask you this. Who is the woman
you did the fumble with? What happened in there? And
how did you lose her? Did you walk away? Did
she walk away as you're fumbling around trying to figure
out what to do.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You know what did it multiple times, so we had
to just narrow down which one we do.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I would say collectively, though, I would say the biggest
fumble that I had it wasn't because I actually needed
to be with this one. We were in twenty twenty one,
twenty two. We didn't need to be with nobody. In
my opinion at that age. You know what I'm saying,
You're still immature, and I grew up very religious, and
(11:54):
I was now finding my own autonomy outside of that,
so it was a little difficult for me to adjust
who I was as an individual. But I would ultimately
say the biggest fumble is because now I live with regret.
I can't go back and fix you know what I'm saying,
You know how you got survivor's remorse. I feel like
I'm doing really good now, so I'm happy that I
(12:16):
made my mistakes, but I know that that doesn't make
people feel good in which I made mistakes against I
wish I could go back and still be the same
person I am now without those mistakes, but I can't.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Your lab rats, yeah they did what I you know,
my work, which is forgiveness work. Because I was a laborrat. Okay,
so we got single moms. We still make mistakes, and
it's important in a relationship mother, son, husband, wife, wife,
whatever it is that we understand even if we have
(12:49):
the best of intentions, we're still accountable to the outcome.
And that's what I hear you say that you can't
go back and clean it up with your lab.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Rat, and let me tell you something. It and it's
not just a specific person. It's a period in time
where I made multiple mistakes. And as much as I
can go back and rationale, hey, I was young, or
I was depressed, or I was doing this from that
in the moment when you gave about that, even after
(13:22):
you've gotten over it, it still feels bad because it's
not like sometimes you can go back and get that
closure that everybody be searching for, right, you can go
back to that person you did wrong and they're gonna
listen to you, and you're gonna be like, hey man,
I'm sorry. Sometimes you don't get that. Sometimes you get
it ended and we never talked again, and you have
to find your own closure from that, and that's a
(13:43):
struggle sometimes when you admit to yourself, I'm not the
same person I used to be, but maybe they still
think I am. And you care so much about trying
to go back and change their perception of you, because
here they are stuck in twenty ten and now you're
living in twenty twenty three, and now they watch your
videos online and they like, man, he ain't about that life,
(14:03):
and so it's a struggle. So if I could go
back and give myself advice, which you can't, but I
wish you could, my advice would simply be treat people
the way you want to be treated. And let me
tell you this, we hear that all the time, but
it would be like for real dog because here's the thing.
I heard that from so many adults in my life,
but I ain't listen to them. But I guarantee if
(14:24):
I could listen to my older self say that, I
probably would.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
But I can't.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
But I wanted to answer a question you said you
asked though earlier, if I may, You asked, how do
men learn or where's that transition into becoming a better person?
And I said, oftentimes it's because you fumble the woman
in which.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Was right for you. You know what I mean? Too often.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Let me tell you something, too often in my life,
I was so used of women just forgiving me and
giving me second and third and fourth and fifth chances
that it was an actual shock when somebody left and
stayed away and that hold odo you really leaving like
it was a shock because at that point there was
(15:10):
never real consequences for my behavior.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
And so the pain.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And I'll say this, and I don't want to do
the struggle Olympics, but I really believe that men put
on a pison like we don't be hurting after breakup,
but we'd be hurt. I could just speak for myself,
and that's a pain that I never want to happen again.
Because of that, I was really intentional about my healing
and I was making sure that hey, listen, if I
(15:38):
do like somebody in the future, if I do want
a relationship, I'm ready.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
I'm in a relationship now.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
But it took ten years from my first relationship to
my next relationship. It was a ten year gap, and
that gap I learned myself. I created a nest, I
created skills, but most importantly, I became a better person
than a person that I'm proud of. But it's only
because I learned my lesson from fumbling and breaking the heart.
And unfortunately there's so many guys that are learning their
(16:06):
lesson how to treat a woman right from breaking another woman,
and that I wish it was a way for that
not to happen, But that's what's happening out here.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
This is loaded here. So I want to backpedal just
a little bit. They forgive me the third, the fourth,
the fifth time. Let's talk about that from a man's perspective,
because as women sometimes I think we want it so
badly and we bank on something you said don't bank on,
which I say, don't bank on, which is potential?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
When is enough? When do we have to say no?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Is it the first time? The second time? See, I'm
a first time verson? Yeah, when is enough enough?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
You're right, you are a first time person, and it's
a lot of women and men, but we're talking about
women that believe that they're first time people too. But
then there's the right guy or wrong guy come alone
and this man, to your point, maybe he doesn't have
the potential. Maybe it's not the potential you like. Maybe
he's actually this ambitious person, Maybe he actually is a
(17:09):
person that has a good reputation with everybody else. Maybe
he is on his square. He's a protector and a provider,
and maybe he's so different than of the other men
that you have met on paper that you're willing to
be more than the one time girl, because you've been taught. Hey, listen,
he's quote unquote high value. He may make a mistake
here and there. Girl, You lucky to be with him.
(17:32):
He paying the bills, he doing this. You know how
hard it is with these men. So then you convince
yourself to Hey, if I leave this guy, when it
took me thirty four years to meet a guy like this,
when the next time I'm going to meet a man
like that. And here's the thing, me and it got
something going for him. They know that too. They know
that too. And the behaviors in which happened in relationships
(17:52):
prior to them leads them believe that, no, if I
cheat on you, you won't go because I've cheated before and
they didn't go the first time or the second time.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
The things that a lot of women are attracted to charisma, right,
that's the thing that some women are attracted to. Some
people are charismatic, when they're trying to get you to
forgive them too. They can use these words, Hey, baby,
it ain't gonna happen again. I got you. You can
trust me, believe in me. Have I ever steered you wrong?
Outside of this blah blah blah and that person talks
you out of your decisions. I guess what I'm saying
(18:22):
is I can understand while women give three, four chances,
five chances. I can understand it. Though I feel like
it's unwise, I can understand it.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I hear you, and I hear it all the time.
I see it all the time. I believe instead of
trying to manufacture the CARO work the prevention.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
And one of the ways I tell women you can
prevent that is know who he is before you introduce
him to the huha. Yeah, and then the huhas all
attracted and attached. My first you know, preventive is a
good to his mother. I want to know if he's
a man of his word? Does he show up on time,
(19:04):
does he do what he's going to say? Does he
give me a bunch of excuses? And see I want
to know this before he meets the hoho ha, before
he sees her a sniffer or any of that. Does
he have a vision for himself? Because if I want
him to be the leader, if I want to follow him,
he can't be walking around blindly.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And for me, this is me. I know a lot
of you young and don't have it.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I want to know if he has a relationship with God,
something bigger, grander than himself. Now he got to know.
I got to know all of that before I give
him the huha. So if he's willing to hang out,
whether you do the ninety day rule or the one
twenty day rule, before you do, I need.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
To know that.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
That's if you're dating from a place of self worth,
okay and self confidence, because some people not.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
And let me tell you what the issue is. The
issue is you.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
May make a man way ninety days, but she won't
and she won't and so your competition doesn't hold the
same standard as you. So what happens is you may
come in and this is what I've heard, I don't experience.
You know why as a man, I just never felt
like it was a lack of options of women. I
just feel like it's an abundance. But the opposite way
out is like you're dating from a scarcity mindset, because
(20:20):
you're like, Okay, this is a man I know gets
attention and I want to keep it.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
I want to keep it.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
So it influences women if you're not dating from a
place of self worth and self confidence to maybe give
up the hupah a little bit sooner to keep his attention.
And it's a lot of women doing that.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
We'll talk about that right after the break. Welcome back
to the R spot. Let's get back to the conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
You are dropping gems.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I want to summarize them for people who may be
coming in date from a place of self confidence and
self worth. Yeah, make sure that you're not being a
lab rat trying to figure out what to do. You
don't want to be a lab rat. Mom's raising sons,
(21:19):
This is from me. Don't make your son your emotional husband.
And this is from Ace if I heard you correctly.
You have to teach him how to be who he
is without teaching him that who he is just as
(21:39):
he is going to be acceptable to everybody. Because we
see our son, his breath, don't sting, his feet, don't sting.
I have to pick up behind him, I have to
cook his food. Let me so don't think that how
you see him and hold him as a single mom
is the same way other people are going to see him.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And hold him. This is something you said on one
of your ason I want to talk to you about it.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
You said that when your light is intimidating to a man,
then he's not the man for you. Because the reality
is so many women have advanced in their education, have
advanced in their career, and they're trying to find a
male partner. And let me say this too, this particular show,
(22:24):
we're talking about men and women because Ace is a
man and I'm a woman. I am not excluding same
sex relationships and any of this stuff that.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Applies to you.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
We all crazy as hell, subject to lose our minds
at any moment. So I love that when you said,
if your light is intimidating to him, then he's not
the one for you. Let's talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yes, if I could tell you how many times a
woman has came to the microphone at our shows and
talked about intimidation. But instead of it seeing it as
a sign that this person, this particular person, we can
judge his morality. We can say that's good, bad, or
and different that he feels intimate, but this person feels
(23:06):
intimidated by you. Instead of saying, okay, this is not
my person. See here's the thing. There is a person
for you that will embrace all the things this person
is saying is intimidating. But instead of doing that, what
we do is force to fit. And what we do
is say, let me deal my lights so they feel
more comfortable. Firstly, we don't realize that dating is just
(23:29):
that it's dating to see if something is right or
wrong for us. And before we start dating, we have
to be okay with either result because either result is
in a successful dating thing. So I'm dating you to
see if you're right or wrong for me if someone
is intimidated by you in a relationship, regardless what the
reason is. Right now, we can talk. We're gonna talk
(23:51):
about reasons in a second. But what happens is sometimes
that can foster jealousy inside of a relationship. It can
foster I feel like you're trying to minimize me. So
now what I have to do is puff up my
chest a little bit more. And I guess what I'm
saying is instead of recognizing that even though you like
this man, he's not right for you and moving on.
(24:14):
There are some people that's tempted to dim And let
me say this, and I want to add this caveat
your life though, and I know I'm about to make
people mad. Is not your degree.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Break that deck.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
And this is from my personal opinion. There's so many
women they come to the microphone and they say I'm
a good woman because I got a degree, I got
a house, I have a car. It is the same
starter pack of And it's like, how does that make
you a good woman. How many men think that they're
good men simply because they have a high paying job,
they got a car, and they got a house. And
(24:47):
we know that they're horrible people. So if you defining
yourself as being a good woman because of these accolades
you have, you didn't say that you're caring, that you're
a great listener, that you are a supportive partner, that
you're welling to contribute. You don't say those things and
define yourself that you got a good heart and you
say that makes me a good woman. So a lot
of times, and this is the part that I know
(25:08):
people gonna disagree with. A lot of times, men aren't
necessarily intimidated. They're just turned off because you're describing yourself
by your accolades. Now I get it, it's important, it's
part of the conversation. But I'm looking for a partner,
not an individual player. You're telling me your individual statistics.
I'm dating you to see if you can be a
(25:29):
partner for me. What I encourage women and men to do,
because as much as women lead with they accolades, men
do it ten times is worse. What I encourage people
to do is find who you are outside of what
you do for a living. Now, I know that's difficult.
I know it's difficult because we spend ten years in college,
we spend forty hours or fifty hours at our job.
(25:50):
But I'm concerned about learning about you. How you laugh,
what makes you laugh, When do you show up to
this relationship. Where are you willing to invest to it?
Are you caring? Are you loving? Do you want children?
These are things that we should highlight. And so I
guess what I'm saying is, now, if you're doing that
and that man is still intimidated, he probably not the
right person for you.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Be honest.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I hear them all the emails they sent me, But
I did that. I was caring to him, and he
lost his job. I held it down, and he's still cheated,
and he still left me.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
What do you say to that?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
If she is caring, he is supportive, and she does
show up in a partnership and in a very affirmative
and loving way, and he's still cheats and he's still live.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Being all those things you described, it's still not an
excuse to not enforce your boundaries. You can kindly enforce
your boundaries. You can, with an honest heart, walk away
from somebody that's toxic. And so my point is some
people define being a good woman as being overly tolerant
of someone that is putting you through the ringer. That
(26:59):
ain't being a good one either. I'm all four hoole
people down if they lost their job, if you are
compensating in other areas, and you are still president inside
this relationship, and you have given me more reasons to
believe staying here is wise than unwise. Howsomever you think
that just because you come and boy, they people gonna
(27:21):
be mad. Normally I have more time to explain these things.
So I'm just saying, you think you coming from this
dominant position and What I mean by that is there
are certain women that will intentionally date down. This man
now is indebted to you because here you are believing
in him in ways other women are wise enough not to.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
I'm just saying.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I'm just saying other women saying the ran flags and
they said, nah, but you like you know what, though,
I can fix this man, and you define it as
you being good because you know what, And I'm glad
you brought religion into this. We've taught We've been taught
from this sense that God loves everybody. I should love everybody,
and God doesn't give up on people. I shouldn't give
(28:04):
up on people. And what I'm saying is sometimes we
bring this God complex into relationships and it don't fit.
That's not where we supposed to be doing this at.
You know what I'm saying. If you want to love
this person as a Frank Coop, you want to help
him out as a Frank Coop, but this person still
has to meet your standards.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
And here's the thing. The worst thing in the world.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Is to get cheated on by the guy you settled
for that got to hit different. It got to hit different.
It's one thing, all right, Getting cheated on his back.
But by the God, you better than quote unquote, and
that gotta hurt different. It gotta hurt different. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And on that note, let's take a break.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Welcome back to the our spot. Let's get back to
the conversation. This is is so important because I think
this is a place where it really breaks down for
a lot of women because in their minds, they have
been good women. They have relaxed their boundaries, they have
lowered their standards, thinking that the big mistake women thing
(29:15):
is that I can fix them. And the thing that
I know this goes for old dogs, new dogs, young dogs, puppies,
safer nots when you think you can fix it. So
we have to take off our tool belt and stop
being repair people. But also so many women are so
afraid to be alone that they will they do dumb down.
(29:39):
I had.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Let me just share this experience.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I had just a beginning interaction with a doctor, okay,
the emergency room doctor. We talked and talked, and he's
emergency room, so that's absolutely insane. And then I'm all
over the place with my work. And so there was
one weekend that he finally had off and I had
(30:06):
to teach, and so he wanted me to give up
my teaching.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
To meet for the first time, and I said, it's
my ministry. I can't do that.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And he said, as we get deeper into this relationship,
that's gonna have to change. Okay, So now I'm a
red flag swat team. So I said, really, what does
that mean. You know how I work, and you know
what I'm doing, and I get a weekend off, and
you're not gonna make adjustments so that we can be together.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And I said nope.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
At my age, you know, if you get somebody whose
teeth fit.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
You try to hang on.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I said, nope, that's it for women. My point is this,
there have to be some things you will not compromise.
But so then I think is women we compromise so
many sacred places in our life and so many things
to be in the relationship that that So I just said,
(31:13):
that's not going to work for me. And so when
he called, he did say, what have I done something wrong?
I said, no, not wrong, It just doesn't work for me.
It doesn't work for me in my life. You have
to know that what's important to me is important to me,
and we both adjust and we both compromise. But I
don't know you like that for you to be telling.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Me what's interesting, because and I caught it earlier. But
even now, that purpose part is so important. Your cup
is filled with purpose, right, And when your cup is
filled with purpose, you don't have to feel it with
people that don't fit you.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
But oftentimes there are so many people devoid of that
purpose in direction. So now becoming a white are a
girlfriend is a soul motivating factor. And so now when
you're drinking because you're thirsty, because you're not feel with
purpose in the other way in other areas. And the
one thing you said, I want to just go back
a little bit when you had talked about being a
(32:15):
good woman to him, and I want to emphasize that
there are so many women that are good women to
undeserving men, But are you a good woman to yourself?
You call yourself a good woman in relations to how
you treat him, But are you a good woman in
relation to how you treat you? It matters because you
(32:38):
have to just in my psyche, right, And I'm gonna
just briefly break it down. There are certain men that
don't care how you feel inside, just as long as
he's satisfied from this relationship. This is why you can
have two people in the same relationship view it completely different.
You're miserable, I'm happy. I'm happy because you do serve me,
you do benefit me, you do give me lee waye
(33:00):
you allow me to be who I am without consequence.
I am happy. You are the perfect woman for me,
and you are doing the things that make me happy.
But in the process, it's like a seesaw. And that's
why I say these relationships be unbalanced. The worse you
feel about yourself, the better he views this relationship. The
more you start doing for yourself and you start caring
(33:21):
for yourself, you start loving yourself, you start saying no,
you start enforcing boundaries, the more he feels like you're
not treating him well.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
And these are relationships you can't be in. So I
get it.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
You define yourself as a good woman because you are
doing good things for him, but at the expense of
being a good woman for you. So you have to
get with somebody where being a good woman for you
is in turn being a good woman for him. Because
you guys are on the same path the same purpose,
You got a similar morality and understanding, and most importantly,
(33:53):
y'all reciprocate. So now it doesn't feel like a seesaw,
feels like an elevator. As you elevate, so do he,
and as he elevates, so do you. And I know
this sounds idealistic, but it's true. It's just true.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So very often again, as women, particularly women of color, red, black,
and brown women are taught that our job is to
make everything in everyone more important than us, So we
will we are value in our worth by giving so
much of ourselves away. But you keep mentioning consequences for behavior,
(34:29):
and that's something that I think we as women don't
put enough energy into. So talk to me about when
a woman, when there are consequences for bad behavior or
disruptive behavior in a relationship, how does that impact you
as a man.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
It makes me think twice about doing it. If the
consequence of me doing this action is you gonna be
mad for a couple of days, You're gonna I'm breaking
up with you, blah blah blain, and I just say
I'm sorry. I go to a couple therapy sessions, and
then we back where we are all I had to
do is pretend to be different for three or four
weeks and here that bought me another two years in
(35:10):
your life. All right, then cool? But if the but
that's what But that's the thing, that is what's happening.
I know it sounds funny when you say it, but
it's what's happening. It's that cycle, right, it's the cycle.
And so what happens is when someone truly believes that
you can leave, you have the power to they behave Differently,
(35:33):
when people figure out you don't have the power to leave,
they're enabled to do what they want to do because
where you gonna go, where you're gonna go. And so
I just encourage people.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
This is my thing.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I encourage people to tell people the fine print. And again,
I know this is controversial, I say it. I'll tell
people disagree with me. Look my love for you. I'm sorry.
I'm gonna just say it very conditional. Now the conditions
I'm gonna lay out for you. Treat me well, don't
do this, don't do that. Very simple things, basic things
that remedial adults should understand in relationships. If that doesn't happen,
(36:09):
my act of loving you will be revoked period. But
what happens is what we do. Though we tell people
I ain't gonna never leave. I promise I'm gonna always
be here. We say all these things, and I get
it because it sounds romantic. It really do. But we
need to start reading people to fine print. Fine Print
is just as long as you are present, as long
(36:31):
as you're not repeatedly disrespectful to me, as long as
if cheating is a boundary for you, as long as
you're not violating that boundary, and blah blah blah. This
is things you have to tell people, and then there
has to be consequences.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
This is the thing. You have to love you and
your healing and your journey the same amount, if not
more than you love that man. And here's the interesting part.
Sometimes we love that person more than we love those things,
and that person treats us orbly. And so my point is,
(37:07):
consequences has to be there, because what are standards and
boundaries without consequences. They're just suggestions.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
It literally, you're just suggesting things at that points.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah, what you're talking about is consequences. I call deal breakers.
What are your deal breakers? I say, each partner, you
get three deal breakers, and then you get some boundaries
to work with them. And for me, a boundary is
that standard that keeps me safe. But this is how
a boundary works. And this is what I tell women
all the time. The number one thing is you have
(37:41):
to announce the boundaries. Tell the person the boundary is.
Chances are they're going to violate it. Number the second
time they violated, you announce the boundary and you announce
the consequence, and so they know if you do this again,
this is a consequence. Chances are they're going to violate
(38:01):
it again when that third time comes. This is the
boundary we talked about it. This is the consequence I announced.
So now you violated the boundary the third time, there
are no more opportunities. If that violated again, done off
with your head. But so, because then you're giving people
(38:24):
the opportunity, You're stating your expectation.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
You're letting them know what you expect. You're letting them
know what.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Happens if they don't honor that expectation. You have to
enact the consequence. You must otherwise, like you said, it's
just the recommendation or a suggestion.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Do men settle for women.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
You know what, let me say this.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
See, now you're about to give me in trouble because
IM about to say I'm about to be real with you.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Hey, please be real.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Not in the same way. Okay, I don't believe in
the same way.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Tell me more.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Ah, you about to give me your trouble. Okay, here's
the thing I believe when women. I believe that there
are pocket of women. I'm not going to put a
percentage that believe they're settling, but they really not.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
You are getting what you can get at this point
you are.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
You're attracting what the same thing that's vibrating where you are.
You may think you're vibrating at sixty five when you're
really at thirty seven point six.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Now I believe men. I believe that there are men
that are content with what they know they can get
at this moment. They don't view it necessarily as settling.
Now does that mean that they won't try to upgrade
if they situations change? I don't know about that. But
in the moment, I don't think they view it as
I could do better, and I don't think in their head.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
And let me tell you why.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I think for men, love and loyalty are so tied together,
like when I say I love you, I'm loyal to you,
which is amazing because some men be cheating and still
think they loyal, but just follow me. The loyalty is
I'm gonna be here for you. I'm invested in being
a pair.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
And it's so.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Do I believe men settle, meaning that do they get
with women with whom they feel like if they looked
a little bit harder they could find quote unquote better, Yes,
but they're not haunted or spelled or overly imp impulsive
about focusing on them. The settling part, it's okay, I'm
(40:39):
content here, like I'm done looking. I don't want to
I don't want to date. Yo, it sucks like I'm
thirty four. I don't want to go dating no more.
I am happy where I am. Okay, I am happy
where I am. Now Here's the fundamental part though about
this discussion. They don't feel like they settle at the
same rate because I don't feel like men view the
day dating pool of women the same way women view
(41:02):
the dating pool of men. I had mentioned it before.
I don't think as a man, even before I've gotten
a little cloud or whatever, the case may be. When
I was working a regular job, I was a nurse.
I didn't think that there was a lack of quality
women in my small town. I'm from Dayton, Ohio. Everywhere
I looked, there was a quality woman for what I
was looking for, because I didn't have to look at
how much finances they had. I looked at were they
(41:25):
a good person? How did they make me feel? Did
I laugh around them? Were they supportive? Could she believe
in my dream? The metrics I define a good woman
as isn't the same as what women define or the
metrics they use for men. Women are more selective, so
of course they're going to feel like they're settling a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Late, a minute later, a minute that is goal, right,
then we should be able to get two shows out
of that. That was the Ace of Broken Hearts, Ace
metaphor keeping it real For real. Ace is hysterically funny,
totally animated, and his point of view is more often
(42:04):
than knock on point. He is raw, he is real.
He has a kind of ancient wisdom and perspective to
many of the current problems and issues encountered in our relationships.
But the special sauce for me is that this is
a man, a young man, who is talking to women,
(42:27):
spilling the tea about what men do, how they do it,
and why they do it. Ace is very clear that
men do what they do because we as women.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Do what we do.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
We allow it, we accommodated, we tolerated, and it hurts
up now that conversation was so deep and so nice.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
I say, we do it twice.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
We'll be back next week with part two of my
interview with Ace Metaphor, see you there in the meantime,
Stay in peace, not in peace.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
The R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
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