January 23, 2025 • 53 mins
Almost two years after Anastasia is murdered, Byron Case agrees to sit down for another interview with Sgt. Gary Kilgore. But this time, there are discrepancies in Byron’s account of the fatal night. Has time warped Byron’s memory or is he attempting to conceal the truth? Sgt. Kilgore is no closer to making an arrest, until someone comes forward and changes their story. It’s a bombshell confession that turns the case upside down.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
A warning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide
that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If
you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to
the end of this episode to find out where help
is available. It's been almost a year since Anastasia Whitbulsfuchen
(00:25):
was murdered and her boyfriend, Justin Bruton took his own life.
Investigators are no closer to making an arrest.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Were you present when Anastasia was killed? Now do you
know if Justin Brutin killed Anastasian?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
No?
Speaker 5 (00:43):
I doubt.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Or are they actually closer than they've ever been before?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm Leah Rothman.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
This is The Real Killer, Episode four. Seriously, Honestly, before
we move forward in the investigation, we need to go
back a bit.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
First.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Let's talk about Tara McDowell, Abraham Nisley's ex girlfriend. Remember
the night of October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven. Supposedly, Justin,
Byron and Kelly went to Abraham's to pick up some
stuff he had of Tara's, then took Kelly home. Then
Byron and Justin went to Tara's to drop the stuff off.
(01:39):
For months, Sergeant Gary Kilgore had been trying to interview Tara.
He was unsuccessful until February third of nineteen ninety eight.
I don't have the audio from her interview, only the transcript,
so from that I will share some of what she said.
Tara tells Kilgore that she was very good friends with
Anastasia and Justin, but she would consider herself Anastasia's confidante.
(02:04):
Tara says, in regard to the night of October twenty second,
she remembers Justin and Byron telling her that they were
going to Abraham's place after hers, not that they had
already been there. If you remember, that's a different order
of events than what Kelly and Byron originally said. Tara
says she doesn't want to make it sound like she
(02:26):
suspected either Byron or Justin of Anastasia's murder, but once
she heard her friend had been killed, she found it
strange that neither of them mentioned having been with Kelly
or Anastasia that night. Tara says, when Anastasia got into
her depressions about Justin, she could be quote very aggravating.
(02:48):
Anastasia would call quote an unbelievable number of times a day.
Tara share is that one time Byron recorded an outgoing
message on his pager that was something like, if this
is Anastasia, don't bother leaving your number or leaving a message,
because nobody's going to call you back. Nobody wants to
talk to you. Tara tells Kilgore that one day, not
(03:10):
long after Anastasia died, she stopped at the Amaico station
to ask where Lincoln Cemetery was. She and some friends
wanted to see the spot where Anastasia had died. There
at the Amaico station, she spoke with a man who
said he had already talked with police about seeing Anastasia
get out of the car that night at the stoplight.
(03:32):
Sounds like Tara's describing Don Rand, the night mechanic at
the Amaico station. So the man told Tara he noticed
Anastasia was walking unusually quick, and she seemed agitated, upset,
and angry. This is not what Don Rand originally told
police back then. When he was asked if Anastasia looked upset,
(03:55):
he said he couldn't tell. According to Tara, this man
said he watched Anniston Deja walk right past him go
across the street and up the hill that leads to
Lincoln's Cemetery, But Tara says he didn't see Anastasia go
into Lincoln, only up the hill, and he didn't say
anything about seeing a car following her. All of this
(04:17):
is new information to kill Gore. Just so you know,
back in nineteen ninety seven off Truman, there was a
road to the left that led to Lincoln Cemetery. Today
that entrance is closed to this man at the Amico station,
who very well may have been don rand see Anastasia
walk up the road that led to Lincoln Cemetery where
(04:41):
she was eventually killed, and if so, why didn't he
tell this too investigators. In regard to Anastasia's family, Tara
says that the relationship with her stepmom Diane wasn't great,
and therefore the one with her dad wasn't either. Tara
tells kil Gore she quote had the impression from Anastasia
(05:02):
quite a few times that there had been some very
distinctive abuse, which Tara believed had happened sometime in the past,
and Tara doesn't know if the alleged abuse was emotional
or physical. She added, quote, I don't know if it
was her father. I don't know if it was her stepfather.
Tera says, having been an abused child herself, she believed
(05:25):
Anastasia obviously lived through something when she was younger. The
conversation eventually turns to Anastasia's clothes. Ta Anastasia would borrow
her sister Fran's clothes a lot and friend was kind
of a hippie, she says. Anastasia was big on jeans
and real simple shirts black. She dressed simply, almost boyishly.
(05:48):
Tera says, Anastasia wore Doc Martins mostly. She had sandals Birkenstocks,
but Tara never saw her wear them, and Tara never
saw Anastasia carry a purse.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Only a'll wallet.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Kil Gore asks Tara if Justin or Byron owned a firearm.
Tara says Justin said at one point he had a gun,
but he got rid of it a couple of months before,
and to the best of her knowledge, Byron did not
own a firearm. However, she says his father may have
owned at least one gun. Then she says, quote, I
(06:23):
wouldn't know. Tara also says if Justin had anything to
do with Anastasia's death, Byron definitely knew about it. So
Tara gives some interesting and some conflicting information. The question
is will any of it help in the investigation. The
other thing that happens in nineteen ninety eight is that
(06:45):
things get a little sticky for Sergeant Kilgore because Bob
writes several complaints about him to his bosses, and a
formal complaint is filed about kil Gore for allegedly disclosing
an underage witness's name, which resulted in her receiving threats
she would be raped, killed, and her family's house burned down.
(07:08):
Between late summer of nineteen ninety eight and the summer
of nineteen ninety nine, the investigation remains in full swing.
Bob continues emailing kil Gore. Justin's dad hires a psychic.
There's talk of a Lincoln Prep curse. That's where Anastasia
and Byron both went to school. More people are interviewed,
and even a Ouiji board is consulted. Jumping forward to
(07:32):
June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Bob meets with Kilgore
at the Sheriff's department. Here's some of their recorded conversation.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
God Whitwell speaking, I understand that you have some additional
new information.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
That's correct.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
As you know in the past that I've given you
a list of vehicles that I've seen in the area.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You might remember from our last episode. Bob is very
fixated on the cars. He says he saw the night
Anastasia was murdered.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Now this is still on the lack of a better word,
the caravan coming down Truman Road as you were standing
at the interest of the Mount Washington's cemetery.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Grant is correct, and as you know, there's already forty
cars on the list.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
In the last several months, the list of cars has
grown from thirty one to forty. Bob says he knows
with every fiber of his being, the drivers of these
cars have at the very least some knowledge of what
happened to Anastasia and the night she was killed.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
And I wanted you to know that I'm so certain about.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
That, I'm willing to swear, testify, and take live detector tests,
take hypnosis whatever to confirm that for you, because if
you're not investigating that, you're not doing a job.
Speaker 7 (08:55):
Just keep it to the information that you're trying to
provide me.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
Please, Yes, I also had occasion to speak to a
friend of.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Pages and who is now a very close friend of
Tara McDowell.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
And she says that she heard.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Byron talking about the events and chronology of the evening, and.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
The story she tells me is that.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Byron, Anastasia, Justin, and Kelly were on Blue Ridge that
evening in front of the cemetery where.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
She was found.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
Who is this individual Allie?
Speaker 8 (09:53):
I don't remember her name.
Speaker 6 (09:54):
I'm sorry, it's been months. I can get it for you.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
So I've never heard the name of Allie.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
She probably would not be willing to come forward and
say these things, but maybe she will.
Speaker 7 (10:10):
Anything else. Mister wigbolsphegan.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
Out at this time. I reserve the possibility to come
in again.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I certainly feel that this has been a productive meeting
that I've been able to share with you what's been
on my mind for several months.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
About three weeks later, on July fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine,
Bob calls Kilgore. He wants to pass on Ali's last name,
but because she was under age at the time, we're
not going to discuss her last.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Name is and she's approximately sixteen years old.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Bob says he recorded an interview with Ali in late
nineteen ninety eight at the coffee shop where Page worked.
During that conversation, Ali told Bob. Not long after Anastasia's murder,
Ali and Byron had a conversation about it.
Speaker 9 (11:03):
Okay, then, if I'm understanding you correctly, Byron Case told
Ali and some of those details again.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Well, specifically that they Anastasia, Justin, Kelly and Byron were
traveling in a vehicle on Blue Ridge Boulevard, that they
stopped in front of the cemetery, and that that is
(11:33):
where the argument took place. And that's where Anastasia get
out of.
Speaker 8 (11:38):
The car at the Lincoln entrance, well on Blue right.
Speaker 9 (11:45):
Okay, And do you know why Byron would tell Ali this?
Speaker 8 (11:51):
Or does Ali? Did Ali say why?
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Allie said that he was just very talkative that she
was there. That No, I don't specifically recall.
Speaker 8 (12:05):
Let me ask you this question, who do you think
killed Anastasia.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (12:12):
Do you think Byron did?
Speaker 5 (12:14):
I think there were many individual presents and near the
name at the time. I don't know who pulled the trigger.
I don't think.
Speaker 8 (12:27):
That person is alive today. But maybe do you think
Justin did it?
Speaker 5 (12:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (12:35):
I thought you just said you don't think that person
is alive today.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Well, then it might very well have been.
Speaker 8 (12:41):
Justin, So I didn't, you know, I don't want to
make sure I didn't misunderstand.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
I certainly haven't heard anyone anyone mentioned his name, which
it would be a big clue, and to me personally,
that would mean that more than likely.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
He did not.
Speaker 7 (13:00):
Trigger.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Justin Justin did not pull the trigger.
Speaker 9 (13:04):
But that's only if somebody else came up and said, well.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
At this point, I don't know why anyone would protect him.
Speaker 8 (13:13):
Okay, do you honestly think that Justin did it?
Speaker 6 (13:16):
Though?
Speaker 8 (13:16):
No, I'm asking what you think.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
I do not think Justin did it, Okay, I don't
think whoever did it but admit it?
Speaker 8 (13:23):
Okay?
Speaker 9 (13:23):
But you think it's within this this group that with Danastasian,
Byron and Kelly Moffatt.
Speaker 8 (13:29):
And Justin within the group, they were all present when
this happened. Is this what you believe.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Someone who drove their vehicle on the road that evening
that I witnessed pull the trigger.
Speaker 9 (13:43):
But you'd think then, though, that Byron and Justin and
everybody was there. I'm trying to get an understanding of
what you're thinking.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
What I'm thinking is that if they were not immediately
within I sh uh of the scene, they certainly know
what happened. I'm I'm feeling that Justin knew it too,
(14:16):
that he wanted to fess up and tell the truth,
and that someone decided that would not be a good idea,
and in order to keep him quiet, they shot him.
Why no one's coming forward with this information because they
know that who's ever responsible is not beyond keeping someone
(14:41):
else quiet, even if that means killing them.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I'm despite Bob's speculation, Justin's official cause of death has
always been suicide.
Speaker 9 (14:54):
Okay, you've got to You've got a reason then, why
Justin was killed.
Speaker 8 (14:59):
Well, the reason for why Anastasia was killed.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Well, the story that we here repeated that you would
not like to have repeated, that's been discounted for some reason.
Seems to be that there was a game being played
with a gun and that someone unbeknownst to the person
holding the gun, put a bullet in the gun and
(15:27):
that is how she died.
Speaker 9 (15:28):
Okay, And this was taking place at Lincoln Cemetery or
nearby or.
Speaker 8 (15:34):
Nearby, So then that would mean that the body was moved.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Well, it might mean that I don't think that it
was moved.
Speaker 9 (15:41):
But okay, if it wasn't moved, and it would had
have happened at Lincoln Cemetery and not just nearby, well,
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
I didn't get to benefit by the crime scenean investigation,
but it happened with a number.
Speaker 8 (15:58):
Of people nearby.
Speaker 9 (16:01):
But you believe then it's an argument based on what
Ali says and the argument between Justin and the stage.
It took place on Blue Ridge near the entrance to
Lincoln Cemetery.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
I hear the prevalence of an argument taking place. I
personally don't believe it. I think it's just a convenient one.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
Okay.
Speaker 9 (16:18):
And in any event, and in order to stop and
play a game, they must have resolved their differences at
least for a moment, would you think.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Actually, I don't know under what circumstances a gun would
have been introduced to the scene. Well, I think Byron's
fearing for his life, and that's why he's not telling
the story. So that's probably why he's not the trigger person,
because in the story that we hear, he's only the
(16:47):
person that puts the bullets in the gun.
Speaker 8 (16:49):
And the trigger person is I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
The conversation then turns to Anastatia's close and whether or
not she ever made it home. Remember, Bob believes she
did because he said he found her purse, her blue jeans,
and the washing machine and her underwear soaking in the sink.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
I want to know did they come to my house
sometime that evening? I mean, after all, I find that
I have several descriptions of her wearing blue jeans, and
she's not wearing blue jeans that night. I have a
billfold at home. Well, if the billfold is at home,
(17:31):
how does.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
It get to my house?
Speaker 5 (17:35):
How is it that she's not wearing the same clothes
that four people describe her.
Speaker 8 (17:39):
At Did your a wife remember what she was wearing?
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Well, my wife thought that she was wearing blue jeans,
but she's.
Speaker 9 (17:47):
She was the last one to actually see her out
in your family right.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
And also, mister I believe his name was la Page,
who gave a story that he was driving test driving
a car and saw her in the cemetery that evening,
said that she was wearing blue jeans.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So Bob brings up mister Lapage, George Lapage and his
wife actually called sergeant Kilgore three days after Anastasia's body
was found to offer some information. At that time, mister
Lapage told Kilgore that on October twenty second, while he
and his wife were test driving a car in Mount
Washington Cemetery. Remember that's the cemetery Anastasia was dropped off
(18:34):
At around four point thirty, the Lapages saw a white
female sitting on the steps of the Nelson mausoleum. Mister
Lapage said that the woman approached the car and asked
what time it was. It was around five point thirty
five forty five. The female then told them she was
waiting for her boyfriend to arrive. Missus Lapage believed the
(18:54):
female seemed quote disoriented. In Kilgore's report, the old only
clothing item the Lapages described the female wearing was a
quote brown Swede type jacket, no mention of jeans or shoes. Now,
did Bob talk to the Lapages on his own and
get more information, like Anastasia was wearing blue jeans? If
(19:17):
he did, I don't have any documentation about that. Next,
Bob brings up Glenn Calliver, the caretaker at Mount Washington Cemetery.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Mister Cliver was describing her attire, wearing a corduroy coat
and blue jeans, and suddenly she's not wearing the same clothing.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Remember, mister Cliver saw Anastasia twice that night, once around
five pm and later around seven pm when he ushered
her Justin, Byron and Kelly out of the cemetery because
it was after hours. Two investigators Glenn Cliver never described
Anastasia wearing anything other than a quote dark coat. Bob
(20:03):
spoke with mister Cliver the morning of the twenty third
when he was out looking for Anastasia, and he says
he talked to him again some time after. Is that
when mister Cliver might have told Bob he saw Anastasia
in blue jeans. Anyway, Kilgore and Bob talk a bit
longer than kil Gore wraps it up. By the way,
(20:25):
I don't have any documentation that says Kilgore ever made
contact with Ali to check out her story, or that
he circled back to Glenn Calliver or the Lapages to
see what they saw Anastasia wearing that night. But for
almost a year, Sergeant Kilgore has been wanting, waiting to
talk to one person in particular. He's finally going to
(20:49):
get his chance.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
He just got an ugly Byron Chase.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
On July twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, about twenty one
months after Anastasia was murdered. Byron case is that the
Jackson County Sheriff's Department to speak with Sergeant Kilgore. Byron
now has been granted limited immunity, which means, in exchange
for giving a truthful statement regarding the homicide of Anastasia,
(21:26):
the death of Justin, and the events of October twenty second,
nineteen ninety seven, the state agrees that his statement will
not be used against him. However, if he knowingly provides
false information to the police, his statement could be used
against him in a prosecution for providing false information or
obstructing justice. It seems for this interview Byron is there alone.
(21:49):
There's no mention in Kilgore's report that he had an
attorney present.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
How long have you known? Just a year? Maybeel a
little bit more?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Aren't By discussing Byron's relationship with Justin and Anastasia.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Were pretty good friends, Oh yeah, absolutely, do you live?
I think yeah, for a while we well after he
and Anastasia met, I moved In. I lived with them
for about three months, I guess with Annastasia also, Yeah, yeah,
all three of us, didn't you at one point in
(22:27):
time dated Anastasia. No, she was a friend of mine
from I think we met in the eighth grade. Yeah,
we met in the eighth grade, and we didn't get
along initially, but when we went to high school together we.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
Got pretty close. So, but you had a d It
was only strictly patronic, but you knew her quite well.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Oh yeah, I mean, you know, we were really close friends.
I mean, you know, we cried on each other's shoulders
quite a bit, you know, I mean it was just,
you know, we could pretty much share anything, and you
and justinretty much the same way. I mean, Justin was
I don't know, Justin had a tendency to be kind
of closed off.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
So I mean, you know, when I did get something
out of him.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
It was usually after it had been bothering him for
a long time, so he wasn't really all that open.
But you know, he was very honest at least, and
you know that's something that I really respect. I've heard
and been told that you and Justin a little bit
more than just than the time I.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
Knew that was going to come up.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I heard that rumor, and I don't remember who eckered
it from. But no, Justin and I were always very
very good.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Friends, and it was never.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Anything beyond that, the fact that we hung out together
all the time. And I guess some people were thinking
that Justin might have been gay at the coffee shop.
Speaker 7 (23:58):
They you know, they probably wondered.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
I don't. I never heard any talk about it, but
you know, I would probably have assumed the same thing
if I had been an outsider looking in on something
like that.
Speaker 7 (24:09):
But you buy noo.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, Kilgore goes back to asking about Anastasia.
Speaker 7 (24:19):
You did you always remain with her.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
There were a couple of points when we were well,
there are a couple of points when we were living
together when I would kind of get annoyed by the
fact that her and Justin would fight all the time.
And it was mostly because from my perspective, it was
mostly because she wasn't really happy with the way that
(24:46):
Justin treated her. You know, he wasn't giving her enough
attention or you know, or something like that.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
So I mean it got a little annoying, and you know,
I would go talk to her, and you know try
and I don't media.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Eighth, so I mean it was never, you know, it
was never to the point that I disliked her. Bring
out of the document that was found in Justin's computer.
Speaker 7 (25:16):
Read that at all.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
We talked about this document in episode three. Although there's
no name on it, it seems to have been written
by Anastasia, with the following excerpts being potentially the most
telling quote. I don't care what Byron thinks of me.
I never cared what anyone thought of me until I
loved you. Then I only cared what you thought of me.
Byron can go fuck himself for all I care. The
(25:45):
only person's opinion I care about is yours, So fuck me.
You and Byron deserve each other because that seems to
be the one you want, someone who shares your brain
and your thinking, and so fuck me.
Speaker 7 (25:58):
That sounds the kind of stature meaning in there. That
was weird. I'd never seen that before. Sounds like she's
pretty angry on that. Yeah, sounds like she's pretty.
Speaker 8 (26:11):
Angry in you.
Speaker 7 (26:13):
And I'm trying to.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
Think what that was.
Speaker 7 (26:15):
All that was about. According to the.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Kid peaks in the computer on that, it's a letter
was a creator and his document was created on October twenty,
nineteen ninety seven. Keep in mind the last time you
saw her was October twenty second.
Speaker 7 (26:35):
This was well, it was. It was last saved on
October twenty first. I didn't see ninety as long and
was taken off.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
But jeff right, I'm trying to think of when she
would have justin didn't have email or anything, so I'm
trying to think of when she would have been at
his place to write that.
Speaker 7 (26:55):
I'm going to assume that his computer will be correct.
I don't remember. I'm pretty sure it did. Why would
she be so angry as you were you having problems
with Anastasia. No, but when she got mad, she got
mad at everybody.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
The conversation then turns to clothes and what everyone had
on the night of October twenty seconds.
Speaker 7 (27:22):
Do you think you remember what she was wearing?
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I think, if I remember correctly, that she had on jeans,
and it's because she usually wore jeans, and I don't remember.
Speaker 7 (27:40):
Honestly, don't remember.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
It may have been a T shirt, it may have
been a long sleeve shirt. I'm pretty sure it was gray,
though I seen to remember her having like a gray
T shirt style thing with like a V neck or something.
But I don't remember coat jacket. I don't even remember
(28:03):
if it was cold enough for one, I don't think.
Speaker 7 (28:07):
So I might be wrong on that. Again, you probably
don't remember what you were wearing.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
No, uh, well, knowing Justin, he had like a uniform
kind of that he wore, so it was probably like,
you know, khaki pants and black T shirt and her
white T shirt and a black like zipa jacket pants.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Byron takes Kilgore through that day. He says they picked
up Kelly around four, stopped to get a drink at
the gas station near her house in Lenexa. By the way,
this is the first time Byron is saying they stopped
at a gas station. Then Byron says they went back
to Justin's condo. Anastasia called. She and Justin talked for
a while, arguing about their relationship. Finally just agreed to
(29:00):
pick her up at the Dairy Queen. And when they
got there, Anastasia was not happy.
Speaker 7 (29:05):
That you know what, I said hello. She didn't say
hello back, but you know that was just because she
was like just consumed buyer, you know, being angry. So
you got in the car. What was the seating arrangement?
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Anastasia was in front of me, I was in the
rear seat, and Kelly was sitting on my left behind.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Justin okay, So Anastasia was in the right front, you
were in the right rear, Kelly Moffatt left rear right
jested driving okay.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Byron says they went across the street to Mount Washington
Cemetery as soon as they saw the caretaker they left.
Kilgur then asks Byron to look at a map and
point out where they were exactly and where they went
after Mount Washington. Byron struggles a bit with the map up,
trying to pinpoint what roads they took before ending up
on Truman Road, near the adult bookstore, gas stations and
(30:06):
the I four thirty five, where he says Anastasia got
out of the car. Kilgore asks if Byron had never
been to Lincoln Cemetery before. Byron says he didn't know
where Lincoln Cemetery was until one of their friends and
a Huntsecker showed him.
Speaker 7 (30:23):
No, I'll go there after anastasia body was found.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
I didn't really want to. I mean it just kind
of as you don't creep me out.
Speaker 7 (30:30):
No, I didn't know you've ever been there. Well, yeah,
I mean we've dot it.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
That night when Anna and I month ago, or I
mean a month after she died. I think it might
have been a couple of months because I had no
idea where it was, and you know, people were saying
Lincoln Cemetery where he was That.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Back to the night of the twenty second Byron says,
after Anastasia got out of the car on Truman Road
at the four thirty five, they drove off and where
you go.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
We went back to Justin's condo, and I guess we're
going to just hang out there for a little bit
because Kelly had some time to kill before she had.
Speaker 7 (31:05):
To be home.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
So we went there and Justin wasn't saying anything, and
he was just kind of like sitting in his chair
quietly when we got to the condo, and so Kelly
and I played Nintendo for a little bit, you know,
just like kind of waiting for him to say something,
and you know, nothing was said. And then every now
(31:28):
and again we'd look over the clock to see if
it was time to lead yet. And because I think
Kelly had to be home by nine.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Byron says, they took Kelly home, and while they were there,
Justin called Anastasia's house. That's when they learned she hadn't
made it home yet. At that point, Byron says, Justin
started getting worried about it.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
How much time it left and she got out of
the car. We primarily Justin's house for about a half
hour so, and then right to Kelly's took about a
half an hour, I guess, I don't even probably twenty
minutes to get back Tom Independence or or something like that.
I know, I think it was probably I think he
(32:12):
called a little bit before nine point thirty when he
called on the stage's house, I think, And so about
hour hour and a half two hours, probably more like
an hour hour and a half to two hours.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Was it dark when you dropped her off or when
she got out of the car. Oh yeah, I mean
it was dark when we were at the cemetery, So
so I'm understanding craigly. Then she got out of a
car for thirty five in treatment an hour and a
half or so. As a last Justin calls home.
Speaker 7 (32:43):
She's not there. She only lived a couple of miles
down the road.
Speaker 6 (32:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
Nobody said, well, gee, I wonder where she went or
where she's at, or what had happened to the Well,
I know that Kelly was worried about her, and I was,
you know, once he called and said she's not home yet,
we all just kind of sat there.
Speaker 7 (33:03):
And nobody said, well, gee, maybe we ought to go look, No,
nothing like that.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
We ought to make a few calls through her friends
and see where she's at. She called somebody she is,
she's somewhere now.
Speaker 7 (33:16):
We just called.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
I wonder if she might be dead? Well, we didn't
certainly didn't think that. I let me asked to do
Did you.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Go anywhere else other than take Kelly home?
Speaker 8 (33:27):
No?
Speaker 4 (33:28):
I mean we went to Justin's and to Kelly's and
the didn't make any stuff. No, didn't stop buying Para
McDowell's a fart. Oh I'm sorry, Yes, yes we did.
We went Actually, we went by Terror's apartment because Rom
Abraham needed some stuff. They had just broken up, like
how too long before, and Abraham wanted like the stuff
(33:49):
that he had left over at her apartment. So we
stopped buy a rick her place, and it was pretty,
as I recall.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
We just picked up the bag and left and then
drove over to Abraham's house and dropped it off, and.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
We stayed and talked with him for a while. But
we need to get Kelly back, so we didn't spend
a lot of time there.
Speaker 7 (34:11):
Okay, where'd you go first? We went to Tarra's first
to pick up the stuff the step.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So this is different from what Byron and Kelly had
originally said, which was that once they were back at Justin's,
Byron called Abraham, who had paged him. Then they went
to Abraham's. Then they took Kelly home. Then Byron and
Justin went to Terra's. Now Byron is saying that they
went to Terra's first, then to Abraham's, then they took
(34:38):
Kelly home, but Tara said Kelly wasn't with them, So
which is it? Kilgore asks Byron the next time he
spoke to anyone.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
The next morning, at like nine something, I got a
phone call and I woke up to and it was
Justin on the phone.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
You didn't talk to Kelly later on?
Speaker 6 (35:02):
No?
Speaker 4 (35:02):
I mean I no, she was in bed, and you know,
like I said, I'm pretty sure she had school that day,
Are you sure of that?
Speaker 7 (35:10):
No? I don't even remember what day of the week.
It was on Oh that was the one saying okay
that she probably had school. But no, I mean, I
didn't even think to call her. I mean, like I said,
I was still asleep.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
This is also different, at least according to Kelly. She
said she paged Byron between eleven PM and midnight. Byron
called her back and they talked for a while.
Speaker 7 (35:31):
But anyway, we.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
See what I find, you know, difficult to believe at
this point about is that you've said that you know,
Justin were inseparable, she were the best of friends.
Speaker 7 (35:43):
And here is his girlfriend bailed.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Out of the car, and in the next days you
hear everybody here is that she's been murdered Lincoln Cemetery,
just probably one hundred and.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
Fifty yards or so away from she exited the car
for thirty five and tournament. Justin calls you about nine
nine thirty in the morning, and probably thirty minutes to
an hour later he's over in can just buying a shotgun.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Two days later he's found he's head blown off. All
of this is pretty important stuff in a person's life.
I would say you were one of the last ones
to see Anna Stadium. You were the last one to
talk to fiant of his friends or excuse he was
the last one to talk to you, being of the
friends group, naturally had to talk to somebody else by
(36:29):
a shot.
Speaker 7 (36:29):
Again, this type of stuff.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
I kind it hard to believe that he didn't share
some of this with you, some of what just the
fact that it was nine o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 7 (36:37):
Maybe Justin already knew she was dead, but it wasn't
even released, like as far as I know it did
Justin do you think he did?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
He think he maybe he went out and looked for
I can't imagine. I mean, unless it had been pre
planned or something.
Speaker 7 (36:53):
Nobody know always where an stage is at. Justin knows
that she's not home, right, Okay, had just In that
intensitive and uncaring an individual that he wouldn't go look
for a girl that he's known for how long? Remember
how long they did it?
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Then he's been intimate with that, he's obviously had feelings for.
And this is where I get a little bit to
the point where I have problems that Justin wouldn't share
something with you. Yeah, and at nine o'clock he had
to be knowing that he was going to go buy
a shotgun and that subsequently he was going to commit suicide.
(37:30):
He had to know that when he talked to you,
and as close and inseparable as you guys are, I
find it hard to believe that he didn't say something. Well,
and that's what I've been trying to, like justify for
a really long time, is you know, if we were
so close, then why if he had anything to do
(37:53):
with it, why didn't he tell him?
Speaker 7 (37:54):
Did just to tell you anything about in the stage
of being did?
Speaker 6 (37:58):
No?
Speaker 7 (37:59):
Do you know if Justin was present when Anastasia was killed?
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
You have nothing to fear, Okay, I mean, you have
no reason to not tell me the truth, right yim.
Speaker 7 (38:14):
I'm not going to jump up and arrest you. Are
you being honest and truthful with me? By him? Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (38:20):
And Justin didn't give any indication that he was going
to go buy a shot again and go Floyd's head.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
No.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
I mean if he had, I would have, you know,
immediately gone over there, you know, to stop him. There's
an individual it says they're positive that they saw in
your car on Truman Road had approximately eleven forty five
on October twenty second, the night that Anastasia was killed
(38:48):
web October twenty second.
Speaker 7 (38:51):
That's when you picked up Fantastasia, the dairy queen. She
got out of the car for thirty five and Truman
and here at eleven forty five at night, I had
an individual wares. So your car license plates morbid right
on Truman Road that night.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Sergeant Kilgore just told Byron that someone reported seeing his
car with his morbid license plates driving down Truman Road
around eleven forty five the night Anastasia was murdered.
Speaker 7 (39:33):
That night, my car was parked in my mom's place.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Remember in the last episode, Byron's lawyer said his car
was in the shop the night Anastasia was murdered. So
on the night of October twenty second, was Byron's car
at the shop, at his mom's or on Truman Road.
Speaker 7 (39:53):
Why the way did you guys go back out and
work brand and stead do that night?
Speaker 8 (39:57):
No?
Speaker 7 (39:57):
I stayed home and my mom was there.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
She knows that, Like you know, if I come in,
I mean she would have heard me lead again, Okay,
I was there when I was at my mom's house.
Speaker 7 (40:08):
He didn't go out, No, he didn't.
Speaker 8 (40:10):
Go back out.
Speaker 7 (40:10):
More of it is not in common license plate. Yeah,
I don't know it. Just didn't go back out and
look for nd stage that night.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
As far as I know he I mean, I only
know what he told me, and he said that he
was going how to sleep.
Speaker 7 (40:23):
Well that was all I mean, that was the only
conversation that we have.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
But then you would agree with me then when you
spoke with him at nine or nine thirty that morning,
he knew what he was going to do.
Speaker 7 (40:34):
He must have. You were a reasonably intelligent young man.
I mean, what conclusion would you draw?
Speaker 6 (40:40):
You know? He must have.
Speaker 7 (40:41):
Yeah, he did know that. And you being the last
person that I know that he.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Talked to in his in his group of his friends,
of his associates, that he personally knew, You're the last.
Speaker 7 (40:52):
One, and you and him were your word inseparable. I think,
what did he tell you? I'm sure that that's all
that he said.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
And I'm one positive that all that he said to
me was I in troubles sleeping last night, and you know,
I told him that I was tired and wanted to
go back to.
Speaker 7 (41:12):
Sleep, and we agreed to talk later.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Did justin give you any indication prior to that phone
call that he was going to commit suicide.
Speaker 7 (41:20):
No, I mean I had no idea. I assumed if
anything that, you know, after all of this happened.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
You know, Kelly and I were kind of doubting ourselves
even you know, in the friendship that we had, thinking
that maybe he might have done it, and you know,
if he did, we kind of we tried to hypothesize,
like where he would be, what he would be doing.
Speaker 7 (41:41):
And why would he kill Anastation exactly?
Speaker 6 (41:44):
And that.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
He's as far as I know, he had no reason
to why would he kill himself?
Speaker 7 (41:52):
Yeah, I mean I don't have any idea. Is there
another person involved with this that you were afraid of? Involved?
Mean that somebody else killed Anastasian and that justin knew it.
I can't imagine. And so this his whole suicide is
just a staged because maybe he was going to talk
(42:13):
talk about that he knew who killed her. I'm looking
for an answer.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
I can't believe that that is possible because I mean,
like I said, we were I mean just the four
of us were best friends and.
Speaker 7 (42:31):
We never really.
Speaker 6 (42:34):
Did you guys ever play with guns?
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Were you up in that cemetery playing with a gun
and something happened no, seriously, now, seriously, honestly, honestly, did
you go out and look for Anastasia that night?
Speaker 7 (42:47):
Do you know of anybody that did? Nobody except her dad?
What do you know about that? What did you talk
to him?
Speaker 4 (42:56):
I've talked to him a couple of times, once at
the funeral, and I think I ran into a must
person that I don't really remember.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
If you heard from anybody that your car was seen.
I was near the area of Lincoln Cemetery the night
that Anastasia was killed. Just to you, I haven't heard
anything about that, and you are telling me now that
you were not there.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Absolutely, I was in Justin's car the whole night, and
I don't even think I drove my card all that day.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
If you had to, if you had to provide me
with the name of who might know what happened, who
would that be? Who would Anastasia turned to when she
exited that vehicle?
Speaker 7 (43:44):
Her dad? I mean, that's the only person that I
can think of.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Sergeant Kilgore presses Byron, did you.
Speaker 7 (43:53):
Kill Anna Stasian? Did you kill Anastasian?
Speaker 8 (43:57):
No?
Speaker 7 (43:58):
Sure, there's no way that your car could have.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Been out in that area the night that she was
killed October twenty second, right, nineteen ninety seven. There's no
no way your car could have been There's no way
it was parked to my mom's apartment. Or you have
no reason to lie to me, do you?
Speaker 8 (44:16):
No, there's a.
Speaker 7 (44:20):
You can sit here.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
You can even tell me that you were present, and
you still would not be any trouble, in any trouble
with the law.
Speaker 7 (44:28):
You understand that, don't you.
Speaker 8 (44:29):
Yeah, based on the.
Speaker 7 (44:31):
Letter from our prosecutor.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Right, so you could sit there and tell me you
were there and you know you wouldn't get in any trouble, right, right,
So you have no reason to lie.
Speaker 7 (44:39):
I mean you have no reason to fear the legal
system at this point in time.
Speaker 6 (44:41):
Is this correct? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Were you present when Anna Stasia was killed? Do you
know who killed Anna Stationian?
Speaker 6 (44:48):
No?
Speaker 7 (44:50):
Are you telling me the truth?
Speaker 5 (44:51):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (44:54):
They go off tape for a few moments, then come
right back.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Would you be willing to take a life victor tests
to verify what you and I have talked about today?
Speaker 7 (45:04):
Well? I would say yes, but you know I know
the polygraph start. We don't use the polygraph.
Speaker 8 (45:13):
What do you use?
Speaker 7 (45:14):
We use the computer? Voice dressed and analyzer. I would
not wrong with that.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
Okay, we can't do it today, So could I get
with you in the mid air future and Italians agreeable?
That would accommodate both our schedules. Yeah, yeah, well not Yeah,
I guess I need a duel, better commitment than that
assurance in your voice. Yeah, I mean I don't want
to spend get maybe here to do that. That's I mean,
(45:41):
you're telling me the truth absolubly.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
The interview ends soon after.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
So some of Byron's story has definitely changed since he
first told it on October twenty fourth, nineteen ninety seven.
Is it because he's hiding something or is it because
it's been almost two years and time has warped his memory.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Either way, on the whole.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Byron's story has pretty much stayed the same. On November
twenty fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Bob and kill Gore speak again.
It's pretty contentious right off the bat. Bob wants information
about the case and kill Gore isn't giving it up.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
Because this investigation has taken two years, I've granted you
some leadway and it's in looking at this from my perspective,
you must know that I'm very frustrated at what appears as.
Speaker 6 (46:40):
A parent progress in this case, and.
Speaker 7 (46:45):
I think it's about.
Speaker 6 (46:46):
Time that you confirm for me that you're actually doing
something with this.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
Do you have any more information you'd like to add
to this today? Do you have any more information you
like to add to this today? Yes, I'm aware of
(47:19):
friction within this department that makes me suspect that you
have reason not to share the information that you've gained
through your investigation with any other members of this office.
Speaker 7 (47:38):
Excuse me, I miss something?
Speaker 4 (47:39):
Well, are you saying that I'm withholding information from my superiors.
Speaker 7 (47:44):
Or my department?
Speaker 6 (47:46):
Yeah, that would be what I perceive.
Speaker 8 (47:50):
Either that, or do you have a specific example.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
A specific example would be Captain Phillips making statements that
this case is more than likely a murders suicide, while
you are saying no suspects have been released from suspicion
or no one has been cleared, and he seems to
(48:14):
have a direct linkage to my daughter's boyfriend who is
also found dead. Now I must ask you, is justin
a more than likely suspect a primary suspect in this case?
Speaker 7 (48:30):
Just as you prepare many scenarios.
Speaker 8 (48:33):
Of what may or may not have happened, and so
do we, and.
Speaker 7 (48:38):
That would be one of them.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
Then I'm going to draw the conclusion that the people
that were with her that evening are still suspects. Why
as Byray Case was given immunity from prosecution in exchange
for information.
Speaker 7 (48:54):
That he may be with Holy and even with that,
he stayed with the same.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
Circumstances that he started out with from the beginning of
this investigations. Because he doesn't have any immunity from the
people on that list, We're going to see that their
justice is done if he says anything, and by this
department's track record on protecting witnesses, I'd say that he wasn't. Toby,
(49:27):
nor am I going to sit here while you criticize.
You've done that both publicly and nationwide and worldwide. What
avenue would you like me to pursue to get Byron
Case to change his story? Well, he was granted immunity
from prosecution. Immunity doesn't mean anything in this case, because
it means a great deal. Did he take your light
(49:48):
detected testment? I didn't think so he didn't refuse to. Yeah, right,
of course he wouldn't. It's a good a liar maybe
give him too much credit. Well, maybe I don't give
you enough. I'm sorry, But from my perspective, you'll have
to understand I don't see anything happening in this case
(50:09):
except a lot of these people.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Look, it's easy to say Bob's behavior during the investigation
is outrageous, but we can't forget that he is a
grieving father.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Desperate for answers.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
For almost two years, he's been waiting for kil Gore
to find and arrest the person responsible for killing his daughter.
Maybe some of what Bob brings kill Gore is worth
following up on. Maybe Bob gets in his own way
and causes the opposite effect, since kill Gore's told him
he hasn't been ruled out as a suspect. Maybe he's overcompensating.
(50:50):
But I try to imagine my own mom in this
very situation. I think she would have acted with the
same determination as Bob. She also would have launched her
own investigation, moved heaven and earth, basically stopped at nothing
until the killer was tracked down and brought to justice.
So I think Bob does deserve some leeway here.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
On September twenty one, two thousand, almost three years after
Anastasia was murdered.
Speaker 7 (51:21):
Do you know how Anastasia died?
Speaker 8 (51:24):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Next time on The Real Killer.
Speaker 7 (51:32):
Where'd you shoot her?
Speaker 6 (51:33):
At?
Speaker 1 (51:34):
And had an old witness a new story?
Speaker 7 (51:38):
Did she's pretty close to the car? How did she
fall well?
Speaker 6 (51:42):
Back? Well, it was like kind of like an explosion.
Speaker 7 (51:45):
Yeah, it's just I mean, it just knocked her backwards
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
those of the individuals participating in the podcast. If you,
or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis,
please no help is available. Call or text nine eight
eight or chat online at the Suicide and Crisis Lifelines
(52:21):
website at nine eight eight lifeline dot org. To see photos, maps,
and documents related to this season's story, follow The Real
Killer podcast on Instagram and at trk podcast on TikTok.
The Real Killer is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,
(52:45):
hosted by me Leah Rothman Executive producers Leah Rothman and
Elisa Rosen.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
For AYR Media.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Written by Leah Rothman, editing and sound design by Cameron Taggi,
mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. Production coordinator Andy Levine,
audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson. Legal counsel
for AYR Media, Gianni Douglas, Executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya
(53:17):
Howard
A warning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide
that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If
you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to
the end of this episode to find out where help
is available. It's been almost a year since Anastasia Whitbulsfuchen
(00:25):
was murdered and her boyfriend, Justin Bruton took his own life.
Investigators are no closer to making an arrest.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Were you present when Anastasia was killed? Now do you
know if Justin Brutin killed Anastasian?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
No?
Speaker 5 (00:43):
I doubt.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Or are they actually closer than they've ever been before?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm Leah Rothman.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
This is The Real Killer, Episode four. Seriously, Honestly, before
we move forward in the investigation, we need to go
back a bit.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
First.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Let's talk about Tara McDowell, Abraham Nisley's ex girlfriend. Remember
the night of October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven. Supposedly, Justin,
Byron and Kelly went to Abraham's to pick up some
stuff he had of Tara's, then took Kelly home. Then
Byron and Justin went to Tara's to drop the stuff off.
(01:39):
For months, Sergeant Gary Kilgore had been trying to interview Tara.
He was unsuccessful until February third of nineteen ninety eight.
I don't have the audio from her interview, only the transcript,
so from that I will share some of what she said.
Tara tells Kilgore that she was very good friends with
Anastasia and Justin, but she would consider herself Anastasia's confidante.
(02:04):
Tara says, in regard to the night of October twenty second,
she remembers Justin and Byron telling her that they were
going to Abraham's place after hers, not that they had
already been there. If you remember, that's a different order
of events than what Kelly and Byron originally said. Tara
says she doesn't want to make it sound like she
(02:26):
suspected either Byron or Justin of Anastasia's murder, but once
she heard her friend had been killed, she found it
strange that neither of them mentioned having been with Kelly
or Anastasia that night. Tara says, when Anastasia got into
her depressions about Justin, she could be quote very aggravating.
(02:48):
Anastasia would call quote an unbelievable number of times a day.
Tara share is that one time Byron recorded an outgoing
message on his pager that was something like, if this
is Anastasia, don't bother leaving your number or leaving a message,
because nobody's going to call you back. Nobody wants to
talk to you. Tara tells Kilgore that one day, not
(03:10):
long after Anastasia died, she stopped at the Amaico station
to ask where Lincoln Cemetery was. She and some friends
wanted to see the spot where Anastasia had died. There
at the Amaico station, she spoke with a man who
said he had already talked with police about seeing Anastasia
get out of the car that night at the stoplight.
(03:32):
Sounds like Tara's describing Don Rand, the night mechanic at
the Amaico station. So the man told Tara he noticed
Anastasia was walking unusually quick, and she seemed agitated, upset,
and angry. This is not what Don Rand originally told
police back then. When he was asked if Anastasia looked upset,
(03:55):
he said he couldn't tell. According to Tara, this man
said he watched Anniston Deja walk right past him go
across the street and up the hill that leads to
Lincoln's Cemetery, But Tara says he didn't see Anastasia go
into Lincoln, only up the hill, and he didn't say
anything about seeing a car following her. All of this
(04:17):
is new information to kill Gore. Just so you know,
back in nineteen ninety seven off Truman, there was a
road to the left that led to Lincoln Cemetery. Today
that entrance is closed to this man at the Amico station,
who very well may have been don rand see Anastasia
walk up the road that led to Lincoln Cemetery where
(04:41):
she was eventually killed, and if so, why didn't he
tell this too investigators. In regard to Anastasia's family, Tara
says that the relationship with her stepmom Diane wasn't great,
and therefore the one with her dad wasn't either. Tara
tells kil Gore she quote had the impression from Anastasia
(05:02):
quite a few times that there had been some very
distinctive abuse, which Tara believed had happened sometime in the past,
and Tara doesn't know if the alleged abuse was emotional
or physical. She added, quote, I don't know if it
was her father. I don't know if it was her stepfather.
Tera says, having been an abused child herself, she believed
(05:25):
Anastasia obviously lived through something when she was younger. The
conversation eventually turns to Anastasia's clothes. Ta Anastasia would borrow
her sister Fran's clothes a lot and friend was kind
of a hippie, she says. Anastasia was big on jeans
and real simple shirts black. She dressed simply, almost boyishly.
(05:48):
Tera says, Anastasia wore Doc Martins mostly. She had sandals Birkenstocks,
but Tara never saw her wear them, and Tara never
saw Anastasia carry a purse.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Only a'll wallet.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Kil Gore asks Tara if Justin or Byron owned a firearm.
Tara says Justin said at one point he had a gun,
but he got rid of it a couple of months before,
and to the best of her knowledge, Byron did not
own a firearm. However, she says his father may have
owned at least one gun. Then she says, quote, I
(06:23):
wouldn't know. Tara also says if Justin had anything to
do with Anastasia's death, Byron definitely knew about it. So
Tara gives some interesting and some conflicting information. The question
is will any of it help in the investigation. The
other thing that happens in nineteen ninety eight is that
(06:45):
things get a little sticky for Sergeant Kilgore because Bob
writes several complaints about him to his bosses, and a
formal complaint is filed about kil Gore for allegedly disclosing
an underage witness's name, which resulted in her receiving threats
she would be raped, killed, and her family's house burned down.
(07:08):
Between late summer of nineteen ninety eight and the summer
of nineteen ninety nine, the investigation remains in full swing.
Bob continues emailing kil Gore. Justin's dad hires a psychic.
There's talk of a Lincoln Prep curse. That's where Anastasia
and Byron both went to school. More people are interviewed,
and even a Ouiji board is consulted. Jumping forward to
(07:32):
June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Bob meets with Kilgore
at the Sheriff's department. Here's some of their recorded conversation.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
God Whitwell speaking, I understand that you have some additional
new information.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
That's correct.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
As you know in the past that I've given you
a list of vehicles that I've seen in the area.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You might remember from our last episode. Bob is very
fixated on the cars. He says he saw the night
Anastasia was murdered.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Now this is still on the lack of a better word,
the caravan coming down Truman Road as you were standing
at the interest of the Mount Washington's cemetery.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Grant is correct, and as you know, there's already forty
cars on the list.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
In the last several months, the list of cars has
grown from thirty one to forty. Bob says he knows
with every fiber of his being, the drivers of these
cars have at the very least some knowledge of what
happened to Anastasia and the night she was killed.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
And I wanted you to know that I'm so certain about.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
That, I'm willing to swear, testify, and take live detector tests,
take hypnosis whatever to confirm that for you, because if
you're not investigating that, you're not doing a job.
Speaker 7 (08:55):
Just keep it to the information that you're trying to
provide me.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
Please, Yes, I also had occasion to speak to a
friend of.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Pages and who is now a very close friend of
Tara McDowell.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
And she says that she heard.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Byron talking about the events and chronology of the evening, and.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
The story she tells me is that.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Byron, Anastasia, Justin, and Kelly were on Blue Ridge that
evening in front of the cemetery where.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
She was found.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
Who is this individual Allie?
Speaker 8 (09:53):
I don't remember her name.
Speaker 6 (09:54):
I'm sorry, it's been months. I can get it for you.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
So I've never heard the name of Allie.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
She probably would not be willing to come forward and
say these things, but maybe she will.
Speaker 7 (10:10):
Anything else. Mister wigbolsphegan.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
Out at this time. I reserve the possibility to come
in again.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I certainly feel that this has been a productive meeting
that I've been able to share with you what's been
on my mind for several months.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
About three weeks later, on July fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine,
Bob calls Kilgore. He wants to pass on Ali's last name,
but because she was under age at the time, we're
not going to discuss her last.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Name is and she's approximately sixteen years old.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Bob says he recorded an interview with Ali in late
nineteen ninety eight at the coffee shop where Page worked.
During that conversation, Ali told Bob. Not long after Anastasia's murder,
Ali and Byron had a conversation about it.
Speaker 9 (11:03):
Okay, then, if I'm understanding you correctly, Byron Case told
Ali and some of those details again.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Well, specifically that they Anastasia, Justin, Kelly and Byron were
traveling in a vehicle on Blue Ridge Boulevard, that they
stopped in front of the cemetery, and that that is
(11:33):
where the argument took place. And that's where Anastasia get
out of.
Speaker 8 (11:38):
The car at the Lincoln entrance, well on Blue right.
Speaker 9 (11:45):
Okay, And do you know why Byron would tell Ali this?
Speaker 8 (11:51):
Or does Ali? Did Ali say why?
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Allie said that he was just very talkative that she
was there. That No, I don't specifically recall.
Speaker 8 (12:05):
Let me ask you this question, who do you think
killed Anastasia.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (12:12):
Do you think Byron did?
Speaker 5 (12:14):
I think there were many individual presents and near the
name at the time. I don't know who pulled the trigger.
I don't think.
Speaker 8 (12:27):
That person is alive today. But maybe do you think
Justin did it?
Speaker 5 (12:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (12:35):
I thought you just said you don't think that person
is alive today.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
Well, then it might very well have been.
Speaker 8 (12:41):
Justin, So I didn't, you know, I don't want to
make sure I didn't misunderstand.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
I certainly haven't heard anyone anyone mentioned his name, which
it would be a big clue, and to me personally,
that would mean that more than likely.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
He did not.
Speaker 7 (13:00):
Trigger.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Justin Justin did not pull the trigger.
Speaker 9 (13:04):
But that's only if somebody else came up and said, well.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
At this point, I don't know why anyone would protect him.
Speaker 8 (13:13):
Okay, do you honestly think that Justin did it?
Speaker 6 (13:16):
Though?
Speaker 8 (13:16):
No, I'm asking what you think.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
I do not think Justin did it, Okay, I don't
think whoever did it but admit it?
Speaker 8 (13:23):
Okay?
Speaker 9 (13:23):
But you think it's within this this group that with Danastasian,
Byron and Kelly Moffatt.
Speaker 8 (13:29):
And Justin within the group, they were all present when
this happened. Is this what you believe.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Someone who drove their vehicle on the road that evening
that I witnessed pull the trigger.
Speaker 9 (13:43):
But you'd think then, though, that Byron and Justin and
everybody was there. I'm trying to get an understanding of
what you're thinking.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
What I'm thinking is that if they were not immediately
within I sh uh of the scene, they certainly know
what happened. I'm I'm feeling that Justin knew it too,
(14:16):
that he wanted to fess up and tell the truth,
and that someone decided that would not be a good idea,
and in order to keep him quiet, they shot him.
Why no one's coming forward with this information because they
know that who's ever responsible is not beyond keeping someone
(14:41):
else quiet, even if that means killing them.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I'm despite Bob's speculation, Justin's official cause of death has
always been suicide.
Speaker 9 (14:54):
Okay, you've got to You've got a reason then, why
Justin was killed.
Speaker 8 (14:59):
Well, the reason for why Anastasia was killed.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Well, the story that we here repeated that you would
not like to have repeated, that's been discounted for some reason.
Seems to be that there was a game being played
with a gun and that someone unbeknownst to the person
holding the gun, put a bullet in the gun and
(15:27):
that is how she died.
Speaker 9 (15:28):
Okay, And this was taking place at Lincoln Cemetery or
nearby or.
Speaker 8 (15:34):
Nearby, So then that would mean that the body was moved.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
Well, it might mean that I don't think that it
was moved.
Speaker 9 (15:41):
But okay, if it wasn't moved, and it would had
have happened at Lincoln Cemetery and not just nearby, well,
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
I didn't get to benefit by the crime scenean investigation,
but it happened with a number.
Speaker 8 (15:58):
Of people nearby.
Speaker 9 (16:01):
But you believe then it's an argument based on what
Ali says and the argument between Justin and the stage.
It took place on Blue Ridge near the entrance to
Lincoln Cemetery.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
I hear the prevalence of an argument taking place. I
personally don't believe it. I think it's just a convenient one.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
Okay.
Speaker 9 (16:18):
And in any event, and in order to stop and
play a game, they must have resolved their differences at
least for a moment, would you think.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Actually, I don't know under what circumstances a gun would
have been introduced to the scene. Well, I think Byron's
fearing for his life, and that's why he's not telling
the story. So that's probably why he's not the trigger person,
because in the story that we hear, he's only the
(16:47):
person that puts the bullets in the gun.
Speaker 8 (16:49):
And the trigger person is I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
The conversation then turns to Anastatia's close and whether or
not she ever made it home. Remember, Bob believes she
did because he said he found her purse, her blue jeans,
and the washing machine and her underwear soaking in the sink.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
I want to know did they come to my house
sometime that evening? I mean, after all, I find that
I have several descriptions of her wearing blue jeans, and
she's not wearing blue jeans that night. I have a
billfold at home. Well, if the billfold is at home,
(17:31):
how does.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
It get to my house?
Speaker 5 (17:35):
How is it that she's not wearing the same clothes
that four people describe her.
Speaker 8 (17:39):
At Did your a wife remember what she was wearing?
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Well, my wife thought that she was wearing blue jeans,
but she's.
Speaker 9 (17:47):
She was the last one to actually see her out
in your family right.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
And also, mister I believe his name was la Page,
who gave a story that he was driving test driving
a car and saw her in the cemetery that evening,
said that she was wearing blue jeans.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So Bob brings up mister Lapage, George Lapage and his
wife actually called sergeant Kilgore three days after Anastasia's body
was found to offer some information. At that time, mister
Lapage told Kilgore that on October twenty second, while he
and his wife were test driving a car in Mount
Washington Cemetery. Remember that's the cemetery Anastasia was dropped off
(18:34):
At around four point thirty, the Lapages saw a white
female sitting on the steps of the Nelson mausoleum. Mister
Lapage said that the woman approached the car and asked
what time it was. It was around five point thirty
five forty five. The female then told them she was
waiting for her boyfriend to arrive. Missus Lapage believed the
(18:54):
female seemed quote disoriented. In Kilgore's report, the old only
clothing item the Lapages described the female wearing was a
quote brown Swede type jacket, no mention of jeans or shoes. Now,
did Bob talk to the Lapages on his own and
get more information, like Anastasia was wearing blue jeans? If
(19:17):
he did, I don't have any documentation about that. Next,
Bob brings up Glenn Calliver, the caretaker at Mount Washington Cemetery.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Mister Cliver was describing her attire, wearing a corduroy coat
and blue jeans, and suddenly she's not wearing the same clothing.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Remember, mister Cliver saw Anastasia twice that night, once around
five pm and later around seven pm when he ushered
her Justin, Byron and Kelly out of the cemetery because
it was after hours. Two investigators Glenn Cliver never described
Anastasia wearing anything other than a quote dark coat. Bob
(20:03):
spoke with mister Cliver the morning of the twenty third
when he was out looking for Anastasia, and he says
he talked to him again some time after. Is that
when mister Cliver might have told Bob he saw Anastasia
in blue jeans. Anyway, Kilgore and Bob talk a bit
longer than kil Gore wraps it up. By the way,
(20:25):
I don't have any documentation that says Kilgore ever made
contact with Ali to check out her story, or that
he circled back to Glenn Calliver or the Lapages to
see what they saw Anastasia wearing that night. But for
almost a year, Sergeant Kilgore has been wanting, waiting to
talk to one person in particular. He's finally going to
(20:49):
get his chance.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
He just got an ugly Byron Chase.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
On July twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, about twenty one
months after Anastasia was murdered. Byron case is that the
Jackson County Sheriff's Department to speak with Sergeant Kilgore. Byron
now has been granted limited immunity, which means, in exchange
for giving a truthful statement regarding the homicide of Anastasia,
(21:26):
the death of Justin, and the events of October twenty second,
nineteen ninety seven, the state agrees that his statement will
not be used against him. However, if he knowingly provides
false information to the police, his statement could be used
against him in a prosecution for providing false information or
obstructing justice. It seems for this interview Byron is there alone.
(21:49):
There's no mention in Kilgore's report that he had an
attorney present.
Speaker 7 (21:54):
How long have you known? Just a year? Maybeel a
little bit more?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Aren't By discussing Byron's relationship with Justin and Anastasia.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Were pretty good friends, Oh yeah, absolutely, do you live?
I think yeah, for a while we well after he
and Anastasia met, I moved In. I lived with them
for about three months, I guess with Annastasia also, Yeah, yeah,
all three of us, didn't you at one point in
(22:27):
time dated Anastasia. No, she was a friend of mine
from I think we met in the eighth grade. Yeah,
we met in the eighth grade, and we didn't get
along initially, but when we went to high school together we.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
Got pretty close. So, but you had a d It
was only strictly patronic, but you knew her quite well.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Oh yeah, I mean, you know, we were really close friends.
I mean, you know, we cried on each other's shoulders
quite a bit, you know, I mean it was just,
you know, we could pretty much share anything, and you
and justinretty much the same way. I mean, Justin was
I don't know, Justin had a tendency to be kind
of closed off.
Speaker 7 (23:06):
So I mean, you know, when I did get something
out of him.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
It was usually after it had been bothering him for
a long time, so he wasn't really all that open.
But you know, he was very honest at least, and
you know that's something that I really respect. I've heard
and been told that you and Justin a little bit
more than just than the time I.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
Knew that was going to come up.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I heard that rumor, and I don't remember who eckered
it from. But no, Justin and I were always very
very good.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Friends, and it was never.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Anything beyond that, the fact that we hung out together
all the time. And I guess some people were thinking
that Justin might have been gay at the coffee shop.
Speaker 7 (23:58):
They you know, they probably wondered.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
I don't. I never heard any talk about it, but
you know, I would probably have assumed the same thing
if I had been an outsider looking in on something
like that.
Speaker 7 (24:09):
But you buy noo.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, Kilgore goes back to asking about Anastasia.
Speaker 7 (24:19):
You did you always remain with her.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
There were a couple of points when we were well,
there are a couple of points when we were living
together when I would kind of get annoyed by the
fact that her and Justin would fight all the time.
And it was mostly because from my perspective, it was
mostly because she wasn't really happy with the way that
(24:46):
Justin treated her. You know, he wasn't giving her enough
attention or you know, or something like that.
Speaker 7 (24:51):
So I mean it got a little annoying, and you know,
I would go talk to her, and you know try
and I don't media.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Eighth, so I mean it was never, you know, it
was never to the point that I disliked her. Bring
out of the document that was found in Justin's computer.
Speaker 7 (25:16):
Read that at all.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
We talked about this document in episode three. Although there's
no name on it, it seems to have been written
by Anastasia, with the following excerpts being potentially the most
telling quote. I don't care what Byron thinks of me.
I never cared what anyone thought of me until I
loved you. Then I only cared what you thought of me.
Byron can go fuck himself for all I care. The
(25:45):
only person's opinion I care about is yours, So fuck me.
You and Byron deserve each other because that seems to
be the one you want, someone who shares your brain
and your thinking, and so fuck me.
Speaker 7 (25:58):
That sounds the kind of stature meaning in there. That
was weird. I'd never seen that before. Sounds like she's
pretty angry on that. Yeah, sounds like she's pretty.
Speaker 8 (26:11):
Angry in you.
Speaker 7 (26:13):
And I'm trying to.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
Think what that was.
Speaker 7 (26:15):
All that was about. According to the.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Kid peaks in the computer on that, it's a letter
was a creator and his document was created on October twenty,
nineteen ninety seven. Keep in mind the last time you
saw her was October twenty second.
Speaker 7 (26:35):
This was well, it was. It was last saved on
October twenty first. I didn't see ninety as long and
was taken off.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
But jeff right, I'm trying to think of when she
would have justin didn't have email or anything, so I'm
trying to think of when she would have been at
his place to write that.
Speaker 7 (26:55):
I'm going to assume that his computer will be correct.
I don't remember. I'm pretty sure it did. Why would
she be so angry as you were you having problems
with Anastasia. No, but when she got mad, she got
mad at everybody.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
The conversation then turns to clothes and what everyone had
on the night of October twenty seconds.
Speaker 7 (27:22):
Do you think you remember what she was wearing?
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I think, if I remember correctly, that she had on jeans,
and it's because she usually wore jeans, and I don't remember.
Speaker 7 (27:40):
Honestly, don't remember.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
It may have been a T shirt, it may have
been a long sleeve shirt. I'm pretty sure it was gray,
though I seen to remember her having like a gray
T shirt style thing with like a V neck or something.
But I don't remember coat jacket. I don't even remember
(28:03):
if it was cold enough for one, I don't think.
Speaker 7 (28:07):
So I might be wrong on that. Again, you probably
don't remember what you were wearing.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
No, uh, well, knowing Justin, he had like a uniform
kind of that he wore, so it was probably like,
you know, khaki pants and black T shirt and her
white T shirt and a black like zipa jacket pants.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Byron takes Kilgore through that day. He says they picked
up Kelly around four, stopped to get a drink at
the gas station near her house in Lenexa. By the way,
this is the first time Byron is saying they stopped
at a gas station. Then Byron says they went back
to Justin's condo. Anastasia called. She and Justin talked for
a while, arguing about their relationship. Finally just agreed to
(29:00):
pick her up at the Dairy Queen. And when they
got there, Anastasia was not happy.
Speaker 7 (29:05):
That you know what, I said hello. She didn't say
hello back, but you know that was just because she
was like just consumed buyer, you know, being angry. So
you got in the car. What was the seating arrangement?
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Anastasia was in front of me, I was in the
rear seat, and Kelly was sitting on my left behind.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Justin okay, So Anastasia was in the right front, you
were in the right rear, Kelly Moffatt left rear right
jested driving okay.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Byron says they went across the street to Mount Washington
Cemetery as soon as they saw the caretaker they left.
Kilgur then asks Byron to look at a map and
point out where they were exactly and where they went
after Mount Washington. Byron struggles a bit with the map up,
trying to pinpoint what roads they took before ending up
on Truman Road, near the adult bookstore, gas stations and
(30:06):
the I four thirty five, where he says Anastasia got
out of the car. Kilgore asks if Byron had never
been to Lincoln Cemetery before. Byron says he didn't know
where Lincoln Cemetery was until one of their friends and
a Huntsecker showed him.
Speaker 7 (30:23):
No, I'll go there after anastasia body was found.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
I didn't really want to. I mean it just kind
of as you don't creep me out.
Speaker 7 (30:30):
No, I didn't know you've ever been there. Well, yeah,
I mean we've dot it.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
That night when Anna and I month ago, or I
mean a month after she died. I think it might
have been a couple of months because I had no
idea where it was, and you know, people were saying
Lincoln Cemetery where he was That.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Back to the night of the twenty second Byron says,
after Anastasia got out of the car on Truman Road
at the four thirty five, they drove off and where
you go.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
We went back to Justin's condo, and I guess we're
going to just hang out there for a little bit
because Kelly had some time to kill before she had.
Speaker 7 (31:05):
To be home.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
So we went there and Justin wasn't saying anything, and
he was just kind of like sitting in his chair
quietly when we got to the condo, and so Kelly
and I played Nintendo for a little bit, you know,
just like kind of waiting for him to say something,
and you know, nothing was said. And then every now
(31:28):
and again we'd look over the clock to see if
it was time to lead yet. And because I think
Kelly had to be home by nine.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Byron says, they took Kelly home, and while they were there,
Justin called Anastasia's house. That's when they learned she hadn't
made it home yet. At that point, Byron says, Justin
started getting worried about it.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
How much time it left and she got out of
the car. We primarily Justin's house for about a half
hour so, and then right to Kelly's took about a
half an hour, I guess, I don't even probably twenty
minutes to get back Tom Independence or or something like that.
I know, I think it was probably I think he
(32:12):
called a little bit before nine point thirty when he
called on the stage's house, I think, And so about
hour hour and a half two hours, probably more like
an hour hour and a half to two hours.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Was it dark when you dropped her off or when
she got out of the car. Oh yeah, I mean
it was dark when we were at the cemetery, So
so I'm understanding craigly. Then she got out of a
car for thirty five in treatment an hour and a
half or so. As a last Justin calls home.
Speaker 7 (32:43):
She's not there. She only lived a couple of miles
down the road.
Speaker 6 (32:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
Nobody said, well, gee, I wonder where she went or
where she's at, or what had happened to the Well,
I know that Kelly was worried about her, and I was,
you know, once he called and said she's not home yet,
we all just kind of sat there.
Speaker 7 (33:03):
And nobody said, well, gee, maybe we ought to go look, No,
nothing like that.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
We ought to make a few calls through her friends
and see where she's at. She called somebody she is,
she's somewhere now.
Speaker 7 (33:16):
We just called.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
I wonder if she might be dead? Well, we didn't
certainly didn't think that. I let me asked to do
Did you.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Go anywhere else other than take Kelly home?
Speaker 8 (33:27):
No?
Speaker 4 (33:28):
I mean we went to Justin's and to Kelly's and
the didn't make any stuff. No, didn't stop buying Para
McDowell's a fart. Oh I'm sorry, Yes, yes we did.
We went Actually, we went by Terror's apartment because Rom
Abraham needed some stuff. They had just broken up, like
how too long before, and Abraham wanted like the stuff
(33:49):
that he had left over at her apartment. So we
stopped buy a rick her place, and it was pretty,
as I recall.
Speaker 7 (34:01):
We just picked up the bag and left and then
drove over to Abraham's house and dropped it off, and.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
We stayed and talked with him for a while. But
we need to get Kelly back, so we didn't spend
a lot of time there.
Speaker 7 (34:11):
Okay, where'd you go first? We went to Tarra's first
to pick up the stuff the step.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So this is different from what Byron and Kelly had
originally said, which was that once they were back at Justin's,
Byron called Abraham, who had paged him. Then they went
to Abraham's. Then they took Kelly home. Then Byron and
Justin went to Terra's. Now Byron is saying that they
went to Terra's first, then to Abraham's, then they took
(34:38):
Kelly home, but Tara said Kelly wasn't with them, So
which is it? Kilgore asks Byron the next time he
spoke to anyone.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
The next morning, at like nine something, I got a
phone call and I woke up to and it was
Justin on the phone.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
You didn't talk to Kelly later on?
Speaker 6 (35:02):
No?
Speaker 4 (35:02):
I mean I no, she was in bed, and you know,
like I said, I'm pretty sure she had school that day,
Are you sure of that?
Speaker 7 (35:10):
No? I don't even remember what day of the week.
It was on Oh that was the one saying okay
that she probably had school. But no, I mean, I
didn't even think to call her. I mean, like I said,
I was still asleep.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
This is also different, at least according to Kelly. She
said she paged Byron between eleven PM and midnight. Byron
called her back and they talked for a while.
Speaker 7 (35:31):
But anyway, we.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
See what I find, you know, difficult to believe at
this point about is that you've said that you know,
Justin were inseparable, she were the best of friends.
Speaker 7 (35:43):
And here is his girlfriend bailed.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Out of the car, and in the next days you
hear everybody here is that she's been murdered Lincoln Cemetery,
just probably one hundred and.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
Fifty yards or so away from she exited the car
for thirty five and tournament. Justin calls you about nine
nine thirty in the morning, and probably thirty minutes to
an hour later he's over in can just buying a shotgun.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Two days later he's found he's head blown off. All
of this is pretty important stuff in a person's life.
I would say you were one of the last ones
to see Anna Stadium. You were the last one to
talk to fiant of his friends or excuse he was
the last one to talk to you, being of the
friends group, naturally had to talk to somebody else by
(36:29):
a shot.
Speaker 7 (36:29):
Again, this type of stuff.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
I kind it hard to believe that he didn't share
some of this with you, some of what just the
fact that it was nine o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 7 (36:37):
Maybe Justin already knew she was dead, but it wasn't
even released, like as far as I know it did
Justin do you think he did?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
He think he maybe he went out and looked for
I can't imagine. I mean, unless it had been pre
planned or something.
Speaker 7 (36:53):
Nobody know always where an stage is at. Justin knows
that she's not home, right, Okay, had just In that
intensitive and uncaring an individual that he wouldn't go look
for a girl that he's known for how long? Remember
how long they did it?
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Then he's been intimate with that, he's obviously had feelings for.
And this is where I get a little bit to
the point where I have problems that Justin wouldn't share
something with you. Yeah, and at nine o'clock he had
to be knowing that he was going to go buy
a shotgun and that subsequently he was going to commit suicide.
(37:30):
He had to know that when he talked to you,
and as close and inseparable as you guys are, I
find it hard to believe that he didn't say something. Well,
and that's what I've been trying to, like justify for
a really long time, is you know, if we were
so close, then why if he had anything to do
(37:53):
with it, why didn't he tell him?
Speaker 7 (37:54):
Did just to tell you anything about in the stage
of being did?
Speaker 6 (37:58):
No?
Speaker 7 (37:59):
Do you know if Justin was present when Anastasia was killed?
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
You have nothing to fear, Okay, I mean, you have
no reason to not tell me the truth, right yim.
Speaker 7 (38:14):
I'm not going to jump up and arrest you. Are
you being honest and truthful with me? By him? Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (38:20):
And Justin didn't give any indication that he was going
to go buy a shot again and go Floyd's head.
Speaker 6 (38:26):
No.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
I mean if he had, I would have, you know,
immediately gone over there, you know, to stop him. There's
an individual it says they're positive that they saw in
your car on Truman Road had approximately eleven forty five
on October twenty second, the night that Anastasia was killed
(38:48):
web October twenty second.
Speaker 7 (38:51):
That's when you picked up Fantastasia, the dairy queen. She
got out of the car for thirty five and Truman
and here at eleven forty five at night, I had
an individual wares. So your car license plates morbid right
on Truman Road that night.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Sergeant Kilgore just told Byron that someone reported seeing his
car with his morbid license plates driving down Truman Road
around eleven forty five the night Anastasia was murdered.
Speaker 7 (39:33):
That night, my car was parked in my mom's place.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Remember in the last episode, Byron's lawyer said his car
was in the shop the night Anastasia was murdered. So
on the night of October twenty second, was Byron's car
at the shop, at his mom's or on Truman Road.
Speaker 7 (39:53):
Why the way did you guys go back out and
work brand and stead do that night?
Speaker 8 (39:57):
No?
Speaker 7 (39:57):
I stayed home and my mom was there.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
She knows that, Like you know, if I come in,
I mean she would have heard me lead again, Okay,
I was there when I was at my mom's house.
Speaker 7 (40:08):
He didn't go out, No, he didn't.
Speaker 8 (40:10):
Go back out.
Speaker 7 (40:10):
More of it is not in common license plate. Yeah,
I don't know it. Just didn't go back out and
look for nd stage that night.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
As far as I know he I mean, I only
know what he told me, and he said that he
was going how to sleep.
Speaker 7 (40:23):
Well that was all I mean, that was the only
conversation that we have.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
But then you would agree with me then when you
spoke with him at nine or nine thirty that morning,
he knew what he was going to do.
Speaker 7 (40:34):
He must have. You were a reasonably intelligent young man.
I mean, what conclusion would you draw?
Speaker 6 (40:40):
You know? He must have.
Speaker 7 (40:41):
Yeah, he did know that. And you being the last
person that I know that he.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Talked to in his in his group of his friends,
of his associates, that he personally knew, You're the last.
Speaker 7 (40:52):
One, and you and him were your word inseparable. I think,
what did he tell you? I'm sure that that's all
that he said.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
And I'm one positive that all that he said to
me was I in troubles sleeping last night, and you know,
I told him that I was tired and wanted to
go back to.
Speaker 7 (41:12):
Sleep, and we agreed to talk later.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Did justin give you any indication prior to that phone
call that he was going to commit suicide.
Speaker 7 (41:20):
No, I mean I had no idea. I assumed if
anything that, you know, after all of this happened.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
You know, Kelly and I were kind of doubting ourselves
even you know, in the friendship that we had, thinking
that maybe he might have done it, and you know,
if he did, we kind of we tried to hypothesize,
like where he would be, what he would be doing.
Speaker 7 (41:41):
And why would he kill Anastation exactly?
Speaker 6 (41:44):
And that.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
He's as far as I know, he had no reason
to why would he kill himself?
Speaker 7 (41:52):
Yeah, I mean I don't have any idea. Is there
another person involved with this that you were afraid of? Involved?
Mean that somebody else killed Anastasian and that justin knew it.
I can't imagine. And so this his whole suicide is
just a staged because maybe he was going to talk
(42:13):
talk about that he knew who killed her. I'm looking
for an answer.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
I can't believe that that is possible because I mean,
like I said, we were I mean just the four
of us were best friends and.
Speaker 7 (42:31):
We never really.
Speaker 6 (42:34):
Did you guys ever play with guns?
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Were you up in that cemetery playing with a gun
and something happened no, seriously, now, seriously, honestly, honestly, did
you go out and look for Anastasia that night?
Speaker 7 (42:47):
Do you know of anybody that did? Nobody except her dad?
What do you know about that? What did you talk
to him?
Speaker 4 (42:56):
I've talked to him a couple of times, once at
the funeral, and I think I ran into a must
person that I don't really remember.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
If you heard from anybody that your car was seen.
I was near the area of Lincoln Cemetery the night
that Anastasia was killed. Just to you, I haven't heard
anything about that, and you are telling me now that
you were not there.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Absolutely, I was in Justin's car the whole night, and
I don't even think I drove my card all that day.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
If you had to, if you had to provide me
with the name of who might know what happened, who
would that be? Who would Anastasia turned to when she
exited that vehicle?
Speaker 7 (43:44):
Her dad? I mean, that's the only person that I
can think of.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Sergeant Kilgore presses Byron, did you.
Speaker 7 (43:53):
Kill Anna Stasian? Did you kill Anastasian?
Speaker 8 (43:57):
No?
Speaker 7 (43:58):
Sure, there's no way that your car could have.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Been out in that area the night that she was
killed October twenty second, right, nineteen ninety seven. There's no
no way your car could have been There's no way
it was parked to my mom's apartment. Or you have
no reason to lie to me, do you?
Speaker 8 (44:16):
No, there's a.
Speaker 7 (44:20):
You can sit here.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
You can even tell me that you were present, and
you still would not be any trouble, in any trouble
with the law.
Speaker 7 (44:28):
You understand that, don't you.
Speaker 8 (44:29):
Yeah, based on the.
Speaker 7 (44:31):
Letter from our prosecutor.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Right, so you could sit there and tell me you
were there and you know you wouldn't get in any trouble, right, right,
So you have no reason to lie.
Speaker 7 (44:39):
I mean you have no reason to fear the legal
system at this point in time.
Speaker 6 (44:41):
Is this correct? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Were you present when Anna Stasia was killed? Do you
know who killed Anna Stationian?
Speaker 6 (44:48):
No?
Speaker 7 (44:50):
Are you telling me the truth?
Speaker 5 (44:51):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (44:54):
They go off tape for a few moments, then come
right back.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Would you be willing to take a life victor tests
to verify what you and I have talked about today?
Speaker 7 (45:04):
Well? I would say yes, but you know I know
the polygraph start. We don't use the polygraph.
Speaker 8 (45:13):
What do you use?
Speaker 7 (45:14):
We use the computer? Voice dressed and analyzer. I would
not wrong with that.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
Okay, we can't do it today, So could I get
with you in the mid air future and Italians agreeable?
That would accommodate both our schedules. Yeah, yeah, well not Yeah,
I guess I need a duel, better commitment than that
assurance in your voice. Yeah, I mean I don't want
to spend get maybe here to do that. That's I mean,
(45:41):
you're telling me the truth absolubly.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
The interview ends soon after.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
So some of Byron's story has definitely changed since he
first told it on October twenty fourth, nineteen ninety seven.
Is it because he's hiding something or is it because
it's been almost two years and time has warped his memory.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Either way, on the whole.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Byron's story has pretty much stayed the same. On November
twenty fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Bob and kill Gore speak again.
It's pretty contentious right off the bat. Bob wants information
about the case and kill Gore isn't giving it up.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
Because this investigation has taken two years, I've granted you
some leadway and it's in looking at this from my perspective,
you must know that I'm very frustrated at what appears as.
Speaker 6 (46:40):
A parent progress in this case, and.
Speaker 7 (46:45):
I think it's about.
Speaker 6 (46:46):
Time that you confirm for me that you're actually doing
something with this.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
Do you have any more information you'd like to add
to this today? Do you have any more information you
like to add to this today? Yes, I'm aware of
(47:19):
friction within this department that makes me suspect that you
have reason not to share the information that you've gained
through your investigation with any other members of this office.
Speaker 7 (47:38):
Excuse me, I miss something?
Speaker 4 (47:39):
Well, are you saying that I'm withholding information from my superiors.
Speaker 7 (47:44):
Or my department?
Speaker 6 (47:46):
Yeah, that would be what I perceive.
Speaker 8 (47:50):
Either that, or do you have a specific example.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
A specific example would be Captain Phillips making statements that
this case is more than likely a murders suicide, while
you are saying no suspects have been released from suspicion
or no one has been cleared, and he seems to
(48:14):
have a direct linkage to my daughter's boyfriend who is
also found dead. Now I must ask you, is justin
a more than likely suspect a primary suspect in this case?
Speaker 7 (48:30):
Just as you prepare many scenarios.
Speaker 8 (48:33):
Of what may or may not have happened, and so
do we, and.
Speaker 7 (48:38):
That would be one of them.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
Then I'm going to draw the conclusion that the people
that were with her that evening are still suspects. Why
as Byray Case was given immunity from prosecution in exchange
for information.
Speaker 7 (48:54):
That he may be with Holy and even with that,
he stayed with the same.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
Circumstances that he started out with from the beginning of
this investigations. Because he doesn't have any immunity from the
people on that list, We're going to see that their
justice is done if he says anything, and by this
department's track record on protecting witnesses, I'd say that he wasn't. Toby,
(49:27):
nor am I going to sit here while you criticize.
You've done that both publicly and nationwide and worldwide. What
avenue would you like me to pursue to get Byron
Case to change his story? Well, he was granted immunity
from prosecution. Immunity doesn't mean anything in this case, because
it means a great deal. Did he take your light
(49:48):
detected testment? I didn't think so he didn't refuse to. Yeah, right,
of course he wouldn't. It's a good a liar maybe
give him too much credit. Well, maybe I don't give
you enough. I'm sorry, But from my perspective, you'll have
to understand I don't see anything happening in this case
(50:09):
except a lot of these people.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Look, it's easy to say Bob's behavior during the investigation
is outrageous, but we can't forget that he is a
grieving father.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Desperate for answers.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
For almost two years, he's been waiting for kil Gore
to find and arrest the person responsible for killing his daughter.
Maybe some of what Bob brings kill Gore is worth
following up on. Maybe Bob gets in his own way
and causes the opposite effect, since kill Gore's told him
he hasn't been ruled out as a suspect. Maybe he's overcompensating.
(50:50):
But I try to imagine my own mom in this
very situation. I think she would have acted with the
same determination as Bob. She also would have launched her
own investigation, moved heaven and earth, basically stopped at nothing
until the killer was tracked down and brought to justice.
So I think Bob does deserve some leeway here.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
On September twenty one, two thousand, almost three years after
Anastasia was murdered.
Speaker 7 (51:21):
Do you know how Anastasia died?
Speaker 8 (51:24):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Next time on The Real Killer.
Speaker 7 (51:32):
Where'd you shoot her?
Speaker 6 (51:33):
At?
Speaker 1 (51:34):
And had an old witness a new story?
Speaker 7 (51:38):
Did she's pretty close to the car? How did she
fall well?
Speaker 6 (51:42):
Back? Well, it was like kind of like an explosion.
Speaker 7 (51:45):
Yeah, it's just I mean, it just knocked her backwards
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
those of the individuals participating in the podcast. If you,
or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis,
please no help is available. Call or text nine eight
eight or chat online at the Suicide and Crisis Lifelines
(52:21):
website at nine eight eight lifeline dot org. To see photos, maps,
and documents related to this season's story, follow The Real
Killer podcast on Instagram and at trk podcast on TikTok.
The Real Killer is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,
(52:45):
hosted by me Leah Rothman Executive producers Leah Rothman and
Elisa Rosen.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
For AYR Media.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
Written by Leah Rothman, editing and sound design by Cameron Taggi,
mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. Production coordinator Andy Levine,
audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson. Legal counsel
for AYR Media, Gianni Douglas, Executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya
(53:17):
Howard
Host
Leah Rothman
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