The Real Killer Season 3: Ep. 14, Bring It

In the second and final part of our conversation with Kelly Moffett, she shares what she remembers about the night Anastasia was murdered, the circumstances surrounding the June 5th recorded phone call, and how she feels about the allegations she pointed the finger at Byron simply out of revenge.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
A warning.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide
that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If
you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to
the end of this episode to find out where help
is available. I don't want to scare you. We're on

(00:23):
page four of fourteen.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Oh lord, Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
I continue my conversation with Kelly Moffatt, who came forward
almost three years after Anastasia Whitpbules Fuchen was murdered to
say her then boyfriend Byron Case is the real killer.
I said it to you from the very beginning, I
think when I wrote to you more than a year ago.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
God, I can't believe it's been them all.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
That I was going into this story just looking for
the truth. I'm just looking for the truth. I'm Leah Rothman.
This is the Real Killer, Episode fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Bring it.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Before we can continue with part two of my interview
with Kelly, we must talk about something quite shocking that
has just been revealed to me. On Tuesday night, before
this Thursday episode was to come out, Kelly sends me
screenshots from her littering case. It shows that her sentence

(01:42):
was to pay a fine. Remember that's what she said
in the last episode. And she was really confused because
she didn't remember spending forty eight hours in jail and
getting two years probation. So I sent her the docket
I have, which includes the sentence of forty eight hours
of shock jail time and two years probation. Within minutes,

(02:05):
Kelly texts me that there is a case number on
the docket that doesn't match hers. At first, I don't
see what she's seeing. Then I do. I immediately look up
the other case number and it belongs to some guy
named Brendan who passed some bad checks back in nineteen

(02:25):
ninety nine. To say I am stunned and embarrassed is
a major understatement. I ask Kelly if we can talk
on the phone, and that I won't record the call.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
She says yes.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
One of the first things she says to me is
do you believe me? Now? While on the phone, we
both look at the other guy's docket and Kelly points
out that although there's no mention of him being sentenced
to forty eight hours shock jail time, he was sentenced
to unsupervised probation for seven hundred in thirty one days,

(03:02):
so basically two years and one day of probation. This
has to be a horrible clerical error, right. Kelly said, yes,
there are things she can't remember, but she remembers the
important stuff, like Byron killed Anastasia, and that she never
spent forty eight hours in jail and was given two

(03:23):
years probation, which makes more sense because in the last episode,
when I asked her about how she said in her
deposition she had never been in trouble with the law,
she said she didn't consider a littering charge and paying
a fine a big deal, which, by the way, there
is a separate page in her docket that says her

(03:44):
sentence was only to pay a fine of fourteen dollars
and ninety five cents. For someone who takes her job
very seriously and works hard to get all of the
facts correct, this is a very bad oversight on my part.
I apologize to Kelly, which she graciously accepts. She says,

(04:07):
this is the kind of stuff Byron's legal team has
been doing to try and discredit her. She asks me
if I think they did it on purpose or do
they just not know how to read a court docket.
I need to know what Byron's legal team is going
to say about this. Remember, they allege that Kelly came
forward because there was some behind the scenes maneuvering to

(04:29):
get her out of legal trouble in exchange for her
pointing the finger at Byron. Now that it's clear there
was none of that, As Kelly maintained in our last episode,
a big part of their case falls apart. I will
ask them about all of this and have that for
you in our next and final episode. Okay, getting back

(04:54):
to the second part of our interview, Kelly and I
now get into the nitty gritty of what she says
happened that fateful evening in Lincoln Cemetery just minutes before
Anastasia was murdered. If I understand correctly, you were sitting
in the passenger backseat. Yeah, I think you said where

(05:14):
was an Anastasia was standing sort of like back back
window on the driver's side, yes, and Justin was more
towards the front of the car on the driver side.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Could see him. I could definitely see Anastasia, and then
I heard the trunk pop, and then that's when I
looked over and I looked out the window. Definitely what
do you remember saying it was Okay, how do I
do this? I don't want to make noise on your table. Okay.
Say you're looking out the window. Someone's here, someone's here.

(05:51):
It's kind of an angle. So that's Anastasia, this is Byron.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
You know what you do it out here on this table,
it's okay.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
So here's Anna Stasier standing here, here's Justin, here's Byron
popping the trunk, and then they're both they're kind of
parallel to me.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
So if this is the car, yeah, headlights, yes, okay, okay.
And then, in an attempt to get an understanding of
where Kelly says everyone was at the time of the murder,
on a scrap piece of paper, I draw a car
with headlights. Then I asked Kelly to show me where Justin, Anastasia,
and eventually Byron were standing. If you want to see

(06:34):
this very rudimentary drawing, I'm posting it on the Real
Killer Podcast Instagram page.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay, and then cause you yeah, here's me in the
back passenger seat, like, here's Justin standing here, here's Anne
stays you're right there, Byron pump pops the trunk and
then is like, right here, actually I should put myself

(07:03):
further back. It's they were at an angle, so I
could definitely see her face and everything, and when he
lifted up the gun, but it was no wonder. I
didn't know how long the gun was just because I
could see his arm left up her face blah blah blah.
But you know, when something's completely parallel and they're both opaque,

(07:26):
it kind of blocks.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
The right in line with each other.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
It's like it was, it was aligned with each other,
but I could still see her face and whatnot. And
then also, my husband's one of those people that researches everything,
and he actually said he was like, well, no, because
five feet actually makes more sense because if it was
a longer gun or whatever and he had to raise

(07:50):
it up, the gun was probably you know, yay long,
and then it could have still really been in her face,
you know. So I don't know why they're Also also
I was a teenage girl that didn't know anything about guns.
I did the best I could with giving them the explanation.

(08:12):
Sergeant Kilgore, yeah, and he kept trying to get me
to commit to a length, and I'm like, I don't know.
It was dusk, it was freaking to me, that's a
mute point. And of course I know in trials you
want to get everything as exact as possible, but that's
not how life works. That's just not I didn't know

(08:33):
anything about guns. I didn't. All I know is that
she he shot or as she fell, and then it
was a scramble like to get back in the car.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
And when I do have to say after our interview,
some days later, I messaged Kelly and told her I
had a couple of follow up questions. One was regarding
the drawing. I wondered how Byron could have gotten out
of the car from the dry side and made his
way to the trunk if Justin and Anastasia were standing

(09:05):
right there. Did Byron go in between them? I didn't understand,
so I asked Kelly, and she sends this voice message,
believing the question came from Byron's legal team and not me.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
The map is very simple to follow. I'm not going
into the whole god out of the car, all the
stupid fucking crap. I stick to my original testimony. Byron
just down up to this. I am so sick of this.
It makes me feel horrible about my entire involvement in
all this. I just I feel disgusting after talking about
all this stuff, and he could give a shit less

(09:42):
quit picking at maps and little Timmy Jesus Christ, you
got out of the car and you popped the trunk
and you killed her again.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
I let Kelly know it was my question and not
one coming from Byron's legal team. I'm sorry my follow
up question caused her so much stress. But one more
thing that I remembered even later. Kelly said she was
sitting in the back passenger seat behind Anastasia, Byron had
been sitting behind Justin. But Byron said the opposite that

(10:18):
after they left the Dairy Queen and then Mount Washington Cemetery,
he was sitting in the back passenger seat behind Anastasia
and Kelly had been sitting behind Justin. I wonder who
was telling the truth. Okay, back to Kelly in our
sit down interview, I think you said when you came forward,

(10:41):
you said that the gun that Byron said the gun
had came from his dad's or did you say that
you said that the gun had come from his dad's.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
I don't think I knew. I think I said, now,
don't quote me on this like I said, it's been
so long. I had thought that I had seen a
gun like a mountain on the wall at his dad's house,
and so I assumed that that was the gun. But
I don't you know.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
I'm going to get to the affidavits that they got later.
But when doctor Young says your description of anestatia being
blown backwards was Hollywood style fiction, what do you say
to that?

Speaker 1 (11:20):
I don't even know they're talking about, because then the
guy on that Unlocking the Truth said that I would
have had to be a lying genius to get it
like I got it well. And what is that I
don't even understand. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
I mean, I if you listen to that episode. Kelly
is referring to when doctor Thomas Young was interviewed by
Ryan Ferguson on MTV's Unlocking the Truth. I think it
was episode ten where doctor Young, you know, gives it
writes an affidavit for Byron's legal team, saying that what
you described was not forensically possible. However, on the sun

(11:58):
Last Thing, Yeah, Locking the Truth show, he said what
you did say made sense.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
So what is that?

Speaker 2 (12:06):
What do you make of a medical examiner who says
to like conflicting diametrically posed things like so that makes.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
No sense to me and just shows me that they
don't know what they're talking about either, I mean, and also,
don't some of these people get paid to be expert
witnesses suddenly and stuff. I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
I don't know that he was, but I don't care.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
I mean, this is gonna sound whatever. I don't care
what they say. I know what I saw. You know,
I would love for everything to fit into all these
little perfect boxes so that everything lined up. But like
I said, if you know much about the science of memory,
that's not how stuff works. And also like I was

(12:57):
a kid who knew nothing about gun and nothing about
I mean, I did the best I could.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
A very specific thing that you said when you came
forward forward was that Justin was yelling in German basically
stop don't do it?

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Had you heard them talking German to each other?

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Before? Yeah? Well, like I said, help, Like to me,
that's pretty that is such specific circumstances, like how did
I make that up? You? When I make that up?
And also with all this stuff I think coming forward,
like I destroyed my own life. It was already destroyed

(13:42):
with all the guilt and stuff too. I had no
idea if I was going to get immunity. I was
scared to death. I didn't you know, I didn't know
if I was going to be charged with murderers. Well,
I mean I almost thought that that was like what
I deserved and stuff. Idea and then also for the
rest of my life. If you google me, that is

(14:05):
immediately what pops up. You know, I've had people at
jobs figure it out and stuff. Why would I just
announce to the world that, you know, because of me,
someone is dead. That makes no sense to get back at.
I mean, it's just so stupid.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Right because it's been alleged that you were so angry
that Byron was moving to Saint Louis and leaving you,
leaving you period, whether it was like you know, because
he would give you money and showers and stuff like that, you.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Just didn't do any of that. He flat out didn't
do any of that. I wouldn't have wanted him to.
I was scared of him, and I thought he was
a piece of shit. He never I don't know where
he's even getting that.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
So you did not come forward out of revenge.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Revenge for what. Sorry, I broke up with him. I
got a new boyfriend right afterwards. I got someone that
was age appropriate that I just did not want anything
to do with him anymore. Why would I care if
he moved? I mean probably a little bit, because it

(15:25):
was like he was not emotionally affected by any of
this and just seemed to be doing whatever. Do you
know this? Do you know that after all this, he
drove around in some hooptie with a pitchfork on his
car with a rotting chicken carcass on it. What you

(15:48):
need to look that up? Yeah? After and so that
was another thing that it was basically known that he
was a murderer and stuff in Westport. Yeah, No, he
thought it was funny. Okay. He literally had a pitchfork
that he welded to the front of his car that

(16:10):
had a rotting chicken hang off, and he drove it
around Westport and he thought it was hilarious. This is
after he'd been a suspect in her murder.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
My mouth is a gape at this story, and I'm
adding it to the growing list of questions I have
for Byron. I then asked Kelly how she thought the
story Byron had allegedly concocted that Anastasia got out of
the car on Truman Road walked off, never to be
seen by any of them. Ever again, oh would hold up.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
I think he thought he was smarter than the police.
I think he definitely thought he was smarter than me.
That's why I think he whatever the tacit admission shit
is is because I thought I mean, I think he
thought that he had me geared and I was never
going to come forward and do anything. And you know,

(17:04):
and now I've said, like, just fuck him. I don't
I rarely or not rarely, I never say that I
hate people. But he's a pretty I mean, I don't
even have sympathy for him, like I said, because that
driving around you know where her sisters can see with

(17:24):
a rotting chicken on your car, his little license plates
that said morbid and said atheist and blah blah blah.
But it was basically like he was taunting whatever. Yeah,
he definitely thought that he was the smartest guy in
the room. He also thought he was the most interesting
guy in the room. He thought a lot of things.

(17:47):
I don't know where he ever got that idea.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
In the time between you coming forward and the June fifth,
two thousand and one recorded call, the TUSSED mission call. Yeah,
what was life like for you during those months?

Speaker 1 (18:03):
It was stressful. I was afraid, because that's another thing.
He's like, Oh, she was stalking me, she knew my
number here, she knew my number there, blah blah blah.
The police gave me those numbers so I could call
him and try to get him to admit to something
over the phone. Yeah, that was really really stressful because

(18:23):
I knew that, you know, the case hung on that,
and I'm just so sick of the whole like, did
he say we shouldn't talk about this? Did he say
we should talk about it? The whole point is that
he didn't say, you crazy bitch. I didn't kill her.
I mean he didn't even. In fact, he sat there

(18:45):
and listened to me ramble for a very long time.
He's just I can't believe these people believe this shit
that he's saying. It's just so stupid. It's not I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
I asked more about the circumstances surrounding the June fifth
recorded phone call. Do you remember why you felt like
tonight like I'm gonna try again while Angie's here.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
It was just out of desperation because the deadline was
getting more and more. What deadline to call him and
get him to admit to something. I mean, not really deadline.
They had just that thing had been hooked up in
my house for a very long time, and I hadn't
had any I think it was just summoning in touch
with him. But then I remember that someone had informed

(19:40):
me that they thought that he was back at his
mom's house, and so I was just like, Okay, one
more time, let's try to you know. And did you
also notice with him supposedly saying that he gave me
money and helped me shower and stuff, he never once
in that conversation and was like, look, I can't give

(20:01):
you any more money, I can't blah blah blah, stop
calling me about that, none of that.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Had you ever asked him point blank like why did
you like like you did on that call, Why did
you feel the need to kill her? Had you ever
asked him that before?

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Not in the exact way, but yeah, I had definitely
said before, like that night where he like pinned me
up against the wall but my neck when I confronted
him about being a murderer. I was like, where on earth? Like,
how did you guys even start talking about this? I'm like,
Justin was not that type of person, Like he just was.

(20:42):
He was very lost. Like I said, I think he
was very mentally ill. But also Justin didn't his screensaver wasn't,
you know, crime scene photos and stuff. And Byron had
also told me stuff. This was another reason why I
thought he was full of crap. He had told me
that he participated in necrophilia and all kinds of stuff before,

(21:04):
and I was like, yeah, okay, I just didn't Yeah,
a sixteen year old had access to it. I don't
know he.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Just what did you? I steer Kelly back to the
June fifth TACIT admission phone call. There supposedly was some
plane closed law enforcement person there. Who was that person?

Speaker 1 (21:29):
I do not remember that. I was drinking a lot
back then, and she was drinking a lot back then.
I'm not going to speak for her, but we were
both drinking that night, so I don't know how clear
her memory of that is either or if that was.

(21:51):
You know, people can be very suggestible. I don't remember
a plane closed in anybody.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Because it was the end, Like night that you called him,
So that would be very late to have something now.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
And it's sure as hell wasn't Amy McGowan whatever they're
trying to say. I just remember it was not Amy McGowan. No,
hell no.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Amy McGowan was the first prosecutor on the case. We
talked about her in episode ten.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
From my recollection. There was no plane, clothes, anybody there.
And because I had tried so many times and was
unable to get in touch with him that I think
that they thought maybe it was like a lost cause.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Do you think he knew he was being recorded?

Speaker 1 (22:39):
I think he uh suspected it because, like I said,
he did. I didn't want anything to do with him
at all, and he knew that, So why on earth
would I be calling him other than something. I definitely
think he's thought maybe something was going on because he
barely said me. But then also, okay, if there was all,

(23:04):
this is another thing that doesn't make any sense to
me either about like what his legal team says. If
there was nothing to that, why did he keep wanting
to meet in person and talk about it but not
on the phone. The Jackson County prosecutor wouldn't let me
go because they were afraid he was going to kill me.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, because he wanted to meet the next day at
Loose Park, right, Yeah, he wanted to meet.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Alone, like in you know, some kind of deserted part
of the park, and they were like absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
If you had been allowed to go meet Byron the
next day at the park. How did you imagine that
conversation going. What did I think what actually happened. Definitely
thought that he would try to threaten me or kill me,
or maybe he really would say, look the store, not

(24:00):
that complicated. I told you, We told you know, she
got out of the car here at Truman Road and
she blah blah blah, you know something like that. Do
you remember how you felt after that call ended.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
I was very relieved that I had gotten in contact
with him, but I was also very very nervous because
he had been over to my parents' house like countless times,
and I know that he knew where they lived. I
was also wondering if he was gonna skip town before

(24:35):
they got a chance to arrest him. Yeah, just a
fear of retaliation and all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
How did you feel when you learned that he had
been arrested?

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Very relieved, But I also knew that unless they literally
I knew his type of personality, unless they literally showed
him a video of him killing her. I was like,
he's just gonna He's been lying for so long, his
entire life and persona is a lie, that he's just

(25:06):
gonna you know, that's all he's gonna do, because for him,
that's no big deal.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Is the next time you see him at trial?

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yes? And what was that like? That was kind of
interesting because I was afraid that I was gonna be
more scared of him. I was extremely angry. I was
just like, you're not because, like I said, like I've
just felt I'm like, like, you don't even have enough

(25:38):
dignity to maybe. I mean, he could have pled guilty
to manslaughter, he could have done anything. I was just like,
you're this fucking arrogant that you're gonna make her family
and Justin's family go through all this. But of course,
because that's that's who he was, that's who he is.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
When you were on the stand, did you look over
at Byron, did you lock eyes?

Speaker 1 (26:01):
I'd glanced at him, but no, I don't think so,
because for me, that just it wasn't about him. Anymore.
It was about Anastasia. And I was pissed, and I
just I don't know. It was like something took over.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
When he When Byron is convicted and sentenced to life
in prison, how do you feel, how did you feel good?

Speaker 1 (26:26):
And I was also extremely mad because, like I said,
by that point, I had found out that he had
told Brum, he told Tara he'd told all this stuff.
And I was like, and none of you people are
gonna say shit. And I was, like, I said, I
was flabbergasted that all these people older than me that

(26:47):
knew about this were still sticking to their guns on
the bullshit story or whatever.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
I asked Abraham about these allegations that Byron had confessed
to and Tara that he killed Anastasia. Abraham says, this
quote that is absolutely a lie. Tara always expressed to
me a belief that Byron was innocent. I don't believe
she would ever cover for Anastasia's murderer. She and Anastasia

(27:17):
were really close. I obviously can't speak for her, but
I can say for certain that Byron never told me
anything other than he was innocent. But Kelly says she
was present for at least one strange interaction between Byron
and Tarah.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
This was one particular I don't know if I've told
you this before, but you know, he told Tara McDowell
and she ended up dying. But there was one particular
time where Byron kind of just out of the blue,
which is another thing where, like I said, I think

(27:55):
he just thought he was so much smarter than me
and whatever. He took me with him over to Tara's apartment.
I believe Tara and that stupid Braven guy were there.
He said that he didn't think that Tara had heard

(28:16):
about Anastasia's death yet and that she needed to hear
about it from a friend. But the whole I'm like,
why do I need to be here? Because I barely
knew Tara whatsoever. I didn't particularly like her either, and
the whole thing just felt very set up, very whatever.

(28:42):
It felt very theatrical, and of course she put on
this big performance when he told her that Anastasia was dead.
She was like, hold on, I just need a second,
Oh my goodness, and she went into the back bedroom
and Byron just had this like shit, a grin, like
good job, Tara. That was a great performance type thing,

(29:04):
and then she came back, and the whole time I
was like, he's wanting me to see this, like there's
no way, like this girl knows this. And then yeah,
it turns out that I was right. There was a
lot of stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Did you share any of that with Teresa Crayon or
Amy McGowan at the time that Iron had told other people?
Because I don't think that ever came out a trial.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
I don't think that I had much information on that
at the time. There was speculation and stuff, But yeah,
it was later on that I found out, you know.
But I also knew that the girl that had been
threatened and roughed up wanted absolutely nothing to do with
the situation because she was scared.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Let me ask you this question, why do you think
Byron felt comfortable moving away to Saint Louis knowing that
you could have very well gone and spilt the beans.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Like you said, the smartest person in the room, and
like I said, he used to always tell me like,
you're just as guilty as I am, blah blah blah.
I think he didn't think that I had like the
guts to do it, and I also think that he
thought he had more control over me than he did,

(30:45):
which to me is pretty laughable.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
When you first came forward, I think you said that
the gun was dumped close ish to Lincoln Cemetery, and
then when you went out with Kilgore, it seemed to
be further away. Any thing you want to say about
that or yesterday I was.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Talking to my husband about that, and he goes, I
bet you anything that you would have found that gun
if you had come forward right away, if it would
have been like the day after or whatever. Yeah, right,
but it was three years later. Yeah, I just think
that it was. And also at that point in time
when they were driving around and getting rod of the gun,

(31:23):
I didn't even drive. You know, I wasn't old enough
to drive, so I didn't have any I wasn't paying
attention to roads or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, help me understand the call that Byron and Justin
asked you to make from the gas station by your house,
because it seems like Anastasia thought the plan was to
meet at Mount Washington, right, That's what she told her stepmom, Diane,
I need to ride to Mount Washington. She went to

(31:55):
Mount Washington. Other people saw her there. She'd as this
couple who is test driving a car, Like, Hey, what
time is it. I'm supposed to meet my boyfriend. He's
not shown up, But you said that you needed to
call her to stay to meet at the dairy queen.
Can you explain that call to me? Yeah, I don't

(32:17):
remember a lot of it. I just remember Justin Justin
wanting me to do it, because he said like Anastasia
was like already pissed about how late they were, and
like he didn't think that she would take his call
or something. There was some reason. Yeah, but I do

(32:40):
know that I definitely made the call. That's another thing, like.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Why didn't Kilbo Kilgoar pull the records from that payphone?

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Franzas that Justin called from a gas station in Lenexa,
wondering if Anastasia was still there or if Anastasia was there. Yeah,
and Frand say anything about talking with you. So it's like,
I'm just trying to figure out when that call took place.
Do you remember or do you know for sure that
you called the house?

Speaker 1 (33:10):
I thought that I called the house and I thought
Anastasia answered, But I don't know. That's one of those
things just been too long.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
What do you make of don Rand the night mechanic
at the Amico station saying that he saw Anastasia that night.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Get out of the car and all that stuff. I
don't know, Like I said, I've just since listening to
various doctors talk about that, and Ted talks about like
memory and eyewitnesses, And I'm not talking about eyewitnesses like
me who knew everybody involved and blah blah blah, just
eyewitnesses like complete strangers off the street. I don't know.

(33:53):
I think people can convince are very suggestible, maybe also
want to be involved in something exciting that I don't know,
maybe trying to get brownie points with the cops or something.
I don't know, because that has never made any sense
to me. I mean, that just floored me. Me and
Byron were like they're like, yeah, they found the guy

(34:14):
that says that she got out of like a And
I was like, she ever, we weren't ever even on
that road, Like what are you talking about? And that
made me see how hard it probably is to solve
crimes with all the misinformation and disinformation and stuff. Yeah, So, just.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
For the record, Anastasia never got out of the car
on Truman Road.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
No, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
No, Why do you think Bob involved himself so much
in the investigation and did you know how much he
involved himself until you listened to And it's only a
drop in the bucket. Obviously we couldn't include everything. But
did you know how much Bob involved himself in the instigation?

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Not? Really? No, What was the second part of the question,
what did you think about it? I just think, God,
I feel bad saying I just think Bob is nuts, honestly,
and I think maybe it was out of horrendous guilt,
because you know, he the girl's mom. She said she

(35:28):
divorced him for being so abusive and stuff. I don't know.
I think a lot of Bob's theories and Bob's whatever
were born out of guilt. We're born out of like
his own mental illness, I mean, and then obviously looking
at what he was charged with later, which I don't
even I know nothing about that and don't really care to.

(35:51):
I just think he's like a very odd duck and
maybe can't tell the difference between reality and whatever.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
That Deputy Eperson, the one who actually found Anastasia, found
Bob at the exact same spot where her body was found.
And you know that Deputy Eperson found it very strange
and wrote that four page it is suspicious.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
It's also interesting to me that kil Gore had learned
a lot of things about Bob during the course of
the investigation, and really it didn't seem like he followed
up on any of it. Yeah, I mean, when there
was when everyone was still considered a suspect, right, one
would think that Bob would be somebody at least check
out the alibi, you know, So it seems like a

(36:38):
lot of stuff didn't happen. When you heard that Bob
had insurance policies out on Anastasia, that.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Was shocking, But then it also was hardly any money.
So I don't know. I just like I said, lots
of Bob's actions don't make much sense to me.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
For the record, But around what time was Anastasia killed?

Speaker 1 (37:03):
I mean, I definitely know, I do you remember it
was definitely dark enough to wear people had headlights on,
but it was bright enough to where I could see
them out and see what happened without like there being
like floodlights out there. Honestly, I don't know. I would

(37:26):
say I stick to my original testimony because I remember
I wasn't late for my funeral, not my funeral. I'm
sorry I wasn't late for my curfew, so yeah, but
I don't really, But.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
It couldn't have been the eleven thirty at night when
Bob said he heard that gunshot.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
No no, no, no, and that's another very bizarre thing,
like what and then he says he knew his daughter
was dad when he heard the man couldn't have made
himself look any worse. I mean, it was just very strange.
But yeah, no, there's no way it was eleven thirty.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
So I'm sure you heard that. Byron's legal team thinks
that there was maybe some weirdness because you and Bob
had You wrote that first email to Bob, and then
there was some exchange email exchanges, and then there was
talk of getting together. Did you ever get together with Bob?

Speaker 1 (38:23):
No?

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Did you talking with Bob at all, even via email,
have anything to do with you coming forward and pointing
the finger at Byron.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Well, I pointed the finger at Byron because he did it.
I also one of the main reasons that I wanted
to talk to Bob with Bolsfugen was because I did
not want him thinking that I had any part in
those rude, awful emails Byron was sending to him. I
didn't even know. I mean like I wanted to make

(38:55):
sure that he knew that that was not how I
felt that. I thought Byron was just being a complete
asshole and very cruel to all their family. Yeah. It
was also once again I was hoping that maybe I
would get alone with him and he would be like, Kelly,
come on, just tell me. You know. I figured if

(39:16):
he got emotional and was asking me to tell him
the truth, that I would definitely tell him.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
I mean, from everything you're saying, it feels and sounds
like you're basically just begging people to just ask.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
More and yes or get yeah, anything, get confrontational with
me anything. It was so weird. I'm like, why were
people just believing all this stuff? Well, like I said,
there's we made a story up out of well, Byron
made a story about of thin air that she got
out of the car and blam, there's an employee saying

(39:53):
it happened. I mean, I was just like, what am
I in the Twilight Zone? I just wanted to someone.
I was like, please ask the right questions.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
How how did Byron come up with that story? And
was it like easy to come up with that story
or did it take some time to be like, you know,
so what do we do? We say, like, you guys
got into a fight, Like how how did the how
did that story evolve and.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Come to be? It seemed like it happened pretty damn fast.
Maybe Byron had been thinking about it all day, But
to me, it was just like he was like, all right,
you guys, here's the plan. Everybody knows ya stage is
like hot headed, blah blah blah. And it was true
that she'd thrown the ring at him a couple of times,

(40:44):
the engagement ring or or the engagement ring or whatever. Yeah, yeah,
it just to me it seemed like he uh thought
it up pretty quickly. But they were alone for days
and days before that, so maybe it was he'd probably
had it planned for quite some time. What a weird story, though,

(41:05):
I don't know. I always thought the story sounded ridiculous
and that I was like, there's no way they're going
to come. They're going to come arrest us all. I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
So when you heard John and Elizabeth Fisher in episode
twelve talk about how Bob had told John that he
saw Anastasia out on Truman Road that night or out
that night, and he tried to get her in the
car and she wouldn't get in the car. What did
you think when you heard them?

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Bob was nuts that maybe he felt so guilty that
he wanted to put more of the blame on himself
to other people also just that maybe I'm like, maybe
he's just one of those, Maybe he's a pathological liar,
Maybe he just embellishes stuff, because why on earth would
you add that? I have no idea. I mean, he

(41:54):
was his own worst enemy throughout this entire thing, and
it made sense. Plus, so I'm like, he's hindering the
investigation that he supposedly wants done so badly. I know
Bob did not kill her, because I was there when
Byron killed her, But I mean, like, what is he doing?

Speaker 2 (42:15):
I mean, Bob back then believed that Anastasia went home
that night. Patrick Rock still to this day thinks Anastasia
went home that night. What do you think about that?

Speaker 1 (42:27):
I have thought about that so much over the years,
but I don't know. I don't trust my own memory.
I have had vague things where I thought that I
remember her being mad because she bled through onto her
pants because Justin was so late and maybe wanted us
to go by there. But I don't know if that

(42:50):
was something put into my head by hearing stuff or what.
I just don't You.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Don't have a clear memory memory of You don't know
if if you guys went back to Anastasia's house that night.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
I don't, And I know on the stand I said
we didn't, So then that makes me think that that's
the truth. I just don't know. It's just it's been
so long, and like I said, when you're I've been
intact with Anastasia's friends and family off and on for
so such a long time, and we've talked about different

(43:28):
theories and stuff that I just don't you know for
the most part, And like I stick to my testimony
because Gil can do so much to you and make
you just I don't know. Your memory can warp, and
I've done a lot of drugs and alcohol and stuff
I just don't trust saying either way definitively, have you.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Ever seen Anastasia wear blue jeans and socks and sandals?

Speaker 1 (43:52):
No socks was santos? Hell? No?

Speaker 2 (43:56):
What did you think when you heard that a stun
gun had been found on Annis Station's bed.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Oh, I wasn't surprised because I knew that Justin and
Byron had gotten it's a taser of the same thing
as a stun gun. Yeah, yeah, I knew that they
had gotten stuff and taste homeless people. Byron was really
cruel and he would do all kinds of stuff. I
remember there was this very very overrate homeless guy called

(44:27):
Everybody called the Slug that would be in Westport and
Byron would give him like twenty or thirty dollars to
do jumping jacks in front of a group of people,
and it was bad. The guy would wheeze and stuff
and could barely do it. Disgusted by that. Just the

(44:49):
longer I was with him, the more just it was
just gross. He got off on humiliating people and all
kinds of things. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Did you know anything about Anastasia and Patrick Rock's relationship?
When did you meet Patrick.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Rock after her death? Definitely? I can't remember if it
was at the funeral or what. I just had known
it was like a friend of the family. I knew
it was her godfather. I remember her and Justin having
plans like to go out to lunch with him, and stuff.

(45:27):
I've gotten to know him fairly well after everything, and
you know, keeping in touch with the family and everything,
and I think he helps run that, like Stasia dot
Org thing.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
He changed his phone number the next day. There's he
had nothing to do with Anastasia's murder.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
No, once again, he's just he's a very odd duck. Patrick.
If you're listening to this, I'm sorry. I just think
he's on the spectrum and kind of I think it
had nothing to do with anything.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
I mean, I don't either, but it is interesting that
when I asked him, like about his connection to Lincoln Cemetery,
he said he had no idea or hadn't been there,
And it's like, but he was a historian of you know,
for the negro leagues, and so it is some of
the answers are interesting, but that doesn't make him a

(46:21):
murder clearly.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, I know. I think there's a lot of bizarre
people in this case that, just like I said, they
made themselves look bad by doing certain things. But I
have nothing to do with it.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, did Anastasia ever share with you girl to girl,
lady to lady what kind of products she would use
when she had her period?

Speaker 1 (46:46):
I remember her saying that she didn't like tampons. Well,
she had lost her virginity to Justin, so I remember
her saying that, like, you know, she was so new
to all that stuff that they were uncomfortable. I do
remember her saying that, but it wasn't like a long

(47:07):
drawn out conversation or anything.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
I mean, that's interesting because you know, her mom says
that she didn't like blood, right, so one would think,
of course, I'm just imagining this. If you don't like blood,
you don't want to use a pad. And then you know,
of course don Wright said at the dairy Queen that
Anastagia got her period and she called her husband or
her husband brought don Wright first tells kill Gore a

(47:30):
pad that she gave Anastasia, and then at trial she
changes it. She says it's a tampon. She was too
embarrassed to say tampon to kill Gore, so she said pad.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
I think don Wright is completely full of crap on everything.
I think she just doesn't.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
I just wonder how she was found sadly dead in
a clean pad.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
I wish I had the answer to that, and I
wish that so much stuff in this case. I wish
that the case hadn't been so fumbled. I wish that
they would have actually done their due diligence all that stuff,
because it wouldn't have taken this. It wouldn't taken this
long for the truth come out. It also wouldn't give

(48:13):
Byron a leg to stand on all his little indiscrepancies
that whatever. And I still do not understand their obsession
with the phone call. Did he say we should talk
about this? We shouldn't talk about this? To me? That
makes that makes no difference.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
For the record. Did Amy McGowan have played any part
in you changing your story and pointing the finger at Byron?
Did she? Was there any funny business with Amy McGowan. No,
I don't even remember if I talked. I think maybe
I talked to her once.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Did Anastasia ever share with you any abuse that she suffered?

Speaker 1 (48:53):
No, but we weren'tite close enough. I don't know that
she would.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
You had the same attorney, John O'Connor as Bob Whitblesfugen
ended up having. Is there any connection there?

Speaker 1 (49:07):
No, because the reason I got that lawyer was because
Maggie the Juggernauts alcohol counselor that I came forward to
she knew him, she knew that guy through her husband,
and like suggested it to my parents, I believe later on.

(49:30):
So that's bizarre, it's a it's coincidence.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yeah, you said it that You've like, you've said that
you have fought credibility issues. And one of the things
that Byron has said that I want to ask you
about is did there was a phone call that happened
where you call the police saying that Byron was suicidal?

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Oh? God, yes, what do you have to say about that?
He's just a liar? He absolutely After I broke up
with him, he was not accepting it. He was I
believe he was like on drugs again. But he was
like taking pain pills or something. Yeah, And he would

(50:13):
call me and I would hang up on him, or
I would tell my mom to tell him that I
wasn't there. He finally got in touch with me and
flat out said if I don't have you, there's no
reason to go on blah blah blah and everything. And
I was like, so you're threatening suicide and he said, well, yeah, exactly,

(50:34):
isn't that. I don't know, Like, what are you an idiot? Yeah?
Of course that's what I'm doing. So I called, yes,
that happened. Why would I make that up?

Speaker 2 (50:54):
So what do you say to the people that think
you have made up the story that Byron killed in
the station?

Speaker 1 (51:04):
It makes no sense. It literally makes no sense. I
mean why would I Why would I think I was
getting immunity. I had been there, not done anything. That's
about as much of an as an accomplice as you
can get. People that do drugs, their nightmare is having
to talk to the police, you know what I mean.

(51:28):
Especially the drugs I was doing at the time, caused
a lot of paranoia, a lot of it makes no sense.
And get back at him for what I broke up
with him. I like I said, he never gave me money,
I never showered at his place. I don't know what
he's He's just he's in LaVall I am.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
So when Jamie said that you would call the time
asking for things.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Oh, I don't know her. I don't. I don't. The
only time I've seen her is when they had her
talking about me basically being a character witness for uh.
Byron about me was on unlocking the truth, and I

(52:13):
was like, who the hell is this person? So what
I don't know what he's is he getting these people
to just say whatever? And it's so funny that all
of these friends that have all this supposed like information
on me and I called all the time and blah
blah blah blah, they became friends way after the fact,

(52:36):
after I had broken up with him and stuff. I
have no idea what she was talking about. I mean,
are there people out there that will just lie about
like a situation they know nothing about.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
One listener wrote in and she is a recovering addict,
and she said that she had made up something for
attention and that she knew that especially women as have
been known to make up stories for attention.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
That sounds like a buyer in person pretending to be
they do that stuff.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Anyway, What would you say to that, Did you make
up this story for attention and it got out of it,
got out of it, got away from you, like you know? No,
Like I said, if you make up something for attention,
it's something where you're going to get sympathy, not something
where you're possibly going to go to prison, and that
people are going to think you're an evil piece of shit.

(53:31):
Horton lance and is closing arguments suggested that the reason
you came forward was because I think he said, like,
there are two Kelley moffitts. There's one that is a
drug addict and doesn't have an excuse for it, and
then there's one that is a drug addict and has
an excuse, and it's because she witnessed this horrible thing.
And the reason you came forward is because it would

(53:51):
be a way for your parents to accept and help
you through.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Your addiction and stuff like that. He well, he does
not know my parents very well. That was never seen
as my parents aren't like that at all. Also, that's
not how recovery works. You're not like, oh you poor baby.
He would have never you know, touched drugs or alcohol

(54:19):
unless this poor thing hadn't happened to you, and stuff
like that. I mean, it even says in the Big
Book that people drink essentially because they like the effect
produced by alcohol and a story. You can have trauma
and other things that maybe you know, trigger the onset

(54:39):
of it and everything like that. But the fact of
the matter is people do drugs because they feel good,
and so that doesn't have Plus, I never like my
relationship with my parents. I still don't have the best
relationship with my family. They did not ever say, oh,

(55:02):
you poor thing, here come move back in the house,
and here's some money and here's some button. Never, it
was never like that, you know. It was just I
don't know, if anything, I think it changed how they
saw me, you know the fact that I didn't say
anything and I let that happen and stuff like that.

(55:23):
It was never you poor. I don't know. I don't
know whose family they think they're talking about. But I
was never seen as some poor like damsel in distress
that just had to drink because because that's not how
it works.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
What do you think of the affidavits that Iron's legal
team has gotten, like from the judge from I mean,
the judge also allegedly wrote that letter to Evelyn k saying.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Like, I don't believe that letter exists.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
It's on It's on Instagram.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
If you want me to show it to you, poor Instagram, No.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Mind, I can show it to you. But I mean,
what do you think of the affidavits that judge Atwell,
doctor Thomas Young, and Horton Lance wrote Because you heard
you heard them read by actor.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Okay, first of all, I think the guy that was
totally on my side for instantly, and then all of
a sudden changed your mind. How doctor young? Yeah, aren't
these people extremely old? Now? I mean they're older? Yeah,
I mean, I don't. I have no idea. I think
here's the letter. That's the letter. I mean, I can

(56:34):
definitely see a judge getting older and maybe a little
befuddled and kind of questioning some stuff. But also, like
I said, whether he said we should or we shouldn't
talk about that, to me is a moot point. The
fact he never denied shit is the point of that.

(56:55):
I don't know, And Evelyn is so full of crap.
Need to read any more of that. I don't know
if the judge is old and confused or also, I mean,
being a judge and having that power in your hands
to send somebody away for the rest of their life.
I'm sure you're gonna second guess yourself. I'm sure you're gonna.

(57:16):
I don't think it means much at anything. Also, he
was the judge, he wasn't the jury.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
What do you make of the Kansas City Police crime
lab now saying that they believe there could be a
chance that Anastasia was lying down when she was shot.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
That sounds really weird to me because I was there
and she was not lying down. How would you Plus also, okay,
if that's true, how do you get somebody to lie
down and you stick a gun literally on their nose?
How do you get? What do you? Because she didn't
try to get away? They said she had a contact wound. No,

(57:58):
she was never at any point line down. And then
also now that they're relying on now, also their defense
changes constantly, which to me also is a red flag.
They're just grasping its straws. I feel like, did you
get any of the reward money? No? When I never

(58:19):
even tried to. They tried to say that I wanted
their reward money, but there was some like a loophole
where I wouldn't I couldn't get it or something. Isn't
that on file that I never even I didn't know
about the reward money. I remember there being posters or

(58:39):
something a long time ago, but I do not remember
the whole reward money thing, and I certainly had no
interest in it.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Did prosecutors show you crime scene photos of Anastasia so
that you could hone your story to describe how she
was found?

Speaker 1 (58:57):
No? I've never even seen the crime photos. I'm glad
that I've never seen them because that sounds horrific. Yeah,
they're not They're very upsetting.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
What do you think about the possibility that Byron could
get a new trial.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
I'm curious as to why do we know why? Because
the Jackson County Prosecutor has told me that that's about
as far fetched as he does not see that happening.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
I mean, they definitely allege Brady violations. And this is
going off of like Horton Lance's Affidavid right, So he
said something like one hundred and forty emails from Bob existed,
only ten were turned over. So I think all I'm
saying is I think that they say that there are
these Brady violations. I think that's one of the ways

(59:45):
that they're hoping that there could be a new trial.
And so your reaction to the possibility of a new trial.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Is bring it. I've told I told the Jackson County prosecutor.
I told Innastasia's family or whatever they need. If we
need to go back to court and I testify, I
have to testify against him again. I am no longer
a teenager. I'm no one. I mean, no, there's the

(01:00:16):
whole thing just seems ridiculous to me. They're not gonna
and the first time it certainly didn't go well for him.
So I'm not scared of Byron anymore. In fact, like
I said, being an adult now and looking back at
that relationship and stuff, I just I think he's creepy
and pathetic. He'll turn into anything to anybody to try

(01:00:38):
to get whatever he wants. I think if he ever
got a new trial, he's gonna be very sorry. There's
that girl that was threatened, the terror told, There's all
kinds of other stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Why do you think there are so many unanswered questions
for people?

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Well, first of all because Byron's always playing this martyr
stuff where he compares himself to Damien Eckles whatever, which
is completely just whatever Byron. It's also, I think because
it's just so bizarre because it was literally a killing
that happened for not like no gain, no financial gain,

(01:01:29):
no anything. It was just that it was just like
a thrill kill, like Byron always wanted to know what
it was like to kill somebody. And then I don't know,
what do you think do you think that's part of it?
It's just so nonsensical, and then the people involved are
so bizarre. Byron's extremely bizarre, and how he comes off

(01:01:51):
his mom Bob. Just there's so many things that play
that people are.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Like, what, why do you think in Stasia was murdered?
I mean, you said it's a real kill. Do you
think that Justin said it in sort of a way
but never meant for it to actually happen. Why do
you think Anastasia was murdered?

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
God, I wish I knew. I have no idea. I mean,
like I said, I was at school and they were
alone for several days together doing acid or masculine or whatever.
I think she's dead because Byron always wondered what it
was like to kill somebody. Justin was just sick enough
to get pulled into that, because it just it makes

(01:02:39):
no sense, like Justin like and she wasn't even It's
not like she was dangerous and stalking him. I just
I truly don't know. It reminds me a lot of
do you remember this case. It's a very old true
true crime case of Leopold and Lobe. There was two

(01:03:02):
young rich guys. Yeah, they had just one of them
had always wanted to know what it was like to
kill somebody and they just I don't know, because Byron
was just not And that's one of the things that
made me so mad that he's using the whole oh
the gothing, all the blah blah blah. No, I mean,

(01:03:24):
he wasn't just goth. He was obsessed with that stuff.
And that's a huge that's completely different. He told me,
And I'm sorry, I apologize this is graphic or if
I already said it or whatever. He said. He figured
out that one of the quickest ways for him to

(01:03:47):
whatever when he was masturbating was to like do it
over dead animals and stuff like that. That was one
of the things that he told me later. And like
I said, he told me that he had participated in
necrophilia and stuff. I mean, he wasn't just this wasn't
just like his screensaver was this awful crime scene photo

(01:04:11):
of this woman that had been hacked up. Like he
it wasn't. This wasn't just somebody you know, listening to
some goth music and blah blah blah. He put a
rotting chicken carcass on his car and thought it was funny.
He just wasn't. It was it was to a whole
nother level. This wasn't a goth person. This was someone

(01:04:34):
absolutely obsessed with death and control and suffering. And you
know you did?

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
You loved him? I fourteen year old side, fifteen year
old self.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Yeah, I don't think I have You don't think you
have the capacity for love at that age. But I
I liked I liked the attention, he had a car.
He made me feel better about myself after all the
stuff that had happened. The more I got to know him,
the less I liked him.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Why did you stay with him as long as you
did after the murder?

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Well, I mean, first off, he told me that it
would look really bad, it would look really weird if
we instantly broke up. And also I was just scared.
I didn't know what to do because I didn't I
wasn't completely ready to come forward yet, but I had

(01:05:36):
just like tremendous guilt. Also, he had been my first
serious boyfriend. Justin was gone, you know, Staga was gone.
I just felt trapped. And believe me, they weren't good years.
He talks about me. I think it's so funny, like
in his stuff about me, he's like and yet again,

(01:05:58):
Kelly had been on faithful blah blah blah. He's talking
like I was like a thirty five year old person
that had been married to him for years but kept
doing all these diabolical things. For I was fifteen and
actually and I was pulling away from him, and I
was finding people that were age appropriate, that were interested

(01:06:21):
in me. That's not infidelity and manipulation. That's growing up
and stuff and just getting It's just so weird how
he sees stuff. He assigns all this stuff to me
that is so calculated and so whatever, and it's not.
I am not that complicated. I'm really not. How on

(01:06:44):
earth did I know if I supposedly came forward to
get back at him, I didn't know how that was
going to go if that was my I mean, it's
just so stupid. Oh oops, I put myself in prison
for twenty years now. It's just crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
How has life been for you since coming forward?

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Since all of this? Really, Oh god, that's a long
time ago. I wish I could say it has been better.
It's been I don't. It's been up and down. It's
also it sucks that anytime I get involved with somebody
on a very deep level, whether that be like a

(01:07:31):
friend an employee, like you know, a love interest and
stuff that I have to take, you know, like if
you google me, this is what you're gonna find. That's
been you know. But I knew, I knew that that
was going to come with the territory. But it's just
I still I don't think I'm ever gonna why I

(01:07:53):
wrote you that in an email, I don't think I'm
ever going to see myself as a good person ever again.
And that was one of the reasons. That's why I
wish that before coming here, I had set up where
you could talk to my trauma therapist and rehab and stuff,
because she just a ton of the work that she
did with me was being like, it's not your fault,

(01:08:17):
it's not your fault. You were fifteen, you weren't evil,
you weren't blah blah. And I still don't even I
don't think anybody's ever going to convince me of that.
I mean, like I said, she just she was a
kid who thought she was hanging out with their friends.
She didn't do anything. She didn't even do anything to me.
She didn't do anything to Byron other than he just

(01:08:38):
didn't like her. And I think he wanted her out
of the way so that he could take full advantage
of Justine. I mean, I just can't just terrifying how
fragile life is and how you know, I just can't.
And like I said, I have a daughter who's twenty
one now, and if she you know, gott in her

(01:09:00):
with her friends and they just you know, just killed her.
I I don't know, it's just not supposed to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Yeah. I hope you can get to a place where
you do forgive yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
I hope. I don't know. I have good days and
I have bad days. Yeah, he's still of course, I
don't think I'm ever not gonna have nightmarees over stuff.
And that's one of the things that makes me so
mad too about Byron.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Yeah, he used to make fun of me for alupset
I was about stuff. I don't know. I don't know
why he took me even, maybe he thought that was
gonna bond me to him or I don't yeah, why
bring you? Yeah, I'm just another leg of send I've

(01:09:59):
been trying to figure that out for a really long time.
And I'm glad that, you know, I came here and
talked to you and stuff, but I just won Have
you seen that movie that I turned all Sunshine of
the Spotless Mind. I just watched that and I was

(01:10:20):
just like, God, it was that was real because I've
never since, you know, since all has happened when I
was fourteen, I have never had a time in my
life where I didn't just have this. It's a horrible
sense of like guilt and dread and self loathing. I'm sorry,

(01:10:44):
It's okay. I should have said something. I don't know what. God,
I don't know why I didn't say anything, and I
also wanted to talk to you, you know, if there's
anybody out there listening to this, because you know, I've
seen other cases kind of similar on dateline and stuff,

(01:11:04):
and I don't know, even if you think somebody's joking
around about something like that, it is not normal to
joke around about killing someone, you know, was I Was
I what you expected at all? Or did you? Because
that's one of the things too, is I just want
I don't Byron and his people just portray me as

(01:11:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
So I think you know I said it too from
the very beginning. I think when I wrote to you
more than a year ago.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
God, I can't believe it's been the home that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
I was going into this story just looking for the truth.
And you know, I'm glad you listened to all the
episodes before agreeing to sit down, because it was important
for you to hear that and also have confidence in
what I was saying that. You know, I'm just looking
for the truth. So are you what I expected? I

(01:12:02):
feel like I've gotten to know you a little bit
through your emails as weird as I.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Mean, you've been hard on me, even though it's up
and down. Yeah, well, I mean you have to realize too,
We've had people with horrible like I said, like Byron's
legal team would contact me and be like, well, I
just want to talk for a little bit. No, they
want to ambush me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
I mean, I was nervous for you to come today.
I was like, I don't I don't know how this
is going to go. I know that I just wanted
to have a conversation. Is there anything that you want
to ask or say or share that I haven't asked?
You do have anything you want to say to Byron?

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Oh? God, I think about that a lot. He can
make up stories and when he's alone in his cell
at night. He knows he murdered her. He knows it,
he knows this is all complete crap. I just don't understand.
I was always waiting for him to I don't know, something,

(01:13:04):
to crack something to I mean, it's how exhausting to
put up this charade for so long. I always thought
maybe there was a chance that he would just accept
his fate and do his time with dignity and leave
her family alone. And I just don't think that. I
don't wrong. Boy, was I wrong. I mean, I think

(01:13:28):
he's gonna just I don't know, till the day he dies,
he's gonna be just. I think he's just gonna be
completely full of shit till the day dies. And to me,
that's just that's terrifying that he's capable of doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
You know, I'm interviewing. I'm doing like a final interview
with his legal team tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
They're in. They're infuriating me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
I don't know anything you want me to say to them.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Just because an investigation wasn't done perfectly and this, that
and the other. And I get it as like legal
people and people that want everything to go by the
letter of the law. I'm sure a lot of things
in this trial and uh, the investigation were really fucked up.

(01:14:25):
That doesn't that I mean, that doesn't mean a person
is innocent. And maybe they don't care. These aren't just
laws and you know, loopholes, and these are people. These
are people. I wish just as bad as they had,
that you know, the investigation had gone smoother, and that

(01:14:49):
that kil Gore hadn't been like lazy or whatever. I
don't know, I just don't. And they they also seem
to be making it more about them, like if they're
going to get their name out there as like, I mean,
what do they want to make a name for themselves

(01:15:10):
in the legal world? Is like we I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
Know, because they have alleged that you don't tell the truth.
Have you told me the complete truth today?

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Oh? Absolutely, yeah, I don't tell the complete truth. Even
though this has like I said, this is I didn't
paint myself in a good light coming forward because it
wasn't about that. I get Facebook messages all the time
like you should have gone to prison just right along

(01:15:46):
with them and stuff, and to that I say, yeah
that actually, I probably my life might have been a
little bit better because or I would have or something,
or maybe then some of my guilt would go away
because I had been punished in some way. I just don't.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
After Byron got arrested and was in jail, I think
you called Evelyn and said to Evelyn, I should be
there with him. A quick reminder in episode five, I
shared what Evelyn said on the stand in two thousand
and two about this. Evelyn testified about a month after

(01:16:25):
Byron was arrested. Kelly called her, and the first thing
Kelly said was, quote, this is insane, according to Evelyn.
Kelly went on to say, quote, I'm an accomplice. I'm
an accomplice. But since I told I got they gave
me part immunity. Kelly also said quote I should be
in jail with him, and I'm ready to go in jail.

(01:16:48):
Know what you were saying is I feel as guilty.
I feel guilty too, and we should both be there.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Well yeah, and also like I said, like, I'm why
didn't you kill me too? Please? Or else? I've switched
places for just any I mean, what I did was
completely wrong, and that's how things like the Holocaust happen,
and that's how you know, horrible things happen is when

(01:17:21):
people don't say anything, or people just you know, don't
want to cause the stir. They don't say anything, or
they've never really done anything like that before, so whatever.
I mean, that's just That's another reason why I wanted
to do your podcast and stuff is just say something,
because if you think you're taking the easier way out

(01:17:42):
by not saying something, and you have any kind of
a conscience, you'll just be eating alive. What is that
quote like in order for the only or one of
the main ways for evil to happen is for good
men to say nothing or something. Oh, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Is there anything else that you can think of that
you want to share?

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
No, I just oh and younger girls, if there is
an adult man interested in you and you know you
I looked a little bit older than my age. But yeah,

(01:18:31):
there's not. That is not a compliment and you should
run the other direction. There's no no decent eighteen nineteen
year old wants anything to do with a middle schooler.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
Is there anything you want to stay to Anastatia's family.
I know you have a I know you have a
relationship with them and you talk to them, but if
they're listening.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
I don't know. They pretty much know where I stand.
But I'm so so sorry. I'm sorry that she trusted me.
I'm just I'm sorry. I haven't met any of them,
and also now as a parent, like I just, I

(01:19:24):
have a completely different view of Anastasia. You know, she
just wanted the guy that she loved to love her back.
You know, that's all she wanted. That's all anybody wants. God,
I just I don't know. I just wish I could
turn back down. You know, I wish if I could

(01:19:44):
take her place, I definitely would, you know, I don't know.
There's just no. I don't know, but there's no. It
just doesn't feel like there's any type of I'm sorry.
That's big enough.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
I'm thankful Kelly agreed to speak with me. Her side
of the story needed to be heard. So the plan
was that next week we were going to release our
final episode, which was to include my interview with Byron
and his legal team. But that was all done prior
to these new revelations about Kelly's littering case, something I

(01:20:28):
did not see coming. Because the story is unfolding in
real time and a lot of people's lives are at stake.
We are going to take another short pause. I'm going
to go back to Byron to ask him about some
of Kelly's allegations from our interview, and back to his
legal team to ask them to explain exactly what happened

(01:20:49):
with Kelly's littering charge and where do they go from here.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely
those of the individuals participating in the podcast. If you
or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis,

(01:21:13):
please no help is available. Call or text nine eight eight,
or chat online at the Suicide and Crisis Lifelines website
at nine eight eight lifeline dot org. To see photos,
maps and documents related to this season's story, follow The
Real Killer podcast on Instagram and at TRK podcast on TikTok.

(01:21:39):
The Real Killer is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,
hosted by me Leah Rothman. Executive producers Leah Rothman and
Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written by Leah Rothman, editing
and sound design by Cameron Taggi, mixed and mastered by
Cameron Taggie, Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson,

(01:22:06):
legal counsel for A y R Media, Johnny Douglas, executive
producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard