January 5, 2022 • 26 mins
Jordan Burroughs is one of the most decorated wrestlers in American history. A 2012 Olympic Gold Medalist and five-time World Champion, Burroughs has won 25 gold medals across international, national, and collegiate competitions throughout his storied career. Burroughs joins Nick to discuss key elements of youth sports - the importance of balancing challenges with support, the value of participation trophies, and how he approaches youth sports as a father.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
When you can develop in senuite appreciation for your craft,
that's when it becomes easier for you to be accountable.
You on your parents aren't always over top of you.
Give me your business and winning are two completely different things.
This is the Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring
healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through
(00:25):
education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacoor from the
Reformed Sports Project podcast. Joining me today is one of
the greatest wrestlers of all time, Jordan Burrows. Jordan is
highly decorated with over twenty five gold medals from international,
US and collegiate competitions. Jordan and I discussed everything from
why he's a youth sports advocate and the important lessons
learned from sports, to participation trophies and advice for kids
(00:48):
trying to play sports in college. I have another ridiculous guest,
but why I'm extra excited right now. My sons are
wearing his damn wrestling shoes. He's the go He's the legend,
one of the greatest of all time. Jordan Burrows JB.
Thanks were hopping on manns are having me, no doubt.
So here's what I want to start man, And I've
been following you for a long time, not just because
of your you know, athleticism and you know, your ability
(01:10):
to be so skilled and such on the map, but
where you kind of tugging my heart strings quite a
bit is you're a youth sports advocate. This didn't just
come about here recently. I noticed like a couple of
years ago, you know, you talking about how let kids
be kids. You know, we're not getting college scholarships at
ten you tournaments right, tell me this you're a parent,
But where does that come from? Like what makes you
feel moved enough to get on a pedestal and speak
(01:31):
from your heart and your experience on the topic of
youth sports. We've been around in games so long, you know,
I've been in the wrestling room at the University of
Nebraska for fifteen years, and then I've been to thousands
of wrestling camps, you know, selling the dream to all
of these huge athletes throughout the country, throughout the world,
even um for the entirety of my career. So I've
seen it at both levels. I've seen it from the
youth level when it's done properly and when it's done poorly,
(01:53):
and then I've also seen what the final product looks
like in a college wrestling room when it's down properly
and done really And so you know what I always
try to advocate for is, hey, listen, be an elite
is secondary. This is something that might just so happy
to be indirect result of creating structure and giving kids
(02:14):
an outlet to, you know, allow them to grow and
develop and build confidence and be active and fit and
learn how to be coachable and walk with humility and
do all these amazing things. That that was just what
it was when I was growing up. You signed up
for your local youth club, you paid your sixty bucks,
you got your wrestling singlet, and you went to any
tournament that you could find in the area. But now
(02:35):
it's it's morphed to two parents want their kids to
be elite for for a number of reasons. But you know,
I think ultimately it's it comes with a level of
grace that you have to operate with in order to
get your kids to love the support. First, I think
when you can develop a genuine appreciation for your craft,
that's when it becomes easier for you to be accountable,
even when your parents are always over top of you.
(02:57):
So right now, I'm just in a place where I'm
trying to figure out how to be as as gracious
in my approach and not be nasty to parents because
I categorized myself as one of them. I have kids.
I want them to be athletes, you know. I desire
for them to be great and athletics because it means
a lot to me. And then I have also done
(03:20):
it for such a long period of time that I'm like, man,
what kind of moments did my dad do well at?
Where did he kind of miss the market a little bit?
And how can I improve? Was a this generation such
a great point? And I have no experience in the
wrestling realm, but I played baseball in college. I played
a little bit professionally, and but I played you know,
different sports growing up and one thing that pressed me
(03:40):
to move. And I've been coaching my kids in all
these sports, you know, whether it be basketball, baseball, football.
My oldest is a junior in high school now, and
you know, he wants to wrestle in college, and I'm
sure that will happen at some level. But wrestling really
was a sport that I introduced my kids too, because
a good friend of mine and wrestled and said, hey,
it's great. And I always as a as a father,
I loved the idea of my kids learning how to
(04:03):
defend themselves. I was like, man, this is kind of
like a martial art, but at the same time it
will probably help them on the baseball field or football field,
a cross field. I just I'm a big advocate of
kids playing multiple sports and cross training, and one sport
helps the other. But when I got into the wrestling
room and saw my kids, I'm like, man, this sport
you can't blame the umpire, you can't blame the ball.
(04:23):
And I was like, dude, this makes my job as
apparent easier. Like talk about accountability. I blew me away.
I'm in love with the sport. But you mentioned the
word accountability, and we'll kind of get into the participation
trophy thing here for a little bit. But I want
to talk about that because I think that that's kind
of going by the wayside across the board, people and
parents are finding it hard to extract what I think
(04:44):
the true value in youth sports is, which is kind
of what you spoke on preparing kids for the path
as opposed to preparing the path for the kids were
trading short term performance over long term development in and
out of sport. A lot of reasons for that, but
it sounds to me like you want to make sure
they get those life lessons even more than just the
performance aspect. Is that kind of what you're talking about. Yeah,
for sure, I think it's necessary because ultimately you're trying
(05:06):
to create individuals of character that can be contributors to society.
Like that's the ultimate goal in this process. So you know,
anything beyond and above that is strictly icing on the cake.
But I think that we've kind of missed the mark
because we've tried to, you know, make athletes elite, but
within doing that, you forget all about the principles that
(05:29):
are necessary to be great and to have sustained excellence.
Like no one cares about winning right now. Like if
your kid is the best kid on the field at
this very moment in their careers, like that's not super
beneficial for their development and for their progression. You know.
I think what we're trying to get to is a
place where we understand that what we want to give
(05:51):
to our kids is the preparation for them to interact
with life and to be great individuals, you know. So
I think when I started sport as a young man
and I went to my very first tournament, I was like, Okay,
what can I become? You know, I'm not extremely confident.
I'm the youngest of four. I really don't feel like
I have a lot of purpose in anything that I do,
(06:11):
you know, And I'm getting to this space where, you know,
my dad's coming to watch me compete, my siblings are
coming to watch me compete, Like what does this mean
to me? Who am I? And why is this important?
I also started to figure out, you know, how can
I develop an identity for myself and really start to
extract more value out of what I can output into
(06:34):
the world. And that was really cool experience for me
because when I was a kid, my dad leaved to me,
but I didn't believe in myself. So when my realitied
in the line with who he thought I was, you know,
sometimes it could be frustrating, you know. And so when
you sort of unleased that power, almost like a superhero,
when you reveal what you're really capable of and you
learn how to harness those powers, like that's a special
(06:56):
moment for east individuals. So I think that's what sports
and athleticss for me. Like, if you grow up in
a middle class family, or if you grow up in
astute or a wealthy family, like, your life will never
be hard. You're life will simply never be hard. You
have no challenges. Everything is provided for you. You don't
grow up in the streets, nothing's rough, you don't have
to develop mental toughness or any grid. Everything's given to you.
(07:18):
So it's like, well, how can you replicate or simulate difficulty.
You have to play sports because it takes it takes
a whole lot of strenuous activity, and it takes a
lot of building mental toughness and character to be good
at athletics. So that's why I think athletics are so important.
It's like, if you didn't grow up in a difficult
area or in poverty, the best way to replicate difficulty
(07:41):
or obstacles or challenges for young kids is to put
them into athletics and to present them with challenges and
then to help prepare them to overcome them and empower
them along the way. You're getting me excited, man, You
fired me up. We're clicking on all cylinders because we're
like minded and I can hear the passion coming out
of you, and you know, it's disheartening. And you went
on a man, you went on a rant like a
week and a half ago about participation trophies, and it's funny.
(08:04):
I actually brought this up like two years ago with
a guy who's on our advisory board. He pitched for
the Red Sox named Lenny DeNardo. And here's what I
have found, you know, and I get the whole. I
don't want my kids to get a participate Like. First
of all, my first ever trophy was a participation troph
I got it when I was eight years old and
in nineteen nine, and I was like the most happy
human being in the world. I have no idea where
(08:24):
the trophy is, but I remember it, and I think
it's the only trop FAIR remember, except when I got
a state championship ringing high school in the national championship
in college. But I mean, I remember that first trophy,
and and when I read what your post said, I'm like, man,
I get it. But I have noticed the people who
quote unquote have the biggest um problem with kids getting
medals for showing up when they're young. I might be
(08:46):
generalizing here, but from my experience, there's a lot of
people who never really accomplished anything in their own athletic career. Um,
I'm not trying to point a finger making generalization. That
is just what I have seen or can't take a
step back and say, hey, what is this really about?
Because I think there's levels to development. Some kids, the
best they can do and extract from a youth sports
experience is to be a part of is to learn
(09:07):
about how to get on the line the right way
and to just have the confidence whereas other kids can
compete for championships. Some kids are a shell of themselves,
but sport will help make them more confident and go
into the world and be something else. So can you
talk about where the participation trophy came from and how
that all ties in and your passion for that, Yeah,
for sure. So you know, obviously I've got some implicit
bias just because of the fact that that was my
(09:30):
first trophy, so it it's very sentimental for me. Then
when I think about where I was in my career,
how I got started in the sport, and then you
know what kind of hooks me and kept me coming back.
But I also think that I've seen the sport done
at the highest level for such a long period of time.
I've seen what kind of keeps people drawn in. I've
seen what kids desire to have. You know, my kids
(09:52):
don't even play youth sports yet. You know, they're just
getting into what they're gonna do, hopefully for a long
period of time. So you know, I don't have a
ton of experience with my own children. But what I
do know is I've spent enough time around a lot
of use athletes all around the country to know enough
to think that, Hey, listen, kids find value and validation
(10:12):
at a young age, and that's what needs to understand.
It's like, this is not an adult here, Like we're
not giving this to a twenty year old. This is
a seven and eight year old. This is someone who
doesn't understand the value yet of hard work. This is
someone who doesn't know how to be consistent with their effort.
This is someone who freaking still poops their pants for
crying out loud. You know, like you have to you
have to understand they don't need to learn these hard
(10:34):
life less yet, but at some point we can start
to give them the details of what it looks like
to continuously improve in the fight for something knowing that
you didn't you know, you didn't win, Like giving your
best and winning are two completely different things. And that's
where I think we're kind of at this point now
where everyone's like, well, if they didn't win, then they
deserved nothing. And I'm like, well, that's not true. No
(10:56):
tournament that I ever went to to compete end did
I give less effort or have less prep ration just
because I didn't take first place? Like that's a complete lie.
So we have this mindset where guys are like, well,
if they didn't win, and they deserve nothing, Well, like,
the things that we should be celebrating are the effort,
the blavery, the courage. They're willingness to go out there,
like I've seen my kids in their own personal experiences
(11:17):
before they go to practice like that. I'm nervous, I'm scared.
I don't know these people. This is my first time here.
Why are they all looking at me? You know, we're
in a completely new place. I don't want to go
out on the map by myself, so I have to.
And also, like all of those things, I don't think
these people have an understanding of It's like, if you're
going to a new spot and you had to, you know,
give absolute effort and a sport as vulnerable and as
(11:40):
transparent as wrestling where you're literally just out there with
another opponent trying to rip your head off and you
gotta stand out there and fight like that's very tough
to do. So, you know, I think that the reward
for them should be, you know, based on their willingness
to get out there, and then you sit them down
and they have a conversation with them after that that
origin story and say, hey, listen, understand that there's still
(12:02):
three more trophies that are much bigger than this one
that we want today, and there's still much more that
we can get from ourselves. This is a great start.
This is I'm so proud of your effort. I'm so
proud of your willingness to fight. And you were really
creatious out there today. You're working on the things that
we were practicing. You're being a good listener, and you
were smiling. You look like you had a good time. Now,
(12:23):
let's go back to the drawing board on Monday and
we'll continue to improve on our skills. Here's where we
where we got beat, Here's where we need to get
better at but I'm so thankful for your willingness to compete.
I think you can be really good at this, you know,
And so like, I think that that's kind of where
we're missing the mark. We're giving too much correction and
too much challenge and not enough support and encouragement. It's like,
(12:45):
you can give people challenges, but if you never support
them in these challenges, you're gonna create this militant like
drills target environment where kids are like I only do
this because my dad tells me that I need and
no love, there's no admiration, there's no appreciation to their craft.
So eventually they're gonna either burn out or your relationship
is gonna suffer because of it. So I think that
(13:07):
what I've seen, or at least away in the method
that I'm gonna try to implement to my own children
is just to give them as much love as possible
while presenting challenge to them. So it's like equal love,
equal challenge, high support, high obstacles. So it's like, hey,
I believe in you, I believe that capable of doing this,
and I'm setting these high expectations for you because I
(13:29):
want you to be great and you know, for some
kids that might be a little too much. I think
you might need to scale back a little bit. And
it's all about, you know, discernment and understanding how to
navigate these conversations depending upon the personality of the individual.
But ultimately, you know, I think we have to we
have to step back for a second and think of
how would I want to be addressed if I position
(13:52):
Because too many times it's like, you hear the old
adage treat people the way you want to be treated. Well,
it's like it's not true, because what the heck, what
if they don't want to be treated the way you
want to be treated. I like being yelled at when
I go to train. Everyone doesn't want to be yelled at.
So it's like, it's not treat people the way you
want to be treated, treat people the way they want
to be treated. So it's like, how can this person
(14:13):
get the most effective critique from whatever process they're trying
to improve upon. Don't talk to them the way that
you would want to be talked to, Talk to them
the way in which you think they can receive it best.
I think that's where we have to start to, you know,
be a little more gracious and and be a little
more strategic, like we've got to learn how to semest
as opposed to just like hammering into our kids that
(14:34):
because it's it's so hard, man being great at athletics.
It's so hard, it's a long journey, takes a lot
of work, and it's it's too hard not to have
a good time doing it. That's Jordan Burrows, one of
the greatest wrestlers of all time. When we returned, Jordan
and I will discuss retention issues within your sports, early
sports specialization and advice for kids trying to play sports
(14:54):
in college. Welcome back to the Reformed Sports Project podcast,
where Jordan and I left off when we were about
to dig further into the importance of having fun, early
sports specialization and advice for those looking to play sports
(15:15):
in college. So Ben Ashker and I know you obviously
guys are I would imagine somewhat close have relationship. He's
been a huge help and helping this project from the beginning,
and we've talked quite a bit about retention, you know,
and I will say wrestling as a sport at the
youth level, I think Ben told me the number. It's
somewhere in the vicinity of losing like kids a year
(15:35):
like and probably wise. Man, it's a hard sport, dude,
It's hard, right, there's so many, so many elements your diet.
You know you've got kids. I went to Super thirty
two my son the first time you went there, and
I see little nine year olds are like cutting weight.
I'm like, we're what way do they cut? And but
like how do you retains right? So so you mentioned
the word fun, and a lot of times people think
(15:56):
you can't have fun and be competitive at the same time,
whereas I think it sounds like you think they coexist
and they have to coexist. I mean, you're thirty, I
think thirty plus years old. Are you still having as
much fun now? And if you didn't have the fun,
do you think you'd still be at it? Yes, you
have to have fun. Every day is not fun. I'm
gonna just be completely honest with you. But I'm old
enough and mature enough to understand that my commitment to
(16:19):
my craft sometimes have to have to, you know, supersede
my ability to you know, love and enjoy what I'm
doing at that particular moment. I don't feel like training
every day, you know, I have a lot of responsibilities
at home, but I also know that if I want
to be great at this sport, I have a responsibility
to the public that every time I present myself, I
have to be at my best, and I take that
(16:40):
with a lot of pride, and I always want to
be ready. So what I like to think is wrestling
is a really hard sport. There's some days where I
sit at my son's practice and I'm like, man, this
is so hard, Like I can see why someone wouldn't
want to do this long term. It's bro Like there's
certain days where I'm like, I didn't even enjoy watching this.
(17:00):
So I can imagine what it's like to be a
seven year old and someone's teaching you how to shoot
a high crotch. You know, you're like, I just want
to freaking play dodgeball. I think there has to be
like a kind of an equal amount of fun and activities,
but also, you know, kind of figuring out a way
how can I teach this sport to make it more palatable,
like where people want to come back and they want
(17:21):
to be a part of it, and they want, you know,
they see the kind of the benefits of being in
something great, like this because Yeah, for sure, I see
it a lot of days when I'm at practice with
my little ones and I'm like, man, this is so hard,
Like I if you don't want to come back to
ma all, I completely get it. But here's why we should.
Uh So, Yeah, I think fun is a big part
of it. I personally think that there is a particular
(17:43):
moment in time when you can start to teach people
about competitive nature and and what it means to be
great at something. But ultimately, as as young men and women,
I think there's a time and place for that, and
I don't think it's immediately and used athletics. So you know,
I'm a guy that preferred to delay what we're giving
to them so eventually they can kind of hunger for
(18:06):
it themselves. Where it's like, you know, been asking you
to said the best. He was like, how do you
know when someone's ready to compete? And it was like, well,
basically they start begging you and they're asking a dad,
can wrestle? Can I do this gymnastics event? Can I
play in this soccer game? Can I win a trophy?
Can I go out there and compete and see what
it's like? But you know, my kids are in a
unique position because of what I do and the accomplishments
that I've had, So I'm in this kind of tricky
(18:27):
dynamic where I'm also trying to protect them from what
I imagine that they will experience at some point, because
people are gonna be excited to try to beat them
just because of you know who I am. Sure I
want to ask you this. I don't know you're a
full athletic background. But a big component I think of
youth sports is there's a push by club owners and such,
what we gotta get all this kid's attention. We gotta
(18:49):
get it all year round. So there's like a hyper specialization. Um.
And I'm just curious of your thoughts, like with your
own kids, would you want them to sample a variety
of things alway? Like no, we're gonna go and the
best you could be. And what are your thoughts on
the whole early specialization versus you know, kids playing multiple
sports at least sampling them while they're younger at least, Yeah,
for sure, I mean so many sports fun. Wrestling wasn't
(19:10):
even my favorite sport growing up. I just happened to be.
It was the sport that I was best at. And
so that's kind of why I decided to focus on it,
and not because I loved it most, but I was.
I got to high school and I weighed a hundred pounds,
and so I was like, well, I love playing football
for a long time, but it doesn't look like I'm
gonna go to the NFL. It's kind of time for
me to to kind of take that dose to reality
(19:32):
and say, Okay, well what can I do that will
give me the best opportunity to go to college? And
it was kind of a sober experience, but you know,
it was helpful because I got to specialize in something,
but not until much later in my career. Like when
I was a kid, I played a little bit of everything.
I did t ball, I ran track, I played football,
and then wrestling, you know, just so happened to be
the thing that I was best at. But you know,
my kids are in a little bit of everything. My
(19:53):
son he played soccer, he's in gymnastics, and then he
also wrestles as well. Um, so you know, I think
a mixture of things trying to figure out what they enjoyed.
You know, I love wrestling, so I wanted them to
try it at a minimum um. But if they favor
something else and they become great as something else, and
you know that's just the nature of the beast, you
have to be willing to pivot and start to figure
(20:15):
out what else it is that they enjoy and if
that's something that doesn't happen to be in your wheelhouse,
and we can try to discover this new sport together.
But I don't want to like kind of pigeonhole them
into a position where they're like, Okay, I can only
do this because this is what dad really loves and
anything else is he's going to disagree with. I hope
that I'm not that guy. I love it. Last question,
(20:36):
tell me that you're gonna have a lot of parents.
You're gonna have a lot of sports parents. You're gonna
have a lot of youth athletes. You're gonna have kids,
You're gonna have coaches. I gonna have a lot of
coaches that listen to this. And it's gonna be George,
It's gonna be all different sports. I mean, there's gonna
be a lot of baseball, basketball, I mean a ton
of wrestling too, but I mean every sport possible, soccer. People,
they're gonna be listening to you, going what what is
the best way? What's a piece of advice you'd give?
(20:57):
How do I get to go and be a college athlete?
What's the secret sauce? How do I get there? Is
there any tip that you can give these kids and
parents and how they can help the kids and how
the kids can out put themselves in the position to
become college athletes one day? Yeah, for sure. I think
first is they have to be men and women of character.
That's number one. Like, if you want to be great
at athletics, but also if you want to be someone
(21:17):
that's trustworthy and reliable that can be counted on, you're
gonna have to be a person of integrity. So, you know,
I think the first things first for parents, they need
to teach kids to be accountable. They need to teach
kids to handle a load of work and be consistent
with their efforts, and to teach them to be coachable,
to operate with humility, and then to also be good teammates,
(21:37):
to show up on time, to stay out of trouble,
and to do both academically and socially. That's going to
be the most important thing. People ask me all the
time like, how do I get into college if I
haven't shown the results that you know, ultimately i'd like
to have. Well, I'm like, well, there are a lot
of guys that I was teammates worth in college that
weren't the best guys in the team. Shoot, some of
them weren't even starters. But what they were were men
(21:58):
and women of integrity. They were always people that you
could count on. And they were guys that we call
low maintenance guys that basically you just tell them what
to do, and they made sure that it was dark.
And so I think too many people, because they're trying
to be great athletics, we forget to teach them how
to be great individuals. So it's like you've raised this
this athlete and they're phenomenal sportsman, but you know, they
(22:20):
don't know how to set an alarm clock. They don't
know how to you know, to talk to their tutors
and let them know that they're gonna be late today
or they're gonna miss, you know, a class because they've
got in a way, me like all of these little
things that people need to understand if you want to
truly teach your kids how to be great at the
elite level, Like you're gonna need to teach them how
to be men and women that people can trust, and
they're gonna have to be mature beyond their years, and
(22:42):
they're gonna have to learn how to communicate, and that's
gonna be the most important factor. But then besides that,
I think ultimately it's like you're gonna have to just
put them in a place where you can create structure
for them that they can find pleasure and joy out
of what it is that they're doing. Because wrestling is
a really hard sport. So if you push them too
hard too soon, they're gonna hate it and they're gonna quit,
(23:02):
or you know, I think you can make a different
approach where you say what feels right, how many what's
the frequency of practices that feels good? Where they're not overwhelmed,
and let's have an open relationship where we're constantly check
in and listen to their minds and their hearts and
saying hey, buddy, like, how how are you? How are
you doing? Bro? Like? Are you good? How it's practice?
Do you want to go against tomorrow? Like in understanding
(23:24):
the difference between laziness and you just being overwhelmed, because
I need there are a lot of times we're trying
to push them for the sake of making them great,
but we don't realize that we need to take a
step back and kind of analyze their feelings and how
their approach to the sport can be, you know, done
in a better way. So yeah, I think creating structure,
constantly checking on their hearts to make sure that they
(23:46):
love it, you know, teaching them commitment to something so
you know, if we start this, we're gonna finish it,
and we're gonna see it through and then as seasons
and we can evaluate it. But also knowing that I'm
not pushing you to necessarily do this. If there's a
day or so that we feel like we need to
take a break, or we might have an alternative that
might be a little bit better, like doing those things.
And then obviously, you know, lastly, just teaching character and
(24:07):
making sure they're having a good time doing it. I
think all parents have great tensions, but we just have
poor execution, you know. So it's like we're not doing
this with a sort of maliciousness in our heart. We're
just kind of we wanted so bad for them, because
you know, most kids lack confidence and what we're trying
to get to saying hey, buddy, I need you to
hold yourself accountable, to do the right things because they're
(24:28):
the right things and not just because it's what Dad
told you to do. Like that's how you're going to
get what it is you know that you seek. So
the beauty for me and my own personal experiences, everything
that I own is based upon my hard work and
my character that I built through the support of wrestling.
So I get to show my kids the living embodiment
of everything that we have, that everything that we own,
(24:49):
all the things that we get to enjoy it. But
also I'm still competing. I'm an active competitor, so my
kids need to see what work looks like. I take
my practice with me multiple times a week so they
can see what work ethic looks like. They see train,
they see me cut wait, they see me in the
song and go for runs rather to bike, sweat, workout, stretch.
They see those things, so it's tangible. I think people
parents especially need to start to integrate their kids into
(25:11):
their work lives more so they can understand what it
is that their parents do. Because if you don't see work,
all you see. Is your dad come home from a
long day. You haven't seen them all day, and now
all of a sudden, he's been the newspaper, just sitting
on the couch, watch the TV. You're like, well, money's
in the bank, food is always on the table. We
have everything we need. I don't really know what my
dad does. All I ever seen him do is watch TV. So,
you know, I think it's we're in a unique place
(25:32):
where we need to integrate our our families into our
work lives so we can show them. Hey, son, Like
this might be different and it might be indirect, but
this is what work looks up for me. Now, your
job is to work hard at school and also work
hard at your sports. And so I think that's gonna
be important to for for all the parents that have
to show their kids a way to work hard. They
(25:54):
need to integrate them into their workplace so they can
show them a tangible piece of what they do so
they can kind of get it, like, uh, this is
why mom and dad leave the house for eight hours
a day and our food always mysteriously appears in the refrigerator, right,
So I think that's something that we kind of need
to start to implement too, And you know, I think
all these things are good things, but ultimately, you know,
(26:15):
it's it's gonna come down to grace and the spirit
of the individual that we're trying to work on. Jordan Burrows, Man,
I wish we had another two hours. You are stud
you are a legend, a living legend, and you are
youth sports advocate man on top of an unbelievable athlete. Man,
I can't thank you enough for your time. Yeah. Absolutely, bro,
thanks for having me a man as a pleasure. That's
Jordan Burrows, one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.
(26:37):
Thanks for listening to The Reform Sports Project podcast dom
Nick Boncourt and Our goal is to restore a healthy
balance and perspective in all areas of sports through education
and advocacy. For updates, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram, or check out our website by searching for
the Reform Sports Project
When you can develop in senuite appreciation for your craft,
that's when it becomes easier for you to be accountable.
You on your parents aren't always over top of you.
Give me your business and winning are two completely different things.
This is the Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring
healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through
(00:25):
education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacoor from the
Reformed Sports Project podcast. Joining me today is one of
the greatest wrestlers of all time, Jordan Burrows. Jordan is
highly decorated with over twenty five gold medals from international,
US and collegiate competitions. Jordan and I discussed everything from
why he's a youth sports advocate and the important lessons
learned from sports, to participation trophies and advice for kids
(00:48):
trying to play sports in college. I have another ridiculous guest,
but why I'm extra excited right now. My sons are
wearing his damn wrestling shoes. He's the go He's the legend,
one of the greatest of all time. Jordan Burrows JB.
Thanks were hopping on manns are having me, no doubt.
So here's what I want to start man, And I've
been following you for a long time, not just because
of your you know, athleticism and you know, your ability
(01:10):
to be so skilled and such on the map, but
where you kind of tugging my heart strings quite a
bit is you're a youth sports advocate. This didn't just
come about here recently. I noticed like a couple of
years ago, you know, you talking about how let kids
be kids. You know, we're not getting college scholarships at
ten you tournaments right, tell me this you're a parent,
But where does that come from? Like what makes you
feel moved enough to get on a pedestal and speak
(01:31):
from your heart and your experience on the topic of
youth sports. We've been around in games so long, you know,
I've been in the wrestling room at the University of
Nebraska for fifteen years, and then I've been to thousands
of wrestling camps, you know, selling the dream to all
of these huge athletes throughout the country, throughout the world,
even um for the entirety of my career. So I've
seen it at both levels. I've seen it from the
youth level when it's done properly and when it's done poorly,
(01:53):
and then I've also seen what the final product looks
like in a college wrestling room when it's down properly
and done really And so you know what I always
try to advocate for is, hey, listen, be an elite
is secondary. This is something that might just so happy
to be indirect result of creating structure and giving kids
(02:14):
an outlet to, you know, allow them to grow and
develop and build confidence and be active and fit and
learn how to be coachable and walk with humility and
do all these amazing things. That that was just what
it was when I was growing up. You signed up
for your local youth club, you paid your sixty bucks,
you got your wrestling singlet, and you went to any
tournament that you could find in the area. But now
(02:35):
it's it's morphed to two parents want their kids to
be elite for for a number of reasons. But you know,
I think ultimately it's it comes with a level of
grace that you have to operate with in order to
get your kids to love the support. First, I think
when you can develop a genuine appreciation for your craft,
that's when it becomes easier for you to be accountable,
even when your parents are always over top of you.
(02:57):
So right now, I'm just in a place where I'm
trying to figure out how to be as as gracious
in my approach and not be nasty to parents because
I categorized myself as one of them. I have kids.
I want them to be athletes, you know. I desire
for them to be great and athletics because it means
a lot to me. And then I have also done
(03:20):
it for such a long period of time that I'm like, man,
what kind of moments did my dad do well at?
Where did he kind of miss the market a little bit?
And how can I improve? Was a this generation such
a great point? And I have no experience in the
wrestling realm, but I played baseball in college. I played
a little bit professionally, and but I played you know,
different sports growing up and one thing that pressed me
(03:40):
to move. And I've been coaching my kids in all
these sports, you know, whether it be basketball, baseball, football.
My oldest is a junior in high school now, and
you know, he wants to wrestle in college, and I'm
sure that will happen at some level. But wrestling really
was a sport that I introduced my kids too, because
a good friend of mine and wrestled and said, hey,
it's great. And I always as a as a father,
I loved the idea of my kids learning how to
(04:03):
defend themselves. I was like, man, this is kind of
like a martial art, but at the same time it
will probably help them on the baseball field or football field,
a cross field. I just I'm a big advocate of
kids playing multiple sports and cross training, and one sport
helps the other. But when I got into the wrestling
room and saw my kids, I'm like, man, this sport
you can't blame the umpire, you can't blame the ball.
(04:23):
And I was like, dude, this makes my job as
apparent easier. Like talk about accountability. I blew me away.
I'm in love with the sport. But you mentioned the
word accountability, and we'll kind of get into the participation
trophy thing here for a little bit. But I want
to talk about that because I think that that's kind
of going by the wayside across the board, people and
parents are finding it hard to extract what I think
(04:44):
the true value in youth sports is, which is kind
of what you spoke on preparing kids for the path
as opposed to preparing the path for the kids were
trading short term performance over long term development in and
out of sport. A lot of reasons for that, but
it sounds to me like you want to make sure
they get those life lessons even more than just the
performance aspect. Is that kind of what you're talking about. Yeah,
for sure, I think it's necessary because ultimately you're trying
(05:06):
to create individuals of character that can be contributors to society.
Like that's the ultimate goal in this process. So you know,
anything beyond and above that is strictly icing on the cake.
But I think that we've kind of missed the mark
because we've tried to, you know, make athletes elite, but
within doing that, you forget all about the principles that
(05:29):
are necessary to be great and to have sustained excellence.
Like no one cares about winning right now. Like if
your kid is the best kid on the field at
this very moment in their careers, like that's not super
beneficial for their development and for their progression. You know.
I think what we're trying to get to is a
place where we understand that what we want to give
(05:51):
to our kids is the preparation for them to interact
with life and to be great individuals, you know. So
I think when I started sport as a young man
and I went to my very first tournament, I was like, Okay,
what can I become? You know, I'm not extremely confident.
I'm the youngest of four. I really don't feel like
I have a lot of purpose in anything that I do,
(06:11):
you know, And I'm getting to this space where, you know,
my dad's coming to watch me compete, my siblings are
coming to watch me compete, Like what does this mean
to me? Who am I? And why is this important?
I also started to figure out, you know, how can
I develop an identity for myself and really start to
extract more value out of what I can output into
(06:34):
the world. And that was really cool experience for me
because when I was a kid, my dad leaved to me,
but I didn't believe in myself. So when my realitied
in the line with who he thought I was, you know,
sometimes it could be frustrating, you know. And so when
you sort of unleased that power, almost like a superhero,
when you reveal what you're really capable of and you
learn how to harness those powers, like that's a special
(06:56):
moment for east individuals. So I think that's what sports
and athleticss for me. Like, if you grow up in
a middle class family, or if you grow up in
astute or a wealthy family, like, your life will never
be hard. You're life will simply never be hard. You
have no challenges. Everything is provided for you. You don't
grow up in the streets, nothing's rough, you don't have
to develop mental toughness or any grid. Everything's given to you.
(07:18):
So it's like, well, how can you replicate or simulate difficulty.
You have to play sports because it takes it takes
a whole lot of strenuous activity, and it takes a
lot of building mental toughness and character to be good
at athletics. So that's why I think athletics are so important.
It's like, if you didn't grow up in a difficult
area or in poverty, the best way to replicate difficulty
(07:41):
or obstacles or challenges for young kids is to put
them into athletics and to present them with challenges and
then to help prepare them to overcome them and empower
them along the way. You're getting me excited, man, You
fired me up. We're clicking on all cylinders because we're
like minded and I can hear the passion coming out
of you, and you know, it's disheartening. And you went
on a man, you went on a rant like a
week and a half ago about participation trophies, and it's funny.
(08:04):
I actually brought this up like two years ago with
a guy who's on our advisory board. He pitched for
the Red Sox named Lenny DeNardo. And here's what I
have found, you know, and I get the whole. I
don't want my kids to get a participate Like. First
of all, my first ever trophy was a participation troph
I got it when I was eight years old and
in nineteen nine, and I was like the most happy
human being in the world. I have no idea where
(08:24):
the trophy is, but I remember it, and I think
it's the only trop FAIR remember, except when I got
a state championship ringing high school in the national championship
in college. But I mean, I remember that first trophy,
and and when I read what your post said, I'm like, man,
I get it. But I have noticed the people who
quote unquote have the biggest um problem with kids getting
medals for showing up when they're young. I might be
(08:46):
generalizing here, but from my experience, there's a lot of
people who never really accomplished anything in their own athletic career. Um,
I'm not trying to point a finger making generalization. That
is just what I have seen or can't take a
step back and say, hey, what is this really about?
Because I think there's levels to development. Some kids, the
best they can do and extract from a youth sports
experience is to be a part of is to learn
(09:07):
about how to get on the line the right way
and to just have the confidence whereas other kids can
compete for championships. Some kids are a shell of themselves,
but sport will help make them more confident and go
into the world and be something else. So can you
talk about where the participation trophy came from and how
that all ties in and your passion for that, Yeah,
for sure. So you know, obviously I've got some implicit
bias just because of the fact that that was my
(09:30):
first trophy, so it it's very sentimental for me. Then
when I think about where I was in my career,
how I got started in the sport, and then you
know what kind of hooks me and kept me coming back.
But I also think that I've seen the sport done
at the highest level for such a long period of time.
I've seen what kind of keeps people drawn in. I've
seen what kids desire to have. You know, my kids
(09:52):
don't even play youth sports yet. You know, they're just
getting into what they're gonna do, hopefully for a long
period of time. So you know, I don't have a
ton of experience with my own children. But what I
do know is I've spent enough time around a lot
of use athletes all around the country to know enough
to think that, Hey, listen, kids find value and validation
(10:12):
at a young age, and that's what needs to understand.
It's like, this is not an adult here, Like we're
not giving this to a twenty year old. This is
a seven and eight year old. This is someone who
doesn't understand the value yet of hard work. This is
someone who doesn't know how to be consistent with their effort.
This is someone who freaking still poops their pants for
crying out loud. You know, like you have to you
have to understand they don't need to learn these hard
(10:34):
life less yet, but at some point we can start
to give them the details of what it looks like
to continuously improve in the fight for something knowing that
you didn't you know, you didn't win, Like giving your
best and winning are two completely different things. And that's
where I think we're kind of at this point now
where everyone's like, well, if they didn't win, then they
deserved nothing. And I'm like, well, that's not true. No
(10:56):
tournament that I ever went to to compete end did
I give less effort or have less prep ration just
because I didn't take first place? Like that's a complete lie.
So we have this mindset where guys are like, well,
if they didn't win, and they deserve nothing, Well, like,
the things that we should be celebrating are the effort,
the blavery, the courage. They're willingness to go out there,
like I've seen my kids in their own personal experiences
(11:17):
before they go to practice like that. I'm nervous, I'm scared.
I don't know these people. This is my first time here.
Why are they all looking at me? You know, we're
in a completely new place. I don't want to go
out on the map by myself, so I have to.
And also, like all of those things, I don't think
these people have an understanding of It's like, if you're
going to a new spot and you had to, you know,
give absolute effort and a sport as vulnerable and as
(11:40):
transparent as wrestling where you're literally just out there with
another opponent trying to rip your head off and you
gotta stand out there and fight like that's very tough
to do. So, you know, I think that the reward
for them should be, you know, based on their willingness
to get out there, and then you sit them down
and they have a conversation with them after that that
origin story and say, hey, listen, understand that there's still
(12:02):
three more trophies that are much bigger than this one
that we want today, and there's still much more that
we can get from ourselves. This is a great start.
This is I'm so proud of your effort. I'm so
proud of your willingness to fight. And you were really
creatious out there today. You're working on the things that
we were practicing. You're being a good listener, and you
were smiling. You look like you had a good time. Now,
(12:23):
let's go back to the drawing board on Monday and
we'll continue to improve on our skills. Here's where we
where we got beat, Here's where we need to get
better at but I'm so thankful for your willingness to compete.
I think you can be really good at this, you know,
And so like, I think that that's kind of where
we're missing the mark. We're giving too much correction and
too much challenge and not enough support and encouragement. It's like,
(12:45):
you can give people challenges, but if you never support
them in these challenges, you're gonna create this militant like
drills target environment where kids are like I only do
this because my dad tells me that I need and
no love, there's no admiration, there's no appreciation to their craft.
So eventually they're gonna either burn out or your relationship
is gonna suffer because of it. So I think that
(13:07):
what I've seen, or at least away in the method
that I'm gonna try to implement to my own children
is just to give them as much love as possible
while presenting challenge to them. So it's like equal love,
equal challenge, high support, high obstacles. So it's like, hey,
I believe in you, I believe that capable of doing this,
and I'm setting these high expectations for you because I
(13:29):
want you to be great and you know, for some
kids that might be a little too much. I think
you might need to scale back a little bit. And
it's all about, you know, discernment and understanding how to
navigate these conversations depending upon the personality of the individual.
But ultimately, you know, I think we have to we
have to step back for a second and think of
how would I want to be addressed if I position
(13:52):
Because too many times it's like, you hear the old
adage treat people the way you want to be treated. Well,
it's like it's not true, because what the heck, what
if they don't want to be treated the way you
want to be treated. I like being yelled at when
I go to train. Everyone doesn't want to be yelled at.
So it's like, it's not treat people the way you
want to be treated, treat people the way they want
to be treated. So it's like, how can this person
(14:13):
get the most effective critique from whatever process they're trying
to improve upon. Don't talk to them the way that
you would want to be talked to, Talk to them
the way in which you think they can receive it best.
I think that's where we have to start to, you know,
be a little more gracious and and be a little
more strategic, like we've got to learn how to semest
as opposed to just like hammering into our kids that
(14:34):
because it's it's so hard, man being great at athletics.
It's so hard, it's a long journey, takes a lot
of work, and it's it's too hard not to have
a good time doing it. That's Jordan Burrows, one of
the greatest wrestlers of all time. When we returned, Jordan
and I will discuss retention issues within your sports, early
sports specialization and advice for kids trying to play sports
(14:54):
in college. Welcome back to the Reformed Sports Project podcast,
where Jordan and I left off when we were about
to dig further into the importance of having fun, early
sports specialization and advice for those looking to play sports
(15:15):
in college. So Ben Ashker and I know you obviously
guys are I would imagine somewhat close have relationship. He's
been a huge help and helping this project from the beginning,
and we've talked quite a bit about retention, you know,
and I will say wrestling as a sport at the
youth level, I think Ben told me the number. It's
somewhere in the vicinity of losing like kids a year
(15:35):
like and probably wise. Man, it's a hard sport, dude,
It's hard, right, there's so many, so many elements your diet.
You know you've got kids. I went to Super thirty
two my son the first time you went there, and
I see little nine year olds are like cutting weight.
I'm like, we're what way do they cut? And but
like how do you retains right? So so you mentioned
the word fun, and a lot of times people think
(15:56):
you can't have fun and be competitive at the same time,
whereas I think it sounds like you think they coexist
and they have to coexist. I mean, you're thirty, I
think thirty plus years old. Are you still having as
much fun now? And if you didn't have the fun,
do you think you'd still be at it? Yes, you
have to have fun. Every day is not fun. I'm
gonna just be completely honest with you. But I'm old
enough and mature enough to understand that my commitment to
(16:19):
my craft sometimes have to have to, you know, supersede
my ability to you know, love and enjoy what I'm
doing at that particular moment. I don't feel like training
every day, you know, I have a lot of responsibilities
at home, but I also know that if I want
to be great at this sport, I have a responsibility
to the public that every time I present myself, I
have to be at my best, and I take that
(16:40):
with a lot of pride, and I always want to
be ready. So what I like to think is wrestling
is a really hard sport. There's some days where I
sit at my son's practice and I'm like, man, this
is so hard, Like I can see why someone wouldn't
want to do this long term. It's bro Like there's
certain days where I'm like, I didn't even enjoy watching this.
(17:00):
So I can imagine what it's like to be a
seven year old and someone's teaching you how to shoot
a high crotch. You know, you're like, I just want
to freaking play dodgeball. I think there has to be
like a kind of an equal amount of fun and activities,
but also, you know, kind of figuring out a way
how can I teach this sport to make it more palatable,
like where people want to come back and they want
(17:21):
to be a part of it, and they want, you know,
they see the kind of the benefits of being in
something great, like this because Yeah, for sure, I see
it a lot of days when I'm at practice with
my little ones and I'm like, man, this is so hard,
Like I if you don't want to come back to
ma all, I completely get it. But here's why we should.
Uh So, Yeah, I think fun is a big part
of it. I personally think that there is a particular
(17:43):
moment in time when you can start to teach people
about competitive nature and and what it means to be
great at something. But ultimately, as as young men and women,
I think there's a time and place for that, and
I don't think it's immediately and used athletics. So you know,
I'm a guy that preferred to delay what we're giving
to them so eventually they can kind of hunger for
(18:06):
it themselves. Where it's like, you know, been asking you
to said the best. He was like, how do you
know when someone's ready to compete? And it was like, well,
basically they start begging you and they're asking a dad,
can wrestle? Can I do this gymnastics event? Can I
play in this soccer game? Can I win a trophy?
Can I go out there and compete and see what
it's like? But you know, my kids are in a
unique position because of what I do and the accomplishments
that I've had, So I'm in this kind of tricky
(18:27):
dynamic where I'm also trying to protect them from what
I imagine that they will experience at some point, because
people are gonna be excited to try to beat them
just because of you know who I am. Sure I
want to ask you this. I don't know you're a
full athletic background. But a big component I think of
youth sports is there's a push by club owners and such,
what we gotta get all this kid's attention. We gotta
(18:49):
get it all year round. So there's like a hyper specialization. Um.
And I'm just curious of your thoughts, like with your
own kids, would you want them to sample a variety
of things alway? Like no, we're gonna go and the
best you could be. And what are your thoughts on
the whole early specialization versus you know, kids playing multiple
sports at least sampling them while they're younger at least, Yeah,
for sure, I mean so many sports fun. Wrestling wasn't
(19:10):
even my favorite sport growing up. I just happened to be.
It was the sport that I was best at. And
so that's kind of why I decided to focus on it,
and not because I loved it most, but I was.
I got to high school and I weighed a hundred pounds,
and so I was like, well, I love playing football
for a long time, but it doesn't look like I'm
gonna go to the NFL. It's kind of time for
me to to kind of take that dose to reality
(19:32):
and say, Okay, well what can I do that will
give me the best opportunity to go to college? And
it was kind of a sober experience, but you know,
it was helpful because I got to specialize in something,
but not until much later in my career. Like when
I was a kid, I played a little bit of everything.
I did t ball, I ran track, I played football,
and then wrestling, you know, just so happened to be
the thing that I was best at. But you know,
my kids are in a little bit of everything. My
(19:53):
son he played soccer, he's in gymnastics, and then he
also wrestles as well. Um, so you know, I think
a mixture of things trying to figure out what they enjoyed.
You know, I love wrestling, so I wanted them to
try it at a minimum um. But if they favor
something else and they become great as something else, and
you know that's just the nature of the beast, you
have to be willing to pivot and start to figure
(20:15):
out what else it is that they enjoy and if
that's something that doesn't happen to be in your wheelhouse,
and we can try to discover this new sport together.
But I don't want to like kind of pigeonhole them
into a position where they're like, Okay, I can only
do this because this is what dad really loves and
anything else is he's going to disagree with. I hope
that I'm not that guy. I love it. Last question,
(20:36):
tell me that you're gonna have a lot of parents.
You're gonna have a lot of sports parents. You're gonna
have a lot of youth athletes. You're gonna have kids,
You're gonna have coaches. I gonna have a lot of
coaches that listen to this. And it's gonna be George,
It's gonna be all different sports. I mean, there's gonna
be a lot of baseball, basketball, I mean a ton
of wrestling too, but I mean every sport possible, soccer. People,
they're gonna be listening to you, going what what is
the best way? What's a piece of advice you'd give?
(20:57):
How do I get to go and be a college athlete?
What's the secret sauce? How do I get there? Is
there any tip that you can give these kids and
parents and how they can help the kids and how
the kids can out put themselves in the position to
become college athletes one day? Yeah, for sure. I think
first is they have to be men and women of character.
That's number one. Like, if you want to be great
at athletics, but also if you want to be someone
(21:17):
that's trustworthy and reliable that can be counted on, you're
gonna have to be a person of integrity. So, you know,
I think the first things first for parents, they need
to teach kids to be accountable. They need to teach
kids to handle a load of work and be consistent
with their efforts, and to teach them to be coachable,
to operate with humility, and then to also be good teammates,
(21:37):
to show up on time, to stay out of trouble,
and to do both academically and socially. That's going to
be the most important thing. People ask me all the
time like, how do I get into college if I
haven't shown the results that you know, ultimately i'd like
to have. Well, I'm like, well, there are a lot
of guys that I was teammates worth in college that
weren't the best guys in the team. Shoot, some of
them weren't even starters. But what they were were men
(21:58):
and women of integrity. They were always people that you
could count on. And they were guys that we call
low maintenance guys that basically you just tell them what
to do, and they made sure that it was dark.
And so I think too many people, because they're trying
to be great athletics, we forget to teach them how
to be great individuals. So it's like you've raised this
this athlete and they're phenomenal sportsman, but you know, they
(22:20):
don't know how to set an alarm clock. They don't
know how to you know, to talk to their tutors
and let them know that they're gonna be late today
or they're gonna miss, you know, a class because they've
got in a way, me like all of these little
things that people need to understand if you want to
truly teach your kids how to be great at the
elite level, Like you're gonna need to teach them how
to be men and women that people can trust, and
they're gonna have to be mature beyond their years, and
(22:42):
they're gonna have to learn how to communicate, and that's
gonna be the most important factor. But then besides that,
I think ultimately it's like you're gonna have to just
put them in a place where you can create structure
for them that they can find pleasure and joy out
of what it is that they're doing. Because wrestling is
a really hard sport. So if you push them too
hard too soon, they're gonna hate it and they're gonna quit,
(23:02):
or you know, I think you can make a different
approach where you say what feels right, how many what's
the frequency of practices that feels good? Where they're not overwhelmed,
and let's have an open relationship where we're constantly check
in and listen to their minds and their hearts and
saying hey, buddy, like, how how are you? How are
you doing? Bro? Like? Are you good? How it's practice?
Do you want to go against tomorrow? Like in understanding
(23:24):
the difference between laziness and you just being overwhelmed, because
I need there are a lot of times we're trying
to push them for the sake of making them great,
but we don't realize that we need to take a
step back and kind of analyze their feelings and how
their approach to the sport can be, you know, done
in a better way. So yeah, I think creating structure,
constantly checking on their hearts to make sure that they
(23:46):
love it, you know, teaching them commitment to something so
you know, if we start this, we're gonna finish it,
and we're gonna see it through and then as seasons
and we can evaluate it. But also knowing that I'm
not pushing you to necessarily do this. If there's a
day or so that we feel like we need to
take a break, or we might have an alternative that
might be a little bit better, like doing those things.
And then obviously, you know, lastly, just teaching character and
(24:07):
making sure they're having a good time doing it. I
think all parents have great tensions, but we just have
poor execution, you know. So it's like we're not doing
this with a sort of maliciousness in our heart. We're
just kind of we wanted so bad for them, because
you know, most kids lack confidence and what we're trying
to get to saying hey, buddy, I need you to
hold yourself accountable, to do the right things because they're
(24:28):
the right things and not just because it's what Dad
told you to do. Like that's how you're going to
get what it is you know that you seek. So
the beauty for me and my own personal experiences, everything
that I own is based upon my hard work and
my character that I built through the support of wrestling.
So I get to show my kids the living embodiment
of everything that we have, that everything that we own,
(24:49):
all the things that we get to enjoy it. But
also I'm still competing. I'm an active competitor, so my
kids need to see what work looks like. I take
my practice with me multiple times a week so they
can see what work ethic looks like. They see train,
they see me cut wait, they see me in the
song and go for runs rather to bike, sweat, workout, stretch.
They see those things, so it's tangible. I think people
parents especially need to start to integrate their kids into
(25:11):
their work lives more so they can understand what it
is that their parents do. Because if you don't see work,
all you see. Is your dad come home from a
long day. You haven't seen them all day, and now
all of a sudden, he's been the newspaper, just sitting
on the couch, watch the TV. You're like, well, money's
in the bank, food is always on the table. We
have everything we need. I don't really know what my
dad does. All I ever seen him do is watch TV. So,
you know, I think it's we're in a unique place
(25:32):
where we need to integrate our our families into our
work lives so we can show them. Hey, son, Like
this might be different and it might be indirect, but
this is what work looks up for me. Now, your
job is to work hard at school and also work
hard at your sports. And so I think that's gonna
be important to for for all the parents that have
to show their kids a way to work hard. They
(25:54):
need to integrate them into their workplace so they can
show them a tangible piece of what they do so
they can kind of get it, like, uh, this is
why mom and dad leave the house for eight hours
a day and our food always mysteriously appears in the refrigerator, right,
So I think that's something that we kind of need
to start to implement too, And you know, I think
all these things are good things, but ultimately, you know,
(26:15):
it's it's gonna come down to grace and the spirit
of the individual that we're trying to work on. Jordan Burrows, Man,
I wish we had another two hours. You are stud
you are a legend, a living legend, and you are
youth sports advocate man on top of an unbelievable athlete. Man,
I can't thank you enough for your time. Yeah. Absolutely, bro,
thanks for having me a man as a pleasure. That's
Jordan Burrows, one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.
(26:37):
Thanks for listening to The Reform Sports Project podcast dom
Nick Boncourt and Our goal is to restore a healthy
balance and perspective in all areas of sports through education
and advocacy. For updates, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram, or check out our website by searching for
the Reform Sports Project
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