October 27, 2021 • 20 mins
Jennifer Patrick-Swift has turned the NC State Softball team into a top ACC contender since joining the program as Head Coach in 2018. Prior to NC State, she coached at the mid-major DI, DII, and DIII levels, earning numerous awards and accolades over the years. Coach Patrick-Swift joins Nick to discuss parents’ role in youth sports today, her experience as a DIII player, and her recruiting philosophy as a coach in a Power Five conference.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
If you are too in the moment with performance, you
won't even have a chance for development because that kid
is gonna want to quit. That's where you ask yourself
as parents, as my kid one of the top hundred
and twenty five players in the country, and that's where
you've got to be real with that. Goals are one thing,
(00:25):
but they have to be somewhat tangible. This is the
Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy balance and
perspective in all areas of sports, your education, and advocacy. Hi,
this is Nick Boonacoort from the Reformed Sports Project podcast.
(00:46):
My guest today is the head softball coach from NC
State University, the Wolfpack, Jennifer Patrick Swift. Coach Patrick Swift
and I talked a ton about youth sports and the
current culture, everything from her experience as a sports parent,
from her experience as a D three athlete now coaching
in the a c C, and her path along the way.
Coach also talks about many tips that parents can use
(01:08):
to help their kids navigate today's youth sports culture. Coach
Patrick Swift, thank you so much for coming on. We're
pumped to have you. Thank you so much for having
me I'm looking forward to taking. Yeah, you and I
are a little bit more connected than a lot of
the guests have. I'm you're obviously softball baseball, but we
played at two of the best Division three programs in
the country in North Carolina Wesley and when I was
(01:28):
there in mephist And you're now coaching at the highest
level in college sports right Division one A and in
a Power five conference. And and what I want to
ask you is a lot of times and youth sports
today there's this big chase like everything it starts and
see it at like seven years old. You know, parents
at times we gotta go D one, D one, D one.
It's like, you know, I get it right, that's it
should be a great goal. But can you talk a
(01:49):
little bit about you know, this whole D one or
bust mentality from your experience, what's the difference? Is it
all about D one? Just kind of elaborate there if
you don't mind, Well, I think the first were in.
Part of it is people and you know, parents kind
of want to overlook is you know, how good is
your kid? Everybody wants to go Division one because they
(02:09):
think it's the biggest and best. Like you said, but
you know, I know, for me, when I went Division three,
I went there because I fell in love with the campus.
I fell in love with the coach, I fell in
love with everything in addition to softball. Like I knew
I was going to play softball somewhere, but I just
had that fill in my gut when I went to Methodists,
and that's why I picked Methodists. But you know, I
(02:31):
think for me, you know, could I have gone do one?
I don't know when I came out of high school.
I I didn't peak really until my junior year in college,
so I probably would have sat the bench for at
least two or three years at Division one before I
even got a chance. And so that's kind of what
like when I'm recruiting, I talked to parents and student
athletes about what do you want your college story to
(02:53):
look like when you graduate from college and you're telling
your kids ten years later, What do you want your
story to say to the You know, is it more
important to you that I went to this big name
school and you know, flashing lights and having fun on
football games on Saturday. But I sat at the bench
my first two years. Um Or I was a role player?
Or is it. Man, Like, I went to a school
(03:15):
I loved it. It was Division three, it was a
smaller school. You know, I was close to everybody on
the different teams, and you know, professors knew my name,
and I played for four years and we were a
regional championship team. And you know, I think it's just
you're right. I think people have gotten lost in in
what the hype that they think. And that's the key word.
(03:36):
They think that D one is all about. But it's
all about the experience, and you can have that experience
at any level. You just got me fired up because
you said something and it was beautiful right in the
beginning when you said everyone wants to go D one,
but how good is my child? So I think, as
a parent, and you have children as well, I'd like
to think I'm subjective, that I that I'm not like this,
but who knows, right, I mean, it's easy to put
(03:57):
blinders on, right. I think it's important now. I believe
in my hearts and my two older boys are athletes.
I can kind of gauge, you know, what their skill
set is. But regardless, I don't think people quite understand
the levels of Division one and the levels of Division
two levels, Division three, and how good you have to
be to play at a Power five conference like and
(04:18):
I know there are mid major D one schools that
can beat some lower Power five in certain sports, and
baseball is one of those deals where if you have softball,
I'm share is the same. A good picture at a
Division three can pound out a Division one school any
day of the week. Our picture can make a big difference.
But how good do you have to be to play
at NC State? I mean not everyone can play there. Yeah,
And I think again that's with looking at the program.
(04:40):
I think, you know, two years ago before we had
the job, and you know, they weren't necessarily at the
top of the conference. They were quite honestly at the bottom.
And I think if you even look across Power five programs,
if you look at like the bottom third or bottom
quarter of the conference, you know your top mid major
D one schools are gonna win those games all day.
(05:00):
I mean, we came from St. Francis where we were
posting forty one seasons and we were playing fifteen twenty
Power five games a year, and we were beating those teams.
Now as we went into the regionals, that's where you
really get exploited if you don't, like you said, if
you don't have a top ten, top fifteen type pitcher
in the country, Um, it's pretty hard to win those games.
(05:23):
And we felt like we took it as far as
we could at St. Francis. But I mean, if you're playing,
let's say the top twenty five and you're one of
those people, you know, starting you gotta figure five teams.
There's you know, nine ten depending on picture hitter, picture
straight pitcher what um I mean do the math. That's
not a lot of people. So and again, like that's
(05:44):
where you asked yourself as parents, as my kid one
of the top hundred and twenty five players in the country,
and that's where you you've got to be real with that.
Goals are one thing, but they have to be somewhat tangible.
You know, if your kid is having problems starting in
high school, then I think that you've got to be
a realistic Well, are they going to be a starter
on the top twenty five team? Probably not? So tell
(06:06):
me this. I hear this a lot, and then we'll
kind of shift gears here. But and I mean I
hear it, I hear it a lot. Coach my ten
year olds getting recruited already, you know, my eight year
old they're getting looks, and I'm going, what, like what
that's what it's turned into, Like come on, are you
And I'm not. I know it's funny to laugh at,
but a lot of times these individual rankings, you know,
and I'm gonna want to pick on any companies or anything,
I get it, but these individual rankings like seven, eight, nine,
(06:29):
I'm the best eight year old in the country or
top ten. Our college coaches out recruiting little league games,
are they talking to you know, are they going to
machine pitch games to scout talent? I absolutely am not
and will not ever do that. Um, you know, I
think like in my sixteen years of coaching, there's probably
been like two or three times where you know, our
(06:49):
camps generally were like eighth grade to twelve, and um,
you'd have a six or seventh grader that would come
in and that you would just be like, she's just athletic,
She's just God blessed her with athletic genes. And there
were times where that seventh grader was had a prettier
sling than the tenth and eleventh graders. So I mean,
obviously you try and keep getting them to come to
camp because you don't know that kid might have peaks
(07:11):
right there, but you know she might eventually be really good.
So that's like the only time that I'm ever looking
at kids that young, and that's just because they're on
my campus for camp and it's fun to see. You know,
the majority of kids, you know aren't that great at
that age, so when you have somebody that is, it's
just fun to interact with them and see them. But no,
(07:32):
I mean, unfortunately, you know, the last two or three years, UM,
a lot of the rules that have come out within
softball specifically, UM, I don't agree with because I like
to build relationships with kids and with families. And so
for me now, trying to build a program that was
at the bottom of the A C C and trying
to get it to a top twenty five program with
(07:53):
recruiting only being Saturdays and Sundays and for a couple
of weeks in the fall, and and now we can't
talk to them and you know, until their junior year,
and UM, where we could do it before if they
were on campus, things like that to let them know
we were interested in recruiting now it's to the point
where I can't build those relationships with kids anymore. But
I wasn't one of the people out recruiting fix six
(08:15):
seventh graders, and so unfortunately, I think a lot of
those rules were made because of the four or five
programs that might have been doing that. But at the
end of the day, if I can tell you, like,
it's not happening here, it's not happening with my kids,
and and to be honest, you know, it shouldn't be
happening anywhere because kids have to be kids, Like, that's
a huge chunk of your life that you won't get back,
(08:37):
and parents need to realize that at the time, and
kids aren't going to realize that at the time. And
it's just you've gotta as a parent and speaking as one,
you cannot live through your kids. And I see that
a lot. You know, Um, it's awesome to have kids.
If you have them that they're that talented, that young,
that's amazing, And like I said, God gifted them with that,
(09:00):
and hopefully they go on to use that that. You
have got to stay humble, and you've got to stay grounded,
and your first and foremost is to be mom. Or
be dad and raise that child. Um. And then as
they get older and get to that point in their
life when they're in high school and think about those things.
But I I see it a lot where it's parents
(09:20):
living through kids, and that's just you know, it's a
hard conversation for someone to have, but somebody needs to
have that with those parents. Um. But it's not going
to be me. You know, it's easy to get sucked
into it. There was a ton though, I I would
say it's probably about a year or so, maybe two
years where I was like, I don't want to say
living through my kid, but I had those car rides,
(09:41):
you know, where I'm in my kids in the back
seat and I'm breaking down his at bats when he's
eight years old, you know, seven years old, and he's
trying to eat an Italian ice or a hot dog
and I'm there. You know, I remember one time breaks
my heart. I told him I was disappointed at him
because he made an error and maybe struck out. And
now I look back and I'm like, God, what an
idiot I was. You know, like all think its supposed
to do as you tell them, you love them, you
love to watch them play. It's so much fun to
(10:03):
watch them, no matter how they perform. And I think
it comes back to there's too much focus, I believe,
and I would love you to go into this little
bit on short term performance versus you know, long term development.
How important is it to focus on the development of
the human being as opposed to just well, you were
all for three today, or you swim the fastest time,
or you've got two goals performance versus development. Well, to
(10:24):
be honest, I think that if you are two in
the moment with performance, you won't even have a chance
for development because that kid is going to want to quit.
And so if you want them to develop and continue
to love it and want to say, hey let's go
play catch in the backyard, or hey let's go hit
a little bit, you have got to control yourself when
(10:48):
it comes to performance in the moment. And I know
for me it was really hard for me. I'm not
a natural athlete. It's funny, like I say, if you
put me on any other court or field or um
bowling alley, anything like that, you would never believe I
was a Division one coach. Ever, I was a dancer
and a cheerleader in my whole life. But softball I
(11:09):
loved and I wanted to be really good at it.
It didn't come naturally to me, and I had to work.
So for me, when I look at my kids, Um,
you know, my oldest one is a lot like me,
and I wanted so bad to come I wanted for
her to come easy, and it doesn't only because I
know how how hard I had to work even to
get okay at the sport. And so for me, I
(11:32):
find myself being like frustrated that gosh, like I just
wish I would have gave her better jeans, you know,
I wish it just came easier to her something like that.
So I just have to constantly tell myself, like, let
her have fun. She's got to have fun, or she's
never gonna want to pick up that ball and pick
up that bat. And so, you know, it's it's one
of those things where there won't be development in the
(11:53):
future because that kid will walk away. I've seen it
so many times. I've seen it as I was growing
up with my my friends and kids i've played with,
and I see it every year on the recruiting trail,
and most times it's it's a stud. It's a stud
that walks away because they've been pushed too hard for
so long that there is no enjoyment out of it.
So that's where I think you've got to enjoy the
(12:16):
day to day and if they go over three, you've
got to find a way to find a positive in it.
Like you've busted so hard out of the box on
that one, you know, And I'm not wanting to give
like false praises and things like that, but again, if
you're dealing with the sticks seven year old, you absolutely
have to do that. Like you want to get them excited,
and they're just trying to please mom and dad at
(12:37):
that point, right or wrong. So if they get excited
and you get excited, that's what it's about. And then
if you can continue that relationship as you get older
and they get older, then you have the chance to
develop when their body can physically do that. That's Jennifer
Patrick Swift, head softball coach and see State Wolfpack when
we come back. Coach Patrick Swift and I will discuss adversity,
(12:59):
how dad and metrics affect you sports, and her advice
for those hoping to be recruited by the wolf Fact.
Welcome back to the Reform Sports Project podcast dom Nick Bonacourt,
and today we have Jennifer Patrick Swift, head coach of
(13:19):
the n C State softball team. Where we left off,
Jennifer and I were about to dive into the effects
adversity has on developing athletes, how and when coaches should
utilize data and measurement tools, and what she looks for
in new recruits. One thing that comes up a lot
is adversity, right, and you hear it all the time.
(13:40):
I remember when I was coaching people who never played
the game, like, why is my kid in the outfield?
And I'm sitting here going what I couldn't understand that
at first, Like what do you mean your kids in that?
What does that mean is that? What do you think
it's a downgrade? Like I don't understand. Number one, I
don't want to put everyone in the infield, because at
those ages some kids can get hurt. But what ends
up happening is if you've got two fairly good athletes
who want to play shorts up a dad will or
mom whatever, We'll take their kid off their team and
(14:01):
they'll start their own. And you hear it all the time.
Let's create the path for our kids instead of getting
our kid ready for the path from your experience, and
we're talking about a little bit older here and getting
into middle school and high school. How important is it
for us as parents to let our kids fail and
to face adversity and learn how to overcome it. It's
extremely important. I got about half my doctorate done in
psychology because after I got my other degrees, I wanted
(14:24):
to be able to most importantly help the mental side
of my athletes, help them reach their potential as individuals,
so that collectively our team could reach our highest potential.
But within that, there were so many things that I've
taken that I now apply in recruiting, and a lot
of that is I'm going to be diving into that
(14:45):
recruits path. Tell me where did you play for how long?
What positions did you play when you started playing? You know?
And if there is a you know, I've played on
this team in this team where I'm recruiting a kid
in ninth grade and by the time they're a junior,
they've play on three different teams. And again there's exceptions
here and there. Um, it's not a hard fast statement,
(15:06):
but there's there's a reason for that. One is that
the parents, too is it the kids. I try and
do a good job of getting to know the kids
because sometimes you have parents that are a little bit
more involved maybe than they should be. Will say that word,
how important is it for the kids to speak for themselves?
Is that what you're talking about? Well, I mean just
(15:26):
involved with everything. Maybe the kid didn't want to leave
the team, but the parents did. The parents wanted them
to have, like you said, to create that path. And
so like there are times where you know, parents have
one personality and the kid is completely different. Those someones
are few and far between, because most of the time
that apple doesn't fall far from the tree. So again,
(15:47):
like when I'm recruiting, obviously people are like, what do
you always look for? Number One, You've got to be
able to play. People don't talk about that either, Like
you can be a great person, you know, and we
look for that too, great person, great teammate. But at
the end of the day, I'm trying to get to
Oaklandhoma City and win a national championship. You've got to
be able to play, but too, you have to be
(16:08):
a good person, you have to be a good teammate
and all of those things too. But that path to
how you got, where you are is going to determine
where are you going to go? Like, where are you going?
Are you done going there? Are you going to go further?
When you're away from your parents or your parents going
to almost hold you back because it's a continual problem
(16:29):
with involvement. You know, tell me this. You know there's
a data heavy component. Now it's a baseball and softball
and other sports, and I'm learning a lot more about them.
You know, your spin rates, your your exit velos, your
your launch angles and all that, and I get the
purpose for those things. How important though, is that at
the youth level I'm talking twelve you, I think the
most important thing is for the coaches that are coaching
(16:51):
those teams to know what the heck they're talking about.
And I don't think there should be sensors on bats.
I don't think there should be sensors on balls when
you're talking about twelve under ten under like those are developments.
Those coaches just need to make sure that can this
hitter move properly as in, you know, can they hit
a ball and drive through a ball and you know,
(17:12):
have a decent swing, and can they filled the ball
out in front and move with the right footsteps and
you know, throw the ball and play catch like that
is the level where that needs to happen. It's you're right,
this is trickling down. The data is amazing. I use
it every day in my job. But that shouldn't be
happening at those levels. And as that it comes down
(17:34):
and the amazing science and technology behind what we have
at our level continues to grow. I already see it
taking away from just teach them how to play catch,
teach them how to make contact, from how to hit
a ball, you know, like if as a coach, if
I'm a twelve you coach, and I love that stuff
and that's my passion, that's my hobby for me to
(17:55):
learn in the background, and that's honestly what I do
and how I use it. I'm dealing with, you know,
really good athletes. But most of the technology I'm using
behind the scenes, I'm analyzing, I'm interpreting that data and
then I'm just saying, you know, going out to one
of the players and saying, hey, we need to swing
the bat a little bit faster today, we need to
get after it more. I want you to try and
(18:16):
run it out a little bit more knowing that the
last three or four days, you know that their exit
VLO has been down, But I'm not going to go
up to them and say that right away, you know.
So I just think that, especially at that level, I
don't think there needs to be any part of it
at that level, because again, if you're doing it at
that level, it's because you're trying to get a number,
probably to push the kid, to try and recruit a kid.
(18:37):
So that shouldn't be happening in my opinion either. So
none of that matters. All that manags is can they
hit a ball? Can they play catch? You know, let's
focus on that and let the minute detailed development get
get to the point where one, if that's where your
kid wants to go and that down that path, they
can do that maybe on their own if they want
(18:57):
to specialize when they get in high school and since things,
and obviously in college too, but they're not ready for
them minute details like and and and it's just too
overwhelming for them mentally as well. Let's pretend there's one
young ladies softball players that are freshman in high school
sophomores asked to want to come play for the wolf
Pack thirty second piece of advice you'd give them. The
big thing is keep your grads up. Um, work hard,
(19:21):
and work hard because you want to, not because you
have to. And challenge yourself every day when you get up,
when you think, I get to go to school, I
get to go to practice, I get to go play today. Um,
you don't have to do any of that stuff. You
know you're blessed to be able to do that, and
the challenge needs to be what do you want to
do with that? Do you want to play at the
(19:42):
highest level? And then where is your skill set? Comparatively speaking,
if you want to play college softball, you can find
a place for you and what does that look like?
And if it's not at NC State in the wolf Pack,
we'll be honest with you. But we also have a
lot of contacts at all levels where you know, I
might send you to, Hey, checkout Methodist. It's a great program.
(20:03):
It's the same coach there, um you know, And it's
one of those things where is sometimes it's tough, you
got to be real, but at the same time, I
would rather see a player player for four years and
we have a great experience. If it's not an NC
State to do it somewhere then for them to come
and sit the bench at NC State just because their
talent level isn't quite where it needs to be for us.
(20:25):
That's Jennifer Patrick, Swift, head softball coach at NC State University.
Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Project podcast. I'm
Nick Bonecourt and our goal is to restore a healthy
balance and perspective in all areas of sport through education
and advocacy. For updates, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram, or check out our website by searching for
(20:47):
the Reform Sports Project
If you are too in the moment with performance, you
won't even have a chance for development because that kid
is gonna want to quit. That's where you ask yourself
as parents, as my kid one of the top hundred
and twenty five players in the country, and that's where
you've got to be real with that. Goals are one thing,
(00:25):
but they have to be somewhat tangible. This is the
Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy balance and
perspective in all areas of sports, your education, and advocacy. Hi,
this is Nick Boonacoort from the Reformed Sports Project podcast.
(00:46):
My guest today is the head softball coach from NC
State University, the Wolfpack, Jennifer Patrick Swift. Coach Patrick Swift
and I talked a ton about youth sports and the
current culture, everything from her experience as a sports parent,
from her experience as a D three athlete now coaching
in the a c C, and her path along the way.
Coach also talks about many tips that parents can use
(01:08):
to help their kids navigate today's youth sports culture. Coach
Patrick Swift, thank you so much for coming on. We're
pumped to have you. Thank you so much for having
me I'm looking forward to taking. Yeah, you and I
are a little bit more connected than a lot of
the guests have. I'm you're obviously softball baseball, but we
played at two of the best Division three programs in
the country in North Carolina Wesley and when I was
(01:28):
there in mephist And you're now coaching at the highest
level in college sports right Division one A and in
a Power five conference. And and what I want to
ask you is a lot of times and youth sports
today there's this big chase like everything it starts and
see it at like seven years old. You know, parents
at times we gotta go D one, D one, D one.
It's like, you know, I get it right, that's it
should be a great goal. But can you talk a
(01:49):
little bit about you know, this whole D one or
bust mentality from your experience, what's the difference? Is it
all about D one? Just kind of elaborate there if
you don't mind, Well, I think the first were in.
Part of it is people and you know, parents kind
of want to overlook is you know, how good is
your kid? Everybody wants to go Division one because they
(02:09):
think it's the biggest and best. Like you said, but
you know, I know, for me, when I went Division three,
I went there because I fell in love with the campus.
I fell in love with the coach, I fell in
love with everything in addition to softball. Like I knew
I was going to play softball somewhere, but I just
had that fill in my gut when I went to Methodists,
and that's why I picked Methodists. But you know, I
(02:31):
think for me, you know, could I have gone do one?
I don't know when I came out of high school.
I I didn't peak really until my junior year in college,
so I probably would have sat the bench for at
least two or three years at Division one before I
even got a chance. And so that's kind of what
like when I'm recruiting, I talked to parents and student
athletes about what do you want your college story to
(02:53):
look like when you graduate from college and you're telling
your kids ten years later, What do you want your
story to say to the You know, is it more
important to you that I went to this big name
school and you know, flashing lights and having fun on
football games on Saturday. But I sat at the bench
my first two years. Um Or I was a role player?
Or is it. Man, Like, I went to a school
(03:15):
I loved it. It was Division three, it was a
smaller school. You know, I was close to everybody on
the different teams, and you know, professors knew my name,
and I played for four years and we were a
regional championship team. And you know, I think it's just
you're right. I think people have gotten lost in in
what the hype that they think. And that's the key word.
(03:36):
They think that D one is all about. But it's
all about the experience, and you can have that experience
at any level. You just got me fired up because
you said something and it was beautiful right in the
beginning when you said everyone wants to go D one,
but how good is my child? So I think, as
a parent, and you have children as well, I'd like
to think I'm subjective, that I that I'm not like this,
but who knows, right, I mean, it's easy to put
(03:57):
blinders on, right. I think it's important now. I believe
in my hearts and my two older boys are athletes.
I can kind of gauge, you know, what their skill
set is. But regardless, I don't think people quite understand
the levels of Division one and the levels of Division
two levels, Division three, and how good you have to
be to play at a Power five conference like and
(04:18):
I know there are mid major D one schools that
can beat some lower Power five in certain sports, and
baseball is one of those deals where if you have softball,
I'm share is the same. A good picture at a
Division three can pound out a Division one school any
day of the week. Our picture can make a big difference.
But how good do you have to be to play
at NC State? I mean not everyone can play there. Yeah,
And I think again that's with looking at the program.
(04:40):
I think, you know, two years ago before we had
the job, and you know, they weren't necessarily at the
top of the conference. They were quite honestly at the bottom.
And I think if you even look across Power five programs,
if you look at like the bottom third or bottom
quarter of the conference, you know your top mid major
D one schools are gonna win those games all day.
(05:00):
I mean, we came from St. Francis where we were
posting forty one seasons and we were playing fifteen twenty
Power five games a year, and we were beating those teams.
Now as we went into the regionals, that's where you
really get exploited if you don't, like you said, if
you don't have a top ten, top fifteen type pitcher
in the country, Um, it's pretty hard to win those games.
(05:23):
And we felt like we took it as far as
we could at St. Francis. But I mean, if you're playing,
let's say the top twenty five and you're one of
those people, you know, starting you gotta figure five teams.
There's you know, nine ten depending on picture hitter, picture
straight pitcher what um I mean do the math. That's
not a lot of people. So and again, like that's
(05:44):
where you asked yourself as parents, as my kid one
of the top hundred and twenty five players in the country,
and that's where you you've got to be real with that.
Goals are one thing, but they have to be somewhat tangible.
You know, if your kid is having problems starting in
high school, then I think that you've got to be
a realistic Well, are they going to be a starter
on the top twenty five team? Probably not? So tell
(06:06):
me this. I hear this a lot, and then we'll
kind of shift gears here. But and I mean I
hear it, I hear it a lot. Coach my ten
year olds getting recruited already, you know, my eight year
old they're getting looks, and I'm going, what, like what
that's what it's turned into, Like come on, are you
And I'm not. I know it's funny to laugh at,
but a lot of times these individual rankings, you know,
and I'm gonna want to pick on any companies or anything,
I get it, but these individual rankings like seven, eight, nine,
(06:29):
I'm the best eight year old in the country or
top ten. Our college coaches out recruiting little league games,
are they talking to you know, are they going to
machine pitch games to scout talent? I absolutely am not
and will not ever do that. Um, you know, I
think like in my sixteen years of coaching, there's probably
been like two or three times where you know, our
(06:49):
camps generally were like eighth grade to twelve, and um,
you'd have a six or seventh grader that would come
in and that you would just be like, she's just athletic,
She's just God blessed her with athletic genes. And there
were times where that seventh grader was had a prettier
sling than the tenth and eleventh graders. So I mean,
obviously you try and keep getting them to come to
camp because you don't know that kid might have peaks
(07:11):
right there, but you know she might eventually be really good.
So that's like the only time that I'm ever looking
at kids that young, and that's just because they're on
my campus for camp and it's fun to see. You know,
the majority of kids, you know aren't that great at
that age, so when you have somebody that is, it's
just fun to interact with them and see them. But no,
(07:32):
I mean, unfortunately, you know, the last two or three years, UM,
a lot of the rules that have come out within
softball specifically, UM, I don't agree with because I like
to build relationships with kids and with families. And so
for me now, trying to build a program that was
at the bottom of the A C C and trying
to get it to a top twenty five program with
(07:53):
recruiting only being Saturdays and Sundays and for a couple
of weeks in the fall, and and now we can't
talk to them and you know, until their junior year,
and UM, where we could do it before if they
were on campus, things like that to let them know
we were interested in recruiting now it's to the point
where I can't build those relationships with kids anymore. But
I wasn't one of the people out recruiting fix six
(08:15):
seventh graders, and so unfortunately, I think a lot of
those rules were made because of the four or five
programs that might have been doing that. But at the
end of the day, if I can tell you, like,
it's not happening here, it's not happening with my kids,
and and to be honest, you know, it shouldn't be
happening anywhere because kids have to be kids, Like, that's
a huge chunk of your life that you won't get back,
(08:37):
and parents need to realize that at the time, and
kids aren't going to realize that at the time. And
it's just you've gotta as a parent and speaking as one,
you cannot live through your kids. And I see that
a lot. You know, Um, it's awesome to have kids.
If you have them that they're that talented, that young,
that's amazing, And like I said, God gifted them with that,
(09:00):
and hopefully they go on to use that that. You
have got to stay humble, and you've got to stay grounded,
and your first and foremost is to be mom. Or
be dad and raise that child. Um. And then as
they get older and get to that point in their
life when they're in high school and think about those things.
But I I see it a lot where it's parents
(09:20):
living through kids, and that's just you know, it's a
hard conversation for someone to have, but somebody needs to
have that with those parents. Um. But it's not going
to be me. You know, it's easy to get sucked
into it. There was a ton though, I I would
say it's probably about a year or so, maybe two
years where I was like, I don't want to say
living through my kid, but I had those car rides,
(09:41):
you know, where I'm in my kids in the back
seat and I'm breaking down his at bats when he's
eight years old, you know, seven years old, and he's
trying to eat an Italian ice or a hot dog
and I'm there. You know, I remember one time breaks
my heart. I told him I was disappointed at him
because he made an error and maybe struck out. And
now I look back and I'm like, God, what an
idiot I was. You know, like all think its supposed
to do as you tell them, you love them, you
love to watch them play. It's so much fun to
(10:03):
watch them, no matter how they perform. And I think
it comes back to there's too much focus, I believe,
and I would love you to go into this little
bit on short term performance versus you know, long term development.
How important is it to focus on the development of
the human being as opposed to just well, you were
all for three today, or you swim the fastest time,
or you've got two goals performance versus development. Well, to
(10:24):
be honest, I think that if you are two in
the moment with performance, you won't even have a chance
for development because that kid is going to want to quit.
And so if you want them to develop and continue
to love it and want to say, hey let's go
play catch in the backyard, or hey let's go hit
a little bit, you have got to control yourself when
(10:48):
it comes to performance in the moment. And I know
for me it was really hard for me. I'm not
a natural athlete. It's funny, like I say, if you
put me on any other court or field or um
bowling alley, anything like that, you would never believe I
was a Division one coach. Ever, I was a dancer
and a cheerleader in my whole life. But softball I
(11:09):
loved and I wanted to be really good at it.
It didn't come naturally to me, and I had to work.
So for me, when I look at my kids, Um,
you know, my oldest one is a lot like me,
and I wanted so bad to come I wanted for
her to come easy, and it doesn't only because I
know how how hard I had to work even to
get okay at the sport. And so for me, I
(11:32):
find myself being like frustrated that gosh, like I just
wish I would have gave her better jeans, you know,
I wish it just came easier to her something like that.
So I just have to constantly tell myself, like, let
her have fun. She's got to have fun, or she's
never gonna want to pick up that ball and pick
up that bat. And so, you know, it's it's one
of those things where there won't be development in the
(11:53):
future because that kid will walk away. I've seen it
so many times. I've seen it as I was growing
up with my my friends and kids i've played with,
and I see it every year on the recruiting trail,
and most times it's it's a stud. It's a stud
that walks away because they've been pushed too hard for
so long that there is no enjoyment out of it.
So that's where I think you've got to enjoy the
(12:16):
day to day and if they go over three, you've
got to find a way to find a positive in it.
Like you've busted so hard out of the box on
that one, you know, And I'm not wanting to give
like false praises and things like that, but again, if
you're dealing with the sticks seven year old, you absolutely
have to do that. Like you want to get them excited,
and they're just trying to please mom and dad at
(12:37):
that point, right or wrong. So if they get excited
and you get excited, that's what it's about. And then
if you can continue that relationship as you get older
and they get older, then you have the chance to
develop when their body can physically do that. That's Jennifer
Patrick Swift, head softball coach and see State Wolfpack when
we come back. Coach Patrick Swift and I will discuss adversity,
(12:59):
how dad and metrics affect you sports, and her advice
for those hoping to be recruited by the wolf Fact.
Welcome back to the Reform Sports Project podcast dom Nick Bonacourt,
and today we have Jennifer Patrick Swift, head coach of
(13:19):
the n C State softball team. Where we left off,
Jennifer and I were about to dive into the effects
adversity has on developing athletes, how and when coaches should
utilize data and measurement tools, and what she looks for
in new recruits. One thing that comes up a lot
is adversity, right, and you hear it all the time.
(13:40):
I remember when I was coaching people who never played
the game, like, why is my kid in the outfield?
And I'm sitting here going what I couldn't understand that
at first, Like what do you mean your kids in that?
What does that mean is that? What do you think
it's a downgrade? Like I don't understand. Number one, I
don't want to put everyone in the infield, because at
those ages some kids can get hurt. But what ends
up happening is if you've got two fairly good athletes
who want to play shorts up a dad will or
mom whatever, We'll take their kid off their team and
(14:01):
they'll start their own. And you hear it all the time.
Let's create the path for our kids instead of getting
our kid ready for the path from your experience, and
we're talking about a little bit older here and getting
into middle school and high school. How important is it
for us as parents to let our kids fail and
to face adversity and learn how to overcome it. It's
extremely important. I got about half my doctorate done in
psychology because after I got my other degrees, I wanted
(14:24):
to be able to most importantly help the mental side
of my athletes, help them reach their potential as individuals,
so that collectively our team could reach our highest potential.
But within that, there were so many things that I've
taken that I now apply in recruiting, and a lot
of that is I'm going to be diving into that
(14:45):
recruits path. Tell me where did you play for how long?
What positions did you play when you started playing? You know?
And if there is a you know, I've played on
this team in this team where I'm recruiting a kid
in ninth grade and by the time they're a junior,
they've play on three different teams. And again there's exceptions
here and there. Um, it's not a hard fast statement,
(15:06):
but there's there's a reason for that. One is that
the parents, too is it the kids. I try and
do a good job of getting to know the kids
because sometimes you have parents that are a little bit
more involved maybe than they should be. Will say that word,
how important is it for the kids to speak for themselves?
Is that what you're talking about? Well, I mean just
(15:26):
involved with everything. Maybe the kid didn't want to leave
the team, but the parents did. The parents wanted them
to have, like you said, to create that path. And
so like there are times where you know, parents have
one personality and the kid is completely different. Those someones
are few and far between, because most of the time
that apple doesn't fall far from the tree. So again,
(15:47):
like when I'm recruiting, obviously people are like, what do
you always look for? Number One, You've got to be
able to play. People don't talk about that either, Like
you can be a great person, you know, and we
look for that too, great person, great teammate. But at
the end of the day, I'm trying to get to
Oaklandhoma City and win a national championship. You've got to
be able to play, but too, you have to be
(16:08):
a good person, you have to be a good teammate
and all of those things too. But that path to
how you got, where you are is going to determine
where are you going to go? Like, where are you going?
Are you done going there? Are you going to go further?
When you're away from your parents or your parents going
to almost hold you back because it's a continual problem
(16:29):
with involvement. You know, tell me this. You know there's
a data heavy component. Now it's a baseball and softball
and other sports, and I'm learning a lot more about them.
You know, your spin rates, your your exit velos, your
your launch angles and all that, and I get the
purpose for those things. How important though, is that at
the youth level I'm talking twelve you, I think the
most important thing is for the coaches that are coaching
(16:51):
those teams to know what the heck they're talking about.
And I don't think there should be sensors on bats.
I don't think there should be sensors on balls when
you're talking about twelve under ten under like those are developments.
Those coaches just need to make sure that can this
hitter move properly as in, you know, can they hit
a ball and drive through a ball and you know,
(17:12):
have a decent swing, and can they filled the ball
out in front and move with the right footsteps and
you know, throw the ball and play catch like that
is the level where that needs to happen. It's you're right,
this is trickling down. The data is amazing. I use
it every day in my job. But that shouldn't be
happening at those levels. And as that it comes down
(17:34):
and the amazing science and technology behind what we have
at our level continues to grow. I already see it
taking away from just teach them how to play catch,
teach them how to make contact, from how to hit
a ball, you know, like if as a coach, if
I'm a twelve you coach, and I love that stuff
and that's my passion, that's my hobby for me to
(17:55):
learn in the background, and that's honestly what I do
and how I use it. I'm dealing with, you know,
really good athletes. But most of the technology I'm using
behind the scenes, I'm analyzing, I'm interpreting that data and
then I'm just saying, you know, going out to one
of the players and saying, hey, we need to swing
the bat a little bit faster today, we need to
get after it more. I want you to try and
(18:16):
run it out a little bit more knowing that the
last three or four days, you know that their exit
VLO has been down, But I'm not going to go
up to them and say that right away, you know.
So I just think that, especially at that level, I
don't think there needs to be any part of it
at that level, because again, if you're doing it at
that level, it's because you're trying to get a number,
probably to push the kid, to try and recruit a kid.
(18:37):
So that shouldn't be happening in my opinion either. So
none of that matters. All that manags is can they
hit a ball? Can they play catch? You know, let's
focus on that and let the minute detailed development get
get to the point where one, if that's where your
kid wants to go and that down that path, they
can do that maybe on their own if they want
(18:57):
to specialize when they get in high school and since things,
and obviously in college too, but they're not ready for
them minute details like and and and it's just too
overwhelming for them mentally as well. Let's pretend there's one
young ladies softball players that are freshman in high school
sophomores asked to want to come play for the wolf
Pack thirty second piece of advice you'd give them. The
big thing is keep your grads up. Um, work hard,
(19:21):
and work hard because you want to, not because you
have to. And challenge yourself every day when you get up,
when you think, I get to go to school, I
get to go to practice, I get to go play today. Um,
you don't have to do any of that stuff. You
know you're blessed to be able to do that, and
the challenge needs to be what do you want to
do with that? Do you want to play at the
(19:42):
highest level? And then where is your skill set? Comparatively speaking,
if you want to play college softball, you can find
a place for you and what does that look like?
And if it's not at NC State in the wolf Pack,
we'll be honest with you. But we also have a
lot of contacts at all levels where you know, I
might send you to, Hey, checkout Methodist. It's a great program.
(20:03):
It's the same coach there, um you know, And it's
one of those things where is sometimes it's tough, you
got to be real, but at the same time, I
would rather see a player player for four years and
we have a great experience. If it's not an NC
State to do it somewhere then for them to come
and sit the bench at NC State just because their
talent level isn't quite where it needs to be for us.
(20:25):
That's Jennifer Patrick, Swift, head softball coach at NC State University.
Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Project podcast. I'm
Nick Bonecourt and our goal is to restore a healthy
balance and perspective in all areas of sport through education
and advocacy. For updates, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram, or check out our website by searching for
(20:47):
the Reform Sports Project
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